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With mega armour, DLS and a killsaw he is actually half decent in challenges, too. Same number of attacks as a warboss, still wounding on 2+ with no armour save, still instagibbing most targets that can be instagibbed, and rerollable 2+ armour save is all but impenetrable to most weapons that strike at initiative.

But then why not invest the 15 points (25-the killsaw) to upgrade to a warboss for +1str (doubles for powerclaw) +1 toughness (this helps a lot agains high volume, low str shots + only ID on str 10), +1 wounds and +1 leadership. You do lose the armourbane and the repair from the mek.

Not saying that the mek with that loadout is bad, it just seems that the warboss is better.

killerdou wrote:
But then why not invest the 15 points (25-the killsaw) to upgrade to a warboss for +1str (doubles for powerclaw) +1 toughness (this helps a lot agains high volume, low str shots + only ID on str 10), +1 wounds and +1 leadership. You do lose the armourbane and the repair from the mek.

Not saying that the mek with that loadout is bad, it just seems that the warboss is better.

I only recommend the loadout if you're giving it to a Big Mek inside the Green Tide formation, otherwise it's better to give your Warboss DLS. The Big Mek can give a KFF save to Boyz in the Green Tide, and can tote relics (DLS) which the Painboy can't do. Da Lucky Stikk is VERY important in the Green Tide formation, so you either need a Big Mek to carry it, or a second Warboss. As you said, the Warboss with DLS is better, so a Big Mek outside that formation shouldn't have that loadout.

Poor Gretchin - getting a red rating! What, no love for the little guys? I think they're great!

Soo often I find myself wishing I had fearless on things.

It's bad enough that I'll reroll every warlord trait that isn't a 1. I really think every list should seek ways to be fearless.

Bullyboyz, Big Stick, praying for that warlord trait on warboss, even considering a stompa.

Reroll ing all failed checks is a nice thing too.

 Fxeni wrote:
Poor Gretchin - getting a red rating! What, no love for the little guys? I think they're great!

Gasp! The great Warboss himself has made a comment!

The reason I ranked Gretchin as Red is because their only use in a competitive list is to unlock a 2nd CAD. If I ranked them yellow, the level I ranked Boyz at, then they would seem like equals. Given the choice, you should always choose Boyz over Gretchin if you have the points (and you should try your best to find the points). Grots can be useful (there's a battle report somewhere featuring THE GROT, who blocked an imperial knight to win the game), but they should not be chosen unless you need to fill a troops requirement. Gretchin just die too easy and have almost no damage output.

To clarify-- there's no lack of love for Gretchin (everybody loves these little guys). It's just they don't do anything other than become target practice for the enemy, so they aren't very competitive.

killerdou wrote:
But then why not invest the 15 points (25-the killsaw) to upgrade to a warboss for +1str (doubles for powerclaw) +1 toughness (this helps a lot agains high volume, low str shots + only ID on str 10), +1 wounds and +1 leadership. You do lose the armourbane and the repair from the mek.

Not saying that the mek with that loadout is bad, it just seems that the warboss is better.

Because you can use the warboss elsewhere and the warboss can't take a kustom force field to protect the boyz. It's a question of how these characters gel with their squad, not just how powerful they are in their own right. This is why I don't give my warboss mega armour.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
Poor Gretchin - getting a red rating! What, no love for the little guys? I think they're great!

Gasp! The great Warboss himself has made a comment!

The reason I ranked Gretchin as Red is because their only use in a competitive list is to unlock a 2nd CAD. If I ranked them yellow, the level I ranked Boyz at, then they would seem like equals. Given the choice, you should always choose Boyz over Gretchin if you have the points (and you should try your best to find the points). Grots can be useful (there's a battle report somewhere featuring THE GROT, who blocked an imperial knight to win the game), but they should not be chosen unless you need to fill a troops requirement. Gretchin just die too easy and have almost no damage output.

To clarify-- there's no lack of love for Gretchin (everybody loves these little guys). It's just they don't do anything other than become target practice for the enemy, so they aren't very competitive.

I understand your point, but I still disagree with you.

