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So I am starting an Astra Militarum army, and I had some general questions.

-Is Creed worth taking as your Warlord if I am just running a Infantry heavy list?
-Is there really any reason to play Militarum Tempestus over Astra Militarum?
-Why does there seem to be such a dislike of Taurox?
-I found a Baneblade at a garage sale and fixed the missing bits, can I use it in normal games now?
-With the new rules, can the Master of Ordnance fire his Orbital Bombardment every turn, rather than once per game?

 Paint Servitor wrote:
-Is Creed worth taking as your Warlord if I am just running a Infantry heavy list?

Not usually. Most of the time it's better to just get a second CCS.

-Is there really any reason to play Militarum Tempestus over Astra Militarum?

No. Their "codex" is a joke.

-Why does there seem to be such a dislike of Taurox?

Because it's a painfully ugly model and nobody wants the shame of having to admit they own one.

-I found a Baneblade at a garage sale and fixed the missing bits, can I use it in normal games now?

Yes.

-With the new rules, can the Master of Ordnance fire his Orbital Bombardment every turn, rather than once per game?

You've been able to use it every turn since 5th edition, if not earlier.

The Taurox isn't a mobile command vehicle meaning you can't give orders from it.

 Paint Servitor wrote:

-Is Creed worth taking as your Warlord if I am just running a Infantry heavy list?

If you are using the Emperor's Shield Company (has 170 guardsmen in the list) in the Cadian Supplement, then yes.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 Paint Servitor wrote:


So I am starting an Astra Militarum army, and I had some general questions.

-Is Creed worth taking as your Warlord if I am just running a Infantry heavy list?
-Is there really any reason to play Militarum Tempestus over Astra Militarum?
-Why does there seem to be such a dislike of Taurox?
-I found a Baneblade at a garage sale and fixed the missing bits, can I use it in normal games now?
-With the new rules, can the Master of Ordnance fire his Orbital Bombardment every turn, rather than once per game?

Welcome to the Guard, son! Grab your lasgun & flak jacket, we've got some Xenos to kill!

I know some have answered your questions already, but let me expand some if I may

-Creed is situationally useful but unless you're using the new infantry formation you're better served running a second Company Command Squad. One fun alternative is Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken, as he is actualy pretty beastly in close combat, though expensive, if you want to run just one CCS, Straken can be a nice surprisingly tough HQ model in your CCS.

-Not really. Tempestus Scions can deep strike in without having to pay for a flying transport to put them in (Valkyrie or Vendetta) but they're little more than Veteran Guardsman with Carapace built in and ever so sligtly better equipment on their standard line infantry and fewer options on the squad as a whole (No heavy weapon and only two special weapons versus three per squad on the veterans.). Stick with the guard and ally in Tempestus Scions if you want to try them.

-Mostly, the Taurox is kind of ugly model with only slightly better armor than an Ork Trukk. It's also not a command vehicle so you cannot issue orders if you have an officer embarked onboard, It's a cheaper (points wise) alternative to a Chimera, but the Chimera at least has AV:12 on the front and two weapons, one in the turret & one in the hull, plus the Chimera is a command vehicle as well.

-You can indeed field a Baneblade as your Lord of War slot. It's a pretty beastly tank. Just be sure you get the most up to date rules for it so you can refer to them while gaming & show your opponent if they have any questions.

-Yes, Master of Ordinance can Orbital Bombard every turn, provided he did not move. Also, no matter what, your shot will scatter at least some even if you roll a 'hit' on the scatter dice. Refer to the rules on MoO to see exactly how it works, but it is a fun option to run for sure.

Let me ask, what regiment are you planing on running, and do you have a theme you plan on using for your list (Beyond infantry heavy)?

If you want any help with your list or need any questions answered, please feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll try my best to help you out.

Best of luck, and take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

The guard has some good things to it.... It also has some terrible.... (Ogryns) commissar Yarrick is a fun character to run in either a blob or a unit of conscripts.... They won't retreat, you will Literally need a bucket to hold all the dice when you roll to hit, meat shields for everything else in your army, meat shields for Yarrick when your opponent tries to shoot him, and Yarrick is the most trolliest warlord to try to kill for the slay the warlord traits because he gets a reanimation roll.

When you play the imperial guard you play against long odds so either be smart or be reckless

 Paint Servitor wrote:


So I am starting an Astra Militarum army, and I had some general questions.

