29408
Post by: Melissia
Also, he just saw a sprue with five models on it. More than likely, we'll get two sprues i na box. Kanluwen wrote:Would you rather have a quickly done codex ala Blood Angels or the craptastic Dark Angels book--or a Dark Eldar?
Frankly, I could write a better written, more balanced codex than any of these mentioned above in half the time it takes GW to do it.
That's what I'm saying. There's no reason a codex published in the pages of WD and then made available for download as a PDF would have to have bad rules, bad fluff, and a bad army list simply because it was in WD.
No, you're right, there's not.
But I'm looking at precedence here. All of the recent GW white dwarf codices have sucked.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
I've seen your Codex.
I debate your better-written and 'balanced' part.
But yeah. More likely we'll get two sprues of five. They're not Grey Knights, they're closer to Tactical Marines in that regard.
29408
Post by: Melissia
Kanluwen wrote:I debate your better-written and 'balanced' part.
Then go on IGMB and do that. I need more input on it anyway.
26489
Post by: Revarien
With the changes that GW is announcing today with the resin/plastic hybrid stuff... I'm having an overbearing sense of foreboding on this topic :(
42123
Post by: redeyed
If SOB's do get a WD codex...going by everything GW has recently done several things will happen:
1. all Sister' bits will increase in price
2. White Dwarf will go up in price another 50p for the "special issue"
I swear...the resin thing was so promising until prices were jacked up for it (Aside from a few of the single models)
35783
Post by: Scarey Nerd
redeyed wrote:If SOB's do get a WD codex...going by everything GW has recently done several things will happen:
1. all Sister' bits will increase in price
2. White Dwarf will go up in price another 50p for the "special issue"
I swear...the resin thing was so promising until prices were jacked up for it (Aside from a few of the single models)
Hands up for a poll thread discussing how many months until GW customers refuse to buy from GW because they're "Desire for money : Desire for a good game" ratio is heavily weighted in a bad way?
42622
Post by: Mar
People say they won't pay but like another guy said in the resin thread these models are like crack to crack addicts to the majority of people who buy models.
42123
Post by: redeyed
oo your from Herts to Scarey 
I dont know..but Ive become very disenchanted with them over the past couple of years.
I'm so glad I have all the sisters models I need, so will only have to buy the WD (assuming rumour is true) and eventually the new codex.
16387
Post by: Manchu
So . . . no SoBs on the Citadel Finecast list. Wat?
42622
Post by: Mar
I said in the Necron thread that because no resin models were coming it was a potential sign that necrons were on the way but now that you have made me notice Sisters were getting the same treatment I am quite confused...
41311
Post by: ashikenshin
Maybe they thought that there was no need to repackage the metal/finecast sisters when they will be getting plastic models soon.
26
Post by: carmachu
*sigh* it could be very good or bad, depending....
42622
Post by: Mar
carmachu wrote:*sigh* it could be very good or bad, depending....
This sums it up perfectly.
43067
Post by: S'jet
I hate reading rumors. Because the majority of the time i end up dissapointed, or frustrated. Think i'd rather be oblivious, and be super happy when i see the advanced orders section of the GW site.
So why am i reading this right? =p Gotta love waiting games.
26489
Post by: Revarien
This was posted in a different thread and due to the turn of events on this thread, I found it relevant...
There are 2 slots that say "CLASSIFIED" on them... Necrons or Sisters you think? Or just eluding to the 2 chapters of space marines that were expunged from records? I don't know anymore.... GW has stopped making sense to me.
17901
Post by: Vhalyar
Mar wrote:I said in the Necron thread that because no resin models were coming it was a potential sign that necrons were on the way but now that you have made me notice Sisters were getting the same treatment I am quite confused...
Because they're both supposed to be coming in short order.
Revarien wrote:This was posted in a different thread and due to the turn of events on this thread, I found it relevant...
All of the pictures are grouped based on army affiliation, having a single Necron or Sister wouldn't make sense with this arrangement.
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Post by: Manchu
In one case, the "classified" box is situated between 40k ranges and in the other case it's situated between WHFB lines. I'd say the first is either Necron or SoB unless the DE are up for another wave yet. The other I'd think is Fantasy, maybe another TK model (are all the Lords and Heroes now accounted for? it can't be) or even an Ogre character?
42622
Post by: Mar
I keep looking at it for some sort of pattern beyond the fact that one section is 40k and another is fantasy, is it alphabetical? or something else? most likely no pattern at all and I am just desperate for something new...
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Post by: Kroothawk
First one probably Wracks/Grotesques, second one probably Ushabti with bows.
42622
Post by: Mar
Of course both are behind Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings, pattern solved thank you! So I guess this poster has nothing to do with sisters or necrons.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
And here I was dusting off Inquisitor Lok
37505
Post by: Nagashek
Oh WOW! Look at all the beautiful TAU models in that poster, they're so... wait, wha?
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Mar wrote:Of course both are behind Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings, pattern solved thank you! So I guess this poster has nothing to do with sisters or necrons.
It is a hint that new Sororitas and Necron miniatures are so close that repackaging old ones isn't economic.
Tau get these:
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
and are rumoured to get a release after Necrons and Sororitas.
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Post by: Manchu
Kroothawk wrote:It is a hint that new Sororitas and Necron miniatures are so close that repackaging old ones isn't economic.
So we hope.
37505
Post by: Nagashek
Kroothawk wrote:Mar wrote:Of course both are behind Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings, pattern solved thank you! So I guess this poster has nothing to do with sisters or necrons.
It is a hint that new Sororitas and Necron miniatures are so close that repackaging old ones isn't economic.
Tau get these:
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
and are rumoured to get a release after Necrons and Sororitas.
And oh I DO so hope that for the third time in a row we'll get our army book right before the new edition happens... 
42622
Post by: Mar
Kroothawk wrote:Mar wrote:Of course both are behind Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings, pattern solved thank you! So I guess this poster has nothing to do with sisters or necrons.
It is a hint that new Sororitas and Necron miniatures are so close that repackaging old ones isn't economic.
Tau get these:
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
and are rumoured to get a release after Necrons and Sororitas.
Your right again sorry its late ^^ not thinking straight!
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Post by: kenzosan
Nagashek wrote:Oh WOW! Look at all the beautiful TAU models in that poster, they're so... wait, wha?
what scares me is, thats not even half the eldar. halequin sc, avatar, autarch. thats it?! really!? btw, the 1 clasified might be celestine. the only sister sc.
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Post by: Pouncey
It occurs to me that out of the 39 WH40k minis shown on the Finecast poster, only 7-8 are not special characters or HQ choices.
-Zoanthrope
-Hive Guard
-Genestealer Broodlord
-Painboy
-Death Jester
-some sort of Harlequin
-and possibly whatever that Dark Eldar to the right of Lelith is that I don't recognize.
So I'm really hoping that that Classified thing is a Sisters character. Saint Celestine would make a lot of sense. Deep down, I know it's probably just a blank placeholder to fill out the chart, or worse, but a man can dream though, a man can dream...
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Post by: Manchu
Hmm. Resin cast of the current Celestine or ... A brand new sculpt? If you have to dream, dream big.
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Post by: Worglock
Pouncey wrote:
-and possibly whatever that Dark Eldar to the right of Lelith is that I don't recognize.
that's Urien Rakarth
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Post by: kenzosan
Manchu wrote:Hmm. Resin cast of the current Celestine or ... A brand new sculpt? If you have to dream, dream big.
heck yea! 
well, going by past examples, the apocalypse rules that have classified pictures, its a model not available yet. so im almost definitely wrong. but i got my hopes and dreams.
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Post by: S'jet
Manchu wrote:Hmm. Resin cast of the current Celestine or ... A brand new sculpt? If you have to dream, dream big.
I doubt they will resculpt Celestine, as that model is already hott.
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Post by: Mar
I do not believe it is a sisters model the two classifieds are right next to the tomb kings and dark Eldar and most likely models yet to be released for those armies. No background art exists for sisters yet (you know the stuff they put on all the new box releases). Both necrons and sisters have had nothing redone for them at all, a fair assumption is that they are coming either in the next wave of 'finecast' or this is a confirmation that they are next which is what I hope.
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Post by: Just Dave
I personally think you're looking to much into the classified thing, I don't think they're hiding anything there, I just think GW are doing it for... almost thematic reasons. You know, the ol' purged by the inquisition thing, just to add character I guess.
It's a bugger to describe, but I don't think there's anything behind the classified boxes.
42622
Post by: Mar
Like I said if anything they are not sisters or Necron what is perhaps important about the poster and more so the list of metal to resin is the lack of Necron or Sister models.
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Post by: Manchu
Just Dave wrote:It's a bugger to describe, but I don't think there's anything behind the classified boxes.
"Oi lads -- we're two short of the sixty we need for a six by ten spread on the poster."
"Bloody hell. I suppose just put on some black boxes that say 'classified.' The Inquisition got 'em, init?"
"Brilliant!"
"Reckon this will wind anyone up about new models or anything?"
"Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah."
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Post by: Pouncey
Manchu wrote:Just Dave wrote:It's a bugger to describe, but I don't think there's anything behind the classified boxes.
"Oi lads -- we're two short of the sixty we need for a six by ten spread on the poster."
"Bloody hell. I suppose just put on some black boxes that say 'classified.' The Inquisition got 'em, init?"
"Brilliant!"
"Reckon this will wind anyone up about new models or anything?"
"Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah."
Now now, there's no need to ruin hopeful speculation with perfectly reasonable... err, reasoning.
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Manchu wrote:Just Dave wrote:It's a bugger to describe, but I don't think there's anything behind the classified boxes.
"Oi lads -- we're two short of the sixty we need for a six by ten spread on the poster."
"Bloody hell. I suppose just put on some black boxes that say 'classified.' The Inquisition got 'em, init?"
"Brilliant!"
"Reckon this will wind anyone up about new models or anything?"
"Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah. They won't notice amidst the embargo, price rises and non-announcement announcement of Finecast!"
Basically, yes. Although I have edited it for you so people find something to really hate on...
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Post by: kenzosan
Mar wrote:Like I said if anything they are not sisters or Necron what is perhaps important about the poster and more so the list of metal to resin is the lack of Necron or Sister models.
the storm raven pic didnt exist in the ba codex, gk hav inquisitor valeria, that means de and tomb kings have something missing given gw's past. so if you have either codex and can name the sc that doesnt have a picture, you know the classified
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Post by: ceorron
kenzosan wrote:Mar wrote:Like I said if anything they are not sisters or Necron what is perhaps important about the poster and more so the list of metal to resin is the lack of Necron or Sister models.
the storm raven pic didnt exist in the ba codex, gk hav inquisitor valeria, that means de and tomb kings have something missing given gw's past. so if you have either codex and can name the sc that doesnt have a picture, you know the classified
Yeah it is more than a coincidence that this is the case. Look at where the 'classified' ones appear. Straight after DE and straight after tomb kings. Both are on a considerable model release schedule now.
That means there is most likely a character 'behind' each of those classified signs.
It is a bit OT but i'm going to guess that the one to the right of the classified for the DE is a heamonculus (or however it is spelled). That makes the character maybe the mandrake special character, or lady malyse or maybe the baron SC.
I'm thinking maybe the Baron on the sky board as this will allow GW to guff about how much better fine craft is than metal (and thusly justify them taking more of your money).
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Post by: ashikenshin
The hellion character would make sense since he wouldn't be balancing the metal skyboard and his metal self on the flying stand ... like the horrible beastmaster
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Post by: Kroothawk
ghost21 says no to the WD Codex rumour:
You do know Sisters were originally a WD release......
But no, they will get a proper 'dex
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Post by: kenzosan
Kroothawk wrote:ghost21 says no to the WD Codex rumour:
You do know Sisters were originally a WD release......
But no, they will get a proper 'dex
YAY! had a bad day and its nice to have good news
42622
Post by: Mar
That doesn't mean it won't be a WD codex its just a set of conflicting rumours now and neither to particularly favour.
2583
Post by: Sister Stern
Is there a hint that what White Dwarf they would put the Sister Codex in? WD 377 has a small preview with no hints of Sisters, so 378 and beyond. The only good thing of this being a stop gap but also that SOB players will get a real codex in 6th edition and will have current rules that won't be "out of date" in 6 months. Gotta look on the bright side. 
42622
Post by: Mar
Sister Stern wrote:Is there a hint that what White Dwarf they would put the Sister Codex in? WD 377 has a small preview with no hints of Sisters, so 378 and beyond. The only good thing of this being a stop gap but also that SOB players will get a real codex in 6th edition and will have current rules that won't be "out of date" in 6 months. Gotta look on the bright side.
If a WD codex does happen then exactly this to be honest!
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Post by: Phototoxin
When is the next announcement.. basically if no sisters are announced before the price hike then I think I'll have to go dark eldar.
42622
Post by: Mar
I would not hold your breath for Sisters, I think the general consensus is that Necrons will come first. Before a WD codex though? I could not begin to guess.
11060
Post by: Phototoxin
hmm.. I'll wait until the end of this week... if there's no revelations it might be DEldar ordering time...
270
Post by: winterman
ghost21 says no to the WD Codex rumour:
Frankly I have no idea who ghost21 is or his track record. He's only just started spouting Necron rumors right? Curious why anyone beliveis him over BoK or yakface. I guess we'll see
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Post by: Revarien
winterman wrote:Frankly I have no idea who ghost21 is or his track record. He's only just started spouting Necron rumors right? Curious why anyone beliveis him over BoK or yakface. I guess we'll see
Ghost21 tends to mostly only post on warseer... but has a superb track record for models and news... but I don't think ghost ever does much in the way of rules. Ghost has been reporting on the sprues they have seen...
As far as everything else goes, Ghost hasn't stated that Necrons weren't first... in fact, I'm fairly certain they have said that Necrons were before sisters...
42622
Post by: Mar
winterman wrote:ghost21 says no to the WD Codex rumour:
Frankly I have no idea who ghost21 is or his track record. He's only just started spouting Necron rumors right? Curious why anyone beliveis him over BoK or yakface. I guess we'll see
The Yak and BoK rumours for Necrons also contradict ghost21 I think.
11060
Post by: Phototoxin
but weren sob being done after GK... stands to reason that they're out next unless they want to do GK/Xenos/Sob... but they did release the rest of the dark eldar... Sob wave 1 would be good.. also necrons would be better for christmas... the ideal starter army...
42622
Post by: Mar
Phototoxin wrote:but weren sob being done after GK... stands to reason that they're out next unless they want to do GK/Xenos/Sob... but they did release the rest of the dark eldar... Sob wave 1 would be good.. also necrons would be better for christmas... the ideal starter army...
Some of the Necron changes are quite dramatic I don't know how well they will be for a starter army plus I do not believe armies come out for Christmas. I think GW had said or rumour suggested that Sisters were started 6 months after Grey knights, that still leaves time for the possibility of Necrons. Also the Necron rumours if rumours are an accurate depiction of progress (obviously they are not but still) more depth exists for the Necron information compared to Sisters.
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Post by: SabrX
Phototoxin wrote:but weren sob being done after GK... stands to reason that they're out next unless they want to do GK/Xenos/Sob... but they did release the rest of the dark eldar... Sob wave 1 would be good.. also necrons would be better for christmas... the ideal starter army...
It's also logical that Necrons comes out after Tomb Kings. Necrons is the oldest codex followed by Sisters. There's also a few hints that Sisters are coming out later this year.
I'd prefer a proper codex rather than a rush temporary one. The PDF was awful, stirring a lot of confusion whether allies are legal are not. GW said they are still legal as long as the player has the hard copy, which isn't printed anymore. GK codex set the precedence that allies will most likely not be included in the Sisters of Battle codex, but that's a whole different topic.
Sisters are still in limbo having a cheap PDF codex and direct order blisters rather than box sets. It cost a lot to just make a simple 10-girl squad with special weapons and transport. Let's hope some good will come out of this by Fall.
41472
Post by: kenzosan
Mar wrote:That doesn't mean it won't be a WD codex its just a set of conflicting rumours now and neither to particularly favour.
why would you destroy my hopes and dream!!!
31013
Post by: SpitfireArsonist
Phototoxin wrote:but weren sob being done after GK... stands to reason that they're out next unless they want to do GK/Xenos/Sob... but they did release the rest of the dark eldar... Sob wave 1 would be good.. also necrons would be better for christmas... the ideal starter army...
I heard late 2011 for a SoB release today.
Also, I'm pretty sure they won't be releasing anything near Christmas. IIRC, GW hasn't had any major releases around Christmas, or in December for that matter. Don't quote me on either of these bits of information though...
270
Post by: winterman
Revarien wrote:winterman wrote:Frankly I have no idea who ghost21 is or his track record. He's only just started spouting Necron rumors right? Curious why anyone beliveis him over BoK or yakface. I guess we'll see
Ghost21 tends to mostly only post on warseer... but has a superb track record for models and news... but I don't think ghost ever does much in the way of rules. Ghost has been reporting on the sprues they have seen...
As far as everything else goes, Ghost hasn't stated that Necrons weren't first... in fact, I'm fairly certain they have said that Necrons were before sisters...
Fair enough. Thanks for the info. I lurk warseer and know of many of the rumormongers there, but he seemed to pop up out of nowhere. Couldn't recall a single rumor of his from the past (several come to mind for BoK and yak). Not one to bag on a rumormonger though, just curious.
11060
Post by: Phototoxin
SpitfireArsonist wrote:Phototoxin wrote:but weren sob being done after GK... stands to reason that they're out next unless they want to do GK/Xenos/Sob... but they did release the rest of the dark eldar... Sob wave 1 would be good.. also necrons would be better for christmas... the ideal starter army...
I heard late 2011 for a SoB release today.
Also, I'm pretty sure they won't be releasing anything near Christmas. IIRC, GW hasn't had any major releases around Christmas, or in December for that matter. Don't quote me on either of these bits of information though...
I more meant around november... something in Aug/Sept and something in november...
42622
Post by: Mar
kenzosan wrote:Mar wrote:That doesn't mean it won't be a WD codex its just a set of conflicting rumours now and neither to particularly favour.
why would you destroy my hopes and dream!!!
Because I am here for realism!!!
34899
Post by: Eumerin
Apologies for dredging this thing up again, but apparently someone over at Warseer got hold of the latest White Dwarf and noticed something relevant on the back cover -
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306309&page=5
Second post down, by Mi'chal. Click the thumbnail and check the lower left-hand corner of it.
The text (bestiary!?) is somewhat... odd... which would ordinarily be a flag for a possible fake. But Mi'chal also provided four pictures from inside the magazine that he posted over in the Storm of Magic thread on Warseer. So the general concensus is that this is almost certainly legit, and the weird phrasing is the product of extremely laziness on GW's part.
If true, well...
Can't say I'm happy about it. I think it's a bad move on GW's part (then again, they've been seemingly making a lot of those lately...), and I also think that it doesn't fit with the established pattern that they've been following over the past couple of years.
33033
Post by: kenshin620
Hmmm I smell +10 more pages of posts soon. This will be interesting
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
I zoomed in quite a bit on PS---either that entire page is legit or the entire page is a fake----as it looks seamless *. I'm going with legit.
As far as bestiary goes----the old Heresy Sisters of Silence had several pieces of art showing hounds (for witch hunting you see). Perhaps they are bringing back some of that old school fluff---as that's been their MO lately.
*I can tell by the pixels
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Post by: Revarien
First: I'm horribly disappointed.
Second: I'm not angry per say... I just don't know what to think about this info... I mean... is it in addition to the current dex? Is it showing us what is to come, but they don't have the printed book finalized? I mean, I know the Black Library is still cranking out fluff due in October, and the original James Swallow book has gone to reprint... but they wouldn't go through the trouble to put them to a WD with new models, only to Squat the whole army, would they?
