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I have a love/hate relationship with this thread.
I'm gonna try and forget about things for August, see if a box turns up and if Prodos decides to sent backers an official update. I've ordered the Terminator Miniature Game so that should keep me plenty occupied.

I'm not "worried" about AVP (provided the latest estimates aren't WAY off or things implode) as Kingdom Death, Journey Wrath of Demons and Rum and Bones may all arrive in the meantime. I like to think I'm backing fewer projects nowadays!

Off topic, Marrow (Journey Wrath of Demons) seemed a bit of a gamble on an unknown company but they've been pretty cool throughout. I'd back them and Kingdom Death again if funds allow. Cmon projects tend to be hit or miss depending on the game.

 Moses Bad wrote:
Well, I say, it has a board, it's a board game, no matter how complicated to set up.
Remember Mouse Trap and other games in it's keel? Board games.
And the rules can be as illogical as the bible, still a board game.
Only difference, the people it appeals to and the what I call casual gamer will not be. Too complicated rules, too much fiddely diddely.
Whereas a lot of people don't care for the rules or the board, they just wanted minis to use for own purposes.

Result, it's a poor board game when it gets to playability (and this includes what I've heard of the rules and what I know myself of the fiddely diddely of the minis), but it's a board game.

Technically speaking it is a board game, simply because it is played on a board, but then, technically speaking, so are games played on "boards" decorated with terrain, like 40K.

Last time I checked games like Mouse Trap didn't require glue or any other tools to assemble.

Look at Mantic's Mars Attacks The Miniatures game. The out of the box components of that game essentially amount to a board game, yet they chose to call it a miniatures game. Why?

My point is that, if this were intended to be a board game marketed toward the board game crowd, and not a miniatures games being labeled as a board game, the design choices would have been a lot different.

Does 40K come with a board? No. Does AvP come with a board? Yes.
C'mon, if you want to mince every single word, just because you can't stand being corrected, you can call roulette a board game. My parents had it, with a board.
Usually not, sometimes did. They had glitches, like many things with moving parts - but, that's rather on a case to case basis.

Because they wanted to? Ask them, not me.
I could argue, as long as you don't need a measure, it's a board game - but then classic BT would be a board game just as well.

You really want to go and question Prodos' decissions? After all these months?
It's labeled a board game. The target audience is board gamers. They missed that audience so far, I can't even say how far.

But, according to you, there is only one viewpoint that is valid and that just has to be yours.
Fine. Have a nice day.

 Moses Bad wrote:
Does 40K come with a board? No. Does AvP come with a board? Yes.
C'mon, if you want to mince every single word, just because you can't stand being corrected, you can call roulette a board game. My parents had it, with a board.
Usually not, sometimes did. They had glitches, like many things with moving parts - but, that's rather on a case to case basis.

Because they wanted to? Ask them, not me.
I could argue, as long as you don't need a measure, it's a board game - but then classic BT would be a board game just as well.

You really want to go and question Prodos' decissions? After all these months?
It's labeled a board game. The target audience is board gamers. They missed that audience so far, I can't even say how far.

But, according to you, there is only one viewpoint that is valid and that just has to be yours.
Fine. Have a nice day.

I don't mind being corrected, if I was misrepresenting a fact, but I have only been presenting my point of view on what makes a board game and how typical board gamers will respond to games like AvP. In other words my opinion on the matter.

If you don't like it, fine, but just because I counter your opinion with my own opinion doesn't mean mine is the only valid opinion, it just means I disagree with yours which seems to be what you really have a problem with.

We can just agree to disagree.

AvP is what is known as a Miniatures Board game or Board game with miniatures, which is different than a Board Game. It does play on a game board, but it also isn't strictly confined to simply just a board. It is more a Miniatures Board game because the pieces are multi-pieced that need to be assembled and are typically a higher quality detailed miniature than board games.

Board Games are usually board games or more closely CMoN style games that are playable straight out of the box, without the need to clean and assemble miniatures.

