The one thing that stands out to me from all of this is that Kirby has managed to make people think of tabletop gaming as a "luxury". I've seen people defend the cost of the hobby by comparing it to golf or photography or console gaming, non of which are really valid comparisons. especially as £250 could get you a Xbox 360 with a 2 - 3 game bundle, all ready to go and the games could be traded in.

Tabletop gaming is not a "luxury" hobby. We are talking about objects made out of plastic, basically toys. Over the last couple of years he has proved that it's all about getting money out of 12 - 14 year olds. You can't even say that a £100 spent actually gets you a proper working game, they have to invest even more money, which Kirby knows will be a wasted investment as the kid drops out. Everything about GW's way of doing business is to exploit a certain age range, nothing more, nothing less.

That's one thing I will give GW - they have successfully perpetuated the myth that tabletop gaming is a luxury product. Look at all the people quick to defend the price as not that bad for the "enjoyment" that they get.

It is a luxury product. By definition. Do you need it to survive? If not, it's a luxury.

Luxury goods are products and services that are not considered essential and are associated with affluence. All wargaming products are luxury goods though, and that's what GW is forgetting - and people can still look for value inside a luxury good.

They may have managed that with a number of people. A lot of the rest of us find their products over-priced and of rather low quality if you are not specifically interested in the GW-ness of them.

Take the Knight Titan as an example. For £85 you get a "giant robot" model about the size of a Gundam. It is a single colour moulding with limited posability and only two weapon options.

The equivalent Gundam model is moulded in five or six colours of plastic on the sprue. It has multiple points of articulation using polycaps, allowing it to be posed after finishing, swappable weapons often with moving parts, and comes with a sheet of stickers for instant decoration.

But it costs less than half the price.

The GW model is clearly greatly inferior in all respects except for being designed in the 40K Imperial aesthetic.

Define your idea of luxury? It used to be that kids would spend their pocket money on this sort of stuff. Obviously that was a long time ago, but just because it's not essensual, it doesn't therefore mean it's a luxury. Is there a term for something in the middle?

No. Miniatures are clearly a luxury, just like video games, music, movie etc.

Premium is the word people are looking for here, I think. Does the quality of GW's product justify calling it a Premium Luxury product, and charging Premium prices?

Kirby clearly thinks so, and has staked his career and reputation on making it so.

Luxury item would be something you don't need to buy such as a TV. Luxury items don't have to cost millions of dollars or pounds. Essential items would be hygiene products, food, and shelter. Stuff that you need everyday that people buy. Warren Buffet always tells people to invest in companies that sell products that people need everyday such as toothpaste. But Buffet owns the biggest private jet leasing company in the world which would be a luxury item.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Define your idea of luxury?

Anything that's not essential, as I said.

It used to be that kids would spend their pocket money on this sort of stuff. Obviously that was a long time ago, but just because it's not essensual, it doesn't therefore mean it's a luxury. Is there a term for something in the middle?

It really does mean that. Candy is a luxury. Computers are a luxury (less so nowadays, but I think they still fall into that category).
New .mp3s are a luxury.

If you lost your job tomorrow, what would you cut spending on first? Those are luxury items.

GW charges premium prices for an average (some say below-average) product in a luxury market. That's why they're failing now that there are competitors that provide average-high prices for average-high quality products in a luxury market.

As above, luxury goods are the ones you like to buy if you have spare money after taking care of everyday needs.

From that angle all wargames are luxuries.

rigeld2 wrote:
It is a luxury product. By definition. Do you need it to survive? If not, it's a luxury.

Luxury goods are products and services that are not considered essential and are associated with affluence. All wargaming products are luxury goods though, and that's what GW is forgetting - and people can still look for value inside a luxury good.

That's not actually the definition of a luxury product (at least not in the economic sense).

A luxury good is one for which the demand increases more than proportionally as income rises. In other words, the richer people get, the more they want that item.

 Baragash wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
It just means that Kirby would stop getting ~£800k/year in dividends, which he'd no doubt make up for in profits.

Private companies pay owners in dividends too.

Yes, but that's a tax dodge as dividends are taxed at a lower rate than income, so you pay yourself a living wage and then a feth off big dividend at the end of the year. Can't remember the exact figure, but the % saving in tax is near or into double digits.

