My take an all in one approach:

Light mech basic concepts.
Light mechs are the cheapest, and normally the fastest. Battletech heavily penalises combining mass with speed, you can have a light unit move fast, or a heavy unit mover slow but the graph for engine mass vs performance is not straight, the bigger the engine you need the less eficient it is. This can result in very fast efficient light designs, and woefully inefficient fast heavy mechs. likewise there are underpowered light mechs with ridiculously small engines.

In general however if you want a light mech your primary asset is the cheap fast engine. The downside is that many compontents such as the gyro and cockpit have a more or less constant size. Once you have accounted for those there is little tonnage remaining for weapons and armour.

Commando
Lyran mech. Though common enough anywhere. Light mechs tend to change hands a lot, something to do with weak leg armour and scouting roles. One of the few mechs to be in continuous mass production due to the near unstoppable Hesperus industrial complex.

Pro: Very good firepower for a light mech, and at 25tons this is one of the lightest.
Con: Lacks jump jets or supreme speed of other light designs.

Spider
Most agile mech in the original game. While the center torso lasers can fire longer than arm mounted weapons in another mech do not get carried away regarding the Spiders 'survivability' if you are taking heavy side torso or arm hits you risk taking heavy leg hits too. Once that happens its game over Spider.

Pro: Exceptionally agile, you can rely on the Spider getting where you want it. Sane options involve objective holding ansd getting behind enemy mechs. The Spider is of most use as a flanking mech against a static defensive line as its jump value of 8 allows it to reach positions other mechs cannot go. its very difficult to design a fortress that is Spider proof.
Con: Cannot do too much when it gets there.

Jenner
The nastiest light mech design. It combines exceptional agility, not quite as good as a Spider but close with limited jump jets and firepower exceeding that of the Commando. Jenner is one of the few designs which has a jump capability but one that is not matched to the maximum capacity dicatated by engine speed. This cuts the juimping ability to a modest 5 but likewise cuts down tonnage allocated to jump jets. Its firepower exheeds its ability to disappate heat but this is offset by the mechs hit and run nature. assuming you run after you hit (generally wise) you have time to cool down after your attack run.

Pro: The best 'backstabber' mech as it combines good mobility with heavy close range firepower. Known for its horribly potent short range alpha strike i.e. fire all weapons now pay later in heat penalty.
Con: Really there isnt one, the Jenner is one of the best desgned mechs in the Inner Sphere. However its still a light mech and cannot take a heavy hit without risk of serious damage. It also has more guns than it can realistically fire.

Panther
An honourary medium mech. At 35tons its still a light, but with the dynamics of a mech heavier design for good and ill. the Panther is one of two light designs to mount a heavy gun, the other being the absent Urbbanmech, and both designs pay to some extent or other with reduced speed. The Panther gets the better deal here as it keeps the firepower and collects passable agility and armour. A highly recommended design. You get a PPC the first of the big guns seen. Good range good damage offset by a large heat penalty and a minimum range penalty. Both downsides are offset, as the Panther is armed with little else and has bonus heat sinks, the first design featured to do so. Thus this mech can fire its man ghun and walk run or jump while still remaining heat neutral. Once an enemy closes the PPC is silenced in favour of an SRM 4 rack.
The Panther is a signiture mech of house Kurita but as a light mech some to change hands so it can be expected to be seen elsewhere. The mech is manufactured on Dieron in a factory within a hollowed out mountain, and has remained on full production throughout the Succession wars and beyond. for this reason and its adaptability house Kurita has been kniown to field formations entirely consisting of Panthers though this is not entirely recommended.

Pro: Very efficient mech offering excellent ranged firepower, decent armour and agility in urban terrain where it can use its jump jets to offset its modest speed.
Con: While this mech can impersonate a heavy mech design and has comperable firepower to some it cannot do so for very long. This mech performs poorly on an open battlefield as it is slow and easy to hit.



Medium mech basic concepts.

Medium mechs are the most common, they are cheap like light mechs but dont die so easy, so they tend to stick around. Medium mechs can have speed, agility, armour and firepower even to the very largest guns, they just cannot have them all at once.

Assassin
A very rare design, never manufactured in great numbers and lacking in direction the assassin struggles to find a true role on the battlefield. Perhaps because it doesnt belong there. The Assassin lives up to its name, it is not as straight up fighter but a harasser in this role it has no peer in the early 31st century, unless you count the LAM's. The Assassin's role is in asymmetrical warfare, if T.E.Lawrence was a mechwarrior - this would be his ride.
The assassin is superemely fast with a movement profile of 7/11/7, only just shy of the Spider. However its 10 tons heavier and thus more expensive and has little more firepower. The big difference is that the medium laser and SRM2 match the Spiders firepower, but are supplemented by something none of the other harasser mechs have, an LRM rack.
The Assassin thus enjoys its reputation of being just about the only mech design to match extreme agility with long range. Think about this a moment. You can dance with the Spider, but there is no need to close range like a Spider or Jenner has to. However now hold this thought, first in order to jump about you have to take a penalty to hit, now you want to engage at longer ranges and suffer a second penalty. This comes to the crunch, the assassin is expensive to account for its fast agile long range firepower but one LRM 5 rack alone is not scary and the mech will have difficulty scoring hits without an elite pilot. In the end you need to take the same risks as a Jenner or Spider pilot, and thus begs the question, why not just take a Jenner instead?

Pro: Can't touch this.
Con: Doesnt drop the hammer.

Cicada
Another Spideresque mech. With a movement of 8/12 it is the fastest mech avilable, matched only by the Spider Ostscout and Locust. However it is heavier than any of those designs is no batter ared and doesnt jump. Now admittedly the locust doesnt jump either but that is an entry level mech half its tonnage. To pull off attacks with a cicada you need tyhe terrain and deployment on your side. Its one thing to have a movement raste of 12 but targeting penalty depends on howe far you actually move, not how hot your engine is running, turns detract from this so to throw enemy gunnery off youir cicade needs good open terrain to run about in. it can work but it is all too easy for an opponent to deploy his mechs in such a way as to prevent an effective attack run.

Pro: Has the speed of a Spider.
Con: Has the weapons of a Spider too, also the armour tonnage and doesnt jump.

Clint
The next two mechs are most 'average' lighter medium mechs. With decent but not excessivbe speed, jump jerts and a reasonable amount of firepower. The Clint introduces us to autocannon, while inefficent due to their tonnage autocannon can throw out reasonable firerpower without clocking up much heat. The Clint mounts the AC/5 and two medium lasers which means that even with the default ten heat sinks it can run or jump and fire all its guns while never overheating. In fact the only way to overheat a Clint is to damage its engine core. firepower is not especially potent, but has a good range selection and with the Clints agility this mech can avoid any fight it cannot win.
A common variant of the Clint the -2R upgrades the AC/5 to a monster AC/10 doubling firepower and earning the design respect, this is offset by the removal of the jump jets, a reasonable trade off.

Pro: Realistic firepower for a 40 ton mech, very good speed and agilty without paying for the excessive engine sizes of the Cicade or Assassin.
Con: The AC/5 is too heavy for its output, the AC/10 has limited ammo and the mech pays for its lack of jump jets is an escape is needed.

Hermes II
Very similar to ther Clint. The Hermes II is a house Marik favourite. The only real difference between the two designs is that the Hermes II replaces one medium laser with a flamer. the mechs are different though, it is not an alternate design, just a near identicle loadout.

Pro: Gives the mech a little more versatility with three different weapons options. The Hermes II is a feared infantry killer for this reason.
Con: As for the Clint, but by and large a medium laser is worth more than a flamer.

Whitworth
The poor mans Catapult, or Archer, like the other fire support mechs the Whitworth is a modest speed, respectable armour mech which mounts a pair of LRM racks backed up by an array of medium lasers. Being the baby of the three the Whitworth only has two LRM10's but with a reasonable ammo capacity for a protracted fight (12 shots per launcher). The Whitworth lacks any additional heat sinks so it cannot fire its lasers in conjunction with its missiles or vice versa. However this is a common feature of all such mechs and not considered a disadvantage of the design as LRM's carry a signficantly punitive short ranged penalty so there is little point in attempting to fire all weapons together.
As the Whitworth is just a scaled down Archer or Catapult performing the same role, is reasonably survivable but not expected to holt the line; it would not disgrace any fire lance - even in an assault regiment.

Pro: Solid design with decent firepower. A team player never to be turned away from anything other than a dedicated fast scout company.
Con: Very poor speed for a mech of its size, can be easy prey to a heavier (and faster!) mech if caught alone.

Vindicator
The quintescential Capellan design, the Vindicator is an attempt to build a one size fits all mech capable of performing pretty much any role. While seen by some as mediocre the Vindicator succeeds at its job. The only role it cannot fulfil is that of fast scout, and the CapCon is not short of Stingers and Locusts for that job. This also means the efficient 45 tons mech can capitalise by taking a modest engine. Nine tons of armour is respectable for a medium, with notably decent rear armour - good for a running battle. The array of a weapons: a PPC, a light LRM rack and two secondary lasers offers a modest firepower output at all ranges. This mech also jumps.
The Vindicator excells at nothing but this is not its role, the Vindicator can be put anywhere, except in a scout role as formentioned and is used as a stopgap for a missing mech in any lance. For this reason a Capellan battallion might find a Vindicator in a garrison, fire, command or H.Q. lance, as and where needed. A dedicated mech would be better, but a Vindicator is much better than the wrong mech. To see the strtength of ther Vindicator you have to understand its role it can be easily outgunned at any ranged bracket by a dedicated design and cannot outrun any mech it cannot outfight. However this is the T-34 of mechs, no Vindicator is designed to fight alone and a full lance of Vindicators working in unison can do every job well.

Pro: Good supplementary firepower at all range brackets. Works well with others of its own kind.
Con: Easy prey if unsupported.

Enforcer
You could call this the Davion answer to the Vindicator, though it predates it. Slightly heavier but of otherwise similar profile in mobility agility and armour. The Enforcer has what the Vindicator lacks, a strong pivotal role. The Federated Suns is not short of assets to use the right tool for ther right job and the Enforcer fits this bill as the principle Davion linefighter. The Enforcer avoids the plethora of dissonant weapons for two simple and effective guns, a large laser and an Ac10. Plus an ity bitty small laser as an afterthought. The two guns (ignore the third) are good for hitting medium range targets with heavy damage, twice. It really doesnt do anything else nor does it need to even assault mechs need to think hard before trying to close with Enforcers.

Pro: This is the Davion Enforcer, and it does exactly what it says on the tin.
Con: While firepower is good it is too slow to dictate a fight by itself. Vulnerable to fast harassers and LRM 'missile boats'.

Hunchback
Here we come to the BIG GUN. Whole three other mechs also carry the potent Ac20 and one of those jumps all three are assault mechs and none are any faster than the Hunchback. At 50tons rather than 80+ there is little reason not to put your faith in this mech to bring the mighty AC/20 to bear.
The Hunchback is a 50 tonner with decent armour but no jump ability and little in the way of secondary weapons. its only job is to get the BFG in range and do some damage. In this role it is extraordinarily successful and the Hunchback design has proliferated throughout the Successor states, everyone wants them noone wants to be in front of them. The secondary lasers have no better range and exist solely as bonus firepower alongside the cannon and for the risky range 7-9 shots you dont want to waste ammo on. However the total lack of firepower beyond range nine plus the reputation of this mech means that many Hunchbacks are targetted and fall before firing a shot. A Hunchback may be brutal, but to survive it must also be subtle, this is not a straight forward linefighter but a reserrve to bring in to finish off a pinned enemy or to hold in ambush.

Pro: 20 points of damage per hit....
Con: Slow/average speed and no firepower beyond speed 9 maximum or 7 effective range.

Trebuchet
A fire support mech in the same role of a Whitworth and co; with two LRM racks backed up by medium lasers. However the Trebuchet differs from the family of fire support mechs in two respects. First the Trebuchet is faster, second it has limited ammo capacity, and without redress in any of the modifications. The Trebuchet enjoysd two LRM15 racks similar in output to the much heavier Catapult however due to its good heat sinks and mobility of 5/8/5 it is encouraged to use the Trebuchet in more aggressive roles than the usual fire support mechs. Also the three medium lasers and the two missile racks can be fire together and still not incur a noticable heat penalty, though circumstances to warrant an alpha strike with this mech would be difficult to engineer, best with a steady shot at ranges 5-9 against a slow moving target.

Pro: Two LRM15's and jump 5, a theoretically potent alpha strike capable mech.
Con: Difficult to use properly, this mech leaves you with the feeling it is capable of so much more than you can coax out of it.

Dervish
Similar to the Trebuchet in that is offers pairs of LRM racks in a non fire support role. Ther Dervish is also similart in that it offers good mobility and a selection of weapons accross the range brackets which unfortunately do not support each other well except by exclusion. However the Dervish does not 'waste' tonnage on heat sinks to attempt to fire incompatible weapons together and only has the basic ten. This gives it enough to fire both LRM10 racks or all its short ranged weapons all the time when standing still, or most of the time when jumping about. This mech cannot alpha strike. The Dervish however has weak armour and must be quick to recognise when it is time to retire from a fight.

Pro: The average mech. Average firepower at all ranges, medium armour and medium mobility, the Dervish can fit in anywhere.
Con: No real disadvantage, limited heat sinks prevent the pilot from attempting feats the mech is otherwise not deisgned to accomplish.


Heavy mech basic concepts.
Heavy mechs are as big as they get before mechs get too big that they must either reduce speed to a crawl or be converted into walking engines. While 55 tons is the true optimal tonnage it is the heavy mechs particualry the heavy 65-75 tonners who rule the battlefield, when the assault mechs are not looking that is.

