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Our games group is getting into Infinity, we are doing a 'Tale of Four Gamers' style build, but I am on a budget and decided to pick up a few bits on eBay. As it so happened I came across a large deal for Haqqislam with only 19 minuters on the clock and no bidders. So I guestimated the price, calculated how much I was willing to pay then went for it. I accepted the opening offer (£100) and waited. Just as well I did, it got sniped at twenty seconds, so I re-sniped at five. All in all a good deal and a lucky stumble.

Now comes the hard part, knowing what I have got and what to do with it all. This army well exheeds my requirements, our groups is not going big into Infinity. But we know how gamers go and besides, a good deal is a good deal.

Now for the easy part:

I can work these ones out, but still dont know what to do with them.

1.

Looks like starter miniatures?

2.

Kameel Remotes. However which loadouts are they?

3.

i recognise the Jannissary, thats about it.

No idea about the rest:

4.


5.


6.


7.


8.


9.


10.

For some reason the last and first pics were smaller.

Help identifying these miniatures is appreciated, and I would welcome some insights as to what type of army I have just bought. I have read up on Haqqislam here and elsewhere as much as I can, but the unit selection is a bit bewildering and I am not used to this game, its jargon an d how it plays. only that it was recommended as a good option for a small scale skirmish game to get into and my games group decided collectively to do this one for the Four Gamers.

So, have I bought a lot of rabble, lots of heavy elites, a mix or whatever? it doesn't matter either way, the faction is appealing and the game holds promise. But I would like to know.

 Orlanth wrote:


1.

Looks like starter miniatures?
Yep except it is missing the Jannissaire, but he is in picture 8 http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/haqqislam-starter-pack/

2.

Kameel Remotes. However which loadouts are they?
Same loadouts as thier pic http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/kameel-remotes/ evo Repeater and Total reaction

3.

I recognise the Jannissary, thats about it.

No idea about the rest:

Ok lets go left to right/front to back here
Janissaries, Djanbazan, Tuaregs, Djanbazan, Hassassin Muyibs, Hassassin Muyibs, Sekban, Hassassin Farzans, and Al Hawwa Unit

4.


Support Pack

5.


Can't say need to see the front.

6.


Asawira

7.


Hassassin Ragiks (OOP)

8.


See answer 1

9.


Hassassin Barid

10.

For some reason the last and first pics were smaller.

First one not sure, but the second is a Al Hawwa'

Hope this helps and welcome to the game

Thank you so much, I like how you linked everything also.
I will have a read, sounds like a very comprehensive set.

Does this fit one or other of the subfactions, or is this a generalist army?

Those Kameel remotes are in the Minesweeper and Total Reaction loadouts, which are the two you'll most likely use anyway.

The first model in the last 2 smaller pictures looks like the Hassassin Ragik from the Bahram starter withou the winglets.

I wouldn't try to make a Hassassin or QK army out of what you have. There's a great smattering of everything in there, which is fantastic for vanilla lists, but you'll need more from either sectorial to make a decent list.

For Hassassin I'd recommend filling out the Muyibs - you're missing 3. The Heavy Rocket Launcher, Spitfire, and basic Rifle models. These are split across the Hassassin Bahram starter box and the Muyib box now, so they might be expensive/hard to get a hold of. But just getting those 3 models will let you make a very playable Hassassin list. If you want to try to hunt down the old blisters (there's still some in the wilds), they're this one and this one.

For QK I'd recommend either a few more Djanbazan to fill out the link. Just the Hacker and HMG. Or another link you like - Kaplan, Odalisques, Sekban, etc. QK has a huge selection. Pick a link to anchor the list, then add in some other QK units, which you have a few of. The great thing is you have both Al Hawwa, they're fantastic.

The kameel is EVO-- the one with the dish-- and the other total reaction. But it doesn't really matter. There are only three load outs, and there is no minesweeper load-out, so just use the total reaction as a proxy.

That is very much a vanilla army, not a subfaction-- called a sectorial.