-Is Creed worth taking as your Warlord if I am just running a Infantry heavy list?
-Is there really any reason to play Militarum Tempestus over Astra Militarum?
-Why does there seem to be such a dislike of Taurox?
-I found a Baneblade at a garage sale and fixed the missing bits, can I use it in normal games now?
-With the new rules, can the Master of Ordnance fire his Orbital Bombardment every turn, rather than once per game?

Creed is worth taking if you take an infantry heavy army. Straken is actually one of my more successful choices when doing it but Creed is just fine.

I play Militarum Tempestus with IG Allies and also Astra Militarum plain. Militarum Tempestus on its own is a finesse army so it's not for the faint of heart. Most will find the Astra Militarum to be much easier to use. However Militarum Tempestus with IG allies has been serving me esceedingly well.

No one knows why people like or dislike things. Thats just humans for you. May as well as kwhy people dont like pancakes. They just do.

Baneblade can be used i nnormal games

Master of Ordinance can fire it every turn following his rules. Its not a very good upgrade but if you get to the END and i mean the END of list building and just cant FIND another use for the points? okay. Take him then.

My problem with the taurox is it doesn't really serve any purpose. The Chimera is pretty much better in every way and I believe one of the forge world books lets you take an AC turret

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My problem with the taurox is it doesn't really serve any purpose. The Chimera is pretty much better in every way and I believe one of the forge world books lets you take an AC turret

Taurtox, or Taurox Prime?

The Taurox Prime packs more firepower and is Fast. I have gotten considerable mileage from both realities.

The Prime seems decent though I think it's over costed. The normal one just doesn't do it for me. If it had the mobile command rule it be an ok choice but as it stands I think the 15 for the Chimera is worth it, Though I still think the the 10 point price increase GW did last time was unneeded especially since they nerfed it. Thankfully the Inquisition codex still gets the old version.

Yeah, the prime is comically expensive and limited.

At 20pta cheaper I'd maybe consider using one, but even a 65ptz chimera is a tough pill to swallow.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The Prime seems decent though I think it's over costed. The normal one just doesn't do it for me. If it had the mobile command rule it be an ok choice but as it stands I think the 15 for the Chimera is worth it, Though I still think the the 10 point price increase GW did last time was unneeded especially since they nerfed it. Thankfully the Inquisition codex still gets the old version.

Extensive use has taught me two things about the Taurox Prime.

1. The speed upgrade is super worth the points.
2. That firepower is mean.

I average 5 HITS a round with that thing on Infantry, wounding on 2's. there aren't many weapons that have that kind of range and pop AND can move. Its a deadly combination.

The hull can be breached but its range protects it from being deluged with lower end fire so the enemy ends up committing fair amount of resources to kill it and its speed sort of forces enemies to kill it. But by then the Tempestus are where they need to be.

The Ground Attack Formation for the Militarum Tempestus Twin-links you when you disembark which is like getting a free order for every embarked unit! On top of that, you have your normal orders. So all in all, it is potent for that reason as well.

i am impressed with the Taurox Primes performance. There is no arguing that it is a lighter vehicle but it also comes with the advantages you'd demand of one. it's like an Eldar Raider. A bit more than you wish you had to pay, but its ability to get you there and to offer enough offense offsets it.

This is my opinion after many battles with them.

My thoughts in the Taurox:

It's ugly...really ugly. It was unasked for. It fills no role or niche that the chimera cant do as well or better, and usually points itself out as the obvious weak spot in an armored list of otherwise solid AV12 or AV14 wall.

As for the Prime, similar problems. Very ugly, too expensive for what it does. 80pts base just doesnt work. It's got decent firepower and speed, but should probably be 20pts cheaper with each of its weapons upgrade options cut in price by half. Also needs Smoke Launchers as base wargear. The fact that its only available to Scion units and CCS's also limits the utility that being Fast might otherwise offer.

Basically they were half baked additions in terms of functionality, and the models are just really ugly and dont fit in with any other vehicle in the IG line visually.

"ugly"... and "unasked for"... those are actually arguments in your mind? I don't rememebr "asking" for Ghostkeels.

Hoboy.

You can get in them with anything you want. So Im not sure I even see that point.

I can say one thing: It's not cheap and you're not wrong there. But it delivers value and I guess unless you're using them to get places and still fire, you can't really appreciate it.

