Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
No, wasn't that one. I think that part of the discussion really focused more on the news coverage between the two, and while we talked about the lack of rioting in Salt Lake I don't think anybody tried to make that a "Race X doesn't riot" thing.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
Turns out the quote in question was about an unarmed Hispanic who was shot
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
Turns out the quote in question was about an unarmed Hispanic who was shot
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
Turns out the quote in question was about an unarmed Hispanic who was shot
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Do you have a link? I need to see that level of derp for myself
That was somewhere deep in the past of that thread, and I'm not even sure if that post is still there since I triangled it. I'll check later on tonight.
Was it when the Black cop shot the guy in Salt Lake?
Turns out the quote in question was about an unarmed Hispanic who was shot
So are you saying Hispanics don't riot
Just go back to OWS...
It was equal opportunity protesting then.
Where is my water cannon dammit
Edit
Seems GA Dem's are using this incident for voter turn out there
FERGUSON • Police Officer Darren Wilson told investigators that in a struggle for his pistol inside a police SUV, Michael Brown pressed the barrel of Wilson’s gun against the officer’s hip, according to a source with knowledge of his statements.
Wilson tried to prevent Brown from reaching the trigger, the source said, and when he thought he had control he fired. But Brown’s hand was blocking the mechanism.
When Wilson got two shots off, Brown was hit in the hand and ran. Wilson fired again when Brown turned back and charged at him, Wilson told investigators.
The white officer’s shooting of the unarmed black 18-year-old triggered protests, riots and a national debate over race and policing.
In the most detailed account of Wilson’s version of the Aug. 9 event to be made public, the source described how the encounter started, Brown’s refusal to stop charging at Wilson and the injuries suffered by both men.
Wilson’s version is only one of many told by various witnesses. Two witnesses say Wilson grabbed Brown through the window and tried to pull him into the SUV. Some say that after Brown broke free, he either did not move back toward Wilson, or was stumbling or walking when he was shot.
Investigators have repeatedly declined to comment on details of the investigation.
Told of Wilson’s version of events, Brown family lawyer Anthony Gray scoffed, calling it “absurd from beginning to end” and a “concocted version of events that nobody supports,” referring to other public witness statements.
Gray said the version of Dorian Johnson, who was with Brown, was more plausible. He said that the only important part of the story was the final few shots fired and that Wilson had to be justified in taking every shot.
“This story just doesn’t even make good nonsense.”
WILSON’S STORY
After he finished with a call for a sick baby, Wilson said, he spotted Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, walking down the middle of Canfield Drive, with traffic passing on both sides.
Wilson asked or ordered the men to move to the sidewalk, said the source, who did not want to be identified because a St. Louis County grand jury and the Department of Justice are still investigating.
Johnson pointed out the pair’s destination, over and behind Wilson’s marked police Chevrolet Tahoe SUV, and kept walking.
Brown walked by holding cigarillos in his hand, and cursed Wilson, the source said.
Wilson told investigators that after Brown passed by, Wilson realized that Johnson’s clothing matched a recent radio alert about a suspect in a robbery at a nearby market where cigarillos had been taken. Wilson radioed for assistance and backed up his SUV to Brown and Johnson.
The source said Wilson told investigators he had placed the SUV in park. When Wilson tried to get out of the SUV, Brown slammed its door shut and punched Wilson in the left side of the face through the open window, the source said.
Wilson, trapped in the front seat, couldn’t use his pepper spray in the confined space because it would incapacitate him as well. His baton was at the back of his utility belt, where he was essentially sitting on it. He did not have a Taser. So he drew his gun.
Brown grabbed the pistol using his right hand, with his elbow against Wilson. Wilson described Brown as incredibly strong, the source said.
During the struggle, Brown handed the cigarillos to Johnson, then swung his left hand and hit Wilson on the right side of the face. Wilson said he almost lost consciousness, the source said. Brown then began to use his left hand in the struggle for the gun, and turned the pistol until the barrel was against Wilson’s hip.
Wilson positioned his finger to try to prevent Brown from reaching the trigger. When Wilson pulled himself back toward the passenger side of the SUV, Brown’s grip loosened enough for Wilson to try to pull the trigger, the source said.
But the gun didn’t fire. Wilson said he believed that Brown’s hand may have been on the hammer, preventing it from moving, the source said.
The second time Wilson pulled the trigger, the gun did fire. Wilson told investigators he thought the bullet had struck Brown in the hand, the source said. Broken window glass was everywhere, and blood was on the door, the gun and Wilson’s hands. At the time, Wilson said, he wasn’t sure whose blood it was.
The struggle continued, and Wilson attempted to pull the trigger twice more. The source said Wilson thought Brown’s hand may have interfered again. Wilson was able to fire a second shot, and Brown ran.
Wilson used his radio to report that shots had been fired and ask for additional cars, but during the struggle, his radio had been switched from the Ferguson channel, the source said.
Wilson said he had gotten out of the SUV and chased Brown.
The source said Wilson did not recall yelling or saying anything then, but Brown had stopped and turned.
Wilson said Brown had not had his hands up; his left hand was slightly out, fingers pointing down. His right hand was grasping his shirt. Then, Wilson told investigators, Brown began running toward him.
Wilson said he had yelled for Brown to stop, then fired, the source said. Brown flinched as if he was hit, and Wilson said he had stopped shooting. Brown continued running toward him, and Wilson said he had fired several more shots. The source said that Wilson had recalled that Brown’s head was down when the last shot hit him there.
When Brown fell to the ground, his forward momentum caused his feet to fly up, Wilson said.
Wilson then made another radio call, for an ambulance.
Later, Wilson drove himself to the police station and was taken to the hospital by other officers. Wilson said he had bruises on the left and right sides of his face and scratches on his neck, the source said. He had no broken bones.
THE AUTOPSY NARRATIVE
Brown’s autopsy documents include a summary from St. Louis County Detective Patrick J. Hokamp’s preliminary investigation. His account was similar to Wilson’s.
The autopsy report, obtained by the Post-Dispatch, also says that Brown had THC, the mind-altering ingredient of marijuana, in his blood and urine. The report says a “leafy green substance” was submitted as evidence, and a person with knowledge of the investigation said the substance was marijuana. That source also said that Brown’s blood and DNA had been found inside the SUV and on Wilson’s gun.
WITNESSES DISAGREE
Most of the witnesses who have spoken publicly saw only a portion of the incident.
Johnson, 22, has said that Wilson used a profanity when he told them to get on the sidewalk, and nearly sideswiped them as he backed up. Wilson opened the door but it bounced off the men, Johnson has said, and Wilson then grabbed Brown by the throat and, later, grabbed him by the arm and tried to pull him into the car. Johnson said that Wilson’s gun had been out and that he had shot Brown once before Brown, who was bleeding, ran away.
Johnson said that Wilson had chased Brown and shot him once before Brown turned around. Johnson said that Wilson had fatally shot Brown as Brown was getting to the ground with his hands in the air.
Several other witnesses have said that Wilson fired at Brown’s fleeing form, perhaps causing Brown to turn when he was some distance from the SUV.
From there, the accounts differ. Their versions have included that Brown stood still, or walked, staggered, stumbled or fell toward Wilson. Some witnesses said Brown’s hands were up; others said they were not. One witness said Wilson was backing away as he fired at Brown.
None quoted in media accounts has said that Brown charged Wilson.
Here's the Post's report on the "Official Autopsy" report:
The accompanying toxicology report shows he had been using marijuana.
Those documents, prepared by the St. Louis County medical examiner and obtained by the Post-Dispatch, provide the most detailed description to date of the wounds Brown sustained in a confrontation Aug. 9 with Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson.
A source with knowledge of Wilson’s statements said the officer had told investigators that Brown had struggled for Wilson’s pistol inside a police SUV and that Wilson had fired the gun twice, hitting Brown once in the hand. Later, Wilson fired additional shots that killed Brown and ignited a national controversy.
The St. Louis medical examiner, Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, reviewed the autopsy report for the newspaper. He said Tuesday that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car.”
Graham said the examination indicated a shot traveled from the tip of Brown’s right thumb toward his wrist. The official report notes an absence of stippling, powder burns around a wound that indicate a shot fired at relatively short range.
But Graham said, “Sometimes when it’s really close, such as within an inch or so, there is no stipple, just smoke.”
The report on a supplemental microscopic exam of tissue from the thumb wound showed foreign matter “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm.”
Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, said the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.” She added, “If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun.”
Sources told the Post-Dispatch that Brown’s blood had been found on Wilson’s gun.
Melinek also said the autopsy did not support witnesses who have claimed Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.
She said Brown was facing Wilson when Brown took a shot to the forehead, two shots to the chest and a shot to the upper right arm. The wound to the top of Brown’s head would indicate he was falling forward or in a lunging position toward the shooter; the shot was instantly fatal.
A sixth shot that hit the forearm traveled from the back of the arm to the inner arm, which means Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson, as some witnesses have said, Melinek said. That trajectory shows Brown probably was not taking a standard surrender position with arms above the shoulders and palms out when he was hit, she said.
The county medical examiner, Dr. Mary Case, could not be reached. The assistant who performed the autopsy, Dr. Gershom Norfleet, relayed word that he would not comment.
That post mortem, conducted the morning after Brown’s death, comports in most ways with the findings of a private autopsy arranged by Brown’s family and made public Aug. 18.
