AlexCage wrote:Possibly another "Durr" moment, but what the hell is :
Obus Brise-forteresses 48ps 10 1 Lourde 1, Explosion* 53?

I find it odd that this isn't classified as "Artillerie". And it looks like all the other tanks are already accounted for.

Edit: Durr. Yeah, Bunker buster round for, what I can only guess is the Medusa. I still find it very odd it's not ordnance.

It doesn't need to be Ordnance if it has the rumored +D6 AP against vehichles, which supercedes the Ordnance rule.

It looks like one of the Russ varient turrets will be a plasmacannon that's heavy 3.

The Executioner sounds cool. I might get a few of those.

Capt K

I might have to buy those blisters of Ogryns that have been gathering dust at my FLGS for the past year or two....

I may need to load up on more melta guns for STs so they can para-drop and then slag a unit of space marines.

If I ever get my Nocturne (Salamanders Homeworld) themed IG army off the ground, I'm gonna be loading up on so many of these tank variants it'll be ridiculous. Especially the Hellhound variants. (Any guesses for real names for them? Cerberus?)

chaplaingrabthar wrote:If I ever get my Nocturne (Salamanders Homeworld) themed IG army off the ground, I'm gonna be loading up on so many of these tank variants it'll be ridiculous. Especially the Hellhound variants. (Any guesses for real names for them? Cerberus?)

I'm pretty sure that the english names for the hellhound variants will be the same as they are in french, and spanish.

Has everyone seen the english translated pdf? Link here:
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3306977&postcount=1067

the translated one says a hellhound is heavy? stormtroopers are fast attack? maybe I missed that before...

Grain of salt.

As mythos pointed out, the page references are more likely the references for the ules section, and not the army list section and therefore have nothing to do with the FOC.

Im so glad that the worst part of these rumors, if true which is likely, is that I'm going to have to get so many new tanks. Except my wallet won't like that.

It sounds like the HW teams are going to be handled somewhat liek Skaven jezzails.

Balance wrote:It sounds like the HW teams are going to be handled somewhat liek Skaven jezzails.

Or like Space Marine Attack Bikes.

Maybe it's just that I don't like being wrong after championing all of Mkoll's rumors from Boot Camp, but am I the only Guard player who's not jumping up and down about this? I think part of my beef with it is that it just all feels so...fanboy.

I was kind of scornful of Agamemnon2's pessimistic attitude at some of the earlier rumors, but now I'm afraid I've got it. Yeah, I mocked the possibility of 22 tanks and I mocked the Spanish rumors. Because it just seemed way too OTT.

Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.

Not long at all, but that would be true no matter what they gave us. At least now we can also build omega-fluffy lists as well as the 2-3 powerbuilds that will be al you ever see at tournaments.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.

If the IG get three powerbuilds with as much diversity in tactics & unit selection as the three ork archetypes you highlight, I will be THRILLED. While "Nob bikers" is a fairly narrow build, both of the other archetypes you mention have quite a bit of room for diversity of selection and playstyle.

Guard will always equal guns; it's already narrower in overall scope than the ork codex. It is nice to see this much diversity of firepower, as it increases the probability that there will be several completely different competitive builds.

Well the simple fact is you can always pare down a list and game the system more than playing the game. Its just the nature of any system. I think this list comes a bit better than all that though, until we see the point costs and no for sure, it seems most of the leman russ tanks are relatively similar in capabilities and the assault versions are all relatively similar to the demolisher. Everything seems to have some slight variation, which will allow individual play style and tactics to have more impact.

I've never understood the fascination of taking one of these preconceived power gamer lists and building your army around it. You might as well buy a boxed army, because you're cheating yourself out of the satisfaction of winning something entirely on your own. On the flip side, I've seen people who were so poor at playing no power gamer list could help them.

Janthkin wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.

If the IG get three powerbuilds with as much diversity in tactics & unit selection as the three ork archetypes you highlight, I will be THRILLED. While "Nob bikers" is a fairly narrow build, both of the other archetypes you mention have quite a bit of room for diversity of selection and playstyle.

Guard will always equal guns; it's already narrower in overall scope than the ork codex. It is nice to see this much diversity of firepower, as it increases the probability that there will be several completely different competitive builds.

Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.

There are always us players who build lists because they're cool, fun, fluffy, or they just want to take 3 friggin' ICBMS in one firefight (I LOVE YOU DEATHSTRIKE!!!)

There's always going to be the one or two 'powerlists', but there's not always going to be the guarantee of getting options to do basically whatever you want with your army. Guard look to be getting pretty much limitless variation.

And now it seems that even the fluffy lists will be somewhat competitive. Or at least you won't be crippling your army by taking certain choices (like insanely overpriced Chimeras or Commissars, or nearly useless Ogryn).

But seriously. ICBMs. /GLEE!

Thanks Kid Kyoto for getting a pic of the PDF on Dakka!

Wow, looks like something the Orks will be deathly afraid of, points costs pending of course.

And yeah, once the book is out expect it to all be peeled away and have the power lists be obvious pretty quick. It didn't take us very long to figure out "Shoota's + Lootas" when the first Ork leak came out in text form over on the-waaagh.

One thing I was surprised is that it appears Ratlings will have regular sniper rifles after all. I was expecting something else when I saw the guns the models were holding (which look pretty distinctive and not at all like previous Imperial Sniper Rifles).

Death By Monkeys wrote:I was kind of scornful of Agamemnon2's pessimistic attitude at some of the earlier rumors, but now I'm afraid I've got it. Yeah, I mocked the possibility of 22 tanks and I mocked the Spanish rumors. Because it just seemed way too OTT.

It's ironic because I've had to eat record amounts of crow this rumor season. The Spanish list looks to be word-for-word accurate, including penal legionnaires and a million new tank types. Now, I'm still not ecstatic here (Ogryns losing two points of Ld is huge, for example), but I'm feeling pretty darn good about things (especially if the new Codex lets me put a Commissar into an Ogryn squad).

I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

I'm really excited about this. I haven't been excited about a codex in a long, long time so the thought of all the goodies that my Renegade IG will get to use is making me all warm and fuzzy inside.

And now I'm looking at the Death Korps models and wondering if it will be affordable to make a Mech DK force. Fewer line infantry to buy and I'd get to use all the new, fun tanks!

Uh oh, I've caught IG fever!!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I didn't see points costs? Were they there? Hard to say whats hot or not without them

ShumaGorath wrote:Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.

True - and frankly, prior to this Guard had no viable tournament builds. Or at least none worth a damn.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

I think that may be another problem I'm having with all this. I'm currently just a fledgling IG player, coming into the list at the end of its 3E Codex lifespan. Consequently, I don't have the Guard collection that a lot of other folks do, so I'm picky about how I build and arm my models. Frankly, even if I did have a big selection, with some of these new choices, I wouldn't have a choice but to either:

a) Buy a new model and convert it to be something like a Deathstrike or a Devil Dog, or
b) Tear up one of my older models to convert it to be something that's unreleased.

I just finished one Hellhound conversion and I'm halfway through my second. Now I'm seeing that I'm either going to need to wait for the new Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf kit to come out and buy it, buy another Chimera Chassis and convert yet another Hellhound analog, or...hmmm...I suppose I could magnetize the fuel tank on the back and just build another turret...beh.

No one ever said that playing guard was easy on your wallet or your modeling and painting schedule, huh.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

That's certainly true, but the converter in me is already chomping at the bit. I already own a Griffon, Hydra and two Medusas, all converted from various plastic bits, and it's only a matter of time before inspiration strikes me to build a Colossus, Manticore or Deathstrike.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

This might be the final nail in the "Every Entry in the Codex Gets A Model" coffin...

I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...

