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Shoosh now garret. The grown-ups are talking.

but im serious. if they want money so much they would switch to another product.
With this move there going to destroy there business.
if they isolate ther loyalists there going to destroy there games.
Even if bed wetters are there main source of income whos going to teach them if there are no hobbyiest.
Btw can we use bed wtters as an official term for younglings?

taebeck wrote:Next time try reading comprehension. I said GW wanted to put independents out of the GW business.

Why be civil when you can be an abrasive pormwrangler instead? Why should any of us care about what you're saying if you can't be bothered not to insult the intelligence of the people you're responding to?

Agamemnon2 wrote:

taebeck wrote:Next time try reading comprehension. I said GW wanted to put independents out of the GW business.

Why be civil when you can be an abrasive pormwrangler instead? Why should any of us care about what you're saying if you can't be bothered not to insult the intelligence of the people you're responding to?

Why do you even bother getting your butt out of bed?

I haven't read all of the post but just wanted to chime in.....


I'm an ex GW employee and this is a big reason why. There's been talk for some time about making the shift and they finally have started to really implement it. The regular stores are to simply get people into the game(this is what new employee's are taught)and get them to spend money

The Bunkers and LGS are where actual gaming is suppose to happen. NOT at the regular GW stores

Vladsimpaler wrote:Why do you even bother getting your butt out of bed?

Spite.

Daggermaw wrote:We (the dedicated gamers) are getting pushed aside for the kids and people that accidentally walk into a GW thinking it sells video games

This is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've read. "Hello, Games Workshop? You got Modern Combat 2? What the hell, you guys suck, you never have anything in stock"

It's only more funny when there's a GAME or EB next door, like my local GW.

livingregret wrote:I haven't read all of the post but just wanted to chime in.....


I'm an ex GW employee and this is a big reason why. There's been talk for some time about making the shift and they finally have started to really implement it. The regular stores are to simply get people into the game(this is what new employee's are taught)and get them to spend money

The Bunkers and LGS are where actual gaming is suppose to happen. NOT at the regular GW stores

I just opened a 25 table Bunker next to my store in a Mall, with a huge amount of support from GW, and now that I think about it, they have been having their three local stores push some customers up to us for the tournaments we are running. So in some ways, this actually fits.

But many of their stores still have a good amount of tables in them, and I know that in store gaming makes a store more money than empty tables, so I still can't see them going all the way to a model with no in store gaming. Guess we'll see either way in the coming couple of years.


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I'm thinking it might be a win/win in some ways. They don't have the cost of staffing a bunker in Philly, and I'll be selling a lot more models.

Tyranids have been insane the last week.

malfred wrote:So the basic thing is you're arguing this will results in one time sales and not regular customers?

But as soon as they become regular customers, they're vets and thus need to be kicked out

Our local store has done this for quite some time now and it isn't a major problem. It's a pretty small store in a busy mall (Bullring, Birmingham).

When I go in to chat with the guys there, if it's a quiet day, as it usually is, they'll chat for hours about whatever, but the instant somebody new comes into the store, they'll excuse themselves and go to talk to them, sometimes coming right back, other times getting involved and chatting.

There's only 3 gaming tables and all are set up for introductory games, if you book in advance they're cool with games, but just turning up to game is only allowed it's quiet.

I really don't think any of the above will impact GW, it's there, it's not perfect, but it works for them mostly, and the guys who work in the stores are gamers, they want to teach new players and also talk to equally experienced gamers, discuss painting, gaming and such with people who don't have snot hanging from their noses


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Ouze wrote:

Daggermaw wrote:We (the dedicated gamers) are getting pushed aside for the kids and people that accidentally walk into a GW thinking it sells video games

This is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've read. "Hello, Games Workshop? You got Modern Combat 2? What the hell, you guys suck, you never have anything in stock"

My favourite was when an old man came in and asked if they did scaled replicas of the Mary Celeste. I directed him to a hobby shop down the street as being more likely to stock them.

And you hear them on the phone all the time explaining that they don't stock computer games, it's hilarious that people don't even consider what the name might mean.

GW is a business with shareholders who want to make more money, if they think this will do that it will go ahead until it proves otherwise...

I do think they should lose the Workshop part of the name if this does happen though as surely thats breaking trade desription...?

