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"You advance down the marble halls and approach the golden doors that tower higher than you can see."

"How much are they worth? I roll my appraise treasure skill."

"More than you can imagine."

"OK, we'll loot them on the way out then. I pick the lock."

"There's no need, the vast golden doors swing open at your touch revealing an enormous throne room, columns of white marble tower into the open sky and above you swirl stars and galaxies. In the center of the room on a throne the size of a castle sits Zeus, lord of the gods, in his hands he holds a thunderbolt. He points a finger the size of an oak tree at you and says 'WHO DARES DISTURB THE HALLS OF OLYMPUS'"

"I attack. Roll for initiative!"

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The time was the early 80's the game was Advanced Dungeons & Dragons and the place was any basement in Anytown USA. For those bold heroes who had already killed their way through the whole Monster Manual, the Fiend Folio and the Monster Manual II there was just one last hill to climb, the ultimate challenge for any adventurer, Deities and Demigods!

Presented as a suppliement to help flesh out your clerics, paladins and other faith-based characters players and DMs soon realized what this really was. The ultimate monster book. And they worked to put it to the test.

For years I had a copy of a later book, Legends and Lore, which had about 80% of the content of Deities and Demigods but it just wasn't enough. You see while L&L had Zeus and Thor and Tou Mu Chinese Goddess of the North Star it lacked two chapters from the original book, the Cthulhu Mythos and the Melnibonean characters like Elrick. It seems that TSR had the rights to those two universes from their rivals in Chaosium but later let them go rather than promote rival games. And I heard stories of copies of the original Deities and Demigods selling for hundreds of dollars. I resolved my young self to never even seeing these legendary rules, much less owning them.

Then last month, in a used book store I happened to see a pile of 30 year old AD&D books. And among them…



At $20 it was $5 more than cover price but still less than the $400 I'd once heard. Now of course with original AD&D now gone for more than 20 years and in this age of ebay and bittorrent maybe that's the proper price, heck maybe I got ripped off. But as far as I'm concerned this is the coolest thing I've found since I got a Boxtree copy of Deathwing at Strands Books for $5. But that's another story…
So tonight let me share my good fortune with you all.

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The book opens with some rules common to all deities. And let's be clear here these guys are not pansies, even the least deity saves 19 times out of 20 and can teleport at will so even if you somehow do wound Joey God of Basket Weavers he'll just teleport somewhere save, heal and come back with an army of fanatical basket-weaving worshipers.



But hey, if they have stats, odds are SOMEONE can kill them.

So let's see how they look.

There's 17 Mythos in the book, 13 are from real myths, 3 are fictional and 1 created by TSR for their non-human races. One thing I really like about this book is less than half of it is European, long before D&D ever created setting for the Orient, Middle East or the Americas they gave them chapters in Deities and Demigods. Kudos to James Ward and Robert Kuntz!

TSR wisely steered clear of giving Moses, Jesus and Mohammed stats but among the clearly fictional deities like Cthulhu and clearly mythical ones like Zeus they did have Hindu and Shinto gods who are still worshiped. I wonder how the world's 700 million Hindus feel knowing that Skullcrusher my 35th level barbarian fighter can totally kick Ganesh's ass?




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We start with American Indian Mythos.



Raven takes the top spot with 400hp and the ability to polymorph into the moon (the moon?!) yeah Skullcrusher is probably going to have a rough time. But he's not much of a trickster god if Nife my 28th level Dwarf thief has a higher pick pocket skill than him!

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The heroes of King Arthur show up next, an interesting pick since they're neither deities nor demigods.



And come on, King Arthur is only 14th level? And look at those stats, I bet he totally cheated!
Though apparently he can totally kick troll ass.





For the living inspiration of all fantasy wizards Merlin ain't so hot either. Sure he's a magic-user/illusionist/druid but he only got up to 14th level. I bet Thrax my 5th level fighter/23rd level magic user could stomp him.