Dragon
The other signiture kuritas mech. Like the Panther house kurita controls the only factory and it is so well protected there is little anyone can do to stop production. In the case of the Dragon because all com,p[oents of this mech are assembled on Luthien, the Draconis Combine's capital. Also like the Panther the DCMS likes to field lots od Drafgons together, something as whole units.
Now for the downside, this is not a good idea. While the Panther is efficient but slow the dragon is inefficient and reasobably fast, or more to ther point unreasonably fast with its rating 300 engine. After asll if speed was dropped wo the more normal 4/6 for a heavy mech 7.5 tons could be saved for use on armaments.
This is compounded by not equipping the mech with jump jets to capitalise on its speed and the inclusion of the lacklustre Ac/5 as main armament. While such a gun is escusable on the Clint or hermes II the Dragon pays too much for its tonnage to waste eight tons on a gun with not more pentrative power than a medium laser. The Dragon also mounts an LRM10 as its other main weapon and two medium lasers. Note here that one of the medium lasers is rearward firing, the first encountered so far. While rear weapons are a valuable bonus they are of most value to slow assault mechs, not a medium/heavy with a 5/8 speed profile.
there a\re some good points though. Armour is good with far more rear armour than most so this mech can get in close and stay for a fight, though why you would want to witgh the two primary weapons being what they are is another matter. more poiniently the Dragomn is rare in that it encloses ample ammo for each weapon with 24 salvos for the missile launcher and 40 for the autocannon. this is far more than most mechs carry and frankly more than a mech would need in the field. This plus the speed and all round armour leads us to believe the Dragon is a field mech designed for extended periods without support, first in and last out. all this makes sense as the Dragon is a heavy hit and run design, a 60 ton mech performing ac skirmishers role. This makes sense in the background, but does not work well on the tabletop. All in all this is a mech that does not deliver.
However all is not lost, the Dragon is a dead design, by the fourth succession war it was already being replaced by the identicle looking Grand Dragon. This mech replaces the Ac/5 with a PPC, boosting its firepower considerably though giving the mech some heat management difficulties.

Pro: Large ammo bins means there is room to include specialised ammo. can hit and run without tiring or overheating.
Con: A 60ton mech that hits little harder than a Clint is slower and doesnt jump.

Quickdraw
Again this mech mounts a rating 300 engine as does ther Dragon. The engine accounts for a third of the tonnage of the mech on its own. However with the Quickdraw this is not considered a disadvantage, because the Quickdraw jumps. Jump capable heavy mechs are rare and most are slow. This one is not. Armament is similar to most harasser mechs SRM's, medium lasers and the treat for heasvy harasser units an LRM rack. The Quickdraw is the Assasssins elder uglier brother and is much better at the job. like the Sragon the Quickdraw has rear mounted lasers and heavier than usual rear armour but provides more laser coverage giving the mech the ability to deal with any lighter mech that tries to turn the tables on it.
for this reason the Quickdraw has a reputation of a hunter of harasser mechs, if they outmanoeuver one and rear strike they face laser firepower and armour as good as their own, if the Quickdraw gains the initiative it can close with more lasers and an SRM salvo, at long range the Quickdraw sports an LRM10, a weapon more than capable of crippling most light mechs.
Against heavier opponents the Quickdraw fares little better, the Jenner still has more short range forward firepower, but it handles no worse excepting only the top edge of speed.

Pro: Modest but sufficient armour and firepower at all ranges, not neglecting the rear arc. Excellent agility for its size.
Con: Lacks the supreme speed of a heavy harasser unit. However for that you will need to wait until XL engines are available. The damage curve is little better than a light mech.

Catapult
A firm favourite of the Capellans, the Catapult is known for its many many design variants. The defaoult loadout is a standard fire support mech, 4/6 engine reasonable armour and two missile racks backed up by medium lasers. The Catapult differs in that it jumps. This mech can be used in one of two ways, as an all rounder or as a dedicated fire support mech. the default catapult 1C is an all rounder with four medium lasers to back up the LRM racks. Do not make this mistake of thinking this a 'helpless' artillery piece to close with and destroy. This is a 65ton bruiser with decent armour jump jets and four close in weapons systems, the ubiquitous medium lasers. In fact the short ranged fire output exheeds the long range fire output in many respects. This mech has very limited ammo capacity with only eight shots per launcher, in this respect the Catapult is a tactical fire support mech of limited combat duration which swirtches roles as battle progresses to a short range backup infighter. a good choice for a firepower mech in a lance or stand alone company, less effective in larger formations.
However variants exist that upgrade the amount of ammo available, or even the launcher themselves to LRM/20's both at the expence of secondary weaponry. When modified this way the catpult is a fire support mech, pure and only, and is a helpless artillery piece up close.

Pro: Good asll rounder with no real downsides, fearsome firepower at all ranges.
Con: Limited ammo capacity.

JagerMech
Well put it this way, the Jagermech has a huge tonnage allocated to weapons. However it pays for this by having a ridiculously poor armour cover, similar to a light mech half its tonnage and wastes most of the weapons tonnage on largely useless light autocannon.
The only thing good to say about the Jagermech is that it has the opportunity to inflict damage at extreme range and can work well as a vehicle killer immobilisinh heavy tanks with track hits at long range and nabbing swift hovercraft with its long short range bracket. Against mechs though the Jagermech has problems. Two AC/5's offer poor firepower, the two AC/2's on the other hand are a joke. The fact that the mech hasd sufficient ammo to last a long battle is also not relevant as its abysmal armour rating will not permit it to stand up to enemy fire for any length of time.
In fact a Jagermech is prey to any faster mech even lights like the spider who can close to point blank range and engage with equal firepower (the Jagermech has two medium lasers) equal endurance but from a far more agile platform.

Pros: Looks good.
Cons: Everything else.

Grasshopper
The heaviest of the jump capable mechs available in the boxset, the Grasshopper is a beast. the Grasshopper is a mostly laser armed mech of limited speed offset by its jumping ability. Five tons heravier than the atapult and with similar agility the Grasshopper profits by tradeing off the heavy missile racks for a large laser and enough heat sinks to fire all weapons continually. ther Grasshopper also does not lack for armour with a very respectable thirteen tons with ggood all round coverage.
the Grasshopper is a duellist suited to a mobile fight at all ranges with a marked preference for the close in fight. The mech does mount an LRM rack, on the head of all places, however this is mostly for the benefit of the trickshot. The real power comes from five forward mounted lasers including one large laser. The Grasshopper can run and fire all its energy weapons and remain heat neutral, it can jump, alpha strike and still not incur a heat penalty from a cool start. This is an impressive advantage as unlike most designs listed so far its long range firepower directly supplements the short range firepower and can be fired together without wastage.


Assault mech basic concepts.
Assault mechs are reeally in two categories due the the engine considerations. Those that move at speed 3/5 and those that move at speed 4/6 or faster. Engines weigh so much that they can often amount to over half the mass of the mech, one such mech is so overengined that it can only mount light weaponry despite its enormous tonnage, others are more balanced. In any event we will refer to these mechsd as (relatively) fast assault mechs. The one advantage 'faster' assault mechs have is that they are far more likely to be able to get into close combat, in fact many such mechs are better off in melee combat than Heavy assault mechs are the kings of the battlefield, they move 3/5 without exception and mount more weaponry than any other mech. I mean what I say: Kings not queens, queens can go anywhere kings plod along one space at a time.

Awesome
A heavy assault mech and one of the best. Like all heavy assault mechs the awesome survives through its enormous firepower at range and its heavy armour. the Awesome mounts three PPCs and suffient heat sinks it can fire all of them every other turn, cycling one off in between to cool down. While the awesome does have a small laser as a secondary close in weapon it is no deterent, if faced with a close enemy an awesome should readjust its sights and fire anyway, even at point blank range the firepower penalties are better than a long range shot and at range 2 the chances to hit are the same as a medium range target.

Pro: Impressive firepower, range and armour. Does not overheat easily.
Con: Poor accuracy at short range, very slow.

Zeus
A 'faster' assault unit. The Zeus has a large array of weapons and the heat sinks to fire all the front arc weapons together. The three main weapons the missile rack, large laser and AC/5 are all long range weapons, the Zeus can throw down a moderate amount of energy, missile and ballistic weapons down range at the same distant target which should make interesting effects to say the least. while this is no real substitute for an Awesomes three PPC's the Zeus has advantages of its own, the weapons curve does not deteriorate as badly at short range especially as the medium laser can come into play to offset the LRM's. Furthermore the Zeus mounts a rear mounted laser and is faster.
If the Zeus has a downside, other than its price, it is that it lacks the heavy themed firepower of other assault mechs; it has no monster autocannon, it lacks multiple heavy energy weapons. Its firepower is by no means poor but lacks the magic of other assault mechs.

Pro: Good weapons coverage at every range, excellent armour and acceptable mobility.
Con: No real downside, modest firepower for a mech of its size.

Cyclops
As a 'faster' assault mech her Cyclops is a slightly lighter faster variant of the Atlas. It has the AC/20, the LRM launcher SRM launcher and medium lasers profiles are faily similar at first value, and it doesnt suffer from the speed penalty. However there are significant differences, for a start while 4/6 is faster in the case of an mech with an AC/20 it is by no means fast and the missile rack is insufficiently scary in the likelyhood that the Cyclops fails to get in close. This is only the beginning of the problems, while having four tons of AC/20 ammo is a welcome advantage - most designs run out of ammo quickly - the ammo is spread about the torso locations. Furthermore while the torso armour is acceptable the arms are weakly protected and damage easily transfers through to the torso with the possibility of causing a catestrophic ammo explosion. While this is a risk for many mechs the Cycvlops is especially vulnerable.
The Cylops has limited heat sinks, as unlike other autocannon the AC/20 has a large heat output thus it is insufficient to run all the secondary weapons and the heavy autocannon at the same time especially as the Cyclops often has to run to obtain a decent firing range.
On aside, the Cyclops is an odd design because for a number of reasons it is very cheap in terms of Battle Value. the orginal 3025 Cyclops has a lower BV than refited medium designs, let alone heavy or assault mechs, it is even cheaper thasn most 3025 era heavy mechs. Yet for this you get a 90 ton assault mech with a big gun! Note that this advantage does not carry on into its c-bill cost, which is excessive but it does mean the cyclops is a popular choice in points value based games.

Pro: An AC/20 with double the normal ammo capacity, reasonable secondary weapon firepower. Dirt cheap in BV.
Con: Vulnerable weakspots, very limited long range firepower and poor heat management.

Banshee
At 95tons the Banshee should never have been given an engine as large as it has. This was rectificed with the Banshee-S as marginally slower but heavily upgunned variant. However the oringal banshee is what is on offer here. The Banshee for all its faults does have decent armour and enough heat sinks to fire all its guns together. The Banshee has no short range weaponry to speak of unlike the Cyclops but it doesnt really need any. The close range weapons of a Banshee are its fists and feet. A 95 ton mech will bully just about anything in close combat.

Pro: Well armoured but lacklustre and undergunned, the Banshee-E is a poor design. However the Banshee-S is possibly the best mech in the Inner Sphere of the era.
Con: Inefficient monster.

Atlas
Now we get to the big boy of 3025 the mighty Atlas. Mounting the heaviest armour the laergest autocannon, the largest long range and short range missile launchers and an array of secondary lasers. The Atlas has no real weaknesses, the LRM20 provides good long range firepower, the rear mounted lasers and decent rear armour provide good protection against harasser mechs and if anything crosses its front arc in short range will not last long. it can fire all these weapons while running without concern. Furthermore its fists strike as PPC's and its feet kick as a heavy autocannon.
There are some problems, despite the raw power of the Atlas and its ability to run constantly an enemy can still realistically remain outside the lethal range of the Atlas. Furthermore the two tons of ammo for the LRM launcher, while a decent tonnage of ammo for a missile weapon by any regards is insufficient to protect the Atlas if an enemy is determined to engage it at long range with hit and run tactics. For this reason, amongst others every Atlas requires close support, however this is not an issue. The Atlas is a precious precious mech, not to be risked lightly and should never be left alone.

Pro: It's the Atlas! AC/20 and LRM/20 and kick/20.
Con: I suppose its fairly slow, this matters when the LRM runs out.

wow thats a big list

All 24 'Mechs in the Intro Box.

Wait until you see the mind-boggling list of EVERY canon 'Mechs variant. We should be at about 2000 or so now.

That doesn't include vehicles, infantry, AeroFighters, DropShips, WarShips...

The old Force Faction Table pdf weighs in at 121 pages!

And it's out of date and they're updating it still. Big project. Should hopefully be very cool when it comes out.

How much of the following are included in BT?

1) Screaming
2) Pointing
3) Baldness (In the Grim Darkness of the far future, there is only Alopecia!)
4) SKULLZ!

I provide you with:

PRECENTOR PANTSLESS!!!!!!!!!!

That's about as close as you get to pointing, screaming bald men. And skulls show up, usually on pirate units (ARR!).

Well I'm glad I got into this game. Now I need to convence my friends to play it.....

Well, the Atlas has a skull like head and there's of course the SKULL MECH!!!! http://www.camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=91

More 'Punisher', less 'Skull', for my tastes. Nevertheless, the Ursus is a pretty good 'Mech, and if you did see a giant walking skull coming towards you you'd be pretty worried!

It might be my age but I dont like include much beyond 3050 and try to stick to 3025-3026 for spheroid factions, plus refits. I never liked 2750 much either.

Frankly the vast majority of later designs just look crap, with a few notable exceptions. Give me 3025 or Clan invasion force anyday.

Orlanth wrote:It might be my age but I dont like include much beyond 3050 and try to stick to 3025-3026 for spheroid factions, plus refits. I never liked 2750 much either.

Frankly the vast majority of later designs just look crap, with a few notable exceptions. Give me 3025 or Clan invasion force anyday.

