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Was about to post here that I quite enjoyed his look at Frostgrave(!), but then reading the last page of this thread..

 Pacific wrote:
Was about to post here that I quite enjoyed his look at Frostgrave(!), but then reading the last page of this thread..

For on topic discussion...

Yes, was quite enjoyable. I've not played Frostgrave myself but have made use of the minis for DnD / general fantasy purposes. Looking forward to more non-GW content from him.

stratigo wrote:
Him screwing over his ex wife is really really scummy. Like pure narcissist nonsense, and his new squeeze better be prepping herself when he pulls that gak on her

Last set of statistics I saw on the internet stated that 42% of marriages end in divorce.
On that stance, I guess half of the youtubers we watch are or will be divorced. That makes for a lot of youtube content we wouldn't watch on that principle.

As for Peachy, well I've really enjoyed watching the Juggz show he takes part in. It would of course be far better if Louise would stop interuptting everyone so much before they got to the end of their comment.

A lovely video on the Silver Bayonet:

 Dawnbringer wrote:
Oh god, not this again. Can we please keep this thread on the topic of Peachy and his new channel, and not have it degrade into a general hobby influencer soap opera thread.

Apparently not. :(

Speaking of Peachy, I watched his recent Frostgrave video and found it quite good, with a good mix of painting tips, game presentation... Just a shame that the video was titled something like "The best wargame ever, AoS finally dethroned" (or some similar nonsense), and right of the bat he admitted he had never played the game. That's a shame because his videos can really stand for themselves, he shouldn't need the clickbait to please the algorithmic gods of Youtube (thinking right now there is a parallel between what pleases the YT algorithm and the WH Chaos Gods).

I think the clickbait stuff really works on a lot of people, unfortunately. Plenty of youtubers say they've tried both approaches and the obnoxious thumbnails do better.

Yeah, that's a "hate the game not the player" situation for sure. Dude's gotta eat. At least he's covering Frostgrave at all.

From what he has said, clickbait titles and thumbnails are the necessary evil for him to make non-40K videos at all

As long as he doesn't change the presentation and production style, it's a compromise I can accept without issue

 Gimgamgoo wrote:



As for Peachy, well I've really enjoyed watching the Juggz show he takes part in. It would of course be far better if Louise would stop interuptting everyone so much before they got to the end of their comment.

I am quite enjoying Juggz, but actually yeah I have noticed that a lot.
Though the three do mesh well together.

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
From what he has said, clickbait titles and thumbnails are the necessary evil for him to make non-40K videos at all

He learnt it from Pat on the Painting Phase, who made no secret of using clickbait thumbnails, although they are often fairly tongue-in-cheek. And they’re nothing like the obnoxious (and repetitive) crap that channels like Discourse Minis use to try and attract gullible viewers.

I started watching the latest Painting Phase video, but quickly lost interest. I like Pat’s weird adverts, but the chat gets tedious. Really, there are very few of these YouTube personalities that I keep going back to. Even Louise Sugden’s charm and charisma can wear thin after a bit. The only one I find consistently engaging (outside the people who present quality battle reports, like SN and Tabletop Tactics) is ArbiterIan. I really rate that guy.

For what it's worth in his defense, he really doesn't like having to play the algorithm game to get views, but he's got a mortgage to pay and a family to support, so he's got to do what he's got to do to generate an income. He'd rather not have to mention gw products at all in unrelated vids, but that's the only way a channel like his can survive.

 straken619 wrote:
On the Peachy news topic...

Seems like Colourforge is making signature series on Kickstarter with Peach, Louise and some other content creators. Not sure when though. He just announced it yesterday.

One of those other content creators is Pete the Wargamer...

CorwinB wrote:

 Dawnbringer wrote:
Oh god, not this again. Can we please keep this thread on the topic of Peachy and his new channel, and not have it degrade into a general hobby influencer soap opera thread.