King Pellinore ain't so hot either, in fact I can't even remember any legends about him, but I do love this picture. Nice to see some whimsy in a book like this.

god...
the 2nd edition version of this book is still used weekly by my group...
such a helpful book...

King Pellinore is awesome. I remember him as the guy who could never find the great Questing Beast in T H White's Once & Future King trilogy.

Oh, and I'd argue that King Arthur is a demi-God, at least if you buy into the King that was and King to be aspect of the mythos.

This seems like one hell of a find K_K, and I can't wait to see how the rest of the pantheons stack up. Not sure my old Cleric characters could kick a god's rear, as I didn't start playing until 2nd Edition (The book here is older than I am!)

I am disappointed that there were no stats for the Hebrew mythology figures like Moses etc, as I think it'd be a lot of fun to see how the Mazes 7 Monsters crowd would react to a "OMG! He can kill Jesus!" situation.

cough

I've never played D&D, but I have this book and the monster manual. They have served as a good source of fluff to draw upon for my 40K armies.

Babylon is next on our tour with Anu, God of the Sky taking top honors.



Now he's pretty cool, if you try to cast ANY spell at him you must save (at -4) or be disintegrated. And he can summon dragons. Oh and he created the heavens and the earth so there's that too. Yeah let's think twice before giving him a hard time.



I really love this guy. Most gods would be happy with just having 8 arms and 4 legs but Druaga takes it to the next level with tentacle toes and the face of a young boy. On top of everything else he has a mace that when he wacks you with it, it turns you into a devil under his command. But he's a nice guy under all that, he might send some devils to help you out if you sacrifice a virgin to him. I wish I could have been at the brain-storming/drinking session that came up with these rules.



Y'know you would think star of one of the oldest myths ever written might have gotten past 12th level. But not TSR apparently. And he's only got a Mace +2, I mean come on. By the time he was 12th level Skullcrusher had a 2-handed sword +4 and a negative armor class. What a wuss.

Also he's apparently 1/3 god, 1/3 man and 1/3 monster. How does that even work?



They really didn't do their research for this book, there's not one mention of her being the goddess of really bad movies.



I'll always have a soft spot for this 4-eyed 4-eared fire-breathing bastard. He showed up in the Real Ghostbusters cartoon and he declared himself god of New York. You go Marduk!



And kick Tiamat's butt!

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And with that… off to Ireland for some Celtic myths!



Why is he the dozen king? Cause he can split into a dozen bodies all with the same powers. I think even Skullcrusher will want to stay on his good side.



Tsk, total cheese. Don't these Irish gods know rangers have to be good? Probably too drunk to read the rules. Or maybe he used his double death spell power to convince the DM to make an exception.


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And now we check in on Central America, the really, really hard to pronounce pantheon.
The local boss is a dude named Quetzalcoatl, pronounced KETZ-AL-COAT-LL if anyone should jump out and ask you).



I will never forget this artwork, I traced it to use as the cover of a report on the Aztecs for Spanish class. Got a B in it if I remember right. Did you know he might have been a Christian saint who travelled to Mexico before Columbus? True fact!



Ah Mictlantecuhtli, now that's what a death god should look like! Not like my dad getting ready to shovel snow (yes I'm looking at you Arawn). Note his NEGATIVE charisma stat. That meant he was still pretty charismatic but you followed out of fear not loyalty. Fighting him was a pretty bad idea since anyone who touches him with anything dies (but you get a save).



At first I thought Tlazolteotl was pretty worthless but somehow when I turned 13 I found her a lot more interesting. Endlessly so. Funny how that works.

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And now for the Middle Kingdom (called that because it's not too good, not too bad, just sort of in the middle) RED CHINA! Though I suppose it wasn't quite so red when these myths were created. Still I wonder how many hit points Chairman Mao would have and would he have magical internet blocking powers…

Anyway where were we?



Shang-Ti, supreme god of the heavens and head of the celestial bureaucracy still manages to be a lower level cleric than my sister. But he does have 400hp so that's something. And he is a 15th level bard, y'know in case you want him to sing for you. Pretty much all the chief gods had 400hp. This book is nothing if not even-handed.



