As of current faq, can't put them inside wagons emidiately which is a problem on it's own. Painboyz can stick to other squads before joining in at least.
I don't see why the bullyboy formation could not start in units of wagons or any vehicle for that matter. They are both faction orks. I could see it might be an issue if they are in different detachments, which for the the gun wagons, that would be the only way. Orks are battle brothers with themselves (same as everyone else). Might be in the draft FAQ that says battle brothers can't start the game in each other's vehicles any more, which would be pretty silly if you are the same faction.
I believe an exception should be made if you are the same faction. Everyone would have this issue.
You are getting it wrong. A painboy can join the bully boyz because they are both factionrks. If the case was about a sanguinary priest riding with some sternguard in a droppod then he would not be able to join, 'cos they come from different factions, that treat each other as bb. But orks don't treat each otjer as bb. Just like you can't be a brother to yourself. Otherwise it just happens that you can't join a character to a unit with a dt, which would be stupid.
That said bully boyz with painboyz are realy good. If I had enough manz I'd runn them every game.
Yeah, if you read the paragraph above the allies table, it states:
"..., this section tells you how models from different Factions fight allongside each other."
and also :
"The Allies Matrix below shows the levels of alliance between units that have different Factions in the same army."
I wouldn't use an Ork to do the actual summoning. Too much perils to risk it. As was just mentioned they are great as warp charge generators. An ML 2 Weirdboy generates charges like an ML 3. Use the Ork powers. Only one of them is no good due to Ork BS2. The rest are very killy are helps the squad be very killy. I would like to see 2 sets of powers for orks. One set being Brutal but Kunnin and the other Kunnin but Brutal because it looks like new sets of powers are being handed out like candy and the only options orks have are the one in our codex and the perilous demonology.
ProwlerPC wrote: I wouldn't use an Ork to do the actual summoning. Too much perils to risk it. As was just mentioned they are great as warp charge generators. An ML 2 Weirdboy generates charges like an ML 3. Use the Ork powers. Only one of them is no good due to Ork BS2. The rest are very killy are helps the squad be very killy. I would like to see 2 sets of powers for orks. One set being Brutal but Kunnin and the other Kunnin but Brutal because it looks like new sets of powers are being handed out like candy and the only options orks have are the one in our codex and the perilous demonology.
If you summon with weirdboyz they will perils themself to death eventually, but that isn't a problem. You get a great return on investment. If you are rocking 5 weirdboyz you'll get a couple possessions, and can turn 2 of them into bloodthirsters. After that, just summon what else you need.
My favorite way to do Ork Demon summoning is to join some weirdboyz to some Mek Gunz to give them T7 and ablative wounds. At least for the ones you want to immediately convert to Demons.
I'm up to 3 weirdboyz now, and working my way to 7 so I can run a 7 weirdboy, 6 Deffkopta, 70 Gretchin, Buzzgob's Stompa summoning list.
ProwlerPC wrote: I wouldn't use an Ork to do the actual summoning. Too much perils to risk it. As was just mentioned they are great as warp charge generators. An ML 2 Weirdboy generates charges like an ML 3. Use the Ork powers. Only one of them is no good due to Ork BS2. The rest are very killy are helps the squad be very killy. I would like to see 2 sets of powers for orks. One set being Brutal but Kunnin and the other Kunnin but Brutal because it looks like new sets of powers are being handed out like candy and the only options orks have are the one in our codex and the perilous demonology.
If you summon with weirdboyz they will perils themself to death eventually, but that isn't a problem. You get a great return on investment. If you are rocking 5 weirdboyz you'll get a couple possessions, and can turn 2 of them into bloodthirsters. After that, just summon what else you need.
My favorite way to do Ork Demon summoning is to join some weirdboyz to some Mek Gunz to give them T7 and ablative wounds. At least for the ones you want to immediately convert to Demons.
I'm up to 3 weirdboyz now, and working my way to 7 so I can run a 7 weirdboy, 6 Deffkopta, 70 Gretchin, Buzzgob's Stompa summoning list.
ProwlerPC wrote: I wouldn't use an Ork to do the actual summoning. Too much perils to risk it. As was just mentioned they are great as warp charge generators. An ML 2 Weirdboy generates charges like an ML 3. Use the Ork powers. Only one of them is no good due to Ork BS2. The rest are very killy are helps the squad be very killy. I would like to see 2 sets of powers for orks. One set being Brutal but Kunnin and the other Kunnin but Brutal because it looks like new sets of powers are being handed out like candy and the only options orks have are the one in our codex and the perilous demonology.
If you summon with weirdboyz they will perils themself to death eventually, but that isn't a problem. You get a great return on investment. If you are rocking 5 weirdboyz you'll get a couple possessions, and can turn 2 of them into bloodthirsters. After that, just summon what else you need.
My favorite way to do Ork Demon summoning is to join some weirdboyz to some Mek Gunz to give them T7 and ablative wounds. At least for the ones you want to immediately convert to Demons.
I'm up to 3 weirdboyz now, and working my way to 7 so I can run a 7 weirdboy, 6 Deffkopta, 70 Gretchin, Buzzgob's Stompa summoning list.
That's unbound I assume?? Or is it triple CAD or something?
I've used weirdboy summoner a lot, and as said above, the risk of perils is largely a nonissue. By the time the ork dies he's brought made the sacrifice worth it. I will say summoning pink Horrors is largely a mistake. You can't get enough pink Horrors to make it worth while. You're much better off bringing in things that will have an immediate effect on the battle.
In the past I've brought in daemonettes for extra ap 2 threatening...flamers for pinpoint anti infantry...and various greater daemons. Also, screamers are nice for chasing down objectives.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: I've used weirdboy summoner a lot, and as said above, the risk of perils is largely a nonissue. By the time the ork dies he's brought made the sacrifice worth it. I will say summoning pink Horrors is largely a mistake. You can't get enough pink Horrors to make it worth while. You're much better off bringing in things that will have an immediate effect on the battle.
I tend to agree. I've tried it, and you just run out of turns. Summoning Horrors on turn 1, then other summoners on turn 2, who summon something interesting on turn 3, which can charge on turn 4, if they get there. It's a looong chain in a 6 turn game.
So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Glitcha wrote: So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Same with me. Orks don't need anyone - they are orks. But weirdboys do make great warp charge bateries, so taking them might give deamon players some extra charges for their summoning.
Glitcha wrote: So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Same with me. Orks don't need anyone - they are orks. But weirdboys do make great warp charge bateries, so taking them might give deamon players some extra charges for their summoning.
correct me if i'm wrong, but does it not say that the extra dice a wyrdboy generates from waagh power can only be used to cast ork powers?
ProwlerPC wrote: I wouldn't use an Ork to do the actual summoning. Too much perils to risk it. As was just mentioned they are great as warp charge generators. An ML 2 Weirdboy generates charges like an ML 3. Use the Ork powers. Only one of them is no good due to Ork BS2. The rest are very killy are helps the squad be very killy. I would like to see 2 sets of powers for orks. One set being Brutal but Kunnin and the other Kunnin but Brutal because it looks like new sets of powers are being handed out like candy and the only options orks have are the one in our codex and the perilous demonology.
If you summon with weirdboyz they will perils themself to death eventually, but that isn't a problem. You get a great return on investment. If you are rocking 5 weirdboyz you'll get a couple possessions, and can turn 2 of them into bloodthirsters. After that, just summon what else you need.
My favorite way to do Ork Demon summoning is to join some weirdboyz to some Mek Gunz to give them T7 and ablative wounds. At least for the ones you want to immediately convert to Demons.
I'm up to 3 weirdboyz now, and working my way to 7 so I can run a 7 weirdboy, 6 Deffkopta, 70 Gretchin, Buzzgob's Stompa summoning list.
Weirdboyz won't generate the extra charge unless they're withing 12" of models with 'Ere we go. Gretchen don't have 'Ere we go.
Glitcha wrote: So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Same with me. Orks don't need anyone - they are orks. But weirdboys do make great warp charge bateries, so taking them might give deamon players some extra charges for their summoning.
correct me if i'm wrong, but does it not say that the extra dice a wyrdboy generates from waagh power can only be used to cast ork powers?
If a weirdboy generates extra warp power, if they do not pass at least one psychic test that turn they take a str 2 hit with no save allowed at the end of the psychic phase.
So they aren't required to use the warp charge, but they can -maybe- get hurt from not using it. Usually a 1/6 chance to take 1 wound, 1/3 if they have -1 T for some reason...
Also kind of a random comment but there's only one weirdboy model that I know of so you'd have seven identical HQs running around. You'd definitely want to throw some bits and bobs on those boyz to make them more varied and to give them more personality.
Hades wrote: Weirdboyz won't generate the extra charge unless they're withing 12" of models with 'Ere we go. Gretchen don't have 'Ere we go.
I know. You've got to keep one unit of boyz, or something around. I have 10 boyz in the list for that purpose. They ride the stompa along with any weirdboyz not currently trying to summon themselves to death.
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Vitali Advenil wrote: Also kind of a random comment but there's only one weirdboy model that I know of so you'd have seven identical HQs running around. You'd definitely want to throw some bits and bobs on those boyz to make them more varied and to give them more personality.
I've got 1 of the real weirdboy model, then I've got a fantasy Ork Shaman. Then I've got 2 other kit bashed weirdboyz that are notably distinct. Just 3 more to go. I'll have the weirdboyz tourney ready long before I get the Demons ready to summon.
Let's see who plays it and which Rules they use but imho the best detachments for ork flyers. I'm going to purposeful ignore the ridiculous 7+ flyer formations because they are unrealistic in most games. Honestly I probably will never play with more then 3 myself. However the OP wanted to know the best ork flyer formations.
Air armada (waagh ghazkull) (5 models)
3 dakkajets
1 blitza bomber
1 burna bomber
Special rule: each time a flyer enters play it returns with all hull and one use weapons restored.
Ork skwadron (death from the skies) (6 models min, but 3 wing leader buffs)
3 flyer wings (2+ models per wing)
Chosen from blitza, burna, dakka
Special rule(s): 1 wing has +1bs and +1 agility and +1jink.
If all the flyer wings are within 24in of each other and in atk patterns they can flat out and shoot same turn.
Think about the above formation for a sec let's take 2 dakka jets. Put them in a vigilance pattern (+1 jink and +1bs vs flyers) give him the wing bonus above for +1 bs and +1 jink. You now have 2 dakka jets with 2+ jink(3+ jink on second dakkajet) and the wing leader is likely AV12 or ignores lost hull on 5+. Put the other bombers wings in vigilance atk pattern (+1 jink and +1str to bombs to front flyer) with each of their wing leaders either av12 or ignores lost hull on 5+. That's some durable flyers!!!
Kustom wazmob (death from skies) (4 models)
1 wazbomb blast jet (must be wing leader and have KFF)
3 other ork flyers (can be wazbomb as well)
Special rules: the wing leader and other flyers in formation have a 3++ if in fortitude atk pattern.
(Fortitude pattern gives 4++, it will not die and interceptor)
However while 4 ork flyers with 3++ and it will not die are a pain in the ass to kill even at AV10/10/10, once you lose a flyer you will no longer be able to fly in the fortitude pattern and lose the 3++ (and it will not die and interceptor) and just have the 5++ KFF (plus the wazbom wing leader bonus which is usually offensive) you can always fly one of the 3 flyer atk patterns for another bonus like tank hunter or ignores cover.
So I agree air armada is the best unless you want a beefed up wazbom blasta jet. My problem is even 4 flyers is a lot. 3 is the max I usually fly at 1850.
The rules for a regular KFF state that "The bearer, and all models within 6", receive a 5+ invulnerable save against all shooting attacks."
So I think it should work, but the real question is wither that means we measure from the base, or from the model. If it's from the model, I doubt you could get anyone in that 6" range. But if it's from the base, then yes, definitely.
I play a game over the weekend with the new wazblasta jet and I found something interesting. The new Mega- telaporta blasta is an assault weapon and the wazblasta is a waagh plan. This mean on the turn you waaagh you get 2 str 8 ap2 blast markers that on a 6 cause instant death or auto pen. Personally, this now make him almost a must have if you are running any other flyers. 5++ bubble and and all the extra shots with the guns you dish out a crap ton of damage.
gungo wrote: Yea this is why the 5pt tellyporta upgrade is an auto include in most lists and his insta death blast really scares mc's and threatens gmc's.
I normally don't play the tellyporta upgrade on the big mek because I think it's useless, but the mega tellyporta blasta on the jet is zogging awesome!
Glitcha wrote: So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Making up for where orks are lacking is what makes it good. Have you ever played a game where you wish you would have brought more fast expendable stuff like koptas? Or something to actually deter an approaching knight? Summoning in things you need as you need them helps with that. Obviously if you want to play a pure ork force this isn't for you...and no, this isn't going to get orks winning huge events. But it's definitely worth checking out.
Glitcha wrote: So is this strategy of using a wyrdboy to someone daemons really that good? Or are we just using daemons to fill in the gaps of what our army lacks? Might just be me, but I believe in a pure ork army.
Making up for where orks are lacking is what makes it good. Have you ever played a game where you wish you would have brought more fast expendable stuff like koptas? Or something to actually deter an approaching knight? Summoning in things you need as you need them helps with that. Obviously if you want to play a pure ork force this isn't for you...and no, this isn't going to get orks winning huge events. But it's definitely worth checking out.
Might just be my playing style, but i've never struggle with knights. usually only see 1 in a casual game. Might see more in competitive, but I plan to fight multiple knights at the competitive level. For the fast objective grabbing, that is what I use my trukks for. Move 6" jump out 6". Flat out 12" to cover or to an objective. Keep driving around grabbing stuff til you go boom!
On the subject of Knights, I assume that was pretty FAQ? Do you think the change to grenades will effect your ability to handle them?
On fast objective grabbers, trukks are solid. I play speed freaks, so I'm right there with you. It is nice having something that can turbo boost 24 inches over terrain and models though, especially when it's completely disposable. I've had lots of situations where I need an objective but whatever takes it is sure to die...and sending over a unit of screamers keeps my boys getting stuck in where they need to be.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: On the subject of Knights, I assume that was pretty FAQ? Do you think the change to grenades will effect your ability to handle them?
On fast objective grabbers, trukks are solid. I play speed freaks, so I'm right there with you. It is nice having something that can turbo boost 24 inches over terrain and models though, especially when it's completely disposable. I've had lots of situations where I need an objective but whatever takes it is sure to die...and sending over a unit of screamers keeps my boys getting stuck in where they need to be.
Never used grenades against them. Just power klaw the zog out of them! Most people forget that knights have move through cover special rule. Which is create for movement, but not good when you assault into terrain and you don't have grenades. Knight is now I1 and fits at the same time with the nob. Usually takes 2 nobs with PK on the charge to do in a knight. Nobs squad with big chopas and some PK will also do in a knight pretty quickly.
Knights got a wee bit better with the faq.
Grenades and melta bombs are limited to 1 per assault or shooting phase. Hurts a lot of armies anti vehicle abilities. Attaching a Mek with kill saw does wonders for regaining tankbustas melee capabilities again. (Armourbane and tankhunter in a powerklaw is insanely good)
A unit always hits the side of the target they are facing. This prevents a lot of ordinance/barrage from hitting side armour without the shield or the new tau rear armour hitting formation from by-passing the invul save.
With the release of the knight game I was able to make a renegade knight for my ork list and believe me a looted ork knight can be a beautiful model and is an ally of convience of Orks.
There is enough threats in a list like the below to give most players issues.
Detschment 1- CaD
Zhardsnark- warboss with Intiative 4 PK on bike that has scout and skilled rider
Painboy on bike
Mek with kustom mega-blasta
6 tankbustas-upgrade one to nob (attached Mek)
8 warbikers-upgrade one to nob with pk (zhardsnark and painboy here)
3 warbikers
3 warbikers
Gunwagon x2- for tankbustas/bullyboys
Gunwagon x2- for bullyboys (proxy trukks if needed for 4x av13 transports)
Detschment 2- bullyboyz
5 meganobs upgrade one to skorcha
5 meganobs upgrade one to skorcha
5 meganobs upgrade one to skorcha
Detschment 3- renegade knight warden
knight warden (have fun converting this model as a looted ork vehicle)
List looks pretty solid. You might run into issues with the knight being in your list due to ally rules. I've heard of some people using lists that have knights with orks.
Glitcha wrote: List looks pretty solid. You might run into issues with the knight being in your list due to ally rules. I've heard of some people using lists that have knights with orks.
Renegades are ally of convience so it's not that bad anymore. People were using space marine Knights which were come the apocolyse and a lot of issues. Allies of convience simply prevents the knight from receiving buffs which the Orks don't usually have to give out (except Mek repair rolls).
And allied Orks can not end thier movement within 1in of the knight however they can charge the same target the knight is engaged in CC with.
In return the knight provides high damage accurate shooting that Orks desperately needed and another av13 target priority that takes away your opponents attention away from the other 4 av13 tranports delivery extremely painful assault units.
Glitcha wrote: List looks pretty solid. You might run into issues with the knight being in your list due to ally rules. I've heard of some people using lists that have knights with orks.
Renegades are ally of convience so it's not that bad anymore. People were using space marine Knights which were come the apocolyse and a lot of issues. Allies of convience simply prevents the knight from receiving buffs which the Orks don't usually have to give out (except Mek repair rolls).
And allied Orks can not end thier movement within 1in of the knight however they can charge the same target the knight is engaged in CC with.
In return the knight provides high damage accurate shooting that Orks desperately needed and another av13 target priority that takes away your opponents attention away from the other 4 av13 tranports delivery extremely painful assault units.
Might have to try it some time and proxy one of my gork/morkanauts.
Glitcha wrote: List looks pretty solid. You might run into issues with the knight being in your list due to ally rules. I've heard of some people using lists that have knights with orks.
Renegades are ally of convience so it's not that bad anymore. People were using space marine Knights which were come the apocolyse and a lot of issues. Allies of convience simply prevents the knight from receiving buffs which the Orks don't usually have to give out (except Mek repair rolls).
And allied Orks can not end thier movement within 1in of the knight however they can charge the same target the knight is engaged in CC with.
In return the knight provides high damage accurate shooting that Orks desperately needed and another av13 target priority that takes away your opponents attention away from the other 4 av13 tranports delivery extremely painful assault units.
Might have to try it some time and proxy one of my gork/morkanauts.
I think full-time playing a GorkoMorkonaught as a Renegade Knight is completely appropriate. Thing always should have been a Super Heavy. If they make them super heavy next codex you'll already have some ready to go!
I think of the call for not being a superheavy is because we already had one. However the gorkanaut/morkanaut is just overpriced with poor rules.
You know what new rule I like its the stickbomb flinga. A 5++ on the first pen is a great way to fix most ork vehicles.
And the stickbomb launcha is already a useless piece on ork models so just replace those rules with the flinga rules on every ork vehicle.
gungo wrote: I think of the call for not being a superheavy is because we already had one. However the gorkanaut/morkanaut is just overpriced with poor rules.
You know what new rule I like its the stickbomb flinga. A 5++ on the first pen is a great way to fix most ork vehicles.
And the stickbomb launcha is already a useless piece on ork models so just replace those rules with the flinga rules on every ork vehicle.
It would actually make the stikk bomb chuckas worth taking. Currently they are not worth it now since everyone comes with stick bombs.
gungo wrote: I think of the call for not being a superheavy is because we already had one. However the gorkanaut/morkanaut is just overpriced with poor rules.
You know what new rule I like its the stickbomb flinga. A 5++ on the first pen is a great way to fix most ork vehicles.
And the stickbomb launcha is already a useless piece on ork models so just replace those rules with the flinga rules on every ork vehicle.
It would actually make the stikk bomb chuckas worth taking. Currently they are not worth it now since everyone comes with stick bombs.
Even if we didn't have stikkbombs base like our old codex no one took them. Being I2 meant we went last after most enemy units anyways and our klaw still hits at I1 so it was never worth the points cost.
gungo wrote: I think of the call for not being a superheavy is because we already had one. However the gorkanaut/morkanaut is just overpriced with poor rules.
You know what new rule I like its the stickbomb flinga. A 5++ on the first pen is a great way to fix most ork vehicles.
And the stickbomb launcha is already a useless piece on ork models so just replace those rules with the flinga rules on every ork vehicle.
Please GW make gorkanaut/morkanaut something more than an overcosted soulgrinder.
How are bikers+bikerboss+painboss faring now? I got my hands on a biker boss for cheapo and am thinking of trying out the bike star. They seem to be nice on paper but 4+ armor hates ignore cover which is literally everywhere.
The bike star is there to supplement bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg.
koooaei wrote: How are bikers+bikerboss+painboss faring now? I got my hands on a biker boss for cheapo and am thinking of trying out the bike star. They seem to be nice on paper but 4+ armor hates ignore cover which is literally everywhere.
The bike star is there to supplement bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg.
The bikerstar is still pretty good, but their effectiveness really depends on what you face the most in your local meta. Against Tau or Necrons (and Hunter's Eye SM), it may be prudent to consider investing a KFF toting Biker Big Mek just to get around the lack of cover saves you are going to be dealing with, due to marker lights from Tau and the nebuloscopes from the tomb blades from the Necrons. It is putting a lot of eggs in one basket but that extra layer has prevented my big biker star from seeing an early grave against those armies. So far I've only lost it due to poor placement on my part and overwhelming S5 dakka due to multiple fire warrior squads in rapid fire range buffed by ethereals.
If you're using them in conjunction with bully boyz in trukks, I think you're largely set given that the bully boyz can easily take care of any units on the flanks and wipe out any annoying squatters on objectives. The main thing I'd be worried about are GMC and SHW since you'd have to suicide a unit most of the time to kill them.
koooaei wrote: How are bikers+bikerboss+painboss faring now? I got my hands on a biker boss for cheapo and am thinking of trying out the bike star. They seem to be nice on paper but 4+ armor hates ignore cover which is literally everywhere.
The bike star is there to supplement bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg.
Bike star works mostly because of zhardsnark the fw named character.
He gives his group skilled rider (+1 jink and ignores difficult terrain) on top of +1 jink during turbo boost, scout, and makes bikers troops (which are great for fast Objectice secured Objectice grabbers). He is also better then a normal biker boss because his pk is at Intiative which is huge.
To be fair if you do take zhardsnark most take a painboy on bike as well.
This means your bike star is toughness 5(bike bonus), 4+ armour (bike bonus), 4+jink sv (3+ in zhardsnark group and 2+ when turbo or night fighting), and has a decent shooting weapon str5 ap5 assault3 twinlinked, but still has 2 CC weapons.
So even if someone has ignores cover thier weapon needs to be ap4 or better and they still have 5+ fnp unless it's str10 and that's just to kill an 18pt model. I'd grab a painboy on bike before I went to Mek with KFF since they both are 5+ but fnp is always useful.
Best list is to have bullyboys in transports hitting your opponent hard, a zhardsnark bike star for a fast double pk obj secured unit, with 1-2 min size obj secured bike squads to grab objectives.
The vsg took massive hits in the faq and I don't think it's really worth it anymore.
You need the entire unit within 6in to get any effect and anything that can hurt vehicles can hurt it now, grav, haywire, tankhunter, armourbane, etc. unless it's to protect Mek guns it's not worth it.
We mostly don't use fw. And i'd not like to build a list around a 5+ year old book that's not even a codex. + i've got a lot of mek guns most of which i made out of plastic clay myself. So, i'm set on a regular biker boss atm.
To each their own. Personally, I own so much FW stuff that I can't help but not take some every time. Regardless how old our book is it is still valid, unless forge world says otherwise and even if they don't reprint or update it, I'll still use it. lol heck I have some of the old data sheets from the shrine of knowledge for the orks for some of our super heavy vehicles. For example the pulse rokkit.
