Manchu wrote:I didn't say Rachel was Tim, either. I said I don't think they're comparable, i.e., they don't serve a similar role.
I think you're still not really understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying Rachel is directly comparable to a single character; I'm saying she seems to be a composite of two of the biggest "change" heralding characters in the Batfamily.
Jason Todd, while "hated" by fans was still a big deal. He's Bruce's biggest failure, and the shadow of that still was with him up until the end of the "Hush" storyline. Drake even said something as much to Selina about it, how everything Bruce trained into him was to help him avoid that same fate.
Tim Drake was a big deal as well, because at last we had someone from the get-go who was apparently "in tune" with Bruce's moods and his investigative skills. Drake became a kind of heir apparent to Bruce's mantle, which is why the outcome of "Battle for the Cowl" was such a big deal.
As for the other characters, ask yourself what the movie would lose if Alfred and Gordon weren't in it at all. Some "heart," whatever that means, maybe? Some recognizability for the franchise, more likely. But no plot points would need major revisions, thanks to Rachel doing almost everything.
I can't think of any major plot points off the top of my head for the comics involving Gordon or Alfred in major roles. Best one I can think of is from the Batman RIP companion piece, where there's a short story of Gordon taking on Mr. Freeze.
I totally disagree with your statements about Dick & Babs. Please see Batman TAS, for example.
This kind of depends on context. The basic story and behaviorisms of Dick Grayson, as the Boy Wonder wouldn't really fit into the 'Nolanverse' Batman. I like Grayson, but really he's become a far better character after he left Bruce's side. "Battle for the Cowl" really cemented him as a character, IMO. It's very similar to how they fit Nightwing and Robin into the Arkham games.
Barbara would, in my opinion, feel too forced. She's a character who if done well can be an amazing piece, but if done wrong just comes out as "Batman with Breasts".
Oracle, on the other hand, would have been a fantastic addition to the Nolanverse I think.
Ra's, too, is hardly a backburner. Yes, he's in the shadows for much of the time but there's always the climactic fight -- which Nolan gave us, mind. My bringing up Ra's was to show that he was not a pivotal character in Batman Begins compared to Rachel, that's all.
And you see, that's kind of the problem. Ra's is a puppetmaster. He might know all these varying styles of combat, but really--he has an army of loyal followers to fight for him.
I liken Ra's to Palpatine in the Star Wars Prequels. Because we constantly saw Dooku talking to Sidious on a holocommunicator(and we know that he becomes the Emperor at some point), it ruined a potential narrative element that was left undone.
Nolan didn't engage in that by having scenes with Ra's talking to his minions. At most, we had the dinner party at Wayne Manor and the parts with Crane and Dawes. But the simple fact that we heard "Ra's" at one point kind of gives a lot of it away.
Kanluwen wrote:I can't think of any major plot points off the top of my head for the comics involving Gordon or Alfred in major roles.
BATMAN YEAR ONE????
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kan, I'm not saying that these other characters should have/should appear in a Nolan movie. I'm saying that their roles in the comic books are all rendered superfluous by Rachel Dawes.
I'm afraid I cannot agree with the idea that Rachel was the most important person in both Batman Begins and Dark Knight. Can't even remember what she did but I remember everyone else.
LOL. She didn't ruin Dark Knight for me. Ledger was just too entertaining to watch for me to register Maggie Gyllenhaal (that doesn't change the fact that she played a central role in the script). There was a lot less going on in Batman Begins and she (rachel) did kind of spoil that for me.
Dunno, maybe I just don't give a gak what the author of a piece thinks. Rachel Dawes might have been INTENDED to have been a core plotline, but, well... I just didn't care about her when I watched, so she wasn't one.
An author's intent is rather irrelevant when a person is watching the movie...
Super heroes are distracting even in their own movies. The story has to compete with the fantasy. With Nolan's literalism, the fantasy is held up to an even greater scrutiny because literalism invites a challenge. "Could he really do that?" So it's easy not to pay attention. But the story is what it is. I mean, whether you understood it or missed it, Rachel serves the purposes I have described.
Alfred and Gordon are in the movie because "it's a a Batman movie" but Rachel was invented explicitly to give us Nolan's take on Batman as opposed to the many, many other takes.
Anung Un Rama wrote:
So, (ultimate) Spider-Man is dead... well, !
Spoiler:
The story in itself worked, that Spidey got himself killed because he confronted the sinister six even though he knew he was badly wounded. What pissed me off though, was that the Ultimates could've saved him, if they wouldn't have been busy fighting among each other. I'm still not sure if I even want to read the Ultimates Tie-in to Death of Spider-Man.
The saddest thing about the whole ordeal was, that for the first time during the entire series, Peter's life was... good. He was back with his girlfriend, he had a job, the relationships with friends and family couldn't have been better. I wanted to read more!
One thing I have learned from TV/Books/ect is that the better things appear to be, the worse they're about to get.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I agree about new Gotham, it's not gothic and decrepit. That is not Gotham, it's just a normal city. Tim Burton knew how to pull of a Gotham.
I might be wrong with this, but wasn't it Tim Burton's portrayal of the character and the world back in '89 that made Batman an Gotham what they are today? And then the animated series continued that style and gave uns new, better versions of villians like Freeze.
Aduro wrote:
Anung Un Rama wrote: So, (ultimate) Spider-Man is dead... well, !
Spoiler:
The story in itself worked, that Spidey got himself killed because he confronted the sinister six even though he knew he was badly wounded. What pissed me off though, was that the Ultimates could've saved him, if they wouldn't have been busy fighting among each other. I'm still not sure if I even want to read the Ultimates Tie-in to Death of Spider-Man. The saddest thing about the whole ordeal was, that for the first time during the entire series, Peter's life was... good. He was back with his girlfriend, he had a job, the relationships with friends and family couldn't have been better. I wanted to read more!
One thing I have learned from TV/Books/ect is that the better things appear to be, the worse they're about to get.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I agree about new Gotham, it's not gothic and decrepit. That is not Gotham, it's just a normal city. Tim Burton knew how to pull of a Gotham.
I might be wrong with this, but wasn't it Tim Burton's portrayal of the character and the world back in '89 that made Batman an Gotham what they are today? And then the animated series continued that style and gave uns new, better versions of villians like Freeze.
Maybe. If so, they owe him. Certainly, it wasn't shiny and new like the new movies. It's supposed to be a cesspool of humanity and corruption.
Caught up on Animal Man. Interesting stuff with interesting artwork...and will be more interesting how it interfaces with Swamp Thing and the Green.
Also read the new Action Comics.
Spoiler:
Metal-zero suit, eh? Metal-0. Cute. Still not sure about the mashup with Brainac, but we'll see where the character goes from here, I guess.
Was surprised to see John Henry Irons become Steel (or at least proto-Steel) so "soon." Still think he was a better choice for the JLA than Cyborg -- especially if DC was fine with a non-Death of Superman related version of the character. But c'est la vie. I hope he updates the suit in later appearances...right now it reminds me too much of the Shaquille O'Neal movie.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Digging Avenging Spider-Man so far.
I heard he hooks up with Miss Marvel.
Right now he's teamed up with Red Hulk. Red Hulk thinks he's a moron and a weakling so it's pretty funny. I guess its supposed to be like a Marvel Team-Up book.
gorgon wrote:Caught up on Animal Man. Interesting stuff with interesting artwork...and will be more interesting how it interfaces with Swamp Thing and the Green.
Also read the new Action Comics.
Spoiler:
Metal-zero suit, eh? Metal-0. Cute. Still not sure about the mashup with Brainac, but we'll see where the character goes from here, I guess.
Was surprised to see John Henry Irons become Steel (or at least proto-Steel) so "soon." Still think he was a better choice for the JLA than Cyborg -- especially if DC was fine with a non-Death of Superman related version of the character. But c'est la vie. I hope he updates the suit in later appearances...right now it reminds me too much of the Shaquille O'Neal movie.
I agree with every point.
I actually kind of dig the Animal Man artwork, it works well IMO. Swamp Thing is great though, very well written and drawn, almost perfect. Action Comics is also just a lot of fun, good sense of dynamism to it.
Yes, but then he got better. He's been an Avenger for a while actually. You guys are quite behind over there, or do you not follow avengers?
I'm not sure about the exact timeframe between English and German publishing. The last Deadpool issue had him meeting Steve Rogers and we're getting the DC Reboot in late spring.
Demon Knights continues to be fun, and the JLA, finally, appears to be gelling.
Gotta say I'm not overly bothered about the Jim Lee pencils, but I can accept I might well be in a minority here.
Very pleased to pick up the 9th volume of The Boyz, which is darkly entertaining as ever.
Things coming to a head there sooner rather than later methinks. The ending os this trade collection is pretty messed up even for this series.
... and don't get me started about that bit with "Monkey" in the bedroom at DC !
Also picked up ( as a xmas treat) Slaine : book of invasions volume III, which I'm looking forwards to immensely.
Had to indulge myself with the Batman : Leviathan Strikes, which is pure Morrison insanity/brilliance. The way he's plotted all this and lain down these seeds is remarkable indeed.
The panels from Leviathan Strikes are some of the most beautiful I've ever scene in any comic book. I haven't read it yet and can't comment on the writing.
About Demon Knights -- no book this past fall has caused me to question my taste in comics quite like this one. I didn't enjoy it at all but it has been consistently well reviewed.
Has a different penciler for much of the story, who has a much cleaner, less wild technique which, thankfully, works beautifully for the scenes he gets to draw.
I'm a sucker for pretty much anything Arthurian so this issue -- the secret origin of the Shining Knight ! with Grail et al -- is an almost guilty pleasure for me.
Out of all of the new DC books I've been picking up, it's only really Captain Atom I'm giving much thought to dropping. I'll probably give it too #6 at least and then see how we're going.
But especially glad that I'm picking up Swamp Thing, Animal Man and Frankenstein, the latter especially proving to be a joy far beyond what i was expecting.
Legion Lost ..well... hmm... it's alright. Which is annoying as if mainly features most of my favourite Legion characters. Part of the problem here I suspect is that the essential premise -- they're stuck in the past 111!! -- has been done before, with the Legion and I'm not quite sure that the current DC universe needs this extra level of complication. Still a new writer joins soon, we'll see how he goes.
