Goal

The goal here is to write up a 'Dakka Dakka Ork Takktica' that is as well done and useful as the "Carnifex Tactica" that Yakface wrote up when the Nid Codex came out.

I'm not pretentious enough to think I can do this alone; I want to work with everyone to put together something that will be useful and something that people will refer to when searching for Ork advice. Since Dakka has probably the best user base of competitive, competent players, I'd like anyone interested to tear up anything I write if you see a mistake.

Hopefully we can work together to come up with something useful for people looking to start one of the most fun armies in 40k.

Tactica Organization


Unit Evaluation

What I'm going to attempt to do is go through each unit in the new Ork Codex and evaluate its overall level of utility (Bad, Semi-Competitive, and Competitive). Then we will go into various configuration options (if any) and identify optimal ones, fun alternatives, and what to avoid.



General Advice

I would like to come up with some general advice that will be useful to Ork players. One of the biggest topics here will be proper application of the 'Waaaggh' move. Other areas can include identifying proper Ork arch types (shooty horde, Kult of Speed, etc) and the unit composition that makes up those choices. Anything else useful that should be communicated to wanna-be Warbosses can go here.


If you're going to post something, please preface it with which section you're writing for.

Goal
The goal here is to write up a 'Dakka Dakka Ork Takktica' that is as well done and useful as the Carnifex Tactica that Yakface wrote up when the Nid Codex came out.

I'm not pretentious enough to think I can do this alone; I want to work with everyone to put together something that will be useful and something that people will refer to when searching for Ork advice. Since Dakka has probably the best user base of competitive, competent players, I'd like anyone interested to tear up anything I write if you see a mistake.

Hopefully we can work together to come up with something useful for people looking to start one of the most fun armies in 40k.


Tactica Organization

Unit Evaluation

What I'm going to attempt to do is go through each unit in the new Ork Codex and evaluate its overall level of Utility (Bad, Semi-Competitive, and Competitive). Then we will go into various configuration options (if any) and identify optimal ones, fun alternatives, and what to avoid.

General Advice

I would like to come up with some general advice that will be useful to Ork players. One of the biggest topics here will be proper application of the 'Waaaggh' move. Other areas can include identifying proper Ork arch types (shooty horde, Kult of Speed, etc) and the unit composition that makes up those choices. Anything else useful that should be communicated to wanna-be Warbosses can go here.

If you're going to post something, please preface it with which section you're writing for.




I'm going to move right on to evaluating the units, starting at the top with HQ.

Unit Evaluation: HQ

The special character HQ choices are all decent enough, but none of them stand out as obvious 'take me over the standard choice!' like Eldrad, Lemartes, or Mephiston, I'm going to leave off discussing them for a while and focus on the main choices.

Warboss
Utility: Competitive

The Warboss has seen a significant upgrade in his stats with getting T5. He no longer fears instant death from S8 attacks, which includes 99% of all Power Fist attacks. His points have stayed modest, however he is lacking in a few crucial areas:

He can not take a power weapon.
He can not get a good armor save while staying mobile.

These two crucial options leave him somewhat limited in effective builds. Because the Warboss is no longer a mandatory character for an Ork army, there is no point to minimizing him out. If you want a minimal cheap HQ, there are better choices. So in order to make him effective you really have to make him a close combat unit. The only effective option he's got here is the Power Klaw, either through the Klaw itself or Mega Armor. This leads to two eventual paths, one of which is readily more optimal: The Biker Boss.

Close Combat ICs that can't move quickly are near useless. The Warboss can be kitted out on a Warbike that gives him a 4+ armor save and a 4+ Cover save from shooting. It makes him T5(6) so he's harder to wound for non-rending or no-power fist units. It also lets him be extremely mobile which can allow the Ork player to get into combat unmolested, since he is still an Independent Character and thus can not be shot at if he's not the closest model to an enemy unit.

By abusing his IC status in this method, it should be very easy for Ork players to get the Boss into combat almost wherever they want him to be, which can include taking out units like Shooty Carnifexs, non-powerfist squads, or almost anything that doesn't have rending. He will need luck to charge headlong into a Demon Prince and come out living, but he's decent enough vs. most HQs. He's even got a good chance at taking down Hive Tyrants, especially if they're carrying around some guns and didn't take implant attack.

The key is understanding what he can and can not kill. Many times its better off playing conservatively, and some games you just have to sacrifice him to make him worthwhile. Its not always a good idea to go up against enemy HQs, and some squads should be avoided at all costs. But if you use him right, I think he can be a great addition to any Ork army.

Building your Boss
When kitting the biker boss, there are some simple choices to take, below I'm going to summarize the best biker boss I think that can be built:

Warbike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body (5+ Inv), Attack Squig (+1 Attack).

The boss comes with a second CCW already, so this bumps him up to 6 Attacks, 7 on the Charge with a S10 power klaw. He will have to swing simultaneously with Power Fists, but he's got the attacks and WS to do the damage.

The alternative is Mega Armor, which has its own host of problems with regards to movement. This nearly necessitates that your Warboss be mounted in a Trukk, joined to a unit in order to see combat. There isn't much reason to take a Mega Armored Warboss, over the biker boss, but if I had to I'd kit him out as such:

Mega Armor, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

He's got less attacks but is moderately more survivable from normal attacks than the Biker Boss. I say moderately because the Mega Armored Boss is T5, where the Biker Boss is T5(6), which makes it much harder for most things to put wounds on the boss (including Demon Princes, Hive Tyrants, and S6 Power Fists). Against the attacks that actually threaten the Warboss, they have the same invulnerable save.

After these two configurations I can't see any other configurations for a Warboss to take. If you want something cheap, take a Mek or Weirdboy. If you're taking a Warboss it should be because he's effective and in terms of outright killyness, and its hard to get a better all rounder than the Biker Boss described above. And you certainly won't get a decent warboss by taking options like the Combi shot weapons (which remove your ability to have 2CCWs) or a Big Choppa, which is as useless in the new dex as it was in the old one.

Special Considerations
One thing about the Warboss is that taking him allows you to take a unit of Nobz or Meganobz as a troops choice. While this is not the most efficient thing that you could do in the new Dex, it is something very fun. Not every game is at a tournament, and sometimes sub-optimal units are very fun to use. If you're looking to make an Ork army that is more for fun than for winning a GT, this is something to consider.

Big Mek
Utility: Competitive

The Big Mek is an interesting choice for an Ork army. He is more of a support unit than anything else. Because of his profile he's not going to be a CC monster like the Warboss, more like a Nob on steroids. You can give him a power weapon, but it won't get extra attacks for multiple CCWs, and he's only I4 on the charge. Suffice it to say, if you want a close combat character, the Mek is not for you. He can be made 'decent' in close combat, but nothing as good as the Boss.

Building your Big Mek

The Big Mek brings two big support options to an army: The Kustom Force Field (KFF) or the Shokk Attack Gun (SAG). Sadly, the two can not be combined onto one Big Mek. You also can not combine either weapon with Mega Armor or a Warbike, which would have made either option much better for different reasons.

The KFF is defensive in nature and can be useful to support a horde of Boyz by giving them cover saves even out in the open. It is somewhat expensive and its only for units within 6", although it no longer says that the whole unit must be within 6" to claim the cover save, which can extend the range over the old version. In fact, this is one of the most compelling reasons to take the new Big Mek. Because if the unit must be within 6", but it doesn't specify that the whole unit must be within 6" as the old version, then you are looking at the potential coverage area for a single Big Mek with KFF to be an absolutely huge area as it balloons up to cover an entire mob of 30, where only a few Boyz string along to be within 6" of the Big Mek. This is an interpretation, based on RAW for the Kustom Force Field. I just wanted to point this out as this potentially huge advantage for the Big Mek may be FAQ'ed away in the future or at the very least contested by opponents or judges in a tournament.

The SAG is offensive, and luckily it does not roll to hit but fires like an ordinance weapon. The problem is that while its potentially destructive, you end up with a 22% chance of a misfire. Not all the results are terrible for the misfire though, some are even better, so its actually still pretty good, even if a bit risky! I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that you have a 1/36 chance to roll a double six for the SAG result, which basically means that wherever the template touches is automatically removed from play. Yes, on the basic reading of the rules this is not instant death and can remove monstrous creatures wholesale. Granted this is not something you can plan on happening, but it shows the potential of the SAG. Additionally, this is one of the rare sources of AP2 that you can reliably get in an Ork list, which is something to be pointed out.

The benefits to either loadout is that you can abuse the Mek's IC status to prevent him from being shot and in many cases, assaulted. With the KFF, by not joining him to any units keeps your cover save active where you want it, and with the SAG you can get a weapon that will be able to fire almost all game without worry about getting shot back.

The only question remains on how to finish kitting out the Big Mek. A lot of this depends on your choice of SAG or KFF. If the Mek has a KFF, its likely that he will eventually see CC, so giving him a burna or PK is not a bad option. Since the best use for a KFF Mek is in between big mobs of Boyz to distribute the cover save, many times he'll be charging, which is when the Burna becomes an I4 S5 power weapon, NICE!

For the SAG Mek, I wouldn't recommend giving him anything else. If he's getting shot, he's likely dead no matter what other options you give him, and if he's in assault, its also probably something bad as well.

The Mek can be given other guns, but the best option is the Kustom Mega Blasta (KMB), which has almost as good a chance of wounding the Big Mek as it does actually hitting its target, so it should be avoided.

Special Considerations
One thing about the Big Mek is that taking him allows you to take a DeffDread as a troops choice. While this is not the most efficient thing that you could do in the new Dex, it is something very fun. Not every game is at a tournament, and sometimes sub-optimal units are very fun to use. If you're looking to make an Ork army that is more for fun than for winning a GT, this is something to consider.

Weirdboy
Utility: Semi-Competitive

Believe it or not I feel that the Weirdboy makes almost as good of a second HQ choice as a SAG Big Mek. He has very little options, but he has the ability to significantly enhance your army.

First things first, you should always upgrade the Weirdboy to a Warphead. Rolling a 1 for your psychic power is not fun, and the re-roll is pretty essential to using the weird boy.

The main Utility that I see in a Weirdboy is the fact that you can get a 'Waaagh' move off with him. The trick is sticking him in a giant unit (20 or more Boyz) to give him LD10, and then just pray for that 6 roll for your power. Don't get the 6? Re-roll.

What I see with the Weirdboy is a way to make footslogging slugga boyz (an old favorite of previous Codex Orks players) at least somewhat viable. By even using two Weirdboyz, you have a little better than 50/50 to get a Waaagh power off each turn, not accounting for things like Pyschic Hoods or Runes of Warding.

After this kind of application, there really aren't any other ways to use him. He's not much good in a KoS or speedy kind of list, mainly because you can't really rely on getting the Waaagh power. Still, I can see him being a fun choice, and if you're looking for the dirt cheapest HQ you can get for an army that maxes out on units or troops, then a Weirdboy is a pretty good choice.

HQ Summary

Who knew that they could write a codex where each HQ choice is actually good enough to warrant taking? And a new dex where the special characters don't completely overshadow their unit entries they are meant to replicate? I think its a pretty good sign for the section overall, because any time you actually have to think about what to take its a good thing.

This isn't to say that there isn't a "Winner" of the HQ selection. In terms of direct damage and reliability, I don't think you can do much better than the Biker Boss outlined above. S10 Power Klaws come in handy against things like Monoliths or any AV14 Tank that can't reliably be dealt with at range. Plus its always nice to have that extra fast close combat unit lying around.

Each HQ choice does bring about its own risks, and the Biker Boss is no exception. The thing that puts him over the others, in my opinion, is that you have the most control over his risk. By using him carefully, and abusing the hell out of his IC status, you can make sure he gets into a favorable close combat where he will certainly earn more than his points back. He can be used as a throw-away unit to cause disruption and still earn his keep in an army, or he can be played conservatively and thrown against targets he's sure to wipe out with little risk of being killed (Las/Plas or Devastator squads really are not going to like the Biker Boss).

Still, the Biker Boss is not a clear-cut winner, like say a Hive Tyrant is for a Tyranid army. As stated by Yakface, the type of army you are fielding will really determine what the 'winner' is going to be for your army.

If you are playing an KoS or Stormboy heavy army, then taking a Biker Boss is pretty much mandatory. If you are taking a shooty horde army then 2 Meks with SAGs can be a great idea because they fit in with the style of rest of the army and give you some much needed AP2 devestation (something you don't get too many other places in the list). If you're playing a horde assault army then a couple of Warpheads or a couple of Meks with KFFs (or one of each) would definitely help get your Boyz into combat more safely.

Additionally, the Biker Boss costs as much as a budget Leman Russ Battle Tank. Two KFF Meks or two Warpheads would cost only marginally more points.


Unit Evaluation: Elites

The Elite section is pretty crowded in the new Dex, and sadly its also the beginning of the pattern for the rest of the codex: Lots of options, only a few really good choices.

This isn't to say that there are units here that can be taken for fun and still be decent, but in terms of being competitive there are only one or two choices from this section that stand out as something to include in Ork tournament lists.

Nobz
Utility: Poor

Sadly the unit of Regular Nobz is pretty poor in terms of performance. Even in their "best" configurations

These are one of the sadder units in the codex, especially in light of similar units like Mega Nobz or Flash Gitz. They're very expensive and don't have any good options. They do have some fun configurations that aren't half bad, but as you'll find out they are the epitome of a mediocre unit that you can sink a ton of points into with little return. What's worse is that they end up simply replicating what is already available in similar mobz for far less points.

Equipping the Nobz

Lets start with the obvious things not to take: Big Choppas or any of the shooty options. They all suck. This mob is made for CC, not shooting. If you want shooty Nobz take Flash Gitz.

There are a few things that can be done to make these guys decent:

-Painboss. This is an expensive upgrade, but it gives the unit Feel No Pain which is necessary for a unit with T4, 2W and a 6+ Save. Additionally he lets you give each model a 5+ Inv save; with an additional cost per model.

-Bike Upgrades for the unit make them even more expensive, but at least useful. Combined with the Painboss you can get a T4(5), 2W, 4+ Armor, 4+ Cover (always), and Feel No Pain unit. And if you want you can throw the Inv Save on there too. It'll be as expensive as all get out, but it'll be survivable.

As far as CC weapons, every Nob can take a Power Klaw, but it will be expensive. You're likely better off only taking one in the mob, maybe two.

One upgrade that is pretty essential is taking a Waaagh Banner. This is the only unit that can take this, and it gives the unit +1WS, which when you think about it, on the charge the regular Nobz will hit with 5 Attacks each at WS5, S5, I4, and they have twin linked Big Shootas that run at half range.

Off the Bikes, they can take a Trukk or Battlewagon transport to help get to CC. Both have their plusses and minuses to their use. The Wagon is expensive but has the Armor of a Leman Russ and is open topped so you can assault. The Trukk is cheaper and faster, but more fragile. The only downside to the Battlewagon, besides the cost, is that its both expensive and non-scoring, unlike a Heavy Support Battlewagon. Because of this, if you're going to stay on foot, I'm going to recommend the Trukk over the wagon, but its not completely a clear cut choice.

That all said, this mob will never be cheap, and their minimum costs will still be very expensive. At the high end you can get some expensive models that are pretty survivable. But this brings another problem: Leadership. Without numbers, these Boyz will run at the first sign of trouble. Get hit with an opposing power fist and lose combat? You very likely can run away. This is the problem for any Elite Ork unit which is saddled with poor LD and doesn't have the Numbers to use the Mob Rule to keep fighting.

This unit can be used in friendly games as a heck of a points sink, but still a fun unit that can be effective. Much like how a Land Raider with Assault Terminators and a Chaplain isn't exactly tournament worthy, but it is a fun unit to use in friendly games that can do wonderful things. So are kitted out Biker Nobz, or even Nobz in a Trukk or Wagon.

Helping them be somewhat useful for fun
One way to alleviate the problems of this unit, which are mainly LD based is simply to throw a Warboss or special character into the unit. This probably leads to "overkill" in terms of damage output, because the Boss is so potent, and thus is probably better off on his own, but if you were looking for a way to use this Mob without having too much trouble because of the rules, this is one way around the problem.

Meganobz
Utility: Poor

This is one of those units that really aren't all that good, but its not as bad as regular Nobz. For the points, they're probably not worth it, but taken in a Trukk and used as a "super" styled Trukk mob, they can be pretty fun.

There isn't any real choice to how to equip them, its just about the squad size. Your basic question is "Trukk or Battlewagon", which has all the problems mentioned before. The Trukk is probably better, but a case can be made for the Battlewagon in fun games.

The crunch on these guys is that they're Slow & Purposeful (so no +1 Attack for charging), and the fact that they have no Inv save. And again they have the problem that there will never be a lot of models in this unit, and if they get smacked by a Power Fist and you really start losing models fast (because of instant death), your expensive Meganobz are going to run away faster than a mob of grots.

They really epitomize the kind of unit that is fun to use and can be decent in fun games, but at a tournament they're going to struggle to earn their keep.

Helping them be somewhat useful for fun
One way to alleviate the problems of this unit, which are mainly LD based is simply to throw a Warboss or special character into the unit. This probably leads to "overkill" in terms of damage output, because the Boss is so potent, and thus is probably better off on his own, but if you were looking for a way to use this Mob without having too much trouble because of the rules, this is one way around the problem.

Tankbustas
Utility: Poor

These guys are really one of the worst things to happen to a previously great unit. No more tank hunters, but they all get Rokkits! Wow sounds great right? Wrong. Due to their Glory Hogs special rule, they will always have to fire at a tank if it is in LOS, regardless of range. So if you have an empty Rhino sitting out in the field and the Tank Bustas are 6" away from a squad of Marines, they have to fire at the tank, despite the fact that you'd much rather fire at the Marines.

To top it all off, they're expensive. In fact they're the same points cost as the Burna Boyz and Lootas. The problem here is that they're still T4 6+ save models, and they have to get close to fire their Rokkits. This is a recipe for failure, especially because they can not take a transport.

This is not to say that they do not have their uses. One area as pointed out by Yakface is area denial. Bomb squigs (apparently) do not require line of sight to use (nor do they appear to be slowed by difficult or impassable terrain) you can take a minimum sized unit of Tankbustas, give them 3 bomb squigs and keep them hidden behind cover.

This can give you a scoring unit that has an 18" bubble that vehicles will be afraid to enter. Plus if you get really desperate you can always move the unit into the cover and get one round of desperation shooting off before your opponent obliterates them.

Overall they certainly aren't competitive but the squigg bombs deserve a little attention considering how few points they are.


Equipping the Tankbustas:
Their upgrades are likewise cool, but pretty damn well useless. The issue being that Bomb Squigs have to get close, and the Tankhammer has to get even closer. There is no way a competent opponent is going to let them get anywhere near where they have to go to be worthwhile. Even upgrading the Nob is pointless, exchanging his Rokkit for a PK just isn't good sense.

And its not like they really present a threat to AV14 tanks in the first place. Even if you buy 15 of them (which is a ridiculous amount of points), you will average a little less than one glance on AV14. They're just not that good.

For fun, I can see putting 12 of them in an Open Topped Battlewagon (with a Killkannon) to just shoot at stuff like crazy, if you can get a target in range. They are a pretty bad choice no less, but if you can get close enough, it'll be hilarious to set off Bomb Squigs!

Another Perspective

Not everyone agrees whole heartedly with my assessment of the Tankbustas, and 40kenthusiast presented a pretty well versed argument in favor of the Tankbustas being something worth considering.

I really don't agree with you about the competitiveness of the Tankbusta boys. I feel that they are an excellent unit.

Every Ork has a rokkit. They are shooty orks. They are going to outshoot marines at 24, marines kill 2/3 * 1/2 vs. 1/3 * 5/6...cover doesn't change this as both sides are currently APing. They cost less than marines, and outshoot them.

Some other things:

1. Escalation. No Glory Hogs to worry about for 2 rounds as they wipe the opponents infantry off the field with a barrage of rokkits. When the vehicles do come in, the bustas are safely ensconced in good cover, ready and waiting to surge forth and return fire.

2. Kill 2 vehicles. With their bomb squigs the Glory Hogs are actually able to kill more than one vehicle in a turn. Shoot at a far away vehicle and release the squigs to get the closer one.

3. Fire magnet. A bunch of boys who each got rokkits may seem like an appetizing target, but remember that this is Codex: Orks we are talking about here. Da Boys are getting closer and closer, in trukks and fortresses, on jetbikes or jetpacks. If they take the time out to fire on your tankbustas and as a consequence get charged by a full boys mob, I think you'll be satisfied. Tankbustas in cover will require 2 or 3 squads fire to wipe out (at long range, rapid fire will cut em down, but if they are that close you'll crump em wif yer fists anyway).

I see the Glory Boys rule as being like the "Don't Touch That" rule on the looted basilisk last time around, its a small check on the power of a very nice unit, and orky in the extreme.

Here are the conditions that must be fulfilled before you lose your shots.

At the beginning of your turn
1. Vehicle in LOS
2. No vehicles within 30".
3. No friendly vehicle can be moved into a position to block LOS to the vehicle.
4. Tankbustas can't move in such a way as to lose their LOS to the vehicle.
5. Nobody else can pop the vehicle first

This may not be enough to change someone's mind on Tankbustas, but maybe its cool that two reasonable people can read the same codex and come off with different ideas about a unit's viability.

Burna Boyz
Utility: Poor

These poor Boyz shall be remembered as "The Little Mob that Could Have". They could have been so good, they could have been a staple choice to take in many lists, if only they could take a Trukk.

Equipping the Burnas:

Do not upgrade any of them to Meks, it would be a crime against all Ork kind to commit such a travesty. You give up the burna for a Kustom Mega Blasta that has a good chance of frying the Mek shooting it instead of the enemy.

Using them is going to be rough and like Tank Bustas, they won't work in escalation. As they are now, your only good bet is putting them in a Battlewagon to get them where they need to be (up close and then in CC). On foot, they're an expensive mob thats T4 6+ Save, and any opponent worth playing against is going to shoot them before they hit your lines.

In fact, their only Utility in fun games is in a Battle Wagon, Zooming to get into CC via Waaagh Move + Assault.

Kommandos
Utility: Semi-Competitive*

These Boyz just barely earn the rank of Semi-Competitive, especially in light of what they compete against in the Elites section. On their own however they can be a pretty good unit, and more importantly they can really provide you with a number of interesting tactical options.

It is also worth pointing out up front, that these guys are the cheapest Elites choice available, on a model by model basis.

Equipping the Kommandos

The way you equip them will depend largely on their intended use. They can take two of any special weapon (burna, rokkit, big shoota), regardless of mob size (max 15). The only upgrade I feel is useless is the Big Shoota, since if you want dakka you can get it elsewhere in the list. Rokkits and Burnas on the other hand absolutely shine in completely different areas.

First are Rokkits. One tactic that can be used is that for a cheap-as-chips squad, you can take 5 Kommandos and 2 Rokkits and use them as a throw-away unit that can infiltrate and with luck (and first turn), can take turn 1 shots at side armor or at skimmers that haven't moved yet. This is a pretty useful unit that will die the moment something sneezes at them, but they are going to require immediate attention or there will be problems for the other player.

The only thing I don't like here is that even vs. normal Tanks, you're still relying on 2 Rokkits to do their job, that hit on 5's. That and the fact that their main Utility is really first turn dependent, which I don't like. It'll be awesome when it works, and they're cheap enough to risk it many times, but there are always other units that those points could be spent on elsewhere. Still, if you like this sneaky git idea, then go for it.

The second method to equipping the Kommandos is to throw two burnas in the unit and then probably max out the squad and put in the obligatory Power Klaw Nob. Between infiltrate and Waaagh, they can do some damage. If you combo this with a Weirdboy or two and get a first turn Waaagh power, you can do some serious damage. Even without that, they're a turn 2 hit and area denial unit. Not friggin bad.

As a side note, if you do go this route, add the Bosspole to the unit. With their small squad size its going to be rough getting them to stick around. Part of their Utility is the fact that they can tie units up nicely, they can't do that if they run when they lose combat.

*Speshul Konsiderations:

One unit of Kommandos per army may forgo upgrading to a Nob and take Boss Snikrot instead. He carries a heaftier price tag than a PK Nob, and he can't ignore armor saves, but he is something that pushes this unit from "Semi-Competitive" to "Competitive".

His ambush rule allows the Ork player, if they so chose, to allow the unit to go into reserves and when available, they may enter play from any table edge.

This is a pretty big deal because of the possibilities it allows, this nearly guarantees them the charge on many units if your opponent isn't careful and something is within 12" of a table edge, and if they are careful, it could be useful to declare the Waaagh and use Fleet to catch your target. And while Snikrot doesn't ignore armor saves, he can be counted on to put a few wounds on almost anything, especially on the charge. It should be noted that if you do need anti-armor punch, two Burnas in the unit CAN ignore armor saves, making this the ideal unit to take down MEQ squads.

Hopefully it should go without saying, but if you're going to run Snikrots mob, take Burnas and the max squad size. This unit will be expensive in almost any configuration you want to use for close assaults, which is a downside, but with Snikrot you really stand a chance to make your points back. This is more so vs. certain armies (like Marines), but in general if they don't make their points back they will certainly tie key units up at the right moment, which may not make back its points, but it can win you games in its own right and should not be ignored.

Lootas
Utility: Competitive

In true GW fashion, what used to be one of the worst units in the old Codex is back with absolutely amazing set of rules.

In every list, almost always in the Elite section, you find that one unit that just screams out "TAKE ME!" above all the other choices. This is one of those units for the Orks. Its not because they're much more survivable than the other Boyz, or because their damage output is amazing for their points (though it can be at times), but because you simply need them.

Lootas are the only unit in the Ork army that can reliably deal with tanks up to and including AV13 at long range. They are quite possibly the best anti-skimmer unit in the entire game. You will pay points for this ability, but it is available to you. And remember folks, any time you can put the screws to a Mech Eldar player with Orks a Nob somewhere out there gets his Power Klaw.

Equipping the Lootas

They're already equipped as well as any Ork. Upgrading any of them to a Mek will immediately relegate your rank from "Warboss" to "Grot" by any Ork players in a 2 mile radius who gets word that you actually exchanged the Deffgun for a Kustom Mega Blasta or something worse.

On to actually using the Lootas, their application is very specific. These Boys are expensive, and they're still just T4 with a 6+ save. What they do have compared to other Elites that fit this criteria is a 48" range with a S7 AP4 gun that does D3 shots. To use Lootas effectively you will have to deploy them in cover where they will have a good line of fire to a good portion of the board.

That's really all there is to using them. Their application once deployed is to sit still and just keep firing at anything that's a target. They can put wounds on Dakka Fexes, present a credible threat to any skimmer, even ones with Holofields+Spirit Stones, and can put glances on Predators.

Some people may disagree on the methods of statistics used for Lootas, but if there is one thing that everyone can agree on is that a unit of Lootas is one of the few credible threats to a Holofields + Spirit Stones Grav Tank in 40k. Fact is that if a Mech Eldar player has to spend a turn in LOS and range of a unit of Lootas they will not like it.

Likewise one unit of 12 can open fire on a Dakka Fex, at 48", and depending on the number of shots for the unit can put anywhere from 2 to 8 wounds on it reliably, and once you get a Dakka Fex rolling that many saves on a 3+, he will start to go down. Now imagine firing this on a unit of Marines or equivalent and you see why they can be so devastating.

Because of these things, this is a unit that screams to be taken in multiples.

I recommend going with Mob sizes over 10. I'm finding that 12 to 14 is about the max I want to use, mostly on the lower side. One of their main problems is that they will never have a lot of models and they can't get a Bosspole. So if they really start taking casualties, they will run. And if they're low on models their LD will be poor to take target priority tests. So keeping the mob at a healthy size and in a place that will make engaging them difficult is crucial to using them well.

The thing to remember about Lootas is that unlike the other "really good" stuff in the Ork list, or in any list, is that while they are extremely potent, you have to use them well or you will see them die. These guys are not Terminators, they are not Harlies or Dragons delivered via Falcons, but I think they're going to be used just as much as those units, despite not being as survivable. They leave very little room for error and will take skill to use, but when used correctly they can be devastating. And most importantly they do things that nothing else in the Ork list can replicate.

On the other hand

I feel that it should be pointed out that after some experience with the Lootas, they are indeed as killy as they seem to be. However, while they are something that should be taken in multiples I feel that maxing out on them would be a bad idea for two very important reasons:

They are expensive and fragile
You may not always get enough terrain to deploy them in safely with good LOS. This is especially true if you take three large squads of them.

So while this does not take away from Lootas being the premier Ork Elite choice, it does give pause to any player who thinks that they should therefore max out on them in any competitive list.

Elites Summary

With GW, and even with Phil Kelly, not everything in a codex can be useful, and Elites is a section that is crowded with a lot of bad choices and a few very good ones.

Competitively speaking, Lootas stand out above the rest of the choices like a Nob in a Grot Mob. Kommandos make a good showing, but ultimately in the context of the rest of the army, the Lootas are what really win out in a number of competitive builds simply because they can reliably put down skimmers at very long range. Its a fact of the Meta-game that you need to be able to glance at least 3 Falcons/Hammerheads per turn reliably. These Boyz give you that option and nothing else in the list can replicate that.

This is not to say the other units aren't fun. In terms of character and fun, the choices in the Elites section is one of the best in the dex! When playing friendly games, there is no reason to ignore Meganobz in a Trukk or maybe even go nuts and put down a mob of Bike Nobz with a Painboy. And either unit can be Troops if you take a Warboss!

That is what makes the Ork dex so successful. If you want to be competitive at a tournament, you can. But if you want a crazy fun choice with a lot of Character, there is a wealth of options you can take. Just don't expect them to do well in a very competitive environment.

Unit Evaluation: Troops

This is where all the excitement comes from in the new Ork dex. For the first time in a long time it looks like a horde army is not only viable, but potentially, dare I say it, top tier in a Warhammer 40k book.

All of this is because of the amazing Utility present in what looks to be an anemic troops section. Well as you're going to see, despite there only being two unit entries there is a plethora of choice in the Troops section, and most of it is good!


Ork Boyz
Utility: Competitive

Phil Kelly rolled up the four main entries for Orks in the previous codex into one entry right here, and boy did he do a hell of a job.

The points cost for Ork Boyz is on par with Guardsmen, despite all the buffs Orks get to Morale and Assault. This, combined with the new special rules for Orks gives us a lot of options in how Boyz are used in game and has new implications for almost any configuration you can use for Orks in this entry.

Equipping your Boyz
Lets state up front a couple of generics:

Any Ork can be given Frag grenades for the normal price you'd expect to see it at.
The only special weapons Ork Boyz can have are either Big Shootas or Rokkits
Special weapon quantities are limited by the number of Boyz in the Mob. Basically you get 1 special weapon for every 10 Orks in a Mob, to a maximum of 3.

After all this you have two ways to arm your Boyz Close Combat or Shooty.

Slugga Boyz

These are now simply Boyz armed with a Pistol and CCW. There really isn't much more to them than that. This is a big decrease from their old Choppa rules, however these Boyz are now 33% cheaper than they used to be points wise, and with the new Furious Charge rules, the Boyz are still very effective in close combat.

Shoota Boyz

These Boyz cost the same as their Slugga counterparts, but are much improved over their old versions. Shootas are now S4 AP6 Assault 2, 18". Because of this change in weapon, the BS2 of the Shoota Boyz is fairly negated, especially for their points cost.

Ard Boyz

For a relatively substantial cost, you can give 0-1 unit of Boyz in an army a 4+ armor save. Some people love this idea, others don't. I'm in the latter category as I feel that the 4+ save really just makes them too expensive for their own good. Half the appeal of Orks is massive numbers, this is quite frankly a lot of points for an armor save that will be ignored by most heavy weapons in the game, and then some.

Probably the best thing I can say about Ard Boyz is that if you find that you need to fill some points, putting the upgrade on a Trukk Bound squad isn't a terrible idea. Its probably not worth it, but it can be somewhat useful for Sluggas in a Trukk. For Footslogging Mobz, just avoid it.

Weapons and Equipment

Weapons for Boyz are pretty straight forward Big Shootas or Rokkit are all you get to choose from. For me, the choice seems really clear. If you want Dakka - buy Shoota Boyz. From playing Orks for years under the old codex, I've found that you never can have enough Rokkits, and that hasn't changed in the new codex. If you need long range multi-shot weapons, they're available in other places, but you can NEVER get enough rokkits.

Nob equipment is likewise just as straight forward. You can chose between a Power Klaw or a Big Choppa. One is a power fist and the other one is just +2 Strength and allows armor saves. There really isn't a choice here. S8 or S9 on the charge and ignoring armor saves, but striking last on a model that's saddled with I3 anyway really is the winner, every time.

Other equipment available is the Bosspole and/or 'eavy Armor. The Bosspole can mitigate LD issues, which is key for Orks who are getting low in numbers (Trukkers!), so it should be considered almost mandatory in any case except the most dire ones where you are running out of points to fit just one last squad in. 'eavy armor should probably be avoided like the plague. There is literally no point to equipping him with it in a normal unit of Boyz. He should never have to take saves on his own, that's what all the Boyz are there for!



Organizing the Mobz

Each style of Ork Boy really suits itself to one method of play.

Slugga Boyz like being mounted in Trukks rather than footslogging it. With the new Trukk rules and careful use of the new Waaagh rules, your delivery of Slugga Boyz becomes a much more reliable affair. They are limited to 12 Models, but they can hit pretty hard for their points, just don't forget the PK Nob and don't bother with any weapon upgrades - most of the time when you're charging you really aren't going to be trying to get shots in, and it robs you of a CC attack.

Shoota Boyz are now the premier footslogging unit. With their effective 24" range after moving and shooting, they can manage to engage the enemy as they close the distance to (presumably) get into CC, which many times is a pretty good place to be, despite the fact that they're "Shoota Boyz". This is based on the notion that they can take Power Klaw Nobz, which is a point of contention for some rules arguments, but it seems the overall opinion coming out of the new Dex is that they can. This is important because without the PK Nob in a Shoota Mob, their overall effectiveness drops drastically.

That all said, assuming they can take a PK Nob, they are one of the most effective units in the Codex. On foot, my preferred mob size is 20 Boyz. It keeps the squad pretty cheap and maneuverable, and like any horde army, you really want to maximize on the number of units in your army, and 20 seems to be the best balance - mainly because it gives you two special weapons in the unit.

Other Configurations

Shootas really don't work so well in Trukks. These Mobz are just meant for CC, where Sluggas are just better.

Footslogging Sluggas is more arguable as a configuration than Shootas in a Trukk, but to be honest footslogging CC troops has never been a good idea in 4th edition. Even with the Waaagh move, the Shoota Boyz with a PK Nob really just makes such a better unit for the job that they just completely eclipse Slugga Boyz. There is one exception to this, as mentioned in the HQ section. If you take two Warpheads and just keep trying for the Waaagh Power and hopefully get a Fleet move each turn, Sluggas are a decent footslogging unit. But this is an exception and not the rule.

General Usage Comments

Sloggin Shootas
Shoota Boyz on foot really have almost no need for an explanation. Combo them with a KFF Mek and run forward, shoot, and when the opportunity presents itself, Waaagh and Charge! The biggest thing is to remember to keep your Power Klaw Nob buried safely behind a mass of bodies to make it hard to range snipe him or ever have him get stuck in a CC Killzone where the enemy can force his removal. You should have a lot of Boyz in your Mobz, use them well to shield your PK Nobz in assault and make sure they always swing by being within 2" of as many Orks who are in B2B contact with the enemy as possible. Thats really the biggest trick one must learn when playing a horde of Orks. Everything else including squad spacing and deployment is based on the opponent face and the terrain available.

