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Looking at the BA codex the other day, it looks like there is a lot of overlap between the two. Sternguard, Vanguard, Assault Terminators, Dreads, Devestators, etc are all shared between the two books. How do people think the two books will distinguish themselves? For example, the SM codex can do the full Biker Army, can twin-link a lot of stuff, and can give everything Stubborn or Fleet. What other role/niches can each army do that the other can't?

Try to keep the chicken-littleness to a minimum.

From reading the latest snazz on the Blood Angels.

It seems like the space marines codex won't have too many unique things that the BA and SW codexes share with them.

The only relevant thing that I see different is the space marine codex special characters and their different force multiplier rules.

Codex Marines can do a Biker army and have more options for Scouts (Telion, LSS). Further, they have Combat Tactics, which of course opens the option for Chapter Tactics with various special characters. Space Marines also have a few unique units other than special characters, such as the Master of the Forge or Thunderfire Cannon. The new Codex: Blood Angels certainly won't replace Codex: Space Marines completely, but it might make them somewhat less popular, as Blood Angels seem to do some things better-- perhaps including "generic mech army."

Fetterkey wrote:... as Blood Angels seem to do some things better-- perhaps including "generic mech army."

Yeah, I currently run plain jane Mech Marines, so I'm interested to see how well BA does that build.

SMs suck at being Assaulty. BA lack shooty Thunderfire.

One army is for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while needing a hair-cut and a shave.

The other army is for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while lookin' mighty pretty!

And there are the Black Templars, who are completely different to the above two, as they are for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while chanting oaths to the Emperor!



All of these armies are completely different. So different in fact that they required three completely separate Codices. Unlike, y'know, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Night Lords, who are all exactly the same.

I think the Vanilla Codex will always be the most versatile of the Space Marine Codexes. The Heretics - I mean, those who don't follow Codex Astartes - always seem to be more specialized. I haven't really been following the BA rumors because I don't plan on starting a BA army (because I highly doubt that Kor'sarro Khan will be in the BA book), so this is the first I've heard of them being able to do generic Mehreens better than the Vanilla Dex....
I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Blood Angels player "niche"
Bandwagon jumpers
Power gamers
People who like assault armies, but don't want to lose that +3 armor save by switching to Orks
People who like mobile armies, but don't want to lose that +3 armor save by switching to Eldar
People who like armor heavy armies, but...you know what, you get the idea.
World Eaters players who have given up.
Those with too much red paint
Those who like vampires a little too much (you know who you are)

Vanilla marine player niche
People who prefer a shooting based army
Those with not enough money to buy BA stuff.
People who want to say they are not bandwagon jumpers

H.B.M.C. wrote:One army is for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while needing a hair-cut and a shave.

The other army is for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while lookin' mighty pretty!

And there are the Black Templars, who are completely different to the above two, as they are for bloodthirsty lunatics who want to do nothing more than run forward screaming before ripping the enemy apart limb from limb with their bare hands all the while chanting oaths to the Emperor!



All of these armies are completely different. So different in fact that they required three completely separate Codices. Unlike, y'know, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Night Lords, who are all exactly the same.

You sir win a cookie. As for the OP question I think we will have a lot of people doing count as blood angels armies unless they want to use certain special characters.

Gornall wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:... as Blood Angels seem to do some things better-- perhaps including "generic mech army."

Yeah, I currently run plain jane Mech Marines, so I'm interested to see how well BA does that build.

I like plain mech myself, espescially scince you can take the master of the forge, and in one of the versions of my building block armies, there are 6 dreads, and putting 6 ap2 templates on enemy units is awe inspiring/terrifyng, so ba can suck my plasma cannons.

has any remembered the BA can deepstrike land raiders? i might have missed it sorry if you have

But that would require a tactical genius!

if BA has sternguard, i think i can put my codex marine is the shelf and wait for update. we do not have anything special now.

yes yes we still have thunderfire cannon, master of forge and bikers.... well are they really useful? i doubt that.

talking about chapter tactic.... stubborn and fleet is not that useful for codex marine. only powerful one is He'stan twin-link and kantor's hold up the line.

dpredator666 wrote:if BA has sternguard, i think i can put my codex marine is the shelf and wait for update. we do not have anything special now.

yes yes we still have thunderfire cannon, master of forge and bikers.... well are they really useful? i doubt that.

talking about chapter tactic.... stubborn and fleet is not that useful for codex marine. only powerful one is He'stan twin-link and kantor's hold up the line.