There are people that cross into both categories but there are people that also stay strictly within their categories as well. It is an interesting market with varied opinions, compared to standard Board games (with no miniatures).

"Prodos Games Ltd says:
This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for Friday August 7, 2015"

- Editted - Deleted due to duplication of info from Sunday August 9ths email to backers. My apologies.

Yes. That was posted a page ago.

 cincydooley wrote:
Yes. That was posted a page ago.

Sorry folks. Only recieved the email this evening. Thought it was "new". False alarm.

It wAs posted as a fb update last time, they edited the language and posted it out as an email to every backer, not just those on the closed fb page.

Thanks for taking the time to post it, don't mind the short response mate.

 Sheep wrote:
It wAs posted as a fb update last time, they edited the language and posted it out as an email to every backer, not just those on the closed fb page.

Thanks for taking the time to post it, don't mind the short response mate.

The closed group that literally anyone can join? That one?

Read the thread. Don't post the same stuff over again. Pretty simple stuff.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sheep wrote:
It wAs posted as a fb update last time, they edited the language and posted it out as an email to every backer, not just those on the closed fb page.

Thanks for taking the time to post it, don't mind the short response mate.

The closed group that literally anyone can join? That one?

Read the thread. Don't post the same stuff over again. Pretty simple stuff.

I'm not going to sign up to Facebook so I can't join.

As long as their sharing the info outside of this I don't mind. but if they have two open Facebook pages, it doesn't make sense to me that they would only interact with people via the closed one and be a bit rubbish interacting with people in the other 2.

Happy we've got an update I would have liked a progress report on how many units have been shipped ( just to see if it's gone down again )
or an update on their actual production capacity, didn't they say when they made the KS version available to non backers it was because they had to print a minimum x thousand copy's at a time.
If that's the case and the minis are all done(again like they have Said before) what's the hold up in production?
If about 600 were shipped as of 25th July and they were aiming to produce 150 boxes a day shouldn't all the remaining boxes be made for us reminding 2093 backers? ( I would have thought the last update would have been a big pic of all the games ready to go and how many they can post each day given they have a half their staff off)

This might be a little "out of date". Trudged through my old emails to find this from August 2014.

"2. As we are manufacturing a Kickstarter Exclusive Game, we have to make a minimum of 5000 units (this is the minimum amount to meet the next bracket for printing costs).
After checking our Kickstarter numbers, we will not meet even half of this number, meaning we would be warehousing over 2500 unused games that won't be available once we start shipping to backers. Warehousing any product has a huge cost implication. This is why we made the business decision to sell these remaining units using the same offer as Kickstarter and keep things fair. It also made business sense for us to meet the demands of folks who did unfortunately miss the Kickstarter. These 5000 copies represent a collectable, Special Edition version of the game as promised and once they are gone, will not be available again.
This goes for the Predator Berserker (both opaque and clear cast) model too.
Please bear in mind that the quantities listed on our website are there simply so that we do not sell out of a particular pledge level. Until the end of October, we will continue to sell them and then once we reach that time, we will stop selling them.
Any remaining copies will be donated to charity and distributed to retailers to use as demo copies. We read a comment on our forum suggesting we were making 8000 copies available, which is simply not the case!"

I think 5000 boxes were originally being produced with less than 2500 going to kickstarter backers. (I'm curious how many of the remaining 2500+ copies became demo copies or raised money for charity). A lot can happen in a year though and I don't know if the intended print run has changed.

I remember that.

Interestingly I never thought meeting " the demands of folks who did unfortunately miss the Kickstarter" meant pushing the KS exclusive version into general retail via the distribution network.

It was bad enough the went back on KS exclusive and sold it to those poor unfortunate souls who missed the KS via their own webstore. I guess many of those poor souls really needed to see it in their FLGS or favorite webstore to feel they were treated fairly.