First of all, I agree that, in a vaccum (assuming boyz were the same points cost as grots), Boyz would be better. But in reality, they cost nearly twice as much. 35 pts for 11 models (gretchin) vs 66 points for 11 models (boyz) is nearly a 2:1 favor in the grots. Furthermore, both units have the same ld (7) and will run away at the first sign of any trouble.

I would actually argue that boyz are better then yellow merely because of their flexibility, but that grots are also better then that too. Granted, very few people take gretchin for something other then filling a troop slot (I myself am included in that territory), but that doesn't mean they aren't good! Wasting shooting on a unit that can go to ground for little to no cost makes them far more useful then boyz, and unlike boyz, Grots make WAY better screeners and are much better at hiding out of LOS.

A unit doesn't need to have damage output to be useful - they merely need to have tools to contribute to the list. You won't be using Gretchin to kill something, but if we're going off of that metric, then other units that basically kill nothing include Eldar Jetbikers, Battlewagons, Drop Pods, and Venomthropes. These things have their use in a list because they have tools to contribute, and I NEVER have a game where I didn't find the 35 points spent on gretchin to be worth it - it's just so damn cheap!

Just my 2 cents.

 Fxeni wrote:
...and I NEVER have a game where I didn't find the 35 points spent on gretchin to be worth it - it's just so damn cheap!

And what about 40 pts? I like giving my runtherd a squighound. He's usually killing more grots than the enemy but is almost never running away from shooting.

 Fxeni wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 Fxeni wrote:
Poor Gretchin - getting a red rating! What, no love for the little guys? I think they're great!

Gasp! The great Warboss himself has made a comment!

The reason I ranked Gretchin as Red is because their only use in a competitive list is to unlock a 2nd CAD. If I ranked them yellow, the level I ranked Boyz at, then they would seem like equals. Given the choice, you should always choose Boyz over Gretchin if you have the points (and you should try your best to find the points). Grots can be useful (there's a battle report somewhere featuring THE GROT, who blocked an imperial knight to win the game), but they should not be chosen unless you need to fill a troops requirement. Gretchin just die too easy and have almost no damage output.

To clarify-- there's no lack of love for Gretchin (everybody loves these little guys). It's just they don't do anything other than become target practice for the enemy, so they aren't very competitive.

I understand your point, but I still disagree with you.

First of all, I agree that, in a vaccum (assuming boyz were the same points cost as grots), Boyz would be better. But in reality, they cost nearly twice as much. 35 pts for 11 models (gretchin) vs 66 points for 11 models (boyz) is nearly a 2:1 favor in the grots. Furthermore, both units have the same ld (7) and will run away at the first sign of any trouble.

I would actually argue that boyz are better then yellow merely because of their flexibility, but that grots are also better then that too. Granted, very few people take gretchin for something other then filling a troop slot (I myself am included in that territory), but that doesn't mean they aren't good! Wasting shooting on a unit that can go to ground for little to no cost makes them far more useful then boyz, and unlike boyz, Grots make WAY better screeners and are much better at hiding out of LOS.

A unit doesn't need to have damage output to be useful - they merely need to have tools to contribute to the list. You won't be using Gretchin to kill something, but if we're going off of that metric, then other units that basically kill nothing include Eldar Jetbikers, Battlewagons, Drop Pods, and Venomthropes. These things have their use in a list because they have tools to contribute, and I NEVER have a game where I didn't find the 35 points spent on gretchin to be worth it - it's just so damn cheap!

Just my 2 cents.

The point I'm trying to make, is that if you have to choose between a unit of Grechin, and a variety of other options, those other choices are superior. Gretchin CAN hide in the back, they CAN be screeners, and they CAN take up space. But Orks have other units that can do those things. For +10 points on Gretchin, you can get a Painboy who shelters a vital squad, taking the place of a screen. Or for -10 points, you can have a Deffkopta jump in front of a unit of Boyz to block an enemy charge. For +10 points on the cost of a Gretchin squad, you can get a KFF for a Big Mek, or just get more models in the squad you were protecting. For the cost of a Gretchin squad, you can get a Mek Gun, that can hide at the back and actually contribute to the battle other than just being there.

