why does this thread mark grots as BELOW average!?!?!?!?!?!?! they should be green! DA BEST! they are listed as not to be taken in a competitive list?!?!? what is this??? seriously??
I have won a singles tournament with orks and my list contained 0 boyz. you know what it did contain? GROTS! not only did they back camp every game, securing countless objectives, but they also bought and dies bravely!
Tiny_Titan wrote: why does this thread mark grots as BELOW average!?!?!?!?!?!?! they should be green! DA BEST! they are listed as not to be taken in a competitive list?!?!? what is this??? seriously??
I have won a singles tournament with orks and my list contained 0 boyz. you know what it did contain? GROTS! not only did they back camp every game, securing countless objectives, but they also bought and dies bravely!
please. give them the green they deserve.
Gretchin are definitely a more points-efficient troop choice than Boyz. I almost always have some gretchin in my tourney armies. When I play Tryanids the one unit I wish I had from the ork codex is Gretchin. (If I had a 2nd choice it would be lobbas)
Gretchin are the best objective campers because you can't see them. I can't wait till my next tournament either. I'm bringing 3 gorkanauts, 2 morkanauts, 2 gretchin units, a big mek with fixxer uppers, and buzgobs stompa in 1850. Its going to be great.
I used to not take grots at all. I thought they were stupid units to have in my list. Now that my list requires them, i'm find how effective they can be. They are good for holding objectives, but they can also add that little extra fire power that you need to kill something.
Very true. The store around here has a ton of hills that only grots can hide behind so that's where I put the objective and they can't be shot even though people think they can XD
I love Gretchin so much. Such a great unit and the fact that the Runtherd's stick maakes whoever he is in a challenge with lose -1 attack is pretty clutch against Bloodthirsters.
cranect wrote: Gretchin are the best objective campers because you can't see them. I can't wait till my next tournament either. I'm bringing 3 gorkanauts, 2 morkanauts, 2 gretchin units, a big mek with fixxer uppers, and buzgobs stompa in 1850. Its going to be great.
You've got Eldar beat. So long as you don't run into BC with Grav or Imperial Knights, I think that list will serve you quite well. If I had the models I'd give something like that a try.
Ya I have all but the big mek stomps and buzgob but I was just waiting for an excuse. I have a lot of popular tau lists beat too. At the beef and wing gt I went 3-2 with the krushin krew and a gargantuan squiggoth stuffed with burnas XD I could have done better but I haven't had the necessary experience yet. I have a slight obsession with the orkanauts so I'm really hoping to make it work. I love the new krushin krew. You can get 9 attacks on the charge which is great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I like to make eldar nervous lol.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I love Gretchin so much. Such a great unit and the fact that the Runtherd's stick maakes whoever he is in a challenge with lose -1 attack is pretty clutch against Bloodthirsters.
I once used this exact tactic to save my megaboss and his MANz from an Avatar of Khaine. Just the idea of a bunch of grots being forced to charge a giant, flaming demigod is hilarious. I mean, they all died horribly, but it allowed my MANz to clean him up.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I love Gretchin so much. Such a great unit and the fact that the Runtherd's stick maakes whoever he is in a challenge with lose -1 attack is pretty clutch against Bloodthirsters.
I once used this exact tactic to save my megaboss and his MANz from an Avatar of Khaine. Just the idea of a bunch of grots being forced to charge a giant, flaming demigod is hilarious. I mean, they all died horribly, but it allowed my MANz to clean him up.
And dont forget the look on your opponents face when he realizes what is happening. Priceless every time.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: I love Gretchin so much. Such a great unit and the fact that the Runtherd's stick maakes whoever he is in a challenge with lose -1 attack is pretty clutch against Bloodthirsters.
I once used this exact tactic to save my megaboss and his MANz from an Avatar of Khaine. Just the idea of a bunch of grots being forced to charge a giant, flaming demigod is hilarious. I mean, they all died horribly, but it allowed my MANz to clean him up.
And dont forget the look on your opponents face when he realizes what is happening. Priceless every time.
I do need another squad of grots. They're surprising little gits when you need them to be since a lot of people ignore them entirely. They actually got me a victory point by killing a DE warlord once. Granted, he only had one wound left, but it was still funny to see my grots shoot a warlord to death.
I've never had grots do ANY damage in melee. I'm playing since 5-th and have grots in most of my lists.
Though, i've had them shooting down a flying tzeench DP. He had 2 wounds left. BAM - grotblasta to the face, fails save, drops to the ground, takes a wound, fails save.
koooaei wrote: I've never had grots do ANY damage in melee. I'm playing since 5-th and have grots in most of my lists.
Though, i've had them shooting down a flying tzeench DP. He had 2 wounds left. BAM - grotblasta to the face, fails save, drops to the ground, takes a wound, fails save.
I've had a squad of 10 grots in an ork horde formation (one that gives HoW on rolled charge range over 10"). The grots killed 2 marines with the str 2 HoW hits, priceless...
I always take a couple of squads, be them bubble wrap, mobile cover saves or manipulating your opponents deepstrike, not to mention camping objective out of LoS
Moolet wrote: I've had a squad of 10 grots in an ork horde formation (one that gives HoW on rolled charge range over 10"). The grots killed 2 marines with the str 2 HoW hits, priceless...
I always take a couple of squads, be them bubble wrap, mobile cover saves or manipulating your opponents deepstrike, not to mention camping objective out of LoS
I know it's not a grot story, but the free HoW from the Waaagh! Band Detachment reminded me of my last RTT last weekend. I had 2 full man squads of boyz and 3 Nobs assault a 5-wound remaining Stormsurge. The 15 b2b Ork Boyz caused 5 HOW wounds and he failed 4 of them. The remaining wound got chipped away from the 3 Nobz at I3. Priceless when HoW hits and 15 attacks from Nobz killed a Stormsurge even before he swung! Hahaha. (The dice gods were not on his side!)
I once killed an invisible belakor with a morkanaut and deff dread in the gw dread mob with HoW. Both got 3 hits and I did 6 wounds XD not quite as amazing but still hilarious.
Moolet wrote: I've had a squad of 10 grots in an ork horde formation (one that gives HoW on rolled charge range over 10"). The grots killed 2 marines with the str 2 HoW hits, priceless...
I always take a couple of squads, be them bubble wrap, mobile cover saves or manipulating your opponents deepstrike, not to mention camping objective out of LoS
I once had a squad of grots kill lysander in assault. He was wounded, because he had just killed my Stompa in Assault, and the gretchin took 1 wound off in shooting, and the final wound in assault.
koooaei wrote: I've never had grots do ANY damage in melee. I'm playing since 5-th and have grots in most of my lists.
Though, i've had them shooting down a flying tzeench DP. He had 2 wounds left. BAM - grotblasta to the face, fails save, drops to the ground, takes a wound, fails save.
my grots just a few weeks ago (IN A TOURNAMENT) wiped out a squad of tomb blades who had 3+ re rollable save! haha. without the grots they would have scored a mealstrom objective AND got line breaker.
Automatically Appended Next Post: anyway, back to the point, can someone please change grots in the OP to green?
I really like large grot blobs for shooting, they can really pile on the pain, as it were.
My favorite use of them is to take a small squad, walk right up to an elite unit and not charge them. It's great to watch the opponent's face who thought the grots were about to charge, and then they realize they have to waste the entire next turn killing them.
2 more weeks til Nova and I'm fleshing out my Nova list. I have 3 armies fully painted. Salamanders Gladius (which would be played as White Scars... obviously [facepalm], Wolfstar with 4 IPs, Azreal, Command Squad, etc, and Waaagh-Band Detachment.
Of course, I'm running the Waaagh-Band!!! Funny enough, I actually think it's the best list to run at Nova out of the 3 lists. I'm going to take a lot of pictures and type up a few short battle reports when I get back. I'll also post my list up when it's closer to Nova. Gotta keep it a secret so the dirty Spees Mureens don't tailor to beat Orks LUL
Edit: Any Orks players going to Nova? I'll be the one with the Rainbow Orks
Saythings wrote: 2 more weeks til Nova and I'm fleshing out my Nova list. I have 3 armies fully painted. Salamanders Gladius (which would be played as White Scars... obviously [facepalm], Wolfstar with 4 IPs, Azreal, Command Squad, etc, and Waaagh-Band Detachment.
Of course, I'm running the Waaagh-Band!!! Funny enough, I actually think it's the best list to run at Nova out of the 3 lists. I'm going to take a lot of pictures and type up a few short battle reports when I get back. I'll also post my list up when it's closer to Nova. Gotta keep it a secret so the dirty Spees Mureens don't tailor to beat Orks LUL
I love the NOVA missions. Honestly, I think they are the best out there. I'm not as big of a fan of the NOVAFAQ. Super Powered invis and 2+ reroll encourage deathstars. If I wanted to design my ideal system, I'd start with Community Comp army Comp, the Nova missions, and the ITC FAQ.
I won an RTT with a trukk boy list a while back using the NOVA missions. However, having practiced the NOVA missions against some deathstar armies (Like invisible wolfstar, some screamer star summoning lists, Seer Council, even a draigo based Centstar) I'm not really sure I have the tools to compete with top tier lists. I beat Wolfstar and 2 out of 3 screamer star lists I played, but that was because my opponent made serious tactical errors. I'd love to hear you strategic approach to such games.
Regarding the MA/DLS warboss.. the best retinue for him seems to be boyz in a trukk/wagon or 30 boyz on foot soaking up wounds but not running?
I have tried sticking him with manz.. and it just isn't worth it. He doesn't add something they don't have, and the concentration of dying to ap 2 weapons makes it easy on my opponent to concentrate appropriate fire. But I dismissed running the MA/DLS warboss on foot with boyz because no running.
@tag8833, I actually don't mind going turn by turn against a single star list. I actually have another MSU in my list to spread on every objective and have 10+ more units to deny most of his end game. I have over 30 MSU though. I'm being vague, mostly, because I want to keep the list on the hush until Nova. Just.. in.. case.. haha
@Sal4ma4nd3r, I've been having a lot of success with MA/DLS Boss sitting with Artillery; he protects our T7, AP2 source of shots, while giving the unit more mobility. Also, you can detach him and throw him in some boyz that are trying to slingshot him into combat without running.
The armor list worked well. The poor eldar and space Marines got creamed. Still had 2 morkanauts and a stompa by the end. Killed the D cannons, sword and board knight, and the grav cents. After that it was all clean up duty.
I've been playing lots of Kan Wall these last 2 weeks. Killa Kans are in such a sad state these days. They lack range, they lack firepower, they lack mobility, they lack survivability. In almost every game the Killa Kans have been the last thing to die because they are the least threatening part of my lists.
The one neat thing about playing with all 9 of my Killa Kans on the table is that every game I've won (which hasn't been all that many) has been won by the Killa Kans because their contributions come so late and they are such a low target priority.
Ahh I was running the great wall of orkanauts. The most I lost was against eldar and space marine allies and I lost 3 gorkanauts and almost the rest but I killed everything that could scratch the naughts and had control of the table because if he went near and tried to get behind me he got smashed. The other games were against varying levels of IG and they had even more problems and got at most 1 naught.
tag8833 wrote: I've been playing lots of Kan Wall these last 2 weeks. Killa Kans are in such a sad state these days. They lack range, they lack firepower, they lack mobility, they lack survivability. In almost every game the Killa Kans have been the last thing to die because they are the least threatening part of my lists.
The one neat thing about playing with all 9 of my Killa Kans on the table is that every game I've won (which hasn't been all that many) has been won by the Killa Kans because their contributions come so late and they are such a low target priority.
Ive had decent results running all my Kanz as having Grotzookas. Spamming Str 6 blasts puts on the hurt and can catch people off guard with their firepower. Kanz suffer from a multitude of issues but they are decently well equipped to murder higher toughness infantry like bikers. I just tend to march them up a flank and avoid the center of the battlefield.
Incidentally my favorite Kan experience was seeing 5 Kanz beat up a Daemon Prince in CC over the course of 5 rounds of combat.
I went to an event this weekend with the list i've been running. My games we fairly well. I had to drop out of the event due to work call But the two rounds i played were very good. Turn 3 looked to be the magic turn in each game. Turn 1 I made the forward rush with little bit of shooting. Turn 2 I started to see some damage on my end, but that's alright I was already where I wanted to be. Turn 3 Massive amounts of damage to my opponent's army.