Almost forgot : Been picking up The Shade series as well. No idea how this book is even supposed to work in the current continuity. .. not sure the writer does either.. so he seems to just be cracking on and telling the story anyway, which if you've ever read the Starman series he did ( and if you haven't then you should do. ASAP) is absolutely the thing to do.
lol, What? It's what I said it was. It works doesn't it? I don't see what the problem is anyway, it made me pay more attention. Like a professor yelling his lecture DIRECTLY INTO MY BRAIN!
Great, I'm already on reds8n's list for disparaging Aquaman.
Ya, only six 14 minute episodes. Comes right out of the comic too. So you'd probably understand it better than I. Watched it all, it was a good adaptation.
Nope. It's called Astonishing X-Men. I guess it a "motion comic". Probably uses panels from the comic. That would explain why the animation is so stilted.
Who are these guys in the Anti-Superman Army? Seems fairly obvious that one is the Kryptonite Man...but are the other two red and green versions of the same? IIRC, the Kryptonite Kid turned red at one point. And who's the blobby guy? Could it be the Kryptonoid? Would be a different incarnation if true. And can anyone remember a Phantom Zone villain with a cybernetic arm?
I guess these could be new villains, but Morrison loves to revamp old villains from yesteryear, so I feel like the answer is out there.
Detective Comics was a good read. I'll see how long it holds my attention. Gonna check out the JLA stuff too.
Ultimates is surprisingly good too. Reed Richards solidifying himself as the most hated man in the universe. He destroys all of eastern Europe. Sorry Anung, Germany doesn't make it! Damn you Richards!
Who are these guys in the Anti-Superman Army? Seems fairly obvious that one is the Kryptonite Man...but are the other two red and green versions of the same? IIRC, the Kryptonite Kid turned red at one point. And who's the blobby guy? Could it be the Kryptonoid? Would be a different incarnation if true. And can anyone remember a Phantom Zone villain with a cybernetic arm?
I guess these could be new villains, but Morrison loves to revamp old villains from yesteryear, so I feel like the answer is out there.
damn, I was hoping that you'd know !
I wondered if maybe the Blobby guy might be a new Chemo or even a parasite ? Not sure where we stand continuity wise with them now.
A great issue though, I love what Morrison has done with the background, thought the stuff with the Kents was good too, quite moving.
Krypto's cameo ( and future) was cool, and I enjoyed the payoff over the calf as well.
Swamp Thing and Animal Man were both great -- again. Looking forwards to their crossover, which is handy.
Spoiler:
I'm guessing this might well involved Alec maybe "dying" to actually become the Swamp Thing to save the day ?
reds8n wrote: damn, I was hoping that you'd know !
I wondered if maybe the Blobby guy might be a new Chemo or even a parasite ? Not sure where we stand continuity wise with them now.
A great issue though, I love what Morrison has done with the background, thought the stuff with the Kents was good too, quite moving.
Krypto's cameo ( and future) was cool, and I enjoyed the payoff over the calf as well.
Spoiler:
Having Krypto in the Phantom Zone is the first Krypto origin that makes sense. And the idea that he's following Clark around is cute.
The guy with the arm would appear to be Zod in his first appearance in the issue (that looks like Non and Ursa/Faora/Zaora in the group behind him). Seems straightfoward enough. But the mummy look at the end is radically different from any previous Zod appearance that I'm aware of. So either it's a whole new Zod, or I'm stumped.
A new Parasite is possible...he's the right color, at least.
Also thought the rocket's crystalline defense system is a great way to explain the old rocket look and the movie-style crystal look.
Has anyone here read the Suicide Squad comics that started in Sept. 2011?
I was thinking about picking them up because they have Harley Quinn, but the coverart makes me hesitate. The imagery does not match with what/who Harley Quinn has always been, and I am afraid the storyline and character behavior will be too far different as well.
But with the arrival of the new titles comes the cancellations of six others that launched in September: "Men of War," "Mister Terrific," "O.M.A.C.," "Hawk and Dove," "Blackhawks" and "Static Shock."
No real surprises at any of these being cancelled.
DC Comics will launch the second wave of its "New 52" initiative in May with six new titles, including the return of "Batman Incorporated" by Grant Morrison Chris Burnham, and the debut of "Dial H" by award-winning fantasy author China Miéville and Brian Bolland.
oh hell yes !
DC released the following descriptions of the upcoming titles:
BATMAN INCORPORATED – Writer: Grant Morrison. Artist: Chris Burnham. The acclaimed ongoing writer of ACTION COMICS, Grant Morrison, presents a fresh take on BATMAN INCORPORATED, in which the Batman brand is franchised globally in preparation for a major international threat.
EARTH 2 – Writer: James Robinson. Artist: Nicola Scott. The greatest heroes on a parallel Earth, the Justice Society combats threats that will set them on a collision course with other worlds.
WORLDS’ FINEST – Writer: Paul Levitz. Artists: George Perez and Kevin Maguire. Stranded on our world from a parallel reality, Huntress and Power Girl struggle to find their way back to Earth 2. Perez and Maguire will be the artists on alternating story arcs.
DIAL H – Writer: China Miéville. Artist: Mateus Santoluoco. The first ongoing series from acclaimed novelist China Miéville, this is a bold new take on a cult classic concept about the psychological effects on an everyman who accidentally gains powers to become a hero.
G.I. COMBAT – Writer: J.T. Krul. Artist: Ariel Olivetti. Featuring the return of a classic DC Comics series, THE WAR THAT TIME FORGOT, along with rotating back-up stories and creative teams – including THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER, with writers Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti and artist Dan Panosian; and THE HAUNTED TANK, with writer John Arcudi and artist Scott Kolins.
THE RAVAGERS – Writer: Howard Mackie. Artist: Ian Churchill. Spinning off from TEEN TITANS and SUPERBOY, this series finds four superpowered teens on the run and fighting against the organization that wants to turn them into supervillains.
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Has anyone here read the Suicide Squad comics that started in Sept. 2011?
I was thinking about picking them up because they have Harley Quinn, but the coverart makes me hesitate. The imagery does not match with what/who Harley Quinn has always been, and I am afraid the storyline and character behavior will be too far different as well.
Any first hand knowledge?
I read the first issue and it was okay. But I didn't like any of the characters enough to keep going. This isn't just a matter of not liking them as they are presented in this series -- I never liked any of them too much before I read that issue, either. I guess the main point is that this book didn't get me any more interested in them than I already was ... er, wasn't? ... and so it quickly fell off my radar. Funnily enough, the only character I did like a little better after the issue was Harley. I thought about picking up issue 2 for more of her but other things (Huntress, Pain and Prejudice) seemed more worthwhile to me, overall.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
reds8n wrote:
DC wrote:WORLDS’ FINEST – Writer: Paul Levitz. Artists: George Perez and Kevin Maguire. Stranded on our world from a parallel reality, Huntress and Power Girl struggle to find their way back to Earth 2. Perez and Maguire will be the artists on alternating story arcs.
DC wrote:WORLDS’ FINEST – Writer: Paul Levitz. Artists: George Perez and Kevin Maguire. Stranded on our world from a parallel reality, Huntress and Power Girl struggle to find their way back to Earth 2. Perez and Maguire will be the artists on alternating story arcs.
This is ... FANTASTIC!
So, is this the Huntress who's actually Bruce' and Selina's daughter?
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:So you liked Harley better.. but what was she like compared to whacky insane, carfree, off the wall/bat** crazy Harley of old?
She's darker, psychotic but not slapstick. TBH, there's not a lot of her in it, not enough to draw up a character description as extensive as what I could draw from the Animated Series. But there's the rub: a new idea cannot compete with an old one in terms of all the baggage, good and bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anung Un Rama wrote:So, is this the Huntress who's actually Bruce' and Selina's daughter?
I don't know why they cancelled a book like Batman Inc and then launched a book like Hawk & Dove in the first place. I coulda told them for free which one should be in the lineup.
Regarding Dial H, that chestnut's been dusted off quite a few times now and I don't think it's ever stuck long term. *shrug* G.I. Combat featuring The Haunted Tank and The Unknown Soldier on the other hand...woot!
gorgon wrote:I don't know why they cancelled a book like Batman Inc and then launched a book like Hawk & Dove in the first place. I coulda told them for free which one should be in the lineup.
Especially since Batman Inc. is coming right back now too!
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:So you liked Harley better.. but what was she like compared to whacky insane, carfree, off the wall/bat** crazy Harley of old?
She's darker, psychotic but not slapstick. TBH, there's not a lot of her in it, not enough to draw up a character description as extensive as what I could draw from the Animated Series. But there's the rub: a new idea cannot compete with an old one in terms of all the baggage, good and bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anung Un Rama wrote:So, is this the Huntress who's actually Bruce' and Selina's daughter?
I hope so!
Her and Deadshot are what makes Sucide Squad. Its one of my favorite books. Those new books in may are gonna break the bank lol. Gonna have to start trade waiting on somethings.
Looks like the next Marvel Mega event is Avengers vs. X-Men. Should be interesting but not sure how that'll work because the X-Men are still splintered from X-Men vs. X-Men.
Got all the JLA comics but haven't read them yet. My JLA #1 is 6th printing! That's due to DC selling buckets of comics since the relaunch.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Looks like the next Marvel Mega event is Avengers vs. X-Men. Should be interesting but not sure how that'll work because the X-Men are still splintered from X-Men vs. X-Men.
I'm sure that Wolverine vs Wolverine will be a blast.
Logo does have a bizarre resemblance to a toilet seat being unwrapped, looks better in the colour variants though.
How do people feel about the yettobeconfirmedalthoughtheymadesitestakedownartworkforit Watchmen 2/prequels then ?
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Looks like the next Marvel Mega event is Avengers vs. X-Men. Should be interesting but not sure how that'll work because the X-Men are still splintered from X-Men vs. X-Men.
I'm sure that Wolverine vs Wolverine will be a blast.
Should be pretty hairy.
A Watchmen sequel to me is full blown heresy. Like Hamlet 2 or something like that.
I have read Joss Whedon's entire X-Men run. It was pretty fun. I like Colossus and even though I think he's one of the characters who should've stayed dead because of the way he died, I liked the fact that he was back. The characters were all pretty great actually, Whedon is just good with those things. The whole story, with Breakworld was preeeeeety cheey though. I now the X-Men fight Aliens on a regular basis, but I would've prefered something for grounded. But overall, it was a pretty good run.