Mr.T wrote: I wish i could use freely fw like you guys, really :(
It wasn't like this always in my gaming community. A lot of players used to not agree to allow FW rules or models. My first FW piece was the Techmarine with the conversion beamer. One of the few options that is in the GW codex, but they don't make the model.
I've never used FW in my gaming group to try and retain a semblance of balance but with super heavies and GMC's in the normal game now it seems redundant. It also seems like a lot of people feel orks need FW just to achieve a bit of balance.
Nithaniel wrote: I've never used FW in my gaming group to try and retain a semblance of balance but with super heavies and GMC's in the normal game now it seems redundant. It also seems like a lot of people feel orks need FW just to achieve a bit of balance.
I don't know if I'd call it balance, lol. Its more of options we need to be competitive. Like since we lost Wazdakka in the codex, i've gone to using Zhadsnark from FW. Why pay 110 points for an armor 14 vehicles, when you can pay 60 points for an armor 13 vehicle. We got that cheap zoggin' stompa in our FW book. Personally, a pretty cool army list that allows you to take dread heavy army.
BAN wrote: Does anyone know if the new 'game breaker' bundles on the gw webstore come with formation rules?
My guess is yes they will have some formation rules for these bundles. If you read the description on GW's website they make it sound like they have some special rules.
BAN wrote: Does anyone know if the new 'game breaker' bundles on the gw webstore come with formation rules?
from what I gathered they are just the normal web click bundles with no formations or savings. However next month is supposedly organized play tank shock month where participating game stores received tank bundles from GW with deep discounts. Some of theses retailers may pass on the savings to thier customers but we will see. I plan to buy a battlewagon to use at this event.
Forcing people to buy deff rollas? They don't even know enough about their own products to spell them correctly...they call them "rollers" in the description. You can buy 3 BW (minus the "rollers") and 3 sets of boyz from an online retailer for about $225. I doubt they even sell 1 online.
Tactics wise, they need 30 moar boyz, and then they would only frighten fluffy lists...IF the orks go first.
Forcing people to buy deff rollas? They don't even know enough about their own products to spell them correctly...they call them "rollers" in the description. You can buy 3 BW (minus the "rollers") and 3 sets of boyz from an online retailer for about $225. I doubt they even sell 1 online.
Tactics wise, they need 30 moar boyz, and then they would only frighten fluffy lists...IF the orks go first.
If they wanted to really push it, it would have been 5 battlewagons for the blitz brigade formation. If they threw in a sizable discount, it might have been tempting given that its one of our few competitive choices.
Forcing people to buy deff rollas? They don't even know enough about their own products to spell them correctly...they call them "rollers" in the description. You can buy 3 BW (minus the "rollers") and 3 sets of boyz from an online retailer for about $225. I doubt they even sell 1 online.
Tactics wise, they need 30 moar boyz, and then they would only frighten fluffy lists...IF the orks go first.
If they wanted to really push it, it would have been 5 battlewagons for the blitz brigade formation. If they threw in a sizable discount, it might have been tempting given that its one of our few competitive choices.
Yea...The Road Krew has no discount at all...so it doesn't matter how many models are in it. Add as many full priced models as you want!
JimOnMars wrote: Yea...The Road Krew has no discount at all...so it doesn't matter how many models are in it. Add as many full priced models as you want!
They do that quite often on their bundles, which is bizarre, it makes one realise that GW is a genuinely "special" company with a very "special" understanding of commerce and that they are completely exempt from the usual humdrum reality of making deals that make sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if GW's next CEO was Willy Wonka himself and their head office relocated to the Land of Oz.
I was just thinking more of the special rules from the formation.
Just curious on how useful or crappy it would be.
GW's Webstore Blog reveals some details about the Land Raider Spearhead ( ignoring Damage Charts ), the Line Breaker Squadron of vindicators can focus their fire into an apocalyptic blast, but the Ork Road Krew, not much is said other than talk about a turn-two charge.
I was just thinking more of the special rules from the formation.
Just curious on how useful or crappy it would be.
GW's Webstore Blog reveals some details about the Land Raider Spearhead ( ignoring Damage Charts ), the Line Breaker Squadron of vindicators can focus their fire into an apocalyptic blast, but the Ork Road Krew, not much is said other than talk about a turn-two charge.
Rismonite wrote: Is it just me.. or are 3 Nobz, one with Klaw, better then a Deff Dread?
Depends on the enemy. No guardsman can ever hurt a dread. Anything less than st6, without auto glances, can ever hurt a dread in combat. Plus the dreads in combat are st10, insta-killing any t5.
Then again Necron warriors will drop one in one turn, probably. All depends.
Rismonite wrote: Is it just me.. or are 3 Nobz, one with Klaw, better then a Deff Dread?
It's all about the Ld. Dreads don't need to worry but MANz are Ld 7?!?!
Bully Boyz fixes Ld and gives WS5 for free! Just need more.
A single autocannon shot can wreck a dred, probably wouldn't wound a MegaNob. Str 8+ ID's them but still only losing one model per shot.
MANz are generally more mobile with Trukks and BW's. Dreds can run I guess?
I love Bully Boyz. Best formation Orks have.
Rage Dreds that run 6" would be great.
May be my meta but when I was playing Orks I found my deff dreads oddly survivable and nothing was more glorious than watching them rip vehicles apart.
My Kanz on the other hand...not so reliable :p
Really do wish Walkers would get some kind of boon. I really miss my walker Ork army something fierce. I'd rebuild that list in a heartbeat if Walkers got a bit better.
The dread Mob formation is slightly better as it gives walkers ere we go.
Thus granting rerolling charge ranges and allowing dreds to move run and charge during a waaagh. That kinda helps thier mobility especially with a formation that allows multiple waaaghs.
Ork vehicles should all get ramshackle and it should work on a 4+. Walkers in general should get increased movement, cos a 20 feet tall metal robot thing just can't move at the same speed as a 6 foot tall human.
A couple of us went to a 20 man event this weekend and took orks. My buddy went undefeated with his and i lost to the store Ace but did manage to deny him points.
he took s2nd, i took 6th. It was fun. Keys to victory: lucky stick and horde tactics!
Jancoran wrote: A couple of us went to a 20 man event this weekend and took orks. My buddy went undefeated with his and i lost to the store Ace but did manage to deny him points.
he took s2nd, i took 6th. It was fun. Keys to victory: lucky stick and horde tactics!
Congratz, what ur buddy use for his orks.
Also, are there official rules for the gargant? I've seen the model b4 but have never seen rules? If there are rules then where can I find them?
Jancoran wrote: A couple of us went to a 20 man event this weekend and took orks. My buddy went undefeated with his and i lost to the store Ace but did manage to deny him points.
he took s2nd, i took 6th. It was fun. Keys to victory: lucky stick and horde tactics!
Congratz, what ur buddy use for his orks.
Also, are there official rules for the gargant? I've seen the model b4 but have never seen rules? If there are rules then where can I find them?
His list was Meganobz in Battle Wagons and some Orks to go with them.
My list was Meganobz in trukks with lootas added and two huge swarms of boyz.
Orks are really fun to play all hordey and stuff, with some hammers flying around to wreak havok and even the scales against big uns. He spent his "loota points" on upscale transports. i might actually do that too next time because: Scattter Bikes. At the points level we were playing, the Scatter spam was pretty convincing.
Orks:
Biker boss with DLS Biker dok with grot orderly
challenge mek
29 choppa boyz with bp,pk nob
9 choppa boyz with bp nob in a trukk
2 x koptas
5 tankbustas in a trukk
2 x 5 lootas
5 lobbas with ammo runts
Bully boyz - 3 x (2 ks, 1 skorcha, trukk)
VSG with 3 shields
CSM:
Kharn
Cypher
2 x 10 cultists
KDK formation - 2 x 3 bikes some of them with melta and 10 dogs
Sorconclave - 4 lvl3 biker sorcs with axes, 3 familliars and 1 balestar (you can take that in sorconclave, right?)
Knight with 24 s6 ap3 rending shots and a s5 ap4 large blast barrage
He got 3 invizes and i got 1-st turn so he had to deploy at the board edge away from lobbas and lootas for fear of loosing half of the unbuffed deathstar. I moved in the middle of the map but stayed protected with vsg. Lobbas still got a few shots at cultists and scattered on top of Cypher and Kharn. 3+ saves negated most damage and all i got was a wound to Kharn and Cypher. He than moved forward but decided to not just run straight in the middle of my army with a blob. Instead he moved on a flank, invized dogs, knight and cultists so that i had 0 targets to shoot at with lobbas. Knight than put all 3 shields down and got a large blast on top of 4 bunched up trukks. s5 against av10. And he got three 6-s and one 5 and than also glanced with a bolter. Luckilly, nothing got stunned, immobilized or exploded. I had 2 vp from maelstorm and he got nothing and as i was not in a good position to charge his hit-and-running invisible psy-shreiking army i had to retreat and remain out of charge range. Lootas put a few wounds into dogs. The next 2 turns were uneventful like that. He moved cautiously forward, invized everything, shot a knight killing a few boyz and putting a few hp here and there, i moved backwards remaining out of charge range and hoping for maelstorm and better position. Eventually, i put tankbustas forward a bit to lure him into being surrounded and charged by my whole army. Plus, he was a bit behind on maelstorm so that was his only reliable option anyway. He moved a blob of 9 dogs, Kharn, Cypher and 2 sorcs forward, killed tankbustas and than i surrounded him with 3*5 meganobz, koptas and ~20 boyz with boss and dok - mek died from knight's barrage earlier. Shooting with all this stuff killed absolutely nothing as he had an ever-lasting inviz and 4++ from divination but than lootas went crazy and shot down a dog. Surrounded him with trukks to block the knight off and block one way of hit-and-running out. Lost a bunch of boyz, pk nob in boy'z squad, 2 meganobz and killed one sorc and 7 dogs. He than hit and ran out, psy shreiked killing 2 more meganobz, shot, charged and killed a squad of 3 meganobz and kopta as i bauble wrapped the rest. Luckilly, i managed to block the knight off with trukks. Than he got shot (1 dog died) and dcharged with the remaining boyz and 5+3 meganobz. Lost everything but Kharn and surrendered as i was also a bit ahead on maelstorm cause lobbas managed to kill a few bikes scoring 2 maelstorm VP for me and he still had scoring cards he couldn't get.
Was a pretty uneventful and not very interesting game but they all are when everyone's running wizards en masse. Basically, could have saved 4+ hours and rolled a few dice on maelstorm right from the start. Well, but that's 40k now and orks still won, so yay i guess.
Orks:
Biker boss with DLS Biker dok with grot orderly
challenge mek
29 choppa boyz with bp,pk nob
9 choppa boyz with bp nob in a trukk
2 x koptas
5 tankbustas in a trukk
2 x 5 lootas
5 lobbas with ammo runts
Bully boyz - 3 x (2 ks, 1 skorcha, trukk)
VSG with 3 shields
CSM:
Kharn
Cypher
2 x 10 cultists
KDK formation - 2 x 3 bikes some of them with melta and 10 dogs
Sorconclave - 4 lvl3 biker sorcs with axes, 3 familliars and 1 balestar (you can take that in sorconclave, right?)
Knight with 24 s6 ap3 rending shots and a s5 ap4 large blast barrage
He got 3 invizes and i got 1-st turn so he had to deploy at the board edge away from lobbas and lootas for fear of loosing half of the unbuffed deathstar. I moved in the middle of the map but stayed protected with vsg. Lobbas still got a few shots at cultists and scattered on top of Cypher and Kharn. 3+ saves negated most damage and all i got was a wound to Kharn and Cypher. He than moved forward but decided to not just run straight in the middle of my army with a blob. Instead he moved on a flank, invized dogs, knight and cultists so that i had 0 targets to shoot at with lobbas. Knight than put all 3 shields down and got a large blast on top of 4 bunched up trukks. s5 against av10. And he got three 6-s and one 5 and than also glanced with a bolter. Luckilly, nothing got stunned, immobilized or exploded. I had 2 vp from maelstorm and he got nothing and as i was not in a good position to charge his hit-and-running invisible psy-shreiking army i had to retreat and remain out of charge range. Lootas put a few wounds into dogs. The next 2 turns were uneventful like that. He moved cautiously forward, invized everything, shot a knight killing a few boyz and putting a few hp here and there, i moved backwards remaining out of charge range and hoping for maelstorm and better position. Eventually, i put tankbustas forward a bit to lure him into being surrounded and charged by my whole army. Plus, he was a bit behind on maelstorm so that was his only reliable option anyway. He moved a blob of 9 dogs, Kharn, Cypher and 2 sorcs forward, killed tankbustas and than i surrounded him with 3*5 meganobz, koptas and ~20 boyz with boss and dok - mek died from knight's barrage earlier. Shooting with all this stuff killed absolutely nothing as he had an ever-lasting inviz and 4++ from divination but than lootas went crazy and shot down a dog. Surrounded him with trukks to block the knight off and block one way of hit-and-running out. Lost a bunch of boyz, pk nob in boy'z squad, 2 meganobz and killed one sorc and 7 dogs. He than hit and ran out, psy shreiked killing 2 more meganobz, shot, charged and killed a squad of 3 meganobz and kopta as i bauble wrapped the rest. Luckilly, i managed to block the knight off with trukks. Than he got shot (1 dog died) and dcharged with the remaining boyz and 5+3 meganobz. Lost everything but Kharn and surrendered as i was also a bit ahead on maelstorm cause lobbas managed to kill a few bikes scoring 2 maelstorm VP for me and he still had scoring cards he couldn't get.
Was a pretty uneventful and not very interesting game but they all are when everyone's running wizards en masse. Basically, could have saved 4+ hours and rolled a few dice on maelstorm right from the start. Well, but that's 40k now and orks still won, so yay i guess.
Damn, normally whenever I play against my CSM friend its a lot more brutal and fun, he runs chosen list with Abbadon with auxiliary support unit like Heldrakes. It's unfortunate the game wasn't as fun as it could have been, given that Orks and Chaos are around similar power levels. Also, I think he may have cheated accidentally as the Cyclopia Cabal is from the Black Legion Supplement so I highly doubt they can take the balestar which is from the Crimson Slaughter supplement.
I thik there's something about relics from any source in that supplement where sorconclave comes from. But anyway, divination didn't do all that much apart form 4++ and a few rerolls for a knight.
The main thing is that bully boyz are kinda nice. They kept knight at bay and managed to put a bunch of wounds even through inviz with weight of high str ap2. And had decent durability. Trukks are an issue though. When vsg gets down - and it does go down vs shooters pretty quickly - trukks are not a very durable platform. I mitigate it with 2 extra trukks with cheaper squads like naked boyz and 5 tankbustas. It might even be a good idea to take an empty trukk for 30 footslogging boyz as it's gona be a backup and will even have objective secured which is really nice. Considering it instead of one kopta.
To be honest, i'm pretty happy with bully boyz. Not because they're performing so darn amazing - they're just good i think - but because they allow to lower the model count and are way easier to position than stuff like hordes, tides and even biker hordes. And positioning eats up to 50% of the game time as it's the most important thing for orks now.
JimOnMars wrote: No, the units in the formation, and ICs, work like units taken in any other way.
Okay I might be able to get that to work better for me. I like putting ghaz with a large unit of 'ard boyz.
Actually JimonMars is wrong on this part, there's a clause called "Boss Mob" where they're required to be deployed as a single unit, and IC cannot leave or join the unit.
The council specifically has a rule they must be together and can't leave or join other units.
The council is a lot of points however it is more durable together then if ghaz was taken solo.
Ghaz with a 2++ and 6+ fnp is nice however he will die from weight of fire. This is why the lucky stil warboss eats up the majority of atks. You also lose durability without a pain boy or Maddoc for a 5+ fnp and his extra klaw and rampage helps.
You lose the massive bonus to WS which has ghaz at ws9.
You lose the 2 extra warlord traits which gives him useful abilities like reroll to hit on his Pk or extra atks such as rage. It's a Death Star and few other stars can go head to head with it.
But ya I'd still rather be able to take ghaz seperate and cut down the points.
Glitcha wrote: Is there a cheap way to get ghazgkul star on the table with out using the council of waagh?
I was thinking about using the waagh band formation and a CAD with ghaz as LoW.
You can take him, but he can't WAAAGH! Every turn without the council. He'll only get 1 turn of 2++ in any other configuration.
Well Zog! I was hoping I didn't need the council. Its just so points heavy. Does the council have to stay together?
Just to clarify the answer to this question the Council of Waaagh! has to stay together, the formation for the unit has the Boss Mob special rule that means the IC's cannot choose to leave the unit and must be joined together as one unit when they deploy. No splitting up the IC's amongst your other units. If we could take Ghazghkull instead of a Warboss in the Waaagh!-band detachment we would really be onto something but that's a nice thing that we can't have because... I don't know why.
Whoops, you all are right. Shows me for quoting rules for books I don't own. I decided not to upgrade the book because of this exact reason...Ghaz is just too hard to put into a game and gain his 2++ on all turns.
One possible thing I would like to try from the orkurion is 10 single deffkoptas waaaghing every turn, getting maelstrom points or just eating overwatch. Has anyone tried that?
Glitcha wrote: Is there a cheap way to get ghazgkul star on the table with out using the council of waagh?
I was thinking about using the waagh band formation and a CAD with ghaz as LoW.
You can take him, but he can't WAAAGH! Every turn without the council. He'll only get 1 turn of 2++ in any other configuration.
Well Zog! I was hoping I didn't need the council. Its just so points heavy. Does the council have to stay together?
Just to clarify the answer to this question the Council of Waaagh! has to stay together, the formation for the unit has the Boss Mob special rule that means the IC's cannot choose to leave the unit and must be joined together as one unit when they deploy. No splitting up the IC's amongst your other units. If we could take Ghazghkull instead of a Warboss in the Waaagh!-band detachment we would really be onto something but that's a nice thing that we can't have because... I don't know why.
I know that was a question asked in the faq several times but looking at similar questions I doubt it's going to change.
However hopeful faq changes that people asked are
Mob rule 6+ rolls based on the +2 waagh supplement. 7-8 has no result...hoping for auto pass or fearless until end of turn.
The waagh band and the great waagh detschment have the same special rules like wtf? The Orkorion and core army choice rules are nearly identical. Maybe GW will errata one. Doubt it
Tankbusters and nobs. Like what do that have rokkit launchers or what and how do I exchange the rokkit launcher for powerklaw
Yea I'm not sure what other faqs are gonna help us? Maybe deff dreads get gifted more atks like dreads but again I doubt it cause we are not marines
Anyone else know what possible fixes the faq for Orks can possibly have?
Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...
those are changes in the rules not really faqs. I don't expect them to change the Ork codex. The only real codex change in all the faqs was the seperate errata that dreads receiving +2 atk however that's more inline with making all the space marine units consistent. I doubt we get super heavies or other new options. Was just trying to look for clarifications that might benefit us. There is a small chance for deff dreads get more atks but I doubt it still.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...
Dude, if wierdboys were able to get bikes that would be amazing, and I would model one up so fast...
The FAQs have been full of rule changes though. Granted, I doubt we will see much in the realm of what I posted, but I think it definitely could happen.
Unfortunately, like koooaei points out, any changes headed our way are more likely to be for the worse than for the better. The only potential things I could see them ruling is maaaaaybe making cybork body stack with existing FNP (Mad Dok Grotsnik being the clear suspect here), maybe giving us similar dreadnought treatment for our deff dreads, and the best one is throwing us a bone and letting Ghazghkull be taken as the Warboss in all the big formations. But judging from their previous rulings, I highly doubt it.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: The FAQs have been full of rule changes though. Granted, I doubt we will see much in the realm of what I posted, but I think it definitely could happen.
There has not been any rules hanged outside of errata however there are people who refuse to believe they read the rules wrong and insist they were changes in the faqs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: We got changes. Tankbustas can't use nades and bombers can't jink and bomb. What else do you want?!
They can still use one Bomb per unit. Which is a big change from how people played and they are less powerful for it but still very good.
The bombers I've always played you can't drop bombs and jink. The faq most people didn't play right was jinking transports and embarked units snap shooting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: Unfortunately, like koooaei points out, any changes headed our way are more likely to be for the worse than for the better. The only potential things I could see them ruling is maaaaaybe making cybork body stack with existing FNP (Mad Dok Grotsnik being the clear suspect here), maybe giving us similar dreadnought treatment for our deff dreads, and the best one is throwing us a bone and letting Ghazghkull be taken as the Warboss in all the big formations. But judging from their previous rulings, I highly doubt it.
Mob rule doesnt have a 7 or 8 result so maybe we get auto pass or fearless until end of turn if they feel generous. This makes the waagh ghazkull supplment formations slightly better.
I think we'll have a really short FAQ that won't change much at all, I'm not even sure what they would include other than allowing Tankbusta Nobz to take a PK and clarifying if Meks can be taken on their own as HQs (they'll probably rule that they can't). I don't think Dreads will get more attacks or Ghazghkull being able to replace a Warboss in our detachments, they either won't address the Cybork Body thing or will confirm that it doesn't stack, anything over a 6 on Mob Rule will count as Squabble. I'm very eager to see what our FAQs include but I don't think we'll see any big changes at all.
Orks, while iconic, are no near as strong in the community as the space marine lobby, so I doubt there will be any errata. I would love to be wrong and I'll still wate for the FAQ. The question that concern me is the possibility of using the Ghaz artefacts with a CAD.
xlDuke wrote: I think we'll have a really short FAQ that won't change much at all, I'm not even sure what they would include other than allowing Tankbusta Nobz to take a PK and clarifying if Meks can be taken on their own as HQs (they'll probably rule that they can't). I don't think Dreads will get more attacks or Ghazghkull being able to replace a Warboss in our detachments, they either won't address the Cybork Body thing or will confirm that it doesn't stack, anything over a 6 on Mob Rule will count as Squabble. I'm very eager to see what our FAQs include but I don't think we'll see any big changes at all.
Pretty much this. 7&8 on mob rule, possibly cybork, maybe +2A for walkers (which would be awesome), and probably confirmation of green tide "with opponent's permission."
Everything else will simply be "No." It will be 2 or 3 FAQs that count, and maybe a page or page and half of RTFM (i.e. No).
I've asked them several times and they have been very consistent about not balancing anything with these FAQs. It will take a far, far larger uprising (and dropping of revenue) before they would ever consider making Orks competitive.
I've been trying really hard to make the Orkurion work without the Ghaz Star, because I hate running Deathstars.
My latest attempt was something of a Failure.
Spoiler:
Great WAAAAGH Band:
Command:
Painboy <- goes in wagon
Core:
Waaaaagh band
3 Meganobz (1 Killsaw, BP, Kombi-Skorcha) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
15 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) <- Goes in Wagon.
10 Gretchin + Runtherd
Mek <- Goes in Wagon
Warboss (EA, PK, DFK) <- Goes in Wagon
Auxillaries:
Battlewagon (Ram, Rokkit)
Warbuggy (Big Shoota)
Warbuggy (Rokkit)
Warbuggy (Rokkit)
Warbuggy (Skorcha)
5 Tankbustas in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
I've played it three times now, and won all 3 games, but none of my opponents were running top tier lists.
There are 4 Giant Flaws in this list:
1) Derpy Mob rule. If I could use ordinary Mob rule, I'd be getting swept so very much less, and I would be shouting curses at GW 3-4 times a game.
2) I can't take enough meks, or painboys. There is nobody to eat challenges in my units of boyz, so nobs are constantly getting challenged out and killed which leaves the squad feckless, and I can't walk boyz, because there is nothing to keep the alive.