Nothing wrong with that! I love a good 3025 game. Most fun there is in Battletech.

clan invasion looks good.

I like 3025/Clan Invasion. Those are the mechs I know and love...Especially the old Unseen *pouts*

Clan Invasion era can get a little unbalanced. It's better if you want to play Clan vs. Inner Sphere to play either the Civil War or Jihad eras.

Although I love Btech, I refuse wholeheartedly to play/acknowledge the Civil War and Jihad Eras.


Also, I wish I could find some other people besides my friends in this city that played some Btech.

Where are you in Oklahoma?

Mattlov wrote:Where are you in Oklahoma?

Oklahoma City.

As are all of my friends that play Btech.


Right now, we're currently talking about starting a campaign. If we can just get a workable economy.

Rmemeber if you play on mapsheets you don't NEED any minis. Battletech is NOT a WYSIWYG game, anything you can pu ton the mapsheet that is identifiable and has a facing is good enough.

sqir666 wrote:Although I love Btech, I refuse wholeheartedly to play/acknowledge the Civil War and Jihad Eras.

Ditto here. 3055 I can deal with...Anything after that, bah. I don't even like heavy lasers/pseudo-mecha/MRM's, etc...

skyth wrote:

sqir666 wrote:Although I love Btech, I refuse wholeheartedly to play/acknowledge the Civil War and Jihad Eras.

Ditto here. 3055 I can deal with...Anything after that, bah. I don't even like heavy lasers/pseudo-mecha/MRM's, etc...

That's pretty much I don't like those Eras. The other reason why I don't like those Eras, please read the fiction for those Eras and then please tell me what happened to the Clans.

Because everytime I read the fiction for the Civil War/Jihad Eras, I always ask myself these important questions; why aren't the Clans restarting the invasion when the truce ends?Also, why did they just disappear from the Univerese?

Though, maybe that's just me.

sqir666 wrote:
Because everytime I read the fiction for the Civil War/Jihad Eras, I always ask myself these important questions; why aren't the Clans restarting the invasion when the truce ends?Also, why did they just disappear from the Univerese?

Though, maybe that's just me.

The Great Refusal binds them to the non-invasion (except for the Wolves) set in the terms of those engagements. Since they lost, they are honor bound to agree to it.

Not reading the Jihad era you are missing out on the beatdown the Clans are giving to the Word of Blake AND each other.

I like the clans. Aslo, I'm poasting.

H.B.M.C. wrote:BattleTech is a game written by people who care about making a good game.

40K is a game written by people who care about selling models.

QFT, except that it might be said that 40k "is a game written by people who care about selling good models."

In regards to a page 2 post about the Dragon Fire mech......

Say what?!!!

And here I thought my universe got skewed with dickgirls, now there's dickmechs!!

They probably have their own share of fans though.

BAWTRM wrote:In regards to a page 2 post about the Dragon Fire mech......

Say what?!!!

And here I thought my universe got skewed with dickgirls, now there's dickmechs!!

They probably have their own share of fans though.

Yeah, that could have been drawn/sculpted better. But hey, it is still a great 'Mech.

Hmm referring to a post in this thread...
Why are so many people actually so sceptic/anti Clan. i love the Clans myself.

At least when they first premiered it was a really bad example of how to balance a game. The Clan tech was all twice as good as Inner Sphere stuff, and the common system for balancing games in those days was pure tonnage, so the clan rules were kind of broken.

Aah that can be. I am just looking at them from a fluff perspective. I liked the concept behind them.

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Aah that can be. I am just looking at them from a fluff perspective. I liked the concept behind them.

I don't mind the Clans, but I don't think a player should learn how to play using them.

I find 3025 games far more entertaining since you have to use more tactics, and can't lean on the technology crutch to get you through combat. Clan vs. Clan combat tends to be very boring to me.

Hmmm still if i'd get into Battletech, it's the Clans i'd be most interested in.
Bar House Kurita, which was the pseudo oriental faction if memory serves me right?

Edit: Looked at the mini's... they are truly ugly. Though one can't complain too much given the price.

Can i use paypal to order them and how pricey would it be to get the starterbox and rulebook over here?

Also how difficult is it to get into for newcomers?

Buy a starter box. That is all you need to start playing.

The starter minis are not great, but they are cheap.

After a few games, get Total Warfare (the main rulebook). It looks massive and intimidating, but you will probably never use 80% of the rules in there unless you like a real combined arms feel to your games.

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Hmmm still if i'd get into Battletech, it's the Clans i'd be most interested in.
Bar House Kurita, which was the pseudo oriental faction if memory serves me right?

They are the pseudo-Japanese house.

There is also house Liao, which is the pseudo-Chinese house.

Yap was thinking about the Japanese ones.
^^;

Well i'm heavily considering giving it a try with Summer coming -> hence free time after summerjob.

I love the Clans - Jade Falcon were my first faction and no matter my loyalty to House Davion, and my love of the Bears and the Draconis Combine, the Falcons are my favs.

But as Mattlov said, I wouldn't try and learn the game using Clan 'Mechs. I cut my teeth on standard 3025 games as it teaches you to appreciate heat, various weapon types, and what speed and armour mean. Once you've got that in the bag, then you can bring the Clans into it, but expect to be shocked - they're hugely powerful and will cut 3025 forces to ribbons if you're not careful about balancing the scenarios.

I do like Clan v Clan engagements though, as they tend to be the most bloody and destructive of the lot (other than Solaris Brawls... those games are great!).

Aah yes. The arena fights! Those were fun in that Mechwarrior game.

Which Mechwarrior game? The Solaris games featured in more than one IIRC

Aah. Mercenaries. Regretfully it's the only Mechwarrior game i ever got my hands on. Loved it.

Though i remember playing a Mechwarrior game on Playstation a very very long time ago too. It of course did not have the arena and was quite limited in options.

You mean Mech4:Mercs? Then yes, the Solaris matches in that were loads of fun. The Solaris Map Pack for BTech comes with the maps that those missions are based on, so you can play in the Steiner Colusiem and the Jungle and the Factory. The Factory is one of the most challenging areas to play in. Had a few great games there.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love the Clans - Jade Falcon were my first faction and no matter my loyalty to House Davion, and my love of the Bears and the Draconis Combine, the Falcons are my favs.

Seyla, except for the bit about loving the Bears.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But as Mattlov said, I wouldn't try and learn the game using Clan 'Mechs. I cut my teeth on standard 3025 games as it teaches you to appreciate heat, various weapon types, and what speed and armour mean. Once you've got that in the bag, then you can bring the Clans into it, but expect to be shocked - they're hugely powerful and will cut 3025 forces to ribbons if you're not careful about balancing the scenarios.

To the reader: Actually 3050 vs 3025 without upgrades is about the best game you can get. Start with 3025 get used to the technology then upgrade to lobsidedly with one player using clan forces and the other unupgrades IS. Such fights do occur and because of clan philosophy of warfare are not so much of a push over because the clans reduce their forces accordingly because of their honour code which forces them to match to the rough strength of an opponent in a bidding system.

3025 vs 3050 should be balanced at roughly a star vs a company. This is good as you get to see first hand the relative power of upgraded equipment and also have the closest thing to dispasrate army lists without diversifying into mechs vs vehicles. This fight can also be arranged between the 3025 boxset minis and a proportion of the upcoming 3050 boxset minis.


In any event the biggest shock in Battletech, particularly for a 40k player, and particularly one who thinks as most Dakkaites do is that there is an expectation to take the rough with the smooth, the gun thats 'not worth it' gets to be platyed rather than shelved. A good Battltech player will from timwe to time have to draw a breath and place a crap mech on their side of the table when they have better to play with and can equally afford. If you posted a 40K army list for review and gave enough of your IG grenade launchers you would get rounded on for building a crap list. 'Look at the poor stats of the gun', you need meltas or flamers every time, some will call for plasma. Nearly all will agree that grenades belong in the bin.
With Battletech many of the guns are out and out inferior to others of the same tech level, but do you swap out. No, because it would destroy the internal background balanace of the game.
Be prepared to look at some designs and wonder why they did this and that, and learn to love and hate some combinations. Battletech is about building believable desgins, and that means that design flaws are built in too, and false economies, just like in real military vehicles today.

I'm about as competitive as a plushie :p
So i don't mind that.I prefer fluffyness in all things and a good story with an edge/air of realism (without going overboard).

Orlanth wrote:
With Battletech many of the guns are out and out inferior to others of the same tech level, but do you swap out. No, because it would destroy the internal background balanace of the game.
Be prepared to look at some designs and wonder why they did this and that, and learn to love and hate some combinations. Battletech is about building believable desgins, and that means that design flaws are built in too, and false economies, just like in real military vehicles today.

But it is also a great time to beat people using that "inferior" stuff. Very few weapons in Battletech are truly bad, you can always find some use for most of them. Just finding that particular use can be a challenge.

Even small lasers have a use - that 1 heat can take you to 9 when you've got DHS, activating TSM. Very useful.

MRM10's are junk though. And LB-2X's.

Small lasers and machine guns are deceptively useful, but only if you take lots of them, most mechs with them only have one, or two in the case of machine guns. Get up to the target in a fast mech and blaze away. Some Locust designs have four small lasers and cause damage to the extent that opponents no longer laugh at them.

The trouble was that unless you played the rule by which machine gun ammo didnt cause ammo explosions they were nearly alwaysd far more trouble than they were worth. You had a weapon that could do 2 pts of damage occassionally to a target at very short range, or 400pts to you. Not good really.

Never heard of that optional rule.

skyth wrote:Never heard of that optional rule.

I think it was Mechforce UK, anyway its that or short load your ammo bins. You wont get more than four or five salvos per MG anyway. Its assinine carrying that much ammo.

Yeah, it always amazed me how much ammo you have to carry for MG's.

Granted, I had one mech I designed for cityfightng...60 tonner called the Repressor...10 Machine Guns on it.

10 Machine Guns? Is that all?

This was a level 1 mech. Bringing up a clan mech doesn't help

That Clan 'Mech would win too.

But look at its damage for a second. Machine Guns aren't very scary - we know that - but 12 of them do 24 damage, paired with a further 14 from the ER Meds and another 5 from the ER Small. Now swap the Lasers for Heavy Lasers. Sure, the 'Mechs going to shut down, but its target will be very dead. Rear armour won't handle that.

I've found mechs like that are a crit machine also...

And very good in mutli-player brawls with Light 'Mechs. Dart around drilling things, then run away for a while, then run back. Meanwhile everyone fights each other, allowing you to get the crit-kills once their armour is gone!

Big news!!!

I saw that and did a happy dance

This is an excellent thread.

I've been wanting to get in to Battletech for a long time.

I recently moved and one of the first things I did was seek out a new LGS and lo and behold he had the Classic Battletech Introductory Starter Box! I purchased quickly.

I have more tactical combat board games than I can remember, but Battletech seems really great. But I'm a sucker for games where units have their own sheets with different weapon readouts, armor, etc.

Well i joined in to.
Put in an order for the starter and some other things.
So i'm eager to try out the system.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Big news!!!

Frick-Ing-Awe-Some!

Does this mean they will bring back the minis? OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG.

I'm actually surprised at how happy this news makes me feel. I almost don't feel cynical at the moment.

More good news:

More good news:

BattleTech Wins Origins Award 29 June 2009

Catalyst Game Labs is pleased to announce that the Origins Award for Best Miniatures Rules was awarded to BattleTech's Tactical Operations (the Advanced Planetary Conquest Rules).

"It's fantastic to win this award," said Randall N. Bills, Managing Line Developer for Catalyst Game Labs. "There was some really heavy hitters in the category this year, including Warmachine...and I love the stuff Privateer press publishes. Great stuff. It's also great to realize that BattleTech has won Best Miniatures Rules 2 years running. For a 25-year-old game that's a great testimony to the community. Thanks to all those that voted for Tactical Operations!"

Catalyst Game Labs would like to congratulate all the Origins Award winners, as well as all those nominated. Thanks for creating great, fun games for us to play!

Seems like BTech 25th is proving to be quite a good one!!!

House Kerensky approves this message...

I hear Iron Wind works as we speak...

I just ordered a starter box and bought four warhammers (the store had three kindsvariants, one of which could be built as either of two variant). I'm just gonna field them as plain old 3025 non-variant warhammers anyway. I'm planning to get a Thunderbolt and three Archers for a fire lance eventually.

One thing I will say about getting multiples of the same 'Mech is that, unlike Citadel plastic kits, there aren't a lot of options when it comes to making IWM 'Mechs. There are two different Archer models, and the only real choice you have in their construction is how they are waving their arms around. The legs and torsos are set. Same applies the Warhammer, but there are at least 3 different versions of that. It also makes them difficult to tell them apart unless you go and paint each one a different colour.

Plus with several thousand 'Mech variants out there, to me it makes little sense to pick only a few and just take loads and loads of them.

Also, palaeomerus, when you say 3025 Warhammer, keep in mind that even 3025 there were still 4 different variants of the machine, so don't think that they have to all be the same.

I didn't say "3025 Warhammer".

I said "" I'm just gonna field them as plain old 3025 non-variant warhammers anyway. " Non-variant means non variant, as in 2 PPCs, 2 medium lasers, 2 small lasers, 2 MG's, and an SRM 6.

I rather like the idea of lances containing similar mechs especially when those mechs are all rounders. How many different mech models there are out there doesn't really enter into it much for me. I'm thinking about the old box set days before the Star League Data Core tech readout and the 3050 readout happened.

I originally played the game out of a box set with identical (four of each) paper counter mechs that you folded and stufferd into plastic clips. I often use note cards and counters for heat and speed and such when playing table top or board games anyway. Telling different models of the same type of mech apart really isn't a big deal.

The Archers I plan to get are the "plain old" version of the (reseen) archers. The 6W variant just looks fugly to me. Not that I wouldn't consider using the original "Destroid Spartan" version if I could find three of them. I'd kind of like the missle bays closed so I may need to get out the green stuff or even the brown stuff.

