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So I've been running a Mechvets list for a while and finding Demolishers to be quite underwhelming. So I'm looking at switching to:

(BTW the Special Weapon loadout has worked well for me even though most people say don't mix and match specials)


HQ:

CCS w/ 4 Meltaguns (rides in Vendetta)
CCS w/ 4 Meltaguns (rides in Vendetta)

TROOPS:

Vet Squad w/ 2x Plasmaguns, 1x Meltagun, 1x Autocannon in Chimera w/ Hull HF
Vet Squad w/ 2x Plasmaguns, 1x Meltagun, 1x Autocannon in Chimera w/ Hull HF
Vet Squad w/ 2x Plasmaguns, 1x Meltagun, 1x Autocannon in Chimera w/ Hull HF
Vet Squad w/ 2x Plasmaguns, 1x Meltagun, 1x Autocannon in Chimera w/ Hull HF

ELITES:

Psyker Battle Squad (9 Psykers w/ Overseer) in Chimera

HEAVY SUPPORT:

3x Hydras w/ Hull Heavy Bolters
Manticore w/ Hull Heavy Flamer
Manticore w/ Hull Heavy Flamer

FAST ATTACK:

Vendetta
Vendetta


This gives me a better punch vs. Hordes than I had with the Russes, and allows me to deal easily with non-fearless Death Star units via the PBS.

I also wasn't running the Vet Squads with Autocannons but I had 40 points left over and realized that against MSU low-AV armies (Dark Eldar in particular), an extra 8 S7 shots really help. The problem with those MSU armies is the number of targets they present. Hydras will kill the utter living gak out of 1 thing, as will Manticores. But when you have 3 Ravagers and 9 Venoms flying around, you need to be able to target multiple units at range. The Autocannons allow those Vets to target 8 units per turn, including the transports' multilasers.

personally, im totally fine with mixing specials. it just seems to me that the autocannons would not be firing very much as they'll be bouncing inside the chimera. for them to shoot, you would have to keep a couple transports stationary and against armies with higher AV vehicles, the cannon won't do much to deter it from its course....but hey, give it a shot and see.

SoliderSnake wrote:personally, im totally fine with mixing specials. it just seems to me that the autocannons would not be firing very much as they'll be bouncing inside the chimera. for them to shoot, you would have to keep a couple transports stationary and against armies with higher AV vehicles, the cannon won't do much to deter it from its course....but hey, give it a shot and see.

Gotcha...against higher AV armies they aren't so hot but my biggest worry is AV10 and AV11 spam, with a nod to AV12 Riflemen.

My problem is with Dark Eldar (especially Venom spam), I can't target *enough* enemy units to do sufficient damage. Adding autocannons essentially doubles the units that I can target on first turn and second turn shooting. Obviously once the enemy gets close it's a different story but it's 10 points ea. for a pretty significant bump.

I like the list. I wouldnt mix the plasmas and melta personally.. but i guess you are aware of that comment I would prefer 3 vets w/ 3x plasma and 1 w/ 3x melta in your list.

Other than that i think its pretty optimal, the autocannons i think are ok, they add some options for staying parked at range initially vs some opponents. Not much else to got for the 40 pts - well except you could drop the autos + 1 hydra and get third vendetta.

How are the 3 hydras doing for you?
And whats the reason you prefer mixing the specials in the vet squads?

My current list (im building the army presently) is VERY similar to yours, for comparison/inspiration:

HQ
Company Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x Plasma, Officer of the Fleet (195)
Company Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x Plasma (165)

ELITE
Psyker Battle Squad w/ Chimera - 7 Psykers + Overseer (145)

TROOPS
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x Plasma (170)
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x Melta (155)
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x Melta (155)
Veterans w/ Chimera - 3 x Melta (155)

FAST
Vendetta (130)
Vendetta (130)
Vendetta (130)

HEAVY
Manticore (160)
Manticore (160)
2 x Hydra (150)

TOTAL: 2000

How would both of you tool those lists down to 1750pts?

Varl Sigmund wrote:How would both of you tool those lists down to 1750pts?

I would say take out one hydra and cut back on a few psykers.

Muck, that's very similar.

