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What are peoples feelings on battlefleet gothic? GW recently revealed they were going to bring it back, and it was one of their most fun games of all time. I ask because I would rather play that with its fluff and ork fun ships rather than dropfleed commander, but in the end ill play whichever ACTUALLY has a playerbase. Do you think battlefleet gothic will play by some new crappy ruleset, or can be what it once was. Please no Age of gothic, I dont think I could handle another game getting completely ruined. People want tight, well thought out rules GW. Not some excuse to buy any kit and use everything you think looks pretty all at once, like an elf on a dragon leading vampire knights, with goblin lackeys.

Well, it depends. There won't be anything stopping you from playing any of the "classic" BFG rulesets, unless your local group is really focused on "official" stuff. On the other hand, Dropfleet shares a lot of its core roots with BFG, and is much newer, so it might be easier to find people to play.

If you want an answer right now, I'd say that BFG doesn't have much of a playerbase, but it's certainly not dead, and the game still plays very well. How that will change in a year (once the new BFG stuff is out and about) is impossible to say. Like you, I would hate to see an "Age of Sigmar Gothic" style reboot, but getting new models to use with the old rulesets has got me pretty excited.

I'll be interested to see what they do. With Forgeworld Resin, and the new flyer stands, having the old BFG cruisers and 'to scale' ships like the Legion Flagships could be impressive if they decide to go down the HH route.

Please god not more HH stuff!

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Please god not more HH stuff!

Seconded! One of my favourite parts of BFG is that it showcased the Imperial Navy as the primary Imperial force, I don't want more blue marines vs red marines. I'm hoping a resurgence means fleets are more affordable and a reasonable sized playerbase develops, I've heard good things about Dropfleet Commander but it doesn't scratch the same itch for me.

I'm a fan of SGs, and still regret selling off my BFG ships, but at the mo I'm going with Dropfleet Commander. I know there are excellent BFG proxies available from some sources, but as with other SG proxies they're still a bit limited. GW has announced the Specialist Studio, mentioning BFG specifically, and put out the call for games designers. But if they're only at that stage now, how long will it be before we get a physical box o' ships to hold in our hands? Two years? Three?

Gonna be honest, I know very, very little about Dropzone Commander's fluff, but the basic themes of the factions are enough to interest me. For some reason they interest me even more in the form of spacecraft, and the spacecraft on display for Dropfleet Commander impress me a lot. Add in the fact that the rules are authored by the guy who brought us BFG in the first place, in an older and arguably wiser incarnation, and I'm getting pretty fired up about it.

It'll take a wee while for Dropfleet Commander to arrive too, what with the sheer amount of work implied by 1000% funding and all the stretches and addons, and the concessions to FLGSs, but I'd guess it'll be here long before the new BFG. By that time I'll probably have a couple of solid DFC fleets and be freed up, so to speak, to check out another spaceship game. I don't think I have to choose one spaceship game or the other...

You could play the old BFG, but Dropfleet Commander is designed by the same guy, who said that he saw dropfleet (we should really start calling it DFC) as an opportunity to fix what was wrong with BFG. It is probably going to be epic.
As for the new BFG GW might bring out, we have no idea how it is going to turn out. They might just bring back the old miniatures, they might come up with entirely new rules, we just don't know.
I'd say either go jump on the DFC bandwagon, or wait and see how BFG turns out.

 smiler wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Please god not more HH stuff!

Seconded! One of my favourite parts of BFG is that it showcased the Imperial Navy as the primary Imperial force, I don't want more blue marines vs red marines. I'm hoping a resurgence means fleets are more affordable and a reasonable sized playerbase develops, I've heard good things about Dropfleet Commander but it doesn't scratch the same itch for me.

