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Amazons would include lizards right?

I think Barbarians/Undead/Amazons is really good initial offering. Diverse aesthetic and appeal.

Oh, just wanted to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing some big creatures from you.

Good to hear.

about modularity: well, the lesser undead shown aren't all that easy to convert (arms would require significant sculpting skills); however, if they had separate heads it'd go quite a ways towards being able to at least not have completely identical models; might it be an option to cast them with heads with a hollow socket for a ball-joint-neck to slot into? could probably still be cast as a single piece (and having the socket slightly big wouldn't be an awful issue!).
Not sure if it's quite realistic but it'd seem like a rather cheap way to have more than enough variety in those buggers without burdening you with too much extra costs - once you get more than nine of them on the table "somewhat similar" starts to be rather less of an issue anyway!

Really happy to see that laser focus - expect as big a first-day pledge from me as I can swing at the moment

 tre manor wrote:


$5K was just an estimate. Even if that is the ideal amount needed to pay myself for the effort and pay for the production as well I won't set the initial funding goal that high. I think that I will make up the difference once the production is paid for. So what I will probably do is set the initial funding goal for as little money as is needed for production and then go from there. I am confident enough in this project to go ahead and pony up the effort to make the figures. Once that is done though it will be up to you guys whether or not the molds get made and the castings get run. So I doubt VERY seriously that the initial goal will be even close to $50,000.00. Though I am optimistic I am also trying to be as realistic as possible and 50K is a BIG pill to swallow even in crowd funding.


Oh I did not feel pushed at all Bolognesus.

The lesser undead will have at least 9 totally unique sculpts, and I am still thinking on whether or not to convert several of those into even more. I guess ti all depends on how the funding goes. And yes they are perfectly compatible with my existing undead. The themes don;t really match but that may be a trivial thign to most.

I am definitely NOT going to get in over my head on this. I would prefer to limit this campaign to Barbarians, Undead, and Amazons but I also want to make the most of any opportunity that arises. That said for now I am going to keep my efforts focused on the original three.

Going for three armies is indeed I think the best way. However I still would like to see a picture of an Empirial, even if their army won't finally be in the Kickstarter. And a picture of a Barbarian as well.
Many thanks Tre! I have no doubt that the final quality of the minis will be supurb!!

 tre manor wrote:
I am definitely NOT going to get in over my head on this. I would prefer to limit this campaign to Barbarians, Undead, and Amazons but I also want to make the most of any opportunity that arises. That said for now I am going to keep my efforts focused on the original three.

As others have said, keeping this reined in sounds wise. However you structure this, I would really make sure that the campaign still feels like a success even if it just barely gets funded and doesn't hit any stretch goals. That was the problem with KS2 (before re-launch); most people were pledging for 10 ranks but there were only a couple available at the funding goal. So if the funding goal is for the starters of three factions, I would definitely not put up any four- or five-faction pledge levels from the get-go! If the campaign does really well and you decide to add more factions as stretch goals, remember that you can always add new pledge levels down the line to cover this (continuously adding bigger and bigger pledge levels is how Stonehaven have run their three pretty successful campaigns).

A couple of other things I thought of, just throwing things out there:

* I will be in for as much as I can afford on this, but I would also not forget the guys and gals who might be only interested in a mini or two, and have no interest in the game or collecting complete factions. So I definitely think it might be worth it to have a low pledge that can allow people to just pick up for example one of the undead and a barbarian or whatever.

* The skirmish game rules. If you're thinking of launching this already within a couple of months and are still thinking of the game in general terms, it seems a bit premature to include a physical book in the pledge levels (I'm thinking it would be sad if printing ended up delaying everything). Are you thinking pdf rules only for this KS, or will this even be only for the minis?

* I think you may have said you don't want to do this, but have you considered including any of your existing miniatures as optional add-ons (I'm thinking mostly of your more general stuff like the lesser undead and dire wolves)? I'm thinking it could be a way to broaden the options, tempt a few more people in, and at least for me it feels better overpledging slightly for a future stretch goal if I can justify it with a "well, I can always get another bunch of zombies if we never manage to reach that goal".

Three factions. Not five.

Limit modularity to headswaps. Make it easier by using convex ball-type neck joints on unarmoured models or space marine-type concave neck joints on armoured figures. Use collars, etc to hide the joins. If you do "plug-in" weapons, then allow for swaps there. Or do what Andy from Heresy did with Boris:


No more is needed for a smallish game in metal if you have enough sculpts, and overly-modular metal figures are a fething painful nightmare to assemble.

Make it a fast, small, tight campaign. Deliver fully, then go again. Rebuild that rep.

