3704
Post by: BDJV
From Heresy Online.
Katie Drake wrote:Hey guys. How's it going? I've got a little something here for you.
According to my source (which cannot be named due to his/her fear of getting in trouble for leaking goodies), the Blood Raven Space Marines will be getting a Codex all of their own for 40K "sometime before 6th edition". Said source insists that Games Workshop has been looking to further capitalize on the excellent sales on the Space Marine range and as such have been grooming the Blood Ravens for the spotlight via the Dawn of War series of computer games.
Apparently the Blood Ravens will get a whole bunch of goodies in order to distance them from the typical Codex Chapters and therefore justify a dedicated Codex - the large number of psykers in the Chapter being one of the main themes. After all, there's already the balanced Chapter (Ultramarines), shooty Chapter (well, sort of at least, in the form of the Dark Angels before their new Codex release and Imperial Fists), and a bunch of close combat focused Chapters (Blood Angels, Black Templars and Space Wolves, to name but a few), so a Chapter that stands out by relying on a large number of Librarians makes sense. Aside from Librarians, the Ravens will apparently make use of some "lost, ancient Imperial Technology" which, coupled with the unprecedented foresight of the Chapter's psykers, will allow many of the units in the army to "begin the game in advantageous positions or receive bonuses".
That's all I've heard so far, but my source informs me that we'll be hearing progressively more about the Blood Ravens, both in further Dawn of War games as well as from the Black Library to prepare the way for the Ravens to arrive in the limelight.
While this may seem fantastic and unlikely, this source is the same that hinted about the addition of the Tau a number of years ago, as well as a contributor to the Planetstrike rumors that we began hearing about over two years ago.
I know it seems like a long shot, but I used to date the guy that told me this stuff, so I'm inclined to believe him.
Hopefully this makes for an interesting discussion if nothing else.
Katie D
It makes total sense that GW would capitalize on the recognition and success of the DOW series of video games for 40K.
I'm now gonna duck out before the anti-marine league attacks. 
9394
Post by: Malika2
Hmm, that list will probably also mean more people might be playing (pre-Heresy) Thousand Sons.
If it means more Librarian models I'm all in for it!
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
I suppose it does make sense. After the success of Dawn of War, I predicted that Blood Ravens would be getting a major role in the canon.
I just hop that Indrick Boreale won't be part of it.
4412
Post by: George Spiggott
Jervis 'Bush' Johnson: "Read my lips! NO new Codices..."
"...except Daemons..."
..."and er, Blood Ravens."
Still no sign of a model of the Dawn of War Imperial Guard Commander. 
4869
Post by: ShumaGorath
Davian THUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULE!
Image removed because it broke h-scroll and made me sad. - Iorek
11
Post by: ph34r
[blood ravens codex]
[still no traitor legions codex]
There is no image to express my hatred for GW at this moment.
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
Oh, I forgot about the Chaos Legion codeicies.
Um...
FFFFFFFFUUUUUU-
14410
Post by: Havoc13
cool ANOTHER marine dex... just what is needed...
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
At least the Blud Rehven Spess Mehrens have class.
9389
Post by: lord marcus
and bad grammer.
11
Post by: ph34r
lord marcus wrote:bad grammer.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
So now we'll have an extra flavor of loyal Red Marines?
Just what we all needed and have been begging for!
At this point, it boggles the mind what other flavors of loyal Marines would even be possible...
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
Now we just need Codex: Pretty Marines, Codex: Angry Marines, and Codex: Black Marines. The Black Marine chapter master can be Mr. T.
9394
Post by: Malika2
Nah Mr T is too busy selling cooking equipment on tv nowadays to be a Chapter master!
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
And throwing snickers at people out of a tank.
Best. Ad. Ever.
14962
Post by: FieronThor
Cheese Elemental wrote:And throwing snickers at people out of a tank.
Best. Ad. Ever.
Imagine Mr T vs zombies with a snickers bar as a weapon/nutrition.....
Bah! I wanted a proper Blood Angels codex first - I can hear the xenos players screaming in anger for another codex bump.
I think some new 40k players will be disappointed with the fact that computer game (i.e. Movie) Space Marines don't translate their sheer awesomeness into the 'relatively' balanced world of 40k tabletop.
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
Mind you, Gabriel Angelos is awesome enough to be his own man. I mean, Marneus Calgar never killed an Avatar, a Chaos Lord, a Bloodthirster and a Daemon Sorcerer-Prince all in one day.
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Post by: legionaires
So awesome, I totally never wanted to see a Space wolf, Dark Eldar, Necron or any type Inquisition book, never mind that you (GW) are putting out the Chaos Dwarf book next week, could you delay that another 10 years so all the veteran gamers will have going into the nursing home first. Just give me another Marine book instead.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
God the "Spess Mehreen" thing pisses me off. He doesn't say "e" in either word (except where the "e" should be). He says Space, he just has a very particular (one might say peculiar) form of English accent. It's a very clipped "a", not a fething "e".
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Post by: Silverthorne
I'm actually pretty excited about this, but I have 5,000 points of Iron Ravens (Blood Ravens successors)
I wonder how they will incorporate the 5th company, and the whole - get along with xenos when necessary which is all the time- thing.
Also- if they are trying to grab people who play the game, why the hell aren't they putting a little fold out mini catalog in every box that sells to promote the table top game? It is pretty much the most obvious cross promotion of all time, and they have pissed it away for about half a decade now. Nice.
PS- I just noticed I have a button that allows me to ignore myself. Fascinating.
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
H.B.M.C. wrote:God the "Spess Mehreen" thing pisses me off. He doesn't say "e" in either word (except where the "e" should be). He says Space, he just has a very particular (one might say peculiar) form of English accent. It's a very clipped "a", not a fething "e".
If you listen to it right, it does sound like an 'e' in an Oxford accent.
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Post by: Thanatos73
I'm kind of interested in this, only for the possibility of doing a Pre Heresy 1000 Son list, as someone mentioned above. And seeing as one of my regular opponents might start a Space Wolf army, it would make for some fun games.
I do hope that this is WAY down the line though, as Dark Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition and even 'Nids and Tau need updates first.
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Post by: Vertrucio
Not surprised at all, I mean, Dawn of War 1&2 were responsible for driving a whole new lot of gamers to 40k. So, why not let them play the army that got them there?
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Post by: Jezrael
Y'all are so gullible. That's the weakest joke since the fake leaked nid dex.
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Post by: Polonius
Am I the only person who thinks this would have been cool four years ago? I mean, it would have been an interesting codex, with cool rules and some neat new models. Now? Well, I have a space marine army, so the more ways I have to play my guys, the richer my experience is.
I doubt this rumor, unless they really think they can sell Blood Ravens models.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Y'know if I had to choose between Codex The Other Red Space Marines and Codex Elfs WHo Are Dark and Also In Space...
I think I'd take up Warmachine.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know if I had to choose between Codex The Other Red Space Marines and Codex Elfs WHo Are Dark and Also In Space...
I think I'd take up Warmachine.
