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OK, I appreciate GW are realising new armies within the game, which is great for us players, but is the whole focus on the IoM for new releases just getting tiresome, I exclude GC as it has IoM elements so it is not a non-IoM for the purpose of this thread - some will disagree but please humour me? Personally, I look at the new SoS and Custodes release and have nothing but apathy as I am tired of it.

I appreciate some will love the release and that is great. Also, I sincerely hope you Adepta Sororitas players get your turn in the limelight, I say this as a CSM player, but for the love of Slaanesh knock the IoM releases on the head already.

At this rate the game is going to become Eldar v Tau v Necrons v IoM and damn the rest.

Sorry, meant to ask what are your thoughts. Mooooooore IoM or less?

I exclude GC as it has IoM elements so it is not a non-IoM for the purpose of this thread

I say this as a CSM player, but for the love of Slaanesh knock the IoM releases on the head already.

That's kind of funny because one could claim CSM has IoM elements as well.

Less. I know that it is wishful thinking on my part, but if the ally matrix is kept for another edition, 2 changes should be made:
1. the only BB ally is your own Codex\army
2. IOM should all become AOC.

(So FSE\TE are BB, DKOK\AM are BB, White Scars\Ultramarines are BB, but AM\SM are AOC)

This applies to FW as well. As much as I love the new Tau stuff, after IA14 they could work on armies that have almost nothing from them (Dark Eldar, for example)

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
OK, I appreciate GW are realising new armies within the game, which is great for us players, but is the whole focus on the IoM for new releases just getting tiresome, I exclude GC as it has IoM elements so it is not a non-IoM for the purpose of this thread - some will disagree but please humour me? Personally, I look at the new SoS and Custodes release and have nothing but apathy as I am tired of it.

I appreciate some will love the release and that is great. Also, I sincerely hope you Adepta Sororitas players get your turn in the limelight, I say this as a CSM player, but for the love of Slaanesh knock the IoM releases on the head already.

At this rate the game is going to become Eldar v Tau v Necrons v IoM and damn the rest.

Sorry, meant to ask what are your thoughts. Mooooooore IoM or less?

Lol. A CSM player complaining about IoM elements? CSM has far more IoM elements in their range than the GSC
Also, HH releases really should not be included because they are primarily for a different game that only has IoM factions. Including that would not be fair because it is going to skew the image.

Personally, I do not think the IoM is becoming tiresome. The IoM and its many different factions are so diverse and different from each other that it is hard to see how you could ever get tired from it. It is not like it is all Space Marines.
However, to add some variety to the other factions as well I am hoping for some new Chaos, Necron and Eldar releases. Mostly I want to see the Lost and the Damned return in plastic, one or two new Necron units and the Eldar aspect warrior kits remade in plastic. Tau, Tyranids and Dark Eldar are fine as far as variety is concerned imo.

 carldooley wrote:
Less. I know that it is wishful thinking on my part, but if the ally matrix is kept for another edition, 2 changes should be made:
1. the only BB ally is your own Codex\army
2. IOM should all become AOC.

(So FSE\TE are BB, DKOK\AM are BB, White Scars\Ultramarines are BB, but AM\SM are AOC)

No. They really shouldn't.

If you're going to argue for the Farsight Enclaves and Tau Empire to be Battle Brothers, then accept that IoM is BB. It happens. Tough luck.

You want to deal with the various Death Stars and crap floating out of the IoM?

Chapter Tactics for each of the sub books; barring Deathwatch.
As soon as that happens those builds are smashed apart since they would lose their special rules when those death stars are built.

I have some inclination to agree. GW has produced a lot of dexes that didn't need to be full dexes on their own. Deathwatch was completely gratuitous. That could have been handled with a formation in Codex: Space Marines focused on Sternguard Vets, with the Storm Raven as its flyer (they could have taken the opportunity to improve the Storm Raven model while they were at it).

Having separate dexes for Imperial Knights, Skitarri, and Admech is also kind of ridiculous. Those three armies could have been one book.

And then there's Militarum Tempestus. A separate dex just for Stormtroopers? Really?

Meanwhile, while all this goofy gak is going on, Sisters of Battle still languish with a late-2nd ed pewter mini range and an afterthought set of rules. That tease in the GW video introducing daemon primarch Magnus does suggest that long dry spell is coming to an end soon, but it should have come before Deathwatch - for that matter, it should have come before Admech/Skitarri/Knights. GW ought to be supporting its existing armies adequately before releasing a slew of new ones.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I have some inclination to agree. GW has produced a lot of dexes that didn't need to be full dexes on their own. Deathwatch was completely gratuitous. That could have been handled with a formation in Codex: Space Marines focused on Sternguard Vets, with the Storm Raven as its flyer (they could have taken the opportunity to improve the Storm Raven model while they were at it).