You can own a private company and not work for it, though I dare say most private company owners probably work as a director of their company. The point is that private companies also have shares and can declare dividends to the owners of the shares. The difference of a plc is that the shares can be traded on the open market without the permission of the directors.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The key surprise about the report was that Kirby in his preamble tried so hard to gloss over the presence of a massive elephant in the room -- the awful sales performance -- and said absolutely nothing about how he was going to address it.

That does not look like a CEO who is responsive to the concerns of his shareholders.

Speaking as an average layman who know nothing about buisness, even I could have said something better in his preamble, even if it was utter tripe:

"Our sales are currently down, much to our surprise, and we intend to thoroughly investigate this matter and come up with a solution which we hope shall see a rise in sales once more."

It's not effing difficult to do. Sure the actions are going to take effort, but the words alone would at least instill some sense of faith in the company to the reader.

 Selym wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The key surprise about the report was that Kirby in his preamble tried so hard to gloss over the presence of a massive elephant in the room -- the awful sales performance -- and said absolutely nothing about how he was going to address it.

That does not look like a CEO who is responsive to the concerns of his shareholders.

Speaking as an average layman who know nothing about buisness, even I could have said something better in his preamble, even if it was utter tripe:

"Our sales are currently down, much to our surprise, and we intend to thoroughly investigate this matter and come up with a solution which we hope shall see a rise in sales once more."

It's not effing difficult to do. Sure the actions are going to take effort, but the words alone would at least instill some sense of faith in the company to the reader.

Dang, as a stockholder, I'd much prefer that over insane ramblings.

 Selym wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The key surprise about the report was that Kirby in his preamble tried so hard to gloss over the presence of a massive elephant in the room -- the awful sales performance -- and said absolutely nothing about how he was going to address it.

That does not look like a CEO who is responsive to the concerns of his shareholders.

Speaking as an average layman who know nothing about buisness, even I could have said something better in his preamble, even if it was utter tripe:

"Our sales are currently down, much to our surprise, and we intend to thoroughly investigate this matter and come up with a solution which we hope shall see a rise in sales once more."

It's not effing difficult to do. Sure the actions are going to take effort, but the words alone would at least instill some sense of faith in the company to the reader.

Hey... Kirby might be a moron, but he is NOT a liar.

Kiwidru wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The key surprise about the report was that Kirby in his preamble tried so hard to gloss over the presence of a massive elephant in the room -- the awful sales performance -- and said absolutely nothing about how he was going to address it.

That does not look like a CEO who is responsive to the concerns of his shareholders.

Speaking as an average layman who know nothing about buisness, even I could have said something better in his preamble, even if it was utter tripe:

"Our sales are currently down, much to our surprise, and we intend to thoroughly investigate this matter and come up with a solution which we hope shall see a rise in sales once more."

It's not effing difficult to do. Sure the actions are going to take effort, but the words alone would at least instill some sense of faith in the company to the reader.

Hey... Kirby might be a moron, but he is NOT a liar.

Yea! I mean, he just says whatever pops into his head, without thinking about what it means or why he is saying it. Lying implies a specific intent to deceive. Kirby's only specific intent is to compare himself to Steve Jobs.

weeble1000 wrote:

Kiwidru wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The key surprise about the report was that Kirby in his preamble tried so hard to gloss over the presence of a massive elephant in the room -- the awful sales performance -- and said absolutely nothing about how he was going to address it.

That does not look like a CEO who is responsive to the concerns of his shareholders.

Speaking as an average layman who know nothing about buisness, even I could have said something better in his preamble, even if it was utter tripe:

"Our sales are currently down, much to our surprise, and we intend to thoroughly investigate this matter and come up with a solution which we hope shall see a rise in sales once more."

It's not effing difficult to do. Sure the actions are going to take effort, but the words alone would at least instill some sense of faith in the company to the reader.

Hey... Kirby might be a moron, but he is NOT a liar.

Yea! I mean, he just says whatever pops into his head, without thinking about what it means or why he is saying it. Lying implies a specific intent to deceive. Kirby's only specific intent is to compare himself to Steve Jobs.

Steve jobs is dead so...perhaps Kirby should think carefully and reconsider that comparison.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
It just means that Kirby would stop getting ~£800k/year in dividends, which he'd no doubt make up for in profits.

Private companies pay owners in dividends too.

Yes, but that's a tax dodge as dividends are taxed at a lower rate than income, so you pay yourself a living wage and then a feth off big dividend at the end of the year. Can't remember the exact figure, but the % saving in tax is near or into double digits.