But you have codex: Grey Marines to look foreward too!
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
ShumaGorath wrote:Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know if I had to choose between Codex The Other Red Space Marines and Codex Elfs WHo Are Dark and Also In Space...
I think I'd take up Warmachine.
But you have codex: Grey Marines to look foreward too!
But I want Codex Shinny Marines! 
Actually I want Codex Inquiring Minds but I know I won't get it
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Post by: WGXH
Dang. I hope my 2,000 points of Blood Ravens would still be usable.
They never specifically have anything *against* Spamming tacticals and tanks, right? >_>
EDIT: Raging fanboy Speculation. Special Characters have to include Gabriel. Maybe Davian in eiher of his forms. Maybe even the bit dudes like Mikelus and Anteas.
Boreale is likely NOT to be in it, as even in Dawn of War 2 it's more or less stated outright he was a spectacular failure, getting nearly half the chapter wiped out.
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Post by: Fresh
pro - my army is getting a codex (?)
con - 1000+ models down the drain?
???
WIN!
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Post by: ungulateman
FACT - I am now seething in rage over lack of any Xenos Codex planned for the entire year.
And some of next year too.
9328
Post by: WGXH
Imperiumhammer 40k. Enjoy it. XD
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
WGXH wrote:Dang. I hope my 2,000 points of Blood Ravens would still be usable.
That would be ironic wouldn't it? They go and make a Blood Raven Codex and all the Blood Raven players (all eight of you) have your armies invalidated. LOL!
9328
Post by: WGXH
Worse things happen at sea.
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Post by: dienekes96
LMAO at the nerd "Space Marine?!?" rage over this completely specious rumor.
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
You're right, why are we arguing about this?
Right, discussion postponed forever, let's all go meet these 'wo-men' I keep hearing about.
Or, we can stay here and argue some more.
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Post by: Schepp himself
With the amount of internal Imperial fighting you could think that the Imperium is in a civil war or something. Shoot the xenos already!
Greets
Schepp himself
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Post by: Mahu
I am a Blood Ravens player, and the last thing they and the game needs is a Blood Ravens codex.
At best, all they need are a few special characters.
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Post by: GrimTeef
I dunno. I'm not really buying this rumor.
That said, I would welcome a list that is more Librarian-focused, as my own DIY chapter had that fluff written before I even heard of this same element being what the Blood Ravens are about. I felt that the recent marine codex has some nice powers and abilities, but the wargear for the Librarians was limited to the point of being restricting. Should this pan out, I would have to consider running my own chapter using this (rumored) codex.
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Post by: Leggy
Cheese Elemental wrote:And throwing snickers at people out of a tank.
Best. Ad. Ever.
A guy i play rugby with works for Mars here in the uk. His facebook profile picture is of him being headlocked by Mr T. It's entirely genuine.
I'm absurdly jealous :(
Back on topic - No to Blood Ravens! They are completely unnessecary and bring nothing new to the game. I've no objection to them in the fluff, but they're Codex marines in DOW, so why can't they just be a paint scheme?
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Post by: Mekboy
I wonder if they'll have rules for 'Multiple simultaneous devastating defensive deep strikes'. Perhaps have rules for the opponents getting bonuses against their 'Metal Bawkses'
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Post by: Reecius
That is cool I guess, not like there can be that many more marine players than there already are, just more variety in the marines that are out there.
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Post by: jmurph
Leggy wrote:
Back on topic - No to Blood Ravens! They are completely unnessecary and bring nothing new to the game. I've no objection to them in the fluff, but they're Codex marines in DOW, so why can't they just be a paint scheme?
You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection. 
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Post by: Rated G
See, jmurph gets it. Finally, a glimmer of hope in the grimdarkness of Dakka.
36
Post by: Moopy
I believe this is all fun speculation and rumor that isn't going to happen.
Necrons, SW, DE, and mebbe some chaos are already candidates.
This is just wishful thinking from a, "Source that can't be identified".
6806
Post by: Gavin Thorne
In all myth lies a grain of truth. Even if the truth sucks.
I wouldn't put it past GW to make a Blood Ravens codex, even if it was only printed in White Dwarf. I feel it would be a redundant venture since Blood Ravens are simply codex marines with some special characters. No need for a whole codex, just give the Chapter Master or Captain an ability that allows for more librarians.
Of course, the folks at GW have missed out on a spectacular marketing opportunity by not making models of the DOW commanders or providing terrain/objectives based on the buildings in the game. I've seen some Necron buildings on ebay that someone's made to match the summoning core and power generators made from wood, painted and based - GW could have made them in plastic very easily, along with the other race's buildings as well.
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Post by: jah-joshua
@shumagorath: hey buddy, it's codex blue-grey marines, a way cooler color ...
cheers
jah
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Post by: Cryonicleech
So, let me get this straight.....
No Grey Marines?
No Other Red Marines? (BA)
No Pointy Space Elves?
No Big Hat Dwarfs?
Ahhh well. It was nice to know that the Blood Ravens broke the veteran's backs.
Still though, It would be cool to see a BR 'dex
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Post by: ShumaGorath
No Grey Marines?
The grey marines are the next codex out. The veterans get their mary sue chapter of winmarines.
Still though, It would be cool to see a BR 'dex
I would have loved to see gabriel angelos get an entry in the marine book, maybe something that allowed librarians to be taken as elites or somesuch.
4010
Post by: Delephont
Hmm, if the main selling point is that the Blood Ravens have "alot" of psykers.....well, its not much of a selling point considering the Daemon Hunting Grey Knights do that already.....
I play Ultrasmurfs....and even I think GW need to focus more on the other races.....Marines have been done to death, what about the rest of the Whammy-verse.
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Post by: kirsanth
This thread made me laugh.
Silverthorne wrote:
PS- I just noticed I have a button that allows me to ignore myself. Fascinating.
This quote made me respond.
15178
Post by: CF Scout
Delephont wrote:I play Ultrasmurfs....and even I think GW need to focus more on the other races.....Marines have been done to death, what about the rest of the Whammy-verse.
I have Crimson Fists and I feel the same way for the most part. The other Factions and races need attention. They really should be doing the vanilla basic codi for the races before they touch upon the more specific armies. Give everyone rules to run with on a level playing field, then add the variety as time permits. Then once that is done add more variety, instead of toasting the edition and starting a new version just as you are almost done with the last set of rules...
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Post by: Crazy_Carnifex
The No more Marines! Rage that came attatched to the wolf rumors seems to have died down somewhat.
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Post by: Savnock
I do wonder whether a WD mini-dex might not be in the offing, rather than a full 'dex. Jervis said the days of core rules in WD were over, but there's the BA patch as an example.
It seems a decent idea, just not something worth taking focus off of other projects (like more xenos to actually fight).
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Post by: Food Store Hero
Getting a whole new codex is somewhat of a double-edged sword for someone like me. I'm just coming back to the hobby myself and all the new codices kind of annoy me to a degree. I used to have two chaos armies from way back when, but now no codex to go along with it. I was somewhat happy to see that my old Necrons Codex was still in play. Made things easier for me. I went out and bought the codex updates for my two main armies, but for my old side armies, usually just for friends that would want to try it out, are no longer in any way valid.