Third: If they would go through all that - why? It makes no sense... but GW had stopped making sense a while back.
Depending on how this goes: While I won't quit the game, I may stop buying new stuff from GW... Still voting with my wallet... as I tend to buy a shat-ton new from them.
**ADDENDUM** The other option is that if this is a preview: Then they really need to express that early on in that magazine article. Playing sisters is the most fun I've had in this game cept for a few Necron games here or there... I'm just so damned conflicted, lol.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
it looks legit, but it feels wrong somehow... I've seen that exact artwork on the back end of WD before, maybe thats why it feels wrong to me...
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Revarien wrote:First: I'm horribly disappointed.
Second: I'm not angry per say... I just don't know what to think about this info... I mean... is it in addition to the current dex? Is it showing us what is to come, but they don't have the printed book finalized? I mean, I know the Black Library is still cranking out fluff due in October, and the original James Swallow book has gone to reprint... but they wouldn't go through the trouble to put them to a WD with new models, only to Squat the whole army, would they?
No. Blood Angels got a WD dex before they got their full dex.
Third: If they would go through all that - why? It makes no sense... but GW had stopped making sense a while back.
Depending on how this goes: While I won't quit the game, I may stop buying new stuff from GW... Still voting with my wallet... as I tend to buy a shat-ton new from them.
Putting it bluntly: if we really are as close as keeps getting hinted at for 6th edition, and we really are going to see the fabled Sisters v. CSM starter box--it might simply be that we're seeing the WD codex which will have a large 'preview' of units to come.
26489
Post by: Revarien
Kanluwen wrote:Putting it bluntly: if we really are as close as keeps getting hinted at for 6th edition, and we really are going to see the fabled Sisters v. CSM starter box--it might simply be that we're seeing the WD codex which will have a large 'preview' of units to come.
Yeah, you got this in before my edit... I'm more conflicted then anything: I don't want to wait the 'however many years' it took the Blood Angels to get their dex after the WD dex... not to mention that makes my tourny army less likely to be playable (most tournies around here don't allow 'pdf's or WD or Citadel Journals).
34899
Post by: Eumerin
Revarien wrote:I'm more conflicted then anything.
I know the feeling, and I'm feeling somewhat the same. I like the Sisters and want more stuff. But at the same time, not like this.
Unfortunately, I'm also having to deal with Battlefront's "will they/won't they" approach to the FoW Bulge release that was (and hopefully still is...) scheduled for late this year. I don't need more army release uncertainty right now...
(amusingly enough, on the official Flames of War forums, whenever someone posts a rumor about Bulge being delayed *again*, one of the first things that pops up is a post from someone stating, "I wonder what Eumerin's going to say when he sees this?" )
41472
Post by: kenzosan
i call shenanigans. sisters need new models. its still the most expensive army, all f'ing metal. they didnt even finecast em.
34899
Post by: Eumerin
kenzosan wrote:i call shenanigans. sisters need new models. its still the most expensive army, all f'ing metal. they didnt even finecast em.
Like I said, the guy also posted a lot of pages from inside the magazine for Storm of Magic (it's in Warseers Storm of Magic thread in their Fantasy Rumors section). And AgeofEgos noted that the thumbnail is all one image (i.e. there's no cut and paste involved). If this is a fake, then he's gone to a LOT of effort. That's not to say that someone might not do such a thing. But it does make it more likely that he's legit.
One theory that's been suggested over there is that new figures will appear along with the WD codex, and it'll be GW's way of testing the viability of the new box of plastics. Why they'd feel a need to test that after DE and GK I don't know. But it's one theory.
42685
Post by: N'Ferno
....And suddenly a mighty ray of light broke through the clouds...Thunder filled the skies and a myriad of cherubs chanted : "The Cleansing is upon us! The Cleansing is upon us!"
17155
Post by: bhsman
Just gonna slip this in right here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwLzuOMpkFw
Carry on.
60
Post by: yakface
I always thought it sounded completely plausible, and I still don't understand the anger towards this at all (despite people explaining it to me).
There is no reason to assume the army is getting 'squatted' by this move, and in fact the opposite is true. If it were getting 'squatted' you wouldn't see any updates to the army list as well. Not to mention the fact that GW has said publicly that they are no longer 'squatting' any armies and since that time they haven't.
As I said before, this fits very similarly with what happened with the Blood Angels/Dark Angels. They were two army types that, at the time, were very similar to it made sense that the design work that went into writing the Dark Angels army list would allow a 'get you by' Blood Angels army list to be developed alongside it. In this case, there are likely to be a lot of similarities between how the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle army lists are structured (including sharing Inquisitorial units & character rules), so it makes sense that the design work that went into the Grey Knights army list can be similarly applied without too much effort into putting out a 'get you by' Sisters of Battle army list.
People seem to be assuming that a 'get you by' Sisters of Battle army list will naturally be less powerful than the existing codex, when you don't know that for sure. For example, the 'get you by' Blood Angels White Dwarf list was much better than the existing Blood Angels codex at the time, so there's no reason the same can't hold true here.
Most importantly, people are acting as though the publishing of this army list via White Dwarf suddenly changes when a new Sisters of Battle codex will be released. The fact is, GW releases new codexes to promote their new miniatures line. If they had a new line of SoB models to release, then they would be releasing the codex, simple as that. Regardless of whether or not this WD update is published, if the model line isn't ready for release, then it isn't ready for release. As I mentioned before, the SoB range is almost completely metal currently and besides the inquisitorial units and the Rhino/Immolator, it doesn't share models with any other current range. That means any redo of their miniature line was always going to be a huge undertaking...not quite on par with the complete reboot of the Dark Eldar range, but not too far behind. I know with good authority that it took over 3 years of work to design and sculpt the new Dark Eldar line, so if its going to take a while to get the SoB range done, then that's what its going to take. Whether or not the codex should be next means nothing compared to whether or not the miniature line is ready or not. If the time required to finish the miniature line means the release is still more than a year away, why not put out a 'get you by' army list so that you don't have two identical types of units in the game (Inquisitorial units) behaving completely differently depending on whether they came from the Grey Knights or Witch Hunters codex?
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Post by: bhsman
No offense meant to you, Yak. I just wonder how long until people claim in the future that Blood of Kittens was just copying info about a Sisters White Dwarf Codex that was already being discussed here or some other malarkey.
EDIT: And agreed on all counts.
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Post by: Mannahnin
Agree with the Yak. They did WD lists for BA and for Warriors of Chaos not too long before both of those got updated books. This is a good sign for the Sisters.
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Post by: Eumerin
The thing is, there's a perfectly good "get you by" codex out already. It's an independent codex in a book that doesn't include any other armies (unlike Angels of Death, which had two armies in one book). And if GW had thought that there were "terrabul! terrabul!" conflicts between WH and GK that needed to be corrected, then they should have issued the new WD codex the month after GK came out instead of waiting around. If the old WH codex causes some terrible crisis because it doesn't exactly match Matt Ward's latest masterpiece, then why didn't GW act like it and hurry it up? In short, if this is some "desperately needed" attempt to bring GK and WH models into line, why the leisurely amble toward the goal line of getting the thing published?
Finally, while Blood Angels may have been a good WD Codex (I have no idea if it was or not), Warriors of Chaos was another matter entirely.
I'm leaning more toward "Sisters test run", myself, despite how absurd the idea is.
But then again, every other idea that I've heard strikes me as even more so.
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Post by: kenzosan
my only complaint has and will remain to be that sisters are all metal and are the most expensive army to build. a wd codex only keeps this complaint alive.
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Post by: yakface
Eumerin wrote:The thing is, there's a perfectly good "get you by" codex out already. It's an independent codex in a book that doesn't include any other armies (unlike Angels of Death, which had two armies in one book). And if GW had thought that there were "terrabul! terrabul!" conflicts between WH and GK that needed to be corrected, then they should have issued the new WD codex the month after GK came out instead of waiting around. If the old WH codex causes some terrible crisis because it doesn't exactly match Matt Ward's latest masterpiece, then why didn't GW act like it and hurry it up? In short, if this is some "desperately needed" attempt to bring GK and WH models into line, why the leisurely amble toward the goal line of getting the thing published?
Finally, while Blood Angels may have been a good WD Codex (I have no idea if it was or not), Warriors of Chaos was another matter entirely.
I'm leaning more toward "Sisters test run", myself, despite how absurd the idea is.
But then again, every other idea that I've heard strikes me as even more so.
I think you're a bit off on your editions. Blood Angels and Dark Angles did not share a codex when the Blood Angels 'get you by' army list was released in WD. The codex (like the Space Wolves) referenced back to the basic Space Marine codex (which by that point had actually been updated once already).
The point is Witch Hunters is not a perfectly good stand alone codex. It has a bunch of wonky 3rd edition rules in it, it has ally rules that are completely outdated and confusing to anyone not familiar with what's going on with the 40K scene, and they contain units that have exactly the same name as those in the Grey Knights codex, but with wildly different rules and abilities.
So regardless of how well the codex currently plays it is not a perfectly good stand-alone codex because it fails in all those areas of clarity and accessibility.
kenzosan wrote:my only complaint has and will remain to be that sisters are all metal and are the most expensive army to build. a wd codex only keeps this complaint alive.
And the release of the army list in White Dwarf neither helps nor hurts that problem...it is completely independent of it. Do you think for a second GW has a heap of plastic SoB models ready to release but instead has decided to shelve them so they can put out a 'get you by' White Dwarf army list?
Of course not. In fact, if anything, a White Dwarf army list shows that they ARE working on the army, and based on recent history that means a TON of new plastic models. Unfortunately, sculpting a bunch of new plastic models (along with all the other plastic models that every other release gets) obviously takes a long time, which is why an interim codex bringing some of the rules up to date with those in the Grey Knights codex makes a heck of a lot of sense.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I prefer the metal (hopefully soon to be finecast?) miniatures. The plastic ones are bound to be more heroic scale garbage rather than the well proportioned beauties they are now.
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Post by: evilsponge
Wow this sucks
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Post by: fox-light713
chaos0xomega wrote:I prefer the metal (hopefully soon to be finecast?) miniatures. The plastic ones are bound to be more heroic scale garbage rather than the well proportioned beauties they are now.
I take it you've never seen Plastic Warhammer Fantasy models? I have some wood elves and they are proportionally smaller than a Guardsman, SM, and even a SoB.
I would prefer plastic over metal any day, its a lot easier to work with. Anyways this also brings up the question as may have already stated, "Will the WD article bring new plastic boxed sets with it? and will it be with the first half with the fluff or the second half with the rules?"
Either way I do hope it dose bring new plastic boxed sets regardless.
Eumerin wrote:Revarien wrote:I'm more conflicted then anything.
I know the feeling, and I'm feeling somewhat the same. I like the Sisters and want more stuff. But at the same time, not like this.
Same here, I still hoping it will be a book codex and not a WD codex.
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Post by: Clang
The lack of Finecast SoB recasts is surely also an indication that plastics (and new Finecast models) are being worked on - GW will only go to the bother of FineCasting existing stuff they expect to stay as is for the forseeable future.
I agree with Yak - this will be a temp codex designed to work with the existing model line and to remove post-GK confusion with the old codex. Good news, Sisters - a real codex is coming. But don't hold your breath, could stilll be a year or so away...
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
OK, hold on. Someone clear this up for me: If they release this WD codex, will they release plastic models with it? Or will we have to wait a couple of years until the real codex comes out? Or will the real codex come out just a few months later, begging the question as to why bother putting out a WD one in the first place. As an interim thing I can understand, but only if models are released with it and if the actual codex wasn't going to come out for a while. None of these scenarios make me particularly happy, but.
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Post by: yakface
Scarey Nerd wrote:OK, hold on. Someone clear this up for me: If they release this WD codex, will they release plastic models with it? Or will we have to wait a couple of years until the real codex comes out? If the latter... I'm not best pleased.
They release codexes to support their model releases. If they have models to release then there would be a proper codex. Since they're releasing the codex in White Dwarf you can safely assume that new models are still being worked on.
Again, the models are what drives GW's new releases, not codexes. So when they've got the model line ready to go they will release a proper codex. Until that time, they appear to be putting out a 'get you by' WD codex to bring the existing 3rd edition rules more into the existing current 5th edition game.
While I can certainly understand people being unhappy at having to wait for new models to be finished, again, a new army list in White Dwarf would have absolutely no bearing on when those models would be released. As always, they will be released when the line is actually finished and ready for release.
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
All the rumours were pointing towards a November-ish release, perhaps early 2012. Assuming this kind of date for the codex remains unchanged, I still don't really get why we players need a WD update. I thought they'd be too busy pushing their FOTM army etc to devote space to an army that isn't actually getting a codex yet. Although, the use of the words "Part 1" might indicate that we won't get a new codex at all, they'll just do 2 parts in WD and then release models with the second, and then perhaps a year later they'll make those 2 articles into a codex to extort maximum cash from us. Hey ho.
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Post by: Ventusgermany
I am very happy with this.
This way I don´t "have" to buy a lot of new miniatures yet, (assuming we only get the codex and no new minis)
and can field my SoB again in a competitive way now, and not just in 1,5 years.
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Post by: Slinky
Cautious thumbs up  to this news - let's wait and see what the "codex" looks like.
Of course, this will be the final death knell for allies, so my combined IG/Sisters army will have to split into 2, with painful results for my wallet...
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Post by: Grenat
I sincerely hope that this release not going to be a big stampede for the sisters ...
I am very curious about how many pages of these WDs will be for sistas.
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Post by: reds8n
Scarey Nerd wrote:All the rumours were pointing towards a November-ish release,
I would politely suggest that is a better candidate for the Necrons to get a codex, giving them a nice chance to preview them at GD UK.. much like they did with the successful Dark Eldar launch.
A full on SoB codex -- with new plastic and finecast models -- is still very much on the cards, indeed possibly even for next year IMO -- but I am dubious in the extreme about the idea of them being in any starter box set for any new edition.
Oh, and for the benefit of those work blocked/similar :
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Post by: Daba
Disappointed. It's as if that army is for second class customers.
If anything, Grey Knights are the ones that should have had a WD dex, since they were a half baked force before. Same with the Blood Angels, as the only thing separating them now over the WD dex did is piles of junk concepts.
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Post by: thesearmsarerob
On the plus side it may mean a white dwarf with some actual content too!
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
It's all good releasing a codex through the magazine, but the figures are so hard to find. They are direct-only, you can't pick them up in the shops which is just infuriating.
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Post by: angelshade00
Aaaah so yet another Marine-ally army set to get updated before the totally disappointed Necrons... Yes, that should make players happy.
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Post by: gr1m_dan
I'm looking forward to this update, hopefully it will allow us to field some of the decent CC units without dying a horrible death.
At the moment I would say most SoB armies are pretty much the same!!! From a semi-competitive view anyway. Battle Sisters in Rhino/Immolators w/ Seraphim x how ever many you can get in for points.
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Post by: Padre
Howard A Treesong wrote:It's all good releasing a codex through the magazine, but the figures are so hard to find. They are direct-only, you can't pick them up in the shops which is just infuriating.
One word...
eBay!!! 
You'll get them there for nowhere near the price you' ld pay through GW (especially if GW Australia...)
Padre^.
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Post by: Xelkireth
To all the model naysayers, I may be wrong, but didn't Jes Goodwin specifically say the sisters were getting done in plastic?
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Post by: Grim.Badger
I wonder if this has any connection to Jes Goodwin (or whoever it was) saying that they were having problems with the plastics? Maybe the Codex was originally drafted in to be released at this point but because of the problems with the models they've shifted it over to the next release year or something and done a WD codex to, as Yak says, tidy up the rules in the meantime?
I hope this "release" goes well for them and they sell a stack of WDs, then we might see more army lists including ones that wouldn't be variable enough to support a full codex - who wouldn't like to see full army lists for the individual Chaos Legions? Or specialised Carftworlds? Maybe even more Tau Allies or whole new Races - sure I'm daydreaming, but why not :p
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Post by: thenoobbomb
I hope they will be released in plastic!
Or shouldnt I, because that would mean I will spend even more mony on more armies... dillema.
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Post by: Xelkireth
I want them in plastic... Very badly... If for nothing else than the sick and twisted conversions that will be done. Sisters bent over a Dark Eldar pleasure barge what?
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Post by: yakface
Scarey Nerd wrote:All the rumours were pointing towards a November-ish release, perhaps early 2012. Assuming this kind of date for the codex remains unchanged, I still don't really get why we players need a WD update. I thought they'd be too busy pushing their FOTM army etc to devote space to an army that isn't actually getting a codex yet. Although, the use of the words "Part 1" might indicate that we won't get a new codex at all, they'll just do 2 parts in WD and then release models with the second, and then perhaps a year later they'll make those 2 articles into a codex to extort maximum cash from us. Hey ho.
From all indications it looks as thought this is following the exact same format as when the Blood Angel list was released in WD. The first month they published the background and bestiary (the rules/descriptions for the units) and then the next month they released the army list.
And again, Games Workshop releases full codexes to support their miniature releases. If they had new Sisters miniatures ready to release they would be releasing a full-fledged codex. While I suppose there is always a chance that they might be throwing out the odd new Sisters miniature, the last two army updates they did via White Dwarf (Warriors of Chaos & Blood Angels) did not coincide with any miniature releases, so I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.
But of course in the long term Sisters will be plastic. That is GW's main strategy now: make as many plastic kits as they can manage to. So when they are ready I'm sure a giant chunk of the Sisters range will indeed be plastic just like every army release these days.
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Post by: Marthike
Which WD is that? august? september?
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Post by: fox-light713
Grim.Badger wrote:I wonder if this has any connection to Jes Goodwin (or whoever it was) saying that they were having problems with the plastics? Maybe the Codex was originally drafted in to be released at this point but because of the problems with the models they've shifted it over to the next release year or something and done a WD codex to, as Yak says, tidy up the rules in the meantime?
I hope this "release" goes well for them and they sell a stack of WDs, then we might see more army lists including ones that wouldn't be variable enough to support a full codex - who wouldn't like to see full army lists for the individual Chaos Legions? Or specialised Carftworlds? Maybe even more Tau Allies or whole new Races - sure I'm daydreaming, but why not :p
The rumors with the problems are very old by now, within the last couple of months there were rumor posts with descriptions of the SoB on sprews. The most noteable one is the was by Sexy Camera which is linked off of the warseer SoB rumor summery thread here - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306309
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Post by: AdeptSister
Argh!! I just noticed that the Image said "First part" of the SOB codex. That means you will need at least two WDs for the full thing. It looks like the first one will be the background and fluff and the next one will be the crunch...
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Post by: Kroothawk
First part WD August, so second part seems to be September.
BA WD Codex had one or two new releases (or at least rereleases).
With all the talk abut the details of the 5 Sororitas Plastic box and the Priest plastic box, it would be weird not to see those.
Still not happy with a WD Codex for the second to last 3rd edition army. Was hoping for a fake, but M'ichael posted to many pics to prove he actually has the real WD July.
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Post by: MadCowCrazy
Hmm, is it a bad sign that I'm beginning to look forwards to this WD dex? Does this mean I've basically given up? Surrendered my soul to the will of GW?
Entered a life so pathetic it can be compared to someone who has to fake orgasm when masturbating just to get a tiny fragment of satisfaction?
From the picture I get the impression there wont be any rules in the August issue, just fluff and such and then the rules in the Sep one.
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Post by: Alpharius
angelshade00 wrote:Aaaah so yet another Marine-ally army set to get updated before the totally disappointed Necrons... Yes, that should make players happy.
Whoa!