The hellhound/devildog/banewolf are all included in the updated chimera.

Can someone help me out with this question:

Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?

I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...

I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*

Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?

we can see some of what Mkoll was talking about here.. in his defense, he was basing his rumors off of a much earlier version. Probably some early playtest codex or something.

I like the sheer variety of everything but at the same time it's almost a little crazy. I do hope when they release the new tank kits the will be easily magnetizable so that all it will take is a simple barrel swap to get the tank you want. I dunno why they just invented the punisher tank though, instead of just using vulcan megabolters. And why have a nova cannon on a tank? isn't that kind of a giant space ship kind of weapon?

Scottywan82 wrote:I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...

The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.

It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.

Alpharius wrote:Can someone help me out with this question:

Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?

I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...

The rumor is yes, either by commander upgrade or by special character. Seeing as Lukas Bastionne is apparently a squad sgt special character, it appears to be through upgrading your commander.

Janthkin wrote:
The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.

It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.

IG vehicles are not to the best of my knowledge STCs.

The confirmed rumor is that the Russ' in the initial Leman Russ are Battle Tank, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator.
Chimera and hellhound variants are together.


Alot is up in the air for the rest:
Leman Russ Kit 2 - Punisher, Executioner, Eradicator... possibly done as direct order sprues.
Basilisk/Griffon/Medusa/Colossus
Hydra/Manticore
Deathstrike

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.

This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).

Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.



Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!

Anung Un Rama wrote:I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*

Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?

Translates to (rifle to pump) Pump Rifle. You are correct.

Also, when will we be seeing these mythical recuts? 6 months? 12 months? It's a long time out.

I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.

Wave 2 is rumored to be 6 months after the release of the codex, so around November.

AlexCage wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.

This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).

Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.



Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!

Forge World is still pretty much out of the grasp of the average gamer, so I doubt GW would look to them to fill the gap in the long run. They might create resin versions, but sooner or later GW will create their own plastic kits (hopefully).

Straken has such a high save due to his bionic chest. Something to do with wrestling a Miral Landshark and losing.

edit.

aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.

I'm pretty sure I can scratch build a giant missile. Is this thing sitting on top of a Chimera chassis?

I agree that is the better way to go then FW, in this instance.

http://www.ifelix.net/gamingblog/wp-content/005_2a.jpg

Well as someone who had decided to return to the Guard with the new Codex over a year ago, all I can do at the moment is sit here with a smile on my face.

And my mate said he hated playing my old Guard army with his Orks.

aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin..

No they will make the missile hollow and in 7 different pieces, none of which will fit together

So if this is true, and it matches up with the other rumors that everyone else thought was way too Fanboy sounding....

Does that mean that we're probably looking at 40 point IG squads?

And the other rumors being probably true?

It will put a huge smile on my face to think that Orks & IG will be the Power Gaming armies of 40k 5th Edition.

How Far We've Come....

Here's a good model that will be 6x cheaper than a FW deathstrike at $185

http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=16655&cat=355&page=1

Scuds to the rescue!

I was skeptical of the Spanish rumors, but I'm happy to be wrong.

It's just bittersweet that I still won't be able to use my Salamanders (and I don't want to hear the "A-word").

Now then, they just need to reveal the new Orders System in detail...

Edit: And I'm thrilled the Valkyrie is 12/12/10, instead of 12/10/10... I shuddered at the thought of all those Valkyries brought down by bolter fire. And AV12 Sentinels FTW.

Necros wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin..

No they will make the missile hollow and in 7 different pieces, none of which will fit together

True it'd probably a couple of ring shaped sections that stack with a end cap on each end. Irregardless they'd charge $200+

ubermosher wrote:It's just bittersweet that I still won't be able to use my Salamanders (and I don't want to hear the "A-word").

There's nothing stopping you from using the rules from Imperial Armour Volume 1 when the update PDF comes out.

Except for anal opponents who don't think the IA books are legal...

This is all pretty much awesome, but the thought of dragging a ballistic missile all the way to the front line is ridiculous.

But other than that it's all awesome, I can't wait to get my hands on these recut kits everyone is expecting.

I am ready to be overpowered

Alpharius wrote:This might be the final nail in the "Every Entry in the Codex Gets A Model" coffin...

I bloody hope not. Having come from 2nd Ed, where it was mostly pot luck if you got a model to represent a Codex entry, and then into 3rd and 4th, where they went out of their way to ensure everything had a model, I do not want to go back to where there were units that simple do not get models.

That said, it has already started. There's no Buggy/Wartrakk, there are no Flash Gitz, there's no Deff Kopta outside of the Battle for Black Lagoon box, and a few of the special characters haven't got models (and I'd be suprised if we ever saw them).

Ok, so we get a recut Hellhound that has a Hellhound and Stupid Named Tank #1 and Stupid Named Tank #2, so you can do Flamy, Poison or Melta. We get a Russ that has Exterminator and Vanquisher bits and a Demolisher that has Punisher, Eradicator and Executioner bits. I doubt both of those as that's a lot of tanks. What's next? Ok, a Basilisk/Medusa Kit and a Griffon/Colossus kit. Then what? We've still got a Hydra, Manticore and fuggin' Deathstrike do go, and we don't even yet have Penal Legionarres or actual Veteran models.

So Guard are going to have, at minimum, 8 tank-sized kits on the shelf? Hellhound & Friends, the Chimera, Russ & Friends, Demolisher & Friends, Basilisk/Medusa, Griffon/Colossus, Hydra & Friends, Valkyrie/Vendetta?

No. It's too much. We are just not going to see models for half of these things. If I'm wrong, great, but unless my jokes about Guard stretching out releases all the way to Wave 27 in Q3 2028 are true, we're not going to be seeing these things.

[EDIT]: It was often joked that when Jervis came on board to blandify 40K, he was bringing as much 2nd Edition stuff back as possible. Well, like with the recent releases, this is obviously true (Sanctioned Psykers, Chenkov, Nork, etc.), but it appears that with 2nd Ed flavour (modified by 5th Ed blandness), we're also getting the 2nd Ed uncertainly of miniature releases. No clue what's coming out, no clue if something will ever even come out, and months/years at a time when something never gets made.

I said when GW started the 'Wave' thing that I was in support of it, because gradual support is better than dumping everything on new players (and stores for that matter). But really, let me ask y'all this:

Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?

BYE

I said this before...

aka_mythos wrote:
The confirmed rumor is that the Russ' in the initial Leman Russ are Battle Tank, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator.
Chimera and hellhound variants are together.


Alot is up in the air for the rest:
Leman Russ Kit 2 - Punisher, Executioner, Eradicator... possibly done as direct order sprues.
Basilisk/Griffon/Medusa/Colossus
Hydra/Manticore
Deathstrike

I think the least likely model will be the Deathstrike.
I think the remaining Leman Russ variants could fit on a single sprue.
The basilisk, griffon, medusa, and colossus could easily have 90% shared parts and fit on two sprues.
Hydra and Manticore could be done on a single sprue on top of the chimera chassis.

Once the initial Chimera and Leman Russ kits are complete most everything else is only a couple of sprues.

Let us assume that the redone Chimera and Leman Russ are the only IG tank kits done. The IG model range drops 2 Sentinel Kits and 2 Tank kits, while gaining the Valkyrie. We gain the command squads but those effectively replace various metal minis. With heavy weapon teams included within the squad box, we lose those. We'd only need 3-4 tank kits... one of which would replace a current one bringing us to a total of 2-3 additional kits... replacing 2 tanks and 2 sentinels... this doesn't seem to far fetched. It might not happen for a time, but it does seem reasonable.

Damnit H.B.M.C. ! Enjoy the moment!!