3) The Challenge requirement on the Warboss is dumb. The Avatar isn't all that special, but, a warboss being forced to challenge him is stupid. I had 3 other characters in that combat, but the Warboss had to accept the challenge.
4) Kill points. I've got a million of them. I could reduce that somewhat by increasing unit sizes, but I don't think that will put me in a position to win kill points because the required part of the Orcurion demands so many damn units.
If I happen to Roll a 1 for my Warlord Trait, I will absolutely dominated opponents with this list, but short of that I'm starting to feel like it just can't be done without a ghazstar.
The Ghazcurion without Ghaz is complete crap. Expensive, next to no staying ability, no mobility, no shooting. Orks need Fearless/high leadership, FNP, any save, S4 or even all together.
Sorry to go completely off topic (especially with all the anti-Ghaz-curion posts) but:
I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.
Anyway, I was wondering if I was just being mad or eccentric, but if you have first turn against most armies, you can have ~ 5 - 9 pks in there face before they can even react.
Is this in anyway good, or does it just make me TFG violating RAW and having a army to show for it?
Also: am I the only one that wishes that Zagstruk had a Warboss statline or something? (actually, this but for all of the special characters)
koooaei wrote: Did you have much use out of every turn WAAAGH! and HoWs?
My Warboss never lived passed turn 3, but I did use 3 turns of WAAAGH in all 3 games.
The HoW, despite seeming undwhelming came up huge in one of the games. I won a game vs Eldar on the back of HOW. He had a bunch of Striking Scorpions. Those things murder Orks, but HoW can take care of business. It also did some good against Fire Dragons.
GeraldFordForever wrote: I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.
Yeah, I've been pulling of T1 charges with Trukk Boyz here and there. Da Vulcha Skwad doesn't work, because it must deep strike. When you stumble on something good like that you've always got to remember GW hates Orks and doesn't give them good rules.
I do have plans to try the Stormboy variation as well as a Bikestar variation.
GeraldFordForever wrote: Sorry to go completely off topic (especially with all the anti-Ghaz-curion posts) but:
I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.
Anyway, I was wondering if I was just being mad or eccentric, but if you have first turn against most armies, you can have ~ 5 - 9 pks in there face before they can even react.
Is this in anyway good, or does it just make me TFG violating RAW and having a army to show for it?
Also: am I the only one that wishes that Zagstruk had a Warboss statline or something? (actually, this but for all of the special characters)
I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.
Yeah, I've been pulling of T1 charges with Trukk Boyz here and there. Da Vulcha Skwad doesn't work, because it must deep strike. When you stumble on something good like that you've always got to remember GW hates Orks and doesn't give them good rules.
I do have plans to try the Stormboy variation as well as a Bikestar variation.
I was planning on just deploying Da Vulcha Skwad on foot, yeah, it doesn't capitalise on the accurate DS, but I'd rather take a chance at first turn charges personally.
How do you find the Trukk boyz work/ how your opponent reacts when they get the first turn charge?
It seems like a pretty nice trick for a one trick army
<rant>
Also:
If you put the Ghaz-council in a BW and did a ~3" 'centre of mass deployment' + 6" move + 6" deploy + 3.5" run + 7" charge you could have a first turn charging deathstar! Take that wulfen Yeah, this doesn't make it points effective, but the look on your opponents face when >25 pk attacks hit him on the first turn.
</rant>
I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.
That's a great point. What if you put a bastion or two with the top layer filled with stormboyz? That sounds pretty effective and gives you some staying power.
GeraldFordForever wrote: I was planning on just deploying Da Vulcha Skwad on foot, yeah, it doesn't capitalise on the accurate DS, but I'd rather take a chance at first turn charges personally.
You can't. It's against the rules. That formation MUST deep strike. That is why it sucks. If you could deploy it, it would be decent.
GeraldFordForever wrote: How do you find the Trukk boyz work/ how your opponent reacts when they get the first turn charge?
Eh. If my opponent knows what he can pick which units get charged and even deny me the charge if he wants. It is most useful against infiltrators, or units that move toward me on their 1st turn. Swooping Hawks have been 1st turn charging ever since the new Eldar codex dropped. Genestealer cult can 1st turn charge. There isn't really any magic here. Its not bad, but it isn't a panacea.
GeraldFordForever wrote: If you put the Ghaz-council in a BW and did a ~3" 'centre of mass deployment' + 6" move + 6" deploy + 3.5" run + 7" charge you could have a first turn charging deathstar! Take that wulfen
wulfen will beat the ever living bejesus out of a Council of the Waaaaaagh. Ghaz himself might survive, but the rest of the council will die to even a really small squad of Wolfen. You've got to remember that Ghaz, being your warlord, must always issue and accept challenges. That means he can only tank the attacks of the 1 character wolfen, and the other wulfen with their massive amounts of S7+ AP:2 attacks will make short work of the rest of the council.
Technically you can deploy that way, but you can't use rotation to gain any distance. If you max out the vehicles move, it will remain sideways after movement.
I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.
That's a great point. What if you put a bastion or two with the top layer filled with stormboyz? That sounds pretty effective and gives you some staying power.
I'd avoid extra dt tests though. Was thinking more about vsg or aegis.
So call me nuts but I want to try a list with three 'orkanauts (I know, I know...) and I was hoping someone could offer some pointers. I'm thinking about either using the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew for the meagre bonuses the formation offers or two Gorkanauts and one Morkanaut for the KFF coverage. Personally I think Gorkanauts are better but if I'm running multiple hunk o' junks perhaps the 5++ for all three will make a big difference. Which do you think would be best/least bad?
Other than these walkers not being great units I have the problem of what else to take to support them. Perhaps some fire support in Gunwagons? Greentide for more madness? More Walkers? Comments much appreciated
gungo wrote: Gorkanauts are good in the dread mob formation since they get ere we go and can move run and charge each turn. However that's just two units.
You can only charge after running on the turn you declare your WAAAAAGH.
IMO, the best part of Dread mob is the HOW, and being able to reroll 1 dice when you charge. Most of the Time I'd rather shoot than run.
I've tried the Dread Mob a couple of times already and it's great fun, definitely something I'll try again. The one-dice re-roll for charge ranges and HoW is very useful but it feels like the Killa Kans are a hefty tax to pay - anyway this time I'm looking for something a little different.
If you feel like throwing points to the wind, you can try out morgrok's boss boys. You take three big meks, a warboss, and a ML 2 wierdboy. One mek must be the warlord, but he gets the ability to have D3 units outflank with acute senses. You can take this with the Krushin' Krew for some possible fun times.
If you do this, please take a picture of your opponent's face when he sees your gorkanauts outflanking in his backfield.
That's exactly the sort of kunnin' plan I'm looking for, now I need to figure out what to do with those Big Meks. Finkin' Kap is a no-brainer for Mogrok considering his fluff, he fits nicely with the walkers fluffwise as well. I might go really mad and try out the Tellyport Blasta as well. For the rest of the list I'm not so sure, perhaps some Lootas with MA Big Mek and a SAG for the other one. Competitive list building has gone out the window for this one I think
I've been working on a competitive list lately. Trying to get away from my stompa and try some other stuff. The running theme I've come up with is 2+ LOS to a 2+ armor or invul (2++ or 4++ or 5++) plus FNP.
The only issue i'm coming up with is a lack of mobility. Either taking a battle wagon or a kustom battle fortress. Of course a battle wagon is the better of options based on points.
I ran this list the other day.
Great waagh band + CAD Command: Big mek in mega armor with kff and da lucky stick (pretty much a must have)
Core: Waagh band: (Yeah the same bonus for the most part with the great waagh band only difference is great waagh band can waagh every turn. Where the waagh band allows you to waagh on turn 1)
-Warboss in mega armor with Da Supa Cybork body and attack squig and boss pole
-Grots no upgrades
-mek boy no upgrades
- nobs 5 man blob. 2 with power klaws that are not he boss nob. (This way a power klaw can't get challenged out) Unit in a Trukk.
- 1 'ard boy 14 man blob with nob with power klaw
-5 boys squads 10 man with shootas and nob with power klaw and shoota in trukks
Aux:
-Battle wagon with ram and big shoota
-Lootas 5 man
CAD HQ: Pain boy
Troops: 2 grot squads
Fast attack: dakka jet with an extra set of gunz and fly boss.
The nice part about this list was when I rolled up my warlord trait for the warboss he got prophet of the waagh. Since he already has the waagh rule, made the whole army fearless. By Turn 2 most of my opponent it was dead. He was playing white scares bike army and the shoota boyz were laying on the dakka good.
xlDuke wrote: That's exactly the sort of kunnin' plan I'm looking for, now I need to figure out what to do with those Big Meks. Finkin' Kap is a no-brainer for Mogrok considering his fluff, he fits nicely with the walkers fluffwise as well. I might go really mad and try out the Tellyport Blasta as well. For the rest of the list I'm not so sure, perhaps some Lootas with MA Big Mek and a SAG for the other one. Competitive list building has gone out the window for this one I think
I found that giving all the meks mega armor and putting them in with squads of trukk boys (9 boys, 1 nob, and 1 mega armored big mek fills it to the 12 man capacity) works out pretty well. Especially if you give the meks killsaws. The mek can soak up the non-ap 1-2 hits, and the boys can be good LOS fodder. And you also get basically 2 power klaws per squad, one of which is armor bane. That's some pretty cool stuff
We have formations and supplement rules. Heck you can play a game now in regular 40k with ghazghkul running around the table with a 2++ invul the whole game.
Has anyone tried a Mega-armored warboss (or even just a big choppa warboss) surrounded by a swarm of 19 grots for LoS? You have a 5pt runtherd for challenges.
JimOnMars wrote: Has anyone tried a Mega-armored warboss (or even just a big choppa warboss) surrounded by a swarm of 19 grots for LoS? You have a 5pt runtherd for challenges.
Pretty cheap "death" star.
Don't think that would really work since you are common T2. You will be taking on a lot more damage. Even lasguns will wound you on 3's. yeah you can 2+ armor or 2+ LOS from the boss, but you'll be taking on more damage.
Glitcha wrote: I've been working on a competitive list lately. Trying to get away from my stompa and try some other stuff. The running theme I've come up with is 2+ LOS to a 2+ armor or invul (2++ or 4++ or 5++) plus FNP.
The only issue i'm coming up with is a lack of mobility. Either taking a battle wagon or a kustom battle fortress. Of course a battle wagon is the better of options based on points.
I ran this list the other day.
Great waagh band + CAD Command: Big mek in mega armor with kff and da lucky stick (pretty much a must have)
Core: Waagh band: (Yeah the same bonus for the most part with the great waagh band only difference is great waagh band can waagh every turn. Where the waagh band allows you to waagh on turn 1)
-Warboss in mega armor with Da Supa Cybork body and attack squig and boss pole
-Grots no upgrades
-mek boy no upgrades
- nobs 5 man blob. 2 with power klaws that are not he boss nob. (This way a power klaw can't get challenged out) Unit in a Trukk.
- 1 'ard boy 14 man blob with nob with power klaw
-5 boys squads 10 man with shootas and nob with power klaw and shoota in trukks
Aux:
-Battle wagon with ram and big shoota
-Lootas 5 man
CAD HQ: Pain boy
Troops: 2 grot squads
Fast attack: dakka jet with an extra set of gunz and fly boss.
The nice part about this list was when I rolled up my warlord trait for the warboss he got prophet of the waagh. Since he already has the waagh rule, made the whole army fearless. By Turn 2 most of my opponent it was dead. He was playing white scares bike army and the shoota boyz were laying on the dakka good.
For the cost of a dakkajet with extra shoota and flyboss in a list with waaagh each turn you might as well just take a wazbom blastjet with the 5pt tellyporta upgrade(they are both 145pts). It's only 18in range but my god 2x str8 ap2 Insta death blasts with a single shot strd6+4 ap1 guns are amazing at killing things like MCs, GMC, most vehicles, and 2+/3+ infantry with or without fnp and it comes with a 5++ sv. The dakkajet just gives you a 12x str6 ap4 shooting and slightly better shooting for flyers.
That would be a time where you absolutely have to take the big bosspole.
Which is really really hard to take now that the Great Waaagh detachment is no more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm taking some warbikes out to a GT soon.
They are nerfing the Void Shield Generator into oblivion, so I don't have that to protect them. Zhardsnark probably isn't in the list, at the very least he isn't my warlord. But I do have a Stompa, so I can mitigate leadership to some degree.
I'm looking for something fast, and relatively survivable. I will frequently be reserving them if I don't have 1st turn of a bonus to saves (Night Fighting, Stealth in Ruins).
What do you guys thinks works better:
Option A (Balanced): 3 units of 5 Warbikes with a BP + PK Nob
Option B (Shooty): 3 units of 8 Warbikers NO NOB
Option C (MSU): 6 Units of 3 Warbikers + some extra meks in my Stompa.
That would be a time where you absolutely have to take the big bosspole.
Which is really really hard to take now that the Great Waaagh detachment is no more.
According to GW's facebook page, the great Waagh detachment is still valid choice. Of course they put you should talk to your opponent first. So before you take it to an event, I'd check with the TO to see if they would allow it. Don't see why not. Gives the 4 different detachments to use. (CAD, Horde, Great Waagh, and Great Waagh Band)
They are nerfing the Void Shield Generator into oblivion, so I don't have that to protect them. Zhardsnark probably isn't in the list, at the very least he isn't my warlord. But I do have a Stompa, so I can mitigate leadership to some degree.
I'm looking for something fast, and relatively survivable. I will frequently be reserving them if I don't have 1st turn of a bonus to saves (Night Fighting, Stealth in Ruins).
What do you guys thinks works better:
Option A (Balanced): 3 units of 5 Warbikes with a BP + PK Nob
Option B (Shooty): 3 units of 8 Warbikers NO NOB
Option C (MSU): 6 Units of 3 Warbikers + some extra meks in my Stompa.
I would go for Option A. Do not underestimate the PK-bikernob.
I second this. Never underestimate the power of a Powerklaw. It is the most versatile tool we've got, and can really pack a punch. You will get a lot more damage out of a power klaw than you will get out of boys. (Unless you are fighting nothing but horde armies)
Glitcha wrote: According to GW's facebook page, the great Waagh detachment is still valid choice. Of course they put you should talk to your opponent first. So before you take it to an event, I'd check with the TO to see if they would allow it. Don't see why not. Gives the 4 different detachments to use. (CAD, Horde, Great Waagh, and Great Waagh Band)
I run events, and I wouldn't allow it. I had someone bring in an email from GW that said they could use the 3.5 edition of the CSM codex. I told them "Sorry, but the policy of our events is that we use the newest versions of the rules for each faction". I had another guy bring in an email from GW that told him he could use Apoc formations in normal 40K games. I told him "Sorry, but the policy of our events is that we only use 40K approved formations".
If you ask, GW will tell you that you can do it (So long as you talk to your opponent). That doesn't make it the rules, and an event that allows players to do anything GW gives them permission to do would be a really weird event, and probably not fun for anyone.
If you feel like throwing points to the wind, you can try out morgrok's boss boys. You take three big meks, a warboss, and a ML 2 wierdboy. One mek must be the warlord, but he gets the ability to have D3 units outflank with acute senses. You can take this with the Krushin' Krew for some possible fun times.
If you do this, please take a picture of your opponent's face when he sees your gorkanauts outflanking in his backfield.
I saw an 1850 point army which was two Krushin' Krews and Mogrok's Bossboyz. It made for a nice orky equivalent to a knight army. Devastating, no, but the outflank gave it more of an edge than you'd expect. The 'deployed' krew had a big mek with a force field in each, whilst the outflanking ones provided quite a threat to units on the flank.
It also caught the opponent by surprise because people are used to things that size being superheavies - they weren't expecting them to be able to overwatch - and Gorkanauts put out a LOT of overwatch! A skorcha and many, many shots can put a serious hole in a charging unit.
Glitcha wrote: According to GW's facebook page, the great Waagh detachment is still valid choice. Of course they put you should talk to your opponent first. So before you take it to an event, I'd check with the TO to see if they would allow it. Don't see why not. Gives the 4 different detachments to use. (CAD, Horde, Great Waagh, and Great Waagh Band)
I run events, and I wouldn't allow it. I had someone bring in an email from GW that said they could use the 3.5 edition of the CSM codex. I told them "Sorry, but the policy of our events is that we use the newest versions of the rules for each faction". I had another guy bring in an email from GW that told him he could use Apoc formations in normal 40K games. I told him "Sorry, but the policy of our events is that we only use 40K approved formations".
If you ask, GW will tell you that you can do it (So long as you talk to your opponent). That doesn't make it the rules, and an event that allows players to do anything GW gives them permission to do would be a really weird event, and probably not fun for anyone.
Those two example are just crazy stupid that players would go out of their way for. I guess we disagree on the point of allowing the Great Waagh detachment for an event. I'm fine with it. Just like i'm fine with the Green tide being used in a regular game of 40k.
xlDuke wrote: So call me nuts but I want to try a list with three 'orkanauts (I know, I know...) and I was hoping someone could offer some pointers. I'm thinking about either using the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew for the meagre bonuses the formation offers or two Gorkanauts and one Morkanaut for the KFF coverage. Personally I think Gorkanauts are better but if I'm running multiple hunk o' junks perhaps the 5++ for all three will make a big difference. Which do you think would be best/least bad?
Other than these walkers not being great units I have the problem of what else to take to support them. Perhaps some fire support in Gunwagons? Greentide for more madness? More Walkers? Comments much appreciated
So I can give you the rundown since I either footslog it or use the walkers. The orkanauts are overcosted but they seem to either die instantly or never die. I like the krushin krew especially with the changes since it was good before. Is it as good as 3 wraithknifbts probably not but its fun. The gorkanauts have a ton of firepower while the morkanaut is there to buff other units with the giant KFF. I like the gorkanaut better personally. Also if you take a big mek with the MFF then you can just shove him in a gorkanaut so that you can split them up some.
On a different note how do you guys think a 300 body list would do at 1850 points?
If you feel like throwing points to the wind, you can try out morgrok's boss boys. You take three big meks, a warboss, and a ML 2 wierdboy. One mek must be the warlord, but he gets the ability to have D3 units outflank with acute senses. You can take this with the Krushin' Krew for some possible fun times.
If you do this, please take a picture of your opponent's face when he sees your gorkanauts outflanking in his backfield.
I saw an 1850 point army which was two Krushin' Krews and Mogrok's Bossboyz. It made for a nice orky equivalent to a knight army. Devastating, no, but the outflank gave it more of an edge than you'd expect. The 'deployed' krew had a big mek with a force field in each, whilst the outflanking ones provided quite a threat to units on the flank.
It also caught the opponent by surprise because people are used to things that size being superheavies - they weren't expecting them to be able to overwatch - and Gorkanauts put out a LOT of overwatch! A skorcha and many, many shots can put a serious hole in a charging unit.
This is great. Now I need 3 nor gorkanauts to go with my other 5 nauts.... Outflanking nauts are hilarious since I've done it before. I also did deep striking nauts with the old great waaagh detachment. I have killed whole space marine squads with a gorkanauts oveewatch. At 2000 points you can take the dread mob formation and the gorkanaut krushin krew for maximum hilariousness. The gw dread mob is good due to the ere we go and d3 HoW on nauts can kill some vehicles at I10 easily.
So I'm going to a the harvester of souls tournament in Spokane Washington this fall (I went to it last year with the ghaz dreddmob. ..didn't win a single game). So this year I'm bringing something a little more competitive (that I hope will win me a game, maybe 2).
Da vulcha skwad formation
Boss zagstruk
5 stromboyz, nob, pk 5 stromboyz, nob, pk 5 stromboyz, nob, pk
1st cad
Zhadsnark
Warbikers x3, nob, pk Warbikers x3, nob, pk Warbikers x3, nob, pk Defkopta x2, tl roket x2, buzzsaw x1
Defkopta x2, tl roket x2, buzzsaw x1
Defkopta x2, tl roket x2, buzzsaw x1
Mek gun x2, lobba x2, ammo runt x2
Mek gun x2, lobba x2, ammo runt x2
Mek gun x2, lobba x2, ammo runt x2
So I know some of these choices aren't very competitive (such as the vulcha skwad ), that is all tying in with a theme of my list, but otherwise the competitive part of this list is "msu".
My adl will have the lobbas and lootas behind it (lootas use the ammo dump for improved shooting), and then my 2 squads of bare bones warbikers hang around out of line of site (turn one objective grabbers), on turn 2, the rest of my army held in reserves will pounce and will systematically grab objectives and kill anything week enough to die to surgical buzzsaw/pk, or combined roket fire, this whole time my lobbas and lootas are putting out as much dakka as possible.
Since almost everything is msu I will not feel bad about losing a single squad of any of my units, we'll maybe except my warlord zhadsnark, who will be attached to a pk Warbiker unit and the painboy for an Outflanking i4 pk.
Tell me what you think?
So far I've had the chance to play this list against imp guard with knight (that was a close game, but a loss at the end), and a humunculus covens list (that was a landslide victory).
Edit
Those 2 games were maelstrom, I have yet to do any other game types with my list. Though that'd what my list is focused on is grabbing objectives, I don't think it will do bad in killpoint games, but it's not an anti deathstar eaither, so Im not sure. Let me know what you guys think how this list will do in kill point or eternal war missions?
geargutz wrote: So I'm going to a the harvester of souls tournament in Spokane Washington this fall (I went to it last year with the ghaz dreddmob. ..didn't win a single game). So this year I'm bringing
My adl will have the lobbas and lootas behind it (lootas use the ammo dump for improved shooting), and then my 2 squads of bare bones warbikers hang around out of line of site (turn one objective grabbers), on turn 2, the rest of my army held in reserves will pounce and will systematically grab objectives and kill anything week enough to die to surgical buzzsaw/pk, or combined roket fire, this whole time my lobbas and lootas are putting out as much dakka as possible.
Since almost everything is msu I will not feel bad about losing a single squad of any of my units, we'll maybe except my warlord zhadsnark, who will be attached to a pk Warbiker unit and the painboy for an Outflanking i4 pk.
Tell me what you think?
So far I've had the chance to play this list against imp guard with knight (that was a close game, but a loss at the end), and a humunculus covens list (that was a landslide victory).
If your Lootas are close to eachother (e.g. in the same ammo dump) then there is a good chance that a riptide can just take them all out regardless of msu or not.
To this extent (and because I'm eternally paranoid of tau) I would maybe have the adl spread out more than normal, because any ignores-cover blasts will just ruin your day (I suspect that was one of the haemonculus' issues).
Otherwise, yeah this list looks great!
Not many armies would have enough firepower to wipe out all of those warbikers, (which are awesome btw).
Other than that, I would maybe take 3 buzzsaws off and put them towards more mek gunz or lootas (this would boost your first-turn presence and your overall firepower).
Looks amazing! would definitely not want to play against it P.S: jealous of the fact that you have 6 mek gunz (damn you GW!)
here is a potential and cheap way to do lobbas..I bought these things for cheap before I went on a long hiatus (2 years). Just got the itch again last week. Glad to be stuck in again!
Anyway.. with some converting and plasticard or my personal favorite..drizzling plastic glue and "shake and bake" in my bitz box ..you can turn these cival war era plastic mortar models into lobbas!. And you get 8 for less then $20 including shipping. they are PERFECT size for lobbas to.
As for mekguns lobbas are still cheap on the GW site. It's the KMK, traktor kannon, smasha gun model that's expensive.
Regarding geargutz list you can't take Mek gunz and zhardsnark as warlord.
If you take zhardsnark as warlord I would combine 2 of the bikes squad troop choices into one bigger blob since zhardsnark makes that unit so much better 2+ cover, skilled rider ignoring terrain, assault grenades and painboy 5+ sv.
