http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/05/10/network-news-breaking-sisters-rumor-news/

I want to confirm for everyone that the Sisters new “book” will be coming out sometime this year (most likely before the Necron release). There is more– SoB will be White Dwarf only release stretched over two issues, with a online PDF by the end of the year. I had reported this possibility (in a cryptic matter before) on BoLS, so this is a confirmation of said rumor. Cruddace will be the author for PDF as well. No word on new sculpts, but my bet is on only resin recast of existing models. As for the rules I have nothing to report as of yet, but look for at least two ecclesiastical characters from the fluff/past to appear in the new dex.

Cruddace's name is a bit of a surprise as rumor was Kelly was working on the codex after leaving Ward the job of finishing Grey Knights. This could just mean Kelly is working on an eventual 'real' codex to be released along with new miniatures, but that's just baseless speculation.

It could also explain those screenshots of rules in a presumably new Sisters of Battle codex from early April.

BoK is one cool dude, he can confirm his own rumours!

Sounds iffy to me

They were correct for the most part on Grey Knights and made some correct calls on Dark Eldar (though they weren't without some mixups); I'd definitely give whatever they say some consideration.

I would hope, if true, that this is nothing more than a stopgap and that a "true" Codex would be forthcoming, unless they don't really have any plans to update Sisters models any time soon.

What nooooooooooooooooooooo..........

I hope this really isn't true.

Head in hands right now.

What about those plastic Sisters rumours we heard not long ago about those "amazing" models people had seen.

This is no good if there are conflicting rumours.

They could still be working on a 'true' codex for 6th. As for the rumors about the models, most of that came from Stickmonkey, didn't it?

bhsman wrote:They could still be working on a 'true' codex for 6th. As for the rumors about the models, most of that came from Stickmonkey, didn't it?

No, most of them came from Jes Goodwin himself during interviews about the Dark Eldar stuff.

Yeah I think it was Stickmonkey. Though there were few of them backing those rumours. I think ??

hmm, sounds plausible enough to me.

They could then use up any/all stocks of the current range of SoB, or any short term replacements in a possible alternative substance possibly, removed the Witchhunters rules completely -- meaning we don't have different assassin rules -- and perhaps provide a sales boost to a range that is likely to be somewhat moribund otherwise.

Kanluwen wrote:No, most of them came from Jes Goodwin himself during interviews about the Dark Eldar stuff.

Aside from those, I mean. Stickmonkey's rumors about the lace on the boots, etc. Goodwin was most referring to the trouble the robes were creating, not about finished models.

ceorron wrote:Yeah I think it was Stickmonkey.

Welp, there's your problem...

Well keep in mind the last pdf book GW did was for Chaos Fantasy. DoC was released and they felt the need to revamp the Warriors of Chaos via WD so as to make a clean split between daemons and warriors. The actual book followed about a year later.

Pretty similar situation now with Grey Knights/Dh and Sisters of Battle/WH. Perhaps the SoB plastics are a ways off and in the meantime they want to clean up the rules a bit and get the last of the 3ed codexes redone before 6ed? As with the fantasy chaos, the actual SoB dex could follow soon after, likely early on in 6ed.

Also, what better way to show off the new resin capabilties then some resin SoB models?

Finally, Jes is working on SoB for sure, but how long did he work on DE? Yeah years and years.

So these rumors seem plausible to me anyways. And BoK has a good track record so far for rumors.

bhsman wrote:

ceorron wrote:Yeah I think it was Stickmonkey.

Welp, there's your problem...

Damn

Well I suppose there is always going to be necrons to look forward to.

I can appreciate people get frustrated, but can we please not start or continue slating Mr. Stickmonkey please.

I can state with 100% cast iron truthfulmess that he does indeed "pop in" to the GW HQ and does see things at various stages. If he or others don't draw the correct conclusions or things change at some stage that he doesn't see that's not really his fault.

Seems plausible that SoB would get a rules-only dex in white dwarf. Theyre obviously one of the least popular army given the lack of attention over the past decade

If i were a sob player I would love any update even if you dont get all new fluff to read (is that really a loss?)

Although I dont think they'd get a 6th ed book.. That may be contingent on the popularity of the minidex

any update is a good update tbh especially if its soon!

hopefully it is just a stopgap for a proper codex next year!

Kirasu wrote:Seems plausible that SoB would get a rules-only dex in white dwarf. Theyre obviously one of the least popular army given the lack of attention over the past decade.

Least popular at GW, maybe. For an army that's been treated like GW's red-headed stepchild they're doing unusually well.

If i were a sob player I would love any update even if you dont get all new fluff to read (is that really a loss?)

Yes, it's really a loss. The Sisters need two things: plastic infantry and more fluff that's not just the same old overview of the Age of Apostasy. A WD 'dex gives us neither.

winterman wrote:Well keep in mind the last pdf book GW did was for Chaos Fantasy. DoC was released and they felt the need to revamp the Warriors of Chaos via WD so as to make a clean split between daemons and warriors. The actual book followed about a year later.

Pretty similar situation now with Grey Knights/Dh and Sisters of Battle/WH. Perhaps the SoB plastics are a ways off and in the meantime they want to clean up the rules a bit and get the last of the 3ed codexes redone before 6ed? As with the fantasy chaos, the actual SoB dex could follow soon after, likely early on in 6ed.

Also, what better way to show off the new resin capabilties then some resin SoB models?

Finally, Jes is working on SoB for sure, but how long did he work on DE? Yeah years and years.

So these rumors seem plausible to me anyways. And BoK has a good track record so far for rumors.

I second this post. Largely.

I admit, I'm not too sure about the plausibility of this rumour and the all-resin models, however BoK does seem to be pretty good with rumours so far and it would make sense to keep sisters players happy about their delayed plastics/dex.

However, that they are doing it to keep up with the current rules and as a stop-gap, kind of like the WoC doesn't make masses of sense to me as they could've done this with any of the OLD armies in the past several hundred years surely?

Interesting...

I wouldn't mind a stopgap-dex, but sisters really do need a real revamp.

Is it just me, or did BoK's blog get suspended.....

Doesn't make sense to me and conflicts with Jes Goodwin working on the plastic sisters.
Work on Codex Sororitas was started half a year after Grey Knights. All that for 10 pages in a WD?
I still hope for a real Codex with real new miniatures until better evidence is provided.

Apparently someone or something didn't like the rumors that got posted....? I'm having the same issue trying to access the page. Kinda sad since BoK is pretty freakin awesome. Wonder why i's down...

^^^Yea, I'm having trouble as well. They should be able to post about it on Facebook unless that was taken down as well.

reds8n wrote:I can appreciate people get frustrated, but can we please not start or continue slating Mr. Stickmonkey please.

I can state with 100% cast iron truthfulmess that he does indeed "pop in" to the GW HQ and does see things at various stages. If he or others don't draw the correct conclusions or things change at some stage that he doesn't see that's not really his fault.

Scary red text or not, my point wasn't that Stickmonkey intentionally misleads us, only that, as a general rule, what he sees either doesn't always come to fruition. He's just unreliable. The PAGK Justicar with a double-bladed halberd? Chaos Icons messing with GK Deep Striking? Do I have to repost the entirety of his hilariously bad Tyranid rumors?

Even if you can vouch for him, that doesn't change his track record. Not his fault as you say, but that doesn't mean we should treat him as a credible source of rumors compared to Harry/BoK/et cetera.

Anyways, that'll be my last post on the subject.

infrenis wrote:Apparently someone or something didn't like the rumors that got posted....?

It's an omen!

I would love an update similar to the Blood Angels one they did a while back, it's better than nothing and won't take too much work. In fact I NEED IT I hope this is true as WD/GW need to release more of that kind of content IMO.

For all the metal I still love the Sisters minis and am fortunate enough to have bought enough of them a while back.

They're obviously one of the least popular army given the lack of attention over the past decade.

I don't think it's a case of Sisters being unpopular, just very old & having so many core updates to do before them (Space Marines - including Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Orks, Eldar, CSM) & the possibility of having trouble with the model range. If they made the models/dex & rules well enough then they'd be popular, after all they have a strong concept & corset-like power armour - what's not to like?

It would actually make a little bit of sense if they were going to be the new starter box army vs. chaos marines

But seriously I'd be cool with an update to help push out their last few models. Anything to bring them a little more current is good. Especially if it's a 1-year stop gap or so. That would bring all codexes out of 3rd edition before the end of summer. And only leave 4 or so in 4th edition which is a huge bump from where we were at at the beginning of 5th.

I just meant they werent popular because GW doesnt support them, thus they lose player support and GW supports them less.. etc, etc

Honestly I think the SoB are a lot cooler than DE, necrons or nids (maybe not new fluff necrons).. and I wish they'd get an update. Heck I would have liked them to get a new book before GK since I dont know if I like the "we're the super awesome best space marines" that the GK fluff gives off

Its just GW answers to bean counters, so I suspect this white dwarf dex is to test popularity

I dont see how GW could take down a blog page, its not like they have any authority over "rumors" someone posts. Unless theyre an employee with a NDA I suppose, which I doubt BoK is. Or they are a scary umbrella corporation, which somehow I doubt

How long was it between the WD BA 'codex' and the right proper one?

Possibly what we'll see here for SoB, I'd imagine.

Some rumours I trust more, even if they are not pleasant:

ghost21 wrote:Yeah sisters will be 5 to a box with options for seraphim though (I wished it wasn't true but unfortunatley I've seen the evidence)
(...)
Please don't hit me with a broom.
Only reported what I saw.

tastyfish wrote:So no chance of extra legs on another bit then? Or was it pretty obviously a complete set?

I'm not saying it's impossible. I certainly don't see everything. Those SoM Monsters for instance popped up without me seeing anything.
It looked like a complete sprue . I have heard repentia getting a plastic kit though

And on BoK rumours:

ghost21 wrote:ok that is ironious they will have a proper dex or ill run through the streets of notingham hailing the end of civiliation naked n painted yellow
i can only go by the sprue i saw though
(...)id love wd updates for kroot mecs and LatD but frankly it wont happen

Culgore wrote:Interesting... BoK has been shutdown. Maybe they were on to something...

They were trying to leak pages from upcoming books

evilsponge wrote:Do you know this for sure?

yep a memo was given to people legal action was going to be directed towards certain sites
BoK was one of them
(why BoK would email and tell GW what they were planning was amazingly dumb)

I hate to admit it, but Sisters of Battle is perhaps the smallest community among the various codex factions. Even before GK got their new codex, Daemon Hunters were a lot popular than Witch Hunters.

I am disappointed at the prospects of no new models, but a recast of the old to resin. It does at least verify's GW trying to move away from metal cast. At the same time, I'm also happy as I've collected a mass a large Sisters of Battle army almost apocalypse scale. I don't care if GW recycles their current models into the new codex, just as long as Sisters gets more durable vehicles such as Vendettas and maybe even the Storm Raven. Perhaps AV12 front Repressors elusive forge world product? They've already done that to the Vendetta option and dual-autocannon Dread. Any new rules and vehicles that will give the Sisters a fighting chance in Annihilation missions and against MSU armies is welcomed.

Heard that argument before with Wood Elves, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar. All became very popular after the release.
Sometimes you have to promote those miniature ranges that need it, not only those that don't need it.

I would say this is very interesting news, having recently purchased most of my sisters to start my own force it will be fun to see what they come up with or possibly standardize with other dex's out there. Truth be told though, although there are not as many options with the existing codex I am fairly happy with it and its uniqueness. So my only hope is that they do not destroy aspects of this army that truly make it unique.

Alpharius wrote:How long was it between the WD BA 'codex' and the right proper one?

Possibly what we'll see here for SoB, I'd imagine.

I was thinking the same thing. It was July -Aug 2007 to April 2010 so 31 months.

Enslaviour wrote:I would say this is very interesting news, having recently purchased most of my sisters to start my own force it will be fun to see what they come up with or possibly standardize with other dex's out there. Truth be told though, although there are not as many options with the existing codex I am fairly happy with it and its uniqueness. So my only hope is that they do not destroy aspects of this army that truly make it unique.

I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

That's disappointing if true.


I clicked on the link and it says the account has been suspended. What does that mean?

Anyway, SoB need a whole new codex, not a WD one. But I suppose it's better than nothing. I hear they're getting away from nuns in latex anyway.

CT GAMER wrote:

Enslaviour wrote:I would say this is very interesting news, having recently purchased most of my sisters to start my own force it will be fun to see what they come up with or possibly standardize with other dex's out there. Truth be told though, although there are not as many options with the existing codex I am fairly happy with it and its uniqueness. So my only hope is that they do not destroy aspects of this army that truly make it unique.

I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

It's Dread-nighties actually.

The whole new range is based around clothes to die for. Literally.

reds8n wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Enslaviour wrote:I would say this is very interesting news, having recently purchased most of my sisters to start my own force it will be fun to see what they come up with or possibly standardize with other dex's out there. Truth be told though, although there are not as many options with the existing codex I am fairly happy with it and its uniqueness. So my only hope is that they do not destroy aspects of this army that truly make it unique.

I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

It's Dread-nighties actually.

The whole new range is based around clothes to die for. Literally.

"Bodice of St. Domina"

"master-crafted push-up bra"

etc.

As for the two characters: my bet is Jacobus and Kyrinov

CT GAMER wrote:
I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

You mean Penitent Engines?

Sisters had the Sanguinor first too... shes called Celestine.

I'm pretty bummed by this rumor, I'd rather just not get an update to be honest. Spread out over 2 White Dwarfs too... so to get a hardcopy version of the 'Dex' we get to pay almost as much for a normal codex, but likely won't get lots of the fluff/overhaul that comes with a real release. Oh goody.

Creeping Dementia wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:
I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

You mean Penitent Engines?

No I mean the overpriced mail order upgrade kit of a SOB in a baby Bjorn that you will add to a Dread Knight...

I'm not buying this rumor. Coming out with a codex and new models for Grey knights and Dark Eldar appeared to sell very well and revamped interest in older armies.

I don't think they'll move away from a business model that puts fast cash in their hands.

CT GAMER wrote:

reds8n wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Enslaviour wrote:I would say this is very interesting news, having recently purchased most of my sisters to start my own force it will be fun to see what they come up with or possibly standardize with other dex's out there. Truth be told though, although there are not as many options with the existing codex I am fairly happy with it and its uniqueness. So my only hope is that they do not destroy aspects of this army that truly make it unique.

I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

It's Dread-nighties actually.

The whole new range is based around clothes to die for. Literally.

"Bodice of St. Domina"

"master-crafted push-up bra"

etc.

As for the two characters: my bet is Jacobus and Kyrinov

Lawl, I can see them all having the ability to call upon faith to activate red rage!.

CT GAMER wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:
I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

You mean Penitent Engines?

No I mean the overpriced mail order upgrade kit of a SOB in a baby Bjorn that you will add to a Dread Knight...

I hate that model so much, I so hope that they don't carry over the dread knight.

To say that I'm skeptical would be an understatement. I think they're pullin' this info out from their local store's manager, rather than somewhere actually reliable.