I have a feeling it's gonna be more like the steamroller thingy for orks.. you'll get your main kit and it will make a few different versions, then for some other things you will have to special order a sprue from GW. Either that, or they're just going to point you to FW to get some stuff.

Good point, an accessory sprue might be what GW is going after some time with them variants.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?

The latter. My finances aren't boundless, so I couldn't buy everything at once anyway.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?

I'm with H.B.M.C. on this. I mean, there are a lot of folks that convert models because they like to. Then there are those that convert models because they have to. And then there are the folks who avoid converting so much they won't play a list that contains anything they have to convert. Those folks are going to have to be patient. And the ones that convert models because they have to are just going to get pissed after they've converted up something they want to use and then GW decides to release it a year and a half later. But, hey, it's a good strategy for GW - make us buy, buy, buy!

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the wave approach if GW would guarantee that all Codex entries would have a model within 18 months of the Codex release (or some similar time frame)

Agamemnon2 wrote:The latter. My finances aren't boundless, so I couldn't buy everything at once anyway.

You reasons make no sense. You don't have to buy everything when it comes out at the same time.

To put it another way:

You'd rather wait long periods for model kits to be released. You'd rather not know what model kit they're going to release. You'd rather not know if they're ever going to release a kit for a particular Codex entry. And you'd rather all of this than getting everything released as a model kit because you can't buy it all at once???

See how that doesn't track.

BYE

I'll take everything at once when the book is released so I can be poor for like 2 months while I paint all my new models. And be happy.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't mind the wave approach if GW would guarantee that all Codex entries would have a model within 18 months of the Codex release (or some similar time frame)

I don't care if the timeframe was even longer than that. Really 2 months or 2 years is a small price to pay for knowing that a kit is coming out. Right now we don't even know what's actually in 1st Wave Guard, let alone if the Punisher or the Hydra are ever going to get GW kits. If they said tomorrow that the Deathstrike is coming, but it's going to be a Q2 2011 release, that's fine! At least we know it's coming then. Right now we don't know if we're even getting one, and won't know for sure until a few months from release (remember didn't know what was in Ork Wave 2 for sure until a month or so before everything came out).

BYE

Obviously, if GW had endless resources it be great to see everything out at once. That just wouldn't work. At the same time I don't really like this wave approach because its proven that GW really can't do more than one thing at a time, and waves end up delaying other codices.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Guard are going to have, at minimum, 8 tank-sized kits on the shelf? Hellhound & Friends, the Chimera, Russ & Friends, Demolisher & Friends, Basilisk/Medusa, Griffon/Colossus, Hydra & Friends, Valkyrie/Vendetta?

No. It's too much. We are just not going to see models for half of these things. If I'm wrong, great, but unless my jokes about Guard stretching out releases all the way to Wave 27 in Q3 2028 are true, we're not going to be seeing these things.

But really, let me ask y'all this:

Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?

BYE

Maybe :

Leman russ + 6 different turret weapons on 1 sprue?

All tanks set.
reduced boxes on shelf -1.

Chimera + 6 different turret weapons plus additional pieces for hellhounds.
reduced boxes on shelf -1.

transport and FA set.

"Artillery" tank, chimera hull + 4 different cannons + 1 missile.

artillery set.

Valk + vendetta is possibly only a different weapon loadout, so +1 box on the shelf.
Hydra + manticore could use the same base,but will be hold back until we see more flyers in 40k. +1 box on the shelf later.

this sums up to +- 0 additional boxes.



"Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months,"

I would like to see all models been released until the following 3 months. ( codex + models, more models, completing range).

I guess I could go with a longer time frame, but anymore than 18-24 months is usually over half the life cycle of an edition, and it would kind of suck to know that Wave 3 of IG is coming out in Q2 2011, but that 40K6 is due 3Q 2011 and skews the balance pendulum back away from IG and other horde armies.

I wish people had read my post. 6th from the top.

As far as I know four plastic kits and four blisters are up for release in MAY. Three plastic kits have been confirmed and the Sentinel kit has also been shown so it would be a safe guess to say that the Valkyrie, Cadian command squad, Catachan command squad and redone Sentinel kit are the four plastic kits for the first week of wave 1. As for the blisters, good luck. Probably the Ratlings, advisors (Astropath, Naval officer and Master of Ordnance all in one blister), the commissar lord and Primaris psyker.

Modelling maths

Chimera chassis + 1/2 litre coca-cola bottle + imagination = Deathstrike

I wish actually building the thing could be that simple

Four boxes and four blisters have been confirmed. As I have said previously, is that:

Box -
Valk
Catachan Command
Cadian Command
Sentinel

Blister -
Commissar Lord
Primaris Psyker
Advisor Threesome
Ratlings

--- OR ---

Box -
Valk
Catachan Command
Cadian Command
Ratlings
[Sentinel = AWOL]

Blister -
Commissar Lord
Primaris Psyker
Advisor Threesome
[Unknown]


And the truth is we simply don't know. And this is after a GW 'Open' day. I'd hate to see what a closed day is... they might deny even making new Codices. And if the Sentinel isn't part of the first release, when's it getting released? This year? Next? Planet Strike? We won't even know when a Wave 2 is actually hitting until they tell us a month or so in advance.

We won't know what's coming out utnil Ghaz posts the Alliance game update, or GW updates their Advanced Orders section.

BYE

Considering they showed picture of the sentinel kit, I'd assume its in there.

Small boxed sets of metal figures are listed as blisters these days. Don't ask me why or how but they are.

I think they could get away with four tank boxes - the heavies /rear AV11), the standards (rear AV10), the artillery, the 'fast' ones (Chimera, HH variants). Or even three if it is possible to merge the Russ variants into one bigger box, plus sentinels.

I'm quite happy with all of this. Sure, some drops in may be problematic at times but there'll be ways around that. Chenkov can finally lead my Valhallans again, Ratlings stay BS4 (they were once rumoured to drop to BS3), Ogryns are much improved etc. etc. With the points drop and the new order system (!) we will be a force to be reckoned with.

Narlix wrote:
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3.

Well, it is rumoured to be a fast skimmer. Current Guard is decent at shooting stuff but horrible in the assault phase and lacking mobility/speed. Ogryns will address the former, and fast skimmers will address the latter (as will cheaper Chimeras and lumbering behemoths, albeit to a lesser extent). I'm pretty sure ST's will still be able to pack 2 special weapons. This means that the Valk will be able to shoot more guns than a tank and that the passengers have a chance to attack places one would never dream of before.

namegoeshere wrote:I didn't see points costs? Were they there? Hard to say whats hot or not without them

It is a summary, namegoeshere. When was the last time you swa point costs in a summary reference sheet?

Also, remeber that GW seems to be getting a small hint...just look at the new Shadowsword kit. They may just me small changes but that ARE trying to listen and put out multi variants in a box....

Oh, and of course I have to chime in with "awesome".

I'm okay with not knowing everything. If the GW release dates were the biggest uncertain element in my life, I'd be thrilled, nay, ecstatic. It's only a game, I can cope. Finding out whether or not they're planning to ever release a plastic Deathstike launcher is absolutely trivial to me. The reason I'd rather have the releases spaced out is because it gives us that greatest of all treasures, which is hope and sense of surprise. I would be bored to tears if I knew the release schedule 18 months in advance.

In any case, what happened to the rumor that the Astropath (and possibly the other advisors) would be Direct-only?

Yeah, the ne Bladeblade tank kit is a great example. Considering that you would just need other guns in a Leman Russ turret, it can't be that hard to recut the sprues so that every otpion will be an option.

Plus, it would be happy times for every Ork player who has a friend who plays guard

I think I prefer the wave approach than releasing it all at once. Just because is it gives you something new to look forward to, but that said there should also be a definite time frame for the waves and what is included. GW's "OMG don't tell them what we're making!!!" attitude is just silly.

