Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Despite being shown in promotional images last year, the Lady Élisse Duchaard components are all dated 2024. Every other new Bretonnian release has, to my recollection, been dated 2023.

A kit designed in 2023 would usually be dated 2023, so I think it has to presumed the kit has been modified more recently.

Production problems could certainly explain that.

That's a shame; she's definitely one of the outstanding releases of the range thus far, great sculpt.

Any chance the master for her was traditionally sculpted, so they’re having trouble parting her out for mould pieces? I remember old metal models used to suffer from that a lot.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Any chance the master for her was traditionally sculpted, so they’re having trouble parting her out for mould pieces? I remember old metal models used to suffer from that a lot.

I thought GW was fully 3D designed now. At least for plastics they are, FW could still be using some traditional sculpting, but I'd doubt it. I'd figure GW would want everything done digital today as just part of their normal product workflow.

that would be the problem here, if you use a design optimized for HIPS casting to make a model in classic resin casting, of course it would not work well
and as this one was one of the first more complex new models, they may not have thought about that first

not the first time the 3D printed master shown in promo pictures being different from the production model because they needed to adjust the sculpts (and I guess the designer themself does not know the casting process used when working on the model)

Thing is I'd have thought a model designed for plastics would print more easily with resin than the other way around. Resin can allow undercuts that HIPS can't do at all. So if anything if it were designed for plastic, or by a staffer used too plastics, then it should be easier to print.

Yes and no, if it is a 1 piece model, it would be that way.
But as GW makes puzzles out of their plastic models which is not possible that way with resin were you have less and larger parts and/or cannot split the model up in a certain way as glueing resin together is not as easy as plastic

the other problem is if you want to re-use the mould or not. destroying the silicone to remove the model makes other shapes possible but also increases the costs by a lot

 Overread wrote:
Thing is I'd have thought a model designed for plastics would print more easily with resin than the other way around. Resin can allow undercuts that HIPS can't do at all. So if anything if it were designed for plastic, or by a staffer used too plastics, then it should be easier to print.

That doesn't necessarily follow. Models designed for plastic are, more specifically, designed to be cut up into pieces that can be assembled into a frame layout, and it's the frame layout which needs to work well in terms of moulding. The same model will be cut up very differently if ultimately manufactured using some other process, like resin casting. So, no, a model designed for plastic won't necessarily produce a better 3D print, or be better suited to resin casting. The former depends on factors unique to 3D printing; the latter depends on the pieces into which it is cut up, and how easily mouldable and castable they are. If this particular model is proving difficult to cast reliably, that's unlucky but can happen occasionally – it doesn't indicate anything in particular about how it was designed (other than that issues with moulding it were not able to be corrected at that late stage).

Being a digital sculpt that ends up being a mould-ripper actually tracks pretty well. If the sculptor isn't used to backfilling for resin or metal moulds, there are all sorts of fun little 'fingers' that get made in the mesh where the robe doesn't quite meet the body or there is a gap between the bracer and the forearm. The amount of bootleg Star Wars Legion stls I have fixed for friends is a testament to that. In particular there was a Darth Maul that essentially had a candy shell for knees and lower legs because that area was mostly void. If you actually got a cast of that and then tried to lay it up in a mould for resin, the vacuum or pressure would for sure fill all those fingers and voids and you'd have all kinds of mould rips. You would think that once a master was made, the mould rips would solve themselves and whoever was making the masters would see the rips and backfill those areas, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are printing a new master each time they make a new production mould.

I will say this:

Lady Élisse Duchaard is every bit as beautiful a mini as it looked to be in the previews. And it's less fragile with fewer really delicate parts than many Forgeworld resin minis I've built.

But it takes work. And it really is an "expert" kit.

You can't just file off the mould lines and casting gates, there are areas where you almost have to carve or sculpt replacement detail because the casting gates have obliterated it.

My Stone Trolls arrived today. That was quick. (Ordered after lunch on Saturday.)

For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I was surprised to find that the trolls in Set 2 are single-piece minis. I had assumed the heads were separate from the bodies, like Set 1, but apparently not.

I checked my old 90s catalogue and it seems legit--the only ones actually shown to have separate heads were the three sculpts in Set 1.

I'm not bothered at all (in fact it will save me some assembly work). But it's worth keeping in mind if you're planning to put River Troll heads on Stone Troll bodies for a classic Chaos Troll conversion. It would be pretty annoying to wait months for your MTO to arrive only to find that you bought the wrong set of Stone Trolls and now have to hack the heads off ...

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
I will say this:

Lady Élisse Duchaard is every bit as beautiful a mini as it looked to be in the previews. And it's less fragile with fewer really delicate parts than many Forgeworld resin minis I've built.

But it takes work. And it really is an "expert" kit.

You can't just file off the mould lines and casting gates, there are areas where you almost have to carve or sculpt replacement detail because the casting gates have obliterated it.

It is an amazing model. Possibly my favourite sculpt ever. I have to agree though, it's very much an expert model to put together. I also had to almost resculpt some parts after removing the excess materials.
In the end i didn't have much problems with gaps. The one thing that was difficult on that front were the two tail parts. There was a small gap between the two parts, but after painting it it is hardly noticeable.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
My Troll Hag had a bit of blue silicone on it, but the cast was excellent.

But the ones coming out of that mold after yours won't be

I see your point Black Fang, anyone who gets a little extra junk on the trunk of their Troll Hag has my own Hag to blame 😁

@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

 Bonegrinder wrote:
I see your point Black Fang, anyone who gets a little extra junk on the trunk of their Troll Hag has my own Hag to blame 😁

@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

Define 'amature'? You do need some amount of patience.The model is small so it is a bit fiddly. It's not for people who aren't prepared or able to take some time and to stop and think about the construction.
Other than that I would say it's very doable because for all it's faults, i find (Forgeworld)resin a very forgiving material when it comes to reshaping it, like hollowing out bits with excess material.