That's a total irrelevance when it comes to the Heresy though, since the whole point of the Heresy was that all the Imperial forces were mushed together broadly under the command of the Legions. Most of the vessels you'd see in the Heresy-era would be the same as the Imperial Navy BFG ships, with some "clean" variants of the Chaos BFG ships, and maybe a tiny amount of BFG-style Marine vessels. Heresy would be perfect for a modern BFG plastic starter box, since they could do "Chaos" vs "Imperial" in terms of the aesthetic but also be providing players with that same value-based "army in a box" buy in that the Calth box game does, since you could use both styles of ship in the same Heresy-era fleet. And if you don't care for Heresy, it's essentially no different to the old BFG starter, except we'd hopefully be getting bigger & better fleets this time around thanks to advances in plastic production bringing down GW's costs(if you went with an equivalent amount of plastic to BaC we could plausibly expect a battleship, 3-6 cruisers, and 2-3 escort squadrons for each fleet).

I think crucial identity would be lost by smooshing both Imperial and Chaos designs together. Such games need to have fleets with silhouettes that are easily distinguishable on the table, even though I never understood how pre- and post-heresy fleets in BFG had 100% different design aesthetics, in a setting with so little technological innovation and change.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Please god not more HH stuff!

+1

I've read a lot of people suggesting that the new Epic and BFG should focus on the Heresy era. I know that's one sure way to kill any interest I might otherwise have in the revived games.

Well, as much as I like all the races as options, that IS where the Epic genre started.....

epic would be more fun than BFG in the Heresy era, I think.

I'll personally be waiting for Dropfleet Commander to hit retail, as it's being written by Andy Chambers.

If GW can get their heads out of the gak then I might be persuaded to go back to BFG, though I'm still a bit sad that I sold off both my Chaos and Ork fleets.

BFG is a very nice game as it currently stands. The rules can be found for free online as well(use the 2010 FAQ as well). For a GW game it also has decent balance.

Only real problem is you can't find models for it anymore without paying very high prices.

I am excited that GW might be re-releasing it, but I'll wait to see the rules. At the very least we should have a new source of miniatures to use for the old rules.

I'm going for Dropfleet. The rules tidbits we got look to be a ton of fun and the ships are just stunningly beautiful.
I also play DZC. So i know how good Hawk is at getting the balance right and working with the community.

The fluff behind the Dropzone universe is also a great one. Not the "humanity is attacked and on the brink of losing" rehash we see all the time. This time, humanity is on the offensive, reconquering systems and invading planets, because they already lost 160 years ago...

But one thing to note is that Hawk games are very mission objective oriented. Games are only really balanced through that. Just a free for all pewpew shooting might not net you a perfect faction balance. Might still be fun tho.

Not to derail, but anyone like the HALO fleet game?

For me, neither - I'd be going for Spartan's Firestorm Armada, especially as they've just announced Taskforce, and some much better minis than either BFG or DFC

alexmann wrote:
and some much better minis than either BFG or DFC

I heartily disagree on both counts.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Well, as much as I like all the races as options, that IS where the Epic genre started.....

epic would be more fun than BFG in the Heresy era, I think.

Really? I'd think it would have the same blandness 30k does "Oh look Marines vs. Marines AGAIN!"

I second the vote for Firestorm Armada. Lots of different factions with subtly different playstyles and a very tight rules set that is FREE!

Dropfleet commander all the way. Original rules writer of BFG doing it, stating that he's making lots of changes based on experience and lessons learned from BFG, while also being very unique in style (space-ground support based missions? Variable altitude and signature management? neat)

BFG's a fine game, but it falls apart the instant you go outside of Imperial Navy vs Chaos. Eldar was practically a minigame as you either had amazing rules, or gak (vs batteries). Orks and Tyranids didn't really 'work'. Other factions were bolted on. And I don't have faith any GW reboot in the next 5 years will be reasonable, given the Dreadfleet Debacle.

Firestorm Armada is an OK game, but it's a bit samey. The primary tactic is to inflict a few points on a key ship and wipe out the other guy's other ships, while rotating/angling at the optimum range. It's a fine game, but I also doubt Spartan Games' commitment to actually keeping it alive. I bought into previous ones of theirs, and they drop/ignore games all the time.

Halo is by Spartan, plus contractual obligations. It strikes me as a worse, more rigid alternative to Firestorm, and I doubt it will ever grow. Pass.