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Post by: Ketara
I highly doubt this rumour.
However, the day that it is officialy confirmed, is the day before the headline 'University student goes on chainsaw massacre at GW HQ' hits the papers.
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Post by: Nofasse 'Eadhunta
I'd play Codex: Drama Queens.
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
This week on Baywatch 40,000...
Gabriel Angelos: You're a dreadnought now, Thule, but I still want to kiss you.
Davian Thule: I'm pregnant.
Indrick Boreale: I hehve terminahl brehn canca.
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Post by: Miguelsan
Nah, it´s only a rumor. There can´t be a codex Red Marines because there is already a Red Marine chapter and having two would confuse the heck in GWHQ.
M.
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Post by: Railguns
Which is why when we had Black Marines Who Love the Emperor, Black Marines Who Watch Death, Edgar Allen Poe Black Marines and Black Marines in Green Armor, the Black Marines in Green Armor were turned into Drow. Because having more than one kind of Colored Marine is a frightening and confusing prospect for GW Nottingham.
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Post by: Nofasse 'Eadhunta
Miguelsan wrote:Nah, it´s only a rumor. There can´t be a codex Red Marines because there is already a Red Marine chapter and having two would confuse the heck in GWHQ.
M.
But these ones are Dark Red. And they're not angry they're more OH NOES DRAHMAAAAAA.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It's probably someone getting it mixed up with the Blood Angels rumours for next year (with BA and 'Nids coming thanks to Space Hulk).
6609
Post by: Fresh
nids?
there getting updated?
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Post by: dienekes96
jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.
Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years... BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.
The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.
I hate Space Marines! Yay!
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Post by: penek
what next? Codex: Hello Kitty? or year 2012 proudly presents - Codex: *any color* Marines. Codex: Not humans?
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Post by: whitedragon
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know if I had to choose between Codex The Other Red Space Marines and Codex Elfs WHo Are Dark and Also In Space...
I think I'd take up Warmachine.
Isn't Codex Eldar the next release for Warmachine?
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Post by: Alpharius
dienekes96 wrote:jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.
Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years... BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.
The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.
I hate Space Marines! Yay!
Thank you dienekes96!
I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often! 
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
If they do I will totally play them as Thousand Sons until we get a proper Codex.
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Post by: krazynadechukr2
Damn those whispers....THE VOICES!
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Post by: dietrich
If GW was putting out 3 or 4 codexes a year, it'd be a lot less of an issue. I wonder if this is serious or in the, "We'd like to Chaos Legion books" category. Maybe they can just roll them into the sixth edition SM codex with a few special characters.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Alpharius wrote:I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often!
The HURR!!!11! and Dakka are one. Remove one and the other will wither and die.
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Post by: jp400
Rumor or not, they really do need to anything other then Space Marines.
Not hateing, just saying....
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Post by: whitedragon
List of Space Marine/related books
Codex Space Marines
Codex Space Wolves (Scheduled to be re-written)
Codex Blood Angels (White Dwarf)
Codex Dark Angels
Codex Black Templars
Daemonhunters (Grey Knights)
Codex Chaos Space Marines
Other Races
Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines)
Tyranids
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tau
Imperial Guard
Witch Hunters
Chaos Demons
Orks
Thats 7 of 16 different races being Space Marines, and if you count Necrons, that's 8, or fully 1/2 of all codicies. So half of all of GW's stuff is Marines, and you are telling us to stop whining about Space Marines? You need to recheck your facts yo.
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Post by: 12thRonin
Something from the latest DLT podcast makes me wonder about this when they quoted GW saying "I can't believe we kept it secret this long" or the like. Maybe they finally realized the magic of cross-promotion.
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Post by: robertsjf
whitedragon wrote:Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines)
anorexic undead spase marienz?
1423
Post by: dienekes96
List of Space Marine/related books (with my comments)
Codex Space Marines (flagship race, gets redone with every edition probably as a baseline)
Codex Space Wolves (Scheduled to be re-written) - last took up design tradespace in 1999/2000, 6 models in 2003
Codex Blood Angels (White Dwarf) - last took design tradespace in 1998 (ELEVEN YEARS AGO)
Codex Dark Angels Sure, 1999, 2007, eight year wait between releases
Codex Black Templars sure, 2005
Daemonhunters (Grey Knights) - I disagree with this assessment, since this is also IG as well, with some Daemon love thrown in (adversary rules)
Codex Chaos Space Marines - this is also debatable, but not worth the argument on the internet, so this counts
Other Armies:
Necrons (Arguable still Space Marines) - the Tyranids are then "arguably" Orks. No dice. (2002)
Tyranids (2000, 2005)
Eldar (2000, 2007)
Dark Eldar (1998, ???)
Tau (2001, 2005)
Imperial Guard (2003, 2009)
Witch Hunters (2003)
Chaos Demons (2008)
Orks (2008)
whitedragon wrote:Thats 7 of 16 different races being Space Marines, and if you count Necrons, that's 8, or fully 1/2 of all codicies. So half of all of GW's stuff is Marines, and you are telling us to stop whining about Space Marines? You need to recheck your facts yo.
I don't think so. My facts, as posted in the SW goatrope thread, are based on the RELEASE schedule. Design tradespace = art, codex, NEW STUFF. How many armies GW "has" is irrelevant to my point. That presumes there is a set number of releases, and SM take up 6 of the DEFINED 16. That is your postulation. Mine is all about design tradespace. For which specialty Marine releases have taken up TWO SLOTS in the past 9 years, since I don't count Chaos...Chaos will always get theirs.
Here is a postulation of mine. GW can't support 16 40K armies. Space Marines provide a nice "shortcut" to enable a few extra armies to exist (space that would NOT go to a new race) while also comfortably supporting the bottom line.
So there, I have rechecked my facts, and find that red Marines haven't impacted GW releases for 11 years, grey ones for 9 years, and the green ones went 8 years between updates. That is worse than Tau, Tyranids, and IG. So I am comfortable saying that Dakka member's infantile whining about releases is unfounded based on the claims they make. As I pointed out in the SW thread, with the actual release dates conveniently ignored.
Yo.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I want Space Wolves to get a Codex, and soon, if only for a new SW accessory sprue that's sure to be full of conversion fodder.
But Blood Ravens? C'mon... what do they add to the game? And I don't care about whether the game gets another Marine release or not, but shouldn't you choose something that's quite a bit different to regular Marines (like the Wolves and Templars are)? Pskyer-Heavy Ultramarines does not make for an interesting book. We've got two slightly divergent Codex Chapters already (Blood & Dark Angels)... why do we want another?