This is taking Marine Hate a bit too far, don't you think?
"Allies" are long gone these days, by the way...
Anyway, I know what they mean, but it is still a bit odd to hear that next month we'll get the SoB 'background' and.... 'bestiary'!
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Post by: Grim.Badger
fox-light713 wrote:The rumors with the problems are very old by now, within the last couple of months there were rumor posts with descriptions of the SoB on sprews. The most noteable one is the was by Sexy Camera which is linked off of the warseer SoB rumor summery thread here - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306309
But finished sprues doesn't mean they've had enough time to run up a decent enough stock for a release 
IMO if they did really have problems with the plastics, the safest thing to do from a commercial standpoint would have been to make an early decision to shift the main release to another release year - that way the company is safe from embarrasment whether the sprues end up being ready on time or not. Like Yak said though, something was needed to sort out the Codex post GK and the sensible approach if the Minis weren't ready yet, or they thought there was a chance they wouldn't be ready, would be a WD codex - that way people aren't too upset that a rules change isn't accompanied by minis. Remember these things will have been planned months and months ago so would probably tie in well with the rumours of problems with the casts IMO.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I like the idea of splitting the codex into fluff and rules. I can buy just the rules.
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Post by: BuFFo
Yeah! GW has a wonderful history of releasing WD non codex armies (or taking codex armies and sticking them IN WD) and supporting them...
Genestealer Cult
Kroot Mercs
Zombie Pirates
Harlequins
and I am sure I am missing a metric ton more...
Yeah... Except for Blood Angels, which is a Marine army, this track record of WD armies either getting SQUATED or absorbed into other codices isn't looking too well for Sisters...
During 8th edition... "But my Sisters are in this 5th edition White Dwarf!", "Sorry kid, no White Dwarf armies allowed in this tournament. Frank's been trying to get his Kroot mercs in here since 2006."
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Chapter Approved is different to this SoB mook.
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Post by: yevix
I think this is great, firstly sisters of battle shouldn't even have a codex (neither should grey knight and the other space marine books but that's another story) and the fact that they release it in WD makes sense, if it sells well and lots of people buy sisters of battle... then they could easily release a new codex with the new edition - ALSO remember that these WD articles wont be the same as kroot etc...SoB are popular and will get the respect they deserve even if its a WD article..
I think this gives GW awesome freedom to express themselves,s they could be pumping out new list and armies in the WD every month seeing what people like and dont like, testing out new models and sculpting methods etc..(and popularity of it all.)
good stuff.
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Post by: Brother SRM
angelshade00 wrote:Aaaah so yet another Marine-ally army set to get updated before the totally disappointed Necrons... Yes, that should make players happy.
Sisters have an older codex than Necrons, don't even have a plastic troops choice kit, and won't be able to ally with Marines or anybody else. Quit your whining, it's a White Dwarf codex for god's sake.
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Post by: yakface
Kilkrazy wrote:I like the idea of splitting the codex into fluff and rules. I can buy just the rules.
Sorry to ruin your fun, but if its like the BA release (which it will be), then the rules AND description will be found in part 1 and then the army list will be found in part 2.
So yeah, you'll have to buy both issues to play the army. Of course, they also quickly released the BA army list as a PDF, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see that again!
BuFFo wrote:Yeah! GW has a wonderful history of releasing WD non codex armies (or taking codex armies and sticking them IN WD) and supporting them...
Genestealer Cult
Kroot Mercs
Zombie Pirates
Harlequins
and I am sure I am missing a metric ton more...
Yeah... Except for Blood Angels, which is a Marine army, this track record of WD armies either getting SQUATED or absorbed into other codices isn't looking too well for Sisters...
During 8th edition... "But my Sisters are in this 5th edition White Dwarf!", "Sorry kid, no White Dwarf armies allowed in this tournament. Frank's been trying to get his Kroot mercs in here since 2006."
So you're going to assume that because some armies that were introduced in White Dwarf nearly 20 years ago but never actually got their own codex are somehow more relevant compared to the Warriors of Chaos and Blood Angels WD army lists which are actually relevant to the existing game (in that they both had an existing codex/army book at one point but were long overdue for an update when they got their WD army list)?
That fairly ridiculous. GW has been stupid about a great many things but since roughly 2008 they've been pretty consistent in their tone about 'squatting' armies. For a while they got overzealous with their rules and created a great many sub army lists (like the Eye of Terror codex & Kroot Mercs) without thinking that...gee...players might actually want all those army lists supported with each edition of the game moving forward, something that couldn't feasibly be done with their resources.
Well, those games designers are now no longer with the company and since they had to jettison those smaller sub-army lists they have publicly stated that they will not be squatting any more existing armies, and there has been absolutely no indication that this commitment has changed.
Again, if SoB were being 'squatted' then they wouldn't even bother making a WD army list for them!
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Post by: Kevin949
chaos0xomega wrote:it looks legit, but it feels wrong somehow... I've seen that exact artwork on the back end of WD before, maybe thats why it feels wrong to me...
Probably because that image is from a codex: vampire counts book?
1
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Post by: SagesStone
yevix wrote:I think this gives GW awesome freedom to express themselves,s they could be pumping out new list and armies in the WD every month seeing what people like and dont like, testing out new models and sculpting methods etc..(and popularity of it all.)
good stuff.
Didn't they used to do this then smashed the idea in the face with an axe? I'm not all that fond of the idea of having to even buy WD to keep playing my army, the rules as is seem fine at least for the way I play them. I'd rather them get new models than just new rules, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.
yevix wrote:firstly sisters of battle shouldn't even have a codex
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Post by: AlexHolker
yakface wrote:Of course, they also quickly released the BA army list as a PDF, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see that again!
I'd expect so:
One month ago, Blood of Kittens wrote:I want to confirm for everyone that the Sisters new “book” will be coming out sometime this year (most likely before the Necron release). There is more– SoB will be White Dwarf only release stretched over two issues, with a online PDF by the end of the year. I had reported this possibility (in a cryptic matter before) on BoLS, so this is a confirmation of said rumor. Cruddace will be the author for PDF as well. No word on new sculpts, but my bet is on only resin recast of existing models. As for the rules I have nothing to report as of yet, but look for at least two ecclesiastical characters from the fluff/past to appear in the new dex.
Since they got the two-part WD codex before Necrons bit right it's likely that they got the PDF version, the author and the two Ecclesiarchial characters bit right as well.
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Post by: Mannahnin
Scarey Nerd wrote:OK, hold on. Someone clear this up for me: If they release this WD codex, will they release plastic models with it? Or will we have to wait a couple of years until the real codex comes out?
As always, a real codex is released to support a bunch of new models. That's how it works. They don't make new models for a WD army list.
Scarey Nerd wrote:Or will the real codex come out just a few months later, begging the question as to why bother putting out a WD one in the first place. As an interim thing I can understand, but only if models are released with it and if the actual codex wasn't going to come out for a while. None of these scenarios make me particularly happy, but.
Yak did a good job explaining how out of date and difficult to use the 3rd ed (most recent) book is. The release of the GK codex, replacing and eliminating the problems of the Daemonhunters dex, makes good timing for GW to also clean up the lingering issues with the Witchhunters dex.
A WD list also serves as tangible evidence to existing Sisters owners/players that GW has not forgotten them, and that a proper update is on the horizon. I expect GW hopes those players will dig their Sisters armies out of the closet and get excited about them again, so that they'll be primed and ready for new goodies when the new models and real codex are released. Players busting out their old Sisters armies may also serve as word-of-mouth marketing to other players, either exposing them to the army for the first time, or reminding them of the stuff they always liked about Sisters. Many players over the years may have been interested in the army, but decided not to build it because of the limited range of metal models, or the length of time it's been since the book was updated. If those players are reminded about their interest in the army, then provided with nice new plastics and a fresh new army book in a year's time- again, that translates to more sales.
That last paragraph is just speculation; I'm not actually part of GW Marketing, but it's an example of how/why this can make sense from that perspective.
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Post by: Grot 6
Yes, basicly.
They did this to the Blood Angels after keeping them locked int he gimp box for so long, it worked well once,so why not try agood thing.
This way it generates interest, again... and then gives people the allusion that they are getting something. The Codex books are probibly a sales gimmick to try to generate sales for the WD shlock.
Gets you buy codex to keep you focused on buying, then they pull out the stops with flyers, and axillury stuff later on.
Smart move GW. Its about time with the continuous kicks to the low hanging fruit you've been administering with love.
I remember seeing the photos of the sprues of the plastics here a while back, someone know if those are in fact the real deal?
As for the WD/ Plastics question- NO, it means that you get what you get- a starter, gets you by codex that people can play thier Sisters with, without having to wait the obligatory 4-6 months later.
I see it as needed, anyway with the "New " ways of GW not wanting to tell you whats coming out until the last minute. It keeps the interest, and keeps thier silly play in place while not looking like a bad guy.
I see it as a happy medium between saying "Sorry about being peckish about the news, heres something to whet your interest for Sisters..."
good deal, either way. At least its some news....
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Post by: BuFFo
The memories of many of you are so short.
If the Sisters pamphlet codex has any new units in it, don't bother converting anything, because after a few years, a la kroot mercs, you will be forgotten.
And no, I am not dumping on GW "just because". WD pamplet codices/army lists in the past have been forgotten and thrown away many times already. I have a friend who converted a kroot army list, and today cannot use it anywhere because everyone wants "updated and OFFICIAL" rules, of which WD is rarely, if ever accepted as official for tourneys and events.
People say they want WD to return to it's former glory, but the audience has moved on.
Maybe Sisters will have rhinos with no access points...
@Yakface
I do appreciate the optimism, but my optimism meter is empty after over a decade of GW draining it dry. I have heard promises by GW many, many times, and they have always changed or been broken for the greater good of their bottom line.
I am not even mentioning the actual codex releases, like the eye of terror, in which GW dupes people into collecting and buying a new force, just to forget it, when all it takes is a simple .pdf update to do so.
So please, don't take offense from me, but you can keep your rose tinted glasses and optimism with GW. I want to just interject a little realism based on past fact, so that when peopel do get their sisters WD update, and smile, in 4 years, when the WD issue becomes irrelevant for tourneys, events and general play, they will remember someone with foresight gave them fair warning based on GW's factual track record hobby dumping for profit.
There is that 1% of my soul that hopes you are right...
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Erm- the last two WD only armies got full armybooks / codexes not long after.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BuFFo wrote:The memories of many of you are so short.
If the Sisters pamphlet codex has any new units in it, don't bother converting anything, because after a few years, a la kroot mercs, you will be forgotten.
Kroot Mercs were pretty much guaranteed not to become a 'codex'. Anyone who thought they would was deceiving themselves.
And no, I am not dumping on GW "just because". WD pamplet codices/army lists in the past have been forgotten and thrown away many times already. I have a friend who converted a kroot army list, and today cannot use it anywhere because everyone wants "updated and OFFICIAL" rules, of which WD is rarely, if ever accepted as official for tourneys and events.
lol?
It's stupid if people are not accepting the official publication of the company as 'official' for tourneys or events.
By the by, the "Kroot army list" hasn't had 'updated and official rules'.
Why?
Probably because the rules and some of the things were ridiculous to begin with, but who knows.
I'm going to bet that your next argument will be about Lost and the Damned, yes?
Yeah. Too bad. They were intended for a campaign that occurred once, and wouldn't be repeated.
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Post by: yakface
BuFFo wrote:The memories of many of you are so short.
If the Sisters pamphlet codex has any new units in it, don't bother converting anything, because after a few years, a la kroot mercs, you will be forgotten.
And no, I am not dumping on GW "just because". WD pamplet codices/army lists in the past have been forgotten and thrown away many times already. I have a friend who converted a kroot army list, and today cannot use it anywhere because everyone wants "updated and OFFICIAL" rules, of which WD is rarely, if ever accepted as official for tourneys and events.
People say they want WD to return to it's former glory, but the audience has moved on.
Maybe Sisters will have rhinos with no access points...
I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. There has never been an army that had it's own codex which was then given a white dwarf army list and was later discontinued.
Never. Not even squats had a codex.
This is the SAME as the Blood Angel release which was 'official' and was allowed in every tournament (that I heard of), before getting a full codex later.
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Post by: BuFFo
I said my peace.
You guys just go ahead and keep falling for the same thing, over and over and over ad naseum. I won't derail this thread by taking off topic, so ya'll can have the final, short sighted, word.
If anything, I do hope GW gives a damn this one time, and does justice to the Sisters, and KEEPS them relevant as a WD army list for years to come.
@yakface
I did edit my previous thread, just fyi... You might not have seen it.
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Post by: BrookM
Kroot Mercs were Chapter Approved by the way, which always was iffy to many people.
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Post by: AdeptSister
So when will we know what the new troop boxes will look like? I am hoping that they are at least 10 model kits because of the point costs of sisters. Hopefully the kit comes with heavy flamers...
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Post by: pretre
SO EXCITED! Good news at last.
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Post by: temprus
I could be dead wrong but I would assume that the WD Codex is so they can do two things: 1) Update SoB to 5th and eliminate the allies "issue", among other things; 2) Present the SoB Finecast as a whole release instead of bits and pieces here and there like all the current Finecast releases are doing. If it has any non-finecast releases I would assume it would either be a metal re-release (which "sounds silly" with Finecast out) or kit(s) that SoB share with someone else (which is not many at this point, Inq stuff if SoB has any maybe).
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Post by: agnosto
yakface wrote:
I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. There has never been an army that had it's own codex which was then given a white dwarf army list and was later discontinued.
Never. Not even squats had a codex.
This is the SAME as the Blood Angel release which was 'official' and was allowed in every tournament (that I heard of), before getting a full codex later.
My Chaos Dwarfs started out in WD, got an army book and then went on holiday for the next 15 years. The plus side is that they're getting nifty new models and an army list from forgeworld. Here's hoping no one cries when I try to play them with that list.
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Post by: ceorron
BuFFo wrote:
I do appreciate the optimism, but my optimism meter is empty after over a decade of GW draining it dry. I have heard promises by GW many, many times, and they have always changed or been broken for the greater good of their bottom line.
I am not even mentioning the actual codex releases, like the eye of terror, in which GW dupes people into collecting and buying a new force, just to forget it, when all it takes is a simple .pdf update to do so.
So please, don't take offense from me, but you can keep your rose tinted glasses and optimism with GW. I want to just interject a little realism based on past fact, so that when peopel do get their sisters WD update, and smile, in 4 years, when the WD issue becomes irrelevant for tourneys, events and general play, they will remember someone with foresight gave them fair warning based on GW's factual track record hobby dumping for profit.
There is that 1% of my soul that hopes you are right...
This, QFT
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Post by: Melissia
For once, I agree with buffo.
GW PDF codices suck ass, they always have, and with all respects to Cruddace, they always will, and this one will be no exception. Hell they even screwed up the Daemonhunters pdf when it was supposed to be a copy/paste--forgetting to put what the Grey Knights rule meant because they hastily removed the page due to it having Allies rules.
This is not good news. This is like waiting for a date to show up, and he/she's four hours late, only to have him/her greet you by slapping your face and ignoring you because he/she's more interested in another person and wishes he/she wasn't dating you. Then claiming it's good news because hey, at least he/she showed up at all!
It's just sad. In so many ways.
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Post by: tastytaste
temprus wrote:I could be dead wrong but I would assume that the WD Codex is so they can do two things: 1) Update SoB to 5th and eliminate the allies "issue", among other things; 2) Present the SoB Finecast as a whole release instead of bits and pieces here and there like all the current Finecast releases are doing. If it has any non-finecast releases I would assume it would either be a metal re-release (which "sounds silly" with Finecast out) or kit(s) that SoB share with someone else (which is not many at this point, Inq stuff if SoB has any maybe).
and we have a winner for the most logical analysis yet!
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Post by: BrookM
How much time was there between the Blood Angels getting a WD supplement and getting their own codex?
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Post by: Melissia
BrookM wrote:How much time was there between the Blood Angels getting a WD supplement and getting their own codex?
Three years. But they're a Marine army, so double the time for sisters, who aren't Marines.
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Post by: Kroothawk
agnosto wrote:My Chaos Dwarfs started out in WD, got an army book and then went on holiday for the next 15 years.
Chaos Dwarfs never had an army book. They just got a softcover reprint of the WD articles with " WD presents" written instead of "army book". Just check your copy to verify this.
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Post by: morgendonner
I'm happy to see this happen, I haven't touched my sisters army in over a year.
My main concern though is that GW pulled most of the range off store shelves, the thought at the time was that this meant new models were on the way. Now that it would appear that's not the case, how are we supposed to expand an army?
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Post by: BrookM
There was some talk of models getting re-released and other models getting a re-design.
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Post by: Melissia
BrookM wrote:There was some talk of models getting re-released and other models getting a re-design.
Yes, but for this codex, it's a resin re-release.
So basically they're giving us lower quality, equally expensive version of second edition models that nobody wanted to buy anymore anyway.
Isn't it fun to keep using the same exact model range for three editions, and likely four too if sixth edition is as close as people think it is?
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Post by: Brother SRM
BuFFo wrote:I said my peace.
You guys just go ahead and keep falling for the same thing, over and over and over ad naseum. I won't derail this thread by taking off topic, so ya'll can have the final, short sighted, word.
If anything, I do hope GW gives a damn this one time, and does justice to the Sisters, and KEEPS them relevant as a WD army list for years to come.
@yakface
I did edit my previous thread, just fyi... You might not have seen it.
I don't think we're going to "fall" for anything. As has been stated, the previous armies that only got a WD release never had a codex in the first place, and the armies that had codices/army books and then a WD dex both got real codices not long after. The two that did get real rulebooks were the two most recent, Warriors of Chaos and Blood Angels. You can't just say "I won't derail this thread" then repeatedly take parting shots that only serve to take it further off topic.
Sisters will get a WD codex and then a real one in a year or two. They will not be "Squatted" because if they were, they wouldn't get this codex in the first place.
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Post by: morgendonner
Melissia wrote:Yes, but for this codex, it's a resin re-release.
So basically they're giving us lower quality, equally expensive version of second edition models that nobody wanted to buy anymore anyway.
Isn't it fun to keep using the same exact model range for three editions, and likely four too if sixth edition is as close as people think it is?
Meh if they bring back the old models as finecast I'd be fine with that. The sculpts were nice it was just those fugly heads/sugar bowl haircuts that got repetitive but if it's now resin that's much easier to convert out.
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Post by: Melissia
morgendonner wrote:Melissia wrote:Yes, but for this codex, it's a resin re-release.
So basically they're giving us lower quality, equally expensive version of second edition models that nobody wanted to buy anymore anyway.
Isn't it fun to keep using the same exact model range for three editions, and likely four too if sixth edition is as close as people think it is?
Meh if they bring back the old models as finecast I'd be fine with that. The sculpts were nice it was just those fugly heads/sugar bowl haircuts that got repetitive but if it's now resin that's much easier to convert out.
The entire model range is repetitive. And finecast is already notoriously low quality, so you're gonna have to do some work just to be able to use them UNmodified.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Melissia wrote:
The entire model range is repetitive. And finecast is already notoriously low quality, so you're gonna have to do some work just to be able to use them UNmodified.
Finecast is actually of a very good quality. It's the vocal minority who post about the miscasts, then the bandwagon jumpers on top of them. Quality control isn't as good as it should be, but when Finecast models come out right, they're very, very good.
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Post by: Melissia
Brother SRM wrote:Finecast is actually of a very good quality. It's the vocal minority who post about the miscasts, then the bandwagon jumpers on top of them. Quality control isn't as good as it should be, but when Finecast models come out right, they're very, very good.
Not a minority by my reckoning. You'd be the FIRST person I've talked to who had anything good to say about finecast. Both IRL and online.