Bfg was a good game apart from unbalanced but expect that from gw still fun game. Problems was always getting the bloody ships to not fall over or pitch to all hell on the stands.

Dfc is going to be a decent game with beautiful mini's but I am not sure if its going to be an utter pain turning the dial on the base and stupid little peg thing seems like could be an utter night mare with large fleets. I admit I have backed it so looking forward to trying it out.

As for firestorm rule set seems nice better than dwars or at least better written rule book but yes there is always a but I don't think the ship designs are as good as bfg or dfc.

My favourite rules for space game is full thrust the minis are horrible but great set of rules.


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Halo is more an entry point game for people and utter horrible ship designs

I would say, go ahead and mess around a bit with the BFG rule set now, since its available for free. For an easy learning game, you could just use the appropriate sized flying bases and worry about models later; for the purposes of the game's mechanics, its the base and stem that are important, not the model itself. I backed the DFC KS, and I'm very interested in the game, but it is months away (and honestly, I expect that there will probably be some delays in fulfilling orders - that's not a knock on Hawk, its just what most commonly happens with KS campaigns of that size and complexity in my experience).

 Grey Templar wrote:
BFG is a very nice game as it currently stands. The rules can be found for free online as well(use the 2010 FAQ as well). For a GW game it also has decent balance.

Only real problem is you can't find models for it anymore without paying very high prices.

I am excited that GW might be re-releasing it, but I'll wait to see the rules. At the very least we should have a new source of miniatures to use for the old rules.

Depends on the fleet you want to play, and if you are willing to use proxies. Orks and Nids are easy to make using some 40k parts, and there are some really nice 3rd-party gothic style ships to use.

BFG has a special place in my heart, and I think the rules are some of the best GW ever produced. They owe a lot to the unfairly despised Epic 40k. I'm really hoping the PC game of BFG turns out well.

Lately I really enjoy Star Wars Armada. I just wish I had more people to play against. But that's what I get for working in a foreign country.

DFC has a lot of advantages in some much that it will have models available. However, andy c does have a habit of tinkering with rulesets to try out his latest design ideas . Some work eg Starship troopers , some suck 3rd Ed Epic.

However,a lot will depend on GW and where they see BFG in their release schedule. Necromunda/Mordheim are relatively easy to get out using existing ranges as a basis for figures. Bllod Bowl still has a large fan base. As for Epic or BFG , I think it will be a coin toss to see who is fiirst but I would sde with Epic.

Content will also be a tough call. GW has shown that ist can produce wonderful varied plastics at 28mm, so I would say they will stick with two distict styles for the IF and Chaos. However, in the back of my mind I can see someone calling for generic ships with add on pieces to show alignment. However, I would expect the starter box to be a fleet rather than just four models a side.

Who knows they may even follow AoS and post the rules free online...now there is a thought

3rd edition Epic was Jervis' baby, not Andy's, as I recall. It's also not a bad game - just too different from 2nd edition Space Marine.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Well, as much as I like all the races as options, that IS where the Epic genre started.....

epic would be more fun than BFG in the Heresy era, I think.

I guess part of my problem with going HH for either game is that I generally have minimal interest in playing Imperials or Chaos (well, other than BFG where I've got fleets for both). For Epic I'd much rather play Tau or Eldar or even Necrons than SM or CSM or IG. In BFG despite having sizable IN and Chaos fleets, my favorites are Eldar and Orks.

Plus, as other's have said the idea of making both Loyalist and Traitor fleets in a Battlefleet: Horus Heresy a mix up of current Chaos and IN ships seems like a bad idea, from both a gameplay and a collecting point of view.

In the end, GW will do what they want and either I'll like it and spend hundreds of dollars on the "new" BFG or I won't and I'll spend it on something else. I'm a sucker for space ship combat games, so I've got a half dozen to chose from already in my game closet and BFG will remain there in either its old or new version. The only thing is question is how much of my gaming money goes to GW.

The problem with DFC is that it's not out yet...and because it is Kickstarter funded only people already in on the kickstarter will get progress updates. I'm trying to decide between Armada and DFC.

