Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello, I was on the GW website and I was looking through the armies list and while I know who and what each army is I don't understand why some are lacking in terms of unit types and variety. I don't understand how each army plays a role and who they essentially work with. For example:

1. Militarum Tempestus: Do they work with the Astra Militarum? (Don't know why GW changed the name from Imperial Guard.) Do they go together, and GW just organized it separately?
2. Adeptus Soritas: They are the daughters of the Emperor, but they don't feel like a complete army. Are you supposed to only get a few units and use them with other Imperial armies?
3. What is the Officio Assasinorum? Again, not a complete army, or enough to be one.
4. Is there a difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar?
5. The difference between Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, and the Inquisition.

I do know when GW created 40k they took many of the ideas right from the regular Warhammer. Knights became Space Marines, Orks became Orks, Elves became Eldar, etc. (Most of them have a counterpart.) But I am not sure what each of these Imperial Branches do, considering they don't have enough pieces or units for an army. Unless, are they expanding them in time? Also, I feel armies like the Imperial Guard are lacking in unit variety. Unless that is just me. The Space Marines, Tau, Tyranid for sure, Orks, Necrons, and Eldar are all pretty good in variety. Whatever happened to the Imperial Guard Kaskrin Squad? They were badass!

1. Militarum Tempestus are an Elite choice for Guard that has rules for a stand alone force that is made primarily to ally with other armies.
2. Sisters haven't seen an update since 3rd and have lost models since then.
3. Assassains can be taken as an army (you can fit something like 13-15 in a 1500 point list) but are best taken as allies.
4. Eldar are the Eldar who left their home worlds before Slaanesh was birthed and adopted a new way of living so it didn't happen again, Dark Eldar stayed in their hedonistic ways and live in the Webway which is what the Eldar (both kinds) use to travel faster than the speed of light.
5. Grey Knights are a special Marine chapter that fights Daemons, Imperial Knights are fleshy mortals in big stompy robots that serve the Imperium in a number of different ways (some even serving as part of crusades and so on), and the Inqusition is the Imperium's secret police. They root out heresy, deal with (and kill) xenos, and fight Daemon incursions. Mostly squishy mortals as well.

And yes, it started as Warhammer IN SPACE but it's changed a lot since then.

And some armies (like the Inquisition) can form small, incomplete armies on their own, but work best allied to another Imperial (like Guard, or Marines) to represent a theme.

Kaskrin became the Militarum Tempestus. They are the new Storm Troopers with Hotshot Lasrifles and Carapace Armor. Kasrkin was Cadian only and Tempestus are a more general type. I like the concept more in general but yes, Kasrkin were friggin awesome and I do miss the good ole commandos.

Sisters of Battle are their own army. They come from the 'Witch Hunter' codex of a while back. They are not adding things and have always been a small type of army but they also don't need additions.

Assassins were either part of Witch Hunters too or Grey Knights codex but obviously they're not Grey Knights and have no business there. Same with Inquisition. They are also not Grey Knights. And let's say I want to make an Imperial Guard list with an Inquisitor or an Assassin. Nope, not allowed. Have to include Grey Knights. Seperate get them means that I can take them if I want them for any army I like. I have an assassin that runs with my Eldar because it can now.

Eldar are fast and strong like a long sword, Dark Eldar are fast and precise like a scalpel. You're going to die by both, but one is more precise. Dark Eldar are also more challenging to play because of how many things have to work in concert whereas Eldar are easier to make work together.

Grey Knights are anti-demon specialists, Imperial Knights are like mercenary Titans in a rent-a-warmachine service and the Inquisition is like US Marshal coming into town, killing things and then leaving like a bad 80s TV show. Again, like the Assassin, it is meant to be taking easily with any army of mankind. Can't do that when it is tied to a single army since mankind isn't united under one banner on the table.

Assassins had a stand alone codex (it came in the WD but wasn't printed in the WD) back in the day but got rolled into Sisters/Grey Knights with the Inquisition back in 3rd.

Thank you to all, that was very informative. Man you guys know your 40k history. Know where I can find a brief history for all races besides the rules book? I know Space Marines very well, and have a general understanding of the Imperium, but not all the other armies.

My advice is to hit up the 40k wiki. There is a ton of lore and some conflicts (Example Iron Hands).

There are at least a few 40k wikis; my personal favourite is Lexicanum.

timebandit3077 wrote:
Hello, I was on the GW website and I was looking through the armies list and while I know who and what each army is I don't understand why some are lacking in terms of unit types and variety. I don't understand how each army plays a role and who they essentially work with. For example:

4. Is there a difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar?
5. The difference between Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, and the Inquisition.

Eldar vs. Dark Eldar -- Yes. One exists in realspace, the other in warpspace. The two started out as one race, and took different paths after the Fall -- one is essentially good, the other is esentially evil (think high and dark elves). Both ranges have complete, distinct models. There is no shortcoming in the DE faction, other than that it is relatively weak.