No, it really couldn't have. Deathwatch got a ton of unique wargear.

Anyone saying they could have been handled by "just a Sternguard formation" hasn't read the book.

Having separate dexes for Imperial Knights, Skitarri, and Admech is also kind of ridiculous. Those three armies could have been one book.

No, they couldn't have.
Skitarii were made to be as different as possible to Cult Mechanicus. There's a reason why the "big" formations for them grant Canticles and/or Doctrina Imperatives to each.

Knights are a different story that could realistically have been rolled into one or the other...but weren't, because the intention was to showcase the independent nature of the Knightly Houses.

And then there's Militarum Tempestus. A separate dex just for Stormtroopers? Really?

Realistically, Scions had no business being in the AM book. It's bizarre the way that the Scions in AM have the platoon setup but the MT have single squads.

Meanwhile, while all this goofy gak is going on, Sisters of Battle still languish with a late-2nd ed pewter mini range and an afterthought set of rules. That tease in the GW video introducing daemon primarch Magnus does suggest that long dry spell is coming to an end soon, but it should have come before Deathwatch - for that matter, it should have come before Admech/Skitarri/Knights. GW ought to be supporting its existing armies adequately before releasing a slew of new ones.

Oh please.

Sisters of Battle "still languish" yet got to actually be a part of the "<insert enemy type here>hunters" ranges. Deathwatch never even got to that point, despite being just as solid of a concept as the Sororitas.

In any regards, what did we really get with Deathwatch? Reboxes of vehicles plus a single new vehicle, a new kit in the form of the Deathwatch Veterans box, and a single new clamshell blister in the form of the Watch-Master.

What do you think the Sisters range will be like when redone? Cause it ain't gonna be that small.

So many abbreviations that I have no clue what they stand for.

IoM?
GC?
GW- that's an easy one!
SoS- Taking a gamble because of the inference, but Sisters of Silence?
CSM- Another inference, so gonna go with Chaos Space Marines.

Truly the English language has become butchered with 1337 speak and texting. I must be getting old. Get off my forums, you dang young hoodlums and your fancy cell phones and hoodies!

 Tamwulf wrote:
So many abbreviations that I have no clue what they stand for.

IoM?
GC?
GW- that's an easy one!
SoS- Taking a gamble because of the inference, but Sisters of Silence?
CSM- Another inference, so gonna go with Chaos Space Marines.

Truly the English language has become butchered with 1337 speak and texting. I must be getting old. Get off my forums, you dang young hoodlums and your fancy cell phones and hoodies!

They are pretty basic 40k terms that are used a lot here on Dakka. The meaning of most of them should show up if you hover your mouse over it, but I have no idea if this system is still being updated to include new abbreviatons.
IoM = Imperium of Man
GC or GSC = Genestealer Cults
GW = Games Workshop
SoS = Sisters of Silence
CSM = Chaos Space Marines (not to be confused with C:SM which is Codex: Space Marines)
No 1337 speak involved, and texting is for old people.

@Zebio - Quite right, I thought that statement may be a bit inflammatory but left it as is.

@Tamwulf - OK, lesson learmed for future new forum users. But that ain't LEET speak son.

What I suppose I am getting at is please mix it up a bit - and no, not another "why my CSM be bad?" whinge. In fact, please keep that out at all costs.

Well, leaving out the HH stuff (as that's not for 40k), we're left with a fair amount of the smaller and more obscure factions getting releases, such as Deathwatch, Admech, and Genestealer Cults. These have never been available for a good while longer than the Sisters, the resident neglected army. And yes, whilst I'd agree that they should have an update, these armies are all new, bring something new to the game, and are rather fun to see.

With GC, the Imperium trend has been rather knocked on the head.

I wouldn't say I'm bored with the Imperium, but I'm tired of the lazy approach GW takes toward new content. The production attitude is far more Michael Bay in approach than I can appreciate: Bigger, badder, crazier, MORE EXPLOSIONS!

The sculpting has been lazy which is a shame because the quality of the plastic kits is superb. If they coupled more genuine planning/thought into the units they'd have an unstoppable product.