First round was against tau gun line. I took his tide way and used it against him. I also killed his stormsurge in CC. These guys have a lot of shots, but being T6 makes them vulnerable to small arms fire. I managed to cut his defense line and cut it in half and box in part of it. My opponent gave up at turn 3. He lost half his army and the Stormsurge and I was sitting on all 3 of the objectives. Also had line breaker and slay the warlord.
Second round, we had a crazy mission from the new Deathwatch box. you got 2 turns and then you redeploy and trade deployment zones. This was hard for me. I played eldar and he deployed as far way as possible from me. Turn 2 was when things started to get interesting. I killed as much as I could, but a lost a lot of my trukks. Since we were playing kill points it really hurt me. I was able to pull a draw in the end, but It was pretty bad. The redployment would have hurt my position on the table, but I would have him cornered on the redployment. We didn't have enough time to do the redployment.
Any advice on how to protect lootas? Is just loading them in a trukk enough if they're parked on a backfield objective or are they going to get shredded anyway? Would an aegis defence line work better?
Best way to keep lootas safe is to park them in ruins and/or having other threats on the board that pull target priority away from them. Most people tend to ignore Ork shooting units when they have Meganobz or Bikers getting into their face. If you REALLY want to keep them safe then either use an aegis line (and go to ground when shot at) or slap a Mega Armored Warboss in front of the unit with Da Lucky Stikk to reroll 2+ armor saves like a.....warboss. Void Shield can also work quite well. More lootas is also a good solution as "more dakka" is never the wrong answer.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Any advice on how to protect lootas? Is just loading them in a trukk enough if they're parked on a backfield objective or are they going to get shredded anyway? Would an aegis defence line work better?
Aegis degence line works great. Plus you can give them an ammo dump and now they re-roll 1's when shooting.
It sounds like ADL or MSU is the way to go, though with heavy support being so crowded and no formations w/ lootas (I think) MSU could be a challenge. Sure, you can use 1 slots on 15 of them, but that's 15 of them with no defensive capability whatsoever. Alternatively grabbing a max size loota squad seems okay if you want to fill up a blitz brigade battlewagon, but it seems better to fill those w/ melee units for the t2 charge.
gnome_idea_what wrote: It sounds like ADL or MSU is the way to go, though with heavy support being so crowded and no formations w/ lootas (I think) MSU could be a challenge. Sure, you can use 1 slots on 15 of them, but that's 15 of them with no defensive capability whatsoever. Alternatively grabbing a max size loota squad seems okay if you want to fill up a blitz brigade battlewagon, but it seems better to fill those w/ melee units for the t2 charge.
My advice is to never run a squad of 15 lootas unless attaching a MA character. The problem is leadership and mob rule. If you throw a single Mek in there your odds of passing mob rule increase significantly.
gnome_idea_what wrote: It sounds like ADL or MSU is the way to go, though with heavy support being so crowded and no formations w/ lootas (I think) MSU could be a challenge. Sure, you can use 1 slots on 15 of them, but that's 15 of them with no defensive capability whatsoever. Alternatively grabbing a max size loota squad seems okay if you want to fill up a blitz brigade battlewagon, but it seems better to fill those w/ melee units for the t2 charge.
I used to run 15 in a BW times 3 on a Landing Pad. 45 Lootas targeting anything on the board!
koooaei wrote: I've recently played bullyboyz in gunwagons+bikerboss and koptas vs dog cabal+Kharn and Cypher. If anyone's interested, i can make a short batrep.
Put them in some 4+ ruins, and don't be shy about going to ground for a nice 3+ cover save- orks care the least about snap-firing. Take a mek to give them a character for mob rule tests. That keeps them pretty save from standard fire, and if anything dedicates enough fire to kill all of them, that's fire they aren't using on your assault units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: All in all, gunwagons proved to be great. The only problem is heavy support. I do need lobbas. So, the only way to run 3 squadrons of 2 gunwagons is to get 2-d cad. Or maybe allied orks. But iirc we can't get allies that are also orks. Maybe i'm wrong? 2-d cad will require too many points and i wouldn't be able to make a mini-deffkopta star.
Seriously, we're Orks. Of all the armies, I feel like we'd be able to do the best with an Unbound force meant to just wipe the other guys (or wipe them off the control points, anyways).
Seriously, we're Orks. Of all the armies, I feel like we'd be able to do the best with an Unbound force meant to just wipe the other guys (or wipe them off the control points, anyways).
I totally agree and preached that for a long time in the beginning but got continually shut down by just about everyone :(
Orks should be allowed to play unbound at all times as part of an army-wide special rule. Would solve a lot of issues!!!
The problem with unbound is that we'll bring an extra gun wagon and someone will bring broken nonsense. I'd prefer to get it another way tbh. Maybe ally in orks from ghaz detachment. Is it possible?
Depends on the size. With the discount stompa you can fit it, 3 gorkanauts and 2 morkanauts and the 2 gretchin squads with a big mek in 1850 points. At 2000 you can do a barebones dread mob and krushin krew.
I just figure, there's gotta be a limit to how much anti-armour firepower the enemy can put on the field at once. Unlike anti-infantry, AV tends to be single-target, yes?
Problem with dreads is they're slow, AV 12 doesn't mean much these days, and really, what is it going to do? Against infantry they're fantastic- if they can get there. They only walk 6', and using cover is dangerous since it can immobilize itself, and unlike Dreadnoughts who can still fire, the Deffdread's shooting is a joke. Plus, boyz are more mobile, have transport options, and kill most infantry in assault already.
Speaking of Dreadnoughts, these things are one of the toughest things for orks to take down since we can't hit its rear armor, and it's a vehicle that hits back. But don't even think about some awesome Dreadfights- DeffDreads are still I2, meaning any Marine dread is going to tear it to pieces before it can do anything.
Dreadspam doesn't really work, either, again because they're so slow and AV 12 really isn't that scary. Heck, even as an ork player I'm not that scared of AV 12 at range. This thing doesn't get any saves, so mass s6 shots will make short work of it, and again, using cover to get a save is risky business due to immobilization results.
In short, Deffdreads are the coolest model in the codex, but also probably the absolute worst. It can't get to combat, it's paper-thin, and it's pretty much guaranteed to die against a real Dread.
Mega-armor is actually pretty good. MANz are some of my favorite units, and they always do work. The Bullyboyz formation is fantastic because it first of all divides them up (which you should do anyway) to keep massed AP2 away from them, makes them fearless, and adds +1 to their WS. I'd say a bunch of meganobz isn't a terrible idea as long as you give them battlewagons, which they can take as dedicated transports anyway. Get two CADS going and you can have six squads of meganobz, and fill up the troops with some minimum boyz squads or gretchin. Hell, put the Bullyboyz in five battlewagons, take the blitz brigade, and suddenly you have 5 squads of fearless, WS5, meganobz that are more than halfway across the table on turn 1.
Actually, now I want to try this- it sounds hilarious.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Mega-armor is actually pretty good. MANz are some of my favorite units, and they always do work. The Bullyboyz formation is fantastic because it first of all divides them up (which you should do anyway) to keep massed AP2 away from them, makes them fearless, and adds +1 to their WS. I'd say a bunch of meganobz isn't a terrible idea as long as you give them battlewagons, which they can take as dedicated transports anyway. Get two CADS going and you can have six squads of meganobz, and fill up the troops with some minimum boyz squads or gretchin. Hell, put the Bullyboyz in five battlewagons, take the blitz brigade, and suddenly you have 5 squads of fearless, WS5, meganobz that are more than halfway across the table on turn 1.
Actually, now I want to try this- it sounds hilarious.
I want to try it too...but the $500 price tag for the models is a bit steep for my taste.
The trick is to not think about it, and build it up slowly over time. I have roughly half the models to try that, and I'm planning on running a blitz brigade at some point, so this idea might just naturally come together over time.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Mega-armor is actually pretty good. MANz are some of my favorite units, and they always do work. The Bullyboyz formation is fantastic because it first of all divides them up (which you should do anyway) to keep massed AP2 away from them, makes them fearless, and adds +1 to their WS. I'd say a bunch of meganobz isn't a terrible idea as long as you give them battlewagons, which they can take as dedicated transports anyway. Get two CADS going and you can have six squads of meganobz, and fill up the troops with some minimum boyz squads or gretchin. Hell, put the Bullyboyz in five battlewagons, take the blitz brigade, and suddenly you have 5 squads of fearless, WS5, meganobz that are more than halfway across the table on turn 1.
Actually, now I want to try this- it sounds hilarious.
I want to try it too...but the $500 price tag for the models is a bit steep for my taste.
You're playing orks, if you don't care so much about official GW models you can just scratchbuild some armor for the meganobs and loot (cheaper) tanks from some other faction to turn into battlewagons.
Also, this strategy is a really good example of target saturation: they can't possibly have enough anti-AV14 to pop the transports, then they (probably, I haven't calculated this one) don't have enough AP2. Target saturation is something that doesn't usually work in 40k though, but this might just work...
What about other 'silly' comps? Full Mega armour, perhaps? There's more options for it now than there were before.
Or nothing but Warbosses.
Grot Artillery unit, with a ridiculous number of Big Gunz?
A silly comp... How about putting some serious dakka squads into warkopta transports to make a flying gunship fleet? Can't imagine they would last long, but could be fun
If you aren't too keen on scratchbuilding the armor for Meganobz, grab some terminators and ork'em up. They look pretty good if you swap on klaws, add a sleavless nob arm and throw some random bits on
Hey, so there aren't forgeworld units in the breakdown at the beginning, but I'd like to know what people think about Battle Wagons vs Gun Wagons
JimOnMars wrote: If you want to go as fluffy as all get-out, put the lootas in a looted wagon.
A little better than a trukk and only 7 more points. Plus you can take a killkannon.
Only downsides is it takes 2 heavy slots, so you need to play multiple cads.
I find it too risky, especially since if you roll a 1 for "Don't Press Dat", not only do you move closer to the enemy but flatting out means you miss out on a turn of shooting. You can model any Ork vehicle to be looted anyhow, I find a gunwagon or battlewagon to be more suitable for Lootas.
SirSweetroll wrote: If you aren't too keen on scratchbuilding the armor for Meganobz, grab some terminators and ork'em up. They look pretty good if you swap on klaws, add a sleavless nob arm and throw some random bits on
Hey, so there aren't forgeworld units in the breakdown at the beginning, but I'd like to know what people think about Battle Wagons vs Gun Wagons
I love Gun Wagons as they are a very cost efficient transport. They totally blow battlewagons out of the water IMO.
SirSweetroll wrote: If you aren't too keen on scratchbuilding the armor for Meganobz, grab some terminators and ork'em up. They look pretty good if you swap on klaws, add a sleavless nob arm and throw some random bits on
Hey, so there aren't forgeworld units in the breakdown at the beginning, but I'd like to know what people think about Battle Wagons vs Gun Wagons
Battle wagon vs gun wagon:
It all depends on what you plan to do with it. If you have a warboss+ pain boy and some nobs in a list, I'd go gun wagon. If you are running massive blob of 'ard boyz with warboss+ painboy, i'd go battle wagon.
If people are looking for cheap meganobz pick up some of those new AOS brutes and slap a power klaw and a gun on them and you are good to go
The already look like 2ed Meganobz so most of the work is done for you (unless you want to do more then let you inner mek go wild) and they are significantly cheaper then buying a box of Meganobz.
I was thinking of building a Snakebite detachment for my warband.
I really like the AOS bonesplitter models especially the boarboyz (10 for $60 Cad!!!!! )
I am thinking of taking Zhadsnark and 30-45 bikes converted as Bonesplitter Cy-Boar as a cheap/fluffy/fun modelling project. I wish I could take mek/big guns though as I would model them as squig catapults. Fear the buzzer squigs MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
hippyjr wrote: A silly comp... How about putting some serious dakka squads into warkopta transports to make a flying gunship fleet? Can't imagine they would last long, but could be fun
This sounds fun. Maybe not at all practical but surprising to your opponent and awesome looking. You can play DE with your Orks!