Last time I checked, side armor wasnt hard to get to on a Chimera by the way...so i am not too sure I'd waste time focusing on that advantage either.

Ugly is absolutley a thing. This is a game of toys, if something looks awful and doesnt match the aesthetic of the rest of thr model line, thats going to kill its interest. Much like the Medusa V CSM Possessed marine models that nobody bought or used.

As for Unasked for, the basic Taurox was Unasked for in the sense that the Taurox doesnt offer a meaningful new purpose that the Chinera wasnt already doing. If you wanted a transport with an autocannon, the Chimera had that option, and aside from that (which is a very secondary concern) it does the same thing the Chimera does. A venom offers capbilities that a Raider does not. A Razorback offers capabilities that a Rhino does not. A basic Taurox doesnt offer much in the way of substantial abilities that the Chimera does not already do.

A Prime does...but is really expensive, especially after kit, for what it does and what it carries. Other similarly priced transports get a lot more for such an investment.

Yes, you can get into a Prime with whatever you want, but not every unit can buy one or start in them, and playing chinese fire drill on the first turn is extremely problematic, as IG cannot buy them as FA units.

Side armor on a chimera is not impossible to get to, but this can be mitigated through deployment and maneuver to a good extent, and the frontal armor, especially on turns 1 and 2, matters a whole lot more.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Ugly is absolutley a thing. .

Eh...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:


As for Unasked for, the basic Taurox was Unasked for in the sense that the Taurox doesnt offer a meaningful new purpose.

yet...faster...yet...more firepower...so....uh...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:


Side armor on a chimera is not impossible to get to, but this can be mitigated through deployment... .

Kay

Jancoran wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

As for Unasked for, the basic Taurox was Unasked for in the sense that the Taurox doesnt offer a meaningful new purpose.

yet...faster...yet...more firepower...so....uh...

I bolded the part you missed.

The part where it is not faster or has more firepower.

*Editing because quoting is hard apparently.

The Prime is faster and offers more firepwoer, but not the Basic Taurox, which is what i was referring to when I mentioned that.


EDIT: Thank you Blacksails

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Prime is faster and offers more firepwoer, but not the Basic Taurox, which is what i was referring to when I mentioned that.


EDIT: Thank you Blacksails

The basic Taurax has less fire power than the Chimera and the Chimera can get the same weapon, plus a secondary, has a better firing port, and I can issue orders out it. The basic Taurax sucks cause it has no place in the army.

The prime can only be taken by storm troopers who are themselves over costed. Seems to me like your throwing good money after bad.

The basic Tarox is only redeemed ever so slightly by being a few hairs cheaper than a Chimera. It's where the Chimera should be on the point scale, and the basic Taurox should be 40 points base in my opinion. Not even touching on the fact that it's just not an attractive looking model (to me) though the Victoria Miniatures half-track conversion kit has sorely tempted me to pick one up and make it into a resource truck kind of model. I just can't justify spending the money on it. The aesthetic is just off, and I can't reconcile the look with the rest of my Vostroyan guard and their tanks.

That said, I own three Chimeras, and no Tauroxes (Tauroxi?) if that tells you anything.

The Prime is,... well..., it's just not good. Three Tarox Primes, after upgrades, are pushing 300 points. They're overcosted to the point of hilarity to me, as I can get three Chimera transports for 195 points that all have smoke launchers and two weapons built in, plus the lasgun arrays, are command vehicles and are even amphibious. So they're not fast, that doesn't really matter, as the entire army isn't fast save for the hellhound variant tanks and flyers.

I already pay a 10 point tax on all my Blood Angels transports for being fast vehicles, which I don't mind doing as rhinos are cheap to begin with, and Razorbacks aren't *horrible* either, though I prefer to not run Razorbacks personally. At least both the Blood Angels Razorback and Rhino come with everything you need as part of the base package without needing to spend MORE points to give them what they need (Smoke Launchers, Search Light, etc).

Fast vehicles are pretty swanky though, I will admit that, but wheeled/tracked transports, be they standard or fast, need to be sub-70 points base, especially if no facing on it is higher than AV:11 or 12.

Just my thoughts, I hope in the next IG codex they address the cost issues of many (....all) of the tanks.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Couldn't agree more Red.

Blacksails:



Consider yourself Brofisted.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Another thing I will ding the Tarox is that its not a tank so it can't bully units around the table.

