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I got to warn you guys, Prodos may be great at communicating now but once you've given them your money they don't seem that obliged. The major backers of WZR still haven't received their product and it has become as good impossible to get an answer more than once a month from Prodos on what's going on.
Sure there are kickstarters that have been worse but if there are others worse is your best excuse it isn't much of one.

Prodos you may think that you don't have time for WZR during the final days of the AvP kickstarter well, if you're not careful it may become the wet blanket on the usual last minute plegder inferno (not because I posting but because a lot of people pledged on both it seems). And all because you can't be arsed to make a 5 min update. This is not the time to conduct yourself anything but exemplary.

This update went up just before you posted this

(I know this is slightly off topic here but since Prodos's KS record is being questioned)



further details here

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection/posts/673851?ref=activity

so stuff is being done, progress is being made and as all the items needed to fulfil a pledge come in they are being sent out

 TheDungen wrote:
I got to warn you guys, Prodos may be great at communicating now but once you've given them your money they don't seem that obliged. The major backers of WZR still haven't received their product and it has become as good impossible to get an answer more than once a month from Prodos on what's going on.
Sure there are kickstarters that have been worse but if there are others worse is your best excuse it isn't much of one.

Prodos you may think that you don't have time for WZR during the final days of the AvP kickstarter well, if you're not careful it may become the wet blanket on the usual last minute plegder inferno (not because I posting but because a lot of people pledged on both it seems). And all because you can't be arsed to make a 5 min update. This is not the time to conduct yourself anything but exemplary.

Who are the major backers? The guys I know who pledged have received their WZR stuff. We also got to see the WZR stuff at the open day, and it looked good. The rulebook is fantastic, too.

And for anyone interested, here's my recording of the Wargame being played. Alas, it never finished because people were leaving. But it'll still give people an idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InXRnojdtlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WZhb57dxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54w7oC5oX7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGa6mI8WQYg

That update went up slightly after I posted I had just finished the post and had set my coffee-pot on when the phone buzzed with the notification of the update. But It's likely more a response to the storm of posts on their own forum than to my post now I'll admitt that.

As for major backers, it's as simple as the more different stuff you've chosen the more likely that something isn't finished and they won't ship until everything (except the 'heavies') in your order is finished. So except those who have ordered loads of the same units then larger backers generally have more different units and thus are less likely to have had their order completed at this time. Now AvP has only three factions so the risks of the same happening there is much smaller.

Perhaps I should apologise to prodos for my haste in posting the earlier post, but I'm out quite a lot of money (at least what's a lot of money for me)

No that's totally reasonable, Dungen, and I'm glad you and others prompted them to update on their status there.

Communication has certainly been a bit frustrating, but again I know they're a small operation, and when I have gotten through to them I have been satisfied with the response.

There have been 4 separate instances that they've made either changes (new pledge level, letting the lowest level double-count as the international shipping cost, etc) or clarifications to this campaign based on my messaging them... persistence does pay off here

-----------------------------------------------------

A clarification on Marines add-ons, you can add either the box models or the separate add-on pack they created:

Also we know there has been some confusion, we are offering 2 different sets of Colonial Marines as add ons:



From the boxed game (and including a the flamer Medic)



Add-on only version

Also, despite the pledge level dropping below 230K temporarily (people are doing it intentionally, it seems) Prodos went ahead and unlocked the 230K goal, so the Young Blood Predators are in!

Just the Power Loader, Free Praetorian, and Queen to go!

Update #23
£250000 Stretch Goal Announced:

The Powerloader will be Unlocked as an Add-on for £15 when we reach £250k


So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!). The youngbloods are unlocked:


Also we know there has been some confusion, we are offering 2 different sets of Colonial Marines as add ons:

From the boxed game (and including a the flamer Medic):


Add-on only version:


And although we can not share images yet Objective Markers for the Marines and Colonials can be added to your pledge for £10 each set of 4
Add a set of Alien (eggs) OR Marine OR Predator Objective Markers for £10 for 4 markersAdd a set of Alien (eggs) OR Marine OR Predator Objective Markers for £10 for 4 markers

Seems like some people make big efforts to troll this company and kickstarter:

So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!)