While I don't mind the idea of "white dwarf" lists (not having to pay $30 for a book? yes please.) my problem is that GW has a mixed record. The BA list actually was done quite well, it's problems stemming from design philosophy rather than anything wrong with the format, but the Warriors of Chaos army list in mid 2008 was...awful, literally a 5 minute cut/paste job by the office intern and didn't even include many SC's with models, I remember because when I bought Archaon's model he wasn't actually useable in an army.

Either way, the WD format by itself sounds good to me, but I hope it's not an excuse to just be lazy rather than cut costs.

I dont know.. GW usually only wields their ham-fists when people are gonna post real info like pictures. However I still dont see how they can take down the entire webpage in like 1 hour

It doesnt just go like this

Games WOrkshop: "Hello, is this the internet?"
Internet "Yes sir this is the internet"
Games workshop: "Some of our info is about to be leaked can you shut down this website?"
Internet: "Of course sir, what is the webpage?"

Unless games workshop is a government agency with authority over the domain in question then its just not going to happen in the matter of minutes lol

Something else must be going on.. Or it's been an ongoing situation

Kirasu wrote:
Games WOrkshop: "Hello, is this the internet?"
Internet "Yes sir this is the internet"
Games workshop: "Some of our info is about to be leaked can you shut down this website?"
Internet: "Of course sir, what is the webpage?"

Can I have my dreams back please?

Kirasu wrote:I dont know.. GW usually only wields their ham-fists when people are gonna post real info like pictures. However I still dont see how they can take down the entire webpage in like 1 hour

It doesnt just go like this

Games WOrkshop: "Hello, is this the internet?"
Internet "Yes sir this is the internet"
Games workshop: "Some of our info is about to be leaked can you shut down this website?"
Internet: "Of course sir, what is the webpage?"

Unless games workshop is a government agency with authority over the domain in question then its just not going to happen in the matter of minutes lol

Something else must be going on.. Or it's been an ongoing situation

If it was due to GW Uk then their lawyers are working very late today.

Wait, I have it!

1) Release crazy rumor
2) Put a fake redirect showing your site as suspended
3) Love your new street cred

Another rumour:

Harry wrote:

ghost21 wrote:actually the plastic penitent engine looks basicaly like the current one

Much like the steam tank .... the brief was just to remake it in plastic

I am skeptical as well. Then what were those prototype models for sisters that looked so good that many of us have seen?

Sisters do need an update but please do it right and give them a full Codex.

I heard they were getting a combined Codex with Grey Knights?

Awww common, I did so love that rumour.

No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

I'm skeptical. A WD list seems more the kind of thing you do when you either want to introduce a completely new faction (in which case, the list is really a widely-distributed playtest) or when you want to throw a bone to fans without doing any serious improvements to the faction. The fact that GW has apparently been working on new figures for the Sororitas seems to fly in the face of that.

Phazael wrote:No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

He also wrote the IG codex...

Wasn't this a prevalent rumor 2 years ago as well? I don't see this happening unless GW really, really wants to get rid of Allies or something. Sisters definitely have room for a full release.

I honestly don't get why so many are so freaked out because of this. I thought that everyone wanted WD to be more integral part of the hobby?

Some people seem to be afraid that the SoB (assuming this whole thing isn't just a practical joke) will be same as BA pdf was. Guess what, that was back in the 4th edition where all codices were toned down from 3rd E. Obviously the BA seemed stripped down version compared to the previous one because it was. It didn't necessarily have anything to do with it being pdf, CSM also changed radically in that edition.

I'm 100% sure that they are not going to publish 4th edition codex in the middle of 5th edition. Cruddace might not be everyone's favorite rules designer but at least he isn't afraid of options and 2 WD issues and a supporting PDF have more than enough space for a proper codex.

Change happens. If this speeds up the codex release schedule then that is obviously a good thing. If you end up with a bad book it won't take as long to fix it and people won't have to suffer from 2 edition old armies that might be get screwed because of new edition rules.

Stickmonkey > BoK

Stick gives specifics.
BoK is as reliable as a horoscope.

As an avid Sisters of Battle player, I have faith

Revarien wrote:Stickmonkey > BoK

Stick gives specifics.
BoK is as reliable as a horoscope.

As an avid Sisters of Battle player, I have faith

BoK gave us the rumors about 2-wound (with access to FNP) Terminators and S7 Rending Psycannons months before anyone else. Mind telling me a bit of Stickmonkey-unique info that panned out?

CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

Just imagine the size of those tits!

Darthslowe wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I can't wait to see the SOB Dread Knights...

Just imagine the size of those tits!

I know, right?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm both liking and not liking this news:

Liking:
Its always fun to see new rules come out for something.


Not liking:
I'm thinking they may not release a full fledge SoB codex.

Regarding BoKs GK rumors.. They were posted on this very forum before they were on that blog just people didnt give them much credit :p He got the info from the same place as the rest.. just later

bhsman wrote:
BoK gave us the rumors about 2-wound (with access to FNP) Terminators and S7 Rending Psycannons months before anyone else. Mind telling me a bit of Stickmonkey-unique info that panned out?

They also said that those terminators would all have 2+ invul... not the warding staff that gives ONE model a 2+

When someone throws stuff out as often as they do, some of it will pan out. Just like a horoscope.

As for "Stickmonkey-unique," I've seen the BoK dude rip the same stuff Stick posts but tries to make it his own by adding stuff... ***EDIT*** Hard core ninja'd by Kirasu***EDIT***

I'm not ripping on him for doing it: it certainly has garnered him a massive following quickly and been very nice for his website - kudos to him in that regard. I just check expectations at the door... as I do with most rumors. I do say though, Stick's posts are succinct and while they are general to an extent, he's not just adding stuff for flavor.

From as little posting and mostly lurking I do across the net, I'd say that stick has a better track record... not to mention he has less of an attitude about his rumors that I can't say the same for BoK.

Kirasu wrote:Regarding BoKs GK rumors.. They were posted on this very forum before they were on that blog just people didnt give them much credit :p He got the info from the same place as the rest.. just later

Sure it's not the other way around? Even then they provided rumors on a somewhat consistent basis that either backed up some sources or were unique; ie they were the first to point out that Warding Staves only worked in CC, not all the time, while everyone was flipping out over the playtest 'dex.

Good to see people still being bad about SoB Codex.

I gotta say i am not even remotely considering this to be true. Gw are done with white dwarf codexes and the like, and the sisters will get a proper release, if at all.
The half-hearted attempts at pitching armies through WD is a thing of the past. The company has moved on.

wyomingfox wrote:

Phazael wrote:No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

He also wrote the IG codex...

Yes, and for all of that codex's power, it is full of very stupid choices and bonehead moves. It is as internally inconsistent as the 'Nid codex, it just has the advantage of not being further neutered by a punitive FAQ.

If anyone has surfed the Black Library lately you may have noticed they have announced a new SoB novel coming not too far down the pike. And in my observation there does seem to often be a link between the novels and codex/product etc. releases.. Perhaps that puts one more tick mark on True side of this rumor (?). Shrug.

Considering the WD BA codex was 7 kinds of horrible, I fear for the SOB.

Which was really disappointing- I remember getting WD's when they were actually interesting- when new armies, new rules and all kinds of actual cool stuff was published.

Lets hope they step it up this time.

Well, the BA codex was written during a very different time in GW's methodology. Mainly their approach was focusing on streamlining and simplifying their product in response to the criticism that they've turned back on their promise of 3rd edition being a much simpler and more streamlined game (which it was, for a very brief time, before the crazy bloat of custom armies and chapters took hold) .

(okay, maybe not so different, these things come and go in cycles, I'm sure the Wardian bloat will eventually reach such epic proportions that the next batch of books will be back to blandsville)

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:If anyone has surfed the Black Library lately you may have noticed they have announced a new SoB novel coming not too far down the pike. And in my observation there does seem to often be a link between the novels and codex/product etc. releases.. Perhaps that puts one more tick mark on True side of this rumor (?). Shrug.

That's an interesting point.

It does seem strange that the site has gone down just after posting the rumour, maybe he was contact by GW legal and did it himself so he could ascertain exactly what content he needed to remove?

Aetherse wrote:I honestly don't get why so many are so freaked out because of this.

Because it would mean GW is giving us everything we don't want (loss of the armoury, loss of allies), and nothing we do want (new fluff, plastics).

Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:If anyone has surfed the Black Library lately you may have noticed they have announced a new SoB novel coming not too far down the pike. And in my observation there does seem to often be a link between the novels and codex/product etc. releases.. Perhaps that puts one more tick mark on True side of this rumor (?). Shrug.

No. That only suggests the Sisters are getting an update soon. It does not provide any evidence that it's going to be the lazy effort BoK suggests.

This is all sorts of fail. There's nothing inherently wrong with the codex. Releasing one without any way to reasonably collect the actual models if completely foolish.

There's literally 0% chance they release a SoB codex of any sort without doing something with the models, nobody is going to play it if they have to pay like $8 per infantry model.

Pacific wrote:It does seem strange that the site has gone down just after posting the rumour, maybe he was contact by GW legal and did it himself so he could ascertain exactly what content he needed to remove?

According to a different forum... ( Here: Bindi Baji posted it ) it's something else... what it was though, was not mentioned... so as far as validity goes, I can't be sure.

He probably just forgot to pay his bills.

BoK back online.

I don't play SoB, but I'll also agree that I would take the WD codex now, over having to wait years to get another full fledged update.

I guess I would too if I absolutely had to, but it doesn't make sense IMO.Two issues of WD cost almost as much a codex with a lot crap in between. No models? That would be insane. I'd rather wait an extra six months to get new plastic models and a good codex. A new WD codex isn't going to make the current models sell any faster unless the codex is so awesome as to destroy all other armies.

andrewm9 wrote:A new WD codex isn't going to make the current models sell any faster unless the codex is so awesome as to destroy all other armies.

...and includes lotto numbers so people will actually be willing to pay 50 pounds for 10 monopose metal models that are older than Google.

To be fair, they could do a temporary update to the rules that includes updates to pricing and the new style without a complete revamp in a WD. Basically C:WH with allies out and converting everything in the old 'dex to 5th Ed. (Maybe include an update to Zealots for 5th.)

That wouldn't be too bad (although I'd miss allies) and would tide me over until they finish the real codex.

My guess, if this is true, is that there have been further delays to the models and they are buying time.

withershadow wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Phazael wrote:No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

He also wrote the IG codex...

Yes, and for all of that codex's power, it is full of very stupid choices and bonehead moves. It is as internally inconsistent as the 'Nid codex, it just has the advantage of not being further neutered by a punitive FAQ.

This. Plus he actually likes and plays guard so he remembered to put competitive units in the book. His ability to balance costs is atrocious, at best. For as competitive as the current IG book is, you really only see less than 1/6th of it ever used.

pretre wrote:To be fair, they could do a temporary update to the rules that includes updates to pricing and the new style without a complete revamp in a WD. Basically C:WH with allies out and converting everything in the old 'dex to 5th Ed. (Maybe include an update to Zealots for 5th.)

That wouldn't be too bad (although I'd miss allies) and would tide me over until they finish the real codex.

My guess, if this is true, is that there have been further delays to the models and they are buying time.

To me its a waste of an effort (and an excuse to not give us a real update if it is true) and I have zero belief that this rumor is true. Sisters players should not want this as it likley means we won't get a real update for another 3 to 5 years IMO.

Phazael wrote:

withershadow wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Phazael wrote:No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

He also wrote the IG codex...

Yes, and for all of that codex's power, it is full of very stupid choices and bonehead moves. It is as internally inconsistent as the 'Nid codex, it just has the advantage of not being further neutered by a punitive FAQ.

This. Plus he actually likes and plays guard so he remembered to put competitive units in the book. His ability to balance costs is atrocious, at best. For as competitive as the current IG book is, you really only see less than 1/6th of it ever used.

Unlike every other book?

andrewm9 wrote:To me its a waste of an effort (and an excuse to not give us a real update if it is true) and I have zero belief that this rumor is true. Sisters players should not want this as it likley means we won't get a real update for another 3 to 5 years IMO.

To you. For me, as a sisters player, I would love a cost update. I believe that the delay is happening whether you get a WD dex or not, so why not get something out of the deal? I've waited this long for a full revamp, I can wait longer.

As well, this wouldn't be the first time I've played with a WD codex for sisters. Anyone who has been around for a while used the C: CA list and before that the Big Black Book list. In some ways, the C: CA is more of what I think of as Sisters (I still had my Reds then).

I think alot of people are getting in to a fuss just because the codex is a pdf and WD release. The fact that its spread between months implies to me a meaningful miniature release and not just a rerelease. I think people need to just consider this as wave 1, but with a physical codex released in "wave 2."

I think Cruddace deserves a little more credit as a new rules author. His first book, Imperial Guard, was received as too strong and his second book, Tyranids, looks like it was a push back against it (it also doesn't help that the two books he wrote exemplify either the extreme strengths and weaknesses of an edition that heavily favors vehicles). Tomb Kings, on the other hand, seems to be well-received as an 'update' to 8th edition rather than reinventing the wheel like a certain someone...

Even then Cruddace tends to write good fluff. Tau meeting Necrons for the first time in the Tyranid codex?

CT GAMER wrote:
"Bodice of St. Domina"

"master-crafted push-up bra"

etc.

As for the two characters: my bet is Jacobus and Kyrinov

So they are going the same way a tomb raider. I knew it. Increasing bust size with every issue just to 'push up' sales.

This is fantastic marketing genius.

Sounds plausible to me.

Especially if as already suggested its an excuse to drop all the Inquisition stuff as a pre-warning of what folks are going to expect in the proper codex, ala WoC.

If this rumor is true they should just cut out the middle man and squat the army or just leave the 3rd edition codex as official until the end of time since it's clear they don't care about the continued life of the Sisters of Battle line. Little to no new models and a crappy release where you have no book in stores to sell means no one will pick up the army to play. Also why break up the "release" into two issues? So I can use half the army for a month until I get the rest? A hold over is stupid as well since it's not like Sisters players (and Dark Eldar and Necrons) haven't waited almost 10 years for an updated codex. Why does it need a "get you by" list RIGHT NOW?

SoB had a crappy White Dwarf list and barebones re-release of models before back when 3rd edition came out and no one noticed at all. It's a huge waste of time. This rumor is ridiculous but I don't have enough faith in the company to think they won't do something this monumentally terrible.

Also Cruddace blows and I really hope he's not working on this "book". Tomb Kings is lame as hell.

The resin thing is total BS though which is why I don't really think this has any real basis as truth hopefully.

bhsman wrote:I think Cruddace deserves a little more credit as a new rules author. His first book, Imperial Guard, was received as too strong and his second book, Tyranids, looks like it was a push back against it (it also doesn't help that the two books he wrote exemplify either the extreme strengths and weaknesses of an edition that heavily favors vehicles). Tomb Kings, on the other hand, seems to be well-received as an 'update' to 8th edition rather than reinventing the wheel like a certain someone...

Even then Cruddace tends to write good fluff. Tau meeting Necrons for the first time in the Tyranid codex?

Actually, Tomb Kings are not overly well received from what I can tell, at least not by people that actually played Tomb Kings. He stripped away a lot of their unique identity (such as their funky magic), and made them like everybody else. There are already a few units people are starting to focus on to the exclusion of all else. Their popularity these days stems mainly from the super awesome models.