If you're totally in love with showing off the fourth and fifth factions, do so by releasing only 1 or 2 figures per faction as "Special Teaser" figures - like Dreamforge did with the Shadowkesh handler.

Don't make them exclusive, though - at this stage it's probably a squandering of resources. Make them a "special preview" instead - they'd still be available months ahead of the rest of their ranges anyway.

Tre it may be worth you checking out Anvil industys first ks. He too was launching a new game but did a smaller limited kickstaryer to fund the first two pledges with an extra vanguard pledge which will give you more figures six months down the line with the option to play the beta rules. All be for the main ks starts later this year

5 factions, not 3.

And if not 5, 4.

3 just doesn't 'feel right' or 'make sense'.

All of that is, of course, completely up to Tre and what he feels he can do - just stating my personal preferences!

Yeh I am decided that this campaign will be strictly limited to 3 factions and only what I have sculpted when it is ready to launch. 3 factions means I can get it all ready faster and produced and delivered faster as well. THEN I can move on to factions 4 -6.


And for now I am going to just produce single piece non modular castings just to get the ball rolling. If demand is jut overwhelming for the game then I can always produce a set of modulars thereafter. The undead will be cast in a single piece but I will produce a conversion how to guide on the web site showing how to switch their heads around. I think that the best way to fund the undead is to fund two sets of 6 unique figures. The starter will contain the first 6 and then there will be an expansion to fund the second 6 booster.

yes there will be rules with this first KS but not an actual book. That will not come until the rules have been thoroughly play tested and refined. I want to print a small foldout sheet of the quickstart rules to go in with the faction starters though, but my first and foremost goal is deliver in a relatively short period of time.

backers will be able to buy the faction starters or buy a la carte, but the " rank sets " won't break up. Meaning you will be able to buy one Barbarian Hero or one Amazon Priestess or one set of Barbarian warrior minions or one set of Lizardmen warrior minions but not one Lizardman man warrior minion or one barbarian warrior minion. One lesson I learned in fulfilling KS 2 is that keeping the fulfillment simple is the best way to make sure it runs well and deliverd quickly.

I will have one pledge level per faction starter, and one pledge level for each combination of the three starter sets. I do nto think I will have pledge levels for full army sets as I won;t really have anyway to predict what that will hold until the end of the campaign. You will be able to add to your pledge though so you will be able to add additional sets of minions or additional heroes as you please.

Adding in a few previews of the other factions sounds like a good idea. I will think on that a bit. I do not think I will preview any of them until i am ready to fund them though. I think it would be wise to keep a little somethign up my sleeve so-to-speak.

Big BEasties. Yeh that is a big focus of the entire game idea!

I am also working on a special KS exclusive figure as well though but it is still just an idea at this point.

So this campaign will be for 3 factions and each faction will have:

1) One Hero
2) One set of minions/troops
3) One Big Monster

And then options for more within each category if funding goes high enough?

The starters will be;

mage
melee minions
support minions ( archers, javlineers, acolytes etc. )

Then the stretch goals will proceed as;
Hero
big beastie
Alt Hero
alt support minions
alt melee minions ( sp. weapon or ability type )

So are we down to 3 starting factions? That should be a bit easier pill to swallow.

What were the beasties going to be cast in? I can't remember and I'm feeling mighty lethargic and am unable to go back and check.

And any time you want to share pictures of those beasties, by all means, please do!

 tre manor wrote:


Yeh I am decided that this campaign will be strictly limited to 3 factions and only what I have sculpted when it is ready to launch. 3 factions means I can get it all ready faster and produced and delivered faster as well. THEN I can move on to factions 4 -6.


And for now I am going to just produce single piece non modular castings just to get the ball rolling. If demand is jut overwhelming for the game then I can always produce a set of modulars thereafter. The undead will be cast in a single piece but I will produce a conversion how to guide on the web site showing how to switch their heads around. I think that the best way to fund the undead is to fund two sets of 6 unique figures. The starter will contain the first 6 and then there will be an expansion to fund the second 6 booster.

yes there will be rules with this first KS but not an actual book. That will not come until the rules have been thoroughly play tested and refined. I want to print a small foldout sheet of the quickstart rules to go in with the faction starters though, but my first and foremost goal is deliver in a relatively short period of time.

backers will be able to buy the faction starters or buy a la carte, but the " rank sets " won't break up. Meaning you will be able to buy one Barbarian Hero or one Amazon Priestess or one set of Barbarian warrior minions or one set of Lizardmen warrior minions but not one Lizardman man warrior minion or one barbarian warrior minion. One lesson I learned in fulfilling KS 2 is that keeping the fulfillment simple is the best way to make sure it runs well and deliverd quickly.

