Army and Unit Tier List

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**ZergSmasher**

Hello there! Just as a fun way of stimulating some discussion about this game, I thought I'd make a tier list of armies in the game. Not only for the armies themselves, but for each unit in each army (yeah it's gonna be big, hence the spoiler tags for the units). This will only cover the Lord of the Rings stuff as I don't even have the Armies of The Hobbit book, and it won't cover every Forge World option as I don't have most of those profiles, so apologies if it's incomplete. Also for the armies, I'm rating them as pure factions rather than as allied contingents; some armies might work much better as a small ally force and I will note this. I'm also ignoring Legendary Legions for now. The individual heroes and warriors will be rated with their army bonus in mind, which means some units that are in multiple factions will be rated multiple times, as they might or might not work better in some armies compared to others.

The tiers:
S-tier: Best of the best in terms of units or armies. For armies, these are going to be the ones that are most likely seen on the podium in tournaments. For individual units, these are going to be the ones you build your list around.
A-tier: Still strong stuff; less overwhelmingly so than S-tier, but again this is stuff you can often build around or will commonly finish well in events.
B-tier: This tier is for armies/units that are decently good, but in the case of units are not something to build an entire strategy around. They make great supports for an overall strategy though. Army-wise, these ones probably have some good builds and can do well in the hands of an experienced player.
C-tier: This is where the more situational stuff goes. Units here are generally very niche and only work well in certain builds. Armies here will only do well if played by someone who knows what they are doing or have one specific build that makes them work.
D-tier: Most of what is rated in this tier is very weak, but could have one very niche use that sees it get some play.
F-tier: If something gets this rating it is probably pretty useless. Basically a meme army/unit and not something that should be taken very seriously.

FORCES OF GOOD

The Fellowship of the Ring: A-tier: A strong overall list of good heroes with lots of Might and generally good Fight values. Many of the Fellowship can be mounted for good mobility, and their army bonus means that as long as they can protect Frodo they'll stick around. Low model count means objective-based scenarios could be difficult, and potentially even your heroes could get "snowed under" by weight of numbers if a couple of fights go against you.
Units:

Spoiler:

Frodo Baggins: C-tier: He's a Hobbit, which in this game means you don't exactly bring him as a beatstick. He does have some defensive options such as the Mithril-coat and of course The One Ring, which is good because your army bonus is keyed to this guy.
Samwise Gamgee: D-tier: His only redeeming qualities for the list are good heroic stats (2 each of M/W/F); his ability to call a free heroic combat when near Frodo would be good if he wasn't a Hobbit (and so unlikely to kill his opponent even if he wins).
Meriadoc Brandybuck: D-tier: He, like Pippin below, is only useful for being a cheap filler for a Fellowship list. At least he can take an Elven cloak to avoid being shot down by arrows or magic easily.
Peregrin Took: D-tier: Another filler character, literally identical to Merry. Both can use Boromir's Might points, for what that's worth.
Gandalf the Grey: S-tier: One of the best casters in the game, with a pretty versatile set of spells. Definitely make room for him in a Fellowship list.
Aragorn, Strider: S-tier: This guy is why you play the Fellowship! You always take him even in lower points games; he's that good!
Boromir of Gondor: A-tier: Great combat stats, but his complete lack of Fate points means he is deceptively fragile. He does have a lot of Might to help him win fights, plus the Horn of Gondor, so he's still not bad by any means.
Legolas Greenleaf: S-tier: One of the best (if not THE best) shooting heroes in the game. Always take this guy; he will often be your main method of striking enemies from afar in a Fellowship list. Gets even better when Gimli's around and outscoring him on kills.
Gimli, Son of Gloin: A-tier: Another pretty beefy combat hero, and very tanky as well. His only real weakness is that he is a Dwarf and so moves slower, and he has no mount option to make up for this.
Bill the Pony: D-tier: The greatest hero of Middle-Earth! In game, unfortunately, he's a pretty situational addition. Getting back a Might, Will, or Fate point is a nice idea, but it is only a 1/3 chance and it requires your hero to be near Bill at the time.
Smeagol: F-tier: You can't even take Smeagol in a pure Fellowship list since he can only be taken if you only have Frodo and Sam. His stats are mediocre enough that it's not even worth doing in an allied list.
Arwen Undomiel: C-tier: You can only bring her if you have Aragorn (which you will). She provides access to the Wrath of Bruinen spell, and relatively little else. Could be worth it if you think you need more offensive magic than Gandalf provides.