Comparing them to Boyz one sees that for two times the cost of a Gretchin, you get double WS, +1 Strength (and Furious charge), double Toughness, +2 Attacks (including 2 CC weapons), and +2 LD (though I will admit with a Runtherd this is moot). So for twice the cost, you're getting a unit that is far superior, better than twice as good. It takes the shooting of a full squad of Gretchin to kill 1.5 Ork Boyz (including Runtherd shooting), and if a full squad of Gretchin charge Boyz, they kill a devastating 1.66 Boyz, and half of that is from the Runtherd! Because they are so weak, and other units can fill their role, they cannot be justified except to get another detachment.

I really wish Gretchin got more love from GW, it's just they aren't particularly good right now, as their role can be filled by other things that are better.

Their statline could be worse and I'd still pay 35 points for a troop chioce that stands behind everything and scores points. It's a steal.

I know everyone is sticking up for units they don't feel deserve the ratings you have for them...i suppose I'm no different.

The reliability, survivability and affordability of Flashgitz.
For reliability, which you commented on, I would like to come to their defense. Unlike most Orcs, each and every Flashgit comes standard with a Gitfinda which, if they did not move, means they fire at ballistic skill 3. That's about a 17% hike in accuracy from all other Orcs. Their weapon is also assault 3. So hitting 50% of the time, with a unit of 10 gives you 30 shots, 15 hits. And lets talk about wounds. The snazzguns are strength 5, which means against most armies they wound on 2's, against Marines they wound on 3s. That means against most stores they around 83% of the time, 66% against Necron, Marines, Orcs... Now the reliability you had a problem must then come from their AP? Well they are AP d6, which throws off a lot of players. But math wise, that means they outright kill armor 6, 100%; armor 5, 83%; armor 4, 66%; armor 3 50%; and armor 2, 33% of the time. Honestly, for killing Necron, which I play a lot of, they're great. So 30 shots becomes 15 hits becomes 7.5 sounds that 50% of the time outright kill Marines, 50% of the time lead to an armor save, so that's 8-2 dead Marines shooting. Now lets remember, Flashgitz are nobs. That means they can then charge with weapon skill 4, 4 attacks each, 40 total, at strength 5. Which against Marines is 20 his, 15'ish wounds in a 3+ save is 5'ish more dead Marines... So your squad of 10, Flashgitz kills a unit of 10space Marines most of the time once you subtract Marines possible 1 kill in Overwatch, 1 in the assault phase, they still are dead even getting their armor saves as we kill them on their assault phase next turn.

Survivability? Well...20 wounds, in what better stay in a battlewagon... As survivable as most Orcs.

As for cost... Well compared to nobs, which are awful, their snazzgun costs -6 points, and compared to most Orcs with good shooting...Lootas? They cost 10 points more for 5 more wounds and a gun that you can move with, has 3 shots every turn, and comes on a guy with initiative 3 strength 4 and 3 attacks base...i like them. I'm sure most don't agree, but. If everyone else is going to stick up for their favorites, I wanted mine defended also.

I don't see why the Walkers got such a low rating.

 Rismonite wrote:
Their statline could be worse and I'd still pay 35 points for a troop chioce that stands behind everything and scores points. It's a steal.

If you're going to do that, leave a Deffkopta back there. It's actually less points, can take shots at things with a TL Rokkit, and can turbo-boost somewhere else if you ever need him to. "But he doesn't have Objective Secured," might be a protest. But remember, Grots die to any fire or assault at all, so if the enemy is in a position to take the objective, they WILL be taking it.

FratHammer wrote:
I know everyone is sticking up for units they don't feel deserve the ratings you have for them...i suppose I'm no different.