Mick

I said GW wanted to put independents out of the GW business.

In most of the US, GW's potentially largest single market, most areas still have no GW stores and GW's sales in most of the US therefore come through independent retailers. Additionally, there's a whole department of people at GW US HQ devoted to talking independent retailers into carrying as much GW product as possible. Therefore, the idea that GW wants independent retailers to stop selling GW product is not plausible.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Why do you even bother getting your butt out of bed?

I'm the bad guy? Out of all the nerfherders and crodpronkers on this thread, I'm supposedly the biggest waste of time? I am honored and bemused.

BishopGore wrote:And you hear them on the phone all the time explaining that they don't stock computer games, it's hilarious that people don't even consider what the name might mean.

That sounds like a logical mistake to make. Video game stores have names like Gameshack, Game-o-rama and Gamestop. Assuming Games Workshop is just more of the same isn't that far off. The strangest thing I met at the GW was an elderly gentleman who'd done his life's work in injection moulding, and was curious about the technical aspects of GW models.

BishopGore wrote:Our local store has done this for quite some time now and it isn't a major problem. It's a pretty small store in a busy mall (Bullring, Birmingham).

When I go in to chat with the guys there, if it's a quiet day, as it usually is, they'll chat for hours about whatever, but the instant somebody new comes into the store, they'll excuse themselves and go to talk to them, sometimes coming right back, other times getting involved and chatting.

There's only 3 gaming tables and all are set up for introductory games, if you book in advance they're cool with games, but just turning up to game is only allowed it's quiet.

I really don't think any of the above will impact GW, it's there, it's not perfect, but it works for them mostly, and the guys who work in the stores are gamers, they want to teach new players and also talk to equally experienced gamers, discuss painting, gaming and such with people who don't have snot hanging from their noses


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Ouze wrote:

Daggermaw wrote:We (the dedicated gamers) are getting pushed aside for the kids and people that accidentally walk into a GW thinking it sells video games

This is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've read. "Hello, Games Workshop? You got Modern Combat 2? What the hell, you guys suck, you never have anything in stock"

My favourite was when an old man came in and asked if they did scaled replicas of the Mary Celeste. I directed him to a hobby shop down the street as being more likely to stock them.

And you hear them on the phone all the time explaining that they don't stock computer games, it's hilarious that people don't even consider what the name might mean.

I wonder if anyone stocks a scale model of the crew of the Marie Celeste.

Jeez, I'd feel really weird about this if all the GWs in MA hadn't already closed down. I only started playing a few months ago, but my LGS has a lot of players so I could care less either way.

You have to keep in mind that they have a point in that people who have been playing a while don't spend as much money. Take Vintage or Legacy magic players: they're a crappy market because they never buy new product. Granted, most of the 40k players I know are constantly buying and painting new armies, but judging from the attitudes of a lot of people I see here, there's a pretty big crowd of people who complain about GW at every turn, and brag about not giving them any money. Is it any surprise GW is abandoning people who don't give them money?

And unfortunately, since they're a public company they're legally constrained to increasing shareholder value as much as possible. If some dick investor comes to the conclusion that GW hasn't tapped a good market, they could get minority shareholders together for a suit and possibly run GW into the ground, which would ruin it for everyone.

Shifting focus to new players is this manner in would screw a lot of veterans with nowhere else to play, but it would ultimately be better for the game in the long run.

Looking at the changes listed in the OP, GW stores are going to become less nice of a place to be. Part of waht i liked about my FLGS, was the F of it, friendly. Looking at theese changes it's going to become more serious and less jokey, no atmosphere. the fact that pick me up games would be disallowed makes me unhappy. I hope it doesnt happen.

On a note for them, i think they will lose money with these changes, for two reasons.
1) And i have done this, you often walk into a FLGS and think "right i'm going to buy a howling banshee squad and a new paintbrush" so you walk in and perhaps a character model catches your eye and you think "oh i may as well get this, its only a couple of quid" (i often do this with eldar jetbikes). But since they'll become less nice more people will order online and the chances are you wont be as tempted to buy something else.
2)I also think that people will lose some respect for GW, as all the friendlyness willl be gone, and people may use sites like wayland games etc. more often.

I haven't read most of this thread, but I feel like imposing my entirely uneducated and unnecessary opinion onto this thread because this is the internet and that's what the internet is for.

