4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
The full reference sheet from the new codex has gone online at the French GW website (go to 'Articles' ->'Jouer' ->'Feuilles de references Garde Imperiale', and on Warseer (IG rumours thread) as well.
Let's just say it is amazing stuff...now go and look for yourselves!
9158
Post by: Hollismason
Was expecting a rick roll now sorely disapointed
6885
Post by: Red_Lives
Now if only i could read french...
6946
Post by: Dexy
The spanish rumours were right, egads!
6885
Post by: Red_Lives
and whats a
Leman Russ Punisher?
9158
Post by: Hollismason
Its the rumoured Varian of Leman Russ with the huge feth off gun that has 20 shots at STR5 no AP according to that.
Hahahaha
I just noticed that the deathstrike missiles are real. That's awesome. So is the Collosus.
Did the last imperial codex have demolition charges I cant remember Im not familiar with the old codex.
4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
Yep, good stuff. AP3 Hellguns, Captain Chenkov, T5 Ogryns, side armour 13 for Russes...mon dieu!
6946
Post by: Dexy
Ogryn 3 Wounds, Toughness 5 with a STR 5 Assault 3 gun, wo.
9158
Post by: Hollismason
Looks like penal troops are
WS 3 BS 3 A 2
Thought that was pretty interesting.
It looks like we get two levels of psyker along with the astropath.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Heavy weapons teams appear to be single 2-wound models. This might cause some people inconvenience.
4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
Well, the link to the French website went dead just as word was spreading across the interweb. Did they leak it on purpose or was it an accident?
Do I even care?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
4Chan should have it by now.
I'll check.
BYE
118
Post by: Schepp himself
How could you accidently leak something like that anyway. Any chance to still get it? Or is it just a confirmation of the already mentioned rumors?
Greets
Schepp himself
EDIT: wait and shine, Mr. himself, wait and shine...
8303
Post by: sexiest_hero
Last stop on the ork power train. All aboard the IG bandwagon. Woot woot! This is ideed a great day!
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Wow that's a lot of tanks...
Bane Wolf
Basilisk
Chimera
Colossus
Deathstrike (!!!)
Devil Dog
Griffon
Hellhound
Hydra
Russ (AV14/13/10)
Demolisher (AV14/13/11)
Eradicator (as Russ)
Executioner (as Demolisher)
Exterminator (as Russ)
Punisher (as Demolisher)
Vanquisher (as Russ)
Manticore
Medusa
Valk (12/12/10)
Vendetta (12/12/10)
Recon Sentinel as as we have now, and the other one is AV12 on the front!!!
The 'Storm Eagle Rockets' (I'm guessing Manticore) are S10 AP4 Ordnance D3/Barrage/Large Blast! The Collosus and the Griffon are the same other than range and AP (Griffon is AP4, Col is AP3). They have special rules not presented there.
Deatkstrike Launcher is range 12-Unlimited, 1D3+3" Explosion, S10 AP1.
Medusa is Range 36 S10 AP2 Ord 1/Large Blast. Doesn't appear to have indirect, making it a weaker Demolisher.
Ripper Gun at S5 AP- Assault 3.
Other cool things:
Captain Al'rahem is back.
Captain Chenkov is back.
Nork is back (T5 base!)
Iron Hand Straken is back.
Sly Marbo is back.
Moghol Kamir is back (for those who don't remember, he's an Atillan Rough Rider special character - so the Atillans Rough Rider models might never go away)
Creed & Kell, obviously, still there.
Yarrick as well - and Yarrick is Toughness 4 again! PRAISE BE TO THE EMPEROR! Yarrick-Lite is no more!!!
Arty Sergeant Harker (no idea)
Sanctioned Psykers & Primaris Psykers are there. Primaris is majorly buffed compared to the Sanctioned.
Commissars still have gakky stats.
Ogryn are T5 base! YAY!
Vets are Ld7... ok...
Conscripts are still there!
Exterminator is Heavy 4/TL
Hydra is just Heavy 2... which is really dumb... but Range 72.
Punisher really is Heavy 20
Eradicator has a Nova Cannon (now the third one in Cannon, and completely different to all the others) 36 S6 AP4 Large Blast hits on BS and has some special rules.
Executioner is Heavy 3 (so I guess it does exist after all Shummy)
Something called 'Fusil radiant Laser' is S3 AP3 Rapid Fire. That'll be the Hellgun
Grenade Launcher is still a hunk'o'junk.
BYE
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
On the bright side people, we're not going to see any of these new tank type for a year, if ever, so our wallets are safe.
BYE
131
Post by: malfred
Red_Lives wrote:and whats a
Leman Russ Punisher?
En francais, Le Russ Leman de punir.
Actually, that's probably horribly wrong
5119
Post by: Teh_K42
Well I'm glad that AV 14 front armor for Russes is set in stone.
I know nothing of french language but it does look the humble mortar (I'm looking at the mortier) is now a barrage weapon. Reduced to AP6 from AP5, but still much better overall I think.
I'm not going to start proclaiming the might of mankind until I have the codex, but I am looking forward to May.
221
Post by: Frazzled
AP 3 stormtroopers? Commence MEQ screaming. Lance missiles, Griffons, conscripts, penal troops, plsma cannons, executioners, exterminators, Vendettas (WTF? sounds cool whatever it is). Gentlemen, this can't be right, there's too much win here. A thousand guard players are going to have a heart attack.
I can hear my Valhallans whispering to me...
7375
Post by: BrookM
Oh f-
I just got kicked for dancing around the room like a little school girl.
Damn this is exciting.
4062
Post by: TheSecretSquig
 Someone at GW French HQ threatened to go on Strike if they were now allowed to post this !  (You, know, when the French go on Strike, they are still on Full Pay? - French laws state that you have a right to strike, so when you strike, you still get fully paid!)
Anyway - I'm not 100% convinced. Its nice and all, but I would have thought that some of the more specialist / larger units like the Deathstrike or Manticore would have been left out, and gone in a new Appoc supplement. GW stated that larger stuff was to be held for Appoc, so me thinks some of these should have been in it.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Teh_K42 wrote:I know nothing of french language but it does look the humble mortar (I'm looking at the mortier) is now a barrage weapon. Reduced to AP6 from AP5, but still much better overall I think.
The mortar was already S4 Ap6 barrage. Like most other existing weapons it seems to be staying exactly the same.
The summary has page numbers on it. Apparently the weapons section runs from page 68 to 70. Notable outliers include the hellweapons, ripper guns, and vehicle weapons. Stormtroopers and that 18" S3 Ap3 rapid fire gun are on the same page, meaning they most likely really are hellguns.
All Hellhound variants and their weapons are on page 50. The rumor about the 2+poison Ap3 template tank is true, as is the melta blast hound.
Hydra Autocannon is listed as heavy 2. This ordinarily would not make sense, but perhaps the tank is equipped with more than one. This would hurt its mobile firepower in comparison to the Executioner while still giving it some cheap long range punch while stationary and some staying power against weapon destroyed results. That is admittedly speculation.
Multiple rocket launcher and hellfury missile are on the same page as the hellstrike missile and the valkyrie.
Bunker buster shell is on the same page as earthshaker cannon and medusa siege cannon. Apparently the Basilisk and Medusa are on one page and their weapons are explained on the opposite.
Storm eagle rockets are on same page as Manticore, and have the previously rumored stats.
4412
Post by: George Spiggott
The Eradicator seems to be the new name for the Conqueror but with a large blast.
Shotguns are Str 3 (as before).
Stormbolters are still there (availability unknown).
Ogryns have lost a point of Ld.
There's a sniper pistol in there (Pistolet Ecorcheur).
Veteran Sergeants are BS 4.
Exterminator is Heavy 4 (jumeles?)
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Twin-Linked.
BYE
7375
Post by: BrookM
The sniper pistol is probably the new sidearm of John Rambo.
5832
Post by: jamessearle0
*smashes through wall*
OH YEAH!!
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
I love what I see so far!!
I just really wish I knew what the point value for the Valkyrie is as well as the Valkyrie Gunship the Vendetta!! I had been converting a small guard force a while ago, but I put it on hold because I was hoping for Plastic Valkyries, now I have 25 guys waiting for there ride to arrive =D
I am a bit of a noob when it comes to Ogryns, are they decent now?? Would they be worth fielding?? I really want to do a Storm Troop Airborne Army, as well as a Catachan/Ogryn tank heavy army...??
Oh has there been any word on point reductions for Storm troopers??
Thanks,
Chappy P!
PS: Again sorry for being a noob, but who was Straken in the earlier guard codex (2nd edition??)
7375
Post by: BrookM
Chaplain Pallantide wrote:I love what I see so far!!
I just really wish I knew what the point value for the Valkyrie is as well as the Valkyrie Gunship the Vendetta!! I had been converting a small guard force a while ago, but I put it on hold because I was hoping for Plastic Valkyries, now I have 25 guys waiting for there ride to arrive =D
I am a bit of a noob when it comes to Ogryns, are they decent now?? Would they be worth fielding?? I really want to do a Storm Troop Airborne Army, as well as a Catachan/Ogryn tank heavy army...??
Oh has there been any word on point reductions for Storm troopers??
Thanks,
Chappy P!
PS: Again sorry for being a noob, but who was Straken in the earlier guard codex (2nd edition??)
A really hard Catachan with a bionic chest, shotgun and plasma pistol.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
More page number prognostication:
Advisors are on page 31. These include the astropath, bodyguard, artillery officer, and fleet officer. The next two pages may also be advisors, including commissars, commissar lords, and primaris psykers.
Troops are on 36. Elites start at page 40, and include something called penal legionnaires.
There is something weird going on on page 47. It has a Mentor and a sanctioned psyker.
Everyone from page 57 on up is a special character.
"Veteran sergeant" is in the hardened veterans entry. Guardsmen would appear to use the "Sergeant" located in their own entry, with the same stats as the current veteran sergeant.
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
@BrookM: Thanks now I remember the model!!
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I have no cleaned the urine off, and can say WOW!! I am going to have so many damn tanks... *cries tears of joy*
I really want to know what sort of special rules each special character provides. Will the new RRs be Attilan remakes? If they look super hot, i don't even think I'd mind.
They had BETTER have the rule about using any special character in any army (a la the C:SM) though. This bok is gonna be so freaking awesome! And STs get AP3! Die MEQs!
I just can't stop bouncing in my seat. I need all of these models, and I need them now. Is that so much to ask? I don't even know where I'm going to keep all the tanks I'm going to get.
6500
Post by: MinMax
T 4 Yarrick! Yes!
Huh. Artillery Sergeant Harker is Strength 4. I wonder if that's a misprint.
Commissar Lords look pretty nice. WS BS 5, and 3 Wounds. They're probably going to be overpriced, though.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Don't think anyone mentioned, but the Executuoner, Punisher, and Demolisher all have rear armor 11, instead of 10 like the rest of the LRMBTs. Maybe the Rear armor 10 come in squads and 11 do not? Just a thought. Would LOVE some Vanquisher Squads. Or exterminator Squads.
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
Good Lord, GW really really wants the meta-game to go towards horde armies don't they? Between this and the Supa Dupa buff of Orks, MEQ's are going to join the chasing pack.
123
Post by: Alpharius
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Good Lord, GW really really wants the meta-game to go towards horde armies don't they? Between this and the Supa Dupa buff of Orks, MEQ's are going to join the chasing pack.
Weren't they pretty much already doing this?
For the MEQ hate, are they really ever 'top tier'?
Well, maybe only in the sense that they're always first out of the gate, but after that...
And I really hope that the new Rough Riders are NOT Atillan-style, but hopefully Cadian.
1748
Post by: Grandmaster
It all looks very good. I can't wait to tweek my guard to the new rules.
I just ordered the landing pad from FW so my new Valk can land in style
978
Post by: Shattered Soul
Though normally, I might go as far to say I hate the French... Emperor be praised! May they be spared for this sacred leak. :bows head in humble devotion the Emperor:
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Alpharius wrote:chaplaingrabthar wrote:Good Lord, GW really really wants the meta-game to go towards horde armies don't they? Between this and the Supa Dupa buff of Orks, MEQ's are going to join the chasing pack.
Weren't they pretty much already doing this?
For the MEQ hate, are they really ever 'top tier'?
Well, maybe only in the sense that they're always first out of the gate, but after that...
And I really hope that the new Rough Riders are NOT Atillan-style, but hopefully Cadian.
Honestly though, does it really matter as long as they look bad-ass? I agree, Cadian all the way, but I don't give a damn so long as they're as cool as the recent Chaos Knights for WHFB.
273
Post by: Foda_Bett
I wonder where Gaunt went.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Aussi. ou est le Prete?
(Also, where is the Priest?)
I guess no priests in this book.
EDIT: Forget it, I found him. He's actually AFTER the Techpriest. Does this mean Tech-Priests are now advisors?
2580
Post by: Mithrax
You know, when I reported a rumour around summer last year, that there was going to be 22 "tanks" in the new codex, I was somewhat mocked because of how foolish that would be, etc.
I told you so.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Scottywan82 wrote:Aussi. ou est le Prete?
(Also, where is the Priest?)
I guess no priests in this book.
Pretre du Ministorum, page 35. Missed that on the first pass, sorry.
4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
There's also an SC called Lukas Bastonne, supposedly an ST chara.
The Executioner is Heavy 3 blast.
The sniper pistol is supposedly Sly Marbo's side arm.
There is only a Platoon commander and a Company commander, not three officer types.
Either officers or Psykers (or any character?) get a bodyguard with WS and BS 4.
Officers have -1 Ini.
6500
Post by: MinMax
Scottywan82 wrote:Aussi. ou est le Prete?
(Also, where is the Priest?)
I guess no priests in this book.
It's actually just below Ogryn. Prêtre du Ministorum.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I think we must be missing something key about this book. Rough Riders appear to be before Storm Troopers, but after Ogryns, Penal Troopers, and Veterans.
