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Wow, I think it is going to be hard not to buy the Raider with the Tie Advanced cards making the Tie advanced a competitive ship.

I was thinking of running a 3 ship list

(Tie Advanced) Darth Vader + TIE X1 + ATC + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade

(Tie Advanced) Zertik Strom + TIE X1 + ATC + PSL + Engine Upgrade

(Tie Interceptor) Carnor Jax + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device

I'm wondering if I should remove the Engine Upgrades for Stealth Devices on Vader and Strom and remove veteran instincts for either predator on Vader or PSL on Jax.

Basically the they stay clumped together and the 5 move templates with boost should get them in range 1 pretty quickly where Strom and Jax can make it much easier to hit and they have to be much less fearful of range 1 return fire. These are all pretty manueverable and have a lot of green dice.

What do you think?

Yes, I'm pretty pumped about the TIE Advanced stuff coming out. I'm a Rebel-lover at heart but the chance to use Vader in his signature starfighter (along with some of the other new aces) is awfully tempting...

For anyone that missed the reveal, here it is: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/5/4/the-academys-finest/

I can see myself playing Juno Eclipse and Vader, the others don't particularly excite me, largely down to their mediocre PS which doesn't really favour how I like to list build/play.

Juno looks pretty good. Anything that allows me to fiddle with my maneuvers after choosing them is good. Zertik also looks like he could be useful, although the low PS is a bit of a downer.

IMO:

Lieutenant Colzet is mediocre at best. PS 3 makes it hard to use target locks effectively and pushes you pretty strongly in favor of AC instead of ATC, which means using his ability means spending your one action every turn on something that doesn't directly increase damage. The only redeeming factor is that he's cheap and might fill the same kind of role that Tarn Mison does for rebels. Sometimes you just have a couple points left to spend, and upgrading a generic TIE advanced to Colzet isn't the worst thing you could do with them.

Commander Alozen is a disappointing waste of a great ability. The combination with ATC is obvious, but at only PS 5 it's going to be too hard to use it effectively. So you have the awkward middle ground of being significantly more expensive than a generic ship but only a marginal improvement in performance. Having the cheapest EPT slot for the TIE advanced would be nice in theory, but I'd find it hard to justify Alozen with PTL/predator at 28 points vs. Vader at 29.

Zertik Strom is potentially useful, but probably suffers from being the third-best TIE advanced option. Giving yourself the ability to move in close for the firepower increase without giving your opponent any extra dice in return is powerful, but is it good enough to compete with Vader and Juno? There might be a niche role for him somewhere, and he might have been a good option if he was the only new TIE advanced pilot, but I think most of the time third-best just isn't quite good enough.

Juno Eclipse is amazing. She's a strong candidate for having the best dial in the game. You get every possible turn/straight/bank maneuver, three k-turn options (including the very nice 5-k), and tons of green maneuvers. The only tiny drawback keeping it from being the clear best is that you don't get green turns, something only two ships have right now. And on top of having one of the best dials in the game you get to adjust your maneuver at PS 8 to dodge arcs and avoid blockers. The only thing missing here is the firepower. You don't have Vader's two actions per turn to use ATC and still have an action for maneuvering or defense, and that makes it hard to justify taking ATC. Can she be good enough with just AC? I think that requires some testing to find out.

 Peregrine wrote:

Juno Eclipse is amazing. She's a strong candidate for having the best dial in the game. You get every possible turn/straight/bank maneuver, three k-turn options (including the very nice 5-k), and tons of green maneuvers. The only tiny drawback keeping it from being the clear best is that you don't get green turns, something only two ships have right now. And on top of having one of the best dials in the game you get to adjust your maneuver at PS 8 to dodge arcs and avoid blockers. The only thing missing here is the firepower. You don't have Vader's two actions per turn to use ATC and still have an action for maneuvering or defense, and that makes it hard to justify taking ATC. Can she be good enough with just AC? I think that requires some testing to find out.

Maybe combo her with outmaneuver? She can choose a K-turn, and choose the one that helps her drop behind her target.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Maybe combo her with outmaneuver? She can choose a K-turn, and choose the one that helps her drop behind her target.