The Shire: C-tier: Your army will be mainly Hobbits (if not only Hobbits), and they are very, very weak. You will, however, have a LOT of Hobbits, so quantity can have a quality of its own. And your shooting is, ironically, pretty solid since Hobbit Archers have a 3+ Shoot value!
Units:

Spoiler:

Frodo of the Nine Fingers: B-tier: Pacifist Frodo provides a 6" banner effect, but can't actually do any fighting himself (and has only 2 wounds and 1 Fate), so he needs to be protected.
Samwise the Brave: C-tier: Sam doesn't really bring much for his points; his defense and Fight value are pretty low (although he does have 2 Might and Heroic Strike), and even if he does win a fight he gets only one S3 attack.
Meriadoc, Captain of the Shire: A-tier: For a Hobbit, this guy actually has decent combat stats, but his big draw is the fact that he can upgrade his Hobbit Militia buddies into Battlin' Brandybucks, which makes them much more dangerous to D5 enemies (D5 is fairly common).
Peregrin, Captain of the Shire: A-tier: Similar to Merry in terms of combat ability, and can even reroll Wound rolls vs. monsters and heroes, which is awesome to have in the back pocket. Provides a situational optional upgrade to Hobbit Archers as well.
Paladin Took: B-tier: He's a cheap support hero, and a good add if you really like the Tookish Hunters upgrade that Pippin also gives. With 2 Fate, he can actually potentially facetank a lesser enemy hero, but he really should be protected as his benefit is only felt in the late game (12" Stand Fast is nice).
Farmer Maggot: A-tier: For his cost, he actually is pretty decent, and one of the closest things Hobbits have to a proper beatstick hero. His value gets even better when you realize that he comes with three additional models (his doggies).
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins: D-tier: She provides a very situational ability to disrupt enemy Stand Fast rolls, but she also disrupts your own so it's probably not worth bringing her.
Fredegar Bolger: F-tier: Only a Minor hero, no combat ability to speak of (he's unarmed), and no special rules, his only possible redeeming quality is that he's cheap and can bring 6 models with him. Definitely not worth taking since there are a lot better options.
Bilbo Baggins: D-tier: He's not terrible in terms of fighting ability (for a Hobbit anyway), and has access to decent upgrades, but he locks you out of taking any of the "Big Four" (Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin), so he's probably not worth it.
Bandobras Took: A-tier: Very strong for his points and he's Cavalry, but he locks you out of taking ANY other named Hobbit heroes if you want your army bonus (and you probably want it). You can still take Gandalf and/or Dunedain though, so he does provide an interesting alternative way to play the army.
Gandalf the Grey: A-tier: He's about the same here as he is in the Fellowship, and the army bonus doesn't affect him. He also locks you out of the "Big Four", but you can run him with the Bullroarer and he can bring some Hobbits with him, mitigating the lack of Hobbit leaders.
Dunedain: C-tier: Not super good in a Shire list, as they really want the Rangers army bonus (and don't benefit from the Shire one at all). You can't even bring them unless you also have Gandalf, so his restrictions apply to these as well.
Hobbit Militia: C-tier: They are very weak, but in most lists you will have plenty of them to swarm the board and/or disrupt enemy heroes.
Hobbit Archer: A-tier: These provide some of the best cheap shooting in the game. Like all Hobbits they are very glass-jawed though.
Hobbit Shirriff: B-tier: Slightly more expensive than Militia, but they bring a hand-and-a-half club, which lets them punch above their weight. Definitely bring some!