"What can I say? the Council with it's ability to run and change isn't a small threat for anywhere on the table, and even jetbikes had problems staying way (if they wanted to shoot) but the rest of the army is just so incredibly fragile without much overall killing power.
I think I might be putting away the Decurion for a while. It's incredibly boring to play with a very unexciting and monolithic style. "
oldzoggy wrote: "What can I say? the Council with it's ability to run and change isn't a small threat for anywhere on the table, and even jetbikes had problems staying way (if they wanted to shoot) but the rest of the army is just so incredibly fragile without much overall killing power.
I think I might be putting away the Decurion for a while. It's incredibly boring to play with a very unexciting and monolithic style. "
Seems like a good reason not to run it
He had marginal success with like a 50/50 ratio in tournaments.
Many of the people he lost to be beat prior but they learned the next time they played him to just ignore or tie up the council.
However in like the 10 games he played ghaz only died once to a guy who got lucky with multiple 6 results on the stomp table and no one left to LOS on ghaz. What I was impressed with is ghaz talking down normal deathstar lists like Thunderwolves. Even though that thunderwolf star killed everyone else but ghaz.
However in like the 10 games he played ghaz only died once to a guy who got lucky with multiple 6 results on the stomp table and no one left to LOS on ghaz.
However in like the 10 games he played ghaz only died once to a guy who got lucky with multiple 6 results on the stomp table and no one left to LOS on ghaz.
You can't los a 6 on a stomp, right?
I don't think so, since LoS is based on wounds inflicted by the opponent and a 6 on the stomp table skips that step and just flat out removes models under the template from the game.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I think it says in the FAQ you can LOS a stomp. I believe the popular ITC also has it set this way.
I stand corrected. Though you still need to be a bit cautious since it is still a draft and not official yet, but hey if it says you can, I'll take it!
Yea no problem with LoS on stomps and both tournaments he played was ITC anyway.
Ghaz council as a whole is decent. The biggest issue is the random units in the crappy core choices. It's not the actual ghaz council at 700 pts that's an issue. The guy in the blog had no issues with ghaz council kicking butt but couldn't build anything decent from the core choices to carry the rest of the list. People who went all out on the council lost hard, people who box them in and tie the council up wins the game by killing everything else the Ork player has. But this is the smart tactic to use vs any deathstar without hit and run.
The council limits points and the fire choices require crap units. Even if you could take Ghazy to replace a warboss in the core formations the decurion would get better, but you are still limited to your boy squads.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: The council limits points and the fire choices require crap units. Even if you could take Ghazy to replace a warboss in the core formations the decurion would get better, but you are still limited to your boy squads.
A 614pt Death Star isn't a problem when your other 1236 points don't do jack.
If your other 1236 points was 600points of bullyboys in 3x trukks with Rams for 120pts and zhardsnark, painboy on bike and 8 warbikers (1 nob w pk) for 405pts, you would still have enough pts to upgrade the ghaz council with a trukk w ram and a lukkystikk MA warboss with 6pts left over to give the other warboss a big choppa believe no one would say the ghaz star was a weak unit. The problem is the core choices suck up over 1000pts on random units.
However in like the 10 games he played ghaz only died once to a guy who got lucky with multiple 6 results on the stomp table and no one left to LOS on ghaz.
You can't los a 6 on a stomp, right?
The GWFAQ says you can.
The problem with the orkorion isn't Ghaz, he is just what he should be - an absoulute cc monster. It's the rest - lots of useless units as taxes. 3 units of boyz, 1 unit of nobz and a warboss as core would have been just fine but no, it has to be 6 boyz squads.
However in like the 10 games he played ghaz only died once to a guy who got lucky with multiple 6 results on the stomp table and no one left to LOS on ghaz.
You can't los a 6 on a stomp, right?
Depends with who you use to play. New draft allows it.
As some of you guys kindly helped me out with some ideas when I asked I thought you might appreciate a little update.
I played my game using the Krushin' Krew last weekend and it turned into a great fluffy battle. Fairly large game in the end, I used Mogrok's Bossboyz alongside the 'nauts - Mogrok with MA attached to a big blob of Lootas, another Big Mek with MA and a smaller Lootas unit and the other Mek with SAG and Gretchin. My other troops were minimum Grot units alongside three units of Tankbustas in Gunwagons, a unit of Flash Gitz with two Weirdboys, Mega Nobz with a Painboy, the Warboss with a medium sized unit of Nobz all in Battlewagons and two single Deffkoptas. Never played a list quite like it, not hardcore by any means but good fun.
My opponent used some Black Legion formations and a CAD I believe. Bringers of Despair with Mark of Slaanesh and FNP banner with Abaddon and a ML2 Terminator Sorceror with the Last Memory of the Yuranthos relic (making him ML3 and gives an option to overcharge a nice Nova to 18" range) in a Land Raider, a Dark Apostle, two units of Khorne Terminators in Raiders (mix of power fists, chainfists and mauls) and then the Black Legion Warband with some triple melta/one flamer Chosen in Rhinos, two units of Havocs with missile launchers, a Juggerlord with Axe of Blind Fury attached to Khorne bikers with flamer/melta, one minimum unit of Cultists and two Vindicators. This list looks fantastic on the table, every model painted and my opponent is a great guy.
Pre-game I roll Da Jump, Killbolt, Power Vomit and Da Krunch for the Weirdboys, three for the Outflanking/Acute Senses units (all Gorkanauts) and Divide to Conquer with da Finkin Kap. My opponent has Abaddon's preset Warlord Trait and rolls some inconsequential phsychic powers for his Sorceror. My opponent wins the deployment roll, I fail to seize and go second. Deployment type is Dawn of War and the mission is Maelstrom's The Spoils of War.
Turn one; Land Raiders move forward one on each flank and Bringers of Despair in the centre of the board, Vindicators move up to prepare get in range of Battlewagons and Gunwagons turn 2, Juggerlord and bikes move forward using the central Land Raider for some cover, Rhinos tentatively move forward waiting to see where they need to go next turn. Havocs fire off some shots against the SAG Grots and I lose a Deffkopta for first blood. In my turn I move up the Flash Gitz and Mega Nobz together on my right flank aiming for some Chosen sitting on an objective in the back corner, the MA Warboss and Nobz move up the other flank with no cover to utilise against the Havocs and one Vindicator, Tankbustas move forward to target the Vindicators and the Gretchin valiantly run forward towards certain doom and unlikely glory. The SAG wildly misses the Havocs it targets despite Gitfinda and ammo runts, the Tankbustas miss 4 out of 6 of the bomb squigs that are in range, the other unit targets the bikers as do the Lootas. My opponent draws great Objectives and I draw terrible ones, he gets 5 victory points and I get 1 or two.
I'm struggling to differentiate between the later turns now so I'll just give a brief summary of what I can remember. Turn 2 two of my Gorkanauts arrive on my weaker flank and blast away at a unit of Havocs and the side armour of a Vindicator, a Gunwagon blows and the Tankbustas run away due to casualties (they run of the board a turn or two later), a Vindicator explodes the Warboss + Nobz Battlewagon and they fail a morale test but rally the turn after, MA Meks tank some shots for their unit. SAG misses again and Mogrok's Lootas combine their firepower with a unit of Bustas and destroy all the bikers and leave the Lord on one wound. In a brilliant twist of fate a unit of Gretchin smirk wryly and let loose their Grot blastas - killing the Chaos Lord and earning their place in Valhalla. An achievement I'll file away alongside the time they wiped a unit of Bloodletters over two turns even after the Runtherd died. Chaos draw better Objectives again but I decrease the gap slightly
Next turn my last Gorkanaut fails to come in, I lose most of my vehicles, smash a unit of Terminators with the Flash Gitz and Weirdboys, wreck both Vindicators and actually hit some Terminators with the SAG. They survive anyway. The Nobz wipe a unit of Chosen from an Objective I need to claim and the Grots sit there til the end. The Mega Nobz wreck a Land Raider. The Gorkanauts move toward the centre, killing part of a unit of Cultists and a unit of Havocs on the way just to keep busy. From this point on I start generating more useful objectives, the gap becomes smaller but I trail on VP's throughout.
Turn 4 arrives. My opponent shows his hand and vacates my left flank, leaving the Gorkanauts and Nobz with little to do but watch and fire at targets of opportunity, and making a push for the central objectives and my Warlord. Abaddon, the Apostle, the Sorceror and Terminators disembark and split off from one another. I lose the Flash Gitz to the Bringers of Despair, some Gretchin to the Apostle, the smaller unit of Lootas to Abaddon and the Sorceror does terrible things with the super-Nova. The last 'naut comes on my right flank and lays down a deluge of lead against the Bringers of Despair, Mogrok's Lootas follow suit and my opponent rolls poorly for his saves. The last unit of Terminators climb from the wreckage of the Land Raider and fail a short, desperate charge against the Mega Nobz and I return in kind, taking few casualties and winning the combat. In the following turns the Mega Nobz continue to run riot, finishing off the Cultists and then causing a Detonation! on the building the last unit of Havocs have been hiding in.
Next turn we scramble for some objectives, the CSMICs rejoin each other and I shoot them with Lootas some more leaving only the Warmaster alive, the Gorkanaut that arrived late finishes him off in melee.
At the end of the game I lose on VPs 16-15 after one of the most fun games I've played. After Turn 2 I felt like I wouldn't be able to claw back enough points to make it an even fight but I made some devious choices and it ends very close indeed. A big thank you to those who helped with some ideas for the list, it was a riot to use. I apologise for the wall of text!
To change things up I stopped playing my Bully Boyz and two units of TankBustas each with a Painboy in the Blitz Brigade (each armed with 4 Rokkits and a Kannon).
I've lost the last seven (maelstrom) games in a row! The worst lost was against Seer Council on bikes with more bikes and a unit of Warp Spiders. That particular list wouldn't have been able to handle all that AV 14.
Going back to the BB in BB because winning once in a while is still fun even when playing Orks.
xlDuke wrote: Unlucky about the losses, what was the list you were running?
Most of the games were a single unit of max bikes with BikerBoss and Painboy on bike. Usually backed up with TankBustas and MekGunz.
Tau and Necron games were close but Eldar destroyed my 30 biker list. The psyker powers are tough and then the shooting phase and then Eldar jet bike move in the assault phase. 18" range on the Ork bikes is rough. I love the idea of Ork Bikers but -3 Ld is pretty brutal when Fearless is so rare these days.
Last game was a Stompa list against a 30K Space Marine list. He didn't have very many models and his walkers all had invul saves. Even Str 10 AP 1 Ordnance wasn't getting through. The FAQ of not being able to reroll gets hot of 1 is hurting my KMK Mek Gunz more than I (or the laws of probability) would think it would. That game I lost to objectives and it ended early on turn 5. Had it gone on to 6 or 7 I would have won.
I'm not complaining. I'd rather play and lose than not play. It's just an observation that they only reliable way I've found is running two Formations from a supplement is the only semi competetive list the Orks have. What's that say about the codex?
I hate the idea of mono-build but I also want to give my opponent a challenging game. Time to castle-up in some AV 14 again.
Shouldn't an ammo runt work on KMK since it's a full reroll and not PE which the faq disallows?
The problem with going full zhardsnark biker list is armies with good shooting and ignore covers counters it, just like the problem with meganobs is that ap2 heavy armies counters them. It's ok to be a bit spammy in an army list you just put yourself to be countered if you only do certain lists.
I'm about to get a stompa pretty soon. What's your experience with it? The codex variant doesn't look amazing. If it was <600 pts it'd be nice but as is it's way overcosted. What about fw variants?
Currently i'm running trukk bully boyz with vsg, 30 footslogging ork boyz with a biker boss and biker dok and some lootas + lobbas and random stuff here and there like min kommandoes, a few koptas, naked trukk boyz. Will face a tough libconclave list with a centstar soon, so will tell about the results.
xlDuke - great bat rep. Such games are always the best. Odd mediocre ork list vs odd mediocre csm list. Nothing beats casual gaming really. It's always the best of fun.
koooaei wrote: I'm about to get a stompa pretty soon. What's your experience with it? The codex variant doesn't look amazing. If it was <600 pts it'd be nice but as is it's way overcosted. What about fw variants?
Currently i'm running trukk bully boyz with vsg, 30 footslogging ork boyz with a biker boss and biker dok and some lootas + lobbas and random stuff here and there like min kommandoes, a few koptas, naked trukk boyz. Will face a tough libconclave list with a centstar soon, so will tell about the results.
xlDuke - great bat rep. Such games are always the best. Odd mediocre ork list vs odd mediocre csm list. Nothing beats casual gaming really. It's always the best of fun.
I haven't played it but the klaw stompa is brutal with its 13 str d atks on the charge and it's large charge range.
Buzzgrob big Mek stompa is decent if using the ITC/6th Ed PDF rules.
The basic stompa is ok if you support it with MFF bigmek and multiple repair rolls via meks it's just allot of points.
As with most things, I recommend you magnetize your Stompa so that you can switch between the variants.
No matter what Stompa style you choose, one often overlooked benefit is the fearless bubble it projects. It makes Mek Guns better. It makes Walking boyz better. It makes Bikes better. It honestly makes everything better to have a fearless bubble on the table.
It can also be tempting to load up the Stompa with repair rolls. I think it is easy to overdue it. When the Stompa starts taking wounds it takes them pretty quickly. Most games the points spent on repair rolls are wasted because the Stompa takes little to no damage. In the games where the Stompa takes damage it is rare for a few hull points per turn to make the difference.
gungo wrote: I haven't played it but the klaw stompa is brutal with its 13 str d atks on the charge and it's large charge range.
If you look at the rules, the Kustom Stompa only gets 7 S D attacks (8 on the charge). Here are the rules:
Spoiler:
Still that is more than enough.
The Klawfrenzy rule isn't really compatible with 7th edition:
Spoiler:
It rerolls "to Hit" with its Stompa attacks. We don't really know what that means anymore, so you are going have to house-rule it. I suggest you just ignore that bullet point.
gungo wrote: Buzzgrob big Mek stompa is decent if using the ITC/6th Ed PDF rules.
I play Buzzgob's Stompa quite a bit. It gives a dimension to Orks that they wouldn't otherwise have. You can reserve most of your army, and just deploy the Big Mek Stompa which will make your opponent waste a round shooting usually. It also gives you a Ton of Strength 10 AP:1 in the form of the 2 7 inch blasts which I highly recommend. It has 10 firepoints which are great for Lootas or Flashgitz or Tankbustas. You can put your warlord inside which gives Orks a durable warlord which is super good in ITC missions where every mission give a bonus point for destroying the enemy warlord. I almost always run a Big Mek with KFF and Da Finkin Kap inside. You can put an Objective secured unit of Gretchin inside. It can Stomp which is super good against the unkillable psychic deathstars all over the place these days (For instance seer council).
It also gets D6 power fields which are like void shields that don't regenerate, and that makes it somewhat more durable than other stompa variants.
The biggest thing to remember about Buzzgob's stompa is that it works more as a support unit. It will very, very rarely put out as much damage as a Gatling Cannon Imperial Knight, but it works really good to help you win games. Just watch out for tournaments that give opponents victory points for taking off hull points of super heavies. Midwest Conquest caught me off guard with that. I build an army around winning the secondary which I did in every single mission, but because every 3 hull points done to my Stompa gave the opponent a bonus point on the secondary I was always starting about 3-4 points down (Max 8-12 points per game), and couldn't come back from that in about 1/2 of the games.
It sucks when you show up at an event to find out they've nerfed your list so hard like that.
gungo wrote: The basic stompa is ok if you support it with MFF bigmek and multiple repair rolls via meks it's just allot of points.
The Basic Stompa is badly overcosted, but it does put out more damage than Buzzgob's version. Lots more, and can go Toe-to-Toe vs Imperial Knights much better though it is still terrifying. It doesn't do as well as a support unit, but it does do better at damage dealing. I wouldn't put a MFF inside because the only way to take an MFF these days is with an Orkurion or a Dread Mob Formation, and neither of those are very versatile, but a KFF is definitely worth it.
I'm going to experiment with a Chaos Knight in place of the Stompa at some point. I think it is a bit more balanced, though it doesn't help hide your Warlord for ITC missions.
First you can take any formstion from waaagh ghazkull and include orkiimedes kustom gubbons secondly you can take a CAD as part of waaagh ghazkull and use BOTH sets of relics since ghazskull now allows both. A CAD is not codex specific. A similar example was actually in the GWfaqs.
Secondly unless buzzgrob is taken in a CaD he must be a warlord in a deff dread army. He's already one of your HQ and LoW choice and doesn't necessarily die if the stompa is destroyed. The only reason why I can see you taking a different warlord is its a warboss for waaagh or you want a different warlord trait (like zhardsnark for bike troops) then obj secured deff dreads and stompa.
To be honest, custom stompa seems kinda cheezy as you can have a pair of massive sD blasts, a massive blast lobba and a hellstorm s6 ap3 flamer in under 600 pts. Which is so much better than a codex stompa and a lot cheaper.
I think the Kustom Stompa is amazing! Ever since I got my IA:8 I've stop using the codex version. Heck you can build the codex version for less points in the kustom stompa maker.
gungo wrote: First you can take any formstion from waaagh ghazkull and include orkiimedes kustom gubbons secondly you can take a CAD as part of waaagh ghazkull and use BOTH sets of relics since ghazskull now allows both. A CAD is not codex specific. A similar example was actually in the GWfaqs.
You can definitely take Ghaz relics with fomrations from the Ghaz book. That is why I listed all of the formations from that book that included a Big Mek (The Orkurion, and the Dread Mob).
I don't see any rules basis that would allow you to take a CAD of WAAAGH Ghazgul. Waaagh Ghazgul is the same faction as Codex Orks. It has no dataslates except for the formations, so there are no units in Waaagh Ghazgul to take as part of a CAD if it wasn't the same faction as Codex:Orks. The rules on the Ghaz relics don't mention a CAD as a way for taking them, so I'm not seeing where you are coming from except for wishes GW didn't mistreat Orks so badly.
I have no idea which FAQ item you are referring to, but I certainly haven't seen one that would be sufficient to make a RAI argument for this. I mean if you want to houserule it with your buddies, or run an unbound army, that is fine. I encourage you to play the way you want to play. But lots of people read this thread, and I don't want them showing up to events with MFF's and getting disqualified for it.
gungo wrote: Secondly unless buzzgrob is taken in a CaD he must be a warlord in a deff dread army. He's already one of your HQ and LoW choice and doesn't necessarily die if the stompa is destroyed. The only reason why I can see you taking a different warlord is its a warboss for waaagh or you want a different warlord trait (like zhardsnark for bike troops) then obj secured deff dreads and stompa.
A few things here. I recommend you always take Buzzgob as part of a Ork CAD, and make someone else the warlord. His warlord trait isn't worth it, and his wargear is fixed. Also, if taken in that way with his stompa he takes up a Lord of War Slot instead of an HQ slot.
He does die if the Stompa is destroyed. The only situation that would allow him to get out is if the Stompa leaves a wreck which it never does. I asked Forgeworld about this, and they said the rules were written for 5th edition, and we were lucky they even worked in 7th. They told me to expect an update in a couple months. I think that was back in 2014.
I don't see a reason you'd want Buzzgob as your warlord unless you want to take him as part of a Dread Mob army. Even then it seems iffy. A normal Big Mek works much better as a warlord for a number of reasons. You get a Finkin Kap for an extra warlord trait. You can disembark the Stompa if you think it is about to die. If it does die there is a chance you can get out. A Warboss or Zhardsnark both work as warlords in a Buzzgob army as well for the reason's you've specified. My experience is that you need a KFF, and there are so many points in that stompa you don't want to spend the points on other HQ's when possible.
Played a game today with bully boyz , 30 footslogging boyz with biker boss, biker dok, vsg and chaff. Faced a mostly droppod army with grav cents, calgar, libconclave - all maces, honor guards - all maces, 2 venerable dreads and chaff. Long story short, bully boyz killed calgar with cents, 30 boyz died in 2 сс phases to invisible honor guards - didn't manage to kill even one due to 2+ re-rollable (new marine power) and boss missed everything even with re-rolls but than bully boyz managed to wittle them down across a few turns loosing most of the boyz in the process. Lootas, trukks, tankbustas and regular boyz stopped dreads. Orks dominated maelstorm.
Well, sm had a non-optimised list and i fielded the best i could think of with bully boyz orks. Though, i liked the all-mace honor guard squad. If i wasn't lucky enough to kill a banner dude, he might have overpowered bully boyz but lobbas had a good scatter early on. He also made a mistake by dropping calgar+cents too close and leaving them without invis as he thought i'd eath his libconclave bait and that he'd be able to drop vsg and than stop 1-2 bully boy squads but it didn't happen.
gungo wrote: First you can take any formstion from waaagh ghazkull and include orkiimedes kustom gubbons secondly you can take a CAD as part of waaagh ghazkull and use BOTH sets of relics since ghazskull now allows both. A CAD is not codex specific. A similar example was actually in the GWfaqs.
You can definitely take Ghaz relics with fomrations from the Ghaz book. That is why I listed all of the formations from that book that included a Big Mek (The Orkurion, and the Dread Mob).
I don't see any rules basis that would allow you to take a CAD of WAAAGH Ghazgul. Waaagh Ghazgul is the same faction as Codex Orks. It has no dataslates except for the formations, so there are no units in Waaagh Ghazgul to take as part of a CAD if it wasn't the same faction as Codex:Orks. The rules on the Ghaz relics don't mention a CAD as a way for taking them, so I'm not seeing where you are coming from except for wishes GW didn't mistreat Orks so badly.
I have no idea which FAQ item you are referring to, but I certainly haven't seen one that would be sufficient to make a RAI argument for this. I mean if you want to houserule it with your buddies, or run an unbound army, that is fine. I encourage you to play the way you want to play. But lots of people read this thread, and I don't want them showing up to events with MFF's and getting disqualified for it.
gungo wrote: Secondly unless buzzgrob is taken in a CaD he must be a warlord in a deff dread army. He's already one of your HQ and LoW choice and doesn't necessarily die if the stompa is destroyed. The only reason why I can see you taking a different warlord is its a warboss for waaagh or you want a different warlord trait (like zhardsnark for bike troops) then obj secured deff dreads and stompa.
A few things here. I recommend you always take Buzzgob as part of a Ork CAD, and make someone else the warlord. His warlord trait isn't worth it, and his wargear is fixed. Also, if taken in that way with his stompa he takes up a Lord of War Slot instead of an HQ slot.
He does die if the Stompa is destroyed. The only situation that would allow him to get out is if the Stompa leaves a wreck which it never does. I asked Forgeworld about this, and they said the rules were written for 5th edition, and we were lucky they even worked in 7th. They told me to expect an update in a couple months. I think that was back in 2014.
I don't see a reason you'd want Buzzgob as your warlord unless you want to take him as part of a Dread Mob army. Even then it seems iffy. A normal Big Mek works much better as a warlord for a number of reasons. You get a Finkin Kap for an extra warlord trait. You can disembark the Stompa if you think it is about to die. If it does die there is a chance you can get out. A Warboss or Zhardsnark both work as warlords in a Buzzgob army as well for the reason's you've specified. My experience is that you need a KFF, and there are so many points in that stompa you don't want to spend the points on other HQ's when possible.
You are correct
The faq I was mentioning is just space marine shenanigans allowing thier formstions to choose different relic lists based on different chapter relics or supplement relics. The waagh book is directly stated as limited to the book formations only.