The reliability, survivability and affordability of Flashgitz.
For reliability, which you commented on, I would like to come to their defense. Unlike most Orcs, each and every Flashgit comes standard with a Gitfinda which, if they did not move, means they fire at ballistic skill 3. That's about a 17% hike in accuracy from all other Orcs. Their weapon is also assault 3. So hitting 50% of the time, with a unit of 10 gives you 30 shots, 15 hits. And lets talk about wounds. The snazzguns are strength 5, which means against most armies they wound on 2's, against Marines they wound on 3s. That means against most stores they around 83% of the time, 66% against Necron, Marines, Orcs... Now the reliability you had a problem must then come from their AP? Well they are AP d6, which throws off a lot of players. But math wise, that means they outright kill armor 6, 100%; armor 5, 83%; armor 4, 66%; armor 3 50%; and armor 2, 33% of the time. Honestly, for killing Necron, which I play a lot of, they're great. So 30 shots becomes 15 hits becomes 7.5 sounds that 50% of the time outright kill Marines, 50% of the time lead to an armor save, so that's 8-2 dead Marines shooting. Now lets remember, Flashgitz are nobs. That means they can then charge with weapon skill 4, 4 attacks each, 40 total, at strength 5. Which against Marines is 20 his, 15'ish wounds in a 3+ save is 5'ish more dead Marines... So your squad of 10, Flashgitz kills a unit of 10space Marines most of the time once you subtract Marines possible 1 kill in Overwatch, 1 in the assault phase, they still are dead even getting their armor saves as we kill them on their assault phase next turn.

Survivability? Well...20 wounds, in what better stay in a battlewagon... As survivable as most Orcs.

As for cost... Well compared to nobs, which are awful, their snazzgun costs -6 points, and compared to most Orcs with good shooting...Lootas? They cost 10 points more for 5 more wounds and a gun that you can move with, has 3 shots every turn, and comes on a guy with initiative 3 strength 4 and 3 attacks base...i like them. I'm sure most don't agree, but. If everyone else is going to stick up for their favorites, I wanted mine defended also.

Flash Gitz are one of my favorite units fluffwise, so I'm glad to see someone sticking up for them . You definitely extolled their offensive power pretty well, but their problem is limited range, and lack of ideal situation.

Let's look at an IDEAL situation:

Let's look at a REALISTIC situation:

The obvious problem is that even with ideal conditions, it's time consuming to make your points back, and if you're taking sustained firepower, you won't make your points back at all. Even if you do, you aren't going to last very long to do much with it unless you invest in some HQ support. The other reason Flash Gitz don't end in a favorable light is because they live in the Shadow of Mek Gunz and Lootas.

First let's look at Mek Gunz. A full battery of Kustom Mega-Kannons with all the ammo runts and extra Grots is 200 points (not that you need extra Gretchin crew all the time). It is an imposing T7, with a 3+ save on the Kannons themselves. They also have many 3 point T7 Grot crewmen to tank wounds. A 36" range allows them to start firing turn 1. If we assume 1.5 hits per cannon, we see that a battery of 5 has 7.5 hits, and 6.25 kills. That is 112 points of damage from an average volley. That's almost as many deaths as an optimally positioned squad of Flash Gitz that had suffered no damage at all did. And these artillery pieces are going to do that every game, because they have 20 T7 wounds. They are a far superior choice to Flash Gitz.

Looking at Lootas, it seems a bit more even. A 15 man Loota squad is 210 points, so 10 points short of your Flash Git squad.
The 15 man Loota squad will get firing turn 1, unlike the Flash Git squad, which started turn 2. Let's look at the damage output at the same Marine squad. Keep in mind that moving and firing isn't an issue because Lootas have twice the range of Flash Gitz. This also means they can camp in a piece of cover in your deployment zone (irrelevant though). 15 man squad averages 30 shots. 30 shots, 10 hits, 8.33 wounds, 2.77 dead marines. So the Lootas killed 50 points of marines. In the Flash Git example, we gave them 4 IDEAL game turns to make their points back. Given 4 turns in a more average game, Lootas deal 200 points of damage, and remain safely intact in your backfield, ready to keep firing. Opponents will shoot at Lootas much less often then Gitz because Gitz are in range of Bolters and the like, while Lootas are only in range of missile launchers or infiltrating troops. The enemy also has to fire past your whole horde of on rushing orks to shoot at Lootas. Even if you aren't convinced Lootas aren't better against MEQ, just think about other armies. Flash Gitz will always face roughly the same firepower when they advance. If they aren't fighting 18 point marines, then they can't possibly make their points back against a more lightly armored, cheaper, force with equal firepower. Lootas can be useful against light vehicles, flyers, and monstrous creatures, so they will always have a good target.

I really wish Flash Gitz were better (4+ armor would go a long way), but unfortunately they are outclassed by other Heavy Support options.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Their statline could be worse and I'd still pay 35 points for a troop chioce that stands behind everything and scores points. It's a steal.

