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So there's some talk about GW making a 'classic 40k game' in the mold of 3rd-8th edition.

30k = Horus Heresy
40k = the game up to like 8th edition
41k = post great rift, primarchs coming out of the woodwork etc

So here's an open thread for other Warhammer 40k (30k, 41k) eras you'd like to see rules/models/novels whatever for.

I'd like to see a Warhammer 29k game. Earth's unification, Thunder Warriors, ancient techno beasts, nomad warrior clans, the Emp, rogue psykers, ghosts and demons, you name it. Plus, y'know, a planet we've heard of and kind of care about. Skirmish scale, everything as John Blanche and Grimdark as you can make it. Basically Ash Wastes Necromunda but with new factions.

Other thoughts?

In terms of narrative? I’d like more post-scouring. I am of course aware of War of the Beast. But show us more of the Imperium’s decay. How the other races and great civilisations began to push it back.

Or, zoom in some. Show us the history of a Hive World, and let us follow its decay. But make it previously unnamed, so unlike Necromunda we can never be sure if it’ll survive.

The Macharian Crusade could be interesting - we get to see the Imperium on the front foot for once, even if only for a little while and only in a small section of space.

Then, if you're feeling nihilistic, we can see it all fall apart after Macharius perishes.

I would welcome the early part of the Great Crusade as that period of time would open up the creative front a LOT to have loads of other factions present who aren't in the lore now.

We'd lose Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, Genestaler Cults.

But on the flipside we'd have the potential for loads of otherwise minor factions to arise and populate the battlefields. Even though we know the Imperium would crush them eventually, there'd be huge creative potential outside of "marines marines and more marines"

GW could even be really sneaky and any super popular factions could do a sneaky "we got crushed but we went and hid and BOOM we reappear in 40K with new evolved designs and a new insight to reconquer all that we lost etc...."

Rather than a game set in Early Crusade?

I’d want a series of semi-heretical books written by a misguided Remembrancer. Books which document the art, architecture and that of the species defeated. Or pre-Unification Human Worlds.

Just art, and a whole lot of creativity, and even chances to drop in Easter Eggs.

For instance? The Ymgarl Genestealers. So far as we know, they were the first encountered. Or at least, the first time anyone bothered to document it.

A smaller initial incursion by Vanguard Organisms, stymied in their spread by the warp storms rendering their host planets incapable of inter-system flight? Well that’s a way to drop in “wait….was that a Genestealer Cult?”.

I mean, to the untrained eye, a Hybrid is Just A Mutant. And a Genestealer of any stripe is just another ugly Xenos in dire need of a good stomping.

And you can do a lot there with just impressionistic art (possibly historical, relating to a cult being uncovered and eradicated in the system’s past) and blurry pict captures of some Xenocryptid.

With the coming of the Leagues of Votann? You can really mess with heads. See, they traded Ion Tech with the Tau. And even today, there’s a visual resemblance between Kin and Tau Ion Weaponry.

We know that lineage extends back to the Heresy era at least. Ref?



So have examples of that family of weapons being wielded by Xenos or Far Flung Humans. Might be enough to get some believing it must therefore be its descendants that created the Tau and so on.

All sorts of stuff you can hint and mislead about.

Mid M35 to mid M36

The Imperium is split by the Nova Terra Interregnum and Moirae Schism (mechanicus civil war) leading to the rise of the Ecclesiarchy in the Cataclysm of Souls and then into the Age of Apostasy itself.


It's a more interesting and varied Horus Heresy imo.

I would like to see continued fleshing out of the universe PRIOR to 8th edition.

38-40k
Where us grognards can continue to enjoy the 40k universe we loved before Primaris Marines and Returning Primarchs started messing everything up.

The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.

great crusade feels more ripe for new factions and whatnot than any other period, 38k-40k for stability of the setting.