Also, for the record:

Update #24
A great collection of links collected by Ropya

Thanks to Ropya for collecting these and all the people that have blogged and shared:

Pledge calculators Robin Rosengren: https://www.dropbox.com/s/si3luljgk85eysd/avp-calc-mint-v5.xlsx

CtanSama: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iccmv26q65v9d6n/avp-calcv4-05Custom.xlsx

Cmon Painted Miniatures: http://www.coolminiornot.com/browse/browseid/7332608

Links to AvP Open Day (images and comments)

http://instagram.com/avpopenday

http://jasonbarlowartist.wordpress.com/

http://28mmheaven.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1621774283/battle-systemstm-sci-fi-modular-terrain/posts/672240

http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.com.br/?m=1

http://postimg.org/gallery/9n1aul76/33127e62/?code=33127e62

http://bogend.simplesite.com/301331545

AvP Open Day (video by Wolfun)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4G322z7iiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8sBCMS0Dyk&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InXRnojdtlQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WZhb57dxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54w7oC5oX7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGa6mI8WQYg

Player comments:

Wolfun -
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game/comments?cursor=5218534#comment-5218533

Colin James -
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game/comments?cursor=5217421#comment-5217420

I think the power loader is cool and all, but it was an improvised weapon, I don't think it has much of a place in the scope of this game. One on one with a queen game, sure, one on one with anything else and the operator is a sitting duck.

 TheDungen wrote:
As for major backers, it's as simple as the more different stuff you've chosen the more likely that something isn't finished and they won't ship until everything (except the 'heavies') in your order is finished. So except those who have ordered loads of the same units then larger backers generally have more different units and thus are less likely to have had their order completed at this time.

I can only confirm your experience!

I pledged with 300+ GBP in the Warzone KS and have so far received NOTHING.
It really seems to be the case that the more different stuff you pledged for, the later you get your minis.
To be fair however, I have to admit that I did not ask for an advanced shipment...

So for AvP I limited myself to a more moderate amount of pledge...

Visceral_Mass wrote:
I think the power loader is cool and all, but it was an improvised weapon, I don't think it has much of a place in the scope of this game. One on one with a queen game, sure, one on one with anything else and the operator is a sitting duck.

It was a tool for a movie scene and is silly in the game. It would be like expending resources to add a forklift to a modern combat game instead of some support weapons or more troop types.

Having said that, including it just may be part of the licensing agreement.

Still, not something to waste money on in my opinion.

 CptJake wrote:

Visceral_Mass wrote:
I think the power loader is cool and all, but it was an improvised weapon, I don't think it has much of a place in the scope of this game. One on one with a queen game, sure, one on one with anything else and the operator is a sitting duck.

It was a tool for a movie scene and is silly in the game. It would be like expending resources to add a forklift to a modern combat game instead of some support weapons or more troop types.

Having said that, including it just may be part of the licensing agreement.

Still, not something to waste money on in my opinion.

I doubt that it was part of the licensing agreement. It's probably just fanservice.
Prodos has already said something to the effect of they cannot include characters from the movies but the powerloader was probably fair game. It would be a shame though if that were the case and they decided to just one for one the powerloader into the game rather than try to include the militarized exoskeletons.

 CptJake wrote:

Visceral_Mass wrote:
I think the power loader is cool and all, but it was an improvised weapon, I don't think it has much of a place in the scope of this game. One on one with a queen game, sure, one on one with anything else and the operator is a sitting duck.

It was a tool for a movie scene and is silly in the game. It would be like expending resources to add a forklift to a modern combat game instead of some support weapons or more troop types.

Having said that, including it just may be part of the licensing agreement.

Still, not something to waste money on in my opinion.