If you're going to do that, leave a Deffkopta back there. It's actually less points, can take shots at things with a TL Rokkit, and can turbo-boost somewhere else if you ever need him to. "But he doesn't have Objective Secured," might be a protest. But remember, Grots die to any fire or assault at all, so if the enemy is in a position to take the objective, they WILL be taking it.

Actually I kind of like the thinking with trying that. Save me some points for some 5 point upgrades I might like. Must try in my next game.

I will hate removing my painted grots from field though some of the few painted models I have. Maybe I'll drop a trukk unit of boyz, keep grots, and field a dakkajet with that copta

Just to reinforce the legit nature of tankbustas, just freAK rolled four hull points off a land raider on turn two with fifteen of them. Mork was pleased, Gork baffled. (Guys I rolled gud dice and have to tell somebody)

18, I think we have different play styles, or you overestimate everyone else who plays thinking Flashgitz are a threat. Because, in my army I run 2-4 battlewagons. Of its 2 then I'm also running trukks. Like most people, you consider Flashgitz worthless, and I reinforce that idea in my opponents heads turn one. So you must be moving your be 6" and shooting then moving 6" and shooting in your ideal example. That's wrong. You move 12" and snapfire. You might get a kill, if you're lucky. But you've done two things. 1, you've reinforced what people think of Flashgitz. 2, you've gotten in a good position to have 24" range on 1+ units. Now with 2bws with 3manz squads to include my wb and grotsnik or Tankbustas, or bikes already in their face or trukks running down the field, are they going to Terry to drop the seemingly useless shooty Orcs? Nah. They worry about what most orc players run. Turn 2+ it goes down with you having a 50% hit chance not a piddly 33% and if you feel the need that charge is always in range when you've moved 12, turn 1, then the waagghh turn you move, dismount, run charge. But if you run a sent with only 1bw, no trukks, no bikes or stormboys, no forge world tanks and no stormboys... Then, yes, left with the only option to fire at they will all die.

And keep on mind, lootas can roll 1 on a d3 all day and they won't cut armor. Flashgitz will always give you 30 shots, that can be rerolled with ammo runts on the AP cutting shots, or charge and not die like chumps in combat. Since the new codex my lootas gather dust till cron-air comes back.

And the mek guns are great, no one can deny that, but if they are assaulted, forced to make a leadership, or not in range... They become paperweights. Flashgitz can move, assault, and have mob rule.

Well, a squad of grots is somewhat more durable than a kopta and cover more space.
Besides, they're great for opening a 2-d or even 3-d cad. Not saying that you should always pick grots over koptas or vise versa - it's just not an even choice.

I agree that gretchin are more usefull than rated. 35 points for 11 woinds troop choice. I don't care what stats they have.

I disagree with flash gitz being red. They deserve blue at least. Their extremely versatile in shooting and assault. Unlike lootas who are stationary. The d6 AP means half the time you are ignoring most armor saves even on MC's.

10 flash gitz is 220 and 15 lootas is 210.

gitz 30 shots
lootas 15 -45 shots

vs say a unit of marines 50% of the time gitz will kill 6.5 at AP3 or better or around 2.5 if the AP is 4 or worse. This is at BD 2 gets better if they don't move.

Lootas if they get 45 shots will kill 4 marines.
2 .5 at 30 shots and 1 if they get 15 shots.

I think lootas are more random than flash gitz and not as good in cc or mobile. And gitz are better at MC hunting due to higher avg shots and ability to get AP 3 or better.

So flash gitz need a blue or at least a yellow imo.

I love flash gitz

I feel they need just too many things to fill a move shoot assault rile, and can't compare to the heavy support slot they are in. They are the bubblechucka of mek gunz..

Speaking of mek gunz, any rich folk on here try spamming them with MA ICs to get mobile artillery that grounds fliers and drops barrage on Invisible stars?

Cause it sounds hawt

EDIT, Flash gitz and Lootas shouldn't be comparable at all, that common comparison is a big hint that flash gitz are in the wrong slot and serve as an overflow nob choice if you don't have elite slots.. which is also hard to run out of since mote shoota boyz both unlock more elites in second detachment and are more efficient in everything but getting hit with a template.