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Post by: Mannahnin
I like the idea of coordinating the Sisters WH list with a Finecast release for their stuff. That would be neat.
BuFFo wrote:You guys just go ahead and keep falling for the same thing, over and over and over ad naseum. I won't derail this thread by taking off topic, so ya'll can have the final, short sighted, word.
If you think there is no difference between what happened with Kroot Mercs in WD vs. BA and WoC in WD, you're not making an effort to see clearly.
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Post by: olympia
My GKs will miss the table-wide psychic hood....like a bad case of diarrhea!
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Post by: Slinky
From page 1:
ghost21 wrote:
ok that is ironious they will have a proper dex or ill run through the streets of notingham hailing the end of civiliation naked n painted yellow
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Post by: Ascalam
Bring a camcorder and a packed lunch
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Post by: kenzosan
yakface wrote:kenzosan wrote:my only complaint has and will remain to be that sisters are all metal and are the most expensive army to build. a wd codex only keeps this complaint alive.
And the release of the army list in White Dwarf neither helps nor hurts that problem...it is completely independent of it. Do you think for a second GW has a heap of plastic SoB models ready to release but instead has decided to shelve them so they can put out a 'get you by' White Dwarf army list?
Of course not. In fact, if anything, a White Dwarf army list shows that they ARE working on the army, and based on recent history that means a TON of new plastic models. Unfortunately, sculpting a bunch of new plastic models (along with all the other plastic models that every other release gets) obviously takes a long time, which is why an interim codex bringing some of the rules up to date with those in the Grey Knights codex makes a heck of a lot of sense.
firstly: yes i do believe there are a bunch of plastic sisters sitting around in creates much like at the end of "raiders of the lost ark"
second: yea, your right, i never looked at it that way. im upset because i really want to build sisters i just dont wanna spend twice as much on the army as i did for my ba and am going to spend on my eldar. i do appreciate that they are updating the codex and looking at sisters, but it feels rushed and bad because all i can think of is that 1) they are taking out the inquisition so there is effectively half an army and 2) they could simply update the pdf. i know they want to sell white dwarfs but damn, TWO! i cant even see the whole codex for TWO months. its like if i pay $10 for a book and get half way through and am told 'in a month you can buy the second half for $10' if i want to find out what happens.
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Post by: Melissia
Me, I'm glad they removed the Inquisition, but it's a pity they don't just give the poor sods their own codex instead. Emperor knows they did taht with all the various colors of Space Marines.
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Post by: kenzosan
Melissia wrote:Me, I'm glad they removed the Inquisition, but it's a pity they don't just give the poor sods their own codex instead. Emperor knows they did taht with all the various colors of Space Marines.
i am too. i think inquisition should have been their own, and grey knights and sisters codex would be the perfect time to seperate em.
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Post by: Mannahnin
Kenzo, both the BA and WoC WD 'dexes were available on the website as free PDFs very shortly after the magazines were released.
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Post by: kenzosan
Mannahnin wrote:Kenzo, both the BA and WoC WD 'dexes were available on the website as free PDFs very shortly after the magazines were released.
i see, im learning something new once again. i didnt know that. my friend gave me a photocopy version of the wd pages back when i started ba.
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Post by: SabrX
Now that I think about it, I'm so use to using the current pdf that I don't care anymore. I welcome a new codex be it White Dwarf or pdf.
This will also be my first time buying White Dwarf.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
fox-light713 wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I prefer the metal (hopefully soon to be finecast?) miniatures. The plastic ones are bound to be more heroic scale garbage rather than the well proportioned beauties they are now.
I take it you've never seen Plastic Warhammer Fantasy models? I have some wood elves and they are proportionally smaller than a Guardsman, SM, and even a SoB.
I would prefer plastic over metal any day, its a lot easier to work with. Anyways this also brings up the question as may have already stated, "Will the WD article bring new plastic boxed sets with it? and will it be with the first half with the fluff or the second half with the rules?"
Either way I do hope it dose bring new plastic boxed sets regardless.
Yes, but those minis are also really really old. I'm not saying that GW can't make proportional mini's, I'm saying that they don't (anymore). Either way, here's hoping for a finecast release to coincide with the WD article.
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Post by: Omegus
Grim.Badger wrote:I wonder if this has any connection to Jes Goodwin (or whoever it was) saying that they were having problems with the plastics?
From what I remember, they were having issues with the cloth and hair. Their molds and material required both to flow in the same direction, which made them look kind of goofy. They supposedly resolved most of those issues in the process of the Dark Eldar models, and will apply what they've learned to the Sisters. It will however probably take a while to bring them up to speed and actually to the release stage.
Anyway, anyone have any idea when this issue of White Dwarf is hitting the shelves? The July issue? When does GW release their mag?
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Post by: Mr.Malevolent
I don't know why everyone seems to be raging over this. I for one welcome the idea of getting an updated list and hell even getting a rumored "finecast" re-do on the sisters (I HATE using metal). Plus after a month or so the PDF should be up on GWs site for free download. If this is the new trend for GW to release PDF updates via White Dwarf and website then I'm all for it! Better then being left in the dark for years and years and years (yeah I'm looking at you Dark Eldar) Automatically Appended Next Post: Omegus wrote:Anyway, anyone have any idea when this issue of White Dwarf is hitting the shelves? I want it NAO!
I believe it will be August and September. I heard they are giving us the full 2 issue treatment.
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Post by: Marrak
It'll be nice to see what the treatment is for the Sisters upcoming. Glad to see them getting attention.
And... I think it was Melissa... saying that she has not had anyone else give a good review for Finecast, let me add my comments: I got 3 finecast Hive guard (in exchange for 3 metal after paying the difference) and I am extremely happy with the quality. One is missing part of a dewclaw on his back foot, but that's it. The rest of the cleanup is no worse than metal, in fact it was easier to take care of.
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Post by: JGrand
I don't understand all the complains.
Some of it is justified. This isn't ideal and the Sisters range needs all new plastic models. Fans of the list have been waiting for long time. Still, I have a hard time believing that the new dex will be worse than the current one. Smooth out some rules, bring the points costs in line with 5th, and add a new unit or two and you have a decent enough stopgap.
I'm sure that fans of codices like Necrons, Eldar, Tau, and Daemons wouldn't mind a small update. Look at how much the FAQ effected the playability of DA and BT. If bringing some rules and costs in line with 5th is enough to make some of the lesser played armies playable again until a full on update and new models come out then that's fine by me.
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Post by: Omegus
The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.
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Post by: JGrand
The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.
Does it though? Has this been confirmed? If so then I get the problem but nowhere has this been stated other than fanboy speculation. Who knows whether or not this becomes something GW starts doing from time to time. I'd take the rules even if they don't have to models ready.
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Post by: army310
like 6th ed thats coming in less than a year. O no what will those 20 guys that play sisters will do. For $%^& sake at lest they are getting something and people really need to stop crying about ever thing if its not this, its finecast or the game is costing to much. Be happy you don't work with me you would be in the front leaning rest all day.
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Post by: dkellyj
At least this will give us an advanced look at what GWs intention is for Allied units.
In the end i may end up with half a SoB army and half an IG army that can't play together anymore.
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Post by: Omegus
JGrand wrote:Does it though? Has this been confirmed? If so then I get the problem but nowhere has this been stated other than fanboy speculation. Who knows whether or not this becomes something GW starts doing from time to time. I'd take the rules even if they don't have to models ready.
I'm just stating what the issue is as I understand it. I have no opinion one way or the other. I have a SoB army, but I am long long past caring what GW does. I learned that lesson when 3rd edition rolled out.
army310 wrote:like 6th ed thats coming in less than a year. O no what will those 20 guys that play sisters will do. For $%^& sake at lest they are getting something and people really need to stop crying about ever thing if its not this, its finecast or the game is costing to much. Be happy you don't work with me you would be in the front leaning rest all day.
I'm sure there are more than 20 people that play Sisters, and I doubt we're less than year out from 6th edition. People can air their grievances, real or imagined, that's what the forum is for. Edited by Manchu
dkellyj wrote:At least this will give us an advanced look at what GWs intention is for Allied units.
This is probably one of the driving reasons for a WD codex, too. Daemonhunter allies are gone, but Witchhunters persist and this could be their way to finally write out Allies entirely.
I do hope they eventually allow assassins and maybe even a GKT squad in the occasional Imperial army. Maybe something like a Heroes of the Imperium mini-dex in a few years.
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Post by: Revarien
Mr.Malevolent wrote:I don't know why everyone seems to be raging over this.
I'm not the point of raging... just confused at what they're wanting to do with this - is it to support the army and let us know they still will support it? or to see how many folks actually play the army/would play the army... to see if it worth continuing? or as Yak suggests, to get us by till an actual codex release? Believe me, I hope for the latter... I have probably a couple grand tied up in Sisters of Battle minis... most of them even painted... so not just money, but countless hours too...
All that said: I think people have the right to be upset when an army isn't supported as much as other armies, when people are spending just as much (and in most cases more) money to play that army. I just want them to come out and say that they'll put the book out soon, when they do this in WD... That's all. I don't want them to just ignore the fact that players are not certain of their army's future.
I have cautious optimism for the army's future/viability/usability-at-tournies... but at this point, nothing is certain at all (mainly because they professed that they would never do a WD codex again... and here they are).
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Post by: Kroothawk
Remember the people who said that they won't start a Sororitas army because a full metal army would be too expensive?
Now enjoy a Finecast rerelease (or a plastic 5 Sororitas box)
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Post by: Phototoxin
Hmm... sisters vs crons for a new boxed set... Assault on Sanctuary 101 as the battle/narritive??... I see possiblities..
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Post by: Melissia
Kroothawk wrote:Remember the people who said that they won't start a Sororitas army because a full metal army would be too expensive?
Now enjoy a Finecast rerelease (or a plastic 5 Sororitas box)
I bet five internets that the finecast Sisters are gonna have more flaws than an LSD junky's interpretation of reality.
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Post by: Clang
Re Finecast, I still don't expect any Finecast versions of existing SoB models - GW doing so would imply that the particular model's design is compatible with the new designs for the planned new range. Just maybe that might be true for a couple of character models, but otherwise we're expecting all new models (as with Dark Eldar).
Although, just maybe they might 'throw us a bone' and release a couple of brand _new_ SoB models (in Finecast) - that could be a cute way of stoking interest in the eventual full SoB release by indicating the SoB Cool New Shiny Look...
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Post by: Omegus
Melissia wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Remember the people who said that they won't start a Sororitas army because a full metal army would be too expensive?
Now enjoy a Finecast rerelease (or a plastic 5 Sororitas box)
I bet five internets that the finecast Sisters are gonna have more flaws than an LSD junky's interpretation of reality.
Hell, I wish. Then they'd at least be fun.
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Post by: JGrand
I'm just stating what the issue is as I understand it. I have no opinion one way or the other. I have a SoB army, but I am long long past caring what GW does. I learned that lesson when 3rd edition rolled out.
The idea that "this stopgap delays the real dex" is unsubstantiated. I'd love to see where you and others are getting that from. It's an assumption.
I bet five internets that the finecast Sisters are gonna have more flaws than an LSD junky's interpretation of reality.
From what I understand the flaws are a vocal minority. I have seem plenty of good finecast stuff. You can debate the finer points of the price increase and other issues in different threads. No need for the derail.
Overall, I don't see the issue if Sisters are getting a real update later. No one really knows everything at this point but what we do know is that they are working on models and have had some rumored issues. The way I see it is that Sisters are getting an update that brings them in line with 5th for the time being. I play Daemons and if I was told that a full new dex was a year or so off but we were getting a stopgap update to give the army a shot in the arm for now I'd be ecstatic.
It's not perfect but it's something. Hell, a simple FAQ update that brought BT and DA into 5th got people using them again. Giving Sisters players a reason to dust off the old models is reason enough that this is a good thing.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I think Finecast is more likely than a box of 5 sororitas... Unless SOB are no longer the basic infantry unit, or they are getting super-buffed to Gk like levels, they are coming ten to a box...
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Post by: Kroothawk
Guess it's time to repost this description from 3rd April on Heresy Online:
Sexxy Camera wrote:A few sisters of battle Tidbits.
Some info about the sister’s codex coming out this fall:
The Sisters of Battle codex is taking a step away from the old codex’s focus on the Inquisition, and is now more of a codex focused on the Ecclesiarchy. The codex will represent the sisters much more truly to their roots in the fluff, and the non sister codex allies have been changed accordingly. More than many codexes’, the new Codex for sisters really feels like a brand new Codex.
Ok, so let’s start with the sisters themselves.
Redone in plastic, the sisters look great. While they won’t look out of place with the sisters of the past, they look much more like members of the church, though the over all look of the armor is very similar, if more ornate. The box set comes with enough plastic to make five sisters, but while we are only getting five girls per box, we are gaining a host of new options. The box contains bits to configure them as either regular sisters or Seraphim, and has tons of cool little extra bits to really make each unit unique. Gone are the Inquisition =I=’s, usually replaced with the fleur-de-lis. I counted eleven heads total, with five helmets, five without helmets and one with a gasmask / respirator type thing. Each of the eleven heads was a unique sculpt. The entire kit just really shows how far molds and model making has come since the days when our old sisters were cast, and while I would have been the first to scream heresy a year ago if you told me the sisters were changing, I have to say that the new ones really look fantastic.
I would like to take a moment to talk about their legs as well. I have always considered myself a modeler/painter first and a gamer second and one of the things that always bothered me about the old sisters were their legs. Like all metal miniatures, moding them was hard, and no sisters really had dynamic posses. The new legs have me really excited because they are very dynamic. I guess I would best compare them to the BA legs from their recent release. They really offer a lot of options in terms of modeling and are really one of the most exciting parts of the kit, in my opinion.
For weapon options the kit comes with a flamer, melt gun, storm bolter and pistol flamer as well as two guns I didn’t recognize including a weird rifle type thing and some gun that looked like a pistol from the 18th century with a torch bracket jammed on the end. There is a right and left handed version of both the pistol flamer and the other weird pistol. There were of course bolters / bolt pistols and both a power weapon and some chain swords. What I really liked about the weapons was their level of detail and individuality. Even though they are the same war gear a squad of space marines might field every piece of equipment screams sisters, and while easily recognizable is quite different from their marine counterparts. I want to say the weapons are smaller, but they might just be sleeker. One of the bolters comes with a strap.
The last thing I will mention about this new kit is that the jetpacks for the seraphim look much more like, well, like jet packs.
The Penitent engine is back in beautiful, mod-able plastic, and thankfully the remained true to its old design in many ways. It has four different options for its two close combat weapons, though I believe they are just aesthetics, and comes with parts to mount either flamer’s or melta’s under its arms. Looking at the kit, I believe its legs are possible similarly to the sentinels as it has a ball joint for its feet and little nubs / indents at the joint in its leg, which is very exciting since that will give us a lot more options when it comes to dynamic poses. Along with the weapons you also get several choices for drivers 3 icon badge things from the major sisters’ factions. A few other miscellaneous pieces like a scroll plate and such finish off the fun little extra bits.
The repressor is finally making an appearance in plastic as well. It looks similar to the FW one, but has the turret reworked and a different dozer blade. It comes with quite a few options to sister it up, from the same three icons I mentioned above, though slightly bigger, to numerous scrolls and of course options for sister doors. The driver has options for a helmeted head or a regular bobcat sister head with a little microphone thingy.
There is also a kit for a new priest, which I could best compare to the empire wizard kit. Fantasy players will know what I am talking about. There are numerous heads from the bald friar look to the crazy bearded look. Additionally we have options for plasma pistols, bolt pistols, and flamer pistols as well as a book arm and of course a gigantic chain sword. The model doesn’t have anything in the way of armor, though the chain sword looks almost big enough that he could hide behind it.
Well that’s all I have for you for now. Sorry I haven’t much in the way of rules, and that’s always the really exciting part, but I though some folks might like to know a little bit about the new models.
Cheers,
Sexxy Camera
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Post by: BrookM
Multi-part priest kit makes me happy. It's something my Guard army lacks.
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Post by: Nagashek
Grim.Badger wrote:I wonder if this has any connection to Jes Goodwin (or whoever it was) saying that they were having problems with the plastics? Maybe the Codex was originally drafted in to be released at this point but because of the problems with the models they've shifted it over to the next release year or something and done a WD codex to, as Yak says, tidy up the rules in the meantime?
I hope this "release" goes well for them and they sell a stack of WDs, then we might see more army lists including ones that wouldn't be variable enough to support a full codex - who wouldn't like to see full army lists for the individual Chaos Legions? Or specialised Carftworlds? Maybe even more Tau Allies or whole new Races - sure I'm daydreaming, but why not :p
They used to do this all the time. Chapter Approved used to have articles for all types of additional units, and many of the Dogs of War units in WHFB got the WD treatment. Menghil Manhide's Manflayers (Near infamous in my town) Human Auxileries for Tau, Gnoblar list, Kroot Mercenary List, Zombie Pirate list, updated rules for Krell and Heinrich Kemmler, and so on. Honestly, releasing Special Character rules in WD would seem to be the way to go, IMO, as well as variant army lists (I almost wonder if the Gnoblar list could work in 8th ed... [digs through old WD]) But then, this would make sense, and I think the last time GW made sense, Andy Chambers was still in the company.
Another idea I just had when someone mentioned this WD dex as the stop gap till 6th ed was: Why don't they just do this for every dex when a new edition rolls out? here is 6th, and 2 issues to cover it, maybe 3-4 dexes per year get a few updated rules to address compatability, new fluff, points tweaking, etc, while waiting for that editions dex. Of course this means a ton of work from the get go, but it allows them to establish the tone for an edition early on (like Mech for 5th ed, or huge infantry blocks and lower costs for 8th ed WH) and plan accordingly. No more codex creep, just level the playing field ASAP to have excitement for ALL armies, then get cracking on the codices.
Also, why not do two codices with the release of the box set? Here is Black Reach, and that month is Marines and Orks. It would be the only time that two books are released at once, but it sets the balancing standard. This is the power level we want for the edition, and all following books will balanced according to these.
Just a thought...
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Post by: army310
Nagashek wrote:Grim.Badger wrote:I wonder if this has any connection to Jes Goodwin (or whoever it was) saying that they were having problems with the plastics? Maybe the Codex was originally drafted in to be released at this point but because of the problems with the models they've shifted it over to the next release year or something and done a WD codex to, as Yak says, tidy up the rules in the meantime?
I hope this "release" goes well for them and they sell a stack of WDs, then we might see more army lists including ones that wouldn't be variable enough to support a full codex - who wouldn't like to see full army lists for the individual Chaos Legions? Or specialised Carftworlds? Maybe even more Tau Allies or whole new Races - sure I'm daydreaming, but why not :p
They used to do this all the time. Chapter Approved used to have articles for all types of additional units, and many of the Dogs of War units in WHFB got the WD treatment. Menghil Manhide's Manflayers (Near infamous in my town) Human Auxileries for Tau, Gnoblar list, Kroot Mercenary List, Zombie Pirate list, updated rules for Krell and Heinrich Kemmler, and so on. Honestly, releasing Special Character rules in WD would seem to be the way to go, IMO, as well as variant army lists (I almost wonder if the Gnoblar list could work in 8th ed... [digs through old WD]) But then, this would make sense, and I think the last time GW made sense, Andy Chambers was still in the company.
Chapter Approved was the best and thats how they would fix stuff in codexs too. I wish they still did that. And I would would not mine if they release the rules(just the rules) in WD and make a codex that would have the back ground stuff and rules at the same time or so. For all we know(which is not much) they mite be doing this or something close to this.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Kroothawk wrote:Guess it's time to repost this description from 3rd April on Heresy Online:
Yeah, sorry I don't buy it.