Apparently not. :(

Speaking of Peachy, I watched his recent Frostgrave video and found it quite good, with a good mix of painting tips, game presentation... Just a shame that the video was titled something like "The best wargame ever, AoS finally dethroned" (or some similar nonsense), and right of the bat he admitted he had never played the game. That's a shame because his videos can really stand for themselves, he shouldn't need the clickbait to please the algorithmic gods of Youtube (thinking right now there is a parallel between what pleases the YT algorithm and the WH Chaos Gods).

Clickbait measurably works, which is why it is used.

More people click then are turned away

I do hope Colourforge figure out a way to get their sprays sold in the US.

Sadly non-GW stuff is not favored by the algorithm, and so an element of clickbait titles and thumbnails does seem to help. Joining the Patreons (even at the new free tier) is a good way to support the creators you like and make sure their new videos get seen.

 mattl wrote:
I do hope Colourforge figure out a way to get their sprays sold in the US.

Sadly non-GW stuff is not favored by the algorithm, and so an element of clickbait titles and thumbnails does seem to help. Joining the Patreons (even at the new free tier) is a good way to support the creators you like and make sure their new videos get seen.

The issue with patreon as a model is the same as streaming really; it was fine when a few people in every niche were using it, but now that it's the standard where does it end? I totted it up once and if I signed up for the patreons of everyone I watch and all the creators I'd *like* to support I'd be forking over nearly 500 quid a month. The alternatives suck for creators as well of course; the algo is a vile mistress, ad revenue is down all over, and sponsorships are a minefield of shoddy products and predatory services(the amount of YT'ers continuing to shill BetterHelp even after being informed of their genuinely sinister aspects is actually a little depressing).

Perhaps - and I know this isn't going to be a welcome idea for many but it really has to be confronted - there simply isn't that big a commercial market out there for this kind of content and we're already at saturation point. Everyone's chasing their "big break" as a content creator, and perhaps that's the issue; it's evident that their content is, well, a product, rather than something worth experiencing in its own right. Outside of a small handful of creators like Vince Venturella and Sonic Sledgehammer, "hobbytube" really seems to lack the sense of authenticity that hobby content used to have when it was still mostly Blokes In Sheds just doing the things they liked doing anyway and sharing that enthusiasm. And while I can understand that not *all* of that Old Timey charm can survive the surge of new people who've come into the hobby in the last decade and youtube's increasing drive towards monetising every flicker of every eyeball, I do struggle a little to understand why it's still reasonably easy to find "classic" content in fields like music creation, DIY, woodworking, or even "guy ranting about urbanism and how much cars suck", but for wargaming almost everyone just seems to gravitate straight to the kind of "standard" template. I do notice that most of the channels I find which maintain that feel of authenticity didn't start off as explicitly commercial projects, they weren't their creator's "job" at the outset just enthusiastic amateurs, and while many now are their primary or only source of income it's a correlation I struggle to ignore.

The problem for me with Patreon over the past years has been the minimum tier going up. When I started using it most creators had a tier for $1/£1 and I would just pretty much chip that in for anyone I was remotely interested. I can easily give fifty different creators a quid each, and I don't want any special perks, just maybe a Patreon update when there's a new video out.

But instead it's been pushed more in the direction of higher monthly fees and more "exclusive" content. And yeah, for a creator I like, £5 a month is not much. But the reality is if I do that, I can afford to back ten creators, not fifty.

Which then makes it harder for new creators to get a look-in. I always thought the model should be "get 3000 people to give you a quid" rather than "get 600 people to give you a fiver" but it's not gone that way.

I'd agree that a lot warhammer related youtube has lost it's charm. A lot of very similar styles and approaches and not much genuine enthusiasm, generally making videos about "the new thing" because they do better.

Also a lot of "Oh I haven't painted in 20 years, let me just pick up this brush and knock out an absolutely stunning, highly technical paintjob to the background of that generic music everyone uses, with perfect macro camera work and editing". Yeah mate, sure. You're just a newbie!