In that one, Dr. Michael M. Baden, a nationally known forensic pathologist, said none of Brown’s wounds appeared to have been from shots fired at close range.
Baden noted then that there was no gunshot residue on the body, so it appeared to him that the muzzle of the weapon was at least one or two feet away. He said, “It could have been 30 feet away.”
A third autopsy was ordered by federal officials as part of their separate investigation of the shooting. Results of that one have not been revealed.
The county and private autopsies agree on the number and location of the wounds.
The official autopsy also confirmed that tissue from Brown was found on the exterior of the driver’s side of Wilson’s vehicle.
“Someone got an injury that tore off skin and left it on the car,” Graham said. “That fits with everything else that came out. There’s blood in the car, now skin on the car, that shows something happened right there.”
The toxicology test, performed by a St. Louis University laboratory, revealed tetrahydrocannabinol, THC for short, in Brown’s blood and urine.
Alfred Staubus, a consultant in forensic toxicology at the Ohio State University College of Pharmacy, said that THC could impair judgment or slow reaction times but that there was no reliable measurement to make those conclusions.
States that have legalized marijuana have struggled with the issue of how to measure impairment.
“The detection of THC in the postmortem blood of Michael Brown really indicates his recent use of marijuana (within a few hours) and that he may or may not have been impaired at the time of his death,” Staubus wrote in an email.
Local social media is exploding now...
And... we're going to have GREAT weather these next few weeks... so, I'm apprehensive to what's coming next.
It's amazing what factual evidence will do to dat 'tesitimony'
Benjamin L. Crump, a lawyer for the Brown family, said Brown’s family and supporters will not be persuaded by the autopsy report or eyewitness statements that back Wilson’s account of the incident.
“The family has not believed anything the police or this medical examiner has said,” Crump said. “They have their witnesses. We have seven witnesses that we know about that say the opposite.”
And that's an actual quote from the Attorney of the Brown family. "Will not be persuaded by the autopsy report?" Seriously?
And here's another beautiful nugget from that article:
Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.
This uncle tom gak has got to stop...... it's not healthy for our country.
Yeah... there's a lot of speculation that this information was being leaked deliberately... with an okay from Holder's DoJ as they're obviously not going to charge him with any civil rights infractions.
This is done to try letting the Ferguson protesters down easily, to let them know what is coming.
whembly wrote: Yeah... there's a lot of speculation that this information was being leaked deliberately... with an okay from Holder's DoJ as they're obviously not going to charge him with any civil rights infractions.
This is done to try letting the Ferguson protesters down easily, to let them know what is coming.
Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.
Because Wilson is white and Brown was black, the case has ignited intense debate over how police interact with African American men. But more than a half-dozen unnamed black witnesses have provided testimony to a St. Louis County grand jury that largely supports Wilson’s account of events of Aug. 9, according to several people familiar with the investigation who spoke with The Washington Post.
Some of the physical evidence — including blood spatter analysis, shell casings and ballistics tests — also supports Wilson’s account of the shooting, The Post’s sources said, which cast Brown as an aggressor who threatened the officer’s life. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because they are prohibited from publicly discussing the case.
The grand jury is expected to complete its deliberations next month over whether Wilson broke the law in confronting Brown, and the pending decision appears to be prompting the unofficial release of information about the case and what the jurors have been told.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published Brown’s official county autopsy report, an analysis of which also suggests the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.
Experts told the newspaper that Brown was first shot at close range and may have been reaching for Wilson’s weapon while the officer was still in his vehicle and Brown was standing at the driver’s side window. The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb, the autopsy says.
Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who reviewed the report for the Post-Dispatch, said it “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”
Melinek, who is not involved in the investigation, said the autopsy did not support those who claim Brown was attempting to flee or surrender when Wilson shot him in the street.
Benjamin L. Crump, a lawyer for the Brown family, said Brown’s family and supporters will not be persuaded by the autopsy report or eyewitness statements that back Wilson’s account of the incident.
“The family has not believed anything the police or this medical examiner has said,” Crump said. “They have their witnesses. We have seven witnesses that we know about that say the opposite.”
Crump also said one of the reasons the family and protesters were opposed to a grand jury proceeding was because it gives authorities too much control over what the public would learn about the case, as evidenced by the leaks.
“The family wanted a jury trial that was transparent, not one done in secrecy, not something that they believe is an attempt to sweep their son’s death under the rug,” he said.
Wilson’s lawyer, James P. Towey Jr., did not return a call seeking comment.
Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.
The St. Louis County Police Department and the FBI are investigating the shooting, and evidence gathered by both agencies is being presented to the grand jury, which started meeting in mid-August and is expected to conclude its work early next month.
The evidence the grand jury is reviewing is voluminous. From the beginning, St. Louis County prosecuting attorney Robert McCulloch decided jurors would hear and review all credible and reliable evidence, including testimony from each eyewitness.
Jurors have also been provided with the St. Louis County autopsy report, including toxicology test results for Brown that show he had levels of Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana. The Post’s sources said the levels in Brown’s body may have been high enough to trigger hallucinations.
The county police, the FBI and the Justice Department all declined to comment on the information The Washington Post received regarding testimony and evidence in the case.
“The independent federal investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown is ongoing,” said Dena Iverson, a Justice Department spokeswoman. “We will not comment on irresponsible leaks and rumors about the status of the investigation.”
Tim Fitch, a former St. Louis County Police Chief, said there are benefits to leaking crucial information to the public ahead of a grand jury announcement.
“I think it’s good to get some accurate information out there. That way on game day, it’s not a surprise to people,” said Fitch, who retired last year from the county police department, which is now conducting the investigation into Wilson.
Ed Magee, McCulloch’s spokesman, said the leaks won’t stop the deliberations.
“We will continue to present evidence to the grand jury, and our office is not responsible for these leaks.”
During his testimony before the grand jury last month, Wilson told jurors the encounter with Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson began when he ordered the two men to stop walking in the street and get onto the sidewalk.
Things quickly escalated, Wilson told jurors, with Brown shouting an expletive at him and refusing to move to the sidewalk. In August, a lawyer for Johnson said the officer used profanity in ordering them onto the sidewalk.
The Post sources interviewed in recent days said Wilson testified that he stopped his police SUV and opened the door to approach Brown, but the 18-year-old used both hands to slam the door shut, trapping him in his patrol vehicle. Brown then reached through the open window and began to repeatedly punch the officer in the face, Wilson testified.
The officer said he reached for his gun to defend himself, but Brown grabbed it and only let go after it fired twice. Two casings from Wilson’s gun were recovered from the police SUV, the sources said.
After he was shot in the altercation at the vehicle, Brown fled with Johnson, and Wilson testified that he ordered Brown to stop and lower himself to the ground. Instead, Brown turned and moved toward the officer. Wilson said he feared Brown, who was 6-foot-4 and weighed nearly 300 pounds, would overpower him so he repeatedly fired his gun.
Brown was shot at least six times, according to all three autopsies that have been conducted.
The Post-Dispatch, in a story published early Wednesday on Wilson’s account of the incident, cited a single “source with knowledge of his statements” in providing additional details. The story said that Wilson testified that during the struggle at the SUV, Brown pressed the barrel of his gun against the officer’s hip and attempted to prevent Wilson from reaching the trigger of his gun. According to Wilson’s testimony, the Post-Dispatch said, Brown was running toward Wilson when he was fatally shot and that his hands were not up.
The source also told the newspaper that Wilson told jurors he was trapped in the front seat and couldn’t use his pepper spray to subdue Brown because it would have also incapacitated him. His baton was also out of reach, at the back of his utility belt, pinned between his body and the seat. He also did not have a Taser, so he drew his gun, the Post-Dispatch reported.
The autopsy says that Brown was shot in the forehead, twice in the chest and once in the upper right arm. The fatal wound on top of Brown’s head indicates that he was leaning or falling forward and the path of a sixth shot, which hit Brown’s forearm and traveled from the back of his arm to his inner arm, means Brown’s palms were not facing Wilson in an act of surrender, according to analysts cited by the Post-Dispatch.
In interviews with The Washington Post, sources said blood spatter evidence shows that Brown was heading toward the officer during their face-off, but analysis of the evidence did not reveal how fast Brown was moving.
Wilson’s testimony conflicts with several public accounts.
According to Dorian Johnson, after Wilson ordered them out of the street, he put his vehicle in reverse and opened the front door so forcefully that it bounced against the two men.
Johnson has said that Wilson, while still in the SUV, grabbed Brown by his collar. Brown was trying to free himself and never tried to get the gun, Johnson said. Wilson drew his gun and threatened to shoot, then it went off, he said. Johnson and Brown then ran.
“He shot again and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and put his hands in the air and started to get down, and the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and fired several more shots,” Johnson told CBS News in an interview.
Several other witnesses gave media interviews saying they saw activity at the vehicle, but each said they were unclear about the nature of that encounter. They have offered varied though fundamentally similar versions of what happened afterward. Brown, witnesses said, was fleeing when Wilson opened fire on the street. After being hit by a bullet, Brown turned around with his hands up, trying to surrender, when the officer shot him several more times, they said.
Exactly how high Brown’s hands were has been inconsistent in the accounts, and at least one witness said that after Brown was shot, he appeared to take a step toward Wilson. That witness said, however, Brown had his arms around his stomach before hitting the ground.