I quite liked the predecessor to BFG, with the more interesting variety of ships and quirky rules, but a couple of years ago when I tried to get into BFG (when you could still get models for it) I struggled with fundamental balance issues at low points levels. Right now, I am Waiting and Seeing...

Mark.

Cheeslord wrote:
The problem with DFC is that it's not out yet...and because it is Kickstarter funded only people already in on the kickstarter will get progress updates. I'm trying to decide between Armada and DFC.

I quite liked the predecessor to BFG, with the more interesting variety of ships and quirky rules, but a couple of years ago when I tried to get into BFG (when you could still get models for it) I struggled with fundamental balance issues at low points levels. Right now, I am Waiting and Seeing...

Mark.

You can still get in, I think, even if you did not back the Kickstarter. Take a look here: http://dfcpm.com/
Product updates are posted to the Kickstarter updates page, you can see those even if you do not have backed or do not have a Kickstarter account: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander/updates
You can also subscribe to the Hawk newsletter on their website: http://www.hawkwargames.com/pages/our-newsletter

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
3rd edition Epic was Jervis' baby, not Andy's, as I recall. It's also not a bad game - just too different from 2nd edition Space Marine.

Quite right, Epic 40k 3rd Edition is Jervis' design, based on a much earlier (and likely much rougher) prototype Epic game that was on the drawing boards before even Titan Legions and Space Marine 1e. And besides, some people (myself included) quite like Epic 40k 3rd Edition. I think the consensus on the 'Net these days is that 3e was not disliked because it was a bad game—on the contrary, it's quite a brilliant game with innovative mechanics. The reason for the backlash is that it wasn't "Epic Space Marine 3rd Edition." Also there was a bit of confusion about the basing switch (which, although it was never mandatory, made some people feel like their army collections had been rendered useless).

For me, DFC will never take over BFG simply because the BFG setting and aesthetic is not something that any other game can emulate (without a lawsuit from GW, that is). The game mechanics are great, certainly, but the idea of flying massive fortress-cathedrals through the void and firing torpedoes the size of skyscrapers is what hooked me.

It is still pretty risky in my opinion to trust GW on this. I honestly wouldn't put it past them to put the ships and mechanics into a new scale just to make you buy more stuff. In addition, we still even months after announcement don't know what form these SGs are going to take. For all we know the new BFG is going to be a watered down board game with support for only a few main factions. If it is a full game, there is still no guarantee they are going to make a balanced game. FW used to have a reputation for quality products, but honestly lately they have created some of the most unbalance garbage that exists in 40k. (can't fault their models though).

The main advantage to playing GW is they are still everywhere and 40k is still the most popular game. There is still a possibly of the fracturing of the community with a new edition release. If you are a current BFG player, there is a good chance the new version is going to be completely different. The Age of Gothic problem is very real. The game may not be even remotely to your liking. It may kill your current local community by having some players move to the new system and others stay with the old.


Right now Dropfleet is a pretty safe bet for ship combat games. The basic rule system seems solid and the focus on on objective game play with planet assault is pretty unique interesting. Hawk Wargames has a great reputation for being friendly and putting out balanced rules. In last big tournament, the top five players all played a different faction and over the course of last year the different faction win percentage was pretty close to each other with only one faction falling behind slightly (which incidentally just was the champ at Invasion 2016) I am very glad I picked up DZC. It has good fluff, great rules, and it just plain fun. Plus the army cost me only around 200ish USD as opposed to my giant 40k army which cost an arm and a leg.

Dropzone's biggest problem is it is still a smaller game. Not every store has players especially in the US. Dropfleet did really well in KS, but that doesn't mean it is going to take off. Only other hand a starter fleet is supposed to be around 1/3 of your goal fleet size. If you did the KS originally would make a killing. However, price wise you are looking at like 150-250ish USD, which isn't bad for a mini game. Grabbing a starter fleet and giving it a try isn't that big of a risk.

The bottom line is there is at this point no reason to jump into anything right away if you haven't already kickstarted DF. However, DFC is the best option right now. The BFG could be great, but it is too far down the line to get excited about it yet and not really a good bet that it will be any good.