Better clear a space for it then. I've seen the book and they do.


I wish people would show some form of loyalty to their army. So many people are so focused on winning that they forget this is a game and that they should really just stick to what they have. That or they have so much disposable income they should really put more into charity or something.

There is a kid at my local shop that has just bought 2k of each army that has been released lately. He just creeps around and just buys what is amazing. To me, kids like this really put a wrench in the fun gears for themselves.

So BA have Sternguards, they can never score for them. So BA have fast vehicles that will most likely be seeing a discounted cost (see BA Assault Marines), I'll sit with my little Tactical squad and try and have fun.


My one and only beef in this book is that Baal Predators have Scout and are in Fast Attack.

How is a full battle tank scouting? I really don't understand this one.

The blood angel codex will have two new units. And a deep striking land raider. We must have a seperate book for them.

alexwars1 wrote:The blood angel codex will have two new units. And a deep striking land raider. We must have a seperate book for them.

"But the fluff? WHAT ABOUT THE FLUFF? NOOOOOOOO."


sigh

Luke_Prowler wrote:Blood Angels player "niche"
Bandwagon jumpers
Power gamers

So, are we going to see a lot of Tyranid armies on e-bay, do you think? Lol.

Asrodrig wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:Blood Angels player "niche"
Bandwagon jumpers
Power gamers

So, are we going to see a lot of Tyranid armies on e-bay, do you think? Lol.

Or hairy vampire/viking Space Angels.

taylorton147 wrote:has any remembered the BA can deepstrike land raiders? i might have missed it sorry if you have

Well it will probably end up being a "look shiny" thing. I doubt we will see it used for very long, unless it's LR trying to be a Drop Pod army

Deep Striking vehicles count as moving at Cruising Speed. So the turn they land, if their huge foot print hasn't made them mishap, they get to shoot one weapon with Power of the Machine Spirit. Then they have to survive the entire enemy army if they landed in the right spot. After that they're a normal LR and the tactics change back to the normal ones. If anything I just see it as a very expensive distraction, think Sternguard with Combi-Meltas in a Drop Pod only it costs probably 500+ points as the strongest unit will be thrown in there as an attempt to make the opponent panic as that seems to be it's main function. We'll see it at first like I said, but I expect tactics to quickly change to making it a rather expensive and not very effective points sink.

I supose the old IG Spearhead formation would be an alright counter to it, or even spreading out your forces to try to increase their change at mishapping. They would probably want to Deep Strike it in roughly 7" away if they wanted it to hit hard and early on, but avoid the mishap leaving them with a fairly large handicap against them. Just spread the anti-tank around like normal so no matter where it lands, there's going to be something just in range to take care of it. I don't remember seeing anything that would bring it in earlier as well so you might not even see that flying LR until much later in the game where it will probably work best. I guess keeping your army together rather than spreading them out a lot would work out better in that situation as on big target would be easier for them to mishap on and easier for you to counter against than multiple smaller groups which could be picked off easily.

Their version of the valk plus the Librarian Dread will probably be more of a threat. Dread's become much faster when they have a magic invisible plane to carry them everywhere and their main weakness before as they were fairly slow at chasing stuff down. Adding into it that they also have Fleet means they're probably the fastest Dreadnoughts ever. Also those Landraiders are dedicated transports, so they can do what BT do, but in Drop Pod form. I won't be surprised if I see atleast one LRaDP/LRDP/LRD (Land Raider as Drop Pod/Land Raider Drop Pod/Land Raider Drop, a term had to be invented sometime ) army within a few months of the codex's release.

kaptaink wrote:

dpredator666 wrote:if BA has sternguard, i think i can put my codex marine is the shelf and wait for update. we do not have anything special now.

yes yes we still have thunderfire cannon, master of forge and bikers.... well are they really useful? i doubt that.

talking about chapter tactic.... stubborn and fleet is not that useful for codex marine. only powerful one is He'stan twin-link and kantor's hold up the line.

Better clear a space for it then. I've seen the book and they do.


I wish people would show some form of loyalty to their army. So many people are so focused on winning that they forget this is a game and that they should really just stick to what they have. That or they have so much disposable income they should really put more into charity or something.

There is a kid at my local shop that has just bought 2k of each army that has been released lately. He just creeps around and just buys what is amazing. To me, kids like this really put a wrench in the fun gears for themselves.

So BA have Sternguards, they can never score for them. So BA have fast vehicles that will most likely be seeing a discounted cost (see BA Assault Marines), I'll sit with my little Tactical squad and try and have fun.


