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Game 4. http://vectdoes.blogspot.com/2014/11/11th-company-game-4.html

OrdoSean wrote:
Game 4. http://vectdoes.blogspot.com/2014/11/11th-company-game-4.html

Thanks for posting that! Very interesting reading.

Monday after next I am taking on the guys at Dropzone games for a 6000pt Tyranid Invasion...Ill be bringing my entire force against the imperium and hope to get it suitably batreped.

We're working on the fluffiness for the mission, but Ill have first turn and hope to make the most out of that Heirophant's bioplasma torrent.

I batrepped a 2nd test game with 3 Tyrannocytes: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/823292/thread

Rather than post the whole batrep here, I will just link to it, and offer my take-a-ways.
1) I had 2 VC Tyrannocytes and one Deathspitter. The only friendly fire wound I took all game was an 9" scatter onto the Tyrannocyte itself
2) One Venom Cannon Tyrannocyte took out Ulrik which was big
3) This wasn't a great test with such an unbalanced (gunline) opponent, but fascinatingly he almost beat me.
4) Dakkafex in pod = awesome

So I tried a few games with Drop pods, 5 Drop pods, I did 4 games on the same list (Wanted to get a really good feel)

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

Hive Guard x3: Tyrannocyte
Hive Guard x3: Tyrannocyte
Venomthrope x2

T-gants x10
T-gants x10
Warriors x3
Ripper x3 DeepStrike

Dakkafex: Tyrannocyte
Dakkafex: Tyrannocyte
Dakkafex: Tyrannocyte

Wall: Coms Relay


Over all, I did really well, played against 2 Space Wovles, Won 1 lost the other, (the one I los was a really lcose and good game, I tabled the other) the one I tabled was a Mech list, Lots of like vehicles. play IG won (Did really well witht he Fexes) the Final was again a 30k army, not to familur with with and I feel Idid really well, had alot of T5/6/7 MC with alot of shooting.


Text week I will do 4 Pods and 2 of the Sporocytes with more fliers and see how it goes.

WD fluff for the Maleceptor is "previously unencountered Maleceptor, a psychic monstrosity more than capable of dealing with human psykers." While yes the unit over all is a let down, Overload as a focused Witchfire power in side SITW might almost reflect this, since the it would be the target psychers leadership.

Hmmm, that brings up a YMDC question, might have found a way to make playable.

barnowl wrote:
WD fluff for the Maleceptor is "previously unencountered Maleceptor, a psychic monstrosity more than capable of dealing with human psykers." While yes the unit over all is a let down, Overload as a focused Witchfire power in side SITW might almost reflect this, since the it would be the target psychers leadership.

Hmmm, that brings up a YMDC question, might have found a way to make playable.

You take the highest leadership for the unit.

So in Order to take a Wound off of a Librarian that is joined to a standard tac squad, you need to manifest, which will be difficult. Your opponent might be able to deny because of their denial bonus for having a psycher in the unit. Then, you've got a pretty good chance of perils if you threw enough dice at it to make it go off and precision shot, and not get denied, so you are generally going to take a wound. Then, you roll to hit, and will miss 50% of the time. Then they have to fail their leadership. With Leadership 8 that will happen 74% of the time. Then they get to make a 2+ LOS. so they fail that 16.67% of the time. So basically, your odds of sniping out a space marine librarian if you throw 11+ psychic dice at it are about 6%, and your odds of taking a wound yourself are about 60%.

I'm sorry my friend, but the Maleceptor is the worst model available to any codex, and no amount of spinning that is going to make it better.

Really, one almost thinks that the Maleceptor is supposed to fire 3 shots automatically and not at additional warp cost.

tag8833 wrote:

barnowl wrote:
WD fluff for the Maleceptor is "previously unencountered Maleceptor, a psychic monstrosity more than capable of dealing with human psykers." While yes the unit over all is a let down, Overload as a focused Witchfire power in side SITW might almost reflect this, since the it would be the target psychers leadership.

Hmmm, that brings up a YMDC question, might have found a way to make playable.

You take the highest leadership for the unit.

So in Order to take a Wound off of a Librarian that is joined to a standard tac squad, you need to manifest, which will be difficult. Your opponent might be able to deny because of their denial bonus for having a psycher in the unit. Then, you've got a pretty good chance of perils if you threw enough dice at it to make it go off and precision shot, and not get denied, so you are generally going to take a wound. Then, you roll to hit, and will miss 50% of the time. Then they have to fail their leadership. With Leadership 8 that will happen 74% of the time. Then they get to make a 2+ LOS. so they fail that 16.67% of the time. So basically, your odds of sniping out a space marine librarian if you throw 11+ psychic dice at it are about 6%, and your odds of taking a wound yourself are about 60%.