Side note: Warkpotas seem pretty weak, what are you supposed to use them for? They can get a rattler cannon, move really fast, and hold a few orks but they it sounds like just get shredded by anything that looks at them. AV10 and 2HP on a 65-pt transport hurts.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Mega-armor is actually pretty good. MANz are some of my favorite units, and they always do work. The Bullyboyz formation is fantastic because it first of all divides them up (which you should do anyway) to keep massed AP2 away from them, makes them fearless, and adds +1 to their WS. I'd say a bunch of meganobz isn't a terrible idea as long as you give them battlewagons, which they can take as dedicated transports anyway. Get two CADS going and you can have six squads of meganobz, and fill up the troops with some minimum boyz squads or gretchin. Hell, put the Bullyboyz in five battlewagons, take the blitz brigade, and suddenly you have 5 squads of fearless, WS5, meganobz that are more than halfway across the table on turn 1.
Actually, now I want to try this- it sounds hilarious.
1775, Blitz Brigade with Rams, And Two (two) Bully Boyz formations. No Warboss, so I guess you'd have to pick a Boss Nob. Five squads of fearless meganobz in scouting wagonz and one squad to muck about in the back on an objective.
hippyjr wrote: A silly comp... How about putting some serious dakka squads into warkopta transports to make a flying gunship fleet? Can't imagine they would last long, but could be fun
This sounds fun. Maybe not at all practical but surprising to your opponent and awesome looking. You can play DE with your Orks!
Side note: Warkpotas seem pretty weak, what are you supposed to use them for? They can get a rattler cannon, move really fast, and hold a few orks but they it sounds like just get shredded by anything that looks at them. AV10 and 2HP on a 65-pt transport hurts.
I've built one but almost never use it. The additional 30 points is not worth the jink save. The more since you get only 2 HP and with the new FAQ your units have to snap-shot after jinking.
Just noticed something about Warkoptas, and it looks like the plot thickens.
In the FW update for DFTS, Warkoptas got a combat role of attack fighter and (albeit terrible) pursuit and agility scores. But it isn't a flyer. The document does have other non-flyers, and marks them with an asterisk noting: "These ground vehicles, Drop Pods or Skimmers may transition into Zooming Flyers in a temporary fashion. They gain the benefits of Agility, Pursuit and Combat
Roles only while operating as Zooming Flyers. If they exit the board into Ongoing Reserves as Zooming Flyers, they may be targeted during the Dogfight phase, but
do not count for determining Air Superiority." The Warkopta isn't marked though.
The way I see it, this could go one of two ways. Either the Warkopta got on the list by mistake, and is as bad as ever, or it can be used as a flyer. Minor buff from FW? Hopefully this wills see some errata so that it makes sense soon.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Just noticed something about Warkoptas, and it looks like the plot thickens.
In the FW update for DFTS, Warkoptas got a combat role of attack fighter and (albeit terrible) pursuit and agility scores. But it isn't a flyer. The document does have other non-flyers, and marks them with an asterisk noting: "These ground vehicles, Drop Pods or Skimmers may transition into Zooming Flyers in a temporary fashion. They gain the benefits of Agility, Pursuit and Combat
Roles only while operating as Zooming Flyers. If they exit the board into Ongoing Reserves as Zooming Flyers, they may be targeted during the Dogfight phase, but
do not count for determining Air Superiority." The Warkopta isn't marked though.
The way I see it, this could go one of two ways. Either the Warkopta got on the list by mistake, and is as bad as ever, or it can be used as a flyer. Minor buff from FW? Hopefully this wills see some errata so that it makes sense soon.
Ah, my mistake! When I found out that warkoptas were in the DFTS update I immediately assumed they had become flyers (as they should, IMO). The gunship list i suggested may be a tad awful atm
So I recently (finally) finished a squad of 5 deffkoptas. I've only been using them so far as single models that go around grabbing objectives, absorbing overwatch, and just being annoying in general, but with their squad at full, they can actually take a casualty without taking a leadship test.
I want to know how to effectively run a squad of 5. I was thinking of outflanking so I could get at the rear armor of whatever tanks they have sitting in the rear, and just being a problem behind the lines. I usually hide my deffkoptas for a turn, anyway, since scouting them usually ends up getting my opponent first blood. So is outflanking with them a good idea or no?
I mentioned about 2 weeks ago that I was coming up with a list idea I didn't want to talk about until after Nova. Well that came and past and I ended up going 3-1 in the placement games. I actually went 3-0 and turned a few heads at Nova. It was glorious. But I was obliterated by a Tau player on the 4th round. The kicker is the game before (3rd round) I beat another Tau player. 2 Tau armies back to back in order to get Top16 was rough. I ended up placing 41th or 42th (out of 164) I believe. I had a blast.
Quick list run through:
Great Waagh Detachment (Ghaz Supplement)
2 Cores of Waaagh Bands:
12x10 Boyz - Naked
2x11 Gretchin - Naked
2x3 Nobz - Naked
2 Warbosses in Mega Armour, Warlord with Da Finkin Kap, other with the Lucky Stikk
2x4 Kustom Mega Cannon (S:8, AP2, Small Blast, Gets Hot)
4 Extra Gretchin in 1, and 5 Extra Gretchin in another (Big Game Hunter Target for Secondaries)
2 Solo Meks added in here for LD7 when the Bosses left
14 Solo Deffkoptas.
The list was SO much fun to run and my opponents had even more fun playing against it. The best part was when the enemy killed over 140 out of the 199 models and that look on their face when they noticed they lost.
The Deffkoptas almost always outflanked unless I need them to Scout aggressively turn1, like Relic, or against Gladius. They usually take whatever shots they can and stay out of LOS of most things and just survive until late game for objective grabs.
The MegaArmoured Bosses just sat and moved 6" forward tanking and protecting the only "reliable" source of AP2 in the codex. With SnP, I had a lot of fun moving forward aggressively with T7 until the last moment where he attaches to a surviving Boyz squad and sling shots into combat.
The artillery was a little underwhelming but I wanted some AP2 for Gladius armies. But the deffkoptas... they were gold. If you didn't have target lock, I won. This means Super Heavies and Tau included. The 3rd round Tau didn't have the target lock required to handle the 34 MSU I was bringing and it was a good matchup (Relic). The 4th round Tau just seemed to have the perfect amount of fire power/target lock to kill all of my Deffkoptas.
I'll type short version Battle reports when I get a few moments tomorrow. But I wanted to start typing some of my experiences at this year's Nova.
My list definitely plays off the meta and can take on a lot of the top lists even at Nova, it just gets handled by Target Lock Tau - as does most armies without Psychic Deathstars.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I recently (finally) finished a squad of 5 deffkoptas. I've only been using them so far as single models that go around grabbing objectives, absorbing overwatch, and just being annoying in general, but with their squad at full, they can actually take a casualty without taking a leadship test.
I want to know how to effectively run a squad of 5. I was thinking of outflanking so I could get at the rear armor of whatever tanks they have sitting in the rear, and just being a problem behind the lines. I usually hide my deffkoptas for a turn, anyway, since scouting them usually ends up getting my opponent first blood. So is outflanking with them a good idea or no?
I hate reserving them because they have a 1/3 chance of not coming in on turn 2.
Better to use scout and get 24" movement and full firing on turn 1, even if that means you get side armor instead of rear. With 24" range means you can pick any target you want turn 1.
Favorite thing of all is doubling out t4 multi-wounders. Crisis suits are juicy, juicy fruit for defkoptas.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I recently (finally) finished a squad of 5 deffkoptas. I've only been using them so far as single models that go around grabbing objectives, absorbing overwatch, and just being annoying in general, but with their squad at full, they can actually take a casualty without taking a leadship test.
I want to know how to effectively run a squad of 5. I was thinking of outflanking so I could get at the rear armor of whatever tanks they have sitting in the rear, and just being a problem behind the lines. I usually hide my deffkoptas for a turn, anyway, since scouting them usually ends up getting my opponent first blood. So is outflanking with them a good idea or no?
Great Waagh Detachment (Ghaz Supplement)
2 Cores of Waaagh Bands:
12x10 Boyz - Naked
2x11 Gretchin - Naked
2x3 Nobz - Naked
2 Warbosses in Mega Armour, Warlord with Da Finkin Kap, other with the Lucky Stikk
2x4 Kustom Mega Cannon (S:8, AP2, Small Blast, Gets Hot)
4 Extra Gretchin in 1, and 5 Extra Gretchin in another (Big Game Hunter Target for Secondaries)
2 Solo Meks added in here for LD7 when the Bosses left
I have had some success with the orkanauts but I have yet to fight an actual SM army. I have beaten eldar with centurions and tigerius in a pod, a few different tau forces, some ad mech not war convo and dark eldar. That's all I have played against so far. The one tau list I played and lost to had a ton of deep striking melta specifically because of my list XD it did really well but it was still a close game. There is really only a few SM players around here and schedules haven't lined up.
Great Waagh Detachment (Ghaz Supplement)
2 Cores of Waaagh Bands:
12x10 Boyz - Naked
2x11 Gretchin - Naked
2x3 Nobz - Naked
2 Warbosses in Mega Armour, Warlord with Da Finkin Kap, other with the Lucky Stikk
2x4 Kustom Mega Cannon (S:8, AP2, Small Blast, Gets Hot)
4 Extra Gretchin in 1, and 5 Extra Gretchin in another (Big Game Hunter Target for Secondaries)
2 Solo Meks added in here for LD7 when the Bosses left
14 Solo Deffkoptas.
The list was SO much fun to run
Man, that's awesome. Extreme msu ork style!
MSU Deffkoptas are quite awesome but its having the army slots to field enough of them that is the biggest challenge. Its good to see that the Ghaz Decurion was able to be used for something other than a Ghazz star.
That being said seeing this made me remember that the Great Waaagh Band is a thing and the rage I felt for how shoddy the rules are. I am still blown away with how lazy the update was and its mind blowing how they could make the detachment rules and the core section rules for that detachment the same fething thing. Of course it is a rehash of the same lackluster HoW rules found in most of the Ork detachments that nobody really wanted and doesn't do much to help resolve the glaring weaknesses of the Ork codex. I try to be positive about the Ork codex and make some of the weaker stuff work (see my love of Flash Gitz and Dakkajets) but my god this supplement update makes me angry
@Waaargh, the naked boys are great. Unfortunately, the +2 to Mod Rules makes them auto run if they fail the initial morale check, but I was okay with that.
On average I was losing 30-50 boyz a turn but it doesn't matter. They are simply targets for my enemy to shoot. If they don't kill boyz, they get into combat Turn2 on almost every game scenario with the Waaagh every turn. It's a super weird list to play but it extremely satisfying to use (as long as you don't mind ending on Turn4 every game). Out of the 7 games I played. we only got to Turn4 except one against Eldar. We ended it on Turn6.
The deffkoptas being able to spam via Auxiliary is the only reason I'm running double Cores but without the 120 as my backbone the list will fall apart. Numbers is what I need to distract my enemy while the Deffkoptas survive until end game. The only time I rolled Fearless (Ork WL Trait #1) was Round 7. So to give you an idea on how much the LD7 morale checks affected me, I won 4 out of 6 of my games without fearless. I only rolled Fearless against the Eldar which I lost due to a lack of Obsec against Scats that went 2nd.
So I was looking at the Big Trakk entry, they really don't look too bad as transports/gunboats. 70 pts nets you 6 big shootas without losing transport space, two of which are fired at BS3 (not too impressive but hey, its a plus) on a AV12 frame, up to 3 in a squadron.
Could also take Big Zzappas and such, you lose transport space but take with a small squad of lootas maybe?
I'm not sure how viable it would be, but taking a wall of Orky Vehicles sounds like it could be fun
@SirSweetroll Dunno about using them as transports, but that Supa-kannon looks awfully fun. Somewhat overcosted but fun.
If you were going take them as transports then put some tankbustas in there or something, slap a supa-skorcha on for that s6 ap3 goodness and put it in front of your footsloggers. Only +10 pts and halved transport capacity doesn't seem that bad for a MEQ-melter. Also works on a Loota bus to kill infiltrators and podded/portaled in troops (if they don't just immediately blow up the vehicle, which is fairly likely on second thought).
The big trakk is a really versatile chassis, and I'm sure that there are better uses for it that I haven't thought of.
@gnome_idea_what Super versatile, and that Supa-Kannon looks like tons of fun, but youd have to play a shooty army if you brought it. Wouldn't want to whipe your entire front line with it!
Yeah the supa-scorcha/tankbustas seem like a nice combo as well, only issue is there would have to be a LOT of target saturation to get that thing close enough to anything with a 3+
(Quick rules question, It comes with armor plates base, but I cant seem to find what that does exactly.)