You can play around with ideas here, with the free army builder-- it is flash and takes forever to load, so save the file from your cache to save on load time and just run it natively-- here http://infinitythegame.com/army/ and see all the Haqq minis here http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/category/haqq/

Remember, the new rulebook is just out.

Before i sw this i was thinking about buying a Ghulam based list, with one or two other things. This looks like the complete opposite, however thats a good thing. My initial thoughts are based on the models and a rough idea of concept, not any experience of the game.

With so many different cherry picked stuff here, many with neat toys, especially snipers, from different subsections. It looks like this collection was made for the metagame.
That isnt my style, but its a very good baseline for making many lists if it is.

I like the idea of making a Hassassin army, Shae-Konnit mighty be able to sell me the Muyibs, I am also interested in buying some Ghulam heavies to return to my core concept.
Alternately as we are looking for skirmish forces I might wake up and just keep what I have got.

Do I need two jammer units? Or can I split this down.

 Orlanth wrote:
With so many different cherry picked stuff here, many with neat toys, especially snipers, from different subsections. It looks like this collection was made for the metagame.
That isnt my style, but its a very good baseline for making many lists if it is.

Don't think along the lines of most mainstream games. There really is no 'metagame', no netlists, and no competitive and uncompetitive units. People might have units they themselves favour due to playstyle, but nothing in this game is better or worse in the grand scheme. Personally I rarely keep a list the same, and that's not due to any metagame, just me wanting to explore different options.

This selection of models is fantastic for that. You've got some heavies, some camo skimishers, some grunts, some heavy weapons, a lot of basic rifles, some non-standard units like Kum, some remotes. A bit of everything, which should be a lot of fun.

I am just not used to this yet Loki. My gaming instinct is to want a team of Janissaries a team of Ghulams maybe one or two solo miniatures and not use the rest.

It does take getting used to.

It's still entirely possible to make a dud list. Your units just might not work together well or might not be suited to the mission objective, but individually all units are perfectly useable.

You might hear some not so good things said about some units - Haqqislams whipping boys are Sekban (of which you have the heavy rocket launcher) and the Khawarijs.

Both are considered expensive for what they provide and lack focus on a role. But you can absolutely take them and do well with them, depending you know what you want them to do in your list.

I have been reading up, the Sekban rocket trooper is popular with some because it is the only heavy rocket launcher available. That has to be worth something.

When messing around on Aleph toolbox I saw a lot of rthe infantry cost a fair whack. I also noticed i had only one hacker, and no machine guns, but four snipers

What is the convention on conversions in Infinity? I have two rifle Janissaries and wonder if I can convert one into an HMG.

I might buy the Janissary HMG, but then I have three Janissaries. That is tempting but its a lot of points. This makes something called a link team, and the tacticas read that link teams are good news somehow.

I am also interested in these dudes:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2014/miniatures/ghulam-infantry/

A cheap HMG, cheap sniper and a rocket launcher, and a fifth sniper on the side. It also scratches my itch for a Ghulam horde.

What I know I will do is wait before buying anything else, this buy just about cleared me out and I just bought the 3rd edition rulebox preorder on top. But it helps to have a goal in mind.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can I have a second opinion on what the miniature is in picture 8. Its neither of the Janissaries on the website, the pose is wrong. Is it an old sculpt, special edition or some such?

Also the Janissary for the starter set is in picture 3

Well, it's not the only heavy rocket launcher available - Hassassin Muyibs have one as well. That being said, yes, the Sekban HRL is an effective long range fire support unit - good BS, good range brackets, tough, with 360 degree line of sight (rather than the standard 180). The point of contention comes from their use as a Linked Team, the general consensus is they're most useful as a 3 man Haris link with a Doctor, Haris Link Leader and HRL for reaching out to touch somebody.

The basic Sekban troopers are expensive because of the AP rifle, which sees best results if your opponents like their heavy infantry or TAGs. If you're facing a bunch of light infantry, those AP rifles are just expensive rifles.

You say 'but then I have three Jannisaries' like it's a bad thing? In Qapu Khalki, you can link them. While they're 'budget', no frills heavy infantry, 3 ARM 4 2W models in cover with a HMG firing at you is not a pleasant thing to face. Moreso if one is a doctor and can get them back up.