I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"

Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar.

There's the long barrel.
The very long barrel with the cap.
The short barrel.
The short barrel with the cap.
The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long.

And then the Stormlord, which Guard players will be using parts from to make the Punisher until the Punisher gets a kit (assuming the Punisher gets a kit).

At the end of the day, I can't wait to get this Codex - so much stuff to steal for 40K Revisited - but the current situation with miniature releases is pathetic, and needs to be changed. GW's secrecy is one thing, but when we get a new Codex and don't even know if we'll get models to represent our new entries (let alone when we're getting them), that's going a bit beyond the stupid 3 month window bull$hit. There needs to be a line drawn, or a mission statement that says either "We will release kits for everything" or "We won't be doing kits for all entries". Either statement is a win for the players, because it at least gives us something to work with.

BYE

Leggy wrote:Modelling maths

Chimera chassis + 1/2 litre coca-cola bottle + imagination = Deathstrike

I wish actually building the thing could be that simple

Forget that.

Chimera chassis + real July 4th rocket + this lighter = I win or your army literally gets blown off the table.

Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"

In the most polite manner possible:

Bite me.

Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.

I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here).

My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work.

It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful.

BYE

Well, what can WE do about it?

No, I am not being sarcastic here.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar.

There's the long barrel.
The very long barrel with the cap.
The short barrel.
The short barrel with the cap.
The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long.

For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.

Well the Commissar smiley in your sig certainly brings a few ideas to mind.

BYE

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:

Narlix wrote:
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3.

Well, it is rumoured to be a fast skimmer. Current Guard is decent at shooting stuff but horrible in the assault phase and lacking mobility/speed. Ogryns will address the former, and fast skimmers will address the latter (as will cheaper Chimeras and lumbering behemoths, albeit to a lesser extent). I'm pretty sure ST's will still be able to pack 2 special weapons. This means that the Valk will be able to shoot more guns than a tank and that the passengers have a chance to attack places one would never dream of before.

Fast skimmer or not, it would still be over priced at 90 points, The storm Troopers even with plasma agianst an meq your talking 4 to 5 wounds, give a 4+ cover save so 2 to 3 dead, thats alot of dead marines,but your talking 130ish points in Storm Troopers another 90ish points of Valk to kill 48 points of marines ( or same number of Orks math is the same).

For the same points you are spending on a valk and full stormie squad you can get two squads of regular IG guys with heavy bolter, plasma gun and 2 chimeras with heavy stubbers. So here is the question 6 multi laser, 6 heavy stubber, 12 heavy bolter, 4 plasma gun, 32 las gun shot at BS3 or 16 hell gun 4 plasma at BS4, one of these options will kill alot more stuff, in a much better way, with more versatlity, and almost as much moblity. hell even without the 32 las gun shots it still kills more than the Stormies and valk.

Now don't get me wrong, Stormies can be useful just not as suicidal one use units. This is why i think the Valk is going to have to be in the 50 to 60 point range to be useable. at that price it really only has the multi laser, its not twin-linked. lets compare it to a wave serpent, the wave serpent averages 110 ish points , it has a twin-linked catapult ( def weapon)and the main weapon in this case bright lances or scatter lasers are also twin linked. The armor is the same but the wave serpent has the little shield thing, and a slew of upgrade options , including one that makes it land , and another that lets it move 36 inches in one turn, The waveserpent can also be taken by deacated assault troops.

Basicly what im saying is the wave serpent is the closest thing in the game to the suspected valk, its weapon load out, options, and surviablity are better but people keep wanting to point them almost the same , it just dosen't make good sense.

Just to add fuel to the complaining fire (Because what would the internet be without bitching?)

Not only do we not know what is in the next waves (And thus, don't know if the models we want will EVER get made), there's no way to know what Forge World will make, either (as usual).

What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.

So even for those of us who can practically(as practical as FW ever is) rely on Forge World to fill in the gaps, we're likely to end up waiting for months upon months, or longer, still.

Yeah, I like having something to look forward to, also. But honestly, I stopped looking forward to 'vaporware' when Duke Nuken Forever entered it's second decade with no evidence of development. I'm NOT excited about looking forward to what's in the "Mystery Box", or playing a guessing game when drafting up conversions or deciding on new Forge World purchases. The last thing I want is to spend weeks converting up a kickass Colossus battery, only for GW to turn around and drop one in my lap that's 10x cooler.


But I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm REALLY looking forward to this release. It could be bigger, but I'll take whats I can gets.

Agamemnon2 wrote:For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.

Eh, actually, you know what? You're right. There ain't much difference between Russes and especially the Predator, so I'll retract my comments there on the Shadowsword kit (although some do look VERY similar, two in particular that use the short barrel).

BYE

I think Forge World is more or less out of the question. Maybe the odd release in between but for the most part they are working according to an actual plan! Namely churning out models to go with their books.

Now if only those fudpuckers would pick up the fugging phone or check their inbox for once they'd be held in higher esteem.

AlexCage wrote:What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.

It's certainly not in any way expected. Forge World has never really busied itself with picking up the main range's slack. At best, their releases have peripherally tied in with changes in the main range (IA3 came out a little before the Tau Empire codex).

Sure, Forge World loves IG, but there's no grounds to assume they're going to release anything not explicitly related to their own schedule (which includes finally wrapping up the Siege of Vraks). What I expect to see from them in the near future is Daemons, Khornate and Nurglish, and possibly one last Krieg unit or something to do with Daemonhunters. What we won't be seeing is them stepping up to make a Bane Wolf, Colossus or Mogul Kamir.

I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.

It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.

One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.

For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.

One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.

I bet (!!) that there won't be regular plastic kits for the Hydra and Medusa variants and we have to rely on FW to get those options.
I mean, in the space marine codex Gw reintroduced all these weapon options for the dreadnaught but didn't bother with an updated dreadnaught box at all. And that was for the space marines.
Do you really think Gw will sacrifice one of their precious wave spots for stuff like medusas? A tank that maybe two or three people will buy when they hit the shelf in plastic?

Nah...

But I agree that the wave release doesn't hit me as genius as some months ago. Until now, GW released just much, much stuff for the orks and squeezed out some ugly dark elf models. The Wave 2 of the space marines seems to be a bit off, too. Maybe for planetfall in autumn.

Greets
Schepp himself

It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.

I mean, there's the Griffon, then there's a slightly different Griffon that's AP3. Then there's a Griffon that's S10 with D3 barrage hits. Then there's the Basilisk. Then there's the Demolisher, and then a Demolisher with less armour but +12" of range. Then there's a big Flamer, or a big Flamer that's poison. Why even have a Eradicator Nova Cannon when it appears to do nothing anything else can't do, but better? And why have a Hydra when you have an Exterminator? I mean, it has greater range, and let's assume for a moment that it has two Hydra Autocannons (and therefore fires the same amount of shots)... why take it on an AV12 platform form you can take it on an AV14 platform? Will it have special rules vs Flyers/Skimmers? Will it ignore Skimmers Moving Fast 5+ save? Will it mean more in Planet Strike?

Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?

And the Deathstrike in 40K is still stupid. Sorry. It is. If anything should be Apoc, then the Deathstrike should be it.

And can we please please please please get a plastic Hydra kit (I love that model!).

BYE

On the plus side, we know whom to blame.

Robin Cruddace.

H.B.M.C. wrote:It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.
Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?

BYE

Who are you and what have you done with H.B.M.C.?

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I agree, though. Gw scares me a bit with the speed their long-term-plan pendulum swings from codex bland (Dark Angels) to codex variants within, what, two years? How many pages are there supposed to be to explain all the variants to little jervis? Or got this plan cancelled,too?