Spoiler:
So how and when did Kitty escape the giant bullet flying through space?
I don't know hopefully he'll do another motion comic.
Agree about colossus. I actually like the way the 90s cartoon handled the virus. Wolverine is the one that "sacrifices" himself but barely survives because of his healing factor.
Will be getting Batman Incorporated for certain, not sure on any of the others. Huntress and Powergirl is possible as I like those two characters.
I'm really liking Harley in Suicide Squad btw, she is suffering a little due to the ammount of characters jumping around, coming in, getting carted out in body bags. However I still find her fun to read when shes doing her thing.
Its probably just outside my top five. Although this relaunch has made me go Bats nuts, loving Batman, Dark Knight, Batwoman, Batgirl and Nightwing.
I think the issue I'm closest to dropping is Voodoo, its, well slightly dull, its not really going anywhere at the moment. Going to give it a few more issues, and then if still the same, I can see it going.
malfred wrote:I wasn't really excited about the Avengers until I heard Whedon was doing it.
Now we're definitely going to see it.
While reading his X-Men stuff, there was one thing that got me worried. So far, Avengers has one female character and I don't see Black Widow hooking up with anybody. I'm curios to see, how Whedon will handle the emotional part of the movie.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Will be getting Batman Incorporated for certain, not sure on any of the others. Huntress and Powergirl is possible as I like those two characters.
I'm dead certain on the new World's Finest. Although a big fan of both Bats and Grant Morrison, or maybe because I am a fan of both, I'll probably wait for the inevitable hard cover BatInc collections (which is what I've done so far). I like to read Morrison's stuff all at once and then read his own "and this reference is ..." notes. Scott Snyder is a bit better for installment reading, I think.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anung Un Rama wrote:So, is this the Huntress who's actually Bruce' and Selina's daughter?
Paul Levitz wrote:Nothing’s quite the same…the world they’re in, the rules of the game, the stakes…so Helena and Kara are facing dilemmas in WORLDS’ FINEST that are nothing like any version of either of their previous lives…
Learn the identities they used on Earth 2…watch why those change when they get here…and see the choices they face. It’s a layered puzzle, pulling on the rich history of the DC Universe…but even more on the potential for an explosively different lives in the New 52 universe…and over time, it’ll all pull together to affect the lives of so many…
As a writer, it’s a true joy to collaborate with star artists George Perez and Kevin Maguire, and to be able to design a series to fit their talents together as seamlessly as possible. And the heroines of WORLDS FINEST are simultaneously old friends (to me, as well as each other) and very new acquaintances that you want to grow closer to…if you can. They’re showing a lot of their true selves…but hiding even more.
Welcome to new worlds…and a totally new WORLDS’ FINEST.
Had to indulge myself with the Batman : Leviathan Strikes, which is pure Morrison insanity/brilliance. The way he's plotted all this and lain down these seeds is remarkable indeed.
To drop Dark Knight or not to drop Dark Knight. I'm already reading Batman,DC, and Batwoman. Dark Knight is okay. Its a little too much like Arkham Asylum, okay story gamewise but comic wise its lacking.
spudkins wrote:one vs one in a fight?
Hulk?
Invisible woman?
the tick? Super man I really dislike so I dont want him to win.
I go by old Wizard Magazines list of top ten most powerful heroes list. Silver Surfer was first, Thor was second, Superman was third and I think Wonder Women was fourth. Don't remember the rest to well but I believe Xavier and Hulk were 9th and 10th.
He definately up there if not #2. (Silver Surfer is still insanely powerful) but the criteria for the list was that they had to be a SuperHero. I guess Dr. Manhatten didn't meet that criteria. He's not so much a superhero as he is just a weird fellow.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Aye, I suppose if they allowed Villians to count, there are some folks in the darker ranks who really on paper shouldn't be beatable.. at all.
Also, supervillian's power levels vary wildly depending on whether or not they are the bad guy of the month.
I'm all caught up in JLA. Honestly, I'm disappointed. I don't think it's very good at all. Every issue is them introducing a "new" character in a contrived and lame manner. The overall Darkseid storyline is throwaway and uninteresting. I'll stick with it for a while in hopes that once they get the band together the storyline will pick up.
I've caught up on a few books lately and am happy to say I look forward to issue six of the following titles:
- Auaqman
- Birds of Prey
- Fury of Firestorm
- Red Hood and the Outlaws
I also caught up on Superboy and am not totally impressed so far. But I haven't caught up on Teen Titans so maybe that is the key. I'll report back in on these as I read them, along with Deathstroke, Batwoman, and All Star Western. In the meantime, let me know if you guys have any question on the titles above or any of the Bat-titles (minus Batwing).
Yeah, in addition to the titles I mentioned above, I'm also reading: Batman, Batman: Odyssey, Batman & Robin, Detective, Dark Knight, Blue Beetle, Catwoman, Huntress, Penguin, and Nightwing. I've read a few of all of these and been pleased with them thus far but need to catch up on them, too. I read through 5 of Batman but I thought everyone loved it so much you guys must have heard about that.
DC ENTERTAINMENT OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCES “BEFORE WATCHMEN”
This summer, DC Entertainment will publish all-new stories expanding on the acclaimed WATCHMEN universe. As highly anticipated as they are controversial, the seven inter-connected prequel mini-series will build on the foundation of the original WATCHMEN, the bestselling graphic novel of all time. BEFORE WATCHMEN will be the collective banner for all seven titles, from DC Comics.
“It’s our responsibility as publishers to find new ways to keep all of our characters relevant,” said DC Entertainment Co-Publishers Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. “After twenty five years, the Watchmen are classic characters whose time has come for new stories to be told. We sought out the best writers and artists in the industry to build on the complex mythology of the original.”
Stepping up to the challenge is a group of the comic book industry’s most iconoclastic writers and artists – including Brian Azzarello (100 BULLETS), Lee Bermejo (JOKER), Amanda Conner (POWER GIRL), Darwyn Cooke (JUSTICE LEAGUE: NEW FRONTIER), John Higgins (WATCHMEN), Adam Hughes (CATWOMAN), J.G. Jones (FINAL CRISIS), Andy Kubert (FLASHPOINT), Joe Kubert (SGT. ROCK), Jae Lee (BATMAN: JEKYLL AND HYDE), J. Michael Straczynski (SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE) and Len Wein (SWAMP THING).
BEFORE WATCHMEN includes:
- RORSCHACH (4 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: Lee Bermejo
- MINUTEMEN (6 issues) – Writer/Artist: Darwyn Cooke
- COMEDIAN (6 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: J.G. Jones
- DR. MANHATTAN (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artist: Adam Hughes
- NITE OWL (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artists: Andy and Joe Kubert
- OZYMANDIAS (6 issues) – Writer: Len Wein. Artist: Jae Lee
- SILK SPECTRE (4 issues) – Writer: Darwyn Cooke. Artist: Amanda Conner
Each week, a new issue will be released, and will feature a two-page back-up story called CURSE OF THE CRIMSON CORSAIR, written by original series editor Len Wein and with art by original series colorist John Higgins. There will also be a single issue, BEFORE WATCHMEN: EPILOGUE, featuring the work of various writers and artists, and a CRIMSON CORSAIR story by Wein and Higgins.
“The original series of WATCHMEN is the complete story that Alan Moore and I wanted to tell. However, I appreciate DC's reasons for this initiative and the wish of the artists and writers involved to pay tribute to our work. May these new additions have the success they desire,” said Dave Gibbons, WATCHMEN co-creator and original series artist.
“Comic books are perhaps the largest and longest running form of collaborative fiction,” said DiDio and Lee. “Collaborative storytelling is what keeps these fictional universes current and relevant.”
... off the creators alone I'm sold on all of them.
reds8n wrote:Aquaman is indeed great, kick ass story every month.
I wasn't sure about 1 - 4, thought they were a bit heavy-handed. Also, the decompression opening #5 was ridiculous filler. The end of 5, however, and all its promise of Atlantean adventure has me eager for next month's issue.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I suppose it goes without saying Manchu likes his Batman.
Bizarrely, I left Batgirl (my favorite BatBook) off the list above!
DC ENTERTAINMENT OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCES “BEFORE WATCHMEN”
This summer, DC Entertainment will publish all-new stories expanding on the acclaimed WATCHMEN universe. As highly anticipated as they are controversial, the seven inter-connected prequel mini-series will build on the foundation of the original WATCHMEN, the bestselling graphic novel of all time. BEFORE WATCHMEN will be the collective banner for all seven titles, from DC Comics.
“It’s our responsibility as publishers to find new ways to keep all of our characters relevant,” said DC Entertainment Co-Publishers Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. “After twenty five years, the Watchmen are classic characters whose time has come for new stories to be told. We sought out the best writers and artists in the industry to build on the complex mythology of the original.”
Stepping up to the challenge is a group of the comic book industry’s most iconoclastic writers and artists – including Brian Azzarello (100 BULLETS), Lee Bermejo (JOKER), Amanda Conner (POWER GIRL), Darwyn Cooke (JUSTICE LEAGUE: NEW FRONTIER), John Higgins (WATCHMEN), Adam Hughes (CATWOMAN), J.G. Jones (FINAL CRISIS), Andy Kubert (FLASHPOINT), Joe Kubert (SGT. ROCK), Jae Lee (BATMAN: JEKYLL AND HYDE), J. Michael Straczynski (SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE) and Len Wein (SWAMP THING).
BEFORE WATCHMEN includes:
- RORSCHACH (4 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: Lee Bermejo
- MINUTEMEN (6 issues) – Writer/Artist: Darwyn Cooke
- COMEDIAN (6 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: J.G. Jones
- DR. MANHATTAN (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artist: Adam Hughes
- NITE OWL (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artists: Andy and Joe Kubert
- OZYMANDIAS (6 issues) – Writer: Len Wein. Artist: Jae Lee
- SILK SPECTRE (4 issues) – Writer: Darwyn Cooke. Artist: Amanda Conner
Each week, a new issue will be released, and will feature a two-page back-up story called CURSE OF THE CRIMSON CORSAIR, written by original series editor Len Wein and with art by original series colorist John Higgins. There will also be a single issue, BEFORE WATCHMEN: EPILOGUE, featuring the work of various writers and artists, and a CRIMSON CORSAIR story by Wein and Higgins.