I'd use the Tomahawk version of the Warhammer too but I already bought the four I have now and I don't know of where to get any of the old ones without paying the out of print nostalgia collector's item tax.

The 2 Warhammer 8K figures (the one with the streak SRM 4 and the heavy PPC's) comes with fixed legs and waist and have a standing pose.

Both the 4L/9S "combo kit" and the plain old vanilla unseen "warhammer" version I bought do not. You have to fix the seperate legs into the waist and then put the feet into a "shoed" base. It's a bit fiddly but I used folded paper as awedge and rubber bands to get them set in a useful position. The pose looks a bit like running but its not a great pose. It'll do I suppose.

I actually like the look of the new Thunderbolt. I wish I could find some reasonably priced "Soltec Roundfacer" Griffins and "Soltec Blockhead" Wolverines though. Those were among my favorites.

Yeah I've been trying to figure out what mechs to get a warhammer sounds good any suggustens?

Depends what era you play. Many 'Mechs are not available in earlier part of the timeline.

Anything from the 3025 era is good though, because that stuff is still around through Battletech.

The Inner Sphere split is about 25-35-20-10. That is to say, in a force of 100 'Mechs, 25 will be light, 35 will be medium, 20 will be heavy and only 10 will be assault 'Mechs. That is an old standard of how to build a relatively canon weight force. Obviously, some individual units are different (such as the Davion Assault Guards), but it is hard to go wrong with that breakdown.

What's breakdown for Clan units? Is it pretty similar to Inner Sphere units of 100 mechs or are they organized differently at that level as well?

palaeomerus wrote:I said "" I'm just gonna field them as plain old 3025 non-variant warhammers anyway. " Non-variant means non variant, as in 2 PPCs, 2 medium lasers, 2 small lasers, 2 MG's, and an SRM 6.

Any particular reason?

palaeomerus wrote:I rather like the idea of lances containing similar mechs especially when those mechs are all rounders.

Then play Draconis Combine. They're known for doing that - whole companies of the same 'Mech. They do use different variants though.

palaeomerus wrote:How many different mech models there are out there doesn't really enter into it much for me.

I'm looking at it from a practicality standpoint. You go out and buy a Lance of Archers. They all look the same. You then take only one variant. So you've got four 'Mechs that visually look the same, who are all armed in exactly the same way. How do you keep track of which is which during the game aside from either painting them all different colours, or remembering the way you stuck the arms on ("The one with his right arm in the air is the commander, the one with his left arm in the air is the 2IC, the one with both arms in the air is waving them like he just don't care!")

palaeomerus wrote:I'm thinking about the old box set days before the Star League Data Core tech readout and the 3050 readout happened.

Yup. And there were 4 different variants of the Warhammer before that happened. It's not like there was one Warhammer and one Warhammer only and then the Data Core happened and suddenly there were dozens. Some 'Mechs had only one or two variants (Atlas had one I believe, Orion maybe had two) where as some had heaps (Wolverine, Griffon, Warhammer, Marauder, etc.). All of them are pre-Data Core.

palaeomerus wrote:Not that I wouldn't consider using the original "Destroid Spartan" version if I could find three of them.

I can't imagine you'll be waiting too long for that. Iron Wind Metals probably has doing a set of the old original 'Mechs as their first priority now. Expect to see new Unseen Warhammers, Marauders and Archers within the next few months (I hope).

palaeomerus wrote:I'd kind of like the missle bays closed so I may need to get out the green stuff or even the brown stuff.

The model has doors for the missile Launchers that I'm sure could allow you to glue them in the closed position.

palaeomerus wrote:I'd use the Tomahawk version of the Warhammer too but I already bought the four I have now and I don't know of where to get any of the old ones without paying the out of print nostalgia collector's item tax.

As I said, don't worry about it. Unseen minis will be back soon.

palaeomerus wrote:The 2 Warhammer 8K figures (the one with the streak SRM 4 and the heavy PPC's) comes with fixed legs and waist and have a standing pose.

Which is probably due to all the complaints about the other two, which are a nightmare to get together. Who ever thought that having hips, separte legs, but feet moulded to a pseudo-hex base was a good idea needs to be shot.

palaeomerus wrote:I actually like the look of the new Thunderbolt. I wish I could find some reasonably priced "Soltec Roundfacer" Griffins and "Soltec Blockhead" Wolverines though. Those were among my favorites.

New Thunderbolt is a huge improvement over the extra-fugly original one. As for the Griffon and the Wolverine, you'll have 'em soon once IWM makes new ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hordini wrote:What's breakdown for Clan units? Is it pretty similar to Inner Sphere units of 100 mechs or are they organized differently at that level as well?

Very differently:

Inner Sphere:

1 'Mech = 1 'Mech
4 'Mechs = 1 Lance
3 Lances = 1 Company = 12 'Mechs
3 Companies = 1 Battalion = 40 'Mechs (incl. 1 Command Lance)
3 Battalions = 1 Regiment = 124+/- 'Mechs (incl. overall Command Lance, though that can sometimes be a Command Company)

Clan:

1 Point = 1 'Mech (usually - we'll ignore vehicles, infantry and aerospace for this)
5 Points = 1 Star = 5 'Mechs
2 Stars = 1 Binary = 10 'Mechs
3 Stars = 1 Trinary = 15 'Mechs
3-5 Binaries or Trinaries = 1 Cluster = Between 35 'Mechs and 80 'Mechs (incl. Command Star)
3-5 Clusters = 1 Galaxy = Between 110 'Mechs and 405 'Mechs (although it's rare to have a Galaxy that is all 'Mechs)

WHM-6R but I like the clan version alot, mostly infacte because of pulse lasers. I love pulse laser.

The Warhammer IIC is an Clan Assault 'Mech. The regular Warhammer is an Inner Sphere Heavy 'Mech - there is no contest.

Well thats kind of ofbius(?) Clan beats inner sphere every time.

Thanks for the Clan organization info, H.B.M.C., but I was also wondering if there's a normal weight distribution percentage for Clan mech units, like the Inner Sphere's 25-35-20-10 ratio. 25 Light Mechs, 35 Mediums, 20 Heavies, and 10 Assaults. Would the ratio be the same in Clan units?

Actually the Inner Sphere gets more and more exclusive and obnoxiously flawed yet still edge blunting stuff as time goes on. And they also tend to get slightly inferior versions of the formerly exclusive clan stuff including battle armor and targetting computers..

Eventually Word of Blake becomes the big bad guy and they operate their mechs in units of SIX and some of their pilots are cyborgs. They manage to pretty much burn down the whole freaking soap opera and leave things at a second sucession war level only with more surviving tech.

Then "Dark Age" happens and I have no idea what that's about except apparently interstellar communication via HPG just ends, Terra becomes the capitol of a Republic made up of most of those worlds close enough to a Successor state border to fight over, most of the clans just leave, and the Free World's league decides to get back together and be a faction again.

Hordini wrote:Thanks for the Clan organization info, H.B.M.C., but I was also wondering if there's a normal weight distribution percentage for Clan mech units, like the Inner Sphere's 25-35-20-10 ratio. 25 Light Mechs, 35 Mediums, 20 Heavies, and 10 Assaults. Would the ratio be the same in Clan units?

We haven't gotten anything quite as reliable for the Clans, and it can vary wildly between Clans. The Coyotes are known for VERY heavy units, while the Ice Hellions wouldn't touch most assault 'Mechs even if their life depended on it.

Also the clans typically have a strong cultural division between their expeditonary fighters (trueborn mech pilots, elementals, and aerospace pilots + expendable auxilliary units made up of freebirths, dishonored, washouts, old guys) who use the expensive omnimechs and omnifighters, and their garrisoners and reservists ( mostly freebirths because dishonored and old trueborns supposedly deserve better) who use mostly plain mechs and vehicles and serve as the non-armored infantry.

So there might be differing philosophies about heavy versus light even within a single clan.

Generally, Clans field more heavy mechs than anything else. Granted, this can vary between clans, but it's a good standard.

The Clans leave in the Dark Age era? Oo; How so?

We don't know anything about the Clans in the Dark Age era other than:

1. The Ghost Bear Dominion is now the Rassalhague Dominion.
2. Clan Wolf are now the Steel Wolves.
3. Clan Diamond Shark is once again Clan Sea Wolf.
3. The Jade Falcons are still kickin' around.

And... yeah? There's a whole 'War of Reaving' that takes place around the Jihad, but we have no details about what actually happened, only that the Clan homeworlds went 'dark' and no one's heard from them in a while.

H.B.M.C. wrote:We don't know anything about the Clans in the Dark Age era other than:

1. The Ghost Bear Dominion is now the Rassalhague Dominion.
2. Clan Wolf are now the Steel Wolves.
3. Clan Diamond Shark is once again Clan Sea Wolf.
3. The Jade Falcons are still kickin' around.

And... yeah? There's a whole 'War of Reaving' that takes place around the Jihad, but we have no details about what actually happened, only that the Clan homeworlds went 'dark' and no one's heard from them in a while.

A couple corrections there...

The Rasalhague Dominion is a combination of the Clan Ghost Bear and the Free Rasalhague Republic. It is the only nation to have Clanners and Inner Sphere folk living peaceably side by side.

Clan Wolf is the same. The Steel Wolves were an off shoot faction that eventually became 2 mercenary groups, the Wolf Hunters (led by Anastasia Kerensky) and another group I don't remember the neame of.

The Diamond Sharks are again Clan Sea FOX.

Mattlov wrote:

Hordini wrote:Thanks for the Clan organization info, H.B.M.C., but I was also wondering if there's a normal weight distribution percentage for Clan mech units, like the Inner Sphere's 25-35-20-10 ratio. 25 Light Mechs, 35 Mediums, 20 Heavies, and 10 Assaults. Would the ratio be the same in Clan units?

We haven't gotten anything quite as reliable for the Clans, and it can vary wildly between Clans. The Coyotes are known for VERY heavy units, while the Ice Hellions wouldn't touch most assault 'Mechs even if their life depended on it.

The clans tend to have a bigger concentration in the medium and heavy weight classes, a general breakdown I'd say being similar to 10/40/30/10. Several clans have preferences that change this ratio, such as the Coyotes being more into assault class, while the Ice Hellions prefer lights. Otherwise most clans seem to stick primarily to the heavy-medium/light-heavy line.

By the way, though I stuck to it for the sake of comparison, 25/35/20/10 is 90, not 100.

H.B.M.C. wrote:We don't know anything about the Clans in the Dark Age era other than:

1. The Ghost Bear Dominion is now the Rassalhague Dominion.
2. Clan Wolf are now the Steel Wolves.
3. Clan Diamond Shark is once again Clan Sea Wolf.
3. The Jade Falcons are still kickin' around.

And... yeah? There's a whole 'War of Reaving' that takes place around the Jihad, but we have no details about what actually happened, only that the Clan homeworlds went 'dark' and no one's heard from them in a while.

Steel Wolves... that sucks... a lot.
And poor Ghost Bears! :p

Homeworlds? The initial planets they came from? How much contact did the Clans have with those?
And how strong/developped/important were they before this 'War of Reaving' nonsense?

THe Homeworlds are the orginal 5 Pentagon Worlds and the attneding 15 or so planets settled by the Clans after the Exodus and ensuing Exodus Civil War in the late 2700's. Until the Clan Invasion of 3050 the Clans obviously talked to each other quite a bit. It wasn't until the Jihad and the War of Reaving (starting in 3067) that contact diminished between the Invading Clans and the Home Clans.

The Clans were a very important part of the story line, one of the primary focal points since their introduction in 3052. Since then it was the primary goal of most of the Inner Sphere powers to stop them and force them out of Inner Sphere space.

As to how powerful they were, here is a comparison:

In 300 years of the Succession Wars only the most recent (the 4th Succession War) saw any real change from the beginning. It saw significant damage to the Capellan Confederation, which lost more than 100 worlds.

So 300 years saw about 150 planets actually change hands.

FOUR Clans (out of 18) took more than 200 Inner Sphere worlds from three serpate nations in less than 2 years. WHen they attacked, they would literally send 15 to 20 'Mechs with a few squads of Elemental Battle Armor against entire Inner Sphere REGIMENTS.

And win. With almost no losses.

The Clans were THAT badass when they showed up.

In the following years, the Inner Sphere closed the technological gap a bit and losses became less extreme, but the Clans still have better equipment and better warriors.

The Dark Age also has clan Nova Cat who are ruling a chunk of the Draconis Combine as vassals to the Coordinator and their split off group the Spirit Cats who are out helping folks, and looking for some world their Kahn saw in a vision.

And there is a Clan protectorate as well that looks like an ad hoc nation where clanners can live and say "Quiaff without getting beat up in alleys for it.

Smoke Jaguar is thought to have been utterly destroyed after Operation Bulldog.

But there are what...16 clans remaining at the end of the Jihad storyline(Wolverine was destroyed, Widowmaker, Burrock, and Mongoose were absorbed) ?

Dark age only accounts for five of them. (Jade Falcons, Wolf, Ghost Bears, Nova Cats, and Sea Fox) Of those the Jade Falcons are invading to take advantage of the HPG network going down, and the Sea Fox(formerly Diamond Shark) clan are basically are flying around in their giant cargo flotillas selling/trading stuff door to door at the planets they pass and moving freight for customers.

During the 3050 invasion BTW the clans were greatly aided by their Warships, which were rare in the inner sphere, and their omnifighters. Most of their conquests were in the Draconis Combine, the Lyran half of the Federated Commonwealth, and the newly seceded Rasalhague republic.