Trukkin Sluggas
Sluggas, especially in a Trukk, really need a few key words of wisdom. With only 12 Boyz in the Mob, you can suffer from LD issues, so a Bosspole is always a worthy investment. A few key things here should be mentioned as far as usage. When used in great groups, you should try and maximize the one Waaagh move you get per game. Try and set it up so that all of your Trukk Mobz hit the enemy all in one turn to maximize the effect. You shouldn't get in a position where using the Waaagh move only helps one Mob of Boyz. Additionally there is the issue of Mob placement once disembarking from a Trukk. The words spoken above for Nob placement behind a healthy amount of Boyz is just as applicable here as it is in the Shoota Boyz footslogging section.

Keep him within 2" of as many Boyz who are in B2B contact as possible! The secret to pulling this off is the order in which you move your models when charging. Per the rules, you move the closest model in B2B first, and then the rest are up to you, so long as you get as many models in B2B who can make it there as possible. The trick is to move all those models first, and then the rest move up to pad the killzone with the Nob in it, while at the same time keeping the Nob within 2" of as many models in B2B contact as possible. This prevents your opponent from pulling models in B2B as normal casualties and denying the Nob his chance to swing the Klaw.

One thing that should be mentioned from my experience with the new Trukkers compared to the old ones, and this is for players of the Old Orks, especially Kult of Speed, is that you must remember: your trukk mobz are not guaranteed to kill almost any target anymore! This wasn't always true with the old rules, but with the limitation of I3 on the Boyz, you really want to be careful in how you engage units with multiple attacks per model (assault squads, Chaos Marine squads, etc). They will almost always strike before you do, so set your charges up carefully so that the kill zones aren't too large, but more towards a flank of a unit where you will get fewer attacks hitting you first. Sure you'll kill less models, but in the aftermath in the next round of assault, you can outnumber the enemy by a greater margin and bring your numbers (and PK Nob) to bear with a much greater effect.

Gretchin
Utility: Very Poor

What can I say about this unit. They removed their cover save giving ability for Orks, but kept their mine clearance abilities. So basically, the reason you took them before has been taken away.

They've been given BS3, which is pretty good except for the fact that in their basic units Grots can only ever have 12" Single Shot Lasguns.

Honestly, there isn't anything I can say here. The Slavers (or Runtherderz in the new Dex) can't get Rokkits or other upgrades anymore that make them useful. Heck the only use I can see for them is screening the Boyz from assault, and even that could probably be better fulfilled with another unit of Boyz.

Look at it this way, a unit of 30 Grotz costs the same amount of points that buy you 20 Orks.

The only good thing about Grots is that they make Big Gunz and Killa Kanz more appealing. As their own unit, they're one of the most useless things in the Codex. I literally can not conceive of a scenario where they are worth the points you will have to spend on them. This makes them worse than any other unit rated "Poor" in this Tactica.

Troops Summary

Well out of the two choices available, I hope its become clear which one you want to use and which one you want to avoid.

Fortunately with the way the Codex is laid out, the one choice available to you gives you such a wide variety of choices for how the unit will play that there is nothing to be too upset about.

About the only thing I can say in summary is that when choosing how to field your Boyz, either in Trukks or on Foot, the old 40k adage of "What's good to take once, its good to take in multiples" very much holds true for Orks. The most effective lists are the ones that will run multiple units of Footsloggers or multiple units of Trukks. There are cases where one or two unit of Trukkers can compliment a foot horde, but in those cases, its sometimes better to be running Storm Boyz for that role instead of Sluggas in a Trukk.



Unit Evaluation: Fast Attack

Storm Boyz
Utility: Competitive
These Boyz are one of the best units in the Codex. They are seriously now the premier dedicated assault unit in the Ork army. Their big draw is that they move an extra 1D6" in the movement phase every turn, and can still shoot and charge after this extra movement. Sure if you roll a 1 then you take a wound (and still move 1"), but this downside is well worth the benefit.
Now remember that you roll this extra movement dice before you move the unit, so you always know exactly how far you can or can not move. This is absolutely huge, because if you know that your movement won't take you to the next piece of cover or into assault, you can plan accordingly. Also its important to realize that Storm Boyz are not "infantry" so you do not get any benefit from the 'Waaagh' move. They're fast, but not that fast!

One of the things that really make these Boyz shine is that on the charge, you stand a very good chance of getting most if not all of your mob engaged, because they're so extremely fast. I recommend taking Mobz of at least 16 Boyz, and in a list where you are going to live with only one squad, I suggest taking the full mob of 20. I find it hard to build a competitive list without at least two Mobz of 16 Boyz in it though. These Boyz are that good!

Equipping your Boyz

They really don't get a lot of options and to be honest, they don't need them! They come with Frags already, and the only option is the no-brainer upgrade of a Nob, who by this point you should realize gets a Power Klaw and not the Huge Choppa. The Nob also has the option to take 'Eavy Armor, which just like in normal Boyz Mobz, should be avoided as its relatively useless.

The question is whether or not to spend the points for a Bosspole, which can be worth it many times because these Boyz will see combat and LD is an issue. On the other hand I'm finding that points are so tight when building a competitive list that you really can run out of points and there is some idea that if your Boyz are losing combat and there is a small enough amount of them around that they're going to break, they're probably about to die anyway.

That all said, the honest truth is that the safer, more conservative bet is to spend the small bit of points and give them the Bosspole. After that they're ready to hit the table. Just use cover and get them into CC safely and you should be set!

Special Character

Ahhh Zaagstruk, what a conundrum of a Character upgrade. He replaces the Nob now, and instead of giving you a 12" charge, he allows your unit to Deepstrike and Charge the turn you arrive! Not bad, but his 'Power Klaw' that may go at I value, is only there on the turn you charge! And when you deepstrike and charge, you lose D3 Storm Boyz! Combine this with a hefty points cost, and I think you'll find that he's really not worth the points even with such a shocking ability.

War Buggies
Utility: Semi-Competitive

Its amazing how something can go from near mandatory in one dex to only "OK" in the next one. Such is the power of new Codexes and such is the fate of the War Buggy. These guys really used to be my favorite anti-tank units in an Ork army. They were cheap, they were fast, they were scoring, and they gave you somewhat reliable rokkits for a cheap price. Now they still do all those things, but they compete against other units that do the same job with either better durability (arguable) or with more utility (not so arguable).

Now I don't mean to say that buggies should be avoided. I'm saying that it may be hard to find a place in your army for them, especially in light of the Storm Boyz that compete for this slot.

Equipping the Buggies

Big Shootas - The cheapest buggy gets you a Twin Linked Big Shoota. Given what the dakka output on these are, and the fact that you can get lots of shots other places in the Ork list, I pretty much write this option off, except in special cases which I'll get to later.

Rokkits - Lootas make up for the anti-tank deficiency that Buggies used to fill in the old Ork list, and with only S8, they're not the answer to our AV14 problems. So you're not buying much anti-tank here. The upgrade here isn't that expensive and is worth it over the Big Shoota if you have points to spare and want Buggies.

Skorcha - Oh what used to be the cheapest and one of the most effective options now becomes the most expensive, but at the same time, its still effective! Quick heavy flamers for not too many points ain't too shabby! Hop out and scorch a squad and make your points back and then some! This is actually a decent option for the buggies if you actually want to use them offensively and have them fulfill a unique roll you can't replicate elsewhere in the list.

Add-Ons - A whole lot of "meh" here. Some options like Armor Plates are tempting because hey, its extra armor on a scoring unit, yay for last turn moves to nab objectives!

Right?

Wrong. Its AV10 open topped and this upgrade is 1/3 the cost of the vehicle. Thats a lot of points for something that will only come into play 1/6th of the time when glanced and 1/6th of the time when penetrated.

Grot Riggers - Likewise the nerf to Grot Riggers working in the shooting phase and not the beginning of the turn to make the unit mobile again also somewhat limit my wanting to take it on such a cheap vehicle. Still, it can turn the unit scoring again on the last turn if you get it into position, and thats always helpful. Plus its relatively cheap, so it is worth while.

Red Paint Job - Its more expensive now, but an extra inch does go a mile when using 24" Rokkits or Template Skorcha. Also if you're going to use these guys with other ideas in mind like nabbing objectives at the end of the game, that extra inch really does help.

Wartrakk Upgrade - Debatable here. You can move 24-25" a turn, many times you can go around terrain features to get where you need to. Likewise, if you're rolling for dangerous terrain tests you'll probably be rolling 2D6 99% of the time, where you still have a chance at failing. I just don't know if this is worth the cost, I'm guessing not since I like my buggies cheap as possible.

Other Uses
There are other uses to this cheap little vehicle besides direct damage and objective grabbing.

Some people are already talking about converting Buggies from the new Trukk model. By doing so, they can create the perfect cheap "Screen Unit" for a whole lot of actual Trukk bound Mobz hiding behind it.

The new models look to be pretty high, and basing the Buggies on those models certainly can win you 'modeling points' with opponents, since current buggies pre-date 2nd Edition, but by screening Trukks with them, you may be considered to be "modeling to your advantage" which can bring about a huge question in sportsmanship and/or a hit in a sports score at a tournament. So while this tactic is quite valid, it has some out-of-game consequences in it.

Additionally with this tactic, you want at least two units of 2 to 3 Buggies to effectively screen your Trukks. Which means you're cutting into the amount of Storm Boyz that you can field in an army, and even when going with lots of Trukks, having a big mob of Storm Boyz to back you up in situations is crucial, so finding the balance between the two is going to be hard if you're dead set on this kind of application.


Warbikers
Utility: Poor

Ahh another "unit that could have been great". I'll sum up the changes really fast here:

Now get Slugga + Choppa for Extra CC attack = Good
Lose Psycho Blasta Special Rule = Bad, but fair enough
Gain 4+ Armor Save, Cover Save increased to 4+ = Great!
No more cover save passed to units behind them = Bad, but fair enough
Lose Fearless = Unit is no longer worth fielding!

Much like with Nobz, Mega Nobz, or any small unit of expensive Orks, these Boyz will not stick around very long once the going gets tough! The major LD issues that these guys will experience when stuck in where they want to be - Close Combat with a PK Nob, they will simply have problems against units with Power Fists or anything that gets past their T5 and 4+ Save. In fact against anything with a higher number of attacks is going to cause problems, and in the world of 'competitive 40k' these things are not hard to come by.

Now granted, with their 4+ Cover save they're pretty resilient from shooting with decent AP values, and T5 is pretty nice, but you will need to hug cover and only come out when its time to shoot and charge something, because if you take units with only say 6 Bikes in them, with 2 Casualties, they're testing on LD7 to run. Not pretty. Sure when they come out they can shoot with their nice Twin Linked half range Big Shootas and then charge, which will put some hurt on a squad of Marines, its still not that impressive for something you can get elsewhere in the list for less points with much more durability (here's a hint, its the first thing in the Fast Attack Section and it begins with Storm and ends with Boyz).

Equipping the Bikes
They don't have many options, and what they do have is covered everywhere else. If you buy them, they probably want to get stuck in, since any casualties they inflict via their somewhat decent shooting will probably lead to them getting shot and wiped out by whatever else is close to your target.

The kit is straight forward - Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole. The Bosspole is arguable because you inflict a wound on an expensive unit with only a 4+ save, but to be honest sticking around after failing a fall back test is better than being completely dead then and there. If you have to ask why you're taking the Power Klaw over the Huge Choppa, you need to go re-read the other sections of the Takktica.

To be honest I feel bad rating them "Poor", but competitively speaking, they just are. Sure they can be used in a rewarding fashion in fun games, like most non-competitive options in the dex. They're somewhat cheap enough where a unit of 5 or 6 with a PK Nob and maybe bosspole can keep them around and its under 200 Points for the unit, which isn't too bad. Used right they can do good things though in some matchups they will not have any good targets to go up against.

Helping them be somewhat useful for fun
One way to alleviate the problems of this unit, which are mainly LD based is simply to throw a Warboss or special character into the unit. This probably leads to "overkill" in terms of damage output, because the Boss is so potent, and thus is probably better off on his own, but if you were looking for a way to use this Mob without having too much trouble because of the rules, this is one way around the problem.

Deff Koptas
Utility: Semi-Competitive

Ahh, something else good in the fast section! Granted these guys aren't the greatest thing in Fast Attack, but they do have their uses!

First off they're scouts and jet bikes. That alone is pretty neat for setting up a few first turn charges, except for the fact that the Koptas are saddled with some mediocre combat upgrades that almost double the cost of the model! Also consider the max mob size of 5 and their LD is 7 and you get the idea that having Deff Koptas in an assault with a unit with a Power Fist and you start to understand why assault may be a bad idea.

Of course they have some other uses too. They can be given twin linked rokkits for just 10 more points compared to a Rokkit Buggy, and they can be taken in units of 1, which really do make them good contenders for 'Last Turn Objective Grabbers'. The sad part is that with the current state of 40k Rules, T4(5) with 2W and a 4+ Armor Save is much more durable than an AV10 vehicle.

Additionally, using this option opens up some nice possibilities. In games where you can go first, you can use the Deff Koptas to scout up, and then move 12" into position to shoot TL Rokkits at Skimmers hiding behind terrain for turn 1, before they move. Granted this isn't always a sure-fire way to bring skimmers down, but it is a possibility for use.

Other than this, there are a few key words of wisdom for using the Koptas:

-Small units should be used for objective grabbing. One model should be fine for this as it bypasses the LD problems of the unit.
-Big units are needed if you're going to try for the turn 1 charge. Given the squad limitations I'd say a unit of 4 is probably optimal; however as Redbeard pointed out, a unit of 2 Koptas with one Buzzsaw could be used as a simple "charge and tie combat" unit for turn 1 charges that are mainly there to stop infantry from firing at you. A squad of 4 can take on harder targets but will likely wipe out what they charge which can be disadvantageous at times. Just be careful with the Squads of 2 as it'll take only 1 casualty to see something run off.
--Probably only one bike should have the Power Klaw as it gets expensive otherwise.
--Don't forget they have Hit and Run! Coordinating use of Hit and Run to tie up shooty squads that may struggle to hurt the Kopta in Close Combat is a great application for these guys! Devastators are a prime target for this kind of application.

The issue with the Koptas is that they're perfectly suited to say, killing a unit without a Power Fist or without a whole lot of hitting power in CC, like Marine tactical squads. The problem here is that a LOT of the lackluster Ork units fall into this category and the Koptas share all their LD problems. Though truth be told the Deth Koptas can do a few things most units in this category can't: Scout, and Hit & Run.

Equipping the Koptas

Twin Linked Big Shoota - Default weapon and thus the cheapest option. I recommend sticking with this if your Koptas don't plan to do anything but claim objectives at the end of a game. Additionally, if you're going to go for an assault style unit then this gun works out pretty nice to soften up infantry before a charge. It also helps cut costs since assault Kopta units are expensive and small by nature.

Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha - Probably the overall utility for the Kopta. Assigning a unit of these Fly Boyz to do some anti-tank work early on in the game is pretty straight forward and isn't a half bad idea. The points cost is higher than I'd like but its fair for what you get, a semi-reliable Rokkit shot on a maneuverable unit.

Kustom Mega Blasta - Avoid it like the plague!! You go to something that's only got one shot, is not twin linked, and it can hurt your Kopta. This thing has got "Bad Idea" written all over it. As a tank hunter, the TL Rokkit is more reliable and worth the paltry increase in cost to get it over the KMB. In terms of actually bringing AP2 to the list, its one shot with "gets hot" at BS2, this is a bad idea!

Big Bomm - I'm pretty "meh" on this upgrade. Its not the most reliable thing and its damage output isn't that great with just a S4 AP5 Pie Plate. I wouldn't mind taking it at the cost listed if it wasn't a single shot weapon. As it is, I just don't see it as worth while.

Buzzsaw - Power Klaws for Deff Koptas! Great right? Well not really. It costs a ton of points and its on a normal Boy who gets no benefit for having two CCWs, so you get 3 attacks on the charge at S7, and then 2 attacks at S6 after that. Granted the Koptas have Hit and Run so you can keep charging if needed, but I think that its an OK upgrade at best. They're good just like say Bikes - if you want to kill MEQs without Power Fists in the squad, a unit with a Buzzsaw in it can start wreaking havoc on turn 1 if things work out right for you.

Equipping your Koptas is dependent on what you want to do with them. For last turn objective grabbers, cheap ones work fine. Turn 1 assaulters want some punch and the Buzzsaw brings that. General utility says go for the Rokkits to hunt tanks if you feel you need that ability in your list. One thing is clear though, avoid the Kustom Mega Blasta!

Fast Attack Summary

Well we've got four units here, one clear winner in terms of direct power and one loser unit. Between them we have two units who may not be the best available choices, but definitely have their uses, even if in just a limited way, in a competitive Ork list.

The basic thing you need to realize when you look at the Fast Attack section is that Storm Boyz really are one of the strongest units in the Codex. To put it simply a somewhat cheap unit that can charge anywhere from 19-24" that has a lot of bodies, a lot of attacks, and a Hidden Power Klaw Nob is bad news for ANY target. These Boyz can take down vehicles in a pinch, they can preemptively charge big nasties like Flying Tyrants or Demon Princes, and they can enforce a healthy dose of area denial wherever you put them.

They are the premier counter assault unit in the codex and they should never be over looked when creating any kind of competitive list. With their speed and some tactical deployment, you should be able to use cover effectively and limit them from taking any incoming fire, getting them to charge when and where you need them. The tactical advantages they bring to your army list can not be denied.

The other choices like Buggies or Deff Koptas are decent but will require a lot more tactics and work to get mileage out of, but can be more rewarding - especially in friendly games. Bikes are also a unit on this level and barely misses the cut to be called "Semi-Competitive", but when used say in conjunction with a Boss on Bike or just used carefully they can be a decent unit to be used in friendly games. Just don't expect too much out of them or for them to be "tournament worthy" and you should do just fine with them if you put your head to it.

Unit Evaluation: Trukk Transports

Utility: Competitive

I didn’t really cover the deceptively humble Trukk in the Troops or Elites section where it can be taken as a dedicated transport and it is such a useful item in an Ork army that I feel it deserves its own unit evaluation.

The Trukk is still an AV10 Open Topped Fast Vehicle. This makes it a very good transport that can get units into combat pretty reliably when used in conjunction with Terrain. This gets even better in the new Codex with the new Waaagh rules giving Orks at least one fleet move in a game, making that turn you use the fragile Trukk to deliver your CC troops that much more effective, and it got an amazing boost with the new Ramshackle special rules.

Ramshackle basically makes it so that Orks are not automatically entangled when their Trukk gets blown up, not following the normal damage rules but instead taking a S3 hit for each model and a pinning test. What’s better is that even 1/3 of the time you won’t even suffer that and can potentially move closer to the enemy when shot. I won’t go through the specifics of the rule, but the gist of it is that 1/3 of the time you get blown up you roll a scatter dice and 3D6 to determine where and how far your truck moves before you take a pinning test and the S3 hits described above. The best part is that if you roll a ‘Hit’ for the scatter, you get to move the Trukk as you wish the distance rolled!

Equipping your Trukk
So given this incredible reliability that now comes with the basic Trukk, lets look at the options you have when setting up your Trukk:

-Rokkit Launcha: For a nominal amount of points you can upgrade the Trukk’s standard Big Shoota to a Rokkit. Personally, I don’t see this as worthwhile since the weapon exists solely as something that prevents “Weapon Destroyed” from becoming “Immobilized” on the damage chart. Save the points and move on to other things.

-Red Paint Job: Move an extra inch for free, for a small amount of points to boot. This upgrade is mandatory for any Trukk I take because when when you want to transport a unit into combat, that extra inch goes a mile! I can’t imagine a time I’d take a Trukk and NOT give it a Red Paint Job.

-Grot Riggers: What was once always taken on my Trukks will now get left behind. It does the same job for a little bit more points, but it does it in the shooting phase now, not before the movement phase like before, meaning you can’t save your bacon if your truck is stuck immobile somewhere waiting to deliver a squad.

-Stikkbomb Chukka: It gives your squad Grenades when charging out of the Trukk. This is useful for Nobz Mobz who can’t take grenades, but it only saves you 7 Points instead of taking Frags on your Boyz mob that can be transported in the Trukk if you fill up the max transport capacity of 12 Boyz. Still if you need to cut points from the list, dropping Frags and adding a Stikkbomb Chukka to a units Trukk is one way to do it.

-Armor Plates: Extra armor for Trukks! This was something I initially had on all my Trukks, but from a discussion with Dakka Member Redbeard, I'm going to be leaving it off. If you ever suffer something with just a "Stunned" result, this can keep your Trukk moving, but with AV10 and Open Topped, it's not something that's going to come up very often since if a Trukk is being shot at it is probably going to suffer a lot more damage. Still for the times when you're being shot with Bolters and are glanced, this upgrade may be worthwhile. I suggest playtesting with and without this upgrade before settling on what suits your playstyle better.

-Boarding Plank: One of the upgrades I just don’t see a whole lot of utility for. Embarked Troops can perform close combat attacks on an enemy vehicle within 2” if the ‘Wagon hasn’t moved more than 12” that turn. The problem is that most of the time you will have to get out to charge to even reach a vehicle controlled by a good player. I just don’t see it being very useful and the whole idea that if your Trukk can be seen while trying to make this attack it probably will get blown up next turn which is safer than it was before, but it’s never a good thing.

-Wreckin Ball: Another upgrade I’m not too thrilled about. If you move less than 12” you can make a S9 attack on a unit within 2” on a 4+. It’s OK vs. Vehicles if you can get it to go off, but how often will you be so close to an enemy vehicle to make it work? Likewise it’s still not that great vs. infantry units since it’s one hit that allows armor saves. And it’s pretty expensive to boot.

-Reinforced Ram: Cheap upgrade to re-roll dangerous terrain tests, which can be a godsend if you have to go through terrain. Personally I haven’t been throwing it on my Trukks in the KoS lists I’ve tested, but I may just start since I’ve had to go through terrain to make charges many times in the old KoS I used to run and having this would have saved me from many losses I suffered because a truck couldn’t get a charge off and immobilized itself when it was forced to cut through terrain.

Trukk Summary

The Trukks I’ve been using come out to a paltry 50 Points using Red Paint and Armor Plates. You could make them a bit more expensive with a Reinforced Ram and/or a Stikkbomb Chukka, but then they start to become even more expensive. Personally I see Reinforced Ram as the only really compelling option to add, but a case could be made for either combination. It’s also arguable if Armor Plates are worth it, or for the same cost you could drop Armor Plates and add both the Reinforced Ram and the Stikkbomb Chukka, which is another viable build for the Trukk.

The end of it is, if you’re using your Trukks properly, they’re not getting shot at until they’ve delivered their payload, so in the end if you’re confident you will have enough terrain to hide behind on a table or you’re taking a bunch of screening units for the Trukks, then the second combo of Red Paint, Reinforced Ram, and Stikkbomb Chukka may be the better option for you. If you’re going to go balls to the wall style and run your Trukks out there and dare your opponent to stop them all, then the first option is probably best. Though to be honest, it’s probably not a good idea to go for the target overload approach unless your opponent has a serious lack of firepower in his army.

Per some discussion with Dakka Member Redbeard I will start playtesting my Trukks without Armor Plates and with the Reinforced Ram instead, since it's very true that the time when you're only suffering from Crew Stunned is rare indeed.

Unit Evaluation: Heavy Support
Battlewagon
Utility: Competitive

This entry right here is something special for the Orks, because it’s both a source of competitive advantage in some tournament armies (when built a specific way) and in other ways it’s the key to using Poor units effectively in friendly games.

BTW, in case you were wondering, all your old 3rd Edition “Looted Tanks” want to use this entry to “Count-As” in the new rules.

Evaluating the Battlewagon is pretty hard because of the duality of its uses. On one hand, it’s a pretty nice tank with good anti-troop (including anti-MEQ) firepower that can be expensive when kitted out this way. On the other hand it’s still a tracked vehicle, and those units are just generally not worth it in 4th Edition 40k Competitive Armies.

The end of the debate for me, putting the Battlewagon firmly in the “Competitive” category was the fact that they’re useful in the context of a competitive army. They’re easily one of the best Heavy Choices and against MEQ’s they’re a pretty damn good tank, drawing fire from the rest of the army and putting out good firepower. They can also be used to devastating effect screening Trukks to get critical assaults off. I can’t see taking a KoS style army and not including Battlewagons for this reason.

Now it should be stated that while this unit is definitely “Competitive”, there are bad options for this tank and they need to be handled with care. They’re not Falcons or even Hammerheads in terms of survivability, but they are good and can be used properly to secure a victory for the Waaaagh.

Equipping the Battlewagons

Equipping your ‘Wagon is based very much on the task you want to set out before it. Do you want a cheap screen for trucks? Do you want to transport 20 Boyz somewhere? Do you want to Transport only 12 Boyz somewhere? Do you want a main battle tank that can dish out firepower galore?

These are the questions you need to ask yourself when you think about taking a battlewagon. Just slapping some of the many options together and putting it on the table will likely result in failure. The key here is to pick a task and then equip the wagon accordingly. Of course there are some options that should always be taken and some that should always be avoided.

-Killkannon: It’s a limited version of the Battlecannon: 24” S7 AP3 Pie plate. It won’t instant kill characters, and it’s short ranged, but you can move and fire this sucker. Obviously, if you want a BattleWagon that’s a Main Battle Tank that will kill just about anything it shoots at; this is the upgrade for you.

-‘Ard Case: Close the top of the Battlewagon. I consider this almost mandatory for Main Battle Tank ‘Wagons, bad for Transport Wagons. It could be argued that if you want to transport a shooty unit, then this upgrade is pretty good for a Transport Wagon, but for the most part any shooty unit should probably be on foot anyway.

-Deff Rolla: Some people go on and on about this upgrade and I can’t honestly see why. Sure it lets you re-roll difficult terrain tests for the tank, and it can do D6 S10 hits when tank-shocking (or 2D6 when someone death or glories), but I just don’t see it being that useful vs. a knowledgeable opponent. First off, the Tank Shock hits allow armor saves, so honestly who cares if it’s S10, after it went above S8, it doesn’t matter since you can maybe do some casualties, but not a whole lot to matter. It’s not bad vs. AV13 vehicles, but you can’t tank shock what S10 would help against that Orks have problems with: AV14 Vehicles. So unless you plan on getting your Battlewagon to the other side of the table to tank shock a predator, it’s not going to be all that worth it. For what it does, I see it as too expensive and not that useful. You shouldn’t get near any tank you’d want to tank shock, and unless you’re fighting other Orks or maybe horde Nids, then the hits from Tank Shocks aren’t that great.

-Red Paint Job: Move an extra inch for free, for a small amount of points to boot. For ANY ‘Wagon, this is an almost mandatory upgrade for me. When you want to shoot your 24” Killkannon you can move 7” and fire, which is crucial to getting range. When you want to transport a unit into combat, that extra inch goes a mile! I can’t imagine a time I’d take a Battlewagon and NOT give it a Red Paint Job.

-Grot Riggers: More expensive this time around and not as good as they were before. Now they work in the shooting phase instead of at the start of the turn to re-mobilize an immobile vehicle. Still, it’s relatively cheap and if you’re taking it on a Heavy Support Battlewagon, especially a Main Battle Tank that is a Scoring Unit, I would always take them. In the first game I played with a Battlewagon they re-mobilized me on Turn 5, which let me move the Tank to score on an objective on Turn 6. I wouldn’t take this on Dedicated Transport Battlewagons though, since they’re not scoring and once they can’t move, they’re essentially dead anyway.

-Stikkbomb Chukka: Basically if you charge out of the Battlewagon, you count as having Frags. Critical for transporting say Burna Boyz or Nobz, but not so useful for just about anything else. It’s cheap, but I think maybe a little too expensive for what it does. If you’re going to use the Wagon as a dedicated Transport for Nobz it’s worth it, but not for Mega Nobz. Boyz in the Wagon it’s arguable since it’s cheaper than giving the whole squad Frags.

-Armor Plates: Extra Armor for Orks! This is one of the upgrades I would always take on a Battlewagon regardless of its mission in life. It keeps your transports moving, and your scoring units moving. Critical for staying alive or delivering cargo.

-Boarding Plank: One of the upgrades I just don’t see a whole lot of utility for. Embarked Troops can perform close combat attacks on an enemy vehicle within 2” if the ‘Wagon hasn’t moved more than 12” that turn. The problem is that most of the time you will have to get out to charge to even reach a vehicle controlled by a good player. I just don’t see it being very useful.

-Wreckin Ball: Another upgrade I’m not too thrilled about. If you move less than 12” you can make a S9 attack on a unit within 2” on a 4+. It’s OK vs. Vehicles if you can get it to go off, but how often will you be so close to an enemy vehicle to make it work? Likewise it’s still not that great vs. infantry units since it’s one hit that allows armor saves. And it’s pretty expensive to boot. For 10 Points more you can get a Deff Rolla if you really wanted to get up close and personal with your Battlewagons.

-Grabbin Klaw: Well here’s something that will make Skimmers sad! Get within 2” of a ‘Wagon with this and on a 4+ in the Movement phase, the enemy vehicle can’t move the next turn! The pay off here vs. Falcons and the like is absolutely huge, but honestly it’s something your opponent has to fall for and it’s not that great since your Wagons can be avoided by most vehicles in the game that this would be useful against! Still, if I have extra points when making a list and I need to buy something, I’ll put some Grabbin Klaws on my Battlewagons.

-Reinforced Ram: Cheap upgrade to re-roll dangerous terrain tests. Only 25% of the cost of the Deff Rolla, so if you want a Transport ‘Wagon, this is your upgrade!

-Kannon: Oh look, you can take a Kannon on your Battlewagon! Except it’s one shot and you’re BS2. And it’s no better than a Rokkit except for range and the option for a crappy blast template! Still if you’re looking for a cheap gun to put on a Transport Wagon so that the first “Weapon Destroyed” result doesn’t immobilize your vehicle, this isn’t a bad choice.

-Lobba: One must ask why you’d put this pretty crappy weapon on a Battlewagon. It’s only “good” in artillery because you can fire it indirectly at enemy troops, in groups of 3 for a barrage. And they somehow thought it was good enough to be more expensive than the Kannon upgrade. Avoid this bad idea like the plague.

-Zzap Gun: Once the Zzap Gun no longer auto-hit and the 2D6 penetration rules are gone, it stopped being very good. It’s being fired by a BS2 Vehicle, it’s not worth it compared to say the Kannon if you want a big gun on the tank that you have to roll to hit for using your Ballistic Skill.

-Big Shootas: You can have up to 4 of these things on the Wagon, and they’re not fired by the embarked crew anymore! They’re pretty cheap for what you get, so if you wanted to build say a very cheap AV14 Dakka Wagon it’s not the worst idea in the world anymore. I don’t see this as a competitive option, other than being the absolute cheapest “gun” you can throw on a Transport Wagon to prevent “Weapon Destroyed” from becoming “Immobilized”.

-Rokkit Launchas: Twice the price of the Big Shoota upgrade (which still isn’t that many points) you get a Rokkit to shoot. You can take up to 4 of these on your Wagon, but you have to stay still in order to fire all of them. Because it’s the same points cost as a Kannon big gun, I can honestly recommend staying away from this upgrade. You almost always want to be moving your wagon to fire, and you need to move to get units within the 24” range of this Gun. So you can effectively only take one Rokkit if you want to move and fire, and at the same points cost the admittedly crappy Kannon is a better buy because of the increased range.

As you can see that’s a lot of options! I hope that the breakdown here gives you a good idea of what you should and should not take on your wagons depending on what you want your wagons to do. Just remember this one guiding factor when it comes to building your Battlewagon: Remember the job you want and do not get bogged down throwing random upgrades on the thing! Keep it as cheap as you can while still giving it the tools it needs to get the job done – nothing more!

Recommended Configurations!

Since the Codex did such a terrible job of giving three example configurations of a Battlewagon, I figured I’d put down my three favorite configs:

1.) Main Battle Tank – 185 Points
Killkannon, ‘Ard Case, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates

2.) Transport ‘Wagon - 120 Points
Red Paint Job, Armor Plates, Big Shoota, Reinforced Ram

3.) Trukk Screener: 110 Points
Red Paint Job, Armor Plates

Viable Transport Combos

One thing to note here before we go into specific units is that even though you would be tempted to take 12 or less Boyz and realize you can transport them in a Killkannon Battlewagon. I recommend not transporting units in a Killkannon wagon for a couple reasons. First off it makes the ‘Wagon much more expensive and once you’re transporting a unit 99% of the time you’re going to want the Tank to be open topped. The base points for a Killkannon wagon is 150 Points, before you add any kind of upgrades on the thing that you’re going to want. That’s a lot of points for a tank that’s going to get +1 to the damage results when it does get hurt.

It also makes the tank that much more of a target and you’re tempted to not move the tank the full distance to transport them so that you can fire the Killkannon. This makes for a bad combination, since if you get one round of firing off and the tank gets gimped, you’re looking at a much longer footslog to the enemy with your transported squad.

The idea here is that if you’re going to transport something - do it all the way. Your goal is to limit shots on the ‘Wagon till you can deliver the payload and then you can worry about doing something else with it. Combining two functions into an expensive and somewhat fragile package is not a good idea.

Also remember that the rules that apply to the new Trukks do not apply to Battlewagons. If you get penetrated while moving fast, you will likely lose 75% of your Boyz being transported unless they’ve got some kind of an armor or FNP save. Taking Boyz in a Wagon as a transport is a risk, far more than taking them in

Now that I’ve stated some general advice, let’s get into specifics. One of the things that I want to cover here in this section are the different kinds of squads that one would want to take a Battlewagon for a transport. Some of these ideas are good and some are bad.

1.) Burna Boyz – This is the squad that could, if only they could take a Trukk to get them into assaults or up close. So while they can’t take a Trukk, they can get in a Battlewagon which works almost as well for delivering this expensive but hard hitting squad. In my opinion the Battlewagon is the only way to make Burna Boyz worth it as an Elites choice, but even then the combo isn’t good enough to make me want to take it competitively.

2.) Slugga Boyz – To be fair about it, there is something to be said about getting a delivery of 20 Slugga Boyz w/ PK Nob into combat. It’s devastating when it works and it’s not a terrible amount of points for the combo, and it keeps your deployment less cluttered and it “protects” 20 Boyz from small arms shooting.

There is a problem here though. For the “optimal” load outs (which is 20 Sluggas, with only a PK Nob + Bosspole with the above Transport ‘Wagon) you could get 20 Storm Boyz w/ PK Nob & Bosspole for the same cost or pay 44 Points more and get two units of 12 Boyz in a Trukk w/ PK Nob & Bospole. Once you consider these options, you start to understand why this combo isn’t all that efficient over other fast CC options available elsewhere in the list, and unlike Burnas you don’t get anything special with this squad you can’t get elsewhere with the aforementioned options.

3.) Nobz & MegaNobz – These guys make it exceptionally tempting to take a Battlewagon Transport because they can both take one as a dedicated transport that doesn’t use up a heavy slot! And that Wagon can’t take a Killkannon, so it follows my advice about dedicating yourself to working as a transport, so it must be a good idea right?

Wrong.

First off, if you take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport, it’s not a scoring unit, and as you will find out they’re an expensive proposition no matter how you look at it, and they don’t bring a whole lot of firepower to the table either to make them worth their cost.

Second off, these two units can both take a Trukk as a dedicated transport, which is about half the cost of the Battlewagon when kitted out right and it offers a lot more speed and amazingly more protection if you do get shot and take damage because of the Trukks Ramshackle special rule.