I'm not sure if Guard are "too strong". Honestly the whole Leafblower thing was overblown, no pun intended, especially considering the original list was garbage and just lucked out in having idiot opponents. Look at the recent tournament results, 90% of the top 10 are still power armor armies, and Space Wolves rule the roost. The codex itself has a lot of weak-spots, such as a horrendous elites section except for Marbo and the situational PBS, and overpriced special characters (the ogre bodyguard is literally the most overcosted model in the whole damn game).

As for this "pushback" effect, it makes me worry about the rumored Kelly-written Sisters of Battle codex. His Space Wolves were atrociously balanced and super powerful (hurray for best point-for-point HQ, elites, troops and heavy support in the game! they'd have the most point-effective fast attack too, if vendettas didn't exist). Considering how there were around 50 armies at Adepticon that "counted as" Space Wolves and like 3 SW players in the top 5, they'll probably try to "balance" the Sisters codex by making it cruddy.

Ixquic wrote:If this rumor is true they should just cut out the middle man and squat the army or just leave the 3rd edition codex as official until the end of time since it's clear they don't care about the continued life of the Sisters of Battle line. Little to no new models and a crappy release where you have no book in stores to sell means no one will pick up the army to play. Also why break up the "release" into two issues? So I can use half the army for a month until I get the rest? A hold over is stupid as well since it's not like Sisters players (and Dark Eldar and Necrons) haven't waited almost 10 years for an updated codex. Why does it need a "get you by" list RIGHT NOW?

Wow. Tell us how you really feel?

SoB had a crappy White Dwarf list and barebones re-release of models before back when 3rd edition came out and no one noticed at all. It's a huge waste of time. This rumor is ridiculous but I don't have enough faith in the company to think they won't do something this monumentally terrible.

The Codex: Chapter Approved list was actually pretty good. People noticed because it made it a viable army and not just a black book army.

Also Cruddace blows and I really hope he's not working on this "book". Tomb Kings is lame as hell.

The resin thing is total BS though which is why I don't really think this has any real basis as truth hopefully.

I dub thee, Captain Positivity!

What is there to be positive about? The only bright side to this rumor is the thought that MAYBE this is a stop gap until a real book comes out but that's just a wish and not indicated by the rumor at all. I don't know how anyone can be excited by a bone being thrown in the form of a crappy army list. The WoC stand by was lame and about as barebones as you could get; it was designed simply to let people use models until the real book came out. If you think that an army GW doesn't feel needs new models, a place in store shelves or even an actual book will result in anything but the most basic boring army you are deluded. I don't have a lot of faith in the guy that took Tomb Kings and removed the most iconic part of the army (its magic system) to make a Sisters army list provided for "free" that is interesting.

The way to feel positive about this rumor is to hope it has no validity.

withershadow wrote:Actually, Tomb Kings are not overly well received from what I can tell, at least not by people that actually played Tomb Kings. He stripped away a lot of their unique identity (such as their funky magic), and made them like everybody else. There are already a few units people are starting to focus on to the exclusion of all else. Their popularity these days stems mainly from the super awesome models.

Maybe, I was basing that on the reactions of two long-time TK players at my store - one who goes more for the rules and fluff and vice versa for the other. That and a poll thread in the Dakka Fantasy General Discussion subforum where a large majority of the responses were positive. Losing the magic system might be a loss, but I don't think it brings the rest of the book down.

Ixquic wrote:
The way to feel positive about this rumor is to hope it has no validity.

Bingo. Because, just like the True Scale Chaos Marines making an appearance in the next starter set, this one is also bogus.

ceorron wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:
"Bodice of St. Domina"

"master-crafted push-up bra"

etc.

As for the two characters: my bet is Jacobus and Kyrinov

So they are going the same way a tomb raider. I knew it. Increasing bust size with every issue just to 'push up' sales.

This is fantastic marketing genius.

If we follow this chart we should see some cleavage on the new Sister models, by the time they get their 6th codex update they should be naked Bah, that's in like 60years from now, I wont be alive by then :(

MadCowCrazy wrote: *everything*

MadCowCrazy... I love your posts on Heresy... I wish you'd post here more often. Lol.

Now that I think of it, this was a rumor a while ago... I'll have to research a bit where I first heard of this popping up.

I just don't see a White Dwarf list happening.
Anyway, it isn't needed. Sister work suprisingly fine. Demon Hunters were always the poor sods that couldn't crack a tank for the love of the Emperor. Witch Hunters works fine. The Act of Faith mechanic is badly designed and unnecessary complicated, but it still works. The problem is the price. They charge ridiculous amounts for a SINGLE unit. A single 10 (wo)man unit comes at, what, twice or thrice the price of a tactical marine box? And they cost 11 points a pop.
A White Dwarf codex would accomplish nothing but disgruntling the remaining WH players.

Mebbie it's me, but I thought somebody official said there would be no more WD codex released after the Blood Angels one.

GWs policy changes every few weeks, so that's for that.

Korraz wrote:I just don't see a White Dwarf list happening.
Anyway, it isn't needed. Sister work suprisingly fine. Demon Hunters were always the poor sods that couldn't crack a tank for the love of the Emperor. Witch Hunters works fine. The Act of Faith mechanic is badly designed and unnecessary complicated, but it still works. The problem is the price. They charge ridiculous amounts for a SINGLE unit. A single 10 (wo)man unit comes at, what, twice or thrice the price of a tactical marine box? And they cost 11 points a pop.
A White Dwarf codex would accomplish nothing but disgruntling the remaining WH players.

If they do it, it's because they need to remove the Inquisition faction since you have two books out with two versions of the same Special Character and Assassins, etc. Same thing with giving Warriors of Chaos a get-you-by book in White Dwarf after Chaos Daemons were released.

HungryTaz wrote:Mebbie it's me, but I thought somebody official said there would be no more WD codex released after the Blood Angels one.

I don't recall anything of the sort, but they did release the aforementioned WoC book through White Dwarf because of conflicting units across two books. Similar situation here.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

ceorron wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:
"Bodice of St. Domina"

"master-crafted push-up bra"

etc.

As for the two characters: my bet is Jacobus and Kyrinov

So they are going the same way a tomb raider. I knew it. Increasing bust size with every issue just to 'push up' sales.

This is fantastic marketing genius.

If we follow this chart we should see some cleavage on the new Sister models, by the time they get their 6th codex update they should be naked Bah, that's in like 60years from now, I wont be alive by then :(

I see, I see MadCowCrazy.

So following the trend and time line you have identified we could be looking at something like this when we see the new models.



Well if thats the case the new models can't get here soon enough.

This maybe hard to pass with some but will likely mean a 4+ save from the new edition.

As far as I know there's no way to get two Karamazovs in the same army and it's not anyone is using either one anyway.

bleh. As a Sisters player I think Sisters should get a full codex. They really don't need a band aid. Old codex is surprisingly competitive just ask Rich or Simon.

That is interesting about the development of Sophitia from Soul Blade to Soul Calibur 4 and the skimpier outfit with bigger breasts. Thing is guys like it and it sells games even if its unrealistic.

Ixquic wrote:As far as I know there's no way to get two Karamazovs in the same army and it's not anyone is using either one anyway.

Are you on the right thread?

GK are a Space Marine Variant, hence they can take C:WH allies per C:WH ally rules.

It was my understanding that the ally rules were now by opponent's permission only?

withershadow wrote:It was my understanding that the ally rules were now by opponent's permission only?

Nope.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=11200008a

"The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't: you should feel free to continue to use whatever resources you have available to play your games with; the PDF does not overrule or invalidate the printed Codex book."

Kanluwen wrote:

Phazael wrote:

withershadow wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Phazael wrote:No Cruddace. Please. I already have 5k of Nids sitting on the shelves in my garage. I don't want to have my wife's decade old 5k of sisters keeping them company up there.

He also wrote the IG codex...

Yes, and for all of that codex's power, it is full of very stupid choices and bonehead moves. It is as internally inconsistent as the 'Nid codex, it just has the advantage of not being further neutered by a punitive FAQ.

This. Plus he actually likes and plays guard so he remembered to put competitive units in the book. His ability to balance costs is atrocious, at best. For as competitive as the current IG book is, you really only see less than 1/6th of it ever used.

Unlike every other book?

Using rescent books:

Orks- Tankbustas and Flash Gitz are the only units I have not seen on at least a semi-regular basis in various ork lists.
C:CM- Scout Speeders, Scout Bikes, Whirlwinds, and Honor Guard are the only units I have not seen used.
BA- Death Company Dreads and vanilla LRs? I think I have seen just about every other unit in this book turn up in tournament armies.
Cheeze Wolves- Venerable Dreads and... well thats about it. Everything else gets used.
Dark Eldar- Kind of early, but the Talos, Mandrakes, and Incubi are the only things I have not seen turn up at tourney tables.

Now over in the Crudiverse:

IG- Tech Priests, the entire Elites Section, Conscripts, Penal Legion, both flavors of Sentinal, all the artilery outside of the Manticore and Medusa, most of the russes, the Deathstrike Missile, nearly all of the special characters... and this was the competitive book he wrote...
Nids- Pyrovores, Lictors, Ripper Swarms, Shrikes, Spore Pods (post FAQ), Warriors (post FAQ), Biovores, Canifex, Harpies, and nearly every special character, outside of Swarmlord. For those keeping score, thats most of the book and most of the newly introduced units. In fact, only the Hive Guard and Tervigons have gotten any major play, out of the newer additions.

So, you can see why some of us might be concerned about him getting the book.

To be fair, nearly half of the stuff in the TK book will actually be used, but its certainly no Lizardmen book where everything is viable.

Phazael wrote:IG- Tech Priests, the entire Elites Section, Conscripts, Penal Legion, both flavors of Sentinal, all the artilery outside of the Manticore and Medusa, most of the russes, the Deathstrike Missile, nearly all of the special characters... and this was the competitive book he wrote...

You can add Lord Commissars and Primaris Psykers as barely acceptable options (PP more so than the LC), and the Medusa actually kind of sucks. AV12 open topped direct fire weapon, hurray. The hellhound variants are also overpriced, especially when compared to the Vendetta. And no one uses Rough Riders outside of fun lists (it's worth mentioning they are probably the only unit in the game who have a character that DETRACTS from the unit while costing extra points).

No Cruddace ever again please.

He could swing hard towards cheese on this one, especially after Tyranids. Tyranids was so poorly received, it seems like they just gave up on making any more Tyranid models. (I keed. Mostly.)

Cruddace being on the job is not my main concern. I'd still buy and play them even if they were utter gak (RULESWISE, I mean). There's a more important problem: I'm not enthused AT ALL about seeing my beloved Sororitas in the pages of WD as anything but a full release. Even if there are plans to do a full book what does putting out a tempdex say about the release schedule?

withershadow wrote:

Phazael wrote:IG- Tech Priests, the entire Elites Section, Conscripts, Penal Legion, both flavors of Sentinal, all the artilery outside of the Manticore and Medusa, most of the russes, the Deathstrike Missile, nearly all of the special characters... and this was the competitive book he wrote...

You can add Lord Commissars and Primaris Psykers as barely acceptable options (PP more so than the LC), and the Medusa actually kind of sucks. AV12 open topped direct fire weapon, hurray. The hellhound variants are also overpriced, especially when compared to the Vendetta. And no one uses Rough Riders outside of fun lists (it's worth mentioning they are probably the only unit in the game who have a character that DETRACTS from the unit while costing extra points).

No Cruddace ever again please.

Wow. I wasn't going to comment on Phazael's post, but this is just over the top. Just because you don't like or use it doesn't meant that it is a bad/poor choice.

The other half of this is that it is opinion. Just because P hasn't seen something locally, doesn't mean it isn't used competitively. DC dreads aren't competitive but BA tac squads are? He mentioned Ven Dreads as unsuccessful for SW but not Blood Claws. Yeah, this entire list is just personal experience and taste, not actual competitiveness.

You're right about personal experiences, but mine more or less jive with his.

Blood Claws can be good if building a deathstar. They just can't compete with Grey Hunters when building basic squads. But take 14 of them with a Chaplain in a Land Raider? Money.

Most successful tournament/'ard boyz IG lists I've seen run the following things: CCS in chimera, vets in chimera, vendettas, manticores, hydras. The lower the points costs, the more each IG army comes down to this basic build.

After these basic ingredients, more esoteric flavors include powerblobs, flamer/demo PCS/SWS, battle tanks, and basilisks. Psykers are actually surprisingly uncommon. All the anti-psyker tech out there makes them too unreliable unless fielded in pairs (or trios), so you either build your army around them, or don't include them at all.

Out of the special characters, Creed, Straken and Al'Raheem show up once you crest 2000 points.

It would actually be interesting to poll what people see in their various playgroups and the tournaments they attend. But that's probably meant for a different thread.



More on topic, I don't get the hate on the Sisters models. I mean, yes, they are quite old so don't provide tons of customization, and their costs have become exorbitant (can you even buy the metals from GW anymore?). But for all their age, they are some of Jes Goodwin's best work. Properly painted, Sisters of Battle can stand up to any of the modern armies (okay, except perhaps Dark Eldar, those models are badass... again Jes Goodwin's work).

They're quite nice, yes. But try painting thirty or so of them and you'll get the idea.

Take a gander at lists from Adepticon and Nova if you want a good barameter of whats taken all over the country at the competitive levels. What I am seeing locally in LA pretty much matches those events, as well.

Bottom line, Cruddace is the army killer. Even if half the stuff that I cited (and I missed a lot relating to IG) was used with some frequency _AND_ double what I cited in the other modern books was never touched, its still a rediculous ratio of wheat to chaff in Cruddace's work, compared to other books.

The current Sisters book has a better crap to gold ratio, even. I think outside of Repentia (which I happen to like at 2k, but ignore anecdotals), the Inquisitors, Death Cult Assasins, and _maybe_ the retributors, every unit in that book sees some use. And thats with a book that is how old exactly? I do not look forward to what Cruddace would do with this army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least with Matt Ward's books, its generally only a couple of units that wind up riding the pine.

More then likely they will get a placeholder codex like the BA did. Then they can drag out the release of the range well up into next year.

We've already seen the sprues for the basic troops, so it's not like this guy is telling us anything new. Best case, we see them byt he end of the year. Worst case, its just another army that will be Squatted.

They keep fiddling while the 40K universe burns...

pretre wrote:

Ixquic wrote:As far as I know there's no way to get two Karamazovs in the same army and it's not anyone is using either one anyway.

Are you on the right thread?

GK are a Space Marine Variant, hence they can take C:WH allies per C:WH ally rules.

It also says you can only have one Karamazov per army.

kronk wrote:I'm not buying this rumor. Coming out with a codex and new models for Grey knights and Dark Eldar appeared to sell very well and revamped interest in older armies.

I don't think they'll move away from a business model that puts fast cash in their hands.

Sure they would. See tyranid codex for the non-existant essential buys of terigons, and lesser extent the HS gun beast. How long has it been now and still nothing?