Fun fact: Rasalhague is a real star system with a traditional Arabic name that means "the face of the snake charmer" just like the Batman villain's name "Ra's Al Gul" means "face of the undead cannibal monster" or as DC comics puts it "head of the demon". Rasalhague is not a made up Scandanavian name that is supposed to sound Swedish or Danish or Norwegian.

Algol means "the demon" and the star was thought to be sort of evil and to preside over bad things when it shines prominently in the night sky. People noticed that it "winked" at them (or dimmed) about everyt three days and that creeped them out so they made up stories about it.

I'm starting to see why so many people are negative about the Dark Age etc.

Currently are the 2 strongest Clans still Jade Falcon and Wolf? I believe they were when i first looked into the Battletech storyline many many many years ago.

Also got confirmation that my Battletech order is underway. So i hope to get it in the coming days.
Huzzaaah!

A lot of negativity towards Dark Age stems from how it was introduced.

BattleTech has thrived on the fact that it's a living, breathing universe where things change and time passes. Unlike 40K, where the doomsday clock is always set at one minute to M.42 and nothing ever changes, BattleTech has changed a lot since it's 3025 roots. The 'current' date in BTech is 3076, so that's 50 years of history that has been played out over the past 25. We've had time to see things develop, characters be introduced, have their stories, and die, factions rise and fall, and major changes to the universe.

Dark Age didn't do that. Dark Age just sprung up out of no where and was forced upon players. One minute we had reached the end of the FedCom Civil War and were awaiting the next step in BTech and then BAM, it's 3130, all your fav characters are either dead or in old folks homes, all the factions are different, there was something called the Jihad, and you just have to accept it. Oh, and BTW, here's a Clicky game for you to play.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the Dark Age storyline - I think it's quite an interesting place and I'm looking forward to the storyline getting there - but it's the method in which it was introduced that alienated so many long-time players. No explanations were given as to what happened, it was just 'this is what is - deal with it!'.

The side effect of all this was that it put a stigma on the Jihad, something that they had planned before FASA decided to shut its doors and Weisman took over. I think the Jihad is a great storyline, and I'm really enjoying it even though I know how it ends. I didn't always think that though. Being one of the many, many BTech fans alienated by Dark Age's introduction, the Jihad was simply a means to a bad end. Jihad automatically leads to Dark Age, Dark Age = bad, therefore Jihad also = bad. Of course, now that we've been given the time to go through this, and have spent the past few years moving from the 3067-3069 mark all the way through to 3076, it's far, far better than I imagined. We're getting to see things develop, rather than just having a massive paradigm shift with no explanation.

Now I don't mind factions changing - in my time the Fed Suns became the Fed Com and then went back to being the Fed Suns, we've seen ComStar split, the FWL disassemble itself, and an entire chunk of the IS get eaten by the Clans - so I don't really mind the 'Steel Wolves' or the change to Sea Fox, the Republic of the Sphere, or all the other Dark Age-y things. As long as we get the time to explore them and their origins, rather than just having everything dumped on us at once, it should be fine.

The question now is what will Catalyst do between the end of the Jihad and the HPG Blackout. The Jihad ends in 3081 (-ish). The Blackout doesn't happen for another 50 years. So what will they do?

Mattlov wrote:FOUR Clans (out of 18) took more than 200 Inner Sphere worlds from three serpate nations in less than 2 years. WHen they attacked, they would literally send 15 to 20 'Mechs with a few squads of Elemental Battle Armor against entire Inner Sphere REGIMENTS.

And win. With almost no losses.

The Clans were THAT badass when they showed up.

That is a bit of a simplification. Let me ask you this: Where did the Clans strike from and where were the bulk of the Inner Sphere's armies? The Clans concentrated force and chewed up and spit out a bunch of worlds that had only been garrisoned against Pidly Periphery Pirates (say that 3 times fast) with rear echelon type folks. Plus, I'm going to echo that the Clan's aerospace assets are what really won it for them.

robertsjf wrote:

Mattlov wrote:FOUR Clans (out of 18) took more than 200 Inner Sphere worlds from three serpate nations in less than 2 years. WHen they attacked, they would literally send 15 to 20 'Mechs with a few squads of Elemental Battle Armor against entire Inner Sphere REGIMENTS.

And win. With almost no losses.

The Clans were THAT badass when they showed up.

That is a bit of a simplification. Let me ask you this: Where did the Clans strike from and where were the bulk of the Inner Sphere's armies? The Clans concentrated force and chewed up and spit out a bunch of worlds that had only been garrisoned against Pidly Periphery Pirates (say that 3 times fast) with rear echelon type folks. Plus, I'm going to echo that the Clan's aerospace assets are what really won it for them.

True, but how often would you take on 5 times your force as the ATTACKER and walk away with a complete victory. Sheer weight of numbers has an advantage unless the opponent is that much better than you. Which the Clans were at the time.

The Clans did not have, nor have they ever had an advantage in Aerospace assets. While they had WarShips, they did not use them because the Inner Sphere didn't have any. In fighter combat the Inner Sphere could hold their own against the Clans because the Inner Sphere held the skill edge there.

Mattlov wrote:While they had WarShips, they did not use them because the Inner Sphere didn't have any.

uh, Turtle Bay?

robertsjf wrote:

Mattlov wrote:While they had WarShips, they did not use them because the Inner Sphere didn't have any.

uh, Turtle Bay?

That was a different reason. The Jags got pissed because the populace wouldn't stop rebelling. The WarShip did not fire on legitimate military targets, it just leveled a city. And that was the only time a WarShip saw combat outside of the death of ilKhan Showers.

Hmm quite interesting.
Though i think i'll focus on the early and the Clan Invasion era. More than enough fluff to explore there before i dip into later eras.

And the good news is Catalyst is about to reveal their new boxed sets - the 25th Anniversary box, which should come with new plastics of all the unseens, and the Clan box, which comes with 15 of the original 16 invasion-era Omni-Mechs.

Those two boxes combined with the standard Intro Box will give you enough 'Mechs to last a long, long time.

Was the clan advantage as described above (I.E. Outnumbered 5-1 when taking a planet) intended to in part represent the mobility advantage an attacker in orbit would have? I.E. the defender has 50 mechs but needs to spread them around several hot-spots, possibly on several continents, so it's not as big a deal for the 10 clan mechs to pick a single critical point to focus on.

I've also assumed that 'conquered' in the BT universe often just means that certain chokepoints are controlled: the capitol, any startports, and similar. There's still going to be a lot of guerilla fighting if the natives are capable.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the good news is Catalyst is about to reveal their new boxed sets - the 25th Anniversary box, which should come with new plastics of all the unseens, and the Clan box, which comes with 15 of the original 16 invasion-era Omni-Mechs.

Those two boxes combined with the standard Intro Box will give you enough 'Mechs to last a long, long time.

Yes sounds great.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the good news is Catalyst is about to reveal their new boxed sets - the 25th Anniversary box, which should come with new plastics of all the unseens, and the Clan box, which comes with 15 of the original 16 invasion-era Omni-Mechs.

Those two boxes combined with the standard Intro Box will give you enough 'Mechs to last a long, long time.

NEW PLASTICS OF THE UNSEEN?!?!

OMG.

Catalyst is bringing Happy back.

That isn't confirmed, but hoped for by a lot of people.

Balance wrote:I've also assumed that 'conquered' in the BT universe often just means that certain chokepoints are controlled: the capitol, any startports, and similar. There's still going to be a lot of guerilla fighting if the natives are capable.

"conquered" meaning all the enemy can scrape together is scarecrow infantry. Guerillas can still strike at softer targets, but with aerospace assets under control it would be difficult to mass enough troops to potentially do any significant damage on a planetary scale....

Balance wrote:Was the clan advantage as described above (I.E. Outnumbered 5-1 when taking a planet) intended to in part represent the mobility advantage an attacker in orbit would have? I.E. the defender has 50 mechs but needs to spread them around several hot-spots, possibly on several continents, so it's not as big a deal for the 10 clan mechs to pick a single critical point to focus on.

Nope. The Clans were really ballsy sons-of-bitches and TOLD the defenders before hand where they were landing, and politely (for a Clanner) asking what the planet was defending with. It is a Clan ritual called batchall designed among the Clans to limit casualties by having a small number of units fight away from an objective for control of it. The Clanners then bid among themselves for the right to take the objective with as little force as possible and still gain victory. Very glorious, honorable, and ballsy. Stopped working as well when the Inner Sphere just lied to them about what was on planet...

So no. They would land, see the Inner Sphere forces and beat the Holy gak out of them. Hard and fast.

I've also assumed that 'conquered' in the BT universe often just means that certain chokepoints are controlled: the capitol, any startports, and similar. There's still going to be a lot of guerilla fighting if the natives are capable.

The people of the Battletech universe are pretty jaded. On some border worlds, they almost don't care how the fight turns out. It is just a change of flags, currency, and government forms. Also, guy with pistol of rifle, even with a dozen of his closest buddies, aren't much of a match against a 'Mech.

Mattlov wrote:

Balance wrote:Was the clan advantage as described above (I.E. Outnumbered 5-1 when taking a planet) intended to in part represent the mobility advantage an attacker in orbit would have? I.E. the defender has 50 mechs but needs to spread them around several hot-spots, possibly on several continents, so it's not as big a deal for the 10 clan mechs to pick a single critical point to focus on.

Nope. The Clans were really ballsy sons-of-bitches and TOLD the defenders before hand where they were landing, and politely (for a Clanner) asking what the planet was defending with. It is a Clan ritual called batchall designed among the Clans to limit casualties by having a small number of units fight away from an objective for control of it. The Clanners then bid among themselves for the right to take the objective with as little force as possible and still gain victory. Very glorious, honorable, and ballsy. Stopped working as well when the Inner Sphere just lied to them about what was on planet...

So no. They would land, see the Inner Sphere forces and beat the Holy gak out of them. Hard and fast.

Huh. I didn't know that... To be honest, that makes the Clans sound a bit 'cheesy as designed' but admittedly the ER weapons were a big advantage.

One thing that has always been jarring about Battletech for me is the idea that a planet can be 'defended' or assaulted by a miniscule number of mechs. No matter how big they are, it's just the ability to actively cover land mass!

I can completely accept that many worlds, specifically border worlds, don't care about changes of allegiance. Very reminiscent of historical periods where allegiances, even religious, would change based on the last army that came through the area, and definitely fits the 'pseudo-feudal' feel of BT. I'm surprised the Clans would get the same effect, as their culture seems much more focused on submitting to rule by the warriors than the IS cultures.

The Clans had a really HOLY CRAP feel to them. Most of the planets taken wanted to fight back, and many did in very small, relatively pointless ways.

It was the WAY the Clans did it. Nobody fought a battle like that. It was silly to CHOOSE face to face assaults as the way of fighting. 'Mechs were too precious to waste like that.

Add to the fact that Elementals scared the bejeesus out of people and you can pacify some people really quickly.

I saw the Elementals mentions elsewhere to. What exactly are those?

Elementals were the original battle armoured infantry units in BTech. Coming in little squads of five and armed with 'Mech scale weapons (the smallest ones - Machine Gun, Flamer, ER Small Lasers and SRM2's) and having enough armour to survive hits from things like Medium Lasers, they became wel known for their swarm and leg attacks, where a squad of them could bring down a 'Mech many times their own weight. They were crazy effective, and as they could be carried into combat via hand-holds on Omni-Mechs, a Clan 'Mech could race in, drop off a Point of Elementals, and then continue fighitng. The Inner Sphere had nothing like them, and regular infantry were just no match for them.

It was a dramatic shift in the way infantry were used in the BattleTech universe and now, nearly 30 years on, everyone has their own form of BattleArmour.

pombe wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the good news is Catalyst is about to reveal their new boxed sets - the 25th Anniversary box, which should come with new plastics of all the unseens, and the Clan box, which comes with 15 of the original 16 invasion-era Omni-Mechs.

Those two boxes combined with the standard Intro Box will give you enough 'Mechs to last a long, long time.

NEW PLASTICS OF THE UNSEEN?!?!

OMG.

Catalyst is bringing Happy back.

This is what happens when the Fans keep a game alive for decades. God I love Battletech...

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It was a dramatic shift in the way infantry were used in the BattleTech universe and now, nearly 30 years on, everyone has their own form of BattleArmour.

But the Elemental is still the gold standard to which all other Battle Armor is judged. It really is an excellent all around design.

Finally my order arrived. The Kurita and Davion minipack, starterbox, Sword and Dragon and the advanced rulebook.
^^; i'll have reading to do! And people to harass with questions on the rules!

Seriously, go to www.classicbattletech.com and get on the forums. You will get a LOT more people answering questions.

Mattlov wrote:Seriously, go to www.classicbattletech.com and get on the forums. You will get a LOT more people answering questions.

It's always nice to get some Battletech action on Dakka though...


Maybe we should try to get some of the CBT.com guys to post here.

Yeah i'm already there, i was semi-joking. ^^
I'm also on the Dutch site of Battletech.

Latest info seems to indicate that the 25th Anniversary box will have the 24 'Mechs from the original Introductory Boxed Set, plus high quality plastic miniatures for four of the Unseen - smart money's on a Warhammer, Battlemaster, Marauder and Phoenix Hawk.

So basically it'll be the starterset with a few extra minis?
Any info on what the Clan Box will have?

Been reading the Quick Start rules and will try the starter scenario tonight with my brother.
The rules all are sensible so far. Though it may take some getting used to. As i'm more accustomed to WH40K, VOID 1.1, Anima Tactics etc which are non hex/non turning around orientated.

Darthvegeta800 wrote:
Any info on what the Clan Box will have?

15 of the original 16 Clan Omnis (no Dasher/Fire Moth) and 5 Points (bases) of Elementals.

Been reading the Quick Start rules and will try the starter scenario tonight with my brother.
The rules all are sensible so far. Though it may take some getting used to. As i'm more accustomed to WH40K, VOID 1.1, Anima Tactics etc which are non hex/non turning around orientated.

