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 agnosto wrote:

It also doesn't help that they're signaling that they still have no idea which direction they want to take the rules even making fairly major changes after the launch of the KS which can turn some people off of backing. It bugged me that I got the DZ book and then major changes happened a relatively short time later so I basically paid for beta rules.

Wait, what? What are they doing to the WP rules now?


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 GrimDork wrote:

GCPS should look like that though, they're supposed to be crack/elite soldiers and not just fodder ike the IG/AM often seem to be.

I thought they were just regular soldiers, not elites. Not that that means cannon fodder. I mean, do you consider the US Army to be fodder? The Enforcers already fill the role of s̶p̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶i̶n̶e̶s̶ Elites for "The Corporation".

@Azazelx,

I was referring to hubs, then no hubs, no multi-basing then multi-basing.

I thinks at this point they should at least know which direction they're going to jump with the rules if not outright alpha-tested. Others are making it sound like Firefight hasn't even been started.

Modelwise,
I wish that I were in the market for enforcers because it would be easy to jump in to an army right now and the models aren't bad at all. I was hoping for orx and asterians rather than derfs and space rats but we'll see what happens.

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

This is what I'm going off, from a few pages into the Warpath 2.0 rulebook:

Well trained and equipped with the best in
military technology, Corporation Troopers
are worth scores of the warriors of less
advanced cultures. The Troopers’ armour is
often invulnerable to the natives’ weapons,
leaving them free to mercilessly mow down
scores of the enemies with pulses from
their laser weaponry. Indeed, a great many
Corporation recruitment videos glory in
human troops slaughtering spear-waving
“savages” for the betterment of the cosmos.
If they encounter heavier resistance, the
Troopers can bring the awesome firepower
of their tanks and walkers to bear. In dire
circumstances an expeditionary commander
may petition Corporation Central to unleash
their most specialised force – the feared
Enforcers – who will quickly dispatch even
the most stubborn of foes.

So elite and heavily geared, not just mass fodder. And not just current/conventional military either, these guys go to other planets and subjugate them by force with fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armor. Then, the Enforcers are *even better than that*.

Obviously the Asterians and Forge Fathers have higher tech, and the plague can rely on sheer brutality, but the above quote is why I've always considered GCPS Marines to be more of a medium/elite troop, and not a baseline grunt.

 agnosto wrote:
@Azazelx,

I was referring to hubs, then no hubs, no multi-basing then multi-basing.

I thinks at this point they should at least know which direction they're going to jump with the rules if not outright alpha-tested. Others are making it sound like Firefight hasn't even been started.

Modelwise,
I wish that I were in the market for enforcers because it would be easy to jump in to an army right now and the models aren't bad at all. I was hoping for orx and asterians rather than derfs and space rats but we'll see what happens.

Ah, fair enough. I think the best rules for WarPath right now are the variant known as Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition. Maybe Mantic can sort something out, or maybe they can't. Most likely is they come up with something passable to decent and then reboot it/them with a second edition in 2 years as they have done with KoW, DZ, etc...

As for rumours around an AoS reboot for 40k... I can't see it happening. Models and rules for 40k are still selling well. So many dataslates, datafaxes, add-on codices, and everything else.


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 Gitzbitah wrote:
I kind of love the tunneler. It doesn't look very menacing, but there isn't anywhere to put guns on a drill. Is it a melee vehicle?

I could see using those as S̶q̶u̶a̶t̶ Forge Father vehicles. Old-school EPIC stylings!


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 scarletsquig wrote:

Pledge manager being open until February with this one is going to be rough on the wallet, I can see this ending up at a $1000 spend for me, especially if there aren't any more Mantic Kickstarters for a while after this.

This timeline would mean that there will be another Mantic KS beginning in January, surely?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrimDork wrote:
This is what I'm going off, from a few pages into the Warpath 2.0 rulebook:
So elite and heavily geared, not just mass fodder. And not just current/conventional military either, these guys go to other planets and subjugate them by force with fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armor. Then, the Enforcers are *even better than that*.

Obviously the Asterians and Forge Fathers have higher tech, and the plague can rely on sheer brutality, but the above quote is why I've always considered GCPS Marines to be more of a medium/elite troop, and not a baseline grunt.

So, basically the US military then? Better trained, fancy laser whatsits and high-tech armour.

While a "baseline grunt" using that analogy would be more like the Iraqi military, or the military from African nations or places like the Philippines, lots of the Russian military (certain units excepted).. basically second/third world military.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

That is a very fair point, I was thinking either for Firefight games where you're looking at 30-50 minis (which, while still expensive, is more manageable) or as a painter where if I wanted a design like that to paint up now, there are plenty of options available. I agree that for mass battles or as 40k proxies, HP sprues of those guys would be very handy.

If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

 Vermonter wrote:
If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

With out-of-the-box thinking like this, you will be Mantic's COO in no time.