I'll tell you what though, if Blood Ravens do get a Codex then they'll be stealign the ' Most Unnecessary Codex Ever' award from Codex aemons.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
But Blood Ravens? C'mon... what do they add to the game? And I don't care about whether the game gets another Marine release or not, but shouldn't you choose something that's quite a bit different to regular Marines (like the Wolves and Templars are)? Pskyer-Heavy Ultramarines does not make for an interesting book. We've got two slightly divergent Codex Chapters already (Blood & Dark Angels)... why do we want another?
They're all divergant codex chapters. None of them were needed. Why not blood ravens if space wolves are getting a full book? The loyal thousand suns are every bit as "legitimate" as the space vikings. They probably have better name recognition as well considering the success of the dawn of war titles.
I'll tell you what though, if Blood Ravens do get a Codex then they'll be stealign the 'Most Unnecessary Codex Ever' award from Codexaemons.
I'd argue that most of the marine individual subchapter books are "the most unnecessary codex ever". They aren't actually different armies, just different flavors of the flagship book. Flavors that could easily have been covered in said book.
The daemons at least provided a reletively fresh introduction to the metagame with their deep striking and a good bit of flavor beyond "SPACE MARINES ARE AWESOME AND WE ARE THE BEST SPACE MARINES THOSE OTHER CHAPTERS SUCK". Dropping the animosity hurt it though.
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Post by: dienekes96
Oh, I agree. I just don't even register Blood Ravens as a legit rumor. If they do get a Codex, I'll be dumbfounded. [cartman]This does not make sense![/cartman]
I am by no means endorsing more Marine releases beyond the established Chapters. And if they wanted to pair Marines up like Angels of Death (DA/BA, SW/BT), that'd be fine with me. But the notion that anything but the lethargic release pattern (since 4th edition) is to blame for the trickle updates is ignorant. Especially by folks blaming specialist Marines, who have barely been touched since SW in 2000.
That said, I agree with a previous poster who said Angelos should have been a character in SM. And his model should have come with the SE of Dawn of War II.
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Post by: TakeABow
I don't mind new chapters getting books, but it would be nice to see updated versions of established chapters first.
I would rather see every codex released in 5E than see new codices. SW, DE are finally getting their due, but lots of the lists need updating before GW should think about adding more SM sublists.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ShumaGorath wrote:They're all divergant codex chapters. None of them were needed. Why not blood ravens if space wolves are getting a full book? The loyal thousand suns are every bit as "legitimate" as the space vikings. They probably have better name recognition as well considering the success of the dawn of war titles.
I know there's no point in arguing this with you but Wolves and Templars have completely alien structures to Codex Marines. Their similarities lie in the weapons and equipment they use, and stop about there. Different squads, different organisation, and some unique Wargear. They are every bit as different to Codex Marines as Chaos are. Unlike, say, Dark Angels and Blood Angels, which are both Codex Chapters + a couple of unique units and some special rules. And I didn't think the Templars should have receive a Codex in the first place - they were a cynical attempt by GW to cash in on the 'broken' army from the Armageddon Codex, and when they didn't sell because they weren't broken any more, Graham McNeil lost his place as a Codex writer - but I like the concept of Crusading Marines enough (if not the execution) to want to keep them around. ShumaGorath wrote:I'd argue that most of the marine individual subchapter books are "the most unnecessary codex ever". They aren't actually different armies, just different flavors of the flagship book. Flavors that could easily have been covered in said book.
They did that once. It was called Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Remember what happened there? That's not to say that you're wrong Shummy - I'm sure that many if not all the current Chapters could be covered in a single book - but there's also the reality side to this. GW is a business, and their most successful product is Marines. Giving lots of different versions of Marines is a good thing for their bottom line... but Blood Ravens aren't a different version of Marines. There's nothing different about them (unlike Wolves, Templars or even the most Codex Adherent of the divergent Chapters, the Blood Angels) ShumaGorath wrote:The daemons at least provided a relatively fresh introduction to the metagame with their deep striking and a good bit of flavor beyond "SPACE MARINES ARE AWESOME AND WE ARE THE BEST SPACE MARINES THOSE OTHER CHAPTERS SUCK". Dropping the animosity hurt it though.
Ok, let's ignore the ALLCAPS drama for a second and just look at the Daemons. Deamonic Infestations are something in the fluff that happens rarely, so rarely in fact that GW gave them a whole Codex. Wha...? Anyway, the Daemon thing is unnecessary because it wasn't as if they just made a Daemon army, first they had to take Daemons away from CSM players, then make an army to appease them. That's bad design. There's no reason why the two couldn't exist at the same time, with the Daemon army getting their fancy rules and special characters, and the CSM army keeping their flavourful daemons that aren't generic.
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Post by: grizgrin
Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
I remember in 4th Ed you could have the Blood Ravens and the were different from Smurfs. They could infiltrate tac squads/ dev squads and take true grit as they had the traits; See, but don't be seen (which they decided to rename Shrike's old rule) and Trust your Battle Brothers.
I don't think they need a new dex, last edition you could get them with those traits and by taking two Librarians rather than a Force Commander with a Chaplain or Librarian. But with the 5th Ed dex and the "Special Characters make special armies" thoughts that all went away. Still though you could take old whats his name, Tigerius, and a Libby and boom Blood Ravens.
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Post by: Brimstone
grizgrin wrote:Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?
Complete and utter codswallop.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Note, everyone, that Brim simply said the rumour of 2010 was crap... wait, no, in fact he didn't say that at all.
All Brim said was that GW making room in their schedule for Blood Ravens in 2010 was crap. That doesn't necessarily mean that:
1. Blood Ravens aren't coming.
2. There wasn't already room in 2010 for them.
3. They're coming out after 2010.
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Post by: extermikator
A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series
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Post by: aka_mythos
I think this is silly. First I don't like the idea of the Blood Ravens getting a codex. GW created them specifically so THQ could produce a video game without GW and them stepping on each others toes. It would become a bit self defeating(EDIT: read this realized its exactly the sort of stuff GW does).
Also I don't think GW would be able to do them. The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format, while that might be a reason for giving them a codex the divergances are more to their disadvantage. Looking at the game as a template... (in addition to Librarians) they'd have Apothecaries as sgt upgrades, they wouldn't have as many of the vehicles to choose from, their Tactical Squads could take multiple special weapons while their devestators could have 5 heavy weapons. Their Rhinos could magically hold more than 10 marines. All this was really just a way to balance marines in a video game media and wouldn't translate back too well.
Honestly, if GW wants to do Blood Ravens they could just have them tied to a special character or two. Hell, at this point I think GW should just do a book of 20+ marine characters and cover a bunch of chapters with special characters. Lets get these Codex Chapters and all their variations on a theme covered and call it a day.
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Post by: krazynadechukr2
Wow. In the past I have posted completely credable info (I know the head GW west coast) and posted "leaks" only to get slammed with "no, you are wrong." and "You don't know squat." only to watch a plastic Valkyrie actually come out (posted that info 1 1/2 years ago), and was one of the first to post info on the Tau way back when, and no one believed it....Now I see a post about "whispers" of a Blood Raven codex, and nearly all posts here are "Oh, yes. Makes sense." and "It was just a matter of time." and so on.....That is so funny what people want to believe.........People already talking of what characters to include and all......When you first "hear" something might be coming out, count on a minimum 1 to 2 years before it ever happens (if it happens).
