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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Based on the 1975 novel by James Clavell


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/02 16:23:50


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in pl
Dominating Dominatrix





Really liked the previous adaptation, and I am keen to see this one too.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

I like Shogun, just watched it again over the summer. I'm interested to see where this goes. t sure if having the Japanese retranslated will be a good thing or not. Yes I would like to know what they're saying but it was left out before to show Pilots isolation.

We'll see.

The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.

Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not real convinced of the lead guy. In earlier adaptation, they had Richard Chamberlain play Blackthorne, and with his mad charisma you could really buy him as someone who would be able to climb the social ladder. But, maybe the finished product proves me wrong, lets give them a chance.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

Do we know who's playing Lord Yabu?
Big boots to fill.

The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.

Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 warhead01 wrote:
Do we know who's playing Lord Yabu?
Big boots to fill.

According to Wikipedia, the role of Kashigi Yabushige is being portrayed by Tadanobu Asano.


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

First Look for the upcoming series:



'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

A little primer on this very well reviewed upcoming series :




"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Watched the first two episodes this morning. And being subtitled in most scenes, I’ll need to watch it again.

But I’m genuinely impressed. Can’t and won’t comment on its historical accuracy etc, but the sets are strong, acting is great, and we even get some kills in, without it being filmed to titilate which really adds to the casual nature of said violence.

   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Very solid opening two episodes in my opinion.

Historical stuff for anyone interested;

So first off, Shogun the novel while loosely based on the closing years of the Sengoku period, uses fictional stand-ins for historical figures. Some are more accurate than others, but the story is essentially an alt-history of the rise to power of Tokugawa Ieyasu ('Toranaga' in the story) as seen by fictional John Blackthorne (loosely based on the historical figure William Adams).

So in that way the book kind of isolates itself a bit from accuracy issues by overtly being historical fiction with an emphasis on fiction.

Some things I noticed just in the first two episodes that would not be generally accurate to Japan in this time period;

Spoiler:
-The Japanese did not think Portugal was the only country in Europe. In fact in 1582 a Japanese mission was sent to Europe representing the Christianized southern Daimyos who wished to establish formal relations with the Catholic church. Members of the mission were ordained Jesuit priests and returned to Japan in 1590 (10 years before Shogun is set). Japan's history as 'isolationist' while not untrue has often been greatly exaggerated in the West. It would be more accurate to say the Shogunate strictly controlled contact with the outside world and mainland Japan, rather than outright banning it but the late 16th century was a period where regional lords had more control over their own foreign relations before the Tokugawa centralized power.
-The katana, while it existed in this time, would not have been a primary weapon or symbol of Samurai class at this time. The weapon's ubiquitous adoption owes heavily to Edo era sword laws enacted by the Tokugawa shogunate.
-The Japanese military at this time, is way more modern than you probably imagine. In 1600 the Imjin War in Korea had only just ended and was fought by Japanese armies that had largely converted to firearms. This wouldn't change until after the Battle of Osaka (the last battle of the Sengoku era in its entirety) when internal warfare in japan essentially ceased and there simply wasn't much use for large armies armed with guns anymore. In 1600 though, a Japanese army would have had thousands of guns.
-Historically, by this point Tokugawa Ieyasu was gearing up for the Battle of Sekigahara, which essentially secured his rule and the period was mostly over save for the last holdouts plotting top elevate the heir of Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
-European trade with Japan had a history of being very regulated, as was the work of missionaries. Tokugawa largely reasserted these policies and continued them after a brief period of pause where Toyotomi Hideyoshi had more open relations before he became paranoid Christians were conspiring to take over the country. While the series makes it seem like the Portuguese had a monopoly, this is only loosely true. Portugal got to Japan first by several decades but eventually the Dutch, Spanish, and English were also trading with Japan once they got there through controlled ports like Nagasaki, but also on the southern islands of Okinawa and Ryukyu islands where Japanese merchants could trade more directly with Europeans outside of the Shogunate's direct authority and then bring the goods back to Japan.
-Tokugawa's historical interest in Adams was mainly his knowledge of Western shipbuilding and trade relations with the Netherlands. He arrived a few months before Sekigahara and established the first trade partnership between Japan and the Dutch and helped get Tokugawa in touch with other European traders.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/02/27 23:06:28


   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Watched the first episode last night and just finished the second. A very solid showing so far.