4.) Shoota Boyz – Now this is one special case unit that I can see being pretty good in a Battlewagon, unlike their Slugga counterparts. The idea here is that you can take a Battlewagon, zoom up 13”, disembark, and start shooting on turn 1, giving your opponent 20 Orks w/ PK Nob to deal with right off the bat. This isn’t a terribly bad idea and it gives you an application for the Wagon that can be used right at the start and it only needs to be able to move for one turn in order to be effective – making it much easier to use and get results from. Taken three times over, it could give you a good model count for your Boyz while at the same time keeping you from deploying and moving a horde up the table. It’s vulnerable if you can’t hide all your stuff on turn 1 from opponents like Tau or Necrons, but for the most part it’s probably not a bad application of a Transport Wagon.

5.) Tankbustas – The other elite unit that’s probably not worth taking for a variety of reasons, but becomes somewhat useful when combined with a Battlewagon. By taking a Battlewagon and disembarking from the side you can screen your own LOS arcs to ensure you can target what you want with your unit. This is also a case where you could argue for a closed top transport ‘Wagon since disembarking from the side is a good idea with this unit. It’s also a case where you could make a weak argument to take them in tandem with a Killkannon ‘Wagon, since you probably won’t take more than 12 of these Boyz in the unit and they can work well together somewhat. I still don’t think that this is an optimal configuration, but if you want to try something for fun, I can see some skill making it work against other suboptimal lists in friendly games.

6.) Flash Gitz – Another Nob option that isn’t all that great on its own that can be made somewhat better using a Battlewagon. Much like the Shootas their primary goal is to get out and shoot, so a closed top isn’t a bad idea. Likewise their small mob size and 24” shooting range means that combining them with a Killkannon wagon is not a bad idea at all. The trick to using that will be the fact that you can move the ‘Wagon up 7” and fire like normal, but you can disembark the Gitz on the side of the tank (screening them from some shooting) and open up on a target 24” away with your D6 AP guns. Again, just like the Shoota Boyz, this is a combo that can be done on Turn 1, meaning that you don’t need your Wagon to spend a turn potentially being shot at for it to work out well and execute what you need done. Granted this is certainly not the most optimal combination in the codex, but boy does it take two fun units (that also can look awesome if converted right) and make them work in friendly games. I know that I personally will run this combo for my army in friendly games when I want to use the new Flash Gitz I’m converting.

7.) The final combination I can think of for Wagons is not a very good one. The idea is using it as a firing platform for Lootas. By keeping it open topped, you can park it as an AV14 bunker for Lootas to shoot from. Granted you can’t move and fire from there, but it could be useful against armies without a lot of AV14 busting capability, but those armies are few and far between. You’re still looking at an open topped AV14 vehicle that has to sit out in LOS without moving to perform it’s function – this is a very bad application for a Wagon, although you could do it with just the cheapest Wagon possible it’s probably not a good idea.

I think that’s about as much as I can say for the Battlewagons, covering just about any kind of unit you could possibly throw into one. Hopefully this lengthy section has been useful and given you insight to ways you could use a Wagon in your army competitively or even just in friendly games.

Deff Dread
Utility: Poor*

It’s such a shame to see that the Dread got no love going from the Old Codex to the new one. He’s gotten an extra attack, but his gun options went through the roof! And to be blatantly honest, he pales in comparison to the little brother the Killa Kanz.

One thing to remember is that no matter what you do, you’re dealing with a pretty expensive BS2 Walker that’s AV12. This thing will never be hard to neutralize unless you take a LOT of armored targets. The upside is that in the new Codex, you can take a lot of armored targets!

*Special Considerations
The utility of the Dread could be upgraded to Semi-Competitive based on the fact that you can take him as a troops choice by taking a Big Mek HQ choice. As a Heavy Choice, he is pretty poor, but the fact that you can get him as a decently survivable Troops choice for a cheap amount of points (if kitted right) then it’s not a bad idea if you’re looking to max out on other areas of the FOC.

Equipping your Dread
Well you have to figure out what you want your dread to do before equipping him.

You can go all assault, which is risky since it needs to see combat to survive, which is hard to do with a unit that moves 6” a turn and doesn’t start on the table in escalation, which is pretty expensive, or you can throw guns on there to shoot at BS2. Granted you can buy two guns, and they don’t count as Twin-Linked, so it’s not bad, but you need to decide what you want as you must take two of the following options to field a legal Dread:

-Big Shoota: Cheapest option. Not the greatest since you can get lots of dakka elsewhere in the list, but if you want a dead cheap dread, this is the way to go.

-Rokkits: Again twice the cost of the Big Shoota, but with two shots and the fact that you can move and fire both guns, you get something pretty decent here and Orks need all the Anti-Tank fire they can get.

-Kustom Mega Blasta: This is the most expensive gun, but it’s also the best. It’s effectively a Rokkit with AP2 and because the Dread is a Vehicle it gets to ignore any pesky Gets Hot rolls that otherwise make the gun suck for Ork infantry.

-Skorcha: Well it’s as cheap as the Big Shoota, but you have to get close to use it. I just don’t like Heavy Flamer options on Dreads unless they’re going in a Drop Pod, and since Orks don’t get Drop Pods, I don’t like it on the Deff Dread. This is one upgrade that should be avoided at all costs.

-Extra DCCW: Same cost as the Kustom Mega Blasta, but only effective in CC. It gives you a boatload of attacks if you take two, which at S10, I3, and ignoring armor saves, is pretty good. Still it’s expensive and only useful if you make it to assault and if you’re going to spend that many points on the dread, the better option is potentially the KMB. Pretty good to go all assault in a Cityfight game though.

Options:

-Grot Riggers: Pretty cheap and they can re-mobilize you in the shooting phase, which means you don’t get to move the turn you get fixed. This reason makes me want to ignore taking them. I won’t throw these on a dread till after I’ve run out of other places in the list to spend points.

-Armor Plates: While being twice the cost of Grot Riggers I think this is one of the “always take” options for the dread. In case of being stunned, which is pretty common, you get to keep moving. This gets you into assaults and gets you behind terrain if you’re in danger. It is moderately expensive on what is an AV12 target, so I can see an argument for not taking it, but if you’re committing to taking a dread, you may as well give it as many chances of being useful as possible.

Killa Kanz
Utility: Competitive

Well talk about making some changes from the last codex, Kanz are piloted by Grots! This brings some inherent advantages and not a whole lot of disadvantages. The big plus is that you didn’t lose any armor or attack values, and you’re now BS3! Granted the Kanz are only WS2 now, but you’ll still hit WS4 troops on a 4+, which is mainly what these guys should be going after.

Because of these changes, these guys make for some pretty good fire support units. No morale tests to worry about, moderate survivability, and they can hold their own in CC.

Equipping the Kanz

-Big Shoota: The cheapest gun, and honestly I feel it’s a waste here. The goal of the Kanz is fire support and if there’s one thing you don’t need in a properly built Ork army is more anti-infantry shots.
-Rokkits: Three times the cost of the Big Shoota, but it brings somewhat accurate anti-tank fire. Honestly, with move and fire, the ability to ignore target priority checks, and BS3, this seems like a great option until you see….

-Kustom Mega Blasta: For 5 points more than a Rokkit, you get what amounts to the same thing with AP2. Given that Orks have little to no good ranged armor ignoring weapons, and the fact that the KMB is now S8, you get all the goodness of the Rokkit with the ability to knock some 2+ Save units out too. Granted it’s 5 points more per Kan to upgrade, but you have to ask yourself, is it worth 5 Points to go from AP3 to AP2? I feel it is, but it’s not going to be the same for everyone depending on how they build their list. Answer that question for yourself and you will know how to arm your Kanz.

-Skorcha: Look a heavy flamer on a walker with the highest Ballistic Skill in your army! Avoid like the plague!

-Grotzooka: A new weapon for the new codex and a new option to ignore. A S5 small blast template that’s double the cost of the Big Shoota. It’s got two shots, but I see the same kind of thing that was said about the big shoota being applicable here. You don’t need more anti-infantry shots in an Ork army, and not on the most reliable unit with BS3 in the list.

Obviously I’m feeling that the Anti-Tank weapons here are your best bet for fire support. The Kanz are your most reliable BS3 unit in the army. Your biggest question is if its worth the points to upgrade to AP2 on your anti-tank guns or not. The choice of what you should probably be taking for your ranged gun is relatively clear: Rokkits or Kustom Mega Blastas.

Options:

-Grot Riggers: Pretty cheap and they can re-mobilize you in the shooting phase, which means you don’t get to move the turn you get fixed. This reason makes me want to ignore taking them. I won’t throw these on a dread till after I’ve run out of other places in the list to spend points.

-Armor Plates: While being twice the cost of Grot Riggers I think this is one of the “always take” options for the dread. In case of being stunned, which is pretty common, you get to keep moving. This upgrade is especially important for Kanz because they’re fielded in Squadrons, and if one gets Shaken and can’t move, it gets destroyed if the other Kanz in the Squadron move away from it. This keeps them all moving till ones dead or immobilized. I’d put it on my “always taken with Kanz” list.

Extra Advice

Kanz are best fielded in squadrons. Like unit sizes even numbers are better than odd because of the scoring unit rules. Because of this always try to maximize the use of your FOC slots. If you’re going to take 6 Kanz, take 3 units of 2 if you can help it. Likewise, if you’re going to field 3 Kanz, take a unit of two and a unit of one. Fielding 9 Kanz is inefficient in terms of scoring unit sizes but it gives you the maximum durability for the unit. And for an army it’s is pretty appealing and when combined with a horde style list I think it is a pretty good choice.

Flash Gitz
Utility: Poor

Right off the bat I’m going to state that if you’re looking for something competitive, these guys aren’t it. They’re a very interesting unit but they cost way too much for what they do and they’re easily neutralized. That said; they’re a very interesting unit with a lot of options so I will dedicate some space to them. If you’re not interested in ways to make a mediocre unit work in friendly games, skip this section.

Sadly these guys are another unit of seemingly hard to kill Orks that are saddled with terrible LD problems that ensure that once you do lose some of these very expensive models, you’re going to take a LD test, fail, and they’ll be gone for good. And because of their high cost and max unit size of 10, they can’t really benefit from the special Ork LD rules.

This all said, out of all the Ork units that suffer from this problem, Flash Gitz are probably the most useful of these units in terms of what they bring to your army, though they do cost an arm and a leg to do it.

Here’s what they do: They have D6 AP on their guns. To start with they’re Assault 1, S5, 24”. So what you’re looking at is something that can move and fire some potentially devastating shots, depending on what you roll for the squads AP value. The problem is that they’re BS2 and only one shot!

Additionally these guys are Nobz with ‘Eavy Armor, so in terms of survivability they’re pretty good (for an Ork), especially if you give them the Painboy option, which should always be taken to give the unit the Feel No Pain Special Rule.

Equipping the Gitz

The Gitz have three upgrade options for their guns, which can be combined in any way for the unit to give them a custom gun setup. They all cost the same amount of points to upgrade, and of course some upgrades are better than others, so lets review:

-More Dakka: This is by far the best upgrade you can give to Flash Gitz. They’re only BS2 and with only 1 shot on their guns, it’s not going to do a whole lot. By increasing their guns to Assault 2 with no downside and the same points cost as the rest of the upgrades, you’re looking at something that should always be taken if you’re considering Flash Gitz as a unit.

-Shootier: This increases the strength of the gun to S6, which means you’re wounding most things on 2’s. Personally I see this as the least taken upgrade since the draw with the Gitz is that you’re getting D6 AP, and with S5 you’ve got the strength to put wounds on a unit already. As a single upgrade it pales in comparison to More Dakka and if you wanted to throw it in combination with More Dakka you almost have to ask yourself why you’d want to for the points cost involved.

-Blastas: Well this one is tempting in the same manner that juggling hand grenades would be: Dangerous as hell but boy would it look cool! This gives you -1 to the roll for your AP value on your guns but adds the “Gets Hot!” special rule. When combined with the More Dakka upgrade which is almost mandatory for the unit, you have a better chance of wounding yourself than you do of wounding the enemy with your shooting. Of course with a 4+ armor save and Feel No Pain if you took the Painboy (and you should) I can see this being somewhat tempting as 75% of the time you do take a wound, it’s saved, it’s still expensive and dangerous to yourself. I can see taking it for a laugh, because it makes the unit more interesting, but if I wanted to “make Flash Gitz work” then I’d avoid the upgrade. Of course if you’re playing competitively you’re probably not taking Flash Gitz anyway, so this might not be such a bad upgrade if you are going to use them for fun.

Now that we’ve covered their guns options, lets look at what else you can take:

-Ammo Runts: You can take up to three of these guys which will let you re-roll a single miss on your to hit rolls. Their points cost isn’t that high, but again it’s more stuff for an already expensive unit. One thing can be said for certain if you’re looking at these guys: If you’re taking Blastas and More Dakka on your guys, buy the ammo runts, since it can save you from an overheat. Other than that, it’s really your call if you want to blow points on this upgrade or not.

-Painboy: For a decent amount of points you can have one of your models in the unit give up his heavy armor, snazzgun, and git finda to be a Painboy. Why do this for what probably amounts to double the cost of the base model (if you took a gun upgrade)? Well he gives you two things: Feel No Pain and the ability to take Cybork Body for the entire mob. To be blatantly honest, he’s worth it for Feel No Pain alone, and if you wanted to make the unit more of a points sink you could give them the Cybork Body upgrade, but it’s probably not worth it. Still, I would never take Flash Gitz without a Painboy in the unit, the added resilience of Feel No Pain is too good to pass up.

-Cybork Body: Arguably Cybork Body could make them more resilient against AP4 shooting, which is what will mainly be directed at the unit, but it’s a lot of points to upgrade an already very expensive model. Still, I can see some people taking it for fun.

Special Character
One unit of Flash Gitz in an army be led by Kaptin Badrukk, for a whole boatload of points.

Basically with this guy, you’re almost buying another Warboss, albeit one with only two wounds, but still he’s not a bad addition to the unit if you wanted to blow a ton of points in one spot. He gives you LD9, which I feel is his main draw, since it eliminates the Morale problem of the Gitz. His second draw is his gun, which is more like playing Russian Roulette than it is firing a weapon in 40k. It’s an Assault 3, S7 AP2 gun with the Gets Hot special rule. So basically you REALLY have a higher chance of wounding yourself than you do actually hitting the enemy, let alone hitting and wounding the enemy (he overheats on a roll of 1-3, hitting the enemy on a 5 or 6). Still, he comes with 3 Ammo Runts that let you re-roll some of his shooting, which is in addition to the 3 you can already take for the unit. Additionally he has a 3+ Armor save, so when you combine that with the fact that with a Painboy you’re looking at the prospect that he’s going to take a wound 1/6th of the time when he does overheat.

To be honest, I’m not sure how worth it Badrukk is. If you’re taking Flash Gitz you’re probably not being competitive in the first place, and he REALLY makes the unit a points sink that’s pretty easy to kill for your opponent, but boy I’m sure he’ll be great for a laugh if you do use him with some More Dakka+Blastas Flash Gitz.
The final thing that can be said for the Gitz is that they can be used pretty well with a Killkannon Battlewagon with an ‘Ard Case. This doesn’t make them even Semi-Competitive, but if you were looking for a way to use them intelligently, this is the way to be. See the Battlewagon entry for more details if you missed it.

Big Gunz
Utility: Poor

Ahh the Artillery made it into the new Codex, and despite the fact that they’re buffed because of Grots now having BS3 they’re still a terrible choice to field because of the slowed Artillery rules which make them very easy to kill. This combined with the natural low leadership of Orks, T2 of Grots, and the idea that if a stiff breeze even comes near an Big Gunz emplacement that it’ll go away makes it a very unappealing choice.

The only benefit the unit has is that it’s cheap and it’s somewhat accurate for Ork shooting possibilities. A unit of three of even the most expensive big Gunz with a Runtherd to give them a staggering LD7 will come in only at 100 Points, and it’s even less for other Big Gunz.

Still with only LD7 at best it’s not going to be good to select the best targets that aren’t already the closest of their kind that you want to shoot, and they’ll run when they take their first 25% casualties, which isn’t hard to do with only T2 as the majority toughness. Sure you can re-roll because of the Squighound, but then you’re losing D3 Grots to do it, and if you’ve taken shooting casualties, you’re going to be looking at having lost a good amount of grots from shooting and then more from having the re-roll. You can buy up to 6 additional crew members, but it’s still not that great for what you get.

The only good thing I can think of with them is you can take a cheap battery of Lobbas which can hide and claim a table quarter in Cleanse, while not being shot all game. That said, lets go through the three types of Guns available.

-Kannons: The default and cheapest option. It’s a Rokkit with 36” Range or a Frag missile with also 36” range. Whoopty do. The best you can hope for is a good round of shooting at BS3, with some ammo runts if you purchased them. With only S8 it’s not bad, but still nothing all that spectacular. It is very cheap though, but even at the tiny cost I can think of other places to spend the points.

-Lobbas: The second cheapest option is not terrible for what it costs, but it doesn’t do a whole lot. It can fire indirectly, so you negate the survivability and LD problems of the unit, but all you’re looking at is 1 to 3 S5 AP5 small blast templates firing as a barrage. It does cause pinning, but it’s still not all that great.

-Zzap Guns: The most expensive gun is still pretty cheap, but it’s no where near what it was last edition. It’s range increased to 36” but it lost the 2D6 Penetration bonus! It’s still got a random strength and AP2, and if you roll above 10 for the strength you still lose a grot as a casualty, but now the shot is fired anyway at S10. The biggest loss is that it no longer auto-hits, but at least it can shoot at long range now which is somewhat of a plus. Still it’s not very good compared to other options you could have when selecting shooting units in the Ork Codex.

To be honest, this is one of the poorest units in the Codex. There aren’t any compelling ways to use this entry and even then their application isn’t all that great. The only good thing I can say about them is that in a horde shooty list, they can provide some support to your list while either drawing fire that could be directed at your Boyz. Still there are better ways to spend the points in a horde than on these Gunz.

Looted Wagon
Utility: Poor

And here we have one of the most useless entries in the book. If this was supposed to be the entry that let players use their old Looted Tanks to “Counts As” a Looted Wagon, they sure did a poor job. Old looted tanks should “Counts As” a Battlewagon with Killkannon and nothing else. If anything, if there were players who liked fielding really crappy unit options from the old Ork codex, then this is the entry for you.

The first thing you’ll notice is that this is an Open Topped Rhino that takes a breakdown test. You roll a dice for each Looted Wagon in your army each turn and on a 1 you zoom forward the maximum possible distance.

It has a myriad of options like the Battlewagon Entry and I’m not going to cover each of them since almost anything you could say about them in that entry is applicable here.

The only “draw” to the Wagon is that you can field it with a Boom Gun, which is a 36” S8 AP3 Pie Plate. The problem here is that this pie plate is mounted on an AV11 vehicle that can not be relied upon to always do what you want it to do. It comes together pretty cheaply when kitted out, but think about this as an opponent, if you see an AV11 vehicle with a 36” Battlecannon on it, how high does it rate on your target priority list? Even the most modest anti-tank firepower will neutralize the Looted Wagon and even the most careful deployment by the Ork player can be ruined if you roll a 1 and zoom forward, exposing your AV11 vehicle to shooting AND preventing you from firing your Boomgun in the process!

Likewise, it’s not a very fast vehicle, being a normal tank that with Red Paint can run around at 13” a turn maximum. Another “tempting” option is that it can take a Grabbin Klaw to try and nail skimmers, but with AV11 and at best a closed top, it can hardly be relied upon for that job.

And the final potential use of the Looted Wagon is as a Transport, except it is an epic failure here almost more than in the other two possible areas of use for the unit. It’s only barely more survivable than a Trukk but it doesn’t bring the amazing Ramshackle rules with it. At least the Battlewagon brings the AV values of a Leman Russ to make it tempting to use as a transport, but the Looted Wagon is just at terrible choice for a transport, offering none of the durability of the Battlewagon and none of the speed or reliability of a Trukk, all while costing the same amount of points as a Trukk and taking a heavy support slot.

This is honestly the worst unit in the Codex and I can’t imagine how someone in Games Development could honestly look at the entry and imagine someone using this unit. It literally has no application in the list other than potentially being something cheap to draw fire from other units and present the threat of being a Battlecannon.

While this sounds good on paper, you can do the same thing with much better results with a Battlewagon with Killkannon.

Heavy Support Summary

There really are only two units in contention for being “good” in this section, which is rather sad, but out of the two options you can get a surprising amount of variety.

Battlewagons have a myriad of uses, so much so that it’s evaluation takes up more space than almost any other in the Takktica. There is literally a ton of applications for this tank and many different configurations that you can take. When taking a Kult of Speed list based around Trukks for delivery, I see taking some Main Battle Tank style ‘Wagons with Killkannons to both draw fire and screen some units.

Conversely in a horde style list you want to deny your opponent any big targets with an AV value and high points cost that make their anti-tank guns actually do something effective. For this I’d consider taking Killa Kanz as they’re cheap, numerous, and provide good shooting support and a decent CC punch. The fact that you can take up to 9 in an army list is pretty good in terms on making them live long enough to achieve something effective. Plus they should draw fire from the horde of Boyz.

Other entries like Flash Gitz & Dreads aren’t very good but can make for interesting choices in fun games. Flash Gitz in a Killkannon Battlewagon is actually a pretty fun if way overcosted combination and a Deff Dread taken as a troops choice with a Big Mek HQ selection can make for a fun way to fill FoC requirements if you’re building a themed list.

Sadly you’re also looking at units like Big Gunz and Looted Wagons which are among the worst entries in the new Codex, with the Looted Wagon being an epic failure at almost any task you could try and put before it. At least Big Guns could be put down as an arguable unit choice in a horde list to draw fire or provide some support and target overload, but even then you’ll find it’s better to spend the points on more of already good support units like Lootas.

Unit Evaluation: HQ Special Characters

Unlike the Eldar Codex, Phil Kelly didn’t really give us any incredible special characters that are almost always better than the standard choices available. The choices we have bring their own benefits and weaknesses to the list and are pointed probably more than their worth most of the time. Still some of them allow for some very interesting changes to the Ork army list and in higher point games they can prove to be extremely valuable.

Given this, I’m not really going to give each character a Utility rating. They are something that is more of a grey area in the list in terms of how good they are and many times it’s very points dependant.

Ghazghkull Thraka

For a little more than the cost of 30 Boyz w/ a Power Klaw Nob with Bosspole you can take the Grandest Warboss known to all of Ork Kind. What you get here is a slightly beefed up Warboss in Mega Armor with some unique special rules.

First off we start with a giant loophole in the rules for Ghazgkull. He’s got a special rule that gives him +2 Attacks when charing instead of the usual +1. The problem here is that he wears mega armor, and as such gets no bonus attacks for charging, per the Universal Special Rules in the BGB. We can only guess that this is something that will change in 5th Edition, when it’s released. Go-Go GW Games Development!

Next off is the fact that Ghaz has 4 Wounds and is immune to instant death and he’s got an extra attack on his profile. This makes up for the fact that a normal Warboss in mega armor is pretty well gimped compared to one on foot or on a Bike. He still has less attacks in CC after charging than a normal boss will when equipped with a Power Klaw + Slugga though. Ghaz does have WS6 however, which is something over a normal Boss.

But none of this has anything to do with why Ghaz is so expensive and why he will be desired by Ork players. This lies in his Prophet of the Waaagh! Special rule.

When Ghaz calls the Waaagh, it replaces the normal Waaaagh rules in the book and a few extra things happen. Most notably all units count as having rolled a 6 for their fleet move. That’s the big one right there. After that you’re looking at some other benefits such as units not fleeing become fearless until the end of the opponents next turn, and likewise Ghazgkull’s saving throw becomes invulnerable for this period as well.

So while he costs a boatload of points, he has the power to turn a game around for the Ork player in a single shot, which is pretty substantial.

Personally I see him being most useful in Apocalypse games where his high points cost and the larger number of Boyz fielded can be more useful. Plus it probably would take a large apocalypse game to represent the amount of Boyz Ghaz probably has at his disposal anyway.

Mad Dok Grotsnik

The Good Doktor is back and he brings with him a mixed bag of abilities and special rules.

He is essentially a stock Warboss with ‘Eavy Armor except he’s only S4 and I3. What he does bring is the ability to join himself to any unit, which he confers the Feel No Pain ability to. The problem here is that he also makes the unit Fearless but makes them subject to being led around. They must always move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy, assaulting if possible. This brings with it a problem that it becomes extremely easy to lead the unit he is with around.

Granted this could be mitigated somewhat by putting him in a Trukk unit or a Battlewagon, where you can let him out more on your terms and get him stuck in where he’ll do damage with his mob of Boyz.

The other thing he brings to the army is that he allows any unit in the army to take Cybork Body for a certain cost per model (Guardsman -1 Point). This isn’t exactly a great ability and it’s not that great on normal Boyz, but it could be good for themed armies using say Mega Armored Nobz or something along those lines.

Because of his limitations and pretty high cost I see him as the weakest special character, but he could be pretty fun in a themed list.

Wazdakka Gutsmek

A Biker Boss Special Character, with some pretty unique special rules to boot!

Wazdakka is essentially a Warboss but with only I3 and S4, meaning his Power Klaw is only S8 (S9 on the charge) and he has no invulnerable save. He does come with Meks Tools, a Bosspole, and a Kustom Mega Blasta, but none of those are actually all that good. Because of this, in terms of being a Close Combat Killer, he is inferior to the standard Biker Warboss that can be built from the unit entry as detailed in the HQ section of this Takktica. However there are a few tricks and rules that Wazdakka has that make him appealing to Ork players.

The first ability that many people will notice is that he has a Dakkakannon on his Bike. This is an Assault 4 S8 AP4 gun that he can fire after Turbo boosting. Some people see this as some kind of godsend ability, but I’m thoroughly unimpressed. So he can Turbo Boost and shoot a 4 Shot gun at BS2, he needs an escort to not be the closest target to use his IC rules to full effect, and even with this gun he’s better off in combat killing troops than he is trying to get some S8 shots off. My point here is that to use this supposedly wonderful ability you need to buy him an escort that has to turbo around with him and essentially do nothing while he shoots a gun at BS2.

The real reason people will want Wazdakkka is because he’s “Da Biker Boss” and allows you to take Warbikes as Troops instead of Fast Attack. Now if you’ve read the Takktica you’ll know that Warbikes aren’t the best choice in the codex, but it is a relatively fun choice and makes for a hell of a themed list.

In summary he’s not that good but for themed armies or for some general hilarity he will be taken by some Ork players addicted to high-speed mayhem.

Old Zogwort

The Wierdboy Special Character, Zogwort is actually pretty good. He’s got a nifty ability that you can’t get anywhere else, is the most reliable Wierdboy you can take, and unlike Ghazgkull his points cost doesn’t break the bank.

He’s still pretty expensive, working out to be 60 Points more than a Warphead, but he will essentially never suffer the negative effects of an ‘Eadbang roll. Furthermore he is absolutely deadly to any enemy Independent Character within 18”. This is because he may replace any roll he gets for his psychic power with “Zogwort’s Curse” which forces a dice off between the Ork player and their opponent. If the Ork player rolls higher, the enemy IC is turned into a Squig that you must provide the model for. They have no wargear or special rules anymore, and count as infantry from that point forward.

Granted that will be hard to use sometimes, and it only works on IC’s not on any enemy model, so against things like Tyranids it’s going to be a waste, but at least it prevents you from suffering a ‘Ead Bang result.

Furthermore Zogwort has a poisoned staff that always wounds on a 2+, so if he’s in CC and you roll a 1-3 for his powers, he has a power weapon that always wounds on a 2+, not too shabby!

Likewise he’s a Warphead and can re-roll a result he doesn’t like, and can replace the power with his Curse power at will. So this is the only case where you can say that if you’re considering taking a Warphead for an HQ slot and have 60 Points to spend, it’s almost always better to take Zogwort if you can afford him. He’s the only case where this is true over a normal counterpart in the list, but his points cost is high enough where you have to think twice about taking him.

I like what you've got. Two things:

1) do you want to mention that the Warboss costs roughly the same as a Leman Russ? That's a little pricey for what he does unless used exteremely well. Assuming the reader is a tournament player that uses his army well, I think he's the better choice for an HQ, but I would make it a little more explicit that for not having a decent save, your warboss still costs more than a Termie Librarian, or Daemon Prince. In addition, perhaps some advice on when to take two, or barring two warbosses, what to take a secondary HQ. Obviously the value of varying HQ combos will only be revealed through play testing, but from what I've seen, I'd rather take a warboss and a mek than two of either.

2) Again, top players will realize this right away, but adding a line about how the warboss can turboboost might be a nice reminder. He's an IC and there's no reason not to abuse that, but there are times when you can hide hide him out of LOS to set up a charge in two turns. Used subtly, the warboss can even act similar to the concept of a "fleet in being," meaning that if you can pysch out an opponent, you're littel warboss can cause him to either move a shooty unit, or reinforce a flank with an expensive countercharge unit.

A great start, and I look forward to reading the rest!

Very good review, I wish I had the codex to be able to really examine your position.

It's nice to know that all HQ choices have their merit. I am rather interested to hear your opinions on the lackluster elite section (or so I have heard).

I'm trying my best not to mention specific points costs, in line with what Yakface is setting for the guidelines for the Ork discussions.

I'm writing up the Elites section next, which is going to be a real downer - things start to breakdown into (AWESOME vs. Sucks).

One of the goals I'm having is making sure that while pointing out the most effective options, that at least the somewhat decent choices are highlighted as great options to consider for friendly games.

I appreciate the feedback BTW. Thanks!

What about the painboss.  It can be hard to remember some times, but he gives his unit feel no pain.  You could have a super expensive unit with 30 ard boyz, a painboss, and a big mek with a kff following behind.  Necrons would be proud of that kind of staying power.  Arm them with sluggas/choppas for a unit that could take anything in this game.  The only thing giving that unit trouble is duel cheeze lash.  Heck that unit alone could probably take half of an ork opponents army single handedly.

You couldn't. There is no option to add him to a Boyz mob, nor does he have an entry in the HQ section (barring the named character).

He also makes that mob go around Khorne Bezerker style, so it can go chase fast enemy tanks all game. It's also a ton of points and takes up both HQ slots (probably best to leave them as Normal boyz and just throw the KFF mek in there).

Still, it's a fun unit, and I will get to it, but I definitely don't see it as something that's going to scream out "Take me!" to tourney players like other choices will.

Thanks for taking the time to write this. It's a great read.
I am going to have so much fun with this new list.

I never thought of Weird Boyz being _actually_ ld10. Hmmm. As in including Psychic tests/psychic hoods/mind war/etc.

I think the only knock on the Weird Boy is that it's possible a bike boss or Big Mek might be better uses of the 1-2 HQ selections. Other than that it seems like a perfectly reasonable use of points, even if using its other spells.

I have to say that the characterful HQ choices are a big #1 reason to have an interest in some kind of an Ork army.

Just a comment, you don't make any kind of a comparison of say a Bike Boss vs a Bike Nob both with PK, in terms of both effectiveness and points cost. Especially since Bike Nobs can be WS5 with the banner. But I appreciate you pointing out that the War Boss is just pure S10 T6 turbo boosting IC and big and nasty killing.

While I agree that the Big Choppa is largely useless, it does allow the Warboss to hit Str 8 and Int 5 when he charges. With an attack squig, 'eavy armour and cybork body, he's pretty inexpensive too.

S8 is all fine and dandy, but it's going to allow a save, and that sucks.

True true, and I for one would definitely take a PK anyday of the week. But assuming your opponent has 3+ armour, a Warboss equipped as above has a 35/36 chance of inflicting a wound with 7 attacks.

It's not optimal or anything, but it is cheap in points, and I felt in a thorough guide as Voodoo is compiling it is worth mentioning.

I would say they could be useful-ish on Nobs mobs.If you were taking nobs mobs.

The PK is the definite winner against MEQs. The 'Uge Choppa's value comes in it's superiority against Guard, Eldar, Tau and Orks where it has a good shot of clearing the killzone and sparing the boss's relatively weak armor from return attacks.

The points you save is not that much, a little over 3 Boyz in points. And then you suck vs. MEQ's, Zillas, anything that has an armor save or feel no pain, or what have you.

No. I'm sorry, but the Huge Choppa vs. Power Klaw debate is not even worth having. If you're fighting the kind of enemy that it's going to be good against, you can just swing with your normal attacks and probably get as many wounds as you would with the Uge Choppa.

Great first entry. I agree with pretty much everything said.

The one thing I would bring up is that in the 'HQ Summary' section where you essentially 'pick a winner' you should probably bring up the fact that the type of army you are fielding will really determine what the 'winner' is going to be for your army.

If you are playing an KoS or Stormboy heavy army, then taking a Biker Boss is pretty much mandatory. If you are taking a shooty horde army then 2 Meks with SAGs can be a great idea because they fit in with the style of rest of the army and give you some much needed AP2 devestation (something you don't get too many other places in the list). If you're playing a horde assault army then a couple of Warpheads or a couple of Meks with KFFs (or one of each) would definitely help get your Boyz into combat more safely.

You do bring up all those points in the entries for each unit type, but I just think that the "winner" in the summary section should really be more determined by what type of army you're fielding.


Also, I think a couple of important potential rulings have to be cleared up regarding the Big Mek to determine just how useful he is.

Is the SAG's ability to force models just to "be removed as casualties" not count as Instant Death (I don't believe it does by the RAW)? If not, then even though it is a 1 in 36 chance to roll those double sixes the ability to make an entire Tyranid MC disappear (for example) is certainly worth mentioning and considering.

Also, if the KFF does provide full cover saves to any unit within 6" and obscurement to any vehicle within 6" (without any requirement for how much of the unit must be within 6" as it appears to be by the RAW) then the KFF has recieved a MAJOR boost. One Mek should easily be able to provide cover to pretty much your whole army if they are moving in concert and you have them in the proper formation (with only a couple boyz within 6" of the Mek to get the bonus). Again, you do mention this fact but I think this change is a really big deal that needs to be highlighted even more.



But anyway, those are minor points and so far great job!

What I'd like you guys to talk about is the new Mob Rule and the loss of Mob Up and how it will affect the army, because it will. Noone noticed that Ork LD is now affected by modifiers like being under half strength, psychic scream and so on? An Ork Mob that falls under the fearless limit will most likely break very soon and it won't be regrouping like they used to either.

Take a unit of 12 Slugga Boyz in a Trukk for example. They take a move towards the Godzilla formation and expect to be able to assault next turn. The Tyranids pop the Trukk with a Gunfex and shoot the let's say happily unwounded Orks with a Dakkafex. 5 Orks die and they find themselves being in the range of 2 Zoanthropes and a Hive Tyrant, test on LD4, panic and run away. If the Nids kill two more of that unit later it's going to be checking on LD6 to regroup and is most likely gone for good.

Many Ork units were buffed in power but Ork morale (in addition to Ork initiative) isn't what it used to be.

That definitely will be covered eventually as it was one of the first things I noticed. The change in morale has made Ork mobs under 11 models very susceptible to failing morale checks with or without any additional modifiers.

Then when you factor in that 'mobbing up' is gone and Nobs can't purchase +1 Ld anymore smaller mobs (like those in Trukks) become a real liability, especially when a failure in combat almost guarantees the mob gets run down. I personally feel that any unit you bother to upgarde to contain a Nob should definitely take a Bosspole. The ability to re-roll failed morale checks is going to be mucho importante.