Phazael wrote:
Orks- Tankbustas and Flash Gitz are the only units I have not seen on at least a semi-regular basis in various ork lists.
C:CM- Scout Speeders, Scout Bikes, Whirlwinds, and Honor Guard are the only units I have not seen used.
BA- Death Company Dreads and vanilla LRs? I think I have seen just about every other unit in this book turn up in tournament armies.
Cheeze Wolves- Venerable Dreads and... well thats about it. Everything else gets used.
Dark Eldar- Kind of early, but the Talos, Mandrakes, and Incubi are the only things I have not seen turn up at tourney tables.

Orks: Looted Wagons, Weirdboyz, not too many people use Storm Boyz either.
Space Marines: Techmarines, Legion of the Damned...but yeah, this is probably one of the more balanced books.
BA: Dunno, except HQ's are kind of a mess...some choices are just way too good (Mephiston...) and are included in every list
SW: Bloodclaws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws, Fenris wolves

What is common with SW, BA and IG is that some of the choices are simply way too good to the extent they are included to nearly every list. Most of the units you listed for IG aren't actually that bad, it's just that there is always one no-brainer choice to compete for the slot. Why would anyone take Sentinels when they can take hugely awesome Vendettas? This is of course not optimal balance situation, but it IS better than some truly unbalanced books, where some choices are simply complete crap (Tau...).

Ixquic wrote:

Ixquic wrote:As far as I know there's no way to get two Karamazovs in the same army and it's not anyone is using either one anyway.

It also says you can only have one Karamazov per army.

We are talking about a special named character here. Of course there is only one per army.
Otherwise we would see a Mephiston spam list

Ixquic: Actually the positive thing is that this is probably just BoK pulling something out of their backside.

Grot 6 wrote:We've already seen the sprues for the basic troops

Have "we"? Where?

One of these days I'm going to do a Sisters of Battle army. I just think they look cool. I already own a ton of the metal figs I got in a trade awhile back, but no tanks. I'd have to buy all the Rhinos and such and that would be an annoying expense.

Also, This Comic makes me want to play them more as well.

Melissia wrote:Ixquic: Actually the positive thing is that this is probably just BoK pulling something out of their backside.

Nicely done

Slinky wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:We've already seen the sprues for the basic troops

Have "we"? Where?

My exact thoughts. WHERE?

Also re BoK - they talking out they azz!

A PDF sounds about right for the battlewomen. There is more $$$ to be made for GW elsewhere.

I called this months ago, the simple fact is GW wants the Witchhunters allies rules out but are in no great hurry to put out new SoB models.

Yeah a more charitable way to look at is they want the models to be just right, but let's face it if they were priority GW would have them out by now.

My bet is PDF this fall, codex and models next summer, then it's instantly out of date with 6th edition next fall. Keeping with the Sister's proud tradition of being the last codex in 2nd and 3rd edition.

So... we know that Jes Goodwin has been speaking about new plastic sisters sculpts (which has been reported by other sources) so here's my point of view: GW releasing new models and only a pdf or WD codex???

Bt!!!

Who could possibly trust that they've invested in the developpement and production of models (which is the most expensive part of an army production) and are not willing to sell real codexes (while we know how cheap is the book production compared to the rest of the army). Its GW we're talking about!

Edit:
K_K what would be the point of a pdf release 6 month before a codex release?

The thing is if their plan was to release a PDF to get rid of the allies rule, why didn't they just do that when they put the old 3rd ed codex online instead of specifically saying you could use your old book if you wanted to? The last time they did a placeholder book it was the Warriors of Chaos book and it was incredibly bare bones. Just basic unit stuff and like 5 magic items. There's no reason they couldn't have been pumped out a Sisters of Battle version in like an afternoon when they removed the codex from shelves so why release this now almost a year later? The problem everyone bitched about with the allies rules was the Mystic anyway and he's been nerfed into oblivion.

TBD wrote:A PDF sounds about right for the battlewomen. There is more $$$ to be made for GW elsewhere.

Nice we are at the point in every Sisters thread where people claim an army that was unsupported for a decade with no new models, almost nothing in any expansion and no presence in the official narrative outside of Fantasy Flight RPGs is shockingly unpopular so it should be removed in favor of stuff that's already established (more Marines/stuff they play).

Hyenajoe wrote:
K_K what would be the point of a pdf release 6 month before a codex release?

In the case of WoC the old book included a large amount of stuff that was suddenly their own separate armies (demons and beastmen). In order to fix this problem they made a quick list that would make sure people could still play their old army, but wouldn't be buying up models they wouldn't be able to use when the updated Warriors book was released. That was not a bad strategy and I appreciated the honestly (they could have just left the book hanging and screwed new players that bought demon models they would no longer include in their lists).

In the case of Sisters, unless this new codex is radically different I just don't see the point of a stand by list. Allies are being removed which is a given, but they aren't an integral part of the army, just a page. It's something easily removed (and was from the online PDF). I highly doubt they are removing any of the current options from the Sisters army since most are very basic so releasing a special White Dwarf army list when the 3rd edition codex exists and will probably be mostly the same in terms of which models can be used doesn't make sense.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I called this months ago, the simple fact is GW wants the Witchhunters allies rules out but are in no great hurry to put out new SoB models.

Yeah a more charitable way to look at is they want the models to be just right, but let's face it if they were priority GW would have them out by now.

My bet is PDF this fall, codex and models next summer, then it's instantly out of date with 6th edition next fall. Keeping with the Sister's proud tradition of being the last codex in 2nd and 3rd edition.

It may be that the reason for delay is so the Codex and models can be released alongside 6th and not be instantly out of date. It is likely that 40K will switch to hardback once 6th comes around. GW might be waiting so that the Sisters get their hardback book done and out of the way knowing that they won't be redone anytime soon.

Incidentally KK, can we have a preview of Codex Girl Marines?

Flashman wrote:
It may be that the reason for delay is so the Codex and models can be released alongside 6th and not be instantly out of date. It is likely that 40K will switch to hardback once 6th comes around. GW might be waiting so that the Sisters get their hardback book done and out of the way knowing that they won't be redone anytime soon.

Incidentally KK, can we have a preview of Codex Girl Marines?

How can there be a delay as no codex has been announced. i seriously doubt we will get a PDF or WD codex and no sane Sisters player should want one as it would likely mean that we won't see a real codex for years. It would be silly to publish one only to relase one in 6 months to a year. Such a codex will not sell any current models unless the codex is so awesome as to defy description. To begin selling Sisters they need new plastics and plenty of them like the Dark Eldar got. If they look that good and the codex is decent enough I'm sure they will sell very nicely.

Absent plastic I may be the only one looking forward to resin, for easier converting of these guys vs. metal.

I thought the whole resin thing was determined to be BS?

Plastic isn't gonna be absent, though. Most Sisters models use the same basic model anyway, and they're making a plastic version of that (as has been noted many times).

I wouldn't mind resin instead of metal for special characters and other non-plastic bits though. It'd be a pain to clean at first, but it's better than dealing with metal.

We ain't gettin' a PDF codex. That was just BoK pulling something out of their arse.

A white dwarf codex makes absolutely no sense when instead they could simply update the FAQ to reflect the new point costs until the next codex.

Heck I would be happy to just see the rhino point cost adjusted as well as the repressor, with forge-world rules, become available through a FAQ.

The current sister codex is decent, more units would be fun, but the codex is still competitive in it's current state. Having adjusted point cost would put us on par with most of the 5th edition codex.

withershadow wrote:

bhsman wrote:Competitive tournament lists are a terrible barometer of what units are used, hope this helps.

Um, no?

I think you will find that the hobby is much larger than the very vocal internet 'competive' crowd espouses. Not to mention that a lot of 'terrible' units are used by folks who are very successful. Check out a lot of the wins by folks with Chaos armies who use unusual choices that most folks list as horrible or underpowered.

Internet wisdom is neither rarely wise in the real world.

couldnt agree more with pretre on that one!

pretre wrote:

withershadow wrote:

bhsman wrote:Competitive tournament lists are a terrible barometer of what units are used, hope this helps.

Um, no?

I think you will find that the hobby is much larger than the very vocal internet 'competive' crowd espouses. Not to mention that a lot of 'terrible' units are used by folks who are very successful. Check out a lot of the wins by folks with Chaos armies who use unusual choices that most folks list as horrible or underpowered.

Internet wisdom is neither rarely wise in the real world.

Except, you are largely wrong. The stuff that gets tournament use vastly outsells the hobby models. If the rules were not important, then everyone would just model whatever they wanted and convert any old VDR thing they desired. There are people who buy everything (even I own a Pyrovore, Shining Spears, and Scout Sentinals), but by and large its the good stuff that moves off the shelves. Take a little count of how many Razorbacks and Hive Guard move off the shelves at the gaming store, versus the Honor Guard and Pyrovores, and you will clearly see this in real world practice.

Phazael wrote:Except, you are largely wrong. The stuff that gets tournament use vastly outsells the hobby models. If the rules were not important, then everyone would just model whatever they wanted and convert any old VDR thing they desired. There are people who buy everything (even I own a Pyrovore, Shining Spears, and Scout Sentinals), but by and large its the good stuff that moves off the shelves. Take a little count of how many Razorbacks and Hive Guard move off the shelves at the gaming store, versus the Honor Guard and Pyrovores, and you will clearly see this in real world practice.

Want to back this up with some sales numbers or some other, even if limited, proof of my wrongness? Or are we just going to go with 'I think more Razorbacks and Hive Guard sell.'?

I always figured GW stayed in business selling to people who bought whatever, never bothered to paint or assemble it, and then kept doing that.

Manchu wrote:I always figured GW stayed in business selling to people who bought whatever, never bothered to paint or assemble it, and then kept doing that.

Not sure if you're being serious, but I imagine there is a fair amount of that. I wonder if anyone has studied it at all. A lot of kids buy stuff and never put it together or put it together poorly and go pew pew a lot. (My brother did this when he was 12-14.) Not to mention the addicts who have shelves of NIB product they haven't gotten around to painting/assembling.

lol

Not to mention the addicts who have shelves of NIB product they haven't gotten around to painting/assembling.

That applies to me and virtually every hobby "vet" that I know. And it isn't for lack of trying to get to it. We're all working on something all the time, but when you're excited about working on projects you're also excited about acquiring more, especially with so many exciting new releases the past few years, so the pile never gets smaller.

Yeah, I was referring to myself.

Manchu wrote:Yeah, I was referring to myself.

Well, the good news is that you have taken the first step in admitting that you have a problem.

I think step 2 is realizing that the Emperor protects. The problems is that steps 3 - 12 all involve buying more models . . .

We need a better 12 step program.

At least it isn't M30+... Step 1 is admit you have a problem. Step 2 is exterminatus.

Oy, that's a bummer. I thought someone was talking about how the viels and stuff looked so great, and that the sleeves were causing problems or something...

I could care less about the codex, as long as the models are good, but if there's no models, there's no nothing

Also, why would GW do that when the sisters just got a new book?

Samus_aran115 wrote:Also, why would GW do that when the sisters just got a new book?

Come again?

Samus_aran115 wrote:Oy, that's a bummer. I thought someone was talking about how the viels and stuff looked so great, and that the sleeves were causing problems or something...

They were. The guess is that they are still causing problems and there is a delay.

Also, why would GW do that when the sisters just got a new book?

Sisters haven't gotten a new book since C: WH.

Flashman wrote:
It may be that the reason for delay is so the Codex and models can be released alongside 6th and not be instantly out of date. It is likely that 40K will switch to hardback once 6th comes around. GW might be waiting so that the Sisters get their hardback book done and out of the way knowing that they won't be redone anytime soon.

Yes but the SoBs have always gotten a half-assed to quarter-assed release. They were the last of the 2nd edition codexes and even then it was an 'allies' book, not a full army. Then they got 2 Chapter Approved lists in 3rd edition then and an instantly out of date codex with almost no plastics. And nothing since 2004.

It's a catch 22. With such shoddy support their sales must be low. With low sales it's hard to convince management to put time and money into developing them, not while Codex Black Space Marines is a possibility.

Obviously there are people in the studio who like them and are working on them but I doubt they are allowed to make it their first priority.

So yeah, I think we'll get a PDF and the full codex and plastics will be kicked further down the road.

Incidentally KK, can we have a preview of Codex Girl Marines?

Ask and you shall receive...



It was my sig a while back. The Shiny Space Marines are getting a bit old, who next?

Tau Crisis Suits as Anime Space Marines? Failing that, Space Sharks.

haha! Great KK, love the Girl Space Marines one, genius. One of your best IMHO.

I'm feeling Blood Angels could be due as they're dangerously close to becoming GW's new poster boys.

This thread has been purged off quite a bit off-topic conversation and has been re-opened because it is a topic that many people are interested in and would like to participate in a discussion about.

With that said, please refrain from hyperbole as much as you can (I know, its the internet, but please try!). If you don't like the idea of a certain games designer writing something, that's fine. If you don't like the idea of a stop-gap army list, that's fine. And if you don't like someone else's opinion on these things, that's fine as well.

But please remember to remain polite and friendly in your discussions at all times. For god's sake, this is a hobby revolving around TOY SOLDIERS.


With that said, carry on...

Kirasu wrote:Seems plausible that SoB would get a rules-only dex in white dwarf. Theyre obviously one of the least popular army given the lack of attention over the past decade

If i were a sob player I would love any update even if you dont get all new fluff to read (is that really a loss?)

Although I dont think they'd get a 6th ed book.. That may be contingent on the popularity of the minidex

Least popular army?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Have you ever seen anything cooler than 'nuns with guns'.

I cant see why GW would not make a new codex for SoB. Due to the fact that they have not been redone for like EVER it would be like a whole new army being released with not that much work being needed to be done. They could just use some of the current sculpts as a base turn them to plastic and update a few of the rules. Plus with the new grey knights it would be a good time to do them about this time next year.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Not to mention the addicts who have shelves of NIB product they haven't gotten around to painting/assembling.

That applies to me and virtually every hobby "vet" that I know. And it isn't for lack of trying to get to it. We're all working on something all the time, but when you're excited about working on projects you're also excited about acquiring more, especially with so many exciting new releases the past few years, so the pile never gets smaller.

And thats a bad thing... how?

I don't find this possibility to be either surprising or a problem.

It totally fits in line with the last White Dwarf army list (Blood Angels) that was published because at the time the similarities between the Blood Angels and Dark Angles lists meant that much of the work of re-designing the army list for Blood Angels was completed when Jervis wrote the Dark Angels codex.

Similarly, much of what will be in the Sisters Codex has been done with the Grey Knights. All the Inquisitor, Henchmen & Assassin rules should be exactly the same, as will the Inquisitorial special characters, one would assume. So it only makes sense to go ahead and put out a stop-gap list in White Dwarf while the miniature line is being worked on, if for no other reason than not to have two wildly different versions of Assassins running around the game.

In no way can I possibly see this as a method to 'squat' the army. GW has publicly said that they're not 'squatting' any more full armies, and since they've made that announcement, they certainly haven't made any moves to indicate that this has changed. All the army lists that have been published in WD in recent years (Warriors of Chaos & Blood Angels) have gotten full books later, and there's no reason to assume that this won't be the same scenario...and if those examples hold true, there's no reason to assume that the final army list won't be fairly different from what is put out in White Dwarf.