As for accuracy, FX posted a few videos on YouTube about the authenticity:





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/02/28 19:12:05


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

How is the swearing in this series? The book was the first time I can ever remember a sailor’s swearing loving up to the promise of “swearing like a sailor”, which added a feeling of authenticity for me.

   
Made in pl
Dominating Dominatrix





Watched first two episodes, and will continue. I am not sure if it is better than the old series but it is solid enough to stand on its own legs.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






Meanwhile, on the internet...

https://www.levelman.com/where-black-people-fx-shogun

...the comments section is priceless ^^
   
Made in pl
Dominating Dominatrix





 Albertorius wrote:
Meanwhile, on the internet...

https://www.levelman.com/where-black-people-fx-shogun

...the comments section is priceless ^^

Fortunately no one listened to cretins like him, and Shogun is free from that woke crap. My favourite comment - ''They were too busy hanging around 11th century Norway being Jarls and Housecarls, obviously. Source: the historical documentary that includes real footage from the period Vikings Valhalla.''

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/03/13 09:47:49


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It’s almost as if the whole culture war thing relies on bad faith arguments, such as trawling the interwebs for the most unhinged of hot takes, then presenting it as a majority view.

Hot takes do exist, and are best ignored. Or debunked with factual information.

   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






I particularly enjoyed the ending.

I was reading Shogun in anticipation of the show but when the contents of Ep1 were the better part of a week of reading I kind of dropped off.
Also it's massive and I can't carry it about easily on the work commute.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It was pretty spectacular!

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Albertorius wrote:
Meanwhile, on the internet...

https://www.levelman.com/where-black-people-fx-shogun

...the comments section is priceless ^^

Yeah, that's way worse than all of the videos saying Shogun is 'the next Game of Thrones' and speculating if there will be a season two

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s almost as if the whole culture war thing relies on bad faith arguments, such as trawling the interwebs for the most unhinged of hot takes, then presenting it as a majority view.

Hot takes do exist, and are best ignored. Or debunked with factual information.


This one's an especially silly hot take on multiple levels.

I don't know of any scholar worth a grain of salt who would confuse Japanese descriptions of the Ainu as describing black people, and while Ainu are darker skinned than the Japanese they're hardly black. I also feel like the author is just plain wrong. The description of Tamuramaro does not remotely match the Ainu, but rather the Emishi. Japan is indeed very peculiar about the topic of the Emishi (possible the original native inhabitants of Honshu), the Emishi are not described as black and they were wiped out/subsumed by the Japanese long before 1600.

No one of that description would have been around in central Japan by the time the show takes place, nor would the Ainu who in 1600 were actively resisting Japanese occupation far to the north of where the show takes place but their conflict was primarily with the Matsume domain, not the whole of Japan.

And it's not like we lack evidence of an actual black person in Japan at this time.

Yasuke, a slave purchased by Nobunaga who has gone on to become a minor legendary figure of the era, was described by Japanese contemporaries as a novelty (which would certain dismiss utterly the notion there were hordes of black people in Japan the Japanese were keeping secret). There probably were other African slaves present besides Yasuke but I feel like knocking Shogun for not featuring black people is like criticizing an 1820s Antebellum series set in Georgia for not featuring Koreans.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/03/13 21:26:25


   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

Episode 4 was really solid.

I am very happy that my misgivings about this show were, for now, misplaced.
It's nice to be wrong sometimes.

The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.

Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.  
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






TBF I think worrying about an adaptation will never go away, especially when so often the result is bad cough*Halo*cough.

Only downside is there's a guy at my work getting a bit too into putting random Japanese words into his day and let me tell you he does not speak the language well.
   
Made in pl
Dominating Dominatrix





NVM.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/05/08 14:04:37


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

I think episode 5 was good. I enjoyed that story point in the old series, it was an eye opener for Blackthorn.

I liked the story behind the swords he was given and it was very amusing that he would give those to Lord Toranaga who may have known the history of those swords.
The episode was almost like a wake up call for both characters in a way.


clever use of a dead Gardener as well, I had suspected they would go that rout.



The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.

Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.  
   
 
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