I don't think it was part of the license agreement, I think it is another "isn't this cool" miniature geared towards getting the "fanboys" to up their pledges.

The comments section is a mess, and info given seems to stay there instead of being included in easy to read updates, so...

Anyone have a feel for what the objective markers accomplish in the board game? They come in sets of 4 for 10gbp. Would I ever need 4 from a single faction, especially in the board game? Currently, they seem to be a very much less than essential add on to me.

Next: Anyone know if they are accounting for the underslung grenade launcher on the pulse rifles? The picture of the page from the rulebook I saw showed a stat line for the rifle itself, but not one for the grenade launcher. Especially in the corridors of the board game it is potentially a potent weapon, I'm curious how they handle it.

For everyone wondering why the Powerloader is in this:

Jarek has said that the AVP Arcade game was a major influence on him as a child and this project as a whole. The Powerloader is a boss then tough enemy in the Arcade game.

In AvP2, the EXOSUIT is also just a modified Powerloader with armour and weapons.

It also features in Colonial Marines, but the less said about that the better....

 Wolfun wrote:
For everyone wondering why the Powerloader is in this:

Jarek has said that the AVP Arcade game was a major influence on him as a child and this project as a whole. The Powerloader is a boss then tough enemy in the Arcade game.

In AvP2, the EXOSUIT is also just a modified Powerloader with armour and weapons.

It also features in Colonial Marines, but the less said about that the better....

So basically, again, "fanservice".

The canon for the Aliens universe actually had the Exosuit before AvP2.

 Kroothawk wrote:
So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!)

It's my understanding that KS campaign creators can refuse and block individual backers if they so choose.

Not that this is ideal; at best it's losing some cash those people might actually provide, at worst it's a full time job hunting down and removing their various alts. Doubly so since apparently some people are taking to having a dozen+ KS accounts to get around "per backer" bonus restrictions in some campaigns.

But if it's literally the same people, there are options available to deal with them.

Shadows of Brimstone got trolled the same way at the end of their campaign. Might even be the same guy, given what we know of him and his attitude.

"So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!). The youngbloods are unlocked"

Can someone explain why people do this and what the purpose is to pledge and retract?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Wolfun wrote:
For everyone wondering why the Powerloader is in this:

Jarek has said that the AVP Arcade game was a major influence on him as a child and this project as a whole. The Powerloader is a boss then tough enemy in the Arcade game.

In AvP2, the EXOSUIT is also just a modified Powerloader with armour and weapons.

It also features in Colonial Marines, but the less said about that the better....

So basically, again, "fanservice".

The canon for the Aliens universe actually had the Exosuit before AvP2.

What's wrong with Fan service? I'm not even going to be playing Marines, but I'm still getting a Powerloader.

And in what? I remember the APE suit in the books and comics, but don't remember the Exosuit before AvP2.

 Forlorn wrote:
"So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!). The youngbloods are unlocked"

Can someone explain why people do this and what the purpose is to pledge and retract?

They're being donkey-caves.

Because there's always a spike of excitement when a stretch goal target is solidly passed, so fluffing the numbers to get close to one and then pulling their pledge(s) causes a response in the community.

 AAN wrote:

 TheDungen wrote:
As for major backers, it's as simple as the more different stuff you've chosen the more likely that something isn't finished and they won't ship until everything (except the 'heavies') in your order is finished. So except those who have ordered loads of the same units then larger backers generally have more different units and thus are less likely to have had their order completed at this time.

I can only confirm your experience!

I pledged with 300+ GBP in the Warzone KS and have so far received NOTHING.
It really seems to be the case that the more different stuff you pledged for, the later you get your minis.
To be fair however, I have to admit that I did not ask for an advanced shipment...

So for AvP I limited myself to a more moderate amount of pledge...

Also Rob has asked you whether you want you stuff in multiple shipments. His understanding was no. AAN I will get him to pick on Wednesday, if your view has changed.

