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New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:04:07


Post by: Canonness Rory


Here are, IMO, the codices which need updating to 5th edition, in descending order of importance:

1.) Dark Eldar. They're using what, a second edition codex? New Models too.
2.) Inquisition. Both armies. New Models too.
3.) Tau. They don't have a single very good unit, even railguns are only single-shot, and meltaguns are better. Good model line though.
4.) Necrons/Tyranids. Both of these are equally shafted by 5th edition. Tyranids definetely need some freakin plastics, necrons need some more diversity in units!
5.) Chaos Space Marines. They have a couple abusable units, but the rest are garbage. All the cult marines need to be equal in power, one should not shine over the other, daemon princes need to cost more, oblits need to be 0-1
6.) Eldar. Still a strong codex, needs some plastic models, autarchs and most of the fast attack section needs rebalancing.
7.) Chaos Daemons. Still a very strong army, but definitely need new models.
8.) Codex: Different colored space marines. I admit some new models would be well recieved, but you can field your current army as vanilla SM if you're really that worried about balance. You already have 4 imperial armies, do you need 4 more (not to mention the mini-codices like Movie Marines and deathwatch kill-team)? Why don't Eldar get Codex: Ulthwe or Codex: Biel-tan, or Tau get Codex: T'au and Codex: Bork'an? Space Marines are already the most supported army with the best models and most representation, with orks a not-so-close second, why do they need 5 freakin codices?

Post your list here, or call me names for disagreeing with your opinion, whatever.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:09:42


Post by: garret


no space wolfs belong at number 1. not de. noone plays de


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:13:19


Post by: Canonness Rory


Plenty of people play Dark Eldar.
You do not need another space marine codex. Play them as Vanilla if you care so much about having a winning army. New model line? Maybe, but every other old codex needs a new codex worse than space wolves.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:13:28


Post by: Jon Touchdown


Canonness Rory wrote:Here are, IMO, the codices which need updating to 5th edition, in descending order of importance:

1.) Dark Eldar. They're using what, a second edition codex? New Models too.
2.) Inquisition. Both armies. New Models too.
3.) Tau. They don't have a single very good unit, even railguns are only single-shot, and meltaguns are better. Good model line though.
4.) Necrons/Tyranids. Both of these are equally shafted by 5th edition. Tyranids definetely need some freakin plastics, necrons need some more diversity in units!
5.) Chaos Space Marines. They have a couple abusable units, but the rest are garbage. All the cult marines need to be equal in power, one should not shine over the other, daemon princes need to cost more, oblits need to be 0-1
6.) Eldar. Still a strong codex, needs some plastic models, autarchs and most of the fast attack section needs rebalancing.
7.) Chaos Daemons. Still a very strong army, but definitely need new models.
8.) Codex: Different colored space marines. I admit some new models would be well recieved, but you can field your current army as vanilla SM if you're really that worried about balance. You already have 4 imperial armies, do you need 4 more (not to mention the mini-codices like Movie Marines and deathwatch kill-team)? Why don't Eldar get Codex: Ulthwe or Codex: Biel-tan, or Tau get Codex: T'au and Codex: Bork'an? Space Marines are already the most supported army with the best models and most representation, with orks a not-so-close second, why do they need 5 freakin codices?

Post your list here, or call me names for disagreeing with your opinion, whatever.



Iagree with your order, damn space wolves can wait


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:16:20


Post by: Orkeosaurus


I think orks need an update.

They're not powerful enough to compete with the new Space Marines and Guard.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:17:33


Post by: Mars.Techpriest


I agree with DE being #1, I don't think army is as old or incompleate as they are. I also agree with Inquisition, if for no other reason then to bring them inline with the 2 other Imperial armies they work with the most (SM&IG).

I would love to see the Tau get a new codex, but I don't think it's as important as the Necron, who are more in need of model variablity & rules adjustments.

I'm not sure how much the chapter specific marines are needed, But with most of the work layed out in C:SM, They still provide a good return-on-invenstment being relitivly easy to write.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:40:03


Post by: Eight Ball


Yeah, Necrons should DEFINITLY be higher in that list (#3 at least) as there is so many things that could be fixed, or at least written out better, take a look at YMDC for example, and more/better units, so they aren't so screwed in 5th edition. Even Tau and Inquisition are more competitive that Necrons most of the time...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:46:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Oh goody. Another 'Space Marine Hate' thread combined with a who 'deserves' a Codex thread.

What fun.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 00:49:36


Post by: Timmah



1. Dark Angels
2. Blood Angels
3. Space Wolves
4. Black Templar



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:04:10


Post by: Slackermagee


I disagree with the DE synopsis. DE work, they can win games... even tourneys. They have units which work in their own special way (even if it seems like they should be riding the short bus at times). Necrons are almost completely garbage. No, wait... they are complete garbage now.

Imagine that the niches to be filled in a codex are gaps in the wall of a subway. The incoming train is the 5th edition BRB. The necrons have maybe four units (of the what... eight in their codex?) which actually fit into one of these holes. The other four to six units are stuck on the tracks ready to be run down.

I agree with inquisition in the number two slot, as allied forces they need to neatly fold into their foster armies.
#3 should be DE. It doesn't matter how many people play with it, the people they play against need to not bleed from their eyes.
#4 could be Tau or Nids. Both took big hits to effectiveness in their key units.

Agreed with everything else. While Space Marines are the best seller... they have a fifth edition codex. Do the run around with the rest of the races before coming back to the extra fluff Marines people like to play. Don't take this as 'let them eat cake' so much as 'let everyone else get a slice first'.

With regards to Orks: Why?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:08:03


Post by: Cheese Elemental


1. Ultramarines
2. Blue Space Marines
3. Opposite of Red Space Marines
4. Half of the Mix of Yellow and Blue to make Green Space Marines
5. Dark Light Blue Space Marines
6. Light Blue-Black Space Marines

In that order.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:29:33


Post by: sourclams


Space Marines need a new codex every four days because there are a thousand Space Marine Chapters and every one is different.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:49:38


Post by: garret


well to bad because space wolf are getting theres next.
niner,niner,niner,


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:55:59


Post by: Bookwrack


Slackermagee wrote:With regards to Orks: Why?

He's trolling.

Space Wolves are next, and that's fine.
DE aren't helpless, but they really need some attention and to be brought up to the current edition.
Necrons need to be adapted to the current ruleset, they're pretty much dead in the water as is.
DH really needed an update last edition too.
Soritas are still a very strong army. To bad the Inquisition side of things is pretty much lame.
Both Tau and Tyranids both have issues, but they've never played for me as being too far down the power tier.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 03:56:50


Post by: LunaHound


garret wrote:no space wolfs belong at number 1. not de. noone plays de


Thats because their codex is 9 years old!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 04:07:01


Post by: Epaminondas


I have both a SoB and GK army. Both of them work fantastically and let me be the first to tell you that neither of them NEED anything changed to their codices.

...However, everything about Inquisitorial units sucks. They should probably just revamp the ENTIRE Inquisition line of things, sans Sisters and Grey Knights. The Inquisitorial units available to the Sisters are the same damned things available to the Grey Knights, so they should actually probably just group them all into one BIG codex, (Chaos Codex style) and make sure the Inquisitional units are more effective.

As it stands, the Daemonhunters codex has been rendered ineffective against daemons, but the good thing is that they are still good at killing everything, daemons included. I foresee that if GW made a change to the DH codex, they would trash their major advantages against everyone to make them more effective against Daemons specifically, which i wouldn't care for much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IMHO the army that could use a new codex the most is the Squats. Except this time make them a more serious army in line with the grim darkness of the 41st millenium.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 04:15:35


Post by: garret


this is order of who will most likely get one
1: space wolfs
2:bt
3:da
4:chaos marines.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 08:24:04


Post by: rzsanguine


This would be nice but at GW's pace it will take ten years or more.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 08:38:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


sourclams wrote:Space Marines need a new codex every four days because there are a thousand Space Marine Chapters and every one is different.


'Cept for Chaos. There's only one type of Chaos - the Chaos kind - so they don't need (nor should they ever have or have had) variant lists.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 08:41:20


Post by: firebat


We'll all have gray hair by the time GW releases the Dark Eldar codex, TBH I can't stand the GW pace of things. 9 years since a new dex? Come on...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 10:04:23


Post by: RustyKnight


1. Necrons
2. Dark Eldar
3. Inquisition (as one large book. GK and SoB heros unlock more GK/SoB units)
4a. Tau
4b. Tyranids
5. Space Wolves OR Black Templar- Let all the armies get updates before more marines
6. Eldar
7. Chaos Space Marines
8. Space Wolves OR Black Templar
9. Blood Angels and Dark Angels should, in my opinion, just be redone as a PDF supplement to C:SM called,"Angels of Death". It'd have all the SC's and some of the codex specific units.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 11:14:11


Post by: A-P


Not counting Space Wolves because they are getting an update, I would go with the following:

1) Dark Eldar. Simply for the fact that after the SW update they are the oldest by severals editions .
2) Inquisition ( DH & WH ). Two old armies that are highly thematic and more importantly tie in with all the other Imperial armies.
3) Necrons. After 5th came they are basically stuck with 1-2 copypaste lists because half their units are rubbish. Oh, and WBB needs update ASAP. 90% of all questions concerning Necrons seems to revolve around WBB .
4) Tyranids. Simply remove all the old redundant symbionts and rules, clarify the use of Hive Mind powers, add some credible Anti-tank.
5) Eldar. Nothing major or earthshaking. Update point costs and do some polishing for 5th and you should be fine.
6) BT/DA/BA. MEQ gang for the last because who really wants MEQ/Imperial all day long? Consolidate the rules and wargear ! Enough with this insanity of 3-4 different variants of the same weapon.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 11:58:20


Post by: usa_supersonic


With the new uitis...GW can't make any more new unitis with every codex- imagine..there will be a bunch of uinits-and in time the should remove some old units... and that is not possible for the people who alreadyy have them

Second there are people who play only pure armies- Like pure tau no Krot or Pure GK- and in the Daemonhunter if they do major changes like not allowying to have a Dread or etc. they might loose a lot of players

So the codex should mainly give some abilities or points costatos to the existing units-if a new unit emerges it's fine...but usually does in Apocalypse games-where you can choose from greater # of units

If they eradicate a Codex-like BA DA GK etc. then a lot of players could not play anymore

Emerging of new army---that is also a thing to consider


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 13:43:15


Post by: Gwar!