“The original series of WATCHMEN is the complete story that Alan Moore and I wanted to tell. However, I appreciate DC's reasons for this initiative and the wish of the artists and writers involved to pay tribute to our work. May these new additions have the success they desire,” said Dave Gibbons, WATCHMEN co-creator and original series artist.
“Comic books are perhaps the largest and longest running form of collaborative fiction,” said DiDio and Lee. “Collaborative storytelling is what keeps these fictional universes current and relevant.”
... off the creators alone I'm sold on all of them.
Hmmm, I may actually get this. Didn't realize it was a prequel. The talent is impressive but I know I'll end up being disappointed with the story in the end.
Its a nice system, and I'm planning on doing a long campaign once the next two books arrive. Although they've been delayed to the summer which is a shame as both should have been out in Jan. Eitherway it looks from my couple of read throughs its going to be fun.
Will be setting up Aura's 'fresh' hero in Gotham, avoiding the larger players to start and see how it goes.
I always thought core nWoD would be perfect for a Gotham game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brett White wrote: If you want to ignore "Before Watchmen," please do. You'll save around a hundred dollars, which could be put towards enacting a real change in the industry.
I want to read those badly. But I also want this work to hit me full-force when I finally get to read it in trade ... er, you know, hardcover. Morrison's Batman is like some kind of candy-drug you only get at Christmas. It's a comic that makes me think about how I want to read it.
Super boy is great if you read teen Titians as well. there is a really awesome panel in issue #4 of Teen Titians where he is in times square and there is a video of Lex Luthor right behind him in the background and they both have the same look on their faces. Super Boy really reminds me of Sylar, I love it.
The little guy has to be Mxyzptlk. The line about "performing a task in my name" is a giveaway, I think. And here's a subtle but possible link -- in the classic book A Wrinkle in Time, wasn't the 5th dimension described as a tesseract? I think I done good with that one.
Interesting that blue K must be something radically different now to be the "most terrible of all".
Still no clue on the bandaged guy. I mean, Zod seems obvious, but it's such a radically different look. Could he be some kind of Zod/Kryptonoid mashup? The Kryptonoid was a Superman robot fused with a virus fused with an Army general. So is this guy a Kryptonian general fused with robotic parts? Seems like a long shot, but their word balloons are similar, and those kinds of details are right up Morrison's alley...
I don't think they are necessary. Watchmen is perfectly fine the way it is. We get a lot of background on all the characters and when all is said and done.. well, it's done.
Granted, I probably wouldn't mind reading more stories with them, especially with the creative team behind it, but it's not smething I ever thought the world needed.
Looking at the debate about pre-Watchmen on other sites, I've come to the conclusion that there are lot of folks struggling with the difference between lack of interest and moral opposition.
Also, gorgon is right as far as I can tell. When was the last time you saw an article titled "Alan Moore has nice things to say about ..." If he does like things, no one is interested in reporting it.
I know, but he is right. The Watchmen is a complete story.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:Looking at the debate about pre-Watchmen on other sites, I've come to the conclusion that there are lot of folks struggling with the difference between lack of interest and moral opposition.
Well personally I'm struggling with moral opposotion and interest.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Watchmen is a complete story. [...] Well personally I'm struggling with moral opposotion and interest.
A New Hope is also a complete story. It doesn't mean they never should have made Empire Strikes Back. Or Phantom Menace, for that matter. Frankly, it doesn't matter if the pre-Watchmen stories end up being closer to Phantom Menace than ESB in quality because you can just ignore them after all. This is what I mean by struggling between lack of interest and moral opposition. Just because you don't want to read something doesn't mean you have to oppose it on moral grounds. Your situation offers a slight twist but the conflict is just as absurd. There's nothing morally wrong about writing a sequel or prequel to Moby Dick. Nobody, not even Alan Moore, can tell us whether such a thing ought to be done or not. And honestly we're not talking about Moby Dick, either.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Watchmen is a complete story. [...] Well personally I'm struggling with moral opposotion and interest.
A New Hope is also a complete story. It doesn't mean they never should have made Empire Strikes Back. Or Phantom Menace, for that matter. Frankly, it doesn't matter if the pre-Watchmen stories end up being closer to Phantom Menace than ESB in quality because you can just ignore them after all. This is what I mean by struggling between lack of interest and moral opposition. Just because you don't want to read something doesn't mean you have to oppose it on moral grounds. Your situation offers a slight twist but the conflict is just as absurd. There's nothing morally wrong about writing a sequel or prequel to Moby Dick. Nobody, not even Alan Moore, can tell us whether such a thing ought to be done or not. And honestly we're not talking about Moby Dick, either.
Well I don't think someone should make a sequel to Mobey Dick either. Your Star Wars analogy doesn't mesh because Lucas was involved with all 6 movies. Moore is the author of this story which was intended to be a complete story and it's not ridiculus for him to say I don't want someone to change the characters I created because that's the whole story.
Seeing as Moore has made a living off of taking other people's characters and writing new stories for them I really don't think his opinion matters all that much.
wana10 wrote:Seeing as Moore has made a living off of taking other people's characters and writing new stories for them I really don't think his opinion matters all that much.
wana10 wrote:Seeing as Moore has made a living off of taking other people's characters and writing new stories for them I really don't think his opinion matters all that much.
Yeah, even the Watchmen were just the old Charlton characters, rejiggered.
haven't read one in YEARS, since like 93 or something, but I remember I liked Image stuff, and Darker Image the best, pretty sure I have The Pitt #1 in storage back at my Dad's
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Moore is the author of this story which was intended to be a complete story and it's not ridiculus for him to say I don't want someone to change the characters I created because that's the whole story.
Sure it is. When you sell your ideas to other people they can do whatever they like with them. In a similar way, it would have been ridiculous for DC to protest Alan Moore using his royalties checks to buy all that LSD. Alan Moore can say "there is no more story to tell" all he likes. Fortunately, the creative future of comic books is no longer in Alan Moore's hands.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Moore is the author of this story which was intended to be a complete story and it's not ridiculus for him to say I don't want someone to change the characters I created because that's the whole story.
Sure it is. When you sell your ideas to other people they can do whatever they like with them. In a similar way, it would have been ridiculous for DC to protest Alan Moore using his royalties checks to buy all that LSD. Alan Moore can say "there is no more story to tell" all he likes. Fortunately, the creative future of comic books is no longer in Alan Moore's hands.
Did someone say the creative future of comic books was in his hands in the first place?
I actually did buy the new Suicide Squad comics. ehh. Story seems fine, art is alright, Harley Quinn, not her. My working theory is that this is some psycho punk girl that wishes she was Harley Quinn and has been pretending to be her. As soon as this is revealed, or "Harley" is no longer in the series, I will not be buying anymore.
Do I get taken round the back of the woodshed for a beating, if I mention I'm not a fan of Watchmen at all.
In other news, pre-ordered Worlds Finest, Batman Inc, and oddly Fairest, thanks to a little preview comic I got.
Seems I am getting the odd freebie these days, been a member of Economic comics for a bit, and started to get comic themed postcards and bookmarks.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Do I get taken round the back of the woodshed for a beating, if I mention I'm not a fan of Watchmen at all.
I feel about it mostly like I feel about the Dark Knight Returns. I recognize that it's a very well put together book that has had a tremendous impact on the industry and the superhero genre. I don't care for the effects it has had on the genre. And there is a difference: TDKR to me seems morally reprehensible. If I have to pick between Moore and Miller in terms of worldview, I'll (have to) pick Moore. Are comics better off because of these guys? Yeah, I suppose. But this is a different era. A lot of people are now okay with taking comic books seriously. Now let's see what comic books can do besides serious.
Generally, most things don't live up to their hype well they are that well acclaimed but for me The Watchmen did. I think it's one of the best comics ever.
Speaking of the Watchmen prequels, does anybody have anything good to say about Brian Azarello, or is he every bit a terrible a writer as his time on Hellblazer suggests to me?
After Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men I was looking for another X-Men TPB at my local comic store and got Xenogenesis by Warren Ellis which continues the team from AXM. And I really enjoyed it. The X-Men travel to Africa on a lead about new Mutant babies being born. The character moments aren't quite on the same level as with Whedon writing, but there are some great action scenes and a lot of wonderful splash pages.
I was looking through some other TBPs as well. Would you guys recommend House of M?
Anung Un Rama wrote:After Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men I was looking for another X-Men TPB at my local comic store and got Xenogenesis by Warren Ellis which continues the team from AXM. And I really enjoyed it.
The X-Men travel to Africa on a lead about new Mutant babies being born. The character moments aren't quite on the same level as with Whedon writing, but there are some great action scenes and a lot of wonderful splash pages.
I was looking through some other TBPs as well. Would you guys recommend House of M?
I'm actually a Warren Ellis fanboy. I pick up anything he does just
because he likes to research weird stuff and put them into his
comic books.
Yes, but I actually found xenogenesis to be a little too real world. At least the first issue. I appluad his efforts to bring light to the many issue Africa faces but this is supposed to be the Marvel U not real life.
I'd much rather see Wakanda become a world superpower on par with the US. This is supposed to be escapism after all.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, but I actually found xenogenesis to be a little too real world. At least the first issue. I appluad his efforts to bring light to the many issue Africa faces but this is supposed to be the Marvel U not real life.
I'd much rather see Wakanda become a world superpower on par with the US. This is supposed to be escapism after all.
That's my problem with comic books. They're ships in a
bottle, unaffected by anything real.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, but I actually found xenogenesis to be a little too real world. At least the first issue. I appluad his efforts to bring light to the many issue Africa faces but this is supposed to be the Marvel U not real life.
I'd much rather see Wakanda become a world superpower on par with the US. This is supposed to be escapism after all.
That's my problem with comic books. They're ships in a
bottle, unaffected by anything real.
But they do. 9/11 really hit New York in Marvel but I don't feel it should have.
Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result
of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or
DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
malfred wrote:Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result
of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or
DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
No, but it shouldn't. In real life 9/11 is one of the worst things to ever happen to New York but in the Marvel U it would be like the 118th worst thing in NYC history. So why make a big deal of it or even have it in there? The Marvel U has diverged so far from our own since the 60s that real life references are pointless.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, the 30s. I think we can say the Marvel U officially went its own way when Captain America punched Hitler in the face.
malfred wrote:Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result
of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or
DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
No, but it shouldn't. In real life 9/11 is one of the worst things to ever happen to New York but in the Marvel U it would be like the 118th worst thing in NYC history. So why make a big deal of it or even have it in there? The Marvel U has diverged so far from our own since the 60s that real life references are pointless.
