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Kyutaru wrote:
Too bad Ahriman is banned in New Jersey.

lol-Wut? How did Ahriman get banned from....New Jersey? XD

 Daemon Prince wrote:
Ahriman is the only psyker in the game who can potentially throw out 3 str D blasts every turn.
Here is a cheezy strat with him I learned from some guys here on the forum:


5)Cast vortex of doom 3 times anywhere you like and wreak massive havok.
--If you have enough WC left, cast gate of infinity and get outta there.(or cast gate to get in-range of high-priority models)

Warp Charge 3 requires 6 dice to be reliable. Using sanctic daemonolgy, Ahriman perils on any doubles (including 1s, 2s, and 3s)

So, congratulations, you most likely burned out his brain on turn 1.

^That.

If Ahriman had a spell familiar, maybe. Currently, it's a great way to waste half an army.

Are you willing to run suppliments. If so Chaos Is gross in 7th edition.

Black legion Daemon Prince
Mastery 3, spell familiar, Last memory of Ytherenthos (Or whatever its called)

Congrats you now effectively have a level four psycker with casting rerolls.

Oh you want to summon even more Daemons.

Ally Crimson Slaughter.
Sorcerer Level 3, Spell familiar. Prophet of the Voices.

Yay! Your Sorcerer is daemon sorcerer. No more brain burns while summoning daemons. Oh no I rolled double ones. I have a familiar.

Want more warp charges? Bring another level 3 psycher. It will be funny.

You still won't have enough WC to pull it off. Plus all those summoners are way too expensive, especially the prince, and cant really do much else. The whole summoning snowball thing won't work for CSM.

JubbJubbz wrote:
You still won't have enough WC to pull it off. Plus all those summoners are way too expensive, especially the prince, and cant really do much else. The whole summoning snowball thing won't work for CSM.

...without an all 1k Sons legion? I'd agree here. In fact, I don't really see how CSM can pull off the Daemon Factory. Yes, our Sorcerers are great and we get Spell Familiars to help out, but it doesn't seem possible that we can put out enough cheap psykers for it to make enough of a difference without devoting nearly an entire detachment or army to the Daemon Factory. Granted, the Snowball of Tzeentch is valid, but that has more to do with Heralds, Lords of Change and Pink Horrors than anything else, and every unit mentioned generates a Warp Charge, vs CSM armies that'll only generate charges on the Sorcerer, Aspiring Sorcerer (1kSons) and Daemon Princes with Psyker Mastery.

Ceann Fine wrote:
Has anyone tried running an unmarked list yet? I'm getting a commission paint job done for some night Lords so I'm curious

it's alright, it kind of spurns a lot that is good in the codex. Some units practically require MoN to be used, others are fielded at marked reduced effectiveness without it.

but the fluff is so much better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Serg Rush wrote:

Are you willing to run suppliments. If so Chaos Is gross in 7th edition.
Black legion Daemon Prince
Mastery 3, spell familiar, Last memory of Ytherenthos (Or whatever its called)
Congrats you now effectively have a level four psycker with casting rerolls.
Oh you want to summon even more Daemons.
Ally Crimson Slaughter.
Sorcerer Level 3, Spell familiar. Prophet of the Voices.
Yay! Your Sorcerer is daemon sorcerer. No more brain burns while summoning daemons. Oh no I rolled double ones. I have a familiar.
Want more warp charges? Bring another level 3 psycher. It will be funny.

While those options are alright, I think you are vaslty overestimating how good a high level sorcerer is vs mastery level for the points and surviability.

So you have a DP with mastery 3, the thing that buffs it to 4, and possibly EW. That's 400 points more or less for a pretty weak MC that can be shot off the table. And sadly you only get 2 rolls on the rulebook powers you want, get last memory and some awful god powers.
Crimson Slaughter ML 3 with daemon thingy dude. Great an IC daemon sorc with rerolls, but can only join possessed, warptalons, mutilators, or oblits. You know what make terrible terrible bullet sponges. All of those units.

Sure you can bring more sorcerers, but you will never get the cost+duribility daemons have.

Belakor though, he is awesome, of course daemons can take him too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Daemon Prince wrote:
Ahriman is the only psyker in the game who can potentially throw out 3 str D blasts every turn.
Here is a cheezy strat with him I learned from some guys here on the forum:


5)Cast vortex of doom 3 times anywhere you like and wreak massive havok.
--If you have enough WC left, cast gate of infinity and get outta there.(or cast gate to get in-range of high-priority models)

Warp Charge 3 requires 6 dice to be reliable. Using sanctic daemonolgy, Ahriman perils on any doubles (including 1s, 2s, and 3s)

So, congratulations, you most likely burned out his brain on turn 1.

yeah, he will be lucky to cast it twice a game before he dies.