HA HA! Space Wolves coming out next! nah nah nah!

But Really, once SW are done, GW need to haul ass and update the DE, Necron and Tyranid Codexes, and re release Chaos marines as Codex: Chaos Legions and Codex: Chaos Renegades


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 13:49:30


Post by: Demogerg


Please Read Sig.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 13:53:02


Post by: Gwar!


Space Puppies FTW!

Interesting Note: Space Puppies are the Oldest Codex in Use, Being Printed in April of 2000, the next being Necrons, then Daemonhunters and ONLY then Dark Eldar.
Sauce:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_%28Warhammer_40,000%29
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 14:02:37


Post by: Flashman


Funny how we all seem to want xenos codicies, but GW only ever seem to give us Marine ones.

I blame the brats that populate GW stores at the weekends. They should be banned from buying Space Marines until they're old enough to know better.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 14:03:00


Post by: HellsGuardian316


Without trying to show bias as I'm a SM, Tau and ork player (all of which have had recent codex's in the last few years) ...

I'd personally go with

1. Dark Eldar (joint)
1. Space Wolves (joint)
3. Tau (only because the new LOS have nerfed them a bit so I want one! lmao)
4. Witch Hunters/Inquisition
5. Necrons
6. Tyranid

Marines with exception of Space Wolves do not need a new codex. Eldar, Ork and Chaos are relatively new so they should take a back-bench personally until the other older codex's are brought up to date

Would be nice to see some alternatives for Eldar players and the Chaos players as they seemed to have simply disappeared. Iron Warriors for example and Ulthwe.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 15:26:45


Post by: mindfield


Daemonhunters can be first since commercial wise they sell more models? Or maybe i'm biased towards my first army in this hobby, hehehe.
Anyways I agree also with putting them inline with their IG brothers at arms, it makes perfect sense. New models for Daemonhunters? absolutely like more independent characters or tanks!!! yessssss!!!!!
A superheavy for crushing heretics and daemons!!!! hehehehe


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 17:16:44


Post by: Caffran9


I'd go this way:

1. Dark Eldar
2. Necrons
3. Tyranids
4. Tau
5. Inquisition (should be one big codex with options for each of the three denominations)
6. Space Wolves (they have acceptable rules for numerous marines armies already and thereis no point in adding more then 5 other armies need drastic updates as well. SW players can "suffer" through using rules for one of the other marines lists for a while... something the other armies literally are not allowed to do)
7. Eldar
8. Chaos


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 17:28:42


Post by: Sidstyler


garret wrote:well to bad because space wolf are getting theres next.
niner,niner,niner,


Congratulations, you're the first person I've ever had the pleasure of using the "Ignore" feature on.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 21:19:03


Post by: Dracos


Gwar! wrote:Space Puppies FTW!

Interesting Note: Space Puppies are the Oldest Codex in Use, Being Printed in April of 2000, the next being Necrons, then Daemonhunters and ONLY then Dark Eldar.
Sauce:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_%28Warhammer_40,000%29
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks


This being the case, I would say (order of preferred release)

1. Space wolves
2. Necrons
3. Inquisition
4. Dark Eldar
5. Tyranids
6. Tau
7. Angels of death (blood/dark angels)
8. CSM


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 21:23:00


Post by: Gwar!


Sidstyler wrote:
garret wrote:well to bad because space wolf are getting theres next.
niner,niner,niner,


Congratulations, you're the first person I've ever had the pleasure of using the "Ignore" feature on.
As much as I know the mods will hammer me for this, I suggest you (that is Sidstyler) follow my 4 Step Program™(Pat. Pen.):
Step 1) Unclench
Step 2) Let the Rod Fall out
Step 3) ...
Step 4) PROFIT!

@Dracos: I'm taking a guess but would that be in order of "Who has the oldest to newest"?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 21:52:59


Post by: Sarge


1. Necrons
2. Dark Eldar
3. Tau
4. Chaos Legions
5. Chaos Renegade
6. All Space marine codexs AT ONCE
7. A good Necron codex
8. Eldar


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:02:35


Post by: abhorsen950


I agree with the Dark Eldar, Tau And Necrons
there all in serious need of updates now


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:08:12


Post by: Gwar!


No, the Tau do not need an Upgrade.

Why?

Because they are an Unwanted, Unneeded race who have gotten 2 codexes while Armies deserving of Updates (Dark Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition etc) have been left wanting


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:19:13


Post by: Clthomps


1. Codex Humanoid Xenos scum (Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, Corsair Eldar, and even the silly Exodites, and Tau)
2. Codex Mindless Xenos Scum. (Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks.)
5. Codex Adeptus Astartes (stick all the funny colors in one book)
6. Chaos Codex of doom!!! (all they really have to do is throw out the current codex and reinstate the last one.)
7. Codex Emperor Loving freaks (IG, DH, WH)

That should cover it.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:28:26


Post by: Gwar!


7? Are you mad? We should just have 1 Book, with all the Army lists in it.

I am sure nothing like that has ever been tried...

Oh wait, 3rd edition!

Looks like they decided not to go that route.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:40:20


Post by: Stucer


Necrons definatly need a face lift with our units being updated and hopefully with a few more on the way. WE really just need to have alot more variaty and options.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:52:21


Post by: Dracos


Gwar! wrote:@Dracos: I'm taking a guess but would that be in order of "Who has the oldest to newest"?


Essentially. 5+ years with no update is pretty ridiculous. Everyone should get a turn to be the New Hotness.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:54:59


Post by: Gwar!


Dracos wrote:
Gwar! wrote:@Dracos: I'm taking a guess but would that be in order of "Who has the oldest to newest"?


Essentially. 5+ years with no update is pretty ridiculous. Everyone should get a turn to be the New Hotness.
Years without a new FAQ is even worse.

GW need to take a page from WotC and update their Errata and FAQ's every 3 to 6 months. There is No excuse for them not to, they are just being lazy. If Yakface and co can make the INAT FAQ in their spare time, 1 dude with a Dakka Account and a Marker being paid to could fix it up in about 2 weeks


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 22:56:42


Post by: Dracos


Very true. I used to play MTG, but stopped a couple years ago.

Their rules support is light years ahead of GW.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 23:02:17


Post by: CT GAMER


This is what should happen:

1. Dark Eldar

2. Necrons

3. Tyranids

4. Ordo Xenos

5. Codex cults: LATD, Genestealer cults, etc.

6. New alien race

7. Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus

8. Codex:Ecclessiarchy


This is the reality of what will happen:

1. Tyranids

2. Necrons

3. Some space marine variant

4. Space marines

5. New Rules edition

5. Space Marines

6. Some space marine Variant

7. Dark Eldar

8. Some space marine variant

9. New rules edition

10. Space marines...


You get the idea...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 23:03:43


Post by: dietrich


I didn't hear a Hurr! in there!

Give the Governor a Hurr!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 23:04:35


Post by: Dracos


Okay call me a n00b, but I am unfamiliar with what exactly Ordo Xenos, Adeptus Mechanicus, and Ecclessiarchy would be.

Anyone want to fluff me up?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 23:06:51


Post by: Gwar!


Ordo Xenos: Deathwatch (In a Word)
Adeptus Mechanicus: Some sort of Genetically Engineered Super Soldiers... Oh Wait... Oh Perhaps more Bionically Enhanced Super Soldiers then
Ecclessiarchy: Sisters of Battle.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/01 23:45:11


Post by: CT GAMER


Gwar! wrote:Ordo Xenos: Deathwatch (In a Word)
Adeptus Mechanicus: Some sort of Genetically Engineered Super Soldiers... Oh Wait... Oh Perhaps more Bionically Enhanced Super Soldiers then
Ecclessiarchy: Sisters of Battle.


More specifically i'd like to see Codex: Ecclessiarchy becasue I think the whole religious zealotry side of thr Imperial faithful is so core to Imperial/40k fluff and makes for good modelling and good game/scenario fluff, etc.