I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

Meanwhile you have GW campaign books that read like a script of a Michael Bay Film and are just as interesting. Ooh, there are Gorkanauts incoming, let's scream for the emprah and slay them, oh no, it's not working, but ah, Deus Ex Machina, the Knights have arrived! But oh no, now there's a gargant out of nowhere, let's scream for the emprah again! Oh good, we screamed it long enough for the airstike to arrive. But oh no, the Orks have aircrafts, too...

This is probably a tangent to this thread, but my point stands: we don’t really need books about other eras, we just need more good books...
Write an Imperial Armour Book in The Beast arises setting of 32K and make one of these annoying final battles more plausible or explain why the Orks didn't just death star Terra.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

This is probably the least realistic hope in this thread, sadly. Look at how 30k book quality went downhill from second edition on.

Not because the second edition books like Beta-Garmon were awful or anything, but because the first edition ones were as awesome as you describe, which is a tall height to fall from.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

This is probably the least realistic hope in this thread, sadly. Look at how 30k book quality went downhill from second edition on.

Not because the second edition books like Beta-Garmon were awful or anything, but because the first edition ones were as awesome as you describe, which is a tall height to fall from.

Yeah, I've been reading the first 4 or 5 red 30K FW books back in the day. They were that awesome I'd pull them out while sipping wine with my gaming buddy, and we both never touched the 30K game.
As a DG Fan I also listened to Flight of the Eisenstein and was like... this is not as awesome as it sounded when Alan Bligh wrote about it...

 Ashiraya wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm currently reading the Taros campaign, Imperial Armour 3, before that I read the Doom of Mymeara.
My stance is: I don't care which era you write about, as long as it's written like these Imperial Armour books which are all kinds of awesome and might be the best and most plausible/ realistic(?) depiction of 40K's grimdark setting.
You really get a feeling of operational and strategic problems and well written battle plans and so on, all making a small campaign on a backwater planet extremely interesting to read.

This is probably the least realistic hope in this thread, sadly. Look at how 30k book quality went downhill from second edition on.

Not because the second edition books like Beta-Garmon were awful or anything, but because the first edition ones were as awesome as you describe, which is a tall height to fall from.

The degradation is a great tragedy.
Forgeworld gave such a realistic and gritty impression of the universe, you could taste it.
GW's newer books meanwhile feel little better than a showcase of their newest models with some vague and shallow lore.
Like the newest Tallarn book, which takes a planet apparently characterised by an atmosphere so toxic and caustic that basically only heavily armoured vehicles can be used, and depicted large numbers of forces fighting exposed even without helmets. Just because that's the kit they sell and they didn't bother taking out the unhelmeted men from the studio, let alone converting anything.

How about the War In Heaven?

You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.

Thinking about an old, old idea.

Warhammer 50k.

After the Tyranids ate 90% of the galaxy.
After the Nids were lured into the Eye of Terror creating something even worse.
After everything...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232494.page

A pitch from back in 2008

 Eilif wrote:


The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.

I really like this idea. It could be a move away from Legends to an Era style of game.

One unifying ruleset, but one where the only usable units where those in 7th or earlier (with the possible inclusion of characters from that setting even if the model was made later, like Ciaphas Cain.) This version would also allow for custom and converted models as many of the models no longer exist.

Then you have the current version which is basically as is with Legends and whatnot. Or only to some extent as some tech no longer exists.

You could have a Unification Wars Era too that has rules for Aeldari and Orks, but doesn't step on HH's toes while not preventing you from doing HH stuff if you want to.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thinking about an old, old idea.

Warhammer 50k.

After the Tyranids ate 90% of the galaxy.
After the Nids were lured into the Eye of Terror creating something even worse.
After everything...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232494.page

A pitch from back in 2008

This would be cool as a one off campaign book or something. Like a vision of a possible future and rules to modify current 40k to play in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I'd like to see a Warhammer 29k game. Earth's unification, Thunder Warriors, ancient techno beasts, nomad warrior clans, the Emp, rogue psykers, ghosts and demons, you name it. Plus, y'know, a planet we've heard of and kind of care about. Skirmish scale, everything as John Blanche and Grimdark as you can make it. Basically Ash Wastes Necromunda but with new factions.