Little Jervis probably grew his hair long, got interested in girls and trashed all his models

Don't worry. I fully expect we'll get a nice 3-4 page Wargear Section that contains lots of nice drawings and diagrams of weapons... and lots of page references to other parts of the books for rules.

BYE

holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

deathstrike. If i can take three then so doing a guard army full of guys in white lab coats and black goggles.
they are just there to watch the bomb.

JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"

In the most polite manner possible:

Bite me.

Oh, so maybe that's what you'd prefer the new IG codex to do... (I keed I keed)

Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.

I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here).

My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work.

It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful.

BYE

We are commenting on a leaked pdf of the new IG reference sheet. GW has said NOTHING about IG releases so far. It's a bit premature to say they haven't said anything about the IG release schedule when they haven't really said much at all about the IG codex period. Plus we've seen models of some of the variants so I'm a bit confused how you seem to think they won't be released.

Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.

It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.

One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.

For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.

One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.

Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Enjoy your leaked pdf and just chill until we hear more.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

skkipper wrote:

JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

If your entire heavy support section can't down a minimum sized squad of Orks in a round, you've got problems...

Still more then a Pie plate usually took out.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

ok, name me 3 HS tanks that can cause that ammount of fire?

im willing to bet money on alot of guard players using them, and alot of ork and nid losses to guard

Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!

Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?

BYE

Dexy wrote:Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!

And a Pintle Heavy Stubber. That's 29 St5 and 3 St4 Shots a turn per tank.

I think the KGB was more Open than GW's Open day.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?

BYE

Welcome to playing orks and tyranids. Sometimes you just have to assume that a couple of straws and a dremmel will be your only option.


Especially when the whole thing is still months away anyway. You need to go outside, start a garden or something. Get some patience.

And a Pintle Heavy Stubber. That's 29 St5 and 3 St4 Shots a turn per tank.

fill HS with them for a impressive:

87 S5 shots and 9 S4 shots

so, whats that do to a unit of boyz?
and possibly biker nob problem solved?

Thats not really going to dent nob bikers. Not that IG will have a problem with them once they can start tossing out 5+ insta killing, FNP ignoring pie plates a turn.

Aside form hijacking some tanks and troops for my lost and the damned army way back when, I don't have a lot of experience playing guard. Against them sure, but I don't use the army.

However, this army list looks like they have the firepower bite they needed. I came from other strategy games before I got into 40k, and I always wondered why the "firepower" army was probably one of the worst at shooting stuff.

So, I can't really find anything wrong with this list. Guard players are one of the few types of players (orks as well) who had cheerfully (minimal whining) stuck with their god awful army through the horrible age of 4th edition. I feel they are being rewarded with a worthy codex.

Their troops still suck, their charging elements are still tame, but at least they got cheaper and their guns will actually cause some sort of damage on the battle field.

I think this is going to be a good codex for the game, and it will be nice to have the alleged kings of ranged combat/horrible CC be back in the game - fulfilling their intended role.

But who am I kidding, I bet rough riders and chimeras full of Ogryns with attached fist commisars will be all the rage.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?

BYE

An open day doesn't mean they are going to tell you what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. Hell, they still may not know what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. All I'm asking is you wait till May to get your knickers in a bunch. Hell, I may join you then!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

i know, but if you were taking 3 of these then pie plates are not about.

and im sure it would do more than a dent.

JD21290 wrote:i know, but if you were taking 3 of these then pie plates are not about.

and im sure it would do more than a dent.

80 shots
40 hits
20 wounds
10 saves from turbo boosting
5 FNP saves

5 Wounds

You won't even kill a single bike.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Little Jervis probably grew his hair long, got interested in girls and trashed all his models

It's amazing what a great little female body and a couple of beers ready to hand can do to a paint schedule.

Ozymandias wrote:An open day doesn't mean they are going to tell you what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. Hell, they still may not know what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. All I'm asking is you wait till May to get your knickers in a bunch. Hell, I may join you then!

Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling when he complains about not having specific models for Veterans, he has a point about the wall of silence regarding the new codex.

Given the extent to which GW is looking back to the 2nd Ed. codex and trying to shake up Guard, it's entirely possible that sponsons will be mandatory for Leman Russes. If so, I would like to know this sooner rather than later; I'm not going to buy or assemble anything without (at a minimum) the guarantee that the new model will still be a legal entry in the new codex. I just finished painting up three more 2nd Ed. style HW teams. Now I'm suddenly concerned that I'm going to have to re-base them.

It would be nice to know what the deal is; it's not going to hurt GW in the slightest to reveal some fundamental basics, and would build a lot of goodwill. Not to sound all cliched, but it would be one of those "win-win" scenarios that businesses are supposed to cultivate.

ShumaGorath wrote:Welcome to playing orks and tyranids. Sometimes you just have to assume that a couple of straws and a dremmel will be your only option.

What model in the Tyranid range isn't available?

ShumaGorath wrote:You need to go outside, start a garden or something. Get some patience.

You need to stop ending posts with personal insults.

BYE

Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?

Dave47 wrote:Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling...

You need to learn the definition of trolling my friend.

Dave47 wrote:Given the extent to which GW is looking back to the 2nd Ed. codex and trying to shake up Guard, it's entirely possible that sponsons will be mandatory for Leman Russes...

Oh God... I hadn't thought of that.

I've got... 11 Russes that don't have Sponsons, 4 of them for my Vanquishers, one of them for my Annihilator, and then 3 w/Hull HBs and 3 w/Hull LCs (yes, I'm OCD enough to have WYSIWYG models for each possible combination of Russ). Other than the fact that the Russ looks betting without Sponsons, it would be terrible if they change that.

I'm going to carry on thinking that Sponsons will be optional. Damn you Dave47 for putting that horrid thought in my head!!!

ph34r wrote:Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?

An excellent point.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dave47 wrote:Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling...

You need to learn the definition of trolling my friend.

I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.

But would you really be happy if GW released an official set of Hardened Veterans? Or would you just rant and rant about how you wanted your Veterans to match your troops, and this was just an obvious attempt by GW to charge you $30 for a set of five Imperial Guardsmen when you were perfectly capable of converting your own / using your old RT Guardsmen / using Necromunda miniatures / coming up with some other way to designate "veteran" status?

In my view, the line between playing devil's advocate and trolling is a fine one.

BrookM wrote:

AlexCage wrote:Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!

Straken has such a high save due to his bionic chest. Something to do with wrestling a Miral Landshark and losing.

Sorry, took me a while to dig out my Catachan Codex. Yeah, Straken's got a good save due to his bionics - it's also why he's got S6. But he never had a 3+ save before now. That's definitely new. I'm hoping that he'll get rules similar to those that let him count Catachan Devils as Troops. It'd be pretty sweet for an army he leads to get to use Hardened Vets as troops (particularly if they can take Valks as dedicated transports!)

Granted, I was really hoping for a Catachan special character with a rule titled "I Ain't Got Time To Bleed" which would give him FNP...

It's good to see guard getting a boost.

In other news, my CSM are scared.

I solved the vet issue easily myself.. regular newbie guardsmen just get armor and a gun, vets get backpacks and canteens and other doodads

Death By Monkeys wrote:It'd be pretty sweet for an army he leads to get to use Hardened Vets as troops (particularly if they can take Valks as dedicated transports!)

Granted, I was really hoping for a Catachan special character with a rule titled "I Ain't Got Time To Bleed" which would give him FNP...

yeah, the original action star governor would have been cool for a mini. as for straken, i hope he doesn't allow the elite junglefighters to take valks as that's totally against the fluff! bunnies died to make up the catachan fluff! in all seriousness, catachans are billed as the guys who can survive the deadliest jungle with just a dull knife and a single book of matches; getting dropped off by their mommy doesn't go with that.