And now for the meanest, scariest, nastiest piece of work in the whole damn book. Oh sure you might think the Punisher of the Gods or the Counts of the Wind or the Killer of the Gods would be scarier than the Goddess of Mercy and Childbearing, but you'd be wrong. "No act of violence can be directed towards her by any being in the universe. For example, she could walk safely through 500 different kinds of demons and devils and never be harmed." Of course she has 0 attacks and is not allowed to use her powers to harm another, but I see nothing in there preventing her from giving Orcus a weggie then laughing at him.




Speaking of the Killer of the Gods, here we have Godzilla. Oddly he's not a god himself, just a 16HD monster who's 70 FEET tall and a necklace that can turn into any weapon. So far he's killed 10 minor deities. That's even more than Skullcrusher.

I did a quick google search and can't find any trace of Ma Yuan Killer of the Gods, I wonder where the heck they got him from? Is he a 'real' god or just the result of mixing Godzilla films and maotai? We may never know.

Glad to see the inclusion of Ma Yuan here.
He was one of the entries I liked best... so much, in fact, that he IS a God in my long-running 2e AD&D campaign world (kill enough Gods, and you get to join their ranks!).


Eric

What ? No pic of Aphrodite ??

From what I understand TSR used Cthulhu without permission of the Lovecraft foundation. TSR was sent an order to correct this and so they did.

I came across the particular book with Cthulhu for only $50...but that was 10 years ago.

I believe the Elric mythos was pulled from the second run as well.

I have this book somewhere.

Ah, what a great book. Got a copy of it in Chicago. Actually, I ended up with TWO, so if you would like a copy, PM me.

And yes, the original (A)D&D is still the best.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:For the living inspiration of all fantasy wizards Merlin ain't so hot either. Sure he's a magic-user/illusionist/druid but he only got up to 14th level. I bet Thrax my 5th level fighter/23rd level magic user could stomp him.

In Merlin's defense I will note that not only is this from the edition where levels actually meant something but you also overlooked his psionic ability which at 300 suggests a str of 150 which is incredibly potent.

Also, i have to add I absolutely love these walks down gaming history you do. They are immense fun.

Myrthe wrote:What ? No pic of Aphrodite ??

Indeed. If you're going to do a proper review, do it right ship shape Bristol fashion what what!

There are conflicting stories on what exactly happened there. One tale goes that Chaosium construed their publication rights as exclusive, and basically asked TSR to cease & desist. They cut a deal, but it involved an acknowledgment to Chaosium, which TSR (particularly the ever-reviled-by-lovers-of-old-D&D Brian Blume) decided was too much of a nod to a competitor.

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/deities.html

Moorcock later stated that he had given both companies permission, and was very laissez-faire about the game publication rights for his work.

http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-moorcock-on-d-and-more.html

Another story says that Chaosium & TSR cut a deal re: the Cthulu & Elric licenses & the Thieves’World license. But I tend to trust The Acaeum’s research; they’re pretty hardcore about this kind of stuff.

http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory3.phtml

Speaking of Godzilla-sized monsters… Guess who comes after China? Yep it's time for the main event!




I can't shed much light on the issue of rights. The copyright page only lists TSR as a rights holder, nothing on the Lovecraft estate, Michael Moorcock or Fritz Leiber owning their works. In the introduction there is a 'special thanks' to Chaosium for permission to use Cthulhu and Elric characters. As I noted before TSR reprinted the book without those two but it was a hasty change. Early reprints still references to them and even had the old page numbers. Eventually they reprinted the book as Legends and Lore without any reference to these lost chapters. So I figure there's 3 possiblities:
1 – TSR produced the book but did not think about rights until the last minute and luckily got permission from Chaosium.
2 – TSR had permission from Chaosium (who ahd the rights to develop games based on Cthulhu and Elric) but not from the authors.
3 – TSR had permission but soon decided it wasn't a good idea to promote someone else's IP.
Or it might be some combination of the 3. But enough with boring IPR stuff let's get back to elder gods!