THe Taurox, aside from being fugly as hell, suffers from being overpriced. Hell, that is not to say that the Chimera or indeed all other Guard units are not overpriced (they really are) but the Taurox is special.

You see, it does exactly what the Chimera does, only it is a little cheaper and a lot worse. Those 10 points are costing you your Amphibious capacity (not much these days but nice to have when your opponent is using a river to guard his flank), the Lasgun arrays (once again not much but every little helps), the Command Vehicle ability (a really big decision maker when it comes to deciding on your CCS's pimpmobile) and most of all you also lose a point of frontal armour.
Now the Chimer'a armour is not exactly stellar at 12/10/10 it can be murdered by most basic infantry if they get flank shots (thanks again for the crappy HP mechanic G'dubs) but at least it has a fairly respectable front AV of 12. However the Taurox lacks this, having only AV11 on the front. Rhino's (the swanky transports for GW's favourite mary sues) at least get AV11 at the side too but nooooooo, not the Guard. AV11/10/10 thank you sir. And your Taurox costs 20 points more to boot.

Now there is an arguement for the Taurox Prime which has more firepower and can be faster faster. However this transport is not only limited to command sections and Storm Troops (woo. Not.) but it still lacks the Command Vehicle perk and costs a whopping 80 points to boot! If you want it to go fast you have to pay 10 points more, making it 90 points..... For a transport I would rather have a Chimera. Its dependable, rugged, well armed, has decent frontal armour and is all out better than the Taurox.
And it looks good too.

PS, take everything Jancoran says with a wee pinch of salt. I am sure we all remember the super kill all Infantry blob list of his.

 master of ordinance wrote:
THe Taurox, aside from being fugly as hell, suffers from being overpriced. Hell, that is not to say that the Chimera or indeed all other Guard units are not overpriced (they really are) but the Taurox is special.

You see, it does exactly what the Chimera does, only it is a little cheaper and a lot worse. Those 10 points are costing you your Amphibious capacity (not much these days but nice to have when your opponent is using a river to guard his flank), the Lasgun arrays (once again not much but every little helps), the Command Vehicle ability (a really big decision maker when it comes to deciding on your CCS's pimpmobile) and most of all you also lose a point of frontal armour.
Now the Chimer'a armour is not exactly stellar at 12/10/10 it can be murdered by most basic infantry if they get flank shots (thanks again for the crappy HP mechanic G'dubs) but at least it has a fairly respectable front AV of 12. However the Taurox lacks this, having only AV11 on the front. Rhino's (the swanky transports for GW's favourite mary sues) at least get AV11 at the side too but nooooooo, not the Guard. AV11/10/10 thank you sir. And your Taurox costs 20 points more to boot.

Now there is an arguement for the Taurox Prime which has more firepower and can be faster faster. However this transport is not only limited to command sections and Storm Troops (woo. Not.) but it still lacks the Command Vehicle perk and costs a whopping 80 points to boot! If you want it to go fast you have to pay 10 points more, making it 90 points..... For a transport I would rather have a Chimera. Its dependable, rugged, well armed, has decent frontal armour and is all out better than the Taurox.
And it looks good too.

PS, take everything Jancoran says with a wee pinch of salt. I am sure we all remember the super kill all Infantry blob list of his.

Exactly. Well said also.

Also, I 'ed at the last part.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I also agree with what Master has to say Red. Although I will say that I've had some success with the Tauraox, I ultimately prefer the good ol' Chimera

 War Kitten wrote:
I also agree with what Master has to say Red. Although I will say that I've had some success with the Tauraox, I ultimately prefer the good ol' Chimera

Oh yea War, it's not that the Taurox is shall we say 'bad' at being what it is. It's just the Chimera does the job better and with more benefits over the Taurox. (The basic one, not touching on the Taurox Prime, which IMO is kind of a joke.)

Like anything, it fills it's role like any other transport. It's just a less capable one compared to the other option available.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Thanks guys

I just wanted to drop by and mention one last thing: There are three changes that I want to see made to the Chimera in the new Codex:
1) The price drops by ten points
2) Autocannons are a free weapon choice and in the codex (helps prevent whiners complainingg about your Chimera having a FW weapon option when it is not from a FW list)
3) And most of all I want to see the side armour increased to 11. That way Marines are other basic infantry will no longer be able to murder my APC's when they get flank shots.