Dave47 wrote:I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.

Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else?

Dave47 wrote:But would you really be happy if GW released an official set of Hardened Veterans? Or would you just rant and rant about how you wanted your Veterans to match your troops, and this was just an obvious attempt by GW to charge you $30 for a set of five Imperial Guardsmen when you were perfectly capable of converting your own / using your old RT Guardsmen / using Necromunda miniatures / coming up with some other way to designate "veteran" status?

Putting it that way, yeah, I wouldn't want it. But I think the Command Squad box will actually cover us here. But for the rest of stuff, the tanks, yeah, we do need to know if we're ever going to get those.

Dave47 wrote:In my view, the line between playing devil's advocate and trolling is a fine one.

Trolling would imply I post looking only for a reaction. Now I do post to gain a reaction, but that's only part of it.

BYE

Now I must take Sly Marbo, and have a Leman Russ Punisher with a "Punisher Skull" painted on the front follow him around.

These rumors are renewing my faith in GW.

22 tanks? Doth mine eyes deceive me?

God, what am I gonna use to model a Deathstrike? Rockets! With super-powered mutant gunners, yes, yes! *leaves rumbling his hands and mumbling ala Professor Farnsworth*

Durandal wrote:Now I must take Sly Marbo, and have a Leman Russ Punisher with a "Punisher Skull" painted on the front follow him around.

But Stallone wasn't in Predator...

What a nice day to be guard but now im disapointed... its like i opened my present before cristmas and killed half of the fun.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dave47 wrote:I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.

Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else?

See, I thought I was here to make up for all the cynicism in this place!

Since Toreador hasn't been seen in ages someone's gotta do it.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else?

HMBC can do it for us, like he always has!

Man, just when I think I "finally" have my Rogue Trader army figured out, GW does this.

ph34r wrote:Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?

Codex: CSM -- as powerful as it is -- is looking lamer all the time.

I have a feeling opinions here will shift away from boundless optimism once we start seeing points values. But I'll give GW credit -- I really expected something straightforward and bland a la the 3rd ed. IG codex Mk.1. Even if a lot of things aren't "optimal," it looks like it'll be a fun codex with enough decent options to allow some variety.

temprus wrote:HMBC can do it for us, like he always has!

On my life I will find HMBC one day, and he'll wish he'd never been misspelt!!!

temprus wrote:Man, just when I think I "finally" have my Rogue Trader army figured out, GW does this.

Isn't that always the way with GW games though? I mean I thought I was done buying Russes and Artillery...

BYE

I'm thinking of picking up a couple of these to built a Deathstrike or 2.


1/35 SOVIET SA-2 GUIDELINE MISSILE WITH LAUNCHER

Because I love Apocalypse and unlimited range.

HBMC: don't oyu have 2 more russes to round out your last company?

grizgrin wrote:HBMC: don't oyu have 2 more russes to round out your last company?

My Companies are rounded already. They look like this:

Main Company
Company Command Vanquisher w/LC
Squadron Command Vanquisher w/LC
Russ w/LC + 2HBs
Russ w/LC + 2HBs
Squadron Command Vanquisher w/LC
Russ w/LC + 2HBs
Russ w/LC + 2HBs
Squadron Command Vanquisher w/LC
Russ w/LC + 2HBs
Russ w/LC + 2HBs

Oddball Company
Company Command Annihilator w/LC
Squadron Command Exterminator w/3 HBs
Exterminator w/3 HBs
Exterminator w/3 HBs
Squadron Command Demolisher w/LC + 2MMs
Demolisher w/LC + 2PCs
Demolisher w/LC + 2PCs
Squadron Command Demolisher w/LC + 2MMs
Demolisher w/LC + 2PCs
Demolisher w/LC + 2PCs

Reserve Company
Company Command Executioner w/3 Plasma Cannons (he's cool... or hot I guess)
Squadron Command Russ w/LC
Russ w/LC
Russ w/LC
Squadron Command Russ w/HB
Russ w/HB
Russ w/HB
Squadron Command Russ w/3 HBs
Russ w/3 HBs
Russ w/3 HBs

Artillery Company
Company Command Basilisk w/Enclosed Top (it's the FW one)
Squadron Command Basilisk
Basilisk
Basilisk
Squadron Command Manticore
Manticore
Manticore
Squadron Command Bombard
Griffon
Griffon

Super Heavy Regiment
Regimental Command Shadow Sword [Waiting for Plastic Kit]
Company Command Baneblade
Baneblade
Baneblade
Company Command Hellhammer
Stormblade
[Something from the new kit when it's out]
Company Command Macharius w/Vanquisher Cannons
Macharius w/Battlecannons
Macharius w/VMB

And then somewhere in there there's 12 Chimeras, 3 Hellhounds and 20-something Sentinels.

I don't want nor need more tanks, but were I to get any of the new ones, I would have to get 10, as I cannot have an incomplete company.

BYE

Now THAT's the sort of problem I WISH I had!

Platuan4th wrote:I'm thinking of picking up a couple of these to built a Deathstrike or 2.


1/35 SOVIET SA-2 GUIDELINE MISSILE WITH LAUNCHER

Because I love Apocalypse and unlimited range.

Excellent idea! Perhaps even just using the missile and a Basilisk platform for the launcher, for tournament/ard boy use?


Also: I'm pretty sure that many tanks makes HBMC a Warmaster or Lord Solar at this point. I thought my five Russes was considerable...

HBMC, I count 31 russes and variants there. So you need to get 9 of the *new* russes! Problem solved!

I don't know how you count 31, unless you're counting the Bombard that is (it is a Russ Hull).

BYE

no Salamander?

Sadly no. I would've thought it'd make a great Command Squad transport if they'd given it a transpot capacity of 5 or 6.

BYE

Since when does Imperial technology get to catch up with Tau's? I say, that's a lot of ST 10 AP 1 I see in that "leaked" sheet. Next you'll be telling me they have skimmers too!

Oh wait...

Oh Salamanders
Why have you been forsaken?
Bite me Games Workshop.

Theyve always had st. 10 ap1. If you count forgeworld there is nothing new here really that is st10.

Also, I think the demolisher got nerfed. I couldve sworn it used to be ap1.

no, i remember when I bought a demolisher, back in 3rd edition,

my first tank ever

so excited

and it was ap2, i'm sure of it

Yup. AP2.

BYE

Well silly me, maybe I was thinking of the bombard.

"Oh Salamanders
Why have you been forsaken?
Bite me Games Workshop"

@ubermosher

i do beleive you're being sarcastic!
i'm seriously hurting here!

Samuel L wouldn't be happy either:

"there's too many M*****F****** Russ variants
in this M*****F****** reference sheet!"

"Since when does Imperial technology get to catch up with Tau's? I say, that's a lot of ST 10 AP 1 I see in that "leaked" sheet. Next you'll be telling me they have skimmers too!

Oh wait..."
Quote: synchronicity

Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.

kinda like the difrence in US and Soviet gear in the cold war. US allways made better stuff, but it wasnt neseceraly more powerfull. Soviets made some ridiculously powerfull stuff, but they were deathtraps that broke down or ate their crews( T-72 auto loader could mistake drivers for shells).

Just so you all know. The demolisher cannon is still AP 2. Look at the french pics. it is a typo.

As for the demolisher cannon... screw that. My bread and butter is going to be the excutioner. Heavy 3 plasma cannon...oh and what are those on the side of my leman russ...thats right more plasma cannons. 5 str 7 ap2 shots blasts...yes please...Assuming it is like the demolisher that is.

edit for typos

edit for the word blast. I really shouldnt be trying to post and do my job at the same time.