10 percentage points on the basic rate, 7.5 percentage points on the mid-band and 2.5 percentage points on the higher band.

That being said, I don't see how the motivation for paying things a certain way is relevant to the fact of whether or not they can or are done that way.

Wolfstan wrote:Over the last couple of years he has proved that it's all about getting money out of 12 - 14 year olds. You can't even say that a £100 spent actually gets you a proper working game, they have to invest even more money, which Kirby knows will be a wasted investment as the kid drops out. Everything about GW's way of doing business is to exploit a certain age range, nothing more, nothing less.

Heh. I just finished explaining to another guy, on another forum, who was wondering why GW seems so kiddified now, compared to how kewl they were when he was a... kid.

Kilkrazy wrote:Take the Knight Titan as an example. For £85 you get a "giant robot" model about the size of a Gundam. It is a single colour moulding with limited posability and only two weapon options.
The GW model is clearly greatly inferior in all respects except for being designed in the 40K Imperial aesthetic.

I was in the Belfast shops last week, comparing a few things. £85 will get me a knight: a collection of thin polystyrene parts with a GW stamp. Meanwhile, over in B&Q, less than £60 would get me a dremel with a bunch of accessories.

I'd go for the latter much sooner. And this is from someone who'd really like a knight, just for the look of the thing; the 40K imperial aesthetic.

Saldiven wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It is a luxury product. By definition. Do you need it to survive? If not, it's a luxury.

Luxury goods are products and services that are not considered essential and are associated with affluence. All wargaming products are luxury goods though, and that's what GW is forgetting - and people can still look for value inside a luxury good.

That's not actually the definition of a luxury product (at least not in the economic sense).

A luxury good is one for which the demand increases more than proportionally as income rises. In other words, the richer people get, the more they want that item.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_goods

Yeah plastic toys are not luxury goods, if it was made out of gold or it was made by Lois Vuitton then it would be a Luxury Good.

Now this is a luxury good!



GW just not has the Brand recognition or the quality to call itself a luxury item.

How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

Just because I have disposable income it doesn't mean that anything I buy with it is a luxury item. Whether it's something I need to "live" is another argument. Being able to spend £20 here and there for extras is different to spending £400 on a TV. Those small purchases add to the quality of my life.

rigeld2 wrote:
How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

It's not a luxury good because the only thing luxury about it is the price charged. Is a Ford a luxury car? How about a Ford that cost $80,000? That's just an overpriced car, nothing luxury about it.

Wargaming is a "luxury" hobby in the same sense as anything else that isn't needed, but GW figures have nothing luxury about them besides the luxury price.

Kirby likes to talk about GW stuff as being luxury goods because it explains the way they keep on selling as the price goes up and up and up.

Only the thing is that sales are down.

WayneTheGame wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

It's not a luxury good because the only thing luxury about it is the price charged. Is a Ford a luxury car? How about a Ford that cost $80,000? That's just an overpriced car, nothing luxury about it.

Wargaming is a "luxury" hobby in the same sense as anything else that isn't needed, but GW figures have nothing luxury about them besides the luxury price.

... Which is what I said. It's a premium priced luxury item.
Edit: that doesn't have anything to justify its premium price.

rigeld2 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

It's not a luxury good because the only thing luxury about it is the price charged. Is a Ford a luxury car? How about a Ford that cost $80,000? That's just an overpriced car, nothing luxury about it.

Wargaming is a "luxury" hobby in the same sense as anything else that isn't needed, but GW figures have nothing luxury about them besides the luxury price.

... Which is what I said. It's a premium priced luxury item.
Edit: that doesn't have anything to justify its premium price.

from the wiki;

Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become wealthier, they will buy more and more of the luxury good.

Economics are up GW sales are down ergo plastic toys are not a luxury good even if GW price them as one.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

It's not a luxury good because the only thing luxury about it is the price charged. Is a Ford a luxury car? How about a Ford that cost $80,000? That's just an overpriced car, nothing luxury about it.

Wargaming is a "luxury" hobby in the same sense as anything else that isn't needed, but GW figures have nothing luxury about them besides the luxury price.

... Which is what I said. It's a premium priced luxury item.
Edit: that doesn't have anything to justify its premium price.

from the wiki;

Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become wealthier, they will buy more and more of the luxury good.

Economics are up GW sales are down ergo plastic toys are not a luxury good even if GW price them as one.