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Post by: aka_mythos
krazynadechukr2... don't take it personally. The simple fact is GW loves space marines. They wish everything was space marines. So when a rumor about space marines comes out everyone belives it, while rumors about any rumor that sounds good about any other army is dismissed. Its simply the way of things.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
aka_mythos wrote: The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format,
And that is precisely why they would need a Codex to codify their divergence from the Codex Astartes.
Of course, this being moar marinz, and cashing in on something "hot", I see no obvious reason to doubt it. But I'd rather see my BA get their printed Codex for ease of carrying and print quality readability.
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Post by: Brimstone
extermikator wrote:A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series
Would be nice, pity it isn't happening.
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Post by: aka_mythos
JohnHwangDD wrote:aka_mythos wrote: The simple fact is Blood Ravens in the game don't really follow codex marine format,
And that is precisely why they would need a Codex to codify their divergence from the Codex Astartes.
Of course, this being moar marinz, and cashing in on something "hot", I see no obvious reason to doubt it. But I'd rather see my BA get their printed Codex for ease of carrying and print quality readability.
My point is if GW follows the game as a template for a codex the Blood Ravens have little going for them because in the game they don't have access to all the toys marines normally do, and their advantages are rather limited. If you give them the toys all the other marines have they are not as they appear in the game and are only the same chapter in name. They also would end up being so close to the codex space marines they wouldn't need or deserve a codex. Over the course of the Dawn of War games you play as the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th companies. I think if those companies don't have access to particular equipment than none of their chapter really does.
On the flip side if you follow strictly the Blood Ravens as they are presented in the game you have something unique, though rather limited. As an army they'd be too greatly restricted and would suffer for it.
So there you are you either make them more than they are and ignore whats been presented of them or you make them too generic. Either way it makes them not viable. One way kills their fluff. One way kills their list.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If you look at Dark Angels and Blood Angels, they're pretty close to Codex, but have their little different, so BR would be like those guys. A little different.
GW can make BR Librarians uber as their special thing, esp if they can also be taken as Elites or Veteran Sergeant upgrades, like kSons.
Whether these kinds of things "need" or "deserve" a Codex is hard to say, but with DA leading the way, closely followed by BA, I'd say "sure, why not?".
Finally, what says GW won't kill their Fluff *and* their list?
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Post by: krazynadechukr2
well said.........there are12 confirmed projects coming from gw in the near and distant future.................if this ever sees the dawn of light, first count on it being a faq on gw web or a wd article like chap apprvd.......codex?maybe in 2+ yrs when all other confirmed projects are out.........ive heard of a whf nippon army in the works for 3 yrs now and recently rumours of a new whf army coming out....just saying...................
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh this is funny................original rumour of br codex was started.........................april 1st........lol.....................................(not this thread, but another).
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Post by: Lord of battles
I think I'd take up Warmachine.
Were Warhammer players go to DIE! 
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Post by: aka_mythos
JohnHwangDD wrote:If you look at Dark Angels and Blood Angels, they're pretty close to Codex, but have their little different, so BR would be like those guys. A little different.
GW can make BR Librarians uber as their special thing, esp if they can also be taken as Elites or Veteran Sergeant upgrades, like kSons.
Whether these kinds of things "need" or "deserve" a Codex is hard to say, but with DA leading the way, closely followed by BA, I'd say "sure, why not?".
Finally, what says GW won't kill their Fluff *and* their list?
Well I'd say DA are pretty close to codex, but Blood Ravens (unless drastically altered) are closer. They have more of an absence of options and not the addition of options that shift them away from being Codex. Without more than just Librarians, Apothecaries, and stretch rhinos they're a rather lacking trade off. "So I give up vindicators, typhoons, bikes and attack bikes for that?" will be the commonly heard opinion. Other than those nothing has really been shown as uniquely Blood Ravens than a prodigious use of Thunderhawks, deployable bases, and overgunned tactical squads. If they do have 5 heavy/special weapon tactical squads that would probably guarantee good sales...
If GW kills them fluff wise the next Dawn of War would likely revolve around a different chapter. I doubt Relic wants its game's protagonists story hampered by GW's rewriting.
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Post by: Balance
aka_mythos wrote:Well I'd say DA are pretty close to codex, but Blood Ravens (unless drastically altered) are closer. They have more of an absence of options and not the addition of options that shift them away from being Codex. Without more than just Librarians, Apothecaries, and stretch rhinos they're a rather lacking trade off. "So I give up vindicators, typhoons, bikes and attack bikes for that?" will be the commonly heard opinion. Other than those nothing has really been shown as uniquely Blood Ravens than a prodigious use of Thunderhawks, deployable bases, and overgunned tactical squads. If they do have 5 heavy/special weapon tactical squads that would probably guarantee good sales...
I think the 5 weapon tac squads is just how the DoW guys decided to handle Devastator squads isntead of making them another squad type that requires an upgrade, etc. etc.
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Post by: aka_mythos
I agree, but without the advantage of unit distinction in DoW all we have to look at is a unit that could take 5 special weapons or 5 heavy weapons. I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't follow what's been presented in the computer games it not really Blood Ravens. Its Relic and THQ's thing to mess around with. If GW chooses to mess aorund with it, then its no longer the same entity their claiming to present as "Blood Ravens".
5 specials or 5 heavy weapons on basic marine squad. While it likely is meant to represent Devastator squads, it opens it upto alot of interpretation. Does it mean Devastators can have 5 heavy weapons as opposed to 4, or does it mean their Devastators can take special weapons in place of heavy weapons, or does it mean tactical can do one but not the other, or any other combination of numbers of special and heavy weapons.
Point, if we interpret it any other way than it is, it isn't representing the same thing. This sort of interpretation only detracts from their uniqueness, which while appropriate diminishes the viability of their codex.
I don't think they should be done as a stand alone codex and your point only reinforces the fact that I was making before that they are either their own thing (which isn't much) or they are just like everyone else. Both undeserving of a codex.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If you look at a Chaos Havoc squad, they can mix-and-match Heavies and Specials. I don't see why BR couldn't do the same. I don't think other (Loyal) SMs doing this, so it's not a bad differentiator.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
But worth a whole book?
Special Weapon Dev Squads and extra Librarians =/= new Codex worthy.
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Post by: BrookM
It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Brimstone wrote:extermikator wrote:A Blood Ravens codex would be good, but it'd probably be too good, and have loads of amazing rules for the Ravens. Hope that they include the characters from the DOW series
Would be nice, pity it isn't happening.
If Brimstone says it, it's probably the truth. Guess that means either no Blood Ravens or no characters for Blood Ravens. Guessing the former rather than the latter.
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Post by: Neconilis
BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.
This... This I have to agree with. Damn C.S. Multi-laser Goto.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Now if GW was smart they'd out out metal character models with rules in WD.