AlfredTheStrange wrote:Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.

Heresy! Since when is a ST 10 AP 1 Ordinance blast inefficient?

I kid. I'm glad to see a shootie army in an assaulty edition.

synchronicity wrote:

AlfredTheStrange wrote:Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.

Heresy! Since when is a ST 10 AP 1 Ordinance blast inefficient?

I kid. I'm glad to see a shootie army in an assaulty edition.

\

lol, it's inefficient because, if the tau made it, it'd be mounted on a broadside and have two shots instead of trucked on a tank and one shot.

Plasma cannons on tanks sound good assuming that you don't have to roll for Gets Hot. I don't have my rulebook handy, does the Ordnance rule clarify this?

I really don't know where to begin here. I had vowed to sell off my guard army in a previous post if they took away the variation that made the IG the IG. Specifically things like Drug-Addicted parachuting conscript legions with close combat weapons have always been what made me happy with the IG codex. Getting blown off the table on the other hand... 50% win/loss aside I like the old codex. This new special character Bull-Schwacky makes me kind of queezy and I feel the only cure may be baby punching. My SC disgust aside there are more tanks than you can shake a power fist at on this list!!! My only complaint with these tanks is fairly invalid but I'll lodge it anyways: I ordered 2 executioner turrets from forgeworld a couple weeks back because in IA3 they are a 54" 7/2 large blast! AP2 w/ 54" Range!!! it's nice that I'll have the new turret when the new book comes out but It is getting nerfed at the same time. And I wanted a salamander command vehicle cuz it's a vehicle that counts as your HQ and that is frakkin cool.

I don't think Executioners were ever Large Blast. I know because I've always regarded the Executioner as completely pointless . It costs more than a Russ yet has less effect - it was a typical Forge World unit: Overcosted and underpowered.

This Executioner is better. Way better. Almost 3 times better! And my Executioner, with the Sponson Plasma Cannons and Hull Plasma Cannon is now even better than it was beore!!!

BYE

The executioner was never a Large Blast cannon.

Basically what they are doing is cutting it's range to 36" and tripling it's RoF.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't think Executioners were ever Large Blast. I know because I've always regarded the Executioner as completely pointless . It costs more than a Russ yet has less effect - it was a typical Forge World unit: Overcosted and underpowered.

This Executioner is better. Way better. Almost 3 times better! And my Executioner, with the Sponson Plasma Cannons and Hull Plasma Cannon is now even better than it was beore!!!

BYE

I had to read that twice... you said HULL plasma cannon? did you scratch that or is it available somewhere?

Back when GW Mail Order had a point, and their bitz service was up and running, I ordered an extra Demolisher Cannon Sponson Plasma Cannon bit (I had got 13 Russes from BWB, but was turning most of them into Exterminators and Demolishers, hence the bitz orders).

I was planning on getting an Executioner later down the line, and knew I wanted to do an 'All Plasma' tank for my Company Commander (it's the Tallarn FW Tank Commander guy with the speaker and the laspistol). So I took all three plasma bitz that I had spare, put them into a single kit and made the ultra Plasma Tank of Ultimate Plasma-y Doom.

It's not in any way legal, but it's cool.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:There needs to be a line drawn, or a mission statement that says either "We will release kits for everything" or "We won't be doing kits for all entries". Either statement is a win for the players, because it at least gives us something to work with.

BYE

Wasn't the latter option the one Jervis announced just before Dark Angels? Glad they essentially dumped that...

As for the rest, there is a buttload of redundancy in the options, I agree. Points costs will become a deciding factor in the race to see if any of this is broken.

OHHHHHHH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




goo IN MY PANTS!!!!


lol at censored word.

H.B.M.C. wrote: So I took all three plasma bitz that I had spare, put them into a single kit and made the ultra Plasma Tank of Ultimate Plasma-y Doom.

It's not in any way legal, but it's cool.
BYE

When it comes to apoc anything goes really.

One thing I was considering, I really don't think the KP issue will be addressed at all. Considering the Codex is already being translated into French/Spanish, the Codex must have been finished around the end of last year. This means the writing of the Codex probably started around the launch of 5th edition, and I doubt the complaints of the KP system to the design staff would have got there in time.

aka_mythos wrote:

I've never understood the fascination of taking one of these preconceived power gamer lists and building your army around it. You might as well buy a boxed army, because you're cheating yourself out of the satisfaction of winning something entirely on your own. On the flip side, I've seen people who were so poor at playing no power gamer list could help them.

As the guy who has brought you most of the true power builds over the years, I feel mostly to blame for what has become. Little did I know that my creations (LaTD Daemon Spam, Assault Cannon Spam, Schaeffers Last Chancers/ Deep Strike Spam, Nob Bikers, Battlewagon Spam, Salamanders..... to name a few ) would spread so far and wide (you dirty copiers) that they would be affecting other flgs.

So.. with that being said, I will back cracking the IG Codex..... so far, from what I've read, none of you have figured out what appears to me to be the best way to do a guard army.... keep trying. When the points costs come out, we'll see who can beat me to it

Anung Un Rama wrote:I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*

Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?

I'm pretty sure "Penal Legionaires" are arbites.

Penal Legionaires will be Penal Legionaires. Guardsmen sentenced to serve in a Penal Legion for their crimes.

BYE

Penal legionnaires have 5+ save. Arbites have carapace.
They have curiously high leadership for a convict formation. There are a few ways I can think of to justify that, but it's odd that the basic legionnaire would have Ld8 when nearly every other squad reserves that for their sergeant.

The astropath has a really low Ld for a psyker.

Hmmm... then what is "Penal Guard"?

Hmmm.. Looking at the page reference, it's prolly the legionaires sergeant..... who knows, the "Penal Guard" could be the Arbite assigned to watching the legionaires

Um, guys? If a guardsmen is 4 pts, how cheap is a conscript? If weight of fire wins 40k a model with rapid fire for under 4 points seems pretty nasty. I'm going to go buy another 5 boxes of guardsmen at my flgs tomorrow... and some morale officers!

Narlix wrote:
Fast skimmer or not, it would still be over priced at 90 points, The storm Troopers even with plasma agianst an meq your talking 4 to 5 wounds

Are we still talking about the usefulness of the Valkyrie or are we discussing stormtroopers now? What do I care about points killed?!? Points are meaningless. What matters is which elements I can neutralize. With those shots - you're looking at 4 to 5 wounds without plasma, without the Valkyrie, which you shouldn't if you figure in its points cost -, and that mobility, MEQ's aren't safe anywhere on the board. You can potentially get them when they're not in cover, you can evade them if you must, you can contest objectives or get in some side/rear shots much more easily. 4-5 wounds can result in the special or heavy weapon or powerfist dying. Just chose your targets carefully.

10 Marines rapid firing bolters result in exactly the same number of stormtrooper casualties. This is an unprecedented level of effectiveness for us. A 90 point Valkyrie will be golden, and a 130 point Valkyrie will have ample firepower to support the troopers I bet.

For the same points you are spending on a valk and full stormie squad you can get two squads of regular IG guys with heavy bolter, plasma gun and 2 chimeras with heavy stubbers.

If you say so. Buy what you like. I'm sure static gunline has something going for it as well.

This is why i think the Valk is going to have to be in the 50 to 60 point range to be useable.

Why not for free? To be frank, your notion is nonsense. A fast skimmer that is better armed and armoured than a Chimera cannot cost the same. You want to have your cake and eat it.

I'm afraid I never do cross-codex comparisons. They're inevitably not telling the whole story.

