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While I believe the FoC is most likely gone in the next edition I don't think they'll risk dropping points too.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'd welcome the end times and the removal of points. Makes things much much easier.

Not for you.

It makes things easier for the GW development studio if they don't have to bother with that pesky "making a fair and balanced game" stuff, but there is no benefit to the player base to not have these tools available, when any idiot could simply ignore the points system if they and their opponent really think they're better off without it.

but the most recent edition has unbound, meaning nobody needs to pay a "troop tax" anymore.

True but unbound can go into the realm of really whacky (6 WKS etc if you like etc).


With formations, whilst they are very powerful (some of them), it gives GW more leeway to sell mid teir kits, mixed army kits and still give the option for super formations - like 6 WKs etc.
I.e. more kit sales overall.

Whilst formations have got a lot of negative reaction of late, I have zero doubt people have specifcally gone and bought kits to build them. Not everyone mind you but enough.

Now imagine kit sales where your only option is formations. Everyone will be doing it (or jump ship). Hence potentially way more sles for GW.

 buddha wrote:
I hope reliable rumor mongers like SadPanda can clear this up. I don't mind formations but no points is not a game.

SadPanda allready said in Summer 2015: No Endtimes for 40k, no Aos-treatment (at least in the next two years).

The game is much more difficult to plan for ahead of time without proper points limiting what people can bring to a game.

How do people in AoS play pick-up games?

I'd be fine if they wanted to split 40k into a small scale formation game and maintain the points system for games roughly 1k points and above though.

It would be nice to have overlapping rules that new players could play using a small number of models (and $$$) to learn rules and tactics that can be expanded to larger games.

 buddha wrote:
I hope reliable rumor mongers like SadPanda can clear this up. I don't mind formations but no points is not a game.

He did

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/677083.page#8402616

Sad Panda wrote:
 

kodos wrote:

the question is, if the 13th returns, is this the first 40k EndTimes book?

As in everything gets wiped out like Fantasy? No.

As in the story is moving? Kauyon was probably first (Chapter Master Shrike), but 40K is on the move.

You can ignore all the 40k-goes-AoS hysteria 'rumors'

 Eldarain wrote:
While I believe the FoC is most likely gone in the next edition I don't think they'll risk dropping points too.

If everyone got the 7th edition treatment, I could see the CAD going away and everyone just using formations.

There are a few ways I could see points getting streamlined, but I doubt they would go away. If you looks at the rules for BaC, there are no point costs for upgrades. The scenario tells you how many guys you bring, but if you want to take the meltagun or a flamer, that’s up to you. Both have pros/cons, and are reasonably balanced.

If 40k gets the AoS treatment, (which I don’t think is going to happen anytime soon) there are worse things then using BaC as a template.

With GW including rules and formations in boxes, the hopeful side of my thinks they might revisit the codex system. They’d loose money on not selling the books, but would they get more in model sales by people impulse buying the latest kits? I know the cost of rules has stayed my hand from a number of projects.

Warhams-77 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
I hope reliable rumor mongers like SadPanda can clear this up. I don't mind formations but no points is not a game.

He did

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/677083.page#8402616

Sad Panda wrote:
 

kodos wrote:

the question is, if the 13th returns, is this the first 40k EndTimes book?

As in everything gets wiped out like Fantasy? No.

As in the story is moving? Kauyon was probably first (Chapter Master Shrike), but 40K is on the move.

You can ignore all the 40k-goes-AoS hysteria 'rumors'

Actually all I see is him saying that the setting is not getting deleted.
Theres no mention of the rules not being reduced to the level of green army men pew pewing.

AOS had at least a 2 year lead and given GW have complete blind faith in themselves 40k could have been getting setup since the early drop of 7th if not sooner.

GW are completley unable to consider that they are wrong about anything so even the disaster that is AOS would not stop them gutting 40k.

I don't see points going away (I hope), but I do see a different model for GW that could be possible (and not necessarily better).

You put the rules for units in WD as they come out, and in their box, and free online.

Then, you put the rules for formations in rulebooks and charge for them.

So the person who wants to buy the new models and add them to his army can't complain that GW is charging him tons of money for rules---but the person who does lay out for GW super-pricey rulebooks gets actual game benefits for doing so, as they can use the formations with all the extra bonuses.

Plus, GW doesn't have to put all the formations for any given army in a single book, since they are all 'optional'. So if you want your choice of, say, Space Marine formations, you have to buy every book that comes out with those formations, whether they are a majority or a minority of the content.


It's an approach that I wouldn't mind if these books were not so expensive (like older, paperback codexes). I bought ALL of those, just to read, keep abreast of the fluff, and see the pretty models. With current book pricing, though, it's something I would dread.


Plus, of course, once they had enough, say, Dark Eldar units, they could release a DE 'Codex' (aka as a collection of free rules), add a few pages of recycled background from past authors, and sell it as a book, too!

Again, this is purely speculation, but it's a way for GW to provide those 'free rules' we all like, without actually doing us much of a favor.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'd welcome the end times and the removal of points. Makes things much much easier.

Easier because you have no opponents? I have yet to hear anything good from the local AOS group who have completely rejected the game. I doubt this rumor but it does make me nervous as to GW intent. They can't come out and say "we are not going to AOS 40K" because it would almost be admittance that AOS is failing. However not letting us know their intent makes me worried and limits my purchases as I don't want to get stuck with a crap ton of useless stuff.

You could set a watch to the complaining.