The problem with Inquisistion is that there aren't enough models or rules to make it a faction. I suppose they could be rolled into Grey Knights. But there aren't plastic Inquisition models, and no rumors of an Inquisition revival, so it's irrelevant at the moment. I think you could roll Inquisition, perhaps, as some type of ally to Sisters? They are both mostly abandoned ultra-xenophobes, after all I know: female Inquisitors!!

The problem with Imperial Knights is that, excluding forgeworld models, there's only 2 variants of 1 model, and 6 pages of rules. >.< But, they are quite distinct from Grey Knights in terms of fluff and everything else. After all, you don't get any less psychic than IK, which is the whole meme of the GK.

Inq started in Grey Knights but left so people could ally the Inq into their army without needing Grey Knight.

Cool stuff thanks guys. I have another question. Besides the army formations, why do Space Marines have many more choices of units than any other army. This is according to the drop down tab on the GW website for Space Marines. Space Wolves only have two options compared to Blood Angels, what happened to all their special units like the actual wolves? Also, does each army have to do with popularity? Most of the main armies, Space Marines, IG, Tyranid, Orks, Necrons, Tau, and Eldar seem to be the main forces.

Space Marines have more stuff because they get an update every single edition. Six editions of stuff so far is crammed into that book. That also means releases every edition so far too.

Now I'm not sure what you mean with the questions about the Blood Angels and Space Wolves. Can you clarify?

And no, popularity doesn't really tie into how many different kits a faction has as much as how many times the codex has been updated with new models (as in a few cases, like with Orks and Necrons options were removed when they got updates).

And what do you mean by "main forces"?

one thing to rememebr as well is that space Marines also have a multitude of units that are used by other armies as well. assault Marines, for example, are used by space marines, space wolves, dark angels and blood angels armies. just for example.

Once upon a time, there were the Witch Hunters - and it was good. We had the Inquisition, Adepta Sororitas, Deathcults and Storm troopers - all one big happy family.

Then GW went all Yoko Ono and broke up the band. SoB got their own codex, and lost a lot of the goodies (yet their models - being the original ones from forever ago - still have the Inqisition "I" on them). Inquisition joined up with Grey Knights, and they evolved into their own Codex/branch. Assassins got rolled under them (and now into their own minor branch for vindicare and the like) and plasma troopers stayed tied to the IG codex (Kasirs).


Now - as luck would have it - you can build an old-school Witch hunters army. Sisters will ally with Inquisition, which is a "neutral" force that doesn't take the allies slot. That gives you inquisitors, henchmen and assassins. Then you take Militarum Tempestus (Storm toopers - Kasrkin) to get your plasma troopers back. Mix in the fact that you can now use allied transports, you've got full access to all the Inquisition/Imperial Navy stuff.

So...we're right back where we started. In some ways, with this new ally matrix and emphasis on psy powers, you can make a very strong hybrid army.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Sisters of Battle are their own army. They come from the 'Witch Hunter' codex of a while back. They are not adding things and have always been a small type of army but they also don't need additions.

Assassins were either part of Witch Hunters too or Grey Knights codex but obviously they're not Grey Knights and have no business there. Same with Inquisition. They are also not Grey Knights. And let's say I want to make an Imperial Guard list with an Inquisitor or an Assassin. Nope, not allowed. Have to include Grey Knights. Seperate get them means that I can take them if I want them for any army I like. I have an assassin that runs with my Eldar because it can now.

Sisters were a standalone army that had a codex before the Witch Hunters where they were tied into the Inquisition's service more. Assassins were in both Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters codices.

 n0t_u wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Sisters of Battle are their own army. They come from the 'Witch Hunter' codex of a while back. They are not adding things and have always been a small type of army but they also don't need additions.

Assassins were either part of Witch Hunters too or Grey Knights codex but obviously they're not Grey Knights and have no business there. Same with Inquisition. They are also not Grey Knights. And let's say I want to make an Imperial Guard list with an Inquisitor or an Assassin. Nope, not allowed. Have to include Grey Knights. Seperate get them means that I can take them if I want them for any army I like. I have an assassin that runs with my Eldar because it can now.

Sisters were a standalone army that had a codex before the Witch Hunters where they were tied into the Inquisition's service more. Assassins were in both Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters codices.

Assassins were a stand alone thing at one point too. Their codex was bundled with the WD once upon a time.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Assassins were a stand alone thing at one point too. Their codex was bundled with the WD once upon a time.

Still are The officia assaniorum (sp) has it's own dataslate, but will find references to it in things like the Inquisition codex as well.

The only problem I have with the new books is that before we had an army with one codex. It could suck or it could rock. But the newone book armies are rather horrible and they get ok, only if someone starts using ally and formations or FW.