And meanwhile the majority of KS backers wish they could be treated as fairly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Latest North Star newsletter says they have AvP back in stock. As in they had some, sold out, and have been restocked.

With the KS Exclusive Bespoke Edition.

Hooray for Prodos.

19th July update,
"We are not selling to retailers at the moment for 4-6 weeks, whilst we fulfil KS shipments"
Perhaps the restock was dispatched before July 19th. Either way, if backers fall behind retail restocks in priority, I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

Well, Ninja Division should start shipping to US backers imminently.

Be sure to report any fulfillments here!

PomWallaby wrote:
19th July update,
"We are not selling to retailers at the moment for 4-6 weeks, whilst we fulfil KS shipments"
Perhaps the restock was dispatched before July 19th. Either way, if backers fall behind retail restocks in priority, I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

Of course those restocks were payd in January or February, no worries.
Of course it's possible, they have their HQ in orbit, speeding with enough km/h to, according to Einstein, have allready passed those weeks. It's just us chumps down on earth who live by normal space-time who don't get it.
Just remember, Prodos is communicative, truthfull, friendly, determinded to fulfill to backers and all around good and nice guys who can't do no wrong.
End of sarcasm.

November 2014,
"The Board Game will ship to retailers at the same time as Kickstarter backers. This might mean that you get your copy a few days before your FLGS or perhaps a few days after, but we intend to make sure wherever we can that Kickstarter backers get theirs first."

Happy that Ninja Division are handling things across the pond. IMO they did a good job shipping SDE.

PomWallaby wrote:
November 2014,
"The Board Game will ship to retailers at the same time as Kickstarter backers. This might mean that you get your copy a few days before your FLGS or perhaps a few days after, but we intend to make sure wherever we can that Kickstarter backers get theirs first."

Shipping re-stock to retailers before backers get theirs is a bit different though...

The fact they are already restocking retailers well before KS backers have their stuff shipping seems to negate that 'at the same time' phrase. For feths sake, they are fulfilling new orders from their OWN damned web store before fulfilling KS backers.

PomWallaby wrote:
November 2014,
"The Board Game will ship to retailers at the same time as Kickstarter backers. This might mean that you get your copy a few days before your FLGS or perhaps a few days after, but we intend to make sure wherever we can that Kickstarter backers get theirs first."

Happy that Ninja Division are handling things across the pond. IMO they did a good job shipping SDE.

A few days would have been much better, than a few months... hopefully Ninja Division are able to get the North American ball rolling...

Just watched another playthrough.

God, these rules are terrible.

The environmental effects and door mechanics are junk, Marines die too easily, Preds are waaaayyyy OP, and so on and so on...

Seriously considering getting Genesha Games' "Swatters" ruleset to play this with. Sounds miles better while being 10x less complicated.

I 'think' Swatters is a bit larger scale though, with fire team bases and not single figures for the most part.

I may be wrong though...

On Board Game Geek there are free rules for a game called 'Bug Hunt' based on the Aliens movies, and Victory Point Games has 'Forlorn Hope' which would be pretty good for these figures (you would have to use tiles made for the larger scale figures as opposed to the map the game comes with.

Two Hour Wargames has rules that would work with the figures as well. There are more rules sets out there too.

Thanks Cpt!

I think Swatters could work for those of us who ordered a lot of product though.

In fairness, Marines are pretty squishy in pretty much all the fluff lol. Not sure what you're expecting Alex.

Does anyone know what Prodos are like FAQs and Errata-wise? Good/bad?

 angelofvengeance wrote:
In fairness, Marines are pretty squishy in pretty much all the fluff lol. Not sure what you're expecting Alex.

Does anyone know what Prodos are like FAQs and Errata-wise? Good/bad?

I was expecting a game where the Marine player isn't out of the game by turn 2 and has to sit there watching the Alien and Pred players having fun.

Any playthroughs I've seen have had the Marine player out of the game before he can really do anything.