Ghulam are good line infantry, and do what line infantry do best well - hold your deployment zone. If you're taking special weapons with these guys, you're still going to be using them mostly for that role. Cheap snipers are great putting someone expendable out there to watch an approach, and cheap heavy machine guns are fantastic for layout down suppression fire lanes. Basic Ghulam are a touch expensive because they all come with light shotguns which are a bit situational, called the 'shotgun tax'. But they're still great cheerleaders.

On that, 'cheerleader' is a term you will see often. It refers to cheap, cheerful regular models whose role it is to sit in your deployment zone, watch an approach, and provide a regular order for something more killy to make use of. Generally these are line infantry, like Ghulam.

Picture 8 is the old AP rifle Jannisary. I have one myself, if you peruse my Infinity gallery. The new one holding the gun in an outstretched arm is the 'new' armour design, which the new HMG is based on. It's still completely useable in game, and is good for providing that third Jannisary to form a link, but not have repeated models.

For conversions, they follow the 90's GW ideals. Use a Infinity model as a base, make sure at least 75% (I think, I haven't seen it in a while) are Corvus Belli parts. But this isn't GW - even in an official tournament, if the TO okays it, you're good to go, and the Infinity crowd is pretty awesome about such things. People proxy other companies miniatures regularly in official tournaments with no ill effects.

Multiple Janissaries have use other than as a Janissary. There is a unit called the Hafza that can appear to be another unit in you army, by using a device called a holoprojector. I have often done this in my lists. Plus a Janissary proxies nicely as other HI choices (asawira mainly. Now that is an expensive link.) It is a nice way to trick your opponent. Haqq has some dirty tricks. See the Fiday for example.

Now, before you buy anything more, play a few games. I'm serious here. Use the minis you have, use them as proxies for minis you might want. Make and Play several different lists. Find out what you like, and then build/buy the rest of your army accordingly.

And proxies are always fine. WYSIWYG is a foolish pursuit in this game.

Thanks for all the help.

Now please tell me more about these folks:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2014/miniatures/ghazi-muttawiah/

Now Aleph toolbox has two statlines for them, and a special price. 5pts.

Now I can imagine that the scanner guys are cheap, most be unarmed at that price and have a very situational device. But I am just guessing. So far it looks to me that a 'jammer' is actually there to point at one of my nasty specialists (I dont yet know which is nastiest) and wellwish him another turn each from behind a wall.

While I am highly sceptical about the extent this tactic can be abused in general, on another thread. I also have to ask who the other two guys are. They are all listed as Muttawi´ah, but surely I am not getting the chainrifle dude for 5pts or the shotgun girl for 11pts also. I looked up chainrifles at the bottom to see is that nasty sounding gun was actually about as much use of a laspistol with a dead battery, but apparently its a flamer of some sort (flechette gun?).
And I noticed I can have four of them. What gives, the special rules Impetuous and Irregular give me a clue something is up. Can these guys not cheerlead? How are they used?

 Orlanth wrote:
Thanks for all the help.

Now please tell me more about these folks:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2014/miniatures/ghazi-muttawiah/

Now Aleph toolbox has two statlines for them, and a special price. 5pts.

Now I can imagine that the scanner guys are cheap, most be unarmed at that price and have a very situational device. But I am just guessing. So far it looks to me that a 'jammer' is actually there to point at one of my nasty specialists (I dont yet know which is nastiest) and wellwish him another turn each from behind a wall.

While I am highly sceptical about the extent this tactic can be abused in general, on another thread. I also have to ask who the other two guys are. They are all listed as Muttawi´ah, but surely I am not getting the chainrifle dude for 5pts or the shotgun girl for 11pts also. I looked up chainrifles at the bottom to see is that nasty sounding gun was actually about as much use of a laspistol with a dead battery, but apparently its a flamer of some sort (flechette gun?).
And I noticed I can have four of them. What gives, the special rules Impetuous and Irregular give me a clue something is up. Can these guys not cheerlead? How are they used?