Which is why we have different preferences for our comics.
It's not that I necessarily want everything here to happen there, but creating
a mutant African warlord makes more sense than having a tribal hereditary
ruler of Wakanda. What I want out of comics is for the stories to matter, and
when everything is locked in status quo (I don't care how many mutations
you give mutants or have the white queen switch sides, the lineup for the
X-men is relatively unchanged) then there's little to no chance for change to
touch characters.
malfred wrote:Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result
of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or
DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
No, but it shouldn't. In real life 9/11 is one of the worst things to ever happen to New York but in the Marvel U it would be like the 118th worst thing in NYC history. So why make a big deal of it or even have it in there? The Marvel U has diverged so far from our own since the 60s that real life references are pointless.
Which is why we have different preferences for our comics.
U
It's not that I necessarily want everything here to happen there, but creating
a mutant African warlord makes more sense than having a tribal hereditary
ruler of Wakanda. What I want out of comics is for the stories to matter, and
when everything is locked in status quo (I don't care how many mutations
you give mutants or have the white queen switch sides, the lineup for the
X-men is relatively unchanged) then there's little to no chance for change to
touch characters.
Actually we agree. Had this debate with Manchu already. I'm big on things mattering. Characters who die staying dead for once. I just don't want real life events suddenly interjecting themselves into this fictional narrative whether it's Islamic Terrorism or Jersey Shore.
I don't want it to be sudden, either, but I think it has to happen.
For instance, I didn't think Xenogenesis had an odd real life
occurrence at all. Even Hitman had to deal with warlords with
super powered bodyguards, after all.
I haven't read Xenogenesis past the first issue to clarify, that's why I used an example from one I was more familiar with: the 9/11 spider-man.
It just seemed odd to me hearing cyclops literally listing off Africa's problems. Like I said good to raise awareness of real life issues but bad for world building.
DC avoids the whole thing by using fictional cities like Gotham and Metropolis. Both approaches have their pros and cons.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Ya it's good but pretty weird. House of M is like an elseworlds tale but one that did really happen. It was the indirect cause of Civil War.
I thought Skrulls caused the Civil War.
malfred wrote:Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result
of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or
DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
Well, there was the Spider-Man 9/11 special and I think Captain America had some stories related to it, but that's pretty much all there is.
It's not a bad idea to use these events in a comic, but some of these things just pale in comparison. 9/11, from a comic-perspektive, wasn't nearly as bad as that explosion that got Civil War started or what happened in Ultimatum. And wasn't there a Mutant genocide or two as well?
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I haven't read Xenogenesis past the first issue to clarify, that's why I used an example from one I was more familiar with: the 9/11 spider-man.
It just seemed odd to me hearing cyclops literally listing off Africa's problems. Like I said good to raise awareness of real life issues but bad for world building.
DC avoids the whole thing by using fictional cities like Gotham and Metropolis. Both approaches have their pros and cons.
But Gotham got hit by a few terrible disasters on a similar scale. Think of No Man's Land or Firefly setting random people on fire and have them burn alive from within.
malfred wrote:Did it have the same impact? Did comics change as a result of 9/11? I don't know because I don't normally read Marvel or DC. My guess is that it doesn't.
Yeah, of course comics changed because of 9/11, to the extent that the people who write them and the culture they live in changed. That's my hypothesis.
That would require a thesis. The first question to ask is in your court: what do you mean by "impact"? As far as, "has this particular event been literally alluded to from time to time in DC Comics?" ... no, I can't say I've seen any references to it of late. But, if the question is "has 9/11 changed our culture and that change has been expressed in art" then, as I said, my hypothesis is "yes, and that includes comics." So back to impact: before we start looking for examples of this in comics, we should establish what it is. What are the ways in which 9/11 has affected our wider culture? Aside from very specific things, like increased security in airports, what are some elements that we take for granted today that would have been alien to us in 2000?
That's one difference between Marvel and DC that doesn't get talked about much. In the DCU events happen in fictional places like Gotham, Metropolis and Central City. Whereas, Marvel all happens in NYC. 9/11 happened in Marvel and gets referred to every now and then. The 9/11 special was touching in some ways but also dumb in many others. You have guys like Spider-Man and Thor picking up the wreckage alongside firefighters at ground zero. What is the point of that? That really was a time for the real life heroes. Their time on the pile was an unique mourning process that I feel we should leave to them. The Asgardian God of Rolling Thunder is out of place there. There's also a panel where Dr. Doom looks sad. Someone in the next issue pointed out that that was also stupid because Dr. Doom would be happy this happened. He's probably right on that. I think I'd like to avoid the whole conversation of what Dr. Doom's thoughts on 9/11 where.
In my opinion the destruction of Gotham in No Man's Land was much more interesting anyway. That's the great thing about a fictional city. You can do whatever you want to it. You're not at the mercy of real life events. Not sure if the quake was mentioned in comics after that series but hopefully it was because it was a pretty monumental event in that fictional universe. Y'know, until the reboot...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
malfred wrote:Someone once told me that Civil War is the post 911 storyline
to read, but I haven't gotten around to it.
Ya, it's good despite what reds8n will tell you. Problem with those mega-events is that the main title doesn't really cover the whole thing. And of course it suffers from mainstream-comic-book-syndrome where the things that happened in it slowly get undone...
I pretty well agree with KC regarding the appropriateness of something like 9/11 existing explicitly in comic book worlds. To me, the uncomfortable question is "why didn't Superman save us?" But if Superman does prevent the attacks ... well, that's kind of tasteless against real life, too. Same thing with the Holocaust. If Superman was fighting Nazis in the 40s then why didn't he do anything about the Camps? It's a great "what we knew" sort of American guilt trip hypothetical but a story about Supes handily preventing the Holocaust is hardly appropriate to the scope of the real tragedy.
Again, I think the real question is: how did our culture change and how have those changes been reflected in comics?
Manchu wrote:I pretty well agree with KC regarding the appropriateness of something like 9/11 existing explicitly in comic book worlds. To me, the uncomfortable question is "why didn't Superman save us?" But if Superman does prevent the attacks ... well, that's kind of tasteless against real life, too. Same thing with the Holocaust. If Superman was fighting Nazis in the 40s then why didn't he do anything about the Camps? It's a great "what we knew" sort of American guilt trip hypothetical but a story about Supes handily preventing the Holocaust is hardly appropriate to the scope of the real tragedy.
Again, I think the real question is: how did our culture change and how have those changes been reflected in comics?
Yes, exactly. These world are too fantastical for real life events. That doesn't mean comics can't tackle very serious subject matter, they should just deal with it it a more allegorical way.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Actually pretty sure Asgard's still destroyed.
But does anyone care?
In real life or Marveldom? In Marveland: yes very much so. Not sure the shining city can be rebuilt. There's a debate whether it should be rebuilt by Asgardians or Humanity. Asgardians (except Thor) think it should be by Asgardians while Thor think's the humans should help out because it'll help god-human relations and stuff. Let's just say he's fond of humans.
Iron Man thinks it'll be a good job creation project for America (The remains of Asgard are in Broxton, Oklahoma.....don't ask).
Real Life? Idunno, people care as much about it as anything else that happens in comics I reckon.
@Anung about House of M and Malfred about Civil War and storylines
House of M -> Civil War -> Secret Invasion -> Dark Reign -> Seige actually forms a pretty coherent storyline. Then Fear Itself kinda sucks the momentum out of all of it but it was good up till then.
I had forgotten Azzarello wrote 100 Bullets. I quite liked it (though I have quite a tolerance for Vertigo's stuff), but Azzarello's certainly no Alan Moore. I shall be giving this cynical exercise a miss.
Yeah, I've been reading both: the Classics and the new TPBs. To be fair, I still enjoy the new 'pool. Sure, he's not nearly as deep or compelling as Joe Kelly's version, but the stories are still tons of fun and I love Carlo Barberi's art.
Last Classic I read was book 4, where the whole arc with LL&L and the Alien Messiah was wrapped up. Got a bit complicated in the end, but it's still really good.
All I remember is that in the end he has a big fight with T-Ray (I think his name was) then ends up hallucinating that Death was talking to him. Then subsequent writers seemed to take that literally and made Death like an actual character. It's been a while....
Started reading Infestation. So far we have Transformers fighting Zombies, G.I. Joe's Cobras fighting Zombies and Kirk, Spock and Bones fighting Zombies. But all of them in their seperate stories. I thought I bought a crossover
And it ended with Ghostbusters fighting Zombies and then another story about IDW's stupid vampire black ops unit defeating the zombie threat.
The Ghostbusters and Star Trek stories we're fun. The writers at IDW seem to have a good grasp on the characters they're using. But I am still pissed that I didn't get a real crossover.
Sure, I've got a crossover between said black ops unit and the different universes but I was really expecting a crossover between the worlds.
Product Description IDW''s first-ever mega event is collected in this hardcover collection as something goes horribly awry in the IDW universe: a dimensions-spanning zombie outbreak of epic proportions, which threatens to tear many of IDW's biggest realities asunder! The infestation spreads into the Transformers universe as Galvatron crash lands on Earth, and it falls upon our ''Bots-in-blue to run to the rescue of... well... EVERYONE to fight off not just Galvatron, but the zombie horde spreading through Las Vegas! It continues when a robotic arm of unknown origin has been discovered and both G.I. JOE and COBRA race to discover its secrets. Little do the two sides know that the arm has its own agenda - assimilating the world''s military technology into the Infestation fold! It then crosses over into the Star Trek universe as a routine visit to a colony world takes a horrifying turn when Admiral Kirk, Mr. Spock, and Dr. McCoy find themselves surrounded by hordes of the undead! And, thanks to a plague of poltergeists that resist long-term storage in the containment grid, the Ghostbusters are dealing with a surplus of work... and their job is only going to get harder when Britt''s zombies try to take a nibble out of the Big Apple! Finally, Britt has returned, armed with new technology that will spread the Infestation across all known realities. The zombie apocalypse looms and the remaining members of CVO are running out of options...