Valkyries and Vendettas are the last entries before the special character sections.
Hellhounds and the variants are after the LRMBT, but before the Valk/Vendetta.
Are the Elite, FA, and HS sections split up? Are they split up to accomodate being attached to platoons? Do they seperate vehicles from infantry/cavalry? These questions prey on my mind.
7375
Post by: BrookM
I see all Russ tanks are lumped together into a single article.
Bull.
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
Damnit! I was so looking forward to commisar Cain
168
Post by: foil7102
Oh my god, I think I need a new pair of pants..... Unreal. However it did confirm the fact that the only hell hound varient worth taking now is the chemical canon one. If the reduced range on the infurno canon is true that you are looking at tanks that will only get to shoot once per game. The only one in my mind that will be able to make its points back with one shot is the chemical one. Drive foward, shoot, take a PF to the tail pipe and explode.
518
Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Wow guys, thanks!
If you can't see I put a JPG in the gallery
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/20411-2009%20IG%20reference%20sheet%20%28French%29.html
Things I note:
No Salamander :(
Servitors are now BS3 :(
Garde Penal are A3 but Legionaire Penal are A1? Is one the sergent?
What's a Mentor?
Sly Marbo is I5 with 4 attacks!!
Technaugure is such a cooler name than Enginseer
No sign that the Valkyrie is open-topped but then again none of the vehicles on this list say open-topped.
The French for flamer template seems to be Souffle, which is awesome.
Oh and the Large Blast Template is the Grande Explosion, which is what should have been called in the first place!
In all, quite happy. Back to making Storm Troopers!
7375
Post by: BrookM
Inferno cannon is template only according to the sheet. It has a * though, so it could be anything.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Good Lord, GW really really wants the meta-game to go towards horde armies don't they? Between this and the Supa Dupa buff of Orks, MEQ's are going to join the chasing pack.
And people still claim a 15pts Marine is too good. Yeah, sure.
In other news, anti horde is the new anti meq and meq's will be the new horde. Or something like that...
7375
Post by: BrookM
Crap, Jarran Kell has gone down in WS and BS, the only power house remaining is Yarrick. Damn shame.
463
Post by: CaptKaruthors
Dude. This is fething awesome. Although having ALL characters Initiative 3 is dumb.
Capt K
1228
Post by: redstripe
Wow, that's just all I can say, wow.
This is fantastic. I'd love to see some point costs, though, so I can start planning on which additional vehicles I need to buy.
Hopefully we won't be disappointed by how advisers work.
EDIT: AP 3 Hellguns make me laugh.
8645
Post by: Lord Solaar
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
No Salamander :(
But there is something called a Devil Dog, could this just be the french name for Salamander? (or just wishful thinking?)
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Hardened veterans, Penal legion, Ogryn, Ratlings, Rough riders, Sentinel, Stormtroopers. With the exception of the penal legion, whose actual unit name is unknown, that's simple alphabetical order. The codex seems to be set up HQ, advisors, troops, other units, vehicles, special characters. Compared to certain other recent codexes that's a remarkably logical layout.
Speculating about page 47, the Mentor appears to be the leader of a squad of sanctioned psykers available as an elites choice.
Don't know how significant this is, but the Valkyrie is listed among the vehicles, not in among the troops or other units like the dedicated transport Chimera.
5022
Post by: livingregret
Good thing that Spanish codex was all wish listing right? Hardie har har.....seriously though it's good to see that most of it was true and get to see all the stats too.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Foda_Bett wrote:I wonder where Gaunt went.
I'm guessing they just want you to use the Commissar Lord for him.
Lord Solar Plexus wrote:
Either officers or Psykers (or any character?) get a bodyguard with WS and BS 4.
I'm betting the body guards are what you get if you don't take the Fleet Officer, Astropath, or Master of the Watch (Artillery). They probably wanted a trade off to make you at least think whether you want to take all three or not.
Scottywan82 wrote:I think we must be missing something key about this book. Rough Riders appear to be before Storm Troopers, but after Ogryns, Penal Troopers, and Veterans.
Valkyries and Vendettas are the last entries before the special character sections.
Hellhounds and the variants are after the LRMBT, but before the Valk/Vendetta.
Are the Elite, FA, and HS sections split up? Are they split up to accomodate being attached to platoons? Do they seperate vehicles from infantry/cavalry? These questions prey on my mind.
The page references are probably for the unit descriptions and not the unit stat/cost section and thus aren't necessarily organized by FOC.
9504
Post by: sonofruss
Sweet my wallet is going to hate me. H.B.M.C.s wallet and storage area are going to hate him hehe
6210
Post by: Le Grognard
Good thing I don't have a job, because I'd be sitting in my own filth at the moment.
Kid: Souffle is awesome. For our non French-speakers, it translates to Blow; so it's saying to use the Breath template. So your templates are: Breath, Explosion and Big Explosion.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
aka_mythos: Ah, good point.
I'm also way interested to see some points costs. How many STs in Valks can I cram into this army? And can we really get STs as members of a command squad instead of guardsmen? Can those STs be upgraded as normal to medics, standard bearers, etc? These are important questions.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Lord Solaar wrote:Kid_Kyoto wrote:
No Salamander :(
But there is something called a Devil Dog, could this just be the french name for Salamander? (or just wishful thinking?)
Salamandre. Devil Dog is a Hellhound variant.
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
I'm looking forwards to this as it means more Guard players, which in turn means more varieties of army in my FLGS (assuming I find a good one soon)
666
Post by: Necros
I always thought a Souffle was some kinda cake. I want a cake template!
This stuff all looks awesome. I just ordered a 3rd FW hellhound, I wonder if I'll have to convert my squadron to those chemical tanks instead?
There's so much variety.. and it all seems great..
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I want to SEE some of these new models. We've seen a conversion for the punisher, but what about the rest of them?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Scottywan82 wrote:
I'm also way interested to see some points costs. How many STs in Valks can I cram into this army? And can we really get STs as members of a command squad instead of guardsmen? Can those STs be upgraded as normal to medics, standard bearers, etc? These are important questions.
Well there is suppose to be a way to take ST as troops, some speculate that is who Lukas Bastionne is. Irregardless that makes 9 squads and a command squad which should be able to take Valks, assuming the troop choice doesn't lose the ability (unlikely as GW wants to sell alot of Valks). We also don't know if the Vendetta fills a FOC or not. It maybe possible to take 10 Valkaries and then 3 Vendettas as (heavy? or fast?).
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
The rumors seem to suggest that Vendetta's are a FA choice.
I too am wondering how many Valkyries could fit into 1500pts??
I am going to assume they will be around 85 points w/out weapons, comparable to the devil fish, unlike their current point value in IA of around 140pts plus weapons !!
I think that Vendetta's will start at a higher point value and w/weapons I see then skimming over the 100pt mark, my guess will be around 125? Again Vultures start at 100pts and go up from there.
Chappy P!
11118
Post by: Thimn
Wow that is upsetting that Gaunt isn't in the new book. I was hoping he would give special rules for making a Tanith army. I'm going to miss my Hardened fighters, infiltrate, and sharp shooters.
9598
Post by: Quintinus
-Sound of angelic choir-
Wow. That pretty much made my day. Which is kind of pathetic in hindsight, but I have my money ready for a pre-ordering blitz so I'm okay.
:edit: It looks like the Grenade Launcher's Blast is now Ap6, and not Ap-. Not that it matters too much, but hey, it helps.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
aka_mythos wrote:Scottywan82 wrote:
I'm also way interested to see some points costs. How many STs in Valks can I cram into this army? And can we really get STs as members of a command squad instead of guardsmen? Can those STs be upgraded as normal to medics, standard bearers, etc? These are important questions.
Well there is suppose to be a way to take ST as troops, some speculate that is who Lukas Bastionne is. Irregardless that makes 9 squads and a command squad which should be able to take Valks, assuming the troop choice doesn't lose the ability (unlikely as GW wants to sell alot of Valks). We also don't know if the Vendetta fills a FOC or not. It maybe possible to take 10 Valkaries and then 3 Vendettas as (heavy? or fast?).
It would be nice if I could take STs in Valks as troops, but I hope I don't have to take a company commander special character to do it. If so, it'll definitely be a tough choice. I'm imagining all the cool rules that will be in place for guys like Mogul Khamir ( RRs as troops? Mounted command squads?) or Chenkov or Al'Raheem. Mainly I'm wanting a lot of forward moving, hard-hitting units like ST in Valks, Sentinels, and RRs to scrape other troops choices off an objective and then plod forward with a full company of infantry to capture those objectives for myself.
Certainly for HS, the Medusa looks wicked. But it will need to be considerably cheaper than the Demolisher, despite have an extra foot of range. I can also feel the punisher growing on me as a choice. There's just nothing to compare with laying down a storm of bullets.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I can't imagine more than 5 or 6. You're looking at a 140-150pt Valk and a squad that probably comes in at 120+... thats 260 to 270. You will be lacking fire power... I guess the Master of the Watch and Fleet Officer will help but it still wouldn't be nearly enough.
Scottywan82 wrote:
It would be nice if I could take STs in Valks as troops, but I hope I don't have to take a company commander special character to do it. If so, it'll definitely be a tough choice. I'm imagining all the cool rules that will be in place for guys like Mogul Khamir (RRs as troops? Mounted command squads?) or Chenkov or Al'Raheem. Mainly I'm wanting a lot of forward moving, hard-hitting units like ST in Valks, Sentinels, and RRs to scrape other troops choices off an objective and then plod forward with a full company of infantry to capture those objectives for myself.
Certainly for HS, the Medusa looks wicked. But it will need to be considerably cheaper than the Demolisher, despite have an extra foot of range. I can also feel the punisher growing on me as a choice. There's just nothing to compare with laying down a storm of bullets.
Well it was also rumored that it might be just an upgrade for your commander. Lukas Bastionne... it sounds more like a siege specialist if you ask me, with a name like "Bastion". Who really knows.
Remember with the Medusa and other artillery they don't have much armor and that diminishes their cost.
10256
Post by: The Angry Commissar
The 501st Calusian Seige Regiment shall rise again! FOREWARD GUARDSMEN!!!!!! FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!!! GLORY FOR THE FIRST MAN TO DIE!!!!! CHAAAAAARGE!!!!!!
11840
Post by: LSOP
No one else seemed to notice so I figured I'd put it out there.
Lance-plasma 24ps 7 2 Tir Rapide, Surchauffe
24pt Plasma guns?
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
I can't see the Valkyrie costing as much as it does now in the IA books? I see it being on par with the devil fish so I see it not costing more than 100pts 125 tops, but I could be wrong.
I see it costing more in IA because of the flyer rules and typically IA tends to overcost some items and under costing others.
Right now I am hoping to squeeze in 6-9 Valkyries/Vendettas personally =D
1228
Post by: redstripe
LSOP wrote:No one else seemed to notice so I figured I'd put it out there.
Lance-plasma 24ps 7 2 Tir Rapide, Surchauffe
24pt Plasma guns?
24ps is the range.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
LSOP wrote:No one else seemed to notice so I figured I'd put it out there.
Lance-plasma 24ps 7 2 Tir Rapide, Surchauffe
24pt Plasma guns?
24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".
7375
Post by: BrookM
Valkyrie is most likely 90 points.
+15.....Lascannon
+20.....2 Hellstrike rockets
+70.....2 multiple rocket pods
Though I am basing this of the FW IA 2 update.
edit.
I also wonder whether or not the Vendetta will still be able to carry troops. It just carries more weapons under the wing, this shouldn't be a strain on the ability to carry infantry in the rear.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Executioner is Heavy 3 (so I guess it does exist after all Shummy)
Quetzecoatl will claim them for this travesty.
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
@BrookM: Do you think that the Multiple Rocket Pods will cost that much??
I can see the LasCannon and Hellstrikes costing what you posted, but the MRP's seem a bit high?
7375
Post by: BrookM
Chaplain Pallantide wrote:@BrookM: Do you think that the Multiple Rocket Pods will cost that much??
I can see the LasCannon and Hellstrikes costing what you posted, but the MRP's seem a bit high?
The FW Valkyrie costs 110 pts, that includes the hellstrikes. It costs another +50 to upgrade those to rocket pods. I doubt they'd put in the codex that a Valk would cost 110 pts and that you can replace the Hellstrikes for -20 pts with fuel tanks.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Holy crumble!
Looks like I'm eating crow AGAIN. Delicious, tasty crow. Ogryns with T5 and S5 ripper guns, here I come. I wonder whether Nork Deddog will be an Ogryn upgrade character, or a bodyguard unit like he used to be.
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Post by: Narlix
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hydra is just Heavy 2... which is really dumb... but Range 72.
Honestly my guess is the hydra will have 4 of them. basicly 8 shots , 4 hits
that makes it slightly better than the current one , 4 shots , 3 hits( twin-linked).
Personally I think it makes more since with more shots, over the twin-linking, I do have to say though I hope they dropped the anti-air mount, because in a normal game of 40k its not worth 200 point ( hell its not 200 points good with flyers). Im thinking with the armor it has, and the fact it most likely will be a heavy it should be around the 50 point mark ( giving up a tank, similar fire power to a chimera with a heavy stubber, open topped).
If i had to make a guess GW is heading in a direction of put more lead/energy in the air over acuracy. The Punisher being a good example, and the fact the only twin-linked weapon in the army I see is the exterminator cannon.
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Post by: aka_mythos
BrookM wrote:Valkyrie is most likely 90 points.
+15.....Lascannon
+20.....2 Hellstrike rockets
+70.....2 multiple rocket pods
Though I am basing this of the FW IA 2 update.
edit.
I also wonder whether or not the Vendetta will still be able to carry troops. It just carries more weapons under the wing, this shouldn't be a strain on the ability to carry infantry in the rear.