Only applies ceteris paribus. Since GW's prices have also risen significantly you need to isolate and remove the price elasticity of demand in order to determine the income elasticity of demand.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
How is it not a luxury good?
Demand increases as income increases - as you have more money, you spend more on toys.
As income decreases, plastic dude men are less important.

The material is irrelevant.

It's not a luxury good because the only thing luxury about it is the price charged. Is a Ford a luxury car? How about a Ford that cost $80,000? That's just an overpriced car, nothing luxury about it.

Wargaming is a "luxury" hobby in the same sense as anything else that isn't needed, but GW figures have nothing luxury about them besides the luxury price.

... Which is what I said. It's a premium priced luxury item.
Edit: that doesn't have anything to justify its premium price.

from the wiki;

Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become wealthier, they will buy more and more of the luxury good.

Economics are up GW sales are down ergo plastic toys are not a luxury good even if GW price them as one.

That's a simplistic way of looking at it that ignores many other factors, like price elasticity. Sales are down because customers perceive poor quality for high prices, whilst competitors offer better value, not because miniatures are not a luxury item.

And economics may be "up" but that doesn't mean everybody suddenly has more money. Money is still tight for the average person.

Miniatures ARE a luxury.
Some miniatures are even a Premium Luxury, if the quality justifies the price.
For the most part, the quality of GW's product do no justify the price, therefore they are a luxury just not a Premium Luxury.
Or rather, increasing numbers of people are beginning to see it that way and so sales are falling.

Things you don't need to survive, are essential. Food, shelter, clothing, medicine, transport.
Things that you can do without if necessary= luxuries.

Miniatures pretty clearly fall into the latter.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

Economics are up GW sales are down ergo plastic toys are not a luxury good even if GW price them as one.

Sales are booming for the rest of the wargames industry, so I'm not sure you can assert that mini's aren't a luxury good. You could argue GW mini's aren't a luxury good though.

I buy more mini's when I'm feeling flush, but almost none of them are from GW.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Things you don't need to survive, are essential. Food, shelter, clothing, medicine, transport.
Things that you can do without if necessary= luxuries.

Miniatures pretty clearly fall into the latter.

What, that is crazy by your own standred they aren't luxuries, as I sure most do need them to survive .

Noir wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Things you don't need to survive, are essential. Food, shelter, clothing, medicine, transport.
Things that you can do without if necessary= luxuries.

Miniatures pretty clearly fall into the latter.

What, that is crazy by your own standred they aren't luxuries, as I sure most do need them to survive .

They're in the same category, economically speaking.

We seem to be having an argument based around differing semantics and definitions.

Largely based around the difference between proper and colloquial use of language.

Many people use the term 'luxury' to refer to premium - and enough people never use the term premium in that regard at all.

The confusion lies, I think, in the word 'luxurious' rather than in the word 'luxury' itself. )With a rider on terms like 'living in luxury'.)

Nevertheless, Noir is correct. Because the day you finish painting your miniatures is the day that you die....

Honestly, even as premium goods, GW has overpriced its products - better can be had for less.

Plastic models are not premium items.

And the rules... are average, at best, yet cost far more than any of their competition.

The Auld Grump

I consider Rolex's, Ferrari's, Haute Couture, Chanel Nr. 5 , Armini suits, Dom perignon, caviar, etcetera Luxury goods, i don't consider toys, comics, CD's and DVD's Luxury goods they are mass market items, even with a low income they are reachable for the consumer.

Luxury goods can only be easily bought by people with a high(er) income. If you just say that everything that is not needed for survival is a luxury good, means that toilet paper also a luxury good.

Just that GW wants to be perceived as a brand that makes Luxury items, doesn't make it so.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I consider Rolex's, Ferrari's, Haute Couture, Chanel Nr. 5 , Armini suits, Dom perignon, caviar, etcetera Luxury goods, i don't consider toys, comics, CD's and DVD's Luxury goods they are mass market items, even with a low income they are reachable for the consumer.

Luxury goods can only be easily bought by people with a high(er) income. If you just say that everything that is not needed for survival is a luxury good, means that toilet paper also a luxury good.

Just that GW wants to be perceived as a brand that makes Luxury items, doesn't make it so.