This codex would expand the Eclessiarchy beyond sisters to include HQ choices like Confessors, Missionaries and so forth, have variant load out Penitent engines and arcos, , rabble troops like zealot mobs and fraternis militia, and have the various Ecclessiarchy special characters like Kyrov(sp?), etc. Would make for an awesome army both in fluff, imagery, modeling potential, etc. Of course GW will never do it, it makes too much sense.



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 16:23:03


Post by: Thunder555


Eldar and Dark Eldar codex should be merged together. That way we'd need to read only one book about girly space elves.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 16:26:20


Post by: abhorsen950


It has to be the top to boys Necrons and some new models
and Dark eldar as they are both popular
aso the inquisition need an update and try and get some plastics out there


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar! wrote:No, the Tau do not need an Upgrade.

Why?

Because they are an Unwanted, Unneeded race who have gotten 2 codexes while Armies deserving of Updates (Dark Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition etc) have been left wanting


Thats true i say tau because my brother loves them and a lad i know collects them
but i say on a bombshell its definetly DE and NEcrons and they are too of my fave armies
yet they are so over shadowed
its dissapointing

ABH


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S Necrons if are updates next i think should get a couple more troop choices and a couple more tanks pr transports as i think the monolinth is a bit old now and it would be good to see a big tank

ABH


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 16:58:04


Post by: slice of toast


C: AdMech could easily be done in a mini-dex.

Grouping codexes together in a two-fer isn't a half-bad idea. But would they both suck? Would only one be terrible? Would they both power creep their way to the top of the charts?

C: Ecclessiarchy would be fun, but C:WH is already quite competative. Really, just C: DH needs an overhaul. I guess I'm quite terrified of the idea of GW nerfing my Sisters army after I go to all the work to paint it even though all the CC units are unplayable.


Gwar! wrote:

GW need to take a page from WotC and update their Errata and FAQ's every 3 to 6 months. There is No excuse for them not to, they are just being lazy. If Yakface and co can make the INAT FAQ in their spare time, 1 dude with a Dakka Account and a Marker being paid to could fix it up in about 2 weeks


QFT.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 17:04:28


Post by: Avrik_Shasla


I love and hate Space Marines...they are like the village bycycle, everyone gets a ride on them, and not only does everyone get a ride, but the amount of illegitimate offspring brought into the world because of that fact is staggering. And since everyone know it's their children, they are ALL going to be loved.

Anyway more Space Marine BS, Space Wolves are still pretty fing badass, if anything the new codex will nerf them.

This is my List

1# Dark Eldar (I'm sorry, they are about a decade over due)
2# Tau (I say this because 4th edition Tau special abilities mainly revolved around them not needing to take Target Priority..and boom...5th comes out, no more TP)
3# Tyranids (Over due obviously)
4# Necrons (They are relativity new, but they haven't been touched)
5# Something new, I'm saying a new race, something That is small, perhaps a coalition of small mercenaries from across the Galaxy; 40k Dogs of war perhaps?.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 17:09:01


Post by: Dracos


Avrik_Shasla wrote:1# Dark Eldar (I'm sorry, they are about a decade over due)
4# Necrons (They are relativity new, but they haven't been touched)


http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks wrote:

Necrons 3rd Edition Necrons Codex July 2002
Dark Eldar 3rd Edition Dark Eldar Codex November 2003


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 17:24:45


Post by: Gwar!


Dracos wrote:
Avrik_Shasla wrote:1# Dark Eldar (I'm sorry, they are about a decade over due)
4# Necrons (They are relativity new, but they haven't been touched)


http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks wrote:

Necrons 3rd Edition Necrons Codex July 2002
Dark Eldar 3rd Edition Dark Eldar Codex November 2003
The Second Printing Doesn't really count Dracos you know that


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 17:33:26


Post by: Dracos


Okay you're right. It did get some new stuff but was basically the same


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 18:43:23


Post by: Epaminondas


My friend just told me that putting WH and DH together in the same codex would be like putting IG and Orks together in the same codex because Ork players can loot tanks.

Why are Space Wolves getting a new codex at all? Until i heard that they were getting a new codex, i thought they were just another lost and forgotten variant of Spess MEhreens that no one ever played, sort of like the Praetorian IG.

I recede my earlier statements, DH don't need a new codex at all, but DAMN could the ENTIRE INQUISITION use some plastics! GK and SoB are entirely metal. (I hate metal models. I'm a bigger fan of Forgeworld resins.)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 18:51:09


Post by: tastytaste


My List.

1. Necrons
2. Dark Eldar
3. Nids
4.Tau
5. Eldar
6. CSM

GW really needs to stay away from Space Marines for a bit once space dogs comes out.

My friend's blog has a pretty funny rant about why Space Marines variants are lame.

http://bloodofkittens.com/?p=705


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 18:51:46


Post by: SsevenN


Tastytaste my sig loves your list.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 19:59:52


Post by: JohnHwangDD


List time!

I'll go 3x3 for my list(s)...

1. Armies which need Codex updates
1. Space Wolves -- oldest Codex without an update, only Codex requiring another Codex to play
2. Sisters of Battle -- a fully-functional, stand-alone army that never should have been hit with the =I= stick; solves half of the Imperial Allies problem by removing stand-alone Witch Hunter Inquisitors
3. Necrons -- Codex with the most rules problems still in print

2. Armies which will get Codex updates
1. Space Wolves -- and about time!
2. Tyranids -- oldest "major" Codex not to get an update (Eldar, Orks, CSM, SM, IG all done)
3. Blood Angels -- only SM Codex not printed and sold as a Codex

3. Armies which never get another Codex
1. Dark Eldar
2. Squats
3. Pan Fo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dracos wrote:Essentially. 5+ years with no update is pretty ridiculous.


Gwar! wrote:Necrons 3rd Edition Necrons Codex July 2002
Dark Eldar 3rd Edition Dark Eldar Codex November 2003


Pfft.

Warhammer Armies: Dogs of War -- 5th Edition WFB -- July 20, 1998

That's right, we're closing in on 11 years of no update.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 20:19:12


Post by: garret


i think all codexes should be in pdf style. sur that will never happen because they get to much money.
but the reason why.
1. we dont have to pay for it.
2. faster updates to codexes.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 21:29:04


Post by: abhorsen950


DE and Necrons need updates and very soon

ABH


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 21:34:24


Post by: EzeKK


Tau are probably low on the list. They can still be good. Then again so can Dark Eldar.

1. Dark Eldar

2. Necrons

3. Daemonhunters / Witchhunters

4. Tyranids


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 22:19:18


Post by: Epaminondas


garret wrote:i think all codexes should be in pdf style. sur that will never happen because they get to much money.
but the reason why.
1. we dont have to pay for it.
2. faster updates to codexes.


You can download all of the Codices as pdf's off of torrents.

BUT THAT IS WRONG.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 22:20:04


Post by: Gwar!


Not to mention a bit harder to take to games


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/02 22:22:26


Post by: EzeKK


Gwar! wrote:Not to mention a bit harder to take to games


Not if you write down what you need to know =P. Then if you have to show your opponent a rule just quietly grab a store book and show your opponent and put it back.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 00:57:23


Post by: jp400


Or its on your laptop in interactive format on your touch screen..

BUT THAT IS WRONG!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 01:25:57


Post by: Epaminondas


jp400 wrote:Or its on your laptop in interactive format on your touch screen..


I have a Toshiba Tablet PC for a laptop, and that wouldn't be a bad idea if not for the fact that it is HERESY.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 01:32:55


Post by: Food Store Hero


Playing Devil's Advocate on some of the New Codex Requests

If you think about it in a strange way... Dark Eldar are one of the cheapest Armies to run. If you built a Dark Eldar army years ago... you could still virtually have the exact same army.. playable.. without any major rules changes and be just as "effective." True, some of the more upgraded armies might have a tick bit of a side boost, but you're army is still completely legal! At no point in time have you had to worry about spending more money for yet -another- codex just to keep up with legality and fair play. None of your units are suddenly bunk or rendered ineffective due to a new rule change within your own codex. , you might even have most of the points costs memorized by now!

Next is the Necrons. I'm proud of the fact that I have the exact same Codex as when i first started them... and it still counts! And for variety of units, I don't really see Necrons as being a fully customizable varied army. I see Necrons and think "We are Legion. We are Many." My Necron army consists mainly of Necron warriors and I love it for it's absolute simplicity. Sure, it's not a vast army of drastically different models and poses, but for an army of faceless soulless robots... that's kind of what I'm looking for.

So, in conclusion, keep on pumping out those Space Marine Codices because people will buy them! Space Marines are basically the most popular race within the game. Meaning, when you switch the most popular race's rules up with new codices constantly, that plugs more money into the system. More cash means more new stuff (and of course lines their pockets more, but the hope is there that seeing as they won't go out of business, they'll continue updating and advancing the game.) Have Fun!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 03:36:12


Post by: Crazy_Carnifex


I would put the order like this:
1) Wolves. Ancient Codex that needs extensive FAQ to mesh with the current marines 'Dex. Hopefully will satisfy Games Dev's Marine addiction for a few months.
2) Dark Eldar. Ancient Codex, Crudy models. Like a classic car, cool, but could use some rust removal.
3) Necrons. One of the Older Codices, they could use some changes to deal with the new game.
4) Nids. Still playable, but struggle vs. Mech.
5) Tau. A lot of their rules are useless (all pertaining to target Priority).