Regarding buzzgrob he takes up both an hq and low slot according to many organized play rules. It also makes sense since in 5th Ed your warlord had to be an hq. It makes no sense to have a low warlord in 5th.
gungo wrote: Regarding buzzgrob he takes up both an hq and low slot according to many organized play rules. It also makes sense since in 5th Ed your warlord had to be an hq. It makes no sense to have a low warlord in 5th.
I've always played him RAW where he Takes up a LOW choice if you take the Stompa. From the Dread Mob Pdf:
"... Buzzgob may be exchanged for a Big Mek Stompa for +300 points. Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa uses all of the rules for a Big Mek Stompa and may select any of the options available to one for the same points cost. When this option is selected, Buzzgob counts as a Lord of War choice and an army that includes him may not select another Lord of War choice."
I'm not really aware of the 5th edition rules for warlord selection, though.
-------------------------
Next week I'm heading to an itty bitty GT with my Tourney list. I've decided to run a single CAD Ork army.
Spoiler:
Mek
Big Mek (Da Finkin Kap, KFF)
5 Tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
11 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Lootas <- in the Stompa
5 Lootas <- in the Stompa
5 Lobbas with Ammo Runts
Buzzgob's Stompa (2 Deff Kannons)
Since Victory points (aka old school Kill point differential) are a significant part of every single mission I trimmed 7 kill points out of my typical list. I also added in a few more powerclaws, and some extra anti-air, because they are going hog wild with the new GWFAQ's all the way up to making drop pod doors part of the hull, so I anticipate at least one game where someone tries to movement block me in my deployment zone, and I have to kill some pods before I can get to midfield. Also could be lots of the new fliers because of DFtS being included, though we aren't using the silly dogfight phase.
I've been playtesting the missions they are kinda feast or famine. I'm expecting to basically autowin 1-2, and autolose 1-2 based on matchup. So its probably just 1-2 games that are going to be close at all. But as of right now, it looks like I'm already the top (only) Ork Player, so my goal will be "Top Xenos". Without the Void Shield, I've found my list is super killy, but also tends to get beat up pretty bad. In my test games I've been left with the Stompa its contents, and the lootas in 5 out of 6 games, but in all 6 games I've won Kill point differential. It's kinda a weird list to run.
On a different note I wonder if ork flyers are a thing, with the 3++ KFF formation with a wazbom blastajet. With blitza-bommaz you can cause a lot of pain in some of the flight patterns. But it's expensive and is deadweight against some armies.
On a different note I wonder if ork flyers are a thing, with the 3++ KFF formation with a wazbom blastajet. With blitza-bommaz you can cause a lot of pain in some of the flight patterns. But it's expensive and is deadweight against some armies.
The biggest problem is Ork Fliers can't score. So if you are playing an objectives based game that is a big problem. If the Formation gave them hover mode, it would be infinitely more attractive than a 3++ invul.
The Orruk Start Collecting box is coming out soon:
Spoiler:
I want that weirdboy. The 'Ard boyz would look nice too if I gave them sluggas, but I can't figure out what to do with the Gore Gruntas. Anyone got conversion ideas that would make this kit make sense?
That's actually not the weirdnob, it's the warchanter. But in any case the gore gruntas can easily be count as warbikers, you can mount any spare big shoota bits onto their sides to represent dakkaguns and 40k-ify it with ammo feed belts and maybe some mechanical bits if you want to make them cyboars. It goes even better thematically if you want to paint them as snakebites.
Given their bigger size, you can make them Nob Bikers too, their gore choppas already look like Big Choppas anyhow.
Saythings wrote: Excuse the noob questions that I'm about to put forth:
What Imperial Armour book has the Kustom Stompa rules in it? The IA:8? Is that the same book that has the Buzzgob Mek Stompa as well?
Is there a limit to how many weapons you can put on the Kustom Stompa?
Finally, does the 12" fearless bubble from a stompa come with every stompa variant or specific ones?
The Kustom Stompa is indeed from IA8, and there are a LOT of weapons you can stack on top of a stompa but you are limited based on what they offer you, so you can only choose 2 large arm weapons, a couple of primary belly/hull weapons, a head-mounted weapon, some extra add-on stuff like the deff arsenal and otherwise a smattering of other smaller weapons (rokkits, big shootas, skorchas) bolted on based on how much leftover points you have.
Also, pretty sure the Effigy rule you're speaking about (the fearless bubble) applies to all types of stompas though the codex version for some reason is only 6" rather than 12".
gameandwatch wrote: Ive been running a kustom stompa in my ork list and it is BONKERS fun
It certainly levels the playing field against armies that typically hard-counter us like Tau.
In other news, our FAQ has been released. Unsurprisingly, it's a letdown. No changes to CB or bonuses for going past a 6 for Mob Rule results. Only okay thing is that they fixed the Tankbusta Nob not having a melee weapon to exchange for a PK and the clarification of being allowed to use the Green Tide formation and previous WG! Detachment.
Sad day for Orks. GWFAQ dropped. The things that looked like obvious typos (+2 to mob rule in Ghaz formations, Unit type of Gorkanaught) weren't. No Fixes for Cybork or Gitfindas. Ork Dreads aren't worth upgrading like Space Marine Dreads.
Overall, Orks got nothing from the FAQ but confirmation that they suck as a codex, and clarification on the degree of suckatude, and their status as a 2nd Class Codex.
gameandwatch wrote: Ive been running a kustom stompa in my ork list and it is BONKERS fun
It certainly levels the playing field against armies that typically hard-counter us like Tau.
In other news, our FAQ has been released. Unsurprisingly, it's a letdown. No changes to CB or bonuses for going past a 6 for Mob Rule results. Only okay thing is that they fixed the Tankbusta Nob not having a melee weapon to exchange for a PK and the clarification of being allowed to use the Green Tide formation and previous WG! Detachment.
Well, the FAQ part does what it's supposed to do - it answers questions about the rules. The errata added clarifications and amendmends to the wordings. None of that would have been able to improve the codex. Orks can only be fixed by a new codex.
hordrak wrote: Well, the FAQ part does what it's supposed to do - it answers questions about the rules. The errata added clarifications and amendmends to the wordings. None of that would have been able to improve the codex. Orks can only be fixed by a new codex.
Do you really think that the penalty to mob rule was intentional in the Ghaz supplement? They are more disciplined, therefore they run away more often? It was an obvious typo that they doubled down on instead of fixing.
Orks are the only codex that has formations that taking exactly the same units from a CAD is better in most situations than taking the formation. I expected them to fix that by fixing the typo.
So yeah, it is an FAQ. But an FAQ that leaves Orks in a worse state than before it found it, because at least before the clarification there was a hope that typo would someday be fixed.
hordrak wrote: Well, the FAQ part does what it's supposed to do - it answers questions about the rules. The errata added clarifications and amendmends to the wordings. None of that would have been able to improve the codex. Orks can only be fixed by a new codex.
Do you really think that the penalty to mob rule was intentional in the Ghaz supplement? They are more disciplined, therefore they run away more often? It was an obvious typo that they doubled down on instead of fixing.
Orks are the only codex that has formations that taking exactly the same units from a CAD is better in most situations than taking the formation. I expected them to fix that by fixing the typo.
So yeah, it is an FAQ. But an FAQ that leaves Orks in a worse state than before it found it, because at least before the clarification there was a hope that typo would someday be fixed.
Technically most of the waaagh ghazskull formstions and/or units are either fearless or 20+ model units making it appear very intentional that those units benefit from its mob rules version. It also further encourages 10+ model units by repeating the same HoW benefit on multiple detachments. Ya the +2 mob rule is very obviously intended to encourage players to make large boy squads.
#1 Orks vehicles are silly/good against super heavy walkers. Stay!
#2 I just exchanged my warbikes, meganobz, stormboyz, gorkanaut and stompa for an Imperial Guard army to work with my marines. No more sitting at the bottom of the list.
#3 Yet I want to bring my boyz to the next event - we're required to bring soft lists and there is a preset FOC, because orks are just cooler. Looking at my Good Bye Greens post somewhere complete else I can see I vowed to make a fun list with nobz, flash gitz and kanz, and before that I looked into boyz in all shapes - big mob, ardmob, shoota boyz, trukk boyz. So that is what I will bring.
tag8833 wrote: Sad day for Orks. GWFAQ dropped. The things that looked like obvious typos (+2 to mob rule in Ghaz formations, Unit type of Gorkanaught) weren't. No Fixes for Cybork or Gitfindas. Ork Dreads aren't worth upgrading like Space Marine Dreads.
Overall, Orks got nothing from the FAQ but confirmation that they suck as a codex, and clarification on the degree of suckatude, and their status as a 2nd Class Codex.
To be fair, the grabbin' klaw stops Imperial Knights from charging so that's good. GreenTide is also allowed if you have the rules.
On the other hand (and the rest of body), the FAQ can be summed up in 'No'.
I had already decided on quitting, but it's nice to get justification in my reason why.
Spoiler:
Saw this on the Facebook comments (The rage is hard on this particular FAQ), couldn't help but laugh.
KFF affects friendlies and enemies alike!
Tankbusta nob errata was good so they can now take a PK!
other than that its mostly business as usual. Basically as Frozocrone said except mine are staying on the shelf rather than in the trash because one day GW Gork and Mork might get their collective acts together.
Nithaniel wrote: KFF affects friendlies and enemies alike!
Tankbusta nob errata was good so they can now take a PK!
other than that its mostly business as usual. Basically as Frozocrone said except mine are staying on the shelf rather than in the trash because one day GW Gork and Mork might get their collective acts together.
I think that is the way most ork players will behave. More money to work on my HH Thousand Sons...
I still don't understand why people thought it was a typo. So many people wanted it to be a -2 which would be awful because a 1 is running away unless you're in combat. At least with this if you have a mob and 10+ guys then you wont run no matter what. Plus its the Goff book so you should be rewarded for taking tons of boys and you are. It isn't effective right now but you are rewarded for playing a Goff themed list in the Goff book.
Well I posted my suggestions on the FAQ. Basically nothing has change. KFF is a little annoying. Deffkoptas bombing run is kind of dumb now. Its been years since I took bombs on them. Green tide being back is awesome. A lot of questions felt like some people don't read the codex. Of course the FNP does not stack. That is an IF special rule. Why even ask the question? Gork/Morkanauts don't have fire points. I think the entire first page of questions where BS ones they thought up just get an extra page number. I think there were other things that could have been addressed.
cranect wrote: I still don't understand why people thought it was a typo. So many people wanted it to be a -2 which would be awful because a 1 is running away unless you're in combat. At least with this if you have a mob and 10+ guys then you wont run no matter what. Plus its the Goff book so you should be rewarded for taking tons of boys and you are. It isn't effective right now but you are rewarded for playing a Goff themed list in the Goff book.
It isn't really playable either. Does anyone want to field 5 squads of 20+ Orks? How do you get your nobz above 10?
Orks take leadership primarily from 2 things. Exploding trukks, and losing close combat. Yes, we take a few leadership test from shooting, but that is by far the minority compared to the other 2. Additionally, leadership tests from shooting are easier to pass because they are unmodified.
If you are riding in a trukk and it dies, very good chances the explosion kills enough to drop you below 10. With +2 that means you have a 1/6 shot of making mob rule. With -2 that means a 2/6 shot. not great, but twice as good.
If you lose combat. With 10 or more models you pass on all checks whether it is +2 or -2. If you have fewer than 10 models and a character with +2 you pass on 1/6 times. With -2 you pass on 5/6 times. Yes, amazing, but -2 makes you more disciplined and less likely to run away from CC. 5 times less likely. If you have fewer than 10 models and no character with +2 you can never, ever pass. With -2 you pass on 3/6 times. It is infinitely better if you get your character challenged out, and because of the FOC limitation on the Great Waaaghband, that is going to happen most of the time, because you can't get meks to eat challenges.
+2 makes Orks much, much, much more likely to fail leadership where it matters. In close Combat. -2 Makes Orks more likely to stick in Close combat. What makes sense about +2 again? If you have 10 or more models? How often do you still have 10 or more models after losing combat?
Now if you were to swap the 2-3 results with the 4-6 results, the Ghaz +2 modifier would make sense. They actually are more disciplined, and less likely to run from CC or shooting.
The problem with the idea that "Goff's are supposed to have big units" is that given time, big units become small units, and they force you to take so many unit that it is logistically unfeasible to run big ones. Also, maneuvering 5 squads of 20+ around the table is a nightmare. You are constantly getting in your own way. If they wanted you to take big squads they would have set the composition to 2 units of boyz rather than 5. It is playable to run 2 big squads of boyz.
Again nearly every unit of boyz in ghaz supplement is either fearless, 20+ models, or has a detschment bonus that only works if your 10+ models anyway. The few nob unit choices are also immune to the breakin heads result since they are characters making the detriment on increased breakin heads in the ghaz supplment meaningless.
And if your not getting shot to death in the shooting phase then you must not be playing any tau, eldar, space marine, or necron armies that obliterate Ork Squads with thier insane shooting potential.
It's obviously intended to make large blobs 10+ Boyz move, run, charge; not run speed freak style trukk boy spam. That may be how you play but that's not the design for this supplment. This is why the detschment bonus is for hammer of wrath on 10+ boys squads. You can complain about moving 3 squads of 20+ boyz or greentide style 100 boyz or waagh band style 6 units of 10+ boyz that gain HoW when over 10 models but that is exactly what this supplement expects you to play.
I would love a speed freak supplement myself. Lord knows we need formations for trukk boyz, warbikers, deffkoptas, warbuggies/wartrakks/skorchas considering we have none for them and they are some of our best units.
Personally I can finish a 200-250 model game in 3ish hours with 5 turns. I do like to run upwards of 100 boys on the table so the +2 to the mob rule is crucial for me. I lose some combats but when 30 boys hit normally they don't kill over 20 of them. +2 is awful for speed freaks but for a Goff horde style list it is one of the best things to happen for the list. If it were a -2 my mobs would never make it across the table. As is about 100 boys normally make it across into combat even against tau. Against the eldar lists people run here even more make it since they don't have the same number of shots as the tau and they can't run if there is no space for them. Also in big mobs if you do it right your klaw gets at least one turn of attacks because he can't accept any challenges. Also to answer your question I normally have more than 10 left after a combat unless they only started with 15 or so. And because I normally have more than 10 and a Nob I always pass mob rule. Sure I take a few extra hits and maybe a few wounds but that's better than them all running because 6 got shot to death.
Also just because speed freaks are what is considered the most effective and such doesn't mean its the only way to play. While you hate moving mobs of boys I don't like trucks or bikes. The only bikes I enjoy are the proxied snakebite bikes using cyboars. Even then there are still boys mobs and squiggoths.
gungo wrote: The few nob unit choices are also immune to the breakin heads result since they are characters making the detriment on increased breakin heads in the ghaz supplment meaningless.
What? No part of that is true. A unit of Nobs has 1 character. Having characters only matters on a 1 vs in the normal codex (2 & 3) so it is 1/2 as good from that angle and worse if you consider that a 1 will save you often when not suffering the Mob rule penalty.
gungo wrote: And if your not getting shot to death in the shooting phase then you must not be playing any tau, eldar, space marine, or necron armies that obliterate Ork Squads with thier insane shooting potential.
Yes. Shot to Death. Not shot to lose 5 models but still have more than 10 so mob rule can help. One unit of 4 Scat Bikes will drop a squad of 20 Ork Boyz below 10.
gungo wrote: IYou can complain about moving 3 squads of 20+ boyz or greentide style 100 boyz or waagh band style 6 units of 10+ boyz that gain HoW when over 10 models but that is exactly what this supplement expects you to play.
I don't think it does. If it expected me to play that way the core choices wouldn't involve so many units of boyz. By forcing you to take 6 units of boyz it is kinda forcing you to play speed freaks or with lots of min squads. You can't play with 6 big units of boyz the game doesn't work on a 6 x 4 table with that sort of army, especially when every other army is faster.
Honestly, I wish we had a core formation for running multiple large units of boyz. This is what it would look like.
Spoiler:
Warboss
Painboy Painboy Painboy
Ork Boyz Ork Boyz Ork Boyz
Restrictions: Units of Ork Boyz must number 20 or more and include a nob with a boss pole.
Special Rules: Scout, Move Through Cover, Send in Gitsmack: As long as the Nob Lives, he can choose to send a boy into a challenge instead of accepting it myself, Endless Waaaagh!: If you choose the warboss from this formation as your warlord, you can declare a Waaaagh every turn.
The guy who posted above you proved you are not only full of it but completely wrong. The fact greentide was so competitive in organized play which runs at 2-3hour rounds also proves your full of crap claiming you can't fit that many boyz on a 6x4 table.
In fact your math is completely off on the scat bikes as well.
And your opinion that it is meant to be played as speed freak trukk spam list is head scratchingly dumb. The entire point of the ghaz supplement is endless waaagh that allows you to move, run and charge ...... Which you can't do in trukks
And Hammer of wrath with 10+ model count units which is less effective with min size squads.
In fact there is NOTHING in the ghaz supplement that even suggests or promotes min size squads, from the mob rule change to Any of the detschment benefits.
We all realize you think your opinion is somehow valid. You are just flat out wrong and keep doubling down on your bad opinion without anything that remotely makes sense backing it up.
To be fair at an 1850 points level trukk boys are about all you can fit points wise to be effective. You really can't even get 90 boys effectively in 6 squads. If you go up to even 2500ish then you're good but 1850 no. I used to run them in the great waaagh detachment though so that's where the experience comes from. That and the tide but I never brought more than 100 in that for some reason. There are exceptions where the games will take a while as well. If they get the pyromancy power that forces dangerous terrain then the turn just about doubles in length right there. Also against IG if they reposition the blobs it takes a lot longer for the game as well. If you don't end up with two horde armies though you can finish in 2-3 hours fairly easily assuming both people know their armies.
The ghaz nor any GW book has absolutely no restriction or intention of fielding 1850 pts as a standard list. (It's likely 2000 if anything as that tends to be what they use to showcase in thier battlereps) however tags rant was less about time and more about how you can't fit 6 big units of boys on a 6x4 table which is just insanely dumb comment considering you already said you played with 250 models and armies like the green tide regularly are played with well over 100 models on the same table.
However I actually play the orkurion at 1850 NOT in trukks but use the waaagh band as fearless foot blobs that move, run and charge each turn. However ghaz makes the entire army fearless so mob rule doesn't even matter.
Also the greentide is minimum 101 models, 102 with a painboy.
cranect wrote: Personally I can finish a 200-250 model game in 3ish hours with 5 turns.
I'm not nearly that quick. I try to improve but i spend a lot of the time on the movement phase - in fact, most of the time. In our meta, if you place a few boyz out of 30 wrong, you emidiately get bottleneck charged and slaughtered without retaliation. It's not a rare thing to loose >20 boyz in a single cc phase against melee deathstars before ini2, so you deal 0 retaliation damage at all and they don't even need invis if they bottleneck you. They usually still have invis just in case...
Anyway, +2 to mob rule doesn't do anything meaningful to large squads - it's an improvement from 1/36 (with bp) to run away from shooting to 0. And you pay with 3+d3 hits on mob rule and warlord dead-in-challenge. On the other hand, when you eventually get dropped below 10, you can only stick in melee on a lucky 1 - which is around 30% with bp while with a regular mob rule you do it 75% of the time. And you got a chance to not take further damage if you roll a one. Which is exactly 25% to not loose anything and stick in melee. AND you drop below 10 models faster cause you take more damage on mob rule. And you are more vulnerable to it in melee cause of ld modifiers where ghaz mob rule is way worse than a regular mob rule. That's why people call ghaz mob rule a nerf. Cause it kinda is.
gungo wrote: The ghaz nor any GW book has absolutely no restriction or intention of fielding 1850 pts as a standard list. (It's likely 2000 if anything as that tends to be what they use to showcase in thier battlereps) however tags rant was less about time and more about how you can't fit 6 big units of boys on a 6x4 table which is just insanely dumb comment considering you already said you played with 250 models and armies like the green tide regularly are played with well over 100 models on the same table.
However I actually play the orkurion at 1850 NOT in trukks but use the waaagh band as fearless foot blobs that move, run and charge each turn. However ghaz makes the entire army fearless so mob rule doesn't even matter.
Also the greentide is minimum 101 models, 102 with a painboy.
Yes I did mean just 100 boys. Also may I inquire as to what you use in the list? I couldn't figure out a good one with the council included for footslogging. Just couldn't find a way to have enough boys to actually make it to the shooting heavy armies which are the majority here.
Yet again I have to disagree about it being useless for large mobs. It garuntees you wont be running until you go below 10. And while some things may somehow do over 20 wounds in one round its probably because they are much more expensive points wise so it isn't really surprising. Although I have never had that many wounds done to me in combat in sure something like the wulfen can do it easily.
As long as your Nob is alive the base Mob Rule with a large boy squad is going to pass the mob rule part for failed pinning and morale from shooting 35/36 times until you drop below 10 then its something like 55% of the time. In close combat you pass 100% of the time until your below half which then puts it at 75% I think. With +2 on the table you can't fail until you drop below 10 which then means you pass 30% of the time. Only time I see the Ghazz formation being better is if your Nob gets killed when you have 10+ models left but when you have a character and a few models left (this situation happens a lot) you are FAR less likely to pass mob rule, especially when locked in CC.
I know GW writers seem to like forging that narrative and don't look at the math as much but the +2 to the table is both counter intuitive to being more disciplined and is a very mathy solution to something that is suppose to be fluffy. BTW if it was the character smacking the boyz about on a 5+ result and the 10+ models squabble was 2-4 then that would make more sense. Even better if the rule was that having a character in the unit gave +2 to the result and 5+ was "busting skulls" then it would be even more fluffy and actually really good. Sadly the type of gak people on the internet can whip up in 5 minutes is often times better than what their paid professionals can come up with.
gungo wrote: The ghaz nor any GW book has absolutely no restriction or intention of fielding 1850 pts as a standard list. (It's likely 2000 if anything as that tends to be what they use to showcase in thier battlereps) however tags rant was less about time and more about how you can't fit 6 big units of boys on a 6x4 table which is just insanely dumb comment considering you already said you played with 250 models and armies like the green tide regularly are played with well over 100 models on the same table.
However I actually play the orkurion at 1850 NOT in trukks but use the waaagh band as fearless foot blobs that move, run and charge each turn. However ghaz makes the entire army fearless so mob rule doesn't even matter.
Also the greentide is minimum 101 models, 102 with a painboy.
#1 Cool it.
#2 prior to the ITC change tot he Big Mek Stompa I was playing Green Tide in my tourney army. I've logged more than 50 games with a Green tide. Maybe 100. That list had 150+ models and I ran it regularly in 2.5 hour tournaments.
I also play lots of games with units of 20 boyz. I run 4 squads of 20 shoota Boyz in one of the armies I use regularly in campaign play. Those squads get into eachother's way all the time. It is a great army for a campaign, because it is hard to blow someone off the table with it.
I have run 200 boyz in lists. I don't get games done in 3 hours when I do, but I've done it quite a number of times both in and out of a Decurion. You can easy fit 250 models on a table. But you aren't making effective use of that table when you do so. The green tide has advantages that multiple squads don't because it can't get in its own way, and a savvy player will make sure that happens. If you and I were in the same area, I'd offer to meet up for a game to show you. It is a gimmick that can work if opponents don't know how to handle it. If it is fearless, it can work regardless. The Great WAAAGH used to help you run multiple large squads of boyz because you could deep strike some, but that was also a problem, because deep striking large squads is problematic. I remember losing 16 boyz to a Blood Angel dread with double flamer once, and failing leadership and running.