Protests erupted after the shooting, when demonstrators squared off against police who used tear gas and rubber-coated bullets to try to disperse crowds. Images of police patrolling the streets during the day and clashing with demonstrators at night shocked many and drew concern from the White House and some Washington lawmakers.
The grand jury proceedings are unusual. Typically in a grand jury case, the lead investigator will provide an overview of his findings and perhaps one or two witnesses will testify.
However, McCulloch decided from the beginning that the grand jury in this case would sort through all the evidence. And, instead of telling grand jury members what charges they believe Wilson should face, prosecutors are involving the grand jury as co-investigators.
Justin Moyer, Lindsey Bever and Alice Crites contributed to this report.
I've been hearing/reading local information that this is being leaked because Wilson supporters fear that he’ll be unfairly indicted anyway for political reasons, even though there’s no probable cause (allegedly) to think he murdered Brown. That’s probably the outcome political leaders would prefer... an indictment followed by acquittal so that they can say the system took the incident seriously enough to force Wilson to defend his actions in open court.
Well, the new place in St. Charles quiet and peaceful and far out of the way. I look forward to enjoying a martini over the weekend and watching the glow from the city burning.
Untruth and Consequences in Ferguson We’re only now starting to learn what happened the day Michael Brown was shot. But how much will the truth really matter at this point?
It’s time we admit something: Increasingly, it’s starting to look like Officer Darren Wilson acted appropriately that fateful day in Ferguson.
Now, until now, I have not weighed in on the Michael Brown shooting—except peripherally. I wrote about how it made conservatives lose faith in the police, discussed the temptation for journalists to become part of the story they are covering, and suggested the media’s incessant coverage might have fanned the Ferguson flames.
But even for someone like me—a commentator whose job description includes prematurely weighing in on any issue that captures the nation’s attention—the fundamental question of culpability was never an easy one. It always felt like a “he said he said” situation—with ideological tribalism, not evidence, guiding us to assume our positions on our respective sides.
So I avoided it.
Frankly, we still don’t know enough to say conclusively what happened the day Brown was shot. But it’s no longer absurd to speculate. As the official autopsy report obtained by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch demonstrates, Brown was shot in the hand at close range—with gunpowder residue in the wound. Both findings seem to buttresses Wilson’s contention that there was a struggle over the officer’s pistol. Additionally, a forensic pathologist interviewed by the paper noted that “the autopsy did not support witnesses who have claimed Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.”
And there’s more: The Washington Post is now reporting that “more than a half-dozen unnamed black witnesses have provided testimony to a St. Louis County grand jury that largely supports Wilson’s account of events of Aug. 9,” according to “several people familiar with the investigation.”
Again, there are lingering questions, to be sure, but mounting evidence suggests this this case is much more complex than many previously thought. But let me get this straight: Two and a half months after the shooting and the protests and the rioting, we are just now starting to find out what really happened? And the only reason we’re finding this out now is that it was leaked?
There were always a few poking holes in the image of a Brown as a “gentle giant," but the dominant media narrative—which, in fairness, was buttressed by witness accounts—seemed to be that he was murdered in cold blood, with his hands up, for the crime of being black. There were, of course, attempts to debunk this—and leaks to tarnish his image—but those voices were mostly overshadowed by a media that was in many cases had already admittedly sided with the protesters.
Now, the obvious thing for me to do here is to go all Shep Smith on you and shame the media for hyping and prejudging this case—for prematurely reporting on rumor and innuendo and helping stoke unrest. And that would be a valid, if pointless, thing for me to do.
But perhaps we can find a way to avoid this from happening again. I think the first obvious thing we can do is videotape every police interaction—body cams, in-car cameras—you name it. And declassify them. Video solves a lot of mysteries. We don’t know what happened to Bristol Palin, but we do know what happened to Ray Rice’s wife.
And rather than viewing it as a violation of privacy, police officers should welcome this development. Because, here’s the thing: There are a lot of good ethical and practical reasons why the police can’t really defend themselves in the court of public opinion—at least, not adequately. First, since they should always ostensibly be on the side of finding the truth, police PR campaigns create an obvious conflict of interest, making it look like they are engaged in the Blue Code of Silence. Additionally, any information they release could potentially poison a jury pool. I could go on…
This puts the police at an obvious disadvantage. Maybe in the old days, you could afford to wait a few months and let the process take care of itself—allow the slow wheels of justice grind on. But one gets the sense that this is impractical in the era of Twitter and 24-7 news coverage. Shutting up is a bad idea. You see this a lot when individuals who are accused of something decide to clam up, often under the advice of their attorney. When people accused of something make smart legal decisions, they are often also making very unwise public relations decisions. And I think the same thing applies to this situation.
The truth is that first impressions matter. In politics, once one candidate “defines’ the other candidate (before he can define himself) it’s nearly impossible to change the narrative. It’s game over. Once people believe something, they are disinclined to change their minds—even when overwhelming evidence suggests they should. But in the court of law these, initial perceptions matter little. Darren Wilson might have been convicted in the court of public opinion, but all that matters to the law is that—if he’s innocent—he should be be exonerated (or, in this case, simply not prosecuted) once the evidence is shown.
In the real world, however, public opinion does matter—and not just for Officer Wilson. People who believe the original narrative that was repeated ad nauseam back in August might not trust the newly-revealed evidence—or (and this speaks to the media’s culpability) might not even learn about the recent findings, which haven’t garnered nearly as much attention as the story was getting back in August and September. And how will the people who still believe Brown was murdered in cold blood react if Wilson gets off scot-free?
Keep in mind that retroactive facts and evidence arguably matter less than first impressions—especially if we don’t vigorously push back on false narratives. And so, as Jonah Goldberg notes, the story we were originally told about Brown’s shooting “will live on for decades to come. That’s in no small part because many decent Americans have locked themselves into the belief that the heroic chapter of the civil-rights movement can never end. The story must go on so they can continue to cast themselves as the heroes.”
Regardless of whether or not officer Wilson is cleared, the original narrative will likely shape the context regarding how the next incident—and there’s always a next incident—is framed and perceived. And many—if not most minds—Michael Brown will always be a gentle giant.
Honest Question. Ok, So, All Forensics support the cop tesitmony.
But not Witness Statements. All which are the same "He had his hands up, running away"
What is with them them. How could they have all seen the same thing that DIDNT happen?? Conspiracy or something?
Incorrect, about a half of dozen blacks witnesses under oath actually supported officer Wilson's account.
Yup. Had you read the previous articles, you'd have seen this, and that they haven't been made public because the black witnesses supporting Wilson fear for their safety.
The mother of Michael Brown could be charged with felony armed robbery for allegedly attacking people in a Ferguson, Mo., parking lot because they were selling T-shirts honoring the late teenager.
The Ferguson Police Department is currently investigating claims that Lesley McSpadden brought a group of people — including her own mother — to beat vendors and rob them of their “Justice for Mike Brown” merchandise Oct. 18, The Smoking Gun has learned.
One person was hospitalized in the reported attack and another unidentified alleged victim was reportedly beaten with a pipe.
McSpadden’s former mother-in-law, Pearlie Gordon, was among those beaten by “a large group of about 20-30 subjects” who had “jumped out of vehicles and rushed” the group of sellers, according to the police report.
A grand jury is deliberating whether to bring charges against the Ferguson, Mo., police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown, pictured. Big'mike Jr Brown via Facebook A grand jury is deliberating whether to bring charges against the Ferguson, Mo., police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown, pictured.
Gordon, 54, was allegedly knocked to the ground and repeatedly struck in the head. She detailed the brief exchange she had with McSpadden at the time of the attack.
“You can’t sell this s**t,” McSpadden allegedly said, according to the report.
Gordon responded that “unless McSpadden could produce documentation stating that she had a patent on her son’s name (Gordon) was going to continue to sell her merchandise,” according to the report.
Countless T-shirts and other 'Justice for Michael Brown' merchandise are being sold online. Similar items were allegedly stolen by Brown's mother and others. Amazon Countless T-shirts and other 'Justice for Michael Brown' merchandise are being sold online. Similar items were allegedly stolen by Brown's mother and others.
More than $1500 in merchandise and $400 in cash was allegedly stolen by the attackers.
Once the investigation is finished, Ferguson police will decide whether to charge McSpadden and the others with felony armed robbery.
The news comes as a grand jury is expected to announce whether to bring criminal charges against the Ferguson police officer who fatally shot Brown during a confrontation.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It makes me question her sanity
"Hey, my son is being portrayed as a violent thug, let's do some thing that shows where he got it from"
I would bet it has less to do with lack of sanity than it does with jealousy over $$$$.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It makes me question her sanity
"Hey, my son is being portrayed as a violent thug, let's do some thing that shows where he got it from"
Not condoning this woman's actions at all, but she did just lose her son and her son's death has touched off a national discussion about police violence. She has been under intense scrutiny via the media all the while having to come to terms with the fact her son was recently killed. I don't know how I'd behave in a similar situation, but I can imagine I would not be thinking as rationally as I would under normal circumstances. Obviously, attacking people and robbing them is not the way to handle whatever emotions are surging through her, but the larger context of the strain she is under should be considered as well.
Now, it is certainly possible that her actions were motivated by greed, or family grievances (wasn't one of the women attacked a former mother-in-law?) but without knowing the full story I am not ready to label her crazy just yet. This lady is under some extreme pressure and I think anyone could potentially "snap" and lash out given what she has experienced in the last two months.