Should be interesting to see what they do to spark buzz during the doldrums though.

I'd up my pledge if the goal was for Ronnie to do a nudie run through GW HQ, yelling "I got all your warhammers".

Joyboozer wrote:
I'd up my pledge if the goal was for Ronnie to do a nudie run through GW HQ, yelling "I got all your warhammers".

 Azazelx wrote:


This timeline would mean that there will be another Mantic KS beginning in January, surely?

Probably not.

There may be another licensed boxed board game at some point, but much like Mars Attacks, that's one to either pass on or go all-in with, depending on if you like the IP.

Beyond that, the only plans I am aware of for future releases for Mantic's games are ones they are self-funding.

Dreadball is very much "done" for the time being. 25 teams, 59 MVPs total. A good 4-5 months of queued retail releases.
KoW has a lot of mini releases to push to retail, along with a lot of rules expansions, army list books and campaign packs planned. At least three of them in development currently.
Deadzone is in development, not getting another KS for a long time, lots of releases to push to retail.
Dungeon Saga is fully funded, lots and lots of releases still to push to retail.

With the Warpath KS completed, combined with current in-house projects, Mantic will have funded a queue of retail releases well into 2017.

 Vermonter wrote:
If the advance continues to slow, we'll be entering the Kickstarter phase where Mantic attempts to sweeten the deal to get things going. Like adding a second free vehicle to the main pledge level, for example. And if people respond the way they usually do, the deal will be better, but somehow KS progress will get slower anyway.

This being so, this time Mantic should respond to slow-downs by making the deal progressively worse. Say, raise the price of all add-ons by $10 and the price of all pledge levels by $20, or replace all starter set troopers with old KOW Men-at-Arms. That should get this thing moving in the right direction.

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.


Or, anything to get it moving, really. $2.4k yesterday was very much "snails pace".

I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

 scarletsquig wrote:

(I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!)

You absolute madman

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

All very true.

I personally don't see myself playing Warpath - even if I wanted to, I would have to provide both forces and beg for an opponent, as there's no gaming scene to speak of anymore locally - but I would like 1 of each vehicle for DZ terrain. Maaaybe the drill-tank could be used for 40k drop pods, but, as you say, we only have a sketch and I don't know how ramshackle they will end up looking, so I'm not going to risk buying a bunch.

Second free vehicle is a good guess. Would be funny if this caused people to drop a lot of the $75 vehicle deals, driving the total down.

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

Same here!

Especially after the Enforcer Dropship turned out to be rather small too.

 scarletsquig wrote:

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.

That seems a bit unrealistic. With the EB, you essentially pay $10 for all that junk after accounting for all the miniatures you get. I don't see them swapping it for a $30 vehicle.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

If they do add more value to Advanced Warfare, there will be a lot of people going for multiples, especially EB buyers.

The only issue there is that Mantic will be sending out multiple copies of rulebooks, counters and dice, which will kinda be wasted on the people receiving them after a certain point. (I'm considering 6x AW myself currently!).

A good idea at this point would be to offer the option of switching out the rulebooks, counters and dice with another vehicle in any AW pledge.

That seems a bit unrealistic. With the EB, you essentially pay $10 for all that junk after accounting for all the miniatures you get. I don't see them swapping it for a $30 vehicle.

That's one way of looking at it. Another would be that the printing costs for those books are much, much higher than the cost of an extra shot from a mould they have tooled already, anyway - and that's before you account for (often international!) shipping where 100 grams of plastic tend to be a lot cheaper than several books.

I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.

KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?

Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

Even the much mocked Greater Elemental/Golem actually looked quite a bit like the concept art.

 judgedoug wrote:
I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.

KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?

Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

I think that they learned that particular lesson after the KoW1 campaign. They've made a great deal of progress lately but I have to say that they've taken a few steps back with the beard tank. The drill is ok to me but that tank is just stupid.

Look Mantic, I know that you've created an "aesthetic" of sorts with the ForgeFathers but please stop doubling down on stupid by making everything have a face and beard. We get it. They're dwarfs in space. We get it. Please stop.

 agnosto wrote:
I think that they learned that particular lesson after the KoW1 campaign. They've made a great deal of progress lately but I have to say that they've taken a few steps back with the beard tank. The drill is ok to me but that tank is just stupid.

Beard Tank concept art is the reason I won't be getting any because I am afraid it will actually turn out like the concept art
Though the tunneler is pretty neat. I used to have a huge IG army for Epic - including termites, moles, hellbore - so I'll get definitely be getting one.