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 08:44:14


Post by: abhorsen950


Im watchin this but its all about necrons and DE


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 09:29:45


Post by: Corpsesarefun


Canonness Rory wrote:Here are the codices which need updating to 5th edition, in descending order of importance:

1.) Necrons, shafted by 5th edition and need some more diversity in units!
2.) Tyranids also shafted by 5th edition, definetely need some freakin plastics.
3.) Tau. They don't have a single very good unit, even railguns are only single-shot, and meltaguns are better. Good model line though.
4.) Chaos Space Marines. They have a couple abusable units, but the rest are garbage. All the cult marines need to be equal in power, one should not shine over the other, daemon princes need to cost more, oblits need to be 0-1
5.)Inquisition. Both armies. New Models too.
6.) Eldar. Still a strong codex, needs some plastic models, autarchs and most of the fast attack section needs rebalancing.
7.) Dark Eldar. They're using what, a second edition codex? New Models too.
9. Chaos Daemons. Still a very strong army, but definitely need new models.
10. Orks, recently updated
11. Ig recently updated
100.) Codex: Different colored space marines. I admit some new models would be well recieved, but you can field your current army as vanilla SM if you're really that worried about balance. You already have 4 imperial armies, do you need 4 more (not to mention the mini-codices like Movie Marines and deathwatch kill-team)? Why don't Eldar get Codex: Ulthwe or Codex: Biel-tan, or Tau get Codex: T'au and Codex: Bork'an? Space Marines are already the most supported army with the best models and most representation, with orks a not-so-close second, why do they need 5 freakin codices?



Fixed it


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 19:17:30


Post by: solkan


Because I don't want to be left out of the trolling and counter trolling...

1. Space Wolves, because it'll be fun listening to them complain about being nerfed and "Just not the same any more. "
2. Necrons, because the arguments about WBB and SA are just too annoying, and it's just too weird seeing people taking C'tan and Heavy Destroyers. >.>
3. Tyranids, because the monstrous IC rule in the rulebook needs a codex to override it explicitly, instead of just ignoring it.
4. Tau, because they're clearly not shooty enough.
5. PDF Marines (whatever their name is), because Space Marine players need to pay for their codices like the rest of us.
6. Dark Eldar, because everyone wants to see how bad their lists get without any armory options.
7. Dark Angels, because GW needs to try to get more money by making the Ravenwing and Deathwing seperate codices.
8. Black Templars, because the Rage USR is so lonely.
9. Ultramarines, because by this point, don't we need another Space Marine codex?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 19:21:19


Post by: JohnHwangDD


@solkan: nice!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 21:46:58


Post by: abhorsen950


Ide also like to see a CSM Update as everyone seems to hate the codex

why is that?

ABH


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 21:48:29


Post by: Gwar!


abhorsen950 wrote:Ide also like to see a CSM Update as everyone seems to hate the codex

why is that?

ABH
The codex is actually the most balanced. It is just because the Old Codex was so broken, people didn't like losing it.

It is also rather Bland and Lacking the Ability to accurately represent the Chaos Legions


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/03 22:46:18


Post by: garret


I dont get why everyone is hating space marines.
there a great army. they have the most models in the entire game and the most plastic models and alot of people play them.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 02:53:43


Post by: CT GAMER


garret wrote:I dont get why everyone is hating space marines.
there a great army. they have the most models in the entire game and the most plastic models and alot of people play them.


You just answered your own question.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 03:09:52


Post by: garret


I dont get it though.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 03:23:27


Post by: the_emperors_renegade


well i'd say de first EXCEPT if smebody can explain the rule for the screaming jets + shooting: in the rulebook it says no model can shoot out of a transport that moved more than 6" in the movement phase, and with the sreaming jets t rhe de raiders can deepstrike but apperently count as moving over 6"...BUT its open topped...can the models shoot or not!!Coz this is the most important question for the whole codex imo ...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 04:27:50


Post by: Trasvi


DE first. They are most in need of a complete, 100% model line overhaul.

Necrons second, because they need new stuff! Their list is so bland.

Daemonhunters/Witch-hunters third, as a combined codex. Their models are fantastic, but all metal, and it would be good to see if an inquisition army could be done just as well in plastic.

Nids... coz their codex is getting old

Tau ... coz they don't have any 'power combo unit of DOOM'.



Last, Codex: Different Coloured Marines. Why do they need something that can't be represented reasonably well with just the Vanilla list?
If they *Really* needed to be done, I'd release "Codex: Angels of Death" (BA and DA).


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 15:07:19


Post by: CT GAMER


garret wrote:I dont get it though.


Ever heard the term "front runner"? Some people sort of detest the glee with which so many people jump on the bandwagon of things that are popular...

You also have whole segments of the player population that have been burned (sometimes multiple times) by GW when whole armies and ranges are dropped (I still can't sit straight from when LATD and genestealer cult went bye bye). You also have people like DE players who have been sidelined and neglected while the stuff for SM just keeps getting pumped out one shiny new toy after the other...

What it boils down to is:

The popular kids in school always revel in their own coolness, and those that have been marginalized revel in detesting those cool kids...



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 15:58:25


Post by: Barakia


I guess I should start with my list.

1-DE Almost as old as Necrons, and have more issues. Well duh, they're emo elves.
2-Necrons Older than anyone but SW, and sorta limited. I should know (more on this later)
3-SW The HQ every 750 points is annoying, and they -are- the oldest non-updated.
4-Tyranids
5-Anything else past that.

That being said, our lil gaming group just had a tourney. My buddy playing DE came in first, I came in second with my necrons, leaving behind.. GK, IG (with old codex though, we had started before the release), Orks and an Armoured Company list. So it does show that even lists in need of an update can do decent, depending on the players.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 16:17:46


Post by: NeedleOfInquiry


All space Marine codex should be stopped in place without anymore work on them until all other codex are updated. Period.

We have one Codex still on Version 2 and several others just as bad. I would remind Game Workshop that the writers get paid by you. If they have some problem updating other Codex just let them go. Other wise you get crap like the below.

Allied Daemonhunters and Allied Witch Hunters are NOT ALLOWED in other armies.
This from a major tourney conning up in Texas in August. The reason?
We had too many strong Imperial armies and wanted to give the poor traitors and xenos a more level playing field. After spending some time working armies we determined that IG + Inquisition Armies would be the de facto best choice if allowed (Furious Charge on Grey Knight Terminators, Mystics + Demolisher Squadrons, Scouting Penitent Engines, the list goes on) and have too many locals who could field that sort of army. Our rules allow very strong Inquisitorial armies to be built, but limit the madness to some degree.


The madness apparently coming from old WH and DH codex matched with newer other codex.

Message to Game Workshops. Update ALL Codex to same edition or come down hard on those who use codex edition differences to ban certain rules. Like not attending those tourneys that do so and withdrawing support for them.

Make a choice.





New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 16:57:34


Post by: thesilverback


1) Dark Eldar - old needs to be brought into line with current codexes
2) Space Wolves - old needs to be brought into line with current codexes but still very playable
3) Inquisition - combine all into one codex
4) Necrons - still good but need work
5) Tau - 5th edition needs slight rework
6) Blood Angels - they just got messed over with that WD codex thing

Everybody else still has a playable army. At this point I would rather see a new race.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 17:46:57


Post by: JohnHwangDD


NeedleOfInquiry wrote:The madness apparently coming from old WH and DH codex matched with newer other codex.

Nice. IG move to top tier, so naturally, the CSM and Ork players say "NO"...



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 19:14:13


Post by: garret


CT GAMER wrote:
garret wrote:I dont get it though.


Ever heard the term "front runner"? Some people sort of detest the glee with which so many people jump on the bandwagon of things that are popular...

You also have whole segments of the player population that have been burned (sometimes multiple times) by GW when whole armies and ranges are dropped (I still can't sit straight from when LATD and genestealer cult went bye bye). You also have people like DE players who have been sidelined and neglected while the stuff for SM just keeps getting pumped out one shiny new toy after the other...

What it boils down to is:

The popular kids in school always revel in their own coolness, and those that have been marginalized revel in detesting those cool kids...


well i guess that makes since.
but marines are there most selling army so it makes business since to give them the most love.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 20:16:48


Post by: karnaeya


IG : Tanith first and only

IG : Steel legion

TRaitor Guard

Chaos Legions

Ad Mec



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 20:39:02


Post by: Xevious


I'd love to see DE, currently only 2 things are putting me off doing an army: the models and the rules


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 20:57:39


Post by: Vaktathi


Canonness Rory wrote:Here are, IMO, the codices which need updating to 5th edition, in descending order of importance:

1.) Dark Eldar. They're using what, a second edition codex? New Models too.
2.) Inquisition. Both armies. New Models too.
3.) Tau. They don't have a single very good unit, even railguns are only single-shot, and meltaguns are better. Good model line though.
4.) Necrons/Tyranids. Both of these are equally shafted by 5th edition. Tyranids definetely need some freakin plastics, necrons need some more diversity in units!
Agreed on most counts, although tau vehicles are all very good with a 5pt upgrade for a 4+ cover save.