I will have one pledge level per faction starter, and one pledge level for each combination of the three starter sets. I do nto think I will have pledge levels for full army sets as I won;t really have anyway to predict what that will hold until the end of the campaign. You will be able to add to your pledge though so you will be able to add additional sets of minions or additional heroes as you please.

Adding in a few previews of the other factions sounds like a good idea. I will think on that a bit. I do not think I will preview any of them until i am ready to fund them though. I think it would be wise to keep a little somethign up my sleeve so-to-speak.

Big BEasties. Yeh that is a big focus of the entire game idea!

I am also working on a special KS exclusive figure as well though but it is still just an idea at this point.

I really like the approach you are taking with this kickstarter. There have been far to many that blow up in size with the "base line" pledge of at least $100 or $150, and with a very complicated system of pledge levels. Keeping the pledge levels simple with a one pledge for one starter, one for two and one for all three sounds like a good plan. Some sort of small goodie for the pledgers like a exclusive miniature is a nice idea. Maybe included for the bigger pledges, and available as an add-on for the rest?

I can't imagine the pledge being much less than $100 - $150 if you want all 3 factions though...

I'm glad your thinking this through before starting the KS. I'm ready to pledge anytime your ready to start.

Thanks Ken.

Beasties will probably be cast in resin. Plastic would drag out production and delay fulfillment and mean a VERY high funding goal which woudl seriously disrupt the plan.

I'm OK with that - I rather like resin miniatures...

 tre manor wrote:
And for now I am going to just produce single piece non modular castings just to get the ball rolling. If demand is jut overwhelming for the game then I can always produce a set of modulars thereafter. The undead will be cast in a single piece but I will produce a conversion how to guide on the web site showing how to switch their heads around.

Ah, bummer about the modularity- that's really what I was after, but I understand that with your very detailed sculpts it might not be easy to make things modular. Collars, as mentioned, could do it (or gauntlets for hands).

I don't get the last sentence above, though... I thought the small figures were being cast in metal? Are they going to be resin instead, like the bigger models? Obviously, cutting off a resin head is Much easier than cutting off a metal one but most folks won't do it to either...

Big creatures resin, normal infantry metal is what I'm hearing?

Resin sounds good to me.

Would I be amiss in thinking a single warband would run around 40- 75 or so?

Resin beasties. Sign me up!

Yes, but I'm saying if the normal models are metal, 99+% of people won't be cutting off and swapping heads anytime soon!

Not that it's a huge issue, but it means without sculpting for modularity, the number of sculpts are the number of different models people will have access to, and likely want to use.

Getting the undead from the previous campaign re-cast in metal may help with adding variety.

 RiTides wrote:
Yes, but I'm saying if the normal models are metal, 99+% of people won't be cutting off and swapping heads anytime soon!

Not that it's a huge issue, but it means without sculpting for modularity, the number of sculpts are the number of different models people will have access to, and likely want to use.

Getting the undead from the previous campaign re-cast in metal may help with adding variety.

Tre cast the walking dead in metal prior to producing them in Trollcast.

Perfect, then just offering those as well would be much better than getting people to try to chop heads off of metal miniatures, imo

 tre manor wrote:

Adding in a few previews of the other factions sounds like a good idea. I will think on that a bit. I do not think I will preview any of them until i am ready to fund them though. I think it would be wise to keep a little somethign up my sleeve so-to-speak.

That's fine. My point is that if you decide that you must use the 4th+ factions in this, a "teaser" figure is something to generate interest "hey, I really liked Tre's Glormige preview figure, I can't wait for more" Like Mark/DFG's Shadowkesh teaser is a much better idea than splitting the customer base 4-5 ways.

 Alpharius wrote:
5 factions, not 3.
And if not 5, 4.
3 just doesn't 'feel right' or 'make sense'.

For an introductory game, 3 makes great sense. Let's say you have a friend and you're both somewhat interested in starting a new game that's coming out, but it only has two factions. If you like the Barbarians but he has no interest in Undead or vice versa then you're SOL. A third faction gives you both more choice, (assuming you don't want to play hot barbarian-on-barbarian action) while keeping the initial offering small and manageable for Tre - bearing in mind the bugbear that fulfilment has been for RBG's campaigns and the resulting reputation fallout. It's also small enough that the RBG diehards can afford to go completionist - and then again in the next campaign.

Big BEasties. Yeh that is a big focus of the entire game idea!
I am also working on a special KS exclusive figure as well though but it is still just an idea at this point.

Just be careful with that. Exclusives can be a double-edged sword, and funds that go towards exclusives really don't grow the line, while simply adding to production costs for one-use models. You're not CMON or GW, so think about whether they're needed for the long-term of the game. If you're really keen on an exclusive, think about perhaps making it a variant figure of a character/monster/whatever that will be in the actual line - maybe with an exclusive variant head/cloak/weapon so that you can still use the figure and main mould down the line. How many castings do you get out of the life of one mould?