Editedit and I mean lower than Str 7 template

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
I disagree with flash gitz being red. They deserve blue at least. Their extremely versatile in shooting and assault. Unlike lootas who are stationary.

10 flash gitz is 220 and 15 lootas is 210. gitz 30 shots. lootas 15 -45 shots

Okay, maybe you can argue yellow, but definitely not blue.
1. You can't say that Lootas are less versatile than Flash Gitz because they're stationary. That's complete nonesense. Otherwise, by the same logic, Flash Gits would be better than the Mek Gunz. Lootas can either camp in terrain, behind an ADL or move around with a Mega Armored character.

2. Lootas have MUCH longer range than Flash Gitz, which is REALLY useful for taking out light vehicles, fliers or monstrous creatures. Strength 7 IS a really important thing in an ork army. This means they are more versatile BECAUSE they don't have to move around trying to get in range to kill something. They don't typically need to move because they don't have to.

3. If you want Flash Gitz to get into range of your opponent, then (typically) you need a transport, otherwise you'd be walking across the field. As these models have no Eavy Armour, Cyborg Armor or high numbers, walking will mean they'll be insta killed. Regardless of their 2 wounds. There's enough things out there these days which can just laugh at their pathetically short range. Their range is too short for them to camp backfield.

So if you have a transport, then you're instantly increasing the cost required to run the unit. Which throws your calculations right off. Try doing the calculations for Lootas and Flash Gits vs a model which is 40 inches away and with Armour 10. Or a flier. Or a flying monsterous creature. This is where the true versitility lies, and this is why Lootas are chosen in competitive lists over Flash Gits.

And remember, if you take a transport, you're reducing the number of points you could potentially spend elsewhere in your army. To top off, most transports will explode, leaving a very nasty hit on your Flash Gitz, forcing a mob rule. You've got to spend extra points then to have a Nob in that squad, otherwise your unit will most likely run away.

I love the models, but the unit themselves are like regular nobs these days. Over priced and too easy to insta kill.

Lootas have twice their range, though. Having to get in close to be effective means Flash Gitz will be more vulnerable to return fire, and more likely to lose bodies getting up the board.

Lootas also have higher strength weapons, which means they can threaten more than just infantry.

They may be more mobile, but their mobility also means you're paying for your gitfindas and never getting to use them. It's a terrible piece of equipment.

In that they're also of similar relative durability (t4, 6+ save, no access to 4+, an extra wound but with smaller unit size), I don't think it's a good comparison for the lootas. If they were Elites, they might have a place - but as is they compete with much more reliable choices in the HS slot.

EDIT: sorry, I just ended up rehashing the post above me. Disregard!

I have never had range issues with flash gitz, ever. The board is only 48 inches wide. Set up 12 inches in move 6 , that's is 30 inches to the board edge. So unless something sets up on the table edge and does advance at all,flash gitz can shoot it.

Adding an adl or character to lootas increases their cost. And with the amount of ignores cover around, cover doesn't help much. And lootas have no character or boss pole to help with leadership.

Again lootas have random shots while gitz have 3. And as for vehicle killing tank bustas are better than lootas , which in run with my gitz.

Maybe it's the army I run them with is my success. They advance with other things. I've just had more success with gitz over lootas. Due to the AP and ability in cc. I've had riptides and dreadknights laugh at lootas yet be shot down by flash gitz.

To each there own. I guess you can't rate units, unless you do i by an army by army basis and play style


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also all flash gitz come with boss poles and a character in their point cost. So no extra points added

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
I have never had range issues with flash gitz, ever. The board is only 48 inches wide. Set up 12 inches in move 6 , that's is 30 inches to the board edge. So unless something sets up on the table edge and does advance at all,flash gitz can shoot it.

Adding an adl or character to lootas increases their cost. And with the amount of ignores cover around, cover doesn't help much. And lootas have no character or boss pole to help with leadership.

Again lootas have random shots while gitz have 3. And as for vehicle killing tank bustas are better than lootas , which in run with my gitz.

Maybe it's the army I run them with is my success. They advance with other things. I've just had more success with gitz over lootas. Due to the AP and ability in cc. I've had riptides and dreadknights laugh at lootas yet be shot down by flash gitz.