Finally, as for the idea that GW may be 'crapping' on Sisters and instead going with the cash cow of Black Templars, one important thing to remember is that there is very little model development time required to refresh the Black Templars. They are a SM army with a few doo-dads added on, and that means only a small amount of work has to be done. The sisters, on the other hand, will require a much larger amount of new models to bring their line into the current realm of mainly plastics, and that means it will take, much, much longer to complete.

Hell, they worked on Dark Eldar models for about 3 years, if that gives you any indication of how long these things can take when you're talking about redoing most of the line. So even if they're working on both the Black Templars AND the Sisters at the same time (which they probably are) the Black Templars would still make sense to release first simply because they can finish them more quickly.

Enough of that sensible talk, Yakface! Back to Space Marines with boobies!

It will take them more work and time to complete Sisters than it did Dark Eldar for that matter.

However, I still don't see this as anything approaching probable. GW has a long history of giving us rules with no models and telling us to wing it, then releasing the model later when they're finished with it.

ceorron wrote:

I see, I see MadCowCrazy.

So following the trend and time line you have identified we could be looking at something like this when we see the new models.



Well if thats the case the new models can't get here soon enough.

This maybe hard to pass with some but will likely mean a 4+ save from the new edition.

Acctualy by the female armor rule that less is more that would still be a 3+ save but with a 6++ invulnerable.

Melissia wrote:It will take them more work and time to complete Sisters than it did Dark Eldar for that matter.

However, I still don't see this as anything approaching probable. GW has a long history of giving us rules with no models and telling us to wing it, then releasing the model later when they're finished with it.

I'm not exactly sure how you come to the conclusion that it would take GW longer to complete Sisters than Dark Eldar, given that the DE line was completely jettisoned, whereas with the Sisters codex there are several models that are already used in the Grey Knights codex (assassins, henchmen, inquisitors) & there are a few plastic kits that don't need to be redone (the Rhino & Immolator). That alone means it shouldn't take them quite as long as it took them to do DE.

And what don't you think is probable? You think having a WD stop-gap army list for sisters isn't probable? As I explained above, it completely fits into the same situation they had with Blood Angels/Dark Angels, so why isn't it probable?

yakface wrote:

Melissia wrote:It will take them more work and time to complete Sisters than it did Dark Eldar for that matter.

However, I still don't see this as anything approaching probable. GW has a long history of giving us rules with no models and telling us to wing it, then releasing the model later when they're finished with it.

I'm not exactly sure how you come to the conclusion that it would take GW longer to complete Sisters than Dark Eldar, given that the DE line was completely jettisoned, whereas with the Sisters codex there are several models that are already used in the Grey Knights codex (assassins, henchmen, inquisitors) & there are a few plastic kits that don't need to be redone (the Rhino & Immolator). That alone means it shouldn't take them quite as long as it took them to do DE.

And what don't you think is probable? You think having a WD stop-gap army list for sisters isn't probable? As I explained above, it completely fits into the same situation they had with Blood Angels/Dark Angels, so why isn't it probable?

Well, there's the whole thing with big "White Dwarf articles" being unmitigated miserable failures. See: "Spearhead" and "Blood Angels Rhino's don't have door, lol."

Melissia wrote:It will take them more work and time to complete Sisters than it did Dark Eldar for that matter.

How exactly? That doesn't make a lick of sense. As Yak said, the DE were a complete redesign from the ground up, with every existing model (and a lot of the background material) thrown away to start anew. Re-doing Sisters isn't anywhere as near as complex as that. They'll get, what, a 10-Sister main box, a 5-Sister Seraphim box, a plastic Penitent Engine, a few special characters and then some more plastics in wave two.

They're a simple fix, not as simple as Black Templars, but certainly nothing in line with the DE.

Figure Exorcists, Immolators and Repentia are candidates for plastic too. And you know there's going to be a bunch of new stuff with their current design approach.

They may not be a DE-level overhaul, but I wouldn't call them a quick fix and can believe they'd want to buy themselves some time to focus on 6th ed, the inevitable new SM codex, CSMs, etc.

Worglock wrote:

Well, there's the whole thing with big "White Dwarf articles" being unmitigated miserable failures. See: "Spearhead" and "Blood Angels Rhino's don't have door, lol."

The question wasn't whether or not it is a good thing, but whether or not it is probable. It seems highly probable to me because it matches similar patterns that GW has done in recent years in similar situations.

As for whether or not something is a 'failure' what exactly determines that? Is Spearhead a failure because your gaming group don't ever play Spearhead games? Exactly what would have been a success for Spearhead? It is an expansion that gives you a different way to play basic 40K. If you're looking for that, then you use it, if you're not looking for that then you don't use it.

I've often marveled at people's attitudes when it comes to expansions. Somehow if they aren't consistently covered in White Dwarf (?) then it means that GW have 'dropped' the expansion? What does that mean? An expansion is an expansion. You use it or you don't. Certainly GW releasing new spearhead formations can help keep people potentially interested in playing that expansion, but at the same time it is entirely possible for an expansion to be essentially 'perfect' with only a single release. Not everything needs continual updates of additional material. Planetstrike works perfectly well as-is if you want to play a planetstrike themed game. Planetary Empires works perfectly fine if you want to play campaigns. There really is no need to continually add things onto expansions because they're already an expansion to an existing game.

So even though I have never played a game of Spearhead, I don't consider it a 'failure' at all. I look forward to playing a game at some point when I'm looking for a little change of pace.

And as for the Blood Angels White Dwarf article being a 'failure', I think any failings with it were more tied to the issue of the Dark Angels codex rather than it being published in WD. It was still a big step forward from the old 3rd edition pamphlet codex and so what if its presentation was truncated because of the fact that WD pages are limited? I don't think there was a single player using it who ever had an issue with their opponents not allowing them to disembark from their Rhinos simply because the WD army list didn't list the access points. Everyone understood that it was a stop-gap WD army list and took that into consideration.

gorgon wrote:can believe they'd want to buy themselves some time to focus on 6th ed

This makes the least sense to me. If 6th edition is just around the corner, as is widely believed, why bother "fixing" a codex that isn't really broken to begin with since the new edition is just going to play havoc with your "fixes" anyway? It'd be easier just to wait until the new edition is out and update (as well as FAQ/Errata - see Tomb Kings in 8th edition WFB before the awful new army book was released) them at that time.

Eumerin wrote:

gorgon wrote:can believe they'd want to buy themselves some time to focus on 6th ed

This makes the least sense to me. If 6th edition is just around the corner, as is widely believed, why bother "fixing" a codex that isn't really broken to begin with since the new edition is just going to play havoc with your "fixes" anyway? It'd be easier just to wait until the new edition is out and update (as well as FAQ/Errata - see Tomb Kings in 8th edition WFB before the awful new army book was released) them at that time.

People seem to have the mistaken impression that GW would be releasing this update to 'fix' the army list, when that has never been the reason they've ever done something like this. They would be updating the army list so that they don't have two completely different sets of rules for very similar (or exactly similar) units in the game.

That's why the FAQ for Templars and Dark Angels was not a 'fix' to help make those armies competitive again...although it did have that effect. The big reason you can tell that wasn't the case is the only 'fixes' GW made to those codexes was to realign the wargear so that it behaved the same as it does in other codexes...they did not make any effort to change any other completely worthless units in those army lists if there wasn't that kind of wargear inconsistency.

And if GW already has a solid plan for 6th edition 40K, there's absolutely no reason that the army list can't be written now to take advantage of those rules ahead of time, the same way the Ork codex did in many cases for the (then) upcoming 5th edition.

from what ive heard and seen sisters are a work in progress. the biggest issue is finding a way to make the arm robes look natural while still being modular and inter changable between kits. much like the arms of the DE releases. making cloth look "realistic" in plastic is very hard to do, and even harder when on upper arms and shoulders, since a movment of the arm affects how it hangs. in pewter models its simple becuase the whole model is posed in a singluar way, with diffrent variations existing. (what we have now).

that said i do believe that Jes is the one leading the SoB project and his sculpts are generally flipping amazing. so when they do get completed they should be pure gold. no word on rules or codex, but i have heard that the SoB will be among the first of the new hard covers for 40k. much like the orc and goblin whfb book. necrons might get this as well, but i havent heard anything to confirm.

I call it improbable because even if GW has done it in the past, that does not appear to be their current modus operandi.

Melissia wrote:I call it improbable because even if GW has done it in the past, that does not appear to be their current modus operandi.

While its certainly not the usual, what exactly has changed since they did it for the Blood Angels? Nothing, so far as I can tell.

When they released the BA WD army list, they said it was something out of the ordinary, but the same kind of factors that were involved in making a BA army list in WD seem sensible are also present now with the Grey Knights/Sistters of Battle, so to me it actually seems exactly within their modus operandi to make another exception and create a SoB White Dwarf army list to bring them roughly into line with the Grey Knights codex while they complete work on the miniature line for a 2012-2013 release.

A blog that doesn't cite its sources and has been known for random, left-of-field stuff in the past. I hope it's not true.

yakface wrote:

Melissia wrote:I call it improbable because even if GW has done it in the past, that does not appear to be their current modus operandi.

While its certainly not the usual, what exactly has changed since they did it for the Blood Angels? Nothing, so far as I can tell.

I think they've found out that they profit more from selling a book than from selling a WD, because they haven't had any real WD armies in fifth yet even thogh there were plenty of opportunities.

Besides, having a book on the shelf will get more people to buy the models for the army than not having a book on the shelf. "I'm interested in playing this army, where's its rulebook?" "Oh, it was in a white dwarf a year ago." "Okay, can I buy that?" "No, you missed it." "What?" "Sorry, go look on ebay or something." Cue customer deciding it's too much trouble and going somewhere else instead.

Frankly I have no reason to believe BoK at all.

Melissia wrote:

yakface wrote:

Melissia wrote:I call it improbable because even if GW has done it in the past, that does not appear to be their current modus operandi.

While its certainly not the usual, what exactly has changed since they did it for the Blood Angels? Nothing, so far as I can tell.

I think they've found out that they profit more from selling a book than from selling a WD, because they haven't had any real WD armies in fifth yet even thogh there were plenty of opportunities.

Besides, having a book on the shelf will get more people to buy the models for the army than not having a book on the shelf. "I'm interested in playing this army, where's its rulebook?" "Oh, it was in a white dwarf a year ago." "Okay, can I buy that?" "No, you missed it." "What?" "Sorry, go look on ebay or something." Cue customer deciding it's too much trouble and going somewhere else instead.

Frankly I have no reason to believe BoK at all.

White Dwarf army lists have not been a replacement for a codex/army book. They are a stop-gap filler until they finish producing the codex/army book. I'm not sure where you got the idea that if it was released in White Dwarf this would somehow be a replacement for a Codex.

And what other instances since Dark/Blood Angels have they had armies with similar designs going getting an update? The answer is: none until now!

Again, the Grey Knight/Sisters of Battle similarities match almost exactly with the similarities that led to the concurrent Dark and Blood Angels development. There have not been any similar situations between those two.

gorgon wrote:Figure Exorcists, Immolators and Repentia are candidates for plastic too. And you know there's going to be a bunch of new stuff with their current design approach.

Ah yes. Forgot about the Exorcist. Ok, so:

First Wave:
Sisters of Battle (10 plastic model box)
Seraphim (5 plastic model box)
Exorcist (1 plastic tank box)
Penitent Engine (1 plastic walker box - possibly even this Codex's 'Oval Base' release, as it seems everyone gets one now)


Immolators are already plastic, and the fate of Repentia will depend upon the fate of all metal models.

yakface wrote:
And as for the Blood Angels White Dwarf article being a 'failure', I think any failings with it were more tied to the issue of the Dark Angels codex rather than it being published in WD. It was still a big step forward from the old 3rd edition pamphlet codex and so what if its presentation was truncated because of the fact that WD pages are limited? I don't think there was a single player using it who ever had an issue with their opponents not allowing them to disembark from their Rhinos simply because the WD army list didn't list the access points. Everyone understood that it was a stop-gap WD army list and took that into consideration.

actually it was done locally as a matter of course. 1) Because both of the local BA players were phallus' and 2) to get the message back to the company via the local staff that the "codex" was beyond the pale terrible.

But yeah, a WD Sisters Codex will be great for business. Really*.

* Not Really.

It would also go against other things that have circulated. But we'll just all keep sleeping on that.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Flashman wrote:
It may be that the reason for delay is so the Codex and models can be released alongside 6th and not be instantly out of date. It is likely that 40K will switch to hardback once 6th comes around. GW might be waiting so that the Sisters get their hardback book done and out of the way knowing that they won't be redone anytime soon.

Yes but the SoBs have always gotten a half-assed to quarter-assed release. They were the last of the 2nd edition codexes and even then it was an 'allies' book, not a full army. Then they got 2 Chapter Approved lists in 3rd edition then and an instantly out of date codex with almost no plastics. And nothing since 2004.

It's a catch 22. With such shoddy support their sales must be low. With low sales it's hard to convince management to put time and money into developing them, not while Codex Black Space Marines is a possibility.
Obviously there are people in the studio who like them and are working on them but I doubt they are allowed to make it their first priority.

So yeah, I think we'll get a PDF and the full codex and plastics will be kicked further down the road.

This is the same problem that Brets and WE have in the Fantasy line.

Nagashek wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Flashman wrote:
It may be that the reason for delay is so the Codex and models can be released alongside 6th and not be instantly out of date. It is likely that 40K will switch to hardback once 6th comes around. GW might be waiting so that the Sisters get their hardback book done and out of the way knowing that they won't be redone anytime soon.

Yes but the SoBs have always gotten a half-assed to quarter-assed release. They were the last of the 2nd edition codexes and even then it was an 'allies' book, not a full army. Then they got 2 Chapter Approved lists in 3rd edition then and an instantly out of date codex with almost no plastics. And nothing since 2004.

It's a catch 22. With such shoddy support their sales must be low. With low sales it's hard to convince management to put time and money into developing them, not while Codex Black Space Marines is a possibility.
Obviously there are people in the studio who like them and are working on them but I doubt they are allowed to make it their first priority.

So yeah, I think we'll get a PDF and the full codex and plastics will be kicked further down the road.

This is the same problem that Brets and WE have in the Fantasy line.

and those Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings.

Wait. What?

Melissia wrote:Besides, having a book on the shelf will get more people to buy the models for the army than not having a book on the shelf. "I'm interested in playing this army, where's its rulebook?" "Oh, it was in a white dwarf a year ago." "Okay, can I buy that?" "No, you missed it." "What?" "Sorry, go look on ebay or something." Cue customer deciding it's too much trouble and going somewhere else instead.

If only GW had some sort of computer page thing that people could look at from their own computers. And then those people could maybe load stuff from GW's page thing down to their own computers, and use some sort of device to make that computer page print out on paper.

That'd be neat.

As for a stop gap could be done as erreta in the FAQ. I just dont see a WD dex making sense. Spearhead feels like just a way to do all tank/walker games.

cyrax777 wrote:As for a stop gap could be done as erreta in the FAQ.