Also, Snake Eyes is not in this book. I hate it when covers lie to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And speaking of IDW, let's hope this will be as awesome as it looks:
So, is anyone else Reading Atomic Robo? I just finished volume 6, and it was a blast. Robo is always the best combination of funny, punchy, and SCIENCE!
DarkDrgon wrote:So, is anyone else Reading Atomic Robo? I just finished volume 6, and it was a blast. Robo is always the best combination of funny, punchy, and SCIENCE!
marv335 wrote:I've just started Kevin Smiths Bionic Man.
It's quite good so far.
I've been enjoying it. It's apparently based on his movie script from a decade or so ago. I think it does a good job revamping the character but staying true to the important basics. Must be selling okay, as an ad for a spinoff ran in the last ish...
So about Justice League. I want to like the book. It has a lot of solid elements and good people behind it. But why does it seem like they don't add up to make it the book it should be?
Spoiler:
The primary problem might be that the pacing has been poor. I don't mind a slow pace, and I appreciate what Johns was trying to do with establishing the characters and their relationships...not just for this book, but for the whole DC universe, really. But nothing much happened for too many leisurely issues (and note that JL/JLA has traditionally been kind of a dense book due to the many characters involved). Then in the latest ish, we get what felt like a rushed battle with Darkseid that didn't live up to the buildup. It felt a bit like the original Doomsday arc in terms of the overly simplistic plot, but without 3 issues worth of slugging it out toe-to-toe between the principal characters.
I kept thinking about how Grant Morrison's JLA book was more action-packed and interesting from the get-go, although of course he didn't have to deal with the not-insignificant burden of a universe reboot. Maybe we'll see a more traditional JL book going forward now from Johns since the original story is told.
Back on the latest issue, Apokolips looked about the same, but the monstrous-looking versions of DeSaad and Steppenwolf were certainly interesting and a change. And I assume the daughter of Darkseid is in fact Pandora? She's apparently got a box...so a Father/Grandfather/Ancestor Box? And are we headed for an "unreboot"? I'm starting to wonder a little.
For JLA ,it feels like a introductory let's-get-this-over -with story arc. Whereas, I think they should be taking it slower and really enjoying this reboot.
Unfortunately, Alpharius, you can only check that in hindsight.
What I like about a healthy mainstream comic book market is the
room it leaves for the comics I like to read. I don't think Hitman or
The Boys could exist in a failing market. I could be wrong, though.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.
The last five issues of Justice League of America shipped 225,482 units in Top 100 sales. The first five issues of Justice League shipped 853,820 units in Top 100 sales (with Justice League #1 in the Top 100 for August, September, and October). In terms of Top 100 sales, however, sales of Justice League have tapered off by over 40% since its first issue. That only seems precipitous because of JL #1's incredible sales. Between issues 2 and 3, it lost 12%, between 3 and 4, it lost 10%, and between 4 and 5, it lost only 2.6%. In other words, sales are approaching a more stable rate of regression. And issue 5's sales were still over 60% better than the best selling 2011 issue of Justice League of America. So yeah, even discounting "ooh shiny" syndrome, Justice League has significantly more readers than Justice League of America.
And, as KC intimated, this has been pretty well true across the board-- although it's somewhat more nuanced than DC simply overtaking Marvel. As you can see below, the issue is more that DC has become much, much more competitive against Marvel.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anung Un Rama wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.
Not sure if sarcasm...
Sarcasm? Not at all -- Marvel has dominated for a while now.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Oh hell ya. Like x10 readership. DC has surpassed marvel in sales now. Something previously thought impossible by guys on the Internet.
Not sure if sarcasm...
I'm always serious. Deadly serious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Manchu looks like my info was a bit out of date. Marvel pulled it out at the last second with the old permanent death of Spider-Man trick. More here: http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/597?articleID=116973 though that's just a 2011 summary. Should be noted 9 of the top 10 best selling books were DC.
Yeah, my analysis accounts for the January figures. The big news for January was that DC got all of the top ten spots. As I noted above, however, Marvel still edged them out in dollars.
I guess charging a buck more a book isn't just to annoy me. Must be some sort of strategy by Marvel to make more money than other people.
I was going to say DC unit sales are even more impressive because they publish less books. However, if they really are publishing 52 books a month then that is quite a bit. I have no idea how many Marvel puts out monthly on average or where you could even find that info.
Anung Un Rama wrote:I'm a bit dissapointed that the whole reboot thing worked out so well for DC. I like my years of continuity.
I think it's still fairly continuous. The Green Lantern continuity is barely changed. All the basics seem to be there in most of the titles. But I understand your point. There's a lot of other stuff that has changed.
Well, I'm not talking about a hypothetical hardcover book of similar dimensions. I'm talking about this particular one. MSRP is 50USD. The paper is better than a mass-market paperback but not by much. The printing also seemed slightly distorted to me. Finally, I don't have a huge interest in TMNT. I have enough interest that slightly higher production values would have cinched it for me. I have a couple of the IDW Transformers hardcovers, for example, despite not being very into Transformers.
Alright, time to post our pull lists. I've basically done this across a couple of posts earlier in the thread but just added some titles and wanted to see what I'm up to now. I'd also like to see what others are consistently reading, as I am very DC-centric but not on principle.
Action Comics All-Star Western Aquaman Batgirl Batman Batman: Odyssey (mini, two more to go) Batman & Robin Batwoman Birds of Prey Blue Beetle Catwoman Dark Knight Deathstroke Detective Comics Fury of Firestorm Huntress (mini, one more to go) Justice League Nightwing Penguin: Pain & Prejudice (mini, just finished) Red Hood & the Outlaws Superboy Supergirl Superman Teen Titans Voltron
I've been thinking of getting into Legion of Super Heroes and Legion Lost. Have any of you guys read them?
I'm also going to pull Earth 2, World's Finest, and Voltron Year One when they come out.
Not read either sadly, although I keep seeing pics of Shadowlass and ponder if I want to read more about the character.
My pull list
Batgirl
Batman
Batman The Dark Knight
Batwoman
Birds of Prey
Catwoman
Fairest
Huntress - just got number 6, so finished.
Nightwing
Justice League
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Suicide Squad
Voodoo
Also have pre-ordered for issue one onwards
Batman Inc
Worlds Finest
What's your opinion of RH&tO so far? I've only read through #5 and the title is fun but kind of all over the place, IMO. I'm still not liking DCNU Starfire.
Manchu wrote:What's your opinion of RH&tO so far? I've only read through #5 and the title is fun but kind of all over the place, IMO. I'm still not liking DCNU Starfire.
That's my opinion too.
They really screwed up Starfire badly - I'm hoping there's a payoff to it all somewhere down the road, but I'm not seeing what it could be,...
Alpharius wrote:They really screwed up Starfire badly - I'm hoping there's a payoff to it all somewhere down the road, but I'm not seeing what it could be,...
How about the flashback scene (can't remember the issue number offhand)? I thought that was pretty awesome but otherwise she's still more like story-furniture than a character, if I'm honest.
Aye the reason I am keeping RH&tO at the moment is for Jason and Roy.
Its annoying as I like where the story seems to be going, and I like the idea they are scraping along the edge of the 'Batman' section of DC, so potential for crossovers later.
However I agree, Kori has a long way to go, I'd say Lobdell has backed off a little on how he started her, regardless of his equivilent 'I don't care what the net thinks' style comments when it all kicked off. However he is dragging his feet at the moment, maybe pride at work, I hope he finds a way to open her up soon, as she is not that engaging a character at the moment. Which is frankly amusing, as it was her inclusion into the comic that made me pick it up in the first place.
Like you, MDS, I was introduced to the character via the Teen Titans cartoon (as, also like you, I did not read any DC -- Batman titles aside -- as a kid) and, while I don't necessarily pine for that painfully naive character, I do think that character was far more charismatic than Mr. Lobdell's take. Now, long past the sturm und drang of #1, I'm starting to realize that he's giving us exactly what's on the tin: REDHOOD: oh right, and the Outlaws or whatever, I guess.
That's okay with me as far as Speedy's concerned. He's such a borderline-redneck everyman and I could frankly care less. Although it's nothing as sexy as misogyny, and so you don't see people who normally wouldn't give a gak talking about it, I'd say Roy is there for the sole purpose of making Jason look broody and edgy. Like I said, it's fine with me. No matter what you call him, it'll take more than what Lobdell has done so far to make this character even potentially interesting of himself.
That's not the case with Starfire, however: a skimpy purple bikini and lots of shapely orange flesh -- even sitting still, she's like one of those Las Vegas neon casino fronts. You expect excitement and fun and all that. Even her fething name is exciting and romantic. Imagine walking into one of those awesome looking casinos and finding nothing going on, no music, no drinks, everybody whispering about getting an early night. Okay, I'm overdoing it a little. She's fought and used her awesome powers a couple of times. But she's still kind of "not there" personality-wise. Even before the TT cartoon, writers made Starfire "alien" by making her strangely congenial and un-self-conscious. Now she's disconnected to the point of being frigid, despite hooking up with Jason off-page and Roy on.
(Whereas she was head-over-heels for Dick. Jason, Jason ... Those therapy bills will really pile up ...)
Mr. Lobdell did give us a little on this via her flashback where she's a proud, cold killer. That was kind of cool just on it's own but I doubt it foreshadows the "payoff" moment when Kori will finally become more developed as a character. She seems to be headed in the warmer direction, based on her interaction with Roy at the end of #5.
One thing that annoys me and yet also kind of entertains me about this book is that it is disorganized on purpose. Mr. Lobdell has said that these guys aren't a team. This isn't the Anti-TT ... or maybe it's perfectly anti-TT by not even being a team? Whatever, that works fine for Jason and Roy. It kind of goes against the grain with Kori, I think, but I can't presume to state it as a "fact" as I'm not a long-term Kori-fan. My kneejerk expectations of the character are exactly what Mr. Lobdell seems intent on getting away from ...
Yeah, i think I agree with everything you said there, especially regarding Kori and how I see her from the Teen Titans perspective.
When I say Jason and Roy are keeping me in at the moment, I maybe should have clarified I'm not cheering them on, they are just adequate characters, neither of which I had caught before in cartoon or comic form, so I have a mild interest to see where it is going.