I think if they price it like that it will be under priced. Its fast, its better armored than a chimera, and troops can jump out of it on the move. I think it'd probably start off at 80-90 and upgrade weapons from there. Its at least twice as good as a chimera before you upgrade weapons and mount rockets. GW will probably have this under priced on points to get people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it will be a big point discount.
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Post by: Necros
Maybe it'll be something like a valkyrie can be a transport option for a squad, but a vendetta will count as a FA choice and can carry 10 men..?
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Post by: BrookM
Necros wrote:Maybe it'll be something like a valkyrie can be a transport option for a squad, but a vendetta will count as a FA choice and can carry 10 men..?
As a dedicated transport. I could see that happen.
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Post by: Dexy
I want to know what the "Fulgurant" is. It doesn't match up to any unit and a STR4 AP5 Assault 2 24" gun sounds quite nice!
320
Post by: Platuan4th
Dexy wrote:I want to know what the "Fulgurant" is. It doesn't match up to any unit and a STR4 AP5 Assault 2 24" gun sounds quite nice! Well, Fulgurant can translate to "Lightning", so I'd say it's the Stormbolter, since that's what those stats match.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Storm Bolter?
Ack... beat me.
It has a storm bolters stats and since we can still mount them on tanks...
10013
Post by: moonfire
of to order 6 leman russ to convert and another 3 boxes of guardsman and 3 boxes of heavy weapon teams
oh wait 3 starters of guard are cheaper ok let's order those
good that I can handel plastic guard reasenable wel so I can convert my own turrets
omg my wallet is gonna hate me
in the emperors name we fight
666
Post by: Necros
Now I'm regretting not buying that box of 10 russes on black friday that was 40% off :(
11367
Post by: cerberez
foil7102 wrote:[. . .] take a PF to the tail pipe [. . .]
sounds painful. . . I like to keep fists out of my tailpipe, but hey, guard players can do what they want
4501
Post by: AlexCage
Something I noticed: It appears that Veteran HW teams have BS 4. I'm not sure how you go about making a HW team a veteran, of course, but the thought of possibly having all my HWs at BS4 tickles me in ways I cannot describe in polite company.
Also, I think it's frikkin' AWESOME that they appear to have brought back almost every special character short of Macharius himself, but I'd have like to see a few more new ideas. Though I'll reserve judgement until I see how cool this so-called-artillery sergent is.
The fact that the Deathstrike is in! and has 12 side armor makes me almost as giddy as the fact that 13 side armor is now standard on all Russ! PRAISE BE THE EMPEROR!
Correct me if I'm wrong, though, but they dropped the Commissar in wounds from 2 to 1, did they not?
Bah, the Commissar Lord more than makes up for that. Sniper Commissar to the rescue!
4437
Post by: Narlix
aka_mythos wrote:BrookM wrote:Valkyrie is most likely 90 points.
+15.....Lascannon
+20.....2 Hellstrike rockets
+70.....2 multiple rocket pods
Though I am basing this of the FW IA 2 update.
edit.
I also wonder whether or not the Vendetta will still be able to carry troops. It just carries more weapons under the wing, this shouldn't be a strain on the ability to carry infantry in the rear.
I think if they price it like that it will be under priced. Its fast, its better armored than a chimera, and troops can jump out of it on the move. I think it'd probably start off at 80-90 and upgrade weapons from there. Its at least twice as good as a chimera before you upgrade weapons and mount rockets. GW will probably have this under priced on points to get people to buy it, but that doesn't mean it will be a big point discount.
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3. I won't use it. I would pay 60 points for it they way, and maybe 90 for it with rocket pods, Its still has paper ish armor and fast means its has a 4+ cover but still dosen't make up for the fact a Chimera for 55 points is packing 9 shots carries 12 and can move 12 inchs and has the same front armor.
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Post by: aka_mythos
AlexCage wrote:Something I noticed: It appears that Veteran HW teams have BS 4. I'm not sure how you go about making a HW team a veteran, of course, but the thought of possibly having all my HWs at BS4 tickles me in ways I cannot describe in polite company.
Also, I think it's frikkin' AWESOME that they appear to have brought back almost every special character short of Macharius himself, but I'd have like to see a few more new ideas. Though I'll reserve judgement until I see how cool this so-called-artillery sergent is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, though, but they dropped the Commissar in wounds from 2 to 1, did they not?
All the heavy weapon teams in all units are now 2 wound models sharing a single base. The Veteran Heavy weapon team are your heavy weapon operating guardsmen from a Veteran Squad.
The volume of classic special characters is awesome.
Yes the commissar came down, but that because he's now a unit upgrade.
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Post by: Dexy
Wasn't there rumours it was move 24" and still fire all weapons?
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Post by: Raxmei
AlexCage wrote:Something I noticed: It appears that Veteran HW teams have BS 4. I'm not sure how you go about making a HW team a veteran, of course, but the thought of possibly having all my HWs at BS4 tickles me in ways I cannot describe in polite company.
...
Bah, the Commissar Lord more than makes up for that. Sniper Commissar to the rescue!
Veteran heavy weapon team is on the same page as veterans and veteran sergeants. Wild guess says it's just a heavy weapons team in a hardened veterans squad.
As always, it is funny that all of the BS5 characters are pistoleros.
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Post by: AlexCage
Raxmei wrote:AlexCage wrote:Something I noticed: It appears that Veteran HW teams have BS 4. I'm not sure how you go about making a HW team a veteran, of course, but the thought of possibly having all my HWs at BS4 tickles me in ways I cannot describe in polite company.
...
Bah, the Commissar Lord more than makes up for that. Sniper Commissar to the rescue!
Veteran heavy weapon team is on the same page as veterans and veteran sergeants. Wild guess says it's just a heavy weapons team in a hardened veterans squad.
Oh well durr. I guess that makes sense. If only I'd have thought about it.
Guess being grouped together like that threw me off.
Possibly another "Durr" moment, but what the hell is :
Obus Brise-forteresses 48ps 10 1 Lourde 1, Explosion* 53?
I find it odd that this isn't classified as "Artillerie". And it looks like all the other tanks are already accounted for.
Edit: Durr. Yeah, Bunker buster round for, what I can only guess is the Medusa. I still find it very odd it's not ordnance.
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Post by: ph34r
ShumaGorath wrote:Executioner is Heavy 3 (so I guess it does exist after all Shummy)
Quetzecoatl will claim them for this travesty.
That would be heavy 3 blast, not just heavy 3.
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Post by: Recklessfable
Dammit, it seems to be gone already.
11
Post by: ph34r
Recklessfable wrote:Dammit, it seems to be gone already.
If you read the thread you will see that it has been uploaded to the Dakka gallery.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
AlexCage wrote:Possibly another "Durr" moment, but what the hell is :
Obus Brise-forteresses 48ps 10 1 Lourde 1, Explosion* 53?
I find it odd that this isn't classified as "Artillerie". And it looks like all the other tanks are already accounted for.
Edit: Durr. Yeah, Bunker buster round for, what I can only guess is the Medusa. I still find it very odd it's not ordnance.
It doesn't need to be Ordnance if it has the rumored + D6 AP against vehichles, which supercedes the Ordnance rule.
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Post by: DarthDiggler
It looks like one of the Russ varient turrets will be a plasmacannon that's heavy 3.
463
Post by: CaptKaruthors
The Executioner sounds cool. I might get a few of those.
Capt K
11623
Post by: DebonaireToast
I might have to buy those blisters of Ogryns that have been gathering dust at my FLGS for the past year or two....
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I may need to load up on more melta guns for STs so they can para-drop and then slag a unit of space marines.
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Post by: chaplaingrabthar
If I ever get my Nocturne (Salamanders Homeworld) themed IG army off the ground, I'm gonna be loading up on so many of these tank variants it'll be ridiculous. Especially the Hellhound variants. (Any guesses for real names for them? Cerberus?)
11
Post by: ph34r
chaplaingrabthar wrote:If I ever get my Nocturne (Salamanders Homeworld) themed IG army off the ground, I'm gonna be loading up on so many of these tank variants it'll be ridiculous. Especially the Hellhound variants. (Any guesses for real names for them? Cerberus?)
I'm pretty sure that the english names for the hellhound variants will be the same as they are in french, and spanish.
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Post by: synchronicity
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Post by: Necros
the translated one says a hellhound is heavy? stormtroopers are fast attack? maybe I missed that before...
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Post by: BrookM
Grain of salt.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
As mythos pointed out, the page references are more likely the references for the ules section, and not the army list section and therefore have nothing to do with the FOC.
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Post by: Ghost in the Darkness
Im so glad that the worst part of these rumors, if true which is likely, is that I'm going to have to get so many new tanks.  Except my wallet won't like that.
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Post by: Balance
It sounds like the HW teams are going to be handled somewhat liek Skaven jezzails.
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Post by: Janthkin
Balance wrote:It sounds like the HW teams are going to be handled somewhat liek Skaven jezzails.
Or like Space Marine Attack Bikes.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Maybe it's just that I don't like being wrong after championing all of Mkoll's rumors from Boot Camp, but am I the only Guard player who's not jumping up and down about this? I think part of my beef with it is that it just all feels so...fanboy.
I was kind of scornful of Agamemnon2's pessimistic attitude at some of the earlier rumors, but now I'm afraid I've got it. Yeah, I mocked the possibility of 22 tanks and I mocked the Spanish rumors. Because it just seemed way too OTT.
Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Not long at all, but that would be true no matter what they gave us. At least now we can also build omega-fluffy lists as well as the 2-3 powerbuilds that will be al you ever see at tournaments.
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Post by: Janthkin
Death By Monkeys wrote:Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.
If the IG get three powerbuilds with as much diversity in tactics & unit selection as the three ork archetypes you highlight, I will be THRILLED. While "Nob bikers" is a fairly narrow build, both of the other archetypes you mention have quite a bit of room for diversity of selection and playstyle. Guard will always equal guns; it's already narrower in overall scope than the ork codex. It is nice to see this much diversity of firepower, as it increases the probability that there will be several completely different competitive builds.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Well the simple fact is you can always pare down a list and game the system more than playing the game. Its just the nature of any system. I think this list comes a bit better than all that though, until we see the point costs and no for sure, it seems most of the leman russ tanks are relatively similar in capabilities and the assault versions are all relatively similar to the demolisher. Everything seems to have some slight variation, which will allow individual play style and tactics to have more impact.
I've never understood the fascination of taking one of these preconceived power gamer lists and building your army around it. You might as well buy a boxed army, because you're cheating yourself out of the satisfaction of winning something entirely on your own. On the flip side, I've seen people who were so poor at playing no power gamer list could help them.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Janthkin wrote:Death By Monkeys wrote:Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.
If the IG get three powerbuilds with as much diversity in tactics & unit selection as the three ork archetypes you highlight, I will be THRILLED. While "Nob bikers" is a fairly narrow build, both of the other archetypes you mention have quite a bit of room for diversity of selection and playstyle.
Guard will always equal guns; it's already narrower in overall scope than the ork codex. It is nice to see this much diversity of firepower, as it increases the probability that there will be several completely different competitive builds.
Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.
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Post by: AlexCage
There are always us players who build lists because they're cool, fun, fluffy, or they just want to take 3 friggin' ICBMS in one firefight (I LOVE YOU DEATHSTRIKE!!!)
There's always going to be the one or two 'powerlists', but there's not always going to be the guarantee of getting options to do basically whatever you want with your army. Guard look to be getting pretty much limitless variation.
And now it seems that even the fluffy lists will be somewhat competitive. Or at least you won't be crippling your army by taking certain choices (like insanely overpriced Chimeras or Commissars, or nearly useless Ogryn).
But seriously. ICBMs. /GLEE!
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Post by: Voodoo Boyz
Thanks Kid Kyoto for getting a pic of the PDF on Dakka!
Wow, looks like something the Orks will be deathly afraid of, points costs pending of course.
And yeah, once the book is out expect it to all be peeled away and have the power lists be obvious pretty quick. It didn't take us very long to figure out "Shoota's + Lootas" when the first Ork leak came out in text form over on the-waaagh.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
One thing I was surprised is that it appears Ratlings will have regular sniper rifles after all. I was expecting something else when I saw the guns the models were holding (which look pretty distinctive and not at all like previous Imperial Sniper Rifles). Death By Monkeys wrote:I was kind of scornful of Agamemnon2's pessimistic attitude at some of the earlier rumors, but now I'm afraid I've got it. Yeah, I mocked the possibility of 22 tanks and I mocked the Spanish rumors. Because it just seemed way too OTT.
It's ironic because I've had to eat record amounts of crow this rumor season. The Spanish list looks to be word-for-word accurate, including penal legionnaires and a million new tank types. Now, I'm still not ecstatic here (Ogryns losing two points of Ld is huge, for example), but I'm feeling pretty darn good about things (especially if the new Codex lets me put a Commissar into an Ogryn squad).
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
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Post by: Ozymandias
I'm really excited about this. I haven't been excited about a codex in a long, long time so the thought of all the goodies that my Renegade IG will get to use is making me all warm and fuzzy inside.
And now I'm looking at the Death Korps models and wondering if it will be affordable to make a Mech DK force. Fewer line infantry to buy and I'd get to use all the new, fun tanks!
Uh oh, I've caught IG fever!!
Ozymandias, King of Kings
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Post by: namegoeshere
I didn't see points costs? Were they there? Hard to say whats hot or not without them
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
ShumaGorath wrote:Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.
True - and frankly, prior to this Guard had no viable tournament builds. Or at least none worth a damn.
Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
I think that may be another problem I'm having with all this. I'm currently just a fledgling IG player, coming into the list at the end of its 3E Codex lifespan. Consequently, I don't have the Guard collection that a lot of other folks do, so I'm picky about how I build and arm my models. Frankly, even if I did have a big selection, with some of these new choices, I wouldn't have a choice but to either:
a) Buy a new model and convert it to be something like a Deathstrike or a Devil Dog, or
b) Tear up one of my older models to convert it to be something that's unreleased.