Posted By Therion on 11/01/2007 9:06 PM
What I'd like you guys to talk about is the new Mob Rule and the loss of Mob Up and how it will affect the army, because it will. Noone noticed that Ork LD is now affected by modifiers like being under half strength, psychic scream and so on? An Ork Mob that falls under the fearless limit will most likely break very soon and it won't be regrouping like they used to either.

Take a unit of 12 Slugga Boyz in a Trukk for example. They take a move towards the Godzilla formation and expect to be able to assault next turn. The Tyranids pop the Trukk with a Gunfex and shoot the let's say happily unwounded Orks with a Dakkafex. 5 Orks die and they find themselves being in the range of 2 Zoanthropes and a Hive Tyrant, test on LD4, panic and run away. If the Nids kill two more of that unit later it's going to be checking on LD6 to regroup and is most likely gone for good.

Many Ork units were buffed in power but Ork morale (in addition to Ork initiative) isn't what it used to be.

Yeah the boss pole is just about a necessity now for trukk mobs.  And really its still 2 checks.  Before my trukk boyz would fail there ld, and usually be under 6 at that point anyway (as you could only have 10 in a trukk) now you can lose 7 models, fail to roll under a 6, and cause a wound to a guy who does get a save, however bad a 6+ save is, and have another chance to roll.  Its basically like having ld 9, which is respectable.  And as you usually field slugga boyz in trukks, with 4 left thats still 15 attacks on the charge with str 4, and 5 more at str 9 no save.  However in this example this squad would probably be mopped up by genestealers/harlies before they got to fight back.  Either way the huge problem with using trukks in this edition is gone now, the entangle rule is no more for ork trukk boyz.  So compared to dealing with that lump of crap, Ill hapily worry about getting there with only half boyz, as opposed to sitting there for a turn and dying.

Therion highlights one of the bigger problems with the Boyz now, and why they have to be so careful. I've got a decent bit on that in the Elites section where units that could be pretty good in friendly games like Nobz and MegaNobz are absolutely crippled by this. But this is a general topic that will have be addressed in the "general advice" section.

@Yak, I didn't make as much of a big deal about the Mek and the KFF because of the iffyness on the ruling. It's hard to shake the old Ork attitude that all the Orks had to be within the field for it to work, but you're right, you could theoretically cover 80 or more Orks with this in 4 mobs.

Likewise with the SAG, I'm pretty sure that since it says "removes models" and not instant death, it means TMC's are going bye bye.

Problem being that I don't like counting on that 1/36 of a chance happening to really make an effect. Sure it's awesome when it happens, but most of the time you're just going to be SOL. I will put it in there. I'm going to finish up the Elties section and post it later today, and then I'll go back and revise the HQ section with the things suggested so far.

Keep them coming!

<strong style="">Unit Evaluation: Elites[/b]

  The Elite section is pretty crowded in the new Dex, and sadly it’s also the beginning of the pattern for the rest of the codex: Lots of options, only a few really good choices.

This isn’t to say that there are units here that can be taken for fun and still be decent, but in terms of being competitive there is only one or two choices from this section that stand out as something to include in Ork tournament lists.

<strong style="">Nobz[/b]
Utility: Poor

This is one of the sadder units in the codex, especially in light of similar units like Mega Nobz or Flash Gitz.  They’re very expensive and don’t have any good options. They do have some fun configurations that aren’t half bad, but as you’ll find out they are the epitome of a mediocre unit that you can sink a ton of points into with little return. What’s worse is that they end up simply replicating what is already available in similar mobz for far less points.

Equipping the Nobz

Lets start with the obvious things <strong style="">not[/b] to take: Big Choppas or any of the shooty options. They all suck.  This mob is made for CC, not shooting.  If you want shooty Nobz take Flash Gitz. 

There are a few things that can be done to make these guys decent:

    -Painboss.  This is an expensive upgrade, but it gives the unit Feel No Pain which is necessary for a unit with T4, 2W and a 6+ Save. Additionally he lets you give each model a 5+ Inv save; with an additional cost per model. 

    -Bike Upgrades for the unit make them even more expensive, but at least useful.  Combined with the Painboss you can get a T4(5), 2W, 4+ Armor, 4+ Cover (always), and Feel No Pain unit.  And if you want you can throw the Inv Save on there too.  It’ll be as expensive as all get out, but it’ll be survivable.

As far as CC weapons, every Nob <em style="">can[/i] take a Power Klaw, but it will be expensive.  You’re likely better off only taking one in the mob, maybe two. 

One upgrade that is pretty essential is taking a Waaagh Banner.  This is the only unit that can take this, and it gives the unit +1WS, which when you think about it, on the charge the regular Nobz will hit with 5 Attacks each at WS5, S5, I4, and they have twin linked Big Shootas that run at half range.

Off the Bikes, they can take a Trukk or Battlewagon transport to help get to CC. Both have their plusses and minuses to their use.  The Wagon is expensive but has the Armor of a Leman Russ and is open topped so you can assault.  The Trukk is cheaper and faster, but more fragile.  The only downside to the Battlewagon, besides the cost, is that it’s both expensive and non-scoring, unlike a Heavy Support Battlewagon.  Because of this, if you’re going to stay on foot, I’m going to recommend the Trukk over the wagon, but it’s not completely a clear cut choice.

That all said, this mob will never be cheap, and their minimum costs will still be very expensive. At the high end you can get some expensive models that are pretty survivable.  But this brings another problem: Leadership.  Without numbers, these Boyz will run at the first sign of trouble.  Get hit with an opposing power fist and lose combat? You very likely can run away.  This is the problem for any Elite Ork unit which is saddled with poor LD and doesn’t have the Numbers to use the Mob Rule to keep fighting.   You can take a bosspole to mitigate this somewhat, but then you're inflicting wounds on an inherently small unit to do so.

This unit can be used in friendly games as a heck of a points sink, but still a fun unit that can be effective.  Much like how a Land Raider with Assault Terminators and a Chaplain isn’t exactly tournament worthy, but it is a fun unit to use in friendly games that can do wonderful things.  So are kitted out Power Klaw Nobz.

<strong style="">
[/b]

<strong style="">Meganobz[/b]
Utility: Poor

This is one of those units that really aren’t all that good, but it’s not as bad as regular Nobz.  For the points, they’re probably not worth it, but taken in a Trukk and used as a “super” styled Trukk mob, they can be pretty fun. 

There isn’t any real choice to how to equip them, it’s just about the squad size.  Your basic question is “Trukk or Battlewagon”, which has all the problems mentioned before.  The Trukk is probably better, but a case can be made for the Battlewagon in fun games. 

The crunch on these guys is that they’re Slow & Purposeful (so no +1 Attack for charging), and the fact that they have no Inv save.  And again they have the problem that there will never be a lot of models in this unit, and if they get smacked by a Power Fist and you really start losing models fast (because of instant death), your expensive Meganobz are going to run away faster than a mob of grots.

They really epitomize the kind of unit that is fun to use and can be decent in fun games, but at a tournament they’re going to struggle to earn their keep.

<strong style="">Tankbustas[/b]
Utility: Poor

These guys are really one of the worst things to happen to a previously great unit.  No more tank hunters, but they all get Rokkits!  Wow sounds great right? Wrong.  Due to their Glory Hogs special rule, they will always have to fire at a tank if it is in LOS, regardless of range.   So if you have an empty Rhino sitting out in the field and the Tank Bustas are 6” away from a squad of Marines, they have to fire at the tank, despite the fact that you’d much rather fire at the Marines. 

To top it all off, they’re expensive.  In fact they’re the same points cost as the Burna Boyz and Lootas.  The problem here is that they’re still T4 6+ save models, and they have to get close to fire their Rokkits.  This is a recipe for failure, especially because they can not take a transport. 

Equipping the Tankbustas:

Their upgrades are likewise cool, but pretty damn well useless.  The issue being that Bomb Squigs have to get close, and the Tankhammer has to get even closer.  There is no way a competent opponent is going to let them get anywhere near where they have to go to be worthwhile.  Even upgrading the Nob is pointless, exchanging his Rokkit for a PK just isn’t good sense. 

And it’s not like they really present a threat to AV14 tanks in the first place.  Even if you buy 15 of them (which is a ridiculous amount of points), you will average a little less than one glance on AV14.  They’re just not that good.

For fun, I can see putting 12 of them in an Open Topped Battlewagon (with a Killkannon) to just shoot at stuff like crazy, if you can get a target in range.  They are a pretty bad choice no less, but if you can get close enough, it’ll be hilarious to set off Bomb Squigs!
 

<strong style="">Burna Boyz[/b]
Utility: Poor

These poor Boyz shall be remembered as “The Little Mob that Could Have”.  They could have been so good, they could have been a staple choice to take in many lists, if only they could take a Trukk. 

Equipping the Burnas:

Do not upgrade any of them to Meks, it would be a crime against all Ork kind to commit such a travesty. You give up the burna for a Kustom Mega Blasta that has a good chance of frying the Mek shooting it instead of the enemy.

Using them is going to be rough and like Tank Bustas, they won’t work in escalation.  As they are now, your only good bet is putting them in a Battlewagon to get them where they need to be (up close and then in CC).  On foot, they’re an expensive mob that’s T4 6+ Save, and any opponent worth playing against is going to shoot them before they hit your lines. 

In fact, their only utility in fun games is in a Battle Wagon, Zooming to get into CC via Waaagh Move + Assault.

<strong style="">Kommandos[/b]
Utility: Semi-Competitive*

These Boyz just barely earn the rank of Semi-Competitive, especially in light of what they compete against in the Elites section.  On their own however they can be a pretty good unit, and more importantly they can really provide you with a number of interesting tactical options.

It is also worth pointing out up front, that these guys are the cheapest Elites choice available, on a model by model basis.

Equipping the Kommandos

The way you equip them will depend largely on their intended use.  They can take two of any special weapon (burna, rokkit, big shoota), regardless of mob size (max 15).  The only upgrade I feel is useless is the Big Shoota, since if you want dakka you can get it elsewhere in the list.  Rokkits and Burnas on the other hand absolutely shine in completely different areas.

First are Rokkits.  One tactic that can be used is that for a cheap-as-chips squad, you can take 5 Kommandos and 2 Rokkits and use them as a throw-away unit that can infiltrate and with luck (and first turn), can take turn 1 shots at side armor or at skimmers that haven’t moved yet.  This is a pretty useful unit that will die the moment something sneezes at them, but they are going to require immediate attention or there will be problems for the other player.

The only thing I don’t like here is that even vs. normal Tanks, you’re still relying on 2 Rokkits to do their job, that’s hitting on 5’s.  That and the fact that their main utility is really first turn dependent, which I don’t like.  It’ll be awesome when it works, and they’re cheap enough to risk it many times, but there are always other units that those points could be spent on elsewhere.  Still, if you like this sneaky git idea, then go for it.

The second method to equipping the Kommandos is to throw two burnas in the unit and then probably max out the squad and put in the obligatory Power Klaw Nob.  Between infiltrate and Waaagh, they can do some damage.  If you combo this with a Weirdboy or two and get a first turn Waaagh power, you can do some serious damage.  Even without that, they’re a turn 2 hit and area denial unit.  Not friggin bad.

As a side note, if you do go this route, add the Bosspole to the unit.  With their small squad size it’s going to be rough getting them to stick around.  Part of their utility is the fact that they can tie units up nicely, they can’t do that if they run when they lose combat. 

*Speshul Konsiderations:

One unit of Kommandos per army may forgo upgrading to a Nob and take Boss Snikrot instead.  He carries a heaftier price tag than a PK Nob, and he can’t ignore armor saves, but he is something that pushes this unit from “Semi-Competitive” to “Competitive”. 

His ambush rule allows the Ork player, if they so chose, to allow the unit to go into reserves and when available, they may enter play from any table edge.

This is a pretty big deal because of the possibilities it allows, this nearly guarantees them the charge on many units if your opponent isn’t careful and something is within 12” of a table edge, and if they are careful, it could be useful to declare the Waaagh and use Fleet to catch your target.  And while Snikrot doesn’t ignore armor saves, he can be counted on to put a few wounds on almost anything, especially on the charge. And while he doesn’t’ ignore armor, two Burnas in the unit CAN ignore armor saves, making this the ideal unit to take down MEQ squads.

Hopefully it should go without saying, but if you’re going to run Snikrots mob, take Burnas and the max squad size.  This unit will be expensive in almost any configuration you want to use for close assaults, which is a downside, but with Snikrot – you really stand a chance to make your points back.  This is more so vs. certain armies (like Marines), but in general if they don’t make their points back they will certainly tie key units up at the right moment, which may not make back it’s points, but it can win you games in its own right and should not be ignored.

<strong style="">Lootas[/b]
Utility: Competitive

In true GW fashion, what used to be one of the worst units in the old Codex is back with absolutely amazing set of rules. 

In every list, almost always in the Elite section, you find that one unit that just screams out “TAKE ME!” above all the other choices.  This is one of those units for the Orks.  It’s not because they’re much more survivable than the other Boyz, or because their damage output is amazing for their points (though it can be at times), but because you simply <em style="">need them[/i].

Lootas are the only unit in the Ork army that can reliably deal with tanks up to and including AV13 at long range.  They are quite possibly the best anti-skimmer unit in the entire game.  You will pay points for this ability, but it is available to you.  And remember folks, any time you can put the screws to a Mech Eldar player with Orks – a Nob somewhere out there gets his Power Klaw.

Equipping the Lootas

They’re already equipped as well as any Ork.  Upgrading any of them to a Mek will immediately relegate your rank from “Warboss” to “Grot” by any Ork players in a 2 mile radius who gets word that you actually exchanged the Deffgun for a Kustom Mega Blasta or something worse. 

On to actually using the Lootas, their application is very specific.  These Boys are expensive, and they’re still just T4 with a 6+ save.  What they do have compared to other Elites that fit this criteria is a 48” range with a S7 AP4 gun that does D3 shots.  To use Lootas effectively you will have to deploy them in cover where they will have a good line of fire to a good portion of the board. 

That’s really all there is to using them.  Their application once deployed is to sit still and just keep firing at anything that’s a target.   They can put wounds on Dakka Fex’s, present a credible threat to any skimmer, even ones with Holofields+Spirit Stones, and can put glances on Predators. 

To throw out some significant statistics, if you have a unit of 12 Lootas open fire on a Falcon and you roll a 5 or 6 for the number of shots (3 per model), you have almost a 50% chance of getting an Immobilized or Destroyed result. 

Likewise one unit of 12 can open fire on a Dakka Fex, at 48”, and depending on the number of shots for the unit can put anywhere from 2 to 8 wounds on it reliably, and once you get a Dakka Fex rolling that many saves on a 3+, he will start to go down.   Now imagine firing this on a unit of Marines or equivalent and you see why they can be so devastating.

Because of these things, this is a unit that screams to be taken in multiples.

I recommend going with Mob sizes over 10. I’m finding that 12 to 14 is about the max I want to use, mostly on the lower side.  One of their main problems is that they will never have a lot of models and they can’t get a Bosspole.  So if they really start taking casualties, they will run.  And if they’re low on models their LD will be poor to take target priority tests.  So keeping the mob at a healthy size and in a place that will make engaging them difficult is crucial to using them well.

The thing to remember about Lootas is that unlike the other “really good” stuff in the Ork list, or in any list, is that while they are extremely potent, you have to use them well or you will see them die.  These guys are not Terminators, they are not Harlies or Dragons delivered via Falcons, but I think they’re going to be used just as much as those units, despite not being as survivable.  They leave very little room for error and will take skill to use, but when used correctly they can be devastating.  And most importantly they do things that nothing else in the Ork list can replicate. 

<strong style="">
[/b]

<strong style="">Elites Summary[/b]
 
With GW, and even with Phil Kelly, not everything in a codex can be useful, and Elites is a section that is crowded with a lot of bad choices and a few very good ones.

Competitively speaking, Lootas stand out above the rest of the choices like a Nob in a Grot Mob.  Kommandos make a good showing, but ultimately in the context of the rest of the army, the Lootas are what really win out in a number of competitive builds – simply because they can reliably put down skimmers at very long range.  It’s a fact of the Meta-game that you need to be able to glance at least 3 Falcons/Hammerheads per turn reliably.  These Boyz give you that option and nothing else in the list can replicate that. 

This is not to say the other units aren’t fun. In terms of character and fun, the choices in the Elites section is one of the best in the dex!  When playing friendly games, there is no reason to ignore Meganobz in a Trukk or maybe even go nuts and put down a mob of Bike Nobz with a Painboy.  And either unit can be Troops if you take a Warboss! 

That is what makes the Ork dex so successful.  If you want to be competitive at a tournament, you can.  But if you want a crazy fun choice with a lot of Character, there is a wealth of options you can take.  Just don’t expect them to do well in a very competitive environment.

To throw out some slightly more accurate stats:

If you have 12 lootas on 3 shots for that turn then you have a 50% chance of killing and a 25% chance of immobilisng a bare bones falcon.

However, against the falcons we all know and love, you have a 11% chance of killing and 26% chance of immobilising it, a little way of 50% id say. Still quite good (for falcon killing), but i think you were slightly exaggerating how good.

An average 2 shots per loota drops that to 7% and 19% respectively.

Excellent break down as always. I especially like how well you qualified the awesomeness of lootas. It seems to me that Lootas are the Ork version of Rough Riders: a unit that some players will immediatly disqualify, but others will recognize immediatly as what they need to succeed.

You know, GW gets a certain amount of static for whenever a new codex comes out buffing the previously bad choices and nerfing the good ones. Sure, some of it probably cynical and profit driven, but that's also how you balance things. If one option is too good, you limit it a bit, while nudging up the less used options. My point is that it's a shame to see GW completely failing to boost Nobz units. In fact, they're weaker now because they've lost the choppa, Waaagh, and Morale rules. Used to be you could hit the enemy with I6 nobs that hit on 4's, wounded on 4's, and only allowed a 4+ save. Now, they cost a little more, hit on 3's, wound on 3's, but they get full saves and probably strike first.

Here's my theory: the designers get overwhelmed by more than a few options. Look at the new fex, the old DP and chosen units, etc. The designers also continue their bizarre fascination with multi-wound models, overcosting them from 20-50% constantly. Looking at Nobs, and their equally long suffering brothers, the Tyranid Warrior, there are tons of options as well as multiple wounds. They try to playtest, but eventually take on 5 pts per model as insurance and call it a day.

It's the only way I can think of that explains these two units. Mega nobs could drop in cost 10pts Each, and they still wouldn't be a no brainer.

Posted By puree on 11/02/2007 7:04 AM
To throw out some slightly more accurate stats:

If you have 12 lootas on 3 shots for that turn then you have a 50% chance of killing and a 25% chance of immobilisng a bare bones falcon.

However, against the falcons we all know and love, you have a 11% chance of killing and 26% chance of immobilising it, a little way of 50% id say. Still quite good (for falcon killing), but i think you were slightly exaggerating how good.

An average 2 shots per loota drops that to 7% and 19% respectively.

How so?

You have a 1/9 chance to get either an Immobilize or Destroyed result on a Falcon for every glance.  Without Vectored Engines, both leave it as destroyed, and with VE it becomes a target and non scoring.

So for 12 Lootas you get 1-3 Shots:

1 Shot per Loota = 12 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 1.33 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 14.8% Chance
2 Shot per Loota = 24 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 2.66 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 29.6% Chance
3 Shot per Loota = 36 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 1.33 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 44.8% Chance

So if you roll that 5 or a 6 for the shots, you have nearly a 50% chance to down a Falcon.

I really don't agree with you about the competitiveness of the Tankbusta boys. I feel that they are an excellent unit.

Every Ork has a rokkit. They are shooty orks. They are going to outshoot marines at 24, marines kill 2/3 * 1/2 vs. 1/3 * 5/6...cover doesn't change this as both sides are currently APing. They cost less than marines, and outshoot them.

Some other things:

1. Escalation. No Glory Hogs to worry about for 2 rounds as they wipe the opponents infantry off the field with a barrage of rokkits. When the vehicles do come in, the bustas are safely ensconced in good cover, ready and waiting to surge forth and return fire.

2. Kill 2 vehicles. With their bomb squigs the Glory Hogs are actually able to kill more than one vehicle in a turn. Shoot at a far away vehicle and release the squigs to get the closer one.

3. Fire magnet. A bunch of boys who each got rokkits may seem like an appetizing target, but remember that this is Codex: Orks we are talking about here. Da Boys are getting closer and closer, in trukks and fortresses, on jetbikes or jetpacks. If they take the time out to fire on your tankbustas and as a consequence get charged by a full boys mob, I think you'll be satisfied. Tankbustas in cover will require 2 or 3 squads fire to wipe out (at long range, rapid fire will cut em down, but if they are that close you'll crump em wif yer fists anyway).

I see the Glory Boys rule as being like the "Don't Touch That" rule on the looted basilisk last time around, its a small check on the power of a very nice unit, and orky in the extreme.

Here are the conditions that must be fulfilled before you lose your shots.

At the beginning of your turn
1. Vehicle in LOS
2. No vehicles within 30".
3. No friendly vehicle can be moved into a position to block LOS to the vehicle.
4. Tankbustas can't move in such a way as to lose their LOS to the vehicle.
5. Nobody else can pop the vehicle first

I doubt I changed your mind, but maybe its cool that two reasonable people can read the same codex and come off with different ideas about a unit's viability.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 11/02/2007 7:59 AM

Posted By puree on 11/02/2007 7:04 AM
To throw out some slightly more accurate stats:

If you have 12 lootas on 3 shots for that turn then you have a 50% chance of killing and a 25% chance of immobilisng a bare bones falcon.

However, against the falcons we all know and love, you have a 11% chance of killing and 26% chance of immobilising it, a little way of 50% id say. Still quite good (for falcon killing), but i think you were slightly exaggerating how good.

An average 2 shots per loota drops that to 7% and 19% respectively.

How so?

You have a 1/9 chance to get either an Immobilize or Destroyed result on a Falcon for every glance.  Without Vectored Engines, both leave it as destroyed, and with VE it becomes a target and non scoring.

So for 12 Lootas you get 1-3 Shots:

1 Shot per Loota = 12 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 1.33 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 14.8% Chance
2 Shot per Loota = 24 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 2.66 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 29.6% Chance
3 Shot per Loota = 36 Shots *1/3 Hit * 1/3 Glance = 1.33 Glances * 1/9 to Glance/Destroy = 44.8% Chance

So if you roll that 5 or a 6 for the shots, you have nearly a 50% chance to down a Falcon.

Averages do not equate to chance of success.

The following gives some indication of where you went wrong:

chance per shot of success (kill or immob) = 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/9 = 1/81.*
chance to fail = 80/81
chance of X shots failing = 80/81^X.

12 shots failing = 80/81^12 = 86
24 shots failing = 80/81^24 = 74
36 shots failing = 80/81^36 = 64

chance of success:
12 shots = 14% (4% of actual kill, 10% immob)
24 shots = 26% (7% of actual kill, 19% immob)
26 shots = 36% (11% of actual kill, 26% immob)

(You'll have to take my word for the outright kill chance, ps the 36 shots didn't add up to 36% just cos of the way i rounded)

I realise the diffrence between vectored engines or not.

*If you think about it, 1/81 is like saying that it will take an average of 81 shots to bring it down. That should have made you suspicious of any near 50% figure from just 36 shots.

{edit: A useful guide for this sort of scenario,  where you have the chance per shot of success - 1/81 in this case - then that number of shots give approximately 65% chance of success, and 2/3rds that number give approximately 50% chance of success. so ~54 shots vs the falcon to reach 50% chance.

e.g a marine bolter has a 1/27 chance of wounding a fex, so 27 shots have ~65% and 18 shots have ~50% chance, but in that example the chance will also include the possibility of multiple wounds as the fex doesn't die after the first wound.}

One thing I think needs to be included about the Tankbustas is that the bomb squigs (apparently) do not require line of sight to use (nor do they appear to be slowed by difficult or impassable terrain) you can take a minimum sized unit of Tankbustas, give them 3 bomb squigs and keep them hidden behind cover.

This can give you a scoring unit that has an 18" bubble that vehicles will be afraid to enter. Plus if you get really desperate you can always move the unit into the cover and get one round of desperation shooting off before your opponent obliterates them.

Overall they certainly aren't competitive but the grot bombs deserve a little more of a mention considering how few points they are (IMO).


Also, the more I think about it the more I feel that the Big Mek with KFF is mandatory in any Ork army where you have footslogging mobs that will be moving towards the enemy (as opposed to sitting back and shooting). The ability to protect multiple units at the same time means that unless your dice completely fail you he will easily, easily make back his points in Orks saved through his KFF and (as you point out) his burna attacks on the charge ain't so shabby either!

A couple points on the actual writing:

• In Snikkrot's section you mention that he doesn't ignore armor saves in two sentences right next to each other.
• You used a regular "wink" smiley instead of an Ork emoticon? The heresy!

 

 

Info I posted in another thread, but I thought it would be worth being here, and is a nice follow up to anti falcon ability posts above this one.

3 maxed out lootas, which don't cost to much more than 3 fully souped up falcons. With an average of 2 shots per turn are indeed looking like serious anti-falcon units. In a single turn they have about a 70% chance of dropping a falcon (dead or immobile), if you always pick a new target after immobilising one then you have almost a 20% chance of nobbling 2 falcons in 1 turn.

In 2 turns of full shooting you have a ~29% chance of nobbling all 3 falcons, ~32% chance of 2 and ~29 chance of 1.

The random shot factor affects that somewhat, but at least that is as likely to go in your favor as against it.

And in a 1500 pt game you still have over half your points for  other stuff! I don't think there are any other lists that can pack that much anti-falcon firepower into that few points.  The beauty of lootas is that even in the absence of falcons, there is likely to be plenty of other useful targets for them.

One unit that I realized how good it was after crunching numbers are Ork Bikers...

I took a squad of 10 with nob (PK, Bosspole) against a 6 man las/plas squad and a Tornado, just shooting.

Da boyz (against the Marines) get .250 points in kills per point. The Marines get .246. Negligible difference, but the boyz are alot better in assault and are alot more mobile.

Against the Tornado, Da boyz get .523 points in kills per point (Just counting immobilized/destroyed results.) in addition to all the weapon destroyed results (99.93% of getting a glancing hit vs a AV 10 skimmer from one turn of shooting). The Tornado scores .531 points back. Again, doesn't count what they would do on the charge, and they are equally mobile.

I was thinking of an army with the biker special character, 2-3 bike packs as troops, rocket warbuggies, and battlewagons with hard case, grabba claw, big shootas, the wreckin' ball, armor plates , grot riggers, and the death roller.

But Bikers can't be troops, right?

A guide to a codex that isn't released yet?!? *shakes head in disbelief*

I've been wondering about the Lootas and their real effectiveness. It's obvious that they are a decent way to spend points and fill a gap in the Ork arsenal. However, I've noticed people talking about taking 45 of them and already calculating how many Falcons they kill per turn with them. I'd like to remind everyone that they're talking about 45 infantry models here, a Devastator mob larger than most 1500 point armies. In the same sentence we're talking about having those guys well spread out behind Ork lines, in cover, and drawing LOS to enemy skimmers on the other side of the table. Every single time a unit of 15 Lootas fires there will be 1-5 guys in the unit who can't see the target. I can't think of any scenario when 45 Lootas deployed in the aforementioned manner could focus fire on something.

I'm predicting major problems in the actual application of the massed deffguns. I wouldn't make 7/15 of my Ork army completely static, since it will lead to massive problems on tables with a reasonable amount of cover and area terrain, especially if the mission necessitates a lot of movement.

This is just another consideration that makes me think new Ork players should build a flexible force, using reasonably small amounts of all the useful units instead of massing just one element.

Posted By Samwise158 on 11/02/2007 9:01 PM
But Bikers can't be troops, right?

With the Biker Special Character, they can.

I played a test game last night vs. a Zilla list at 1500 points, and if there is one thing I came out of it learning was that:

1.) Lootas are indeed as good as any of you are thinking they are in terms of damage output.
2.) Massing them is not a simple answer, for very much the reason Therion posted.

In the game I played I had two pieces of area terrain to deploy in in my deployment zone and it was hard to get the Lootas deployed where they'd be able to all get shots out. I was using two units of 12. If I had a third unit of them, I'd be screwed. This was at 1500 points and at 1750 I was thinking of adding more, but it's really not going to be as easy as that. This becomes much more evident when playing against Zillas where Barbed Strangler shots from heavy Fex's have no better targets to go after than the Lootas.

That all said, when one unit of Lootas killed two dakka fex's in two turns, not even rolling 3 shots per guy, it's amazing.

If there is one thing that I learned it was that this army is all about throwing as much crap at a wall and seeing just how much can stick. A Flyrant got charged by Storm Boyz and on the charge he took a wound before the power klaw could even swing, and he had warp field. 45 Attacks for the normal Boyz can do that!

Shooting with the Shootas and Lootas was a very similar experience, just throwing so many dice at things that amazing things happen. In the Dakka Fex examples they were taking 10 wounds to save from Lootas.

Fast assault is also critical, I used two mobz of storm Boyz in my test game, but it was hard to fit them in.

You know, one of these times we are going to dwell into mathhammer, make a rounding error and render the Falcon statistically unkillable. I think we need to stop now while there is still time. ;-)

As for the real topic, I think that ork players are probably necessitated to play looters in descent numbers simply because of how big a hole it fills in the army. However, deployment is going to be trickier, which is pretty cool as it punishes players by taking away a good asset to them if they cannot deploy well. Hopefully, looters may not so overshadow other units so that it is completely obligatory, and thus players who are bad at that kind of thing can build competitive armies without having to use them, meaning more customization of ork lists in general which I think would enhance the environment.

Posted By DarkHellion on 11/03/2007 5:16 PM
You know, one of these times we are going to dwell into mathhammer, make a rounding error and render the Falcon statistically unkillable. I think we need to stop now while there is still time. ;-)

mmm, nah , mathhammer has the distinct advantage of no models to paint

DarkHellion, how hard is it to plonk a bunch of Lootas in cover? I mean, it may sometimes be difficult, in that there may not be sufficient cover if you max out on Lootas, but that really has very little to do with your deployment skillz or whatever. They will be obligatory for competitive lists, full-stop. The only question is how many.

The Deployment concern seems to be dictated mostly by the terrain available.  On a board with many large open fields of fire and ample cover in the deployment zones the infantry ork army would actually do much better IMHO than on a board that had plenty of area terrain in the middle of the board.  The KFF and Lootas change that dynamic.  But on a board with enough cover to allow Falcons to zip from cover to cover, or one that lacked a good firebase, each Loota Squad could find itself taking the entire enemy army's fire while the others had no LOS.  I know that one nob swinging his fist and a couple of rokkits wouldn't deter me from moving closer to a boyz mob with a fast skimmer.

I agree that the 45 Loota force, which would eat up about a third of the army list in an 1850 game, would mostly be useful against Mech Armies and would be ill-prepared to deal with other armies. 
SAFH marines, Russ using IG, Necrons, Infantry-heavy Chaos, Deep Striking Terminators.  Horde nids vs. Horde Orks would be a fun one to watch.

Anyway you cut it though, the new ork list is mean enough that tournament lists are going to have to find a way to deal with the potential for 200 orks running at them.  That makes me smile

I am really looking forward to fighting a foot slogging horde of Orks. One of the most funs I have had in a giant multiplayer game was lining up 2k of Sisters across the table from 3k of Orks and trying desperately to kill them off before they got to my lines. I think I killed maybe 2500 of them before the player had to head home, and he had wrecked about 1700 points of girls and ripped up maybe 300 points of steal suits my team mate had sent over, but still, it was a blast holding off the green tide before I inevitably drowned. I can't wait to see 3k of competitive orks across the table from 3k of girls desperately trying to thin them before they crash in.

It's too bad about the nobz. KFF and mekboys don't seem particularly
"Goff" to me, so it will be less fun fielding one to protect a bunch of
sloggers.

Teg, plonking them in cover only works if the cover gives clear lines of fire. Many games will have cover that does not have that, or will have cover that is overexposed to fire from enemy units in their own cover. Other times you will have to move looters into cover that isn't in your deployment zone, and thus choose how to deploy them so that your opponent can't send a suicide squad in to mop them up if you lose the first turn.

All of these are very real possibilities to happen in tournament play, and are what I am talking about when I say that looters value will increase dramatically based on deployment skill. However, I will agree that they are obligatory after thinking about it a bit.

I've really been thinking about bikes vs stormboyz. Bikes are much more resilient, easier to hide, EXTREMELY dakka (assuming that dakka guns are TL) and still pack the PK nob.

The downfall is you only get one bike per two stormboyz, and the bikes are a little slower (not counting turbo.) Considering a lot of the power from the stormboyz is the PK nob, and the bikes still have that, along with crazy shooting, they are a formidable choice.

Being a smaller unit, the bikes also have a smaller footprint. Another plus to the bikes.

The only time i could see the stormboyz being better is if you can hide them all the way up to the enemy, in positions where if they were bikers they wouldn't be able to shoot anything.

10 bikes vs. 20 stormboyz...i just dunno. I think bikes will fit the shooty orc horde a little better.

Posted By malfred on 11/04/2007 7:29 PM
It's too bad about the nobz. KFF and mekboys don't seem particularly
"Goff" to me, so it will be less fun fielding one to protect a bunch of
sloggers.

C'mon now Malfred. Goffs are known to use tons of Kans & Dreads. Who do you think builds and maintains those? I think a Big Mek is fine for a 'Goff' themed army (as long as you take a Warboss along with him).

 

 

Bikes die when going through terrain. Stormboys hop over it. Orks can't get expert riders. Any dangerious terrain rolls could easily wipe out a bike or two.

Very true, I didnt consider the fact that the stormboyz can move over cover that would normally hurt the bikes or force them to move around.  This further adds to stormboyz being faster than bikes.

Hmmm, that still doesn't break the decision for me though.

Edit: I also wanted to ask how many regular sloggers did you take voodoo? How did they do?  Is it worth taking more regular boyz over say stormboyz or lootas?

DarkHellion, all valid points, but this is the sort of thing people need to know about if they want to win, period. I don't think there are many units in the list that are any easier to use.

Bikes are actually pretty cost efficient in their points per kill ratio, as Skyth pointed out. Taking a decent sized unit of what 6 Bikes with PK Nob works out to be about 10 points more than 20 Boyz on foot with PK Nob and 2 Rokkits.

Problem is that like just about anything "elite" in the Ork army is that it will suffer from LD problems the minute something goes sour.

Charge bikes at a unit and get hit by a power fist? Watch 2 bikes die, and then the LD test isn't pretty and you're likely getting run down. Casualties from shooting can also be pretty damaging as well - all because the bikes don't have the numbers to really take advantage of the Mob Rule. And if you do buy that many bikes in one unit, their advantages start to diminish (as they become harder to hide than the Storm Boyz), and their effective charge distance is smaller than the Storm Boyz, who also are cheap enough to take large mobz and ignore LD problems until the Mob is about to die anyway.

I've incorporated the changes suggested so far and am trying to fit in "word-for-word" some of the more detailed responses I've gotten. 

I understand that the averages are an ideal and there are more accurate methods for figuring out their stats, but I prefer to go with it for quick evaluations as to the approximate capabilities of a unit, since most people who haven't had to suffer through stat courses can follow it and it does give a somewhat accurate picture of a units capability.  However I elected to drop the Mathhammer on the Lootas and went with something that's much more agreeable in terms of evaluating their performance. 

Additionally, all changes made are highlighted in RED to make it easy to follow changes made thus far.

I should get some time (hopefully) to write up the Troops section later today.