Just remember it doesn't take many 'Mechs for a good game. You can have a lot of fun with just a lance (4 'Mechs) on each side.

Yup. Don't plan to use more early on. Heck i may try a few games with just 2-3 on each side until me and my brother master the rules.

2 on 2 is a good game too. I'd recommend staying with the Medium weight stuff to start with. Enjoy balance before moving to ridiculous speed or firepower.

Okies will do! Thanks for the advice.

So the 25th anniversary set, is it just a box of mechs? Or will it also include quickstart rules and maps and stuff?

Hordini wrote:So the 25th anniversary set, is it just a box of mechs? Or will it also include quickstart rules and maps and stuff?

assuming they follow the standard model, it should have maps and rules. The boxed set should be an "Everything you need to start playing" sort of affair.

So maybe it would be better to wait and just get the 25th anniversary box, rather than pick up the current starter box?

Is there any info on when the 25th anniversary and Clan boxes will be released? Sometime this year I guess?

I was told to buy the current one. As the release date may be still quite a while away. And given the price i could just as well pick it up again later for extra mini's.

Well, you buy the boxed sets for the mechs. This current boxed set has 24, which would cost $240.00 for the metal equivalents. Granted, the plastic is a little bendy, but at 1/6th the cost of metal, that's fine. The only reason to wait would be if there was going to be alot of duplication between the mech types, and even then it wouldn't be a tragedy to get multiples of a single mech.

So I think you should go ahead and pick up the current boxed set and enjoy some Btech while waiting for the latest boxed sets to be produced, neither of which have I seen a release date for.

It is probably a safe bet the 25th Anniversary box will come out at GenCon.

I can almost guarantee it will be this year...

I'd get all three:

Current Intro
25th Ann
Clan

You've then got a reinforced Battalion of Inner Sphere 'Mechs (4 Companies + Command Lance), and a full Trinary of Clan 'Mechs (including one Nova of 5 'Mechs and 5 Points of Elementals).

The plastic miniatures aren't the highest quality in the world, but really that doesn't matter. Aside from a few bigger mould lines here and there they look good once painted, and with two of each type you can paint one set one colour and the other set another colour and have two distinct forces. With 67 'Mechs to start with you'll be playing a lot of games before you even think about buying another 'Mech.

As for what scenario to start with, the Introbox's scenario is a good one - Cicada & Enforcer vs Hermes & Hunchback. It's the one I first played and it changed the way I viewed the game completely - I played the side with the Cicada, but thought it was 'crap' because it had low armour and pathetic guns. I quickly learnt what speed in BTech was all about, and the Cicada is now one of my fav 'Mechs. In the Introbox, the Cicada config they give you for the demo scenario is simply the best Cicada variant ever made - decent armour, speedy, and great firepower. You'll respect what it can do by the end.

I remember starting with the 3rd Edition box, in a game that was Wolverine/Stinger vs. Griffin/Wasp.

I have hated the Wolverine since that first game.

What did it do to you?

H.B.M.C. wrote:What did it do to you?

I had the Wolverine.

And it sucked. HARD.

I see this Griffin running around, blasting me with a PPC, and all I got is this dinky AC/5. Sure, if I get close I can do some more damage, but then that damn PPC can't miss!

I know there are other variants. But I never use a Wolverine unless I am forced. In fact, I almost never use the "Classic 55-tonners" because I don't really like any of them.

That's a shame, because there are some very good versions of the Wolverine. Not so much the Shadowhawk or the Griffin, but the Wolverine definitely.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'd get all three:

Current Intro
25th Ann
Clan

You've then got a reinforced Battalion of Inner Sphere 'Mechs (4 Companies + Command Lance), and a full Trinary of Clan 'Mechs (including one Nova of 5 'Mechs and 5 Points of Elementals).

The plastic miniatures aren't the highest quality in the world, but really that doesn't matter. Aside from a few bigger mould lines here and there they look good once painted, and with two of each type you can paint one set one colour and the other set another colour and have two distinct forces. With 67 'Mechs to start with you'll be playing a lot of games before you even think about buying another 'Mech.

As for what scenario to start with, the Introbox's scenario is a good one - Cicada & Enforcer vs Hermes & Hunchback. It's the one I first played and it changed the way I viewed the game completely - I played the side with the Cicada, but thought it was 'crap' because it had low armour and pathetic guns. I quickly learnt what speed in BTech was all about, and the Cicada is now one of my fav 'Mechs. In the Introbox, the Cicada config they give you for the demo scenario is simply the best Cicada variant ever made - decent armour, speedy, and great firepower. You'll respect what it can do by the end.

How is speed best used in this case? It seems good to move to cover, gain a 'hard to hit' bonus etc. But with crap guns... what's the use? Or is it due to good range? (haven't got the sheet with me here or i'd check)

Yesterday i did a one on one. Was hilarious. :p My Hunchback. (i think it was the hunchback -> humanoid one with a heavy las, small las and an autocannon) was pulverized for the most part.
Trying out the rules i ran forth as did my brother but only then i realized the difference in armaments. Exchanging fire my brother quickly gained the upperhand. All my hits were on his torso but he pretty much brought my head to 1 point, destroyed an arm, severely damaged another arm and a leg. Plus left and right torso halves went bye bye too. I backed away and was almost gone from the table while backstepping, when i fired a last shot with my autocannon. Hit the torso again and wrecked his mech! Hilarious.

My impression of the game was good so far i think i'll ask my brother to do do a 2 vs 2 before trying out the extended rules.

Small side question. In Total Warfare, am i correct that the basic rules are also included in it. Basically it has all the advanced rules but also the 'normal ones'?

Darthvegeta800 wrote:How is speed best used in this case? It seems good to move to cover, gain a 'hard to hit' bonus etc. But with crap guns... what's the use? Or is it due to good range? (haven't got the sheet with me here or i'd check)

Speed means higher target numbers. The faster you go, the harder it is for them to hit you. The Cicada has a movement of 8/12, it's one of the fastest 'Mechs around and really damnd fast for a Medium 'Mech. Let's assume for a second that you move 12 in a straight line - that's a +4 modifier right there. So if your opponent has Gunnery 4, he's at 8 To Hit before you even factor in the range between you, whether he moved or not, and any cover that might be there.

Now speed is no substitute for armour - a Dasher moving 20 hexes in a single turn, granting it a +5 modifier, will die horribly if an AC/20 slug hits it anywhere - but if you don't have much armour, speed is what you need to survive. Slow things with long-ranged weapons should be sitting in cover. Fast things, regardless of whether they have good armour of not, should be moving.

Now let's take a look at the Cicada. The original version presented in the 4th Edition Intro Rules was CDA-2A Cicada. 8/12 movement, only 64 points of armour, and packing 2 Medium Lasers and a Small Laser. It was a slash-attack 'Mech, run past, fire guns, run away, come back in for another pass next turn. In the current Introbox, the one you have, the Cicada is the CDA-3MA Cicada. It retains it's 8/12 movement, has over twice the armour (136), keeps both Medium Lasers, upgrades te Small Laser to a Small Pulse Laser and gains a Snub-Nosed PPC, one of the coolest BTech weapons they've invented in a while. Best of all, the 'Mech is heat neutral. It's total weapons heat from an Alpha Strike is 18, and running it maxes out at 20 heat, which is exactly what its 10 Double Heat Sinks can handle. This machine is dangerous. It's downside is that it has an XL engine, and you'll understand why that can be a liability when you start using critical hits and internal system damage, but aside from that one minor point, this machine is a major improvement over every version of the Cicada to come before it.

You don't even need to move the full 12 to get that +4 modifier with the Cicada. You only need to move 10, so you can actually use your last three hexes of movement (10, 11 and 12) to move into a Heavy Woods, which grants a +2 modifier. So that's a +6 (!) modifier before they factor in range, their own movement and any other cover that might be there. And all you suffer for that is a +2 for running.

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Yesterday i did a one on one. Was hilarious. :p My Hunchback. (i think it was the hunchback -> humanoid one with a heavy las, small las and an autocannon) was pulverized for the most part.

I think you're thinking of the Enforcer. Enforcer has a heavy autocannon (AC/10), Large Laser and a Small Laser, and can jump. The Hunchback can't jump, but has two Medium Lasers, a single Small Laser and a super-heavy autocannon (AC/20).

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Trying out the rules i ran forth as did my brother but only then i realized the difference in armaments. Exchanging fire my brother quickly gained the upperhand. All my hits were on his torso but he pretty much brought my head to 1 point, destroyed an arm, severely damaged another arm and a leg. Plus left and right torso halves went bye bye too. I backed away and was almost gone from the table while backstepping, when i fired a last shot with my autocannon. Hit the torso again and wrecked his mech! Hilarious.

That's what happens! 'Mechs are tenacious things. I once had a Ryoken, a Clan Omni-Mech and easily my fav 'Mech in the whole game (also one of the best 'Mechs in the game, and probably the best Medium 'Mech ever conceived), have one side of its body torn off. I lost my UAC20, my engine took two hits so I was generating 10 extra heat per turn, and I was surrounded, quite literally, but about 8 other 'Mechs. I kept going, ignoring them all to focus on the target I had chosen. I hunted that 'Mech down, despite taking even more firepower, and killed it. Next turn I ran into a really big Assault 'Mech and died horribly, but I had killed my target heroically, and even managed to kill a Commando in a single shot (UAC20 + Commando = Dead Commando).

Darthvegeta800 wrote:My impression of the game was good so far i think i'll ask my brother to do do a 2 vs 2 before trying out the extended rules.

As I said, try out the actual demo mission with the quick-start record sheets they give you - Hunchback + Hermes vs Cicada + Enforcer. It's a good game, and will teach each player the value of different types of weapon systems, movement modes, and the roles of armour vs speed.

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Small side question. In Total Warfare, am i correct that the basic rules are also included in it. Basically it has all the advanced rules but also the 'normal ones'?

What you have with the Intro Box is both the 'quick start' rules and the standard rules of 'Mech combat in BTech (so internal structure, critical hits, advanced weapons and so on). Total Warfare has all of that, plus it expands everything in the introbox rules by including vehicles, infantry, battle armour, protomechs, aerospace, heaps of more advanced weapon systems and things like that.

Aah well we did the startup scenario. But i believe it only spoke of position the first 2 mechs. In any case we'll do a 2 vs 2 soon.

So with the speedy one it's best to run, shoot, run away next turn, shoot, run away. And if possible try to move into a forest and let him them come?

We'll expand towards Davion and Kurita. Given the fact i love the DC fluff and the fact we have the 4 set boosters and the book that comes with it.

I do have a question in regards to that. i'm very fond of painting and after a few games i plan to do just that. Question is... what would be a good division for the minis. Which would best go to Kurita and which to Davion, to avoid unbalancing things option-wise for one side.

Thanks for all the info btw!

That's a more difficult question.

This topic's come up about a dozen times over on the CBT.com boards, so I'll let Mattlov handle this one.

*puts up the Mattlov Signal*

Shouldn't be long.

Had another question too.
What decals would be best to buy for the factions of Sword and Dragon.
In the book itself it looks like Sorenson's Sabers don't use their own emblem (with the explosion) on their mechs, just the DC symbol and that of the 5 the Sword of Light.
Fox's Teeth however just use the Davion emblem and their own symbol but not that of 7th Crucis Lancers.

Is this correct?

That I can answer, or at least point you in the right direction.

You want to find out the correct paint and symbol schemes? CamoSpecs is the place to go. They've got virtually every unit in the game painted up in some form or another, and include all their insignias and whatnot.

As for the decals themselves, Fighting Pirannha have just about everything you can think of.

Well i know both sites. Plan to buy the decals from Pirannha.

But Camospecs and Sword and Dragon seem somewhat contradictory in the emblems used.
The Sabres seem to vary in which combination is used.
And on Camospecs the regimental symbol is not seen on the Tooth's. In fact in the booklet they just seem to wear the Fox Tooth symbol and the basic Davion symbol.

That could be because McKinnon's Raiders are an independant command, so while they are technically part of the regiment, they don't operate under its authority and can essentially do what they want (or whatever the First Prince tells them to do).

*nods*
So basically... for them i just order whatever i feel like?

For the Fox's Teeth: The unit tooth emblem and the davion emblem decals.

For the Sabres: Kurita emblem, 5th Sword of Light AND unit decals (if there are any as i don't see the explosion symbol of the Sabres available on that site)

Question:

I have some mechs that are about 20 years old, from Fasa. Are they compatable with Iron Wind or the Starter set miniatures? Im seriously thinking about getting my lance back out, maybe drag my kids along (were having a BLAST with my old copies of MW3 and 4 on local and LAN play). Are the Iron Wind metals better quality than the old FASA ones? The plastic on the Fasa minis is sxtremely brittle (maybe even a blue resin instead of plastic?). After 20+ years of sitting on my shelf just base coated, I just finished airbrushing my 1:32 scale Madcat, will have to post pics when Im done adding badges etc.

Cool to see Battletech becoming popular again!

A lot of IWM models are just Ral Partha moulds the IWM got wen Ral Partha went out of business, so essentially the same. There are BTech minis that I own that are almost as old as I am!!!

If you can put up pics of the ones you have, I'm sure we can identify them.

LOL, I wont have any problems IDing them. Ive had them for 20 odd years. Just hoping that when placed on the table, they will be to scale.

Cant believe that at 39, Im looking to get back into Battletech LOL.....

I answer the Mattlov Signal!

Dividing the Intro 'Mechs into Davion and Kurita is easy for most of them:

Davion: Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Enforcer, Dervish, JagerMech, Atlas,

Kurita: Commando, Jenner, Panther, Clint, Whitworth, Dragon, Catapult, Zeus, Banshee,

The other ones are either not common to either, or common enough to both that you should be able to pick among them to balance each other out.