I'm sorry my friend, but the Maleceptor is the worst model available to any codex, and no amount of spinning that is going to make it better.

That is what the YMDC is about, since it is targeted witchfire, would it be the squad or the target models LD. Shreik is always the highest since it targets the Unit as a whole, but Overload only targets a model. And yes the model is bad, just wondering if it atleast pulls fluff.

barnowl wrote:
That is what the YMDC is about, since it is targeted witchfire, would it be the squad or the target models LD. Shreik is always the highest since it targets the Unit as a whole, but Overload only targets a model. And yes the model is bad, just wondering if it atleast pulls fluff.

You are correct.

Focus Witchfire: ... If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead.

It forces a leadership check on a model instead of a unit. That isn't a big difference but it is something.

It had so much potential though... it's so disappointing when a beautiful model just can't pull it together :(

I came up with some custom rules for the Maleceptor to show what could have been done with it (added a little fluff too). Such a wasted opportunity. Maybe one day it, the Pyrovore and the Haruspex will get the overhaul they need.

The Maleceptor is a terrifying Tyranid organism rarely seen on the battlefield and is believed to be created only when the Tyranid invasion faces resistance from powerful enemy Psykers. Space Marines of the Grey Knights chapter also reported creatures similar to the Maleceptor on the devoured world of Shadowbrink when the Tyranids faced a Daemonic legion, but these reports are impossible to verify following the destruction of that world. The Maleceptor is a large quadrupedal organism with a bloated armoured torso housing six additional brains which amplify the effects of the Shadow in the Warp to unbearable levels rendering he use of otherworldly powers even more difficult and dangerous. Mortal Psykers have taken their own lives rather than endure the presence of a Maleceptor on the battlefield, and psychically-sensitive races such as the Eldar struggle to remain conscious when facing this monster. Even more fearsome, the six sub-brains within the Maleceptor possess a malign instinct to directly assault enemy Psykers, and ethereal tendrils of power reach out from the Maleceptor to shred the minds of any Psykers within reach. So preoccupied are these poor victims with simply holding onto their sanity under the Shadow that they are powerless to deflect the alien's lethal mental assault.

Maleceptor: 205 points
Brood: 1 Monstrous Creature
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
3 3 5 6 6 3 3 10 4+
Weapons: Scything Talons

Special Rules:

Synapse Creature
Shadow in the Warp
Psyker (Mastery Level 2)
Psychic Powers: A Maleceptor always knows the Psychic Overload power (see below) and generates one other power from the Powers of the Hive Mind.

Warp Shield: The Maleceptor is protected by psychic barriers similar to those of a Zoanthrope, and has a 3+ Invulnerable save.

Manifest Shadow: A Maleceptor's Shadow in the Warp special rule affects all enemy units within 24", rather than the usual 12". Additionally, enemy units with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers of Daemon special rule trying to Deny the Witch against any Psychic Power cast by a Maleceptor can only successfully Deny the Witch on a 6+, regardless of any other modifiers that would normally be applied.

Psychic Overload (Warp Charge 2): Psychic Overload is a Malediction with a range of 24". The target unit must take a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed the unit suffers a number of wounds equal to the number the Leadership test was failed by, with no armour or cover saves allowed. Vehicles are treated as having Leadership 10, and if a vehicle fails this test then it instead suffers a Glancing Hit with no cover saves allowed.



The idea is a) to boost the survivability of the Maleceptor by increasing its Invulnerable save to something more appropriate considering its cost and then b) to really home in on the anti-Psyker concept by combining the effects of the -3 Leadership from Shadows with a Leadership-based Malediction that is specifically harder to stop if you are a Psyker or a Daemon. Other targets are still possible, even vehicles, but they are far from optimal making this unit something you really want to use to hunt enemy Psykers.

How do we deal with Drop Pod armies?

Big blobs of gargoyles fully utilizing 2" spacing around your shrouded source and using a bastion (not required) helps, all centered around whatever useful terrain thats on your side of the board. Keeping your tyrants off the table if its going to be a big bang is also smart. I see no reason to give up a free Tyrant to a dedicated drop pod army, let them shoot at something else and arrive in position using your comms relay to nuke the out of place marines on your side of the board.