Coming in at 100 feet tall (that's 30 feet more than Ma Yuan, Killer of the Gods) we have the sultan of squids, the oligarch of octopuses, the titan of tentacles DREAD CTHULHU! Dread Cthulhu not only has his 30 attacks, his 20th level magic user powers and his 400 hit points, if he is ever freed EVERYONE within 100 miles goes insane.

The only thing better than that is his stats in Call of Cthulhu where he just kills d6 characters a round. And if you drop a nuclear bomb on Dread Cthulhu he reforms a minute later. But now he's radioactive.
Ah Dread Cthulhu. Stay classy big guy, stay classy.

He's watching us you know.



Azathoth, Azathoth, round and round he spins!
Center of the Universe, insanity he brings!
Hey!


I hear they hired an artist to depict Azathoth but he ended up poking out his own eyes with paintbrushes and then chewing off his own fingers.

Despite having his size described as 'inconceivable' and a mass the size of a star Azathoth only has 20 attacks a round and 400 hit points.

And they really should have given him a few levels as a bard.



Hastur the Unspeakable is also called He Who Must Not Be Named. Which probably explains the rift opening behind me.

Opps.

Back in a minute!

Anyway, Lovecraft's writing was filled with mad narrators trying desperately to explain things that human senses and human language cannot accommodate. So when artists try to capture them on paper I think we can all understand if they sometimes end up looking like this:



Um yeah, it's a cucumber with wings.



Um OK.



Shub-Niggurath the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young actually does look kind of gross. But not really, y'know, scary. And the less we say about Yog-Sothoth the Key and Guardian of the Gate (and menace to Disney princesses)…



…the better.

By the way just in case you have any doubts what's going on here "in this shape he will mate with human beings, producing the Spawn of Yog-Sothoth" so yes. HP Lovecraft is in fact the inventor of tentacle rape. Something to think about next time you shake your finger at Japan.

And here I thought that octopus woodcut was the inventor of tentacle rape. Live and learn.

LOL i miss those old books and game adventures.... I still Run a campaign once in while of the slave pens of the underworld , that one module links too so many other ones its almost impossible to finish that campaign...



Makes me what to go to the second hand book store now and pick a few books and re live my child hood past at a catholic school..... during lunch recess...

Well now that we've had some time to forget the image of a Disney Princess frolicking through a field picking flowers only to suddenly be assaulted by the probing tentacles of Yog-Sothoth the Key and Guardian of the Gate let use move to healthier and happier pantheon.

EGYPT!



The art in Deities and Demigods is pretty hit or miss but the Egypt chapter is one of the better ones with crisp clear art. I assume it's by Jeff Dee from all the 'D' signatures. Ra is the big boss and he doesn't get any wimpy little clubs or spears, no he straight up zaps you with solar beams that "cannot be negated by any power in the universe". Except Kuan Yin I assume.



Horus also comes out as a pretty cool dude. He triples the power of any weapon he uses and is immune to the first blow from any weapon used against him. So if he picks up a 50 megaton warhead it counts as a 150 megaton warhead. He's also got a flat out 5% chance of aiding and good person seeking righteous vengeance. But why did they give him Paladin levels but make him lawful neutral?



I just really like this bit of art with the entire universe contained in Ptah's eyes. Quite cool.



So did TSR just decide to throw in some bare breasted women? Why yes. Yes they did.





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As surely as F follows E so too do Finnish myths follow Egyptian ones. I honestly know nothing about Finnish mythology but TSR's description of the Kalevala, Finland's epic story about the clash between the good Kalevala and the Pohjola land of evil wizardry, sounds fairly interesting.



This chapter breaks with the pattern by kicking off with a hero rather than the chief deity of the pantheon. Among Vainamoinen's many, many magical items (+5 battle axe, +3 sword of sharpness, magic sled, you get the idea) he had two magic crossbows that load and fire themselves. I kind of like the idea of him going all John Woo on the hoards of evil. I'd pay to see that film.