I think that would depend somewhat on just how much they intend to change the list.

If (as I'm still suspecting) they're looking to distance Sisters from the Inquisition, just ripping out the Inquisition parts of the list via errata leaves things a little sparse.

Giving them a WD list allows them to be completely overhauled, adding Ecclesiarchy back in to replace the Inquisition elements, while giving them some time to finetune just how that's all going to work before releasing the actual codex. So Inquisition double-ups are removed, and Sisters get some extra playtesting. Everybody wins.

Well, except for those players with a lot of Inquisitorial elements in their current Sisters armies...

cyrax777 wrote:As for a stop gap could be done as erreta in the FAQ. I just dont see a WD dex making sense. Spearhead feels like just a way to do all tank/walker games.

Exactly. Just FAQ it as was done with TK when 8th edition WFB rolled around. No fuss, no muss, no having to deal with tracking down back issues of a gaming magazine so that you can play your army.

And it isn't as if GW isn't aware of the possibility given that -

- 1.) They've FAQed other armies to fix "issues" with them (see: TK)
- 2.) GW has already posted the Sisters list online for anyone who wants it

White Dwarf army lists have not been a replacement for a codex/army book. They are a stop-gap filler until they finish producing the codex/army book. I'm not sure where you got the idea that if it was released in White Dwarf this would somehow be a replacement for a Codex.

/headscratch

Er...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of a White Dwarf list would be to provide a playable list for Sororitas players while consigning the list found in the Codex to the scrap heap. Last I checked, this was indeed known as a "replacement". It may only be a short-term replacement, but it's a replacement nonetheless.

Further, there wouldn't be much point to creating a stop-gap list unless there was expected to be a significant delay between the release of the WD list and the release of the new Codex. Otherwise GW would be better served just by holding off for several months until the new Codex was ready. Ergo, this new WD list would be in place for a distressingly long period of time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of a White Dwarf list would be to provide a playable list for Sororitas players while consigning the list found in the Codex to the scrap heap. Last I checked, this was indeed known as a "replacement". It may only be a short-term replacement, but it's a replacement nonetheless.

Spoken like a true gentleman. Nicely accurate and succinct.

Eumerin wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of a White Dwarf list would be to provide a playable list for Sororitas players while consigning the list found in the Codex to the scrap heap. Last I checked, this was indeed known as a "replacement". It may only be a short-term replacement, but it's a replacement nonetheless.

I think what he was getting at was more that publishing a WD list doesnt mean that they wouldn't also eventually get a codex.

But if that codex is still going to be a while away, removing confusion by editing the list to remove conflicts with the GK book sooner rather than later is a good idea.

redeyed wrote:any update is a good update tbh especially if its soon!

How soon we all forget the crapfest which was the BA WD Codex...

But, if like BA, SoB/WH get an OP codex sometime after then it may be worth it. Hopefully they won't Ward the thing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah yes. Forgot about the Exorcist. Ok, so:

First Wave:
Sisters of Battle (10 plastic model box)
Seraphim (5 plastic model box)
Exorcist (1 plastic tank box)
Penitent Engine (1 plastic walker box - possibly even this Codex's 'Oval Base' release, as it seems everyone gets one now)


Immolators are already plastic, and the fate of Repentia will depend upon the fate of all metal models.

The thing you have to remember is that all new releases have had a significant number of new units added to them in almost all cases, not to mention a number of extra units added that don't come with initial models to leave room for them to come back and revisit the range again later without releasing a new codex.

So while you can list the existing models in the line and it may not sound like too much, you have to remember that there are going to be 'X' number of new units that they will also be designing and making kits for.

So I agree with the previous sentiment that this will not be a simple redesign. Not as complex as Dark Eldar, but probably the biggest release since that, which is one big reason I think you can expect this line to take a really long time to complete.

cyrax777 wrote:As for a stop gap could be done as erreta in the FAQ. I just dont see a WD dex making sense. Spearhead feels like just a way to do all tank/walker games.

But at some point you have nearly as long a list of errata as you do useable rules in the codex. But more than that, its clear from the Grey Knights codex that the whole feel of the Inquisitorial books have changed. The focus is now on the Chamber Militants, with the Inquisitorial elements firmly placed as a supplement to those forces. So again, with the format laid down in the Grey Knight codex it makes sense to release something that brings the Sisters much closer into line with how the final codex will be.

And yes, the point of Spearhead was exactly to allow people to play games using lots of tanks and walkers...that's what expansions are for, to give you variant rules to play different types of games than the standard game of 40K.

Eumerin wrote:

cyrax777 wrote:As for a stop gap could be done as erreta in the FAQ. I just dont see a WD dex making sense. Spearhead feels like just a way to do all tank/walker games.

Exactly. Just FAQ it as was done with TK when 8th edition WFB rolled around. No fuss, no muss, no having to deal with tracking down back issues of a gaming magazine so that you can play your army.

And it isn't as if GW isn't aware of the possibility given that -

- 1.) They've FAQed other armies to fix "issues" with them (see: TK)
- 2.) GW has already posted the Sisters list online for anyone who wants it

White Dwarf army lists have not been a replacement for a codex/army book. They are a stop-gap filler until they finish producing the codex/army book. I'm not sure where you got the idea that if it was released in White Dwarf this would somehow be a replacement for a Codex.

/headscratch

Er...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of a White Dwarf list would be to provide a playable list for Sororitas players while consigning the list found in the Codex to the scrap heap. Last I checked, this was indeed known as a "replacement". It may only be a short-term replacement, but it's a replacement nonetheless.

Further, there wouldn't be much point to creating a stop-gap list unless there was expected to be a significant delay between the release of the WD list and the release of the new Codex. Otherwise GW would be better served just by holding off for several months until the new Codex was ready. Ergo, this new WD list would be in place for a distressingly long period of time.

Again, it isn't so much about fixing 'issues' as making the army list match closer to what the army is going to be. The BA codex was released in mid-2008 and the final codex was released in mid-2010. If people are hoping for Sisters to come out later this year, obviously a WD codex should nix that idea, but even if GW is planning to release the codex sometime in 2012 it makes perfect sense to release a WD army list now, because of the discrepancies in styles between the old WH codex and the current GK codex.

Finally, people keep talking about having to track down issues of WD. To reiterate, while this will come out in WD supposedly, it will also be released via PDF exactly as they did with Blood Angels. There will be no requirement for people to track down issues of WD, just internet access.

yakface wrote:And what other instances since Dark/Blood Angels have they had armies with similar designs going getting an update? The answer is: none until now!

SO WAIT, you mean, they're doing it differently, therefor I am right in pointing out that they are doing it differently?

yakface wrote:The thing you have to remember is that all new releases have had a significant number of new units added to them in almost all cases, not to mention a number of extra units added that don't come with initial models to leave room for them to come back and revisit the range again later without releasing a new codex.

And the thing you have to remember is that, like the Grey Knights were, the Sisters are a completely metal range. New units get invented when:

1. The mainstay units are already in plastic.
2. You need more than recuts/removing hybrid kits to prop up a release (that's the reason why the Drop Pod and Land Speeder Storm exist in plastic).

Right now none of the mainstay Sisters units outside of the Immolator are in plastic, and like the Grey Knights (and the Space Wolves for that matter), two kits will cover all their options. For GK's they had to invent new units because what they had was so thin (4 squads, one of which was just the Troops unit that could Deep Strike in). Even now, with the addition of Paladins, Interceptors and Purifiers it's still just two kits covering all of them. Celestines, Dominions, Retributors and regular SoB Squads can be done via one box. Seraphim, like GK Terminators and Wolf Guard Terminators, are the only ones that vary enough in pose, look and weaponry that they would require a separate kit to the standard 'Troops' kit.

Does this mean there won't be new units? Of course not. You can be certain that when the Exorcist goes from metal/plastic hybrid that it won't just become a plastic Exorcist. It will be an Exorcist/[another type of tank] kit, just like most of the recent tank kits.

yakface wrote:So while you can list the existing models in the line and it may not sound like too much, you have to remember that there are going to be 'X' number of new units that they will also be designing and making kits for.

And a lot of 'new' units often get done in metal because it's cheaper than making plastic moulds for something that people might not like or because they're something that people won't buy lots of so making your money back on the mould isn't easy (it's why so many of the new Tyranid beasties were in metal, by Sternguard and Vanguard were in metal, why units like Mandrakes and Incubi are metal). But, with what's happening with metal at the moment, we don't know what the end result of that might be, so the issue mightn't be coming up with new units but how to produce those new units. Otherwise you end up like the Tyranids, with damn-near half their Codex not existing in model form, and then we're back to 2nd Ed 40K again... which is a horrible place to be.

Thanks for the reopen, Yak. More importantly, thanks for the refocus.

We definitely need less OMG and more discussion around here.

For the record, I think a WD codex would be great until they finish the real thing. Which from what we've been hearing, will be a while.

yakface wrote:Again, it isn't so much about fixing 'issues' as making the army list match closer to what the army is going to be. The BA codex was released in mid-2008 and the final codex was released in mid-2010. If people are hoping for Sisters to come out later this year, obviously a WD codex should nix that idea, but even if GW is planning to release the codex sometime in 2012 it makes perfect sense to release a WD army list now, because of the discrepancies in styles between the old WH codex and the current GK codex.

If a codex is due out in 2012, then a WD is pointless as it won't be around long enough to be worth bothering with. And a codex post-2012 doesn't make sense given the way that GW lately has been quickly working to update the oldest armies both in 40K and Fantasy. There's been a clear emphasis on GW's part to finally replace the army books and codices of the oldest armies for both game systems - and once Necrons are released, Sisters will be the oldest 40K army.

Finally, people keep talking about having to track down issues of WD. To reiterate, while this will come out in WD supposedly, it will also be released via PDF exactly as they did with Blood Angels. There will be no requirement for people to track down issues of WD, just internet access.

Unfortunately, that comment ignores the simple fact that GW often has a very lousy track record in putting stuff up on their website in a timely fashion.

Eumerin wrote:
If a codex is due out in 2012, then a WD is pointless as it won't be around long enough to be worth bothering with. And a codex post-2012 doesn't make sense given the way that GW lately has been quickly working to update the oldest armies both in 40K and Fantasy. There's been a clear emphasis on GW's part to finally replace the army books and codices of the oldest armies for both game systems - and once Necrons are released, Sisters will be the oldest 40K army.

What if its late 2012? 1 1 /2 years would not be worth it? Again, I'm basing this on the last time GW did exactly what is being suggested...the Blood Angels codex. This is not a 'full' codex, but something to get you by until the codex is released. So what exactly is not long enough to bother with? At this very moment, the massive differences between the way the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battles shared rules differ are quite apparent. What exactly would be bad about having a stop-gap WD codex that gives you an idea of how the final codex is going to look? If you're not going to be able to play your existing Inquisitorial army with Sister allies with the new codex, does it really make a huge difference if you get wind of the change now or in 2 years?

And again, my premise is that it isn't a simple matter of GW snapping their fingers and saying 'hey we're going to release this army or that army next', there is actual long lead times involved with doing development on armies. Necrons seem to be an old army that took a lot of resources to redo, as they've redone much of the range and added so many new units, so it makes total sense that GW would be able to squeeze in armies that would take considerably less design resources to finish like Black Templars and even Tau before they get to something like the Sisters.

Unfortunately, that comment ignores the simple fact that GW often has a very lousy track record in putting stuff up on their website in a timely fashion.

And again, I'm just basing this on the actual last time GW did something like this, which was the Blood Angels WD codex. In which case, yes they did put it up as a PDF at the end of the month that it was released in White Dwarf. There's no reason to assume that things would be any different this time.

I think a lot of the frustration at hearing that SoB may be a WD release is the fear that it may put off a future codex release as a result. I know if the past is any indication, that if a WD release is indeed coming, then likely an actual codex release will follow sometime in the future. But it must come as a real let down to those who have been anxiously waiting for a new codex because it will likely disrupt the style of army they now play, but won't have all the content a full codex release has. I think some Witchhunter players would rather keep the status quo for now and wait until they get the full book codex treatment to change up their armies.

I'm showing you this now to ensure everyone is OK with the direction games workshop is taking the sister of battle when the new plastics do come out in 2021.



Of course providing everyone is cool with this the designs can be passed straight to the design team and they can get started straight away.

1.) Sororitas had two Codices before, one a gap-filler that became obsolet within a few months, the other a cheap copy paste gap filler near the end of 3rd edition. Another gap filler would just be too much.
2.) Work on Codex Sororitas started 6 months after Codex Grey Knights. Everything points at it being Ecclesiarchy focussed (new background has to be written), with all Witchhunter units transferred to the Grey Knight COdex for a reason. Several plastic kits like preacher, penitent engine and sororitas have been seen. All this year long work for 10 pages in a WD?

This thread sure is full of a lot of spam, nonsense and stuff completely fabricated by the people posting rather than something even remotely rumor-like. As usual the "attention grabbers" who can't stop posting no matter how thin the info just to get their post count up or feel that they are the center of attention in every thread have bloated this beyond all proportion. Here's hoping this thread dies soon till there's something even approaching some new plausible sounding rumor or info.

New utility belt "thong" ensures easy access to grenades/clips"

Easy access, eh? Is that what they'll be calling "it" in the lore of the 40K universe, "grenades/clips"? Typical Imperial thinking, everything, and I do mean everything, is couched in military terms. *nudge, wink*

I'm fine with:

No codex for a while

A WD update codex

A full codex

In the first case I get to keep my Sisters allies in my IG army. In the other cases I get to instead build them up into a full army.

Kroothawk wrote:1.) Sororitas had two Codices before, one a gap-filler that became obsolet within a few months, the other a cheap copy paste gap filler near the end of 3rd edition. Another gap filler would just be too much.
2.) Work on Codex Sororitas started 6 months after Codex Grey Knights. Everything points at it being Ecclesiarchy focussed (new background has to be written), with all Witchhunter units transferred to the Grey Knight COdex for a reason. Several plastic kits like preacher, penitent engine and sororitas have been seen. All this year long work for 10 pages in a WD?

1) Hey, I loved Codex: Chapter Approved. It was a great list and really solidified my love for 40k. I would love for them to do that again.
2) Allegedly work started 6 months after C: GK. Just like this rumor is alleged. Also, I imagine that a WD codex is going to be a stopgap until the real codex is released. I think the real fallacy that people are putting up is that a WD codex will somehow delay a real one. No, I think it is the opposite: a real codex is delayed for one reason or another so a WD codex is being released. You aren't losing anything, but instead gaining something.

yakface wrote:
I don't find this possibility to be either surprising or a problem.

It totally fits in line with the last White Dwarf army list (Blood Angels) that was published because at the time the similarities between the Blood Angels and Dark Angles lists meant that much of the work of re-designing the army list for Blood Angels was completed when Jervis wrote the Dark Angels codex.

Similarly, much of what will be in the Sisters Codex has been done with the Grey Knights. All the Inquisitor, Henchmen & Assassin rules should be exactly the same, as will the Inquisitorial special characters, one would assume. So it only makes sense to go ahead and put out a stop-gap list in White Dwarf while the miniature line is being worked on, if for no other reason than not to have two wildly different versions of Assassins running around the game.