 Iechine wrote:
Big blobs of gargoyles fully utilizing 2" spacing around your shrouded source and using a bastion (not required) helps, all centered around whatever useful terrain thats on your side of the board. Keeping your tyrants off the table if its going to be a big bang is also smart. I see no reason to give up a free Tyrant to a dedicated drop pod army, let them shoot at something else and arrive in position using your comms relay to nuke the out of place marines on your side of the board.

Yeah I just got slammed by a drop pod army in the last game of a tournament I was on for a top spot if it wasn't for that game, completely played it wrong from the start.

It happens, man. Jy2 posted a batrep where he positioned his army out of place to draw the drop pod army out of position for scoring, and since then I've dominated every single drop pod alpha strike army I've faced. This community really is helpful.

So have a tourney coming up in a month or so that has some unusual rules. One of which is no limit on formations, but no more than one of each. Objectives are Hold Ground which is scored every round so troops are important, Crusade, King of the Hill, Purge the Alien, and the standard secondaries. This is one of the list I am toying with. In the [past I have run troop heavy lists and placed well, but want something different this time.

HQ:
Flyrant w/2xTK Devourers, electroshock 240

Elite: 45
Venomthrope 45

Troops: 310
3X Warriors w/BS,3xRC,3xAG 130
10x Termigaunts 40
10x hormigaunts 50
3x Rippers w/DS 45
3x Rippers w/DS 45

Fast
10x Gargoyles 60

Heavy:485
DakkaFex 150
Tyranofex w/Electroshock 185
Dakkafex 150

LAN: 410
Exocrine 170
3xWarriors w/VC,2xDS 110
3x Biovores 130

Hunting Pack 244
5 genestealers 70
5 genestealers 70
5 Genestealers + BL w/SyT. 134

Fortification
Bunker 55

Some units are obvious in there use. Since I know most of the boards will have ruins and or buildings, the Hunting back will be able to enter from reserve in a much more varied positions. If I can get MoA push the heavy support forward to make people un happy early.

I could use some tactical advice. I'm in a low point game against a tau player running the farsight supplement. So he doesn't have a lot of models but they are pretty resilient. The regular suits I can deal with but the missile-sides are a real pain. I run a FMC heavy list and the skyfire missile-sides really scare me. My opponent hasn't added a riptide yet but it is only a matter of time.

In this situation is it better to play it safe and hop on the ground from cover to cover, or should I take to the air and rush forward with everything to get into CC as fast as possible but risk grounding tests?

Also, in a higher point game should would a neurothrope (with the 2 zoanthropes) in a pod be a good suggestion against Tau Broadsides and Riptides?

 shamroll wrote:
I could use some tactical advice. I'm in a low point game against a tau player running the farsight supplement. So he doesn't have a lot of models but they are pretty resilient. The regular suits I can deal with but the missile-sides are a real pain. I run a FMC heavy list and the skyfire missile-sides really scare me. My opponent hasn't added a riptide yet but it is only a matter of time.

In this situation is it better to play it safe and hop on the ground from cover to cover, or should I take to the air and rush forward with everything to get into CC as fast as possible but risk grounding tests?

Also, in a higher point game should would a neurothrope (with the 2 zoanthropes) in a pod be a good suggestion against Tau Broadsides and Riptides?

Mawloc will hurt these buggers. Breaking up static fire points like that is kind of it's bread and butter.

@Xypt, I like where you went with the Maleceptor but giving a 6W 6T MC a 3++ is going overboard, a 4++ would be fine and increasing the point cost of such a beast to 220-230pts for all that jazz you gave would still make it more than useable.

Riptides can reliably get a 3++ on a faster, cheaper, better shooting platform with a 2+ save.

A 3++ on it is far from game breaking.

barnowl wrote:

 shamroll wrote:
I could use some tactical advice. I'm in a low point game against a tau player running the farsight supplement. So he doesn't have a lot of models but they are pretty resilient. The regular suits I can deal with but the missile-sides are a real pain. I run a FMC heavy list and the skyfire missile-sides really scare me. My opponent hasn't added a riptide yet but it is only a matter of time.

In this situation is it better to play it safe and hop on the ground from cover to cover, or should I take to the air and rush forward with everything to get into CC as fast as possible but risk grounding tests?

Also, in a higher point game should would a neurothrope (with the 2 zoanthropes) in a pod be a good suggestion against Tau Broadsides and Riptides?

Mawloc will hurt these buggers. Breaking up static fire points like that is kind of it's bread and butter.