Those are Veblen goods.

 agnosto wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I consider Rolex's, Ferrari's, Haute Couture, Chanel Nr. 5 , Armini suits, Dom perignon, caviar, etcetera Luxury goods, i don't consider toys, comics, CD's and DVD's Luxury goods they are mass market items, even with a low income they are reachable for the consumer.

Luxury goods can only be easily bought by people with a high(er) income. If you just say that everything that is not needed for survival is a luxury good, means that toilet paper also a luxury good.

Just that GW wants to be perceived as a brand that makes Luxury items, doesn't make it so.

Those are Veblen goods.

See, I learn things. I wiki'd that and I get it. Games Workshop minis are certainly not a Veblen items to me, but would they be considered them overall? I can't see plastic army men falling into that category and the financials GW released seem to imply just as much.

 TheKbob wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I consider Rolex's, Ferrari's, Haute Couture, Chanel Nr. 5 , Armini suits, Dom perignon, caviar, etcetera Luxury goods, i don't consider toys, comics, CD's and DVD's Luxury goods they are mass market items, even with a low income they are reachable for the consumer.

Luxury goods can only be easily bought by people with a high(er) income. If you just say that everything that is not needed for survival is a luxury good, means that toilet paper also a luxury good.

Just that GW wants to be perceived as a brand that makes Luxury items, doesn't make it so.

Those are Veblen goods.

See, I learn things. I wiki'd that and I get it. Games Workshop minis are certainly not a Veblen items to me, but would they be considered them overall? I can't see plastic army men falling into that category and the financials GW released seem to imply just as much.

I had to Google it as well.

I agree, but I think that GW classifies themselves that way.

But does not succeed.

Hell... one of these days I want to own a Morgan (the car... not a horse)... and that is about as obvious a Veblen item as any....

The Auld Grump

Oh my word. Two pages later and we're still debating about luxury goods. Zzzzzzz

 MWHistorian wrote:
Oh my word. Two pages later and we're still debating about luxury goods. Zzzzzzz

No, two pages later and we have finished defining terms....

Honestly - that digression was simply a way for folks to try to defend GW's stance, and not even a true debate.

On the other hand, I had never heard of Veblen Goods before, so I learned something, at least.

Whether measured as a premium item or a luxury item, GW is not worth the price that they are trying to get.

The Auld Grump

Noir wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Things you don't need to survive, are essential. Food, shelter, clothing, medicine, transport.
Things that you can do without if necessary= luxuries.

Miniatures pretty clearly fall into the latter.

What, that is crazy by your own standred they aren't luxuries, as I sure most do need them to survive .

I knew someone would say that.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Oh my word. Two pages later and we're still debating about luxury goods. Zzzzzzz

No, two pages later and we have finished defining terms....

Honestly - that digression was simply a way for folks to try to defend GW's stance, and not even a true debate.

On the other hand, I had never heard of Veblen Goods before, so I learned something, at least.

Whether measured as a premium item or a luxury item, GW is not worth the price that they are trying to get.

The Auld Grump

Absolutely agreed.

Whether viewed as "premium" or "luxury" or whatever, there is still the issue of "value."

A person buys a high end auto not just for the perceived higher quality of the car but also for the way people perceive them as an owner of that car. They, consciously or not, what to put out the perception that they are of a certain socio-economic status. They want to set themselves apart from those who cannot afford such items.

Nobody buys GW miniatures for that reason.

So the people that buy the 'high end' (or at least pricey) GW carry cases and then walk around towns with the eagle hidden against their leg are...

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Whether measured as a premium item or a luxury item, GW is not worth the price that they are trying to get.

Yup. Which is what I said.

 Riquende wrote:
So the people that buy the 'high end' (or at least pricey) GW carry cases and then walk around towns with the eagle hidden against their leg are...

Fanboys.

To clarify, notice that they're not buying the overpriced GW carry cases to port around their Avatars of War models. These are the same guys who lap up the limited edition releases, gush over the quality of everything GW, and rarely play any other TTWG (if ever).

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
We seem to be having an argument based around differing semantics and definitions.

Anything to obfuscate the actual issue, right?

 Riquende wrote:
So the people that buy the 'high end' (or at least pricey) GW carry cases and then walk around towns with the eagle hidden against their leg are...

Nazis. Obviously.

Again, a line needs to be drawn here.

Are GW products luxury products in the economic sense?

Almost definitely.

Are GW a luxury brand?

Almost definitely not.

Almost everything to do with any hobby or pastime is likely to be considered a luxury good, as hobbies are what we do with our spare time and income.