5.) Chaos Space Marines. They have a couple abusable units, but the rest are garbage. All the cult marines need to be equal in power, one should not shine over the other, daemon princes need to cost more, oblits need to be 0-1
They do need a Legions book, but I see no reason on earth why Oblits need to be 0-1. they are only truly horrific if Lash is involved, other than that, the other HS choices are just kinda lame is the main problem.


6.) Eldar. Still a strong codex, needs some plastic models, autarchs and most of the fast attack section needs rebalancing.
While all true, they really don't need an update that bad. They are still IMO one of the top 3 armies.


7.) Chaos Daemons. Still a very strong army, but definitely need new models.
They need their deployment rules fixed and plastics.



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 21:10:19


Post by: Grim.Badger


Last I heard, from a GW manager, is that DE are being done as we speak BUT they aren't rushing it as it will be a 100%(ish) rebuild of the army; brand new models and codex, they are making it a labour of love and are making sure they are doing it right. Should be done within a year if the rumours are true.

Rumour is that Squats may make a return, but as the Demiurg (see Gothic), an addition to the Tau army....

Personally I think the non-codex marines could all be lumped into one PDF; don't bother with tactical squads etc as they will be the same as the codex marines, but put in the special characters, Furioso, Deathwing etc.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/04 21:15:44


Post by: Barakia


What a great idea.. Antagonize what few DE players you have right now by totally screwing them over, and tempt new players with an army you won't update for 10 years, and then will totally redo.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 07:50:37


Post by: Kettu


NeedleOfInquiry wrote:
The madness apparently coming from old WH and DH codex matched with newer other codex.

Message to Game Workshops. Update ALL Codex to same edition or come down hard on those who use codex edition differences to ban certain rules. Like not attending those tourneys that do so and withdrawing support for them.

Make a choice.


That's smart, lets further cripple the ancient dexes because the rules that were given to make them a balanced army (As per their reasoning) because it can be exploited.

And Double Lash? Nob Bikers?

CT GAMER wrote:
garret wrote:I dont get it though.


Ever heard the term "front runner"? Some people sort of detest the glee with which so many people jump on the bandwagon of things that are popular...

You also have whole segments of the player population that have been burned (sometimes multiple times) by GW when whole armies and ranges are dropped (I still can't sit straight from when LATD and genestealer cult went bye bye). You also have people like DE players who have been sidelined and neglected while the stuff for SM just keeps getting pumped out one shiny new toy after the other...

What it boils down to is:

The popular kids in school always revel in their own coolness, and those that have been marginalized revel in detesting those cool kids...


Well, that and whilst every army as plastic options to various degrees and a Battleforce, with SM I can't find any metal non-character options without easy conversions from another kit. The Sisters and the Grey Knights havn't got a single plastic option in the entier army.
Part hate the cool kids, part hate their privileges.

---

EDIT: Left out some key words in my last paragraph last time round, Fixed now.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 07:55:05


Post by: Emperors Faithful


I agree that Dark Eldar should be 1st.
But then Spaz Wolvz 2nd.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 07:56:09


Post by: CT GAMER


Epaminondas wrote:I have both a SoB and GK army. Both of them work fantastically and let me be the first to tell you that neither of them NEED anything changed to their codices.
\

Well I'd like to see the SOB get all that silly WH stuff dropped from there codex if you get my drift...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kettu wrote:

Well, that and whilst every army as plastic options to various degrees and a Battleforce, I can't find any metal non-character options without easy conversions from another kit the Sisters and the Grey Knights havn't got a single plastic option in the entier army.
Part hate the cool kids, part hate their privileges.


I'd love some platic SOB. I don't think we will see it in our lifetime however. The SOB are too Niche/2nd tier to get that much love from GW...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 07:58:53


Post by: JohnHwangDD


CT GAMER wrote:Well I'd like to see the SOB get all that silly WH stuff dropped from there codex if you get my drift...

I'd love some platic SOB.

QFT!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 08:01:33


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Witch hunters work WELL, IF you know wat you are doing...

They could use a little bit of spit-and-polish but nothing radical. I think their biggest problem is how they work with the inducted guard. (Do Vets Replace Armoured Fists?)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 08:14:13


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Sure, but C: WH should still return to being C: SoB, and the leftovers mean that C: DH can pick up enough units to become a real Codex.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 08:51:09


Post by: crazypsyko666


my two cents:

1) DE by principal
2)ALL inquisition, that means:GK, SoB, deathwatch, and assassins
3)necrons
4)tyranids
5) NEW RACE!!! i'd say make one about the remnants of the old ones.
6)combine chaos, add chaos IG, don't change the stats. add into it the options to make a CSM army, a Daemon army, a chaos IG army, or a mix of them all. (basically four different FoC organizations.) give them the SM chapters treatment, but in-codex.
7)Tau
8)Adeptus Mechanicus (robot soldiers, WITH ROBOTS!!! xD)


all xenos armies are in DIRE need of versatility in comparison to the imperial armies, and alot of armies of the same faction should just be made into one army, i.e. chaos, inquisition.


Just a thought, give the eldar a codex for some of the very different craftworlds?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 09:04:15


Post by: Noisy_Marine


I'm all for combing chaos marines and demons. It'd be like .... the last chaos codex. If GW is feeling really frisky they could throw traitor guard in there. And how about a HS choice besides oblits that isn't lame?

I say stop all the major imperial codices and work on xenos, chaos, inquisition, etc. Especially now that we have new codices for space marines and IG. Give the fringe armies some love.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 09:20:06


Post by: whitestagg


Yeah, I am down for a new race. And I hope they never upgrade Space Wolves because they are going to end up giving them some BS like 'evey other marine can take a PW and all SW vehicles count as assault vehicles' and then we are right back where we were in early 2000.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 10:02:28


Post by: solkan


whitestagg wrote:Yeah, I am down for a new race. And I hope they never upgrade Space Wolves because they are going to end up giving them some BS like 'evey other marine can take a PW and all SW vehicles count as assault vehicles' and then we are right back where we were in early 2000.


They'll claim it all started as a simple typo, "All SW vehicles can assault," instead of being assault vehicles, but from there is just snowballed. First Chambers wrote the tactica article proclaiming that the new, improved rhino rush was back, and then the Space Wolf dozer-claw accessory sprue was produced, and there was Jervis, writing up the White Dwarf article between jello-shots. In the words of one of the playtesters, "I think they're quite balanced at WS4 and S6, but 20 quid says that the top rules question is whether the rhino's can charge after moving 12" on a road."

Why can't I sleep? I'm being haunted by the images of giant power claws mounted on the front of rhinos.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 10:06:18


Post by: Emperors Faithful


@JohnDwangDD: So you're saying instead of Witch Hunters and DeamonHunters there should be SoB and Inquisition?

Interesting, but I think the Codexes work well enough as is. I really don't use them on thier own that match. They just add a heap load of flavour to my guard components.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 10:09:34


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Yep: standalone Sisters, and Inquisition that can ally with IG or Sisters.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 12:43:33


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Standalone sistas codex would be about...oh, 10 pages wide. Anyway you can already HAVE a standalone sista army with the Witch Hunter Codex.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 13:36:42


Post by: Demogerg


the list as I see it

1. Space Wolves. They deserve it. its been a long time.*
2. Dark Eldar. Also been a long time.*
3. Necrons. Uncompetitive and convoluted rules.
4. Nids. Got shafted by the current metagame.
5. whichever codex is then outdated by the metagame shift from the last 4 codices changing the game again.

*NOTE: Space Wolves and Dark Eldar are both still very competitive, so neither "Need" a new codex, however, you must have standards, and if you start talking about how old your codex is, then Space Wolves go first.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 16:33:47


Post by: Kettu


Emperors Faithful wrote:Standalone sistas codex would be about...oh, 10 pages wide. Anyway you can already HAVE a standalone sista army with the Witch Hunter Codex.


I know, I mean it isn't like the Daemons got new units with theirs... Or IG... Or SM...

Oh SNAP!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 16:37:30


Post by: Fifty


Squats. (NOT Demiurg)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 17:02:47


Post by: crazypsyko666


Fifty wrote:Squats. (NOT Demiurg)


ONLY if they don't become MEQs




they need to make the armies more different


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 18:43:58


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Emperors Faithful wrote:Standalone sistas codex would be about...oh, 10 pages wide. Anyway you can already HAVE a standalone sista army with the Witch Hunter Codex.

I believe that you've mistaken C: SoB with Pamphlet: Assassins...

In any case, if you go back to the 2E C: SoB, it was considerably more than 10 pages. Indeed, it was thicker than any 3E Codex printed, because Sisters actually have "Fluff"...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 18:48:25


Post by: Gwar!


JohnHwangDD wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:Standalone sistas codex would be about...oh, 10 pages wide. Anyway you can already HAVE a standalone sista army with the Witch Hunter Codex.

I believe that you've mistaken C: SoB with Pamphlet: Assassins...

In any case, if you go back to the 2E C: SoB, it was considerably more than 10 pages. Indeed, it was thicker than any 3E Codex printed, because Sisters actually have "Fluff"...
Back in 2E, GW actually gave a toss about the background and their players.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 19:00:11


Post by: Tyras


Any codex that hasn't been updated in five years or more should be a priority. GW needs to get their act together with their FAQ/Errata though. As an example the DA codex could be brought in line with the current SM codex in less than ten minutes in the FAQ. Hell GW could make money while they're at it. I.E. Dark Angels can use the Thunderfire Cannon See Codex Space Marines. Updating the FAQ would not only take just a few minutes, but wouldn't bump other codexes on the release schedule.

