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So, I just played a game against a Tau player at my FLGS. For a while now, ive been suspecting somthings up. So today, after another huge loss I bought the Tau book and found out this-

At 750 points, he plays with 958.
At 1000, he plays with 1501.
His commander shadowsun is only toughness 3, not five, and has 3 wounds, not 5.
A riptides large blast gun is not twin linked.
Every drone does not come with markerlights,
Drones are BS 2 (mostly), not BS 3.
Shield drones have a 4+ invuln., not a 3+
shield drones do not have a 2+ armor save.
Every model does NOT have interceptor/skyfire.
A crisis suit cannot fire 4 weapons a turn.
Markerlights are heavy 1, not assault.
Seeker missles are not unlimited.
And finally, bonding knife ritual does NOT allow a unit to automatically regroup.

I may be wrong on a few points, but ive fought against the same 2 lists of his, and have a good understanding of what he's using.
He's not a bad guy, or a WAAC guy, but I think he just really likes to have a numerical advantage... as I play IG, however, it never really happens.
Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

Well, you either tell him before the game when I imagine he'll ask you for one.

Or, you start the game, and correct every single mistake he makes, including math errors on his list.

Anytime you think something is up, ask to look it up in the book, and show you, or read it yourself.

If it gets bad, just walk away.

Seeing as you've played him multiple times, he is obviously aware that he is cheating. Walk up and tell him. Don't go as far as to cause a scene but get your point across that cheating is just downright disrespectful, and won't be tolerated. If he wants to play in the future make it known to him that you have a copy of his codex and will be monitoring for errors.

He may occasionally misstate something but if he is serious about playing at your store he will correct all of those things.

What you stated is above and beyond blatant cheating and has to be either corrected or removed.

Why didn't you just ask to see his book in the first place instead of spending the 50 odd?

 Blacksails wrote:

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

Well, you either tell him before the game when I imagine he'll ask you for one.

Or, you start the game, and correct every single mistake he makes, including math errors on his list.

Anytime you think something is up, ask to look it up in the book, and show you, or read it yourself.

If it gets bad, just walk away.

Ive tried correcting him on his mistakes, but he mostly just B.S's his way out of it. A Fireblades markerlight is mounted on a pulse rifle, so it benefits from volley fire, right? Right...

Honestly though, mostly when I point this stuff out he's cool about it. Its the points that I really don't know how to deal with, however. I don't want to just come out and say "your cheating".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
Why didn't you just ask to see his book in the first place instead of spending the 50 odd?

Well I didn't exactly buy it... sorry about that. Im actually borrowing it from a friend, for this exact purpose.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:


I don't want to just come out and say "your cheating".

You may very well have to.

Now, I know nothing about you, or him, or your history with him, or your group, or anything.

But, and this is my own personal opinion, I do not stand for cheating in any amount. Mistakes happen, but every player should have a written out list with points written next to it, and free access to your opponent's book when asked for.

One or two minor quibbles here or there, honest mistakes, forgetfulness and other small issues are nothing to be worried about. But that laundry list you posted is significantly beyond the scope of good-natured mistakes. Cheaters will continue to push the limit until someone calls them out. It may sound harsh, but a zero tolerance policy is the best policy.

Obviously there are social nuances to approaching this, but a forum is not suitable for that discussion, and ultimately rests on your social skills and relationship with this person.

Refuse games with cheaters. They get the message, typically.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

Simple, call him a cheaty grox turd and expose him in front of the entire store.

Its the only way he'll stop doing what he's doing.

Really, he just started playing about four months ago. He was new, super excited, loved the game, the background, ect. In fact, I played his second game with him, and beat him... pretty badly. Not on purpose, but just through bad luck on his part. Just lately ive been noticing these pretty big mistakes. He's played many games against all 9 or so people at our store, and all of us agree that his lists seem a bit... overpowered.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
Really, he just started playing about four months ago. He was new, super excited, loved the game, the background, ect. In fact, I played his second game with him, and beat him... pretty badly. Not on purpose, but just through bad luck on his part. Just lately ive been noticing these pretty big mistakes. He's played many games against all 9 or so people at our store, and all of us agree that his lists seem a bit... overpowered.