When I first read OP's comments, I thought it was a troll/joke/whatever because all of the claims are just exaggerations of things that GW is currently accused of all the time (ignoring vets, only caring about kids, quick turnover, general dickery, etc.), but there may be some legitimacy to it. I don't know.

If this is true, I don't see it going well for GW (at least in the US). From what I understand, in Europe and Australia (I don't know much about the rest of the world), gaming typically takes place at independent gaming clubs and stores are primarily just for buying minis. That isn't the case in the US, and the Warhammer hobby is sustained, in no small part, by GW stores and the FLGS. Removing GW stores will remove the actual game from a lot of players, as well as doing little to attract new kids; let's face it, a store full of people enjoying a game will make most impressionable young children more likely to want to play.

I see this hurting GW's retail chain. Granted, I hate GW stores, so I wouldn't mind seeing them die, but I think GW retail will definitely not profit from this course of action (if it's true).

Fullheadofhair,


You can certainly side with Mikhaila. I am glad he had a great experience with his Rep in ’88. That was a time when GW was a pleasure to work with. They were hungry for new outlets in the states. Their prices at the time were right in line with all the other mini companies like Ral Partha and Grenidier. Target games had not come along yet, so they had not felt any real pressure from any direct competitors. If you had an issue with stock or product, they were more than willing to help. You could order as much or as little as you liked and they were just happy you were selling their product. They didn’t dictate how you merchandised it in your store.

The GW issues I am detailing started late 90’s/ early 00’s. They started seeing direct competition from companies like Target Games and FASA. (Warzone, Chronopia and Vor for those of you that were not around) They started ramping up their online store and were concerned that their revenue was being hurt by Independent retailers selling online at a discounted price. If they found out you were selling online, at a discounted price, GW would either cut the discount % you were receiving or simply refuse to sell to you. If you wanted to start carrying Games Workshop during this period, you were required to lay out a significant amount of cash, arrange your GW area a certain way, with a certain number of blisters, comprised of the codes that they deemed top sellers. I am not sure why they always deemed things like Gorkamorka and Frateris Militia “Top Codes.” If you had a problem with your order or defective product, they acted like they didn’t believe you. I am fairly certain that more than one person has had Games Workshop require that a tiny miscast part be shipped back. Treatment like this is not good business and in no way encourages business to market or carry your product.

Agamemnon2,

I was perfectly civil up to the point when someone implied that I was incompetent and that I have not seen and heard what I have seen and heard. Bases on your own responses, I suspect that when someone comes at you in a condescending way, you will be less than jolly as well.

BrassScorpion,

In case I was unclear, this model was most obvious in areas where a retail store was in direct competition with a GW store. I only have direct knowledge of events in Houston and North Texas, but based on previous conversations with gamers and store owners from other parts of the country, I am of the opinion that it was wide spread.


To be clear, I like GW games. I still collect, paint and play GW games to this day. They had cleaned up their act once the actions I have described above drove their stock prices and image into the ground.

My original comment still stands, GW has had periods in the past when their business model drove customers away and I would not be surprised if they had periods of the same kind again.

taebeck wrote:I was perfectly civil up to the point when someone implied that I was incompetent and that I have not seen and heard what I have seen and heard. Bases on your own responses, I suspect that when someone comes at you in a condescending way, you will be less than jolly as well.

I should hope people aspire to be better than I.

This all just seems like another run-of-the-mill anti GW screed. If I weren't so immersed in the "culture" of tabletop gaming, I suppose I'd be put off by the idea of walking into a store full of overweight, bearded shut-ins. I'd also like to point out that on a particularly busy day my LGS generally smells like a monkey house. Maybe GW thinks this is hurting the inflow of new clientele.

I do have to ask though...

WTF is a pormwrangler?

I have a mixed feeling about this if its true.....

I understand the need for new blood and the need to keep leeches like myself out of the store =) Yep I'd go there to play only becasue a place 5 min away sells GWS at 20% off...

I spoke to the manager told him I appreciated his store and all the work he did, and if he could even give me a 10% discount I'd buy more from him but GWS ties his hands.

Now the GWS's are closed and its up to LGS s and gaming clubs (shame less plug www.mi40k.com) to carry the load.