If I wanted to spam the table with boyz, and win games, I would use a CAD or an Ork Horde detachment. I wouldn't use an Orcurion (unless I'm running Council of the Waagh which doesn't fit with boyz because they get in eachother's way). I went to an RTT a while back and Ran 150 boyz in an army. It was a fun gimmick. It worked until I ran into Tau, and they tabled me. There was a Skathach Wraithknight in the field that could have tabled me all by itself, because they had ruled it can't be locked in CC.
I see that you and I play in very different ways, and I respect the way you play. If you find that in your meta it is fun and effective to use massive squads of boyz in the Orkurion, then I encourage you to do so. I find that in my meta it isn't very effective or fun. If you think the Orcurion is good as it is, and shouldn't be changed in any way, then you are in luck. It ain't changing. That makes me Sad, because I'd like to use it more often.
Rather than name calling, perhaps we could share a few lists and experiences of how they worked or didn't work with the Orkurion. I'll post something up about some of my recent experiences.
gungo wrote: The ghaz nor any GW book has absolutely no restriction or intention of fielding 1850 pts as a standard list. (It's likely 2000 if anything as that tends to be what they use to showcase in thier battlereps) however tags rant was less about time and more about how you can't fit 6 big units of boys on a 6x4 table which is just insanely dumb comment considering you already said you played with 250 models and armies like the green tide regularly are played with well over 100 models on the same table.
However I actually play the orkurion at 1850 NOT in trukks but use the waaagh band as fearless foot blobs that move, run and charge each turn. However ghaz makes the entire army fearless so mob rule doesn't even matter.
Also the greentide is minimum 101 models, 102 with a painboy.
#1 Cool it.
#2 prior to the ITC change tot he Big Mek Stompa I was playing Green Tide in my tourney army. I've logged more than 50 games with a Green tide. Maybe 100. That list had 150+ models and I ran it regularly in 2.5 hour tournaments.
I also play lots of games with units of 20 boyz. I run 4 squads of 20 shoota Boyz in one of the armies I use regularly in campaign play. Those squads get into eachother's way all the time. It is a great army for a campaign, because it is hard to blow someone off the table with it.
I have run 200 boyz in lists. I don't get games done in 3 hours when I do, but I've done it quite a number of times both in and out of a Decurion. You can easy fit 250 models on a table. But you aren't making effective use of that table when you do so. The green tide has advantages that multiple squads don't because it can't get in its own way, and a savvy player will make sure that happens. If you and I were in the same area, I'd offer to meet up for a game to show you. It is a gimmick that can work if opponents don't know how to handle it. If it is fearless, it can work regardless. The Great WAAAGH used to help you run multiple large squads of boyz because you could deep strike some, but that was also a problem, because deep striking large squads is problematic. I remember losing 16 boyz to a Blood Angel dread with double flamer once, and failing leadership and running.
If I wanted to spam the table with boyz, and win games, I would use a CAD or an Ork Horde detachment. I wouldn't use an Orcurion (unless I'm running Council of the Waagh which doesn't fit with boyz because they get in eachother's way). I went to an RTT a while back and Ran 150 boyz in an army. It was a fun gimmick. It worked until I ran into Tau, and they tabled me. There was a Skathach Wraithknight in the field that could have tabled me all by itself, because they had ruled it can't be locked in CC.
I see that you and I play in very different ways, and I respect the way you play. If you find that in your meta it is fun and effective to use massive squads of boyz in the Orkurion, then I encourage you to do so. I find that in my meta it isn't very effective or fun. If you think the Orcurion is good as it is, and shouldn't be changed in any way, then you are in luck. It ain't changing. That makes me Sad, because I'd like to use it more often.
Rather than name calling, perhaps we could share a few lists and experiences of how they worked or didn't work with the Orkurion. I'll post something up about some of my recent experiences.
Personally regardless I'd like to hear how its run for you. I have had moderate success with the two times I've run it but that isn't even close to enough to figure it out. One was an apoc game and ghazzy himself mauled a lot. The other was against space Marines and I kicked their teeth in but it wasn't a very good list imo but I could be wrong. Ya the tide is cool because it can't get into its own way. I used to play against a flesh tearers guy regularly and he would just make me deploy first if he could and then go all to one side and with his death company and sanguinary gaurd he would jump unit to unit and make mince meat of them one at a time with the two units of death company and the sanguinary gaurd. It was always fun but not normally very good for the boys because he would use terrain well and bottleneck them. We did use more terrain than for the tournaments around here though because it looks cooler with more terrain.
Also I am going to the beef and wing brawl with a goofy list of some models I normally don't use all that much. Well except for the gorkanauts... Personally since I'm just going to assume you have more games in than I do I wouldn't be opposed to any tips for footslogging it. As of right now it seems you need at least 200 boys to reach the front lines of a tau army with enough to do anything. Just what I've noticed around here... The tide used to make it there with just a few nobz and boys left but that was only with 100 boys. With 200 boys in the tide I might be able to make it to the lines and actually do something. Or that was the thought process anyway.
This is the most effective list I've playtested for making use of the Great Waaaaagh-Band:
Spoiler:
*Note: I know that this is speed freaks, but it has won more games than my non-speed freaks lists using the Waaaaagh-Band.*
Command Painboy
Waaaagh-Band Warboss (Da Finkin Kap, PK, EA)* warlord. 10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) <- this squad is smaller so the Boss and painboy can ride. 3 Meganobz (Kill Saw, Kombi Skorcha, Bosspole) in a Trukk (Ram) Gretchin
Auxiliary Warbuggy (Rokkit) Warbuggy (Rokkit) Warbuggy (Big Shoota) <-Wysyg is why my buggies aren't all rokkits. Warbuggy (Skorcha) 5 Tankbustas (BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Lootas 5 Lootas 5 Lobbas (Ammo Runts)
I've played around with similar lists for a while and arrived at this one finally which I'm fairly happy with, though it could be improved. The key to this list is the Lobbas. They give me a place to stash my warboss if I don't have 1st turn. I was finding with other variations of this list, it wasn't uncommon for an alpha-striky opponents (Tau, Eldar, Battle Company) to focus down the warboss on turn 1 even when he was with a full squad of ard boyz in a battlewagon.
I always roll on the Ork Warlord trait table, fishing for fearless. On the Strategic table I'm hoping for Stealth in Ruins or night fight are helpful. So is Infiltrate.
My deployment with this army is insanely cinematic. I use the entire deployment zone and fill it.
So far I'm 6-1 with this army. I lost to an invisible Dark Angle / Wolf Star in the relic. My previous iterations of this list have probably been about 12-4. So pretty successful overall. I've only had one game where I lost 6 or more trukks on turn 1, and that was a fluke which I still one because he used bad target priority, and took out the Tankbusta trukks 1st. I find that I do quite well with progressive missions, obviously I auto lose kill points. By the end of most games I've still got a good section of the board under control and some stuff left which is awesome.
Here are some pics of a version of this list with the battlewagon:
The reason I'm deployed so far back, and the Eldar so far forward is that we were playing a mission out of the Battle Missions book.
I'll post about my most successful walking boy oriented version of the Orkurion later.
Hmm that's a very interesting list. Yet again it reinforces something I already knew.... I need tankbustas! Then more mek guns too. I have like the look of buggies. How do they perform for you? I'm in the process of converting probably 5 or so since I don't like the deff koptas for some unknown reason. It isn't that they perform poorly (unless I do something stupid) I just don't like the koptas. Ya I agree that foot slogging in the orkurion seems less than ideal. I also need to get two more battlewagons and 10ish meganobs. Then I should be able to run just about any formation that I want.
Mogrok's Bossboyz:
Big Mek (Da Finkin Kap, Killsaw, KFF) *Warlord
Big Mek (Killsaw, KFF)
Big Mek (Killsaw, KFF)
Warboss (MA, DLS)
Wierdboy (ML2)
This is an area denial list. The way it works is I try to outflank as many squads of Shoota Boyz as I can. Tanky McTankerson then leads a shoota squad if they didn't get to outflank, and if not a slugga squad. The Warlord goes in there, and sometimes the painboy and Wierdboy. The other characters usually distribute evenly in the remaining squads. The Wierdboy is rolling on Sanctic. Hoping for Gate, Hammerhand or Sanctuary. He almost always perils himself to death.
I've done OK with this list. Often people don't know how to deal with it, and kinda freak out. Opponents tend to suffer paralysis of Analysis, and we have trouble getting games done quickly. It struggles against Battle Company mainly, though as always a Skathach can obliterate it.
I mainly quit playing and working on this list because I was never finishing games vs Battle Company, and that was always in their favor. I don't remember my final W/L. I was probably about 8-3 with 1/2 of those being the CAD version of the same list. I remember smashing the holy bejesus out of a Min / Maxed Eldar list. He was pissed. I also beat Tau Riptide spam at least twice with this list, and tabled a 5 Knight player.
I've got another list based on spamming painboyz to add to the Orcurion that is probably more in keeping with the way you all like to play. I can't find it this minute, but I remember posting about it on facebook, so I'll look it up later. It didn't perform as well for me, but that might have been more related to matchups.
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cranect wrote: I wouldn't be opposed to any tips for footslogging it. As of right now it seems you need at least 200 boys to reach the front lines of a tau army with enough to do anything. Just what I've noticed around here... The tide used to make it there with just a few nobz and boys left but that was only with 100 boys. With 200 boys in the tide I might be able to make it to the lines and actually do something. Or that was the thought process anyway.
Thankfully Tau lists have been changing recently. Gone are the spammed missilesides and double flamer deep striking crisis suites.
About all I see from Tau any more is Riptide Wings, Stormsuges and Ghostkiels, and way fewer marker lights. Riptides aren't quite as good at killing Orks, and are easily Tarpitted. Ghostkiels are easily killed in assault, and Stormsurges are a problem is a slightly different way. The 1st thing you need if you want to footslog boyz is Painboyz. Between Painboyz and terrain your Orks will hold up better than you expect. Another thing to consider is spamming solo Deffkoptas. They can serve as both a distraction carnifex, a tarpitter and an eater of overwatch. It's a tough matchup. The best way to beat Tau is to play Eldar, Space Marines or Demons.
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cranect wrote: I have like the look of buggies. How do they perform for you?
Buggies work alot like deffkoptas. They work better in squads than koptas because they can't run away. For the Orkurion speed freaks list I use buggies to double down on my Armor 10 Spam. They don't do much damage, but they sit on objectives and harass stuff.
Nice that list looks awesome. I could use more than one painboy you are right there. I've never used the bossboys so that actually appeals to me a lot. Plus I like the weirdboys and just never field them for some reason. Ya I normally run either hordes of boys, a dread mob list, a blood axes list with various tanks stormboyz and kommandos, or a snakebite list with squiggoths and cyboars. Never really had an urge for speed freaks or bad moons so most of the walkers will eventually be painted as goffs or blood axes, the boys mixed between all 3 tribes I like, and the planes and buggies and such blood axes. We do have a few tau players that like the marker drone formation thing and somehow I always whiff when I target them.... Same goes for superheavies. I should be able to kill them but I always whiff lol.
@tag, that's one sexy list you have got there. What's the reason for not doing it CAD and getting room for 2 painboyz? While at it why give sluggaboyz big shootas?
I took 6th in a GT this weekend. I ended 3-1-1. I won best Orks by walking in the door, but was approached by 8-10 people who swear they wanted to bring Orks but didn't think they could win.
Here was the list I took (Yes it was single CAD):
Spoiler:
Ork CAD: Mek
Big Mek (Da Finkin Kap, KFF)
5 Tankbustas in a trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram) 11 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Lootas <- in the Stompa 5 Lootas <- in the Stompa 5 Lobbas with Ammo Runts
Buzzgob's Stompa (2 Deff Kannons)
Here is a little rundown of my games:
Spoiler:
Round 1: I played a necron player with a Lytchstar and an Obelisk. I got seized on. He pumped a ton of shots into the stompa, then I killed the Obelisk with some lucky rolls. I charged a 7 wound stompa into the lytchstar with only a single warsythe able to hurt me. Several rounds of combat later the stompa went down, but he only had enough left to control one objective, so I won pretty solidly. He ended up in 3rd place overall winning all the rest of his games usually with max points.
Round 2: I played a good buddy. He had the IG artillery formation with 2 Basilisks, a Manticore, and a wyvren. He also had a Grey knight detachment with 3 DreadKnights. It was the worst designed mission I've ever played at a GT. It came to Kill Points plus kill points with extra kill points. He had 12 kill points in his army to my 22. I figured my best bet to compete was to try and table him so I bum rushed him. I seized and I was well on my way to tabling him when he shunted his last Dread Knight to the corner of the board. At the end of the game. he had 2 wounds on a dread knight and was otherwise tabled. I got 11 kill points from him, and he got 11 from me, so it came down to secondaries, and we ended tied across the board. So a Tie! I can't believe I pulled it off.
Round 3: I played Thundwolves + 2 Dread Knights and some termmies and a Sicarin.. It was a bad matchup for me, but he didn't understand my army very well. I got 1st, and deployed in a corner with lots of bubble wrap around the stompa, and a couple bait units in the other corner. He spread out evenly and distributed his IC's throughout his wolf units. He seized, and moved up very aggressively across the board. That allowed me a superior concentration of force on the right flank. I Moved the stompa so that I could Shoot one unit of Thunderwolves to death with my S10 blast and assault and kill a 2nd. Then I sent all my bikes to assault and kill a Dread knight. I shot the dread knight to death instead. My Lobbas killed a termie. He was really demoralized at this point. He assaulted and killed my lobbas, and a squad of boyz, leaving only the knob who stuck with the last squad of wolves. So the Stompa moved up the board, and killed most of the termies, and assaulted the Sicarin. the rest of my army went at full speed to kill a servitor that was marked for death. I ended up tabling him. He didn't understand my army, and deployed badly so I won a game I should have lost.
Round 4: I played Warconvocation. Another hard counter for my army. He got 1st and deployed with his haywire and knight all on one side. I counter deployed putting my lobbas on that side, and my Stompa in the other corner. So he wasted basically 2 turns shooting at me while most of my army was out of range or in reserves. When my army came on I took it to him, moving up the Stompa and assaulting his assault units before he could make them S10, and killing a bunch of stuff. I put 4 powerclaws on his knight and killed it, and kept moving the stompa towards his gunline. Game ended on 4 after a powerclaw whiffed and couldn't kill Coteaz in CC. I had 1 of the 2 objectives, but coteaz was contesting the second, so I didn't score that well. Still, he only killed 4 units outright which added up to 287 points of Orks which is awful, so I knocked him out of contention by only allowing him 4 Tournament points. If the game had gone on, it would have got worse for him. I had neutralized most of his army by Turn 4, and had a decent chance to table him if it went to 6.
Round 5: I was sitting at 3-0-1, but only 50 battle points. They were matching based off of W/L, but ignoring that for battle points, so I kept matching up while players with more battle points were matching down and and that sucked.
I played a 3 Knight list with 3 Thunderfires, 2 Storm Talons, and some scouts. The mission was really janky. I had to kill his warlord and 5 units. It was blind deployment. My Stompa can't hand 3 knights so I deployed in a corner hoping he'd split the knights up, but he deployed all 3 in the opposite corner. I bum rushed my army at his warlord. Everything was moving at top speed to get there ignore the knights. The Stompa was hitting them, but primarily bouncing off their 3++. I did get a few hull points of them with tankbustas, but a 3++ is really tough. Eventually I got the shreds of my army in with his warlord and thunderfires and killed them. My stompa backed into a corner and kept pluck at knights who were throwing themselves into dismantling the rest of my army. At this point I found out that the Baronial court runs 3D6, so they were on me fast. I managed to kill one knight by making him fail enough 3++, and got another down to 2 hull points, but the full hull point one assaulted me. I lasted 4 rounds before it took me out. I was winning at the bottom of 4. Winning at the bottom of 5. But ended tabled at the bottom of 6. If only he'd failed a few more invuls.
I was real close to going undefeated, so I'd say that proves Orks can win a game or two.
ETA: I failed in my goal to get best Xenos. The Necron player took it. I beat him head to head, but his list was much more well suited to the missions.
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Waaargh wrote: @tag, that's one sexy list you have got there. What's the reason for not doing it CAD and getting room for 2 painboyz? While at it why give sluggaboyz big shootas?
I had built the list and had run it as part of a CAD a couple times, and when the Orkurion came out it was one of my easiest lists to adapt. It works pretty well in a CAD. Once in a While the HOW has come up clutch in the Orkurion, but yeah it is better in a CAD.
The Big Shootas started as rokkits, and changed to big shootas. It isn't uncommon for those slugga squads to get shot up pretty good, pretty early on, so they tend to break off and go sit on objectives turn 3 while the characters transfer to the shoota squads. The big shootas let them contribute some while they sit on objectives. I'm not sure they are worth it. The 1st version had Rokkits instead of Big Shootas everywhere. I swapped them out for a bit more range. I might have gotten a little carried away with the special weapons.
Tankbusta nob errata was good so they can now take a PK!
Did you forget only one of them can use their meltabomb now? Fine they can take a PK but they shouldn't have to if they still could use a meltabomb each.
tag8833 wrote:At this point I found out that the Baronial court runs 3D6, so they were on me fast.
Cheated, i checked that at this moment. The only thing makes them run faster is trait which gives him +1 to run or charge distance. or he got something that i missed
And imagine that 3d6 on run and then double it, becuase thats the way SHW works. Max 18 inch x2 = 36", okey something must be wrong or you were cheated so badly.
And one more thing. Knowledge is king.
Oh found it - its Cerastus Knight-Castigator, that can move 3d6 in shooting instead of shooting, but still can't find rules that it double run range.
In all honesty, meltabomb spam was a bit cheezy for the points. I currently run bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg as a source of heavy melee punch against shv and gmc. They're pretty decent with ws5 and fearless. Can even go toe to toe with psychic deathstars that are not wolf wolves. Not really sure what to do about them other than spread out and kill everything else in hopes of not getting wiped and winning on maelstorm.
tag8833 wrote:At this point I found out that the Baronial court runs 3D6, so they were on me fast.
Cheated, i checked that at this moment. The only thing makes them run faster is trait which gives him +1 to run or charge distance. or he got something that i missed
And imagine that 3d6 on run and then double it, becuase thats the way SHW works. Max 18 inch x2 = 36", okey something must be wrong or you were cheated so badly.
And one more thing. Knowledge is king.
Oh found it - its Cerastus Knight-Castigator, that can move 3d6 in shooting instead of shooting, but still can't find rules that it double run range.
Nah. That was it. 3D6 add them together. So on one knight he rolled a 5+4+6 for a 15" run on top of a 12" move, and on another he rolled 6+6+6 for an 18" run on top of a 12" move. So he closed on me super fast towards the end. I think the 3rd knight only rolled like a 1+2+4, and wasn't that much of a problem.
He definitely used it on all 3 knights. I assume it is a benefit of the Baronial court. I'll look it up later.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: Congrats on your good showing!! Your games are exactly why the tournament scene is not for me. Those lists look like no fun to play against.
For what it is worth, I was playing at top tables all day so the lists I was facing aren't representative of the average lists at the event.
My opponents ended up: 3rd, 5th, 7th, 4th, 8th. <- Holy crap. How about that strength of schedule? I played 5 of the top 8 players. That doesn't happen often.
Has anyone considered running Zaggy now that jumppacks give fleet for charging purposes for the whole unit? Or maybe stormboyz with a biker painboss and boss. Don't know if it's worth 1.5x the price over regular choppaboyz for just speed.
koooaei wrote: Has anyone considered running Zaggy now that jumppacks give fleet for charging purposes for the whole unit? Or maybe stormboyz with a biker painboss and boss. Don't know if it's worth 1.5x the price over regular choppaboyz for just speed.
Fleet doesnt work this way.
Or there is something like draft or faq or else?
There's a faq that says that fleet doesn't work but fleet from jumppacks does. Probably because libconclave needs to also give a free re-roll for the unit.
After a 7 game losing streak of NOT playing Bully Boyz and Tankbustas in the Blitz Brigade I reverted back and easily won my first game in a long time!
The opponent had two units of Death Company, min troops in Razorbacks, and a couple of Dreads in pods and a bunch of new Psykers with the new powers. The worst was Shifting Worldscape which he said he could assault after moving terrain up to 24"!! We couldn't find anything to say he couldn't so I allowed it. Although I knew the terrain had to be atleast 1" away from the battlewagons so I made sure he couldn't get an auto assault off. Turns out the terrain also has to be an inch away from other terrain but that didn't matter too much.
Our league is playing a specific campaign that guarantees 1st turn but the defender gets an extra 10% in points.
I roll up 12" in scout and unleash the Tankbustas on my opponents Razorbacks getting double first blood. With a total of 55 Rokkits, plenty of Marines die. Thankfully no invuls or FNP.
His dreads drop behind my BW's and immobilize 2 while the frag cannons wound quite a few Tankbustas and Bully Boyz. Lucky FNP rolls mean I only lose 2 Tankbustas. The rest of the game is just shooting Rokkits while he advances and then finally my Bully Boyz jump out and finish him off. His Death Company only had AP 3 Power Weapons, no AP 2 so I was fine there. Fearless is Orks best friend not that it mattered this game. Also a Grot squad shot a lone marine trying to assault them and killed him during Overwatch.
Off to an Oldhammer tourney on Saturday. That means single CAD no superheavies. They are using "Eternal War" missions or Older. They don't tweak invis, 2+ reroll, or ranged D, so I'm expecting deathstars, and am running a Lucky stikk boss to try to demonstrate to them how dumb it is.
I'm debating between 4 lists.
Option #1 (anti-vehicle):
Spoiler:
Ork CAD:
Mek
Mek
Warboss (MA, DLS)
Painboy
7 tankbustas (2 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
7 tankbustas (2 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
7 tankbustas (1 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
16 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
The Good:
- KMK's give me AP2
- I can null deploy with just the artillery or Artillery + battlewagon
- I can throw the warboss in a trukk if the Battlewagon dies.
The Bad:
- If that battlewagon dies, I'm in trouble.
- I don't like running larger squads of Tankbustas, but I can't get other anti-vehicle power in the list easily because of the Heavy support slots
Option 2: Assaulty
Spoiler:
Ork CAD:
Mek
Mek
Warboss (MA, DLS)
Warboss (EA, DFK, PK, Shoota)
7 tankbustas (1 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
7 tankbustas (1 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
7 tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
The Good:
- I've got redundancy in case I lose a wagon.
- I can null deploy with just the Artillery + battlewagons
The Bad:
- If both battlewagons die, I'm in trouble.
- I don't like running larger squads of Tankbustas, but I can't get other anti-vehicle power in the list easily because of the Heavy support slots
Option 3: Bikestar
Spoiler:
Mek
Mek
Zhardsnark
Warboss (Bike, DLS, PK)
5 tankbustas (2 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
5 tankbustas (1 BS) in a trukk (Ram)
14 Warbikers + Nob (PK, BP)
3 Warbikers
3 Warbikers
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
Deffkopta (Rokkit)
Deffkopta (Rokkit)
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
The Good:
- If they don't Have ignores cover, I will kick the everliving bejesus out of them.
- The trukks can null deploy.
- Lootas give me some Anti-air.
The Bad:
- If they have ignores cover, I am screwed.
- I don't like deathstars.
- Zhardsnark works best when going 1st, or with a voidshield. They are using the GW Voidshield nerf.
- I am using every bike I own.
Option #4: Trukk rush
Spoiler:
Mek
Mek
Warboss (MA, DLS)
Painboy
3 Meganobz (Killsaw, BP, Kombi-skorcha) in a trukk (Ram)
5 tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
5 tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a trukk (Ram)
The Good:
- KMK's give me AP2
- I can null deploy with just the artillery
- 7 Trukks and 4 Buggies means alot of AV10.