But y'know, then they'd have to find a place to put all the money they'd make and that's sucha hassle.
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Post by: grizgrin
Brimstone wrote:grizgrin wrote:Hey everyone, I heard that GW is making room in their release schedule for the Blood Ravens early 2010? Can anyone confirm this, or is it BS?
Complete and utter codswallop.
I've no idea what a codswallop is, but since it sounds slimy and cold I'll take it to be negative. Thanks Brim, I have shipped said swallop back to the giver. That'll leave a mark.
aka_mythos wrote:krazynadechukr2... don't take it personally.
Happens to everyone.
Lord of battles wrote:I think I'd take up Warmachine.
Were Warhammer players go to DIE!
Sometimes. Othertimes the just become raving lunatic elitist crackmonkeys with a bent for disingeniously insulting people who don't see it their way. And sometimes they just remain gamers. But some of the absolute WORST attitudes I have seen in 16 years of wargaming have been from Hordesmachine players talking "like they got a pair."
BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.
Game, set, match.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.
Ah c'mon! Don't you want a special Blood Raven rule where all characters ride on top of their transports?
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Post by: BrookM
H.B.M.C. wrote:BrookM wrote:It would be worth a whole codex if it destroys what has been established by the Goto novels.
Ah c'mon! Don't you want a special Blood Raven rule where all characters ride on top of their transports?
Or where the terminators are fething midgets and squeeze into a Razorback? Hmmm, no thanks. Guilleman would would pull a face of distaste at the blatant disregard of his beloved codex Astartes. OR THE PART WHERE EVERYTHING TURNS OUT TO BE A COMPLETE MINDFETH AND THE BLOOD RAVENS AREN'T REALLY MADE BY ELDAR BUT INSTEAD BY THOUSAND SONS GUIDED BY THE ELDAR FOR SOME MYSTERIOUS SCHEME THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE CASSERN SEBASTION GOTO HAS A VERY UNHEALTHY LOVE FOR CONE-HEADED CHINA DOLLS. Bleh, however the feth did they get him to write that gak and get away with it. Or any of those novels for that matter. It's all about Eldar pulling strings in his books. edit. Oops, managed to circumvent the language filter.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I honestly think he had only the smallest idea what 40K was about, and might have seen a game where people were putting Sergeants or ICs or whatever on top of their tanks (like a lot of people do, our group included) to remind them what squad is in what vehicle. And from that he inferred that people ride on their vehicles.
Very silly. Not as silly as the author's fiat handwavium Rangers that are invisible and can hit specific internal organs from any range.
There were lots of really dumb deus ex machina moments in the Firewarrior novel, but it was entertaining, and the bit where Kais discovers that Titans are not Imperial propaganda but are in fact real was very cool. Dawn of War... wow... the only big I liked was the Chaos Lord bringing a Vyper down by ramming it with his Chaos Bike (stupid, but funny to imagine). Or was that the Blood Raven commander? I don't know.
SINDRIIIII!!!!!
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Post by: BrookM
A lot of authors bend the background over and have their way with it, just look at what Abnett pulls off again and again, but there should be a line as to how far you can take 40k into "your own direction". Though I guess Lucian Soulban, that OTHER horrible author is partially to blame for the Dawn of War debacle, he cowrote the ingame story.
Now Fire Warrior wasn't good or great but the author (Si) has shown great promise with Xenology and Lord of the Night. Goto on the other hand has produced nothing but Eldar-laced crap until now. Even his dream project, a novel about Eldar fighting Eldar is nothing but an overly idiotic and needlessly stupid plot about fantasy elves in space with magic, instead of 40k Eldar.
Goto once made a remark where he was amused at how displeased people were with his "version" of 40k.
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Post by: 12thRonin
To be fair, while Goto's work is pure crap Graham McNeil has some of the same elements. His heresy stuff has been pretty for the most part (Fulgrim *shiver*) the first part of the Ultramarine series is sketchy at times.
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Post by: grizgrin
Fulgrim was crap. Reading that book was like work.
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Post by: krazynadechukr2
GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......
OOOohhhh Raven Guard (Dawn of War II) is out....must mean a codex for them is on the horizon......NOT
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Post by: Sidstyler
Dawn of War... wow... the only big I liked was the Chaos Lord bringing a Vyper down by ramming it with his Chaos Bike (stupid, but funny to imagine). Or was that the Blood Raven commander? I don't know.
Only one thing is certain: he was out of bullets.
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Post by: Black Blow Fly
Are you guys sure Ravenguard have lots of psykers?
G
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
krazynadechukr2 wrote:GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......
None of which justifies or somehow 'explains away' bad writing. the C.S. MULTI-LAZOR GOTO books are horrid from far more than just a 'fluff breaking' perspective.
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Post by: Terminus
Seriously? MORE Space Marines? Update your existing armies first, you jackasses! At least release a new Inquisition codex before more marines.
That aside, a librarian/psychic-heavy army would be interesting. Like many, I'd probably end up using the codex to represent Thousand Sons, or another magic-heavy Chaos army.
dienekes96 wrote:List of Space Marine/related books (with my comments)
I don't think so. My facts, as posted in the SW goatrope thread, are based on the RELEASE schedule. Design tradespace = art, codex, NEW STUFF. How many armies GW "has" is irrelevant to my point. That presumes there is a set number of releases, and SM take up 6 of the DEFINED 16. That is your postulation. Mine is all about design tradespace. For which specialty Marine releases have taken up TWO SLOTS in the past 9 years, since I don't count Chaos...Chaos will always get theirs.
Here is a postulation of mine. GW can't support 16 40K armies. Space Marines provide a nice "shortcut" to enable a few extra armies to exist (space that would NOT go to a new race) while also comfortably supporting the bottom line.
So there, I have rechecked my facts, and find that red Marines haven't impacted GW releases for 11 years, grey ones for 9 years, and the green ones went 8 years between updates. That is worse than Tau, Tyranids, and IG. So I am comfortable saying that Dakka member's infantile whining about releases is unfounded based on the claims they make. As I pointed out in the SW thread, with the actual release dates conveniently ignored.
Yo.
Translation: "Hey, stop hating on Space Marines, it's not fair if you think about it logically! But it's totally fair to hate on Chaos! Good thing they got shafted their last release, hehehehe."
Your hypocrisy is staggering.
But whatever. SPESS MAREEHNS, VE AVE FAYLD DA EMRPAH!
Lord of battles wrote:I think I'd take up Warmachine.
Were Warhammer players go to DIE!
If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die. 
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Post by: BrookM
krazynadechukr2 wrote:GW once stated in a WD article that what you read in novels does not and will not always be or become canon in the game rules.....The two are seperate......So if a a novel comes out and there is a unit of marines that have two powerfists and some special armour that deflects psychic attacks, do not expect to see that option in a future codex........It is FLUFF only.......
OOOohhhh Raven Guard (Dawn of War II) is out....must mean a codex for them is on the horizon......NOT
BLOOD Ravens................................................
Not Raven Guard............................................................................................................................................................