Ok ok, let me try for round 3.

Take Noise marines. 1 squad with a Blastmaster at the back(48'' range) for 125 points
This will give you a str 8 ap 3 blast that ignores cover. Shoot this at battlesuits(after troops shoot out shield drones if possible) or any t4 command squad or equivalent.

This is a pretty cheap squad that has very powerful sniping potential. I can't think anything else better at taking out space marine heavy-weapons-teams and most HQ's, not to mention battlesuits.
You also get 4 ablative wounds, and you're probably tankier than most offensive vehicles for the points when considering range.

Also, we still have Nurgle armies. But, if we're talking about our fluff winning or losing, then we probably lost. :C


If you want an army that wins objective games, take Typhus and as many Plague Zombies as points permit. Chaos can still win cheesy, competitively if you want to cheese.

Cultists are cheese now? Oh boy...

On a more serious note, competitive & chaos space marines don't go together in the same sentence. It's almost as if the lads at GW want to make the whole "Abaddon = No arms" thing actuality. They're slowly getting closer to that goal.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Cultists are cheese now? Oh boy...

On a more serious note, competitive & chaos space marines don't go together in the same sentence. It's almost as if the lads at GW want to make the whole "Abaddon = No arms" thing actuality. They're slowly getting closer to that goal.

j just don't agree with this, i think csm are very strong right now. our sorcerers with familiars, be'lakor, the helbrute dataslates, crimson slaughter book, cheap troops, resiliant troops, spawn, Helldrake is still good just not dominant, maulerfiends, oblits, havoks, and we're battle brothers with
another very strong codex?!!!

please, chaos is kicking imperium right now

I run Saanesh themed army [mostly] thus MoS on units but might work with MoN also, probably even better. I'm not most experienced or competitive player but I was thinking about something like this:

-Be'lakor [Telepathy]
-Sorcerer ML3: Spell Familiar, Bike [Telepathy]
-Lord: Bike, MoS
-Herald of Slaanesh ML1 [Telepathy]

-2x Noise Marines in Rhinos
-8x Bikers, MoS, FnP
-2x Maulerfiend
-15x Seeker of Slaanesh
+ whatever else you want to put there

Sorcerer throwing Invisibility at Seekers [if he rolls one].
Be'lakor throwing Invisibility at Bikes/Seekers [depending if Sorc have one], Shroud on himself.
You run/turbobost everything turn one [bikes, seekers, maulerfiends, rhinos [probably with dirge casters], assault turn 2 and kill.
Seekers should have quite a chance to survive 1turn of shooting with Invisibility and wreck all they touch in CC with Greater Lucus of Belusomething...Bikes with 2+ CoverSave T5 and FnP have quite a chance too. Be'lakor jumping with jink 2+.
Maulerfiends maybe, I didn't field any yet so I'm not sure, but they seems to fit as additional targets 'in your face turn 2'.
Rhinos if they survive may close overwatch with dirge casters and Noise Marines can jump out and dubstep something out of cover with Doom Sirens.

How that sounds?

Chaos has done nothing but get better in 7th. The heldrake went back to what it was when it was released. Now it is good, but not an auto take. All the vehicles got better with the changes to smash and the damage chart. Maulerfiends are even better than they were before with the changes to move through cover on top of everything else. I am trying to get two right now lol.

Sorcerers are amazing now as well. Hopefully they get errataed so that the primaris counts as their one roll on the chaos chart. But until then spell familiars giving re-rolls allows you to make your dice go a lot further than before. Telepathy is insanely good. In addition with everything scoring you dont have to invest in the lord to get troops from that slot.

So on and so forth, lots of overall boosts, in addition the changes to challenges basically work 100% in the chaos players favor now.

 Leth wrote:
Chaos has done nothing but get better in 7th. The heldrake went back to what it was when it was released. Now it is good, but not an auto take. All the vehicles got better with the changes to smash and the damage chart. Maulerfiends are even better than they were before with the changes to move through cover on top of everything else. I am trying to get two right now lol.

Sorcerers are amazing now as well. Hopefully they get errataed so that the primaris counts as their one roll on the chaos chart. But until then spell familiars giving re-rolls allows you to make your dice go a lot further than before. Telepathy is insanely good. In addition with everything scoring you dont have to invest in the lord to get troops from that slot.