I didn't considered the Mawloc too but we play with multi-level terrain pieces so my opponent usually puts the broadsides on the 2nd and 3rd floor and the Mawloc can only hit the first. I've haven't had too many good scatter rolls with them either. Running lictors takes care of that but we aren't allowing formations (or fortifications so no comm relay) and 3 individual lictors don't seem like a good fit for my current escalation league. SMS also make short work of lictors. I'll still consider the Mawloc but I haven't fielded them a lot so I'm inexperienced with them.

Just bought a Tyrannocite, is there a generally accepted best loadout for guns for them? =O

barnowl wrote:
So have a tourney coming up in a month or so that has some unusual rules. One of which is no limit on formations, but no more than one of each. Objectives are Hold Ground which is scored every round so troops are important, Crusade, King of the Hill, Purge the Alien, and the standard secondaries. This is one of the list I am toying with. In the [past I have run troop heavy lists and placed well, but want something different this time.

HQ:
Flyrant w/2xTK Devourers, electroshock 240

Elite: 45
Venomthrope 45

Troops: 310
3X Warriors w/BS,3xRC,3xAG 130
10x Termigaunts 40
10x hormigaunts 50
3x Rippers w/DS 45
3x Rippers w/DS 45

Fast
10x Gargoyles 60

Heavy:485
DakkaFex 150
Tyranofex w/Electroshock 185
Dakkafex 150

LAN: 410
Exocrine 170
3xWarriors w/VC,2xDS 110
3x Biovores 130

Hunting Pack 244
5 genestealers 70
5 genestealers 70
5 Genestealers + BL w/SyT. 134

Fortification
Bunker 55

Some units are obvious in there use. Since I know most of the boards will have ruins and or buildings, the Hunting back will be able to enter from reserve in a much more varied positions. If I can get MoA push the heavy support forward to make people un happy early.

I like this list quite a lot. The only thing I'm trying to think of is how to get another Warrior or two into your Troops brood with the CC gear... I have found that with Warriors, a few extra bodies really helps. Is there any way to get 5 in there? Additionally, one Venomthrope is good but two are better - but I don't know where you'd be willing to cut from. I'm a huge fan of Tyrannofexes, so perhaps dropping one Dakkafex in order to bulk out the Warriors? You could get 3 more and the second Venomthrope as well...

Iechine wrote:It happens, man. Jy2 posted a batrep where he positioned his army out of place to draw the drop pod army out of position for scoring, and since then I've dominated every single drop pod alpha strike army I've faced. This community really is helpful.

Yeah that would have been my plan but annoyingly it was kill points.

 shamroll wrote:
I could use some tactical advice. I'm in a low point game against a tau player running the farsight supplement. So he doesn't have a lot of models but they are pretty resilient. The regular suits I can deal with but the missile-sides are a real pain. I run a FMC heavy list and the skyfire missile-sides really scare me. My opponent hasn't added a riptide yet but it is only a matter of time.

In this situation is it better to play it safe and hop on the ground from cover to cover, or should I take to the air and rush forward with everything to get into CC as fast as possible but risk grounding tests?

Also, in a higher point game should would a neurothrope (with the 2 zoanthropes) in a pod be a good suggestion against Tau Broadsides and Riptides?

Would be helpful to know how low points we're taking about here, but some of what I'll say is true regardless:

With farsight, you have a couple options:

1) pump an obscene amount of shots into his unit. Given that a Flyrant will average about 9 wounds, that's not too shabby. Make them take saves, and they'll fail them. It's only 3+ armor, and they are a lot of points per wound

2) ignore his deathstar. Tyranids live in an age of ridiculous mobility. With mawlocs, hive tyrants, and anything you can shove in a drop pod, you can make farsight drop in where you want (away from your objectives) and then re-deploy away from him. Ignoring has never been so easy

As for the rest of the army, Tyranids do lack a good means of AP 2. This is tough against both Riptides and Broadsides. Your best options, in no particular order, are probably to:

1) drown them in wounds. It doesn't feel efficient, but Tyranids have a lot of firepower. Even 2+ saves don't last forever (just ask my Deathwing)

2) get some ranged AP 2. That would mean an exocrine. You can deploy him normally for a 30" threat range (not bad for tyranids) or drop pod him into the backfield for a nasty surprise to those broadsides. Also, if you're not taking the "ignore the deathstar" route, Mawlocs really are awesome. They will decimate even the farsight bomb