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
terminus wrote:I'd probably end up using the codex to represent Thousand Sons, or another magic-heavy Chaos army.
Your hypocrisy is staggering.
If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die.
With those three lines I hope you see what I am getting at.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
H.B.M.C. wrote:But worth a whole book?
Special Weapon Dev Squads and extra Librarians =/= new Codex worthy.
Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex. If dawn of war 2 can somehow be taken literally the commanders would be sporting lost tech teleporters, the squad sizes would all be below minimum, furioso dreads would be commonplace, and scout shotguns would be fantastic. I don't think they deserve their own full book. A small piece in chapter approved or a larger one in a divergent chapters book, but just like the space wolves they are a "non codex chapter" about as much as any space marine army can be. That being not much, and certainly not enough to justify a full release before actual chapters of marines that are so divergent that they actually aren't even marines, but instead are different fething armies from different races. Especially when many of those races are functionally broken in the game itself and sport player bases orders of magnitude larger then "color" marines.
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Post by: grizgrin
terminus wrote:
If by "die" you mean "never be able to return to 40K because they can't stomach an inferior rules set", then yes, it's where they go to die.
Sure, if you like playing Magic: The Gatheringmachine. It has it's place, but which one is the better rulesset is highly debatable. I WILL give you that PP's writing is much tighter. But as far as the core rules I think it's more a matter of preferance. If you grew up loving Magic, then Gatheringmachine is the game for you.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.
Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
H.B.M.C. wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.
Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.
Everyone keeps telling me that, but I have that codex. I've read the fluff. I'm just not seeing it. It's just the regular book but with more chainswords and bloodclaws + really old. Having played against the book it doesn't play particularly differently then templars or blood angels. Just cheap scoring assault troops thrown at my face or deathstar supermen in their nice armor thrown at my face. In the fluff they are divergent, but then so are the raven guard. The best they've ever gotten is a single special character. The blood ravens are some sort of bastion of lost tech and psykers. They practically are still pre heresy sons of magnus. Their reason to be a standalone codex stands about as well as the wolves. Which isn't well at all. I would love to see them in a book featuring all the chapters, not a full codex slot. Those are meant to represent the "common" and major forces in the galaxy. Not a tiny fraction of one of those major forces. I wasn't a fan of grey nights in their own book, and I'm not a fan of the wolves now. There's still the adeptus mechanicus, practically half of the imperiums military might, almost totally unrepresented. The adeptus sororitas are forced into a halfdex with another army and some inquisitorial stuff. Too much marine ruins the variety of the setting in this game and it makes playing it unfun, since everyone plays the same supermen in space suits.
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Post by: lord marcus
well its different
look at rune priests, 1 power where every other libbie has two. and its basically a weather creator.
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Post by: warboss
i'd be happy as a clam if gw came out with another combo book (like eye of terror or armageddon) that gave a few different chapters 2-3 special characters and a few units for the more varied marine chapters. personally, i don't think any marine chapter needs it's own codex when you have other complete races that haven't been updated in 5+ years. just because you previously had a add-on codex means your army still deserves one. and that's coming from someone whose first and most memorable army was the (now neutered) blood angels!
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Post by: grizgrin
You dont think they would do that for Planetstrike or maybe Space Hulk, do you? A combined codex/list like Armageddeon? Admittedly, GW is trending away from such a thing pretty hard, given the size of some of the recent codexesxs. They're tomes.
But it would be nice, and a way for them to release lists at a greater rate. If the didn't feth it up.
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Post by: TakeABow
I honestly don't see why they couldn't implement the rules for most variant chapters with the special character thing
(when XXX is in your army, you may do YYY and ZZZ, and not WWW).
Or we could just get a cool Adeptus Astartes book again, with variant rules for each chapter, possibly a special character for each.
e.g. If you take Blood Ravens, you may only take 0-1 Terminators and 0-1 Assault Terminators, but also may take some "lesser Librarian" in place of a sergeant for some points cost.
I played back when they had the Iron Warriors 0-1 fast attack, 0-4 Heavy Support + Warsmith with Servo arm.
I miss the variant rules.
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Post by: grizgrin
You know I really can't stand the whole spec char dynamic you just described. I'm not even sure why, but it just repulses me. HOwever, if it meant we could get more timely updates and codexes; I think I would go for it.
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Post by: TakeABow
^^ I would PREFER to have either a small variant rules to the whole "If Vulkan is in your army, then..." stuff.
A 5 page entry per variant army, with all their special quirks and possibly a few army list entries would be perfect.
Make a book full of them (8-10). There is already plenty of fluff for most armies anyhow, they wouldn't have to write more.
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Post by: BrookM
And where might we find this fabled background? On the GW site? The WD?
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Post by: TakeABow
There is quite a bit in the Index Astartes book - (which came from WD).
WD has quite a bit of fluff crammed into it over the years. Sorting through it all would take forever.
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Post by: BrookM
That was sarcasm, WD has been devoid of good background for quite some time and the IA articles have been made obsolete over time with the Horus Heresy novels and other publications.
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Post by: aka_mythos
The most they deserve to get are collecter edition minis that come with some ridiculously overpriced edition of the computer game.
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Post by: two_heads_talking
Malika2 wrote:Nah Mr T is too busy selling cooking equipment on tv nowadays to be a Chapter master!
No, he's a nightelf mohawk, selling world of warcraft..
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Post by: Flashman
two_heads_talking wrote:Malika2 wrote:Nah Mr T is too busy selling cooking equipment on tv nowadays to be a Chapter master!
No, he's a nightelf mohawk, selling world of warcraft..
That's funny, over here he's selling Snickers bars on TV. He is a busy chap...
And with that valuable insight, I have reached 350 posts! I thank you
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Post by: grizgrin
BrookM wrote:That was sarcasm, WD has been devoid of good background for quite some time and the IA articles have been made obsolete over time with the Horus Heresy novels and other publications.
I dont know if obsolete would really be true. Didn't I read some place that GW came out an said tha tthe Black Library novels were stories in-univers, and not necessarily canon? I am pretty sure I saw that, someplace. Wish I could give a reference but hey...
If the BL books aren't canon (y'know, there's a concept in the 40k universe that's really just funny), they they are making anything obselete. Looking at some of those books, They sure as hell aren't being treated as canon in the game rules (yes, yes, yes. i know, I am now muddying the waters with the old Fluff vs. Rules debate, but that fails to come close to invalidating the point), what with Abnett's Guardsmen who can kill anything, Goto's absolute Rubbish, and others.
I think trying to hold BL products as anything close to canon except in the absolute broadest of senses, is just not going to hold water under any kind of inspection.
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Post by: JKeown
I think Codex: Dawn of War, timed with the release of the next expansion to DoW2 would be the best bet. All the characters from the game, in one book, plus any variant squads the game employed. Match this up with new models for all these folks and it would be a slam-dunk. Almost every player would have some interest in it.
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Post by: BrookM
I doubt Dawn of War 2 is going down the expansion road, rather I think it will go with other games and do the DLC road instead.