Other: Assassin, Hermes II, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Quickdraw, Grasshopper, Awesome, Cyclops,

As you see, the Davions have the heavier stuff from the box, while the Kuritans have a lot of speed. So there is still some choice there.

I have some mechs that are about 20 years old, from Fasa. Are they compatable with Iron Wind or the Starter set miniatures? Im seriously thinking about getting my lance back out, maybe drag my kids along (were having a BLAST with my old copies of MW3 and 4 on local and LAN play). Are the Iron Wind metals better quality than the old FASA ones? The plastic on the Fasa minis is sxtremely brittle (maybe even a blue resin instead of plastic?). After 20+ years of sitting on my shelf just base coated, I just finished airbrushing my 1:32 scale Madcat, will have to post pics when Im done adding badges etc.

Other than the intro box everything is pewter (we stopped making lead stuff). The most recent minis have started to trend larger, but if you play on a mapsheet it isn't an issue. The old FASA 3rd Edition plastics are actually vinyl, which is why they suck so bad.

Mattlov wrote:I answer the Mattlov Signal!

Dividing the Intro 'Mechs into Davion and Kurita is easy for most of them:

Davion: Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Enforcer, Dervish, JagerMech, Atlas,

Kurita: Commando, Jenner, Panther, Clint, Whitworth, Dragon, Catapult, Zeus, Banshee,

The other ones are either not common to either, or common enough to both that you should be able to pick among them to balance each other out.

Other: Assassin, Hermes II, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Quickdraw, Grasshopper, Awesome, Cyclops,

I kind of disagree on some of the mechs I also base on 3025 tech

Spider: Anyone pretty much
Cicada: More known as a Marik Mech. Both houses are equally distant.
Vindicator: Liao mech, more likely to be found in a Davion unit than Kurita unit.
Enforcer: Davion mech
Dervish: Either could have, but more known as a Davion mech
Jagermech: Davion mech
Atlas: Anyone can have pretty much.
Dragon: Kurita mech
Commando: Steiner mech. Either could have.
Jenner:Kurita mech
Panther:Kurita Mech
Clint: This is more known as a Marik mech if memory serves. Either could have.
Whitworth: Generic mech, but more of a Kurita mech
Catapult: Generic mech, but I would put in the Kurita side
Zeus: Steiner mech. Either could have
Banshee: Steiner mech. Either could have
Assassin: Generic mech
Hermes II: Marik Mech. Either could have.
Hunchback: Generic mech
Trebuchet: Generic mech, but I would put more on the Kurita side
Quickdraw: Generic mech, but more of a Kurtia
Grasshopper: Generic mech
Awesome: Generic mech
Cyclops: Generic mech

My thoughts:
Kurita: Spider, Jenner, Panther, Clint, Whitworth, Trebuchet, Dragon, Quickdraw, Catapult, Grasshopper, Cyclops, Banshee
Davion: Commando, Cicada, Assassin, Hermes II, Vindicator, Enforcer, Hunchback, Dervish, Jagermech, Zeus, Awesome, Atlas

One thing to consider: Davions like Autocannons(especially, 2 and 10 class), Kurita likes PPC's and LRM's.

H.B.M.C. wrote:A lot of IWM models are just Ral Partha moulds the IWM got when Ral Partha went out of business, so essentially the same.

Yes, they're the same. Mike Noe, the founder of Iron Wind Metals was the general manager at Ral Partha so they're the same moulds Partha was using.

SWEET!

What about the Mechwarrior clix models? My local shop only carries Clix Mechwarrior, none of the Catalyst lab stock. How out of "scale" are the Clix models?

They're big. The infantry, as it happens, are perfect scale, but the rest are a little big. And most of them are pretty ugly too.

Spacemanvic wrote:SWEET!

What about the Mechwarrior clix models? My local shop only carries Clix Mechwarrior, none of the Catalyst lab stock. How out of "scale" are the Clix models?

Battletech theoretically scales at about 1/285 or 1/300, while the click version is about 1/144.

So click versions are generally about twice the size, but some are upwards of 3 times the size of the pewter version.

Also note that a fair number of the plastic clix 'mechs have not made their 'in-universe' debut yet.

Mattlov wrote:

Achilles wrote:And it shows in the 'classic' robot jox look of the battletech minis.

If you want a good Mecha game... play Heavy Gear.

I can't describe how heavily I am mocking you right now.

Battletech is THE gold standard of small scale mecha combat games. When you have a game that is 25 years old now and had ONE major rules update, you are doing pretty darn well for yourself.

We also have suspender-wearing men with Jerry Garcia beards behind us. We cannot fail.

Except for the early designs being either shameless ripoffs of Robotech and other famous mechs, or hideous boxes drawn by 8th graders. And just because it had one rules update does not equal good. The rules have lots of holes, just like in the first edition where you could build a clan mechwarrior who could not be hit by any innersphere mechs if he ran, but could hit them back.

I would say Battletech has an interesting background and rules that allow lots of customization and campaigns, where as 40k is more heavy into the army vs. army aspect with no RPG elements.

And of course one could claim that Heavy Gear is a ripoff of Armoured Trooper VOTOMS just as easily. Whatever...

Given the two images that you've linked to, it's a much more spurious claim than pointing out that four Battletech 'Mech are photocopies of Macross Valkyrie variants.

Not really. FASA claims they had the rights to use those images whereas I'm assuming the DP9 didn't get the rights to make their 'gears look so much like the VOTOMS. Either claim is suprious and getting quite old and tiresome.

As I type this I'm playing 3 green triaing scenarios in a row.(I'm playing against myself) In the first game The Hunchback charged the Enforcer, which did nothing but blaze away at the Hunchback. The Enforcer missied alot. The Hunchback blew the Enforcer to bits with it's AC 20. In 2 hits it killed it! The seconed game I changed tactics, This time I would run and gun. I'n the seconed game the Hunchback nailed the Enforcer with it's last AC 20 slug bringing the it's total win's to 2. In the third game the Enforcer blew the AC20 off the Hunchback The Enforcer than shot it to pieces. 2-1 Things I learened today 1.AC 20's are scary! 2. Speed=Life but dosen't replace armor. 3.AC 20's are scary! I love Battletech!

Durandal wrote:Except for the early designs being either shameless ripoffs of Robotech and other famous mechs...

In order for something to be a 'ripoff', there has to be intent behind it. You have to intend to rip something off. In BattleTech's case they knew they were designs from other various Japanese sources because they were lisenced from these sources. It's really bloody difficult to rip something off when you've been given permission to copy it.

Nurglitch wrote:Battletech 'Mech are photocopies of Macross Valkyrie variants

They were the exact same artwork because they were meant to be the exact same artwork. Why do people still have trouble with this concept?

Not to mention WH40K borrows heavily from a lot of things though indirectly. (regarding a prior comment)
Everything is inspired by other things.
Though the Unnamed would be a bit over the top had it been intentional. But if it's legal i can live with it. Command Pod from Robotech actually kinda suits the setting.

And it's a moot point anyway because they now hold the lisence to those images again.

dragonfire wrote:As I type this I'm playing 3 green triaing scenarios in a row.(I'm playing against myself) In the first game The Hunchback charged the Enforcer, which did nothing but blaze away at the Hunchback. The Enforcer missied alot. The Hunchback blew the Enforcer to bits with it's AC 20. In 2 hits it killed it! The seconed game I changed tactics, This time I would run and gun. I'n the seconed game the Hunchback nailed the Enforcer with it's last AC 20 slug bringing the it's total win's to 2. In the third game the Enforcer blew the AC20 off the Hunchback The Enforcer than shot it to pieces. 2-1 Things I learened today 1.AC 20's are scary! 2. Speed=Life but dosen't replace armor. 3.AC 20's are scary! I love Battletech!

Yes, the AC/20 is a great equalizer. Get a Hunchback to short range against ANYTHING and the target worries about it. A LOT.

Any tips for geting friends into Battletech?

Really? Just show them the game, and point out some strong points of the system.

1. Doesn't require much to play. Minis aren't even necessary.

2. Rules aren't going to change every couple years.

3. Units you buy right now will still be good in 20 years. If they used to play, everything they had is still perfectly viable.

4. RPG elements. You can make it a very personalized game, and have character advancement and personality.

5. It is EASY. Sure, there is a big scary rulebook. But unlike most games, you can ignore 80%+ of it if you only play 'Mech vs. 'Mech. To-Hit numbers are easy to calculate, with just simple math.

H.B.M.C:

So, does Ironwind Metals have a license to produce the 'Unseen'? What does that mean for the 'Re-seen' that they produced lately. I found the latter much more 'Battletech-esque' than the Harmony Gold Macross and Votoms mechas.

Nurglitch wrote:HA! Answer steal!

So, does Ironwind Metals have a license to produce the 'Unseen'? What does that mean for the 'Re-seen' that they produced lately. I found the latter much more 'Battletech-esque' than the Harmony Gold Macross and Votoms mechas.

IWM does not YET have the license to produce the Unseen that we know of. The whole process has been kept pretty quiet to even the Demo Team.

The Reseen will stay around. Think of them as the 3060+ version of them. The Unseen were on the battlefield for the first few hundred years of 'Mech combat, and even in 3070+ they can still be found.

The Reseen are the designs of Vicore Industries to capitalize on those chassis and improve or refurbish them.

Problem 1 friend dosn't want to try it what do I do. Besiedes tieing him to a chair and forcing him to watch barney for 12 hours.

I suggest forcing him to watch Barney for 12 hours then whilst feeding him a mix of pure adrenalin and cocain for that entire time.

When he comes off the high, tell him that the only way to get back to normal is to play BTech with you. Then let him win.

dragonfire wrote:Problem 1 friend dosn't want to try it what do I do. Besiedes tieing him to a chair and forcing him to watch barney for 12 hours.

Make a deal. Tell him you will try something he wants to do if he will try Battletech.

You don't want to force someone into a recreational activity. That is a certain way to summon the fail whale.

Got my hands cheaply on Battlespace, the third edition rpg book and the third edition Battletech box for 20 euros from someone i know that no longer plays.
Apparently i now have a horde of 'unseen' LOL.

In any case, how good is Battlespace? And what's the opinion on the Mechwarrior RPG?

Thanks Mattlov, and if not

Darthvegeta800 wrote:Got my hands cheaply on Battlespace, the third edition rpg book and the third edition Battletech box for 20 euros from someone i know that no longer plays.
Apparently i now have a horde of 'unseen' LOL.

In any case, how good is Battlespace? And what's the opinion on the Mechwarrior RPG?

Battlespace is out of date. Total Warfare covers Fighter and DropShip combat. WarShip combat is covered in Strategic (or is it Interstellar?) Operations.

The Mechwarrior RPG is on the verge of becoming obsolete with the new version due out hopefully by the end of the year. Depending on the version it is either a D6 RPG or a D10 version.

I just received the "Tactical Operations" book and my brain is spinning with campaign ideas!

beefHeart wrote:I just received the "Tactical Operations" book and my brain is spinning with campaign ideas!

Yeah, there are just idiotic amounts of options in TacOps.

So besiedes heat I've got the basic's down, so besides total warfare what do you sugguset next for clans as most of my favorite mechs (Timber Wolf) for exampele are clans.

Pick up TRO: 3050 Update.

Thanks. One more thing can you tell me more about Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Ghost Bear and Clan and Clan Star Adder?

Check out http://www.sarna.net for any and all info on BT factions...

Thanks I did and the Star Adders are by far my favorite.

beefHeart wrote:I just received the "Tactical Operations" book and my brain is spinning with campaign ideas!

Campaigns? You should get a hold of Strategic Operations. That book is worth it for the full set of Repair, Rearm, Refit and Salvage rules - perfect for a campaign.

Try Max tech it is alot better than Tacops and Strategic Operations.I have a large number of the original FASA campaign and tech readouts.Try not to get involved with Dark Age or Jihad.IMO they do not even exist.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try Max tech it is alot better than Tacops and Strategic Operations.

Umm... MaxTech is old, and virtually everything in it is updated and added to in TO and SO. How is it 'better'?

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try not to get involved with Dark Age or Jihad.IMO they do not even exist.

They do. The BTech universe is a universe that moves forward. It's been doing that since the 4th War, and it won't stop. Live with it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try Max tech it is alot better than Tacops and Strategic Operations.

Umm... MaxTech is old, and virtually everything in it is updated and added to in TO and SO. How is it 'better'?

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try not to get involved with Dark Age or Jihad.IMO they do not even exist.

They do. The BTech universe is a universe that moves forward. It's been doing that since the 4th War, and it won't stop. Live with it.

It stopped moving forward the moment they destroyed it with the Jihad sorry.The Jihad was a way to explain the clix game which failed and put out new models in that "age" of BT.Besides Dark Age is crap.Have not lost a game yet playing against the junk it has using good old 3050 tech.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try Max tech it is alot better than Tacops and Strategic Operations.

Umm... MaxTech is old, and virtually everything in it is updated and added to in TO and SO. How is it 'better'?

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Try not to get involved with Dark Age or Jihad.IMO they do not even exist.

They do. The BTech universe is a universe that moves forward. It's been doing that since the 4th War, and it won't stop. Live with it.

Actually he doesn't. He can just game in pre-invasion and invasion times for instance.
I'm a big SW fan. But i hate the new novels, Force Unleashed and pretty much everything post Remnant era bar perhaps the Legacy comics. I ignore them. And i don't rp in those eras usually.
One games what one wants.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:It stopped moving forward the moment they destroyed it with the Jihad sorry.

You sound like those grognards who go on about how the Clans ruined the game.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:The Jihad was a way to explain the clix game...

It wasn't actually. The Jihad predated ClickTech.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:...which failed...

Can't argue there. Weisman did alienate his fanbase.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:and put out new models in that "age" of BT.