I would love a game like this, but I don't think the setting is popular enough to ever get an actual tabletop release.

That being said, I would love it if they made a dudes on a map board game where you play as the various Warlords of Terra trying to conquer the world.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lastly. I think it would be pretty interesting to have something based on the War In Heaven. Both pre and post transformation Necrons, Krork, ancient Aeldari, C'Tan and old ones abound.

Not sure the best way to go about this one, again, probably far too niche of a setting for a tabletop game, and too large for a skirmish game. Maybe a space conquest fleet style game? Though at that point, it would have to be pretty damn amazing to want to make me play it over something like Twilight Imperium.

Hmm... not sure what to do with that one, but it would be cool. Maybe just a book or something would be better?

I don't see much appeal in different time periods. If I want to limit myself to what existed during a specific time period, I can just do that using the most modern set of rules either way.

For me if GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem

Calbear wrote:How about the War In Heaven?

You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.

Overread wrote:For me if GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem

I also think a game set in the War in Heaven would be a great idea and it would allow the creative team to go all out as the time difference is so vast there is now way one would effect the other.

True, though its kind of a bit like when GW did that whole alliances push one edition where everyone got loads of allies and Tyranids were on their own.

Only in that case of the War in Heaven its Necrons VS loads of Old One created factions.



That's why I favoured the idea of the Imperium shattering in 40K and letting other races get their heads up for once. It's a means to telling stories about other factoins that aren't bound to a single alliance/powerbase.



War i Heaven also has potential at filling gaps in the story that honestly the story is stronger for in not filling in.

 KingGarland wrote:

Calbear wrote:How about the War In Heaven?

You'd have Necrons, Eldar, and Orks. All at their strongest. You'd also get to see what a fully intact C'tan can do or what the Old Ones could do before they left the galaxy.

Might be a harder to sell without any humans involved, but still a great era.

Overread wrote:For me if GW did a different time period I want to see creativity and originality within the line. I don't just want to see Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and MAYBE Chaos in different styles.

We've got that - we've got mountains of that.

I want to see what AoS has in a sci-fi setting - more variety; creativity; original ideas within the GW ecosystem

I also think a game set in the War in Heaven would be a great idea and it would allow the creative team to go all out as the time difference is so vast there is now way one would effect the other.

I think you'd end up with a lot of the same downsides as the Horus Heresy, but arguably worse. In addition to stealing some cool mystery from the setting, you'd have to pin down enough details about the conflict that you'd risk raising a lot of new questions or just creating contradictions.

The scope and scale of the War in Heaven is also so crazy that I'm not sure it lends itself to a particularly exciting/interesting story. It's the space fantasy equivalent of final season anime nonsense where everyone is so powerful it's impossible to have tangible stakes or for anything to have weight. In M41, you can have a story about dudes sneaking around in the mud so they can try to plant a bomb on an ammo depot. In the War In Heaven, you can't really tell the equivalent of that story because everyone is too busy throwing suns at eachother and using Mephiston level psychic feats as standard attacks.

Eh 40K setting has insane scale also. 30K too for that matter

At some point the numbers just become a backdrop of a concept as they are so far outside of our regular experiences and understanding that they can't be related too directly.

So I'm sure you could find loads of stories within the setting that don't involve worlds being shattered apart by godlike powers. Consider that the Necrons in 40K are the same Necrons that won the war - a bit rustier and worn out; but the same ones and they've clearly got regular armies and armed forces to fight with.

If it was all god-like war engines and such the the Necrons wouldn't have bothered with transferance. Why convert your people if the only reliable weapons are god-scale.