The Rangers: B-tier: Another all-Hero army, but they play a bit more like a conventional force due to the limited heroic stats of the non-named Rangers, and the way their army bonus works.
Units:

Spoiler:

Numenor: A tier: You've got two very strong heroes, S4 troops, and decent Courage thanks to your army bonus. Overall a pretty solid army choice, if a bit limited in terms of number of profiles (only four).
Units:

Spoiler:

Minas Tirith: S tier: This army has a lot of solid Hero options, sturdy basic troops, and strong cavalry. Plus one of the best siege weapons in the game in the Avenger Bolt Thrower. There are plenty of viable builds for this army, too.
Units:

Spoiler:

The Fiefdoms: S tier: Very solid buffing heroes and an army bonus that lets them share their special rules to everyone (instead of just their matching troops) makes for a very versatile and strong army.
Units:

Spoiler:

The Dead of Dunharrow: A tier: An entire army that causes Terror and has very high Defense overall, but low Fight values on the troops is a notable weakness, especially considering how expensive each model is points-wise.
Units:

Spoiler:

Arnor: B tier: Low Courage is a glaring weakness for this army, although the Troops have pretty decent Fight values. Their army bonus is really helpful to somewhat counteract the low Courage problem, but you have to keep your glass-jawed heroes alive.
Units:

Spoiler:

Rohan: S tier: Rohan is possibly the best mobile army in the game, with strong heroes and an excellent army bonus. Its only real downside is that the foot troops are lackluster, but even they aren't total garbage.
Units:

Spoiler:

Theoden, King of Rohan: S tier: This guy is one of the best heroes in the army, and not terribly expensive either even with all the wargear options. He is deceptively fragile for a Hero of Legend, so he's probably best used as a buff character.
Theodred, Heir of Rohan: A tier: He's really solid; the only downside is that he must always charge if able, and that can be used against him by a savvy opponent.
Eomer, Marshal of the Riddermark: S tier: Eomer is the best beatstick hero available to Rohan; his stats allow him to hit quite hard and he has enough wounds and Fate points to survive losing even against a big enemy hero or monster.
Eowyn, Shield Maiden of Rohan: B tier: She's not terrible by any means, but her low strength and defense (for a hero) and the fact that her movement gets really restricted if Theoden dies are significant drawbacks. At least she's not too expensive.
Meriadoc Brandybuck, Knight of the Mark: F tier: Like Pippin in the Minas Tirith list, he just doesn't do enough for his points to be worth taking.
Erkenbrand, Captain of Rohan: A tier: He's a decent beatstick character, with a nice courage buff. The ability to upgrade Riders to Westfold Redshields is not something you'll make widespread use of, but perhaps worth it for a few guys to ride with him.
Gamling, Captain of Rohan: S tier: He's a captain-equivalent character based on stats, but you're bringing him for the banner, because being able to replenish Might points is a great ability to have.
Hama, Captain of Rohan: A tier: Another captain-equivalent. This is the guy you take if you don't want Gamling's banner for some reason, because statwise he's almost the same. He also lacks March, which Gamling has.
Grimbold of Grimslade: B tier: A rare foot-only hero in Rohan. If you want to run Rohan infantry, you probably should take this guy, as upgrading them to Helmingas is very much worth it and gives them some much-needed punch.
Eorl the Young: A tier: Normally I don't like models that lock you out of most of the options in an army, but this guy is a notable exception, as he has a nice set of Heroic abilities and the ability to save his Might points when he uses them. His statline is quite formidable as well.
Aldor, Rohan Archer (War in Rohan): D tier: Bringing this guy is kind of a funny idea, but in general not worth 20 points.
Haleth, Son of Hama (War in Rohan): C tier: Worth a look if running Rohan Infantry, but generally skippable. This kid is A tier in the Defenders of Helm's Deep Legendary Legion, but that is outside the scope of this tier list.
Helm Hammerhand (War in Rohan): A tier: Like Eorl, he locks you out of the other named heroes or any allies, but he does provide some interesting bonuses in return and is honestly one of the beefiest heroes available to Rohan.
King's Huntsman: C tier: This character is interesting, as he's set up to be a decent sniper. I'm not sure that's something Rohan desperately needs though, and he can't take a horse.
Captain of Rohan: A tier: These are quite useful on their own merits, as if you need to save points you can just skip certain upgrades. The named characters are better in general though. You'll need these in Eorl or Helm Hammerhand lists though.
Warrior of Rohan: C tier: Generally underwhelming foot troops, and they don't benefit from Rohan's army bonus at all. Worst of all, there's no spear option, so the only way to get spear supports (outside of a couple of LLs) is with allies.
Rider of Rohan: S tier: Perhaps the best skirmish cavalry in the game, and they get even better if Theoden is within 12" of them. That combined with the army bonus makes them quite good for their cost.
Rohan Royal Guard: S tier: For one point over standard Riders, you can take these, who trade in their bow for heavier armor, higher Fight, and the Bodyguard rule. Definitely worth bringing at least a few of them.
Rohan Outrider: B tier: Better shooting but lower defense compared to Riders, and actually you don't have to take them mounted. Perhaps that is where they can shine, as they are better than standard Warriors with bows.
Son of Eorl: C tier: In a normal list, these probably aren't worth the extra points over Royal Guard, but in a list with Eorl it is absolutely worth bringing a few of them.