Maybe make the "complete variant" version KS exclusive followed by webstore/promo exclusive for the life of one mould. When it gets remade, the extra exclusive parts (weapons, heads/cloak/whatever) will be gone. Make that clear during the campaign and you still have a useful figure for the long-term, as well as for promos/cons/webstore/etc. Hell, supply them with a hand-signed certificate (cost: 1 $5 ream of printer paper, some ink/toner - much, much cheaper if you have a laserjet printer, and if you don't, buy one for $200 and save a fortune long term.)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
I can't imagine the pledge being much less than $100 - $150 if you want all 3 factions though...

Yeah, but $100-150 is a lot more affordable and accessible than $200-300.

How am I not subscribed to this thread? I am very interested indeed!

There's always the danger of "KanScipio Syndrome" in these threads - you know, where someone's opinion is just inherently right, no matter what...

Anyway - just launch this thing already!

And I agree that if you are only launching 3 factions, a 'one off teaser' figure from a fourth faction is a great idea!

Yeah a teaser is better than a kickstarter exclusive!

Referring back to the mention of DFG, a teaser that is the KS exclusive can be very nice: the Shdowkesh Feral Handler both serves to give the KS backer something they can't otherwise have and to introduce the wider universe.

Plus, something like that, a variant sculpt for a unit that will eventually be made, isn't like a unique hero: when there is a completely unique KS sculpt that can't reasonably be replaced, that I think leads to hurt feelings. People don't like knowing that they have forever missed out on something cool and there is no way to get something similar.

 Alpharius wrote:
There's always the danger of "KanScipio Syndrome" in these threads - you know, where someone's opinion is just inherently right, no matter what...

Anyway - just launch this thing already!

And I agree that if you are only launching 3 factions, a 'one off teaser' figure from a fourth faction is a great idea!

You're right. We should just express an opinion without adding reasoning. It also makes for a much richer discussion that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Referring back to the mention of DFG, a teaser that is the KS exclusive can be very nice: the Shdowkesh Feral Handler both serves to give the KS backer something they can't otherwise have and to introduce the wider universe.

Plus, something like that, a variant sculpt for a unit that will eventually be made, isn't like a unique hero: when there is a completely unique KS sculpt that can't reasonably be replaced, that I think leads to hurt feelings. People don't like knowing that they have forever missed out on something cool and there is no way to get something similar.

The reason I'm suggesting that a full unique figure as an exclusive is a less attractive idea compared to unique-exclusive variant parts on a modular figure is simply because RBG tends to fund on the lower end of minis KS, and the cost of making a "proper" exclusive (especially with 3 factions on the table) might not really pay for itself in the same way that something that can continue to be used and sold would - and I'm not sure RBG can really afford the time and effort to spend on loss leaders in their present situation.

 Azazelx wrote:
...and I'm not sure RBG can really afford the time and effort to spend on loss leaders in their present situation.

His present situation. It is worth remembering that like some other boutique miniatures companies, RBG is a one man show (Not to diminish periodic assistance offered by spouse/friends/etc.). No offense intended, Azazelx, this is just a handy opportunity to discuss something that I think is important.

The fact that RBG is a one man shop is important to keep in mind because, as with other artist-operated boutique miniatures companies, it can be easy to overlook. It takes a ton of hard work to bring a miniature from concept to your front door, all of it driven by an individual. The fantastic thing about these companies is that you get a wonderful opportunity to have substantive first hand interaction with the artist creating the pieces you love. You also get to know that you are supporting the artist directly by supporting the company. These are both fantastic perks of doing business with companies like RBG. You get a chance to make an investment, not only in a wonderful piece of artwork, but also in the creator of that work of art.

I buy a lot of stuff from RBG for which I don't necessarily have a particular use in mind at the time, not really from a desire to collect (which I have never much felt for anything), but because supporting the work available today has a very real and very direct impact on artwork that does not yet exist. I want to see that work. I want to see it come to life.

Tre seems to work very hard on RBG, and his efforts from sculpting to packing orders have produced not only beautiful pieces of artwork, but also top of the line finished products. His pieces capture the imagination, and I for one am always excited to see what he is working on next. It is also equally exciting to see how many other people enjoy Tre's work, because it shows that his hard work and commitment to quality and honesty are being rewarded.

Anyhow, that's enough touchy feely rambling from me. In general, I heartily encourage folks to keep in mind the nature of any business they are supporting. There is a ton of really amazing work being done in the table top miniatures industry today. There are a lot of products out there, but at the end of the day, this industry is really small, and consumers like us can have a significant impact on how it grows and develops, even on an individual level.