It might be fluffy, but makes for a poor game experience.

I will certainly give the RAW a try, but am looking at other options too.

 Alex C wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
In fairness, Marines are pretty squishy in pretty much all the fluff lol. Not sure what you're expecting Alex.

Does anyone know what Prodos are like FAQs and Errata-wise? Good/bad?

I was expecting a game where the Marine player isn't out of the game by turn 2 and has to sit there watching the Alien and Pred players having fun.

Any playthroughs I've seen have had the Marine player out of the game before he can really do anything.

It might be fluffy, but makes for a poor game experience.

I will certainly give the RAW a try, but am looking at other options too.

I think things can be modded to work. I'm thinking one pred not three for example. I also think that there is great potential for some interesting match ups. I can see a scenario where the pred needs to "save" the marines, so that he can get the trophy's he needs to get his objective. All in all, humans are at a disadvantage here, it is a horror based action game after all. I wouldn't like to be out in the first couple rounds, but at the same time, its not realistic to go toe to toe with xeno's. I really want to try the rules and scenarios first, before I start making changes. Every new rule set takes a while to get the hang of, so I'm not too fussed by the play throughs. Its obvious that for most of them its their first time through it. I'd like to see some veterans do a play through, with insightful tips and advice on game play. I can see the appeal of Angry Joe, but its not my cup of tea. I work with trades guys and play in a rock band, and still found his cursing to be excessive. I'm also pretty sure those fellas were feeling no pain, Not to take anything away from it, there was definitely some issues with the rules and the layout is terrible. Speaking of which, does anyone have a decent rules reference?

Star Crusade.
Was good in the late 80s, is good now - naw, just kidding.

I'd say, one to three plays to locate the bugs and then stomp them - pun intended.

 Dark Severance wrote:
To be fair UK backers had access to AvP at Cons before US backers. Although I do understand that you feel you shouldn't have to go pick them up, that however is a choice. It was available sooner and the choice was to wait for it delivered. Granted if you weren't going to any of those cons the given choice is to wait.

It isn't much of a choice at all, to be fair. I dropped £150+ onto AvP, why should I then pay another £75 in transport costs to travel from Manchester down to London, then other costs AND travel time to pick up a game that I paid for two years ago? It's unreasonable of Prodos to ship out restocks, while people who paid to get this whole idea off the ground in the first place, are left waiting for their stuff.

I managed to get a refund of my money earlier this year from Paypal, I contacted Prodos via facebook, kickstarter, e-mail and I never got anything back. I told them about my Paypal action, so I gave them chance and I still didn't get anything. Everything about Prodos screams dodgy as hell.

 stubacca wrote:
To be fair UK backers had access to AvP at Cons before US backers.

Agreed, in fact this was the 1st time in several years I didn't go to Expo. 700 Uk backers after only 50 copies, I didn't fancy my chances. A friend went but I didn't want him put out lugging the box around. Ultimately I thought picking up from Expo was a bit of a gimmick as we were expecting the game to be dispatched shortly after.

PomWallaby wrote:

 stubacca wrote:
To be fair UK backers had access to AvP at Cons before US backers.

Agreed, in fact this was the 1st time in several years I didn't go to Expo. 700 Uk backers after only 50 copies, I didn't fancy my chances. A friend went but I didn't want him put out lugging the box around. Ultimately I thought picking up from Expo was a bit of a gimmick as we were expecting the game to be dispatched shortly after.

ah, man. I derped and misquoted you by accident, sorry!

Some dude earlier said it was a choice that UK backers didn't pick it up at a con but, as you said, 700 compared to 50 + the expense of getting down to London. It wasn't much of a choice

Well I have received a shipping notification from Prodos for my Kickstarter order. Let see if it's as swift as buying direct from them.

More than happy to eat humble pie as and when it arrives.

Although I have updated my complaint with his, until this Kickstarter is actually delivered in full, it'll remain open as a watching brief.