Polyurethane resin is what all the stuff in the KS is made of

 Wolfun wrote:
For everyone wondering why the Powerloader is in this:

Jarek has said that the AVP Arcade game was a major influence on him as a child and this project as a whole. The Powerloader is a boss then tough enemy in the Arcade game.

In AvP2, the EXOSUIT is also just a modified Powerloader with armour and weapons.

It also features in Colonial Marines, but the less said about that the better....

Does that mean we will eventually see many of the different alien subtypes (or the infectoids) from that game, in this game?

They've said they want to have 12 different types of units for each faction eventually, so I think there's room for a lot of things (they're also drawing from basically everything except Prometheus, including the video games).

 CptJake wrote:
Anyone have a feel for what the objective markers accomplish in the board game? They come in sets of 4 for 10gbp. Would I ever need 4 from a single faction, especially in the board game? Currently, they seem to be a very much less than essential add on to me.

I don't think they serve any purpose other than to look prettier on the tabletop than a small cardstock chit. I'd have preferred though a marine entombed in alien goo/hive matrix instead of wrecked bishop but I can see how the former isn't dual purposed in a two player game of predators vs marines.

Any idea why each side would need 4 in the board game? How are these used?

EDIT: This really seems like the type of stretch goal that instead of being an add on should have been an enhancement to the board game. Maybe include 1-2 of each (depending on how many you need for the scenarios/missions in the board game) in each box.

 Forlorn wrote:
"So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!). The youngbloods are unlocked"

Can someone explain why people do this and what the purpose is to pledge and retract?

Seriously?

Because the project is, in my opinion, a gakfest. I have changed my pledge several times, partially because of confusion, partially because I had a change of heart, and as of now, because I have decided to feth it. I'm in for whatever pops out of thier chest.

I say it is a gakfest because of it being... just jumbled up. The pledges don't do any favors, either, for the pricing, the "Add ons and add ons funding", to whatever they think they are doing by adding on the pleasure of paying for... something.

Had they just out the gate said, hey, we have X,Y, and Z. You can add these additional A, B, and C's on for this and that price, it would have gone over a little better in the long run.

Instead, they seem like they are making gak up to try to wow the late bloomers to the party. The confusing non updates kinda !@#$ me off as well.

I'm all for stuffing a cheeseburger down a dates throat for a good time, but I'm not going to stuff a roast turkey, filet minion, and a side order of gak in there if she thinks I want to get lucky.

There might be some fethers up there, nutting up the process, but in honesty, this is a gak project run pretty roughly through the ringer. Alien, the Marines, and the Preds, of all things are the only thing keeping me on board, or I would have dropped this gak run project in a hot minute.

I can't speak for anyone else, but thats MY opinion.

 Forar wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!)

It's my understanding that KS campaign creators can refuse and block individual backers if they so choose.

Not that this is ideal; at best it's losing some cash those people might actually provide, at worst it's a full time job hunting down and removing their various alts. Doubly so since apparently some people are taking to having a dozen+ KS accounts to get around "per backer" bonus restrictions in some campaigns.

But if it's literally the same people, there are options available to deal with them.

Shadows of Brimstone got trolled the same way at the end of their campaign. Might even be the same guy, given what we know of him and his attitude.

I remember enquiring about blocking pledgers or moderating on the Bones KS and they promptly responded it was not possible as the drawbacks would be greater in such that any valid concerns and questions might be hidden - giving scam artists free reign on the KS platform. Which is unwanted. As such you just have to deal with what comes with the public territory that is KS. To be honest I find the fanboy attitude surrounding the comments section on all KS's infinitely more annoying and detracting than the odd unfair or negative remark. In fact I think it's being bred by people that instantly pounce on any person that might question the KS. There are some infamous people on KS that are seen as a nuisance only, but I find that some of the questions posed and remarks made are completely valid. It's only annoying when it regresses into "well you are stupid and we don't need you" and it spirals out of control. I can't believe how many people take personal offence when someone questions a KS campaign. It makes it very hard to use the comments section in a favorable way. I said "oh well, seeya folks" at one point and someone spewed good riddence and whatnot and called me childish. Feth me.