I think the area will miss the new people the GWS's could bring to the hobby, and if they wanted to make a store solely for the purpose of bringing in new gamers I wouldnt have a problem with it.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:n0t_u

saying what I said, but with graphs!!

If I could ask GW senior management one question, it would be 'Why do you think fewer customers are a good thing?'

P.S. If the rationale for this is so that parents won't be put off buying stuff for little Johnny by having geeky looking kids in store, then someone needs to batter the side of GW execs head with a large soggy pike (the fish or the weapon, makes no difference ) while explaining that toy soldiers will never be cool, so there's no need to try!!

Who nows if toy soldiers are going to be "cool" or not? We all hope in your last message, we would think so to. Lots of kids(in the city area) Think that doing Drugs and Smoking earns you some kind of Badge in life or something.(and it doesnt) To me Fights and being in Wars(real ones) count . Im not going to talk and bash on kids who have no where else to go. Ive been up to a college and it was an independ store of hoppy i was at and it was nice, matching up to a GW and every type of person was there. "cool" or not which if people want a estimation it 2/10 that were not cool.

This is awful and doesn't even make since if it's true. I just started 40k and without playing in store I would only have ONE opponent to play once I finally build up my first army. If this is true than it will be sad to see the outcome for Gamesworkshop. To me it sounds like, if it's true, the store will go from a great social experience to a hollow post-office like center of business. If I spend that much money on expensive metal Sister of Battle models I expect to be able to have good opportunities to use them.

I for one would be very dissappointed if GW instituted a no hobbying in store business model. That is really what got me interested. I saw people able to use the store as a base for their hobby, made the hobby have a more friendly appeal to it. Also they already seem to focus on new gamers pretty well. But I have to say when I finally built up the required cash base to begin the hobby the red shirt that was helping me could have taken more advantage. I told him to set me up with an army, and all he did was set me up with the cumpulsory requirements, I probably would have dumped in another $300 if he started telling me what i should buy. also I did notice that it was hard to garner their attention when a game was going on. But it is a 2 hr trip to the nearest GW for me so I have only been twice, I use a very accomadating IR. But to be honest I think the only thing they need to do is be more helpful than asking "Need help finding anything", a better question would be "would you like to try a game?" or if they see someone looking through a codex that is new to ask if they would like to look at the display of the models for that particular army. Specific questions get you specific answers. Also talking about the hobby and bringing other non GW working gamers to the store is an awesome attractant for new gamers. Honestly I think any 14 year old that tries to get involved will not have the cash (unless their begging their mommy or daddy or wash dishes or something) to buy into the hobby in a meaningful way. I wouldn't have dreamed of it when I was 14, I respect anybody that had that kind of dedication at that age. The best and brightest way they could go is to increase the size of their stores with more gaming areas, making space for more experienced hobby boys and letting them do the work they do anyway. I learned from non-workers and I continue to pour money into them because of the community of gamers that keep the hobby interesting. I think it is unwise to fire your best free labor.

It seems rather obsurd to me, In Australia the hobby is a stores' lifeblood, no hobby, no new hobbyists. Kids constantly go ooh and aah and mummy, what's in there?
Down South I'm sure half of all staff would quit working for GW if this were to happen.

Monster Rain wrote:WTF is a pormwrangler?

Read And Another Thing... by Eoin Colfer.

Krellnus wrote: I'm sure half of all staff would quit working for GW if this were to happen.

Take off GWhobby from stores, fire GWhobby orientated positions, change to smaller stores and you saved a load of money... if that kills sales or not ( probably will) is another "problem"... Thinking about it, isnt that what happened to whitedwarf, GW.com, blackgobbo, specialistgames and bitz service?

Yah, they keep cutting all the things that don't exclusively make money, I get why but some things need to exist, even if run at a loss in order to support the elements of the buiisness that do make money. Shops do it all the time, they sell special items at a loss in order to get people in so they'll buy other stuff while they're there.

Mailorder in particular used to be fantastic, anyone else remember the 'Troll' MO magazine you got free if you subscribed to WD? Packed full of deals and special sets for doing conversions featured in the man mag and all done with a sense of humour, something else misisng quite a bit these days. :(

They don't need cigarettes, Garret. All they need are those ink packs they put with the money to help prevent theft. Except the ink is replaced with LSD and there is a prize in every box