About armor plates: I think they either meant "extra armor" (turns crew stunned into shaken) or 'eavy armor (improves front and side armor by +1). Probably the former. I looked through both the 7e and 6e BRBs, the updated dreadmob list, and IA8 and can't find it.
gnome_idea_what wrote: @Tibs Ironblood what do you put in the gunwagons? Just wondering about how to use them best.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also what do people think about the Wazmob formation? Is it enough of a benefit to make ork planes usable?
Usually its Ghazys bully boyz as they just manage to fit in the capacity 10 gun wagon. Beyond that I have put lootas in them before for a mobile armored bunker. Tankbustas have also been used.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also since 42 of them is close to their whole army you could grow a few deff dreads in and even lootas would probably do a number on them.
Green tide filled with klaws multi-charging as many of them as they can reach? Boring game, but it's probably 50/50 on who ends up with objectives.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Added: The klaw boss might be able to get 2 per combat, and the choppa boyz would get some wounds on them. Do they have ap in combat? If not, armored boyz in front with the painboy should save a lot of wounds.
So I have an 1850 tournament coming up soon, and I also have a conversion project involving a (relatively) large dinosaur toy that I intend to turn into a Gargantuan squiggoth.
I'm thinking of putting it into my list, just for the fun of it. Most forces at my local store aren't the hyper competitive type.
So my question for you guys: What sort of tactics would you think would work well with it? What things should I put in there. I'm thinking of having a big mek as my warlord with da finkin' cap, and a KFF inside of it for the added protection, and to make it a big task for a warlord kill. That would give me 19 slots to fill.
Also, where exactly are the (up to date) written rules for the thing? I've been having a hard time nailing those down.
Edit: Also a note of what my armies are usually like: I run at least two squads of trukk boyz, and some nob bikers. I've done small squads of storm boyz as backup melee and objective grabbers, and I run at least one backfield tractor cannon to hold backfield objectives. Most of my army is built on speed, so a hulking squiggoth would be different from my regular approach, to be sure.
I just ran in a tournament where I filled it with 19 burnas and the big mek with MFF. It was great. I ran the Krushin Krew with it and 2 units of gretchin and a big mek. It was actually half decent too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I dont even think I ever lost the squiggoth either. they are tough to kill with the 4+ invul.
Palleus wrote: So I have an 1850 tournament coming up soon, and I also have a conversion project involving a (relatively) large dinosaur toy that I intend to turn into a Gargantuan squiggoth.
I'm thinking of putting it into my list, just for the fun of it. Most forces at my local store aren't the hyper competitive type.
So my question for you guys: What sort of tactics would you think would work well with it? What things should I put in there. I'm thinking of having a big mek as my warlord with da finkin' cap, and a KFF inside of it for the added protection, and to make it a big task for a warlord kill. That would give me 19 slots to fill.
Also, where exactly are the (up to date) written rules for the thing? I've been having a hard time nailing those down.
Edit: Also a note of what my armies are usually like: I run at least two squads of trukk boyz, and some nob bikers. I've done small squads of storm boyz as backup melee and objective grabbers, and I run at least one backfield tractor cannon to hold backfield objectives. Most of my army is built on speed, so a hulking squiggoth would be different from my regular approach, to be sure.
It is listed under apocalypse so I am not sure if it can be taken in normal games, but I don't know much about that kind of thing. Theres still the big squig though.
Tibs: I read over 1d4chan tactics an awful lot, actually. But thanks for the link.
Some of the main things I need to know is
1: which book I need to find the exact rules for it.
2: Have there been any FAQs for it? The thing is a "Monstrous Transport" so seeing as that's not actually a standard 40k unit, there are some oddities with the rules.
Like: if it's worded like the big squig it's only an open topped transport for getting on/off and assaulting, so going strictly RAW, I can't actually shoot out of it. So bummer there unless there was some FAQ.
When can guys come out of the transport? If it's locked in combat, can anyone get out? If I can actually shoot out of it, can anyone shoot while it's in combat?
3: Strategies that have worked well for you, if you did use such a wonky unit . I like the idea of the burnas, Cranchet. Did you just keep them inside?
Ya they just chilled inside until I needed them to assault later. The gargantuan squiggoyh is in the apoc book. The newest apocalypse book has the big squiggoth but the gargantuan is in the old one. It specifically says that for the purposes of transport it counts as a super heavy open topped vehicle. So you can shoot out, embark, and disembark even if it is I combat assuming there is space. Note you cannot shoot the unit it is locked in with.
So I have only used it a few times but I either load it up with some good shooting like lootas or a close ranged unit like burnas, meganobs and such. Then you charge it up the field as fast as possible to deliver the guys inside and so that you can hit enemy vehicles and infantry. A knight with SDcc will kill it fast. It can take one without the D if you get the charge off for the 7 attacks. I liked the burnas inside because anything short of av11 or T8 avoided charging it since they would get fried. Its the only way I have found to make burnas useful really.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Try to roll for tactical genius so you can infiltrate the squiggoth. Dunno if it would work but a sneaky squiggoth would be hilarious.
This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read this week.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Try to roll for tactical genius so you can infiltrate the squiggoth. Dunno if it would work but a sneaky squiggoth would be hilarious.
This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read this week.
"Sir, there appears to be a building sized creature tiptoeing through our ranks... nobody seems to be noticing it."
If you're going to run the megasquiggoth and that many nobs you're going to have to be very careful around massed S8. You could use stormboy rush/lootas to pick off the most egregious offenders, but that might just not work. I don't have a lot of experience with the game, I'm just throwing suggestions out there. If it works though, you've got a distraction of titanic proportions.
One of the other local players told me after a recent game that I play my orks like marines? This gave me an idea for a list. Basically take the Codex:SM battle demy company and build it with orks. All boyz must have shootas and 'eavy armor. Below is my list
Command: Pain boy
Core: Warboss in mega armor and wyrd boy
6 units of boyz with 'eavy armor and shootas. Nob in each squad with kombi-scorcha, power klaw, and BP. Each unit has a trukk with extra armor and ram.
Glitcha wrote: One of the other local players told me after a recent game that I play my orks like marines?
- Sir! Those Space Marines are odd! They don't help us and instead run around screaming WAAAGH! smashing everything in sight with their bolters in hand to hand combat, including us!
- Nonsense! How dare you doubt the Emperor's finest! To penal legion! Off you go!..What's wrong with troops today? Fifth guardsman hallucinating. Must be our ratling's chef soup. I knew you can't trust those little buggers.
I once was in at a team event playing Grey knights with a friend and we were doing bad. So during our break we made a silly little table up to roll on at the beginning of the game. That was basically going to be our strategy. One was play like orks. so I had some grey knight terminators running across the table, shooting wildly and assaulting everything. We also had drop pod on the list. Which is funny because we were both running nemesis strike forces.
Hey guys. I'm looking for some Combat Patrol help. My wife decided she wants me to make her a list for an upcoming event, and wants to dig out her Orks. She isn't much of a 40k player, but loved Orks and has been painting 'em for years. I'd guess she has about 4000pts of everything.
The format is 400pts, no Flyer/FMC, no Lords of War, no Fortifications, and a couple other tweaks. The scenarios will be primarily objective holding of different kinds.
I do NOT have much experience with Orks, so can someone suggest some build ideas? One friend recommended plenty of Mek Guns which we do own, but beyond that, I am lost.
A couple of Kannons very rarely go awry at that low points. My suggestion would be a mob of shoota boys with a KFF mek as your army's core. Fairly versatile, you get to move around a lot of units, and you can toss in whatever past a certain point value. Alternatively ard boys in a trukk with a Warboss can be really scary on the charge against more elite armies. Also at 400pts skip over PKs, it's often better to just get a rocket warbuggy for objective grabbing and MSU. Orks can be really strong at low point values, you just need to figure out how to kit out your troops.
gnome_idea_what wrote: A couple of Kannons very rarely go awry at that low points. My suggestion would be a mob of shoota boys with a KFF mek as your army's core. Fairly versatile, you get to move around a lot of units, and you can toss in whatever past a certain point value. Alternatively ard boys in a trukk with a Warboss can be really scary on the charge against more elite armies. Also at 400pts skip over PKs, it's often better to just get a rocket warbuggy for objective grabbing and MSU. Orks can be really strong at low point values, you just need to figure out how to kit out your troops.
So no hidden Powerklaw in a unit? I guess at these sizes you'd rather just have four more Boyz huh?
It is legal in this format, but would be considered as only having 3HP. That said, spending 250pts for one model, out of 400pts strikes me as not the best in a format where holding multiple objectives or table-quarters will be the goal.
I'm thinking either some Lootas or Mek Guns in the back-field for holding that part of the table while maybe still contributing, and then just some Boyz in Trukks for zipping around and getting into trouble? Can always send the Trukks off on their own to help score IF they happen to survive?
Lootas can objective camp while sniping at any unit on the board (combat patrol usually has smaller board sizes, right?). They die to anything though. When a lot of the armor you'll be facing is 10-11, they could be really strong, now that I think about it.
What you can do is take a KKF BigMek with mega armor and attach him to some Lootas so they can move and shoot while not dying quite as much. Sub KFF for a SAG for more crazy shooting phases. It's a lot of points out of 400, but it could be awesome.
Edit: you don't want the hidden PK because it massively increases the cost of the unit, and because you want your AT (and that PK is a lot out of your AT budget) harder to kill than a single Nob.
If you want to go survivable for low points, then nothing beats mek gunz. A kannon is only 18 points, gives you two grots and an ork missile launcher that has two wounds and a 3+ save. Stick them in ruins and laugh as your opponent cannot kill your t7 grots (as they're artillery).
Now don't get me wrong, as soon as your opponent charges them, they're dead. But for only 18 points per gun, you can secure that objective, and make it REALLY tough to kill when your opponent only has 400 points to bring to the table.
Edit: Also, side note, trukks with reinforced rams can tank shock, so if it does survive to drop off its payload of boyz, enjoy tank shocking your enemies off of objectives for a measly 35 point fast transport.
Yep if they would be only 3 hp pass on the naughts. Their power comes when no LoW are allowed and a lot of things that people spam are S6 so the av13 is great.
Tankbustas are amazing at low-points. You're less likely to run into AV 14, and so they're almost guaranteed to take down their targets- and after that, you can use them to blast apart the little Marine units hanging around. Because you will see a LOT of Marines. People will be all "Oh, but one marine is such a tough unit for so few (comparative) points! Nobody's going to be taking anti-armour units because they're expensive!"
Anvildude wrote: Tankbustas are amazing at low-points. You're less likely to run into AV 14, and so they're almost guaranteed to take down their targets- and after that, you can use them to blast apart the little Marine units hanging around. Because you will see a LOT of Marines. People will be all "Oh, but one marine is such a tough unit for so few (comparative) points! Nobody's going to be taking anti-armour units because they're expensive!"
Agreed. TBs, when they hit, wreck marine face. Nobody will bring much 2+ armor as it is usually too expensive for 400 points.
I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.
Probably because they hit on 2's and Gdubs is loathe to have anything super reliable in the Ork codex to be super effective against marines. It's the same reason why our big choppas mind-boggingly is only AP5 even though the heavy chainsword (which I don't even know if it exists as an option in game) and the power maul are AP4, meaning we can't even pen scout armour. Just as planned I suppose...
Vitali Advenil wrote: I can vouch for how effective tankbustas are against marines. Even on overwatch these guys are practically guaranteed to drop one or two of them. And I'd take at least a couple of bomb-squigs while you're at it, for vehicle hunting. Don't bother using them against marines because for some reason bomb squigs are only AP4.
Probably because they hit on 2's and Gdubs is loathe to have anything super reliable in the Ork codex to be super effective against marines. It's the same reason why our big choppas mind-boggingly is only AP5 even though the heavy chainsword (which I don't even know if it exists as an option in game) and the power maul are AP4, meaning we can't even pen scout armour. Just as planned I suppose...
Yeah seriously for ten more points Marines can take relic blades. +2 STR AP3 two handed. I think we would see alot more big choppas if they were that for ten more points.
Heck, at +2 STR AP3 I wouldn't run half the powerklaws I usually do. But +2 STRAP 5 is so underwhelming I only put it on nobs I don't plan on throwing into CC.
Has anyone tried the Wall of Martyrs Defense Emplacement for lootas? It's 10 points less than an Aegis line and allows re-rolling overwatch on Heavy weapons.