The Chainrifle is one of the most brutal close quarter weapons in Infinity, it is a template weapon, that at least in N2, auto hit. Wait till you face a slew of Aleph Myrmidons with OOD and those things. Those guys are meant to give higher tech troops fits as they have the ability to shut down a very large chunk of items and armor in Infinity due to the E/M pulse, that if memory serves does travel through walls.


Here is the Second Edition rules ( I will post N3 rules when I get home)

This is a Direct Template Weapon (Large Teardrop) with no distance and no dispersion. Chain Rifles cannot be used in CC. Shooting this weapon does not require a BS Roll, as it hits automatically. The vertex of the Large Teardrop Template is placed touching the base of the miniature using it. Face to Face Rolls do not occur against a Chain Rifle attack: they will always be Normal Rolls.

A PH roll with a -6 Modifier is required to Dodge this weapon.

During the active turn, figures with two Chain Rifles, such as Dog-Warriors, can shoot both with the same Order, aiming at different targets if so desired and applying the rules of Direct Template Weapons to both.

Thanks again Nuclear Messaiah. I have been doing some looking up and it appears that Impetuous and Irrgular mean the Muttawi´ah will auto-advance but cannot be used as focus fuel for other models. Still thats a nasty gun they are carrying and the rules for Jammers make it look like they will make a complete mess of the opponents command structure.

Still while they cannot cheerlead (if I read this right) they will get to move twice a turn, once impetuously and once from their own irregular order/ or cancel both moves. If they get near a target they will mess it up.

With impetuous moves, can I pick the route to target, or do I have to break cover and mad charge?

 Orlanth wrote:
Thanks again Nuclear Messaiah. I have been doing some looking up and it appears that Impetuous and Irrgular mean the Muttawi´ah will auto-advance but cannot be used as focus fuel for other models. Still thats a nasty gun they are carrying and the rules for Jammers make it look like they will make a complete mess of the opponents command structure.

Still while they cannot cheerlead (if I read this right) they will get to move twice a turn, once impetuously and once from their own irregular order/ or cancel both moves. If they get near a target they will mess it up.

With impetuous moves, can I pick the route to target, or do I have to break cover and mad charge?

Try these links Of course same thing applies, that things have changed in the new edition and I will update accordingly later. ( I really need to start committing this stuff to memory)

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Instruction

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Fury?action=show&redirect=Impetuous

 Orlanth wrote:
Thanks again Nuclear Messaiah. I have been doing some looking up and it appears that Impetuous and Irrgular mean the Muttawi´ah will auto-advance but cannot be used as focus fuel for other models. Still thats a nasty gun they are carrying and the rules for Jammers make it look like they will make a complete mess of the opponents command structure.

Still while they cannot cheerlead (if I read this right) they will get to move twice a turn, once impetuously and once from their own irregular order/ or cancel both moves. If they get near a target they will mess it up.

With impetuous moves, can I pick the route to target, or do I have to break cover and mad charge?

Yes, Ghazi are a nasty thing to face if you're not prepared. Different people play them differently - some use them in their own combat group and position them on flanks. The lack of an order pool isn't a hindrance as they're used as basically 'living mines'. They're there to generate a nasty ARO and probably die. 5pts that doesn't contribute an order is easy to throw away. Another way to to put one in a main combat group. Losing one regular order isn't bad, and with the Ghazi's toolkit and an order pool behind them, they can do some serious damage. Personally I dislike the separate combat group method and prefer to potentially give them an order pool to utilize.

Something to remember is in N3 Impetuous models cannot claim partial cover, so Ghazi will be a lot squishier than they are right now.

Regarding their cost, they're very, very cheap because they have both Irregular and Impetuous. Both are considered a hindrance - Irregular because they don't contribute to the order pool, Impetuous because you need to expend orders sometimes to make them not run into gunfire. Both together is considered a huge drawback. Another example of this massive point discount is the Gakis/Pretas from the Combined Army.