And again, her actions were wrong in this incident. Absolutely wrong and she should suffer the consequences of assaulting and robbing people, but she is a bereaved mother with a whole nation of gawkers at her back. That isn't normal, and likely would compound the difficult issues associated with grief.
If something of the like happened locally I know I for one would have at least consulted with the relatives of the victim before printing up a bunch of T-shirts. Not because I'd necessarily be legally bound to, but it would have been the tactful thing to do, the way I see it.
If something of the like happened locally I know I for one would have at least consulted with the relatives of the victim before printing up a bunch of T-shirts. Not because I'd necessarily be legally bound to, but it would have been the tactful thing to do, the way I see it.
Pretty sure the mother of the victim is actually printing her own t-shirts and selling them.
I think this wasn't a matter of profiting from his death, but rather that only she can.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's all distasteful, really.
Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon will announce law enforcement plans for the aftermath of the grand jury announcement in the Michael Brown shooting case at a press conference today.
Nixon will discuss plans with the media at 2 p.m. at the Missouri Highway Patrol's area headquarters in Weldon Spring.
The grand jury is considering charges against Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson, who shot Michael Brown, 18, on Aug. 9 in Ferguson. The shooting sparked months of protests and calls for change in government, the criminal justice system and other areas to address long-standing complaints.
St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch said Monday that the grand jury is still working on the case. He repeated that the grand jury would likely complete their work in mid- to late November.
So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
d-usa wrote: So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
I think it's fairly easy to predict that we aren't going beyond a reasonable doubt for murder charges, and anything less than that is going to probably mean riots.
d-usa wrote: So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
That's my perception.
To be honest... it'stoo quiet.
Saw about 3-4 police cars along 270 (and overpasses) on the way home from Heroic Adventures (so, along the Florissant area) tonight at various locations. Seemed a little thick for a random Tuesday night, but several of them had people pulled over, so maybe it's nothing.
d-usa wrote: So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
That makes sense. I didn't realize deliberations were still ongoing. Of course, there may be officials who are aware of the evidence (or lack thereof, as the case may be) and might be able to figure out which outcome is most likely. But I agree that they're probably preparing for anything.
d-usa wrote: So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
That's my perception.
To be honest... it'stoo quiet.
Saw about 3-4 police cars along 270 (and overpasses) on the way home from Heroic Adventures (so, along the Florissant area) tonight at various locations. Seemed a little thick for a random Tuesday night, but several of them had people pulled over, so maybe it's nothing.
Busting folks partying too hard on Veteran's Day. Cops around here always have more presence on holidays where folks may be drinking and driving.
d-usa wrote: So people already know the result of a secret deliberation that is still in progress and people wonder why others are suspicios of the process? I would hope that's not the case.
I would hope that they still don't know what the results are and that they just managed to learn from their clusterfeth of a response and are making sure that they are preparing for all possible outcomes.
At this point knowledge is not relevant. It would be poor oversight to not start preparing for riots either way.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: OR the police are trying to keep prepared no matter what. Man, The Pro-Mike Brown Stuff is getting stupid at my school.
You're in the humanities section of a UC school. Of course it is. Whats funny is that crowd wouldn't be caught dead in East LA because, well you would be dead if you went to East LA.
You're in the humanities section of a UC school. Of course it is. Whats funny is that crowd wouldn't be caught dead in East LA because, well you would be dead if you went to East LA.
It always makes me laugh when I see the hipster abodes in the gentrified parts of Cincinnati, with their tall gates and keycard access only parking.
If you think that the point of something like that is to "make white privileged people feel bad" then you also have the answer for why an exhibit like a "tunnel of oppression" exists.
Of course it also feels like the past month has just consisted of gak-stirring, so I'll just take anything you type with a giant grain of salt.
You should ad the "Want Ads" to the Tunnel of Oppression.
My campus use to have a covered bridge that wnet across a river that bi-sected the campus. Near it was the shoe tree, where you threw people's tennis shoes and a super cool art deco art museum. Inside the covered bridge, University organizations got to decorate a panel. Some were asking for members, others were political statements.
My favorite was....
Meat is murder. Dairy is rape. Free the seed! - University Vegetarians or something.
Michael Brown's family call for peace in Ferguson as grand jury decision nears
The family of Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager fatally shot by a police officer in August, called on police and protesters to act peacefully as an announcement nears of a grand jury decision on whether to charge the officer who killed him.
“The Brown family has a passionate plea this morning to law enforcement and those who support justice for Mike Brown Jr, to allow cooler heads to prevail in times of adversity,” said the family’s attorney Anthony Gray at a news conference on Thursday.
Intense protests rocked Brown’s home of Ferguson, Missouri, in the days following the shooting. Police responded with rubber bullets, armored vehicles and pepper spray, leading to criticism from local leaders and civil rights organizations.
Gray encouraged protesters to remain “peaceful, calm and dignified” now and after the decision on whether to charge Wilson is announced, and encouraged law enforcement agencies to do the same.
“We also feel that it is equally important to implore law enforcement to exercise reasonable restraints when dealing with demonstrators,” said Gray. “There have been too many reports of excessive behavior and agitation by police officers which have resulted in the outbursts of the kind the governor described by otherwise peaceful demonstrators.”
On Tuesday, Missouri governor Jay Nixon said the national guard was on standby to deal with the fallout from the grand jury’s decision. A day earlier, Ferguson mayor James Knowles said authorities would “prepare for the worst”.
“To the law enforcement officers who will be patrolling the streets, we would like to thank you in advance for not having a repeat of horrific encounters that took place in August,” said Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the Brown family.
St Louis County prosecuting attorney Bob McCulloch said he expects a decision to be announced in “mid-to-late November”. Jurors have been hearing evidence for nearly three months. Dr Michael Baden, who conducted a private autopsy on Brown’s body on the behalf of his family, is testifying on Thursday.
Crump said the family and its attorneys did not feel it was “appropriate” to get into the substance of Baden’s testimony. He did say that Baden wanted people to know that he was able to confirm an additional entry wound into Brown’s chest. In his preliminary autopsy, Baden had not been able to determine the shots to the chest whether they were re-entry wounds or entry wounds.
The US Department of Justice and FBI are also investigating the shooting of Brown to determine whether it amounted to a civil rights violation.
That's kind of interesting that they actually talk about "the good people of St. Louis County of all races, colors and creeds." They definitely seem to be trying to go for a slightly softer approach in order to beef up their dwindling membership. Hopefully it doesn't work.
Protestors are making plans to shut down Clayton while they await the grand jury decision in the police shooting of Michael Brown. They want to hurt Clayton economically. The information was released Thursday night at one of their meetings in south St. Louis. Organizers said they’re hoping for hundreds if not thousands of people to show up in Clayton the first workday after the grand jury reaches a decision.
If the decision comes down Friday they plan to turn out in force Monday. They will meet in public green spaces and then they may spread out in small groups possibly taking part in civil disobedience like shutting down roads. There was talk that if they tried to stop trials in courtrooms they could get be put in jail for a longer time than just for blocking traffic.
Don’t Shoot Coalition Co-Chair Michael McPhearson wants people in the St. Louis area to know they are not encouraging violence. McPhearson said, “We want the people to know these meetings are about non- violence direct action. Some of it will be people talking people expressing themselves. There’s nothing we’re doing to try to create violence. We don’t want to diminish tension without there being change.”
Clayton police did not return our call for a comment. A spokesman for St. Louis County Police said they will support Clayton officers in any way that is needed.
Um... shutting down Clayton isn't exactly the smart thing to do...
*shrug*
Besides... I don't thing the protestor will be able to tough it out in the cold.
Er...don't try to mess with the richers. Yamammoto tried that, and they sent an entire squadron of P-38s to conclude conflict resolution Chicago style...
Yeah, generally speaking, Clayton is a well-to-do area, and thanks to the aforementioned public offices there, it's crawling with cops on a good day.
Of course, I understand there to be a lot of legal defense offices there too, so at least the private attorneys wouldn't be far away, you know, if they go that route.
I still say wait the protesters out, winter will deal with them. Also since they standing on the street for 90 days cant imagine they have to much money left. So let the cold deal with them then deal with the case.
Robert McCulloch’s office
St. Louis County Justice Center
Stephanie Karr’s office
Olin Corporation Headquarters
Judge Maura McShane’s courtroom
St. Louis County Police Department
Governor Nixon’s Office (Wainwright Building)
Clayton School District Office
Department of Justice
Dean Plocher’s office
Ronald Brockmeyer’s office
Dan Boyle’s office
Thomas Flach’s office
Regal III Market
Canfield Green Apartments
Ferguson Police Department & Jail
West Florissant Quick Trip
Missouri Botanical Gradens
Powell Symphony Hall
Monsanto Headquarters
Peabody Energy Headquarters
Anheuser-Busch Headquarters
Emerson Electric Headquarters
Steve Stenger’s lawfirm
St. Louis Art Museum
Gateway Arch
Peabody Opera House
Ritz Carlton
Lambert International Airport
Mayor Slay
Boeing
St. Louis City Police Department
St. Louis Galleria
Plaza Frontenac
Six Stars Market
Colonel Jon Belmar
Senator Roy Blunt
Senator Claire McCaskill
St. Louis City Justice Center
St. Ann Police Department & Jail
Clayton City Hall
GCI Security, Inc.