However Starfire was the draw, and tbh if he has little more to offer on her than this, I'd rather she finds her way back to the Teen Titans, and I can start picking up that book instead.
Like Voodoo I have decided not to make any kind of judgement call to issue 10, as by then they've had plenty of time to get the comic moving, but I still wonder if he can turn this around.
I have not read TT since #1. (I have a substantial backlog -- as Jayme Reyes can especially attest!) As I recall, I was really confused. But I just got TT #6 last night so I will read them all this evening and get back to you.
Just FYI, Scott Lobdell is also writing TT. His other DC book is Superboy, which is (IMO) very good and angsty. His scenes with Rose Wilson left me begging for more so fortunately ...
That's the place-holder cover for Superboy #7. OTOH, I was very disappointed that the upcoming Ravagers title would not include her.
Interesting, so Kori is more a case of he's 'trying to make her different' so Red Hood stands apart from Teen Titans.
That could be his mistake right there, Also makes me wonder if Red Hood/Teen Titans will see some crossover eventually as well.
As to TT, let me know if its good, and I'll try and track some down myself.
There are a few other titles I'd like to try as well, but I do have to draw a line somewhere sadly. If I drop Voodoo or Red Hood eventually, in all likelyhood I will give another DCNU comic a go. Although I did give Fairest a go, thats partially as I like the idea behind it. Might have to look at Fables eventually as well.
The storylines in TT and Superboy are already very entangled, all leading up to a crossover called The Culling beginning with the TT annual, through Superboy and Legion Lost #9, then concluding back in TT. The result? A new title: the Ravagers, with a new (Black) Lightning (and sister, Thunder), a new Beast Boy, and a new Terra! Oh right, and Fairchild from Gen13, bleh, along with some new "big guy" character. But no Rose, whose alter ego actually is (was) Ravager for crying in the mud! Rose will be a player in The Culling, however, because her "rematch" with Superboy is slated for his ninth issue.
Amazing Spider -Man (dropping it though)
Justice League (on the verge of dropping it)
Detective Comics
Batman (picked up the first batch but haven't read them yet)
Avengers
New Avengers
Avenging Spider-Man
Moon Knight
Walking Dead
Invincible
Avengers vs. X-men event stuff (will be getting Uncanny X-men through that event)
Uncanny X-Force (dropping it)
uhhhh, There's probably more but I'll get back to you. In the process of trying to reduce my monthly intake of comics.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and all the Ultimate stuff:
Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimate X-Men
Ultimates
Well, MDS -- have you read RHatO #6 yet? I just got around to it tonight and found it pretty ironic relative to our earlier conversation. Is Scott Lobdell making fun on his critics? Really?
Meanwhile, on the Teen Titan front -- I did read # 1 - 5 (the team setup issues) tonight as promised and I loved them. It's a very fun book and I like all of the characters, except maybe Skitter. I know you've been looking for Raven. You should give Solstice a try. Less emo, more Buddha-like. There's a detail in one of the panels in #1 that makes me think the two are connected somehow, however.
Issue 6 is also good as far as the team goes but Grymm is a gak villain. In issues 2 - 5, Superboy was the villain for crying out loud! That's a tough act to follow, I guess (it really is). And speaking of Superboy ...
I picked up the above-mentioned #7 tonight buuuuut I don't want to read it until reading #6, a cross-over with Supergirl -- meaning I can't read it without reading through Supergirl, which in turn means I have to read through Superman, too! I'll let you know once all of this gets accomplished ...
It's ok I guess. He suffers from multiple personality disorder which I usually don't like to read about but Bendis had an interesting take on it by having those personalities be Spider-Man, Cap and Wolverine. They act as the angel and devil on his shoulders which is neat but I get enough of those guys in my Avengers books. I think the book needs a little something more. A good villian or story arch to tie it all together.
Action Comics
Firestorm
Aquaman
Demon Knights
Captain Atom
Legion Lost
Legion of Superheroes
Legion of Superheroes : forgetsthenameoftheminiseries ( origins ?)
I, Zombie
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Huntress miniseries
Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
Resurrection Man
Captain Atom is verging on the drop edge, as is, alas, Legion of Superheroes. There's nothing technically wrong with it, but i think the sheer number of reboots, new origins and a afctor of most of my favourite characters from the series being in Legion Lost has my interest dropping more than Id like.
.. still I guess I'm a heretic as my favourite era is the 5 year gap/post crisis/legionnaires era so..
Will be picking up Batman Inc -- reread Batman and Son, The Black Glove and R.I.P recently.. God I love Morrison ! -- and will try World's Finest as well at least.
Legion Lost I'll stick with but I'm a bit unsure about the incoming new writer.
I also pick up The Boys and Fables in trade,
.. also very happy to read that Danny the Street is seemingly back in the Dc universe, and in Teen Titans too ? Who'd have thunk !?
reds8n wrote: .. also very happy to read that Danny the Street is seemingly back in the Dc universe, and in Teen Titans too ? Who'd have thunk !?
Wait, wha? Does this mean that the Doom Patrol's past is still in continuity? The Robotman episodes running in My Greatest Adventure would suggest otherwise. :( But I suppose it might not mean anything either way, depending on the details of his appearance. I'll have to give it a look.
You didn't read the Giffen DP series, did you? Danny was in that book, but as Danny the Bungalow after he was demolished except for a single brick. They threw the brick into a house, and voila...Danny the Bungalow.
Red, what's your take on Fury of Firestorm? How about Aquaman #6?
Also, I picked up Legion Lost 1-6 last night to get ready for the Culling but I am completely new to the Legion, outside of their appearances in crossovers. I really like Mon-El and Braniac 5 in the New Krypton books (as well as Tellus, whose appearance was more of a recurring cameo). I've read that it's not much of a reboot and hard for the uninitiated. Any advice?
Heard about the sad fate of Danny, not sure how I feel about that really.
I kind of assumed/hope that Danny is still out there.. somewhere.. with Rebis wandering about whilst Cliff and Jane live in blissful, if chaotic, harmony.
.. one does get sentimental as one gets older eh ?
#6 was the weakest issue of Aquaman so far IMO, but only really as, IMO, the actions and dialogue of the store owner ( worker ?) were a bit too cliched and OTT, although I felt that for a ( ..wait for it...) fish out of water type tale it was well done. Good to sea see Mera get a bit more of the spotlight too. Gorgeous artwork, as ever, and I am intrigued by the forthcoming arc with The Others/his previous team.
Firestorm I am enjoying, I did feel as if the opening arc suddenly shifted, weirdly, at the last minute.
I was pretty certain that Zither and Co. were going to be the villains/bad guys.... and then, almost out of the blue... dad has a job and a fridge full of steak, nice new houses..
.. I kept thinking this would be a trap/hallucination/mind control but t'would seem it is not the case.
Almost as if they'd had to drop or rewrite things quickly ( Simone's departure related perhaps ?) and this was a quick fix to get things where they need to be.
Title has potential, and I like the overall concept and execution of all the various Firestorm forms. the forthcoming Shiva-esque version I think looks pretty cool.
Could perhaps have done without the mahoosive explosion that killed x thousand people. Not from a narrative POV -- fine for the story -- but I am getting a wee bit weary of the amount of death and destruction on such a large scale that seems to be a tad too commonplace in the DC universe right now. I suppose that's just the nature of the beast for now, with everything being ramped up to 11.
Forgot : Also picking up The Shade and will get Earth 2 as well.
The store owner was way OTT but that "in your face" conceit is not new to Johns' Aquaman. The book is premised on making the reader feel special because, by virtue of having bought the title, s/he is one of the few who knows how truly awesome Aquaman is. The prop is that everyone else is not only un-special but also a jerk. I'm surprised no antagonist has kicked a puppy (or seal pup) yet, TBH. I like Aquaman but the most exciting thing that's happened so far is Arthur saying they're going after Atlantis. So #6 struck me as a drag/more persecution complex fodder. Johns better get an adventure underway soon because the title has read like racialist propaganda (merman power!) so far.
I, too, was disturbed by #s 5-6 of FoF. This title is always busy contrasting bright colors with dark undertones. Hell, the heroes at their most powerful look pretty villainous. I guess there are no clear bad guys or good guys in a world where nuclear weapons are "up for grabs" rather than the exclusive purview of monolithic superpowers. It's a hard book to read anyway, thanks to Ronnie and Jason never getting along, but I'm going to stick with it despite the gloom. It's a very relevant book, IMO.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Red, I'd recommend reading this little bit of reflection and thinking about FoF. "Compartmentalization" is a useful concept for analyzing not only the plot devices of Zither Tech and the rogue(ish) Russian but also Jason and Ronnie's own psychological obstacles.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, here comes another Dynamite title I'll likely try out:
The Grand Duke, coming soon from Archaia, also seems promising:
he Eastern Front during WWII: Oberleutnant Wulf, a young Luftwaffe pilot, is horrified by Nazi barbarism and at odds with his fellow pilots, even as he finds himself taking to the skies to fight the infamous “Night Witches” — the 588th Night Bomber Regiment, the most decorated female unit in the Soviet Air Force. Motivated only by his desire to return home to his daughter, Romy, Wulf tries to survive the increasingly desperate and ferocious Eastern Front, while Lilya, the “Red Witch,” leads her comrades against the German invaders. A Romeo-and-Juliet story set against the backdrop of WWII aerial dogfights.
A three-part story inspired by Wagner’s classic opera The Ring of the Nibelung. Siegfried, half-god and half-mortal, is a young boy being raised by Mime, one of the last of the dwarf-goblin Nibelungs, in a dark forest with only wolves for friends and family. While his foster parent only wants to live in peace and solitude, Siegfried yearns to discover who his real parents are and live amongst his own kind, not knowing that Odin, father of the Norse gods, has a destiny planned for him: to fight the dragon Fafnir, guardian of the Rheingold.
Manchu wrote:Well, MDS -- have you read RHatO #6 yet? I just got around to it tonight and found it pretty ironic relative to our earlier conversation. Is Scott Lobdell making fun on his critics? Really?
Not yet, will check if its arrived when I get home, my comics seem all over the shop at the mo, some I am getting issue sevens, while others I've only just recieved issue six.
Manchu wrote: In the meantime, EVERYBODY GO READ TEEN TITANS!
It just went into my pull list at Economic Comics, but only has Batgirl and Batwoman 7 there at the mo.. as painful as it is, waiting till the beginning of next week, when two or three more will be put in there.