GW seems to want everyone to ally with someone else these days.

I've just started getting back into the play side of the game, and when I come with a AS+INQ+MT+OA+IK/GK layout...people look at me funny. Not my fault that they spread what used to be a cohesive list across 4-5 different source materials :|

 ncshooter426 wrote:
GW seems to want everyone to ally with someone else these days.

I've just started getting back into the play side of the game, and when I come with a AS+INQ+MT+OA+IK/GK layout...people look at me funny. Not my fault that they spread what used to be a cohesive list across 4-5 different source materials :|

I feel your pain. My old Daemonhunters army is now GK, Inquisition, D99, and Assassinorium.

timebandit3077 wrote:
Hello, I was on the GW website and I was looking through the armies list and while I know who and what each army is I don't understand why some are lacking in terms of unit types and variety. I don't understand how each army plays a role and who they essentially work with. For example:

1. Militarum Tempestus: Do they work with the Astra Militarum? (Don't know why GW changed the name from Imperial Guard.) Do they go together, and GW just organized it separately?
2. Adeptus Soritas: They are the daughters of the Emperor, but they don't feel like a complete army. Are you supposed to only get a few units and use them with other Imperial armies?
3. What is the Officio Assasinorum? Again, not a complete army, or enough to be one.
4. Is there a difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar?
5. The difference between Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, and the Inquisition.

I do know when GW created 40k they took many of the ideas right from the regular Warhammer. Knights became Space Marines, Orks became Orks, Elves became Eldar, etc. (Most of them have a counterpart.) But I am not sure what each of these Imperial Branches do, considering they don't have enough pieces or units for an army. Unless, are they expanding them in time? Also, I feel armies like the Imperial Guard are lacking in unit variety. Unless that is just me. The Space Marines, Tau, Tyranid for sure, Orks, Necrons, and Eldar are all pretty good in variety. Whatever happened to the Imperial Guard Kaskrin Squad? They were badass!

1.) GW wanted to copyright the name Astra Militarum and Militarum Tempestus in order to sue other companies in legal battles. FU GW!

2.) GW is trying to delete this army just like the Squats or Space Dwarves.

3.) The Officio Assasinorum is full of the most near game breaking units. Only their reasonable cost makes them balance some times not! Like a culuex that negates any and all psychic activities around him, the vindicare sniper, etc... STILL BALANCED AND NOT GAME BREAKING IN ANY WAY!

4.) The difference is that like High Elf vs Drow in DnD. From a CSM perpective, they are both food for Slaanesh. Regular Eldar are blessed to posses working spirit stone which also allow Wratih Guards/Lords/Knights and protect their souls from She Who Thirst! The Dark Eldars on the other hand, do not have such luxury and depend on seeking out more victims to torture and feed on their souls as Slaanesh slowly nibbles on Dark Eldar souls! The more a victim is tortured, the tastier their soul becomes to Dark Eldar.

5.)The inquisition use to combine Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, and the Imperial Guard. Imperial Knights are super heavies you can take into a 500pt game. Yes, you can ally in that super heavy at low points because of escalation rules and because Forge World is now accepted.

 Filch wrote:
[

2.) GW is trying to delete this army just like the Squats or Space Dwarves.

I doubt they're trying to kill off sisters after featuring them in the Baal campaign with lots of new artwork and fluff. They just haven't done fuckall for new models (unless you believe the plastic rumors).

SoB has quite the cult following.

 ncshooter426 wrote:
SoB got their own codex, and lost a lot of the goodies (yet their models - being the original ones from forever ago - still have the Inqisition "I" on them).

Actually that's an Ecclesiarchy symbol on SoB:



As opposed to the Inquisition symbol:

Filch wrote:2.) GW is trying to delete this army just like the Squats or Space Dwarves.

How would they "try" to delete them? All they'd need to do was actually delete them, and it would be done. Nah, GW seems quite content to keep them around.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Assassins were a stand alone thing at one point too. Their codex was bundled with the WD once upon a time.

Still are The officia assaniorum (sp) has it's own dataslate, but will find references to it in things like the Inquisition codex as well.

Oh I know, I was speaking historically about their pre-Witch/Daemonhunter existance. And the Inq. book dropped Assassins last I knew.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People say Sisters players are the crazy ones for hanging on for so long and believing that it'll be updated, but I'm starting to think the non-Sisters players and their constant insistence that the army is going to be dropped any second now is more crazy.

timebandit3077 wrote:
Hello, I was on the GW website and I was looking through the armies list and while I know who and what each army is I don't understand why some are lacking in terms of unit types and variety. I don't understand how each army plays a role and who they essentially work with. For example:

1. Militarum Tempestus: Do they work with the Astra Militarum? (Don't know why GW changed the name from Imperial Guard.) Do they go together, and GW just organized it separately?
2. Adeptus Soritas: They are the daughters of the Emperor, but they don't feel like a complete army. Are you supposed to only get a few units and use them with other Imperial armies?
3. What is the Officio Assasinorum? Again, not a complete army, or enough to be one.
4. Is there a difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar?
5. The difference between Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, and the Inquisition.