For Armies that don't use (or could possibly use) more than one codex, like Tau, but are still in need of changes despite having a fairly recent codex the FAQ could be used for the few minor tweaks to bring them in line with current codex levesl of power/ utility.

Having to wait for years for a new codex drives people away from the game more than it drives them to purchase a new army. It's bad for the hobby. That, and the release of a codex does not have to correspond with the release of new minis for the army. It's nice, but I'd rather have updated rules to at least make what I already own on equal footing with other armies than have to wait for the artists and production crew to go through the whole process of making a new model. They'd still make the money. People will buy the codex on release and that hot new mini six months down the road when it came out.

I feel for the armies with a 5-9 year old codex.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 22:43:59


Post by: Frenzied Potato


I was sitting around wondering when I should get the ork codex thinking 5th edition means new codexes for everyone. After reading this thread I went to look at the dates of them. The way GW runs their rules is probably the same way General Motors runs their, well not anymore...Hmm GW ...GM .....

The entry for Sadist from Websters Online Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sadist

Pronunciation:
\ˈsā-ˌdi-zəm, ˈsa-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
International Scientific Vocabulary, from Marquis de Sade
Date:
1888

1: a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object) — compare masochism2 a: delight in cruelty b: excessive cruelty

Maybe not so much 1 as it describes them better with the other definitions though sometimes I wonder...

Gonna go buy Ork Codex... Cheers
Btw to stay on topic.

Now with more of an informed opinion based on dates and those I play with.

1. Space Puppies (way too damn long)
2. Tau...the LoS is a major issue and friend went into a manic depression...loves the game that hates him. Plus he has a dire hate of krout, Thinks stealth suits should be troop choice.
3. Tyranids....Been awhile and my friend is sick of fielding the same crap etc...
4. Sisters of Battle...The next army I want
5. Necrons...Same reason as Tyranids


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/06 23:51:57


Post by: CT GAMER


Emperors Faithful wrote:Standalone sistas codex would be about...oh, 10 pages wide. Anyway you can already HAVE a standalone sista army with the Witch Hunter Codex.


Sisters codex could easily be expanded on to include more sensical Eclessiarchal allies like bringing back Confessors and Missionaries as HQ options, Fraternis militia and Zealot mobs, include special characters like Uriah Jacobson, etc., etc.

Sisters got shoe horned into codex WH because it was a convientant way to accomplish two things at once:

1. put out some option for an updated list for the sisters players to shut them up

2. solve the issue of the WH codex needing models/units to fill thr role that GK play in the DH codex.

It was a half-hearted gesture at best. IF sisters can be showhorned into an Inquisital codex then all space marines should be in one book since space marines as a whole have far more in common with each other (regardless of chapter) then ordo hereticus and SOB do...



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 00:55:58


Post by: crazypsyko666


you know what would be cool for a new race? a slann crossover from fantasy to 40k. light, magical, fast and deadly guys. still, remnants of the old ones would make cool armies.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 00:57:02


Post by: Emperors Faithful


@CT Gamer: True, it could easily be expanded. But as is it would not be very diverse. (only 1 troop choice).

@JohnDwangDD: Yeah, you're absolutley right...exceeeeeeept the little/teensy-weensy fact that assasis can only be used when an Inquisitor is part of the force.

If you want a sista codex, you'll get a sista codex but don't even START to claim that assaisins could EVER be in a sista codex.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:07:19


Post by: JohnHwangDD


I don't understand the issue. Assassins go under Inquisition, rather than Sisters.

If I want an Assassin in my Sisters force, I'd take an allied Inquisitor as well. Same as IG would.

Perhaps you misunderstood something?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:09:32


Post by: Emperors Faithful


U were talking about combining the Assasin dex with the sista one.

Anyway, could the sista army mesh as easily with allies if they had their own dex?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:15:13


Post by: JohnHwangDD


No, I said "standalone Sisters, and Inquisition that can ally with IG or Sisters."

Nowhere does that imply Assassins in the Sisters Codex.

OTOH, if you're going to bring up my comment on "Pamphlet: Assassins", then that simply means that you weren't around back when Codex: Assassins was originally published, so you don't know what I'm talking about.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:25:55


Post by: CT GAMER


Emperors Faithful wrote:@CT Gamer: True, it could easily be expanded. But as is it would not be very diverse. (only 1 troop choice).


Zealots (as seen in CA) and fraternis militia (from way back) would bring it to three troop choices and that is just adding in old units that they canned from past SOB lists, etc.

If they want to squeeze out some idea for a foruth so be it, if not those three would easily suffice.



New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:29:24


Post by: JohnHwangDD


I'd be good with Zealots and Frateris Militia coming back to the Sisters book, tho I'd like to see them tied to HQ Priests, as retinue options.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:35:33


Post by: Emperors Faithful


@JohnHwangDD: Sorry, my mistake.

General: I don't think anyone will HAVE zelots and frateris militia. They seem like grot-fodder. It is a good idea though, what units have they canned from the sista force?

Zealots and Frateris Militia are just nowhere near as dependable as Sistas, or even inducted guard for that matter.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:36:37


Post by: RustyKnight


Grim.Badger wrote:
Personally I think the non-codex marines could all be lumped into one PDF; don't bother with tactical squads etc as they will be the same as the codex marines, but put in the special characters, Furioso, Deathwing etc.

I like this idea, but GW would never give out that much info for free.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:41:07


Post by: CT GAMER


JohnHwangDD wrote:I'd be good with Zealots and Frateris Militia coming back to the Sisters book, tho I'd like to see them tied to HQ Priests, as retinue options.


I could live with that.

Have an 0-1 Priest option that allows you to buy 1-5 priests like currently. make it a requirement to always attach a priest to any such zealot or fraternis militia unit unless you have a Confessor or Missionary HQ in your force.

Also continue to limit arcos and penitent engines to only being present if same is present (must have minimum of one priest, Missionary or Confessor in force to have any of either).

Bring back The Uriah Jacobson special Character (love that model) and have him boost or accentuate ecclesiarchy units in some way, whatever, just give me the crazy guy with the shotgun back!!!

I could see them developing a couple varient loadouts/configurations for Penitent engines as well and maybe same for arcos.

Throw in Some expanded/revised acts of faith and or holy themed wargear.

Yes please...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emperors Faithful wrote:

Zealots and Frateris Militia are just nowhere near as dependable as Sistas, or even inducted guard for that matter.


Dependable? This is about theme and fluff and playing with style. The Ecclesiarchy and the zealou side of the Imperial faithful are a major part of the aesthetic of the Imperium and the dark, brooding gothic setting of the 40k universe.

The fact that they are insanely zealous rabble looking to burninate you and charge to their deaths In the name of the Emperor is the whole point...

IF you want "dependable" go build one of the typical cookie cutter tourney armies for various other armies and be done with it. Playing sisters should be about playing with style and representing the fanatical coolness that is the Ecclessiarchy.

The fact that such a bedrock part of Imperial fluff doesnt get it's own codex is a crime and a travesty...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:47:14


Post by: Emperors Faithful


The army should probably be slightly playable as well though. Zealots aren't going to help much...are they?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 01:50:25


Post by: CT GAMER


Emperors Faithful wrote:The army should probably be slightly playable as well though. Zealots aren't going to help much...are they?


Really?!? I have three twenty strong units of them and they tear $h!t up (nothing like a mob w/ five or so Str 6 power weapons, rerolling hits with a priest on the charge packing a couple of meltas or flamers to boot and a ton of wounds and an aversion to ever breaking)!!! Some of my regular opponents have nightmares about them. Even when they don't rock face themselves they are useful as fodder to keep enemy units occupied, screens for important sisters units, etc. ,etc.

Such a unit has a variety of uses and is ultra fluffy, AND fun as hell to convert and model.

Also since you already claimed that a stand alone force is already playable what would it hurt to add these options for those who want to field them? Those that don't see the playability of them can stick to all sisters same as now. Variety and options is not a bad thing especially when GW had no problem taking peoples money that invested in such units before...

What am I missing?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:01:10


Post by: Gwar!


TBFH, Sisters do not need their own codex. What they need to do is A SINGLE Inquisition Codex, that is modified depending on your HQ.
For Example:

HQ:
A Inquisitor Option
A Grey Knights Option
A SoB Option

Elites:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
Grey Knight Termies
SoB Elites
Assassins (Does NOT need an =][= to use and always 0-1)
Storm Troopers (Can be taken as Troops if HQ Inquisitor is taken)

Troops:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Battle Squad
Grey Knights Squad
Tactical Squad (always 0-1)
Scout Squad (always 0-1)
Infantry Platoon (=][= Option)

Fast Attack
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Seraphim
Grey Knights Option
Valkaries/Vendettas (=][= Option)
SM Assault Squad (always 0-1)

HS:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Dominions
Pentnant Engine
Exorcist

Grey Knights Dreadnought
Grey Knights Purgitation Squad
Land Raider (and Variants)(Needs GK for no 0-1)
Orbital Strike (always 0-1 and needs and =][=)

0-1 from following list:
Whirlwind, Vindicator, Devastator Squad

Any thoughts? Yes it is a Huge list, it is basically 3 Codexes in 1


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:06:09


Post by: Emperors Faithful


@CT Gamer: S6 power weapons?!? Wat are these things?!? Certainly not human or fair, that's for sure.