Wildmen of Druadan: F tier: A pure army of these is just Ghan-buri-ghan with as many Warriors as you can fit in the points, and there is a lot of stuff in the game that they just can't handle, despite the models not being total trash in general. Better as allies than as a whole army.
Units:

Spoiler:

Rivendell: S tier: This army is stacked with some of the strongest heroes in the whole game, although they do cost a fair amount of points. Basically everything in this army has Fight 5 or better, including the basic troops, so it plays like a fairly elite force (since the models are strong but expensive).
Units:

Spoiler:

Gil-Galad, High King of the Elves: S tier: Locks you out of some of the hero options, but most of those are ones you can easily live without. This guy might just be the best Good hero in the game, although having only a single Fate point is his Achilles' heel.
Elrond, Master of Rivendell: S tier: Another strong Hero of Legend option; trades in a bit of combat prowess (compared to Gil-Galad) for some spellcasting. His Foresight ability should not be underestimated; being able to basically choose which player has Priority on a key turn could swing games.
Glorfindel, Lord of the West: S tier: Less of a force multiplier and more of a beatstick than the previous two heroes, but absolutely still worth bringing.
Erestor: A tier: Easily worth taking over a generic Captain, and quite formidable for his points.
Arwen Undomiel: D tier: Weak combat stats, and only a single Magic power (albeit a good one) means she kind of lacks purpose in a list.
Elladan and Elrohir: A tier: An interesting entry, you have to take both of these guys and cannot upgrade them separately at all. They are actually pretty solid for the points though.
Lindir of Rivendell: C tier: This guy is a buff character, not a combat character, and he must be played as such. Only worth taking with Elrond, not even close to worth it otherwise.
Cirdan: A tier: Another buff character; plays a bit like a weaker Galadriel (see the Lothlorien army list), and a lot less expensive. Worth bringing if you want some defensive magic power.
Gildor Inglorion: A tier: A bit squishy, but his Elven Cloak makes him hard to target from afar. If you want to bring Wood Elves without allying in Lorien, this is how you do it. Jury's out on whether that's a good idea. Can serve as a light disruption piece with his Immobilize spell.
Bilbo Baggins: F tier: Rivendell simply doesn't need him, move along. I suppose there could be an edge case if you wanted to have a character with the Ring to disrupt enemy fight values, but generally it's not worth it.
High Elf Captain: A tier: Costlier than other factions' basic Captains, but that's to be expected given the extra stats. Worth bringing as a "swiss army knife" character, kitted out for whatever role you need in a list.
High Elf Stormcaller: D tier: A weak defensive caster, you generally don't need anything this guy does. If you want a defensive spellcaster, take Cirdan for only 20 points more.
High Elf Warrior: A tier: Quite formidable for the points, and plenty of options for a variety of roles.
Rivendell Knight: A tier: Pricey, but very dangerous skirmish cavalry that can do good work at range and then bring the pain when they charge thanks to the lances.