I still think we see some daft decisions. Take the latest Dreadball KS. We have a team made out of clear blue plastic (I forget the name of the race), great not a problem at all. But the MVP? Made out of "standard" grey plastic rather than the clear blue stuff. Just plain stupid.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Unless those guys in the concept art are a specific unit that are more elite, and the 'line troops' of the faction are moreakin to what we've already seen. In 40k terms, perhaps what we're seeing is Stormtroopers to the Corp guys' IG? Which personally I'm hoping for, as while that design is nice, it's nothing particularly new or different (I could find very similar models from Forge World, Anvil, Spartan when their 28mm Halo comes out) while I think the existing Corp guys are a little different.

If they are the designs for the line troops and they can do a good job of them in HIPS I'd be very happy indeed. None of the alternatives you mention are especially reasonably priced, and that adds up fast. I'd like to be able to build quite a force from troops that look that nice, especially if they manage to do them for $20 for 20 models. You can sign me up for a good 200 of them if they can manage that. How much would 200 Anvil soldiers or FW Elysians cost?

That is a very fair point, I was thinking either for Firefight games where you're looking at 30-50 minis (which, while still expensive, is more manageable) or as a painter where if I wanted a design like that to paint up now, there are plenty of options available. I agree that for mass battles or as 40k proxies, HP sprues of those guys would be very handy.

Even needing 30-50 figures, the price of Anvil or Forgeworld models is pretty significant. 20 quid/US$30 for 10 foot troop guys for Anvil isn't cheap. Elysians are twice that price, plus FW's ridiculous postage and then US people get sales tax dropped on that as well now. Vic's minis cost almost as much as Forge World's at US$50 per squad of 10 (she's located in AU but prices are all in USD$) GW's various Imperial Guard cost between US$30 (Cadians) to US$40 (Various Metal IG squads), and the DFG Eisenkern are very specific and give off a real Space Nazi vibe, no matter how much Mark claims/protests "They're like, WWI Germans, for really" So I really hope that Mantic manage to plug the "somewhat generic sci-fi human trooper" gap in 28mm at a decent quality and price.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermonter wrote:
I think they may need to consider lowering the price of their vehicle kits in some fashion. I don't think 1 for $30, or 3 for $75 for the same one (annoyingly exclusive resin bits or no), is their magic KS price point. $30 a pop may be good value compared to whatever GW is charging, but it's not a barnstormer price, and the campaign is starting to look like it could use a big barnstorming item. Yep, something bigger than ten jetbikes, I'm so entitled and awful I actually said it, don't even get you started on entitlement, blah blah blah. $30 for a vehicle is definitely not a price I care to put money on based on concept art alone.

I agree. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the vehicle pricing. It's not even especially good value compared to GW, given that this is KS funded a year out (and the discounted prices you can get the GW kits for).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:
I've noticed a couple of the old complaints of "models not turning out out like concept art" but I'm trying to figure out if that's still a thing.
KoW 1 had some pretty egregious examples of that. Maybe Dreadball 1 or Deadzone 1?
Has that happened at all in the last two years though? Seems like DBX was dead on. Dungeon Saga's models look 100% like their concepts. And actually the last releases from DZ1, and everything we've seen for DZ2, are dead on as well. KoW 2... my resin Blaine I just got looks like the concept art.

So is it even an issue anymore?

Until they actually deliver on and we have that stuff in hand, of course there are going to be trust issues. It's a thing that they brought on themselves, and it'll take time for it to go away. If they held off on this KS until after all that new KoW and DZ2 stuff was in hand, then it might be far less of an issue. But they didn't, so it's still an issue people are concerned about. And the size of that dropship compared to how people pictured it from the artwork really does keep it an ongoing concern. At least we've seen the size of the Enforcer dropship now, but it doesn't help with the beard-tanks or the Mole Tunnelers or the Asterian Dropship or the Corp Tank/whatever.

The enforcer dropship is I believe bigger than a imperial guard flyer plus the ff tank is meant to be bigger than a predator so that may justify the cost slightly.

Yet it only carries 5 guys?

Tunneler does make a good Drop Pod replacement or objective for sci-fi gaming but at $30 I'll pass. If the vehicle deals were 2 for $40 I'd be much more inclined to bite.

So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So a Valkyrie sized ship (as someone who saw a physical render said) costing $25 is bad value when GW ones are $80? Even $30 if you only buy one vs $80.

The statement of the grey MVP in DBX when the rest of the team is clear blue is a good argument. But this one about vehicles is daft. And possibly worthy of a straight jacket.

Considering the MSRP of that $30 ship will be about $50 - $60, it's a fair comparison since the GW boat will likely be more detailed and have additional sprues of "extras". (note, I don't care about extras but they do cost and are worth something) Also, Valkyries are $53 on Ebay, NIB (plus shipping).

I'm not a GW fanbois by any stretch of the imagination but a good number of the new Mantic products are nudging up against GW level prices at MSRP; not a good or a bad thing, just an observation.

Bikes look cool - be good to see a szie comparison shot of the flyers..............

New Asterian Troops - Pictures specially for Alpharius