Anyway, I think the codexs are fine as is. Sure they need to be revamped. But not drastically.

DeamonHunters have Grey Knights.
WitchHUnters have Sistas.

If you are argueing for a Sista codex, then you must be arguning for a Grey Knight codex also.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:07:49


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Emperors Faithful wrote:@JohnHwangDD: Sorry, my mistake.

General: I don't think anyone will HAVE zelots and frateris militia. They seem like grot-fodder. It is a good idea though, what units have they canned from the sista force?

Zealots and Frateris Militia are just nowhere near as dependable as Sistas, or even inducted guard for that matter.

Don't sweat it - maybe I was probably a bit unclear above?

Anyhow, traditionally, Frateris Militia serve a very useful function of giving stats to absolute bottom-line untrained humans. That is, they exist to make Guardsmen (and even Concripts) look good. 40k is a far poorer place for not having them anymore. Not from a competitive or modeling standpoint, but from a coolness and theme standpoint.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:08:46


Post by: Orkeosaurus


Gwar! wrote:TBFH, Sisters do not need their own codex. What they need to do is A SINGLE Inquisition Codex, that is modified depending on your HQ.
For Example:

HQ:
A Inquisitor Option
A Grey Knights Option
A SoB Option

Elites:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
Grey Knight Termies
SoB Elites
Assassins (Does NOT need an =][= to use and always 0-1)
Storm Troopers (Can be taken as Troops if HQ Inquisitor is taken)

Troops:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Battle Squad
Grey Knights Squad
Tactical Squad (always 0-1)
Scout Squad (always 0-1)
Infantry Platoon (=][= Option)

Fast Attack
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Seraphim
Grey Knights Option
Valkaries/Vendettas (=][= Option)
SM Assault Squad (always 0-1)

HS:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Dominions
Pentnant Engine
Exorcist

Grey Knights Dreadnought
Grey Knights Purgitation Squad
Land Raider (and Variants)(Needs GK for no 0-1)
Orbital Strike (always 0-1 and needs and =][=)

0-1 from following list:
Whirlwind, Vindicator, Devastator Squad

Any thoughts? Yes it is a Huge list, it is basically 3 Codexes in 1
Looks good. However, I'd use the chance of a new codex to finally finish Ordo Xenos.

Then I'd replace the inducted Space Marines with Deathwatch. I think they'd be a welcome middle ground between the powerful but expensive gray knights and the weaker but cheaper sisters of battle.

Also, I think some daemonhosts and daemonweapons would be a cool addition for a Radical Inquisition force. The trick would be to disallow it to mingle with some of the more Puritan options, though. (Or maybe just say screw it, and mix them up like Tzeentch and Nurgle.)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:13:44


Post by: JohnHwangDD


Emperors Faithful wrote:@CT Gamer: S6 power weapons?!? Wat are these things?!? Certainly not human or fair, that's for sure.

If you are argueing for a Sista codex, then you must be arguning for a Grey Knight codex also.

Eviscerators. Look them up. They're *very* fair.

Not so much. GK shouldn't appear in normal games in any quantity or frequency, so I'm NOT arguing for a GK Codex. GK are an Inquisitional unit, like Assassins. They can be unrestricted (i.e. no 0-1 limit), but they shouldn't ever be fielded as a whole, standalone army except in Apocaypse or scenarios. GW's DH Codex really screwed things up big time.

I would be arguing for an Inquisition Codex including Inquisitors, GK, Assassins, and Deathwatch. No Sisters, and sharply-curtailed Allies rules.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:17:30


Post by: Gwar!


Orkeosaurus wrote:Looks good. However, I'd use the chance of a new codex to finally finish Ordo Xenos.

Then I'd replace the inducted Space Marines with Deathwatch. I think they'd be a welcome middle ground between the powerful but expensive gray knights and the weaker but cheaper sisters of battle.

Also, I think some daemonhosts and daemonweapons would be a cool addition for a Radical Inquisition force. The trick would be to disallow it to mingle with some of the more Puritan options, though. (Or maybe just say screw it, and mix them up like Tzeentch and Nurgle.)
Aye, I'd like to see Deathwatch as a 0-1 unit perhaps.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 02:51:59


Post by: crazypsyko666


Orkeosaurus wrote:
Gwar! wrote:TBFH, Sisters do not need their own codex. What they need to do is A SINGLE Inquisition Codex, that is modified depending on your HQ.
For Example:

HQ:
A Inquisitor Option
A Grey Knights Option
A SoB Option

Elites:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
Grey Knight Termies
SoB Elites
Assassins (Does NOT need an =][= to use and always 0-1)
Storm Troopers (Can be taken as Troops if HQ Inquisitor is taken)

Troops:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Battle Squad
Grey Knights Squad
Tactical Squad (always 0-1)
Scout Squad (always 0-1)
Infantry Platoon (=][= Option)

Fast Attack
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Seraphim
Grey Knights Option
Valkaries/Vendettas (=][= Option)
SM Assault Squad (always 0-1)

HS:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Dominions
Pentnant Engine
Exorcist

Grey Knights Dreadnought
Grey Knights Purgitation Squad
Land Raider (and Variants)(Needs GK for no 0-1)
Orbital Strike (always 0-1 and needs and =][=)

0-1 from following list:
Whirlwind, Vindicator, Devastator Squad

Any thoughts? Yes it is a Huge list, it is basically 3 Codexes in 1
Looks good. However, I'd use the chance of a new codex to finally finish Ordo Xenos.

Then I'd replace the inducted Space Marines with Deathwatch. I think they'd be a welcome middle ground between the powerful but expensive gray knights and the weaker but cheaper sisters of battle.

Also, I think some daemonhosts and daemonweapons would be a cool addition for a Radical Inquisition force. The trick would be to disallow it to mingle with some of the more Puritan options, though. (Or maybe just say screw it, and mix them up like Tzeentch and Nurgle.)


wasn't the ordo xenos (who ran the deatwatch) part of the inquisition? and if that happened, add in a deathwatch heavy weapons squad. make the purgation squad a super anti-infantry GK squad, and the deathwatch heavy weapons squad a pretty-good-at-killing-anything-but-not-great-at-killing-everything squad, to make combat against vehicles viable. then, add in an HQ for them, and similar rules for the deathwatch to replace them. i'd also say keep the IG option in, just for flavor, but remove the stormtroopers.

What i'd do:

HQ:
Inquisitor Option (i haven't come up with specifics, but perhaps letting them get a somewhat limited amount of anything?)
Grey Knights Option
SoB Option
Deathwatch Captain Option

Elites:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
Grey Knight Termies
SoB Elites
Assassins (Does NOT need an =][= to use and always 0-1)
Deathwatch Termies

Troops:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Battle Squad
Grey Knights Squad
DeathWatch Kill Team Squad
Deathwatch Scout Squad
Infantry Platoon (=][= Option)

Fast Attack
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Seraphim
Grey Knights Option
Valkaries/Vendettas (=][= Option)
Deathwatch Assault Squad (always 0-1)

HS:
All 0-1 Unless appropriate HQ is selected
SoB Dominions
Pentnant Engine
Exorcist

Grey Knights Dreadnought
Grey Knights Purgitation Squad
Land Raider (and Variants)(Needs GK for no 0-1)
Orbital Strike (always 0-1 and needs and =][=)

0-1 from following list:
Whirlwind, Vindicator

Deathwatch Heavy Weapons Squad (options for Plasma Cannon, Lascannon, Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolters)
Deathwatch Landspeeder


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 03:09:22


Post by: Gwar!


Deathwatch do not use Termies IIRC


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 03:43:39


Post by: crazypsyko666


okay, scratch that. (Deathwatch Termies that is)

Do they have ANYTHING besides a troops option by default?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still beleive that a large aspect of the Deathwatch should be put in, added to, etc.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 05:10:24


Post by: Orkeosaurus


What Deathwatch have fluff-wise could potentially be expanded pending a new codex. That's pretty standard procedure for GW.

Also, I think storm troopers definitely need to be in it. They're the standard troops fluff-wise, and they're already present in too many inquisition armies. I think they definitely shouldn't get Hot Shots standard though (it makes them too much of a specialty unit).


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 05:14:19


Post by: crazypsyko666


I didn't think about that.... sorry, i'm still new to the hobby. i haven't been around long enough to have any of my peices cut or neutered. it doesn't even cross my mind yet.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 05:43:29


Post by: Orkeosaurus


That's okay. Still, it's something to think about, even if some options do end up cut as a result of the Inquisition being made into one codex.