Lothlorien: A tier: In some ways, this army is like Rivendell-lite. They don't have the kind of insane heroes that Rivendell does, but they do have very similar troops, plus Wood Elves. And Galadriel is one of the best casters in the game.
Units:

Spoiler:

Galadriel: S tier: Possibly the best "defensive caster" in the whole game, Galadriel's main focus is disruption rather than destruction. She also has 3 rerollable Fate, meaning she can actually facetank most enemy heroes if one of them gets to her. She's unarmed, though, so don't expect her to kill anything at all, which is a liability in one of the missions since she will be your leader (she's Lorien's only Hero of Legend).
Celeborn: S tier: Plays somewhat like Elrond, but not quite as good. You will always want to take all of his wargear, as unarmed he's pretty much useless for his points. Easily Lorien's best combat hero.
Rumil: A tier: He's a midrange combat beatstick, and pretty decent for his points cost.
Haldir: S tier: Really good shooting if you give him a bow (and you should always give him a bow!), plus his combat stats are pretty decent. Depending on how many points you want to spend, you could skip either the armor or cloak (best to take at least one of these though). His striking on death rule is a cheeky way to take an enemy model or two with him when he dies.
Orophin (Defence of the North): A tier: This guy hits very hard and has decent Defense. If he had access to Heroic Strike he'd probably be broken, especially at his cost. Well worth bringing though.
Galadhrim Captain: A tier: A very versatile hero with a variety of good options. Interestingly this is the only way Lorien has to get a mounted hero.
Wood Elf Captain: B tier: Costs almost as much as a Galadhrim Captain, but once he's in combat he's much squishier due to low Defense. Needs to leverage Stalk Unseen from his Elven Cloak, but that doesn't help him once the lines clash.
Galadhrim Stormcaller: D tier: Literally the same as the Rivendell version. Skip him.
Galadhrim Warrior: A tier: Identical to Rivendell's main warrior type, both in wargear options and stats. Just as good here.
Galadhrim Knight: C tier: Expensive skirmish cavalry. Lack of two-handed weapons or lances makes them quite weak for their points cost. Still worth having a few around for mobility.
Guard of the Galadhrim Court: S tier: For their cost, they have one of the best statlines in the game (Fight 6 and Courage 6 are amazing on troops!). Having pikes and the ability to use Shielding are the cherry on top. Always bring some of these.
Wood Elf Warrior: B tier: These are good on boards with plenty of terrain to hide in or behind, as their Elven Cloaks make them impervious to ranged attacks from farther than they can charge. Once the enemy does get close, they go down hard as they have very low Defense.
Wood Elf Sentinel: B tier: Very pricy, and suffer from the same low Defense issue as Wood Elf Warriors, but their Enchanting Song ability makes it potentially worth it to include one of these (basically a spell that you don't have to roll for).

Fangorn: B tier: An all-monster army. You won't have many models, but each one is a powerhouse (and each casualty you take is potentially devastating). Very one-dimensional as a result.
Units:

Spoiler:

The Misty Mountains: D tier: Another all-monster army, but the monsters in this list are nowhere near as good as the Ents. They are a bit cheaper, so you will have more of them, but they get significantly less good if they are the ones being charged rather than the ones charging.
Units:

Spoiler:

Kingdom of Khazad-dum: A tier: This army is one of the most durable in the game, and can hit really hard with certain heroes and warriors. Its only real weaknesses are lack of spear supports and lower movement speeds due to Dwarves' stubby little legs, but you've got sources of Heroic March to help make up for the second one.
Units:

Spoiler:

Durin, King of Khazad-dum: S tier: Durin has some of the best stats in the whole game (Defense 9!), one of the rare "Feel No Pain" rules to keep him alive, and allows one of the best warrior upgrades (Khazad Guard to Hearthguard). You should definitely consider this guy to be your leader.
Mardin: B tier: Mardin is a bit situational/meta dependent; his stats are decent for his points, but the generic King/Captain are usually better rounded.
Floi Stonehand: S tier: You can't bring him in a Durin list, but he's probably the best thing about a Balin list. Being able to turn off your opponent's characters' abilities on demand can potentially swing games.
Balin the Dwarf, King of Moria: A tier: This guy is your alternative to Durin. He's a lot cheaper, but definitely a step down in terms of power. Lists with Balin will tend to have more "stuff" than ones with Durin, so ultimately Balin is still perfectly viable to build an army around. He even lets you bring Gimli (from The Fellowship list) and/or Ori and Oin (from the Erebor Reclaimed list), if you so desire.
Dwarf King: S tier: One of the best non-named heroes in the game, and a great source of Heroic March.
Dwarf Captain: A tier: Not quite as good as a King, but cheaper.
King's Champion: S tier: This guy is a powerhouse who brings his own banner supports! Possibly the best non-named hero in the game (even better than a Dwarf King), and basically an auto-include in a Khazad-dum list.
Shieldbearer: B tier: Decent for protecting your leader, but there are much better heroes to spend the points on. Khazad-dum characters honestly don't need the protection all that much thanks to their legendary durability.
Dwarf Warrior: A tier: These guys compare quite well to most armies' basic troopers, being slower but more durable. They even provide great ranged support since a Dwarf bow is just an Elf bow with shorter range.
Khazad Guard: S tier: One of the best warrior profiles in the game, even without Durin's amazing Hearthguard upgrade. Always bring at least a few of these, and Durin can and probably should spam them.
Iron Guard: C tier: 2 attacks is very nice on a warrior, but they cost a lot. Worse, you're stuck with a sword as your weapon, which is redundant with Khazad-dum's army bonus. You could pay a point to weapon swap them, but then you're throwing good points after bad.
Dwarf Ranger: B tier: These guys are decently cheap and can provide longer-ranged bow support (albeit at S2 rather than S3 since they carry different bows from Warriors). It's worth bringing a few in most games.
Vault Warden Team: C tier: Good for going in the center of a battle line, as they won't do very well if they get flanked (the shield guy REALLY needs the spear guy supporting him!). Really good vs. monsters.
Dwarf Ballista: A tier: One of the better siege engines in the game for the cost. Bringing at least one is a good idea, but you can live without them if you want.

Wanderers in the Wild: No tier: These guys aren't an army, so they don't get a tier. Nobody in here is generally worth taking as they usually break your army bonus.
Units:

Spoiler:

More to come when I have more time. I would make this an article, but I don't know that anyone actually uses the Dakka article system anymore and I want this to be seen and discussed.

**krijthebold**

I'm not able to contribute much (numbers always just make my head spin) but I'm enjoying the commentary.

Also enjoying that Farmer Maggot is highly rated.

**ZergSmasher**

krijthebold wrote:
I'm not able to contribute much (numbers always just make my head spin) but I'm enjoying the commentary.

Also enjoying that Farmer Maggot is highly rated.

Farmer Maggot is a boss, for a Hobbit anyways. Which is fitting, based on the books.

Keep in mind that most of this is theorycrafting on my part, from watching battle reports and a couple of games I myself have played. So it may not reflect reality that well. It's mostly just a thought exercise.

**krijthebold**

Very fitting indeed. Back as a kid, reading the books for the first time, the Farmer Maggot chapter was one of my favorites.

I was an odd kid, I suppose.

But I approve of him being so tough.

**AnomanderRake**

Mirkwood is a bit of a one-trick pony, but since their one trick is "take one of the strongest brawlers in the game, give him a +1 to wound aura from the faction bonus, surround him with high-Fight armored foot, and throw the resulting death brick in the general direction of the enemy" I'd still rate them as solidly S-tier. Thranduil himself is one of the only heroes in Good with a Fight higher than 6, so he can fight a troll without needing to burn Might just to stay alive, he's got a silly number of attacks, and tends to kill anything you point him at. Once per game Wrath out of the crown to guarantee you charges into knocked-down enemies for a turn is just icing on the cake.

**Galas**

I would say Denethor is actually A+ alongside Boromir. The amount of troops he brings for how cheap he is, and allows you to burn Boromir without fear of giving your opponent victory points for killing your general.

Great post! I'll wait for the rest!