I do know when GW created 40k they took many of the ideas right from the regular Warhammer. Knights became Space Marines, Orks became Orks, Elves became Eldar, etc. (Most of them have a counterpart.) But I am not sure what each of these Imperial Branches do, considering they don't have enough pieces or units for an army. Unless, are they expanding them in time? Also, I feel armies like the Imperial Guard are lacking in unit variety. Unless that is just me. The Space Marines, Tau, Tyranid for sure, Orks, Necrons, and Eldar are all pretty good in variety. Whatever happened to the Imperial Guard Kaskrin Squad? They were badass!

There was not quite that overlap when they created 40K and WH.

Both were kind of created contemporarily, and were released simultaneously.

What they did not expect was that 40K would do so freaking well, as the game scene in 83 was HUGELY focused upon Fantasy Role Playing and Armies, and not so much upon Sci-Fi.

Also, the gaming scene in the 1980's had a few very high profile figures from the Goth and Deathrock scenes who tended to drive the interest in 40K, simply by being associated with it.

So...that tended to inform a LOT of the stylistic choices.

MB

Sisters originally started out as a minidex designed to be allied with Space Marine or Guard armies back in late second edition.

They were updated to a full army when third came out with the addition of Celestian, Dominion and Retributor squads, along with the Exorcist tank. At this point, they lost their Special Characters, as did all armies released only in the rulebook, as well as the Rites of Battle special rule.

They were then expanded again in Citadel Journal with Repentia and two new characters.

Forge World stepped in, providing a new transport, the Repressor, and creating a model for the Exorcist.

They were then expanded again in late 3rd edition with Codex: Witch Hunters, which revamped Repentia and added the Act of Faith system, Penitent Engines and Saint Celestine, as well as a built-in allies list in the Ordo Hereticus of the Inquisition. However, they again lost their older special characters, Jacobus and Kyrinov from the Citadel Journal article. Games Workshop produced a new Exorcist kit, as well as an updated, all-plastic Immolator and a new Canoness to go along with the new character, Celestine.

They then sat there for years aside from appearing in a mutilated form in Dawn of War: Soulstorm until White Dwarf updated them, dropping the Inquisition elements, introducing Sororitas Command Squads, revamping the Act of Faith system and bringing Kyrinov and Jacobus back into the army. The entire army saw an overhaul, angering many players who liked the Inquisition elements and the wide array of wargear available under Codex: Witch Hunters.

They then sat there as a mid-tier army for a year and a half until Codex: Adepta Sororitas was released, again removing Kyrinov from the list and again altering the Acts of Faith system, mostly to the army's benefit, as well as rebalancing some factors. To the fans' disappointment, no new models were released, nor were any anti-air options added to existing kits.

The last step in the saga of the Sisters' development was the addition of a flier from Forge World in the form of the Avenger Strike Fighter.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:

 ncshooter426 wrote:
SoB got their own codex, and lost a lot of the goodies (yet their models - being the original ones from forever ago - still have the Inqisition "I" on them).

Actually that's an Ecclesiarchy symbol on SoB:



As opposed to the Inquisition symbol:

Close enough.

We're all one big happy family

ncshooter426 wrote:

 Filch wrote:
[

2.) GW is trying to delete this army just like the Squats or Space Dwarves.

I doubt they're trying to kill off sisters after featuring them in the Baal campaign with lots of new artwork and fluff. They just haven't done fuckall for new models (unless you believe the plastic rumors).

SoB has quite the cult following.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Filch wrote:2.) GW is trying to delete this army just like the Squats or Space Dwarves.

How would they "try" to delete them? All they'd need to do was actually delete them, and it would be done. Nah, GW seems quite content to keep them around.

Let me explain further. GW has so many armies that the sales of one army cannibalize the sales of another. They are reducing SoB in order to sell MOAR SPESHH MAHHREENS! Also they wont out right delete an army when they have so many unsold models on the shelf. It would be better for them to sell it out and then delete.

Also the original dex featuring SoB, GK, and Assasisn, was too much of a great value! You can buy 1 book and field 3 separate armies! So GW decided to triple their profits by splitting the big book into 3 smaller books and another 1 much latter and they charge around $50 each! Also the Imperial Knight codex is 60 some pages is full of fluff that is just there to waste paper and ink with just 2 pages of rules and you are paying roughly $50!

The "I" represents the Imperium. What goes along with that I (skulls, three crossbars, judicial scales, etc.) represents what aspect of the Imperium the unit belongs to.

Filch, that's crazy talk. Sister sales are already so low they can't cannibalize anything right now.