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 Compel wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure about Rico... I'd have thought he'd look a bit more like well, Johnny Rico, played by Casper Van Dien. That's just a random dude.

With a helmet on, that's what CVD looks like though!

 Zweischneid wrote:
So people were able to buy the Season 2 stuff at Salute 2013, but Kickstarter-backers with Season 2 stuff were once again left to wait and twiddle their thumbs?

Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money

Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.

But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.

Riquende wrote:
[

Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.

But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.

Well, they had pretty much the same excuse for putting Season 1 into the stores before KS-pledges were shipped.

It's getting old.

If there is not enough stuff back from China to honour the Kickstarter, don't sell it.
If there is enough to sell it, ship it to those that paid first (i.e. months ago) first.

What's so hard about that?

 Zweischneid wrote:


What's so hard about that?

It doesn't make sense?

"Hey, we've got all this extra stock left over after allocating all the KS backers, let's make sure we don't sell it at Salute."

Or

"Hey, we should starting stuff out to backers piecemeal as and when it arrives in the country, screw the cost implications."

It's getting old.

What's getting old is people demanding they get their stuff first as a KS backer.

Riquende wrote:


What's getting old is people demanding they get their stuff first as a KS backer.

I am not demanding that people avoid peeing into other people's morning coffee.

Yet if I see people doing it, I can and do note that it seems to be rather bad form to do such a thing.

Only my opinion. And, coincidently, there are places such as online forums created specifically so people can express their opinion. Lucky me!!!!

And yes, if they cannot successfully ship to KS-backers before Salute.. don't sell it at Salute (Adepticon, etc..). If Mantic had even a modest interest in building customer trust and return-business, that would be the prudent thing to do.

Just hold the excess stock for another month (Mantic Open day.. say) and make sure your reputation as a company stays intact. Going for the quick profit at the expense of all else is not sustainable business.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money

Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money

Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.

Lol, what? What rulebook was that? Kings of War?

Riquende wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
So people were able to buy the Season 2 stuff at Salute 2013, but Kickstarter-backers with Season 2 stuff were once again left to wait and twiddle their thumbs?
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money

Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.
But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.

Not that I'm too fussed personally, but CMON copped a lot of heat for a similar incident involving Zombicide and GenCon as I recall...

KS IS NOT A PREORDER SITE.

Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.

anyone who took a pre-order was refunded and pledged through the KS. Everyone of them the pre-order allowed those who didn't know what kickstarter was OR didn't want to use it to buy the book.

And yes, if they cannot successfully ship to KS-backers before Salute.. don't sell it at Salute (Adepticon, etc..). If Mantic had even a modest interest in building customer trust and return-business, that would be the prudent thing to do.

people at salute could pick up their kickstarter packages. in fact I even spoke to people who turned them down of that offer because they were happy to wait. aprils releases were at salute, KS ships ends of april beginning of may. may releases ship end of may. We get most of S2 first, a little bit of it at the same time as the shops and a tiny bit a week behind salute. big fecking deal... mountain out of a molehill mate, seriously.

It's amusing that without reading who's the poster and just by reading the text of the complaint, I can guess who it is. I can understand why Zwei would be annoyed since he pledged for the KS I think but Kroothawk?

 Black Nexus wrote:

people at salute could pick up their kickstarter packages. in fact I even spoke to people who turned them down of that offer because they were happy to wait. aprils releases were at salute, KS ships ends of april beginning of may. may releases ship end of may. We get most of S2 first, a little bit of it at the same time as the shops and a tiny bit a week behind salute. big fecking deal... mountain out of a molehill mate, seriously.

Says another account who, in 4 years on Dakka, never ever ever wrote a single post not related on a Mantic Games topic.




Good to see all the unbiased, self-reflected people chiming in again to extinguish the slightest wiff of non-ultra-positive-mantic-news at a minutes notice.

And no, it's not a big fecking deal. I never said that. It's an annoying small thing... but it is that.

Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"

You guys may possibly want to chill out a little there. Just a thought.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"

Well. I could post "posted-in" too, but it'd be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong picture for 200+ posts.

Just go look yourself

Gotta love the approach of attacking someone's character instead of posting intelligent debate succinctly.

Time-honoured internet tradition right there.

 Azazelx wrote:
You guys may possibly want to chill out a little there. Just a thought.

Yeah, seriously about to start utilizing (for the first time ever) the ol' Ignore button.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"

Well. I could post "posted-in" too, but it'd be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong picture for 200+ posts.

Just go look yourself

Ah, "Fake but accurate"? Nice going there

OK, definitely time to settle down in here - yes?

Getting back to the "what KS should give to the backers and when" comments

I feel it all comes down to shipping. A company would go broke if they shipped you every single item as it became available instead of putting it together in a number of bundles. If they have part of the order ready, but are waiting on the rest, you really have no intention of "supporting the company" if you have issues with them selling "what's ready now" while they wait for the rest of your order.

It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.

Earth Dragon wrote:


It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.

There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.

And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.

Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?

The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:


It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.

There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.

And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.

Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?

The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.

So let me ask this question in a comparison:

Let's say that, um, Ferrari had a Kickstarter, to make a brand new car. Let's say that the backers helped this to come to fruition, much like I've heard slung about on this forum, that the backers helped Season 2 and 3 to come about, as -those- weren't pre-orders. So, if Ferrari is making those cars, and some have been assembled and delivered, but now I'm waiting on, oh, let's say the stereo, because I ordered the deluxe, not the Alpine, it's seriously ok for them to go to market and sell that model Ferrari to someone else before they deliver it to the "people who made it happen"?