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Post by: fox-light713
Grot 6 wrote:
I remember seeing the photos of the sprues of the plastics here a while back, someone know if those are in fact the real deal?
As for the WD/ Plastics question- NO, it means that you get what you get- a starter, gets you by codex that people can play thier Sisters with, without having to wait the obligatory 4-6 months later.
Pics of the sprews? I'm gonna have to as for a source on that one. I've only ever seen discriptoins of the new plastic SoB like the one by sexxy camera.
I also take it that your ignoring the fact that the WD article spear head was supported by a model release. With GW breaking their word on never doing a WD codex again almost anything is possible now.
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Post by: N'Ferno
I guess the bottom of it is a whole lot of people (including yours truly) want the Sisters to come back to the front. If anything, regardless of GW's intentions with this WD dex, the amount of discussion it brings might show this fact to them, maybe even (Emperor willing) sway them in our direction.
Bring on the August WD I say!
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Post by: Pouncey
Personally, I welcome the upcoming WD Codex. ^^
It's new stuff! I love new stuff! I just hope I don't have to wait another 6 months after the final part for the PDF version to be released - cause I'd love to print out a PDF and stick it in a notebook or binder or something, as opposed to going, "Wait, what's that new rule/model's stats/weapon again? Hang on... :: flip flip flip flip... flip flip flip... flip... flip flip flip :: Ah, there we go!" which eats up a lot of time compared to just opening up a notebook with a few pages.
Oh, and to explain the whole thing where people say, "Dang, this means the real Codex and minis are gonna take longer..." It's not so much that there's any concrete proof. It's more of an inference reached by the thought that there's not much point in releasing a WD Codex if the book and minis are just going to come out a couple of months later. Of course, there's precedence for a WD rules release to be accompanied by related model releases.
Also interesting is that they call it, "Codex: Sisters of Battle," and not, "Codex: Witch Hunters." Could be new stuff indeed. ^^ Hopefully model releases too, but even just a rules preview would be nice. ^^
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Post by: S'jet
I just want a reason to paint up a squad of Repentia.
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Post by: Melissia
So it's seriously only five per box? How moronic... Automatically Appended Next Post: chaos0xomega wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Guess it's time to repost this description from 3rd April on Heresy Online:
Yeah, sorry I don't buy it.
Personally, I'm more likely to buy that than I am the OP rumor in this thread. If only for wishful thinking. PDF codex breaks from the standard for fifth edition.
As in, substandard.
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...
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Post by: Melissia
Pouncey wrote:Personally, I welcome the upcoming WD Codex. ^^
It's new stuff! I love new stuff!
Technically, a cat dumping on your carpet is "new stuff".
Just cause it's new doesn't mean it's good... Automatically Appended Next Post: Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...
As did every other PDF codex GW has ever released
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Post by: AlexHolker
JGrand wrote:Still, I have a hard time believing that the new dex will be worse than the current one.
It will remove the Armoury and Allies for starters. If nothing else, that means they'll be starting off on the wrong foot.
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Post by: Melissia
AlexHolker wrote:JGrand wrote:Still, I have a hard time believing that the new dex will be worse than the current one.
It will remove the Armoury and Allies for starters. If nothing else, that means they'll be starting off on the wrong foot.
They could start by making Celestians into a dedicated assault unit, instead of a shooty unit with assaulty stats and abilities...
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Post by: Farseer Jenkins
It could be a multitude of things going on here, possibly they are for sure in the new box set, 6th is right around the corner (even closer than we know) and they learned from the eldar codex that the book just before a rules release is better off saved till after but they wanted to give the SOB some love so..,they realized that the white dwarf is a place that can house new rules etc like old school dwarves.
Plus i have always found it hard to believe that there is enough info troop types etc etc for SOB to have their own dex without it being very small.
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Post by: N'Ferno
I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet Melissia. I think the 5 per box is more of an elite troops thing, I really doubt we'll see boxes of troops in Finecast anyway.
As for Repentia, I have a bunch I was planning to paint. This codex might even make them worth playing But please gief plastic ones, so we can take them off the horrible poses they were cursed with (as if they weren't cursed enough already).
Edit : Wow, the discussion zoomed past while I was typing this....*curses at workload*
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Post by: whoadirty
Happy for the Sisters players, hopefully this will give them a bump in terms of competitiveness. I thought I read a while back that the second wave of Tyranid models was going to be in August, I (selfishly) hope that the SoBs don't bump ... assuming it was true in the first place.
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Post by: yakface
Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...
Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.
If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.
And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.
And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.
So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?
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Post by: Platuan4th
yakface wrote:
And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.
And the 3rd edition Sisters WD list was amazing, especially considering what they had before that.
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
That's a good point about the relationship between the Blood Angel codex and the Dark Angel codex.
Perhaps there is hope for the sisters.
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Post by: JGrand
Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.
If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.
+1 Just because something happened way back when doesn't mean that an internationally gimped codex is coming. Even the worst 5th edition codex is leaps and bounds better than what Sisters have now.
And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.
And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.
She just likes to complain, plain and simple. There is no way that the codex will be worse than what they have now. New models should be nice too. Complaining about only 5 per box? If the rumors are true and it really is such a catch all unit and clocks in at around $30 or less than I see no problems. The new GK units are 5 per box and still beat the metal prices.
So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?
This is absolutely the most important point: who said that this WD codex is pushing back anything? Where did that info come from? It's an assumption. As I've said before, I'd easily take a stopgap for Daemons and I'm sure plenty of other armies would be happy as well.
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Post by: schadenfreude
SOB isn't going to be squatted, and stop smoking so much weed t9o much of that gak will make you paranoid.
GW's primary motivation is to make money, so just ask yourself a real simple question: Would squatting 40k's most expensive army improve GW's bottom line?
GW has a lot of projects currently under production. Fine cast is a huge project that is going to eat an enormous amount of their time resulting in many modeling projects such as multi part SOB troops being delayed. The codex is just not going to be released until they have the models to support the codex, so they are releasing the white dwarf codex as a temporary fix repeating the history behind blood angels and warriors of chaos.
The urgency behind them releasing SOB now instead of later is GW's desire to put the final nail in the coffin of the allies rule. That along with finecast delaying the release of SOB mineratures=white dwarf codex.
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Post by: Xelkireth
Yup. No more allies outside of Apoc.
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Post by: AlexHolker
schadenfreude wrote:The urgency behind them releasing SOB now instead of later is GW's desire to put the final nail in the coffin of the allies rule.
Yeah, I'm really feeling the love. The "Don't worry, Sisters players, GW hasn't forgotten you!" message sounds a bit hollow when it really means GW just wants to finish eradicating the Allies rule.
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Post by: Xelkireth
Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.
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Post by: fox-light713
schadenfreude wrote:
GW has a lot of projects currently under production. Fine cast is a huge project that is going to eat an enormous amount of their time resulting in many modeling projects such as multi part SOB troops being delayed. The codex is just not going to be released until they have the models to support the codex, so they are releasing the white dwarf codex as a temporary fix repeating the history behind blood angels and warriors of chaos.
With the rumors of the past couple of months of people seeing plastic SoB on the sprews may suggest that the models are farther along in the production line that we may think. The models may be finished if not nearly finished as the rumors put the sculpting of them shortly after the start of the Gray Knight project. I just hope we will see plastic SoB sooner rather than later.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Xelkireth wrote:Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.
They are needed with an army that from the get go in 2nd edition was not meant to stand on its own.
If they have militia (a unit that's also been with them since 2nd) to make up some long range shooting it might be OK.
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Post by: Xelkireth
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Xelkireth wrote:Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.
They are needed with an army that from the get go in 2nd edition was not meant to stand on its own.
If they have militia (a unit that's also been with them since 2nd) to make up some long range shooting it might be OK.
And I expect, that the army will be able to stand on its own, come the new WDs.
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Post by: kenzosan
Its funny, the current pdf doesn't have allies. I downloaded it 2 weeks ago. It seems more about fixing inquisition rules. I truely believe this will not get more players into sisters, this is an update for existing players. I'm sad cuz I don't want to start an army I can't buy except online and metal. Thak god for eldar.
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Post by: pretre
yakface wrote:And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex.
]And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, .
Let's not make personally critical comments about other members, please.-Mannahnin
Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.
This. Seriously. But feel free to panic anyway... Remember everyone, if there is any news/rumor from GW it is the worst thing to ever happen. EVER.
So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?
I know that I'll be called an apologist, but I'm excited about new material and an update for the sisters. We're not as bad off as necrons, but I would certainly love to see new things and/or an update.
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Post by: Avariel
Looking forward to the update to Sisters hopefully it will be good. Although the 3rd edition codex has aged pretty well and is still fairly good it could use an update. Only long ranged anti tank being in heavy support Exorcists could use changing.
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Post by: Mkvenner
yakface wrote:Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...
Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.
If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.
And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.
And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.
So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?
While the WD BA codex was an improvement over its 3rd Edition counterpart, many books could easily be better than those pamphlet codices. There were many glaring problems with that list stemming mostly from it piggy backing off of the DA codex. It used many of the same units and concepts from the DA, and shoe horned BA units from the old book. Worse it screwed with a very neat mechanic (Red Thirst/Black Rage). Then overcosting units to make up for the cost of a super melee unit that not everyone wanted was even worse. I was contempt with using the 4th Edition Space Marines codex with my BA characters, special BA units, and widespread FC. The WD dex neutered that in the wake of the new 40k "simplifying" age. Thus making the book not only a cheap rehash, but creating a band-aid that was never really needed.
You may say massive improvement, but I see horrible bland filler. In GW's defense these WD Codices may have been done as a "testing the waters" type of deal. However, I do not buy that. In reality it was a way for them to make a quick buck.
Cheers.
BTW Love the avatar.
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Post by: Eumerin
Farseer Jenkins wrote:and they learned from the eldar codex that the book just before a rules release is better off saved till after
The problem with the 4th edition Eldar codex wasn't that it was released too close to 5th. The problem with the Eldar codex was that it wasn't released close enough. i.e. GW had started to get some really basic ideas about what they wanted to do in 5th, and as a result started to play around with some new stuff in the codex. But they still hadn't really gotten beyond the most basic formative stage... and so you ended up with nonsense like the Fleet/Run mess. If the Eldar codex had come out closer to 5th's release, then the codex would have been more in line with the eventual 5th edition rulebook and things like Fleet would have been headed off without anyone even realizing that there had been a potential problem.
Heard one idea today that I thought had some merit as to why GW might be doing this. The guy spouting the theory noted that Necrons and Sisters are the only two 3rd edition codices left, and thought that GW might be getting a bit panicky to make all of the 3rd edition books go away before 6th came out. The current belief is that Necrons are due out shortly. If 6th is really due out next summer, then GW will only have a short bit after Necrons to get Sisters out, and presumably for some reason they don't think that's feasible - though why is anyone's guess, since they'd still have enough time to do another codex if they wanted to. At the moment, I find it to be the most convincing theory that I've heard/seen/read.
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Post by: AlexHolker
Blood of Kittens has posted a picture that apparently relates to the Sisters of Battle WD-dex. The meanings appear to be as follows: { HQ} {Unit} {Confessor} {Henchman} {Reroll} {Hits} {Wounds}.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Phototoxin wrote:Hmm... sisters vs crons for a new boxed set... Assault on Sanctuary 101 as the battle/narritive??... I see possiblities..
The new box set has already been decided. It is going to be SM vs SM because that is what most players want.
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Post by: fox-light713
AlexHolker wrote:Blood of Kittens has posted a picture that apparently relates to the Sisters of Battle WD-dex. The meanings appear to be as follows: { HQ} {Unit} {Confessor} {Henchman} {Reroll} {Hits} {Wounds}.
Warseer and Heresy online are still mulling over that pic. Here's a post from Heresy-Online that did some detective work that to a degree confirmed the guesses on the pic...
SoB rumor round up thread ( http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91175 ) - pg. 27, post 262, by Grogbart
"Concerning that bloody Kitten-Rumour.
I am not good with riddles, but I figured the easiest way to get pictures to make one: Google picture search!
searched for 'Confessor' and got her pic.
searched for 'Unit' got that g unit pic.
searched for 'Henchman' got the pic.
same for 'Sisyphus' and perhaps most interesting to those wanting to decipher this rumour I found those stiched cuts by searching for 'Wounds'.
As for HQ and those HTMLs with the 'A' underneath, no idea.
For the HQ I suspect he already had that pic in mind, or he made a really thoroughly search to find something thats not a corporate Headquaters Building picture."
soon after that post this was a response the the html question
AlexHolker;998513 wrote:The HTMLs and so on is part of this picture, describing the HITS algorithm. (Thanks, Tin Eye!)
In other words, those last two pictures are "Hits" and "Wounds".
The Sisyphus picture might mean "Reroll".
Also on the question on weather or not if this WD codex will have new models or not, and I'm referring to any kind of model plastic kit, finecast, repackage, anything.
If not could GW use the the WD codex release as a marketing tool for the eventual C: SoB and possibly have a list or make an announcement in the WD's showing off the SoB getting new plastic kits and how they will be combined? We might get a confirmation on the plastic SoB kit on how many will be in it and how many different units it can make. Even better yet, if no models, will it have pictures of the new plastic SoB kits or will they reuse the metal ones that they have?
Just speculatory on the possibility of GW using it as a sneak peak or a preview as a marketing tool for the new plastic kits that SoB could be getting later.
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Post by: Eumerin
fox-light713 wrote:If not could GW use the the WD codex release as a marketing tool for the eventual C:SoB and possibly have a list or make an announcement in the WD's showing off the SoB getting new plastic kits and how they will be combined? We might get a confirmation on the plastic SoB kit on how many will be in it and how many different units it can make. Even better yet, if no models, will it have pictures of the new plastic SoB kits or will they reuse the metal ones that they have?
Just speculatory on the possibility of GW using it as a sneak peak or a preview as a marketing tool for the new plastic kits that SoB could be getting later.
If GW doesn't release the models with the WD codex, then I strongly doubt that they'll show them off. GW's been really fanatical about not previewing stuff until the last minute lately, and these days the only time you might see something before the "coming next month" announcement in WD is at Game Day. If I remember correctly, none of the Sisters stuff has showed up in Finecast, which suggests that GW might be about to replace it all (the Necrons don't appear to have any Finecast figures yet either). But it's merely speculation at this point, and nothing's confirmed until GW gives us an actual release date for new figures.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I agree with fox-light713.
GW's objective is to produce all mass market models and vehicles as polystyrene kits because that method offers the best balance of production cost and utility to the player. Ideally they want to manufacture everything as polystyrene.
The Finecast models are a stop gap measure intended to replace metal with a cheaper material without the expense of creating new masters for injection moulding. The PR around Finecast is to justify the large price increase that accompanied their introduction.
If the entire new SoB line-up is being sculpted from scratch there is no reason not to do everything as polystyrene, as long as GW are prepared for the investment in the moulds.
The potential value of the new moulds depends on how many copies of each sprue GW think they can sell. They can gather information from a WD codex release to judge the interest in SoB.
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Post by: SagesStone
I'm actually interested in the changes the Exorcist will obviously go through. Both ruleswise and modelwise. D6 S8 AP1 is really the army's only long ranged anti-tank weaponry, which actually causes much crying despite it maybe getting 2-3 shots off a turn.
As for the model I like the current version of it, and the Forgeworld one kind of worries me if the model is to go in that direction.
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Post by: SabrX
n0t_u wrote:I'm actually interested in the changes the Exorcist will obviously go through. Both ruleswise and modelwise. D6 S8 AP1 is really the army's only long ranged anti-tank weaponry, which actually causes much crying despite it maybe getting 2-3 shots off a turn.
That and TLOS from the tip of the tallest organ pipe, which is treated as a turret. So its easy to see everyone else and not grant cover saves while hiding the exorcist's hull behind a vehicle.
They will probably have to nerf Exorcists, Divine Guidance, and Spirit of the Martyr.
If they do, I will cry. 
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Post by: fox-light713
Kilkrazy wrote:
GW's objective is to produce all mass market models and vehicles as polystyrene kits because that method offers the best balance of production cost and utility to the player. Ideally they want to manufacture everything as polystyrene.
The Finecast models are a stop gap measure intended to replace metal with a cheaper material without the expense of creating new masters for injection moulding. The PR around Finecast is to justify the large price increase that accompanied their introduction.
If the entire new SoB line-up is being sculpted from scratch there is no reason not to do everything as polystyrene, as long as GW are prepared for the investment in the moulds.
The potential value of the new moulds depends on how many copies of each sprue GW think they can sell.
That's not what I meant.
Kilkrazy wrote:They can gather information from a WD codex release to judge the interest in SoB.
Well the point would be to spur old and new interest for SoB spread by word of mouth if they do chose to list or give information for new plastic SoB kits. As well as for a stop gap for competitive players to update the point costs, and other rules such as allies being removed.
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Post by: Just Dave
The thing that puzzles me about this WD Codex is what White Dwarf is going to advertise for it? As it stands, there are few-to-no SoB models being made by GW as they haven't been re-done in Finecast and are either not being created or are still metal models. Presumably they're not releasing plastic models with the WD Codex as in that case they would have surely released a full, print Codex to support it (the plastics being priority for GW, the Codex the supporter).
So by that reckoning it means that they are either being re-done in finecast, or are having no models re-done which means there are very few models to support the SoB and allow new players to create an army.
If they are being re-done in finecast, then that begs the question as to why they weren't re-done in finecast from the start or why they're not listed for Finecast Wave 2 in August judging from a rumour thread or why they're finecasting them only to release plastic models later?
So, to me new plastics seem (highly) unlikely. Fine(re)casts seem unlikely. Which surely leaves no new models? Which would beg the question; what would WD wax lyrical about in regards to wanting your money?
I'm confused...
Kroothawk wrote:Guess it's time to repost this description from 3rd April on Heresy Online:
Sexxy Camera wrote:There is a right and left handed version of both the pistol flamer and the other weird pistol.
Equality for all!
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Post by: Kroothawk
Just Dave wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Guess it's time to repost this description from 3rd April on Heresy Online:
Sexxy Camera wrote:There is a right and left handed version of both the pistol flamer and the other weird pistol.
Equality for all!
That's right ... erm ... left ... erm ... correct
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Kilkrazy wrote:Phototoxin wrote:Hmm... sisters vs crons for a new boxed set... Assault on Sanctuary 101 as the battle/narritive??... I see possiblities..
The new box set has already been decided. It is going to be SM vs SM because that is what most players want.
Actually I heard it was Ultramarines v. Ultramarines. It's going to be called "Training Mission at Macragge"
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Post by: Erasoketa
Having a WD Codex is better than nothing, as I think that an update for the rules is always welcomed. But I thinks that it's still a bit dissapointing, what I really want is a full codex with tons of plastic minis.
Out of the three armies I'm building (DE, SoB and BT), I think that BT could use better a WD Codex. They don't need a 'revolution' in their miniature range.
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Post by: Melissia
yakface wrote:And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex.
No, I act like I don't trust GW to produce a WD codex that' up to par.... Actually, just end that sentence after " GW". I'm feeling particularly cynical today. yakface wrote:They can gather information from a WD codex release to judge the interest in SoB.
That would be a rather poor idea. If they didn't release good rules and models for the WD codex (which apparently they aren't doing the latter at any rate, given the resin rumors they're apparently just recasts of the old second edition ones), how can they tell how good rules and models for the REAL codex will sell?
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
I'm sure this has been said, but my thoughts would be a new 'get by' WD Sisters codex is mainly there to remove most of the Inquisiton and allies stuff.