It isn't nearly as flexible as an Aegis, but it should fit a unit of lootas nicely.
Also, the model is very cheap. I think I might get me one and try it.
JimOnMars wrote: Has anyone tried the Wall of Martyrs Defense Emplacement for lootas? It's 10 points less than an Aegis line and allows re-rolling overwatch on Heavy weapons.
It isn't nearly as flexible as an Aegis, but it should fit a unit of lootas nicely.
Also, the model is very cheap. I think I might get me one and try it.
Can you buy just one wall section? I was under the impression that you had to start with one of the bunkers or big emplacements that come in that model kit and then you can add wall sections, ammo dumps, etc.
I don't actually own a copy of Stronghold Assault, obviously.
Yes, you can buy one section. Looking closely at it, it doesn't seem that bad for Lootas.
@SkrawnyNob the confusion probably stems from the 80-pt wall of martyrs defense line (not to be confused with the defense emplacement) and the wall of martyrs defense network (which is basically what you described, you start with the bigger WoM stuff and bundle other WoM fortifications in a fortification-decurion-thingy.) Stronghold Assault is like DFTS, it's rules don't improve the game and it just makes things clunkier, so not owning it is normal. (I don't own a hard copy, i found a PDF because I don't use the rules in the book and I just use it for reference.)
So after plunging into the depths of the internet, I haven't been able to locate the rules for the Gargantuan Squiggoth. WIth the tournament being tomorrow, I'm considering a different 1850 list that I also haven't used before.
All about them trukks, no umies: 1850
Great waaagh band detachment
Command:
Wierdboy (ML2)
Core: Waaagh-Band
Warboss: DLS, MA, BP (Warlord)
Mek: Naked
Gretchin: Naked
Meganobz: 2 Meganobz: Kombi-scorchas. 1 Boss Meganob: Kombi-scorcha, BP (One is joined by wierdboy)
x2 Stormboyz squads: 4 Stormboyz, 1 Boss Nob: PK, BP
So basically, I'm really, really hoping to roll a one on my WT table for fearless waaaging the whole game. Thoughts? I'm not sure how I feel about the lack of ObSec, but it could be really fun. I haven't tried this detachment before.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Stronghold Assault is like DFTS, it's rules don't improve the game and it just makes things clunkier, so not owning it is normal. (I don't own a hard copy, i found a PDF because I don't use the rules in the book and I just use it for reference.)
I don't think SA is nearly as bad as DFTS. In this case, it just gives a cover save and an extra rule (actually two, it gives a unit Stubborn as well.) The digital version of the book is only $25, probably well worth it for orks who lack saves and ranged firepower.
@JimOnMars I just feel like a lot of it didn't need to be written, like the 400+pt buildings and the honored imperium statue. The missions don't look terrible but the whole thing is building on what I think isn't a very interesting concept. It isn't as bad as DFTS though, you're right on that point. Somewhat more on topic, DFTS did have the Wazbom. Assuming that you ignore the agility and pursuit stuff, is it better than a blitza-bommer? They both provide anti-TEQ/vehicle with blasts, but is the versatility of the Wazbom going to show itself before it gets blown to pieces?
gnome_idea_what wrote: @JimOnMars I just feel like a lot of it didn't need to be written, like the 400+pt buildings and the honored imperium statue. The missions don't look terrible but the whole thing is building on what I think isn't a very interesting concept. It isn't as bad as DFTS though, you're right on that point. Somewhat more on topic, DFTS did have the Wazbom. Assuming that you ignore the agility and pursuit stuff, is it better than a blitza-bommer? They both provide anti-TEQ/vehicle with blasts, but is the versatility of the Wazbom going to show itself before it gets blown to pieces?
I don't know anything about the flyers. I was kind of PO'd that they added the extra sprue to the dakkajet kit and raised the price on both. I was looking to get a dakkajet but I'll be damned if I'm forced to pay the extra cost for it.
Getting back to Stronghold Assault, I found something better for lootas or tank bustas: The Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker is an av14 medium building (4 hull points) with 2 fire points, each allowing 4 models to fire! So that makes 8 lootas shooting out of a av-14 closed-top building. It's only 5 points more than an aegis line. Seems to me like every CAD needs one of these.
I've run a greentide vs ravenwing today. We only managed to complete 2 turns in a 3,5 hour game but it was looking fine for orks. Pks and numbers can still matter...if the opponent doesn't get invis.
It takes a while to widdle down Orks, the longer the game goes on, the worse it usually ends up for the Orks. At least that's what I've noticed. Only getting to Turn2 skews this a lot. So much so, I'd even say "numbers can still matter" isn't an accurate statement. A lot of tournaments realize this issue and force the players to go to at least Turn4. If they don't reach Turn4 both players score 0 points and lose.
This is what I've noticed while running 10x12 boyz. I've always finished 4 rounds with 3 hour caps. Getting to Turn5 is a little harder. 2 turns isn't conclusive enough unfortunately. :(
Orks lost some 30 boyz, 1 nob, 2 koptas and 4 lootas. Marines lost a squad of 6 or 7 bikers, attack bike, speeder and 2 knights (plazma talon dudes). So, it's not like i was taking losses and he wasn't.
I personally take the wazbomb over the blitza bomma just because the bomber never gets to drop his bombs before being shot down. The wazbomb gets at least one turn to fire.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Lootas can objective camp while sniping at any unit on the board (combat patrol usually has smaller board sizes, right?). They die to anything though. When a lot of the armor you'll be facing is 10-11, they could be really strong, now that I think about it.
What you can do is take a KKF BigMek with mega armor and attach him to some Lootas so they can move and shoot while not dying quite as much. Sub KFF for a SAG for more crazy shooting phases. It's a lot of points out of 400, but it could be awesome.
Edit: you don't want the hidden PK because it massively increases the cost of the unit, and because you want your AT (and that PK is a lot out of your AT budget) harder to kill than a single Nob.
I'm not so sure a kff big Mek is the way to go for lootas or Mek guns anymore.
Now that the void shield generator model is easily accessible.
You now have a giant tower that your lootas or Mek guns can be placed on two seperate levels.
Protected first by 3x av12 regenerating void shields and then they still get a 4+ cover save because it has battlements which means they get a cover save even in the open while on the generator which itself is a 4 hull av13 building.
With as tall as that model is it makes getting line of sight a lot easier for your Mek gunz and lootas even after the faq changes take effect and all for 100pts.
The one advantage the KFF BM has over the VSG is that the BM grants the lootas slow and purposeful if he's in mega-armor. Granted, this is expensive, and I've only run it twice, but being able to move those big guns around while firing at full BS is actually pretty useful at times. It's great for positioning.
But, to be honest, I think both options are generally too expensive for protecting lootas. Stick them in some ruins and go to ground whenever something even mildly threatening shoots at them. They could be getting a 3+ cover save and lootas care the least about snap-firing. I'd rather use the VSG to protect a couple gunwagons or walkers, things that really need to extra protection.
Half the time I tank shock just for fun. Sometimes it works out, like when I was able to tank shock some necrons off of a point I needed, and sometimes it doesn't, when a single assault marine was able to wreck my trukk.
Usually, though, I prefer ramming. Especially with the reinforced ram upgrade, you're getting a S9 auto-hit from the battlewagon. Positioned correctly you can wreck some lighter craft.
Unless you roll a 1 against some land speeders and only get a glance. Like I did. Twice.
Tank shocking with the burna wagon is fun, if you can get it anywhere near the enemy infantry. You get a LOT of kills out of that...usually doesn't happen, though.
JimOnMars wrote: Tank shocking with the burna wagon is fun, if you can get it anywhere near the enemy infantry. You get a LOT of kills out of that...usually doesn't happen, though.
JimOnMars wrote: Tank shocking with the burna wagon is fun, if you can get it anywhere near the enemy infantry. You get a LOT of kills out of that...usually doesn't happen, though.
But yo ucan't shoot after tankshocking, right?
Just checked and it seems that you can't flat out or embark/disembark but it says nothing about preventing shooting.
So I finally got the time to put up my report on the tournament last Saturday for anyone interested. Oddly, we had a fairly low turnout for an 1850 tournament. The armies were: Blood Angels, Eldar, Harlequins, Orks, and White scars. Going into it, I had to borrow some rhinos from the blood angels player, as I haven't ever fielded that many trukks before, and it was pretty fun. FYI on how this tournament worked, we did three maelstrom missions, and added up the total points from each game to determine who we were paired with, and who wins in the end.
Game one: Orks vs. Blood Angels. Mission: up to three objectives per turn.
Spoiler:
The blood angels player was excited to use one of his new formations, which let him bring in three squads of terminators and let them deepstrike in and assault the same turn they came in. He also had a mix of heavy tanks (including a land raider), a couple of biker squads and single unit attack bikes, snipers, and assault marines to hold down his table edge. I put down most of my trukks near the front, or behind the cover I could use.
Match highlights: He foolishly rushed forwards with 90% of his force (exited about the fact most of them were fast vehicles now, I think), and took out my warlord's trukk, and a 5 man squad of stormboyz. I rushed back and obliterated most of his tanks.
I charged an attack bike with my grot squad, and managed to kill it in the second turn, and then secure the middle objective. Go 35 point grots!
First turn, I warp vomited on a 3 man biker unit, and my Wierdboy promptly periled and got sucked into the warp. Gee, thanks LD 7.
A TH/SS terminator squad jumped in front of my warboss and assaulted. They failed to do much, and then got promptly swamped by more boyz squads where they quickly died.
End result: Neither of us managed to get a lot of points in the game, and just like all the other games, we ran out of time, giving both of us 4 points, resulting in a tie.
Game two: Orks vs. Harlequins. Mission: Up to three objectives per turn, players can steal "secure objective x" cards.
Spoiler:
The Harlequin player had a couple of formations (The names escape me right now), one gave him a Solitaire, Death Jester, and Voidseer with stealth and shrouded, and another was the standard formation, with most of his troupes in transports, another voidseer (warlord), death jester, two squads of jetbikes, and two heavy support guys with lances. He deployed first, and we both ended up putting our guys fairly close to our deployment edges.
Match highlights: I seized initiative, and rushed forwards with everything across the board, and ended up pinning most of his forces on his side of the field. (hooray for fast transports and thier 24” movement!)
Him, trying to deal with my orks in his face, stayed in the back, and ended up giving me most of the objective markers.
With first turn waaagh, I managed to get a 5 man squad of stormboyz into combat with his voidseer with the scariest powers, and kill him.
The next turn, that same 5 man squad (now down to two boyz and my nob) jumped into a building, and killed one of his death jesters that was contesting an objective, giving me all the objectives, and scoring me domination. This was the first time I have ever scored domination.
On the next turn, that same squad jumped over and killed the last death jester. They shall be immortalized in a killteam for their epic performance of the game.
One of my trukk boys squads went after his solitaire that was hiding behind a building. And I managed to kill him with my lucky shoota/slugga fire, and his unlucky 3+ saves.
End result: An overwhelming victory on my part, as I managed to hold all the objectives for most of the game, and I stole his objectives as well as scoring mine. It ended as 20-2.
Game three: Orks vs Craftworld Eldar. Vanguard deployment, and up to three objectives per turn.
Spoiler:
This was my first fight against the dreaded scat-bikes. He brought several 3 man squads of scat-bikes, as well as some large warp spider squads, a seer council with the swooping hawk phoenix lord, and a sword and board wraithknight.
Highlights: Him getting the first turn, and the fact that we were doing vanguard deployment meant he was impossible to pin down like the harlequin player, as a result, he was able to deal with my army somewhat piecemeal.
Warp spiders are incredibly annoying. I never shot at them, to keep them from running away, but their hit and run ability meant that unless I 100% wiped them out, they would just jump away from combat.
Scatterbikes… Gorkin’ Morkin’ scatterbikes.
His seer council proved to be far more resilient to close combat than I expected, costing me in this game.
End result: A crushing defeat on my part. The end of the game we had a score of 13 vs 3
At the end of the night, I placed second, with 37 points vs. the Eldar Player’s 40 points. So all in all, not a bad night. Some takeaways from this list:
While I only really had morale issues in the last game, I never got the “Profit of the Waaagh” trait, even with rerolls.
First turn waaaghing is downright magical with stormboyz
While having 6 boyz units is a bit odd, and at first I was not a fan. In the end, though, I didn’t mind it as it makes your lists very redundant. Giving all of the nobz powerklaws makes the squads very flexible, and it was great being able to just keep throwing squads at targets. And having backups for your backups.