So far the 3 Hydras have been...interesting. They put out a lot of shots and due to squadron rules, can almost always draw LOS without moving. Also, having 3 members in the squadron means that Eldar and Dark Eldar, the armies that really have a problem with them, have to kill them up close because single lance shots can be piled up on one model until it's destroyed, and one hydra is usually enough to smoke most vehicles. They're also good for shooting up units at long range that are usually a major PITA like Long Fangs.

The reasoning for overloading that slot so heavily is that they're cheap enough, and I want my other slots occupied by other things that are usually best taken in doubles and either can't or shouldn't be squadroned: Manticores or Russes. You also need 3 to ensure damage results on AV12 vehicles like Storm Ravens and Valks/Vendettas.

On the other hand, there's a few drawbacks. They get pulped in melee (duh) and they can only fire at one target. So they can kill the feth out of one Venom or Raider, but only one. In addition, 3 of them takes up a lot of space (in your foam and on the table). But I think the price of the unit (225 points) is low enough that, above 1,500, you might as well take 3.


The Specials are mixed mostly for versatility. I play in a Terminator and Heavy Infantry-heavy meta and 3 Melta Guns don't put out enough firepower to force enough saves to really hurt Terminators. Conversely, while Plasma Guns work OK for shooting up AV10 and AV11, they aren't so hot for shooting up AV12+. It's nice to be able to threaten a Land Raider with every Troops choice in the army while retaining the firepower and range. And yes, I end up losing probably 6 of those plasma gunners every fething game to overheats...they're notorious in my FLGS.


Why an OotF and not an Astropath? Concerned about first turn beatdowns by Drop Pod / DS armies?


BTW what do you think of dropping one Vet squad for a 20 Man Powerblob + Commissar w/ PW? Same amount of points, so it'd be a straight up swap, and give me some bubblewrap and counterassault options?

the OotF i would like to include mostly to make it less reliable for people to go into reserves as an option against me when going second. And also to making it harder to outflank units where they want them. Well and also to get pod / DS / wolf-scouts meltas in later. Im not completely sold on the fleet officer though. Whats your thoughts on him?

I think the powerblob option sounds pretty good. And fun too. How would you equip it? Would you give power weapon to the infantry squad sergeants as well? and what about melta guns and melta bombs? And what about the PCS. Could you make a list including it, to see.

LordofMuck wrote:the OotF i would like to include mostly to make it less reliable for people to go into reserves as an option against me when going second. And also to making it harder to outflank units where they want them. Well and also to get pod / DS / wolf-scouts meltas in later. Im not completely sold on the fleet officer though. Whats your thoughts on him?

I think the powerblob option sounds pretty good. And fun too. How would you equip it? Would you give power weapon to the infantry squad sergeants as well? and what about melta guns and melta bombs? And what about the PCS. Could you make a list including it, to see.

Isn't the Astropath the guy that screws with enemy reserves, and the OotF boosts your own?

I like them. The friendly reserves-boosting one (OotF I think) has screwed me once or twice when I was running Marbo but it's nice if you're going to play the Reserves Game against a Pod or DS list. The Astropath is pretty obnoxious to armies like Dark Eldar that want to play the Reserves game with you, breaking their army up into very...very manageable pieces.

If you're going to take them, I think the Astropath (the one that screws your opponent) is better. I'm more concerned with forcing opponents to play the Reserves game than playing it myself. We can always castle up an AV12 wall. But a Drop Pod army, Deathwing (Deep Striking), Dark Eldar, Eldar...basically anyone who wants to reserve against you is going to get brutally hosed. Nutty firepower (Hydras, Manticores, and Vendettas, PBS) and reserves shenangens are really where the "Leafblower" term came from.

Its the officer of the fleet that "intercepts" enemy reserves (-1 plus may force to re-roll the side for outflanking). I agree that he is more important than own side reserves boosting (astropath) for exactly the reasons you stated.

Yeah... problem with Drop pods... half of them come in (round down) on turn 1, rest of them come in from reserves as normal. So really, the OotF doesn't do much to a Drop pod Player unless his entire list or half his list is coming in on them. Still, you probably need him since you have /nothing/ back there defending your heavy support.

But, your list has a huge flaw....

To be honest, your /super/ light on infantry at 1850pts. 2/3s of the games, they blow up 4 Chimeras and they win, because those troops will not survive the explosion. I mean, I have seen Marine lists with more scoring units at 1850pts... and you ain't marines.