St. Louis County Council
Clayton Police Department & Jail
Ferguson City Hall
Lacy Clay’s Office
Donors
Husch Blackwell LLP
Martin Insurance Group LLC
Stone, Leyton & Gershman
University Square Company
Stone & Alter Real Estate
Carey & Danis LLC
The Law Firm of Thomas C Antoniou LLC
Hammond & Shinners Law Firm
Collinsville Acquisitions Inc
Thompson Coburn
Commercial Bank
Sanctuaries
Greater St. Mark Family Church
Veterans for Peace Office
St. John’s Episcopal Church
Hospitals
St. Louis University Hospital
SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center
SSM St. Mary’s Health Center
Barnes Jewish Hospital
St. Alexius Hospital
Kindred Hospital
Southwest Medical Center
Anyone blocking traffic to a hospital deserves to be arrested and forgotten in some dark hell-hole. I don't give a crap what happened, that can literally mean the difference between life and death for some person who has nothing to do with the target of your anger.
streamdragon wrote: Anyone blocking traffic to a hospital deserves to be arrested and forgotten in some dark hell-hole. I don't give a crap what happened, that can literally mean the difference between life and death for some person who has nothing to do with the target of your anger.
Frell those people. Frell them.
I must have missed the section where "this area is where we protest" means "this is where we are going to block traffic and prevent access".
streamdragon wrote: Anyone blocking traffic to a hospital deserves to be arrested and forgotten in some dark hell-hole. I don't give a crap what happened, that can literally mean the difference between life and death for some person who has nothing to do with the target of your anger.
Frell those people. Frell them.
I must have missed the section where "this area is where we protest" means "this is where we are going to block traffic and prevent access".
They're *talking* about doing just that.
<shrug>
Honestly, I seriously doubt it'll get that far. It's too fething cold man!
Robert McCulloch’s office
St. Louis County Justice Center
Stephanie Karr’s office
Olin Corporation Headquarters
Judge Maura McShane’s courtroom
St. Louis County Police Department
Governor Nixon’s Office (Wainwright Building)
Clayton School District Office
Department of Justice
Dean Plocher’s office
Ronald Brockmeyer’s office
Dan Boyle’s office
Thomas Flach’s office
Regal III Market
Canfield Green Apartments
Ferguson Police Department & Jail
West Florissant Quick Trip
Missouri Botanical Gradens
Powell Symphony Hall
Monsanto Headquarters
Peabody Energy Headquarters
Anheuser-Busch Headquarters
Emerson Electric Headquarters
Steve Stenger’s lawfirm
St. Louis Art Museum
Gateway Arch
Peabody Opera House
Ritz Carlton
Lambert International Airport
Mayor Slay
Boeing
St. Louis City Police Department
St. Louis Galleria
Plaza Frontenac
Six Stars Market
Colonel Jon Belmar
Senator Roy Blunt
Senator Claire McCaskill
St. Louis City Justice Center
St. Ann Police Department & Jail
Clayton City Hall
GCI Security, Inc.
St. Louis County Council
Clayton Police Department & Jail
Ferguson City Hall
Lacy Clay’s Office
Donors
Husch Blackwell LLP
Martin Insurance Group LLC
Stone, Leyton & Gershman
University Square Company
Stone & Alter Real Estate
Carey & Danis LLC
The Law Firm of Thomas C Antoniou LLC
Hammond & Shinners Law Firm
Collinsville Acquisitions Inc
Thompson Coburn
Commercial Bank
Sanctuaries
Greater St. Mark Family Church
Veterans for Peace Office
St. John’s Episcopal Church
Hospitals
St. Louis University Hospital
SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center
SSM St. Mary’s Health Center
Barnes Jewish Hospital
St. Alexius Hospital
Kindred Hospital
Southwest Medical Center
So pretty much all of St. Louis except for the zoo.
streamdragon wrote: Anyone blocking traffic to a hospital deserves to be arrested and forgotten in some dark hell-hole. I don't give a crap what happened, that can literally mean the difference between life and death for some person who has nothing to do with the target of your anger.
Frell those people. Frell them.
Whats with the law firms and churches? Is Olin Corp there? Can I get some cheap ammo at the Olin Corp headquarters?
Block a church and the old ladies will run you over and not realize you're there. I know. I KNOW!
streamdragon wrote: Anyone blocking traffic to a hospital deserves to be arrested and forgotten in some dark hell-hole. I don't give a crap what happened, that can literally mean the difference between life and death for some person who has nothing to do with the target of your anger.
Frell those people. Frell them.
I must have missed the section where "this area is where we protest" means "this is where we are going to block traffic and prevent access".
They're *talking* about doing just that.
<shrug>
Honestly, I seriously doubt it'll get that far. It's too fething cold man!
Dude they're talking about blocking Anheiser Busch. If they want to literally be torn apart by rednecks and football fans, thats an excellent way to do it.
d-usa wrote:I must have missed the section where "this area is where we protest" means "this is where we are going to block traffic and prevent access".
Protestors are making plans to shut down Clayton while they await the grand jury decision in the police shooting of Michael Brown. They want to hurt Clayton economically. The information was released Thursday night at one of their meetings in south St. Louis. Organizers said they’re hoping for hundreds if not thousands of people to show up in Clayton the first workday after the grand jury reaches a decision.
If the decision comes down Friday they plan to turn out in force Monday. They will meet in public green spaces and then they may spread out in small groups possibly taking part in civil disobedience like shutting down roads. There was talk that if they tried to stop trials in courtrooms they could get be put in jail for a longer time than just for blocking traffic.
Below is the published list of potential St. Louis area targets.
Hospitals St. Louis University Hospital
SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center
SSM St. Mary’s Health Center
Barnes Jewish Hospital
St. Alexius Hospital
Kindred Hospital
Southwest Medical Center
d-usa wrote:I must have missed the section where "this area is where we protest" means "this is where we are going to block traffic and prevent access".
Protestors are making plans to shut down Clayton while they await the grand jury decision in the police shooting of Michael Brown. They want to hurt Clayton economically. The information was released Thursday night at one of their meetings in south St. Louis. Organizers said they’re hoping for hundreds if not thousands of people to show up in Clayton the first workday after the grand jury reaches a decision.
If the decision comes down Friday they plan to turn out in force Monday. They will meet in public green spaces and then they may spread out in small groups possibly taking part in civil disobedience like shutting down roads. There was talk that if they tried to stop trials in courtrooms they could get be put in jail for a longer time than just for blocking traffic.
Below is the published list of potential St. Louis area targets.
Hospitals St. Louis University Hospital
SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center
SSM St. Mary’s Health Center
Barnes Jewish Hospital
St. Alexius Hospital
Kindred Hospital
Southwest Medical Center
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon has declared a state of emergency and activated the National Guard in advance of a grand jury decision about whether a white police officer will be charged in the fatal shooting of a black 18-year-old in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson.
Nixon said Monday that the National Guard would assist state and local police as needed, in case there is civil unrest when the grand jury's decision is announced.
There was no indication an announcement is imminent. There is no specific date for a decision to be revealed about whether Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson should face charges for shooting Michael Brown on Aug. 9. The St. Louis County prosecutor has said he expects the grand jury to reach a decision in mid-to-late November.
Perfect!
Now all you have to do is apull a Walking Dead. Dress up some fake Klansmen to lead the Herd off, preferably in a direction towards Chicago, or New Mexico.
Frazzled wrote: Perfect!
Now all you have to do is apull a Walking Dead. Dress up some fake Klansmen to lead the Herd off, preferably in a direction towards Chicago, or New Mexico.
I've heard it explained that protests are not directed necessarily always at the parties responsible, but toward other places at the same time to get a sense of "everyone protesting everywhere". It also causes more harm economically which puts more pressure on the people being protested against to try to better contain it. I'd think it would also increase the amount of "the sky is falling" in the press. Finally, I'm sure there's some (arguably clever) amount of putting logistic pressure on the police to try to monitor and contain that many discrete hot spots.
My old apartment was about four blocks away from the brewery. I could not have timed the move better. I have friends that work at Boeing though. I hope that the military industrial complex has as good of security as I stereotype them as having.
“Personally, I think we DONT need to be on West Florissant. I wanna advocate that we go on South Florissant because the people on South Florissant don’t look like me. The people on West Florissant look like me and they’re with it. So… I really don’t have anything to protest on West Florissant. So if I’m in the area I’m going to Ferguson Police Department.”
daedalus wrote: Hey Whembly, where exactly did you get that list and that link sourced from? I looked on the Facebook page but didn't actually see it there.
Not disputing it, but I have a friend who's potentially impacted by it and he's very interested about the source post for his own benefit.
From my twittah feed... lemme see if I can find it.
daedalus wrote: Hey Whembly, where exactly did you get that list and that link sourced from? I looked on the Facebook page but didn't actually see it there.
Not disputing it, but I have a friend who's potentially impacted by it and he's very interested about the source post for his own benefit.
From my twittah feed... lemme see if I can find it.
It was deleted.
But the google site is still active:https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zUZF2TD57qeo.kkuz--qwlUS8
I wonder if I can backtrace it to see who created it... (hmmmm)
Just goes to show, misinformation is going to be rampant.
daedalus wrote: Interesting. I guess that doesn't really give us a concrete confirmation. We'll take it with a grain of salt, and thanks for the effort.