So all in all, I actually liked the 1850 waaaghband, even though I didn’t have ghazzy. I think, if I ever had the occasion to do a REALLY high points game, I’m going to have to try it out with ghazzy for the certain fearless every turn.
Palleus wrote: So I finally got the time to put up my report on the tournament last Saturday for anyone interested. Oddly, we had a fairly low turnout for an 1850 tournament. The armies were: Blood Angels, Eldar, Harlequins, Orks, and White scars. Going into it, I had to borrow some rhinos from the blood angels player, as I haven't ever fielded that many trukks before, and it was pretty fun. FYI on how this tournament worked, we did three maelstrom missions, and added up the total points from each game to determine who we were paired with, and who wins in the end.
Game one: Orks vs. Blood Angels. Mission: up to three objectives per turn.
Spoiler:
The blood angels player was excited to use one of his new formations, which let him bring in three squads of terminators and let them deepstrike in and assault the same turn they came in. He also had a mix of heavy tanks (including a land raider), a couple of biker squads and single unit attack bikes, snipers, and assault marines to hold down his table edge. I put down most of my trukks near the front, or behind the cover I could use.
Match highlights: He foolishly rushed forwards with 90% of his force (exited about the fact most of them were fast vehicles now, I think), and took out my warlord's trukk, and a 5 man squad of stormboyz. I rushed back and obliterated most of his tanks.
I charged an attack bike with my grot squad, and managed to kill it in the second turn, and then secure the middle objective. Go 35 point grots!
First turn, I warp vomited on a 3 man biker unit, and my Wierdboy promptly periled and got sucked into the warp. Gee, thanks LD 7.
A TH/SS terminator squad jumped in front of my warboss and assaulted. They failed to do much, and then got promptly swamped by more boyz squads where they quickly died.
End result: Neither of us managed to get a lot of points in the game, and just like all the other games, we ran out of time, giving both of us 4 points, resulting in a tie.
Game two: Orks vs. Harlequins. Mission: Up to three objectives per turn, players can steal "secure objective x" cards.
Spoiler:
The Harlequin player had a couple of formations (The names escape me right now), one gave him a Solitaire, Death Jester, and Voidseer with stealth and shrouded, and another was the standard formation, with most of his troupes in transports, another voidseer (warlord), death jester, two squads of jetbikes, and two heavy support guys with lances. He deployed first, and we both ended up putting our guys fairly close to our deployment edges.
Match highlights: I seized initiative, and rushed forwards with everything across the board, and ended up pinning most of his forces on his side of the field. (hooray for fast transports and thier 24” movement!)
Him, trying to deal with my orks in his face, stayed in the back, and ended up giving me most of the objective markers.
With first turn waaagh, I managed to get a 5 man squad of stormboyz into combat with his voidseer with the scariest powers, and kill him.
The next turn, that same 5 man squad (now down to two boyz and my nob) jumped into a building, and killed one of his death jesters that was contesting an objective, giving me all the objectives, and scoring me domination. This was the first time I have ever scored domination.
On the next turn, that same squad jumped over and killed the last death jester. They shall be immortalized in a killteam for their epic performance of the game.
One of my trukk boys squads went after his solitaire that was hiding behind a building. And I managed to kill him with my lucky shoota/slugga fire, and his unlucky 3+ saves.
End result: An overwhelming victory on my part, as I managed to hold all the objectives for most of the game, and I stole his objectives as well as scoring mine. It ended as 20-2.
Game three: Orks vs Craftworld Eldar. Vanguard deployment, and up to three objectives per turn.
Spoiler:
This was my first fight against the dreaded scat-bikes. He brought several 3 man squads of scat-bikes, as well as some large warp spider squads, a seer council with the swooping hawk phoenix lord, and a sword and board wraithknight.
Highlights: Him getting the first turn, and the fact that we were doing vanguard deployment meant he was impossible to pin down like the harlequin player, as a result, he was able to deal with my army somewhat piecemeal.
Warp spiders are incredibly annoying. I never shot at them, to keep them from running away, but their hit and run ability meant that unless I 100% wiped them out, they would just jump away from combat.
Scatterbikes… Gorkin’ Morkin’ scatterbikes.
His seer council proved to be far more resilient to close combat than I expected, costing me in this game.
End result: A crushing defeat on my part. The end of the game we had a score of 13 vs 3
At the end of the night, I placed second, with 37 points vs. the Eldar Player’s 40 points. So all in all, not a bad night. Some takeaways from this list:
While I only really had morale issues in the last game, I never got the “Profit of the Waaagh” trait, even with rerolls.
First turn waaaghing is downright magical with stormboyz
While having 6 boyz units is a bit odd, and at first I was not a fan. In the end, though, I didn’t mind it as it makes your lists very redundant. Giving all of the nobz powerklaws makes the squads very flexible, and it was great being able to just keep throwing squads at targets. And having backups for your backups.
So all in all, I actually liked the 1850 waaaghband, even though I didn’t have ghazzy. I think, if I ever had the occasion to do a REALLY high points game, I’m going to have to try it out with ghazzy for the certain fearless every turn.
Thanks for sharing! Sounds like the boy put up a good fight, but yeah, against the upper tier armies like Eldar with scatbikes, the WAAAGH Band just can't handle that much S6 dakka without getting shredded or stranded. The last time I was able to handle them was because I had a mass dakka Ork list with Mek Gunz and bikerz out the wazoo that could actually somewhat weather the sheer amount of shots they can dish out. Even then it was a close game.
I'm hopefully going to be trying out a Council of WAAAAGH and WAAAGH Band combo 2500 point game against a Necron friend of mine this weekend so I can post some of the results of how our Orkurion does at higher points games that I think they're intended to be played at.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Odd. I seem to remember the rules stating you can only snapfire after tank shock or ramming. I'll have to take a look when I get home.
I checked this and when it comes to Ramming you're right - snapshots only.
Tank shock doesn't really say anything about it, so I assume it would depend on how far you went (combat speed vs cruising?)
Yep. Tank shocking only requires combat speed, so >0 inches up to 6. If you tank shock 6.1, you can't burn, so keep the throttle down, boyz and we'll have ourselves a cookout!
I still need to finish my burna boyz, come to think of it, but I just have more pressing projects on hand, like a trukk for my tankbustas and a grot squad. Granted, the later will take like four hours but I find it hard to motivate myself to paint vehicles.
Stormboyz +1-st turn assault can be neat. Though, the opponent is usually prepared for it. So, i see no real reason to go for Ghazcurion over the cad formation that's identical but without nerfed mob rule.
Honestly stormboyz are just bad. Their one good thing kills them, which can force a morale chdck, which can either kill more or have them run. They need a build in cover save for me to even consider taking them over bikers.
koooaei wrote: Stormboyz +1-st turn assault can be neat. Though, the opponent is usually prepared for it. So, i see no real reason to go for Ghazcurion over the cad formation that's identical but without nerfed mob rule.
They're not exactly scatterbikes, that's for sure, but I've run them as the little squads (costing 85 points) and I either hide them behind LOS blocking terrain that they can just jump over or behind a trukk. My opponent largely ignores because they're so small, and I pretty much only use them on easy targets so my tougher squads can go for the crunchier stuff. Tanks, and single model units (like the voidseers and death jesters) make for perfect targets for the way I use stormboyz. Anything larger, and their 6+ save typically crumples. But they're only 85 points for a powerklaw and four meat shields that can move 12", so you get what you pay for. I long for the day I can put 'eavy armor on everything
This was the first time I've used them in this formation, so first time I've done 1st turn charges due to waaaghs. It's fun, but it's only ever an option in 1850 point games, which we only do ever few months.
If you're just running them for the 12 movement, consider 3 bikes with a pk nob. They're tougher, can shoot and have 3+ cover, 4+ armor. Stormboyz are there for the extra long charges on WAAGH! that can be great. Or can fail - depending on luck.
The 85 point stormboy squad is a great deep-strike annoyance unit. If they could only get the raptor/talon treatment (assault from reserve) they would be stellar.
Problem is they won't do jack when they DS since their only good attacks are in melee. Even then, they don't do anything normal orks can't. 10 stormboyz and a PK nob is 130. 10 boyz in a trukk with a PK nob costs the exact same, granted you don't give the trukk a ram (which you should.), and amazingly the trukk is more survivable and has almost the exact same movement without the danger of half the squad dying before even being shot at. Plus, the trukk gets you an extra ObSec unit, and the orks inside have plenty of choices going for them. Honestly, until I can think of a reason to take stormboyz over boyz in a trukk, I'll still with the trukkboyz.
The main problem i have with trukks is the explodes! result, which happens a lot to me. I usually run armoed boyz in there, and with the pk nob come out to about 200, including the trukk.
Honestly my trukks usually get glanced to death by S4 fire. It's usually my battlewagons that explode, amazingly. But I rarely run normal boyz in trukks- those are for meganobz and specialist units. I do run trukkboyz from time to time, but like you said, the explodes result hurts them a lot. Heavy armor definitely helps out with that.
JimOnMars wrote: The 85 point stormboy squad is a great deep-strike annoyance unit. If they could only get the raptor/talon treatment (assault from reserve) they would be stellar.
It's kinda dumb that we were one of the original codices from 4th/5th ed where assault from deep strike was our schtick, with Boss Zagstruk and his Vulcha Sqwad being a byword for backfield assault. Now it's been inexplicably taken away from us and given to first the space marines with the skyhammer formation and now to CSM and Blood Angels.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: If they could get ds scatter mitigation, they'd be an interesting choice.
Technically this is possible with the Vulcha Sqwad formation but it unfortunately comes at the cost of Zagstruk himself and WG! terrible +2 to Mob Rule tests so it's a wash at best.
Technically this is possible with the Vulcha Sqwad formation but it unfortunately comes at the cost of Zagstruk himself and WG! terrible +2 to Mob Rule tests so it's a wash at best.
No, i mean if they could assault out of ds AND get scatter mitigation. Otherwise they'd be like the new raptor formation. Cool on paper, fail miserably every 2-d game. Also, disoriented charge means way more to orks with s3. And they will probably get one.
Technically this is possible with the Vulcha Sqwad formation but it unfortunately comes at the cost of Zagstruk himself and WG! terrible +2 to Mob Rule tests so it's a wash at best.
No, i mean if they could assault out of ds AND get scatter mitigation. Otherwise they'd be like the new raptor formation. Cool on paper, fail miserably every 2-d game. Also, disoriented charge means way more to orks with s3. And they will probably get one.
Ah, my mistake, didn't realize it was in direct response to guy talking about deep strike assault. But yeah, we would need both the D6" only scatter and charge from deep strike and without the disordered charge debuff since boyz hit like wet noodles once they lose their charge bonus. Maybe if Zagstruk went back to his older self and gained power klaw attacks again on the initiative that it would help mitigate some of this but alas I doubt they'll do so.
I’ve always felt that one of the most dangerous things in the game of 40K was Fearless Orks. I was very happy to see the Stompa in the codex this last time around for it nice Fearless bubble. I’ve been trying to get a list to work with it and have won occasionally but it’s awkward to try and keep units close and limits the army as a whole.
Like most people when the Orcurion hit I was disappointed. But after spending some time with it I’ve found a list that works really well for my meta. Up until recently I was playing Bully Boyz in Blitz Brigade with 30 Tankbustas and having fun but with so many new units and formations, even that list wasn’t able to keep up. So here’s the list:
Council of Waaagh!
Ghaz
Grotsnik
Warboss in MA Warboss in MA Big Mek in EA
Nobs with EA and Waaagh Banner
Battlewagon with RR and 4 Rokkits
Waaagh!-Band
BikerBoss with PK Mek
Meganobz with Killsaws in Trukk with RR and Rokkit
Min Grots
Min Boyz, no upgrades x 6
Auxiliaries
Single Deffkopta x 4
Full unit of KMK Mek Gunz with 5 Extra Grots and 5 Ammo Runts
Full unit of Lobba Mek Gunz with 5 Extra Grots and 5 Ammo Runts
2000 points exactly.
Standard deployment is to place my three objectives as close together and as far back as possible. Lobbas babysit the center objective with the Council in BW right in front of them. KMK’s go on either side of the Lobbas depending on opponent’s deployment. Grots and Boyz on the opposite side of the Lobbas from the KMK’s. The idea is to NOT rush forward with Ghaz and just take objectives and shoot the opponent to death.