Personally, I've no particular issue with Imperial/human stuff; it's the central focus of the 40K universe and there's a lot of depth to the various elements of it to explore. Myself, I'm not really interested in seeing any more Space Marines, but I get that they're the main 40K cash cow, so if I have to sit it out and not pay attention to Deathwatch/more HH etc for a while, with the upshot being that it allows them to do more stuff like the AdMech/GSC, then I'm cool with it. I've got plenty of painting catch-up to do in the meantime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I'm driving at (which I'm not sure I conveyed very well) is that, as long as new stuff adds more depth to the 40k universe, I don't really care what faction it's part of (although I personally have no interest at all I'm seeing any more space marines).

I dunno if ALL the IoM is tiresome, but I think S/T4 3+ armor infantry kinda needs to have a break.

In a D10 system, some chapters would wear slightly heavier or lighter power armor. Just sayin'

 carldooley wrote:
Less. I know that it is wishful thinking on my part, but if the ally matrix is kept for another edition, 2 changes should be made:
1. the only BB ally is your own Codex\army
2. IOM should all become AOC.

(So FSE\TE are BB, DKOK\AM are BB, White Scars\Ultramarines are BB, but AM\SM are AOC)

With a couple of iterations, I like how Allies act in this edition but I much prefer the chart of 6th along with how CTA was.

No, IoM is not becoming tiresome.
What is becoming tiresome is the constant Space Marine spam being forced down our throats by GW.

But when those same S/T 4 3+ guys are making the biggest bucks in the company, can you really blame them?

Like, I know what you mean, and I agree to an extent. But it can't be such a bad business idea to create more of what has been reeling in the most cash for probably over a decade.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
But when those same S/T 4 3+ guys are making the biggest bucks in the company, can you really blame them?

Like, I know what you mean, and I agree to an extent. But it can't be such a bad business idea to create more of what has been reeling in the most cash for probably over a decade.

Exactly. (And it's been way more than a decade, btw; it's never not been the case in the history of 40K.).If GW banging out yet more Space Marines is what it takes to mean they can do the other stuff that interests me more, then I don't have a problem with it. And nobody's "forcing" it down anyone's throats. Don't want to play SM? Don't buy them. Don't want to play against SM? Don't.

 Nazrak wrote:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
But when those same S/T 4 3+ guys are making the biggest bucks in the company, can you really blame them?

Like, I know what you mean, and I agree to an extent. But it can't be such a bad business idea to create more of what has been reeling in the most cash for probably over a decade.

Exactly. (And it's been way more than a decade, btw; it's never not been the case in the history of 40K.).If GW banging out yet more Space Marines is what it takes to mean they can do the other stuff that interests me more, then I don't have a problem with it. And nobody's "forcing" it down anyone's throats. Don't want to play SM? Don't buy them. Don't want to play against SM? Don't.

I dont, and I wont, but I would like an actual update to my codex that did not nerf the living gak out of it because some whiny SM players decided that thinking was too hard (no offence to most of the SM players here, you lot are great). I would also like some new models whilst I am at it,
But no, GW says that we need three more vanilla SM updates and four/five more Space Marine factions. For reasons.

If you don't mind me asking, what army do you play? I'm assuming Orks/Chaos with the descriptions you provided, but I'm not 100%.

Also, despite me really liking my Marines, I completely agree that GW need to lay off the Marines for the time being, because too much of anything is a bad thing in the long run. At least with the Deathwatch they did enough things differently that they weren't just a vanilla codex chapter codex with some different rules (like BA, DA etc).

That being said, I don't really see what other SM-esque factions they could make. Codex: Custodes won't happen, and the only other thing that springs to mind are SoB, which may or may not be getting an update (they don't really count as Marines anyway).

The Imperium is huge and has gobs of factions. It's the big human faction and, guess what, we're human, so that's the faction that gets the most attention by default.

Now, that said, I'm not sure why they're doing Custodes. They've been an explicit non-actor in the 40k universe. They guard the Emperor's Palace and the Emperor himself, and occaisionally run around on the Black Ships making sure the Emperor's food isn't tainted. They are beyond the remit of the Inquisition, they don't go out and fight anyone, they just don't have really any interaction with the rest of the 40k universe past the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence likewise, I didn't think they existed beyond the Heresy?

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Imperium is huge and has gobs of factions. It's the big human faction and, guess what, we're human, so that's the faction that gets the most attention by default.