The Regular order pool is the most precious resource in the game - without a sufficient pool, your army will be outmanoeuvred. By taking Irregular models, you're denying yourself this resource. By taking Impetuous models, you're potentially forcing the expenditure of this resource to simply make the model stay still. Both on the same model is denying yourself a Regular order and potentially forcing the expenditure of an order to make them stay still. While you can use their Irregular order to make them stay still, if you later want to use the model, you're still then using an extra order you normally wouldn't have.

Thanks Loki, I think its worth the trade. Charge and move or not move at all makes for a fair trade.

I would be concerned if it took a regular order to restrain them, but as they can restrain themselves that is ok.

In a way the Muttawi´ah is like a real war dog, it struggles on its handlers lead, and and might make trouble, but when you need it, just let it go. and it provides a shock.

Do the armour on the I models look like anything else. I might convert at least two. I like the wide open jammer, and I like the running model. It might be a nice project to place the hand jammer on a backback antenna, give it to the running girl and convert her weapon so that is is more chain rifley. So she is running forwards with a chain rifle and a large open metal flower of EW shutdown over her shoulder. The other hand jammer could go on the shoulder if the long bearded guy. He isn't charging but the beard gives him a wild edge.

Jammer girl with the shades is a great miniature, but I think she needs a new job.

Jammer girl with shades is a fashionista blogger in Spain. Or so we were told that the mini was inspired by one. CB routinely takes inspiration from Real Life people.

How well impetuous irrregular works in the new edition will be interesting to see.

And Shotgun Ghazi is meant to be Kat Dennings, but I don't see it.

 Orlanth wrote:
In a way the Muttawi´ah is like a real war dog, it struggles on its handlers lead, and and might make trouble, but when you need it, just let it go. and it provides a shock.

Technically they're non-combatants. Their new fluff (ignore the old fluff, which was all kinds of terrible) has them being low profile communication specialists who, when needed, can pick up a gun and contribute to combat, but they're not trained soldiers. At least not at the level of 'Regular' units. That's why the bulk of their gear is based on jamming enemy communications and disabling tech.

My modles arrived in the post yesterday morning, very lucky shipping form Denmark, at standard rate postage this close to Christmas. A full day ahead of eBays earliest estimats.
Two of the sniper riles dodnt make the journey, nothing else damaged.

I took a long look at the miniatures and.....wow. I really do like the scuplts, and eveything is so crisp.even the stuff on the sprue. This is a high quality product and I can see how why people like it.

Something I learned looking through forums and net reviews:

"Once you go Haqq you never go back."

I hope this is true, unlike other games I played I want to stick with one faction.

Today we used the miniautes for an intro game using the Beats of War cut down ruleset. I 'refereed' as best I vould and used the miniatures to create two opposed teams of three Ghulams or Ghulam proxies and a Janissary each. We liked the rules as we saw them and understood them. I am not sure if I got face to face rolls right, but it did seem to make sense as a tactical game.
It was also a pushover, I found once a team was down a model at this scale of game there was little clawing back. Down two models and the rest were rolled up quickly. The game ended after three turns with two kills and an unconcious Janissary for no loss.]
Guns are suitably/sufficiently brutal.

 Orlanth wrote:
It was also a pushover, I found once a team was down a model at this scale of game there was little clawing back. Down two models and the rest were rolled up quickly. The game ended after three turns with two kills and an unconcious Janissary for no loss.]

Three turns is the average, and the limit for ITS. It's a fast and brutal game.

However, once you play with 10 models, you can lose quite a few before you start to feel it. It's not uncommon to be hovering around the Retreat threashold, get some lucky Critical hits, and suddenly be back in the game.

Something a friend likes to say is 'God hates a coward' when we play, to which I respond 'Infinity loves a coward'. Stick to cover, and get those cover bonuses. They'll tip the engagement in your favour. Get out of cover and try to be a hero and you'll get a bullet between the eyes from a random grunt back in their deployment zone. Even the toughest heavy infantry or TAGs out of cover will die like chumps to a little concentrated firepower.

Number 5 is a Ghulam hacker if no-one else has yet to tell you that.

An older miniature but a nice one, I still use him with my QK.