To each there own. I guess you can't rate units, unless you do i by an army by army basis and play style


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also all flash gitz come with boss poles and a character in their point cost. So no extra points added

Could you post a link to your list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And bosspoles don't really help an average Git if their Kaptin died. They will then only pass on a 1 if in combat, and if their Kaptin is dead then they can't pass outside of combat. This means unit-wide bosspoles isn't particularly useful. Just saying...

I'm afraid I'm another Grotophile. They are 25 points less than the minimal boy squad (not 20) and a great at many things not yet mentioned, including eating overwatch and lining the edge of the board to frustrate outflankers. They can also come on from reserves and move/run 7-12 inches to grab a backfield objective unmolested.

Come on, they deserve at least a yellow!

I think that ork boyz are one of the best troops in the game. My list contains >60% of boyz and they're doing great.

flashgitz, i like them, but from what i hear (from most posters here) is that they are just contending for the few hs slots we have. i admittedly dont see too much of a problem here, us orkz have one of the cheapest troop choices out their that can easily allow us to bring a CAD or 2. "BOOM" grots, i love these guyz. rarely do i not take them to a game. besides from being cheep CAD unlocks, they have always been astounding objective campers. the only time they are in peril is when they are assaulted (they are deceivingly good at surviving shooting), but by that time they can usually tie up the assaulter until your ork reinforcements kromp them from behind (just how mork likes it).

my friend often wonders why i dont put my grots in reserves just to allow them to survive his first turn of shooting, but you know what, he has never targeted a grot when the rest of my army and all the deadly gubbins are marching up the field. you may think they are week and good for nothing, but thats from just looking at stats, try some of them in games, i know they have been the best in mine.

People talk about drop podding meltas a lot especially in tournaments but I never really saw the problem as an Ork player leading me to question the stompa's rating. Even with meltas if you have your stompa outfitted properly (Grot Riggers and a buttload of meks) it would never go down unless they could pull it off in one turn. With that being said there are several references in this article alone to bubble wrapping so I don't see why it wouldn't work with a Stompa. Simply keeping those drop podding tools out of melta range and then charging them with your bubble wrap or blasting them to kingdom come with your stompa should suffice to prevent anyone from even trying that cheese on you. once his melta vets come in they won't be able to do too much to your stompa letting you leisurely blam to hell one unit a turn. I am not talking about a cover save here. Keep in mind melta range is only 6" spacing out just one squad of boyz hell even a full squad of grots could protect a stompa pretty damn well from Turn 1 melta cheese. Your only real opposition might come from IG lascannon spam which is what that big mek with a KFF inside it is for.(He still needs 5's to penetrate.) That's just my opinion though.

My 1500 list is normally

2 CAD

2x painboyz

mek w/ kill saw (goes with tank bustas)

8 tank bustas

2x 20 Shoota boyz mobs
2x 10 grot mobs

2x 1 deff koptas

2x 10 flash gitz in trukks
2x traktor kannon and 2 kannons
Gun wagon (for tank bustas)

I experiment with different units for the the other 130 points or so to make it 1500. But does fairly well for me. 14 different units to score and contest with.

I feel this thread is very similar to an Ork council. People bashing eachother (albeit intellectually) over who's mobs are the shootiest and killiest. At the end of this council each warboss will go off and run with their favorite build anyway as we branch off, un-united across the galaxy.

For me, I mostly agree with the rankings of the units. But I think the Ork codex has some good internal balance, where certain units begin to excel and be more effective when taken with other specific units.

So it's hard to rate a unit on it's own effectively in the Ork codex, where synergy is one of their strongest assets.

 Icculus wrote:
I feel this thread is very similar to an Ork council. People bashing eachother (albeit intellectually) over who's mobs are the shootiest and killiest. At the end of this council each warboss will go off and run with their favorite build anyway as we branch off, un-united across the galaxy.

For me, I mostly agree with the rankings of the units. But I think the Ork codex has some good internal balance, where certain units begin to excel and be more effective when taken with other specific units.

So it's hard to rate a unit on it's own effectively in the Ork codex, where synergy is one of their strongest assets.

Well said.

Each army and play style works different. Something that's sucks in one army might be great in another.


I have been using a weird boy with tank bustas recently. Wow a 18 " S10 AP2 tank hunter beam is awesome =)