I just finished one Hellhound conversion and I'm halfway through my second. Now I'm seeing that I'm either going to need to wait for the new Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf kit to come out and buy it, buy another Chimera Chassis and convert yet another Hellhound analog, or...hmmm...I suppose I could magnetize the fuel tank on the back and just build another turret...beh.
No one ever said that playing guard was easy on your wallet or your modeling and painting schedule, huh.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
That's certainly true, but the converter in me is already chomping at the bit. I already own a Griffon, Hydra and two Medusas, all converted from various plastic bits, and it's only a matter of time before inspiration strikes me to build a Colossus, Manticore or Deathstrike.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
This might be the final nail in the "Every Entry in the Codex Gets A Model" coffin...
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...
686
Post by: aka_mythos
The hellhound/devildog/banewolf are all included in the updated chimera.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Can someone help me out with this question:
Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?
I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*
Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?
666
Post by: Necros
we can see some of what Mkoll was talking about here.. in his defense, he was basing his rumors off of a much earlier version. Probably some early playtest codex or something.
I like the sheer variety of everything but at the same time it's almost a little crazy. I do hope when they release the new tank kits the will be easily magnetizable so that all it will take is a simple barrel swap to get the tank you want. I dunno why they just invented the punisher tank though, instead of just using vulcan megabolters. And why have a nova cannon on a tank? isn't that kind of a giant space ship kind of weapon?
1406
Post by: Janthkin
Scottywan82 wrote:I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...
The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.
It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Alpharius wrote:Can someone help me out with this question:
Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?
I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...
The rumor is yes, either by commander upgrade or by special character. Seeing as Lukas Bastionne is apparently a squad sgt special character, it appears to be through upgrading your commander.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Janthkin wrote:
The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.
It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.
IG vehicles are not to the best of my knowledge STCs.
The confirmed rumor is that the Russ' in the initial Leman Russ are Battle Tank, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator.
Chimera and hellhound variants are together.
Alot is up in the air for the rest:
Leman Russ Kit 2 - Punisher, Executioner, Eradicator... possibly done as direct order sprues.
Basilisk/Griffon/Medusa/Colossus
Hydra/Manticore
Deathstrike
4501
Post by: AlexCage
Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.
This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).
Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.
Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!
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Post by: Le Grognard
Anung Un Rama wrote:I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*
Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?
Translates to (rifle to pump) Pump Rifle. You are correct.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Also, when will we be seeing these mythical recuts? 6 months? 12 months? It's a long time out.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.
Wave 2 is rumored to be 6 months after the release of the codex, so around November.
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Post by: BrookM
AlexCage wrote:Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?
Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.
This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).
Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.
Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!
Forge World is still pretty much out of the grasp of the average gamer, so I doubt GW would look to them to fill the gap in the long run. They might create resin versions, but sooner or later GW will create their own plastic kits (hopefully).
Straken has such a high save due to his bionic chest. Something to do with wrestling a Miral Landshark and losing.
edit.
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Post by: redstripe
aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.
I'm pretty sure I can scratch build a giant missile. Is this thing sitting on top of a Chimera chassis?
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Post by: aka_mythos
I agree that is the better way to go then FW, in this instance.
http://www.ifelix.net/gamingblog/wp-content/005_2a.jpg
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Well as someone who had decided to return to the Guard with the new Codex over a year ago, all I can do at the moment is sit here with a smile on my face.
And my mate said he hated playing my old Guard army with his Orks.
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Post by: Necros
aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin..
No they will make the missile hollow and in 7 different pieces, none of which will fit together
1426
Post by: Voodoo Boyz
So if this is true, and it matches up with the other rumors that everyone else thought was way too Fanboy sounding....
Does that mean that we're probably looking at 40 point IG squads?
And the other rumors being probably true?
It will put a huge smile on my face to think that Orks & IG will be the Power Gaming armies of 40k 5th Edition.
How Far We've Come....
666
Post by: Necros
Here's a good model that will be 6x cheaper than a FW deathstrike at $185
http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=16655&cat=355&page=1
Scuds to the rescue!
4351
Post by: ubermosher
I was skeptical of the Spanish rumors, but I'm happy to be wrong.
It's just bittersweet that I still won't be able to use my Salamanders (and I don't want to hear the "A-word").
Now then, they just need to reveal the new Orders System in detail...
Edit: And I'm thrilled the Valkyrie is 12/12/10, instead of 12/10/10... I shuddered at the thought of all those Valkyries brought down by bolter fire. And AV12 Sentinels FTW.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Necros wrote:aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin..
No they will make the missile hollow and in 7 different pieces, none of which will fit together 
True it'd probably a couple of ring shaped sections that stack with a end cap on each end. Irregardless they'd charge $200+
320
Post by: Platuan4th
ubermosher wrote:It's just bittersweet that I still won't be able to use my Salamanders (and I don't want to hear the "A-word").
There's nothing stopping you from using the rules from Imperial Armour Volume 1 when the update PDF comes out.
Except for anal opponents who don't think the IA books are legal...
7015
Post by: glory
This is all pretty much awesome, but the thought of dragging a ballistic missile all the way to the front line is ridiculous.
But other than that it's all awesome, I can't wait to get my hands on these recut kits everyone is expecting.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Alpharius wrote:This might be the final nail in the "Every Entry in the Codex Gets A Model" coffin...
I bloody hope not. Having come from 2nd Ed, where it was mostly pot luck if you got a model to represent a Codex entry, and then into 3rd and 4th, where they went out of their way to ensure everything had a model, I do not want to go back to where there were units that simple do not get models.
That said, it has already started. There's no Buggy/Wartrakk, there are no Flash Gitz, there's no Deff Kopta outside of the Battle for Black Lagoon box, and a few of the special characters haven't got models (and I'd be suprised if we ever saw them).
Ok, so we get a recut Hellhound that has a Hellhound and Stupid Named Tank #1 and Stupid Named Tank #2, so you can do Flamy, Poison or Melta. We get a Russ that has Exterminator and Vanquisher bits and a Demolisher that has Punisher, Eradicator and Executioner bits. I doubt both of those as that's a lot of tanks. What's next? Ok, a Basilisk/Medusa Kit and a Griffon/Colossus kit. Then what? We've still got a Hydra, Manticore and fuggin' Deathstrike do go, and we don't even yet have Penal Legionarres or actual Veteran models.
So Guard are going to have, at minimum, 8 tank-sized kits on the shelf? Hellhound & Friends, the Chimera, Russ & Friends, Demolisher & Friends, Basilisk/Medusa, Griffon/Colossus, Hydra & Friends, Valkyrie/Vendetta?
No. It's too much. We are just not going to see models for half of these things. If I'm wrong, great, but unless my jokes about Guard stretching out releases all the way to Wave 27 in Q3 2028 are true, we're not going to be seeing these things.
[EDIT]: It was often joked that when Jervis came on board to blandify 40K, he was bringing as much 2nd Edition stuff back as possible. Well, like with the recent releases, this is obviously true (Sanctioned Psykers, Chenkov, Nork, etc.), but it appears that with 2nd Ed flavour (modified by 5th Ed blandness), we're also getting the 2nd Ed uncertainly of miniature releases. No clue what's coming out, no clue if something will ever even come out, and months/years at a time when something never gets made.
I said when GW started the 'Wave' thing that I was in support of it, because gradual support is better than dumping everything on new players (and stores for that matter). But really, let me ask y'all this:
Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?
BYE
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I said this before...
aka_mythos wrote:
The confirmed rumor is that the Russ' in the initial Leman Russ are Battle Tank, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator.
Chimera and hellhound variants are together.
Alot is up in the air for the rest:
Leman Russ Kit 2 - Punisher, Executioner, Eradicator... possibly done as direct order sprues.
Basilisk/Griffon/Medusa/Colossus
Hydra/Manticore
Deathstrike
I think the least likely model will be the Deathstrike.
I think the remaining Leman Russ variants could fit on a single sprue.
The basilisk, griffon, medusa, and colossus could easily have 90% shared parts and fit on two sprues.
Hydra and Manticore could be done on a single sprue on top of the chimera chassis.
Once the initial Chimera and Leman Russ kits are complete most everything else is only a couple of sprues.
Let us assume that the redone Chimera and Leman Russ are the only IG tank kits done. The IG model range drops 2 Sentinel Kits and 2 Tank kits, while gaining the Valkyrie. We gain the command squads but those effectively replace various metal minis. With heavy weapon teams included within the squad box, we lose those. We'd only need 3-4 tank kits... one of which would replace a current one bringing us to a total of 2-3 additional kits... replacing 2 tanks and 2 sentinels... this doesn't seem to far fetched. It might not happen for a time, but it does seem reasonable.
10123
Post by: BoxANT
Damnit H.B.M.C. ! Enjoy the moment!!
666
Post by: Necros
I have a feeling it's gonna be more like the steamroller thingy for orks.. you'll get your main kit and it will make a few different versions, then for some other things you will have to special order a sprue from GW. Either that, or they're just going to point you to FW to get some stuff.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Good point, an accessory sprue might be what GW is going after some time with them variants.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
H.B.M.C. wrote:Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?
The latter. My finances aren't boundless, so I couldn't buy everything at once anyway.
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
H.B.M.C. wrote:Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?
I'm with H.B.M.C. on this. I mean, there are a lot of folks that convert models because they like to. Then there are those that convert models because they have to. And then there are the folks who avoid converting so much they won't play a list that contains anything they have to convert. Those folks are going to have to be patient. And the ones that convert models because they have to are just going to get pissed after they've converted up something they want to use and then GW decides to release it a year and a half later. But, hey, it's a good strategy for GW - make us buy, buy, buy!
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
Yeah, I wouldn't mind the wave approach if GW would guarantee that all Codex entries would have a model within 18 months of the Codex release (or some similar time frame)
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Agamemnon2 wrote:The latter. My finances aren't boundless, so I couldn't buy everything at once anyway.
You reasons make no sense. You don't have to buy everything when it comes out at the same time.
To put it another way:
You'd rather wait long periods for model kits to be released. You'd rather not know what model kit they're going to release. You'd rather not know if they're ever going to release a kit for a particular Codex entry. And you'd rather all of this than getting everything released as a model kit because you can't buy it all at once???
See how that doesn't track.
BYE
7632
Post by: Ghost in the Darkness
I'll take everything at once when the book is released so I can be poor for like 2 months while I paint all my new models. And be happy.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
chaplaingrabthar wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't mind the wave approach if GW would guarantee that all Codex entries would have a model within 18 months of the Codex release (or some similar time frame)
I don't care if the timeframe was even longer than that. Really 2 months or 2 years is a small price to pay for knowing that a kit is coming out. Right now we don't even know what's actually in 1st Wave Guard, let alone if the Punisher or the Hydra are ever going to get GW kits. If they said tomorrow that the Deathstrike is coming, but it's going to be a Q2 2011 release, that's fine! At least we know it's coming then. Right now we don't know if we're even getting one, and won't know for sure until a few months from release (remember didn't know what was in Ork Wave 2 for sure until a month or so before everything came out).
BYE
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Obviously, if GW had endless resources it be great to see everything out at once. That just wouldn't work. At the same time I don't really like this wave approach because its proven that GW really can't do more than one thing at a time, and waves end up delaying other codices.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Guard are going to have, at minimum, 8 tank-sized kits on the shelf? Hellhound & Friends, the Chimera, Russ & Friends, Demolisher & Friends, Basilisk/Medusa, Griffon/Colossus, Hydra & Friends, Valkyrie/Vendetta?
No. It's too much. We are just not going to see models for half of these things. If I'm wrong, great, but unless my jokes about Guard stretching out releases all the way to Wave 27 in Q3 2028 are true, we're not going to be seeing these things.
But really, let me ask y'all this:
Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months, and never know if something is going to even get a miniature release, let alone when that release might be?
BYE
Maybe :
Leman russ + 6 different turret weapons on 1 sprue?
All tanks set.
reduced boxes on shelf -1.
Chimera + 6 different turret weapons plus additional pieces for hellhounds.
reduced boxes on shelf -1.
transport and FA set.
"Artillery" tank, chimera hull + 4 different cannons + 1 missile.
artillery set.
Valk + vendetta is possibly only a different weapon loadout, so +1 box on the shelf.
Hydra + manticore could use the same base,but will be hold back until we see more flyers in 40k. +1 box on the shelf later.
this sums up to +- 0 additional boxes.
"Would you rather get every new model in a Codex within a month of the book's release, or get a few things every 6-18 months,"
I would like to see all models been released until the following 3 months. ( codex + models, more models, completing range).
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
I guess I could go with a longer time frame, but anymore than 18-24 months is usually over half the life cycle of an edition, and it would kind of suck to know that Wave 3 of IG is coming out in Q2 2011, but that 40K6 is due 3Q 2011 and skews the balance pendulum back away from IG and other horde armies.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I wish people had read my post. 6th from the top.
7375
Post by: BrookM
As far as I know four plastic kits and four blisters are up for release in MAY. Three plastic kits have been confirmed and the Sentinel kit has also been shown so it would be a safe guess to say that the Valkyrie, Cadian command squad, Catachan command squad and redone Sentinel kit are the four plastic kits for the first week of wave 1. As for the blisters, good luck. Probably the Ratlings, advisors (Astropath, Naval officer and Master of Ordnance all in one blister), the commissar lord and Primaris psyker.
661
Post by: Leggy
Modelling maths
Chimera chassis + 1/2 litre coca-cola bottle + imagination = Deathstrike
I wish actually building the thing could be that simple
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Four boxes and four blisters have been confirmed. As I have said previously, is that:
Box -
Valk
Catachan Command
Cadian Command
Sentinel
Blister -
Commissar Lord
Primaris Psyker
Advisor Threesome
Ratlings
--- OR ---
Box -
Valk
Catachan Command
Cadian Command
Ratlings
[Sentinel = AWOL]
Blister -
Commissar Lord
Primaris Psyker
Advisor Threesome
[Unknown]
And the truth is we simply don't know. And this is after a GW 'Open' day. I'd hate to see what a closed day is... they might deny even making new Codices. And if the Sentinel isn't part of the first release, when's it getting released? This year? Next? Planet Strike? We won't even know when a Wave 2 is actually hitting until they tell us a month or so in advance.