So on and so forth, lots of overall boosts, in addition the changes to challenges basically work 100% in the chaos players favor now.

I don't think they changed very much at all, better or worse. The heldrake nerf is huge so I don't think you can really say "nothing but better" but they were never the auto-take that people made them out to be anyway. Spawn and bikers have always been just as good of a choice. As most of our vehicles are in the middle AV range I don't think the damage chart change helps much either. It seems to benefit high AV which is too hard to glance to death and low AV a little bit which get lots of pens even from medium S weapons. The middle AV's were just getting glanced down before with mid S weapons and they'll continue doing so just the same.

Sorcerers were always amazing, as was telepathy. I still don't see the viability of marked sorcs. Even if you don't have to actually roll on the god tables (I doubt this will get ruled this way) you are still wasting a free primaris that you could've gotten from a good table. The god tables were bad before, now that the rulebook powers have been buffed to make up for powers becoming more reliable, they are even worse in comparison. It would help some if they counted to make cult marines troops besides tzeentch whose powers are the worst in the game. troops is still a big deal. The ability for your plague marines to hold an objective won't mean much when any actual troop saunters over and takes it from them with Objective Secured.

The challenges are indeed a nice fix. Champion of Chaos no longer works against us as much as it is much less of a detriment to challenge in many cases. It still doesn't really do much to benefit us, but at least it doesn't hurt us nearly as much now.

JubbJubbz wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Chaos has done nothing but get better in 7th. The heldrake went back to what it was when it was released. Now it is good, but not an auto take. All the vehicles got better with the changes to smash and the damage chart. Maulerfiends are even better than they were before with the changes to move through cover on top of everything else. I am trying to get two right now lol.

Sorcerers are amazing now as well. Hopefully they get errataed so that the primaris counts as their one roll on the chaos chart. But until then spell familiars giving re-rolls allows you to make your dice go a lot further than before. Telepathy is insanely good. In addition with everything scoring you dont have to invest in the lord to get troops from that slot.

So on and so forth, lots of overall boosts, in addition the changes to challenges basically work 100% in the chaos players favor now.

I don't think they changed very much at all, better or worse. The heldrake nerf is huge so I don't think you can really say "nothing but better" but they were never the auto-take that people made them out to be anyway. Spawn and bikers have always been just as good of a choice. As most of our vehicles are in the middle AV range I don't think the damage chart change helps much either. It seems to benefit high AV which is too hard to glance to death and low AV a little bit which get lots of pens even from medium S weapons. The middle AV's were just getting glanced down before with mid S weapons and they'll continue doing so just the same.

Sorcerers were always amazing, as was telepathy. I still don't see the viability of marked sorcs. Even if you don't have to actually roll on the god tables (I doubt this will get ruled this way) you are still wasting a free primaris that you could've gotten from a good table. The god tables were bad before, now that the rulebook powers have been buffed to make up for powers becoming more reliable, they are even worse in comparison. It would help some if they counted to make cult marines troops besides tzeentch whose powers are the worst in the game. troops is still a big deal. The ability for your plague marines to hold an objective won't mean much when any actual troop saunters over and takes it from them with Objective Secured.

The challenges are indeed a nice fix. Champion of Chaos no longer works against us as much as it is much less of a detriment to challenge in many cases. It still doesn't really do much to benefit us, but at least it doesn't hurt us nearly as much now.

Glass half full versus glass half empty

 Leth wrote:
Maulerfiends are even better than they were before with the changes to move through cover on top of everything else.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Maulerfiends are even better than they were before with the changes to move through cover on top of everything else.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?

So vehicle damage is much harder to get the kill with now which means they are going to have to be hull pointed out. This combined with IWND means that they are much more likely to survive for longer. Combine this with things like malific providing bubbles to daemon invul saves. You can have two-three maulerfiends and helldrakes just sitting at a 4+ invul(one at a 2+/3+ with grim) from one casting of cursed earth.

Things like krak grenades no longer are going to get that chance kill like they used to.

Their biggest BIGGEST problem was enemy monstrous creatures but now with the nerf to smash it is a 2/3 chance to hit, followed by a 1/3 chance to save followed by a 1/6 chance of destroyed so 7% chance from smash. Where as before it was basically guaranteed.

They are not slowed at all when charging( although I dont know if they were before) since they have move through cover.