Yeah, it's all over the various blogosphere, but there doesn't appear to be a *source* for it other than that google page.
I'm going to try to "source" that google page...
EDIT: I actually sent google a notice that this map site can be incindiary.
Looks like that 4chan guy went to work and hijacked some KKK twitter feeds, then turned around and posted membership info. If those are true then there are some cops who appear to be Klan members who might have some explaining to do.
I'm always suspect of vigilante actions like that since innocent people can easily get caught up in this mess. But man, feth the Klan...
“Personally, I think we DONT need to be on West Florissant. I wanna advocate that we go on South Florissant because the people on South Florissant don’t look like me. The people on West Florissant look like me and they’re with it. So… I really don’t have anything to protest on West Florissant. So if I’m in the area I’m going to Ferguson Police Department.”
If loot'n spread into the neighborhoods... um...
Remember kids, if they don't look like you, they must not agree with you
“Personally, I think we DONT need to be on West Florissant. I wanna advocate that we go on South Florissant because the people on South Florissant don’t look like me. The people on West Florissant look like me and they’re with it. So… I really don’t have anything to protest on West Florissant. So if I’m in the area I’m going to Ferguson Police Department.”
If loot'n spread into the neighborhoods... um...
Well you have two options:
1. Wear a batman mask and cape. You'll know what to do.
2. Go with the flow. Identify some nearby things you need at local stores but were just too pricey. Again you'll know what to do. Free stuff!
I hope this doesn't end up as bad as I'm envisioning it. I'm not holding out a ton of hope, but having seen the incredibly bad riots in Cincinnati in 2001 first hand, I don't wish that upon another city at all.
cincydooley wrote: I hope this doesn't end up as bad as I'm envisioning it. I'm not holding out a ton of hope, but having seen the incredibly bad riots in Cincinnati in 2001 first hand, I don't wish that upon another city at all.
Big difference between the crowds the gak stirrers can mobilize in April vs late November.
cincydooley wrote: I hope this doesn't end up as bad as I'm envisioning it. I'm not holding out a ton of hope, but having seen the incredibly bad riots in Cincinnati in 2001 first hand, I don't wish that upon another city at all.
Big difference between the crowds the gak stirrers can mobilize in April vs late November.
Oh absolutely.
But, and this is from a purely anecdotal standpoint, the outright anger surrounding Ferguson seems a TON higher than in 2001 here. And they've had a lot longer to stew and simmer that rage. The Cincy Riots were really more akin to the first Ferguson riots, in that they happened very closely to the actual event.
The future impact to the community at large is another concern. It took nearly 10 years for anyone to even try and to something with OTR and the other areas of Cincinnati that were the sites of the riots. OTR, to use a super nerdy analogy, was effectively Peach Trees from Dredd.
In regard to Ferguson, I'm all on board with the "Line up the fire trucks and hose them down" approach.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I say we all sabotage them from the inside, pretend to be on their side. Then set ff pepper gas bombs in the middle of the crowds.
Sounds like a good way to get yourself stabbed and or beaten.
Having said that, if you buy standard smoke grenades, and peel off the little circle of tape on the bottom, you can pour in tabasco sauce (then re-tape the hole) and get a decent pepper gas type effect when you let the handle fly.
Yeah, those prices are appalling, but you are getting the blasting cap and fuse...
There are several heavy smoke producing 'fireworks' class smoke bombs too, but I wouldn't know how easy they are or are not to modify to other purposes.
But my cav scouts LOVED to make pepper gas grenades from the issue ones.
daedalus wrote: Hey Whembly, where exactly did you get that list and that link sourced from? I looked on the Facebook page but didn't actually see it there.
Not disputing it, but I have a friend who's potentially impacted by it and he's very interested about the source post for his own benefit.
No Justice, No Peace! #Ferguson Protest Leader Has Car Stolen During “Please don't bypass the language filter like this. reds8n the Police” Rally
Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, November 18, 2014, 9:17 AM No Justice, No Peace!
Elizabeth Vega is one of the Ferguson protest leaders. She protested at sports venues and attempted a banner drop. She co-led the St Louis Symphony interruption, was arrested at the pumpkin smashing, yelled at the St Louis Post Dispatch protest, and helped block traffic with her freakshow in Clayton yesterday.
While yelling “Feth the Police!” apparently her car got stolen.
Do you think she’ll file a police report requesting they help her now?
CptJake wrote: Having said that, if you buy standard smoke grenades, and peel off the little circle of tape on the bottom, you can pour in tabasco sauce (then re-tape the hole) and get a decent pepper gas type effect when you let the handle fly.
Or so I've heard.
When I was in college we decided it'd be great to secretly replace the tobacco in a friends cigarette with crushed red pepper flakes and see what happened when he smoked it. It was a really, really bad idea as the smoke was really acrid and stinging, he turned a distinct shade of red, then purple as his throat was so irritated that it swelled shut and he couldn't breathe. We had to call and ambulance and rush him to the hospital so they could get him breathing again. He had to have a pipe inserted in his throat and his voice was completely messed up for like a month. We all felt like crap as we didn't expect that to happen and only wanted to mess with him a bit not land him in the ER.
Even the second hand smoke from that was eye watering and pretty nasty stuff to deal with, didn't land us in the ER but it was certainly eye burning and can say from first hand experience that smoke from burning pepper flakes will seriously mess people up as bad or worse then CS gas.
And keep in mind ya'll that what you THINK is happening is only like 5% true in the real world.
We've had massive efforts to clean up the area by local Churchs and Fraternity Greek group... but, scant coverage from the media as it doesn't fit their narratives.
We've had massive efforts to clean up the area by local Churchs and Fraternity Greek group... but, scant coverage from the media as it doesn't fit their narratives.
Oooohhh... Are things evolving/devolving into a "Gangs of New York" situation?? the Church "gang" and the "Frathouse Greek" gangs going toe to toe with whatever the St. Louis version of the Dead Rabbits and Natives are?
We've had massive efforts to clean up the area by local Churchs and Fraternity Greek group... but, scant coverage from the media as it doesn't fit their narratives.
Oooohhh... Are things evolving/devolving into a "Gangs of New York" situation?? the Church "gang" and the "Frathouse Greek" gangs going toe to toe with whatever the St. Louis version of the Dead Rabbits and Natives are?
We've had massive efforts to clean up the area by local Churchs and Fraternity Greek group... but, scant coverage from the media as it doesn't fit their narratives.
Oooohhh... Are things evolving/devolving into a "Gangs of New York" situation?? the Church "gang" and the "Frathouse Greek" gangs going toe to toe with whatever the St. Louis version of the Dead Rabbits and Natives are?
But... no.
Everyone thinks it's going to be a warzone here... but, I've got news for you: We're in the mid-west and the natives are the ones who's armed and dangerous.
Yeah,neighborhoods make poor targets for this type of action for a variety of reasons. Not saying these folks won't do it, but it would surprise me if they did do it to any real extent.
I'm not knocking the message, but seriously, they should have worked with him more to allow him to say that message in a more natural/conversational way
His son is dead, he is waiting to find out the fate of the guy who shot him (which also means having to wait on finding out how that decision will reflect on his son), his dead son is at the center of one of the biggest race-related events in recent history.
I don't think I will knock him for appearing awkward.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Officer Wilson in talks about possibly resigning.
My imaginary son would totally riot. In fact, he'd to it to the song "Let's Start a Riot" cause he'd be a trend setter
I keep checking in here wondering when the Grand Jury is gonna come up. Damn. How many days have they been in there? Three or four now? Or am I just super late to that party XD
It is a kind of complicated case. Either way, people are going to be complaining. I wouldn't mind seeing this case tried, just because the long jury process usually takes months for a case like this, and things will have settled down by the time a verdict is found.
It's a tough line for the police administration to walk---keeping everyone safe while also allowing freedom of assembly. They really need to get the streets under control though, there has been several near accidents (and obviously some real accidents).
Damned ignorant on the part of the protestors. I wonder if the other driver knew there was an accident or if he was busy checking to see if other people were going to jump out in front of him.
Wanting to get the hell out of there was probably running strongly through the other drivers mind because of all the people appearing on the street. . A seeming mob in an area where there is a real threat of rioting and violence is not an inducement to want to stick around, whatever circumstance led the person to drive through there.
Protesters: Feth the police! We're standing in the streets to protest the fething police!
Accident happens: bam!
Protesters: Oh damn! Hey somebody call the police!
I see no irony in an expectation of the police maintaining order on the road during a traffic accident and not shooting unarmed black youths. YMMV.
I see irony in the fact that the police were not maintaining order by clearing the protestors ignorant arses off the road and preventing the situation that happened. What would the story have been if the motorist or someone else had been seriously injured or killed, or someone in a dire circumstance had been prevented from getting to a hospital?
These people created a lot of variables that put themselves and others at risk, so they have no right to act surprised and angered when something like this happened.
Protesters: Feth the police! We're standing in the streets to protest the fething police!
Accident happens: bam!
Protesters: Oh damn! Hey somebody call the police!
I see no irony in an expectation of the police maintaining order on the road during a traffic accident and not shooting unarmed black youths. YMMV.
I think the irony is in the fact that if the police had been maintaining order on the road, the protestors would have been removed/dispersed before an accident requiring the police could have occurred. The protestors do not want nor expect the police to maintain order, until it benefits the protestors...
Protesters: Feth the police! We're standing in the streets to protest the fething police!