First game was against a Tau player: fully kitted out Jetpack command squad, Stormsurge, Riptide, two units of pathfinders. It’s lists like this that I’ve given up on the Bully Boyz. Once they jump out or their rides are destroyed, they can be picked off easily. Tau goes first and pretty much is able to kill two grots from the KMK battery and some grots on foot advancing towards his table edge. Orks, first turn and can now call the Waaagh and just run all the Boyz forward, never firing once, toward his table edge. Ghaz in BW and Meganobz in Trukk don’t move from the deployment zone and cover. KMK’s take out a lot of shield Drones from his Command squad and the Lobbas erase a unit of Pathfinders from the board.
Next Tau turn he kills some more grots and a few now Fearless Boyz. Takes a potshot at the front armor of the BW in cover J No effect. Orks, kill even more command squad models. Lobbas remove his second Pathfinders. One of the barrages roll five natural “hits”. In all my years that has never happened without a reroll. Something like 25 wounds . . . Third turn his command squad jumps forward and is getting ready to assault the KMK’s and his Riptide is now focusing on the ever closing Boys and Grots. BTW every turn they are moving through cover which is really slowing them down. My Meganobz decide to intercept his command squad and jump out at them. There’s just one problem. Because of the way he bunched his suits and drones, my KMK’s totally obliterate his squad leaving just one suit left!! No way the Meganobz can reach them to they are partially left in the open. Ghaz still just hanging out.
Fourth turn he moves his formally planted Stormsurge backwards away from my Meganobz and moves his riptide back. Bottom of fourth turn just as everything is in range of assaulting his remaining forces, he concedes. Ghaz and krew in BW never moved once. 805 points just sat there but even that, pretty much the same as a Stompa, was worth his weight in teef by providing Fearless to everything. We only play Maelstrom so I was clearly going to win on objectives, slay the warlord, first blood, linebreaker…
Second game was last night against Demons and Chaos Space Marines. Notable units were two HQ demons in a pink horror group used for Summoning, three maulerfiends in some special formation, and 10 dogs with Khorne Juggernaut Lord and four sorcerers on Bikes with force weapons. He got something like 25 warp charge the first turn.
So I deployed pretty much the same way with the exception of stringing out, base-to-base, four units of Boyz and the units of grots at the edge of the deployment zone so if he charged with his death star dogs they’d take the brunt of it.
I get first turn and can’t kill anything due to a special rule giving everything 24”+ shrouding and stealth. New league but still maelstrom. I don’t move a single model. For that first game each boy unit had a Rokkit which never fired due to running all the time so I took that away and gave myself a fourth Deffkopta. He moves his death star forward and buffs it with like 6 powers. Iron Arm, Endurance, rerolls of armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, yadda yadda. He runs his Maulerfiends forward.
Second turn I assault the three Mauler fiends with two Boyz mobs and the dogs and Lord and Sorcerers with another two Boyz mobs, grot fail to make the charge. They’re Fearless so they just have to survive two rounds of combat. Meanwhile straight up the middle I’m able to move Ghaz’ BW 6”, disembark into difficult terrain 5”, run 5”, and roll 10” into assault with bog a summoned unit and the Pink Horrors units. Opponent has an “oh gak” look on his face. Assaulting the death star robs his unit of rage bonus attacks. The Boyz do minimal damage but that’s not the point. Also they can’t even hurt the maulerfiends but with just 240 points I’m able to tie down the majority of the opponent’s army.
Ghaz and krew mop up his back field and move on to the maulerfiends where I stupidly lose a MA Warboss and Grotsnik! His death star splits to claim an objective, assault the grots with his Khorne lord which was hilarious, and assault the KMK which was pointless since he kept casting invisibility on himself and almost his whole army was tied up in combat. The Lobbas only fired twice that game due to lack of targets. Game ends on turn 5 score 12-7 Orks win.
I’ll keep at it update any other wins or losses but with all the insane OP units everyone else is getting, I’m quite content feeding them Boyz and grots and then take objectives. Both games the Deffkoptas have been near useless except as distractions.
PipeAlley wrote: First game was against a Tau player: fully kitted out Jetpack command squad, Stormsurge, Riptide, two units of pathfinders. It’s lists like this that I’ve given up on the Bully Boyz. Once they jump out or their rides are destroyed, they can be picked off easily. Tau goes first and pretty much is able to kill two grots from the KMK battery and some grots on foot advancing towards his table edge.
How did you avoid more damage? Did he roll badly trying to wound T7 grots and the AV14 BW? Did you have good cover?
Ok, so was there anyone else that has seen this new genesteelers cult stuff and thought "I can convert orks to that".
If they're new codex is amazing then I might do that. For example I have a bunch of unpainted boyz with choppas and shootas, and I have a mess of extra boy arms, a little glue and kitbash ing I will have 3 armed genesteeler orks. In old fluff they did exist, and were known as genelootaz
. Might be the next way for me to run an orkish horde army competitive (if they're codex is good).
Yeah, I heard the guys at my FLGS talking about some new transport that looked straight out of Mad Max. When they showed me the model and said it was for genestealers my response was "Not for long."
Seriously I am gonna loot the gak out of that truck.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Yeah, I heard the guys at my FLGS talking about some new transport that looked straight out of Mad Max. When they showed me the model and said it was for genestealers my response was "Not for long."
Seriously I am gonna loot the gak out of that truck.
Funny part is that the genestealer cults loot it first from the Imperium, then we loot it from them. Double looted vehicles are best vehicles.
Yeah, since it's not open topped I wouldn't even consider touching it, plus the transport capacity is pretty poor.
Also, I agree about the ramshackle thing. Ignoring immobilized on a 4+ is insane. Granted, I've had my fair share of trukks saved by ramshackle, but I'd gladly trade it for this.
75 points for av12 front and improved ramshackle, but only carry 6 boyz and losing assault?
It will still get glanced to death, causing mob rule anyway...not sure how long the sides of the vehicle are, but if it's anything like a trukk it will be very hard to avoid the av10 anyway.
I'm not impressed. I'm more curious as to see what the drilldozer blade's rules are like and how much better it will undoubtedly be than the deff rolla. As a transport in of itself, its sub-par IMO, at least for an Ork army.
We must see full rules before decideing if it's good or bad. It might be some sort of multiple ap2 large blasts on the entry. You know, like the tyranid's big bug that does this thing.
What was that 12/10/10 vehicle that was linked a few posts ago? It wasn't an orks vehicle, was it?
As for practicality in a competitive scene, any transport that isn't free or an assault vehicle is hard to justify; in this case neither - unfortunately.
I'm also a firm believer that orks (boyz - in particular) shouldn't be in trukks though. They kill themselves more often then protect them.
I dunno about you, but that thing doesn't really look that fast to me. I'd have to modify it before I felt like a speed freak could use it. I'd attach a trailer thing to the back, make it look like a looted gravel carrier or something, bulk it up with some more armor, turn the trailer into a troop compartment, then use it as a Deff Skulls Battlewagon. It looks like AV14-ish in the front, and the back isn't really armored, so it works thematically. I'll need to improve my conversion skills, but the idea is solid-ish.
Also @Grimskul the drilldozer is basically better than the Deffrolla unless your opponent misread the death or glory rules and tries to se them constantly. Poor Deffrolla, you used to be so good!
Saythings wrote: What was that 12/10/10 vehicle that was linked a few posts ago? It wasn't an orks vehicle, was it?
As for practicality in a competitive scene, any transport that isn't free or an assault vehicle is hard to justify; in this case neither - unfortunately.
I'm also a firm believer that orks (boyz - in particular) shouldn't be in trukks though. They kill themselves more often then protect them.
I posted it, it's one of the new transports for genesteeler cults codex
PipeAlley wrote: First game was against a Tau player: fully kitted out Jetpack command squad, Stormsurge, Riptide, two units of pathfinders. It’s lists like this that I’ve given up on the Bully Boyz. Once they jump out or their rides are destroyed, they can be picked off easily. Tau goes first and pretty much is able to kill two grots from the KMK battery and some grots on foot advancing towards his table edge.
How did you avoid more damage? Did he roll badly trying to wound T7 grots and the AV14 BW? Did you have good cover?
Cover was 4+ for the BW and 5+ for the Mekgunz. I had the grots spread max distance. Also night fighting for the first turn so actually 4+ for the first turn. He was more worried about all the boys than the Mek Gunz since he had 4++ inv drones protecting the ommand sauad and he was spread out well the first two turns until he moved forward. Stormsurge under performed that's for sure!
So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:
Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105
I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:
Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105
I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.
Thoughts?
The whole schtick is the formation's ability to allow its units locked in combat attack for free without retaliation in the movement phase. It's important to note that once you activate it, only the units in combat will be able to use it. So that being the case, I would edge towards a larger unit for the painmob boyz unit if you have extra boyz models to add into it given that you want those extra numbers to get the most of your free attacks (which will be sadly S3) and drop the 'eavy armour to save points to add more bodies given that chances are that the Painboy will be in the boyz unit. If you're taking this as part of a larger army, I would suggest getting them up to around 19 and put them and the Painboy in a Battlewagon. If you want to stick with the minimum size squads then I highly suggest you take a trukk for both the Nobz and the 10 boyz. Ideally, the boyz should upgrade one of their members into a Nob wielding a power klaw, since this will let them do more damage when you activate the formation ability and just give them more versatility.
In the case of the Nobz, unfortunately mass power klaws are not very efficient on normal Nobz squads given that you could have a more survivable Mega Nob squad instead for less. I would only go for one power klaw on the Nobz squad (make sure its not on the Nob leader so that way it won't get challenged out) and maybe give the rest big choppas if you can fit the points. Also 5 bosspoles is waaaay overkill. You only need one max, since it'll only really be relevant for re-rolling 4-6s if you fail mob rule in combat or 2-6's if your Nob leader is dead. Otherwise, the 'eavy armour upgrades are almost mandatory if they're not joined by the Painboy since they'll drop like flies without either.
So I was recently talked into giving into temptation and getting a killa kan kit. I know they aren't the best, but I prefer them over deff dreads because I won't care nearly as much if one dies. However, I'm stuck on how to arm them. Grotzookas are a fantastic way to drop 6 small blasts onto some infantry, but with their stupid grots rule they'll risk snap-firing often, which would prevent them from shooting at all. Rockets seem like a nice alternative for vehicle hunting, but I already bring tankbustas, lootas, and killsaws in almost all my lists, and 3 rockets seem pretty underwhelming when compared to the other options. The skorcha suffers the same problems as the grotzooka, and is a waste of the grots BS3. Honestly, why don't I see anyone talking about the KMBs? It seems like the best option for my needs. Grots have the best BS in our codex, can't suffer from Gets Hot!, and are only 5 points a pop. Plus, I have very little AP 2 at range. How come I never see people talk about arming their kanz with KMBs?
KaptinBadrukk wrote: So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:
Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105
I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.
Thoughts?
I can't remember, but if the painmob allows you to take meganobz over nobz, do it. Nobz squads are garbage and meganobz only cost something like 3 points more after giving normal nobs a PK and heavy armor. In fact, 5 meganobz is only 200 points, a whole 45 points less than the nob squad. With that you can throw in a bosspole, a pair of killsaws, and a trukk with a ram and break even. Also, I wouldn't bother with the extra armor on the dread. The thing is paper-thin to begin with, so any shot that pens it will probably be followed by killing blows as well. Plus, it has to snapfire either way, which you can't do with a template. Also, transports. You need more of them. The trukk for the meganobz is a start (if meganobz are an option), and get another trukk for the boyz with the painboy.
Also, throw a powerklaw on the boss nob in the boy squad. A lot of the time he's the one who decides between a loss or victory in CC.
I used to arm MY Kanz with KMBs. Of course, that was partially because I tried cramming as many KMBs into my lists as possible, due to the Terminator-heavy meta where I played.
However, yes, they are awesome, and I love them on Kanz.