In addition they are scoring , which means it will be hard for even objective secured units to get close enough to contest without charging them. Combine this with their mobility in an edition that prioritizes being mobile(which also means your opponent is less likely to sit back and shoot ya and you are more likely to be able to get assaults off) combined with a glut of targets that it can mess up pretty bad

I think all of this really adds to the useability of the maulerfiend.

I am looking at an army that is something like this.

Sorcerer level three - daemonheart, spell familiar, aura
Nurgle lord - termie, axe, mark of nurgle, blight grenades

2x 5 man plague marines with double plasma and melta bomb in rhino with dozer

2x heldrake
2x maulerfiend with lash
2x oblits with nurgle

Allied
GUO with greater and middle lvl three

10x plague bearers with Icon and musician

1850. I think it could be fun to try

Go malific and try for cursed earth on sorcerer, then go biomancy on GUO potentially summon a unit or two. Get grim on GUO. Have 6 static dice.

So I've gotten a few games in with CSM in 7th now, and I'm curious what sort of lists people are running for pure CSM (no daemons) that can adequately handle Monstrous Creature spam (ala Tyranids) and 2+ heavy armies (like Grey Knights, the winds seem to be pointing to Draigo-wing making a come back).

The standard list I run mulches MEQ and below infantry and tanks like it's nobodies business. But I've found myself struggling against Grey Knights and Monstrous Creatures in general.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So I've gotten a few games in with CSM in 7th now, and I'm curious what sort of lists people are running for pure CSM (no daemons) that can adequately handle Monstrous Creature spam (ala Tyranids) and 2+ heavy armies (like Grey Knights, the winds seem to be pointing to Draigo-wing making a come back).

The standard list I run mulches MEQ and below infantry and tanks like it's nobodies business. But I've found myself struggling against Grey Knights and Monstrous Creatures in general.

I am not playing 7th, but was fond of lascannon spam in 6th edition, either from Havocs, Laspreds, or Land Raiders. I am sure I am not the only one who thought this way.

Ahriman has kicked ass in every game I've played him in in the last two years. Now he has the flexibility to take more support spells and save his 3Xwitchfires for one spell at the right moment. I also am a fan of brutes and vindicators. So for me? Buff for chaos.

Can you please link me to the FAQ's and explain how 1k sons got buffed? Thnx

 Chaos Rising wrote:
Can you please link me to the FAQ's and explain how 1k sons got buffed? Thnx

Just off the top of my head, changes to how primaris powers occur and generating powers, each squad now has two powers to use instead of one. Primaris is acquired if psychic focus is entirely in one discipline - since Tsons are M1, they by default can only focus on one discipline (Tzeentch) and thus automatically get its primaris. A small buff, but a buff.

I keep hearing complaint's about this codex but hardly anyone can beat the best Nurgle themed list that's out there just now. Its too solid. Even Tau struggle and my Eldar are on a 3 game losing streak against it.

This isn't codex: CSM this is codex: Nurgle. Stick to that and win without thought.

kryczek wrote:
I keep hearing complaint's about this codex but hardly anyone can beat the best Nurgle themed list that's out there just now. Its too solid. Even Tau struggle and my Eldar are on a 3 game losing streak against it.

This isn't codex: CSM this is codex: Nurgle. Stick to that and win without thought.

Kinda how its been for awhile lol.

kryczek wrote:
I keep hearing complaint's about this codex but hardly anyone can beat the best Nurgle themed list that's out there just now. Its too solid. Even Tau struggle and my Eldar are on a 3 game losing streak against it.

This isn't codex: CSM this is codex: Nurgle. Stick to that and win without thought.

And what would this Nurgle list consist off, May I ask?

Biker/ sorceror lord, 6 bikes.
Xx 7 man plague marines. 1 or 2 in rhino's.
7 Possessed.
2 Oblit's.
Tri-las Predator.
2x Blight drone's.
Maulerfeind.

1 or 2 heralds on planquins with locus of FNP.
1 or 2 Plague bearers x20.
+ daemon factory.

Any 2k from this list. It's just so hard to kill. Not amazing but resilient beyond funny.

kryczek wrote:
Biker/ sorceror lord, 6 bikes.
Xx 7 man plague marines. 1 or 2 in rhino's.
7 Possessed.
2 Oblit's.
Tri-las Predator.
2x Blight drone's.
Maulerfeind.

1 or 2 heralds on planquins with locus of FNP.
1 or 2 Plague bearers x20.
+ daemon factory.

Any 2k from this list. It's just so hard to kill. Not amazing but resilient beyond funny.

Are you serious? Possessed?
THIS is resilient beyond funny? Are you familiar with 2++ rerollable saves?