My golden standard against which i hold every model construction process I've done on GW kits is the old Finecast Mangler Squigs; for my money that is far and away the worst model that GW has ever produced and a rutted nightmare to construct well and keep upright. This doesn't come anywhere near that, at least as far as my particular model was concerned. The quality of resin kits tends to very greatly of course, so can only speak for my own kit.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

Has anyone tried to make a complaint about this? If GW were to send a replacement in those cases, that could be a fine compromise.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

Now that i think about it, the worst part of the model was that there was a bit bit of excess resin stretched along the cup in her hand. It was quite difficult te remove and as a result a but from the top of the cup broke of with the excess bit. That was a bit frustrating. As was the tail. Overall though it really isn't that bad. As RtB said, not really difficult at all. Don't let it be a deterrent to buy the model!

Honestly, I'm not sure replacements would be any better.

I really do think this is a problem with the design of this particular mini, and the only thing that could make it better is a redesign.

Is anyone aware of GW redesigning a mini *after* it has been released?

Maybe not really what you're thinking of and definitely not soon after release, but they did release new versions of old (2001-2003) FW Tau aircraft (Tiger Shark and Barracudea) around 2016, and they released a new version of the infamously huge Imperial Fists Tartaros Praetor in the last year or two.

Probably instances of lost/severely damaged molds.

Considering chaos dwarves will probably look as different from their fantasy version as the normal dwarves do now in old world -_- I'm going to wait for either ratmen, lizardmen or beastmen for whatever army I'm going to focus on.

I'm done hoping for reliving the good old days.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:
Honestly, I'm not sure replacements would be any better.

I really do think this is a problem with the design of this particular mini, and the only thing that could make it better is a redesign.

Is anyone aware of GW redesigning a mini *after* it has been released?

The great beast of gorgoroth was redesigned after release as the beast itself just wouldn't fit together properly after the original release.

 Return_to_Bretonnia wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
@JWh85 & RtB Do you think the resculpting was complex, or could a amature handle it?

It's not complex, at least not to me. But it's frustrating because it shouldn't really be necessary. I feel like they've had problems getting the moulds to fill reliably (it can happen whether you're a tiny boutique company or a huge PLC), so they've been forced to put sprues and vents in places which really aren't ideal.

As JWh85 noted, there are parts like the tail which are a real pain to clean up and get to fit properly. The chances of removing the sprues from the tail pieces without needing to resculpt some of the tail hair is... not good.

They need to hand it over to whoever has been parting out the newer Blood Bowl star players for resin, because they have all been fantastic to put together without sacrificing detail…

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:The great beast of gorgoroth was redesigned after release as the beast itself just wouldn't fit together properly after the original release.

Thanks, that is a really good example and sounds like it had a similar problem.

Mr_Rose wrote:They need to hand it over to whoever has been parting out the newer Blood Bowl star players for resin, because they have all been fantastic to put together without sacrificing detail…

I have two of the new resin Handmaidens, two of the resin Questing Knight Paladin, and also the two resin Standard Bearers. All are fantastic. Easy to clean up, good fit, etc. Brilliant minis. Maybe I was spoiled by how easy those are to put together, because Lady Élisse is just... not the same.

 Bonegrinder wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Holy smokes, I just got a dispatch notice for my MTO Orcs & Goblins. I wasn't expecting to receive anything till the end of the year.

GW normally estimates something around 3 months for MTO - end of year would be shockingly bad.

Any MTO I've order have always stated 180 days, no later. So around 6 months or end of October/beginning of November.

That's not same as what gw neccessarily estimates but more of worst case. If you don't know how long it might take better give late and have "got sooner than expected" than reverse

Havent heard many times 6 months actually taking but few. Imagine how they would feel if they had said 90 days...

Zenithfleet wrote:


For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I'm still waiting to receive mine. I ordered min on Monday so day 3 of the made to order window and it's been more than 3 months. I've only ordered 2 items via made to order and both have taken 4+ months to arrive. I ordered Rogue Trader 10 minutes after it went online for sale and it still took just over 4 months. I don't have the luck to get stuff quickly and I think the US gets their items after the U.K. Just because it's easier to produce and ship things locally.

boyd wrote:

Zenithfleet wrote:


For comparison, in the Bretonnian MTO I didn't place my order until the last few days of the window, and it took two months to arrive.

I'm still waiting to receive mine. I ordered min on Monday so day 3 of the made to order window and it's been more than 3 months. I've only ordered 2 items via made to order and both have taken 4+ months to arrive. I ordered Rogue Trader 10 minutes after it went online for sale and it still took just over 4 months. I don't have the luck to get stuff quickly and I think the US gets their items after the U.K. Just because it's easier to produce and ship things locally.

Made to Order for printed items (books, the Cursed City expansion) I think are inevitably going to take longer – almost certainly what they do is wait until the MTO closes, then order a print run of the required size. With the miniature MTOs, it's obvious they have some stock ready to go at the start, so some orders are filled immediately while the others get filled gradually over the next few weeks and months.

How did you lucky fellows guys manage to purchase Elise Duchaard?

I'd sure like one, but since buying from GW isn't "the hobby" for me I haven't been able to purchase any of the things I wanted to.

They didn't forget the GW pre-order time and got there before they all vanished

Yeah. In the UK the pre-order window officially opens at 10:00am, but usually the new minis are actually up on the website by 9:55am.

I had Elisse ordered by 9:57am.

It's that simple. Be there early and order quickly.