GW defies classification as a luxury brand by almost every metric outside of their own assertion and the pricing.

I think a lot of the misconception comes from resale value too... many (most?) luxury items tend to appreciate (or depreciate more slowly) than common items. In that regard, it seems that many other manufacturers have a leg up on GW items, which generally depreciate in value the more they are used/modeled/painted. (and i say generally because for every 99 of us that destroy the resale value of their minis, there is 1 superb painter that just likes the aesthetic that the pose-able sculptures offer, and can on occasion make a profit off the endeavor).

it also doesnt help that the GW rules churn tends to make unit options that were amazing and sought after in the yesteryear completely lackluster and undesirable over time. This is where the other companies are really showing their youthful adaptation. PP, FOW, etc, all offer lines of minis that offer a single unit with no weapons options, and then give the customization aspect through adding additional models to that unit. This means that winterguard are winterguard are winterguard, and they retain value based on the fact that they are easy to trade because everyones are the same.

I guess I can justify the multi-page debate on "luxury" since it is an emotional decision.

Kirby justifies high prices of his product as some high-end status symbol "needed" items that has such high production "value" <cough> so we as customers can somehow justify the purchase. I am unsure what audience he perceives as holding his product in that illustrious high regard making us want to be part of the "in" crowd.

The problem is, unlike all the various companies he likes to compare with: his product is not better in executed quality than his competitors.
So he is trying to rely on brand-name alone to justify higher prices, how very 80's mentality of him.
Even Coke could only go so-far with that.

When I can buy a better detailed tank for half the price complete with metal and etched parts some thought process of "when is high price, too high?" should start happening.
The financial report may be the indicator needed to show "what the market can bare" has been reached.

What they also forget is many models do get dropped from a Codex revision in an effort to make room for new model sales but will devalue the models as well since you never know what will be the next one gone (SW Santa sleigh any time soon? PLEASE?). It seems to put emphasis on spending the money on core units and the new fancy models may be gone next year so do not bother.

Leaning on the "boys before toys" rule with armies lately due to the publication instability and it has not steered me wrong but GW is not getting much cash out of me.
I do not think I am all that unique in this stance.

I will go back to saving my coin for luxuries like Scotch and Whisky which also has no place in the required things in life...

I've said it before and it bears repeating:

Imagine if McDonalds started to sell $10 "gourmet" hamburgers that were their normal hamburgers with a better bun, and put out literature saying their burgers are gourmet burgers that you can't get anywhere else.

That's basically what GW is doing. Their figures are cheap 28mm plastic with decent to good quality (quality subjective) but priced as though they were large-scale pewter (or more expensive) figures and advertised as having this amazing quality that justifies the high price.

The problem is that Kirby presents himself as the second coming of Steve Jobs and GW as the Apple of their industry. Once you read thes sort of things from him often enough, their pricing and decision-making starts to make a sick sort of sense...


I feel dirty.

 agnosto wrote:
The problem is that Kirby presents himself as the second coming of Steve Jobs and GW as the Apple of their industry. Once you read thes sort of things from him often enough, their pricing and decision-making starts to make a sick sort of sense...


I feel dirty.

I'm seriously considering buying a Baneblade, I feel worse.

On the plus side, my last 1,000 points of IG has not been from GW, and they've not recieved a penny for new sets of rules since 6th.

 Selym wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The problem is that Kirby presents himself as the second coming of Steve Jobs and GW as the Apple of their industry. Once you read thes sort of things from him often enough, their pricing and decision-making starts to make a sick sort of sense...


I feel dirty.

I'm seriously considering buying a Baneblade, I feel worse.

On the plus side, my last 1,000 points of IG has not been from GW, and they've not recieved a penny for new sets of rules since 6th.

Psst. Ebay. And it'll be cheaper too...

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The problem is that Kirby presents himself as the second coming of Steve Jobs and GW as the Apple of their industry. Once you read thes sort of things from him often enough, their pricing and decision-making starts to make a sick sort of sense...


I feel dirty.

I'm seriously considering buying a Baneblade, I feel worse.

On the plus side, my last 1,000 points of IG has not been from GW, and they've not recieved a penny for new sets of rules since 6th.

Psst. Ebay. And it'll be cheaper too...

Yea, but I want the entire box of sprues, and have a certainty of replacements if it was produced wrong

And I think we're done here. See y'all in another 5 months.