3) we do have AP 2 in close combat as well. The Toxicrene is particularly good at throwing out a ton of AP 2 attacks, and it's main weakness (low WS) doesn't matter against tau. In fact, he's a downright machine against their WS2. You can pod him if you're worried about ignores cover and/or the long walk across the board. Also, if you are able to do Forge World, I can tell you with certainty that there is nothing more terrifying to a Tau player than a Dimachaeron, and you can often use the drop pod to put him into the same cover that the broadsides are sitting in after his 6" disembark. So he rocks a 3+ armor and 4+ cover and loves it. Broadsides are much less happy. A turn later and you'll be smiling

Played a test game with my new tyranid armylist (1850):

Flying Hive, devourers, thorax
Flying Hive, devourers, thorax

20 guants
20 guants
1 mucolid spore bomb
1 mucolid spore bomb
1 mucolid spore bomb
1 mucolid spore bomb

3 zoanthropes with neuro-upgrade
1 venomthrope

dakkafex
dakkafex
Mawloc

5x tyrannocyte

Bastion with comm

evaluation:

1: I really like the 20 guants crawling out of the pod. with a 6 inch deployment and a run move you can claim 3 objectives at once if their close. 5 spore pods and 40 guants right in front of the enemy can really block the enemies movement and protect the zoans, flying hives and dakkafexes from getting assaulted. their great for assaulting units on a objective and staying their for the rest of the game.

2: I really want to like the zoanthropes. If the neurothrope does sum "sucking" damage then the can be devastating. But for that you really have to spend enough warp charge to make this happen (without getting blocked) and if you miss (or the pass their 3xd6 test) you got nothing. Maybe iam going to take 2 single zoanthrop's and put each of them in a sporepod. This way you got more warp charge and more tyranid psychic powers on the field. But for 3 zoanthropes with a sporepod you can have another flying hive tyrant with allies. I think I am going for that.

3: Mucolid spore bombs. These guy's can really be annoying for the enemy even when the don't do any damage during the game. For example: I dropped a mawlock at the left flank close to sum wave serpents. behind the mawloc I dropped the 4 spore bombs to make sure the enemies wave serpent cannot turbo boost towards that section without getting assaulted by at least one of these bombs (the right flank are crawling with 40 guants, spore pods and dakkafexes). If iam going for another flying hive then I need these points to get a ripper troop choice (allies) but apart from that I like the "annoying factor". You have to be comfortable with the strategic effect the can have without doing any damage.

4: dakkafexes are awesome.

5: tyrannocytes are also awesome. You got so much MSU, you can use them to block other units, and the can still drift towards objectives. Taking down a wave serpent? dire avengers crawling out will get deathspittered in the face. Even wraithknights are getting wounded at sum point. A wraithknight assaulted a sporepod in cover and got a smash hit in the face! that was fun..

From a purely competitive standpoint, which is the better choice? A Toxicrene or a Screamer Killer Carnifex (Talons, Crushing Claws, Bio-Plasma and Regeneration). Both would be dropped in a Tyrannocyte with Venom Cannons far from the main force with only another Tyrannocyte and its payload of 17 Termagants with Devourers and a Tyranid Prime. A Flyrant would be somewhere but she can't be counted on to do anything but kill enemy flyers and often times enter Ongoing Reserves to get away from flyers so her Syanpse is a maybe at best.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
From a purely competitive standpoint, which is the better choice? A Toxicrene or a Screamer Killer Carnifex (Talons, Crushing Claws, Bio-Plasma and Regeneration). Both would be dropped in a Tyrannocyte with Venom Cannons far from the main force with only another Tyrannocyte and its payload of 17 Termagants with Devourers and a Tyranid Prime. A Flyrant would be somewhere but she can't be counted on to do anything but kill enemy flyers and often times enter Ongoing Reserves to get away from flyers so her Syanpse is a maybe at best.

The Toxicrene and Carnifex are aiming at different targets. A Carnifex with Crushing Claws wants to find a tank or three, while a Toxicrene wants to find elite infantry or enemy Monstrous Creatures. Depends on what you face most commonly I guess. The Toxicrene is probably a little more survivable, and more likely to kill things in the long run.

If you were to go with a CC Carnifex, I wouldn't bother with the Bioplasma or Regeneration on it at any rate. Save yourself 50 points and grab something else.

What are the best weaons/passengers for Tyrannocytes? I'm thinking Deathspitters just to keep costs down but Blassts acn mitigate bad BS somewhat.

I'm contemplating buying a Dimachaeron or two to go in them (already have two Dakkafexen built, just need the arms for FW).