Now, that said, I'm not sure why they're doing Custodes. They've been an explicit non-actor in the 40k universe. They guard the Emperor's Palace and the Emperor himself, and occaisionally run around on the Black Ships making sure the Emperor's food isn't tainted. They are beyond the remit of the Inquisition, they don't go out and fight anyone, they just don't have really any interaction with the rest of the 40k universe past the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence likewise, I didn't think they existed beyond the Heresy?

I think they made rules for them just so you can use all the guys in the new Burning of Prospero box set. I mean lets be honest, we're all getting the box for the models, not the game.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, what army do you play? I'm assuming Orks/Chaos with the descriptions you provided, but I'm not 100%.

Also, despite me really liking my Marines, I completely agree that GW need to lay off the Marines for the time being, because too much of anything is a bad thing in the long run. At least with the Deathwatch they did enough things differently that they weren't just a vanilla codex chapter codex with some different rules (like BA, DA etc).

That being said, I don't really see what other SM-esque factions they could make. Codex: Custodes won't happen, and the only other thing that springs to mind are SoB, which may or may not be getting an update (they don't really count as Marines anyway).

Imperial Guard.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I have some inclination to agree. GW has produced a lot of dexes that didn't need to be full dexes on their own. Deathwatch was completely gratuitous. That could have been handled with a formation in Codex: Space Marines focused on Sternguard Vets, with the Storm Raven as its flyer (they could have taken the opportunity to improve the Storm Raven model while they were at it).

Having separate dexes for Imperial Knights, Skitarri, and Admech is also kind of ridiculous. Those three armies could have been one book.

And then there's Militarum Tempestus. A separate dex just for Stormtroopers? Really?

Meanwhile, while all this goofy gak is going on, Sisters of Battle still languish with a late-2nd ed pewter mini range and an afterthought set of rules. That tease in the GW video introducing daemon primarch Magnus does suggest that long dry spell is coming to an end soon, but it should have come before Deathwatch - for that matter, it should have come before Admech/Skitarri/Knights. GW ought to be supporting its existing armies adequately before releasing a slew of new ones.

Kill Team Dispatched to your on suspicion of Xenos cooperation and Heresy. Don't worry you'll just have to come with your friendly local inquisitor on this black ship and everything will be fine.

Edit
All space marines can be folded into one mega dex. I would leave the DW and Grey Knights out of that due to their unusual specialties. I would make one mega Tau dex with FSE and regular TE (and if they decide to do Kroot Mercenaries or Tay Auxiliaries codex) content in it. Eldar could be folded all back into one mega dex, but make sure the dex talks about all the factions equally. Ad Mech and Skitarrii definitely get merged into a dex. No reason for that to be split. Assassins, Inquisitors of all types, and all sorts of Imperial specialists and support would go into codex Inquisition.

They also need to release a completely new Xenos faction to help fight the IoM fatigue and then do Kroot Mercenaries or Tau Auxillaries or something. Right now there's too much IoM and it's about to get a lot more crowded with all the rumored chaos releases.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Imperium is huge and has gobs of factions. It's the big human faction and, guess what, we're human, so that's the faction that gets the most attention by default.

Now, that said, I'm not sure why they're doing Custodes. They've been an explicit non-actor in the 40k universe. They guard the Emperor's Palace and the Emperor himself, and occaisionally run around on the Black Ships making sure the Emperor's food isn't tainted. They are beyond the remit of the Inquisition, they don't go out and fight anyone, they just don't have really any interaction with the rest of the 40k universe past the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence likewise, I didn't think they existed beyond the Heresy?

We're starting to see the shape of things to come/past with the Sisters of Silence in "The Beast Arises" series.

They existed past the Heresy, but not in huge numbers. The High Lords seemingly dismissed/offended them and the Sisters left the Imperium itself. From there, we've found that in leaving the Imperium they considered their oaths of silence fulfilled and actually spoke.

I don't so much mind about the amount of IoM releases, because CSM have gotten plenty of releases. There's a huge chasm between them in terms of quality, though.

I believe this is part of a cyclical problem;

GW makes more Space Marine kits/ variants/ models so Space Marines make more money than other factions, so GW makes more Space Marine kits/ variant /models.

Et cetera ad infinitum.

Yeah, I think that will be a huge part of the game as long as it exists. To some degree, I don't blame GW, either. No matter how good they make, say, Orks, in terms of rules, many people ar ejust never going to buy the models. The Imperium will always sell. As you implied, it does feed into itself to some degree.