I have a feeling, on one or two I have recieved them on a second batch, still first printing mind, but they'd not got enough in the first time to cover all subs.
They also sometime get hit by delays, not often, but I suspect shipping them over the pond, can sometimes lead to slip ups. I'm pretty confident that in both cases its through no fault of their own mind.
Although I might have had Six and not got around to reading it yet, I was distracted a week or so back. It took me a week to get around to reading Batgirl and Batwoman six for example.
There is also the possability I read it, but my mind didn't process the story in any lasting sense. I do have an odd feeling I said to Aura something about, he's taking the mic now when reading a comic a couple of weeks ago, will check if that was RHatO six. In which case my minds has just burbled.
With a little one in the house (only three/four months) days can blend into one another sometimes.
I've heard a lot of criticism about her portrayal in that book, mostly from #1. I didn't find it troubling, myself. I liked her line about the Joker a lot, actually.
Nah, I'm okay, had a feeling that was coming withn the last couple of issues.
If she is no longer in there, I'll be dropping it. King Shark is someone I never saw before and find amusing. Diablo is probably the most interesting not-Harley character in the book, but Deadshot and the in and out baddie brigade probably aren't enough to keep a long term interest.
Nah, I'm okay, had a feeling that was coming withn the last couple of issues.
If she is no longer in there, I'll be dropping it. King Shark is someone I never saw before and find amusing. Diablo is probably the most interesting not-Harley character in the book, but Deadshot and the in and out baddie brigade probably aren't enough to keep a long term interest.
For sure, Deadshot and company aren't all that great. However, King Shark is an endlessly entertaining character. But, realistically, Harley is the star. In any case, #'s 6&7 are definitely worth picking up. They are delightfully twisted.
I gave the revived Swamp Thing and Animal Man a brief look, but neither compared sufficiently well to the Alan Moore or Grant Morrison runs to merit my ongoing attention.
I went ahead and started getting the Suicide Squad series. And so far, ehh........ The "Harley" portrayal has been crap. They just changed her way too drastically. I miss the oversized mallet and popgurn revolver. Not to mention her outfit and ability to actually blend in to the world as a normal woman sometimes. They screwed that one up what with the "skin condition".
And the new lil blurb of an origin story in #7 was garbage too, more evidence though that supports my following theory.
She is an imposter, see the series hype about an imposter and traitor on the team. Mind you I am just guessing here that it turns out to be her.
My personal theory is that the real Harley and Joker are hiding out somewhere plotting something and drinking fancy umbrella drinks. I didn't read the Detective series about whatever happened to the Joker, but I think I have a pretty good idea.
Harley is my only and favourite comic character, but this version of her is incredibly one dimensional and rather boring.
And what the ^$#&! is up with the little half cape?
Red Hood and the Outlaws," which Lobdell characterized as his favorite, will send Starfire into space as "Roy and Jason are stung to learn she's this very feared, respected commander of a space ship and her reputation is such that entire armadas will turn in another direction when she shows up," he said. "She's that awesome."
Well I'am waiting for the 3rd number of the SW Knights of the Old Republic series. Read a preview that pretty much hinted at Griff (maybe Jarael, fingers crossed) returning to the series so I'am looking forward to that. This is the first series I got into after my mate leant me the graphic novel versions of the last series. I have to admit the slow pace of release is irksome and partly agree with him that it might have been better to just wait for the graphic novel versions to be released. Been pretty good so far, interesting in whats happened to Zayne and introducing a fairly interesting villain to the plot. So this one should be a blast.
Personally after reading Revan and from what I gather about TOR I expect the series to divulge more about the Mandalorians links to the True Sith empire which were already hinted at quite early in the previous season.
BTW how many comics make up a graphic novel for dark horse?
Alan Moore wrote:“It seems a bit desperate to go after a book famous for its artistic integrity. It’s a finite series,” says Moore. “Watchmen was said to actually provide an alternative to the superhero story as an endless soap opera. To turn that into just another superhero comic that goes on forever demonstrates exactly why I feel the way I do about the comics industry. It’s mostly about franchises. Comic shops these days barely sell comics. It’s mostly spin-offs and toys."
...
“The same is true of music and cinema,” he adds. “It seems that every movie is a remake of something that was better when it was first released in a foreign language, as a 1960s TV show, or even as a comic book. Now you’ve got theme park rides as the source material of movies. The only things left are breakfast cereal mascots. In our lifetime, we will see Johnny Depp playing Captain Crunch.”
Manchu wrote:Who is Cyclops currently sleeping with? Are the X-folks winning or the Avengers? Are they all Skrulls again? When is Jean Gray coming back???
Emma Frost. Everyone's one's getting along fine right now. No. Surprisingly, never.
Manchu wrote:Let me know when she's about to come back and I might buy a Marvel comic.
Bringing back the dead until your rosters are bloated is one of the reasons I
gave up on following standard continuity. The problem if you don't bring back
characters is that you don't generate new audiences if they don't get what
the whole deal with losing certain characters was.
For example, mention Cypher and Warlock to an old New Mutants fan and
watch them cry. Then mention the same to an, ah, what's the current title
filling the space of the New Mutants?
Normally I'd agree with you Malfred but Phoenix is always supposed to come back because y'know she's a Phoenix. I think that's the problem this time she didn't die she like ascended to godhood or something weird.
@Alpharius: I've been eagerly awaiting this Atlantis storyline! Have you been reading Aquaman so far?
@Malfred: For my own part, I like that there are comics with finality as a major aspect of their continuity -- but I also like, love even, that the DC pantheon in particular can be spun out again and again to be relevant to each generation. I don't want the final, definitive end of Zeus or Ares or Artemis so that we can have some new mythological beings, for example. Zeus, et al., are still full of relevance and can yet be more deeply explored. This can also be said of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.
Manchu wrote:@Alpharius: I've been eagerly awaiting this Atlantis storyline! Have you been reading Aquaman so far?
I have been, and I'm liking it quite a bit.
So far, the new DC revamp has me eagerly anticipating each new issue of:
Aquaman
Flash
Almost all the Batman books (Dark Knight is on the fence though)
JLA (kind of)
Action - Superman isn't doing 'it' for me yet. I hold out hope though.
The new GL series has been enjoyable too.
Animal Man/Swamp thing are OK, and I've liked Resurrection Man more than I thought I would.
As for Marvel, I still pay attention to Spidey, FF and Iron Man/Thor/Avengers stuff. Moon Knight too...
No X-men for me anymore though.
I also enjoyed the hyper-violent over-the-top "The Strange Talents of Luther Strode" as well, from Image....
A cool, new take on the classic Dark Knight franchise, Beware the Batman incorporates Batman’s core characters with a rogues gallery of new villains not previously seen in animated form. Along with backup from ex-secret agent Alfred and lethal swordstress Katana, the Dark Knight faces the twisted machinations of Gotham City’s criminal underworld led by the likes of Anarky, Professor Pyg, Mister Toad and Magpie. Produced by Warner Bros. Animation, this action-packed detective thriller deftly redefines what we have come to know as a “Batman show.” Featuring cutting-edge CGI visuals to match the intricate twists and turns of the narrative, Batman steps out of the shadows and into the spotlight for an entirely new generation of fans. With WBA’s Sam Register executive producing, and Batman Beyond’s Glen Murakami and Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated’s Mitch Watson producing, Beware the Batman, based on characters from DC Comics, is coming soon to Cartoon Network!
Saw the Green Lantern pilot. It was okay, but not nearly as good as Young Justice and I'm not a big fan of the animation style either. I'll probably give this a try, because I loved the last 3 Batman cartoons.
The new GL show is kind of fun but the animation feels somewhat hollow. (Then again, I felt the same of ReBoot and some folks LOVE that show.) It's also a shade too melodramatic at times -- like Razor's torture-induced flashbacks in the EP03, which had a genuine Vader-style "NOOOOOOOOOO" moment. I'll have to say, they nailed Hal's character and it's cool to see the GLs being space cops instead of Earth-bound superheroes. All in all, I give that series a B- so far and look forward to things picking up once there are a few more characters. The trouble with Hal zooming around the galactic boonies is the Carol is waaay back on Earth. I'm afraid his dialog with Kilowog and the semi-sentient ship's computer is not quite as spicy.
A cool, new take on the classic Dark Knight franchise, Beware the Batman incorporates Batman’s core characters with a rogues gallery of new villains not previously seen in animated form. Along with backup from ex-secret agent Alfred and lethal swordstress Katana, the Dark Knight faces the twisted machinations of Gotham City’s criminal underworld led by the likes of Anarky, Professor Pyg, Mister Toad and Magpie. Produced by Warner Bros. Animation, this action-packed detective thriller deftly redefines what we have come to know as a “Batman show.” Featuring cutting-edge CGI visuals to match the intricate twists and turns of the narrative, Batman steps out of the shadows and into the spotlight for an entirely new generation of fans. With WBA’s Sam Register executive producing, and Batman Beyond’s Glen Murakami and Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated’s Mitch Watson producing, Beware the Batman, based on characters from DC Comics, is coming soon to Cartoon Network!
So, I typically really like Batman cartoons, but this just looks and sounds bad to me.
I'm glad they are thinking of trying some new villains out. However, the part about Alfred and Katana just sounds suck tastic.
Katana with Batman?? Really, I thought he had enough trouble telling Damian to stop killing folks.. partially I need to see it just for that, but yeah, sounds odd.
Probably doesn't help my first encounter with Katana has been BoP.
On a side note relating to him forming teams, Batman Inc.. gief to me. I'm just twidling my thumbs waiting for it to drop into my pull list. May isn't it?
So we finally got some news about how the DC relaunch will look in Germany:
A few books will come in pairs, that means two single issues combined in one book: Justice League and Teen Titans, Batman: Dark Knight and Nightwing, Action Comics and Supergirl. Detective Comics will get two a regular release, Aquaman, Flash, JL Dark and appareantly Batman & Robin some time later will all be released as TPBs.
So I ask you my fellow Dakkanauts, which one is worth it? I'm interested in Action Comics, but don't care for Supergirl.
How are the Teen Titans so far? I love the Young Justice cartoon and Tim Drake as Red Robin, is that a reason to read it?
And for some reason I am interested in Aquaman.
! 
I'm starting to wonder a little.