Accident happens: bam!
Protesters: Oh damn! Hey somebody call the police!
I see no irony in an expectation of the police maintaining order on the road during a traffic accident and not shooting unarmed black youths. YMMV.
I see irony in the fact that the police were not maintaining order by clearing the protestors ignorant arses off the road and preventing the situation that happened. What would the story have been if the motorist or someone else had been seriously injured or killed, or someone in a dire circumstance had been prevented from getting to a hospital?
These people created a lot of variables that put themselves and others at risk, so they have no right to act surprised and angered when something like this happened.
Just imagine the story if the driver ran over the protesters.
Protesters: Feth the police! We're standing in the streets to protest the fething police!
Accident happens: bam!
Protesters: Oh damn! Hey somebody call the police!
I see no irony in an expectation of the police maintaining order on the road during a traffic accident and not shooting unarmed black youths. YMMV.
I see irony in the fact that the police were not maintaining order by clearing the protestors ignorant arses off the road and preventing the situation that happened. What would the story have been if the motorist or someone else had been seriously injured or killed, or someone in a dire circumstance had been prevented from getting to a hospital?
These people created a lot of variables that put themselves and others at risk, so they have no right to act surprised and angered when something like this happened.
Just imagine the story if the driver ran over the protesters.
Exactly. I would imagine the protestor would be lionized as a champion of civil rights and the driver villified.
Anyone else think the court is just teasing us now?
"Its this weekend"
"No its this week"
"Sorry, this weekend for SURE"
Stop it and just let us get an excuse to riot
hotsauceman1 wrote: Anyone else think the court is just teasing us now?
"Its this weekend"
"No its this week"
"Sorry, this weekend for SURE"
Stop it and just let us get an excuse to riot
Well, this wouldn't really be an issue if the news would stop trying to report the news before the news actually happens.
Telling you guys like i did on like page 5 they will wait for heavy snow fall so no one can protest cause they will freeze their...parts off. By the time summer hits everyone would cool down some.
Last year It was I think -46.... god it sucked lol
hotsauceman1 wrote: Anyone else think the court is just teasing us now?
"Its this weekend"
"No its this week"
"Sorry, this weekend for SURE"
Stop it and just let us get an excuse to riot
Well, this wouldn't really be an issue if the news would stop trying to report the news before the news actually happens.
It reminds me of the old SNL skits that made fun of the news for weeks on end reporting that Spain's Franco was still alive.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Anyone else think the court is just teasing us now?
"Its this weekend"
"No its this week"
"Sorry, this weekend for SURE"
Stop it and just let us get an excuse to riot
Well, this wouldn't really be an issue if the news would stop trying to report the news before the news actually happens.
I think they are going to Push the decision to the week after black Friday, that way Black Friday shoppers will shop and PAY for stuff, instead of looting it for free.
Police: Woman allegedly kills herself with gun bought to prepare for Ferguson unrest
By CNN Justice Reporter Evan Perez and Producer Shimon Prokupecz
updated 6:58 PM EST, Sun November 23, 2014
St. Louis (CNN) -- A woman appears to have accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with a gun bought to prepare for possible Ferguson-related unrest, according to sources briefed on the police investigation.
The shooting occurred Friday night in downtown St. Louis, the city's Metropolitan Police Department said, in an area dominated by vacant lots beside a football stadium.
The female victim, identified in a police report as Becca Campbell, 26, was a passenger in a car involved in an auto accident. Her 33-year-old boyfriend was driving, the sources told CNN.
The boyfriend, who wasn't identified, told police that the couple had bought a gun because of fears of unrest related to the pending grand jury decision on the shooting of Michael Brown, the sources said.
He told investigators that as they drove late Friday night, the victim waved a gun, jokingly saying the couple were ready for Ferguson, the sources said.
He ducked to get out of the way of the gun and accidentally rear-ended another car. He said the accident caused the gun to go off and she was struck by a bullet in the head, the sources said.
The victim was rushed to a hospital but died.
The investigation is continuing because police want to be sure the story as told by the boyfriend is correct, the sources said. Police are awaiting gun trace results, as part of the ongoing investigation.
Note the editing error, CNN has once again used the word "accidental" when they should have used "negligent".
He told investigators that as they drove late Friday night, the victim waved a gun, jokingly saying the couple were ready for Ferguson, the sources said.
He ducked to get out of the way of the gun and accidentally rear-ended another car. He said the accident caused the gun to go off and she was struck by a bullet in the head, the sources said.
Oh yeah. They sound really worried. fething idiots XD
There were "reports" that Wilson is in the process of negotiating over his resignation. It's publically being denied because there was a fear that knowledge of such negotiations would influence the Grand Jury... so in other words, they have a reason to lie.
So let’s tease this out a little bit. Why would they have to negotiate a resignation?
Well, assuming his employment contract is the standard union type, I'm willing to bet he cannot be fired, except for cause. And I bet “innocently being a major distraction” is not cause, or at least there is enough doubt on this point to make the city’s lawyers nervous. So they are negotiating a buyout.
And that only makes sense if the city knows he's not going to be indicted. If he is, I am willing to bet they can at least suspend him until the trial and then fire him for cause if convicted.
This suggests there isn’t going to be a trial.
Stay tuned!
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: CNN has...
Just in: Grand jury decision expected today in #Ferguson case, US and local law-enforcement sources tell CNN — http://t.co/AtIV22CsGW
There were "reports" that Wilson is in the process of negotiating over his resignation. It's publically being denied because there was a fear that knowledge of such negotiations would influence the Grand Jury... so in other words, they have a reason to lie.
So let’s tease this out a little bit. Why would they have to negotiate a resignation?
Well, assuming his employment contract is the standard union type, I'm willing to bet he cannot be fired, except for cause. And I bet “innocently being a major distraction” is not cause, or at least there is enough doubt on this point to make the city’s lawyers nervous. So they are negotiating a buyout.
I could also see him "negotiating" a retirement pension. I mean, how long did he serve? How long until his retirement time, assuming they run similarly to the Military?? (the whole 20 years = retirement benefits thing).
I dunno, I'm really just spitballing that one, I doubt they'd be negotiating a resignation over the charges though, it's just that, I think it would be VERY dangerous to put him back on the "beat" after this.
USA TODAY ✔ @USATODAY
Follow
#BREAKING Ferguson cop who shot Michael Brown won’t be charged; according to Michael Brown's family http://usat.ly/1zRDCJS 7:57 PM - 24 Nov 2014
How many volatile, willing-to-riot-at-anything people does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
They don't. They just smash the lightbulb and riot about how there's no more light.
Wishing luck to all the folks in the area. Keep your landmines and automated tur- I mean, doors shut and windows locked!
Hello mods, don't disappear my post please.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Honest question, can he be indicted again? Or does double jeopardy apply?
Only if there's new evidence, yes you can.
I think that technically grand jury procedings are not affected by double jeopardy restrictions, so they could turn right around and do another one, and then another one, until (if every) they go to trial. Once a trial happened then double jeopardy kicks in.
Now that is not really something that happens (which is a good thing) unless they come up with new evidence, like you said. Considering how much evidence was poured into this case I don't think that anybody could find new evidence anywhere. It sounds like they were thorough, and if I remember right they were going to release the evidence at some point.
Now the federal government could still go after civil rights charges, but I think that everybody at the federal level has downplayed that possibility since the beginning.
Looks like cops are popping LOTS of tear gas and bean bags, breaking up the crowds of hooligans. Some hooligans breaking into stores and stealing things.
Whembly have you procured a new TV yet? COme on when you get lemons make lemonade! Get me a new Xbox if you can.
Per CNN some hooligans are trading fire with the cops. A police car is burning.
Frazzled wrote: Looks like cops are popping LOTS of tear gas and bean bags, breaking up the crowds of hooligans. Some hooligans breaking into stores and stealing things.
Whembly have you procured a new TV yet? COme on when you get lemons make lemonade! Get me a new Xbox if you can.
No no Fraz, you are getting things mixed up. Those are just the people showing up early EARLY Black Friday sales.
Jessica Leitch @jessleitch · 5m 5 minutes ago
protesters just shut down highway 44 at grand.
Ugh...
donkey-caves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fergayson @GayPatriot 48s48 seconds ago
"My government is oppressive" ~ 20 year old white girl taking selfie in Times Square after black President speaks.
Lots of cop cars rolled, burnt and bricked. Police station was bricked, police were forced to pull back to secondary defense locations. Multiple fires, store being broken into. Lots of shots being fired, at least one person down and police are in route.
Via police scanner (radio).
On another note national guard are there and about to hit the streets in a few.
Stay safe all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Crowds in the 25-30s up to 200 armed with bricks and guns. People on roofs with molotovs burning buildings. Cops under heavy fire. An armed vehicle was broken into a bit ago and a rifle was stolen, (most likely full auto, my speculation).
Dammit people! These rioters are worse than the problem that started it!
You know, for the most part I've been pretty ambivalent about all this, definitely leaned towards the pro-Wilson side, but I could definitely sympathize and empathize with the black community (and associated non-minority SJWs) and understand their perspective... but given the events of the past few days, whatever sympathy and empathy I had are gone.