That's what I was thinking about, but it seems like kind of a gimmick setup. If your variable k-turn isn't going to work then what do you have left? Will the improved maneuverability be enough to offset the fact that you're paying more points than VI Vader for a significantly weaker ship outside of the dial when outmaneuver doesn't apply? It's the same problem that has applied to every other candidate for outmaneuver so far: you pay the same points as PTL/predator for a benefit that is much less consistent and doesn't do anything to help you get into position to apply it. On the other hand, what else do you do? Keep her "cheap" with AC + VI and just accept that she's going to be a bit lacking in damage?

I think I'd use Juno with PtL. Hopefully the PS race will die down now with the Phantom changes and her 8 won't see her activating too early.

Strom I'm not sure on, as I don't like to send all my ships into a range 1 furball. It's not bad, but it's not something I think I'd get a lot of benefit from.

Alozen we saw a while ago, and he's okay, though obviously lacking in PS. I get the sense he'd make a great hunter of generics, possibly with engine upgrade to boost in if needed and get his free TL. Trouble is, you're making him a lot of points, and you might as well take an EU-less Vader who just use the TL from any range.

I quite like Colzet, I think he might make a decent 3rd ship in a list where you've got something else with high firepower but no crit tricks itself. I think FCS might be useful on him.

Overall I'm pleased with the options that the Advanced has now. A lot of their potential is bound up in the idea that PS is going to rebalance in the near future and it won't be a case of either all-high or all-low pilots.

All the pilots look amazing. Juno bothers the gak outta me though, because fluff wise she never flew a TIE Advanced. Just TIE/LN and TIE bombers before getting the Rogue Shadow for Starkiller!

Minor nitpick though. As a scum player, I'm super jealous of all those nice toys.

I feel 0 need to buy this set though. ATC is nice, but at 5 points it seems to be only really worth taking with the TIE/x1 title dropping it to 1 point. Certainly not doing Xizor any favors.

Would be super nice for Bossk, except the VY doesn't get a system mod slot.

 streamdragon wrote:
I feel 0 need to buy this set though. ATC is nice, but at 5 points it seems to be only really worth taking with the TIE/x1 title dropping it to 1 point. Certainly not doing Xizor any favors..

ATC is TIE Advanced only, and the Advanced can only take a SU with the x/1 title. So the ATC will only ever cost 1pt to take.

Can't wait for the Raider now!

 Riquende wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I feel 0 need to buy this set though. ATC is nice, but at 5 points it seems to be only really worth taking with the TIE/x1 title dropping it to 1 point. Certainly not doing Xizor any favors..

ATC is TIE Advanced only, and the Advanced can only take a SU with the x/1 title. So the ATC will only ever cost 1pt to take.

herp derp derp I readz gud!

Yeah, complete brain fart on the italics there.

I really like Strom - denying your opponenet a boost to damage dice at range 1 is huge. I think that it's just a different way of playing that imperials are not used to. IMps rely on their green dice and typically to stay alive it means staying out of range 1. I think this will just take some getting used to. I wonder if he'd pair well with a Tie swarm. This could let all those TIEs in close to get their 3 damage dice while preventing your opponent from getting any bonuses.

Juno is really good, anytime you have this kind of variablility on your dial is just huge.

Alozen and Colzet are very good and maybe there are combos with other ships I just don't see, but the abilities on Vader, Juno, and Strom are simply better for the points. I just can't see using either of them over these three.

Hopefully the cards don't go for too much on ebay...

I'm liking the synergy between Strom and Carnor. Not only taking dice away, but removing the use of evade/focus tokens on top of that.
Now mix in VI Echo who can dump 4 dice (5 if at R1 also) on a ship limited like this and between the 3 they can wreck a ship PDQ.

KellyJ wrote:
I'm liking the synergy between Strom and Carnor. Not only taking dice away, but removing the use of evade/focus tokens on top of that.
Now mix in VI Echo who can dump 4 dice (5 if at R1 also) on a ship limited like this and between the 3 they can wreck a ship PDQ.

For 83 points (with no upgrades but VI on Echo) I would hope so!

Kinda wish Juno was a defender pilot. Variable white K-turn, White 2-turn, speed one green. Actually a usable dial.

I dunno, I just can't get excited for this. Yeah, the advanced pilots are cool as are the upgrades, but I don't care about epic and Ill be damned before I pay $100 just to fix a $15 ship that should've worked to begin with.

I'm sure the cards will come up on Ebuy pretty fast and you'll only need to dump 10-20 bucks on the upgrades and pilots.

KellyJ wrote:
I'm liking the synergy between Strom and Carnor. Not only taking dice away, but removing the use of evade/focus tokens on top of that.