Grot 6, the point was not the normal people changing their pledges, it's people who do so to tempt out a stretch goal unlock, then drop thousands.

This actually happened at the end of Shadows of Brimstone, dropping something like 8K in the last few minutes. Maybe a few of those were people with cold feet, but there were probably some people doing it in more of a trolling fashion, as well.

That it something Kickstarter will probably have to be more vigilant about, or simply make it harder to make multiple accounts (which they could do by a variety of means, it's too easy to make multiple accounts right now).

But all that said I've probably adjusted my pledge 10 times or more here although I have it set now that the price of all add-ons have been revealed.

 basement.dweller wrote:

 Forar wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
So even though we have dropped a little below the young Blood Goal (due to some deliberate pulling back - same persons everytime!!)

It's my understanding that KS campaign creators can refuse and block individual backers if they so choose.

Not that this is ideal; at best it's losing some cash those people might actually provide, at worst it's a full time job hunting down and removing their various alts. Doubly so since apparently some people are taking to having a dozen+ KS accounts to get around "per backer" bonus restrictions in some campaigns.

But if it's literally the same people, there are options available to deal with them.

Shadows of Brimstone got trolled the same way at the end of their campaign. Might even be the same guy, given what we know of him and his attitude.

I remember enquiring about blocking pledgers or moderating on the Bones KS and they promptly responded it was not possible as the drawbacks would be greater in such that any valid concerns and questions might be hidden - giving scam artists free reign on the KS platform. Which is unwanted. As such you just have to deal with what comes with the public territory that is KS. To be honest I find the fanboy attitude surrounding the comments section on all KS's infinitely more annoying and detracting than the odd unfair or negative remark. In fact I think it's being bred by people that instantly pounce on any person that might question the KS. There are some infamous people on KS that are seen as a nuisance only, but I find that some of the questions posed and remarks made are completely valid. It's only annoying when it regresses into "well you are stupid and we don't need you" and it spirals out of control. I can't believe how many people take personal offence when someone questions a KS campaign. It makes it very hard to use the comments section in a favorable way. I said "oh well, seeya folks" at one point and someone spewed good riddence and whatnot and called me childish. Feth me.

Hence my leveling the accusation of Groupthink™ towards the KS comments.
But of course, my opinion is apparently "way over the line".
It might be that, to the Groupthink™ consortium at least.

Its just drowning put valid criticisms through bullying. Plain and simple.

Overactive groupthinkTM is common to almost any kickstarter. I've personally witnessed/am witnessing it on Robotech where the same people who shouted you down for suggesting the campaign would be delayed are now poo-pooing it away as "you should have expected it would be delayed! It's a kickstarter and totally not the company's fault!" and I heard the same thing happened on various Mantic campaigns from posts here as well. I don't think there is any way of avoiding fanboi blinding enthusiasm nor is there any way of avoiding grognard rumbling. I've personally found though that the former tends to be more blatantly and purposely offensive to fellow posters than the later (which tends to direct frustration at the host).

I'm pretty frustrated by the fan boy aspect of the comments. Admittedly it does indeed exist on most game related KS projects I have participated in.

Where it really troubles me on this one is it is exacerbated by really poor communications on the part of Prodos. Almost all info of any relevance to the game is buried in the multiple thousands of comments, and NOT in the FAQ or in updates. If you ask a valid question and are not a fan boy, Prodos seems to ignore you (and the fan boys jump in your gak for having the audacity to ask a question).

When I am spending as much as I potentially am on this have been pledged at the 'real aliens' level since Day 1 and have considered going much higher), having my questions ignored and or ridiculed pisses me off. I know my pledge amount is minuscule compared to some of the folks I see bragging about how much they are pledging so I get that I will never be Prodos' priority. But we know so damned little about the game really, and their communication is confused and disorganized at best. The fan 'group think' added on top of that just grinds like sand in my underwear and frustrates the hell out of me.