My impression is that there were insane scale weapons, but also lots of regular "boots on ground combat". I think likely promoted by the fact that the Old Ones tactic seemed to mostly rely on uplifting other races to fight for them.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

The scope and scale of the War in Heaven is also so crazy that I'm not sure it lends itself to a particularly exciting/interesting story. It's the space fantasy equivalent of final season anime nonsense where everyone is so powerful it's impossible to have tangible stakes or for anything to have weight. In M41, you can have a story about dudes sneaking around in the mud so they can try to plant a bomb on an ammo depot. In the War In Heaven, you can't really tell the equivalent of that story because everyone is too busy throwing suns at eachother and using Mephiston level psychic feats as standard attacks.

You could possibly make an interesting card game around it as long as you committed to the idea that things like Shahrazad were the kind of baseline effects you designed the game around. Use Worlds in place of Lands and make their destruction a core element and we're getting somewhere.

 Overread wrote:
If it was all god-like war engines and such the the Necrons wouldn't have bothered with transferance. Why convert your people if the only reliable weapons are god-scale.

Because it was sold to them as a way to escape their extremely fragile, short-lived and cancer-ridden biological bodies. (And the C'tan did it to get the Necrons to let them eat their souls freely).

 Tawnis wrote:

 Eilif wrote:


The game, or at least the fiction, would really benefit from well defined eras. Similar to Battletech.

I really like this idea. It could be a move away from Legends to an Era style of game.

One unifying ruleset, but one where the only usable units where those in 7th or earlier (with the possible inclusion of characters from that setting even if the model was made later, like Ciaphas Cain.) This version would also allow for custom and converted models as many of the models no longer exist.

Then you have the current version which is basically as is with Legends and whatnot. Or only to some extent as some tech no longer exists.

You could have a Unification Wars Era too that has rules for Aeldari and Orks, but doesn't step on HH's toes while not preventing you from doing HH stuff if you want to.

Indeed. I don't think GW would go for it since it's the date and state of the game are so attached to the miniatures they have in current production, but it's a nice idea and it would give GW a reason to revisit various eras in 40k's past.

We kind of have a bit of precedence for this in the AoS and Old World split and in the 30k/40k split, but those are all separate games with currently-produced miniatures.

Something without even a hint of a Space Marine. War in Heaven?

I wonder if War in Heaven could work as a campaign book with existing models?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if War in Heaven could work as a campaign book with existing models?

Necrons are the only ones' that do have models for that era though, no? We don't even really know if Krorks are actually orks and if they are, they should look very different.

Krorks would basically be Ork Space Marines from what I can recall - organised, smart, brutal and efficient. No ramshackle football hooligans. Oh and much bigger took.

Also Necrons would depend on when in the War in Heaven you set it; plus the issue that even if you set it after the Transferance, the Necrons should look shiny and new; not half damaged which most of them are now. You'd also likely lose some forms. Destroyers and Flayed Ones appear to be errors that arise much later as a result of their minds going insane after so long being a machine without a soul.

So even Necrons would need a whole new model line.

Unification Wars on Terra could be awesome, though I wonder if GW still has the artistic chops for that. But some of the necromunda stuff gives me hope.

I'd also like really good books like the old Forgeworld books for the Great Crusade itself, with plenty of wacky new Xenos and all the old favourites too, along with some of the human civilisations crushed by the crusade. Amazing scope for a game there.
But again, I'm skeptical that GW exploring that would produce stuff I actually like, and I'm sure it'd be way too focused on Primarchs for my liking.

So I think what I like the best is the pre-Great Rift "classic" setting and possibly also something in the middle between the Heresy and the classic, where you can have fun with a new status quo.

But for most of these, I believe we as players would be better off exploring it ourselves and being creative than waiting for GW to feed stuff to us.

re the idea of 50k, honestly I don't believe the idea that the tyranids are inevitable to have consumed the galaxy, 2-3 hive fleets have been stopped, at least in the era of lore i'm familiar with, if they've added anything after 6e that makes them "inevitable" then that is just a silly idea that needs scrubbed.

50k might still be an interesting idea but I don't know how you'd make it work.