One thing I want to add is that the Lootas have a huge damage potential against all infantry types with an armor save up to 4+ (and even with a better save). I always see people arguing for the lootas due to their Anti-Skimmer/Anti-Tank skills, but against any more basic infantry in the game (let's say firewarriors or many of the Eldar ground troops) they also wreak havoc. But that comes out of a non-tournament players mouth, so maybe it's not that interesting.

Just a small bit I wanted to add.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. great review nonetheless! Thank you Vodoo, I guess you waited long enough for it.

I think the reason we are all frothing about the antiskimmer potential is because we haven't had much of a way to deal with skimmers for the last decade (cheers Andy).
I agree with you on the anti infantry potential. Against hording 'nids Lootas will be nailing hourmies, stealers and warriors happily. Only if those targets are destroyed will they be hitting heavy fexes. If an eldar player isn't tri-falconing me, I'll happily pummel him with some shots. That's the great thing about Lootas- they can pretty much mess with any unit that isn't AV14. We're just excited at the prospect of finally being able to do something about skimmers. (If you've ever played a footslogger army against mech tau you'll know why this is such a big deal)

Whil I agree that Burna Boys are clearly not a unit of choice, I still believe it was a wise decision on the studio's part not to give them the option of taking a trukk. A light, fast, open topped vehicle filled with troops with template weapons would be one of the nastiest glass hammers in the game.

Template weapons, three attacks and power weapons.
They'd be a pretty damn good unit.

(As is you can still bung them in a battlewagon for that purpose, same with tankbustas)

Posted By Da Boss on 11/05/2007 11:01 AM
I think the reason we are all frothing about the antiskimmer potential is because we haven't had much of a way to deal with skimmers for the last decade (cheers Andy).
I agree with you on the anti infantry potential. Against hording 'nids Lootas will be nailing hourmies, stealers and warriors happily. Only if those targets are destroyed will they be hitting heavy fexes. If an eldar player isn't tri-falconing me, I'll happily pummel him with some shots. That's the great thing about Lootas- they can pretty much mess with any unit that isn't AV14. We're just excited at the prospect of finally being able to do something about skimmers. (If you've ever played a footslogger army against mech tau you'll know why this is such a big deal)

Why do I have the mental image of a space marine army with a command squad (in land raider), a terminator squad (in land raider), 2 tactical squads (in land raiders (HS slots), and an assault squad (in land raider (HS Slot)?

5 land raiders (maybe make one or two of them crusaders), that should put a dent in any loota's shooting.

(Of course, 5 land raiders is 1250 points right there).

Yup. The only ones who can do an effective AV14 spam are Gaurd Armoured Companies and Orks themselves. Orks versus orks is gonna be a tense game with the new book.

4 land raiders in 1750.

Captain /w terminator command squad (barebones) 245 pts
terminator assault squad (barebones) 200 pts /w land raider transport = 450 pts total
tactical squad (5-man)x2, 75 pts ea
2x land raider, 250 pts ea
1x land raider crusader, 265 pts
total, 1610 points. 140 points for wargear and weapons.

Posted By yakface on 11/04/2007 9:38 PM

Posted By malfred on 11/04/2007 7:29 PM
It's too bad about the nobz. KFF and mekboys don't seem particularly
"Goff" to me, so it will be less fun fielding one to protect a bunch of
sloggers.

C'mon now Malfred. Goffs are known to use tons of Kans & Dreads. Who do you think builds and maintains those? I think a Big Mek is fine for a 'Goff' themed army (as long as you take a Warboss along with him).

Hey, the only thing I know of Goffs is the little I remember reading from the WD
that introduced the Clanz. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The absence of Nobz (other than as Boy upgrades) is one of the more disheartening
things. When I saw the rules I thought, "Oooh! Oodles of Nobz/Skarboyz!", but the
tactica's assessment of their effectiveness makes the closeted ork in me cry.

Maybe small squads of Nobs could do something if they got a battlewagon to ride around in, but really Nobs are much better as unit leaders than independant units. They are too low save and low initiative to justify paying 20 points a pop for them.

I've given quite a bit of thought about tankbustas tonight. And I've changed my mind. They don't suck. I'd put their usefullness at average to good. The bomb squig is just amazing. You have a 18" hit anything bubble. Regardless of LOS, interposing models, difficult terrain, and this is the big one... Hit on a 2+. It also appears that they can attack a secondary target. These little guys do not have to attack the same target that the boys do. This will let the ork player attack two targets a turn with a good chance of having positive results on both.

Yes the glory hog rule may be annoying, but in a hybrid list you will have plenty of your own vehicles to block LOS, or just other LOS blocking terrain. This unit will also be very valuable against all infantry (SAFH marines) only armies. Nidzilla lists will really not like these guys. About the only list that will give these guys real problems are armies that field high AV forward position vehicles like Necrons.  Or vehicle swarming lists like drop pods.  Even Mech eldar should fear these guys.  S8 will wreck havok on vipers squadrons and can put the hurt on Falcons and waveserpents.

As for the rhino 60" away, well, just shoot it dead with something else. Use buggies, or dethcopters, or any number of other fast movers to kill it first. Tankbustas clearly are not a stand alone unit. They make a wonderful support unit or tandem unit.

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/05/2007 9:42 PM
I've given quite a bit of thought about tankbustas tonight. And I've changed my mind. They don't suck. I'd put their usefullness at average to good. The bomb squig is just amazing. You have a 18" hit anything bubble. Regardless of LOS, interposing models, difficult terrain, and this is the big one... Hit on a 2+. It also appears that they can attack a secondary target. These little guys do not have to attack the same target that the boys do. This will let the ork player attack two targets a turn with a good chance of having positive results on both.

Yes the glory hog rule may be annoying, but in a hybrid list you will have plenty of your own vehicles to block LOS, or just other LOS blocking terrain. This unit will also be very valuable against all infantry (SAFH marines) only armies. Nidzilla lists will really not like these guys. About the only list that will give these guys real problems are armies that field high AV forward position vehicles like Necrons.  Or vehicle swarming lists like drop pods.  Even Mech eldar should fear these guys.  S8 will wreck havok on vipers squadrons and can put the hurt on Falcons and waveserpents.

As for the rhino 60" away, well, just shoot it dead with something else. Use buggies, or dethcopters, or any number of other fast movers to kill it first. Tankbustas clearly are not a stand alone unit. They make a wonderful support unit or tandem unit.

I'm certainly open to hearing arguments for Tankbustas and revising their entry in the tactica. 

What you're saying is true, but to be honest, I don't like 15 point models with T4, 6+ Save having to be that close to their targets.  Take a big mob, and they get this bullseye of "Shoot Here for easy Victory Points!"  They will get shot and you will lose a near 200 point mob very quickly.  Take a small mob and then you're looking at them taking a few casualties and then running. I'm not a fan of this.

My reasoning for rating them so poorly is thus:

A Shooty Ork unit with that kind of range limitation and special rule should not be that fragile and cost so many points with such low LD. 

It's not to say that their potential damage output isn't big. It is, the problem is the fact that they can be neutralized so easily, so quickly, through a variety of methods, while costing so many points - that I can't find myself using them in competitive lists.

I'd love to keep discussing this, so please if anyone feels I'm off base with this feel free to rip apart what I'm saying.

And yet your gushing over lootas. 15 pt models, T4, 6+ save, LD 7 and cant even get a nob with a bosspole.. Yes their gun is 48", but they are static as all get out. Which means if you put them near the back to take advantage of the range, there will be LOS issues because we don't play this game on an open field. To get the most LOS area, they will have to be moved to the front, and the more they can see the more of the enemy that can see them. Which unit has a larger bullseye painted onto it? A 5+ cover save isn't going to keep them around all that much. Lootas are dead by turn 2 if the enemy knows what they are, and lootas are rather screwed against Necrons with a forward Monolith. LD7 is quite a few failed target priority checks in which their guns will have to go plink against its side. This is also an issue with landraiders, but those are a bit less common.

At least tankbustas have the option of move and shoot, they can also hide behind terrain incase you don't get first turn, something Lootas can't if you want to shoot when your turn comes around. They can be put into a battlewagon for some real AV12-14 protection and still function at full effectiveness. They at least have these options for survivability that lootas are missing.

Now, I'm not raggin on lootas. They are a very good unit, but they have just as many limatations as tankbustas (all be it different ones). Also their points isn't quite an issue. They are 15 points and there is nothing else in the codex that can do what they do, because of this, we are stuck at 15 points.

What about tankbustas in a Battlewagon? The extra speed will get them into range safely and quickly, and boarding planks allow one of them at least to use his tank hammer up close and personal. The rest can rain rokkity destruction on their foes from the back of their AV14 wagon, safe as they are going to get. The biggest risk is rolling a one on a bomb squig and exploding your own wagon.
You can kit out a battlewagon relatively cheaply, and their isn't much else worth dragging along from Heavy Support. Give it a killcannon to hammer armoured threats (and make it much more expensive, true) or just 4 Big Shootas so it can move and fire at enemy infantry.
I'll be trying this out anyway.

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/06/2007 7:05 AM
And yet your gushing over lootas. 15 pt models, T4, 6+ save, LD 7 and cant even get a nob with a bosspole.. Yes their gun is 48", but they are static as all get out. Which means if you put them near the back to take advantage of the range, there will be LOS issues because we don't play this game on an open field. To get the most LOS area, they will have to be moved to the front, and the more they can see the more of the enemy that can see them. Which unit has a larger bullseye painted onto it? A 5+ cover save isn't going to keep them around all that much. Lootas are dead by turn 2 if the enemy knows what they are, and lootas are rather screwed against Necrons with a forward Monolith. LD7 is quite a few failed target priority checks in which their guns will have to go plink against its side. This is also an issue with landraiders, but those are a bit less common.

At least tankbustas have the option of move and shoot, they can also hide behind terrain incase you don't get first turn, something Lootas can't if you want to shoot when your turn comes around. They can be put into a battlewagon for some real AV12-14 protection and still function at full effectiveness. They at least have these options for survivability that lootas are missing.

Now, I'm not raggin on lootas. They are a very good unit, but they have just as many limatations as tankbustas (all be it different ones). Also their points isn't quite an issue. They are 15 points and there is nothing else in the codex that can do what they do, because of this, we are stuck at 15 points.

The 48" range, the ability to take larger mob sizes (to avoid morale issues) and the fact that you can shoot at whatever you want makes the Lootas points cost a whole lot more attractive then the Tankbusta's points cost.

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/06/2007 7:05 AM
And yet your gushing over lootas. 15 pt models, T4, 6+ save, LD 7 and cant even get a nob with a bosspole.. Yes their gun is 48", but they are static as all get out. Which means if you put them near the back to take advantage of the range, there will be LOS issues because we don't play this game on an open field. To get the most LOS area, they will have to be moved to the front, and the more they can see the more of the enemy that can see them. Which unit has a larger bullseye painted onto it? A 5+ cover save isn't going to keep them around all that much. Lootas are dead by turn 2 if the enemy knows what they are, and lootas are rather screwed against Necrons with a forward Monolith. LD7 is quite a few failed target priority checks in which their guns will have to go plink against its side. This is also an issue with landraiders, but those are a bit less common.

At least tankbustas have the option of move and shoot, they can also hide behind terrain incase you don't get first turn, something Lootas can't if you want to shoot when your turn comes around. They can be put into a battlewagon for some real AV12-14 protection and still function at full effectiveness. They at least have these options for survivability that lootas are missing.

Now, I'm not raggin on lootas. They are a very good unit, but they have just as many limatations as tankbustas (all be it different ones). Also their points isn't quite an issue. They are 15 points and there is nothing else in the codex that can do what they do, because of this, we are stuck at 15 points.

They're LD7, but their large mob size will help them break through any target priority problems.

The difference is the range.  Yes they're static, but they also don't have to get close.  I've not played on a board where I couldn't get at least 1 or 2 places to deploy in at long range that would cover major areas of the board in a fire zone.  Likewise, anything that can try and get shots at them will struggle to do so at that range and can be engaged by other units or Lootas themselves. 

Additionally, their damage output vs. Skimmers is amazing, and they out-range Dakkafex's.  They have the number of shots to deal with almost anything and most of their problems can be solved with careful deployment. 

Add in all that, the fact that they're your only long range anti-tank that's near any kind of reliable, and then that they can always shoot at what they want while costing the same or less than the Tankbustas, and you have my reasons for supporting them as such.

Hey, I just want to say that I've really been enjoying this analysis.  I can't wait to face the new Orks on the battlefield.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 11/05/2007 6:47 AM

 

So how many shots does it take to get at least a 95% probability of bringing down a falcon?

Well, we know P = 1 - q^n. So, n = log(1 - P)/ log q, where "log" means natural logarithm (logarithm base e). Filling in P = .95 and q = 80/81 we get n = 241 (approximately), so 241 shots give you a 95% chance of bringing down at least one falcon. Of course, on average 241 shots will do much better than bring down one falcon (E = 2.98).

Posted By TragicNut on 11/06/2007 11:43 AM
So how many shots does it take to get at least a 95% probability of bringing down a falcon?

To get a straight out kill/immob = 242.

Though in reality you will have achived that earlier as a result of cumulative weapon destroyed etc.  Around the 200 mark.

See, this is why I just use averages to represent these things. Because all MathHammer should ever do is give you an idea or an approximation of what it will take to do something in game.

Yes, I've done the Statistics courses, I get what you're saying, but from my perspective that level of analysis isn't justified for the application.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 11/06/2007 12:14 PM
See, this is why I just use averages to represent these things. Because all MathHammer should ever do is give you an idea or an approximation of what it will take to do something in game.

Yes, I've done the Statistics courses, I get what you're saying, but from my perspective that level of analysis isn't justified for the application.

Using averges is fine, just stick to stating things in terms of averages else you can end up giving out pretty inaccurate info, even in terms of just approximation.

"if you have a unit of 12 Lootas open fire on a Falcon and you roll a 5 or 6 for the number of shots (3 per model), you have almost a 50% chance of getting an Immobilized or Destroyed result. "

Which is about 140% of the true figure, which seems awfully way out for a useful approximation.

Posted By shirou on 11/06/2007 10:58 AM
Hey, I just want to say that I've really been enjoying this analysis.  I can't wait to face the new Orks on the battlefield.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 11/05/2007 6:47 AM

 

Some people may disagree on the methods of statistics used for Lootas, but if there is one thing that everyone can agree on is that a unit of Lootas is one of the few credible threats to a Holofields + Spirit Stones Grav Tank in 40k.  Fact is that if a Mech Eldar player has to spend a turn in LOS and range of a unit of Lootas they will not like it. 

Have to chime in here on the tankboyz. Lootas are a primary choice, but Tankbustas come in a close second. Mass of shots are well and good, but ignoring saves can make a huge difference. I had a carnifex with stranglers marching down the center of the field, and even though I had better targets, I had to get rid of him and his TL barbed strangler. The Lootas struggled with him, and after the dust had cleared on several rounds of shooting, they had not scored a wound. They would have much better served shooting the, gaunts, but I needed the fex dead. Out marched the tankbustas and in one turn inflicted 3 wounds. It's like with termies, spamming them with hits is all and good, but ignoring the save is better. It also can take a lot fewer shots to bring him down.

I wouldn't take large tankbusta units, but a 5-6 man unit is about the cost of what I used to field, and has a lot more shots. In this version you have a greater efficiency, as instead of ablative wounds you have more shots. I'll take this version, even with glory hounds .

Orks really have a problem dealing with low armour save and high AV, tankbustas help alleviate this fact. They aren't the end all be all, but they definitely do tasks lootas shouldn't be doing, I don't think I will field an ork army without them.

I've got two more questions to consider for our takktica

How will orks deal with death company?  I've been thinking about it and i think death company could be even more deadly to orks than other armies.  In my eldar army i can use tanks to protect my troops from the DC until they get dropped out and waste the DC with melta/rending goodness.

Other horde armies like IG have small squad sizes that allow their troops to be wiped out/ run away in one round so he can shoot the assaulters in the next turn.  Ork mobs need to be big to be effective.

With orks, there is no such thing.  I just keep imagining my BA buddy hiding his DC behind a big stone wall (which we play with many of...) or area terrain that blocks LOS or even behind his tanks, then jump packing out and assaulting a slogging squad of 20 boyz.  Now given the speed of DC, if done right, won't allow me to shoot them really and he would likely have enough speed to assault in a way that avoids the PK nob.  First round he wipes out all the orks in their killzone no prob and i get no attacks, but orks are fearless (or close to it) and outnumber him so they stay.  Pile in, my turn, combat comes around and he attacks.  He would likely kill the rest of the unit w/o my nob getting attacks.  His turn, rinse and repeat with the next closest squad.

The only thing i can see doing is counter assaulting with more orks during your turn.  If you are planning on a shooty horde (like i am) then assaulting his DC with any shootas will keep them from shooting anyone else.  Now if you can manage to hide stormboyz around your shootas for a counter assault that would be good, but they might be needed to tie up his shooty marines (devestators come to mind...).

If anyone would like to suggest a tactic for killing these monsters I think it would be helpful to anyone with BAs in their meta.

Second question isn't one that deals with list building or battlefield manouvers, but more on the acquisition of models...

From what i've seen lootas are going to come in boxes of 4+mek (woohoo for making us use a crappy guy) how are you going to get your fix of ~24 lootas per army? Thats 5 boxes if you use the mek (i sure don't want to) or 6 if you are going to drop the meks.  Judging by the size of the models ive seen...they are about as large as termies which go for 50$ a box.  Now termies are 40 pts and lootas only xx, but i can still see GW sticking us with a 30$ price for 5 guys which we need a lot of.  I sure don't wanna spend 150+$ getting few hundred points of models, and im sure no one else does either.  So, how will you pick up those lootas if they are this expensive?

I was thinking picking up marine autocannons and sticking em on some boyz for cheap and easy.  Not sure if autocannons could 'count as' deffgunz though.

edit: I went ahead and got rid of some orky pt values i threw in there....

I'm using old skool Deathskull kustom kombi weapons as my lootas. Dunno if they're a cheaper option though to be honest.

As for dealing with death company, counter assault is the way forward here. Stormboys in a shooty horde are essential for this. Trukkers can do the same thing. I'm not too worried about the Death Company to be honest.

Death Co are a hard unit to deal with for the Boyz, no question. I was thinking about writing up a section on "problem units" for Orks to deal with, and if there ever was one, Death Co are it.

On the charge they will tear an Ork unit a new one, and then some. Their 3+ Saves and FNP mean they generally don't care about our shooting, which now looks like it will focus on just overloading saves instead of bypassing them.

There is one way to deal with these units of death that hit with high I and WS (or high rate of hits, like Death Co with Chaplain, Harlies, Stealers, etc) for any army: Multi-Charge them. These units are generally going to be small (due to cost) and their potency is due to high number of attacks per model.

The trick is to double or triple charge with 3 units. By forcing them to split attacks (since models in B2B have to attack the unit they're in B2B with in a multi assault), they can't clear kill zones and then things get to swing back, like Power Klaws that ignore their armor and FNP.

This works great for armies like infantry heavy IG for dealing with Harlies, BTW.

Now for Orks one of the things you can do is to set them up for the tarpit. Once deployed, you can set out a mob of Boyz and send them out for taking the charge. The trick is to set it up so the Nob is nicely buried, but the models are nice and spread out, making it hard for them to get a large chunk of a kill zone in CC, so even if they inflict a ton of casualties, they can't kill a lot of models because of the CC killzone rules.

After you lose the assault, you're fearless, stay in, and then pile in to give enough bodies to soak for the PK Nob to swing, since after the charge (when the Chaplains re-rolls and their S5 is gone) they're far less dangerous. Then you counter charge with as many squads as you can afford and hope the PK's do their duty and/or that you get some wounds past their 3+ and FNP saves.

You could always just give them a sacrifice unit, let it die, then drop a boomgun, tankbusta boys mob, or shokkattack gun onto their heads. S8 means no FNP, ap 3 means no armor save. Of course tankbustas need to have no other vehicles in LOS and a big mek with a shokkattack gun can do it but your rolling for strength.

My point is, the way to take out Death Co. is to remove one of their two saves. In shooting that means AP 3 guns or S8 weapons, in HTH that means powerweapons. I think with the new guns that are around it will be easier to deal with them than before. Not a cake walk to be sure, but easier.

Posted By LightningGus on 11/06/2007 4:02 PM

Second question isn't one that deals with list building or battlefield manouvers, but more on the acquisition of models...

From what i've seen lootas are going to come in boxes of 4+mek (woohoo for making us use a crappy guy) how are you going to get your fix of ~24 lootas per army? Thats 5 boxes if you use the mek (i sure don't want to) or 6 if you are going to drop the meks.  Judging by the size of the models ive seen...they are about as large as termies which go for 50$ a box.  Now termies are 40 pts and lootas only xx, but i can still see GW sticking us with a 30$ price for 5 guys which we need a lot of.  I sure don't wanna spend 150+$ getting few hundred points of models, and im sure no one else does either.  So, how will you pick up those lootas if they are this expensive?

I was thinking picking up marine autocannons and sticking em on some boyz for cheap and easy.  Not sure if autocannons could 'count as' deffgunz though.

edit: I went ahead and got rid of some orky pt values i threw in there....

  Personally, I have tons of Imperial Guard / Space Marine / Eldar heavy weapons in my bitz box.  I'll shop 'em up and glue the pieces together and give them to plastic Boyz.  That's pretty much what deffguns are anyway, right?

Hi,

I signed up just to ask a simple question in the taktika.

Why has nobody considered taking a cheap shooty Battlewagon to put the Loota's in?

Combining armour 14 at the front with the 48" range of the Deffguns seems common sense to me.

I'm not as tactically sound as some of the obviously tournament savvy players here but having a big tank in the backfield seems like a much more reliable way of deploying the Lootas than worrying about optimising cover and line of sight. Wouldn't having them armoured up and able to be put in the backfield with the best lines of sight cause even more fear in a mech eldar army?

Taking the option in a tourney means that if you are going to face some nasty Tau guns you can choose to mount a different unit in the Battlewagon, or just leave it empty.

Surely the points cost of a bare bones Battlewagon would be mitigated by using it as a shield?

Another bonus is that it prevents the unit being used and abused by the Fzorgle.

There are probably many, many more bonuses to using the cheap armour shield option of deploying the Loota's but with just these few it seems very much like a good option that has been ignored.

It's not a good idea because putting them in an AV14 open topped transport means that it has to stay still for them to fire (they have heavy weapons) and you're exposing them to the vulnerability that generally keeps them safe:

People take lots of long range anti-tank guns that will make a mockery of AV14. People don't have long range anti-horde weapons that can really hurt the Lootas, especially in cover.

Heck one of the best benefits to the Ork army, is that you can do a pure infantry horde of 120+ models even at 1500 points. That screws with so many lists that kit out on anti-tank guns to deal with the majority of powerful armies in play.

You can say that again: my first stab at converting one of my fun all foot lists (20 Kommandos, 60 Sluggas, 20 Shootas, 40 Grots and a Lobba battery) to the new Codex stats and points costs dropped it from 1500 points to 1270! I am down 3 Rokkit Launchas and a Big Shoota, but have 230 points to buy something to make up for it...

johno

I find it highly ironic that Tankbustas are only good against nids, because they have no vehicles!

2x warphead lead foot slogging orks are pretty damn scary. the warpheads allows you to do so many things. they are anti-tank, anti meq, can teleport your boys, call the waggggghhhh, and can hold their own in close combat.

 

The one thing that's really troubling me about the Orks is their ability to take out AV14 vehicles. With AV13 enough Rokkits or even Lootas in a pinch should be able to reliably take 'em out, but AV14 is a different story.

Obviously Lootas can't help against AV14 and Considering Rokkits only have a 24" range it is kind of hard to get too many shots against a particular vehicle in any given turn without getting way too close. I'm also not a fan of relying on CC attacks to take down enemy vehicles because:

• A) Vehicles can usually move far enough to make it difficult for infantry to even reach them, and
• B) Even if you can reach them (like with DethKoptas or Stormboyz Nobs) if you need a '6' to hit something and another '6' to glance it, your chances are really, really slim of taking that vehicle out and if you fail your squad is usually left hanging out to dry in the opponent's next shooting phase.

 

But there really are no good options here.

• The Boomgun and Shokk Attack guns are both Ordnance, which as anyone who has played with or against IG knows, Ordnance is very, very iffy against vehicles in 4th edition (since you scatter 2/3 of the time and if the hole scatters off the vehicle your shot is not going to do anything).
• Kannons in Big Gunz batteries are only S8 (and you still need to roll 'to hit' on a 5+).
• Zzap guns are a big mystery the way the rules are written.
• Do you roll for one Strength for the whole battery? If so, and you roll and '11' or '12' do you only lose one Gretchin crew, or one for each weapon? When do you roll for the Strength of the battery, before or after selecting a target?
• And actually, no matter what the answer those Zzap questions the fact that Big Gunz batteries are only 36" range, move or shoot, with a BS of 2 and are extremely suceptible to morale checks makes them an iffy choice at best.

 

So what else does that leave us with?

• S10 Zzap powers on a wierdboy? You only have a 1 in 6 chance of even getting that power each turn and you'd still need to roll a 5+ to hit.
• Kustom Mega Blastas on Meks or Kans/Dreds? Still only S8 and needing a 5+ to hit.
• Zzap guns and Rokkits on a Battlewagon? still very, very unreliable (all need 5+ to hit, Rokkits need a '6' to glance and the Zzap gun is still completely random).

 

Am I missing anything here? I don't think so. It seems that GW has decided to make Orks' achilles heel AV14 vehicles. Because of the Tankbustas +1 Penetration in the old codex AV14 besides the Monolith was do-able, but now?

It seems the best viable option is just to swamp the thing with tons of Rokkits or charge with multiple powerklaws and hope to get lucky.

I fear any marine player crazy enough to bring mutiple Crusaders in their army is just going to work over any Ork players they run into.

 

 

 

yak, Grots and anything they man are BS3 now.

As for the Shokk Attack Gun and other Ordnance, I really don't think the fact that they're Ordnance detracts from their AT capabilities. In any other army sure, but we're talking about Orks here. They only hit 1/3 of the time with normal weapons, so Ordnance is really a good thing--you have the same chance to "hit", and even when you "miss," there's still a chance you'll roll low for scatter and still hit.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/07/2007 8:07 PM
yak, Grots and anything they man are BS3 now.

As for the Shokk Attack Gun and other Ordnance, I really don't think the fact that they're Ordnance detracts from their AT capabilities. In any other army sure, but we're talking about Orks here. They only hit 1/3 of the time with normal weapons, so Ordnance is really a good thing--you have the same chance to "hit", and even when you "miss," there's still a chance you'll roll low for scatter and still hit.

Oh, that is good news. I didn't notice that at all (grots being BS3). I might just try out a battery of Zzap guns with ammo runts.

As for Ordnance we have the S8 of the Boomgun, which is still going to struggle with AV14 regardless of whether you hit or not.

Then you have the Zzap gun which because its greatest strength (AP2) is worthless against vehicles, you would really be wasting a weapon that will devestate most any infantry (unless Strength lower than 5 is rolled) to fire at a vehicle that you're only going to have a chance to affect if you roll really lucky with your Strength roll (9+, not counting 5,5).

 

 

What do ammo runts do?

At STR 2d6, the average strength of a Zap gun is still 7. If you're counting on
Zzap gun to be a reliable source of STR 8+ fire you're going to want at least
two full crews. (for the two guns to fire better than average)

So the reason you're taking Zzap guns isn't to blow up high AV vehicles, but
to get the secondary effect (crew shaken) on glancing shots.

Yep, I noticed that early on. Armour save of 2+ and AV14 vehicles seem to be an Achilles heel of orks. What is the answer for terminators? CC or a lot of shots.

AV14 has few sure things. Almost everything tops out at 8 or is random. So you are left with the iffy zap guns, weirdboyz, PK nobs and the STR 9 Wreckin' Ball that hits any unengaged unit within 2" of the ball at the beginning of assault on a 4+.

And lastly, tankbustas with tankbusta bombs, which are now only on tankbustas along with the Str 10 Tankhammer.

It really seems the only "reliable" high str attacks are again in CC, whether from a vehicle or inf.

Ammo runts allow a reroll.

Ammo runts let you reroll your to hit roll. Ammo runts, great idea, horrible execution. They work for big guns but thats it. In the old codex any character could take them (up to three) and any model could use them as long as they were in BTB with that model. Now only the model that purchased the ammorunt can use it, and any model that could really bennifit from them (I.E. meks with KMBs) they seem to not be able to take them. Too bad.

Anyway, I too saw the lack of AV14 power punch, but I'm wondering about the Deff Rolla. It causes D6 S10 hits on any unit it tankshocks. You can now tankshock vehicles with a lower AV value as your front armor. The wording is funky for the Deff Rolla. You cause hits, no to hit rolls are needed. That means auto hitting skimmers, or anything else regardless of how far it moved.

The question is what is the AP of the attack. It doesn't say. Weapons with an AP of (-) can only cause glancing hits. But the AP of the deff rolla isn't (-), its just not listed at all. I wonder how that works against models as well. I guess termies will still get their 2+ save.

Of course this doesn't help against the monolith or Landraider, and its only an effective 13" range, but it would be fun.

A unit of tankbustas can get two tankbusting hammers Those are S10 and your going to get 6 attacks with them on the charge. Thats enough attacks to get shots in against skimmers. Of course getting the boys close enough to hit the vehicle is the trick. And of course tankbusta bombs are the same as before.

Mathhammer time... woot!!!

Lets just look at a full unit of tankbustas with two hammers and three bombsquigs against a landraider. Lets assume the landraider only moved 6" so it could fire all of its guns.

Shooting

Rokkits - 12/1 shots, 4/1 hits, 1/6 glances, 1/6 destroyed = 1/9
Bomb squigs - 3/1 shots, 5/6 hits, 1/6 glances, 1/6 destroyed, = 5/72

for a total of 13/72 or 18 percent chance of killing it in one round of shooting.

Charging -

Boys with bombs - 13/1 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/2 damage result = 13/4

of those 13/4, 1/3 will glance, 1/6 destroy = 13/72
of those 13/4, 2/3 will pen, 1/2 will destoy = 26/24 for a total of 13/72 + 26/24 = 182/144 = 91/72

Boys with hammers - 6/1 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/2 damage result = 6/4

of those 6/4, 1/3 will glance, 1/6 will destroy = 6/72
of those 6/4, 2/3 will pen, 1/2 will destroy = 12/24 for a total of 6/72 + 12/24 = 84/144 = 42/72

For a grand assault total of 133/72

So between shooting and assaulting we have a 13/72 + 133/72 = 146/72= 2.02

So the boys have a 202% chance of killing a landraider if a full squad shoots and assaults it in one turn and that landraider only moved 6" that turn. Had it moved the full 12" it would have been 79.5% chance of killing it in one turn.

Wow, thats a whole lot of potentially worthless information. But I know that if I didn't get it out of my head I wouldn't have been able to sleep tonight. Thanks for listening to my rambling, and have a great evening.

Um, you should never arrive at a greater than 100% (or even exactly 100%) chance to destroy a vehicle. What you've calculated is actually the average number of Land Raiders such a squad would destroy per turn, were they allowed to direct their attacks at a unit of Land Raiders equal in size to the number of attacks they put out.

 

But the point is, unless your opponent is pretty terrible, he's never going to let Tankbustas get anywhere near his Land Raider, and that is the whole point.

If an opponent was crazy enough to move within Assault range of Tankbustas you can be damn sure he's going to move more than 12" to make sure you're hitting on sixes (perhaps he's going for a last second table quarter grab, for example).

The reality is, the only way Tankbustas are going to get to charge a vehicle is if it somehow gets immobilized really near them, they're able to hop out of a Battlewagon/looted wagon and assault or your opponent is a little 'slow'.

None of those scenarios are the kind of thing you'd want to build a battle plan around. Certainly keeping them in a Battlewagon is the most likely choice, but if you're moving the Wagon forward to get near enemy vehicles its likely going to open your BW up for side shots which is likely going to ruin your plans anyway.

 

Posted By yakface on 11/07/2007 7:56 PM

 S10 Zzap powers on a wierdboy? You only have a 1 in 6 chance of even getting that power each turn and you'd still need to roll a 5+ to hit.

Weirdboy powers automatically hit...

To make matters worse we don't know if you roll for the strength of a Zzap gun before or after you choose your target. As you need to roll 8+ to have any chance at all you are below evenodds before you start rolling to hit.

"Each time the Zzap gun battery is fired roll 2d6 to determine its strength" note that while its fired not before choosing your target, we can be sure of this because you can lose a grot but the shot astill counts as being fired, so you determine strength when the trrigger is pulled.

I cannot see a way to interpret this as allowing you to roll S then choose a target.

This makes Zzap guns highly unreliable vehicle killers.

?Glory Hogs?

While I can se how it reads I cant imagine why GW would want to include such a rule. It is leading me towards one of two possibilities:

1. Either the entire leak is a hoax/testing the waters with some rules inclusions that they have no intention of making to print. After all even GW cannot be that stupid, can't they...

2. Or the rules was intended to mean that Tankbustas must fire on a vehicle in range if they can see it regardless of closer targets. 'Regardless of range' means regardless of distance to closer targets and priority tests. This would make sense (as a rule, not as RAW), as the squad are Ld 7 and likely too small to get a good Mob check a Tankbusta squad would be forced to fire on the closest unit (likely an infantry screen) now you can only screen with a sacrificial vehicle. Allowing for how badly written GW rules can be I have a strong feeling this is what they intended, maybe as before GW will consider us the stupid ones for not recognising how the rules were intended to be read.

I was arguing this with Therion in my latest army list post: http://www.dakkadakka.com/CommunityForums/tabid/56/view/topic/postid/204299/forumid/14/tpage/1/Default.aspx#204400

Basically, I'm betting on a Boss with Bike to do my AV14 lifting for me.  Against Land Raiders or Leman Russes, i figure he can do his duty.  The downside is that against Liths you need that 6 to get your hits.  Now my boss variant has 7 attacks on the charge, so I should get at least one 6, but then you need a 4+ to pen.  Things aren't fun here, but like Yak and others are pointing out, I just don't see any other way to deal with AV14 other than using PK's in Close Combat.  Nobs are 5 attacks each on the charge, so if you manage to charge a couple into some tanks they should go down, even 'liths.  Given that Monoliths like to get real close and flux you, getting charges off will be easy.  That's until the Necron player realizes that Ork shooting relies on making you fail saves, and then keeps the Monolith nice and far away just for re-rolling WBB's.

As far as Russes and the like go, it's going to be hard without the Boss on bike to charge in, maybe even get swipes at side armor.

Posted By yakface on 11/07/2007 7:56 PM

 

The one thing that's really troubling me about the Orks is their ability to take out AV14 vehicles. With AV13 enough Rokkits or even Lootas in a pinch should be able to reliably take 'em out, but AV14 is a different story.

Obviously Lootas can't help against AV14 and Considering Rokkits only have a 24" range it is kind of hard to get too many shots against a particular vehicle in any given turn without getting way too close. I'm also not a fan of relying on CC attacks to take down enemy vehicles because:

• A) Vehicles can usually move far enough to make it difficult for infantry to even reach them, and
• B) Even if you can reach them (like with DethKoptas or Stormboyz Nobs) if you need a '6' to hit something and another '6' to glance it, your chances are really, really slim of taking that vehicle out and if you fail your squad is usually left hanging out to dry in the opponent's next shooting phase.

 

But there really are no good options here.

