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So Andilius, how have are the Skyclaws doing?

 Anpu42 wrote:
So Andilius, how have are the Skyclaws doing?

this^^

They're okay, more of a suicide unit than anything though. With a bit of luck, they might nuke a vehicle (I got lucky last game and took out a Razorback turn 1, both meltas hit). More often, they'll be a super-cheap bullet sponge or an objective grabber, which works well in my threat-overload strategy. They're super lacklustre in combat though, I'd avoid that option unless you were desperate to tarpit a unit because they probably won't be able to kill them... not with only 5 unsupported models in the unit anyway.

So yeah, they're an okay unit, but I'm going to switch out for Iron Priests because it'll improve my TWC squads and give me a bit more focus.

TWC are not good. Priests on TWMs with Cyberwolves are good.

If you want to run that style of Wolf Death Star ironically the best way of doing it is with a Ravenwing Command Squad

The TWC lists never really struck me as being that good. They seem very lackluster compared to melta pod spam. Also, pure SW are never going to beat competitive cron, eldar and daemon lists. You need to take advantage of battle brothers, especially with pods being fast attack. Grav cents weakness is they're slow to get where you want them. A fast attack pod fixes this problem. Pod them in somewhere safe and start blasting away. Use the GH squads to camp objectives and draw some fire away from your cents. Stormfang is good anti air and anti infantry with that giant pie plate of doom.

The biggest issue with TWC lists is a similar issue with GK in that you just do not have a lot of models and 3+ or 3++ is only so good

That's why you take TWC and other units to supplement them and draw fire. Either the opponent focuses on the TWC while you capture objectives, or your TWC rip through vulnerable units.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
That's why you take TWC and other units to supplement them and draw fire. Either the opponent focuses on the TWC while you capture objectives, or your TWC rip through vulnerable units.

Exactly this.
I think the best friend of TWC with the Champions of Fenris are either Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard in Drop Pods.

what is a high fire power wolf guard load out?

Wolf guard aren't worth the points except as squad leaders to carry that extra melta shot. They're no more durable than GH and cost twice as much. Using TWC with GH support implies building a "balanced", well rounded army. This sounds good on paper but fails hard in 7th where you mostly come up against spam lists that focus on one thing. Also, if you go that route you probably want rhinos. Using a couple GH squads in pods doesn't give you enough turn 1 pods to have a strong alpha strike. Then you run into an issue of rhinos just not being very good and getting destroyed or immobilized before they can get their cargo across the board. Trust me, I've tried all these lists. If you want to be competitive, melta pod spam with grav cents is the way to go. Really the only debate is whether to run 2 squads of grav cents with a librarian using sentinels of terra or 1 squad of grav cents, tigurius and a stormfang using ultramarines tactics. These are the 2 lists I've settled on after experimenting with just about everything else. I even tried out scouts, deep striking WG TDA, TDA in a land raider, TWC, iron priest TWC, blood claws, ven dreads and Bjorn.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:
I am yet to see a competitive space wolves list. Every time i watch a game it gets either whooped or they lose but its a close game.

Same here. I have not seen a Space Wolves army win with the current Codex. Haven't seen too many games, but it's always very close.

I just played drop pod wolves in a team tournament, and my partner and I tabled all three opponents. Space wolves are a solid army, I just think they fell out of favor and a lot of players moved on. The new codex nerfs a few things, sure, but you also now have a better rounded army. For one, you have actual anti-air. Ally in a Knight to go with it and you've got a pretty nasty army.

Is there a way to build a top tier SW army without ally?

Makumba wrote:
Is there a way to build a top tier SW army without ally?

Im curious to this also, everyone states they do so good with them, but never posts there lists, i am a purist, so id love nothing more then not having to ally,

also

whats the cent star load out you would take for wolves?

Toofast wrote:
Wolf guard aren't worth the points except as squad leaders to carry that extra melta shot. They're no more durable than GH and cost twice as much.

Grey Hunters are 9 points a piece???
You must be thinking of Wolf Guard Terminators.
Champions of Fenris Wolf Guard are actually very good for their price.
Grey Hunters are 175, toss in 2 Plasma Guns for 205.
10 Power Armored Wolf Guard on a Pod is 225 points bare bones., with a Pair of Comb-Plasmas is 245 and have the same affect, but once you get into Melee you are hitting on 3+ most of the time.
You can get 5 Power Armored Wolf Guard in a Pod with Combi-Weapons for under Two Hundred points and then if you get a chance to Assault you are hitting most Armies on a 3+. Toss in a hidden Power Fist just for MCs for 200
Toss in Ragnar or Arjac to give them something to soak up wounds.
9 Power Armored Wolf Guard in a Pod with 1 Pod with Ragnar [or the Wolf Lord of your choice with the Wulfen Stone] and each one will be putting our 5x WS5 S5 [4x S4 on a Counter Attack] Attack for under 400 points.

Where get really expensive I when you start adding all of the fancy stuff. You keep them simple and Cheap and they can do a lot.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ragnar with his two Wolves, 10 Power Armored Wolf Guard and a Stormwolf/LRC [under 600] will also allow you to Assault out of your vehicle.

in terms of cost for effectiveness
wouldn't ragnar be more effective in a storm wolf with 15 blood claws, if were talking in terms of assaulting , there will be way more attacks

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Is there a way to build a top tier SW army without ally?