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Post by: LordWaffles
I'm hoping for that wonderful legions codex. I'll take a big ol' pass on Codex:Less red than red marines.
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Post by: Gaznab
I am blown awatyu by this the marine in me likes it but wishes it would have come later the actual person in me thinks this is ridiculous ... I want every other codex to come out I want no more marine different chapters. At the point that you are making the blood ravens a full codex chapter than why not the Imperial Fists and the white scars and crimson fists and every other freaking codex chapter just cause they do things slightly differently. I understand the concept that this is a money grab based on popularity of the DoW game however then why is their not pre heresy armies and pre heresy codices due to that fact that those books you havent at all been the best selling GW has ever produced or anything *dripping with sarcasm*
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Post by: olympia
I hope the Blood Ravens get a codex asap. I can only try to imagine the rage and disappointment of someone who plays DoW2 and then wants to stark table-top 40k only to discover that they have to play Ultramarines. oh the humanity.
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Post by: blaktoof
I dont see any models being invalidated by a Blood Ravens codex, fluff aside all marine armies =marines.
the "divergent" chapters basically have 100-80% of the same exact units, just some of the units have a few special rules. Usually a chapters has 1-2 different unique units then some of their units are renamed and have either a slight modified statline, and or different equipment/transport options.
Going with the marine codex model of chapter specific heroes replacing the special rules for the army and adding a few statline changes or weapons options would pretty much be any space marine chapter.
Honestly You could pretty much do a 2 page codex for every marine chapter and just reference codex:ultramarines aka the standard marine codex and do each chapter justice.
that said even if there was a blood ravens codex released, all your models would prolly be valid without any modification done to them whatsoever.
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Post by: combatmedic
I hate it when people say DA's are the closest to vanilla marines. We didnt use to be. We use to have more than just a few special characters and bikes/termys for troops...
Just like BA used to be.
Not to worry though. Once the new SW codex comes out, then they will be just like us Angels and have a few cool characters and pinch of spice to make it "feel" different.
Seriously why not just do a huge chapter approved book with all the SM chapters in a $50 book. Each chapter is different in its own way with unique rules and equipment but pulls from the same basic marine statline and equipment tabels, just like the old days.
Then have a Chaos version.
Id buy a $50 codex if it meant 4+ armies where getting updated at the same time.
Just sayin is all, Ill probably get booed now.
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Post by: wyomingfox
Alpharius wrote:dienekes96 wrote:jmurph wrote:You don't understand. Different colored marines are so different they need an entire codex to explain how different they are. Fighty black religious marines are *nothing* like fighty grey viking marines or fighty red marines (not to be confused with psyker red marines or red techmarines who work with every chapter). This is why we need so many different marine codexes. Because they can't just be reflected by paint schemes and unit selection.
Never let facts get in the way of a good rant. GW has released two "different chapter" Codicies in the last 8 years... BT in 2005 and DA in 2007. Yeah, they updated the main SM book every time they pumped a new version out, but expecting otherwise is imbecilic.
The actual problem is that GW is now releasing about two books a year for armies. But the other argument is much cooler.
I hate Space Marines! Yay!
Thank you dienekes96!
I'm thinking of having a new Censure Point system installed here at Dakka to help curb all the "Spase Marinez HURR!!1!!" crud that cycles through here way, way too often!
Oh... God Bless you BOTH  Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:Blood claws wolf priests =/= new codex.
Troll less Shummy. It'll do wonders for your blood pressure. And there's a lot more to Wolves than Blood Claws and Wolf Priests, so, again, give it a rest.
Yes, let us count the ways...AGAIN
Exclusive Skills at the time SW came out: SW had true grit, counter assault, were not effected by overwhelming numbers in CC, and accute senses
Servitors for Techmarines, who BTW were IC
LF were 5 man squads that could split fire, the only unit in 3rd to do that till the Tau Codex came out.
Scouts were elites and were the only unit capable of coming off the back board.
Venerable Dreadnoughts, exclusive to SW till 4rth
Wolves
SW were the only SM with squad sizes above 10 (Blood Claws) untill BT came out.
Blood Claws had WS and BS 3, had rage and doubled attacks on charge
None of our Troops choices got Heavy Weapons, relatively unheard of in 3rd Ed.
SW terminators were customizable and couldn't deep strike.
SW were the only SM army that could drop pod.
SW had a Leman Russ.
Storm Caller Psychic power allowed SW to attack first in CC
No Command Squad
Veteran Sergeants (WG) were not upgardes but add on units to squads
More and cheaper CC weapon options for squads
ECT!
Again, SW were nothing like BA, BT, or SM back in 3rd. They were almost as divergent as 3rd Edition CSM. Again, if SW closely resemble SM now it is only because GW has been handing out traits, skills, and units to other armies that were at one time exclusively SW like Govenment Welfare checks.
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Post by: Commander Jimbob
MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR BLOOD RAVENS TO COME OUT!!! (This is my first post by the way )
I just started collecting them cos I love their colour scheme and cos they are so cool on Dawn of War!!!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Commander Jimbob wrote:This is my first post by the way
No kidding.
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Post by: reds8n
Commander Jimbob wrote:MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR BLOOD RAVENS TO COME OUT!!! (This is my first post by the way )
I just started collecting them cos I love their colour scheme and cos they are so cool on Dawn of War!!!
Hello Mr. Jimbob, welcome to Dakka.
I'll just point out that generally it is bad form to attempt to "bring back to life" an old thread if you don't have any really pertinent or useful information. There are posting guidelines that explain this and the rest of the forum rules, they are worth perusing.
With regards to the topic at hand it is extremely unlikely that we will see a codex release/similar for the Blood Ravens any time soon.
.... we might well see a chapter with Blood in their name but...anyway.
I'm sure people would be very happy to see our army and/or discuss fluff/army lists etc in the relevant boards.
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Post by: Vermillion
Well, say the rumour is true you know know why they did away with traits. To make more marine codices and ignore DE, eldar, necrons and the inquisition (though I suspect they'll be on their way at the end of 5th to become useless in 6th).
All GW really need to do is stick a load of chapter tactics in there instead now to enable people to make variant marines. Personaly I liked the traits idea and had ben planning a scythes of the emperor army with the restricted terminators/dreads choices and less FoC options as drawbacks, and a nartheculum or however it is spelled in each squad. They need the gene seed back for rebuilding after all . Think a second option was special weapons instead of heavy weapons in tac squads too.
They should really just get off their profit margins and obsession to sell even more space marines and knock out the codices that NEED an update. They want variant marines just add chapter tactics for people to choose from in a white dwarf, someone will stick it up on the ent in a pdf for us with more sense to give GW that much money for what should have been toilet paper.
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Post by: radiohazard
I call...
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Post by: Brimstone
Commander Jimbob wrote:MAN I CAN'T WAIT FOR BLOOD RAVENS TO COME OUT!!! (This is my first post by the way )
I just started collecting them cos I love their colour scheme and cos they are so cool on Dawn of War!!!
Shame it isn't going to happen.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.
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