• The Boomgun and Shokk Attack guns are both Ordnance, which as anyone who has played with or against IG knows, Ordnance is very, very iffy against vehicles in 4th edition (since you scatter 2/3 of the time and if the hole scatters off the vehicle your shot is not going to do anything).
• Kannons in Big Gunz batteries are only S8 (and you still need to roll 'to hit' on a 5+).
• Zzap guns are a big mystery the way the rules are written.
• Do you roll for one Strength for the whole battery? If so, and you roll and '11' or '12' do you only lose one Gretchin crew, or one for each weapon? When do you roll for the Strength of the battery, before or after selecting a target?
• And actually, no matter what the answer those Zzap questions the fact that Big Gunz batteries are only 36" range, move or shoot, with a BS of 2 and are extremely suceptible to morale checks makes them an iffy choice at best.

 

So what else does that leave us with?

• S10 Zzap powers on a wierdboy? You only have a 1 in 6 chance of even getting that power each turn and you'd still need to roll a 5+ to hit.
• Kustom Mega Blastas on Meks or Kans/Dreds? Still only S8 and needing a 5+ to hit.
• Zzap guns and Rokkits on a Battlewagon? still very, very unreliable (all need 5+ to hit, Rokkits need a '6' to glance and the Zzap gun is still completely random).

 

Am I missing anything here? I don't think so. It seems that GW has decided to make Orks' achilles heel AV14 vehicles. Because of the Tankbustas +1 Penetration in the old codex AV14 besides the Monolith was do-able, but now?

It seems the best viable option is just to swamp the thing with tons of Rokkits or charge with multiple powerklaws and hope to get lucky.

I fear any marine player crazy enough to bring mutiple Crusaders in their army is just going to work over any Ork players they run into.

 

 

 

The zap and frazzle ability for warpheads and weird boys are auto hitting. it says it right there in the codex. the warp heads are a great anit tank measure. they can reroll psy dice and teleport units around the map. stick them with a unit of tanke busters. teleport behind a tank and let lose a salvo of rokkits.

Oh and zap is 36 range auto hit MELTA. so it will have a decent chance to knock out a land raider. Monitlith is hard to deal with for every army, not just orks.

Where are you seeing that the Zaap still autohits? There isn't anything in the book about that anymore at all from what I can see.

Likewise, the Warphead's powers are random, even with the re-roll.  I wouldn't count on things like that working well for AT power.

And Monoliths aren't hard for Marines, Chaos, IG, Nids, or Tau to deal with.  All you need is massed Lascannons or better, which all of those lists can do and down she goes.

zzap power, not zap cannon.

Like I said before, yes the psychic Zzap auto-hits...

Oh yeah, the power hits, the gun doesn't.

Sorry about taking so long for the troops section. School and work have both been bleeding me dry. Hopefully I'll have the troops section done by tomorrow.

No worries...School is more important...And it's not like you're the only one who can post about them

Well, I may as well head you off at the pass and ask that you include something about mobz of boyz in battlewagons. Does this seem like a viable unit?

Like the other units (Burnas) I'll mention Boyz in a Battlewagon and differences in viability between them - though a lot of that will go in the actual BW entry.

If I don't get anything up today, expect it by Sunday. I'm being sent out on business again and finishing up the tactica on the flight may be just the thing to eventually get me to sleep!

Some things...

Weirdboy Zzap is essentially a slightly worse BS2 weapon if you really want it and have a warphead who's prepared to risk a case of explody 'ead to get it.. 1 in every ten turns (I mean 10% chance or w/e, formalised statistics is not my forte) you could score a pen hit on a Monolith, so it's not 'reliable'. Improves against other vehicles like Land Raiders with Melta, but then psy hoods come into play perhaps.

However, Zogwort is downright scary to Necron Lords, and god forbid, C'tan (no pun intended).

Wreckin' balls aren't bad, and cheap as chips on battlewagons. Decent too, as by my reading can be used while crew shaken/stunned. Vehicles aren't really ever optimal vs Necrons, but take-all-comers lists could often find room for a Battlewagon or two, with say, Ard Top, Wreckin' Ball, Grabbin' klaw, and perhaps any of Grot riggers, Boardin' Plank, armour plates and Red Paint Job. Parking one of these in front of a lith portal would be annoying, and denying a teleport move at a crucial moment could swing a win. Zaap guns are priced okay but go to BS2 on Battlewagons

Even though they hit on 6's, a forward vehicle like a lith is probably still not going to want to go near multiple Str 10 things like Kanz without a good reason for doing so. The Heavy support is there and that section hasn't been done yet, but I think these guys are 'competitive' and sitting in the top half of the 6 units from that FOC entry, the other's being Battlewagons and Big Gunz (BS3!)

good point, a big gun on a battlewagon is BS2, as opposed to BS3 when in a grot Big Gunz crew - which seems inconsistent and a bit unfluffy (is it crewed by orks when on a wagon?), although i can see why GW would want to avoid having different BS for different weapons on the same vehicle, and it does perhaps explain the relative cheapness of the battlewagon versions...

and I disagree re Wrecking Balls - as they're operated by the crew, shouldn't they be affected by crew stunned/shaken like any other weapon?

They're not weapons, more like a hth attack. Remember, vehicles can still tank shock when shaken, and walkers can still fight in hth when shaken.

Why can't the zzap gun auto hit like it used to, was that so wronge? I've also noticed that according to the entry on pg 51.  The zzap gun has lost its melta ability.  Sucks to be it.

As for battlewagons It has also occured to me that battlewagons need to spend the points on at least one weapon, as they no longer come with them. The reason being that without a single gun, a roll of weapon destroyed will now immobilize the battlewagon. That could get annoying really quickly.

And I'm still no convinced with big gunz batteries.  They didn't go well in the last codex, and I don't see them working that well now.  A slight change in BS isn't going to help.   And its still debatable if they can move and shoot.  They also changed how hits against them work.  I guess now its just evenly spread around.  That could be a little abusive as all high strength hits will be alloted to the crew and all low strength hits will be given to the guns.  Also now it appears that guns are no longer destroyed on any pen or glance result.  You have to go through the normal vehicle charts.

This unit is just messed up.

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/10/2007 7:24 AM
Why can't the zzap gun auto hit like it used to, was that so wronge? I've also noticed that according to the entry on pg 51.  The zzap gun has lost its melta ability.  Sucks to be it.

As for battlewagons It has also occured to me that battlewagons need to spend the points on at least one weapon, as they no longer come with them. The reason being that without a single gun, a roll of weapon destroyed will now immobilize the battlewagon. That could get annoying really quickly.

And I'm still no convinced with big gunz batteries.  They didn't go well in the last codex, and I don't see them working that well now.  A slight change in BS isn't going to help.   And its still debatable if they can move and shoot.  They also changed how hits against them work.  I guess now its just evenly spread around.  That could be a little abusive as all high strength hits will be alloted to the crew and all low strength hits will be given to the guns.  Also now it appears that guns are no longer destroyed on any pen or glance result.  You have to go through the normal vehicle charts.

This unit is just messed up.

Big Gun batteries are 'artillery' so they follow the artillery rules in the rulebook, which are similar in most ways to the old rules from the Ork codex (with a few more clarifiers).

We've had the argument several times about whether artillery in artillery units can move and fire and although it isn't clear, the RAW do indicate that Artillery units cannot move and fire unless specified otherwise (which the Ork Guns don't). Following the Artillery rules you don't get to choose which hit strikes which model,  you randomly roll like before, and yes guns are essentially destroyed on a glance or pen. You need to check out page 56 of the rulebook.

yakface wrote:

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/10/2007 7:24 AM
Why can't the zzap gun auto hit like it used to, was that so wronge? I've also noticed that according to the entry on pg 51.  The zzap gun has lost its melta ability.  Sucks to be it.

As for battlewagons It has also occured to me that battlewagons need to spend the points on at least one weapon, as they no longer come with them. The reason being that without a single gun, a roll of weapon destroyed will now immobilize the battlewagon. That could get annoying really quickly.

And I'm still no convinced with big gunz batteries.  They didn't go well in the last codex, and I don't see them working that well now.  A slight change in BS isn't going to help.   And its still debatable if they can move and shoot.  They also changed how hits against them work.  I guess now its just evenly spread around.  That could be a little abusive as all high strength hits will be alloted to the crew and all low strength hits will be given to the guns.  Also now it appears that guns are no longer destroyed on any pen or glance result.  You have to go through the normal vehicle charts.

This unit is just messed up.

Big Gun batteries are 'artillery' so they follow the artillery rules in the rulebook, which are similar in most ways to the old rules from the Ork codex (with a few more clarifiers).

We've had the argument several times about whether artillery in artillery units can move and fire and although it isn't clear, the RAW do indicate that Artillery units cannot move and fire unless specified otherwise (which the Ork Guns don't). Following the Artillery rules you don't get to choose which hit strikes which model,  you randomly roll like before, and yes guns are essentially destroyed on a glance or pen. You need to check out page 56 of the rulebook.

D'oh, I completely missed that. Man, I've been a little off my game a lately.

I'm also not a fan of relying on CC attacks to take down enemy vehicles because:

A) Vehicles can usually move far enough to make it difficult for infantry to even reach them, and
B) Even if you can reach them (like with DethKoptas or Stormboyz Nobs) if you need a '6' to hit something and another '6' to glance it, your chances are really, really slim of taking that vehicle out and if you fail your squad is usually left hanging out to dry in the opponent's next shooting phase.

Just noting a couple of things. Deffkoptas don't have S8 even with the buzzsaw, and nobs have S9 on the charge due to FC. Not that it means CC is a good way to attack vehicles, but it's not quite so bad...

I've played a few games with the new rules now.

Ld is the pits. I see no reason to take anything except large mobs of troops and stormboyz. Embrace the horde mentality, because trying to work around it appears to be an exercize in futility.

Bikes are completely unreliable. Even with a large starting mob of 8, lose two to shooting and you're testing on Ld7. And, eight is a lot of points to just lose. Forget about nob bikers, as they have the same morale issues and are even more expensive.

Lootas are ok, but the 48" range is not as easy to utilize as people are making it out to be. If you set them up so as to be useful on the first turn, you risk return fire. In one game I played, I lost 9 lootas off the bat to heavy bolter (and bad cover saves) fire. The survivors didn't break (!) but were rendered combat ineffective for the rest of the game. In another game, Dark Reapers accomplished the same thing.

If you're a trukk squad and you lose a combat, you will probably lose the whole mob to a sweeping advance. And, without the ability to swing simultaneously with Marines, losing combat is easier than you think, especially if you narrowly made the charge and didn't have many boyz engaged. This is also true of footsloggers who take a few hits on the way in.

The lack of a long-range pounder unit (looted russ/basilisk) allows opponents to hang back and pick their fights.

Hey Voodo,

I think you need to reformat what you've typed already for the new text editor.

Sorry about that, but its part of the growing pains of having a better site!

Wow, I never noticed bikes aren't fearless anymore! That makes them EXTREMELY fragile as far as LD goes. Didn't imagine T5 4+ inv save orks being fragile, but they really are :(

yakface wrote:
Hey Voodo,

I think you need to reformat what you've typed already for the new text editor.

Sorry about that, but its part of the growing pains of having a better site!

Oye!

I love the new site and text editor, but this will require some work on reformatting. I'll see if I can get to it soon when I get some down time out here. I've been so bloody busy with work stuff on this trip that I haven't even had free time on the plane to write up new parts of the tactica!

Arrrgh!

I don't know why I'm so impatient. I've only managed to collect, like, three Orks so far. At this rate, I won't need your tactica until 8th edition comes out.

Tactica Organization

Unit Evaluation

What I’m going to attempt to do is go through each unit in the new Ork Codex and evaluate its overall level of Utility (Bad, Semi-Competitive, and Competitive). Then we will go into various configuration options (if any) and identify optimal ones, fun alternatives, and what to avoid.

General Advice

I would like to come up with some general advice that will be useful to Ork players. One of the biggest topics here will be proper application of the “Waaaggh” move. Other areas can include identifying proper Ork arch types (shooty horde, Kult of Speed, etc) and the unit composition that makes up those choices. Anything else useful that should be communicated to wanna-be Warbosses can go here.

If you’re going to post something, please preface it with which section you’re writing for.




I’m going to move right on to evaluating the units, starting at the top with HQ.

Unit Evaluation: HQ

The special character HQ choices are all decent enough, but none of them stand out as obvious “take me over the standard choice!” like Eldrad, Lemartes, or Mephiston, I’m going to leave off discussing them for a while and focus on the main choices.

Warboss
Utility: Competitive

The Warboss has seen a significant upgrade in his stats with getting T5. He no longer fears instant death from S8 attacks, which includes 99% of all Power Fist attacks. His points have stayed modest, however he is lacking in a few crucial areas:

He can not take a power weapon.
He can not get a good armor save while staying mobile.

These two crucial options leave him somewhat limited in effective builds. Because the Warboss is no longer a mandatory character for an Ork army, there is no point to minimizing him out. If you want a minimal cheap HQ, there are better choices. So in order to make him effective you really have to make him a close combat unit. The only effective option he’s got here is the Power Klaw, either through the Klaw itself or Mega Armor. This leads to two eventual paths, one of which is readily more optimal: The Biker Boss.

Close Combat IC’s that can’t move quickly are near useless. The Warboss can be kitted out on a Warbike that gives him a 4+ armor save and a 4+ Cover save from shooting. It makes him T5(6) so he’s harder to wound for non-rending or no-power fist units. It also lets him be extremely mobile which can allow the Ork player to get into combat unmolested, since he is still an Independent Character and thus can not be shot at if he’s not the closest model to an enemy unit.

By abusing his IC status in this method, it should be very easy for Ork players to get the Boss into combat almost wherever they want him to be, which can include taking out units like Shooty Carnifex’s, non-powerfist squads, or almost anything that doesn’t have rending. He will need luck to charge headlong into a Demon Prince and come out living, but he’s decent enough vs. most HQ’s. He’s even got a good chance at taking down Hive Tyrants, especially if they’re carrying around some guns and didn’t take implant attack.

The key is understanding what he can and can not kill. Many times it’s better off playing conservatively, and some games you just have to sacrifice him to make him worthwhile. It’s not always a good idea to go up against enemy HQ’s, and some squads should be avoided at all costs. But if you use him right, I think he can be a great addition to any Ork army.

Building your Boss
When kitting the biker boss, there are some simple choices to take, below I’m going to summarize the best biker boss I think that can be built:

Warbike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body (5+ Inv), Attack Squig (+1 Attack).

The boss comes with a second CCW already, so this bumps him up to 6 Attacks, 7 on the Charge with a S10 power klaw. He will have to swing simultaneously with Power Fists, but he’s got the attacks and WS to do the damage.

The alternative is Mega Armor, which has its own host of problems with regards to movement. This nearly necessitates that your Warboss be mounted in a Trukk, joined to a unit in order to see combat. There isn’t much reason to take a Mega Armored Warboss, over the biker boss, but if I had to I’d kit him out as such:

Mega Armor, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

He’s got less attacks but is moderately more survivable from normal attacks than the Biker Boss. I say moderately because the Mega Armored Boss is T5, where the Biker Boss is T5(6), which makes it much harder for most things to put wounds on the boss (including Demon Princes, Hive Tyrants, and S6 Power Fists). Against the attacks that actually threaten the Warboss, they have the same invulnerable save.

After these two configurations I can’t see any other configurations for a Warboss to take. If you want something cheap, take a Mek or Weirdboy. If you’re taking a Warboss it should be because he’s effective and in terms of outright killyness, and it’s hard to get a better all rounder than the Biker Boss described above. And you certainly won’t get a decent warboss by taking options like the Combi shot weapons (which remove your ability to have 2CCW’s) or a Big Choppa, which is as useless in the new dex as it was in the old one.

Special Considerations
One thing about the Warboss is that taking him allows you to take a unit of Nobz or Meganobz as a troops choice. While this is not the most efficient thing that you could do in the new Dex, it is something very fun. Not every game is at a tournament, and sometimes sub-optimal units are very fun to use. If you’re looking to make an Ork army that is more for fun than for winning a GT, this is something to consider.

Big Mek
Utility: Competitive

The Big Mek is an interesting choice for an Ork army. He is more of a support unit than anything else. Because of his profile he’s not going to be a CC monster like the Warboss, more like a Nob on steroids. You can give him a power weapon, but it won’t get extra attacks for multiple CCW’s, and he’s only I4 on the charge. Suffice it to say, if you want a close combat character, the Mek is not for you. He can be made “decent” in close combat, but nothing as good as the Boss.

Building your Big Mek

The Big Mek brings two big support options to an army: The Kustom Force Field (KFF) or the Shokk Attack Gun (SAG). Sadly, the two can not be combined onto one Big Mek. You also can not combine either weapon with Mega Armor or a Warbike, which would have made either option much better for different reasons.

The KFF is defensive in nature and can be useful to support a horde of Boyz by giving them cover saves even out in the open. It is somewhat expensive and it’s only for units within 6”, although it no longer says that the whole unit must be within 6” to claim the cover save, which can extend the range over the old version. In fact, this is one of the most compelling reasons to take the new Big Mek. Because if the unit must be within 6”, but it doesn’t specify that the whole unit must be within 6” as the old version, then you are looking at the potential coverage area for a single Big Mek with KFF to be an absolutely huge area as it balloons up to cover an entire mob of 30, where only a few Boyz string along to be within 6” of the Big Mek. This is an interpretation, based on RAW for the Kustom Force Field. I just wanted to point this out as this potentially huge advantage for the Big Mek may be FAQ’ed away in the future or at the very least contested by opponents or judges in a tournament.

The SAG is offensive, and luckily it does not roll to hit but fires like an ordinance weapon. The problem is that while it’s potentially destructive, you end up with a 22% chance of a misfire. Not all the results are terrible for the misfire though, some are even better, so it’s actually still pretty good, even if a bit risky! I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that you have a 1/36 chance to roll a double six for the SAG result, which basically means that wherever the template touches is automatically removed from play. Yes, on the basic reading of the rules this is not instant death and can remove monstrous creatures wholesale. Granted this is not something you can plan on happening, but it shows the potential of the SAG. Additionally, this is one of the rare sources of AP2 that you can reliably get in an Ork list, which is something to be pointed out.

The benefits to either loadout is that you can abuse the Mek’s IC status to prevent him from being shot and in many cases, assaulted. With the KFF, by not joining him to any units keeps your cover save active where you want it, and with the SAG you can get a weapon that will be able to fire almost all game without worry about getting shot back.

The only question remains on how to finish kitting out the Big Mek. A lot of this depends on your choice of SAG or KFF. If the Mek has a KFF, it’s likely that he will eventually see CC, so giving him a burna or PK is not a bad option. Since the best use for a KFF Mek is in between big mobs of Boyz to distribute the cover save, many times he’ll be charging, which is when the Burna becomes an I4 S5 power weapon, NICE!

For the SAG Mek, I wouldn’t recommend giving him anything else. If he’s getting shot, he’s likely dead no matter what other options you give him, and if he’s in assault, it’s also probably something bad as well.

The Mek can be given other guns, but the best option is the Kustom Mega Blasta (KMB), which has almost as good a chance of wounding the Big Mek as it does actually hitting it’s target, so it should be avoided.

Special Considerations
One thing about the Big Mek is that taking him allows you to take a DeffDread as a troops choice. While this is not the most efficient thing that you could do in the new Dex, it is something very fun. Not every game is at a tournament, and sometimes sub-optimal units are very fun to use. If you’re looking to make an Ork army that is more for fun than for winning a GT, this is something to consider.

Weirdboy
Utility: Semi-Competitive

Believe it or not I feel that the Weirdboy makes almost as good of a second HQ choice as a SAG Big Mek. He has very little options, but he has the ability to significantly enhance your army.

First things first, you should always upgrade the Weirdboy to a Warphead. Rolling a 1 for your psychic power is not fun, and the re-roll is pretty essential to using the weird boy.

The main Utility that I see in a Weirdboy is the fact that you can get a “Waaagh” move off with him. The trick is sticking him in a giant unit (20 or more Boyz) to give him LD10, and then just pray for that 6 roll for your power. Don’t get the 6? Re-roll.

What I see with the Weirdboy is a way to make footslogging slugga boyz (an old favorite of previous Codex Orks players) at least somewhat viable. By even using two Weirdboyz, you have a little better than 50/50 to get a Waaagh power off each turn, not accounting for things like Pyschic Hoods or Runes of Warding.

After this kind of application, there really aren’t any other ways to use him. He’s not much good in a KoS or speedy kind of list, mainly because you can’t really rely on getting the Waaagh power. Still, I can see him being a fun choice, and if you’re looking for the dirt cheapest HQ you can get for an army that maxes out on units or troops, then a Weirdboy is a pretty good choice.

HQ Summary

Who knew that they could write a codex where each HQ choice is actually good enough to warrant taking? And a new dex where the special characters don’t completely overshadow their unit entries they are meant to replicate? I think it’s a pretty good sign for the section overall, because any time you actually have to think about what to take it’s a good thing.

This isn’t to say that there isn’t a “Winner” of the HQ selection. In terms of direct damage and reliability, I don’t think you can do much better than the Biker Boss outlined above. S10 Power Klaws come in handy against things like Monoliths or any AV14 Tank that can’t reliably be dealt with at range. Plus it’s always nice to have that extra fast close combat unit lying around.

Each HQ choice does bring about its own risks, and the Biker Boss is no exception. The thing that puts him over the others, in my opinion, is that you have the most control over his risk. By using him carefully, and abusing the hell out of his IC status, you can make sure he gets into a favorable close combat where he will certainly earn more than his points back. He can be used as a throw-away unit to cause disruption and still earn his keep in an army, or he can be played conservatively and thrown against targets he’s sure to wipe out with little risk of being killed (Las/Plas or Devastator squads really are not going to like the Biker Boss).

Still, the Biker Boss is not a clear-cut winner, like say a Hive Tyrant is for a Tyranid army. As stated by Yakface, “the type of army you are fielding will really determine what the 'winner' is going to be for your army.

If you are playing an KoS or Stormboy heavy army, then taking a Biker Boss is pretty much mandatory. If you are taking a shooty horde army then 2 Meks with SAGs can be a great idea because they fit in with the style of rest of the army and give you some much needed AP2 devestation (something you don't get too many other places in the list). If you're playing a horde assault army then a couple of Warpheads or a couple of Meks with KFFs (or one of each) would definitely help get your Boyz into combat more safely.”

Additionally, the Biker Boss costs as much as a budget Leman Russ Battle Tank. Two KFF Meks or two Warpheads would cost only marginally more points.


Unit Evaluation: Elites

The Elite section is pretty crowded in the new Dex, and sadly it’s also the beginning of the pattern for the rest of the codex: Lots of options, only a few really good choices.

This isn’t to say that there are units here that can be taken for fun and still be decent, but in terms of being competitive there are only one or two choices from this section that stand out as something to include in Ork tournament lists.

Nobz
Utility: Poor

Sadly the unit of Regular Nobz is pretty poor in terms of performance. Even in their “best” configurations

These are one of the sadder units in the codex, especially in light of similar units like Mega Nobz or Flash Gitz. They’re very expensive and don’t have any good options. They do have some fun configurations that aren’t half bad, but as you’ll find out they are the epitome of a mediocre unit that you can sink a ton of points into with little return. What’s worse is that they end up simply replicating what is already available in similar mobz for far less points.

Equipping the Nobz

Lets start with the obvious things not to take: Big Choppas or any of the shooty options. They all suck. This mob is made for CC, not shooting. If you want shooty Nobz take Flash Gitz.

There are a few things that can be done to make these guys decent:

-Painboss. This is an expensive upgrade, but it gives the unit Feel No Pain which is necessary for a unit with T4, 2W and a 6+ Save. Additionally he lets you give each model a 5+ Inv save; with an additional cost per model.

-Bike Upgrades for the unit make them even more expensive, but at least useful. Combined with the Painboss you can get a T4(5), 2W, 4+ Armor, 4+ Cover (always), and Feel No Pain unit. And if you want you can throw the Inv Save on there too. It’ll be as expensive as all get out, but it’ll be survivable.

As far as CC weapons, every Nob can take a Power Klaw, but it will be expensive. You’re likely better off only taking one in the mob, maybe two.

One upgrade that is pretty essential is taking a Waaagh Banner. This is the only unit that can take this, and it gives the unit +1WS, which when you think about it, on the charge the regular Nobz will hit with 5 Attacks each at WS5, S5, I4, and they have twin linked Big Shootas that run at half range.

Off the Bikes, they can take a Trukk or Battlewagon transport to help get to CC. Both have their plusses and minuses to their use. The Wagon is expensive but has the Armor of a Leman Russ and is open topped so you can assault. The Trukk is cheaper and faster, but more fragile. The only downside to the Battlewagon, besides the cost, is that it’s both expensive and non-scoring, unlike a Heavy Support Battlewagon. Because of this, if you’re going to stay on foot, I’m going to recommend the Trukk over the wagon, but it’s not completely a clear cut choice.

That all said, this mob will never be cheap, and their minimum costs will still be very expensive. At the high end you can get some expensive models that are pretty survivable. But this brings another problem: Leadership. Without numbers, these Boyz will run at the first sign of trouble. Get hit with an opposing power fist and lose combat? You very likely can run away. This is the problem for any Elite Ork unit which is saddled with poor LD and doesn’t have the Numbers to use the Mob Rule to keep fighting.

This unit can be used in friendly games as a heck of a points sink, but still a fun unit that can be effective. Much like how a Land Raider with Assault Terminators and a Chaplain isn’t exactly tournament worthy, but it is a fun unit to use in friendly games that can do wonderful things. So are kitted out Power Klaw Nobz.

Meganobz
Utility: Poor

This is one of those units that really aren’t all that good, but it’s not as bad as regular Nobz. For the points, they’re probably not worth it, but taken in a Trukk and used as a “super” styled Trukk mob, they can be pretty fun.

There isn’t any real choice to how to equip them, it’s just about the squad size. Your basic question is “Trukk or Battlewagon”, which has all the problems mentioned before. The Trukk is probably better, but a case can be made for the Battlewagon in fun games.

The crunch on these guys is that they’re Slow & Purposeful (so no +1 Attack for charging), and the fact that they have no Inv save. And again they have the problem that there will never be a lot of models in this unit, and if they get smacked by a Power Fist and you really start losing models fast (because of instant death), your expensive Meganobz are going to run away faster than a mob of grots.

They really epitomize the kind of unit that is fun to use and can be decent in fun games, but at a tournament they’re going to struggle to earn their keep.

Tankbustas
Utility: Poor

These guys are really one of the worst things to happen to a previously great unit. No more tank hunters, but they all get Rokkits! Wow sounds great right? Wrong. Due to their Glory Hogs special rule, they will always have to fire at a tank if it is in LOS, regardless of range. So if you have an empty Rhino sitting out in the field and the Tank Bustas are 6” away from a squad of Marines, they have to fire at the tank, despite the fact that you’d much rather fire at the Marines.

To top it all off, they’re expensive. In fact they’re the same points cost as the Burna Boyz and Lootas. The problem here is that they’re still T4 6+ save models, and they have to get close to fire their Rokkits. This is a recipe for failure, especially because they can not take a transport.

This is not to say that they do not have their uses. One area as pointed out by Yakface is area denial. “Bomb squigs (apparently) do not require line of sight to use (nor do they appear to be slowed by difficult or impassable terrain) you can take a minimum sized unit of Tankbustas, give them 3 bomb squigs and keep them hidden behind cover.

This can give you a scoring unit that has an 18" bubble that vehicles will be afraid to enter. Plus if you get really desperate you can always move the unit into the cover and get one round of desperation shooting off before your opponent obliterates them.

Overall they certainly aren't competitive but the squigg bombs deserve a little attention considering how few points they are.”


Equipping the Tankbustas:
Their upgrades are likewise cool, but pretty damn well useless. The issue being that Bomb Squigs have to get close, and the Tankhammer has to get even closer. There is no way a competent opponent is going to let them get anywhere near where they have to go to be worthwhile. Even upgrading the Nob is pointless, exchanging his Rokkit for a PK just isn’t good sense.

And it’s not like they really present a threat to AV14 tanks in the first place. Even if you buy 15 of them (which is a ridiculous amount of points), you will average a little less than one glance on AV14. They’re just not that good.

For fun, I can see putting 12 of them in an Open Topped Battlewagon (with a Killkannon) to just shoot at stuff like crazy, if you can get a target in range. They are a pretty bad choice no less, but if you can get close enough, it’ll be hilarious to set off Bomb Squigs!

Another Perspective

Not everyone agrees whole heartedly with my assessment of the Tankbustas, and 40kenthusiast presented a pretty well versed argument in favor of the Tankbustas being something worth considering.

“I really don't agree with you about the competitiveness of the Tankbusta boys. I feel that they are an excellent unit.

Every Ork has a rokkit. They are shooty orks. They are going to outshoot marines at 24, marines kill 2/3 * 1/2 vs. 1/3 * 5/6...cover doesn't change this as both sides are currently APing. They cost less than marines, and outshoot them.

Some other things:

1. Escalation. No Glory Hogs to worry about for 2 rounds as they wipe the opponents infantry off the field with a barrage of rokkits. When the vehicles do come in, the bustas are safely ensconced in good cover, ready and waiting to surge forth and return fire.

2. Kill 2 vehicles. With their bomb squigs the Glory Hogs are actually able to kill more than one vehicle in a turn. Shoot at a far away vehicle and release the squigs to get the closer one.

3. Fire magnet. A bunch of boys who each got rokkits may seem like an appetizing target, but remember that this is Codex: Orks we are talking about here. Da Boys are getting closer and closer, in trukks and fortresses, on jetbikes or jetpacks. If they take the time out to fire on your tankbustas and as a consequence get charged by a full boys mob, I think you'll be satisfied. Tankbustas in cover will require 2 or 3 squads fire to wipe out (at long range, rapid fire will cut em down, but if they are that close you'll crump em wif yer fists anyway).

I see the Glory Boys rule as being like the "Don't Touch That" rule on the looted basilisk last time around, its a small check on the power of a very nice unit, and orky in the extreme.

Here are the conditions that must be fulfilled before you lose your shots.

At the beginning of your turn
1. Vehicle in LOS
2. No vehicles within 30".
3. No friendly vehicle can be moved into a position to block LOS to the vehicle.
4. Tankbustas can't move in such a way as to lose their LOS to the vehicle.
5. Nobody else can pop the vehicle first

This may not be enough to change someone’s mind on Tankbustas, but maybe its cool that two reasonable people can read the same codex and come off with different ideas about a unit's viability.”

Burna Boyz
Utility: Poor

These poor Boyz shall be remembered as “The Little Mob that Could Have”. They could have been so good, they could have been a staple choice to take in many lists, if only they could take a Trukk.

Equipping the Burnas:

Do not upgrade any of them to Meks, it would be a crime against all Ork kind to commit such a travesty. You give up the burna for a Kustom Mega Blasta that has a good chance of frying the Mek shooting it instead of the enemy.

Using them is going to be rough and like Tank Bustas, they won’t work in escalation. As they are now, your only good bet is putting them in a Battlewagon to get them where they need to be (up close and then in CC). On foot, they’re an expensive mob that’s T4 6+ Save, and any opponent worth playing against is going to shoot them before they hit your lines.

In fact, their only Utility in fun games is in a Battle Wagon, Zooming to get into CC via Waaagh Move + Assault.

Kommandos
Utility: Semi-Competitive*

These Boyz just barely earn the rank of Semi-Competitive, especially in light of what they compete against in the Elites section. On their own however they can be a pretty good unit, and more importantly they can really provide you with a number of interesting tactical options.

It is also worth pointing out up front, that these guys are the cheapest Elites choice available, on a model by model basis.

Equipping the Kommandos

The way you equip them will depend largely on their intended use. They can take two of any special weapon (burna, rokkit, big shoota), regardless of mob size (max 15). The only upgrade I feel is useless is the Big Shoota, since if you want dakka you can get it elsewhere in the list. Rokkits and Burnas on the other hand absolutely shine in completely different areas.

First are Rokkits. One tactic that can be used is that for a cheap-as-chips squad, you can take 5 Kommandos and 2 Rokkits and use them as a throw-away unit that can infiltrate and with luck (and first turn), can take turn 1 shots at side armor or at skimmers that haven’t moved yet. This is a pretty useful unit that will die the moment something sneezes at them, but they are going to require immediate attention or there will be problems for the other player.

The only thing I don’t like here is that even vs. normal Tanks, you’re still relying on 2 Rokkits to do their job, that’s hitting on 5’s. That and the fact that their main Utility is really first turn dependent, which I don’t like. It’ll be awesome when it works, and they’re cheap enough to risk it many times, but there are always other units that those points could be spent on elsewhere. Still, if you like this sneaky git idea, then go for it.

The second method to equipping the Kommandos is to throw two burnas in the unit and then probably max out the squad and put in the obligatory Power Klaw Nob. Between infiltrate and Waaagh, they can do some damage. If you combo this with a Weirdboy or two and get a first turn Waaagh power, you can do some serious damage. Even without that, they’re a turn 2 hit and area denial unit. Not friggin bad.

As a side note, if you do go this route, add the Bosspole to the unit. With their small squad size it’s going to be rough getting them to stick around. Part of their Utility is the fact that they can tie units up nicely, they can’t do that if they run when they lose combat.

*Speshul Konsiderations:

One unit of Kommandos per army may forgo upgrading to a Nob and take Boss Snikrot instead. He carries a heaftier price tag than a PK Nob, and he can’t ignore armor saves, but he is something that pushes this unit from “Semi-Competitive” to “Competitive”.

His ambush rule allows the Ork player, if they so chose, to allow the unit to go into reserves and when available, they may enter play from any table edge.

This is a pretty big deal because of the possibilities it allows, this nearly guarantees them the charge on many units if your opponent isn’t careful and something is within 12” of a table edge, and if they are careful, it could be useful to declare the Waaagh and use Fleet to catch your target. And while Snikrot doesn’t ignore armor saves, he can be counted on to put a few wounds on almost anything, especially on the charge. It should be noted that if you do need anti-armor punch, two Burnas in the unit CAN ignore armor saves, making this the ideal unit to take down MEQ squads.

Hopefully it should go without saying, but if you’re going to run Snikrots mob, take Burnas and the max squad size. This unit will be expensive in almost any configuration you want to use for close assaults, which is a downside, but with Snikrot – you really stand a chance to make your points back. This is more so vs. certain armies (like Marines), but in general if they don’t make their points back they will certainly tie key units up at the right moment, which may not make back it’s points, but it can win you games in its own right and should not be ignored.

Lootas
Utility: Competitive

In true GW fashion, what used to be one of the worst units in the old Codex is back with absolutely amazing set of rules.

In every list, almost always in the Elite section, you find that one unit that just screams out “TAKE ME!” above all the other choices. This is one of those units for the Orks. It’s not because they’re much more survivable than the other Boyz, or because their damage output is amazing for their points (though it can be at times), but because you simply need them.

Lootas are the only unit in the Ork army that can reliably deal with tanks up to and including AV13 at long range. They are quite possibly the best anti-skimmer unit in the entire game. You will pay points for this ability, but it is available to you. And remember folks, any time you can put the screws to a Mech Eldar player with Orks – a Nob somewhere out there gets his Power Klaw.

Equipping the Lootas

They’re already equipped as well as any Ork. Upgrading any of them to a Mek will immediately relegate your rank from “Warboss” to “Grot” by any Ork players in a 2 mile radius who gets word that you actually exchanged the Deffgun for a Kustom Mega Blasta or something worse.

On to actually using the Lootas, their application is very specific. These Boys are expensive, and they’re still just T4 with a 6+ save. What they do have compared to other Elites that fit this criteria is a 48” range with a S7 AP4 gun that does D3 shots. To use Lootas effectively you will have to deploy them in cover where they will have a good line of fire to a good portion of the board.