Im curious to this also, everyone states they do so good with them, but never posts there lists, i am a purist, so id love nothing more then not having to ally,

At said tournament, I ran a Thunderwolf Lord with 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, two 10-man Grey Hunter squads with two meltas in pods, and 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with all combi-melta. My partner ran Tigirius, 9 Sternguard in a pod, two 10-man Tactical squads in pods, and a Sicarian. We tabled all three opponents.

Space Wolves don't need allies anymore, their main weakness had been anti-air, but their new fliers cover that pretty well. It's just that an Imperial Knight makes literally any list better. So you don't need it, but allies are always useful.

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:

whats the cent star load out you would take for wolves?

Grav cannons are the only Centurion load out anyone ever runs. Hurricane Bolters vs Missile Launchers is mostly just about how many points you have left over.

i would have no issue running a knight (despite the fact that i am a purist) due to the fact that the conversion possibilities to make it wolf like would be a fun project.

What do you run when your not doing doubles though, and how does it do? also , what armies were you playing against that you tabled.

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:
in terms of cost for effectiveness
wouldn't ragnar be more effective in a storm wolf with 15 blood claws, if were talking in terms of assaulting , there will be way more attacks

Depends on what you are fighting and if # of Attacks are more important than Hitting and being Hit.
Vs WS3 Blood Claws Hit on a 4+ and are hit on a 4+ and CoF Wolf Guard Hit on a 3+ and are Hit on a 4+
Vs WS4 Blood Claws Hit on a 4+ and are Hit on a 3+ and CoF Wolf Guard Hit on a 3+ and are Hit on a 4+

The best choice actually for Blood Claws are Wolf Priest or Divination Rune Priest to give the Blood Claws Re-Rolls.

 DarkLink wrote:
Space Wolves don't need allies anymore, their main weakness had been anti-air, but their new fliers cover that pretty well. It's just that an Imperial Knight makes literally any list better. So you don't need it, but allies are always useful.

This... it's kind of a problem with 40k right now. Most armies don't exactly need allies, but for the cost of 1 Grey Hunter unit, I could get an entire infantry platoon and a ton of scoring units to maximize efficiency. Allies are basically just there to maximize potential, even if it's not entirely necessary... hence why my meta doesn't look on them all too fondly.

i find in my meta the ally matrix doesn't go by the "maximizing efficiency" idea, it goes by the "abuse the ally matrix" idea.

I've found a swift claws bike squad with melta attack bike and plasma gun add WGBG on bike with hammer/Armor of russ and 2 wolves and Iron Preist with 4 cyber wolves is a great unit. All T5 6 ablative Wolves I evin add a Wolf Preist on a bike occasionally to give FNP(though I hate that it's just 6+) between the High T and Look out sir to the wolves and Jink if needed it's a fast solid and both veryt shootie and stabbie.

I wish the space wolves had a way to give a unit a better fnp(other than biomancy) , everything would be a bit better

I was looking at the Void Claws Formation [again], and was thinking about the Spearhead Strike Rule....It looks to be legal to shove them in a Drop Pod.

Opinions?

I get the same impression Anpu, Why would you want to though?

i guess because the way the drop pods scatter works is more reliable. That to me seems like its a waste of a pod though. Id love to see where your head is at with this one?

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:
I get the same impression Anpu, Why would you want to though?

i guess because the way the drop pods scatter works is more reliable. That to me seems like its a waste of a pod though. Id love to see where your head is at with this one?

Mostly it would be to snag that 5th Pod to make sure that I get three on the first turn, especially for if it a FA Pod and have a second option to place in the pod for tactical possibilities. Probably Some Powered Armored Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters.

The reduced Scatter is another reason.

i kind of like where your heads at. I get that void claws have a nice perk, but for a unit that drops in, probably eats a round of shooting and then can charge the following turn, they seem way to expensive for what they do,

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:
i kind of like where your heads at. I get that void claws have a nice perk, but for a unit that drops in, probably eats a round of shooting and then can charge the following turn, they seem way to expensive for what they do,

That is what the Multiple Drop Pods are for. You Drop at least three for me right now it is.
>Plasma Hunters
>Plasma Hunters
>Dreadnaught
I Also usually have a Stormwolf filled with Ulrik and Blood Claws on a Skyshield Landing Pad with Ready for Take off and Land Speeder Squadron forcing my Opponent to choose what he Targets.
Adding in the Void Claws could add another Target to shoot at.

The thought was to replace Dread with the Void Claws.

what dread are you using?

thats a nice bit of threat overload

Wolves for the Wolf God wrote:
what dread are you using?

thats a nice bit of threat overload

I change from time to time, but these are normal
>Assault Cannon/Heavy Flamer [Old School Bjorn Model]
>Twin-Linked Heavy-Bolter/Storm Bolter
>Twin-Linked Heavy-Flamer/Heavy Flamer

I am looking on getting the Axe/Shield Dead and Murderfang.

I do like the shooty dreads, at least when they pod in they can do something that turn.