We won't know what's coming out utnil Ghaz posts the Alliance game update, or GW updates their Advanced Orders section.
BYE
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Considering they showed picture of the sentinel kit, I'd assume its in there.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Small boxed sets of metal figures are listed as blisters these days. Don't ask me why or how but they are.
4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
I think they could get away with four tank boxes - the heavies /rear AV11), the standards (rear AV10), the artillery, the 'fast' ones (Chimera, HH variants). Or even three if it is possible to merge the Russ variants into one bigger box, plus sentinels.
I'm quite happy with all of this. Sure, some drops in may be problematic at times but there'll be ways around that. Chenkov can finally lead my Valhallans again, Ratlings stay BS4 (they were once rumoured to drop to BS3), Ogryns are much improved etc. etc. With the points drop and the new order system (!) we will be a force to be reckoned with.
Narlix wrote:
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3.
Well, it is rumoured to be a fast skimmer. Current Guard is decent at shooting stuff but horrible in the assault phase and lacking mobility/speed. Ogryns will address the former, and fast skimmers will address the latter (as will cheaper Chimeras and lumbering behemoths, albeit to a lesser extent). I'm pretty sure ST's will still be able to pack 2 special weapons. This means that the Valk will be able to shoot more guns than a tank and that the passengers have a chance to attack places one would never dream of before.
namegoeshere wrote:I didn't see points costs? Were they there? Hard to say whats hot or not without them
It is a summary, namegoeshere. When was the last time you swa point costs in a summary reference sheet?
9226
Post by: burb1996
Also, remeber that GW seems to be getting a small hint...just look at the new Shadowsword kit. They may just me small changes but that ARE trying to listen and put out multi variants in a box....
Oh, and of course I have to chime in with "awesome".
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
I'm okay with not knowing everything. If the GW release dates were the biggest uncertain element in my life, I'd be thrilled, nay, ecstatic. It's only a game, I can cope. Finding out whether or not they're planning to ever release a plastic Deathstike launcher is absolutely trivial to me. The reason I'd rather have the releases spaced out is because it gives us that greatest of all treasures, which is hope and sense of surprise. I would be bored to tears if I knew the release schedule 18 months in advance. In any case, what happened to the rumor that the Astropath (and possibly the other advisors) would be Direct-only?
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
Yeah, the ne Bladeblade tank kit is a great example. Considering that you would just need other guns in a Leman Russ turret, it can't be that hard to recut the sprues so that every otpion will be an option.
Plus, it would be happy times for every Ork player who has a friend who plays guard
666
Post by: Necros
I think I prefer the wave approach than releasing it all at once. Just because is it gives you something new to look forward to, but that said there should also be a definite time frame for the waves and what is included. GW's "OMG don't tell them what we're making!!!" attitude is just silly.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"
Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.
Ozymandias, King of Kings
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar. There's the long barrel. The very long barrel with the cap. The short barrel. The short barrel with the cap. The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long. And then the Stormlord, which Guard players will be using parts from to make the Punisher until the Punisher gets a kit (assuming the Punisher gets a kit). At the end of the day, I can't wait to get this Codex - so much stuff to steal for 40K Revisited - but the current situation with miniature releases is pathetic, and needs to be changed. GW's secrecy is one thing, but when we get a new Codex and don't even know if we'll get models to represent our new entries (let alone when we're getting them), that's going a bit beyond the stupid 3 month window bull$hit. There needs to be a line drawn, or a mission statement that says either "We will release kits for everything" or "We won't be doing kits for all entries". Either statement is a win for the players, because it at least gives us something to work with. BYE
221
Post by: Frazzled
Leggy wrote:Modelling maths
Chimera chassis + 1/2 litre coca-cola bottle + imagination = Deathstrike
I wish actually building the thing could be that simple
Forget that.
Chimera chassis + real July 4th rocket + this lighter = I win or your army literally gets blown off the table.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?" In the most polite manner possible: Bite me. Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out. I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here). My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work. It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful. BYE
7375
Post by: BrookM
Well, what can WE do about it?
No, I am not being sarcastic here.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar.
There's the long barrel.
The very long barrel with the cap.
The short barrel.
The short barrel with the cap.
The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long.
For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well the Commissar smiley in your sig certainly brings a few ideas to mind.
BYE
4437
Post by: Narlix
Lord Solar Plexus wrote:Narlix wrote:
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3.
Well, it is rumoured to be a fast skimmer. Current Guard is decent at shooting stuff but horrible in the assault phase and lacking mobility/speed. Ogryns will address the former, and fast skimmers will address the latter (as will cheaper Chimeras and lumbering behemoths, albeit to a lesser extent). I'm pretty sure ST's will still be able to pack 2 special weapons. This means that the Valk will be able to shoot more guns than a tank and that the passengers have a chance to attack places one would never dream of before.
Fast skimmer or not, it would still be over priced at 90 points, The storm Troopers even with plasma agianst an meq your talking 4 to 5 wounds, give a 4+ cover save so 2 to 3 dead, thats alot of dead marines,but your talking 130ish points in Storm Troopers another 90ish points of Valk to kill 48 points of marines ( or same number of Orks math is the same).
For the same points you are spending on a valk and full stormie squad you can get two squads of regular IG guys with heavy bolter, plasma gun and 2 chimeras with heavy stubbers. So here is the question 6 multi laser, 6 heavy stubber, 12 heavy bolter, 4 plasma gun, 32 las gun shot at BS3 or 16 hell gun 4 plasma at BS4, one of these options will kill alot more stuff, in a much better way, with more versatlity, and almost as much moblity. hell even without the 32 las gun shots it still kills more than the Stormies and valk.
Now don't get me wrong, Stormies can be useful just not as suicidal one use units. This is why i think the Valk is going to have to be in the 50 to 60 point range to be useable. at that price it really only has the multi laser, its not twin-linked. lets compare it to a wave serpent, the wave serpent averages 110 ish points , it has a twin-linked catapult ( def weapon)and the main weapon in this case bright lances or scatter lasers are also twin linked. The armor is the same but the wave serpent has the little shield thing, and a slew of upgrade options , including one that makes it land , and another that lets it move 36 inches in one turn, The waveserpent can also be taken by deacated assault troops.
Basicly what im saying is the wave serpent is the closest thing in the game to the suspected valk, its weapon load out, options, and surviablity are better but people keep wanting to point them almost the same , it just dosen't make good sense.
4501
Post by: AlexCage
Just to add fuel to the complaining fire (Because what would the internet be without bitching?)
Not only do we not know what is in the next waves (And thus, don't know if the models we want will EVER get made), there's no way to know what Forge World will make, either (as usual).
What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.
So even for those of us who can practically(as practical as FW ever is) rely on Forge World to fill in the gaps, we're likely to end up waiting for months upon months, or longer, still.
Yeah, I like having something to look forward to, also. But honestly, I stopped looking forward to 'vaporware' when Duke Nuken Forever entered it's second decade with no evidence of development. I'm NOT excited about looking forward to what's in the "Mystery Box", or playing a guessing game when drafting up conversions or deciding on new Forge World purchases. The last thing I want is to spend weeks converting up a kickass Colossus battery, only for GW to turn around and drop one in my lap that's 10x cooler.
But I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm REALLY looking forward to this release. It could be bigger, but I'll take whats I can gets.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Agamemnon2 wrote:For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.
Eh, actually, you know what? You're right. There ain't much difference between Russes and especially the Predator, so I'll retract my comments there on the Shadowsword kit (although some do look VERY similar, two in particular that use the short barrel).
BYE
7375
Post by: BrookM
I think Forge World is more or less out of the question. Maybe the odd release in between but for the most part they are working according to an actual plan! Namely churning out models to go with their books.
Now if only those fudpuckers would pick up the fugging phone or check their inbox for once they'd be held in higher esteem.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
AlexCage wrote:What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.
It's certainly not in any way expected. Forge World has never really busied itself with picking up the main range's slack. At best, their releases have peripherally tied in with changes in the main range ( IA3 came out a little before the Tau Empire codex).
Sure, Forge World loves IG, but there's no grounds to assume they're going to release anything not explicitly related to their own schedule (which includes finally wrapping up the Siege of Vraks). What I expect to see from them in the near future is Daemons, Khornate and Nurglish, and possibly one last Krieg unit or something to do with Daemonhunters. What we won't be seeing is them stepping up to make a Bane Wolf, Colossus or Mogul Kamir.
752
Post by: Polonius
I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.
It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.
One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.
For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.
One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.
118
Post by: Schepp himself
I bet (!!) that there won't be regular plastic kits for the Hydra and Medusa variants and we have to rely on FW to get those options.
I mean, in the space marine codex Gw reintroduced all these weapon options for the dreadnaught but didn't bother with an updated dreadnaught box at all. And that was for the space marines.
Do you really think Gw will sacrifice one of their precious wave spots for stuff like medusas? A tank that maybe two or three people will buy when they hit the shelf in plastic?
Nah...
But I agree that the wave release doesn't hit me as genius as some months ago. Until now, GW released just much, much stuff for the orks and squeezed out some ugly dark elf models. The Wave 2 of the space marines seems to be a bit off, too. Maybe for planetfall in autumn.
Greets
Schepp himself
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.
I mean, there's the Griffon, then there's a slightly different Griffon that's AP3. Then there's a Griffon that's S10 with D3 barrage hits. Then there's the Basilisk. Then there's the Demolisher, and then a Demolisher with less armour but +12" of range. Then there's a big Flamer, or a big Flamer that's poison. Why even have a Eradicator Nova Cannon when it appears to do nothing anything else can't do, but better? And why have a Hydra when you have an Exterminator? I mean, it has greater range, and let's assume for a moment that it has two Hydra Autocannons (and therefore fires the same amount of shots)... why take it on an AV12 platform form you can take it on an AV14 platform? Will it have special rules vs Flyers/Skimmers? Will it ignore Skimmers Moving Fast 5+ save? Will it mean more in Planet Strike?
Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?
And the Deathstrike in 40K is still stupid. Sorry. It is. If anything should be Apoc, then the Deathstrike should be it.
And can we please please please please get a plastic Hydra kit (I love that model!).
BYE
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
On the plus side, we know whom to blame.
Robin Cruddace.
118
Post by: Schepp himself
H.B.M.C. wrote:It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.
Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?
BYE
Who are you and what have you done with H.B.M.C.?
Greets
Schepp himself
P.S. I agree, though. Gw scares me a bit with the speed their long-term-plan pendulum swings from codex bland (Dark Angels) to codex variants within, what, two years? How many pages are there supposed to be to explain all the variants to little jervis? Or got this plan cancelled,too?
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Little Jervis probably grew his hair long, got interested in girls and trashed all his models
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Don't worry. I fully expect we'll get a nice 3-4 page Wargear Section that contains lots of nice drawings and diagrams of weapons... and lots of page references to other parts of the books for rules.
BYE
8021
Post by: JD21290
holy gak 0_o
S5 AP- 20 shots
please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol
i may have to start a guard army.
466
Post by: skkipper
deathstrike. If i can take three then so doing a guard army full of guys in white lab coats and black goggles.
they are just there to watch the bomb.
466
Post by: skkipper
JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o
S5 AP- 20 shots
please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol
i may have to start a guard army.
so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"
In the most polite manner possible:
Bite me.
Oh, so maybe that's what you'd prefer the new IG codex to do... (I keed I keed)
Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.
I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here).
My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work.
It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful.
BYE
We are commenting on a leaked pdf of the new IG reference sheet. GW has said NOTHING about IG releases so far. It's a bit premature to say they haven't said anything about the IG release schedule when they haven't really said much at all about the IG codex period. Plus we've seen models of some of the variants so I'm a bit confused how you seem to think they won't be released.
Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.
It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.
One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.
For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.
One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.
Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"
Enjoy your leaked pdf and just chill until we hear more.
Ozymandias, King of Kings
4501
Post by: AlexCage
skkipper wrote:JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o
S5 AP- 20 shots
please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol
i may have to start a guard army.
so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.
If your entire heavy support section can't down a minimum sized squad of Orks in a round, you've got problems...
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
Still more then a Pie plate usually took out.
8021
Post by: JD21290
so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.
ok, name me 3 HS tanks that can cause that ammount of fire?
im willing to bet money on alot of guard players using them, and alot of ork and nid losses to guard
6946
Post by: Dexy
Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"
Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?
BYE
320
Post by: Platuan4th
Dexy wrote:Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!
And a Pintle Heavy Stubber. That's 29 St5 and 3 St4 Shots a turn per tank.
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
I think the KGB was more Open than GW's Open day.
4869
Post by: ShumaGorath
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"
Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?
BYE
Welcome to playing orks and tyranids. Sometimes you just have to assume that a couple of straws and a dremmel will be your only option.
Especially when the whole thing is still months away anyway. You need to go outside, start a garden or something. Get some patience.
8021
Post by: JD21290
And a Pintle Heavy Stubber. That's 29 St5 and 3 St4 Shots a turn per tank.
fill HS with them for a impressive:
87 S5 shots and 9 S4 shots
so, whats that do to a unit of boyz?
and possibly biker nob problem solved?
4869
Post by: ShumaGorath
Thats not really going to dent nob bikers. Not that IG will have a problem with them once they can start tossing out 5+ insta killing, FNP ignoring pie plates a turn.