That’s really all there is to using them. Their application once deployed is to sit still and just keep firing at anything that’s a target. They can put wounds on Dakka Fex’s, present a credible threat to any skimmer, even ones with Holofields+Spirit Stones, and can put glances on Predators.

Some people may disagree on the methods of statistics used for Lootas, but if there is one thing that everyone can agree on is that a unit of Lootas is one of the few credible threats to a Holofields + Spirit Stones Grav Tank in 40k. Fact is that if a Mech Eldar player has to spend a turn in LOS and range of a unit of Lootas they will not like it.

Likewise one unit of 12 can open fire on a Dakka Fex, at 48”, and depending on the number of shots for the unit can put anywhere from 2 to 8 wounds on it reliably, and once you get a Dakka Fex rolling that many saves on a 3+, he will start to go down. Now imagine firing this on a unit of Marines or equivalent and you see why they can be so devastating.

Because of these things, this is a unit that screams to be taken in multiples.

I recommend going with Mob sizes over 10. I’m finding that 12 to 14 is about the max I want to use, mostly on the lower side. One of their main problems is that they will never have a lot of models and they can’t get a Bosspole. So if they really start taking casualties, they will run. And if they’re low on models their LD will be poor to take target priority tests. So keeping the mob at a healthy size and in a place that will make engaging them difficult is crucial to using them well.

The thing to remember about Lootas is that unlike the other “really good” stuff in the Ork list, or in any list, is that while they are extremely potent, you have to use them well or you will see them die. These guys are not Terminators, they are not Harlies or Dragons delivered via Falcons, but I think they’re going to be used just as much as those units, despite not being as survivable. They leave very little room for error and will take skill to use, but when used correctly they can be devastating. And most importantly they do things that nothing else in the Ork list can replicate.

On the other hand

I feel that it should be pointed out that after some experience with the Lootas, they are indeed as killy as they seem to be. However, while they are something that should be taken in multiples I feel that maxing out on them would be a bad idea for two very important reasons:

1.) They are expensive and fragile
2.) You may not always get enough terrain to deploy them in safely with good LOS. This is especially true if you take three large squads of them.

So while this does not take away from Lootas being the premier Ork Elite choice, it does give pause to any player who thinks that they should therefore max out on them in any competitive list.

Elites Summary

With GW, and even with Phil Kelly, not everything in a codex can be useful, and Elites is a section that is crowded with a lot of bad choices and a few very good ones.

Competitively speaking, Lootas stand out above the rest of the choices like a Nob in a Grot Mob. Kommandos make a good showing, but ultimately in the context of the rest of the army, the Lootas are what really win out in a number of competitive builds – simply because they can reliably put down skimmers at very long range. It’s a fact of the Meta-game that you need to be able to glance at least 3 Falcons/Hammerheads per turn reliably. These Boyz give you that option and nothing else in the list can replicate that.

This is not to say the other units aren’t fun. In terms of character and fun, the choices in the Elites section is one of the best in the dex! When playing friendly games, there is no reason to ignore Meganobz in a Trukk or maybe even go nuts and put down a mob of Bike Nobz with a Painboy. And either unit can be Troops if you take a Warboss!

That is what makes the Ork dex so successful. If you want to be competitive at a tournament, you can. But if you want a crazy fun choice with a lot of Character, there is a wealth of options you can take. Just don’t expect them to do well in a very competitive environment.

I have to speak up having been an ork player.. having access to feel no pain may end up making nobs and flash gits actually useful.

since they can't save worth well anything having a 4+ to ignore that wound would save your mobbage from dying by the handfuls.

also Big choppas aren't exactly terrible now that they strike at initiative speed. the extra strength is helpful but not enough to cause instant death on most units

NaZ

Eh, I don't know about that. All it means is that FNP Nobz and FGs will be competing for AT fire instead of AP fire. Good if you're fielding lots of BWagons/Dreads/etc., not so useful if you're running a foot horde.

you would have to combine the nobz with the painboss AND cybork bodies for any decent success. invul 5+ then FNP if it really comes to that. cheaper than a mek with KFF and the idea of getting double saves against mass incoming fire seems like a good idea

NaZ

Something I have been looking at recently has been the Grabbin' Klaw. because of its enormous potetnial, against Falcons (the only thing that has) I would like to draw your attention to the wording. The klaw has a range of 2". Now as drawing range from the weapon is normal for vehicles this shouldnt normally be an issue. However 2" is rather short, put the Klaw on top of a battlewagon and it wont even reach the sides.

So I see arguement arising from players claiming that its 2" reach from the vehicle itself (quite reasonable) or equally reasonably mounting the klaw on a pivoting arm. Then how long can a pivotiong arm be before it is unfair. I can envisage a six inch long girder with the claw attached, on a casemate on the rear of a battlewagon. It wouldnt look odd. It will only give small clearance at the frunt, but by rotating around the sides and rear you could cover quite a ways.

As this is unregulated, I can see people using much longer booms to make 2" go a very long way, car aerials for instance. And if they dont then the plain fixed 2" klaw will reach little or nothing.

Fair point, and we can hope it will be FAQed. Probably just measuring from the vehicle is the best solution, as it keeps it balanced while allowing maximum freedom for creativity in modeling.

Just wondering if there's a tentative date for when the "Troops" section of the Tactica will arrive? (And of course, the "Heavy" and "Fast" sections too )

(And I realize "real life" must take precedence! I'm just eager to read it all and plan my future purchases accordingly!)

So write your own. I'm sure the happy people of Dakka will inform you on any mistakes or misperceptions you might have about one unit or another. While I applaud Voodoo Boys on his efforts so far, there are a few of his conclusions I personally don't agree with and as such will not be influencing my army lists. What has been written so far should not be considered law, more like guidelines. Which is why anyone should feel free to contribute their thoughts about any unit.

Ordinarily, that would be good advice.

BUT, I've got ZERO experience playing with or against Orks!

In fact, the last time I remember playing against Orks was back in 2nd edition, when taking Terminators against a SAG was a very bad idea...

So, at this point, I'm going to base my assumptions (!) on what to purchase/field after reading the advice of the "experts".

(Of course, that won't stop me from fielding stuff that I like purely based upon looks/fun factor, etc.)

Alpharius wrote:Ordinarily, that would be good advice.
In fact, the last time I remember playing against Orks was back in 2nd edition, when taking Terminators against a SAG was a very bad idea...

Hint: It still is!

great stuff voodoo. not that it would keep me from building a big mek on bike, but your thoughts are very interesting nonetheless.

and did I get that right. you can put Nobs on bikes AND give them cybork bodys? Monowheelmob, here I come. WAAAGH!

I'm looking forward to the rest of your tactica.

Orlanth wrote:?Glory Hogs?

While I can se how it reads I cant imagine why GW would want to include such a rule.

The answer is disturbingly simple:

To keep power gamers from spamming them against MEQ's*

Guys so far this makes for excellent theory hammer, and the theory hammer arguments have been very sound. But how many of you have tried this out yet? Speaking of which I have a question:

Assuming you can take a PK+armed Nob with a mob of Shootaboyz, why would you ever take regular slugga boyz in the first place? Does anyone else remember how ineffective these guys were in the previous edition (before the introduction of the previous codex)? To quote Mr. Chambers:

"...Boyz were reduced to being a 'delivery system' for the Nob, useful only to ensure that he didn't just get picked off by enemy fire."
-pg 9, U.K. White Dwarf 235

Bear in mind this was back in 3rd edition before rules for the Assault Phase became more refined. Nevertheless I'm worried the basics still apply: If most of my boyz are going to be shot up before they even reach close combat only for their Strength 3 attacks to bounce off MEQ armor, why not give them a Strength 4, Assault 2 weapon they can fire on the way? IMO It's well worth the loss of one attack.

For what it's worth I hope I'm wrong I love the idea of huge hordes of Orkz charging headfirst towards the enemy, waving their choppas in a frenzy only to get stuck in. Depriving all my boyz of their sluggas and choppas leaves me with a slight tear to my eye

On a sidenote: Now that boyz cost about the same as a guardsman am I the only one who thinks they're well-priced? ~175pts** for a fully decked mob and PK Nob strikes me as good value! I'll be taking at least 3 ...all with Rokkitz!

Your thoughts

*Translation: everyone.
**No you sneaky gitz that's not accurate!

I can see Sluggas being more useful if you run the dual weirdboyz. If you're constantly fleeting, you won't be doing much shooting, so the extra attacks are worth it.

So far most of the lists i have come up with are either lackings people or requier to meny to be static. Is there anyway to change this?

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:Assuming you can take a PK+armed Nob with a mob of Shootaboyz, why would you ever take regular slugga boyz in the first place?

My inkling, not borne out of any experience, is that trukk boyz will be more effective with sluggas. They simply won't have enough time, on the way in, to shoot at much.

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:Assuming you can take a PK+armed Nob with a mob of Shootaboyz, why would you ever take regular slugga boyz in the first place? Does anyone else remember how ineffective these guys were in the previous edition (before the introduction of the previous codex)?

You won’t get much value out of those guns when you’re piling out of a truck and into assault.

Sure, you still get to fire before assaulting with one more shot, but you lose but then you get the extra attack with the slugga boy in combat. The higher ST of the shooting attack makes it look like the better deal, but with rubbish BS and good WS it ends up working out the same against the WS 4, T 4 of an MEQ. Thing is, the slugga boy’s attacks count towards combat resolution, and he keeps getting his bonus attack every subsequent round as well.

So, basically, footslogging slugga boyz are rubbish, like they were in the old codex. But that’s probably a good thing, a troopers marching up the field to fight someone in hand to hand really should be rubbish, unless they’re a skilled infiltrator or superhumanly fast.

But piling out of a truck, the slugga boy has distinct advantages over the shoota boy.

Well it's taken me a really long time to get this continuing, and I'm sorry for the delay. Basically I was on travel for work, my responsibilities went through the roof, and I'm finishing up my Masters degree. All of that took up much of my time in the past two weeks and this has been delayed far too long! So without adieu, here is the Troops section!


Unit Evaluation: Troops

This is where all the excitement comes from in the new Ork dex. For the first time in a long time it looks like a horde army is not only viable, but potentially, dare I say it, top tier in a Warhammer 40k book.

All of this is because of the amazing Utility present in what looks to be an anemic troops section. Well as you’re going to see, despite there only being two unit entries there is a plethora of choice in the Troops section, and most of it is good!

Ork Boyz
Utility: Competitive

Phil Kelly rolled up the four main entries for Orks in the previous codex into one entry right here, and boy did he do a hell of a job.

The points cost for Ork Boyz is on par with Guardsmen, despite all the buffs Orks get to Morale and Assault. This, combined with the new special rules for Orks gives us a lot of options in how Boyz are used in game and has new implications for almost any configuration you can use for Orks in this entry.

Equipping your Boyz
Lets state up front a couple of generics:

Any Ork can be given Frag grenades for the normal price you’d expect to see it at.
The only special weapons Ork Boyz can have are either Big Shootas or Rokkits
Special weapon quantities are limited by the number of Boyz in the Mob. Basically you get 1 special weapon for every 10 Orks in a Mob, to a maximum of 3.

After all this you have two ways to arm your Boyz – Close Combat or Shooty.

Slugga Boyz

These are now simply Boyz armed with a Pistol and CCW. There really isn’t much more to them than that. This is a big decrease from their old Choppa rules, however these Boyz are now 33% cheaper than they used to be points wise, and with the new Furious Charge rules, the Boyz are still very effective in close combat.

Shoota Boyz

These Boyz cost the same as their Slugga counterparts, but are much improved over their old versions. Shootas are now S4 AP6 Assault 2, 18”. Because of this change in weapon, the BS2 of the Shoota Boyz is fairly negated, especially for their points cost.

Ard Boyz

For a relatively substantial cost, you can give 0-1 unit of Boyz in an army a 4+ armor save. Some people love this idea, others don’t. I’m in the latter category as I feel that the 4+ save really just makes them too expensive for their own good. Half the appeal of Orks is massive numbers, this is quite frankly a lot of points for an armor save that will be ignored by most heavy weapons in the game, and then some.

Probably the best thing I can say about ‘Ard Boyz is that if you find that you need to fill some points, putting the upgrade on a Trukk Bound squad isn’t a terrible idea. It’s probably not worth it, but it can be somewhat useful for Sluggas in a Trukk. For Footslogging Mobz, just avoid it.

Weapons and Equipment

Weapons for Boyz are pretty straight forward – Big Shootas or Rokkit are all you get to choose from. For me, the choice seems really clear. If you want Dakka – buy Shoota Boyz. From playing Orks for years under the old codex, I’ve found that you never can have enough Rokkits, and that hasn’t changed in the new codex. If you need long range multi-shot weapons, they’re available in other places, but you can NEVER get enough rokkits.

Nob equipment is likewise just as straight forward. You can chose between a Power Klaw or a Big Choppa. One is a power fist and the other one is just +2 Strength and allows armor saves. There really isn’t a choice here. S8 or S9 on the charge and ignoring armor saves, but striking last on a model that’s saddled with I3 anyway really is the winner, every time.

Other equipment available is the Bosspole and/or ‘eavy Armor. The Bosspole can mitigate LD issues, which is key for Orks who are getting low in numbers (Trukkers!), so it should be considered almost mandatory in any case except the most dire ones where you are running out of points to fit just one last squad in. ‘eavy armor should probably be avoided like the plague. There’s literally no point to equipping him with it in a normal unit of Boyz. He should never have to take saves on his own, that’s what all the Boyz are there for!



Organizing the Mobz

Each style of Ork Boy really suits itself to one method of play.

Slugga Boyz like being mounted in Trukks rather than footslogging it. With the new Trukk rules and careful use of the new Waaagh rules, your delivery of Slugga Boyz becomes a much more reliable affair. They are limited to 12 Models, but they can hit pretty hard for their points, just don’t forget the PK Nob and don’t bother with any weapon upgrades – most of the time when you’re charging you really aren’t going to be trying to get shots in, and it robs you of a CC attack.

Shoota Boyz are now the premier footslogging unit. With their effective 24” range after moving and shooting, they can manage to engage the enemy as they close the distance to (presumably) get into CC, which many times is a pretty good place to be, despite the fact that they’re “Shoota Boyz”. This is based on the notion that they can take Power Klaw Nobz, which is a point of contention for some rules arguments, but it seems the overall opinion coming out of the new Dex is that they can. This is important because without the PK Nob in a Shoota Mob, their overall effectiveness drops drastically.

That all said, assuming they can take a PK Nob, they are one of the most effective units in the Codex. On foot, my preferred mob size is 20 Boyz. It keeps the squad pretty cheap and maneuverable, and like any horde army, you really want to maximize on the number of units in your army, and 20 seems to be the best balance – mainly because it gives you two special weapons in the unit.

Other Configurations

Shootas really don’t work so well in Trukks. These Mobz are just meant for CC, where Sluggas are just better.

Footslogging Sluggas is more arguable as a configuration than Shootas in a Trukk, but to be honest footslogging CC troops has never been a good idea in 4th edition. Even with the Waaagh move, the Shoota Boyz with a PK Nob really just makes such a better unit for the job that they just completely eclipse Slugga Boyz. There is one exception to this, as mentioned in the HQ section. If you take two Warpheads and just keep trying for the Waaagh Power and hopefully get a Fleet move each turn, Sluggas are a decent footslogging unit. But this is an exception and not the rule.

General Usage Comments

Sloggin Shootas
Shoota Boyz on foot really have almost no need for an explanation. Combo them with a KFF Mek and run forward, shoot, and when the opportunity presents itself, Waaagh and Charge! The biggest thing is to remember to keep your Power Klaw Nob buried safely behind a mass of bodies to make it hard to range snipe him or ever have him get stuck in a CC Killzone where the enemy can force his removal. You should have a lot of Boyz in your Mobz, use them well to shield your PK Nobz in assault and make sure they always swing by being within 2” of as many Orks who are in B2B contact with the enemy as possible. That’s really the biggest trick one must learn when playing a horde of Orks. Everything else including squad spacing and deployment is based on the opponent face and the terrain available.

Trukkin Sluggas
Sluggas, especially in a Trukk, really need a few key words of wisdom. With only 12 Boyz in the Mob, you can suffer from LD issues, so a Bosspole is always a worthy investment. A few key things here should be mentioned as far as usage. When used in great groups, you should try and maximize the one Waaagh move you get per game. Try and set it up so that all of your Trukk Mobz hit the enemy all in one turn to maximize the effect. You shouldn’t get in a position where using the Waaagh move only helps one Mob of Boyz. Additionally there is the issue of Mob placement once disembarking from a Trukk. The words spoken above for Nob placement behind a healthy amount of Boyz is just as applicable here as it is in the Shoota Boyz footslogging section.

Keep him within 2” of as many Boyz who are in B2B contact as possible! The secret to pulling this off is the order in which you move your models when charging. Per the rules, you move the closest model in B2B first, and then the rest are up to you, so long as you get as many models in B2B who can make it there as possible. The trick is to move all those models first, and then the rest move up to pad the killzone with the Nob in it, while at the same time keeping the Nob within 2” of as many models in B2B contact as possible. This prevents your opponent from pulling models in B2B as normal casualties and denying the Nob his chance to swing the Klaw.

One thing that should be mentioned from my experience with the new Trukkers compared to the old ones, and this is for players of the Old Orks, especially Kult of Speed, is that you must remember: your trukk mobz are not guaranteed to kill almost any target anymore! This wasn’t always true with the old rules, but with the limitation of I3 on the Boyz, you really want to be careful in how you engage units with multiple attacks per model (assault squads, Chaos Marine squads, etc). They will almost always strike before you do, so set your charges up carefully so that the kill zones aren’t too large, but more towards a flank of a unit where you will get fewer attacks hitting you first. Sure you’ll kill less models, but in the aftermath in the next round of assault, you can outnumber the enemy by a greater margin and bring your numbers (and PK Nob) to bear with a much greater effect.

Gretchin
Utility: Very Poor

What can I say about this unit. They removed their cover save giving ability for Orks, but kept their mine clearance abilities. So basically, the reason you took them before has been taken away.

They’ve been given BS3, which is pretty good except for the fact that in their basic units Grots can only ever have 12” Single Shot Lasguns.

Honestly, there isn’t anything I can say here. The Slavers (or Runtherderz in the new Dex) can’t get Rokkits or other upgrades anymore that make them useful. Heck the only use I can see for them is screening the Boyz from assault, and even that could probably be better fulfilled with another unit of Boyz.

Look at it this way, a unit of 30 Grotz costs the same amount of points that buy you 20 Orks.

The only good thing about Grots is that they make Big Gunz and Killa Kanz more appealing. As their own unit, they’re one of the most useless things in the Codex. I literally can not conceive of a scenario where they are worth the points you will have to spend on them. This makes them worse than any other unit rated "Poor" in this Tactica.

Troops Summary

Well out of the two choices available, I hope it’s become clear which one you want to use and which one you want to avoid.

Fortunately with the way the Codex is laid out, the one choice available to you gives you such a wide variety of choices for how the unit will play that there is nothing to be too upset about.

About the only thing I can say in summary is that when choosing how to field your Boyz, either in Trukks or on Foot, the old 40k adage of “What’s good to take once, it’s good to take in multiples” very much holds true for Orks. The most effective lists are the ones that will run multiple units of Footsloggers or multiple units of Trukks. There are cases where one or two unit of Trukkers can compliment a foot horde, but in those cases, it’s sometimes better to be running Storm Boyz for that role instead of Sluggas in a Trukk.

words of wisdom there, Voodoo. I too am annoyed by the new gretchin, I'd really hoped they'd have _more_ options, ideally making a full 'grot liberation front' army playable.

Any thoughts on the '6 trukks full of boyz' army lists that some seem very keen on? Combined with bikers and stormboys, it would give a very mobile army, but also seems very fragile?

So, what about Battlewagon Boyz? Shootas or sluggas?

quick question guys: can a Kommando Nob get Rokkits?

I'm just asking, because I have an idea for a new Nob.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:One thing that should be mentioned from my experience with the new Trukkers compared to the old ones, and this is for players of the Old Orks, especially Kult of Speed, is that you must remember: your trukk mobz are not guaranteed to kill almost any target anymore! This wasn’t always true with the old rules, but with the limitation of I3 on the Boyz, you really want to be careful in how you engage units with multiple attacks per model (assault squads, Chaos Marine squads, etc). They will almost always strike before you do, so set your charges up carefully so that the kill zones aren’t too large, but more towards a flank of a unit where you will get fewer attacks hitting you first. Sure you’ll kill less models, but in the aftermath in the next round of assault, you can outnumber the enemy by a greater margin and bring your numbers (and PK Nob) to bear with a much greater effect.

You may want to note that while this is particularily true for small squads (such as trukk boyz), it's true to some degree for every mob. Any squad with a high number of strong attacks is bad for orks if it has a higher initiave. I played a proxy game wednesday, and my opponent played 13th company. Those wolf things were absolute murder, with I4 and 3 S4 attacks on the charge they tore thru orks and pared down kill zones before my boyz could attack.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Phil Kelly rolled up the four main entries for Orks in the previous codex into one entry right here, and boy did he do a hell of a job.

Voodoo, I would refrain from waxing lyrical about how Phil Kelly did such a good job on the Ork Mobz, by the way other units and wargear are handled, and the poverty of actual choices in arming the Nob; I would put the success of the unit purely down to monkey chance.

A twelve year old could have written rules as good, and not screwed up gretchin in the process - let alone most of the eiltes.

Orlanth wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Phil Kelly rolled up the four main entries for Orks in the previous codex into one entry right here, and boy did he do a hell of a job.

Voodoo, I would refrain from waxing lyrical about how Phil Kelly did such a good job on the Ork Mobz, by the way other units and wargear are handled, and the poverty of actual choices in arming the Nob; I would put the success of the unit purely down to monkey chance.

A twelve year old could have written rules as good, and not screwed up gretchin in the process - let alone most of the eiltes.

I don't think so. Kelly made footsloggers and trukk boyz, sluggas and shootas, equally (or near enough) viable.

I3 and 2"killzones are what hurt the most.

Trukk Mounted Slugga Boyz want stikkbombs or stikk bomb chuckaz on there Trukk.. With the mobility of a trukk, you should be able to find some cover to assault over when assaulting the enemy. If you do this you strike at the same time. Good stuff for Orks.

Pariah Press wrote:

I don't think so. Kelly made footsloggers and trukk boyz, sluggas and shootas, equally (or near enough) viable.

Why are you satisfied with such crap. So they got a unit right, "best codex evar". No sorry, GW need to get all the units right. Stores are closing, sales are falling, PP is catching up on market share. The time to sit around in Nottingham and say they are artistes with unparalelled design vision has past. Only a few diehards on Warseer and ten year old kids who buy White Dwarf believe this anymore.

GW have dropped the ball on timing - they should have had orks for Christmas. They dropped the ball on pricing - 24 models for £100, mostly plastic. They dropped the ball on options - one of the main draws of Orks was customisation. And its no excuse that they dumbed down to appeal to mass market. Kids like to customise their orks too - I have seen it enough times. They dropped the ball on security - nuff said. Above all they dropped the ball on this sucky codex.

It doesnt matter that there are some good units. It doesnt matter that there are some viable builds. Those are only factors i the success in a codex because most players have for too long been living in a justified fear that GW will completely ruin a codex army as a playable force so that any revision that allows the army itself to remain viable on the tabletop can be deemed a success. This speaks volumes about the true quality, read lack of, of this game; and a deep lack of trust and hope in GW design procedure.

The fact remains the vast majority of the units are pretty much useless either in comparison to other units available, or even outright. They did a worse job of internal balance here than in just about any codex. It makes DA seem well written in comparison. It shows an extreme lack of design talent. I am not exagerrating when I say if you found a handful of young teenage players and let them rewrite the codex you would have a better hit rate of balanced units than GW studio.

I agree,
the whole game is shifting towards elites. If you don't belive me check out any of the horde armies available. there used to be a time when a mass of foot sloggers could get the job done in 40k. I wonder if GW realizes the quality of the codexes they are putting out. Or if the loop holes and sink holes in the codex just 'never occured to them.'

gdurant wrote:I agree,
the whole game is shifting towards elites. If you don't belive me check out any of the horde armies available. there used to be a time when a mass of foot sloggers could get the job done in 40k. I wonder if GW realizes the quality of the codexes they are putting out. Or if the loop holes and sink holes in the codex just 'never occured to them.'

What I think is funny is that there is not a new codex out (DA, BA, Eldar, Nids, Chaos) that can hang with 100 shootaboyz with Pk knobs and 3 squads of lootas (That's probably around 1500pts or so with a cheap hq?).

I would say that they're building codex where the only things worth a damn are the elites/heavies/hqs, mainly, but this bias is going to make horde armies more and more effective (in my opinion).

Also, a mass of footslogging IG is still an effective army (if not top notch). Mass of footslogging Necrons is actually top tier.

So basically I don't agree at all, I guess. The game is shifting toward only three or four units in a codex being worth a crap, that I'll agree with.

Your right, I'm just bitter. I had am eldar foot slogging army in 3rd ed. Not that I don't enjoy playing mech, but I hate being pigeon oled into it.

Orlanth, I couldn't disagree with you more. There are always, always going to be some better choices than others. It's just the way it works. There are certain things you can cost very high, and they would still be worth it.

PP is doing well because they are new, and they do a decent job of getting product out. It's still new, and I keep hearing a lot of people getting frustrated with it. There isn't really any "perfect" game out there. THings are fun for awhile, but they can die off quickly.

As a whole the new Ork codex is a relatively decent, balanced list. But what I don't get is all the vitriol thrown at what isn't even released yet. We don't have a clue how close to finished this was, or how complete. Only time will tell what kind of an army it will make, or be. Tyranids took quite awhile before people started making good, competitive lists with it, and I am not just talking about Godzilla nid lists. Over time we figure out things. Mathhammer and gut instinct are only part of the equation. Real world play is another.

But it looks like it is mostly a success. There are quite a few different armies you can make from the list, and styles. All mech, horde, small elite, and so far most look rather viable, but not so overpowering. But again, until the book is released and we have played with it awhile, we shouldn't make any firm judgements.

Eldar didn't have an army box for release, and had to wait awhile to get it. It's nice for that release, but not a killer. I am sure quite a few of the new model boxes are going to sell. The box is for the people that already have orks. It's the new stuff. As the cycle goes and they get all the plastics done the army box will get released. It's not exactly a killer to not have it out right away.

As far as Eldar go, they are competitive without Falcons. With Falcons they are a little over the top. I still run foot slogging eldar, and they do fine. Tournaments make certain lists come to the fore, and sure things. Falcons are almost a sure thing.

I am going to have to say that I really only think 3 or 4 units are useless in the dex. Every other one does have a use, but maybe not the most competitive choice. But as people get use to lootas, they are also going to get use to negating them.

The only things I really find useless in the dex are flash gitz, meganobz, and burna boyz. Everything else has it's place, but maybe isn't the most competitive for it's slot. I have already found out from my games that lootas aren't always the best tool. Masses of low ap fire aren't a sure thing in a list that has a ranged problem vs high armour and toughness creatures. Rokkits and Tankbustas are definately must haves in a balanced list.

I am also going to have to say that I am liking the ardboyz. For 10pts they are still a very cheap, well armoured choice. Against certain armies they can be a game saver. They can actually survive first contact and fire from quite a few things. Not a must have, but a very nice tool. Hormagaunts don't even want to get near them...

Footslogging slugga boyz are still quite viable, and with a weirdboy and the waagh! can get across the board quite fast, and really give up a lot of their shooting while doing this, so it is even more vital to get as many attacks in on the charge as you can. This is where eavy armour can become a game saver. Surviving those first hits so you still have contact is really good. I wouldn't take a huge mob of them unless I was playing Apoc, but with almost everyone striking first against you it can save you.

But really, depending on what flavor of ork army you are going to run, certain units become a lot more viable than others.

It's going to be an interesting time...

So you think grots are useful? Or did you just forget them?

That one is a bit of a mixed bag. I really didn't think grots were all that useful in the old game, and still don't really think they are worth it. They would have to be absolutely dirt cheap AND give the save for me to really see a reason to use them. They weren't that dirt cheap before, and failing morale just made them go away.

Things I like better about them now. Even when failing morale checks they are on the board. They are a little better at shooting. Squighounds give you a chance to keep them around.

But there is no real way 2 of them are as effective as a single ork. I did cause people to shoot at them instead of my orks, but again, why not just take orks.

They did have a shining moment though, and it had nothing to do with the grots. Flyrant came in and attacked my boss, who survived the round. most of the grots were dead, but the herders with sticks were still there. Charged them into the fight reducing the tyrant by two attacks, which allowed the boss to eventually clean his clock. The grots helped out with outnumbering....

Grots are useful. They can help with out numbering in Combat, are super cheap scoring units, have runtherds that lower enemy attacks, can cause the odd failed target priority test and can clear minefields (awesome until the vanilla marine codex gets rewritten). I don't think they are awesome all the time, but add some interesting Metagame options. You buddy is using Mine laying Whirlwinds to hose your boys, bring in some cheap grot squads to clear them. Your Opponent is running huge CC monsters that kill all you elite units, bring some grots are a skirmish screen/tarpit. Are they super cool must takes units, Not that I know, but if I have 50 points or so left over after buying the main units in my army, I'll consider taking Grots.

Orlanth wrote:

Pariah Press wrote:

I don't think so. Kelly made footsloggers and trukk boyz, sluggas and shootas, equally (or near enough) viable.

Why are you satisfied with such crap. So they got a unit right, "best codex evar".

I fail to see how you could conflate my statement disagreeing that a twelve year old could have written the Ork Codex with "best codex evar." Please, take your prepared rant about "PP" and GW's business practices to another thread, as this is the thread for "Ork Takktics."

As far as the substance of your rant, that nearly every unit in the new codex is worthless, I disagree. There are so many good HQ and Fast Attack options that I can't fit them into a force org chart, and quite enough other options to keep my Ork army looking quite diverse, without compromising much on effectiveness.

Toreador wrote:Orlanth, I couldn't disagree with you more. There are always, always going to be some better choices than others. It's just the way it works. There are certain things you can cost very high, and they would still be worth it.

True enough, I cannot expect perfection, but I can expect some form of balance. This codex has none.

Toreador wrote:As a whole the new Ork codex is a relatively decent, balanced list. But what I don't get is all the vitriol thrown at what isn't even released yet. We don't have a clue how close to finished this was, or how complete.

All my comments are based on the leaked codex. Why are my comments invalid because the codex is not confirmed, HOW ABOUT THE WHOLE THREAD, in fact if in your opinion the codex is beyond comment why are you even here?

Toreador wrote:But it looks like it is mostly a success. There are quite a few different armies you can make from the list, and styles. All mech, horde, small elite, and so far most look rather viable, but not so overpowering. But again, until the book is released and we have played with it awhile, we shouldn't make any firm judgements.

Again both my points. First the "phew I dont have to scrap my whole army" being the definition of success. In fact it only proves failure. As for not making judgements - isnt everyone? Are comments only valid if they like the Codex?

Toreador wrote:I am sure quite a few of the new model boxes are going to sell. The box is for the people that already have orks. It's the new stuff. As the cycle goes and they get all the plastics done the army box will get released. It's not exactly a killer to not have it out right away.

Yes some people will buy it, some people buy cocaine, some people buy fast cars that youn can never drive to their potential on the open road without commiting a serious traffic offense. Doesnt mean they are good deals.
Do you actually support the idea of IIRC 22 plastic miniatures, a vehicle and two metal ones for £100. That is ridiculous even by GW pricing standards.

Toreador wrote:The only things I really find useless in the dex are flash gitz, meganobz, and burna boyz.

Gretchen are useless too, they make Pariahs and heavy support krootox look good, and compared to the boyz mob its a joke. Nobz in general are going to be so outmoded by lootas and now the only viable way of getting a burna model in your army is with mek or kommandos. Those lovely characterful models that really spell out orkiness - largely sidelined.

Toreador wrote:I am also going to have to say that I am liking the ardboyz.......Footslogging slugga boyz are still quite viable....

Like I said, they got a unit right from time to time, and our low expectations of GW design skills turn that into a major victory.

Pariah Press wrote:I fail to see how you could conflate my statement disagreeing that a twelve year old could have written the Ork Codex with "best codex evar." Please, take your prepared rant about "PP" and GW's business practices to another thread, as this is the thread for "Ork Takktics."

Its all part of the big picture. The very principles of what makes a successful codex has been skewed by players low expectations. Comparisons to other systems are relevant.

Pariah Press wrote:As far as the substance of your rant, that nearly every unit in the new codex is worthless, I disagree. There are so many good HQ and Fast Attack options that I can't fit them into a force org chart, and quite enough other options to keep my Ork army looking quite diverse, without compromising much on effectiveness.

So if you like the codex its an 'opinion', but if you dont its a 'rant'. I see.





IN GENERAL.

Sorry people are failing to see the big picture because they are so used to fearing seeing an army wrecked as a playable force that they dont see how a codex can suck and still remain playable.

They got a Troops unit right (though fairly bland with Nob options), they got the other one horribly wrong. Oh how impressive. 50% hit rate of getting units right, in TROOPS.

Look to elites. Lootas interesting, lets call that a tick. Kommandoes also. Meganobz, Burnas and Nobz get an X. They got 40% 'right' in Elites and that is just on internal balance.

I ignored Tankbustas completely, the rules for them are so mind bogglingly stupid I dont even have to bother comparing them with anything else. Honestly I have thought for a long while whether this whole leak is a hoax, because I cannot see how Glory Hogs could possibly get into print. But then its GW studio, so all bets are off; sometimes I wonder if their design team have enough smarts to drool.

Then Fast Attack and Heavy Support, ok admittedly you have some good stuff here, but the FA and HS is jammed full of decent options at the same time that other slots are vacant of real choice, frustrating really. Even so there are some lemons. Unlike SM there are no options for swapping things around to get some of the fast stuff as troops. Options are for marines, and don't say this is because of the new standardisation, DA can swap over the troops for variety, but all orks have the same build.

Thats the real kicker, all orks are the same. No Goffs, No Evil Suns, no this, no that. At least in the Eldar codex they gave a nod to the various craftworlds, bikes and rangers become troops, wraithguard can become troops too so if you want fluffy craftworld army you can actually do it, even Iyanden at a pinch.
But not so orks, the most varied race of all. The only real nod to a change is the inclusion of a Kult of Stomp with Dreads as troops.

Furthermore not only are orks the same, each ork is the same. What are nobz now but uniformed klaw carriers. Sure they had klaws before, but at least they had variety through the armoury. GW might as well produce one model and be done with it.
All the character bits = bosspole. Great. All the looted vehicles = one looted wagon stat. I like that battlewagons can be tooled up to be almost identical to a Russ but that is it for content.

When it comes to character we knew there would be some sacrifices in the dumbing down and stripping of armoury sections, but they did this without any of the compensations giving even lip service to variety and robbed the orks of any true versatility. Sure there are some nice builds but they are as packaged as the rank and file troops ever were. Marines, let alone Guard are less uniform than new orks. Ironic really.

When it comes to getting things right with this codex they score less than 50% in internal consistency, they do get some things right, but they got more wrong than right. I havent put a pass mark to the characterisation as its too intangible to judge, yet you might read that I am not impressed. Even so 50% is not an A grade, more like a D.

Codex Orks : Grade D

Orlanth wrote: Unlike SM there are no options for swapping things around to get some of the fast stuff as troops. Options are for marines, and don't say this is because of the new standardisation, DA can swap over the troops for variety, but all orks have the same build.