My one and only beef in this book is that Baal Predators have Scout and are in Fast Attack.

How is a full battle tank scouting? I really don't understand this one.

dude, i want to clarify one thing. i does not mean i wish to switch to BA. i simply put my codex marine on shelf to protest. i play codex marine since i started. and sternguard is pretty much a symbol of codex marine. now it is taken by another marine, and hey they are close-combat specalist!!!

it is not about winning or having a powerful army. it is about loyalty. BA can whatever fast unit they want and whatever melee-superb unit they want. that is fine. that is what they are. but taking sternguard? it does not make any sense at least to me. now codex marine has nothing unique. well some thunderfire, master of forge, full biker list. but those things won't make you proud as a codex marine.

so codex marine only have 2 things left:1. scoring Sternguard(sternguard again) 2. He'stan burning list. which means i do not have many choose. so i'd rather leave them on shelf.

kaptaink wrote:I wish people would show some form of loyalty to their army. So many people are so focused on winning that they forget this is a game and that they should really just stick to what they have. That or they have so much disposable income they should really put more into charity or something.

There is a kid at my local shop that has just bought 2k of each army that has been released lately. He just creeps around and just buys what is amazing. To me, kids like this really put a wrench in the fun gears for themselves.

So BA have Sternguards, they can never score for them. So BA have fast vehicles that will most likely be seeing a discounted cost (see BA Assault Marines), I'll sit with my little Tactical squad and try and have fun.

Done with that soapbox? Loyalty to a group of little plastic army men is not something I would put that much stock into.

Sure beats a huge pile of "OMG Nu Stuffs" sitting in boxes in the courner unpainted because the next bandwagon arrived in town. Not to say there's anything wrong with the new stuff, I'm sure many people have seen that one awesome model or squad and decided that that would be a nice army to start, but to an extent loyalty to an army stops you from making stupid impulse buys leaving you with a pile of stuff you don't really want two weeks later.

Although some of them are annoying, basically preaching how awesome the new ones are one month then the next it's the new ones turn. I really don't care though, they can do what they like

n0t_u wrote:Sure beats a huge pile of "OMG Nu Stuffs" sitting in boxes in the courner unpainted because the next bandwagon arrived in town. Not to say there's anything wrong with the new stuff, I'm sure many people have seen that one awesome model or squad and decided that that would be a nice army to start, but to an extent loyalty to an army stops you from making stupid impulse buys leaving you with a pile of stuff you don't really want two weeks later.

Although some of them are annoying, basically preaching how awesome the new ones are one month then the next it's the new ones turn. I really don't care though, they can do what they like

I'll admit that a little impulse control is a good thing. However, if a new army comes around that someone wants to play, good on them. Personally, I'm waiting on Inquisition and Tau to be updated. I've always wanted to try those armies out, but their weaknesses in a competitive environment is holding me back.

The vanilla marine codex has under-performed in competitive (no/low comp) tournaments. I know BA is supposed to be an assault army but all those fast tanks may make a mech, scoot and shoot army, more viable than a pure assault army.

olympia wrote:The vanilla marine codex has under-performed in competitive (no/low comp) tournaments. I know BA is supposed to be an assault army but all those fast tanks may make a mech, scoot and shoot army, more viable than a pure assault army.

This.

At first I was worried about mephiston in the codex, but with the rumor that he is not an IC, he doesnt bother me anymore.

Now im worried about 6 pred 6 razorback lists.

3 triple las preds, 6 TLLC razorbacks, 3 flamestorm Baals, an easy fit in 1850, scout move flat out Baals up close to transports, first turn align baals up to transports, blast them open with lascannon spam, nuke the guys inside with flamestorms.

Demogerg wrote:

olympia wrote:The vanilla marine codex has under-performed in competitive (no/low comp) tournaments. I know BA is supposed to be an assault army but all those fast tanks may make a mech, scoot and shoot army, more viable than a pure assault army.

This.

At first I was worried about mephiston in the codex, but with the rumor that he is not an IC, he doesnt bother me anymore.

Now im worried about 6 pred 6 razorback lists.

3 triple las preds, 6 TLLC razorbacks, 3 flamestorm Baals, an easy fit in 1850, scout move flat out Baals up close to transports, first turn align baals up to transports, blast them open with lascannon spam, nuke the guys inside with flamestorms.

I've been saying this all along. 6 AV13 tanks + 6 AV11 tanks is going to be complete, and utter hell.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out on the battlefield!