In no way can I possibly see this as a method to 'squat' the army. GW has publicly said that they're not 'squatting' any more full armies, and since they've made that announcement, they certainly haven't made any moves to indicate that this has changed. All the army lists that have been published in WD in recent years (Warriors of Chaos & Blood Angels) have gotten full books later, and there's no reason to assume that this won't be the same scenario...and if those examples hold true, there's no reason to assume that the final army list won't be fairly different from what is put out in White Dwarf.


Finally, as for the idea that GW may be 'crapping' on Sisters and instead going with the cash cow of Black Templars, one important thing to remember is that there is very little model development time required to refresh the Black Templars. They are a SM army with a few doo-dads added on, and that means only a small amount of work has to be done. The sisters, on the other hand, will require a much larger amount of new models to bring their line into the current realm of mainly plastics, and that means it will take, much, much longer to complete.

Hell, they worked on Dark Eldar models for about 3 years, if that gives you any indication of how long these things can take when you're talking about redoing most of the line. So even if they're working on both the Black Templars AND the Sisters at the same time (which they probably are) the Black Templars would still make sense to release first simply because they can finish them more quickly.

So to be clear, are we looking at resin sisters until plastic sisters come out at a TBD date later on?
I'm jazzed about the resin as I can convert a full army vs. all metal - I'll never try that again. Any info on on when conversion to resin will occur? Come on GW give me an actual reason to buy an army.

Frazzled wrote:So to be clear, are we looking at resin sisters until plastic sisters come out at a TBD date later on?
I'm jazzed about the resin as I can convert a full army vs. all metal - I'll never try that again. Any info on on when conversion to resin will occur? Come on GW give me an actual reason to buy an army.

I skipped out on the Resin threads mostly. Did anyone ever get a fairly reliable confirmation that GW is moving to resin? Or is it still speculation on the pull of all the metal stuff to direct?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like being able to drop/huck/fire my sisters at random things and have them be completely fine.

So GK were march right? So 3+6, carry the 1, add 2d6+9, subtract sigmars birthday = 9 = september/october? That would fit... although people say necrons then.. but something has to be released inbetween may and september? Would that be necrons? Or are GW being absolute hoors* and going to release them? If they are STILL having plastics trouble then pull necrons forward and bump SOB to later OR wait even longer.... I think we'll learn more when the next 'incoming' is announced... when is that going to be announced anyway?

*Irish Coloquialism - written and intended as 'whores', pronounced 'hoors' (as in moors), and meaing sly or shrewed when applied to a non-female.

If they're going to release a WDex for Sisters, it'll either be because they want to bring Assassin + Inquisition stats and rules in line with Codex: Grey Knights or because they're being removed entirely a la daemons in Warrior of Chaos. That probably makes the most sense here.

pretre wrote:I skipped out on the Resin threads mostly. Did anyone ever get a fairly reliable confirmation that GW is moving to resin? Or is it still speculation on the pull of all the metal stuff to direct?

From my Miniwargaming newsletter today:

"Is Games Workshop discontinuing metals?

Ever since Games Workshop stopped selling their metal miniatures to retailers, there have been a lot of rumours as to whether they were getting rid of metals altogether.

The last time I spoke with my trade representative (who apparently is the last to know of any changes) he said that all he was told was that all the metal miniatures were being "repackaged."

Whether that means giving them better blisters (let's face it, the current blister packaging sucks), or whether they are switching from metals to something else (perhaps resin), he has no idea.

Having said that, we have placed all of the GW metals in clearance in anticipation of these changes, so you get to save because of it (whatever "it" is)."

Thanks, Rev.

ceorron wrote:
I'm showing you this now to ensure everyone is OK with the direction games workshop is taking the sister of battle when the new plastics do come out in 2021.



Of course providing everyone is cool with this the designs can be passed straight to the design team and they can get started straight away.

I think you enjoy female models (the plastic small kind) a little too much....

Melissia wrote:
Besides, having a book on the shelf will get more people to buy the models for the army than not having a book on the shelf. "I'm interested in playing this army, where's its rulebook?" "Oh, it was in a white dwarf a year ago." "Okay, can I buy that?" "No, you missed it." "What?" "Sorry, go look on ebay or something." Cue customer deciding it's too much trouble and going somewhere else instead.

Did you somehow miss the part about it going online as PDF like Blood Angels did? I never saw anyone playing BA actually using the genuine WD issues during a game. Everyone had the PDF codex. A codex that could lay open flat. Who ever heard of such a thing?

I thought the BA dex was a great idea and I still like it more than the Book of Blood despite all the neat, bloody doodads it has. I think the game would be better served if all codices were available (legitimately) as PDFs.

I understand the visceral reaction to a WD codex. While there's no reason it can't be as good a a normal printed codex, putting it in WD just feels like it's being relegated to second class status and the insult is magnified with sisters because they've been a marginalized army for quite some time.

i would not have a problem with a temporary WD list, followed by a proper codex when the models are complete. it would bring the SoB in line with other armies, AND spark some interest in the line up, wich will increase sales and hype for the new range. it would also send a very clear message that "yes they are being worked on, and a codex is arriving shortly" kind of like an appetizer.

as it is right now, i dont think the witch hunters codex is even for sale, and its fairly obseloete. updating through WD with a downloadable pdf after makes sense in the short term.

Thing is, the book does not really need to be brought in line. It is. Witchhunters stands quite firmly besides all the 4th edition books.

Revarien wrote:The last time I spoke with my trade representative (who apparently is the last to know of any changes) he said that all he was told was that all the metal miniatures were being "repackaged."

Which could quite simply mean that they're canning blisters (or keeping them as direct only) and putting all of the metals in boxed sets instead, rather than removing metal from the range.

The codex is fine as it is for now, the thing that sucks is the metal models for almost everything. WD update doesn't make sense if they are not bringing in the plastic. New rules won't attract new players or make current players buy more stuff. The prohibitive price of troops it's what's keeping people from buying wh stuff.

Well, the remaining books to be updated are the Necrons, Tau and Witch Hunters, then Black Templar and Dark Angels who are currently merely FAQ-updated.

With Necrons probably being next, it was speculated the power armored Sisters would be up next. However, their release could be delayed for various reasions, including if they really do show up in the next starter set (tenuous rumor, admittedly).

The FAQ update could be as simple as updating costs/wargear for 5th edition, and copy&pasting the C:GK inquisitor/henchmen/assassins rules over.

Korraz wrote:Thing is, the book does not really need to be brought in line.

Yes it does. It has no real choice in it.

GW is trying to do away with two sets of rules for the same thing, as Yak said. Hence the BT/DA updates and the theory that WH might get a PDF codex.

Arschbombe wrote:Did you somehow miss the part about it going online as PDF like Blood Angels did? I never saw anyone playing BA actually using the genuine WD issues during a game. Everyone had the PDF codex. A codex that could lay open flat. Who ever heard of such a thing?

I made a flipbook out of mine. One side was BA, the other was the then latest release of the Tempus Fugitives packet with a spiral binding, so it could lay flat.

And no, I didn't miss that. What's your point? GW fethed up its PDFs for C:WH, C:BA, and CH, I would hardly expect them to do a quality job on a hypothetical and rather improbable C:SoB.

A WD codex / PDF sounds like a Chapter Approved kind of thing, which a lot of people would like. It would get players to bring out their current SoB armies, which would popularise the army by example.

I reckon a good Sisters book plus revised models would sell pretty well. It's a different look and feel to an army -- better than another SM codex, anyway.

The metal/resin/blisters mystery will be revealed on Monday. I suggest that people make the most of the 48 hours left to speculate furiously.

A new Codex (plus new releases including plastic standards) would bring even more people to buy Sororitas, don't you think?

BrassScorpion wrote:This thread sure is full of a lot of spam, nonsense and stuff completely fabricated by the people posting rather than something even remotely rumor-like. As usual the "attention grabbers" who can't stop posting no matter how thin the info just to get their post count up or feel that they are the center of attention in every thread have bloated this beyond all proportion. Here's hoping this thread dies soon till there's something even approaching some new plausible sounding rumor or info.

New utility belt "thong" ensures easy access to grenades/clips"

Easy access, eh? Is that what they'll be calling "it" in the lore of the 40K universe, "grenades/clips"? Typical Imperial thinking, everything, and I do mean everything, is couched in military terms. *nudge, wink*

Just for you information, if you are refering to me, then I'm really the quietest person you will likely meet, never needed to be the centre of attention. Like alot of people i'm just hear for a little fun, a bit of a laugh, poke some fun at a far too serious forum about some rather thin rumours.

And just so you know, I have little interest in pushing up my post count, though maybe your refering to someone else here?

As for grenades, it is the explosion we are all after, i'm sure you would agree. I hope I don't have to explain clips to peoples *nudge, wink*

Mantle wrote:

ceorron wrote:
I'm showing you this now to ensure everyone is OK with the direction games workshop is taking the sister of battle when the new plastics do come out in 2021.



Of course providing everyone is cool with this the designs can be passed straight to the design team and they can get started straight away.

I think you enjoy female models (the plastic small kind) a little too much....

Maybe .....

Kroothawk wrote:A new Codex (plus new releases including plastic standards) would bring even more people to buy Sororitas, don't you think?

A mini release can be done more quickly and cheaply than a full codex plus models, and allow GW to gauge interest in the market before they commit themselves to full production.

The full release of new Codex and full model range would follow.

I see business logic in the rumour.

Kilkrazy wrote:A mini release can be done more quickly and cheaply than a full codex plus models, and allow GW to gauge interest in the market before they commit themselves to full production.

The biggest reason the Sisters don't sell is because of their lack of plastic support. A mini release must therefore either include plastic support (which is what we're asking for in the first place), or it will only tell them what we already know: that Sisters don't sell if they don't have plastic support.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:A new Codex (plus new releases including plastic standards) would bring even more people to buy Sororitas, don't you think?

A mini release can be done more quickly and cheaply than a full codex plus models, and allow GW to gauge interest in the market before they commit themselves to full production.
The full release of new Codex and full model range would follow.
I see business logic in the rumour.

As said, the Sororitas have the same development time as the Grey Codex (being started half a year later and being released at least half a year later). And they get several new plastics. So no time saving there. I don't see business logic there to waste all this effort for 10 pages WD (hoping that people will now rush to buy 100 metal sisters). But maybe we shouldn't mention business logic and GW in one sentence

So Kroothawk when do you think they'll be out / first wave announced?

Kroothawk wrote:business logic

The most logical business in this case would be to release something else instead.

Hopefully not true, having played a PDF/White Dwarf Codex with Blood Angels until recently I wouldn't wish it on anyone

If it's just a stopgap it's not too bad, but I'd much prefer them to get the same treatment as Dark Eldar are.

After spending so many years waiting, I'm willing to wait the time it takes to finally have something worthwhile.

So I hope for a full and serious codex release, and not for some stopgap.

Grenat wrote:After spending so many years waiting, I'm willing to wait the time it takes to finally have something worthwhile.

So I hope for a full and serious codex release, and not for some stopgap.

this^

im all for an updated codex, i cant wait, but to simply "update" the rules to take out the inquisition (as i assume is the case if this is true) would be pointless. plus they are all still *** metal!

also, can there be a sob rumor thread w/o the obvious sex jokes?

Melissia wrote:

Korraz wrote:Thing is, the book does not really need to be brought in line.

Yes it does. It has no real choice in it.

Neither have the 4th edition books, all in all.
A WD codex will accomplish exactly nothing.

kenzosan wrote:also, can there be a sob rumor thread w/o the obvious sex jokes?

sadly no, this is the internet after all.... though i ungodly wish we could some times

I see many of you love SoB, so Im hoping for you guys that you get a codex that you need to buy and 100 pages long. And ofcourse plastic SoB.


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Oh and if its to GWS they wont have front armor.

Which army does Arbites come in? They would be a nice filler for Sisters army. Since they have both ranged and CC riot gear i can see the kit been very popular.

LunaHound wrote:Which army does Arbites come in? They would be a nice filler for Sisters army. Since they have both ranged and CC riot gear i can see the kit been very popular.

Adeptus Arbites is not an army, it's the police force in 40k. They are responsible for riot control, police work, arresting people and beating them for confessions etc.

Current WH codex allows you to use them by suggesting to swap the weapons for the stormtroopers for shotguns. So I guess if they come back at all it would be as a filler in the SoB codex, but if it goes for more of an Ecclesiarchy angle then they'll probably be gone or just have to go with the IG codex.

winterman wrote:

Pretty similar situation now with Grey Knights/Dh and Sisters of Battle/WH. Perhaps the SoB plastics are a ways off and in the meantime they want to clean up the rules a bit and get the last of the 3ed codexes redone before 6ed? As with the fantasy chaos, the actual SoB dex could follow soon after, likely early on in 6ed.

Could lend some truth to the Sisters being in a new starter box. Give them a small update now and then a whole new codex soon after they are released as part of the 6th ed starter.


Or it could simply show they dont have a strong enough following for GW to deem worthy of a true codex.

MadCowCrazy wrote:Adeptus Arbites is not an army, it's the police force in 40k. They are responsible for riot control, police work, arresting people and beating them for confessions etc.

Codex Imperialis wrote:The fighting forces of the Adeptus Arbites are the Arbitrators, warriors of justice, the militant arm of the Judges. These warriors are many and well armed, capable of fighting a limited war if need be, and of transporting themselves through space in their own ships. For the Judges trust no-one they may be called upon to judge, and can find themselves fighting rebellious Warmasters of the Imperial Guard, or chasing treacherous Admirals of the Fleet.

The Adeptus Arbites must withstand sieges from entire Planetary Defense Forces and bring would-be tyrants to justice. They use Main Battle Tanks. They are not a police force as you use the word.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Which army does Arbites come in? They would be a nice filler for Sisters army. Since they have both ranged and CC riot gear i can see the kit been very popular.

Adeptus Arbites is not an army, it's the police force in 40k. They are responsible for riot control, police work, arresting people and beating them for confessions etc.

In a game where Space Vikings hit people in the face with chainsaws it's a bit silly to dismiss anything as not belonging on the battlefield.

Space Cops with space shotguns are cool and that's more than enough reason to include them.

lol. KK speaks truth. Sometimes it seems folks start to take the fluff around here a bit too close to heart.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Which army does Arbites come in? They would be a nice filler for Sisters army. Since they have both ranged and CC riot gear i can see the kit been very popular.

Adeptus Arbites is not an army, it's the police force in 40k. They are responsible for riot control, police work, arresting people and beating them for confessions etc.

In a game where Space Vikings hit people in the face with chainsaws it's a bit silly to dismiss anything as not belonging on the battlefield.

No, it's really not. Arbites, while not being "the police force in 40k" don't belong on the tabletop because by the time things get to the point of more forces being called in: the Arbites are dead or beginning to form a pro-Imperial resistance movement and are effectively 'off screen'.

Space Cops with space shotguns are cool and that's more than enough reason to include them.

You can keep the silliness to yourself, thank you.


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grizgrin wrote:lol. KK speaks truth. Sometimes it seems folks start to take the fluff around here a bit too close to heart.

And?