Just proof that you have no idea what you're talking about...

I really want to continue this discussion, because it's interesting, but not in the takktica. I made a thread with a quote and response here.

Please, lets continue it there. I may actually be able to start writing stuff up for the rest of the takkitca now that I finished the term project for my class last night.

Ok, Voodoo I will go along with that.

FA up soon?

skyth wrote:

Orlanth wrote: Unlike SM there are no options for swapping things around to get some of the fast stuff as troops. Options are for marines, and don't say this is because of the new standardisation, DA can swap over the troops for variety, but all orks have the same build.

Just proof that you have no idea what you're talking about...

Proof of what? The actual orks are incredibly cookie cutter now, how many viable builds from a nob, answer 2:klaw, with or without bosspole. From all the myriad characterful variations of the old dex.......
Lets take this to the other thread.

Wait, what? You mean there were other options people fielded before? Okay,.. kustom jobs.. but there were other things? Can't say I ever saw them...

Unit Evaluation: Fast Attack

Storm Boyz
Utility: Competitive
These Boyz are one of the best units in the Codex. They are seriously now the premier dedicated assault unit in the Ork army. Their big draw is that they move an extra 1D6” in the movement phase every turn, and can still shoot and charge after this extra movement. Sure if you roll a 1 then you take a wound (and still move 1”), but this downside is well worth the benefit.
Now remember that you roll this extra movement dice before you move the unit, so you always know exactly how far you can or can not move. This is absolutely huge, because if you know that your movement wont’ take you to the next piece of cover or into assault, you can plan accordingly. Also it’s important to realize that Storm Boyz are not “infantry” so you do not get any benefit from the “Waaagh” move. They’re fast, but not that fast!
One of the things that really make these Boyz shine is that on the charge, you stand a very good chance of getting most if not all of your mob engaged, because they’re so extremely fast. I recommend taking Mobz of at least 16 Boyz, and in a list where you are going to live with only one squad, I suggest taking the full mob of 20. I find it hard to build a competitive list without at least two Mobz of 16 Boyz in it though. These Boyz are that good!
Equipping your Boyz

They really don’t get a lot of options and to be honest, they don’t need them! They come with Frags already, and the only option is the no-brainer upgrade of a Nob, who by this point you should realize gets a Power Klaw and not the Huge Choppa. The Nob also has the option to take ‘Eavy Armor, which just like in normal Boyz Mobz, should be avoided as it’s relatively useless.

The question is whether or not to spend the points for a Bosspole, which can be worth it many times because these Boyz will see combat and LD is an issue. On the other hand I’m finding that points are so tight when building a competitive list that you really can run out of points and there is some idea that if your Boyz are losing combat and there is a small enough amount of them around that they’re going to break, they’re probably about to die anyway.

That all said, the honest truth is that the safer, more conservative bet is to spend the small bit of points and give them the Bosspole. After that they’re ready to hit the table. Just use cover and get them into CC safely and you should be set!

Special Character

Ahhh Zaagstruk, what a conundrum of a Character upgrade. He replaces the Nob now, and instead of giving you a 12” charge, he allows your unit to Deepstrike and Charge the turn you arrive! Not bad, but his “Power Klaw” that may go at I value, is only there on the turn you charge! And when you deepstrike and charge, you lose D3 Storm Boyz! Combine this with a hefty points cost, and I think you’ll find that he’s really not worth the points even with such a shocking ability.

War Buggies
Utility: Semi-Competitive

It’s amazing how something can go from near mandatory in one dex to only “OK” in the next one. Such is the power of new Codex’s and such is the fate of the War Buggy. These guys really used to be my favorite anti-tank units in an Ork army. They were cheap, they were fast, they were scoring, and they gave you somewhat reliable rokkits for a cheap price. Now they still do all those things, but they compete against other units that do the same job with either better durability (arguable) or with more utility (not so arguable).

Now I don’t mean to say that buggies should be avoided. I’m saying that it may be hard to find a place in your army for them, especially in light of the Storm Boyz that compete for this slot.

Equipping the Buggies

Big Shootas - The cheapest buggy gets you a Twin Linked Big Shoota. Given what the dakka output on these are, and the fact that you can get lots of shots other places in the Ork list, I pretty much write this option off, except in special cases which I’ll get to later.

Rokkits - Lootas make up for the anti-tank deficiency that Buggies used to fill in the old Ork list, and with only S8, they’re not the answer to our AV14 problems. So you’re not buying much anti-tank here. The upgrade here isn’t that expensive and is worth it over the Big Shoota if you have points to spare and want Buggies.

Skorcha – Oh what used to be the cheapest and one of the most effective options now becomes the most expensive, but at the same time, it’s still effective! Quick heavy flamers for not too many points ain’t too shabby! Hop out and scorch a squad and make your points back and then some! This is actually a decent option for the buggies if you actually want to use them offensively and have them fulfill a unique roll you can’t replicate elsewhere in the list.

Add-Ons – A whole lot of “meh” here. Some options like Armor Plates are tempting because hey, it’s extra armor on a scoring unit, yay for last turn moves to nab objectives!

Right?

Wrong. It’s AV10 open topped and this upgrade is 1/3 the cost of the vehicle. That’s a lot of points for something that will only come into play 1/6th of the time when glanced and 1/6th of the time when penetrated.

Grot Riggers - Likewise the nerf to Grot Riggers working in the shooting phase and not the beginning of the turn to make the unit mobile again also somewhat limit my wanting to take it on such a cheap vehicle. Still, it can turn the unit scoring again on the last turn if you get it into position, and that’s always helpful. Plus it’s relatively cheap, so it is worth while.

Red Paint Job – It’s more expensive now, but an extra inch does go a mile when using 24” Rokkits or Template Skorcha. Also if you’re going to use these guys with other ideas in mind like nabbing objectives at the end of the game, that extra inch really does help.

Wartrakk Upgrade – Debatable here. You can move 24-25” a turn, many times you can go around terrain features to get where you need to. Likewise, if you’re rolling for dangerous terrain tests you’ll probably be rolling 2D6 99% of the time, where you still have a chance at failing. I just don’t know if this is worth the cost, I’m guessing not since I like my buggies cheap as possible.

Other Uses
There are other uses to this cheap little vehicle besides direct damage and objective grabbing.

Some people are already talking about converting Buggies from the new Trukk model. By doing so, they can create the perfect cheap “Screen Unit” for a whole lot of actual Trukk bound Mobz hiding behind it.

The new models look to be pretty high, and basing the Buggies on those models certainly can win you “modeling points” with opponents, since current buggies pre-date 2nd Edition, but by screening Trukks with them, you may be considered to be “modeling to your advantage” which can bring about a huge question in sportsmanship and/or a hit in a sports score at a tournament. So while this tactic is quite valid, it has some out-of-game consequences in it.

Additionally with this tactic, you want at least two units of 2 to 3 Buggies to effectively screen your Trukks. Which means you’re cutting into the amount of Storm Boyz that you can field in an army, and even when going with lots of Trukks, having a big mob of Storm Boyz to back you up in situations is crucial, so finding the balance between the two is going to be hard if you’re dead set on this kind of application.


Warbikers
Utility: Poor

Ahh another “unit that could have been great”. I’ll sum up the changes really fast here:

Now get Slugga + Choppa for Extra CC attack = Good
Lose Psycho Blasta Special Rule = Bad, but fair enough
Gain 4+ Armor Save, Cover Save increased to 4+ = Great!
No more cover save passed to units behind them = Bad, but fair enough
Lose Fearless = Unit is no longer worth fielding!

Much like with Nobz, Mega Nobz, or any small unit of expensive Orks, these Boyz will not stick around very long once the going gets tough! The major LD issues that these guys will experience when stuck in where they want to be – Close Combat with a PK Nob, they will simply have problems against units with Power Fists or anything that gets past their T5 and 4+ Save. In fact against anything with a higher number of attacks is going to cause problems, and in the world of “competitive 40k” these things are not hard to come by.

Now granted, with their 4+ Cover save they’re pretty resilient from shooting with decent AP values, and T5 is pretty nice, but you will need to hug cover and only come out when it’s time to shoot and charge something, because if you take units with only say 6 Bikes in them, with 2 Casualties, they’re testing on LD7 to run. Not pretty. Sure when they come out they can shoot with their nice Twin Linked half range Big Shootas and then charge, which will put some hurt on a squad of Marines, it’s still not that impressive for something you can get elsewhere in the list for less points with much more durability (here’s a hint, it’s the first thing in the Fast Attack Section and it begins with Storm and ends with Boyz).

Equipping the Bikes
They don’t have many options, and what they do have is covered everywhere else. If you buy them, they probably want to get stuck in, since any casualties they inflict via their somewhat decent shooting will probably lead to them getting shot and wiped out by whatever else is close to your target.

The kit is straight forward – Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole. The Bosspole is arguable because you inflict a wound on an expensive unit with only a 4+ save, but to be honest sticking around after failing a fall back test is better than being completely dead then and there. If you have to ask why you’re taking the Power Klaw over the Huge Choppa, you need to go re-read the other sections of the Takktica.

To be honest I feel bad rating them “Poor”, but competitively speaking, they just are. Sure they can be used in a rewarding fashion in fun games, like most non-competitive options in the dex. They’re somewhat cheap enough where a unit of 5 or 6 with a PK Nob and maybe bosspole can keep them around and it’s under 200 Points for the unit, which isn’t too bad. Used right they can do good things though in some matchups they will not have any good targets to go up against.

Helping them be somewhat useful for fun
One way to alleviate the problems of this unit, which are mainly LD based is simply to throw a Warboss or special character into the unit. This probably leads to "overkill" in terms of damage output, because the Boss is so potent, and thus is probably better off on his own, but if you were looking for a way to use this Mob without having too much trouble because of the rules, this is one way around the problem.

Deff Koptas
Utility: Semi-Competitive

Ahh, something else good in the fast section! Granted these guys aren’t the greatest thing in Fast Attack, but they do have their uses!

First off they’re scouts and jet bikes. That alone is pretty neat for setting up a few first turn charges, except for the fact that the Koptas are saddled with some mediocre combat upgrades that almost double the cost of the model! Also consider the max mob size of 5 and their LD is 7 and you get the idea that having Deff Koptas in an assault with a unit with a Power Fist and you start to understand why assault may be a bad idea.

Of course they have some other uses too. They can be given twin linked rokkits for just 10 more points compared to a Rokkit Buggy, and they can be taken in units of 1, which really do make them good contenders for “Last Turn Objective Grabbers”. The sad part is that with the current state of 40k Rules, T4(5) with 2W and a 4+ Armor Save is much more durable than an AV10 vehicle.

Additionally, using this option opens up some nice possibilities. In games where you can go first, you can use the Deff Koptas to scout up, and then move 12” into position to shoot TL Rokkits at Skimmers hiding behind terrain for turn 1, before they move. Granted this isn’t always a sure-fire way to bring skimmers down, but it is a possibility for use.

Other than this, there are a few key words of wisdom for using the Koptas:

-Small units should be used for objective grabbing. One model should be fine for this as it bypasses the LD problems of the unit.
-Big units are needed if you’re going to try for the turn 1 charge. Given the squad limitations I’d say a unit of 4 is probably optimal; however as Redbeard pointed out, a unit of 2 Koptas with one Buzzsaw could be used as a simple "charge and tie combat" unit for turn 1 charges that are mainly there to stop infantry from firing at you. A squad of 4 can take on harder targets but will likely wipe out what they charge which can be disadvantageous at times. Just be careful with the Squads of 2 as it'll take only 1 casualty to see something run off.
--Probably only one bike should have the Power Klaw as it gets expensive otherwise.
-Don’t forget they have Hit and Run! Coordinating use of Hit and Run to tie up shooty squads that may struggle to hurt the Kopta in Close Combat is a great application for these guys! Devastators are a prime target for this kind of application.

The issue with the Koptas is that they’re perfectly suited to say, killing a unit without a Power Fist or without a whole lot of hitting power in CC, like Marine tactical squads. The problem here is that a LOT of the lackluster Ork units fall into this category and the Koptas share all their LD problems. Though truth be told the Deth Koptas can do a few things most units in this category can’t: Scout, and Hit & Run.

Equipping the Koptas

Twin Linked Big Shoota – Default weapon and thus the cheapest option. I recommend sticking with this if your Koptas don’t plan to do anything but claim objectives at the end of a game. Additionally, if you’re going to go for an assault style unit then this gun works out pretty nice to soften up infantry before a charge. It also helps cut costs since assault Kopta units are expensive and small by nature.

Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha – Probably the overall utility for the Kopta. Assigning a unit of these Fly Boyz to do some anti-tank work early on in the game is pretty straight forward and isn’t a half bad idea. The points cost is higher than I’d like but it’s fair for what you get, a semi-reliable Rokkit shot on a maneuverable unit.

Kustom Mega Blasta – Avoid it like the plague!! You go to something that’s only got one shot, is not twin linked, and it can hurt your Kopta. This thing has got “Bad Idea” written all over it. As a tank hunter, the TL Rokkit is more reliable and worth the paltry increase in cost to get it over the KMB. In terms of actually bringing AP2 to the list, it’s one shot with “gets hot” at BS2, this is a bad idea!

Big Bomm – I’m pretty “meh” on this upgrade. It’s not the most reliable thing and it’s damage output isn’t that great with just a S4 AP5 Pie Plate. I wouldn’t mind taking it at the cost listed if it wasn’t a single shot weapon. As it is, I just don’t see it as worth while.

Buzzsaw – Power Klaws for Deff Koptas! Great right? Well not really. It costs a ton of points and it’s on a normal Boy who gets no benefit for having two CCW’s, so you get 3 attacks on the charge at S7, and then 2 attacks at S6 after that. Granted the Koptas have Hit and Run so you can keep charging if needed, but I think that it’s an OK upgrade at best. They’re good just like say Bikes – if you want to kill MEQ’s without Power Fists in the squad, a unit with a Buzzsaw in it can start wreaking havoc on turn 1 if things work out right for you.

Equipping your Koptas is dependent on what you want to do with them. For last turn objective grabbers, cheap ones work fine. Turn 1 assaulters want some punch and the Buzzsaw brings that. General utility says go for the Rokkits to hunt tanks if you feel you need that ability in your list. One thing is clear though, avoid the Kustom Mega Blasta!

Fast Attack Summary

Well we’ve got four units here, one clear winner in terms of direct power and one loser unit. Between them we have two units who may not be the best available choices, but definitely have their uses, even if in just a limited way, in a competitive Ork list.

The basic thing you need to realize when you look at the Fast Attack section is that Storm Boyz really are one of the strongest units in the Codex. To put it simply a somewhat cheap unit that can charge anywhere from 19-24” that has a lot of bodies, a lot of attacks, and a Hidden Power Klaw Nob is bad news for ANY target. These Boyz can take down vehicles in a pinch, they can preemptively charge big nasties like Flying Tyrants or Demon Princes, and they can enforce a healthy dose of area denial wherever you put them.

They are the premier counter assault unit in the codex and they should never be over looked when creating any kind of competitive list. With their speed and some tactical deployment, you should be able to use cover effectively and limit them from taking any incoming fire, getting them to charge when and where you need them. The tactical advantages they bring to your army list can not be denied.

The other choices like Buggies or Deff Koptas are decent but will require a lot more tactics and work to get mileage out of, but can be more rewarding – especially in friendly games. Bikes are also a unit on this level and barely miss’s the cut to be called “Semi-Competitive”, but when used say in conjunction with a Boss on Bike or just used carefully they can be a decent unit to be used in friendly games. Just don’t expect too much out of them or for them to be “tournament worthy” and you should do just fine with them if you put your head to it.

I think you're wrong about dethkoptas.

First, I think that if you buy them the buzzsaw, they get an extra attack for the extra CCW. Their base equipment includes a choppa, and the wording in the codex says that a dethkopta with a buzzsaw counts as "having a powerklaw". That means that you now have a model with a choppa and a powerklaw, as nothing about the upgrade indicates a replacement, and that means you've got yourself two CCWs, which gives you an extra attack.


Second, I think their usefulness isn't about winning a combat on the first turn, it's about tying combat on the first turn. These guys are ideal for turbo-scouting, charging on turn 1, and preventing a unit from shooting during your opponent's turn - possibly more than one if others are behind it. Hold them up to give the other boyz an extra turn to advance, and then hit&run out. With T(5), W2 and a 4+ save, they're at good odds to avoid damage against anything but powerfists, and I've yet to see a shooty army that's got powerfists in every squad. With 4 powerfist swings on the charge, you should be able to put one wound on your opponent, and, with a base I2, you might even get to pick which weapon you're using after seeing if you took a wound. If you didn't take a wound, it can actually be beneficial to swing with the choppa instead of the buzzsaw in order to guaruantee that the combat ends in a tie and the opponent stays tied up for your shooting phase.

I'm running a unit of two, with 1 buzzsaw, and whatever they lack in raw power, they're making up in tactical advantage.

Redbeard wrote:I think you're wrong about dethkoptas.

First, I think that if you buy them the buzzsaw, they get an extra attack for the extra CCW. Their base equipment includes a choppa, and the wording in the codex says that a dethkopta with a buzzsaw counts as "having a powerklaw". That means that you now have a model with a choppa and a powerklaw, as nothing about the upgrade indicates a replacement, and that means you've got yourself two CCWs, which gives you an extra attack.


Second, I think their usefulness isn't about winning a combat on the first turn, it's about tying combat on the first turn. These guys are ideal for turbo-scouting, charging on turn 1, and preventing a unit from shooting during your opponent's turn - possibly more than one if others are behind it. Hold them up to give the other boyz an extra turn to advance, and then hit&run out. With T(5), W2 and a 4+ save, they're at good odds to avoid damage against anything but powerfists, and I've yet to see a shooty army that's got powerfists in every squad. With 4 powerfist swings on the charge, you should be able to put one wound on your opponent, and, with a base I2, you might even get to pick which weapon you're using after seeing if you took a wound. If you didn't take a wound, it can actually be beneficial to swing with the choppa instead of the buzzsaw in order to guaruantee that the combat ends in a tie and the opponent stays tied up for your shooting phase.

I'm running a unit of two, with 1 buzzsaw, and whatever they lack in raw power, they're making up in tactical advantage.

I dunno about the two CCW thing you're pointing out. By RAW, you're correct though, so this may need a revision pending a FAQ or at least talking with people in general to see what the "accepted" interpretation is for play.

Also, I whole heartedly agree with what you're saying about tying things down in turn 1. I hope I didn't give off the idea that they need to "win" the CC on the turn they charge, since the whole trick to assaults is to make sure that you stay in combat through your opponents turn and then hit and run away to charge something else at the end of their assault phase or to finish combat in their turn.

Did my section on the Deth Koptas really come across as trying to emphasize that they must win CC on their turn? I was merely trying to make sure that they never "lose" combat since they will likely be easily outnumbered at least in small units and you don't want to have them testing to run. Is there a specific line you'd like to see revised here?

I can definitely add some parts about just using a small squad of 2 for lockdown duty, instead of taking a squad of 4 to "win assaults" though. That's a good point that deserves mentioning.

I would put a little more mention of the Biker Warboss into the bikes section. He easily covers their negative leadership. I would almost consider a Biker Squad Mandatory if I was fielding a biker boss, for the protection and addition combat support.

Mahu wrote:I would put a little more mention of the Biker Warboss into the bikes section. He easily covers their negative leadership. I would almost consider a Biker Squad Mandatory if I was fielding a biker boss, for the protection and addition combat support.

The Biker Boss can cover the LD deficiencies of the Nob Bikers and regular Bike Mobz pretty well, and I'll revise this to mention that in the Bike entry, but I disagree with your assertion on them being "Mandatory" for the Biker Boss.

The Biker Boss is exceptionally "good" because of the fact that he's a monster in CC with decent survivability while still being an IC. This enables you to have him be a "guaranteed" assaulter since he can't be targeted if he's not the closest unit. By putting him with a mob, you can end up in situations where any casualties caused by the Bikes he's with will just result in models being pulled from B2B with the Boss, denying his I1 PK Attacks.

This isn't as much of an issue for PK Nobz who just have to be within 2" of an engaged model to attack, so it's hard to become un-engaged.

With Nobz Mobz with ungodly attacks at S5 on the charge, I can see escorting them with a Biker Boss because they're a fun unit, but in terms of overall effectiveness, I see the Biker Boss being far more useful by himself, able to go where he's needed when he's needed and putting him into CC with whatever he needs to be with.

I think that the utility of running a bike squad with a Biker Boss is rather good. Either he is joined to the sqaud and preventing any early shooting and run situations. Or he is running along side the Bikes keeping the he safe.

Not Mandatory but certainly enough to take the bikes out of the "poor" category to maybe semi-competitive.

You could always keep the WB with the bikes as a ld bonus until they reach the enemy then split them off in one turn and go after two targets.

Alass the extra ld for the bikes would be more useful in this assault phase than on the march forward. But of ocurse as voodoo said keeping the boss with them will (unless the enemy is daft) negate the boss fighting by takeing casualties from his base, unless ya sneaky and get him in on the flank in b2b with a model that cannot be engaged with the rest of the bikes. Even if you manage this, the boss in the unit will be a bit of over kill (12 PK attacks!)

Mahu wrote:I think that the utility of running a bike squad with a Biker Boss is rather good. Either he is joined to the sqaud and preventing any early shooting and run situations. Or he is running along side the Bikes keeping the he safe.

Not Mandatory but certainly enough to take the bikes out of the "poor" category to maybe semi-competitive.

Well it's a question of who helps who here.

Boss escorting Bikes

The only thing the Boss does is ensure the delivery of a squad of Bikes by making sure that they don't run from shooting. The problem is that the bike squad doesn't really do a whole lot on the charge that other units don't do without the Warboss.

Likewise if your Bikes are being shot at before being delivered there's a problem since you should be trying to hide them as much as possible. Still their saves are good enough that they should weather some fire. Perhaps using a Biker Boss with them to get them to the point where they can charge next turn is viable, to allow them to stick it out through a round of shooting that's required in order to be where you want to be.

After that, as Latro_ points out, the Boss is overkill in assault and he probably should separate from the squad to let them tackle their target of opportunity while he goes off to deal with something else.

Bikes screening Boss

Here they can act as a screen if you must move the warboss somewhere away from the horde, out in the open. Not bad, but then you're sacrificing an expensive squad to do this where say, two buggies that cost only 5 points more than a Bike could effectively do the same thing, or Storm Boyz, or Koptas, or anything small, fast, and counting as a "unit".

Again, not seeing a whole lot here that's being added other than the fact that "you can use bikes and have them be delivered where you want them to shoot and assault a unit".

The problem is that it's not getting you anything that you can't get elsewhere in the list that does the same job better. Deth Koptas Hit and Run and Scout, Storm Boyz charge further and don't have LD issues. Buggies provide longer range big shoota fire in mass quantities if that's what you were after.

Sure I see mentioning using the Boss as a method to "help Bikes not suck" but I still don't see any utility in their use that isn't done elsewhere better, which is why I've rated them as such.

Good points and I agree with your assessment.

As a Ravenwing player, I have a lot of experience with Bike Characters supported by bikes, but in the context of the overall list you are dead on. I just hate to see such cool new models get such poor use.

duplicate reply, something went odd - please delete

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

The problem is that it's not getting you anything that you can't get elsewhere in the list that does the same job better. Deth Koptas Hit and Run and Scout, Storm Boyz charge further and don't have LD issues. Buggies provide longer range big shoota fire in mass quantities if that's what you were after.

Sure I see mentioning using the Boss as a method to "help Bikes not suck" but I still don't see any utility in their use that isn't done elsewhere better, which is why I've rated them as such.

Storm boyz technically 'charge' further, however they dont have a 24" boost to anywhere they want. Assuming a normal 48" wide board, bikes are a turn -d6 a head of storm boyz.
They also have that 1 in 6 chance of one of them dieing each turn, Plus a unit of 16-18 storm boyz is gonna take up as much room in regards to using cover as 7-8 bikes. Also random movement is still random movement, and in this unit's case you dont wanna take risks by falling short on a charge e.g. relying on the extra d6. I can see the extra d6 as more of a added plus for:

1. on moving 12" using the d6 for positioning in cover
2. on being within 19" (being more away and hoping for a good d6 roll is foolish, missing a charge with a unit like this spells disaster) so a charge is safe, the extra d6 (2+) i'll be using for positioning again before the charge so as to get an optimum charge arrangement.

In this vain i dont see the d6 really boosting their speed as much as it seems. going back to the charge example you wanna make sure you are within 19", the same goes for cover hopping. I'd try and plan from the start, a least out in the open 19" to 19" cover hop route. I would not rely on the extra d6 to get me all the way there. However once behind the cover and maxing out the normal move, the d6 is handy for positioning the models in the cover.

Dont get me wrong I intially was gonna take 5 bikes, but have now swapped them for another shoota boy unit and am going with screened truks and storm boyz as my fast (with the 121 now 150 pt mandatory biker boss). I just dont think the line between storm boyz and other fast units is as wide as it seems.

The problem is that you can't rely on the bikes making it to their target or doing nearly as much damage, or being as reliable in terms of sticking around if things don't go their way. You also get about 2 Storm Boyz for every bike. I don't mean to keep putting the bikes down like this, but to be honest I'm just not seeing them do anything well. Especially not doing something well enough in comparison to the Storm Boyz to label them anything other than "Poor".

Also, the takktica was updated with the suggestions mentioned here, I also threw the "put a boss in here to make them not as bad" in the Nobz and MegaNobz sections.

I'm with Voodoo in terms of the viability of bikes. If they were still fearless, a small mob of bikers would make a good nob delivery system. Without being fearless, the small (2+nob) mob now tests vs Ld7 after one casualty, and the reroll costs you a quarter of the unit half the time. And that just doesn't hold up compared to koptas and stormboyz.

I can see a couple of units of bikes being used effectively in conjunction with Ghazgulls ability to make non fleeing units fearless for a whole game turn, but I can never see them being more than one hit wonders.

Hi there!

Well, first post around, cheers for me!

First of all congratulations for the thread which is being carried with very healthy discussion almost in a "greek" point of view with all kinds of constructive crittics and a surprising rate of "in-topic" comments.

Second, here are my 2 cents for the fast attack section of the codex, specially regarding bikers and their utility vs stormboyz.
Unlike Voodoboyz I haven't had the chance to playtest the leak, so I'll be talking from my results in scratch paper and a little bit of abstract mathhammer, so maybe my ideas would crumble once put to the test.

IMHO bikers are only slight less competitive than stormboyz, if something they are less specialized and slightly more vertatile. Here's the comparison:
For the points cost of a big unit of 20 stormboyz along with nob, PK and bosspole you get 12 bikerz, nob, PK, and bosspole (and still have X points left that don't get you another bike, but close to it). It's not a big difference in numbers. Now what are the differences? We are talking about 8 bikerz less, so it's a priory a relative gap in terms of squad size.

1) stormboyz have the chance to move "normally" more than any biker UNLESS the bikes do turboboost. This has been enoughly stated but the implications are that you can better tweak movements towards cover and arrange charges better with stormboyz.
2) Stormboyz are easier to hide being infantry models. This is not a small detail when we talk about a horde army cover can be an expensive gift.
3) Stormboyz risk suffering wounds each time they do their extra movement, and they're not precisely durable in terms of armor
4) Stormboyz cannot turboboost which is a very useful ability that can get you objectives in the last turn or arrange a flank attack early in the game.
5) Bikerz are by far more hard to beat than stormboyz due to better armor, cover save and increased toughness.
6) Bikerz are shootier und thus can acomplish different tasks and pose a menace from a greater distance than stormboyz. 36 shots from 18'' is not something to disregard rapidly
7) Bikerz a good way of delivering the biker boss and the PK nob against AV 14 verhicles if they are a common issue in your gaming background. It's already been discussed that AV 14 is a major threat for orks and every little help can be useful.

Well this is just a starting point from which we can discuss further. I'm really interested in what you have to say...

I don't know what you're talking about here man. 12 Bikes is about 100 more points than 16 Storm Boyz. The costs for the Nob, PK, and Bosspoles are the same.

Ooooooops big calculation error!

Everything I said should be aplied to a big squad of 20 stormboyz, sorry people, but posting at the same time as working is not a good idea

I'll edit the original post as well, but in essence, save for the number of boyz the idea in the comparison is the same. Again, sorry for the horrible calculations...

Dude it's still not even that much. You literally get two storm boyz for every single bike you buy, and even then it's a point cheaper to have two storm boyz vs. one bike. Even the unit of 20 vs. 12 you're still looking at a decent number of points difference between the two units.

I see where you're going with this, and against certain targets where you can rely on taking armor saves to keep you alive, the Bikes are better off, but the Storm Boyz can handle most of those situations as well and they have a lot less to worry about Psychology wise on the way in to boot.

I just had another idea. how about a Big Mek with 3 oilers on a bike? should work well in armys with many vehicles.

True enough on the topic of psychology! But that's when it might be wothwhile to consider gifting the bikerz with da boss just to be sure. Points aside (really don't do this at a hospital ), I think mathammerwise 12 bikers should benefit for a while from the mob rule, even losing three of them, which is a lot more difficult than loosing 3 stormboyz, you still roll for Ld 9 without needing the boss, and you still have the nob and his bosspole if things get nasty. Moreover, these guys have a better chance of resisting the bosspole wound than the stormboyz themselves.

In the end I think that bikerz are maybe more difficult to use in order for them to pay off the points they cost (after finally calculating them well ) but they are slightly more versatile than sotmrboyz who on the other hand we all agree that are the best in the army list for doing their job. Still I would not overlook the idea of combining the squad with the biker boss at some parts of some battles, to gain a few more chances of hitting AV 14 vehicles.

Maybe these two points make the biker option ascend from poor to semi-competitive.

how can 30 str 5 twin linked shots not be a good thing? bikes are ment to thin down squads that you are preparing to assault, causing torrents of fire and such. you want your warboss biker to assault a pfist squad safely? torrent them and make the fist owner take the save.

with their 4+ cover and increased toughness they are more resilient than people are giving them credit for. add to that the nob w/ klaw and you have the ability to deal with vehicles or tac squads in a hurry. bikes could be used to tie up a dev squad on turn 2 because of their crazy movement.

I already own 15.. but they'll be replaced with the new models and I think they are definately worth fielding.

NaZ

Hello Voodoo and Everyone,

It's a great thread so far. Many thanks! I've found it very interesting.

I have to whole-heartedly concur with Voodoo's assessment that psychology will work against small, elite units of orks (barring any miraculous changes in the alleged 5th ed.) However, I think the disadvantages can be managed somewhat if a player is careful and thoughtful and, let's face it, a little lucky.

A unit with low numbers and a likely LD of 7 is going to suffer greatly from the loss of even a few models. In a one on one situation, this can be disastrous--poor model placement/removal can lead to a squad being annihilated via sweeping advance. Recall, however, that the sweeping advance applies only if the following conditions exist at the end of a round of HTH:

1) Orks have to loose combat. This is hardly a given. The good thing about Elite Ork units is that, for the most part, they are fairly good at HTH combat. Again, you're not likely to win against a dedicated cc unit like assault marines (which likely will attack first) or a HTH hoarde (like gaunts who will survive, hit back and outnumber)--so pick when and what you attack very carefully. Of course, no amount of planning can account for poor rolling and, inevitably players are going to take chances with elite units.

2) Orks have to fail a morale check. OK. The Mob rule is great if you have more than 7 models in your unit--otherwise, it's useless. As stated, this is a problem for elite units which likely will have 5-10 models. In this case, IMHO, Bosspoles are essential. I'd much rather pay the nominal fee for a bosspole than risk an entire elite unit on one die roll. Sure, you are obliged to take a wound for the privilege of re-rolling, but without the re-roll, that model is dead anyway. For this reason, I can't understand why people abhor the thought of having to take a 4+ save on an expensive biker. You aren't using the re-roll, after all, unless you've already failed the initial morale check. In any case, '7' is the number the most likely to come up when two six-sided dice are rolled. If you have two cracks at this roll, it's not that unlikely that at least one of those rolls will be successful. [Of course, you need to be aware of modifiers in this instance. It may not make sense to charge that expensive unit of bikers into a pile of gaunts, for example, as the outnumbering may cause havoc if the Orks should need to make a morale check.] Again, inevitably, players are going to fail morale checks, with or without bosspoles. So, onto number...

3) The Sweeping Unit Has to Have Models in Base to Base with the Fleeing Unit. I re-read the rules last night to ensure I was not talking out of my butt. In order to sweep, the 'sweeping' unit has to have models in B2B with the unit that looses combat. The advantage of having small elite units is that it allows you to more easily align the individual models to your advantage. Try and get it so that the unit is entirely within the killzone, but only a few models are actually in B2B. If you are losing models, you should remove them from the front first (ie those in base to base) so that, if you lose combat, the winning side can only consolidate while your breaking-off unit can move away 2D6 (3D6 in the case of bikes).

Of course, the disadvantage of taking models from the front is that you are removing engaged models--i.e. giving up potential attacks. So, you will have to decide on a case-by-case basis how and when models get removed. (Because of the proliferation of powerfists, you can almost guarantee that the opposition will be causing wounds at the initiative 1 level. You'll have to guage whether you want to risk keeping models in the fray or removing them for safety.) Casualty management, if you can call it that, is critical if you want to prolong the life of that small expensive unit.

4) The Sweeping Unit May Not Be Otherwise Engaged. The other condition that needs to be satisfied is that the 'sweeping unit' cannot be engaged by a separate unit. If it is, the elite, orky unit can withdraw normally without being overrun. In my opinion, this is the easiest way to guarantee the survival of your elite unit... use it as part of a coordinated strategy. Charge an enemy unit with the elites and a unit of boyz at the same time, for example. We can all agree that, now more than ever, mobs of boyz are basically just Nob delivery systems. They are cheap, but more importantly, they are fearless in numbers exceeding 11. If you manage to hit a unit with and elite and 'tie up' unit at the same time, you will enjoy many benefits:

1) The enemy will have to split its hth attacks between the elite unit and the mob. (Usually, neither the elite unit nor the mob will be subject to 100% of the opponents attacks. This means neither unit should get mauled).

2) You get more attacks on the enemy (obviously) and are more likely to win the combat.

3) For morale purposes you will outnumber the enemy in the event of a victory.

4) If you lose combat, the boyz will almost certainly remain stuck-in (if there are 11 or more they are fearless, if they have a bosspole they get a re-roll) giving your elite unit the opportunity to sneak away and regroup (hopefully).

5) If you wipe out the enemy, you can often consolidate your expensive unit behind the unit of boyz so they don't get mauled in the opponent's round of shooting and HTH.

Sure, there are lots of issues with timing charges like this, but in my opinion, the people who can overcome these challenges and get the "double charge" are the great 40K generals. In order for an army to enjoy regular success, it needs to be more than the sum of its parts.

Certain pairings work better together because of their relative speed--stormboyz or trukkboyz are better paired with bikers as they are both quick. Of course, bikers can wait in cover until the sloggers get into charge-range before springing the trap... it all depends on how each individual game unfolds. Consider as well, how the hit-and-run ability of dethkoptas might be applied to these tactics. I think there is a lot of potential.

Naturally, there are many variations to this plan. Dreds and Killa Kanz would also be appropriate 'tie-up' units... they are as equally fearless as boyz and will similarly allow expensive elite units to withdraw in the unlikley face of defeat.

So, in short, while I agree with Voodoo that elite unites with low numbers and low leadership can be problems, I think these units have more potential than he has given them credit for.

Hope this was useful.

Shamed-1