- I could swap the KMK's to 2 squads of 2 Kannons with a Traktor Kannon for some Anti-air or a Big squad of Lootas led around by the MA Boss.
PipeAlley wrote: After a 7 game losing streak of NOT playing Bully Boyz and Tankbustas in the Blitz Brigade I reverted back and easily won my first game in a long time!
The opponent had two units of Death Company, min troops in Razorbacks, and a couple of Dreads in pods and a bunch of new Psykers with the new powers. The worst was Shifting Worldscape which he said he could assault after moving terrain up to 24"!! We couldn't find anything to say he couldn't so I allowed it. Although I knew the terrain had to be atleast 1" away from the battlewagons so I made sure he couldn't get an auto assault off. Turns out the terrain also has to be an inch away from other terrain but that didn't matter too much.
Our league is playing a specific campaign that guarantees 1st turn but the defender gets an extra 10% in points.
I roll up 12" in scout and unleash the Tankbustas on my opponents Razorbacks getting double first blood. With a total of 55 Rokkits, plenty of Marines die. Thankfully no invuls or FNP.
His dreads drop behind my BW's and immobilize 2 while the frag cannons wound quite a few Tankbustas and Bully Boyz. Lucky FNP rolls mean I only lose 2 Tankbustas. The rest of the game is just shooting Rokkits while he advances and then finally my Bully Boyz jump out and finish him off. His Death Company only had AP 3 Power Weapons, no AP 2 so I was fine there. Fearless is Orks best friend not that it mattered this game. Also a Grot squad shot a lone marine trying to assault them and killed him during Overwatch.
Tabled him on turn 5.
Simple but effective.
Grats on the win!
55 Rokkits? Nice!
What else did you bring besides the Blitz Brigade + Bully Boyz + Tankbustas? Min CAD w/ Grots? Meks?
PipeAlley wrote: After a 7 game losing streak of NOT playing Bully Boyz and Tankbustas in the Blitz Brigade I reverted back and easily won my first game in a long time!
The opponent had two units of Death Company, min troops in Razorbacks, and a couple of Dreads in pods and a bunch of new Psykers with the new powers. The worst was Shifting Worldscape which he said he could assault after moving terrain up to 24"!! We couldn't find anything to say he couldn't so I allowed it. Although I knew the terrain had to be atleast 1" away from the battlewagons so I made sure he couldn't get an auto assault off. Turns out the terrain also has to be an inch away from other terrain but that didn't matter too much.
Our league is playing a specific campaign that guarantees 1st turn but the defender gets an extra 10% in points.
I roll up 12" in scout and unleash the Tankbustas on my opponents Razorbacks getting double first blood. With a total of 55 Rokkits, plenty of Marines die. Thankfully no invuls or FNP.
His dreads drop behind my BW's and immobilize 2 while the frag cannons wound quite a few Tankbustas and Bully Boyz. Lucky FNP rolls mean I only lose 2 Tankbustas. The rest of the game is just shooting Rokkits while he advances and then finally my Bully Boyz jump out and finish him off. His Death Company only had AP 3 Power Weapons, no AP 2 so I was fine there. Fearless is Orks best friend not that it mattered this game. Also a Grot squad shot a lone marine trying to assault them and killed him during Overwatch.
Tabled him on turn 5.
Simple but effective.
Grats on the win!
55 Rokkits? Nice!
What else did you bring besides the Blitz Brigade + Bully Boyz + Tankbustas? Min CAD w/ Grots? Meks?
2 Painboys (one is Warlord) and two min Grots. Painboys each go with one Tankbusta mob each having max Bustas including nob with PK and BP. One TB mob has three Bomb Squigs and the other only two because points are that tight! Bully Boyz each have two with Killsaws. They also used to have three Kombi Skorchas but I needed those points to give the TB Nobz PK's since now only one grenade per phase. The TB still gets to use Tank Hunters so he's better than yer average nob vs vehicles.
The Deployment is simple: deploy all five BB at the starting line with the Tankbustas in the 2nd and 4th positions. Either shoulder to shoulder or spread out depending on opponents high strength blast capability. This game I scouted to block his soon to be floating terrain piece and it worked! Otherwise my only suggestion is to avoid the temptation to disembark with anything for as long as reasonable. Let the Rokkits do their job for at least two turns.
Worst case is most armies will destroy a BW in CC and I can shuffle around the mobs depending on the situation during my turn. Open-topped means I can move and assault normally as long as I didn't get pinned.
Snap shotting the TB's isn't all that bad. Have taken down plenty of fliers and invisible Eldar jetbikes.
So, I have to try out this list I came up with.
It utilizes the slow and purposeful big mek and as many mek guns possible.
The following will fit in 2 cads and a codex orks detachmemt
-7 x Bigmek in mega armor
-2x mek with roket Launchers
-7 x basic squad of grots
-7 x mekgunz (squad of 5) all with Kannons
-2x mekgunz (squad of 5) all with lobbas
-6x defkoptas (individual )
I'll explain. More of its strategy later.
Edit
Ok, this is 1830pts.
Now for some clarification.
Why just mostly Kannons instead of lobbas? I could've done nothing but lobbas, but 45 small blasts a turn isn't very fun to do and will only tick off your opponent. Also the ma bigmeks work best with Kannons. Also the point of this list was to add as many mekgunz as possible, so I didn't go with any of the more expensive mekgunz upgrades.
The ma bigmeks help the Mekgunz with slow and purposeful, allowing them to get in range and stay away from melee targets, but as an extra protection there is a grot squad running interference for each Kannons squad.
The Bigmek will be t7 as part of the Mekgunz unit and will grant the unit 2up armour if he is up front.
The 2 meks are there to give the 2 lobba squads leadership 7 (can probably drop their rokets if I need the points somewhere else).
The rest of the points are mainly for relics/ammo runts.
Now I plan on play testing this list eventually, I don't have 45 mekgunz, but I have plenty of proxies for them (killa kanz ).
First off, that sort of silly overblown list is exactly what ends up being awesome and Orky to play. Good on you for that.
However, you really need to try and work out some Mek Guns that aren't proxied. There's ways to convert Kanz into Gunz by adding supports behind, beefing up their gun arm appropriately, and removing their melee weapon (often using that arm to further support the big weapon). But then there's also ways to relatively cheaply scratchbuild Mek guns- or of course there's cheap artillery pieces from other game systems and miniatures makers that can be orkified.
I took a trukk rush army to an Oldhammer RTT, and manage to eek out 3 wins, and take 1st.
This was the list I took:
Spoiler:
Ork CAD:
Mek Mek
Warboss (Mega Armor, Da Lucky Stikk) Warboss (Eavy Armor, Da Finkin Kap, Power Klaw, Shoota) * Warlord
3 Meganobz (1 Killsaws, Boss Pole, 1 Kombi-Skorcha) in a trukk (Ram) 5 tankbustas in a trukk (Ram) 5 tankbustas in a trukk (Ram)
9 Boyz + Nob (Power Klaw, Shoota, Boss Pole) in a trukk (Ram) 9 Boyz + Nob (Power Klaw, Shoota, Boss Pole) in a trukk (Ram) 9 Boyz + Nob (Power Klaw, Shoota, Boss Pole) in a trukk (Ram) 9 Boyz + Nob (Power Klaw, Shoota, Boss Pole) in a trukk (Ram)
5 Lobbas (5 Ammo Runts) 3 Kustom Mega Kannons + 2 Kannons (5 Ammo Runts)
A little summary of the games:
Spoiler:
Mission #1 was Kill points vs Tau running a couple of Crisis suite bombs, and a bunch of drones. Da Finkin Kap won this mission for me. I got -1 to opponent's reserves. All of his reserves failed to come in on Turn 2, which let me declare my WAAAAAAGH and assault everything he had on the table. I killed everything except a single Marker Drone which fled, but not quite far enough to make it off the table. On turn 3, he drops in 2 squads of 3 plasma suites. I killed one squad in shooting, and failed a charge to kill the other squad, but at this point we were running short on time, and the game outcome wasn't in doubt. He kill 3 Trukks and a Warbuggy. I killed 8 units, and he only had 4 suites left. Final score 10 - 7 Orks.
Whew. Got my worst mission, and worst matchup out of the way.
Mission #2 was Screamer Star. This event didn't nerf the 2++ reroll, and they didn't nerf warp dice or psychic powers, so this was clearly a list designed to take advantage of it. He had 8 Screamers with 3 Mastery level 3 Heralds attached. One had the grimoir. One had the paradox. Then he had a ML3 Tzeech prince with an artifact that gave it a 3++, and a warlord trait that made it a 2++ reroll. Then he had fateweaver, and 2 units of Pink Horrors. I got 1st turn, so I decided to sieze the opportunity and alphastrike 1/2 of the screamers to death, Thanks to the Infiltrate warlord trait, I had a perfect shot with all my Tankbusts, and KMK's at the screamerstar turn 1. Unfortunately it was night fight. I couldn't roll 2+'s to wound, and I only made him take about 8 saves, and he passed all of them. He assaulted and killed my KMK's, but I denied Cursed Earth, so the Screamer star was only a 3++ rerolling 1's. So I sent the MANZ, 2 Squads of Boyz, and the Lucky Stikk boss to assault them hoping to do some damage. I won combat by 2, but he made leadership. Meanwhile the rest of my army was killing the pink Horrors because they couldn't really touch Fateweaver or the Tzeech prince. From the Top of 2 to the bottom of 5 my army fought that screamer star in CC. I never denied cursed earth again, and he never failed the grimoir. I'll be I put more than 120 S8 or 10 Wounds on the screamers, but he mainly shrugged it off with his 2++ reroll. I was generally losing combat by 1 each turn, and sticking thanks to making leadership and mob rule. I never got a herald, and he ended the game with 3 screamers left. But my Ob-Sec boys controlled the objective under the combat, and I had 2 other objectives to his 2 total at the end of 5, and we decided we didn't have time to play 6. So I eeeked it out by the narrowest of margins. Final Score 10-8 Orks.
Mission #3. Having knocked off one screamerstar, I figured I'd have to play the 2nd at top tables, but it wasn't to be. A CSM Nurgle Bike list was tearing it up, and outscoring me. so I played a mech guard army at table 2. The Mech Gaurd player had lots of flamers, and they proved to be his undoing, because he moved forward when he should have backed up. One well done WAAAAGH, and most of the vehicles were gone. I tabled him at the bottom of 4. He kill 4 trukks, and most of my boyz, but both warbosses were still killing stuff at the end.
The Nurgle bikes manage to tie the Screamerstar at top table leaving me the only undefeated, so I walk away in 1st overall. The 3rd game was by far the easiest. The 2nd game would have gone differently if my opponent had to do it over again. He wasn't really clear how to use his powers, and could have done more damage to me, and at the bottom of 5 he made a wrong charge. Still it was a good showing for orks.
A few notes on my list: 1) KMK did not do what I wanted them to. I should have run more tankbustas instead. In game 3 they never shot because they couldn't get range on a Guard player in Hammer and Anvil. In game 2 they scattered so bad they barely did anything. In game 1, they killed 1 crisis suite, and made some pirhannas jink. 2) MSU worked out, and was my only hope in Game 2. Orks just can't deathstar like other armies. 3) Kill points sucks, because my 1st opponent had so few units, even though I basically tabled him, I didn't score hardly anything. Meanwhile, he scored nearly what I did despite killing very few Orks. 4) Lucky Stikk MA boss in a trukk was more effective than I would have expected. In the Tau game, he blew up my trukk, but I switch him to another trukk, and kept moving forward. 5) I'm actually doing fairly well with Orks this season. This is my 4th RTT win, and the 2nd one that is getting reported to the ITC. I've taken 4th, 5th, and 6th in GT's (Also 18th, 25th, and 29th). I'm not going to be at the Top of the ITC rankings, but I'll be somewhere in the 50's probably, and that is significant when you consider there are over 3,000 players. There are currently 2 other Ork players right up there with me in the 50's. That leaves me feeling much better about the Capability of the Ork codex to engage in Competitive play compared to where I was at the start of the season.
My next event is August 20. I'm running Kan Wall in a friendly RTT.
That's great! Though, i feel you got VERY lucky with the tau player. All he should have done was probably just not reserve his stuff and he'd get so many killpoints out of you 1-st turn it'd secure his victory.
That's great! Though, i feel you got VERY lucky with the tau player. All he should have done was probably just not reserve his stuff and he'd get so many killpoints out of you 1-st turn it'd secure his victory.
Probably. He would have won kill points. I might have tabled him. The only reason I didn't table him was he came in with reserves really deep in my backfield. It was definitely lucky. So was the game against the screamer star, though both games had moments of bad luck (Against the Tau player I failed a 6" charge, and a 7" charge)
ETA: If I had switched armies with any of my 3 opponents, I would have been pretty confident I could have beat my list. Part of the Advantage of playing Orks is that they have been so thoroughly scrubbed from the meta that people don't know what to expect out of them. In my last 3 events I've taken major advantage of that, and won a bunch of games that should have gone the other way.
Anvildude wrote: First off, that sort of silly overblown list is exactly what ends up being awesome and Orky to play. Good on you for that.
However, you really need to try and work out some Mek Guns that aren't proxied. There's ways to convert Kanz into Gunz by adding supports behind, beefing up their gun arm appropriately, and removing their melee weapon (often using that arm to further support the big weapon). But then there's also ways to relatively cheaply scratchbuild Mek guns- or of course there's cheap artillery pieces from other game systems and miniatures makers that can be orkified.
The proxies are just for a test game. I do plan on making my own small horde of Mek gunz (it would be too expensive to buy the actual kit). And I have made mekgunz out of Killa kanz b4
I'm playing in the Gencon ITC event, and get decide what I should take. I might take a fun list, just so I don't make it to day 2 so I can spend some time in the vendor hall or I'll take a competitive list and see how it goes. Suggestion on units?
Glitcha wrote: I'm playing in the Gencon ITC event, and get decide what I should take. I might take a fun list, just so I don't make it to day 2 so I can spend some time in the vendor hall or I'll take a competitive list and see how it goes. Suggestion on units?
PipeAlley wrote: After a 7 game losing streak of NOT playing Bully Boyz and Tankbustas in the Blitz Brigade I reverted back and easily won my first game in a long time!
The opponent had two units of Death Company, min troops in Razorbacks, and a couple of Dreads in pods and a bunch of new Psykers with the new powers. The worst was Shifting Worldscape which he said he could assault after moving terrain up to 24"!! We couldn't find anything to say he couldn't so I allowed it. Although I knew the terrain had to be atleast 1" away from the battlewagons so I made sure he couldn't get an auto assault off. Turns out the terrain also has to be an inch away from other terrain but that didn't matter too much.
Our league is playing a specific campaign that guarantees 1st turn but the defender gets an extra 10% in points.
I roll up 12" in scout and unleash the Tankbustas on my opponents Razorbacks getting double first blood. With a total of 55 Rokkits, plenty of Marines die. Thankfully no invuls or FNP.
His dreads drop behind my BW's and immobilize 2 while the frag cannons wound quite a few Tankbustas and Bully Boyz. Lucky FNP rolls mean I only lose 2 Tankbustas. The rest of the game is just shooting Rokkits while he advances and then finally my Bully Boyz jump out and finish him off. His Death Company only had AP 3 Power Weapons, no AP 2 so I was fine there. Fearless is Orks best friend not that it mattered this game. Also a Grot squad shot a lone marine trying to assault them and killed him during Overwatch.
Tabled him on turn 5.
Simple but effective.
Grats on the win!
55 Rokkits? Nice!
What else did you bring besides the Blitz Brigade + Bully Boyz + Tankbustas? Min CAD w/ Grots? Meks?
2 Painboys (one is Warlord) and two min Grots. Painboys each go with one Tankbusta mob each having max Bustas including nob with PK and BP. One TB mob has three Bomb Squigs and the other only two because points are that tight! Bully Boyz each have two with Killsaws. They also used to have three Kombi Skorchas but I needed those points to give the TB Nobz PK's since now only one grenade per phase. The TB still gets to use Tank Hunters so he's better than yer average nob vs vehicles.
The Deployment is simple: deploy all five BB at the starting line with the Tankbustas in the 2nd and 4th positions. Either shoulder to shoulder or spread out depending on opponents high strength blast capability. This game I scouted to block his soon to be floating terrain piece and it worked! Otherwise my only suggestion is to avoid the temptation to disembark with anything for as long as reasonable. Let the Rokkits do their job for at least two turns.
Worst case is most armies will destroy a BW in CC and I can shuffle around the mobs depending on the situation during my turn. Open-topped means I can move and assault normally as long as I didn't get pinned.
Snap shotting the TB's isn't all that bad. Have taken down plenty of fliers and invisible Eldar jetbikes.
Played a rematch against the same person last week but his list was tailored to beat my same list. He ran two large bike squads with 4 wound Eternal Warrior Chapter Masters in some type of formations that granted 2+ Armor, 4++ Invuls and either 2+ or 3+ FNP!!! Along with Psykers Shenanigans and as many Lascannons and Grav guns he could fit.
My list had zero Str 10 so those FNP rolls were killing me! Also we were playing maelstrom and he had great draws and my were terribad. Super fun game that I lost on points. I'm going to take out one Painboy and throw in a MADLS Warboss for some Str 10. Both HQ's will go in the same mob of Tankbustas and swap to the other mob once they get whittled down. Looking forward to the next game!
koooaei wrote: Now that models explain 'how' megaarmour characters can make mek gunz move and shoot. It's not the characters - it's the legs of the guns!
FlashyGit wrote: @pipealley, how do you equip your battlewagons in the list?
Mandatory ram, 4 Rokkits a piece, and a Kannon in if I have the points.
For instance, I just had to ditch the Kannonz on the 3 carrying the Bully Boyz (and the Nobz in the Tankbusta units) so I could swap out the second Painboy for a MADLS Warbosss. The extra range is okay but obviously the Scout move gets the Rokkits in range of just about everything anyways. The Battlewagons are semi-disposable and my goal is to keep the Tankbustas mounted as long as possible. Most people try to wreck the Manz' wagons first and they are usually 6" closer than the Tankbustas' ones. I never worry about snap firing, it's more important to get the BullyBoyz where they need to be! Maybe getting rid of the Rokkits on the three BB wagons might be better but it's hard to pass up when they're so cheap!!
Glitcha wrote: I'm playing in the Gencon ITC event, and get decide what I should take. I might take a fun list, just so I don't make it to day 2 so I can spend some time in the vendor hall or I'll take a competitive list and see how it goes. Suggestion on units?
Glitcha wrote: I'm playing in the Gencon ITC event, and get decide what I should take. I might take a fun list, just so I don't make it to day 2 so I can spend some time in the vendor hall or I'll take a competitive list and see how it goes. Suggestion on units?
+ HQ +
Warboss w/ Mega Armour [Gift: Da Finkin' Kap, Mega Armour, Power Klaw, Twin-linked Shoota]
Warboss w/ Mega Armour [Gift: Da Lucky Stikk, Mega Armour, Power Klaw, Twin-linked Shoota]
+ Heavy Support +
Mek Gunz [5x Ammo Runt, 5x Kustom Mega-kannon]
Mek Gunz [5x Ammo Runt, 5x Smasha Gun]
Mek Gunz [5x Ammo Runt, Kannon, 5x Zzap Gun]
the ultimate goal is to spam every sort of gun but most tourneys ban identical cads, so you'll have to get rid of one type. Maybe you could get rid of kannons and get rokkits in some other places like tankbustas or koptas.
That list looks hilariously fun. I am going to the beef and wing gt I a few days and I'm just bringing a list I will have fun with. It has some potential if the practice tourney a bit back is to judge by.
Gorkanaut Krushin Krew
3 Gorkanauts with extra armor
CAD 2 Big Meks with KFF 10 gretchin
15 gretchin
10 burnaboyz
9 burnaboyz
Gargantuan Squiggoth
The few practice games I have done it actually fared better than expected and I had good chances of winning but I made a few mistakes.
Against spacewolves with 3 units of wulfen, 2 thunderwolf cavalry squads with iron priests and wolf lords attached, 2 deep striking units of jump infantry with 2 flamers, and 3 squads of guys with a meltagun in drop pods.
That game ended poorly for him and it ended with 1 gorkanaut left on my side and one of the flame squads and 3 wulfen with the claws on his. I was ahead on points and he couldn't finish me and it ended there on turn 6.
In the tournament I miss deployed against the eldar opponent or I probably would have wrecked him. He had 2 units of deepstriking dscythes and I didn't think 25 gretchin would be enough to shield the gorkanauts. It turns out it would have been enough as we measured it out later but since his bikes, skatatch wraithknight, and warp spiders blocked my deployment zone none of the naughts or squiggoth came on because I reserved them thinking turn 2 some could walk on and kill the gaurd. It was close but he remembered he could block it. I almost got enough with the burn as to bring 2 on turn three though.
The other game against eldar I should have charged the sword and board wraithknifht with the squiggoth and the gorkanaught and he got lucky and made 10 out of 10 junk saves on his 2 transports hiding both types of shooting wraithgaurd. If either of those had gone differently I probably would have had it.
The last tournament game was against a not so competitive blood angels list that killed one unit of gretchin and I accidentally killed the other with the squiggoth. Other than that he was tabled since he just had none of the tools to deal with the squiggoth and naughts and the naughts blasted his devastators of the table turn one with shooting.
I put a painboy in each big squad of boyz. I rolled on the Ork Chart hoping for fearless, but if I didn't get it, then I had one squad with the Big Bosspole. The lobbas were a late addition to the list. I had tried a number of things in that Aux slot, and was never happy with them. I think I was happiest with 5 Individual Kannons, but they lost me a Kill point mission once. The 3 Min squads of boyz kept changing between Shoota and Slugga Boyz.
I did OK with this list taking it to a 3rd place finish at an RTT. Lots of armies don't have that much AP:4, so I was able to make alot of 4+/5++ saves, and with the Every Turn Waaagh I was able to advance on them fairly quickly. The problem was I didn't have enough damage output once I arrived. I would throw hundreds of dice, but so many things in the game aren't terribly scared of S3 or 4 attacks. Also, my warboss regularly got punked in CC by better challenge characters. The Warboss was on a Bike for a while after he got challenged out and Killed by a Dread Knight. The Bike might have been an improvement. I also gave him Super Cybork for a while, but fearless is more important.
To Sumarize: I was never 100% happy with this list. Its the reason it ended up so far back in my facebook posts and google drive. If anyone thinks they could list doctor it I'd hear you out.
I had a thought today about the Green tide, I wondered if anyone else has had the same thought.
What about sticking one or more extra characters on warbikes into a green tide? My reason for this is warbikes don't take difficult terrain tests. while unit coherency must be maintained a string of biker bosses could make assault and pull the tide along. Has anyone done this before?
I am not thinking I'd give a warbike to the Boss of the Green tide who I'd have as my warlord
Is there a flaw in that I'm not seeing? This occurred to me after reading the first draft rule book faq.
Because the Warboss in the Tide has to issue and accept challenges, I ran him on a bike for a bit. I also had a Big Mek with MFF on bike and painboy on bike in the tide for a while. They would break off and sit on objectives at the end of game if I needed them to.
I don't think I ever used one of them to extend my charge range, but I was aware of that option, it just never really came up. I only played the characters on bike for a little while, so I'm no expert. I'll probably give Green Tide another run in our narrative campaign starting in a couple weeks. Right now looking at my reasoning, its tempting to run bikes in the Tide, but our campaign games will be 1500 so points might be tight.
Something of note is that the Warboss from the Greentide formation can't take a warbike, it's specifically called out as a restriction unless I'm mistaken. Of course any ICs from another detachment can take a warbike and join the tide.