People don't play 40k for balanced tournament rules, y'know.

The saving grace of 40k is a huge background setting that seemingly appeals to a large audience and a line of pretty nice models.

So it would make no sense at say a kill team level then or, like the current WH codex suggests, they are "enlisted" by an Inquisitor? It's not all huge giant battles all the time.

Perhaps they're better off joining the myriad of other forces that use the IG codex.

n0t_u wrote:So it would make no sense at say a kill team level then or, like the current WH codex suggests, they are "enlisted" by an Inquisitor? It's not all huge giant battles all the time.

Perhaps they're better off joining the myriad of other forces that use the IG codex.

But there's the rub. All accounts are that the new Sisters of Battle Codex?

Absolutely nothing to do with the Inquisition. All Ecclesiarchy, all the time.

So there's not even "Arbites requested by an Inquisitor" as an excuse.

And really? An Arbites choice in the Guard Codex could be workable. A 'unique' veteran unit with counter-charge capability, heavy stubbers, shotguns with special ammunition, etc would be a godsend for people who dislike Ogryns.

stinger989 from Warseer got this from another source:

well i just got some bad news from my source, take it as you will.

sisters are going to be in a white dwarf spread....so no "real codex" for us.

needless to say i was not happy.....
and faith points got nerfed....still in the development stage though.
(...)
this is not a BOK echo, it is what is going to happen with them as they need a proper book and gw is going to wait to do one, so as of now we are getting a band-aid for the sisters in the form of WD.....i was very upset when i found out

I did hear some interenting stuff about 6ed but thats off topic and i can not elaborate too much about it yet.
(...)
well i did just play sisters yesterday and moped up at a tournment so they are still totally viable. granted it was only a 20 person tourny.

when 6ed comes out sisters will get a boost, but then all shooty armies will with what my source has said so far.

my source has never been wrong before so im going to trust him that the sisters are going to be getting a two part wd release, maybe in november but they are still in the rough stages of development.

That's a bit better of a source. How unfortunate.

That's some bad news indeed :(

So, if true, I wonder what will be included.

Any new units, or purely a tidying up exercise?

My guess is that it's gonna be a poorly written wreck, myself. That pretty much summarizes GW's ability to write PDFs as demonstrated thus far.

I would hope we got some sort of model release with it, a plastic Repressor would be the easiest kit for them to pump out since it's just 4-6 pieces that need to be made into plastic.

Then again it all depends on what sort of "update" it is, personally the only thing I would expect GW to do would be remove the allies rule, remove the assassins, Inquisitors, IST and Karmazov without adding anything new or changing the points costs, not even for Rhinos. I would be really surprised if they added anything at all.

If GW do a WD releiase with minis it will at least give a chance to get some minatures done/painted etc. It will suck that there would be no codex.

However the next incoming should be this week...

Kroothawk wrote:stinger989 from Warseer got this from another source:

well i just got some bad news from my source, take it as you will.

sisters are going to be in a white dwarf spread....so no "real codex" for us.

needless to say i was not happy.....
and faith points got nerfed....still in the development stage though.
(...)
this is not a BOK echo, it is what is going to happen with them as they need a proper book and gw is going to wait to do one, so as of now we are getting a band-aid for the sisters in the form of WD.....i was very upset when i found out

I did hear some interenting stuff about 6ed but thats off topic and i can not elaborate too much about it yet.
(...)
well i did just play sisters yesterday and moped up at a tournment so they are still totally viable. granted it was only a 20 person tourny.

when 6ed comes out sisters will get a boost, but then all shooty armies will with what my source has said so far.

my source has never been wrong before so im going to trust him that the sisters are going to be getting a two part wd release, maybe in november but they are still in the rough stages of development.

All shooting armies are going to get a boost in 6th Ed.? Er?

MadCowCrazy wrote:I would hope we got some sort of model release with it, a plastic Repressor would be the easiest kit for them to pump out since it's just 4-6 pieces that need to be made into plastic.

Then again it all depends on what sort of "update" it is, personally the only thing I would expect GW to do would be remove the allies rule, remove the assassins, Inquisitors, IST and Karmazov without adding anything new or changing the points costs, not even for Rhinos. I would be really surprised if they added anything at all.

As would I. GW's PDF productions have always been lackluster.

Hopefully because they are too busy working on TTTTAAAUUUUU!!!!!!

AgeOfEgos wrote:All shooting armies are going to get a boost in 6th Ed.? Er?

You know, because shooty armies aren't good enough right now.

this sux, like many others im sure, i dont want to build an entire metal army. its expensive and a pain to actually build. faith getting nerfed, i might just use the old codex and build an army. sisters need plastic so bad too :(

ugh, i hated the ba gw codex, but i love the ba's just like i love the sisters. i really wish i could have the armies i love be my actual working forces, but its like my friend and his necrons... my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up. gotta tell ya that numbers gonna be pretty small and not represent the players out there wanting to play sisters. it feels like they are doing this solely for the gk's and the contradicting units.

Kilkrazy wrote:I reckon a good Sisters book plus revised models would sell pretty well. It's a different look and feel to an army -- better than another SM codex, anyway.

I think you're right. And 'Better than another SM codex' pretty well applies to any non-SM codex. There are no armies more deserving of a new codex than the SoB. A WD update, on top of being a slap in the face, is really just how GW chooses to tell us they're probably not getting a new codex for a long time yet... Which at this point is inexcusable. After the BA debacle, GW promised they'd never print another PDF army update. Guess they just meant for SMs...

Archonate wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I reckon a good Sisters book plus revised models would sell pretty well. It's a different look and feel to an army -- better than another SM codex, anyway.

I think you're right. And 'Better than another SM codex' pretty well applies to any non-SM codex. There are no armies more deserving of a new codex than the SoB. A WD update, on top of being a slap in the face, is really just how GW chooses to tell us they're probably not getting a new codex for a long time yet... Which at this point is inexcusable. After the BA debacle, GW promised they'd never print another PDF army update. Guess they just meant for SMs...

It really isn't a "slap in the face". Phil Kelly, responsible for the Dark Eldar Codex, has been dropping hints that he's working on the Sisters book now since he's "all Eldared out".

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

AgeOfEgos wrote:All shooting armies are going to get a boost in 6th Ed.? Er?

I'm pretty sure we can see the same treatment as we saw in Fantasy: You can now pre-measure shooting, probably everything, and you can always wound on a 6 and will always glance a vehicle on a 6. So your grots can now annihilate Land Raiders etc, then again that's a SM unit so all SM vehicles will cause electric shock to anyone who assaults them does 6D6 S10 Ap1 hits for every hit they take.

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Archonate wrote:

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

Yeah, I'm sure those ten SoB players are really going to make WD sales jump.

But seriously. If they were to be doing it as any kind of 'testing', it would be better to watch downloads.


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Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

Kanluwen wrote:Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

Dark Eldar seems to be the standard these days... But a WD update and PDF has proven to be a good excuse for GW to procrastinate.

Kanluwen wrote:

Archonate wrote:

kenzosan wrote:my favorite thing is that it seems they are basing something on the wd codex when it ships, seeing how many people pick it up.

You may be on to something here. This isn't about doing a favor for SoB players, it's about finding a way to get WD to sell...

Yeah, I'm sure those ten SoB players are really going to make WD sales jump.

But seriously. If they were to be doing it as any kind of 'testing', it would be better to watch downloads.


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Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It really isn't a "slap in the face".

A bold statement. I'd put it to a vote among SoB players before saying such things...

Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

kenzosan wrote:

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

Uhhuh.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

I love when people use terms like "slap in the face" to describe their army being not updated for a lengthy time period, even though it's still pretty dang viable by most accounts. I'd rather get a "slap in the face" like that then an "update" like the Dark Angels or Chaos Space Marines books.

Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

I find it difficult to understand the sentiment here.

Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

The perceived lack of quality in previous WD codices doesn't preclude the Sister's one being at least of passable quality.

It's not like it's being written by the dogs in the street. The same chap purportedly heading this codex has produced decent work in the past.

Kanluwen wrote:Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

This is all true... But it's also irrelevant to what we're talking about. We know the SoB codex is in the works, and going to be amazing. The problem is the 'when'... If they're releasing a PDF update, it's probably "not as soon as it should be."

Kanluwen wrote:

kenzosan wrote:

first, your right. those 10 players that want an update. the rest of us wait for the real one.

Uhhuh.

second, it is a slap in the face to sob. daemonhunters, witchhunters, necrons and dark eldar have been ignored for so long. 2 of them got updates and 1 is so heavily rumored right now id rather not comment on it for this point. tau needs on as well imo but thats simply because the ig can out shoot the tau right now, and thats just, wow.

I love when people use terms like "slap in the face" to describe their army being not updated for a lengthy time period, even though it's still pretty dang viable by most accounts. I'd rather get a "slap in the face" like that then an "update" like the Dark Angels or Chaos Space Marines books.

Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.


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CyRevenant wrote:I find it difficult to understand the sentiment here.

Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

The perceived lack of quality in previous WD codices doesn't preclude the Sister's one being at least of passable quality.

It's not like it's being written by the dogs in the street. The same chap purportedly heading this codex has produced decent work in the past.

for me, in the past if you post a poor codex in wd im not gonna expect better. same goes for writers of a codex, no proof of anything better then ill believe your gonna do it poorly. the big problem is sisters need a model update. its an all metal army right now. this is a big deal breaker for alot of players. its more expensive and is much more difficult to put together as well.

Archonate wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Going down the list: Dark Eldar have been in the works for a long time. That's because they didn't want to just remove the army from existence, without at least trying to salvage it.
Dark Eldar, by far, have gone and been the single best codex they've produced to date. The fluff is fantastic, the models are fantastic, and the rules are pretty good too.
Tau will always be outshot by the Imperial Guard. It comes from the fact that the Guard, as of now, will have more troops on the board than the Tau will.
Necrons are getting the same "reimagining" that the Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have received. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
Sisters of Battle are undergoing that same treatment now, and have been since after the Grey Knights book was released. Work started on it a month or so after GK, by all reliable accounts, with Phil Kelly helming the design.

This is all true... But it's also irrelevant to what we're talking about. We know the SoB codex is in the works, and going to be amazing. The problem is the 'when'... If they're releasing a PDF update, it's probably "not as soon as it should be."

And if they're releasing a PDF update to bring Sisters in line for the closing days of 5th edition, with the goal of Sisters being the first book released for the new edition(with rumors pointing towards 6th being late 2012, early 2013 and the gap between C:BA and the WD/PDF being about a year as well)--where's the problem there?

That's what we're getting as rumors right now. They line up fairly decently, which means I do not see a problem, at all, with this.

kenzosan wrote:im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.

Really? "Not even FAQ update"?
Codex: Witchhunters got a FAQ update in 2009. They also had their entire Codex put up as a downloadable PDF then, with the 'Ally' rules(what GW really wants to get rid of) removed.

I really hope it is at least two years before we see a 6th edition.

Kilkrazy wrote:I really hope it is at least two years before we see a 6th edition.

Me too, but these are the 'rumors' going around right now.

The DE and GK books gave us false hope. That's why this news is so painful. Looking ahead, it's hard to say whether we'd rather be the last book in 5th or the first in 6th. The thought I can't shake is that it took three years for BA to go from WD to dex.

Honestly, a white Dwarf update would be rubbish.

Manchu wrote:The DE and GK books gave us false hope.

How?
It's not like they said "After DE and GK, you're 100% guaranteed to get the Sisters of Battle codex".

That's why this news is so painful.

False hope from vague prophecies usually are when they don't come to fruition. I'm not really seeing how this is some kind of betrayal or anything, it's simply people going off false hopes.

Looking ahead, it's hard to say whether we'd rather be the last book in 5th or the first in 6th.

Then can my Dark Angels take your spot? I'd love to be the last book in 5th and get to have a power army for a few months.

The thought I can't shake is that it took three years for BA to go from WD to dex.

And from "underpowered joke WD article" to "people won't stop crying about it as an absurdly broken piece".

Kanluwen wrote:

kenzosan wrote:im sorry i dont think i put that right. the wd codex is a slap in the face. i just tagged on there that i dont like a codex not being updated for so long. rules change, to not update codex's or atleast not even faq update is just bad.

Really? "Not even FAQ update"?
Codex: Witchhunters got a FAQ update in 2009. They also had their entire Codex put up as a downloadable PDF then, with the 'Ally' rules(what GW really wants to get rid of) removed.

just a general statement. theres been rule changes that havent been addressed in some codex faqs. imo if you update the general rules then you need to address the specific ones either in a new codex or a new faq asap, not years after the fact.

You can keep the rulebook then, just give the poor Witch Hunter players their models. If anything you could justify them being Grey Knight inquisitorial henchmen.

CyRevenant wrote:
Why would the format in which a codex is published have any impact on the quality of said codex.

That's what I'm saying. There's no reason a codex published in the pages of WD and then made available for download as a PDF would have to have bad rules, bad fluff, and a bad army list simply because it was in WD. Seems like the naysayers are making the assumption here is that a codex that gets sent to a printer will automatically be better in all aspects merely because it is printed and bound.

I never paid it much attention... Beyond the lack of vehicle Access and Fire point rules, what was so terrible about the Blood Angels WD list?

insaniak wrote:I never paid it much attention... Beyond the lack of vehicle Access and Fire point rules, what was so terrible about the Blood Angels WD list?

It was a Jervis dex. Squads were 5 or 10 man (except Death Company and veteran assault squads). Nothing in between. It made it very easy to make lists to exact point values since everything was multiples of 5 points.

I quite liked it. All I really wanted out of the new dex was for assault squads to be able to take special weapons, trade their jump packs for razorbacks and squads sizes other than 5 or 10.

The WD army list is only a slap in the face if it is not the prelude to an actual codex in the future. Like Yak has pointed out all of these army lists have been in the past so it is only logical to think this will be the same here. The biggest issue along with the discrepancies created by codex grey knights is the lack of plastics which I hope is remedied although personally this won't be a issue for me until the actual codex comes has I just don't see a desire to start a army based on WD army list. This makes me think that the WD army list is just there for the current Sisters players and the discrepancies that exist. obviously the changes to be made will not be simple amendments or cuts otherwise we would see a FAQ erratas or what not.

Off topic I do hope we have a lot longer till 6th edition, I sympathise for the codex or codex's at the end of 5th but I do like the idea of at least getting all armies a 5th edition codex.

Hey there,

Long time listener, first time caller.

I think the big fear, and it is not unfounded, is that the White Dwarf "Codex" will nerf or take away from the Battle Sister's army and give us nothing in return.

The rumors are already strong that faith points have gotten a nerf and there is no indication of new models, only new limitations. We lose the inquisition and gain... what?

A lot of people praised the old Chapter Approved codex, but really it gave us the Exorcist and Frater Militia, both of which were mostly available through arcane and expensive mail order scams. We lost the militia when the Codex finally hit.

So we have two concerns really

1) nothing new, only losses and limitations to "bring them in line with 5th ed". and
2) Anything new we do get, we may not be able to keep when (and if) a full codex finally comes.

So are there any rumors to counter that? Anything that says the rules are new and fun? Otherwise there is not much to excite me in these rumors. And I am trying to be excited.