IMO this has the risk of becoming a gimmick list. Sure, in an ideal situation it's a pretty powerful effect, but how consistent will it be? And what happens when you can't set up the combo? For example, what do you do if your opponent spreads out their ships (while overlapping their arcs) to keep you from getting everyone in the debuff bubbles? How will you handle formation flying with a maneuverability-focused ship like the TIE interceptor? Can your ships survive getting bumped and losing their actions in the giant ball of ships you created by trying to get everything into the debuff bubbles?

I think the Strom + conventional ships version has a lot more potential. You're only investing ~30 points in range-1 debuffs instead of ~60, so the penalty for having your gimmick fail to work is a lot smaller. For example, you can take Strom + Howlrunner + 4x academy pilots with 8 points left for upgrades. You can still play it like a conventional mini-swarm + flanker list, but then when you have an opportunity to exploit the debuff you can take it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KellyJ wrote:
I'm sure the cards will come up on Ebuy pretty fast and you'll only need to dump 10-20 bucks on the upgrades and pilots.

I don't know, the title card and ATC should be easy to get but how many people are going to have spare pilot cards for sale? Hardly anyone is going to want two copies of the big ship (and a lot of us won't even want one) so that means only one copy of each of the pilot cards. Do you really expect a lot of people to want the big ship but have no interest in the TIE advanced? I think they'll be vastly outnumbered by the people who have the opposite preference.

The Advanced is an ugly little ship. Like the bastard child of a fighter and a bomber. And I can't even tell how exactly it's repainted. It looks the same to me. I can say I'm more excited for the raider than the Advanced "fix". The only time I might use it is upgrading swarm TIE fighters to Storm pilots with ATC or possibly tacking on a Storm with AC for a fighty little ship with consistent damage, if I have 21 pts left over.

Soontir Fel is my favorite pilot to fly, and Turr is pretty great too (been using him plenty recently) but I just have no desire to fly the "999" list or any variation of it with any of the just announced Advanced pilots.

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO:

Zertik Strom is potentially useful, but probably suffers from being the third-best TIE advanced option. Giving yourself the ability to move in close for the firepower increase without giving your opponent any extra dice in return is powerful, but is it good enough to compete with Vader and Juno? There might be a niche role for him somewhere, and he might have been a good option if he was the only new TIE advanced pilot, but I think most of the time third-best just isn't quite good enough.

Having had time to think about it, I suspect Zertik will actually be the second-most used TIE-A pilot. While Vader, Marek, and Juno are all main bruisers, I suspect Vader will see the most use in that role, because he offers the best balance of hitting power and mobility. Marek hits hardest with his ability to chose the best crit, and Juno is the most maneuverable, however, Marek has no particular movement advantages, and Juno looks like she will struggle to take advantage of her mobility while hitting hard. Her problem is that she will need to take PTL to both lock a target and boost/barrel role for maximum maneuverability. If she doesn't, she's not much more maneuverable than Vader+Barrel roll. However, if she uses it, she is stressed, and because she lacks a hard green, has a lot fewer movement options. Marek suffers similarly, but without the movement shenanigans. Vader Meanwhile can grab Lone Wolf/Predator with his EPT, giving him a bit of a hitting advantage.

Zertik, however, has a different role, as a support ship. He's only 27pt with Vet instincts+Accuracy Corrector. Because of this, he won't directly compete with Vader, so won't be sqeezed out.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
While Vader, Marek, and Juno are all main bruisers

I disagree with this. Marek still sucks. He's almost as expensive as Vader and Juno but has a pilot ability that is situational at best, compared to the very powerful options Vader and Juno get. I can't think of any situation where I'd want to take him.

Zertik, however, has a different role, as a support ship. He's only 27pt with Vet instincts+Accuracy Corrector. Because of this, he won't directly compete with Vader, so won't be sqeezed out.

But I think the problem here is that there aren't may lists that want to pay 27 points for a support ship instead of 31 points (Vader + VI + ATC) for one of the most powerful ships in the game. So most of the time Vader is the default choice, Juno is the default choice if you want a second TIE advanced, and maybe then you can think about some other option. You pretty much have to build a list around him and his ability to justify taking him over Vader/Juno, and that is really going to hurt his popularity.

 bocatt wrote:
The Advanced is an ugly little ship. Like the bastard child of a fighter and a bomber. And I can't even tell how exactly it's repainted. It looks the same to me.