**ZergSmasher**

Thanks for the feedback! I don't have the Armies of the Hobbit at this time so I won't be commenting on the forces from that book yet, but I've heard about Mirkwood and Thranduil and how they kick total ass.

As for Denethor, I feel like he would be a bit of a liability, especially in missions where you need your leader to fight. I might have underestimated him and my experience with Minas Tirith is limited, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. Glad to see some discussion though; I welcome the input of more experienced players.

Update as of today: Added Fiefdoms, Dunharrow, and Arnor.

**Fergie0044**

Love the summaries, keep them coming!
I'm trying to get back into MESBG now and a common thing I read online is how well balanced it is in comparison to other GW games. Is that true to you think? Is there a big difference say between tier S and B?

**ZergSmasher**

Fergie0044 wrote:
Love the summaries, keep them coming!
I'm trying to get back into MESBG now and a common thing I read online is how well balanced it is in comparison to other GW games. Is that true to you think? Is there a big difference say between tier S and B?

Thanks for the encouragement, it's been fun doing this.

Balance-wise, it's definitely better than other GW games. The difference between S-tier and B-tier armies is a lot smaller than in 40k, for instance. I wouldn't expect anyone to win a tournament with anything lower than C-tier unless they were very, very good though. I haven't heard of anyone winning an event using a Shire list, for example. (of course maybe it's happened and I've missed it).

**Galas**

I have actually heard very good things about Shire lists. They are the good horde faction afterall..

The thing with MESBG is that "combos" are much rare and weaker and normally have finite uses, so your actual decisions on the table matter much more.

Of course, you need to have not a meta list, but at least a list that can tackle multiple missions and has some kind of tought behind it. But the sentiment of being completely useless won't come as often (Unless you are playing a very niche army like idk full mordor terror army facing a rohan royal guard cavalry list) as in warhammer.

The biggest diference in power I would say is between the hobbit armies and lotr armies, specially because of the heroes. Theres no reason why, thematically, the hobbit heroes are as powerfull as they are compared with lotr heroes. They are priced accordingly, but some, like Azog or Dain can feel oppresive.

Tought I remember when I made a drawn out of a uphill battle that was gonna be a lose with my black gate list vs a thranduill horde when my single buffed Trol Captain fought agaisnt Thranduil+12 other elfs, won, used all his rend attacks vs Thranduil and he failed his 3 fates with 3 2's. That was hilarous.

Personally I'm a big fan of evil men armies. They are very limited but you need to work hard for each win. You have no powerfull heroes, monsters or tricks, you need to win by pure tactical play. Dunland, Easterlings and Khand.

**krijthebold**

Ah, poor Ghan-buri-ghan. The wildmen as allies really makes sense, thematically, since that's their main role in the books. I like em, though.

**AnomanderRake**

Fergie0044 wrote:
Love the summaries, keep them coming!
I'm trying to get back into MESBG now and a common thing I read online is how well balanced it is in comparison to other GW games. Is that true to you think? Is there a big difference say between tier S and B?

There are balance problems, but they're largely to do with playing upper-tier heroes in too small of a game. If you're playing large games the amount of impact one hero can have on the outcome falls off quite a lot.

**ZergSmasher**

Finally got the last of the Good armies from Armies of the Lord of the Rings rated. I feel like I might have been a bit harsh on the Eagles though, but to my (admittedly untrained) eye they just seem like worse Ents. I'd be very curious if anyone has any thoughts on them.

**ZergSmasher**

Finally back to resume the tier list discussion, and because the OP is a bit lengthy already (not sure what Dakka's character limit per post is honestly) I'm going to put the Evil armies from Armies of The Lord of the Rings in this post. So without further ado:

FORCES OF EVIL

Barad-dur: A tier: This is a Sauron-led Mordor army, as in you don't play this without Sauron as otherwise it's just Mordor with a lot fewer options. Sauron is a raid boss though, easily able to take down anyone who gets in his way.
Units:

Spoiler:

The Dark Lord Sauron: S tier: As mentioned, this is why you play Barad-dur instead of Mordor. Sauron is incredibly difficult to take down, but be aware he is NOT indestructible and if he runs into a string of bad luck against the right enemies he could die quickly (so watch out for traps!). His other weakness is that he costs so much you will generally have a lot less stuff than your opponent, so consider spamming Orcs for board control.
The Witch-King of Angmar: A tier: In smaller games, he's hard to fit in alongside the Dark Lord, but in larger games he can be a nice secondary threat. Probably best used as a caster more than a beatstick, although he can be tooled for both roles as needed.
Ringwraith: A tier: Very decent utility caster, and can be scaled to fit almost any list. Could be a good second hero in a smaller list, or a third hero in a larger list.
Shelob: C tier: Decently durable and mobile, but only 1 base attack is lackluster for the cost (Monstrous Charge helps make up for this, but does nothing if she gets charged). Survival Instinct can also cause her to flee if she takes a hit. Just not really necessary in Barad-dur.
Orc Captain: B tier: Bog-standard Captain fare, usual statline. Decently cheap and makes a good second hero in smaller games if you just want more bodies.
Orc Shaman: B tier: Good if you are running lots of regular Orcs, as Fury is a big help for low-courage models (especially if facing a lot of Terror-causing enemies).
Orc Taskmaster: A tier: This guy is great for potentially saving you Might points on your movement-related Heroic actions. Taking this guy along with a Captain will help you get more mileage from both.
Orc Drummer: B tier: Another good take if you have lots of Orcs and need to get somewhere in a hurry.
Black Numenorean Marshal: A tier: Expensive, but quite beefy and hits like a freight train on the charge (if mounted with a lance). This guy is a better, but more expensive, alternative to an Orc Captain. Terror is just the cherry on top!
Mordor Troll Chieftain: A tier: Need a second beatstick besides the Dark Lord? This is your guy. Heroic Strike on a big monster is great. Great if you are NOT running a lot of models, as he doesn't really have any support abilities.
Orc Warrior: B tier: These guys are cheap enough to be spammable, but you get what you pay for. They do have options for better gear at least, but they are strictly worse than almost any Good troops.
Orc Tracker: B tier: If you want shooting in your army, these are better than normal Orcs. They do have lower defense than Orc Warriors though, so keep that in mind. Also, they can take Wargs for what that's worth.
Warg Rider: B tier: Cheap skirmish cavalry; good for mobility but don't expect them to perform on the level of Rohan riders. At least they have access to throwing spears, which are good.
Black Numenorean: A tier: Probably the only elite infantry Barad-dur has access to, and they are quite good. Much more expensive than Orcs, but probably worth the extra points if you don't mind being lighter on bodies.
Morgul Knight: S tier: One of the best shock cavalry units in the game; hits like a truck on the charge and difficult for some armies to counter-charge thanks to Terror.
Mordor Troll: A tier: Very solid monster profile; hand-and-a-half weapons might seem superfluous on a monster but against very high defense it can be worth two-handing your weapon so it's nice to have the option. The drum is probably not worth it most of the time.
Mordor Siege Bow: D tier: Hits decently hard, but it won't hit that often due to its crew's abysmal Shoot values. The points are probably better used elsewhere.
Mordor War Catapult: C tier: More accurate than the Siege Bow somehow and it comes with a Troll, but you pay a lot for it. Only worth it in larger games, and you might be better off with other stuff even then.

More to come when I have more time.

**judgedoug**

Hmm some of this doesn't match up with what's being discussed in GBHL; are you basing this on the feedback from the tournament scene?

**ZergSmasher**

judgedoug wrote:
Hmm some of this doesn't match up with what's being discussed in GBHL; are you basing this on the feedback from the tournament scene?

Most of this is just my personal musings and may well be WILDLY inaccurate; I don't have a massive tournament data set to look at (like lists, etc.) and am mostly doing this for fun and to stimulate discussion. Indeed, I hope I can be shown how I am wrong as it will only help me as a novice player with little experience.

**Fergie0044**

Hooray! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on all the evil armies.

**-Ekko-**

Waiting for he Evil forces review, as I really want to jump in with Mordor !

**ZergSmasher**

Finished up Barad-dur, will add Angmar next.