Three turns is standard for ITS tournament play, and YAMS, another way of playing, goes four turns. Either way, games rarely take longer than 1 hour 45 minutes or so.

Yeah, lethal. Infinity punishes dumb moves like few other games. Always know your weapon's ranges, and attack from your best range band. Always have partial cover. And if you can shoot the enemy in the back (out of LoF) do so.

Just wait until you start using some of the Haqq doctors.

In all fairness, all of the factions are fun to play. it just depends upon what you like.

Yeah, while Haqqislam is still my absolute favourite faction, I did venture into Tohaa territory. Each faction has strengths and weaknesses and tricks that you might want to try yourself.

For me, the Symbiont Armour mechanic was very interesting, as was the lure of some higher tech gadgets.

My N3 rulebox arrived today, and I am hasppy with what it offers. Very colourful and with lots of background material to beack up the rules. I was disappointed at first not to see any briefing on aleph, but this was eplained elsewhere. Aleph and Tohaa will be revisited when the Human Sphere and Paradiso books are updated for N3.

now for some observations and questions.
Not seen eveything yet by a long shot, and I wouldnt recognise changes anyway, but I did notice changes to Kum bikers. They are now extremely impetuous, a new rule and can no longer seek cover at all. Allowing for how quickly things are killed if they show their faces outside of cover (or inside for that matter) I am wondering why I should tolerate impetuous models outside of extremely cheap units.

I have a box of Kum to build up, and am reluctant frankly. I can't see them doing anything but make a messy but impressive distraction/explosion while skeetering directly towards the enemy lines. What am I missing?

 Orlanth wrote:
Not seen eveything yet by a long shot, and I wouldnt recognise changes anyway, but I did notice changes to Kum bikers. They are now extremely impetuous, a new rule and can no longer seek cover at all. Allowing for how quickly things are killed if they show their faces outside of cover (or inside for that matter) I am wondering why I should tolerate impetuous models outside of extremely cheap units.

I have a box of Kum to build up, and am reluctant frankly. I can't see them doing anything but make a messy but impressive distraction/explosion while skeetering directly towards the enemy lines. What am I missing?

Extremely Impetuous is basically the old Impetuous, with a few more drawbacks. They can not (as you noticed) claim Partial Cover, and to cancel the Impetuous order, you have to spend a Regular order (you used to be able to do this with their Irregular order if they were Irregular). Normal Impetuous models can claim cover, and don't have to cancel their Impetuous order with a Regular order, they can just choose to not expend it. Most Impetuous units from the Core book that wound up in N3 are Extremely Impetuous.

The inability to claim cover doesn't affect Kum bikers, because they already can't claim cover due to being on a Motorcycle - no Motorcycle mounted models can claim cover. Extremely Impetuous makes them tough to control but very, very fast. If you deploy smart you should be able to use smoke to mask their advance and their speed and additional order lets them get up the board fast.

Regarding their fragility, they're also cheap. If you're found yourself 50pts short and at 10 models in a group, there's worse ways to spend it than simply throwing 4-5 Kum riders in a second combat group to cause some havoc without making drastic changes to a list you were happy with.

So I should use chain rifle with both Kum? The other models were much more expensive than 10pt each.

i suppose its diffuclt not to overstretch the ten model limit with Haqq, especially if I want to field plenty of Ghulams.

So when I reach ten models fill up the remaining points with Kum and Ghazi Muttawi'ah in a second combat group? That sounds clear enough.

Depends what you want to use them for.

Chain rifles are good for cheap swarms of them. Chain rifles got a bit of a nerf in N3 along with all direct template weapons, in that you roll to hit against enemies under the template and they get face to face rolls back, but the Chain rifle is still good for laying a template over a group of enemies and hoping for the best. They'll die doing this though.

I like mixing their weapons. Rifle Kum are still decent, as are shotty Kum. Just depends what you want to use them for.

Mix them up to get what you want. For 50pts I'd prefer 4 with a Rifle in there, or 3 with 2 rifles, but I know a lot of people would just prefer 5 Chain rifles. I'm j just not as big a fan of Chain rifles as some people.