On Patreon, I'm just not gonna pay for any of that stuff. I wouldn't watch it if it wasn't free, because it's mostly a waste of time anyway. I've also noticed that the more people try and make this stuff their job, the worse the quality generally is.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:
Perhaps - and I know this isn't going to be a welcome idea for many but it really has to be confronted - there simply isn't that big a commercial market out there for this kind of content and we're already at saturation point. Everyone's chasing their "big break" as a content creator, and perhaps that's the issue; it's evident that their content is, well, a product, rather than something worth experiencing in its own right. Outside of a small handful of creators like Vince Venturella and Sonic Sledgehammer, "hobbytube" really seems to lack the sense of authenticity that hobby content used to have when it was still mostly Blokes In Sheds just doing the things they liked doing anyway and sharing that enthusiasm. And while I can understand that not *all* of that Old Timey charm can survive the surge of new people who've come into the hobby in the last decade and youtube's increasing drive towards monetising every flicker of every eyeball, I do struggle a little to understand why it's still reasonably easy to find "classic" content in fields like music creation, DIY, woodworking, or even "guy ranting about urbanism and how much cars suck", but for wargaming almost everyone just seems to gravitate straight to the kind of "standard" template. I do notice that most of the channels I find which maintain that feel of authenticity didn't start off as explicitly commercial projects, they weren't their creator's "job" at the outset just enthusiastic amateurs, and while many now are their primary or only source of income it's a correlation I struggle to ignore.

I think there is a lot of sense in what you say. There is a real sameness to the channels that cover our hobby, that increasingly offers little that's really substantial or inspiring. This is also a problem with YouTube as a whole, where the insatiable need for content (and income) results in a huge amount of empty dross.

The Samenyness is often because the market at large follows very simple patterns too. Which often shoe-horns creators into the same slots; especially when they can't afford a research and marketing team to "push" a new direction of their own.

So one creator finds a niche that makes money; others see it and follow.

Youtube makes it worse because the algorithm 100% plays favourites with specific aspects and that further shoehorns certain content. Make the wrong content and your videos won't even get shown to followers and fans and if you don't get enough viewing within a certain timeframe, again you don't get shown.
It's gone from a helpful functional system to a very controlling and predatory system that has twisted what can work for many creators

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

Outside of a small handful of creators like Vince Venturella and Sonic Sledgehammer, "hobbytube" really seems to lack the sense of authenticity that hobby content used to have when it was still mostly Blokes In Sheds just doing the things they liked doing anyway and sharing that enthusiasm. And while I can understand that not *all* of that Old Timey charm can survive the surge of new people who've come into the hobby in the last decade and youtube's increasing drive towards monetising every flicker of every eyeball, I do struggle a little to understand why it's still reasonably easy to find "classic" content in fields like music creation, DIY, woodworking, or even "guy ranting about urbanism and how much cars suck", but for wargaming almost everyone just seems to gravitate straight to the kind of "standard" template. I do notice that most of the channels I find which maintain that feel of authenticity didn't start off as explicitly commercial projects, they weren't their creator's "job" at the outset just enthusiastic amateurs, and while many now are their primary or only source of income it's a correlation I struggle to ignore.

I wonder if there is some more authentic stuff on Twitch - easier to set up a camera and livestream and interact with audience without having to bother about editing stuff afterwards - but its not really a platform i use.

i also wonder if there is lots of it on youtube and its just buried so far down we never find it

There are loads of channels of people posting their hobby stuff, it's true. If you look for less popular games or model manufacturers you'll find them.

A lot of times it's someone with a potato camera making mouth noises into the mic, which is pretty authentic I guess! I whinged about slick editing after all!

Heh heh. I think that's a reason I prefer text for hobby stuff to video. If you're not very good at video production, videos can be kind of unpleasant to watch - shaking all over the place, really loud noises because of how the mic picks things up, and hearing every gurgle and wheeze of the presenters respiratory system.

So maybe they can't win, with me at least! I'm partial to terrain crafting channels, because actually seeing someone make the cut and handle the terrain as they work is really useful for understanding how to approach a build.