It's painted to better match the filming models from the original trilogy, especially ESB and RotJ.

This new one has a bluish tint, the one I have is a flat grey.

What if you used 4 base Tie advanced (with X1 and ATC) and then another Tie fighter instead of the good pilots? What this be similiar to the BBBBH lists? They have 3 fewer damage points than the Bwing, but they have better manueverability and 3 green dice.

Also, does the improved TIE advanced (X1 and ATC) make the TIE Defender obsolete? For the same points, you can have Vader with X1 and ATC as a base TIE Defender, the only advantage the TIE Defender has is one more shield and white K turns.

Azeroth wrote:
What if you used 4 base Tie advanced (with X1 and ATC) and then another Tie fighter instead of the good pilots? What this be similiar to the BBBBH lists? They have 3 fewer damage points than the Bwing, but they have better manueverability and 3 green dice.

Also, does the improved TIE advanced (X1 and ATC) make the TIE Defender obsolete? For the same points, you can have Vader with X1 and ATC as a base TIE Defender, the only advantage the TIE Defender has is one more shield and white K turns.

I don't understand the comparison. The Defender can take a Heavy Laser Cannon meaning you get four dice at all range bands.

And deny the extra green at Range 3

 bocatt wrote:

Azeroth wrote:
What if you used 4 base Tie advanced (with X1 and ATC) and then another Tie fighter instead of the good pilots? What this be similiar to the BBBBH lists? They have 3 fewer damage points than the Bwing, but they have better manueverability and 3 green dice.

Also, does the improved TIE advanced (X1 and ATC) make the TIE Defender obsolete? For the same points, you can have Vader with X1 and ATC as a base TIE Defender, the only advantage the TIE Defender has is one more shield and white K turns.

I don't understand the comparison. The Defender can take a Heavy Laser Cannon meaning you get four dice at all range bands.

And deny the extra green at Range 3

... and you have to spend 7 points on the cannon.

I'll take Vader, thank you very much. I want ton love the Defender, but it'll be the worst ship in the game once the Advanced upgrades hit.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 bocatt wrote:

Azeroth wrote:
What if you used 4 base Tie advanced (with X1 and ATC) and then another Tie fighter instead of the good pilots? What this be similiar to the BBBBH lists? They have 3 fewer damage points than the Bwing, but they have better manueverability and 3 green dice.

Also, does the improved TIE advanced (X1 and ATC) make the TIE Defender obsolete? For the same points, you can have Vader with X1 and ATC as a base TIE Defender, the only advantage the TIE Defender has is one more shield and white K turns.

I don't understand the comparison. The Defender can take a Heavy Laser Cannon meaning you get four dice at all range bands.

And deny the extra green at Range 3

... and you have to spend 7 points on the cannon.

I'll take Vader, thank you very much. I want ton love the Defender, but it'll be the worst ship in the game once the Advanced upgrades hit.

I didn't say it was better. It's a different tool for a different list.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I want ton love the Defender, but it'll be the worst ship in the game once the Advanced upgrades hit.

Scyks say "Hi!"

 streamdragon wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I want ton love the Defender, but it'll be the worst ship in the game once the Advanced upgrades hit.

Scyks say "Hi!"

Yeah Scyks are by far the worst ships around. They are the first ship from any wave where I have literally never seen them used. Tbh until the next wave (after the Raider) hits I would say that Bombers are the next worse, then probably the E-wing and the Defender as a tie (they are both good ships, but have overpriced generics which limits their use).

 bocatt wrote:

Azeroth wrote:
What if you used 4 base Tie advanced (with X1 and ATC) and then another Tie fighter instead of the good pilots? What this be similiar to the BBBBH lists? They have 3 fewer damage points than the Bwing, but they have better manueverability and 3 green dice.

Also, does the improved TIE advanced (X1 and ATC) make the TIE Defender obsolete? For the same points, you can have Vader with X1 and ATC as a base TIE Defender, the only advantage the TIE Defender has is one more shield and white K turns.

I don't understand the comparison. The Defender can take a Heavy Laser Cannon meaning you get four dice at all range bands.

And deny the extra green at Range 3

Why would you ever put a basic TIE defender on the table with a 7 point heavy cannon? That is 37 points on a ship that already had a 3 basic damage attack.

Besides, I was looking at a point for point comparison. The TIE Advanced with the new upgrade cards basically puts the nails in the TIE Defender coffin.