Side note "Justice for Mike Brown" is not the same thing as "Justice". Saying "Justice for Mike Brown" means you've already picked a side and its the only outcome you'll accept regardless of whether or not its the correct outcome. I.E. - you're out for blood and want vengeance and there is literally nothing that can be done to convince you otherwise. Just some food for thought, as I've seen lots of people claiming 'justice has failed' with shirts or banners that read "Justice for Mike Brown".
Crowds in the 25-30s up to 200 armed with bricks and guns. People on roofs with molotovs burning buildings. Cops under heavy fire. An armed vehicle was broken into a bit ago and a rifle was stolen, (most likely full auto, my speculation).!
Michael Calhoun @michaelcalhoun · 8m 8 minutes ago
NOW: Looting at Toys R Us on W Florissant. Police have suspects laying on the ground. #Ferguson @kmoxnews
whembly wrote: Michael Calhoun @michaelcalhoun · 8m 8 minutes ago
NOW: Looting at Toys R Us on W Florissant. Police have suspects laying on the ground. #Ferguson @kmoxnews
wonder how many more people will end up shot over this >.>
the police got chased away from the toys are us awhile ago. Now all police have been pulled from the area. They are leaving that part of town to the rioters.
Small groups of protestors now forming in other areas of the country including some in front of the White House.
Ruberu wrote: the police got chased away from the toys are us awhile ago. Now all police have been pulled from the area. They are leaving that part of town to the rioters.
Small groups of protestors now forming in other areas of the country including some in front of the White House.
If the store owners were like the Koreans in the LA riots, the looters wouldn't have dared come near.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From what I can find it seems the protests aren't as bad as people expected. Ferguson is easily the worst off of any area in the country, protests in other cities are relatively peaceful, and shockingly small (50-200 people average), even then violence in Ferguson is relatively contained to a small area.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From what I can find it seems the protests aren't as bad as people expected. Ferguson is easily the worst off of any area in the country, protests in other cities are relatively peaceful, and shockingly small (50-200 people average), even then violence in Ferguson is relatively contained to a small area.
The Koreans were armed to the teeth and had built barricades which they manned. Rioters didn't dare mess with their buisnesses. Pretty much anyone else depending on the cops were told they were on their own and had their business looted and burned.
ImAGeek wrote: I think people need to understand why people are protesting. A young black man was shot 6 times and killed for allegedly robbing a shop. Eyewitnesses have said he had his hands up and was surrendering, and there's also evidence that he didn't rob the shop at all. The White man who shot him hasn't even been put on trial. Yet there was a guy who went into a cinema and shot and killed 12 people, who was arrested peacefully. Guess what, he was white.
A 12 year old black boy has been shot and killed for playing with a freaking BB gun. I'm pretty sure he was in an open carry state.
If you aren't angry, you haven't been paying attention.
The riots started out as peaceful protests too, btw. Before police and SWAT came en force with their assault rifles and tear gas. Where was that when Mike Browns memorial was set on fire and pissed on.
I am disgusted.
That's an interesting take away from this. I'm totally fine with protesting whatever you want, although I think that maybe waiting a day so as you can't as easily be taken advantage of by outside instigators and/or random looters might be a good call. And you really highlight the core issue here.... do what the police say and you probably won't get shot. Walk out of a theater after killing a bunch of people and do what the cops say... you don't get shot out of hand. I don't think it was because Holmes was white, just like I don't think either of the other two were shot for being black. If Mike Brown had just got onto the sidewalk when told, he might still be alive. Certainly if that kid had put his hands in the air when ordered to at gunpoint instead of going for his 'toy' gun he'd still be alive.
Maybe we need a PSA or something, because people are just dumb when it comes to the cops.
As far as tonight - Twitter really didn't disappoint with the level of crazy, looters ought to be shot, and if people were actually taking pot shots at fire fighters....I have no words.
ImAGeek wrote: I think people need to understand why people are protesting. A young black man was shot 6 times and killed for allegedly robbing a shop. Eyewitnesses have said he had his hands up and was surrendering, and there's also evidence that he didn't rob the shop at all. The White man who shot him hasn't even been put on trial. Yet there was a guy who went into a cinema and shot and killed 12 people, who was arrested peacefully. Guess what, he was white.
A 12 year old black boy has been shot and killed for playing with a freaking BB gun. I'm pretty sure he was in an open carry state.
If you aren't angry, you haven't been paying attention.
The riots started out as peaceful protests too, btw. Before police and SWAT came en force with their assault rifles and tear gas. Where was that when Mike Browns memorial was set on fire and pissed on.
I am disgusted.
Lets take this down one by one.
There seems to be this straw man circulating that anyone who isn't outraged is some how ignorant to why there are riots and protests. That those who sought true justice are some racist hate mongers who hate black people and are over privileged blah blah blah. That is not the case. We understand why people are upset, I am upset someone died and it sucks, but its not worth destroying the community over,
Coroner proved the GSR on his hands, and the graze wounds he took are similar to wounds one would attain when trying to wrestle a gun away, robbery or not You don't get to do that and not be perceived as an immediate and deadly threat. Eyewitnesses are wrong all the time, its called flashbulb memory. Its a traumatic experience and its being blown up by media who knows what they really saw and what they think they saw?
You compare this one on one incident between a police officer and someone who attempted to steal his firearm to a mass shooting from an unstable psychopath just for gaks and giggles.....im not sure you know what it is you are doing here. The point you attempted to make here failed, and im unsure what even you hoped to gain by bringing this up.
As for the kid, its very unfortunate that a child was shot. However, open carry states don't allow you to handle your firearm out in public, wave it around willy nilly and endanger people. They just allow you to wear a fire arm on your person without concealing it. That BB gun had no orange tip, it looked real and while the officer may have overacted he acted in the way his training taught him.
I don't get angry when a marine or soldier shoot a kid who raises what looks like a gun that's what they are trained to do, and if anything the reaction tonight proves that the community is capable of anything and its sad to see that officers are now reacting this way to kids but getting angry only justifies their actions further.
LASTLY Im not sure where the information you have came from, parts of the protests may have started peacefully, but no they didn't all. and the police certainly didn't attack and provoke the early riots that's just foolish, look at the videos, the twitters those people were ready to riot one way or another.
Okay. It appears I was wrong on some points, so I do apologise, I did speak in haste. And not being from America, and not having working TV at the moment, all my info was from the Internet so that probably was less impartial than I realised.
That'll teach me to post when angry about social issues I don't know much about! Who knew...
ImAGeek wrote: Okay. It appears I was wrong on some points, so I do apologise, I did speak in haste. And not being from America, and not having working TV at the moment, all my info was from the Internet so that probably was less impartial than I realised.
That'll teach me to post when angry about social issues I don't know much about! Who knew...
I also apologize for becoming so hostile so quickly, it has been a long day spent battling for due process and justice to be recognized as legitimate not just hate.
It seems like deciding to announce this thing at 8pm (which ended up even later of course) was just another example of piss-poor planing and decision making by the people in charge around there.
Ruberu wrote: the police got chased away from the toys are us awhile ago. Now all police have been pulled from the area. They are leaving that part of town to the rioters.
Small groups of protestors now forming in other areas of the country including some in front of the White House.
And y'know, feth people's right to bear arms and defend themselves because the police will save you.
ImAGeek wrote: I think people need to understand why people are protesting. A young black man was shot 6 times and killed for allegedly robbing a shop. Eyewitnesses have said he had his hands up and was surrendering, and there's also evidence that he didn't rob the shop at all. The White man who shot him hasn't even been put on trial. Yet there was a guy who went into a cinema and shot and killed 12 people, who was arrested peacefully. Guess what, he was white.
A 12 year old black boy has been shot and killed for playing with a freaking BB gun. I'm pretty sure he was in an open carry state.
If you aren't angry, you haven't been paying attention.
The riots started out as peaceful protests too, btw. Before police and SWAT came en force with their assault rifles and tear gas. Where was that when Mike Browns memorial was set on fire and pissed on.
I am disgusted.
You should be. Your opinion is full of nonsense.
I saw people flipping a car before anything started.
ImAGeek wrote: Okay. It appears I was wrong on some points, so I do apologise, I did speak in haste. And not being from America, and not having working TV at the moment, all my info was from the Internet so that probably was less impartial than I realised.
That'll teach me to post when angry about social issues I don't know much about! Who knew...
Good for you. It isn't often on the internet people admit they spoke hastily. It's refreshing to read your post.
Your initial reaction is a good example of why these people are on the streets though. The media shows us slanted information and we get riled up and nothing said afterwards will change our minds. People literally think Wilson just rolled up and shot Brown. Which shows the depth of ignorance and mistrust in the community. gaks do dumb things and they get shot. There's no conspiracy.
d-usa wrote: It seems like deciding to announce this thing at 8pm (which ended up even later of course) was just another example of piss-poor planing and decision making by the people in charge around there.
I'm not sure what the 'right' time to release the info would have been. You didn't want looting/rioting to kick off with folks stuck at work or on their commute home, so waiting until after all that makes sense from that perspective. Looting and burning an unoccupied store is better than hurting innocent folks who happened to be in there working or shopping. Blocking off roads and highways after end of day rush hour causes a lot less harm than doing so when the streets are full of folks just wanting to get home.
I do wonder, though, if the sides had been flipped and Mike Brown was accused of shooting the cop, would Mike Brown have been asked to testify in front of the Grand Jury and would the DA present all evidence and not just evidence that looks worse for Mike?
weather these next few weeks... so, I'm apprehensive to what's coming next.