Not sure what you mean here. Please elaborate.

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Besides Dark Age is crap.Have not lost a game yet playing against the junk it has using good old 3050 tech.

Well that's got little to do with Jihad or Dark Age-era 'Mechs and more to do with the players.

Hey, as far as I am concerned, the universe is still in the year 3058

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:It stopped moving forward the moment they destroyed it with the Jihad sorry.

You sound like those grognards who go on about how the Clans ruined the game.

They did!

I'm teasing, but that's the beauty of BT. You can play any Era you want, like historicals! Panzers ruined wargaming so I'm only going to play Napoleonic!

skyth wrote:Hey, as far as I am concerned, the universe is still in the year 3058

Yeah, but the FedCom Civil War is such a great time for combat!

I'd say the universe kept moving. In Dark Ages you have claws as a new mech melee weapon, giant 'larger than 100 ton' three legged battlemechs, wings on mechs and all kinds of other new junk. Battle armor is much more common too.

Now it seems that military fusion engines got rare (so they could justify making you "enjoy" all the industrial mechs you get in the random packs) but technology doesn't appear to have stagnated too much.

Mattlov wrote:

skyth wrote:Hey, as far as I am concerned, the universe is still in the year 3058

Yeah, but the FedCom Civil War is such a great time for combat!

Maybe, but it's to the point that I don't recognize the mechs and there is all this new tech that I don't want to have to deal with...

New tech? Do you realise that from a weapon perspective virtually nothing has changed in BTech for years? The closest we got to a weapon revolution was the advent of the Snub, Light and Heavy PPCs.

Most of the 'new' tech remains optional/non-tourney legal, sitting in optional rulebooks.

Snub nosed PPC's, RAC's, MRM's, IS ER ML/SL's, ATM's, Protomechs, Stealth armor, Light Gauss rifles, Heavy Laser, Variant ammo types for AC's, IS Ultras/LB's other than 5/10, Need I go on?

Umm... you want the universe to be stuck in 3058. IS ER Lasers came about in 3058 as did the larger LB-X's. So did MRM's. Light Gauss Rifle was even earlier.

It's really not that much.

Grrrrr...3055. I keep on thinking that the 3055 book was for 3058...Got my books mixed up.

JIhad=crap

Oh...just looked, none of the advanced tech I mentioned is available in the 3058 book

Granted, I still don't recognize/like most of the mechs so hey

H.B.M.C. wrote: IS ER Lasers came about in 3058 as did the larger LB-X's.

Really? I thought the er lasers and lb-x's were in the 3050 book, even for IS....

Just ER-Larges abd LB-10X's.

Just ER-Larges abd LB-10X's.

That's right! I remember now....

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:JIhad=crap

Would you like me to call the WAAAAHH-mbulance for you?

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:JIhad=crap

Funny, cause the 40K storyline is just 20,000 YEARS of the same thing. It just is called "Everyday Miserable Existence" instead of "Jihad."

I think it's a bit of an exageration to say that 40K has a real storyline. It has a background that is founded on stasis and an illusion of progress.

Yes the implication is that mankind is reaching a dark threshold that will see the Imperium unravel as it faces bigger tyranid fleets, waking Necrons and C'Tan, bigger and rowdier orcs, yet more desperate and degenerate Eldar scheming, renewed chaos crusades, treachery(Ecclesiarcy zealotry, Adeptus Terra greed, local governors ambitions, Mechanicum dark plots, corrupt Inquisition, Space Marines on the edge, redemtionist idiots, cults, secret brotherhoods, angry Navy, Imperial Guard schenanigans, rebellions, ruthless Rogue Traders, etc,), political dissolution, and Tao expansionism. But the whole point is that it never really goes anywhere because job number one is to maintain the big fatalistic sense of tension.

That background supports lots of stories that progress but those stories don't generally move the background itself forward significantly and when they do (13th crusade) the background gets retconned back to managable levels once again. People describe 40K not in terms of it's progress but in terms of its revisions. It has a past but it is set in a present that really doesn't move much if moves at all.

Battletech on the other hand is dynamic. It just keeps plugging along with the soap opera and TOM CLANCY IN SPACE view of space history. It gets more complex and you can very clearly get a sense that it is moving and getting more complicated and shifting its focus. Generations of characters slowly go by and huge events change the technology and the big map so that going foward it is a different sort of game.

The Jihad storyline essentially gives us WOB units of new advanced Celestial Omnimechs operating in units SIX strong (bigger than a STAR!) and sweeps away or weakens a lot of the old characters and organizations to make room for newer ones. It leads into the Republic of the Sphere which itself leads into the Dark Age. And probably, if Battletech survives long enough THAT will move into something ELSE. Maybe they'll have kung-fu biomechs or human brains in jars controlling robot-dinosaur tanks. Maybe mechs will get teleportation modules and von neuman repair systems, dark matter PPC's and pion cannons. I have no idea. I'm sure that people will complain that it ruins the game.

Meanwhile 40K will probably look pretty much the same perhaps with some new races and units or force composition or rules, but it will still essentially be about mankind (a bald guy in powered armor)on the brink of the last giant super war EVAR!, pointing, screaming, holding a giant sword with skulls for accesories, while referencing the low points of the Horus Heresey. With a Titan in the background.

40K is a 'setting'. BattleTech is a plotline.

A plotline they destroyed with the Jihad.Why they invented it will never be known but it did almost kill BT outright.

No it didn't. BTech is going strong and hasn't stopped.

Where are you getting this?

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:A plotline they destroyed with the Jihad.Why they invented it will never be known but it did almost kill BT outright.

So it would have been better for this expansive and living universe to stagnate and die? The Jihad is fine. It is good.

Battletech has never been close to dead. Sort of dormant for about a year or so with the FASA/FanPro changeover, but never close to dead.

Actually it's a perfectly valid thing to say about the BT setting. Legends of the 5 Rings has a dynamic setting too with an advancing plotline. That has advantages over a more stagnant setting like 40K but disadvantages too, especially since storychoice of a radical nature tend to multiply overtime and not persay with positive consequences. L5R actually turnd me of in part due to it's dynamic plotline in that it went over the top with it and partially messed up it's setting in my own opinion.

40K's background and story is just as strong as that of BT, it's just a different approach.

Stagnation or pseudo stagnation is not persay a bad thing, quite on the contrary in this kind of thing.

Jihad does in fact = pure crap

If you read the novels from the old days, the jihad could not have occured the way it did, if at all. I can name multiple books that will back me up!

Mr. EvilMonkey wrote:Jihad does in fact = pure crap

If you read the novels from the old days, the jihad could not have occured the way it did, if at all. I can name multiple books that will back me up!

Except it can be done, and has been done. The writers who have been with Battletech for years figured it is possible. And it does work if you read about the Jihad.

The Jihad happened in the old days. The 4th Succession War was very similar. Bait and switch to move units around and fool the enemy. Strike hard in many places to confuse the enemy. Exploit and follow through.

The Davions did it in the 4th Succession War, and the Word of Blake has access to more technology, an easier ability to communicate without the enemy knowing, and the ability to hide their growth to everyone else. But unlike the Davions, the Blakists hit the whole Inner Sphere.

Is this the ol' Steiner black box technology + Jumpship couriers = no inconveninece from HPG jamming thing AGAIN ?

Mr. EvilMonkey wrote:Jihad does in fact = pure crap

If you read the novels from the old days, the jihad could not have occured the way it did, if at all. I can name multiple books that will back me up!

Exactly.

Because on May 2, 3067 the Treaty of Tukayyid is, by the agreement of said Treaty, null and void. On that day the remaining Clans should have swept through the IS, and taken Terra. Which then nullify the Jihad storyline, although according to the storyline the Clans are nowhere to found.

That's why I disagree with the whole "Jihad" storyline.

sqir666 wrote:Because on May 2, 3067 the Treaty of Tukayyid is, by the agreement of said Treaty, null and void.

Umm... you've heard of the Great Refusal right? Remember that little thing? Yeah? Stopped the invasion completely. Only the Crusader Wolves believe themselves to be unaffected by the results of that, but yeah, the Truce of Tukayyid ended when Victor and his Crew stomped the Clans on Strana Mechty and wiped out the last of the Smoke Jaguars.

The Jihad isn't impossible, and the Clans and the Truce have nothing to do with that.

Does anyone know if Heroscape tiles work well for Battletech hexes?

How many of the big sets would you need to buy for a decent table map?

Yes.

A lot.

In that order.

I've seen people use Heroscape hexes quite a bit, and they work very well as 3D representations of the maps. You'll probably need a few of them though.

I'm still baffled why people can't just, I dunno, play the BTech era they want? Jihad Sux? Don't play during the Jihad. Hate Clans? Play 3025. Why can't we all just get along?


I would like to see someone build a few units for Kerensky vs Amaris out of the 2750 book and play a campaign....

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:A plotline they destroyed with the Jihad.Why they invented it will never be known but it did almost kill BT outright.

It DID kill the Black Thorns outright!!

Still, play the era you like. If they didn't evolve the universe nothing new would come out except 'scenario pack #539, the battle for this other planet'.

And personally I'm not a real big fan of those, I like making my own scenarios.

I mainly play 3025 to 3055 games, and don't really have the time and inclination for playing in the other eras as well. I do like to keep up on the storyline though.

palaeomerus wrote:Does anyone know if Heroscape tiles work well for Battletech hexes?

How many of the big sets would you need to buy for a decent table map?

I do an analysis of Heroscape Tiles for use in Battletech games here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208138.page

I have 5 master sets of Heroscape and I can only make about 2 full Battletech Mapsheets.

Battletech maps are FULL of terrain and elevations and can make it difficult to make an exact copy of mapsheets.

You can make a larger map with less terrain with 3 or four full sets. The more the merrier.

My only complaint about it is that setup and tear down time for Heroscape can be rather annoyingly long.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

They were the exact same artwork because they were meant to be the exact same artwork. Why do people still have trouble with this concept?

I don't. I have trouble with people holding up a game as a pinnacle of artistic design when said game's best designs are taken lock stock and barrel from other more popular IPs, knowingly or otherwise.

Where has that been done here?

Who holds battletech up as "a pinnacle of artistic design" ?

Seriously...

Son of a bitch...

Not good.

That sucks.

At least we'll get the Scorpion, Goliath, Wolverine, Shadowhawk, Griffin, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Ostscout, and Ostol back. And those IIC Clan 'mechs.

I'm still looking forward to a few of these unseen making their way into my collection.

Probably not the Rifleman IIC, Whammy IIC, Marauder IIC or Phoenix Hawk IIC.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Probably not the Rifleman IIC, Whammy IIC, Marauder IIC or Phoenix Hawk IIC.

Actually, they probably will be kept "Seen Again." Only the name unifies them with the old version, and they really don't resemble their namesakes. The art was done by Victor Musical Industries, not by the Robotech/Harmony Gold stuff.

And here I was looking forward to the return of the classic Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer and Crusader

As for the LAMs, anything to keep them out of the BattleTech Universe is alright by me

They're still part of the Universe. TPTB even state that when asked.

Yes, a former part of the universe.

Still there. Those that survive into the modern era of Battletech either don't work properly (if at all), are museum pieces, or have been stripped down into shells.

They still exist though.

Dang, I was really looking forward to the Rifleman and Warhammer.

Archer and Warhammer for me

Heck, I've even developed stats for the REF versions

H.B.M.C. wrote:Those that survive into the modern era of Battletech either don't work properly (if at all), are museum pieces, or have been stripped down into shells.

Which equals "former".

Well, the four starter boxes I ordered from Amazon in late July have been delayed to mid spetember. :(

Son of a biscuit eater!

Well, that sucks big D. I was looking forward to some of these returning too, the Warhammer in particular.

Will there still be stats available for these mechs, just not new minis? Or are they just going to be stuck as museum pieces?

Hordini wrote:Will there still be stats available for these mechs, just not new minis?

The stats are already available, it's only the miniatures that currently not available due to copyrights...

I have a question about mechwarrrior 4 does it run on windows melinuilm?

In theory it should, but I never give ME the benefit of the doubt for any reason.

So maybe?

So maybe, but I'm poasting!


Battletech rules!

dragonfire wrote:So maybe?

I didn't know anyone was still using ME, and I burnt my copy years ago. You might be the only person left using it.

Glad i still have my original Ral Partha Mechs as well as my 3rd Ed. plastics

Octavius Widowmaker wrote:Glad i still have my original Ral Partha Mechs as well as my 3rd Ed. plastics

The classics are OK, but the Reseen have far better detail and MUCH more posability and character of stance.

This does NOT mean I'm getting rid of any of my lead Marauders, though.

I just got my really old computer working agian.

i really love the battletech novels. that is all.

There's some real stinkers and poor books among the novels though. Of course IMHO & YMMV etc. etc.

my bad, i didnt look`at the page count and aswered something already done.... as way of compensation here are my favorite mechs. yours?

List of all time favorite mechs:
Penatrator
Steath
night sky
P-hawk
highlander
and yes the beserker. who wouldnt?

Archer
T-Bolt
Battlemaster
Warhammer

skyth wrote:Archer
T-Bolt
Battlemaster
Warhammer

Ah, a fellow fan of the Unseen... I also like the Shadow Hawk for aesthetics, the 'over the shoulder' autocannon looks pretty neat.

Personal favorites (not among the Unseen)... the Hollander (there's something hilarious about a mech with a primary weapon that is nearly half it's overall mass...).

Timber Wolf for sheer cheese factor.

And one from the Battletechnology supplements: The original Titan. It was similar to the Thug, only bigger, heavier (100 tons), and meaner. 2 PPC's, 6 Med. Lasers, and 22 SRMs in 5 launchers. Only looses a little bit of maneuverability to the Thug as well.

HATED the Titan II, because the weapons loadout was nothing like the original.