Kungfuhustler wrote:My only complaint with these tanks is fairly invalid but I'll lodge it anyways: I ordered 2 executioner turrets from forgeworld a couple weeks back because in IA3 they are a 54" 7/2 large blast! AP2 w/ 54" Range!!! it's nice that I'll have the new turret when the new book comes out but It is getting nerfed at the same time.

It is not. H.M.B.C. has the right of it, it never used a large blast but a small one. The new Executioner will have three times the firepower from its main weapon.

Angron wrote:Hmmm... then what is "Penal Guard"?

Hmmm.. Looking at the page reference, it's prolly the legionaires sergeant..... who knows, the "Penal Guard" could be the Arbite assigned to watching the legionaires

Indeed, it is the overseer, the guy guarding the penal legionaries.

Kungfuhustler wrote:Um, guys? If a guardsmen is 4 pts, how cheap is a conscript? If weight of fire wins 40k a model with rapid fire for under 4 points seems pretty nasty. I'm going to go buy another 5 boxes of guardsmen at my flgs tomorrow... and some morale officers!

Well, if Conscripts come in nice big 20-man chunks, they might go for 45-55 points + weapons? Still don't seem very useful. Unless, of course, we get the Commissar with those heavy bolters The summary sheet isn't quite enough to dispel that particular rumor.

On the Garde Penal (A2) vs the Legionnaire Penal I think (A1) I think the A1 guy might be the sgt. Garde is the word for the standard guardsman, and I think a Legionnaire is a higher rank in French.

So the normal guys are wacked out on combat drugs the sergant has 1 attack.

Or I'm just wrong.

You are wrong. Those are simply penal troopers. 'Legionnaire' is not a rank.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:On the Garde Penal (A2) vs the Legionnaire Penal I think (A1) I think the A1 guy might be the sgt. Garde is the word for the standard guardsman, and I think a Legionnaire is a higher rank in French.

So the normal guys are wacked out on combat drugs the sergant has 1 attack.

Or I'm just wrong.

Legionnaire is the entry-level rank in the French Foreign Legion, AFAIK, whereas the rest of the French army has ranks like Soldat, Caporal and so on.

Looking at the stat lines, it makes sense that Légionnaire Pénal are the grunts, the convicts sent to earn the Emperors forgiveness by dying in his name, whilst the Garde Pénal is the man leading them into battle.

Or I'm wrong myself.

Or we're all wrong. Hell, this whole leaked page is so near identical to the Spanish rumor it could be a red herring. I hope it isn't, I really do hope the poster of the original Spanish rumor saw this page and that's why they're identical. I like this leak, and hope it's legit, but I'm keeping my doubts until I have my own copy of the codex, in English, in my grubby mitts. I'm just cynical like that.

This leak makes total sense, it's from a GW site for luvapete. Unless GW is making deliberate misinformation in French why else would it exist?

I like the theory that these leaks are coming from the translators. I can imagine that GW-UK holds things tightly but the foreign offices make mistakes.

Yeah, and a hoax of this complexity would take so much effort that it's more unlikely than this being a genuine slip-up.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:This leak makes total sense, it's from a GW site for luvapete. Unless GW is making deliberate misinformation in French why else would it exist?

I like the theory that these leaks are coming from the translators. I can imagine that GW-UK holds things tightly but the foreign offices make mistakes.

I know it makes sense, and I know the only explanation other than it being legit is deliberate misinformation. I know GW is probably not involved in that sort of thing, leaving it to those with something more important to hide than a few stat lines. Part of me, however, likes a good conspiracy, no matter how outlandish and how little I believe it myself. It wouldn't take too much for individual within GW to copy the rumor in a summary page template, add some stats and leak it.

It is, however, unlikely, but I take all leaks with a grain of salt, because things can still change. Although admittedly at a touch over ten weeks from the launch, I'd expect the rules to be set in stone, and the finished codex to be at least going through the latter stages of proofing and translation, if not already printed and sitting in a warehouse.

It's outlandish and incredibly unlikely that this is a ruse, I accept that, and I also say it's all but certain that this page will be in the French Codex, and every other version will see it translated into the respective languages, but I get bored and sometimes my pessimistic mind goes into overdrive and sometimes a stupid idea is born.

(Edited for spelling)

Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.

It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.

One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.

For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.

One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.

Just convert it anyway. Whats the problem-you still have the minis when the GW version comes out. If GW's is better and you want to spend the cash go for it. If not you have a unique conversion to call your own. Plus often with conversions they can be done in such a manner that you a model wil have multipler uses.

Convert different turrent for your chimera. Voila you now have all the choices you want. Got a burr up your butt to have twin linked heavy bolters today-you're ready to party. Autocannons in a funk, ring them up to.

Relying on GW is like relying on the government. Never a good thing.

On converting, you're better off than Chaos players were with the defiler when the rules were out but no model. they had to build with very little idea what it would look like or how big it should be. I saw everything from zoids to dreads with battlecannons.

Mine was a russ on legs and wasn't too far off but is still a bit small.

A russ with a new gun is still a russ.

And I agree, a simple 'The Leman Russ Deep Hurter is due in early 2010' would make people a lot happier.

So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.

It looks great! Let me jump on the bandwagon of people asking for an INKLING of when the kits will be due. I am not converting and not buying FW stuff. So unless GW makes the kit, I guess I'll just be boned. Hopefully they have some idea of when those kits will be out.

olympia wrote:So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.

From the point of view of somebody only vaguely interested in gaming with the new models, they look great.

sA

I wonder if the penal legionnaires will have the explosive neck collars like in the old days? I assume Human Bombs aren't back, though.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Yeah, and a hoax of this complexity would take so much effort that it's more unlikely than this being a genuine slip-up.

That's what they said about Roswell!!

olympia wrote:So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.

I'm happiest because of the new plastic Command Squad box, plus the fact that Ogryns got some love, as well as the humble Medusa. The new tanks are a bonus. A pretty neat bonus.

[quote=Lord Solar Plexus

If you say so. Buy what you like. I'm sure static gunline has something going for it as well.


Why not for free? To be frank, your notion is nonsense. A fast skimmer that is better armed and armoured than a Chimera cannot cost the same. You want to have your cake and eat it.

.

Calling 2 Guard squads with Chimeras a static gun line, is like calling 2 units of firewarriors with devilfish a static gun line. A static gun Line would be 4 Squads of IG grunts The chimeras means they can move and most likely will move.

Yes the valk is a fast skimmer, that means it can move 12 inchs unload, and shoot 1 primary weapon and all def weapons, or it can move 24 inchs and do nothing. It comes armed with 1 multi laser and two heavy bolters , all 3 are primary weapons. It could move 6 inchs at shoot all 3 but then it won't get the 4+ cover save, the main reason fast skimmers are nice. So the net effect is that the Valk is not better armed than a chimera, at best it is equal, but since I can give the chimera a heavy stubber the chimera is better armed for in game effect. The effective weapon load out on the valk is really just the multi-laser ( unless it has special rules or the hell strikes ect, but those would really p-off some eldar players i think)

The valk has 12 12 10 armor , the chimera has 12 10 10 , front armor is the same , side armor on the valk is better, but since its a much larger model and a skimmer its much easier to get line of sight on . While the chimera does have worse side armor , most shots will be agianst its front armor , the chimera is much easier to get hull down and hide, its also a tank ( so it can ram haha, tank shock haha, well ok nothing to great there) , but it comes with a smoke and a spot light( you know not great but every once in a while). The main weapon on the chimera is also turret mounted whitch means it can always leave its 12 armor to the most threat. The valk on the other hand is all hull mounted so it has to turn. I look at both and they look very even in net effect.

Like I said in my earlier post put the rocket pods on it, and for 90 or so points I think it would makes a good fast attack option with 2 5 inch str4 blasts and 3 multi laser shots.