I'd probably try and go something like:

HQ:
Inquisitor (may be upgraded to Inquisitor Lord)
Grand Master
Canoness
Deathwatch Captain

Elites:
Gray Knight Terminators (One squad may be taken as troops with a Grand Master)
Celestians (One squad may be taken as troops with a Canoness)
Deathwatch Insertion Team (One squad may be taken as troops with a Deathwatch Captain)
Daemonhost (Requires Inquisitor Lord)
Temple Assassin (0-1 Requires Inquisitor)

Troops:
SoB Battle Squad
Grey Knights Squad
DeathWatch Kill Team Squad
Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Squad
Infantry Platoon (Requires Inquisitor)
Zealot Mob (Can represent sisters repentia)

Fast Attack:
SoB Seraphim
Death Cult Assassins (Require Inquisitor)
Storm Trooper Droptroops (with Valkyrie, requires Inquisitor)
Gray Knight Teleportation Squad
Deathwatch Speeder (0-1 without Deathwatch Captain)

HS:
SoB Dominions
Penitant Engine (0-1 without Canoness)
Exorcist
Dreadnought (May be upgraded to Gray Knight Dreadnought with Grand Master)
Grey Knights Purgitation Squad
Land Raider (With variants, 0-1 without Grand Master)
Orbital Strike (0-1 Requires Inquisitor Lord or Deathwatch Captian)
Leman Russ (Single vehicle without variants, 0-1 Requires Inquisitor)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 05:54:40


Post by: crazypsyko666


I may be misunderstanding you, but there should be options (IMHO) to have a pure force, like a pure DW force, GK, and SoB. and what would the point allocation be for the zealot mob?

otherwise, i like that list MUCH more than previous. lol, e-mail it to GW, maybe in 5 years they'll do something with it.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 06:01:42


Post by: Orkeosaurus


Is my list hard to make a pure list with? I tried to keep a pure list capability in mind when I wrote it.

The zealots were a Chapter Approved unit for the Witch Hunters. They were pretty much cheap, human cannon fodder, made from mobs of fanatics. I thought they would be an interesting choice for ecclesiarchal or radical armies.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 06:05:42


Post by: crazypsyko666


i reread it, it's fine. i gave it a once-over. you might want to make orbital strikes available to anyone, and at that, all three kinds.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 06:21:07


Post by: CT GAMER


Gwar! wrote:TBFH, Sisters do not need their own codex. What they need to do is A SINGLE Inquisition Codex, that is modified depending on your HQ.
For Example:

But see the thing is Most long time sisters players resent them being shoehorned into the WH codex. Sisters had an identity and a codex of their own BEFORE WH. We were the ordo militant of the Eccleesiarchy not the filler for the WH army list. One of the coolest an most thematic Imperial armies given a half-baked treatment as a way to fix another project that needed some filler to balance out the DH codex is not ideal or acceptable to me as a devoted SOb player..

I don't want 2/3 of my codex to be crap I have no intention of buying or playing and anyone that wants to be honest in this discussion would feel the same way if suddenly GW announced "your army is now part of this new army and you will no longer get a codex". I can hear the whining and complaining now...

Sisters deserve their own updated, expanded and fleshed out codex out of respect for what they represent and the coolness of their fluff/theme, etc. I don't play Witch Hunters, or Inquisition, I play Sisters off battle...

Besides the Ecclesiarchy is rich in character, fluff, atmosphere, modeling potential, 40K gothic overtones and so forth and offers much fodder for expansion/fleshing out the SOB and their Ecclesiarchal brethren.

All that being said I know I am the grumpy old man nostalgic for the old days on this one. I have no illusions that GW will actually reverse this one. They never really wanted to support sisters all that much to begin with, and they have managed to utilize them in their current incarnation in such as way that removing them from the WH codex would gut it, and I don't see them destroying one codex to make a new one for a minority player group like SOB players.

I'll get by with the current and most likely future option to play SOB being under the banner of WH as much as it irritates me. What I really hope is that the next version of WH doesn't remove the ability to play SOB only forces, because I'd hate to lose yet another army to the fickle GW gods of change...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 11:09:56


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Honestly, I think that the inquisitorial codexs work fine. It would be very interesting to see a Ordo Xenos Codex as well. But apart from deathwatch I don't think there would be much new stuff. Alien hunters mabye? (As in the poachers of Tyranids)

Anyway, Zeolots are fine, but they should not have S6 power weapons. Repentia yes, becuase it is ceremonial. They have the equipment. But for zealots the should simply be a $%£"load of attacks. Nothing else special. And a low armour save.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 11:10:42


Post by: Gwar!


Emperors Faithful wrote:And a low armour save.
Armour save? Faith is their Shield! No Armour at all!!!!


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 11:12:22


Post by: Emperors Faithful


...With thier kind of faith they won't WANT to survive through armour saves. Mabye a 6+ save as the enemy tries to decide whether or not to even BOTHER shooting them.


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 14:14:13


Post by: CT GAMER


Emperors Faithful wrote:Honestly, I think that the inquisitorial codexs work fine. It would be very interesting to see a Ordo Xenos Codex as well. But apart from deathwatch I don't think there would be much new stuff. Alien hunters mabye? (As in the poachers of Tyranids)

Anyway, Zeolots are fine, but they should not have S6 power weapons. Repentia yes, becuase it is ceremonial. They have the equipment. But for zealots the should simply be a $%£"load of attacks. Nothing else special. And a low armour save.


Repentia are a lame spam unit to be honest. The Chapter approved Zealots unit had far more character and modeling flexibility. You are familiar with that article no?


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 14:22:47


Post by: sieek


DE don't need new codex.
ok the actual (LOOOOOL) codex is getting 13 years old pretty soon now, but it is IMO one of the best balanced books (LOOOOL) gw ever made for their 40k armies.
you have no units in the list that are a complete waste of points, like you have in pretty much every other codex.
unlike with space marines, the DE are an army that needs finesse, cunning and skill when playing otherwhise you'll just get your ass kicked. most people discard them as a broken army because of that, which is not true. in my gaming group no one wants to play me if i bring DE, only 1 loss in 5th edition.
i only wish there were some new models, just realised a few days ago that there are no longer warriors with special weapons (not heavy weapons, i know you still get dark lances ) Oo
that sucks as hell because i need a few more shredders

most important: a new codex would just be some over-powered screwup like the Orcs and guard ones to get the model sales up... with tons of people starting the new army because it can easily win games... blah... i would reaaaaally hate having to listen to comments like the following: "you just win because your army is better" "you just win because you got this new unit that i can't do anything against" "bla bla bla lame army user bla bla bla"


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 16:28:45


Post by: CT GAMER


sieek wrote:DE don't need new codex.
ok the actual (LOOOOOL) codex is getting 13 years old pretty soon now, but it is IMO one of the best balanced books (LOOOOL) gw ever made for their 40k armies.
you have no units in the list that are a complete waste of points, like you have in pretty much every other codex.
unlike with space marines, the DE are an army that needs finesse, cunning and skill when playing otherwhise you'll just get your ass kicked. most people discard them as a broken army because of that, which is not true. in my gaming group no one wants to play me if i bring DE, only 1 loss in 5th edition.
i only wish there were some new models, just realised a few days ago that there are no longer warriors with special weapons (not heavy weapons, i know you still get dark lances ) Oo
that sucks as hell because i need a few more shredders

most important: a new codex would just be some over-powered screwup like the Orcs and guard ones to get the model sales up... with tons of people starting the new army because it can easily win games... blah... i would reaaaaally hate having to listen to comments like the following: "you just win because your army is better" "you just win because you got this new unit that i can't do anything against" "bla bla bla lame army user bla bla bla"


The DE are gonna get a whole new model line. Gw is gonna wanna recoup that investment in spades. The DE will be nigh unstoppable...


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/07 23:02:22


Post by: Emperors Faithful


I hate it when a new army comes out becuase they ussually ARE unstoppable. However, I don't like that 2+ invo the Archon can get. Seems a little unfair for such a little guy to be the most unkillable thing ever.

Anyway @CT Gamer: What were the stats of the zeolots? Please tell me they did not get extra strength or power weapons cos that is just cheesy. I have seen the article too (where guard qoutes something to a dying preist right?).

Also just use the Fantasy flagelents (mabye add in a few pistols)


New codices in order of necessity @ 2009/07/10 04:41:22


Post by: Kaffis


Finally read through this thread (troll vs. troll is ever so amusing), and wanted to point out:

Sisters of Battle don't need a new codex because they're unplayable (as people have mentioned, they can be fairly competitive). They don't need a new codex because they're old (the rules, wargear, and statlines have held up rather well with edition changes; the FAQ is manageable and fairly helpful, though the points costs for some things look lame compared to other armies due to points deflation).

They need a new codex because (along with DH), 5th edition and 5th edition codex updates don't take allying into account well anymore.
They need a new codex to push plastics; WH have a single plastic model in the entire army, and that's the Immolator/Rhino, so really it's a single vehicle accessory sprue in plastic for the entire army.
They need a new codex to fix the "trash unit syndrome" that plagues the =I= half and much of the fluffy ecclesiarchy units -- functional Sisters armies are built on 3 vehicles and about 5 units.
They need a new codex to catch up to the Special Character trend. C:SM has, what, like a dozen? IG has about that many, too. And both have a good handful of generic, but force/strategy-transformative HQ options on top of that. WH has 2 characters and 3 other HQs, 2 of which are virtually identical.

In any event, that's not even taking into account the fluffish lack of focus. I'd be content to see a unified Inquisition with an HQ-based unlocking structure (and minor mixing outside this unlock structure) OR an Ecclesiarchy codex with a more direct focus to the fluff and more delicious gothic moody units (ones that we actually feel like fielding, rather than dioramaing this time around, please!).