1047
Post by: Defiler
Aside form hijacking some tanks and troops for my lost and the damned army way back when, I don't have a lot of experience playing guard. Against them sure, but I don't use the army. However, this army list looks like they have the firepower bite they needed. I came from other strategy games before I got into 40k, and I always wondered why the "firepower" army was probably one of the worst at shooting stuff. So, I can't really find anything wrong with this list. Guard players are one of the few types of players (orks as well) who had cheerfully (minimal whining) stuck with their god awful army through the horrible age of 4th edition. I feel they are being rewarded with a worthy codex. Their troops still suck, their charging elements are still tame, but at least they got cheaper and their guns will actually cause some sort of damage on the battle field. I think this is going to be a good codex for the game, and it will be nice to have the alleged kings of ranged combat/horrible CC be back in the game - fulfilling their intended role. But who am I kidding, I bet rough riders and chimeras full of Ogryns with attached fist commisars will be all the rage.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"
Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?
BYE
An open day doesn't mean they are going to tell you what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. Hell, they still may not know what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. All I'm asking is you wait till May to get your knickers in a bunch. Hell, I may join you then!
Ozymandias, King of Kings
8021
Post by: JD21290
i know, but if you were taking 3 of these then pie plates are not about.
and im sure it would do more than a dent.
4869
Post by: ShumaGorath
JD21290 wrote:i know, but if you were taking 3 of these then pie plates are not about.
and im sure it would do more than a dent.
80 shots
40 hits
20 wounds
10 saves from turbo boosting
5 FNP saves
5 Wounds
You won't even kill a single bike.
3934
Post by: grizgrin
Agamemnon2 wrote:Little Jervis probably grew his hair long, got interested in girls and trashed all his models
It's amazing what a great little female body and a couple of beers ready to hand can do to a paint schedule.
3844
Post by: Dave47
Ozymandias wrote:An open day doesn't mean they are going to tell you what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. Hell, they still may not know what their marketing plan is for the next 18 months. All I'm asking is you wait till May to get your knickers in a bunch. Hell, I may join you then!
Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling when he complains about not having specific models for Veterans, he has a point about the wall of silence regarding the new codex.
Given the extent to which GW is looking back to the 2nd Ed. codex and trying to shake up Guard, it's entirely possible that sponsons will be mandatory for Leman Russes. If so, I would like to know this sooner rather than later; I'm not going to buy or assemble anything without (at a minimum) the guarantee that the new model will still be a legal entry in the new codex. I just finished painting up three more 2nd Ed. style HW teams. Now I'm suddenly concerned that I'm going to have to re-base them.
It would be nice to know what the deal is; it's not going to hurt GW in the slightest to reveal some fundamental basics, and would build a lot of goodwill. Not to sound all cliched, but it would be one of those "win-win" scenarios that businesses are supposed to cultivate.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
ShumaGorath wrote:Welcome to playing orks and tyranids. Sometimes you just have to assume that a couple of straws and a dremmel will be your only option.
What model in the Tyranid range isn't available?
ShumaGorath wrote:You need to go outside, start a garden or something. Get some patience.
You need to stop ending posts with personal insults.
BYE
11
Post by: ph34r
Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Dave47 wrote:Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling...
You need to learn the definition of trolling my friend.
Dave47 wrote:Given the extent to which GW is looking back to the 2nd Ed. codex and trying to shake up Guard, it's entirely possible that sponsons will be mandatory for Leman Russes...
Oh God... I hadn't thought of that.
I've got... 11 Russes that don't have Sponsons, 4 of them for my Vanquishers, one of them for my Annihilator, and then 3 w/Hull HBs and 3 w/Hull LCs (yes, I'm OCD enough to have WYSIWYG models for each possible combination of Russ). Other than the fact that the Russ looks betting without Sponsons, it would be terrible if they change that.
I'm going to carry on thinking that Sponsons will be optional. Damn you Dave47 for putting that horrid thought in my head!!!
ph34r wrote:Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?
An excellent point.
BYE
3844
Post by: Dave47
H.B.M.C. wrote:Dave47 wrote:Actually, as much as I think HBMC is trolling...
You need to learn the definition of trolling my friend.
I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.
But would you really be happy if GW released an official set of Hardened Veterans? Or would you just rant and rant about how you wanted your Veterans to match your troops, and this was just an obvious attempt by GW to charge you $30 for a set of five Imperial Guardsmen when you were perfectly capable of converting your own / using your old RT Guardsmen / using Necromunda miniatures / coming up with some other way to designate "veteran" status?
In my view, the line between playing devil's advocate and trolling is a fine one.
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
BrookM wrote:AlexCage wrote:Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!
Straken has such a high save due to his bionic chest. Something to do with wrestling a Miral Landshark and losing.
Sorry, took me a while to dig out my Catachan Codex. Yeah, Straken's got a good save due to his bionics - it's also why he's got S6. But he never had a 3+ save before now. That's definitely new. I'm hoping that he'll get rules similar to those that let him count Catachan Devils as Troops. It'd be pretty sweet for an army he leads to get to use Hardened Vets as troops (particularly if they can take Valks as dedicated transports!)
Granted, I was really hoping for a Catachan special character with a rule titled "I Ain't Got Time To Bleed" which would give him FNP...
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
It's good to see guard getting a boost.
In other news, my CSM are scared.
666
Post by: Necros
I solved the vet issue easily myself.. regular newbie guardsmen just get armor and a gun, vets get backpacks and canteens and other doodads
1478
Post by: warboss
Death By Monkeys wrote:It'd be pretty sweet for an army he leads to get to use Hardened Vets as troops (particularly if they can take Valks as dedicated transports!)
Granted, I was really hoping for a Catachan special character with a rule titled "I Ain't Got Time To Bleed" which would give him FNP...
yeah, the original action star governor would have been cool for a mini. as for straken, i hope he doesn't allow the elite junglefighters to take valks as that's totally against the fluff! bunnies died to make up the catachan fluff! in all seriousness, catachans are billed as the guys who can survive the deadliest jungle with just a dull knife and a single book of matches; getting dropped off by their mommy doesn't go with that.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Dave47 wrote:I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.
Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else?
Dave47 wrote:But would you really be happy if GW released an official set of Hardened Veterans? Or would you just rant and rant about how you wanted your Veterans to match your troops, and this was just an obvious attempt by GW to charge you $30 for a set of five Imperial Guardsmen when you were perfectly capable of converting your own / using your old RT Guardsmen / using Necromunda miniatures / coming up with some other way to designate "veteran" status?
Putting it that way, yeah, I wouldn't want it. But I think the Command Squad box will actually cover us here. But for the rest of stuff, the tanks, yeah, we do need to know if we're ever going to get those.
Dave47 wrote:In my view, the line between playing devil's advocate and trolling is a fine one. 
Trolling would imply I post looking only for a reaction. Now I do post to gain a reaction, but that's only part of it.
BYE
2438
Post by: Durandal
Now I must take Sly Marbo, and have a Leman Russ Punisher with a "Punisher Skull" painted on the front follow him around.
8774
Post by: Jive Professor
These rumors are renewing my faith in GW.
22 tanks? Doth mine eyes deceive me?
God, what am I gonna use to model a Deathstrike? Rockets! With super-powered mutant gunners, yes, yes! *leaves rumbling his hands and mumbling ala Professor Farnsworth*
320
Post by: Platuan4th
Durandal wrote:Now I must take Sly Marbo, and have a Leman Russ Punisher with a "Punisher Skull" painted on the front follow him around.
But Stallone wasn't in Predator...
10011
Post by: king-newmic
What a nice day to be guard but now im disapointed... its like i opened my present before cristmas and killed half of the fun.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
H.B.M.C. wrote:Dave47 wrote:I usually like your posts. You're one of the names I recognize from back when I used to post on Dakka years and years ago, I like players who appreciate the Imperial Guard, and I think any fanboy-centric community needs a healthy dollop of cynicism.
Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else?
See, I thought I was here to make up for all the cynicism in this place!
Since Toreador hasn't been seen in ages someone's gotta do it.
Ozymandias, King of Kings
5468
Post by: temprus
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well someone's gotta make up for for the rampant sycophantism that goes on here. If not me then who else? 
HMBC can do it for us, like he always has!
Man, just when I think I "finally" have my Rogue Trader army figured out, GW does this.
181
Post by: gorgon
ph34r wrote:Yes, it seems like a cornucopia of tanks at first. An overabundance maybe. But isn't that better than being codex CSM'd?
Codex: CSM -- as powerful as it is -- is looking lamer all the time.
I have a feeling opinions here will shift away from boundless optimism once we start seeing points values. But I'll give GW credit -- I really expected something straightforward and bland a la the 3rd ed. IG codex Mk.1. Even if a lot of things aren't "optimal," it looks like it'll be a fun codex with enough decent options to allow some variety.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
temprus wrote:HMBC can do it for us, like he always has! 
On my life I will find HMBC one day, and he'll wish he'd never been misspelt!!!
temprus wrote:Man, just when I think I "finally" have my Rogue Trader army figured out, GW does this.
Isn't that always the way with GW games though? I mean I thought I was done buying Russes and Artillery...
BYE
320
Post by: Platuan4th
I'm thinking of picking up a couple of these to built a Deathstrike or 2.  1/35 SOVIET SA-2 GUIDELINE MISSILE WITH LAUNCHER Because I love Apocalypse and unlimited range.
3934
Post by: grizgrin
HBMC: don't oyu have 2 more russes to round out your last company?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
grizgrin wrote:HBMC: don't oyu have 2 more russes to round out your last company? My Companies are rounded already. They look like this: Main Company Company Command Vanquisher w/ LC Squadron Command Vanquisher w/ LC Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Squadron Command Vanquisher w/ LC Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Squadron Command Vanquisher w/ LC Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Russ w/ LC + 2HBs Oddball Company Company Command Annihilator w/ LC Squadron Command Exterminator w/3 HBs Exterminator w/3 HBs Exterminator w/3 HBs Squadron Command Demolisher w/ LC + 2MMs Demolisher w/ LC + 2PCs Demolisher w/ LC + 2PCs Squadron Command Demolisher w/ LC + 2MMs Demolisher w/ LC + 2PCs Demolisher w/ LC + 2PCs Reserve Company Company Command Executioner w/3 Plasma Cannons (he's cool... or hot I guess) Squadron Command Russ w/ LC Russ w/ LC Russ w/ LC Squadron Command Russ w/ HB Russ w/ HB Russ w/ HB Squadron Command Russ w/3 HBs Russ w/3 HBs Russ w/3 HBs Artillery Company Company Command Basilisk w/Enclosed Top (it's the FW one) Squadron Command Basilisk Basilisk Basilisk Squadron Command Manticore Manticore Manticore Squadron Command Bombard Griffon Griffon Super Heavy Regiment Regimental Command Shadow Sword [Waiting for Plastic Kit] Company Command Baneblade Baneblade Baneblade Company Command Hellhammer Stormblade [Something from the new kit when it's out] Company Command Macharius w/Vanquisher Cannons Macharius w/Battlecannons Macharius w/VMB And then somewhere in there there's 12 Chimeras, 3 Hellhounds and 20-something Sentinels. I don't want nor need more tanks, but were I to get any of the new ones, I would have to get 10, as I cannot have an incomplete company. BYE
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
Now THAT's the sort of problem I WISH I had!
8774
Post by: Jive Professor
Platuan4th wrote:I'm thinking of picking up a couple of these to built a Deathstrike or 2.
1/35 SOVIET SA-2 GUIDELINE MISSILE WITH LAUNCHER
Because I love Apocalypse and unlimited range.
Excellent idea! Perhaps even just using the missile and a Basilisk platform for the launcher, for tournament/ard boy use?
Also: I'm pretty sure that many tanks makes HBMC a Warmaster or Lord Solar at this point. I thought my five Russes was considerable...
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
HBMC, I count 31 russes and variants there. So you need to get 9 of the *new* russes! Problem solved!
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't know how you count 31, unless you're counting the Bombard that is (it is a Russ Hull).
BYE
46
Post by: alarmingrick
no Salamander?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Sadly no. I would've thought it'd make a great Command Squad transport if they'd given it a transpot capacity of 5 or 6.
BYE
10830
Post by: synchronicity
Since when does Imperial technology get to catch up with Tau's? I say, that's a lot of ST 10 AP 1 I see in that "leaked" sheet. Next you'll be telling me they have skimmers too!
Oh wait...
4351
Post by: ubermosher
Oh Salamanders
Why have you been forsaken?
Bite me Games Workshop.
6559
Post by: GMMStudios
Theyve always had st. 10 ap1. If you count forgeworld there is nothing new here really that is st10.
Also, I think the demolisher got nerfed. I couldve sworn it used to be ap1.
11367
Post by: cerberez
no, i remember when I bought a demolisher, back in 3rd edition,
my first tank ever
so excited
and it was ap2, i'm sure of it
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yup. AP2.
BYE
6559
Post by: GMMStudios
Well silly me, maybe I was thinking of the bombard.
46
Post by: alarmingrick
"Oh Salamanders
Why have you been forsaken?
Bite me Games Workshop"
@ubermosher
i do beleive you're being sarcastic!
i'm seriously hurting here!
Samuel L wouldn't be happy either:
"there's too many M*****F****** Russ variants
in this M*****F****** reference sheet!"
9003
Post by: AlfredTheStrange
"Since when does Imperial technology get to catch up with Tau's? I say, that's a lot of ST 10 AP 1 I see in that "leaked" sheet. Next you'll be telling me they have skimmers too!
Oh wait..."
Quote: synchronicity
Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.
kinda like the difrence in US and Soviet gear in the cold war. US allways made better stuff, but it wasnt neseceraly more powerfull. Soviets made some ridiculously powerfull stuff, but they were deathtraps that broke down or ate their crews( T-72 auto loader could mistake drivers for shells).
9320
Post by: Plastic People
Just so you all know. The demolisher cannon is still AP 2. Look at the french pics. it is a typo.