Much like the main reason for the WoC WD stop-gap was to take out Daemons.
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Post by: The Grog
General interest. If a number of armies appear in tournaments, and sales of SoB stuff ticks up, then a Sisters book/models will come faster. If nothing much happens, then it will happen slower/if at all. Of course, if the rules are a mass of suck and model access/quality is terrible then the info provided will be of dubious utility.
Modified by exactly how well the DE/GK releases have done, of course, but nobody but GW really knows just how much money they made vs. mold costs.
I choose to be cautiously optimistic. Producing a WD update to an old army that they don't have new models for once a year could be a great idea to bring stuff up to date (Eldar, Chaos, Tau, Demons, Orks, BT, DA) and test stuff for a new book release in a year or two. Or it could be somebody's dumb idea to rush and try to 'fix' SoB so they can release 6th without guilt and get back to more SM armies.
Putting out the same old crap just to remove allies rules doesn't make much sense. WH is not the source of whining that DH was. When was the last IG list you saw that took allied Sisters? The only good thing you get is an old Hood anyway, and I don't know what you'd do with them in an IG army anyway. I suppose you could put them in a Valk/Vend, but you pay 50 points more for them over a similar Vet unit.
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
The Grog wrote:General interest. If a number of armies appear in tournaments, and sales of SoB stuff ticks up, then a Sisters book/models will come faster. If nothing much happens, then it will happen slower/if at all. Of course, if the rules are a mass of suck and model access/quality is terrible then the info provided will be of dubious utility.
But how can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment? It's a vicious cycle, noone plays them so they don't update them so noone plays them so they don't update them, spiralling into inadequacy.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Scarey Nerd wrote:The Grog wrote:General interest. If a number of armies appear in tournaments, and sales of SoB stuff ticks up, then a Sisters book/models will come faster. If nothing much happens, then it will happen slower/if at all. Of course, if the rules are a mass of suck and model access/quality is terrible then the info provided will be of dubious utility.
But how can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment? It's a vicious cycle, noone plays them so they don't update them so noone plays them so they don't update them, spiralling into inadequacy.
"How can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment?"--simple, the people already with armies of Sisters start playing them again because of updated rules.
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Post by: Melissia
And if the troops get recast as resin, they'll raise the price MORE. Yay! Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:Scarey Nerd wrote:The Grog wrote:General interest. If a number of armies appear in tournaments, and sales of SoB stuff ticks up, then a Sisters book/models will come faster. If nothing much happens, then it will happen slower/if at all. Of course, if the rules are a mass of suck and model access/quality is terrible then the info provided will be of dubious utility.
But how can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment? It's a vicious cycle, noone plays them so they don't update them so noone plays them so they don't update them, spiralling into inadequacy.
"How can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment?"--simple, the people already with armies of Sisters start playing them again because of updated rules.
But that would not equate to sales for GW, kan...
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Post by: Kanluwen
Melissia wrote:And if the troops get recast as resin, they'll raise the price MORE. Yay!
We've heard nothing at all to support this idea of them being put into Finecast. By all measures, they might have warehouses full of unsold Sisters models.
Kanluwen wrote:Scarey Nerd wrote:The Grog wrote:General interest. If a number of armies appear in tournaments, and sales of SoB stuff ticks up, then a Sisters book/models will come faster. If nothing much happens, then it will happen slower/if at all. Of course, if the rules are a mass of suck and model access/quality is terrible then the info provided will be of dubious utility.
But how can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment? It's a vicious cycle, noone plays them so they don't update them so noone plays them so they don't update them, spiralling into inadequacy.
"How can more armies start appearing when 2 troops and an HQ costs at minimum £86 at the moment?"--simple, the people already with armies of Sisters start playing them again because of updated rules.
But that would not equate to sales for GW, kan...
Do you think the Blood Angels minidex equated to sales for GW, Mel? The point of the minidex isn't to generate huge sales. It's to reassure the playerbase that they're "not forgotten".
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Post by: The Grog
Both would need to happen. And if they don't put out any resin Sisters over the next 6 months, we'll probably know they're just 'updating' the army so they can release 6th and say to the bitchers "See, Look, we made 5th ed rules for everybody!".
Or testing for some plastic/real book release, but this is GW. I'll believe that when I see it, and not before. GW's tested rules like that what? 3 times in their entire history?
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Post by: carmachu
JGrand wrote:
She just likes to complain, plain and simple. There is no way that the codex will be worse than what they have now. New models should be nice too. Complaining about only 5 per box? If the rumors are true and it really is such a catch all unit and clocks in at around $30 or less than I see no problems. The new GK units are 5 per box and still beat the metal prices.
When one invests alot of time and money into an army, one gets to complain. Your VERY niave to think that the WD army will be worse then what we have now. What if, for instance, sisters move to other slots then troops, and say repentia, adeptus arbites and militia are troops? Is that better or worse?
Folks arent happy its a WD release, and worry their work is ruined. I cant blame them, given GW's history and track record.....
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Post by: Kanluwen
The Grog wrote:Both would need to happen. And if they don't put out any resin Sisters over the next 6 months, we'll probably know they're just 'updating' the army so they can release 6th and say to the bitchers "See, Look, we made 5th ed rules for everybody!".
We know that they're updating the army. We also know, from the sculptor's mouth himself, that they're making plastics.
Or testing for some plastic/real book release, but this is GW. I'll believe that when I see it, and not before. GW's tested rules like that what? 3 times in their entire history?
Blood Angels wasn't a "test for some plastic/real book release".
They didn't release the rules as a "test". They released them as a "tide you over until the book is released". Automatically Appended Next Post: carmachu wrote:JGrand wrote:
She just likes to complain, plain and simple. There is no way that the codex will be worse than what they have now. New models should be nice too. Complaining about only 5 per box? If the rumors are true and it really is such a catch all unit and clocks in at around $30 or less than I see no problems. The new GK units are 5 per box and still beat the metal prices.
When one invests alot of time and money into an army, one gets to complain. Your VERY niave to think that the WD army will be worse then what we have now. What if, for instance, sisters move to other slots then troops, and say repentia, adeptus arbites and militia are troops? Is that better or worse?
I find it more naive to think that Sisters will be moved to other slots than troops. It's the complete opposite of what we saw with Grey Knights.
What's likely is we'll see a 'hero' system just like Grey Knights, where a Priest hero unlocks Militia, an Inquisitor unlocks Arbites, and several Sisters characters unlock different types of Sisters as Troops.
Folks arent happy its a WD release, and worry their work is ruined. I cant blame them, given GW's history and track record.....
History of what? Not doing anything you've suggested?
I'd be surprised if the Arbites are in. But not that surprised, considering they've been sitting on fething plastic stormtrooper kits that looked similar to old artwork of Fischig(a famous Arbites from the Eisenhorn series) for almost 3 years now.
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Post by: JGrand
When one invests alot of time and money into an army, one gets to complain. Your VERY niave to think that the WD army will be worse then what we have now. What if, for instance, sisters move to other slots then troops, and say repentia, adeptus arbites and militia are troops? Is that better or worse?
Folks arent happy its a WD release, and worry their work is ruined. I cant blame them, given GW's history and track record.....
Every codex brings change. To think it won't be heavily or almost entirely Sisters based is really being the naive one. The Blood Angels Codex came from a different edition and a time when the game designers were different in mindset as well. Even the worst 5th edition codex is head and shoulders over what Sisters have now.
Right now 10 Battle Sisters with a Veteran, Book, and 2 Meltas in a Rhino with smoke launchers is 202 points. Add in an Eviscerator and Imagnifier and that squad clocks in at 247.
9 Grey Hunters with a melta, banner, Wolf Guard with powerfist and combi melta, and a Rhino costs 227. I don't think I even need to go into the numerous advantages this squad has.
Simply getting the costs and rules of Sisters back in line with 5th edition WILL make them a better codex. Period.
As I've said before, it's not ideal but it is better than what they have. Also, it would be a great time to unload those unwanted models for anyone who is absolutely convinced the codex will be crap.
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Post by: carmachu
Kanluwen wrote:
I find it more naive to think that Sisters will be moved to other slots than troops. It's the complete opposite of what we saw with Grey Knights.
What's likely is we'll see a 'hero' system just like Grey Knights, where a Priest hero unlocks Militia, an Inquisitor unlocks Arbites, and several Sisters characters unlock different types of Sisters as Troops.
Given I was in a playtest group in the last codex before its release, I can say its not unheard of given some of the things tested out. I still liked one heavy tank and the motor pool, which was interesting.
But no, the only niave one is you. Its possible that could happen, but its also possible what I have stated, given GW's past history. But GW has no good will to bank on, given its history either.
History of what? Not doing anything you've suggested?
Releasing army lists in anything in a codex and then they fall by the way side. Or hell releasing min-dex's and then dumping them. BA and WOC are the only two that I recall that got that Chapter approved/ WD/ Min-dex treatment then come out full support. There are more then that that have fallen to the way side.
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Post by: Mannahnin
As pointed out previously, every army which already had a real codex or army book and which got a stopgap list in WD has gotten a real book again later. Whether we're talking about BA, WoC, or Sisters themselves, back in 3rd.
The only WD armies which have been dropped have been variant sub-lists. Like Kroot Mercs, Feral Orks, and the all-Dino Lizardman list. All of which were honestly pretty broken and clearly got no real playtesting. Kroot being underpowered (though with a couple of broken combos) and Feral Orks and Dinos being overpowered.
GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.
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Post by: Kanluwen
carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
I find it more naive to think that Sisters will be moved to other slots than troops. It's the complete opposite of what we saw with Grey Knights.
What's likely is we'll see a 'hero' system just like Grey Knights, where a Priest hero unlocks Militia, an Inquisitor unlocks Arbites, and several Sisters characters unlock different types of Sisters as Troops.
Given I was in a playtest group in the last codex before its release, I can say its not unheard of given some of the things tested out. I still liked one heavy tank and the motor pool, which was interesting.
Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.
If you're going to make bigshot claims, have bigshot evidence to back it up.
carmachu wrote:
But no, the only naive one is you. Its possible that could happen, but its also possible what I have stated, given GW's past history. But GW has no good will to bank on, given its history either.
Considering that we've been told the book will be 'Sisters of Battle centric', I'm saying you're very very likely to be wrong.
I'm also saying you're very very likely to be wrong because of the fact that even the Witchhunters book, which was supposed to be 'Inquisition centric', allowed for fielding an all Sisters army.
And that if you look at the way oh pretty much every single codex in existence right now is organized, there are characters which alter the FOC and allow for taking different types of troops in different slots.
carmachu wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:History of what? Not doing anything you've suggested?
Releasing army lists in anything in a codex and then they fall by the way side. Or hell releasing min-dex's and then dumping them. BA and WOC are the only two that I recall that got that Chapter approved/ WD/ Min-dex treatment then come out full support. There are more then that that have fallen to the way side.
Because those other "mini-dexes" were not actually intended to come out, fully supported as their own codex.
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
Chapter Approved was a testbed for ideas, yes. It was also where supplemental units were introduced.
It was not, however, going to be "Preview Codex" material.
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Post by: FalkorsRaiders
The Grog wrote: I choose to be cautiously optimistic. Producing a WD update to an old army that they don't have new models for once a year could be a great idea to bring stuff up to date (Eldar, Chaos, Tau, Demons, Orks, BT, DA) and test stuff for a new book release in a year or two. Or it could be somebody's dumb idea to rush and try to 'fix' SoB so they can release 6th without guilt and get back to more SM armies.
I don't know if you left them out because of the fact they are rumored to come out this year, but you forgot to list necrons.
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Post by: SabrX
JGrand wrote:When one invests alot of time and money into an army, one gets to complain. Your VERY niave to think that the WD army will be worse then what we have now. What if, for instance, sisters move to other slots then troops, and say repentia, adeptus arbites and militia are troops? Is that better or worse?
Folks arent happy its a WD release, and worry their work is ruined. I cant blame them, given GW's history and track record.....
Every codex brings change. To think it won't be heavily or almost entirely Sisters based is really being the naive one. The Blood Angels Codex came from a different edition and a time when the game designers were different in mindset as well. Even the worst 5th edition codex is head and shoulders over what Sisters have now.
Right now 10 Battle Sisters with a Veteran, Book, and 2 Meltas in a Rhino with smoke launchers is 202 points. Add in an Eviscerator and Imagnifier and that squad clocks in at 247.
9 Grey Hunters with a melta, banner, Wolf Guard with powerfist and combi melta, and a Rhino costs 227. I don't think I even need to go into the numerous advantages this squad has.
Simply getting the costs and rules of Sisters back in line with 5th edition WILL make them a better codex. Period.
As I've said before, it's not ideal but it is better than what they have. Also, it would be a great time to unload those unwanted models for anyone who is absolutely convinced the codex will be crap.
If you are adding Eviscerators and Imagnifer to the squad, then you really aren't playing Sisters correctly.
The best composition is either:
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
or
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
The current problem in the codex is the Rhino costing 50 points, extra armour 5 points, smoke 3 points, and search lights 1 point. On top of that, the Sisters of Battle Rhino has only one fire point.
IMO 11 points for a Sister, which is essentially a vet guard in power armour with bolter, is good deal. If they do bring Sister in line, they might bump the heavy flamer to 20 points, similar to IG one. But in return, I hope they increase the number of special weapons, allowing 3 Meltaguns.
Sisters aren't all that bad in current 5th ed. They only suffer in annihilation missions, lack or reserves, and not enough beefy vehicles against anti-range mech shooty spam.
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Post by: carmachu
Kanluwen wrote:
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
Chapter Approved was a testbed for ideas, yes. It was also where supplemental units were introduced.
It was not, however, going to be "Preview Codex" material.
They sure did sell alot of minis and implied that they were going to be armies for a long while, did they not? No matter how many times you wrap it up, yes the history is there.
Chaos dwarves are another fine example. WD to CA army book to hold over army to.....not much. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mannahnin wrote:
GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.
How's that choas dwarf army update coming BTW?
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Post by: JGrand
If you are adding Eviscerators and Imagnifer to the squad, then you really aren't playing Sisters correctly.
The best composition is either:
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
or
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
The current problem in the codex is the Rhino costing 50 points, extra armour 5 points, smoke 3 points, and search lights 1 point. On top of that, the Sisters of Battle Rhino has only one fire point.
That's all well and good, but they are still overcosted compared to the new codices troops.
IMO 11 points for a Sister, which is essentially a vet guard in power armour with bolter, is good deal. If they do bring Sister in line, they might bump the heavy flamer to 20 points, similar to IG one. But in return, I hope they increase the number of special weapons, allowing 3 Meltaguns.
As it stands they are too many points IMO. They should be 10 points per Sister. Maybe an additional 10 for a Vet Sister. I would not be opposed to them having stubborn base.
Sisters aren't all that bad in current 5th ed. They only suffer in annihilation missions, lack or reserves, and not enough beefy vehicles against anti-range mech shooty spam.
I wouldn't say they are the worst list but they are a bottom tier army...probably bottom 3.
As it stands Sisters:
Aren't competitive-especially in the tournament circuit.
Aren't fun to play- they are confined to a gimmicky Rhino rush mono-build.
Aren't flavorful- as is stands, what do you see (if you even see them played?) Cannoness, Battles Sisters, Immolator, Exorcists, Seraphim, and sometimes Inquisitors (for sleaze factor), and Celestians
So if they can make the new codex either competitive, fun, flavorful, or any of the above combinations then it's a better codex. New models (which have been rumored) are a plus as well.
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Post by: Kanluwen
carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
Chapter Approved was a testbed for ideas, yes. It was also where supplemental units were introduced.
It was not, however, going to be "Preview Codex" material.
They sure did sell alot of minis and implied that they were going to be armies for a long while, did they not? No matter how many times you wrap it up, yes the history is there.
The history's there if you're making it up, sure.
Nothing in the campaign books implied that they were "going to be armies for a long while".
And your "they sure did sell a lot of minis" bit is also a fallacy. The majority of the "kits" or "armies" were made up of conversions to existing pieces. Lost and the Damned were available as a bag stuffed with Catachan, Ork, and Chaos bits. That's not "selling a lot of minis". That's selling " a lot of bits".
The same thing happened with Storm of Chaos, incidentally, where almost everything(there WERE a few kits released that were not simple conversions. The Grudge Thrower, Crom the Conqueror, the Orc boss, the Slayer-King, and a few others I can't name off the top of my head) was done as conversion kits or 'package' deals.
Chaos dwarves are another fine example. WD to CA army book to hold over army to.....not much.
Pretty sure the ' CA army book' you're referring to is "Ravening Hordes". If that's the case, then it seems they got the same treatment as Squats--they just were let to fade into obscurity and become a piece of the background rather than an army on the tabletop.
You know, kind of like Dogs of War and Tilea.
Mannahnin wrote:
GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.
How's that choas dwarf army update coming BTW?
I'd say pretty good. The Chaos Dwarfs were never 'squatted', they've kept a place in the background. They made an appearance in The Storm Of Chaos alongside of the Hellcannon, and now Forge World is doing a line of Chaos Dwarfs.
You were saying something about them getting "not much"?
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Post by: Mannahnin
carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Chapter Approved was a testbed for ideas, yes. It was also where supplemental units were introduced.
It was not, however, going to be "Preview Codex" material.
They sure did sell alot of minis and implied that they were going to be armies for a long while, did they not? No matter how many times you wrap it up, yes the history is there.
I'm more with Carmachu re: Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror. The beginning of the SoC book said directly that it was functionally an additional volume in the interlocking 6th ed Chaos army books. That was genuinely misleading, what GW did there, and disappointing.
OTOH, the most standalone of the armies in there, the Daemons, DID wind up eventually getting their own book. Kan, GW did sell A LOT of metal Daemon models during the heydey of that army list.
---------------------
carmachu wrote:Chaos dwarves are another fine example. WD to CA army book to hold over army to.....not much. Mannahnin wrote:GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.
How's that choas dwarf army update coming BTW?
Did Chaos Dwarves have an Army Book, then a WD update? My recollection was that they were in original Ravening Hordes, then got a WD list, then DID get a full army book, and THEN were discontinued. Which is, if anything, more support for the idea that a Sisters book will be forthcoming. Though really the CDs are kind of an odd case, because they did get a couple-page list in the 6th ed Ravening Hordes booklet, and now GW is sort-of reviving them via Forgeworld.
GW's repeated statements that they don't intend to discontinue any more armies all long-postdate the loss of the CDs. They were made in response to fan complaints about the discontinuation of sub-armies like Kroot Mercs.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Mannahnin wrote:My recollection was that they were in original Ravening Hordes, then got a WD list, then DID get a full army book, and THEN were discontinued.
You recall incorrectly. Chaos Dwarfs NEVER got a full army book, they got a book that collected the WD articles(that were spread across several issues, not a single list) together into a semi-coherent list. It was even called White Dwarf presents Warhammer Chaos Dwarfs. After that they got another Ravening Hordes list and haven't been touched until the new FW stuff.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Mannahnin wrote:carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Chapter Approved was a testbed for ideas, yes. It was also where supplemental units were introduced.
It was not, however, going to be "Preview Codex" material.
They sure did sell alot of minis and implied that they were going to be armies for a long while, did they not? No matter how many times you wrap it up, yes the history is there.
I'm more with Carmachu re: Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror. The beginning of the SoC book said directly that it was functionally an additional volume in the interlocking 6th ed Chaos army books. That was genuinely misleading, what GW did there, and disappointing.
I'm not sure where you really got that reading from Gav Thorpe's intro piece.
Gav Thorpe wrote: Two years ago, we embarked on the Hordes of Chaos project. Back then, I wrote of our plans to release three Chaos-themed supplements for Warhammer. After Hordes of Chaos came Beasts of Chaos, and this three year project is now culminating in this volume-- Storm of Chaos.