As with Tlazolteotl Goddess of Vice (q.v.) Loviatar Goddess of Hurt and Mistress of Pain is one of those characters I did not fully appreciate until I was 13. Ah Loviatar Goddess of Hurt and Mistress and Pain and her dungeons of pain of pleasure where the beautiful maidens of Finland are dragged to meet their unspeakable fates…

Sorry what were we talking about?

Oh yes, with 227 hp she's pretty fit for a mere demigoddess plus she has the rather nifty power of making you relive the most terrible injury you ever suffered. Hey Skullcrusher remember that time a Red Dragon got a crit on you? I bet you remember it now.



One problem with AD&D is trying to recreate the middle ages without Christianity. Who exactly do all these paladins in their shinning plate mail worship? Zeus? Well Ukko here is a good substitute. Lawful Good, big strong guy with a white beard, lives in the sky, has a flaming sword and has hosts of angels he'll send to help you out.



Though he's a bit cheap with his magic swords. I mean it seems to me if I get an NPC angel and then 'accidentally' get her killed I ought to be able to keep the sword. Am I right here?

I cannot wait for the Norse and, of course (!) the Elric pantheons...

Thank you for this!

Ah, dear Bast.
Oh, how I missed thy feline beauty.

I also used to have this book. I think the egyptian and norse were my favorite parts.

There was another book of "Demons and devils" or something like that. All I remember from that is Orcus, and his cool staff.

MagickalMemories wrote:Ah, dear Bast.
Oh, how I missed thy feline beauty.

Bah, you and I both know we spent all our time on Blibdoolpoolp...wait...just me?

Ah, so it was in fact Ancient Egypt who invented Furries.

Good to know!

John wrote:I also used to have this book. I think the egyptian and norse were my favorite parts.

There was another book of "Demons and devils" or something like that. All I remember from that is Orcus, and his cool staff.

There are stats for Orcus and many other demons and devils in the original "Monster Manual." Another fine item in my collection of D&D books of which I happen to have a duplicate. That plus Manual of the Planes, another really incredible book. The early sections of this book that explain how the multiverse works are mind-blowing and took the original game to a whole new level. IMHO, no similar work since has done the topic justice.

Vastly enjoying this trip down memory lane.

wow awesome, poor king arthur, but Merlin is pretty damn good for a first ed character could people even get to level 14 back then? I thought elves and dwarves were capped at 12 and only humans could advance beyond that. Now merlin would be like 20 sorc/20 wiz/5 archmage/15 epic mage.

Thor665 wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Ah, dear Bast.
Oh, how I missed thy feline beauty.

Bah, you and I both know we spent all our time on Blibdoolpoolp...wait...just me?

Well, in dim light, if you squinted and turned your head at just the right angle...
...umm... nevermind.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that 20 was the maximum level detailed under 1st edition (I'm pretty sure this is right) and yes, it was extremely hard to get to Name Level (12th and higher). And if Merlin was max level, well, it would mean that there was nothing more powerful than Merlin in the multiverse, more or less, which is silly.

Also don't you think it would be cool to be able to say, "Level 15 - YES! I'm a higher level than MERLIN! Come GET SOME!"

Solorg wrote:I think the thing to keep in mind is that 20 was the maximum level detailed under 1st edition (I'm pretty sure this is right) and yes, it was extremely hard to get to Name Level (12th and higher).

This is AD&D so there were racial level caps (since now elf wasn't the class and race all in one, ah the glory days when your alignment was either L, C, or N).

Druids and Assassins topped out at level 14.
Most of the demi-human races had class limits that were almost shameful (like 6-8th level) except in a few class/race combos (like half-orc Assassins or really just about every race as thieves for some reason) But they could multi-class.
Humans and other classes (like fighter or mage) were not capped at all and as I recollect the rulebook had info for taking them up into 21+ levels.