As for the demolisher cannon... screw that. My bread and butter is going to be the excutioner. Heavy 3 plasma cannon...oh and what are those on the side of my leman russ...thats right more plasma cannons. 5 str 7 ap2 shots blasts...yes please...Assuming it is like the demolisher that is.
edit for typos
edit for the word blast. I really shouldnt be trying to post and do my job at the same time.
10830
Post by: synchronicity
AlfredTheStrange wrote:Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.
Heresy! Since when is a ST 10 AP 1 Ordinance blast inefficient?
I kid. I'm glad to see a shootie army in an assaulty edition.
1478
Post by: warboss
synchronicity wrote:AlfredTheStrange wrote:Tau stuff is slick, fancy and minaturised, efficient, and very powerfull. Imperial stuff is massive bulky ridiculously ineficient but very powerfull in order to make up for it.
Heresy! Since when is a ST 10 AP 1 Ordinance blast inefficient?
I kid. I'm glad to see a shootie army in an assaulty edition.
\
lol, it's inefficient because, if the tau made it, it'd be mounted on a broadside and have two shots instead of trucked on a tank and one shot.
5610
Post by: Noisy_Marine
Plasma cannons on tanks sound good assuming that you don't have to roll for Gets Hot. I don't have my rulebook handy, does the Ordnance rule clarify this?
10064
Post by: Kungfuhustler
I really don't know where to begin here. I had vowed to sell off my guard army in a previous post if they took away the variation that made the IG the IG. Specifically things like Drug-Addicted parachuting conscript legions with close combat weapons have always been what made me happy with the IG codex. Getting blown off the table on the other hand... 50% win/loss aside I like the old codex. This new special character Bull-Schwacky makes me kind of queezy and I feel the only cure may be baby punching. My SC disgust aside there are more tanks than you can shake a power fist at on this list!!! My only complaint with these tanks is fairly invalid but I'll lodge it anyways: I ordered 2 executioner turrets from forgeworld a couple weeks back because in IA3 they are a 54" 7/2 large blast! AP2 w/ 54" Range!!! it's nice that I'll have the new turret when the new book comes out but It is getting nerfed at the same time. And I wanted a salamander command vehicle cuz it's a vehicle that counts as your HQ and that is frakkin cool.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't think Executioners were ever Large Blast. I know because I've always regarded the Executioner as completely pointless . It costs more than a Russ yet has less effect - it was a typical Forge World unit: Overcosted and underpowered.
This Executioner is better. Way better. Almost 3 times better! And my Executioner, with the Sponson Plasma Cannons and Hull Plasma Cannon is now even better than it was beore!!!
BYE
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
The executioner was never a Large Blast cannon.
Basically what they are doing is cutting it's range to 36" and tripling it's RoF.
10064
Post by: Kungfuhustler
H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't think Executioners were ever Large Blast. I know because I've always regarded the Executioner as completely pointless . It costs more than a Russ yet has less effect - it was a typical Forge World unit: Overcosted and underpowered.
This Executioner is better. Way better. Almost 3 times better! And my Executioner, with the Sponson Plasma Cannons and Hull Plasma Cannon is now even better than it was beore!!!
BYE
I had to read that twice... you said HULL plasma cannon? did you scratch that or is it available somewhere?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Back when GW Mail Order had a point, and their bitz service was up and running, I ordered an extra Demolisher Cannon Sponson Plasma Cannon bit (I had got 13 Russes from BWB, but was turning most of them into Exterminators and Demolishers, hence the bitz orders).
I was planning on getting an Executioner later down the line, and knew I wanted to do an 'All Plasma' tank for my Company Commander (it's the Tallarn FW Tank Commander guy with the speaker and the laspistol). So I took all three plasma bitz that I had spare, put them into a single kit and made the ultra Plasma Tank of Ultimate Plasma-y Doom.
It's not in any way legal, but it's cool.
BYE
2401
Post by: Recklessfable
H.B.M.C. wrote:There needs to be a line drawn, or a mission statement that says either "We will release kits for everything" or "We won't be doing kits for all entries". Either statement is a win for the players, because it at least gives us something to work with.
BYE
Wasn't the latter option the one Jervis announced just before Dark Angels? Glad they essentially dumped that...
As for the rest, there is a buttload of redundancy in the options, I agree. Points costs will become a deciding factor in the race to see if any of this is broken.
11470
Post by: AffliKtion
OHHHHHHH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
goo IN MY PANTS!!!!
lol at censored word.
10064
Post by: Kungfuhustler
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I took all three plasma bitz that I had spare, put them into a single kit and made the ultra Plasma Tank of Ultimate Plasma-y Doom.
It's not in any way legal, but it's cool.
BYE
When it comes to apoc anything goes really.
6946
Post by: Dexy
One thing I was considering, I really don't think the KP issue will be addressed at all. Considering the Codex is already being translated into French/Spanish, the Codex must have been finished around the end of last year. This means the writing of the Codex probably started around the launch of 5th edition, and I doubt the complaints of the KP system to the design staff would have got there in time.
357
Post by: Angron
aka_mythos wrote:
I've never understood the fascination of taking one of these preconceived power gamer lists and building your army around it. You might as well buy a boxed army, because you're cheating yourself out of the satisfaction of winning something entirely on your own. On the flip side, I've seen people who were so poor at playing no power gamer list could help them.
As the guy who has brought you most of the true power builds over the years, I feel mostly to blame for what has become. Little did I know that my creations ( LaTD Daemon Spam, Assault Cannon Spam, Schaeffers Last Chancers/ Deep Strike Spam, Nob Bikers, Battlewagon Spam, Salamanders..... to name a few ) would spread so far and wide (you dirty copiers) that they would be affecting other flgs.
So.. with that being said, I will back cracking the IG Codex..... so far, from what I've read, none of you have figured out what appears to me to be the best way to do a guard army.... keep trying. When the points costs come out, we'll see who can beat me to it
357
Post by: Angron
Anung Un Rama wrote:I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*
Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?
I'm pretty sure "Penal Legionaires" are arbites.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Penal Legionaires will be Penal Legionaires. Guardsmen sentenced to serve in a Penal Legion for their crimes.
BYE
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Penal legionnaires have 5+ save. Arbites have carapace.
They have curiously high leadership for a convict formation. There are a few ways I can think of to justify that, but it's odd that the basic legionnaire would have Ld8 when nearly every other squad reserves that for their sergeant.
The astropath has a really low Ld for a psyker.
357
Post by: Angron
Hmmm... then what is "Penal Guard"?
Hmmm.. Looking at the page reference, it's prolly the legionaires sergeant..... who knows, the "Penal Guard" could be the Arbite assigned to watching the legionaires
10064
Post by: Kungfuhustler
Um, guys? If a guardsmen is 4 pts, how cheap is a conscript? If weight of fire wins 40k a model with rapid fire for under 4 points seems pretty nasty. I'm going to go buy another 5 boxes of guardsmen at my flgs tomorrow... and some morale officers!
4428
Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
Narlix wrote:
Fast skimmer or not, it would still be over priced at 90 points, The storm Troopers even with plasma agianst an meq your talking 4 to 5 wounds
Are we still talking about the usefulness of the Valkyrie or are we discussing stormtroopers now? What do I care about points killed?!? Points are meaningless. What matters is which elements I can neutralize. With those shots - you're looking at 4 to 5 wounds without plasma, without the Valkyrie, which you shouldn't if you figure in its points cost -, and that mobility, MEQ's aren't safe anywhere on the board. You can potentially get them when they're not in cover, you can evade them if you must, you can contest objectives or get in some side/rear shots much more easily. 4-5 wounds can result in the special or heavy weapon or powerfist dying. Just chose your targets carefully.
10 Marines rapid firing bolters result in exactly the same number of stormtrooper casualties. This is an unprecedented level of effectiveness for us. A 90 point Valkyrie will be golden, and a 130 point Valkyrie will have ample firepower to support the troopers I bet.
For the same points you are spending on a valk and full stormie squad you can get two squads of regular IG guys with heavy bolter, plasma gun and 2 chimeras with heavy stubbers.
If you say so. Buy what you like. I'm sure static gunline has something going for it as well.
This is why i think the Valk is going to have to be in the 50 to 60 point range to be useable.
Why not for free? To be frank, your notion is nonsense. A fast skimmer that is better armed and armoured than a Chimera cannot cost the same. You want to have your cake and eat it.
I'm afraid I never do cross-codex comparisons. They're inevitably not telling the whole story.
Kungfuhustler wrote:My only complaint with these tanks is fairly invalid but I'll lodge it anyways: I ordered 2 executioner turrets from forgeworld a couple weeks back because in IA3 they are a 54" 7/2 large blast! AP2 w/ 54" Range!!! it's nice that I'll have the new turret when the new book comes out but It is getting nerfed at the same time.
It is not. H.M.B.C. has the right of it, it never used a large blast but a small one. The new Executioner will have three times the firepower from its main weapon.
Angron wrote:Hmmm... then what is "Penal Guard"?
Hmmm.. Looking at the page reference, it's prolly the legionaires sergeant..... who knows, the "Penal Guard" could be the Arbite assigned to watching the legionaires
Indeed, it is the overseer, the guy guarding the penal legionaries.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Kungfuhustler wrote:Um, guys? If a guardsmen is 4 pts, how cheap is a conscript? If weight of fire wins 40k a model with rapid fire for under 4 points seems pretty nasty. I'm going to go buy another 5 boxes of guardsmen at my flgs tomorrow... and some morale officers!
Well, if Conscripts come in nice big 20-man chunks, they might go for 45-55 points + weapons? Still don't seem very useful. Unless, of course, we get the Commissar with those heavy bolters  The summary sheet isn't quite enough to dispel that particular rumor.
518
Post by: Kid_Kyoto
On the Garde Penal (A2) vs the Legionnaire Penal I think (A1) I think the A1 guy might be the sgt. Garde is the word for the standard guardsman, and I think a Legionnaire is a higher rank in French.
So the normal guys are wacked out on combat drugs the sergant has 1 attack.
Or I'm just wrong.
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Post by: Lord Solar Plexus
You are wrong. Those are simply penal troopers. 'Legionnaire' is not a rank.
10089
Post by: Exile
Kid_Kyoto wrote:On the Garde Penal (A2) vs the Legionnaire Penal I think (A1) I think the A1 guy might be the sgt. Garde is the word for the standard guardsman, and I think a Legionnaire is a higher rank in French.
So the normal guys are wacked out on combat drugs the sergant has 1 attack.
Or I'm just wrong.
Legionnaire is the entry-level rank in the French Foreign Legion, AFAIK, whereas the rest of the French army has ranks like Soldat, Caporal and so on.
Looking at the stat lines, it makes sense that Légionnaire Pénal are the grunts, the convicts sent to earn the Emperors forgiveness by dying in his name, whilst the Garde Pénal is the man leading them into battle.
Or I'm wrong myself.
Or we're all wrong. Hell, this whole leaked page is so near identical to the Spanish rumor it could be a red herring. I hope it isn't, I really do hope the poster of the original Spanish rumor saw this page and that's why they're identical. I like this leak, and hope it's legit, but I'm keeping my doubts until I have my own copy of the codex, in English, in my grubby mitts. I'm just cynical like that.
518
Post by: Kid_Kyoto
This leak makes total sense, it's from a GW site for luvapete. Unless GW is making deliberate misinformation in French why else would it exist?
I like the theory that these leaks are coming from the translators. I can imagine that GW-UK holds things tightly but the foreign offices make mistakes.
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
Yeah, and a hoax of this complexity would take so much effort that it's more unlikely than this being a genuine slip-up.
10089
Post by: Exile
Kid_Kyoto wrote:This leak makes total sense, it's from a GW site for luvapete. Unless GW is making deliberate misinformation in French why else would it exist?
I like the theory that these leaks are coming from the translators. I can imagine that GW-UK holds things tightly but the foreign offices make mistakes.
I know it makes sense, and I know the only explanation other than it being legit is deliberate misinformation. I know GW is probably not involved in that sort of thing, leaving it to those with something more important to hide than a few stat lines. Part of me, however, likes a good conspiracy, no matter how outlandish and how little I believe it myself. It wouldn't take too much for individual within GW to copy the rumor in a summary page template, add some stats and leak it.
It is, however, unlikely, but I take all leaks with a grain of salt, because things can still change. Although admittedly at a touch over ten weeks from the launch, I'd expect the rules to be set in stone, and the finished codex to be at least going through the latter stages of proofing and translation, if not already printed and sitting in a warehouse.
It's outlandish and incredibly unlikely that this is a ruse, I accept that, and I also say it's all but certain that this page will be in the French Codex, and every other version will see it translated into the respective languages, but I get bored and sometimes my pessimistic mind goes into overdrive and sometimes a stupid idea is born.
(Edited for spelling)
221
Post by: Frazzled
Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.
It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.
One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.
For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.
One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.
Just convert it anyway. Whats the problem-you still have the minis when the GW version comes out. If GW's is better and you want to spend the cash go for it. If not you have a unique conversion to call your own. Plus often with conversions they can be done in such a manner that you a model wil have multipler uses.
Convert different turrent for your chimera. Voila you now have all the choices you want. Got a burr up your butt to have twin linked heavy bolters today-you're ready to party. Autocannons in a funk, ring them up to.
Relying on GW is like relying on the government. Never a good thing.
518
Post by: Kid_Kyoto
On converting, you're better off than Chaos players were with the defiler when the rules were out but no model. they had to build with very little idea what it would look like or how big it should be. I saw everything from zoids to dreads with battlecannons. Mine was a russ on legs and wasn't too far off but is still a bit small. A russ with a new gun is still a russ. And I agree, a simple 'The Leman Russ Deep Hurter is due in early 2010' would make people a lot happier.
8471
Post by: olympia
So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
It looks great! Let me jump on the bandwagon of people asking for an INKLING of when the kits will be due. I am not converting and not buying FW stuff. So unless GW makes the kit, I guess I'll just be boned. Hopefully they have some idea of when those kits will be out.