I don't believe for an instant that Mantic would go under if they held off on selling those two Season 2 teams at Salute. They could have demo'd it and had the prettily painted models on display and told enthusiastic Salute goers that "Yes, you'll be able to order these right after we deliver to all those Mantic supporters who allowed us to deliver this great addition to our game!" Instead I see a business that isn't interested in who helped them get to that point, merely how to make the next dollar...

 Zweischneid wrote:
But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.

Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?

The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.

^ The Mantic Ninja Gestapo. I like that title.

What do we think guys, maybe have it as our club name and spraypaint it on the treehouse? Sounds cooler than water carriers or white knights at any rate.

Maybe Mantic will start taking us seriously and start paying us money to make positive forum posts instead of shovelfuls of drakon rider overstock. :p


Anyway, the Amera stadium is supposed to be pretty good, better than their usual plastic and made out of thicker stuff. It does look a bit plain, but loads of potential for LEDs and sponsorship posters and things:

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:


It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.

There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.

And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.

Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?

The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.

So let me ask this question in a comparison:

Let's say that, um, Ferrari had a Kickstarter, to make a brand new car. Let's say that the backers helped this to come to fruition, much like I've heard slung about on this forum, that the backers helped Season 2 and 3 to come about, as -those- weren't pre-orders. So, if Ferrari is making those cars, and some have been assembled and delivered, but now I'm waiting on, oh, let's say the stereo, because I ordered the deluxe, not the Alpine, it's seriously ok for them to go to market and sell that model Ferrari to someone else before they deliver it to the "people who made it happen"?

I don't believe for an instant that Mantic would go under if they held off on selling those two Season 2 teams at Salute. They could have demo'd it and had the prettily painted models on display and told enthusiastic Salute goers that "Yes, you'll be able to order these right after we deliver to all those Mantic supporters who allowed us to deliver this great addition to our game!" Instead I see a business that isn't interested in who helped them get to that point, merely how to make the next dollar...

Little too much of a stretch. You'd have to buy several cars to line up with what the subject matter is. Huge difference between waiting on a small adjustment of a product and waiting for all the MVPs to be finished and with sufficient stock before your KS box goes out.

And they weren't selling them on their website. They were selling them at a special preview venue, as you stated. This isn't them trying to "make a dollar however they can" and more another way to generate interest in the product by offering things not out on the market yet. Now if folks hear about Mantic at a convention, they'll make sure they get their butts over there to see what they might have.

And the vast majority of backers aren't gonna care they did that. You can't call Mantic ungrateful for not giving KS backers EVERYTHING first, and act like those miffed aren't ungrateful when their reward was dirt cheap prices, free shipping for many of the backers, and practically every single MVP for free.

Again, frustration understandable, and the personal attacks were over the top (on both sides), but I feel it is more selfish on of the individual to not let a company try to expand a game how they can. From everything I gather, it is getting a sufficient number of all the MVPs for the KS packages that is one of the major hold ups, and shipping them one-by-one would just be foolish, and would damage their business.

I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?

I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.

 cincydooley wrote:
I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?

I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.

Should have waited for Ronnie to show up, I got a demo, and an explanation of what each team had in their roster (twice!). You missed out, it's a fun little game... And I was able to market it to my family as a board game, so I might be able to play it

 cincydooley wrote:
I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?

I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.

Heh, sounds like they're taking lessons from Redshirts.... the last two or three demos I saw from official GW staff (and the one I got when I asked for a LoTR demo) was pretty much "Everything moves six inches and everything happens on a 4+" without any explanation of mechanics; a far cry from the really awesome Blood Bowl demo I got circa 2000.

Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.

I figured as much. I was pretty turned off by the "demo". I don't think Ronnie was at the table the few times I was able to make it in the dealer hall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RatBot wrote:
.

Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.

That's basically what I asked for. He told me he didn't have time to do that and they had full demos available as ticketed events somewhere else. Like I said, not a perfect experience.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?

I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.

Should have waited for Ronnie to show up, I got a demo, and an explanation of what each team had in their roster (twice!). You missed out, it's a fun little game... And I was able to market it to my family as a board game, so I might be able to play it

This can EASILY pass as a board game. After a few games, people will be dying to number their team members and start playing for XP and kill their opponents permanently.

RatBot wrote:Heh, sounds like they're taking lessons from Redshirts.... the last two or three demos I saw from official GW staff (and the one I got when I asked for a LoTR demo) was pretty much "Everything moves six inches and everything happens on a 4+" without any explanation of mechanics; a far cry from the really awesome Blood Bowl demo I got circa 2000.

Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.

Except that when you have crowds of people trying to get demos, buy product, divert your attention in some way, shape, or manner, your demos have to be just enough to give someone a taste. While the "everything moves 6 inches and saves on a 4+" is a dumb way to do it, I spent the majority of my time giving people a full turn or so with small forces for Brushfire, so they could learn the game, get a feel for it, and get on with their day. If they stayed in the booth or wanted a longer demo, I obliged. More often than not, they thanked me for my time, and perused our product.

Companies at GenCon write out scripts for their demos, and time it out so that you can give someone a feel for the game in 7 and a half minutes tops.

cincydooley wrote:I figured as much. I was pretty turned off by the "demo". I don't think Ronnie was at the table the few times I was able to make it in the dealer hall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RatBot wrote:
.

Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.

That's basically what I asked for. He told me he didn't have time to do that and they had full demos available as ticketed events somewhere else. Like I said, not a perfect experience.

Wyrd did something similar at GenCon last year. They had quick 5 to 10 minutes (at most) demos in the booth and hour long demos in the Event Hall, that you had to have a ticket for (though if we had no shows, we'd take people without tickets).