Storm of Chaos is not a Warhammer Armies book in the traditional sense. It contains army lists, of course, but is much more than that. The contents of this book have been written to allow players to fight out their own Chaos invasion (or any other invasion, if you fancy it!) and in particular, to set their battles in the terrible time known as the Storm of Chaos, when the Lord of the End Times, Archaon, led his horde south into the Empire and besieged the city of Middenheim.
That reads more to me like it was a rules supplement like Lustria, not an actual army book.
OTOH, the most standalone of the armies in there, the Daemons, DID wind up eventually getting their own book. Kan, GW did sell A LOT of metal Daemon models during the heydey of that army list.
They also sold 'a lot of metal Daemon models' during the Hordes of Chaos book, where Daemons were pretty heavy into the list as well.
I can say pretty knowingly that I have no information about the sales figures of those particular metals, so I can't attest to that.
I can however say that I know the list was popular, but it was mainly popular with the folks within my locality who already had a large stash of Daemon models.
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Post by: gorgon
Kanluwen wrote:Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.
He's telling the truth...I know guys in his group who were involved. If you didn't notice, Codex: Witch Hunters was released quite some time ago.
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
As others have pointed out, Codex: EoT was a completely legal, valid codex. Most assumed at the time that armies like LatD would at least be "absorbed" into a future Chaos codex. Witness how the Speed Freeks from Codex: Armageddon were kept mostly viable in the Ork codex v4. Seer Councils from EoT made their way into Codex: Eldar v4. It should also be pointed out that BTs from Codex: Armageddon did get their own, full codex.
You're portraying the campaign books as having a very linear outcome, and that's simply not accurate. Some armies became full armies. Others migrated in some form into their respective "main" codices. Others went nowhere.
Note that I think it's wrong to be pushing the panic button re: Sisters. To me, a WD codex is evidence that they want to continue them, and I dunno if that was an obvious slam dunk.
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Post by: carmachu
Kanluwen wrote:
Pretty sure the 'CA army book' you're referring to is "Ravening Hordes". If that's the case, then it seems they got the same treatment as Squats--they just were let to fade into obscurity and become a piece of the background rather than an army on the tabletop.
You know, if your going to argue GW history,perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY. Chaos dwarves, during the golden age of GW(pre-going public) were an actually WD army. Then they got an actually army book CA/ GW presents Chaos dwarves. Then eventually got a "Ravening hordes update to 'hold them over". ANd have pretty much been squated since. FW not withstanding. <text redacted; unnecessary rudeness> Automatically Appended Next Post: Platuan4th wrote:Mannahnin wrote:My recollection was that they were in original Ravening Hordes, then got a WD list, then DID get a full army book, and THEN were discontinued.
You recall incorrectly. Chaos Dwarfs NEVER got a full army book, they got a book that collected the WD articles(that were spread across several issues, not a single list) together into a semi-coherent list. It was even called White Dwarf presents Warhammer Chaos Dwarfs. After that they got another Ravening Hordes list and haven't been touched until the new FW stuff.
No, that was an army book, GW presents. Much more then just a collection.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
carmachu wrote:
No, that was an army book, GW presents. Much more then just a collection.
No, it wasn't. Try opening a copy sometime. It wasn't organized like the Army books of the time, it was just reprints of the various articles but together into one book. It was NOTHING like the 4th/5th ed Army Books. If you're going to tell someone "perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY ", perhaps you should do the same. Here's the cover:  For reference, here's the cover of the Wood Elf book from the same time. Notice the lack of the White Dwarf presents:  Also: "However, unlike the other armies they were not given a proper Warhammer Armies book but instead had material that had already been published over several issues of White Dwarf issued as a single publication: White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs. This included all of the standard army book contents but the material was not edited to work as a single book." Sorry, Carmachu, but you're wrong.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
Mannahnin wrote:
I'm more with Carmachu re: Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror. The beginning of the SoC book said directly that it was functionally an additional volume in the interlocking 6th ed Chaos army books. That was genuinely misleading, what GW did there, and disappointing.
Eye of Terror specifically stated "Not only can these army lists be used during the Eye of Terror campaign, but they can also be used for ordinary games of Warhammer 40k as well."
722
Post by: Kanluwen
gorgon wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.
He's telling the truth...I know guys in his group who were involved. If you didn't notice, Codex: Witch Hunters was released quite some time ago.
So what the feth relevance does that have to do with the upcoming book?
Absolutely none.
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
As others have pointed out, Codex: EoT was a completely legal, valid codex.
For a campaign. Anyone who expected the book to continually be updated was deluding themselves
Most assumed at the time that armies like LatD would at least be "absorbed" into a future Chaos codex.
Gee. It's almost like people jumped to a conclusion and were wrong. Huh. Who knew such a thing could happen?
And I really hate to say it: but there's still nothing stopping people from using Guard to represent LatD. They lose flavor that way, but who didn't lose flavor in the transition from the Doctrines codex to what we have now?
Witness how the Speed Freeks from Codex: Armageddon were kept mostly viable in the Ork codex v4. Seer Councils from EoT made their way into Codex: Eldar v4.
Seer Councils were in before EoT. See the "Codex: Craftworld Eldar" for details.
Speed Freeks I can't comment on, as I don't have the Ork army book from the prior edition to what we have now.
It should also be pointed out that BTs from Codex: Armageddon did get their own, full codex.
Which make them a huge outlier. What's your point?
You're portraying the campaign books as having a very linear outcome, and that's simply not accurate.
Really? Let's look back.
Some armies became full armies.
ONE army became a full army.
Others migrated in some form into their respective "main" codices.
The Seer Council example is a bad one to make the point, however. They already existed.
Others went nowhere.
Lost and the Damned, as it stands, have 3 lists in existence right now. They're all Imperial Armour.
There's technically a 4th, but it's more of a "Crusade Era Marines/Army" styled list.
Note that I think it's wrong to be pushing the panic button re: Sisters. To me, a WD codex is evidence that they want to continue them, and I dunno if that was an obvious slam dunk.
And that's the problem. To assume that a WD codex now when we keep getting told that "6th edition is closer than we think" means the army is being squatted is stupid.
carmachu wrote:You know, if your going to argue GW history,perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY.
I'd suggest you do the same since it seems Platuan pretty much schooled you.
Chaos dwarves, during the golden age of GW(pre-going public) were an actually WD army.
Then they got an actually army book CA/GW presents Chaos dwarves.
Wood Elves got a similar book. Did you think they were 'squatted'?
Then eventually got a "Ravening hordes update to 'hold them over". And have pretty much been squated since. FW not withstanding.
FW and Storm of Chaos not withstanding. Or the fluff mentions of them in the Ogre Kingdoms book.
It's pretty clear that they haven't been "squatted" so stop using that term. It specifically deals with ALL references and ALL aspects of the race suddenly disappearing.
That hasn't been the case with Chaos Dwarfs. They still are around. They've made repeated mention of that fact.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
And just to put the final nail in the Chaos Dwarf book talk, the actual release ad, courtesy of Stuff of Legends:  Please note the last paragraph: "This full-colour book is a compilation of all the Chaos Dwarf articles first printed in White Dwarf plus additional unpublished material."
6013
Post by: Xelkireth
Seriously... Personal attacks and ridiculous amounts of bickering is tantamount to...
26192
Post by: Claimh_Solais
but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels
We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the sisters
5528
Post by: The Grog
SabrX wrote:
The best composition is either:
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
or
-10 Battle Sisters, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucius, Brazier or Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke
If you field combis you may as well field dual combis. Combimelta + Brazier, 2h + 1h. The real problem with Sisters is that once out of their Rhinos they get rocked by the competition. You need to obliterate whatever you are shooting at, because 4 marines with a power weapon or fist stands a disturbing chance of taking a 10 woman squad. More importantly, they tie you up pretty much forever and weaken the concentration of force you need for the next focus fire target.
Unless you run Seraphim, who are ruinously expensive. They can be effective, but man, 3rd ed jump pack costs.
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
Claimh_Solais wrote:but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels
We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the customers
Fixed that for you
41472
Post by: kenzosan
iv heard rumors that sisters were after necrons.
iv also heard that the artist behind d.eldar was really inspired to work on sisters or eldar. granted that could mean eldar are next.
26192
Post by: Claimh_Solais
Scarey Nerd wrote:Claimh_Solais wrote:but the scary part is that (and I think it will happen now)
is that we have too wait say 3-4 years fore a REAL codex and new minis
that's what happened to Blood angels
We will only get a WD dex so the SOB army is playable and that's it, I really hope Im wrong on this one ...but GW hate the customers
Fixed that for you
No customers buy Space marines and Deamons so its a good army
no one buy tomb kings ..but GW think they are nice soo lets make it anyway
many like SOBS but ..naa GW think they wont sell .. 
21664
Post by: poipo32
Omegus wrote:The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.
I just want to point out that Dark Eldar never got a stopgap codex, that didn't save them from waiting heck'uv'a long time.
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Post by: Marthike
No customer buy space marine? Was that sarcasm?
41472
Post by: kenzosan
poipo32 wrote:Omegus wrote:The issue is not so much that the rules may be worse than the current ones (although every single WD codex has been atrocious so far), it's that a stopgap codex means waiting that much longer for the real deal.
I just want to point out that Dark Eldar never got a stopgap codex, that didn't save them from waiting heck'uv'a long time.
necrons.
6013
Post by: Xelkireth
Dark Eldar had to wait longer. Your feeble plea has fallen on deaf ears.
26
Post by: carmachu
Platuan4th wrote:carmachu wrote:
No, that was an army book, GW presents. Much more then just a collection.
No, it wasn't. Try opening a copy sometime. It wasn't organized like the Army books of the time, it was just reprints of the various articles but together into one book. It was NOTHING like the 4th/5th ed Army Books.
If you're going to tell someone "perhaps you really really really need to ACTUALLY LEARN GW HISTORY ", perhaps you should do the same.
Having owned a book and army,. GW treated it JUST LIKE an army book. Including updates in RH.,
So yes, it was an army book. Even though thats what it says, THEY, GW treated it just like an army for a couple of editions. If memory serves from 4th through 6th edition(w/ RH)
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Post by: nosferatu1001
So despite being shown you were hideously incorrect, you're still continuing?
Sheesh.
The last two WD books got a full treatment later. There is an obvious need for this to remove some of the painful contradictions between the GK and WH dexes. While it may be bland, would people complain if all they did was give you wargear comparable to 5th edition wargear?
17155
Post by: bhsman
I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD STOP ARGUING OVER MINOR POINTS OF NERDERY, BUT AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS THAT SENTIMENT POLITELY.
Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.
As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.
Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone
So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith
I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.
So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?
Random tidbits
All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters
Specifics
Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters
St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.
Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?
Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports
Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.
Exocists: Pretty much same as before.
This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post.
14529
Post by: Erasoketa
This is the Spanish cover of the Chaos Dwarfs Army Book. I never read it, so I don't know if it was a collection of arcticles or an army book per se. The cover is the standard style of the Army Books of the time, without any details regarding the WD.
Anyway, I thought this was about Sisters of Battle.
181
Post by: gorgon
Kanluwen wrote:gorgon wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Which "last codex"? Since when does GW playtest? All accounts are they got rid of that years ago.
He's telling the truth...I know guys in his group who were involved. If you didn't notice, Codex: Witch Hunters was released quite some time ago.
So what the feth relevance does that have to do with the upcoming book?
Absolutely none.
Then why did you challenge him on the point? I don't understand why you took the "bigshot" tone with him in that context or the general rudeness.
And I'm not going to get drawn into a point-by-point discussion regarding campaign books. The facts are that they were considered to be official material at the time -- by players and by company reps if you would have asked them -- and that some armies did have life after GW (probably wisely) changed its mind about the whole campaign book approach. I'm not arguing anything else -- just injecting some clarity on those points.
Regarding Chaos Dwarfs, you guys are correct that it was a WD Presents book. However, note that it was for all intents and purposes an army book and treated as such. It was the same size as an army book and printed similarly, with a bestiary, army list, artwork, etc. The material was completely official, and was legal at any tourney you'd take it to. There was no question about its status from the player base or the company. IIRC, they originally toyed with releasing IG in the same fashion (and in fact some IG material did appear in WD in advance of its first official codex), but in the end they decided to go the standard codex route with the army.
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Any thoughts as to this?
"The thing that puzzles me about this WD Codex is what White Dwarf is going to advertise for it? As it stands, there are few-to-no SoB models being made by GW as they haven't been re-done in Finecast and are either not being created or are still metal models. Presumably they're not releasing plastic models with the WD Codex as in that case they would have surely released a full, print Codex to support it (the plastics being priority for GW, the Codex the supporter).
So by that reckoning it means that they are either being re-done in finecast, or are having no models re-done which means there are very few models to support the SoB and allow new players to create an army.
If they are being re-done in finecast, then that begs the question as to why they weren't re-done in finecast from the start or why they're not listed for Finecast Wave 2 in August judging from a rumour thread or why they're finecasting them only to release plastic models later?
So, to me new plastics seem (highly) unlikely. Fine(re)casts seem unlikely. Which surely leaves no new models? Which would beg the question; what would WD wax lyrical about in regards to wanting your money?
I'm confused... "
41472
Post by: kenzosan
Xelkireth wrote:Dark Eldar had to wait longer. Your feeble plea has fallen on deaf ears.
it wasnt a plea, it was an agreement. necrons and de, neither got "hotfixes" so to speak.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
kenzosan wrote: necrons and de, neither got "hotfixes" so to speak.
Unless you count the DE re-printing where they added Draconites and Archonites so that you could do Wych armies without Lilith as well as a few other tweaks(like new vehicle gear). But yeah, the Dark Eldar didn't get any "hotfixes".
29408
Post by: Melissia
Kanluwen wrote:Melissia wrote:And if the troops get recast as resin, they'll raise the price MORE. Yay!
We've heard nothing at all to support this idea of them being put into Finecast. By all measures, they might have warehouses full of unsold Sisters models.
But we DO have lots to suggest a price raise.
Seeing as GW pretty much does little more than that to begin with. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mannahnin wrote:As pointed out previously, every army which already had a real codex or army book and which got a stopgap list in WD has gotten a real book again later. Whether we're talking about BA, WoC, or Sisters themselves, back in 3rd.
The only WD armies which have been dropped have been variant sub-lists. Like Kroot Mercs, Feral Orks, and the all-Dino Lizardman list. All of which were honestly pretty broken and clearly got no real playtesting. Kroot being underpowered (though with a couple of broken combos) and Feral Orks and Dinos being overpowered.
GW may have a history, but the pessimism about this flies in the face of it.
I never claimed Sisters wouldnt' get a REAL codex after...
... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck
10387
Post by: SabrX
Melissia wrote:
... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck
If the recent rumors posted by BoK about nerfing Sisters to only 6++ and no new dedicated transports other than their mediocre AV11 vehicles is true, then Melissia is right. The new WD codex is going to suck.
I can't stand mixing henchmen into my pure SoB army. I don't want to become dependent on Crusaders and Chimeras for assault and anti-tank shooting protection.
12186
Post by: Sersi
SabrX wrote:Melissia wrote:
... only that the WD/PDF codex is gonna suck
If the recent rumors posted by BoK about nerfing Sisters to only 6++ and no new dedicated transports other than their mediocre AV11 vehicles is true, then Melissia is right. The new WD codex is going to suck.
I can't stand mixing henchmen into my pure SoB army. I don't want to become dependent on Crusaders and Chimeras for assault and anti-tank shooting protection.
Your reading that wrong. The 6++ invulnerable save is a a special rule for faithful units, which now includes Repentia as well. So its in addition to the standard 3+ armor save of Battle Sisters. Repentia apparently, get their current 4+ armor save, FNP, and a 6++ invulnerable save! I'd say that makes them worth taking, as they'll be far more resilient than they are currently. I'm not seeing anything to complain about with those rules.
As far as the AV11 transport vehicles go; how's that any different that what they have now. As far as we know Sister vehicles might get some additional save if a faithful unit is embarked. Kinda like the GK's save VS psy-powers for vehicles.
Honestly all this panicking is a bit pre-mature. Given the army in question can't we all have a little more Faith?
17155
Post by: bhsman
How does giving them a 6++ and having essentially the same dedicated transports as most Space Marine variants make them suck? Maybe we should wait and read the entirety of the rules before passing judgement.
41472
Post by: kenzosan
bok has officially made me reconsider my stance. lol, i actually feel like id spend the excess of money for this army now. damnit! i think ill cap my eldar to a 1k army before i do that... but sisters are my favourite army. ugh! i hate you gw, you make me spend too much money and yet you torment me so with this hate on anything not marine. haha!
539
Post by: cygnnus
Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(
Valete,
JohnS
41472
Post by: kenzosan
cygnnus wrote:Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(
Valete,
JohnS
i totally expected this. grey knights get inquisition and sisters got screwed, marine love ftw!
43778
Post by: Pouncey
bhsman wrote:I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD STOP ARGUING OVER MINOR POINTS OF NERDERY, BUT AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS THAT SENTIMENT POLITELY.
Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok, with that said let us get on with why you are really here some SoB rumors.
As always let us start with the easy ones that pretty much everyone figured was going to happen.
Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs
Inquisition elements gone
So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith
I am amazed reading around the Net how quite few people had great guesses on how the new faith works. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.
So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?
Random tidbits
All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters
Specifics
Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special Characters
St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.
Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?
Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports
Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.
Exocists: Pretty much same as before.
This is it for now gents and dames. If you have any questions let me know I can see if can get them answered sometime this week with another post.
I like, I like. ^^
Especially that part about acts of faith activating on a 5+ and the faith point pool working SOMEWHAT like the WHFB power dice. Can't count the number of times I've chosen not to use an Act of Faith that would really have made a difference, all because of the miniscule chance for it to actually activate due to small/large current unit sizes. Didn't want to waste a faith point at the time, since they were a limited commodity.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
kenzosan wrote:cygnnus wrote:Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(
Valete,
JohnS
i totally expected this. grey knights get inquisition and sisters got screwed, marine love ftw!
Oh, it gets worse. You have to roll for each Sisters unit before the game begins. On a 6, they get access to veteran sister options. On a 1, they were forced to donate faith blood for armor painting (Sanguine tithe) to the Grey knights before the battle begins--and thus suffer a -1 to WS/ BS.
10387
Post by: SabrX
Sersi wrote:
Your reading that wrong. The 6++ invulnerable save is a a special rule for faithful units, which now includes Repentia as well. So its in addition to the standard 3+ armor save of Battle Sisters. Repentia apparently, get their current 4+ armor save, FNP, and a 6++ invulnerable save! I'd say that makes them worth taking, as they'll be far more resilient than they are currently. I'm not seeing anything to complain about with those rules.
As far as the AV11 transport vehicles go; how's that any different that what they have now. As far as we know Sister vehicles might get some additional save if a faithful unit is embarked. Kinda like the GK's save VS psy-powers for vehicles.
According to the rumors, each unit has their own specific faith power, which goes off on a 5+. We don't know how many dice we can roll to attempt a 5+, but the previous roll equal or higher than the number of models was a lot more reliable. Even if they did retain Spirit of the Martyr, having it go off on a 5+ is unreliable (unless you are rolling 2D6).
There's pros and cons to FNP. Pros it isn't negated by AP4. Cons, it's negated by Str8. Either way, according to the rumors, they are still foot slogging, which is craptastic for a unit that's sole purpose is assault. Until they have a reliable delivery method, they are not worth taking and forever will remain as paper weights.