6633
Post by: smiling Assassin
olympia wrote:So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.
From the point of view of somebody only vaguely interested in gaming with the new models, they look great.
sA
181
Post by: gorgon
I wonder if the penal legionnaires will have the explosive neck collars like in the old days? I assume Human Bombs aren't back, though.
666
Post by: Necros
Agamemnon2 wrote:Yeah, and a hoax of this complexity would take so much effort that it's more unlikely than this being a genuine slip-up.
That's what they said about Roswell!!
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
olympia wrote:So it seems that most of you IG players are happy with what you see? All that armor sure looks nasty.
I'm happiest because of the new plastic Command Squad box, plus the fact that Ogryns got some love, as well as the humble Medusa. The new tanks are a bonus. A pretty neat bonus.
4437
Post by: Narlix
[quote=Lord Solar Plexus
If you say so. Buy what you like. I'm sure static gunline has something going for it as well.
Why not for free? To be frank, your notion is nonsense. A fast skimmer that is better armed and armoured than a Chimera cannot cost the same. You want to have your cake and eat it.
.
Calling 2 Guard squads with Chimeras a static gun line, is like calling 2 units of firewarriors with devilfish a static gun line. A static gun Line would be 4 Squads of IG grunts The chimeras means they can move and most likely will move.
Yes the valk is a fast skimmer, that means it can move 12 inchs unload, and shoot 1 primary weapon and all def weapons, or it can move 24 inchs and do nothing. It comes armed with 1 multi laser and two heavy bolters , all 3 are primary weapons. It could move 6 inchs at shoot all 3 but then it won't get the 4+ cover save, the main reason fast skimmers are nice. So the net effect is that the Valk is not better armed than a chimera, at best it is equal, but since I can give the chimera a heavy stubber the chimera is better armed for in game effect. The effective weapon load out on the valk is really just the multi-laser ( unless it has special rules or the hell strikes ect, but those would really p-off some eldar players i think)
The valk has 12 12 10 armor , the chimera has 12 10 10 , front armor is the same , side armor on the valk is better, but since its a much larger model and a skimmer its much easier to get line of sight on . While the chimera does have worse side armor , most shots will be agianst its front armor , the chimera is much easier to get hull down and hide, its also a tank ( so it can ram haha, tank shock haha, well ok nothing to great there) , but it comes with a smoke and a spot light( you know not great but every once in a while). The main weapon on the chimera is also turret mounted whitch means it can always leave its 12 armor to the most threat. The valk on the other hand is all hull mounted so it has to turn. I look at both and they look very even in net effect.
Like I said in my earlier post put the rocket pods on it, and for 90 or so points I think it would makes a good fast attack option with 2 5 inch str4 blasts and 3 multi laser shots.
4437
Post by: Narlix
I noticed that the weapon teams are 2 wound models now and not two guys. I really hope they are giving them Eternal warrior, because if they don't that actually makes them alot weaker. Also could mean the lose of a las-gun shot per a squad, nothing big on its own but it could add up over an entire guard army.
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Post by: Necros
I like the changes but I doubt I will get into too many of the new tanks and just expand on what I have. I will probably save the basilisks for Apocalypse, it looks like they made the earthshaker be always indirect fire with a minimum of 36" so it will just be better on those big tables. I usually play 2000 or 2500 pt lists, could care less about tournaments. Right now for heavies I run 1 standard russ, 1 demolisher and 1 basilisk, but i'm gonna switch that to a squadron of 3 russes and 2 demolishers. I also run 2 hellhounds now, and just ordered a 3rd so I will have all 3 fast slots filled as 1 squadron. The rest will all be men, I have 2 units of stormtroopers but I will only buy valkyries for them if they won't take up a FA slot since I'd rather have my trusty hellhounds.
1478
Post by: warboss
Narlix wrote:
Yes the valk is a fast skimmer, that means it can move 12 inchs unload, and shoot 1 primary weapon and all def weapons, or it can move 24 inchs and do nothing. It comes armed with 1 multi laser and two heavy bolters , all 3 are primary weapons. It could move 6 inchs at shoot all 3 but then it won't get the 4+ cover save, the main reason fast skimmers are nice. So the net effect is that the Valk is not better armed than a chimera, at best it is equal, but since I can give the chimera a heavy stubber the chimera is better armed for in game effect. The effective weapon load out on the valk is really just the multi-laser ( unless it has special rules or the hell strikes ect, but those would really p-off some eldar players i think)
The valk has 12 12 10 armor , the chimera has 12 10 10 , front armor is the same , side armor on the valk is better, but since its a much larger model and a skimmer its much easier to get line of sight on . While the chimera does have worse side armor , most shots will be agianst its front armor , the chimera is much easier to get hull down and hide, its also a tank ( so it can ram haha, tank shock haha, well ok nothing to great there) , but it comes with a smoke and a spot light( you know not great but every once in a while). The main weapon on the chimera is also turret mounted whitch means it can always leave its 12 armor to the most threat. The valk on the other hand is all hull mounted so it has to turn. I look at both and they look very even in net effect.
Like I said in my earlier post put the rocket pods on it, and for 90 or so points I think it would makes a good fast attack option with 2 5 inch str4 blasts and 3 multi laser shots.
except for the fact that the rumor is that valkyries can drop out guardsmen even when moving 24" at the cost of a difficult terrain test for the deployed. i disagree completely with your reasoning. if i use your logic, the leman russ isn't really better armed than a closed top sentinel with a lascannon. both are armed with a lascannon; if the leman russ moves, it can't fire the additional weapons since it can only fire one primary. the sentinel can also move it's full distance and fire ALL it's weapons while the LBT moving 6" loses 3/4 of it's firepower. also, the LBTisn't more armored since it is a bigger model with the same rear armor so it'll be harder to keep the enemy from hitting it there. obviously, the LBT IS better than a sentinel in both regards and so is the valkyrie compared to a chimera.
both the valkyrie and chimera's role is to get their onboard infantry delivered where you want them. in this game you pay for the ability to choose. with the valkryie, you can choose to get a 4+ cover save in return for not shooting; the chimera can't. you can choose to get them to 24" away in one turn; the chimera can't. you can choose to cover the now departed infantry with a multilaser/lascannon, two heavy bolters, and wing weapons even when moving 6"; the chimera can't (limited to two main weapons and only when not moving). you can ignore standard infantry on all sides except the rear due to armor 12; the chimera can't (only the front). you can choose to deploy almost entirely underneath the vehicle (due to the large side doors) bringing you closer to the enemy if you want; the chimera can't (only through the poopchute on the back). a fair comparison would be to look at the tau transport as it's a skimmer with roughly the same transport capacity. now increase the points due to the better valk weaponry and speed (and possibly the disembarkation rule if it's true) and you've got a fair price. the $$$ cost is a different story, lol.
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Post by: jamunition
WOOOT!
That special Ogryn Nork Degog is back with 4 wounds! and 4 attacks!
9598
Post by: Quintinus
Necros wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:Yeah, and a hoax of this complexity would take so much effort that it's more unlikely than this being a genuine slip-up.
That's what they said about Roswell!!
Tell me about it! I was getting a late night snack at my fridge and Elvis told me all about it. He's actually a pretty nice guy, but I think he took the rest of my ice cream.
8218
Post by: Raxmei
Necros wrote:I like the changes but I doubt I will get into too many of the new tanks and just expand on what I have. I will probably save the basilisks for Apocalypse, it looks like they made the earthshaker be always indirect fire with a minimum of 36" so it will just be better on those big tables. ...
They most likely removed the direct fire mode because it is superfluous in 5th edition. Page 58, Ordnance Barrage weapons. You can always choose to fire an ordnance barrage weapon directly and ignore the minimum range.
I personally don't like the apparent new implementation of heavy weapons team, but I can see why they did it. It simplifies how the team is handled, even if it does produce some illogical results.
666
Post by: Necros
I kind of always ran my HW teams as a single 2 wound model that got to shoot a lasgun and a heavy. I put a 2nd model on the big round base and when the HW team takes a wound I remove the lasgun guy.
So, with the new rules when you roll for armor saves if there's a team in a unit you roll for 9 saves now instead of 10?
1918
Post by: Scottywan82
And will you get to fire the hW AND the lasgun or no?
1406
Post by: Janthkin
Necros wrote:I kind of always ran my HW teams as a single 2 wound model that got to shoot a lasgun and a heavy. I put a 2nd model on the big round base and when the HW team takes a wound I remove the lasgun guy.
Did you remove the whole team when it took a single S6+ wound? If not, you weren't running it as a 2 wound model; you were doing what you were supposed to.
4501
Post by: AlexCage
Scottywan82 wrote:And will you get to fire the hW AND the lasgun or no?
Aw crap. I didn't even think about this, or the overkill thing.
This is going to be a serious nerf to heavy weapons teams.
What will we do without that extra str 3 shot?
Ok that sounds totally facetious, but I'm being serious...
4437
Post by: Narlix
warboss wrote:
except for the fact that the rumor is that valkyries can drop out guardsmen even when moving 24" at the cost of a difficult terrain test for the deployed. i disagree completely with your reasoning. if i use your logic, the leman russ isn't really better armed than a closed top sentinel with a lascannon. both are armed with a lascannon; if the leman russ moves, it can't fire the additional weapons since it can only fire one primary. the sentinel can also move it's full distance and fire ALL it's weapons while the LBT moving 6" loses 3/4 of it's firepower. also, the LBTisn't more armored since it is a bigger model with the same rear armor so it'll be harder to keep the enemy from hitting it there. obviously, the LBT IS better than a sentinel in both regards and so is the valkyrie compared to a chimera. .
Oh come on, Thats not even close to what said. While the Las-Cannon on a leman russ is a Primary weapon you are intentionally ignoring the fact the Leman Russ has a Battle Cannon. Currently a correctly equip Russ is only losing a las-cannon shot, a shot it won't make anyway,even standing still, since its armed with an Ordanace weapon , the reason you buy a MBTLR. and why would you use a 80 some point sentinel anyway?. The two things you are comparing do two very diffrent things, The valk and chimera are both transport options, they do the same role.
Basicly fast skimmers transports have previously only shown up in two other armies , raiders in the dark eldar, and wave serpents and falcons in the eldar army. Like I said in a Prior post, the falcon is better than the valk, but people are basicly saying they should cost the same. The cost of the transport really need to match what it will do on average and what infantry it can carry. for 120 ish points its has a twin linked scatter laser (basicly bs 4) twin-linked catapults, and can have a 36 inch of movement. and is more surviable than the valk with the same armor. The wave serpent can carry assault troops, or really shooty short range murder teams ( fire dragons) that kill MEQ or Tanks with ease. The Valk is going to Carry decent short range shooty troops, Its not hauling a team armed with melta guns, its not hauling power weapon armed banshee's,. I mean there is nothing in the IG army you can put in it that would make it cost close to the points of a wave serpent. i won't mention the raider its points cost is 10 years old and from 2 editions ago.
warboss wrote:
both the valkyrie and chimera's role is to get their onboard infantry delivered where you want them. in this game you pay for the ability to choose. with the valkryie, you can choose to get a 4+ cover save in return for not shooting; the chimera can't. you can choose to get them to 24" away in one turn; the chimera can't. you can choose to cover the now departed infantry with a multilaser/lascannon, two heavy bolters, and wing weapons even when moving 6"; the chimera can't (limited to two main weapons and only when not moving). you can ignore standard infantry on all sides except the rear due to armor 12; the chimera can't (only the front). you can choose to deploy almost entirely underneath the vehicle (due to the large side doors) bringing you closer to the enemy if you want; the chimera can't (only through the poopchute on the back). a fair comparison would be to look at the tau transport as it's a skimmer with roughly the same transport capacity. now increase the points due to the better valk weaponry and speed (and possibly the disembarkation rule if it's true) and you've got a fair price. the $$$ cost is a different story, lol.
Actually the Chimera has at least one turn it can chose to move 12" not shoot and have a 4+, it has smoke. Not sure you can deploy UNDER a skimmer, witch means all the guys are going to have to get out on one side or the other. The rumored disembarking rules shouldn't cost any points, your basicly trading 3 Storm Troops ( witch could be your plasma/melta guns) for the honor of getting to kill 2 to 3 marines, then loseing the rest of the stormies in his shooting phase. You have to also remember that since it is a fast skimmer Imobalized result kill it also , that means glancing hits can kill it. that makes the 12 armor not nearly as nice.
752
Post by: Polonius
Frazzled wrote:Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.
It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.
One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.
For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.
One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.
Just convert it anyway. Whats the problem-you still have the minis when the GW version comes out. If GW's is better and you want to spend the cash go for it. If not you have a unique conversion to call your own. Plus often with conversions they can be done in such a manner that you a model wil have multipler uses.
Convert different turrent for your chimera. Voila you now have all the choices you want. Got a burr up your butt to have twin linked heavy bolters today-you're ready to party. Autocannons in a funk, ring them up to.
Relying on GW is like relying on the government. Never a good thing.
I really love when People respond to posts like mine (which was a more nuanced and measured version of what HBMC posted) in ways that in no way challenge or dispute my statements, but that essentially say "man up" or "stop whining." I know you're not really calling me out, but it's still frustrating to me sometimes.
Look, I can add gubbins to a Russ Barrel and call it my Soddom Pattern Leman Russ Donkey Punch with the best of them. It's not hard, it's not the end of the world, and I'm sitting alone in the dark listening to Fall Out Boy weeping about not having every varient available. Of course if there is a top notch unit in the codex, it'll get converted up. Look at Battlewagons with Deff Rollers in the new Ork book: there was no lack of them due to not having a model.
Defending GW (or I suppose smacking down the cynics) can be a full time job, but let's not ignore a pretty true statement: the hobby would be better off if GW gave us at least an idea of if and when they're doing some kits.
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