Of course this was when leveling up was actually difficult with none of the 3rd edition's XP scaling for encounters that basically means every ten sessions or so you level regardless of your level (and I bet 4.0 is about the same though actually I have no idea).

Now for another chapter I know people have been waiting for…



Got to give credit here to the designers, for a 30 year old book there's some nice touches. I've not been posting them but each chapter title has its own font that immediately sets the tone. They even remembered that a sigma is an 'S' not an 'E'! The art in this chapter by Jim Roslof even has a nice classical look with solid anatomy and good human forms.

So when we think of myths, we pretty much think of Ancient Greece first. I mean Classical Greece is the foundation of our literature, philosophy, science, architecture, art and history. Anything worth doing the Greeks did it first and did it best. They created Western Civilization and since Western Civilization is the best civilization (yeah China, that's right, I went there) that pretty makes them the best of the best.

So how do their gods stack up?



Yeah, Ruler of the Gods. Take that Shang-Ti Chairman of the Celestial Bureaucracy. That's how a real deity does it. 6-60 points of damage (+14 from his 25 strength) no wimpy little 3-26 hp damage attacks from the Ruler of the Gods.

Oh did I mention that if his blood touches the ground it turns into a random monster that fights for Zeus? Well it does. So there.

Our boy Skullcrusher might want to rethink his rash attack back at the start of this review.

How about his kids? How do they stack up?



Ah Aphrodite Goddess of Love, Beauty and Passion. Not much in a fight but she can charm anyone who wants to harm her. Oh she has her priorities straight, her female clerics need a Charisma of 15, but her male clerics, they need a Constitution of 16. If I haven't mentioned it before, writing this book must have been a total blast. I can just see them sitting around a table in Lake Geneva laughing their asses off and wondering how many kids will get that joke. I know I never did till tonight.



Y'know Apollo is just straight out the god of being awesome.


Ares was always my go-to pick for an evil god. Maybe it was too many Wonder Woman comics.



And Athena was my go-to for a good goddess. Yeah must have been Wonder Woman. Or the whole Athens/Sparta thing.



Not much to say about Bellerophon (10th level?) but I love that picture.



Now that is what Herc should look like. A big scary dude with a club and a fricking dead lion hanging off him. Not like Fabio in leather pants. Just saying here.

I could spend all night on the Greek chapter but it would mostly be "Look at that! It's awesome!" so let's move on.



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With India we hit one of the problematic chapters since TSR decided to take the Hindu deities and give them stats. It's one thing to give stats to Cthulhu or Zeus but there's something like 700 million Hindus in the world. I suppose Japan has the same issue with their Shinto deities but India is a bit more hardcore about these things, in India they've burnt down Christian homes and churches for putting up Christmas decorations. So I can't imagine that pointing out Skullcrusher can kill Vishnu is going to go over too well. But apparently TSR is braver than I am…



Indra, ruler of the gods comes out pretty well with a bow made out of rainbows that shoots lighting.



Kali, 'destruction incarnate' is only a lesser goddess. I guess goddess of destruction just ain't the peachy job I thought it was.

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We do back-to-back real religions hitting Japan next. The Japanese are bit more laid-back about these things as my Buddha hand-puppet can tell you.

I call him Chibi Daibutsu-Kun.

Deities and Demigods omits my favorite Shinto god, Inari God of Rice and Commerce. It's probably just as well because if you know anything about Japan you know that no one, NO ONE messes with the God of Rice. He probably has like bajillion hit points and that's just for starters.



Japan is one of the few places with a female deity in charge. And while Amaterasu Omikami is no match for Kuan Yin Goddess of Childbirth she can hold her own. She had the power to turn anything she touches into anything else. Only gods get a save, and they save at -8. Or she can just smack you for 1-100 points of damage.

And she's fully clothed! Go Japan!




Y'know, call me a snob but if you're doing art for Japanese gods, you might maybe want to find out what Japanese writing actually looks like. Copy off a fricking menu if you have to but come on!



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Come back tomorrow as we check in with Elric and the Melnidonean Mythos!