An all formation thing I see as having potential. The current system is terrible. The number one problem I hear with units is that they cost too much. Points decrease won't help at this point. So might as well make dump the points system. Thousand sons too. They are ignored because they are not worth the points. Only way they can be of any use is in formations. The entire csm codex is poorly balanced because of points. Almost everything in that codex is too expensive. I can see gw limiting the number of detachmentts. Like 1 or 2 in a "small game".3 to 5 in the next size and so on. As well as one type of detachment to keep the wraith knight spam in line. Saying to adjust the points system is an excuse. Back when 8th fantasy came out the same amount of complaining happened over switching to percentages. That died out after a while.


All in all the current foc is flawed as of now. There needs to be a change.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes I'm not used to posting on a phone.

Moving away from the rules change discussion, I don't think it's unreasonable to think GW might be moving towards the end times. I haven't read too much about it, but as I understand it the latest SW release involves the 13th company returning, which has long been held up as a sign of the end times. I've also heard that the Dark Angels are moving to assault the Fang in response to the demonic incursions arising from the 13th company's appearances. Like the Rock itself is heading to Fenris. Two first founding chapters with an incredibly long and storied relationship coming into conflict? The only confirmed living Primarch being unknowingly being carried to his biggest bromances' backyard? It reeks of plot development. I know we've had loyalist on loyalist conflicts before, (GK and SW), but GW wouldn't divert the Dangles from fighting the 13th Black Crusade unless they were planning something big. It's not like it's a quick mop-up on the way to Cadia, it's MAJOR.

Just my two cents.

Do you really believe there is any difference between a restriction on points and a restriction on formations? The least useful formations will still be ignored.

miniature games REQUIRE restrictions of some type as do all games. You can't simply remove points, AoS proved that as people just gravitated to the better units using whatever rules AoS allowed.

Game designers must STILL DO THEIR JOBS

According to you. Making formations would still count as them doing part of their job.

According to me? No, it is their job :p That's a fact. My point is that removing points does absolutely nothing for the balance of the game.

So you think points are the only way to play a game? It's not like unbound where there are no limits. You still can only take a certain amount of stuff. There is no balance as is with the current foc.

Please let this not be true. I LOVE list building. This is the sole reason why I never tried AOS besides painting some of the models. Just keep the points, I can deal with formation only I guess

A major advance of the story with permanent changes to the lore would be welcomed, I just fear what comes after. Time of Ending in Fantasy was great stuff, but Age of Sigmar is a trainwreck.

There have been rumors of end times for a long time now. It is upon us folks.

I do too, but the current foc is just as limiting. It's not like formations are any more restricting. Some aren't good I will give you that but as a csm player it's incredibly frustrating trying to make the list I want under the current system.

 Kirasu wrote:
miniature games REQUIRE restrictions of some type as do all games. You can't simply remove points, AoS proved that as people just gravitated to the better units using whatever rules AoS allowed.

Right on. No one who plays 40k now with points gravitates toward the better units or formations...oh wait....

As has been said, this is a non-starter. There are no reliable rumor mongers giving this even a whiff of being true.

I am only discussing the possibilities. And most of the "good" units are still overcosted.

So maybe the odd "100 days" rumor was all about this - the time left we can enjoy hams as it is, until it gets mutated by the all mighty change?

pepsuber wrote:
I am only discussing the possibilities. And most of the "good" units are still overcosted.

How can that even make sense when it's points efficiency that mostly determines how good a unit is on the tabletop?

The 100 Days rumors is about the Warhammer Fest in May.

This seems dubious, especially considering that the Space Wolf and Daemon supplements still have points. Unless they release an 8th version in July, I doubt they'll do away with points entirely.

The 100 Days rumors is about the Warhammer Fest in May.

So, maybe, they will happily announce this change there. After all, it's a fest where, usually, new things happen. I have faith in that

This seems dubious, especially considering that the Space Wolf and Daemon supplements still have points. Unless they release an 8th version in July, I doubt they'll do away with points entirely.

Fantasy didn't have this problem. End Times models had their regular stats which were later changed to AoS

Most of the fun of building an army was taken out with formations. Formations are all about selling models and I have not enjoyed them one bit. Just as there have been many threads on the state of 40k due to formation hammer, I don't see this rumor coming true.

End times 40k? Yup I believe that. It will be a cash grab similar to the end times we saw before. Models obselete soon after? Who knows, but I don't see formation hammer becoming the new wave of 40k. If so, I will just play 6th edition from here on out.

Sad... I used to buy every limited edition codex, book, etc. I bought many models from almost every release. The last thing I bought was the LE tau campaign book in november. I was interested in this current campaigns book ad I play both factions, but it seems like a waste to spend $70-$200 on a book that will be obsolete or replaced in a year. Sorry gw, you burnt me out.

CragHack wrote:

The 100 Days rumors is about the Warhammer Fest in May.

So, maybe, they will happily announce this change there. After all, it's a fest where, usually, new things happen. I have faith in that

This seems dubious, especially considering that the Space Wolf and Daemon supplements still have points. Unless they release an 8th version in July, I doubt they'll do away with points entirely.

Fantasy didn't have this problem. End Times models had their regular stats which were later changed to AoS

Guess which was selling better? 40k wasn't hemorrhaging money the way Fantasy was.

Sad Panda himself said it. The story is on the move, but it isn't as drastic as fantasy with the world blowing up. I dubbeth this "Mini End Times".