Ask for a list and the book.

Explain that you think he's cheating and want to check.

If he refuses, find another games.

If he agrees, confirm if it is over, and ask him to correct it.

Do that for several games until he gets it, but always ask for a list with point values clearly denoted.

As for the rule issues; deal with them as they pop up. Acquaint yourself with the codex, the BRB, and the relevant FAQs.

So you're frustrated but for some reason feel bad? Him losing at the start does NOT make a difference. I lost every game starting out, now I have better than a 50/50 win rate lately. Why are you still feeling you need to explain to us? It's blatant cheating. I can deal with a few points over(like 1%), but there's no way in hell he doesn't know he's cheating, and it is NOT a "mistake", it is ON PURPOSE!

Call him on it, stop playing him, or decide you're just going to let him get away with cheating. Those are your options, but stop trying to feel like a bad person because some donkey-cave is cheating.

Call him on it and tell him he needs to fix it or to move on. Cheating is cheating and it's obvious to everyone.

I have never understood the problem honest people have with calling out a cheater.

The best way to deal with an unrepentant cheater is to simply not deal with them.

OR, play him at his own game.

If it is pretty darn obvious that he is cheating, even if he is a newer player, agree to play him and Cheat him just as hard as he is to you. When I was new I spent tons of time figureing out the rules, and STILL work on them, ignorance is no excuse to not learn.

Now I am probably gonna get some bad feedback on this, but I'm willing to bet some of these players will not give any respect unless you do it right back for a game. Pad your list, when he asks to see it ask to see his, correct each others mistakes, and if he knows your more than you are supposed to be then he probably knows the rules better than he is letting on...

And do it somewhat civil.. wait for him to pull something on ya, and then pull it right back with something else on your side. IF or rather WHEN he calls you out on it, see his reaction, and pull the same reaction right back for his next cheat move.

The moment it escalates past that, walk away. Cause if he knows enough to actually cheat, he probably is just going to keep pushing it to see how far he can get.

Given that he's new, it could just be newbie errors in assuming that because one thing works one way for one army, a similar thing works the same way in the other armies.

For example, when I was new to the game, I played against an Ork army that was using some Burnaz. The Ork player activated some Burnaz in melee at one point, so naturally I assumed that all flamer weapons did the same thing in melee and began using my Space Marines' flamers as power weapons, until I was corrected on the matter a few games later.

As for the points values, maybe he's just really, really bad at math, or didn't include the points cost of the upgrades he's taking, instead just assuming that the base points cost of a unit is all it costs. (I've been known to miss things like that before. A weird example is a package of jalapeno turkey. I was looking at it through the clear plastic, and trying to figure out why It had red dots all over the meat. I read the label as thoroughly as I could, multiple times, but absolutely failed to see the size 12 font declaring the jalepeno flavor, until I took it to my dad and asked him why the meat was so weird, and he saw the flavor label in less than 5 seconds. Other examples of obliviousness have occurred as well.)

The only thing you might be wrong with is the fact that Shadowsuns drones ar 3++ but yeah, cheater cheater pumpkin eater.

We had a cheating Tau player at my FLGS, he doesn't normally play in the store but his friend came in and told me a lot about his experience playing against Tau armies. Immediately we noticed something off, He was still using broadsides as S10, numerous old rules that had been changed. And a couple other things. When he came to the store we all called him out on it and all was well.

If he's playing Tau he probably doesn't need any more advantages - I'd call him out.

If i'm being honest, I expect the same in return.

It's like when you mention to your opponent if they missed something (in a friendly, not a competitive scene) like say, that weapon is rending or these guys are out of cover ect, ect. Usually my opponent will help cover me if I forget anything that they happen to recall... Then again, 40K rules are pretty much the one thing that I can remember over anything else (like important job-related information)

You could go the passive route, feign interest in playing Tau. Say you got the codex, then when you start to play casually bring up point values and the abilities of the units.

It's very passive aggressive but it's a good method for doing it.

Confront him in a calm and courteous manner. If he's belligerent and rude about it, then don't play with him.

I'd refuse to play him and tell him why. The games are pointless with his level of cheating.

Look since you aren't taking my previous advice here is your new advice.