I'm thinking os the Green tide with one or two extra baby cad for the extra characters depending on the build the Green tide wr boss will be some where near the back out of harms way. But I'm thinking one biker boss with da lucky stick and maybe a second, for any needed chaining. and maybe a pain boy. I can't remember for sure if it's alowed but the war boss in th tide will get Da finkin cap. and try to get the tide infiltrated closer. I'll leave paths for the biker characters to move up in the middle nearish the front they can join or join later if they have to turbo boost up. My little list also has 30 storm boys in a mob, which I might also sneak up the field if I am allowed to. I'll bubble wrap them with the green tide.I have room for two squads of lootas as well not sure what I really need. Thinking just more meat for the tide. I had though about 30 grot to also infiltrate up the board and stand in front of the tide for a turn.but that might be better as two mobs of 15. I just need them to stand there for the enemies first turn. The big thing is every one , the biker bosses and the tide have ere we go., so the tide can still run and assault. the bikers wont hinder that. That's my little plan anyway. I also put 10 rokkits in the tide. for flyers, if we for some reason aren't in combat.
I'm not happy about the wobbly models syndrome rule from the new faq. I had earlier built a list to do everything I wanted and hole ll the open table to cause flyers to crash, of fly off the board. Oh well.
xlDuke wrote: Something of note is that the Warboss from the Greentide formation can't take a warbike, it's specifically called out as a restriction unless I'm mistaken. Of course any ICs from another detachment can take a warbike and join the tide.
Good note. I definitely screwed that up once upon a time.
Question:
How Good (or bad) is Da Ded Shiny Shoota?
Im thinking of making an Ork Warboss with a Minigun (and an Assault 6 Twin-Linked Weapon DEFINITELY fits the bill)
It isnt for Practical use
commander dante wrote: Question:
How Good (or bad) is Da Ded Shiny Shoota?
Im thinking of making an Ork Warboss with a Minigun (and an Assault 6 Twin-Linked Weapon DEFINITELY fits the bill)
It isnt for Practical use
The Stray Shot rule is fluffy but aggravating - be prepared to force a smile when it kills off your own troops and potentially even costs you the game. That side effect can be minimised by only shooting at enemy units more than 6" away from your own units, but that in turn can be limiting mid-game, especially as orks like to get up in their enemies' faces.
commander dante wrote: Question:
How Good (or bad) is Da Ded Shiny Shoota?
Im thinking of making an Ork Warboss with a Minigun (and an Assault 6 Twin-Linked Weapon DEFINITELY fits the bill)
It isnt for Practical use
The Stray Shot rule is fluffy but aggravating - be prepared to force a smile when it kills off your own troops and potentially even costs you the game. That side effect can be minimised by only shooting at enemy units more than 6" away from your own units, but that in turn can be limiting mid-game, especially as orks like to get up in their enemies' faces.
I'd give it to a Weird boy or a Painboy in a heartbeat if they could take relics
I was going to suggest Mogrok's Bossboyz to add characters to Green tide but then I remembered taking that formation meant giving up Waaagh. Orks get nothing without a cost :(
thalkaresh wrote: I was going to suggest Mogrok's Bossboyz to add characters to Green tide but then I remembered taking that formation meant giving up Waaagh. Orks get nothing without a cost :(
I always just take a CAD with it, and settle for a Painboy and either a Big Mek with KFF or an extra warboss. You need some grots to sit in the backfield anyways.
It's kinda weird how challenging it is to get much needed Ork Characters. Mogrok's Bossboyz gives us Characters, but mostly Big Meks who aren't that good, and it takes away WAAAGH.
----------
I've got a rules question for you guys. If I take a Da Finkin Kap on a Warboss in a CAD, and I roll my 1st Warlord trait on Strategic. I can reroll that one. But do I get to reroll the extra one that comes from DFK? I've always played it that I don't (Unless it is a duplicate), but I've seen other people reroll it. I don't want to short change myself, but I also don't want to win games based on a janky rules interpretation.
You need to be warlord to call Waagh and the formation states;
"The controlling player must nominate one Big Mek in this formation to be his Warlord (Mogrok). Mogrok always has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait (see Codex: Orks). Very Kunnin’
Unless someone knows a loop hole I'm not aware of that formation means giving up the Waagh 100%.
thalkaresh wrote: I was going to suggest Mogrok's Bossboyz to add characters to Green tide but then I remembered taking that formation meant giving up Waaagh. Orks get nothing without a cost :(
I always just take a CAD with it, and settle for a Painboy and either a Big Mek with KFF or an extra warboss. You need some grots to sit in the backfield anyways.
It's kinda weird how challenging it is to get much needed Ork Characters. Mogrok's Bossboyz gives us Characters, but mostly Big Meks who aren't that good, and it takes away WAAAGH.
----------
I've got a rules question for you guys. If I take a Da Finkin Kap on a Warboss in a CAD, and I roll my 1st Warlord trait on Strategic. I can reroll that one. But do I get to reroll the extra one that comes from DFK? I've always played it that I don't (Unless it is a duplicate), but I've seen other people reroll it. I don't want to short change myself, but I also don't want to win games based on a janky rules interpretation.
I've always played it that you do get to re-roll the Finkin Kap's strategic trait if you've got the Ideal Mission Commander Command Benefit from a CAD - it says something to the effect of "if this detachment is your Primary Detachment you can re-roll the roll on the Warlord Traits table". It's very unusual (perhaps unique) to be able to roll two warlord traits so the singular roll implied by " the roll on the warlord traits table" is to be expected. How I see it - you get to re-roll your warlord trait, you can generate two of these and can re-roll both". I can see how people could argue otherwise but my opponents agree that both can be re-rolled so that's how I play it.
thalkaresh wrote: You need to be warlord to call Waagh and the formation states;
"The controlling player must nominate one Big Mek in this formation to be his Warlord (Mogrok). Mogrok always has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait (see Codex: Orks). Very Kunnin’
Unless someone knows a loop hole I'm not aware of that formation means giving up the Waagh 100%.
You're correct, if you're taking Mogrok's Bossboyz then you aren't able to Waaagh! as there's no way for Mogrok to gain that Warlord Trait and you can't choose another model to be your Warlord. This isn't really such a huge problem because with the Bossboyz you want to build your list around the Outflank and Acute Senses bonus (a very nice bonus, though a costly one) utilising those Big Meks as much as possible (easier said than done because Big Meks are hugely overcosted and not really that useful since 7th edition).
That's what I was wondering. Is calling Da Waaaagh needed?
If I can manage to get my Green tide half way up the board through infiltration.
Boss boys brings a lot to the table.
I started thinking about the sneaky tide the other day when I was told Orks struggle with armour, in reference to a meched up marine army. I though this could quickly disprove that.
The concern I have is GMC's and SHW's. mostly, their stomps.
That and being tied up from two opposite directions by enemy assault.
killerdou wrote: Why not put the finking kap on Mogrok, you'll have a 1/5 chance to get the warlord trait that gives you waaagh!
The Finkin Kap gives you an additional Warlord Trait that has to be rolled from the Strategic Traits table, you can't roll on the codex table.
warhead01 wrote: That's what I was wondering. Is calling Da Waaaagh needed?
If I can manage to get my Green tide half way up the board through infiltration.
Boss boys brings a lot to the table.
I started thinking about the sneaky tide the other day when I was told Orks struggle with armour, in reference to a meched up marine army. I though this could quickly disprove that.
The concern I have is GMC's and SHW's. mostly, their stomps.
That and being tied up from two opposite directions by enemy assault.
How useful infiltrating the tide will be depends on your opponents I guess, my opponents are usually best at mid/close range so the 6" infiltration isn't great. If your opponent is staying on his board edge then that infiltrate move is invaluable. Personally I would rather get the most out of being able to Waaagh! every turn so I'd always use the Greentide Warboss as Warlord.
Orks don't struggle with armour as a rule, we struggle with SHV, AV14 and to a lesser extent AV13. We're actually fairly well equipped to deal with AV10-12 even at range between Lootas, Tankbustas, Kustom Mega Kannon and cheap rokkits everywhere. The main problem being that all our fire support units are very fragile with low leadership and you need to prioritise your turn 1 shooting effectively because you might not get to use them turn 2 and it's most likely they won't be around on turn 3. The lack of Melta/Lance/Graviton or even Lascannon (yes, Imperials, I'm even jealous of these ) equivalent wrapons means that high AV and SH are not at all easy to deal with.
I like to rely on blast weapons when I can but playing the tide makes me worry about my own bad scatters.
We do have anti-armour but we also have the dubious pleasure of BS2... But it's also in low abundance mostly. I'm really thinking a lot about KMB's in burna boy mobs but it doesn't go very far, tank bustas are much more numerous so I guess they're a better choice over all.
I don't play many games under 3000+ points. so fitting a list together in 1850 is quite the challenge.
thalkaresh wrote: I was going to suggest Mogrok's Bossboyz to add characters to Green tide but then I remembered taking that formation meant giving up Waaagh. Orks get nothing without a cost :(
I always just take a CAD with it, and settle for a Painboy and either a Big Mek with KFF or an extra warboss. You need some grots to sit in the backfield anyways.
It's kinda weird how challenging it is to get much needed Ork Characters. Mogrok's Bossboyz gives us Characters, but mostly Big Meks who aren't that good, and it takes away WAAAGH.
----------
I've got a rules question for you guys. If I take a Da Finkin Kap on a Warboss in a CAD, and I roll my 1st Warlord trait on Strategic. I can reroll that one. But do I get to reroll the extra one that comes from DFK? I've always played it that I don't (Unless it is a duplicate), but I've seen other people reroll it. I don't want to short change myself, but I also don't want to win games based on a janky rules interpretation.
I would assume you can since it just says you can reroll your warlord trait. Since you get two instead of one there isn't anything to say you ant reroll it so personally I have always rerolled it whenever I do it. I like to try to infiltrate the green tide. It was the best against the poor drop pod Marines who couldn't even get within 3 of any of the 6 objectives.
Mogrok ALWAYS has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait (see Codex: Orks). Very Kunnin’
Hate to say it but I would say its written pretty clearly that he always has that trait. I play with a bunch of rule sticklers sadly so have to tread lightly on the path of creative interpretation.
Its basically a rewrite of the Ork Codex which fixes many issues we have with the current dex,as well as open up a ton more options for army building. Of course its to use in friendly games with opponent consent.
I just tought to bring it for those that might have missed it.
I've been watching that develop for a while now. I haven't used it yet. It's a lot to take in. I really want to print it but he has been updating. Maybe it's going to be a living document. He's never said that I can recall.
Well Gencon is over. I had a lot of fun and played a lot of games. At the ITC event, I finished 4th with my Orks. I played on the top table in the last round. I screwed up my strategy in the 2nd turn and I knew I was going to lose, but it was a good game. Gave that tournament player a run for his money. Overall record was 3-1-1. Record is a new personal best for myself. Below is my list:
Great Waagh Band
Command- Big mek in mega armor with killsaw, KFF and Da lucky stick
Core
Waagh band - [ warboss in mega armor with da super cybork body, attack squig, and boss pole] [Grots] [5 nobz in 'ard armor. Boss nob with BP and another nob with power klaw in trukk] [ 15 man 'ard boy squad with nob BP and PK] [5x 10 boy squads with shootas, nob with PK and BP in trukk]
Thanks. List hits pretty hard in turn 2. Every game, I was launching multiple assaults. I actually assault all of someone's army, but one of their units in my 2nd turn. We didn't even do the assaults. He folded.
LOL for having to take a CAD to get a Painboy. The Orkurion is so poorly designed it is funny sometimes.
There was 20 of us that were able to make it. 3 tau players (2 of them were playing the same list), 1 necron player, 1 sister player with IK, 1 Ik and assassins, 1 admech, 2 space wolf players, 2 eldar players, 6 space marine players (couple white scares lists, Imperial fist, and Ultramarines), 2 IG players and my self as the only ork player. Only couple of list I saw were WAAC list, most of the others was some LoW with support, or MSU style list.
4 out 5 of my games there was a LoW. (I killed the LoW in each game in a single round of combat. 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault, and Wraithknight) I played the kid that won in the final round. He was playing eldar seer council, wraithknight, and a bunch of MSU jet bike squads.
Yeah I had the points and I really wanted a pain boy in my main squad. so the 'ard boyz were WS5 4+ armor and had FNP. Couple games they were fearless since I rolled up prophet of the waagh rule for my warlord trait.
Changing subject a bit here...im preparing for an apocalypse game, and i want to field the 'ork stormer elite' formation. Im thinking three small Units as i currently have 19 stormboyz and 1 nob with pk. Im making two more nobz, but i cant decide if i should give them pk or bigchoppas. Fyi i plan om deepstriking and assaulting juicy targets behind enemy lines
Any input would be appreciated
Thanks
Glitcha wrote: 4 out 5 of my games there was a LoW. (I killed the LoW in each game in a single round of combat. 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault, and Wraithknight)
How'd you kill 2 Stormsurges in 1 round of combat? That is 16 Wounds with a 3+/4++ and FNP. Even if you get 4-5 Powerclaws on there it's going to take a couple of rounds.
Interesting that the event only pulled 20. Why didn't they do a 3 round RTT instead of a 5 round GT? Were the TO's disappointed with the turnout?
Glitcha wrote: 4 out 5 of my games there was a LoW. (I killed the LoW in each game in a single round of combat. 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault, and Wraithknight)
How'd you kill 2 Stormsurges in 1 round of combat? That is 16 Wounds with a 3+/4++ and FNP. Even if you get 4-5 Powerclaws on there it's going to take a couple of rounds.
Interesting that the event only pulled 20. Why didn't they do a 3 round RTT instead of a 5 round GT? Were the TO's disappointed with the turnout?
I think he means total of 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault and a Wraithknight. Each of them took a round to kill.
koooaei wrote: I think he means total of 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault and a Wraithknight. Each of them took a round to kill.
Oh. Gotcha.
I've been having increasing problems with Fateweavers recently. Does anyone have tips for killing a Fateweaver? Once in a while I can get one with lootas, but usually they can survive alot of lootas.
koooaei wrote: I think he means total of 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault and a Wraithknight. Each of them took a round to kill.
Oh. Gotcha.
I've been having increasing problems with Fateweavers recently. Does anyone have tips for killing a Fateweaver? Once in a while I can get one with lootas, but usually they can survive alot of lootas.
It's only a wild guess, but why not get a bunch of battlewagons with cannons and shoot all the cannons at it?
I find bikes with their twin linked shooting have a chance to cause a wound and a grounding test, then charging him if he gets grounded is the best way to deal with him.
lootas and bikes cost the same points.
Lets say you have 10 lootas shooting, you average 20 shots, needing 6s lets say you hit 3 times. Score 3 wounds. 3++ rerolling 1s made to a 2++ rerolling 1s with grimoire maybe is hard to get through. Changes are your not scoring a wound.
Lets say you have 10 bikes shooting, you have 30 shots that are twin linked. You hit 10 times, you score 5 wounds. 3++ rerolling 1s made to a 2++ rerolling 1s with grimoire maybe is hard to get through, with 5 wounds though you might make them re-roll 1-2 dice so you have a better shot
Of course there is the whole bikes have an 18" range and dakkaguns have a 48" range or whatever issue too. Bikes can move 12" and shoot, so your threat is 30" but you may not be able to shoot first turn.
really you just need volume of fire to down fateweaver, then try and assault it it if you can that same assault phase. Out of all ork units bikes are the best bang for their points in volume of fire on snap shots(yay twin linked)
blaktoof wrote: really you just need volume of fire to down fateweaver, then try and assault it it if you can that same assault phase. Out of all ork units bikes are the best bang for their points in volume of fire on snap shots(yay twin linked)
I agree bikes are the best bet, but Fateweaver kill's bikes with such ease I'm not loving them as an option. You aren't going to ground him, because of his reroll.
I guess the answer is to just ignore him, and try to survive him like I've been doing. A dakkajet can do work, but you need a couple to kill him (maybe not even then), so it is too many points to invest.
Its basically a rewrite of the Ork Codex which fixes many issues we have with the current dex,as well as open up a ton more options for army building. Of course its to use in friendly games with opponent consent.
I just tought to bring it for those that might have missed it.
Wow that was the single greatest thing I've ever read. Essentially the exact opposite of Atlas Shrugged.
koooaei wrote: I think he means total of 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault and a Wraithknight. Each of them took a round to kill.
Oh. Gotcha.
I've been having increasing problems with Fateweavers recently. Does anyone have tips for killing a Fateweaver? Once in a while I can get one with lootas, but usually they can survive alot of lootas.
Shoot him out of the sky and then assault him. Pray for 2's lol
koooaei wrote: I think he means total of 2 Stormsurges, 1 Vault and a Wraithknight. Each of them took a round to kill.
Oh. Gotcha.
I've been having increasing problems with Fateweavers recently. Does anyone have tips for killing a Fateweaver? Once in a while I can get one with lootas, but usually they can survive alot of lootas.
Shoot him out of the sky and then assault him. Pray for 2's lol
This really is the best option, but it is also important to note that it may be easier to simply eliminate all of his support (if he is being grimoired) or all other sources of warp charges, as when flying psychic powers is the only offensive option he has.
Bikes def help to shoot him down with TL shots, if you have a lot of numbers, blanket key areas to restrict his movement. But largely, I have found the best solution is to ignore him and go for the meat.
I've had decent success stripping wounds off Fatey with TL Rokkits on my Deffkoptas. That being said I run an unconventional list with 14 Deffkoptas. XD
I usually just shoot rokkits at him til I cause a wound and hope he fails his 2 grounding checks. Haha. Once he's on the ground, he stays there.
He's got a 1/9 chance of failing a grounding test (because of his reroll). That means he gets grounded every other game. It isn't worth it to count on grounding him. You're going to have to kill him in the sky.
So I've been wondering about the viability of running a MA warboss with normal boyz. It prevents them from running, which hurts the waaagh! ability, but I usually put my warboss's squad in a battlewagon anyway. Basically, is losing the ability to run worth giving my warboss a 2+ save?
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I've been wondering about the viability of running a MA warboss with normal boyz. It prevents them from running, which hurts the waaagh! ability, but I usually put my warboss's squad in a battlewagon anyway. Basically, is losing the ability to run worth giving my warboss a 2+ save?
Generally speaking, I'd say yes. So long as that squad of boyz also includes a Painboy, it is a very good cost-efficient combo. I've used it several times in my lists and it is definitely one of the more synergistic combos in our codex. The lucky stikk megaboss can tank all the crazy low AP but high S6-7 shots out in the meta right now with relative impunity with the lucky stikk (with a little extra insurance thanks to FNP for any bad rolls) while the boyz soak all the AP2 weapons with their FNP when the megaboss LoS the wounds away. It forces your opponent to remaneuver if he wants to shoot around the Warboss, making it easier for you to plan the positioning of your other units, and is surprisingly resilient to anything that doesn't have ignores cover and strength D. As you mentioned, you absolutely need to be in a battlewagon to make it work, and if you really want to get around the lack of run+charge, there is the option of upgrading the battlewagon with a boarding plank to give that extra oomph to your charge.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I've been wondering about the viability of running a MA warboss with normal boyz. It prevents them from running, which hurts the waaagh! ability, but I usually put my warboss's squad in a battlewagon anyway. Basically, is losing the ability to run worth giving my warboss a 2+ save?
Here's a little trick I've pulled a couple times.
Take a few solo deffkoptas. If the warboss's squad needs to run, join him to a deffkopta. Average T5, durable with the 2+ up front, and a 4+ jink for anything AP2.
When I run a MA Boss in a Battlewagon, I usually have a 2nd wagon. That way if wagon 1 gets popped or imobilized I can transfer him to Wagon 2. You mainly need 1 turn moving inside a transport after that you can get where you need to.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I've been wondering about the viability of running a MA warboss with normal boyz. It prevents them from running, which hurts the waaagh! ability, but I usually put my warboss's squad in a battlewagon anyway. Basically, is losing the ability to run worth giving my warboss a 2+ save?
Are you giving him 'da lucky stikk? If you are, then it certainly is.
I typically put a DLSMA warboss in with a squad of 'eavy armored trukk boys. I then hide my trukk behind LOS blocking terrain for deployment, and on turn one, I flat out that sucker towards the enemy. In my experience, the 24" movement is fast enough to get me close to do damage even if they inevitably destroy my trukk. If you end up hitting anything in close combat with ap3 or worse, the warboss will tank the hits like a boss. If you risk getting challenged out by someone with AP 2, then have the boyz nob take the challenge. Or you can also do this on any challenge just to make sure your warboss soaks the hits for the rest of the squad. Having those extra power klaw attacks that hits at strength 10 means those trukk boyz just became a really hard hitting force.
Alternatively, while I give my guys the 4+ armor to help against explosions, you can skimp on it (your warboss is tanking most of the hits anyways). It saves you some points, and if you go up against grav a lot in your local metta, you now get the sweet satisfaction of watching your opponent trying to wound your super-tanking squad on 6s.
MA warboss does prevents running, which isn't so bad if your not waaaghing. You can also opt to move the warboss out of the unit and have the unit then no e and later run and assault. The warboss then can attempt a separate assault or join the following round. Which is okay, because usually the MA warboss is there to soak shots via DLS while a tough unit gets stuck in.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I've been wondering about the viability of running a MA warboss with normal boyz. It prevents them from running, which hurts the waaagh! ability, but I usually put my warboss's squad in a battlewagon anyway. Basically, is losing the ability to run worth giving my warboss a 2+ save?
Give him the supa-cybork body. You can now run and you gain FNP and Eternal warrior.
I've been having decent results with a squad of 30 boyz + bikerboss + bikerdok. Bikers make charge ranges pretty good and a dls boss can tank a lot of wounds when needed.
Glitcha wrote: Well Gencon is over. I had a lot of fun and played a lot of games. At the ITC event, I finished 4th with my Orks. I played on the top table in the last round. I screwed up my strategy in the 2nd turn and I knew I was going to lose, but it was a good game. Gave that tournament player a run for his money. Overall record was 3-1-1. Record is a new personal best for myself. Below is my list:
Great Waagh Band
Command- Big mek in mega armor with killsaw, KFF and Da lucky stick
Core
Waagh band - [ warboss in mega armor with da super cybork body, attack squig, and boss pole] [Grots] [5 nobz in 'ard armor. Boss nob with BP and another nob with power klaw in trukk] [ 15 man 'ard boy squad with nob BP and PK] [5x 10 boy squads with shootas, nob with PK and BP in trukk]
Aux
Battle wagon with Ram
8 man loota squad
CAD Pain boy
2x grots
Made some updates to this list after a recent game. All trukks now have Rokket launchas. Don't know why I did think about this but limited anti-armor in the list. I fought a guy over the weekend with this list. I played his ITC nurgle chaos marine/daemon list. I won 11-2 on kill points. Even tho I won, I still struggled with his vehicles to get to the marines inside. Now with rokkets involved this should make dealing with armor easier.
Also, he had a chaos spawn star. He didn't get the powers he need for psykic. I managed to kill the death star in 3 rounds of CC. Also took out his defiler as well. He charged it in and I hit back with a power klaw and killsaw.
rks. If the case was about a sanguinary priest riding with some sternguard in a droppod then he would not be able to join, 'cos they come from different factions, that treat each other as bb. But orks don't treat each otjer as bb. Just like you can't be a brother to yourself. Otherwise it just happens that you can't join a character to a unit with a 
army to show for it?
..you can turn these cival war era plastic mortar models into lobbas!. And you get 8 for less then $20 including shipping. they are PERFECT size for lobbas to.
Glad it worked out well for you!