Also, the problem with current sisters is lacking armor better than 11. If you think this isn't a problem, then I challenge you to play against Tyranids with 3 squad of 3 Hive Guards, Space Wolves with 18 Long Fangs with 15 Missile Launchers, Imperial Guard with a plethora of Vendettas and heavy support anti-tank range (including Autocannon Heavy Weapons team combine with orders), Tau fire Knife and Railguns, Dark Eldar dark lance spam, or Eldar mech. If you have played mech Sisters against any of these armies, then you will understand the current Sisters of Battle plight in lack of better armored transport. Even if you play MSU Immolator Spam with 12 tanks at 2000 points, you will still have problems against volume of anti-tank, which is so common in tournaments. This is one of the Achilles heal to the current Sisters. They depend so much on mobility. Without it, they suffer. To fix this, the new Sisters needs at least AV12 protection. I was hopping they would have the new Repressor with front AV12 and side AV11. Oh well. 
41472
Post by: kenzosan
so its the red thirst for ba but it actually has a down side. joy of joys
12893
Post by: evilsponge
I like that acts of faith are literally acts of faith now. Just roll the dice and pray.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The problem with current sisters isn't lacking better armor. Space marines do just fine with rhinos chassis. The problem is sisters units themselves are a joke, and acts of faith gives them the opportunity to be mediocre.
41472
Post by: kenzosan
evilsponge wrote:I like that acts of faith are literally acts of faith now. Just roll the dice and pray.
The problem with current sisters isn't lacking better armor. Space marines do just fine with rhinos chassis. The problem is sisters units themselves are a joke, and acts of faith gives them the opportunity to be mediocre.
acts of faith were dice rolls before. i think 4 were equal to or under the squads total number and 3 were over the squads total, ic's were leadership.
thats kinda were the inquisition came in imo.
4351
Post by: ubermosher
bhsman wrote:...Maybe we should wait and read the entirety of the rules before passing judgement.
You know it's just the Internet rumor-hashing cycle. You almost sound like you think this time it'll be different.
Let me expedite this thread:
"Why SoB? My codex has suffered more injustice."
"I've been playing since 4th/3rd/Rogue Trader/I invented 40k."
"I don't want people jumping on my army's bandwagon, I like being the only SoB player/Why doesn't GW support my army better?"
"White Dwarf lists stinks"
"This is BS, I've waited 10 years and gotten nothing/This is BS, I'd rather have nothing now and get a real codex."
"Marines get all the good stuff!"
"Hurr" or somesuch
"Arby" or somesuch
"Fail" or somesuch
" SoB will now wait 1/2/5/129/infinite years to see a real codex."
"These rumors are weak."
"These rumors are over the top."
"These rumors are great."
"These rumors stink."
"These rumors don't sound right"
Some attempt to be clever with an image of salt.
"I will sell my models"
"I am never playing 40k again"
"I'm going to go broke"
"You know nothing"
"No, you know nothing"
"I can't wait"
"Ooh just in time for my birthday."
/thread
12186
Post by: Sersi
According to the rumors, each unit has their own specific faith power, which goes off on a 5+. We don't know how many dice we can roll to attempt a 5+, but the previous roll equal or higher than the number of models was a lot more reliable. Even if they did retain Spirit of the Martyr, having it go off on a 5+ is unreliable (unless you are rolling 2D6).
True, it depends on how the rules actually play out. If its any thing like WF power dice, it might not be to bad, as each faithful unit gets D6 Faith Points to burn each turn.
There's pros and cons to FNP. Pros it isn't negated by AP4. Cons, it's negated by Str8. Either way, according to the rumors, they are still foot slogging, which is craptastic for a unit that's sole purpose is assault. Until they have a reliable delivery method, they are not worth taking and forever will remain as paper weights.
FNP is negated but STR8 but you'll still get your 6++ invulnerable. Yes, they still have issues like their lack of a dedicated transport. But their improved resilience and ability to go down swinging still makes them better than what we have now, so it's not a nerf as you suggested.
Also, the problem with current sisters is lacking armor better than 11. If you think this isn't a problem, then I challenge you to play against Tyranids with 3 squad of 3 Hive Guards, Space Wolves with 18 Long Fangs with 15 Missile Launchers, Imperial Guard with a plethora of Vendettas and heavy support anti-tank range (including Autocannon Heavy Weapons team combine with orders), Tau fire Knife and Railguns, Dark Eldar dark lance spam, or Eldar mech. If you have played mech Sisters against any of these armies, then you will understand the current Sisters of Battle plight in lack of better armored transport. Even if you play MSU Immolator Spam with 12 tanks at 2000 points, you will still have problems against volume of anti-tank, which is so common in tournaments. This is one of the Achilles heal to the current Sisters. They depend so much on mobility. Without it, they suffer. To fix this, the new Sisters needs at least AV12 protection. I was hopping they would have the new Repressor with front AV12 and side AV11. Oh well.
That not at all the point I was making. You suggested that these rumors nerfed them and now they suck. But in actual fact they have the same vehicles as before. So, while their situation hasn't improved; it also hasn't worsened. Hey, I'd like some new stuff too. But if this is just a stop-gap codex, its not likely to include rules for models that aren't already released. So, we still get those Repressors, eventually. But I highly doubt that we'll be getting anything other that the WD codex this year.
26489
Post by: Revarien
FNP would be negated on str 6 if they remain t3... as it would cause instant death.
Some of these rules are making me feel a tad better, but I'm still worried about support after the WD rules.
10387
Post by: SabrX
6++ is a joke and FNP Repentias doesn't make them anymore durable. Its easy to shoot T3 models with volume of anti-infantry shooting. They will die in droves to shooting before they can ever assault. So unless there's a way to guarantee that they'll reach assault (perhaps fleet combined with the rumored scout and infiltrate?) they are useless.
Sersi, how often do you make 6++ saves when being assaulted my Terminators, Howling Banshees, Grey Knights, or Monstrous Creatures? If on average make more than 1/6 of them, then I question your dice.
41472
Post by: kenzosan
charge from a rhino? its what i do with my stormraven a lot. if your an assault based unit you better move fast as hell or have a lot of ya or a tank.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
kenzosan wrote:so its the red thirst for ba but it actually has a down side. joy of joys
You know that was a really obvious joke, right?
21358
Post by: Dysartes
cygnnus wrote:Karamazov is gone?!?? Nuts... Anyone interested in a bare metal (non-Finecast!) unassembled Karamazov? :-(
Valete,
JohnS
Possibly - shoot me a PM.....
11856
Post by: Arschbombe
ubermosher wrote:
Let me expedite this thread:
"Why SoB? My codex has suffered more injustice."
"I've been playing since 4th/3rd/Rogue Trader/I invented 40k."
"I don't want people jumping on my army's bandwagon, I like being the only SoB player/Why doesn't GW support my army better?"
"White Dwarf lists stinks"
"This is BS, I've waited 10 years and gotten nothing/This is BS, I'd rather have nothing now and get a real codex."
"Marines get all the good stuff!"
"Hurr" or somesuch
"Arby" or somesuch
"Fail" or somesuch
"SoB will now wait 1/2/5/129/infinite years to see a real codex."
"These rumors are weak."
"These rumors are over the top."
"These rumors are great."
"These rumors stink."
"These rumors don't sound right"
Some attempt to be clever with an image of salt.
"I will sell my models"
"I am never playing 40k again"
"I'm going to go broke"
"You know nothing"
"No, you know nothing"
"I can't wait"
"Ooh just in time for my birthday."
/thread
Raw awesomeness. LOL. I think there's a psychology thesis in there somewhere.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
Sersi wrote:
Honestly all this panicking is a bit pre-mature. Given the army in question can't we all have a little more Faith?
haha, Sersi wins the thread.
Now let's lock this thing and call it a night.
38279
Post by: Mr Hyena
The loss of the Inquisition really puts me off Sisters of Battle. Going to have to change my Ordo Hereticus army now.
41664
Post by: ShatteredBlade
I just..really don't know how to take this news, and I am simply hoping that this codex is of the quality of the blood angels and dark angels get me by's of the past.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
I am not sure if dropping half the units (from an already short army list), dropping the point costs of standards and raising the price for standards is the right strategy for renewing interest in Sororitas. And changing the background (no more Inquisition) without having a place to describe that change is also weird. All this doesn't make sense, so fits the recent GW decisions
43910
Post by: JaqTaar
Kroothawk wrote:And changing the background (no more Inquisition) without having a place to describe that change is also weird.
It's being changed back to what it was like before. If the Inquisition connection isn't mentioned at all, there's no need to explain its absence.
29408
Post by: Melissia
SabrX wrote:There's pros and cons to FNP. Pros it isn't negated by AP4. Cons, it's negated by Str8.
Str6.
Sisters are T3. So FNP on Sisters would be negated by strength 6. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sersi wrote:each faithful unit gets D6 Faith Points to burn each turn.
... what.
Goddamnit. Why D6? That's just... ugh. Fething random ass dice rolls.
FNP is negated but STR8 but you'll still get your 6++ invulnerable. Yes, they still have issues like their lack of a dedicated transport. But their improved resilience and ability to go down swinging still makes them better than what we have now, so it's not a nerf as you suggested.
Noone suggested it was a nerf.
Only that repentia would still suck. Which is dependent on the price really.
Sersi wrote:That not at all the point I was making. You suggested that these rumors nerfed them and now they suck.
... no... that's not what was said. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kroothawk wrote:And changing the background (no more Inquisition) without having a place to describe that change is also weird.
jjWhat change? Sisters were never strongly tied to the Inquisition to begin with, and that was just there so they'd have an excuse to copy/paste stuff from the daemonhunters codex anyway.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
Kanluwen wrote: to reassure the playerbase that they're "not forgotten".
All I say to that is Tyranid Second Wave.
Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Blood Angels. All came out afterwards. All got second waves. Guard have had a 'second tank wave' and Marines can pretty much utilise any Marine wave themselves.
Tyranid. Second. Wave.
With regards to a SoB WD Codex? Eh. WoC all over again - kill the 'odd' bit now that it has its own codex/army/etc.
And no, 'finecosting' my metal 'nids doesn't count as a second wave
4395
Post by: Deadshane1
Wow, those rumours are pretty bad. "Lets ruin an army!"
Shame we cannot keep the current dex. It's actually quite strong right now, and I'm not talking overpriced immo spam. I dunno where people are getting this "sisters are non-competetive" idea. People should get out more. (I LOL'd when someone said that they were bottom 3rd teir competetive) Just b/c not many people play a codex doesnt mean it's weak, there may not be MANY uber-competetive builds out there but the codex has a couple of REALLY strong builds still.
I'm not certain those rumours are correct though. Faith seems TERRIBLE and with needless dice rolls.
Sisters armies (unless fully mounted) need a redemptionist or militia unit. It's fluffy, fun, sells models and is appealing to horde players where MEQ players can still go fully mounted.
9920
Post by: dumplingman
my big worry is that repressors won't be in the WD codex. But otherwise I'll take what I can get.
19529
Post by: warhammersupernerd
The only real problem with SoB at the moment are their models, some of there units (Ok, mainly just the cannones) are some of the best value units in the game! My only quarrel with them is the fact that their an expensive all metal army (thats before I factor in being in Australia).
Ok, so they're not the most competitive army on the table, but I would still collect them if they had new models
Edit: On that note, I don't play SoB so I can't really make a valid point. Disregard what I said if I'm wrong
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
The Loss of the inquisition and all its trappings was not unexpected though.
So like Warriors of Chaos, who certainly suffered with their WD list, as mostly it was there to take away their Daemon allies, with little to no gain.
We'll have to hope that when the Sisters emerge from the flames of their ressurection via an actual Dex. They will have gained some lovely new things to put them back in the fight.
In the long run I'm happy to see them return to their original flavour myself, but it'll be some lean times for SoB players waiting for their new book I'll be reckoning.
14152
Post by: CT GAMER
ubermosher wrote:bhsman wrote:...Maybe we should wait and read the entirety of the rules before passing judgement.
You know it's just the Internet rumor-hashing cycle. You almost sound like you think this time it'll be different.
Let me expedite this thread:
"Why SoB? My codex has suffered more injustice."
"I've been playing since 4th/3rd/Rogue Trader/I invented 40k."
"I don't want people jumping on my army's bandwagon, I like being the only SoB player/Why doesn't GW support my army better?"
"White Dwarf lists stinks"
"This is BS, I've waited 10 years and gotten nothing/This is BS, I'd rather have nothing now and get a real codex."
"Marines get all the good stuff!"
"Hurr" or somesuch
"Arby" or somesuch
"Fail" or somesuch
" SoB will now wait 1/2/5/129/infinite years to see a real codex."
"These rumors are weak."
"These rumors are over the top."
"These rumors are great."
"These rumors stink."
"These rumors don't sound right"
Some attempt to be clever with an image of salt.
"I will sell my models"
"I am never playing 40k again"
"I'm going to go broke"
"You know nothing"
"No, you know nothing"
"I can't wait"
"Ooh just in time for my birthday."
/dakkadakka
fixed that for you...
It this is different then any other thread on dakkadakka? 99% of what gets posted here is pointless and non-sensical, but we don't let that stop us most of the time...
60
Post by: yakface
Deadshane1 wrote:Wow, those rumours are pretty bad. "Lets ruin an army!"
Shame we cannot keep the current dex. It's actually quite strong right now, and I'm not talking overpriced immo spam. I dunno where people are getting this "sisters are non-competetive" idea. People should get out more. (I LOL'd when someone said that they were bottom 3rd teir competetive) Just b/c not many people play a codex doesnt mean it's weak, there may not be MANY uber-competetive builds out there but the codex has a couple of REALLY strong builds still.
I'm not certain those rumours are correct though. Faith seems TERRIBLE and with needless dice rolls.
Sisters armies (unless fully mounted) need a redemptionist or militia unit. It's fluffy, fun, sells models and is appealing to horde players where MEQ players can still go fully mounted.
Again, GW doesn't update rules because of whether or not a codex has a competitive build or not...the Necron codex languishing since the introduction of 5th edition should point that out!
They have recently shown a willingness to update their rules in order to maintain consistency of similar unit types across multiple codexes. The Dark Angels/Black Templars codexes were updated via FAQ to make sure they played the same...this wasn't a competitiveness boost (even though it did do that) because they didn't bother to touch quite a few 'useless' units in those codexes. Instead, they only took the opportunity to make sure that certain things worked the same across each codex.
With SoB, GW is clearly taking the same opportunity to fix the inconsistencies that exist between the new Grey Knight release and the Sisters of Battle.
So IMHO, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the codex has powerful builds, but everything to do with the fact that it has Inquisition units (like Assassins) that behave entirely different from the exact same unit in the Grey Knight codex.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
CT GAMER wrote:
It this is different then any other thread on the internet? 99% of what gets posted here is pointless and non-sensical, but we don't let that stop us most of the time...
I think this is even MORE accurate, tbh.
14152
Post by: CT GAMER
Kanluwen wrote:
It's like the Lost and the Damned/Storm of Chaos arguments all over again.
They were really never going to be a full army on its own. They were something intended for the campaigns, and in many cases nothing really was going to come out of them
Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
It isn't so much what GW said as what they didn't say: They could have made it clear that this was the intention up-front so that people could have made informed decisions about sinking loads of time and money into a project that according to you they had no plan of allowing long-term.
GW chose not to mention that fact becuase they knew that many people would not buy into the LATD if they did. If they planned to drop them all along as you suggest but did not announce this up front, then that is the problem...
Not too far from a bait and switch to be honest, and the "just play them as guard" mantra that the apologists like to chant doesn't change the facts of what they did...
28094
Post by: Creeping Dementia
As an actual Sisters player, I'm not real happy with what I'm hearing about this update so far, but naturally we still don't know the full ruleset so the jury is still out.
The thing that concerns me the most is it seems that Faith may be much less reliable, which would be a massive nerf. Sure we might generate faith all game, but us Sisters players generally are using most of our Faith during a couple turns anyway. I'm curious if Seraphim will be useable under the new Faith system, if they can't reliably pop off their invuln and jump out of combat (they'll likely be getting the less reliable Hit and Run USR) then I'm not sure what I'll use them for. If we can't use Faith in a reliable manner then we'll rank right up there with Zzap guns, Weird Boyz and Truck wrecks. Having abilities we can't plan on is a bad thing...
I'm not sure what the Confessor is for other than henchmen bands. Whatever, we'll see.
Repentia... they are currently so pathetic, I still think they'll need more than a cost reduction and FNP to be worth taking. No transport=no Repentia. Its unlikely I'll be taking an expensive T3 unit lacking a 3+ save on foot. And they can't be held back as a counterattack unit either, steered using rhino chassis, sure, but not held back. Again, we'll see.
On the plus side our costs should come down to the rest of the codexes level.
So far, I'm hearing Faith is less reliable (maybe), and are 'little bonuses' so are less likely to really alter a game. But we're cheaper (which also means more $$$... yay). So it looking like weaker, more numerous, Sisters?
27151
Post by: streamdragon
Wait... Craddace is only doing the WD list, right? Not the final, actual, physical, book?
Well, here's hoping he goes IG instead of Nid...
20774
Post by: pretre
Creeping Dementia wrote:As an actual Sisters player, I'm not real happy with what I'm hearing about this update so far, but naturally we still don't know the full ruleset so the jury is still out.
Exactly, except I'm an optimist, so am very happy.
The thing that concerns me the most is it seems that Faith may be much less reliable, which would be a massive nerf.
I think, and this is conjecture, that it will get more reliable. My theory, that others have posted as well, is that this will be like power dice. Each faithful unit will generate d6. Let's say I have 10 faithful units. I roll at the start of the turn and get 35 dice of faith. Now, I need to roll a 5+ to make any individual power go off.
I think that the way it will work is either:
a) Roll as many of your faith dice as you would like per faith act, subtracting from the total. Add the total of the dice together to get 5+ and success.
a) Roll as many of your faith dice as you would like per faith act, subtracting from the total. Look to see if any of the dice are over a 5+ and success.
Again, speculation. If I am correct, however, this would make faith VERY reliable. In the first case, you could guarantee a faith check by rolling 5 dice. In the second, you can make it a 'sure thing' by rolling lots of dice. It is also possible, but I think unlikely, that each unit has to track their own faith each turn. That would be a pain in the butt and probably tick me off.
I reserve judgement, of course, until we really figure out how the system works and which units get which faith acts.
If we can't use Faith in a reliable manner then we'll rank right up there with Zzap guns, Weird Boyz and Truck wrecks. Having abilities we can't plan on is a bad thing...
That would stink. And sisters have never been able to really plan for faith. (Although some unit sizes could guarantee some acts.) You have always had to have a little ... ugh.... faith in the dice in order to make the army work.
I'm not sure what the Confessor is for other than henchmen bands. Whatever, we'll see.
And to let players who have inquisitors bring them over from last codex. And to let all of us use your Confessor 'Pope Hat' Kyrinov and Uriah 'Crazy Beard' Jacobus models for something.
Repentia... they are currently so pathetic, I still think they'll need more than a cost reduction and FNP to be worth taking. No transport=no Repentia. Its unlikely I'll be taking an expensive T3 unit lacking a 3+ save on foot. And they can't be held back as a counterattack unit either, steered using rhino chassis, sure, but not held back. Again, we'll see.
Price reduction with FNP will probably see me field them again. I just miss redemptionists soooo much.
On the plus side our costs should come down to the rest of the codexes level.
YES!
Also, something that I have been thinking for a few months, but never dared to voice recently. 10 girls in an immolator. I think this is going to happen. It's going to be Rhino (35) with 2 Fire Points, 10 seats or Immolator (65-75) with no Fire Points, 10 seats. /crosses fingers
Either way... Color me excited.
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