Start the game, when you start to play him after he makes up a rule and it is your turn. Make gak up. Just be like " Yeah uh that's a special character okay rolling 10d6 for SD radius Blast".

When he's like " What theres no way "

Just say the following " Oh I thought because of your example we were just making up stupid bs fantasy land figures, and not relying on rules. My bad."

"Hey, ___ good to see you. Got a minute for me? I'll get straight to the point. In our recent games, I was under the impression that you made some errors in your list calculation or in regards to some in-game values. List-building and remembering numbers can be hard sometimes but I suggest we double-check our numbers if we are not sure. How does that sound to you?"

Have some examples ready to back you up.

If he then goes full defensive and feels offended:

"Okay, that is your point of view, but I want to have a fair game of 40k that's fun for both players. I'm sorry that we cannot agree on this but I am sure you will find other people to play with."

Then immediately back away and do NOT start a discussion. Tell other players in the store about him and his behavior. Always be the better man. Don't go in like "You're a cheater! Everyone looook! A CHEEEEEEATER!" as this will make you look bad as well. Be nice, but clear in your approach. Don't argue, just state your points and offer him an alternative to his behavior.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
So, I just played a game against a Tau player at my FLGS. For a while now, ive been suspecting somthings up. So today, after another huge loss I bought the Tau book and found out this-

At 750 points, he plays with 958.
At 1000, he plays with 1501.
His commander shadowsun is only toughness 3, not five, and has 3 wounds, not 5.
A riptides large blast gun is not twin linked.
Every drone does not come with markerlights,
Drones are BS 2 (mostly), not BS 3.
Shield drones have a 4+ invuln., not a 3+
shield drones do not have a 2+ armor save.
Every model does NOT have interceptor/skyfire.
A crisis suit cannot fire 4 weapons a turn.
Markerlights are heavy 1, not assault.
Seeker missles are not unlimited.
And finally, bonding knife ritual does NOT allow a unit to automatically regroup.

I may be wrong on a few points, but ive fought against the same 2 lists of his, and have a good understanding of what he's using.
He's not a bad guy, or a WAAC guy, but I think he just really likes to have a numerical advantage... as I play IG, however, it never really happens.
Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

There's cheating, and then there's playing blackjack while everyone else is playing poker.

This is a massive amount of cheating and you need to stop it now before he thinks he can get away with it.

This thread needs a poll.

Best way is if you have a ref. I'm glad that at our FLGS, the owner is a knowledgeable guy on 40k, knows a lot about each army. Sometimes it's good to have that third point of view.

Otherwise, ask to see his list and pull your book out.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
So, I just played a game against a Tau player at my FLGS. For a while now, ive been suspecting somthings up. So today, after another huge loss I bought the Tau book and found out this-

At 750 points, he plays with 958.
At 1000, he plays with 1501.
His commander shadowsun is only toughness 3, not five, and has 3 wounds, not 5.
A riptides large blast gun is not twin linked.
Every drone does not come with markerlights,
Drones are BS 2 (mostly), not BS 3.
Shield drones have a 4+ invuln., not a 3+
shield drones do not have a 2+ armor save.
Every model does NOT have interceptor/skyfire.
A crisis suit cannot fire 4 weapons a turn.
Markerlights are heavy 1, not assault.
Seeker missles are not unlimited.
And finally, bonding knife ritual does NOT allow a unit to automatically regroup.

I may be wrong on a few points, but ive fought against the same 2 lists of his, and have a good understanding of what he's using.
He's not a bad guy, or a WAAC guy, but I think he just really likes to have a numerical advantage... as I play IG, however, it never really happens.
Now, how do I go about telling him all this..

This isn't cheating as far as I can see, it's just not being knowledgable of the rules. No need to name and shame or do any of the other suggested things - play the guy again, watch him and when he makes a mistake correct him and show him the rules in the codex, no stress, no hassle we're all groovy.

Ask for lists with point costs listed. Tell him before the game.

Don't let him BS his way through anything. Have him show you in the book or no dice.


While you still have the codex you borrowed, write down all of the stat lines of units, costs of everything, weapon ranges, and so on.

Best of luck.

We do list or deck checks , before the game. Asking if someone had a legal army post factum is a moot thing to do.