Another option is just leaving them with their Big Shootaz. Strength 5 shots aren't too bad, especially when they're hitting half the time. They've got good range, and with a squad that's a decent amount of firepower.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So I was recently talked into giving into temptation and getting a killa kan kit. I know they aren't the best, but I prefer them over deff dreads because I won't care nearly as much if one dies. However, I'm stuck on how to arm them. Grotzookas are a fantastic way to drop 6 small blasts onto some infantry, but with their stupid grots rule they'll risk snap-firing often, which would prevent them from shooting at all. Rockets seem like a nice alternative for vehicle hunting, but I already bring tankbustas, lootas, and killsaws in almost all my lists, and 3 rockets seem pretty underwhelming when compared to the other options. The skorcha suffers the same problems as the grotzooka, and is a waste of the grots BS3. Honestly, why don't I see anyone talking about the KMBs? It seems like the best option for my needs. Grots have the best BS in our codex, can't suffer from Gets Hot!, and are only 5 points a pop. Plus, I have very little AP 2 at range. How come I never see people talk about arming their kanz with KMBs?
Grotzookas all day every day. There is no other option IMO as everything else pales in comparison. For example the other day I had my 6 man band of grotzooka trash kans pump out 21 hits onto a blob of grotesques (they weren't even all that tightly packed together) and end up outright taking a few out after their FNP and cover saves. No way I would come close to those numbers with Rokkits or Big Shootas. Yes the cowardly grot rule is hot garbage and hurts the Grotzooka kans more than the other weapons but the Grotzooka is a beast of a weapon and provides a lot of firepower for the points. If you want Rokkits you can take Tankbustas, Kannon Mek Guns, Deffkoptas, Buggies, or a Battlewagon loaded with 4 rokkits and a kannon. Nothing really comes close to what Grotzookas do except for Lobbas but they are 1 less strength and shot which can make a big difference (but the range + barrage has its own benefits). Same goes for Grot Tanks which fortunately don't have the terrible cowardly grot rule and have invuln saves while being cheaper (and AV10 sadly). Issue with KMB is that its gets hot which for a vehicle is a 50% to lose a HP and it cost more than a Rokkit. If you want to kill a vehicle them spam it with Rokkits (from more cost effective sources), if you want to bypass 2+ armor then look to a KMB Mek Gun, or even a Zapp Gun (it averages around S7 which is enough to wound most MCs and its gets hots are a 3 point casualty instead of potentially half of your 55 point kan).
I could have sworn I read that vehicles do not suffer from get hot. But if that's not the case then, no, I definitely will not be taking KMBs. I just can't find that rule- I swore I read it somewhere. This is bugging me.
Oh, well screw KMKs then. Yeah, I'll probably go with grotzookas then. Big shootas seem like a waste, and I already have plenty of rockets from my tankbustas.
Also I am so hyped up to build them- I love the ork walkers. If only they were better I'd field tons of them, though I am considering getting more kans. A 55 point dreadnought, even if crippled in comparison, isn't terrible.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: Kanz are fun to build and paint, but thats about all their good for now a days.
The S7, AP2 doesnt threated anything in cc (even if they can manage to get there) T4 with fnp is pretty common.
And their shooting if meh. Might as well get 3 kannon mek guns for the price of 1 kan.
They got hit with the nerf bat for no reason and it knocked them onto to the storage shelf.
I beg to differ. I've seen my Kans smash stuff left and right. Yeah they are not str 10 ap2 any more, but str 7 is pretty good. The last time my kans made it in to CC they kill a keeper of secrets and murdered a bunch of hounds. Heck a unit of kans will give monstrous creatures a run for their money.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: Kanz are fun to build and paint, but thats about all their good for now a days.
The S7, AP2 doesnt threated anything in cc (even if they can manage to get there) T4 with fnp is pretty common.
And their shooting if meh. Might as well get 3 kannon mek guns for the price of 1 kan.
They got hit with the nerf bat for no reason and it knocked them onto to the storage shelf.
I beg to differ. I've seen my Kans smash stuff left and right. Yeah they are not str 10 ap2 any more, but str 7 is pretty good. The last time my kans made it in to CC they kill a keeper of secrets and murdered a bunch of hounds. Heck a unit of kans will give monstrous creatures a run for their money.
"last time they made it into cc"
So if they face another cc army like demons with little to no shooting they have a chance in cc.......
A bad unit that does something good on a rare occasion or vs a bad opponent doesnt make it a good unit.
They take up a valuable heavy support slot that is better used by lootas , mek gunz or battlewagons.
Only time i use mine is in fun games with the IA8 dredd mob list that makes them a fast attack choice.
I own 12 kanz, and since 7th and the new ork codex, they have hardly ever pulled their point cost in weight. But they look cool lol
Yeah I mostly plan to field them in fun games as a "second wave" sort of thing. I already bring a lot of armor (battlewagons and trukks) which rush up front, so the plan is the enemy will focus on the more immediate threat of about eighty orks of different flavors before they try to focus the kanz.
Im going to be playing a campaign vs GK and tank heavy IG.
I have a list sorted but i cant decide what mek guns to take. I wanted Zzap guns for AT, but im wondering if the Kustom mega kannons might be better? Theyre less accurate, but the strength isnt down to chance. And theyd also be handy against GK terminators.
If something, blasts are more accurate than solid shots. however, i've played with Zzap guns and they're not half bad if you keep them min. Also, with the new overheat rules they're less dangerous to your grots than KMK. Ammo runts are a must. And get ready to test that ld5 after overheats. Unfortunately, i had to go back to lootas after the Gets Hot! nerfs to blast weapons. Enjoyed some kmk before that.
Despite my constant complaints over the Killa Kan nerfs they aren't outright terrible. Armies that rely on hard hitting ranged weapons like Melta or Lascannons tend to not really be well equipped to deal with the number of bodies that a typical Kan squad has. Popping a Kan often times requires a few shots to take a single Kan out which is often times a bigger points investment than the walker itself. And with most Ork armies there are a lot of other threats coming in that pull pressure off the Kanz and onto that trukk loaded with Meganobz or those Warbikers. Once they can get into firing range those Killa Kans can unload a ton of firepower (Grotzookas are ) and are no chumps in CC against light/medium weight melee units. Things to watch out for are medium strength high volume of fire shooting (not like that's common ) or high strength melee attacks. Tau makes Kans cry while they actually do decently well against Space Marines.
koooaei wrote: If something, blasts are more accurate than solid shots. however, i've played with Zzap guns and they're not half bad if you keep them min. Also, with the new overheat rules they're less dangerous to your grots than KMK. Ammo runts are a must. And get ready to test that ld5 after overheats. Unfortunately, i had to go back to lootas after the Gets Hot! nerfs to blast weapons. Enjoyed some kmk before that.
Zzap guns seem like the Orks best answer to long range 2+ armor threats. The rules seem like they are designed to kill vehicles but the RNG strength is really detrimental to doing anything to high AV targets while it rarely outright prevents you from hurting an MC/GMC.
MagicMan wrote: Im going to be playing a campaign vs GK and tank heavy IG.
I have a list sorted but i cant decide what mek guns to take. I wanted Zzap guns for AT, but im wondering if the Kustom mega kannons might be better? Theyre less accurate, but the strength isnt down to chance. And theyd also be handy against GK terminators.
Thoughts
Smasha gunz are better, In my opinion, than Zzap guns. You're more likely to get a strength result that will actually be able to hurt the tanks, and there is no chance of overheating. Also, you're guaranteed at least S5 AP2 against termies. Also, because wording is different than with loota's shots, you get to determine the strength of each gun when you fire, so five guns will roll five different times, meaning you have a better chance of a higher strength attack against a tank than if you just rolled one dice for the whole squad (While you could roll an awesome 6, you have an equal chance of rolling a measly 1, so this way is actually more consistent if you want to attack armor).
Now, KMK seem like they'd be great against GK pallies, as they can ID them and are AP2, not sure how great they would be against your regular leman russes, as they're only glancing front armor on 6s.
Anecdotal story time: I've used squads of 5 smasha gunz, and they make great heavy infantry killers. Especially guys with multiple wounds. If a couple guns roll high, you can instant death T5 or lower multi-wound guys. I've had some luck instant deathing necron heavy destroyers (T5, 2 wounds). Mostly, now, I tend to use single tractor cannons to discourage flyers, and hold objectives for only 30 points, and I save points for my close combat dudes.
The GK im not super worried about because i have had success against them in the past. Only the Dreadknight scares me, but Orks really have nothing decent to use against it, so i try and ignore it if i can (willing to hear peoples opinions on how to take it down?)
Its the IG player im worried about, his 1000 pt list will likely be 4 Leman Russes, and two Chimeras with vets.
The only semi-reliable way to take on AV14 with Orks is to run at it and punch it, so I've got that covered, but I do want some long range AT to put the pressure on.
Which is why im taking a couple of Mek Guns. None of them are ''good'' against AV14. Zzap guns and Smasha gunz rely on good rolls, but KMK always hit at strength 8. Whuch is why im considering them...
Blitzabommers can drop some Armorbane bombs on the tanks if your worried about them. Weakness of tanks is that if they are shooting at transports they can probably destroy the transport but its hard for them to follow up against the passengers that get out. MANz missiles will scare the gak out of those tanks as those trukks fly up the field and into his face. Deffkoptas can outflank to hit the tanks side and rear armor and are very good at playing the MSU game. A good benefit of Zzap guns is that every glance or pen they do auto shakens them in addition to any damage table rolls so its a bit easier for them to shut down their shooting from range.
Dreadknights can be handled by sending 2 units after them (one MANz, one being a unit with fodder like grots, boyz, whatever). The fodder unit nob/character challenges the Dreadknight and will get horribly murdered in CC. The splash over attacks kills fodder models because his attacks are going into that unit. The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.
Vankraken wrote: The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.
I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.
I've found regular Nobz are better against it, in that they can have more numbers so you can let it mulch 5 un-upgraded nobz and hope the rest will do some work with a couple of PK's.
@ Your Zzap gun comment, thats exactly why i was considering them! Stopping a tank from shooting is just as good as blowing it up IMO. Well almost.
My list so far is :
Warboss, Bike, PK, Lucky Stikk
10 x Tankbustas + Nob with BP and BigChoppa
Trukk with Ram/Rokkit
10 x Tankbustas + Nob with BP and BigChoppa
Trukk with Ram/Rokkit
Boyz x 11
Boyz x 11
Deffkoptas with Rokkits x 2
Deffkoptas with Rokkits x 2
Warbikers x 4 Warbiker + Nob, PK
3 x Zzap Guns, 2x Ammo Runt, 4 Extra Gretchin.
The plan is to ram the bikers, and the trukks full of TB's right down the enemies throat. The Deffkoptas will fly infront of the Trukks to give them cover, and then zip off to grab Objectives and go for side armour.
The Warboss Biker unit will take advantage of 3+ cover save from Turbo-boosting and the Lukky stick.
The Ork Boyz go forward and grab an objective,
The Zzap guns provide fire support.
I'm never a fan of running more than 1 Deffkopta in a squad. The leadership checks after the first 2 wounds is too risky for me and they fall back 3d6 (if not off the table). Unfortunately, you only have 3 fast attacks without a second source. I think think points would be better spent else where.
The meganobs do come with their own sarge to take the challenge, but in 1000 pt game youre never realistically going to have more than 3 meganobs and a boss to throw at the DK.
Unfotunately he's able to kill them all before they even swing. Ive thought that big choppa relic might be worth taking, even if its not reliable.
I like having a warboss with the killchoppa for all MCs. Against dreadknights he needs a lot of shmucks to take the wounds for him though. So battlewagon boys could work. Other than that the only time I've fought them I had the tide and threw 80ish attacks and 10ish pk attacks at one and it died....
MagicMan wrote: I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.
Might I suggest meks? If DKs are something you will regularly go up against, then it's not a bad idea to take one as challenge fodder, and they only cost 15 points apiece. 25 if you want to give them a scorcha for some one-time use firepower before they get thrown in front of your important guys.
Something maybe like this?
Warboss: Bosspole, eavy armor, power klaw, and Kombi-scorcha
Boyz Squad: 9 boyz ('eavy armor optional to protect against explosions), 1 Boss nob with PK and Kombi-scorcha
Mek: Kombi-Scorcha
All in a trukk
This way, you dive into combat with the DK, have the Mek challenge it out, and all spillover hits the regular boys. Then, when I1 rolls around, you have 9 PK attacks to bring it down with. If you gave your Warboss DLS, you're hitting on 3s (If the DK is WS 4, that is), and you get to reroll your hits/wounds with the Warboss.
The scorchas are optional, and more of if you end up fighting against any horde. You now have three heavy flamers to hit your opponent with before you charge into his front lines, limiting overwatch, and evening the playing field in your favor. It might even do some damage against GK, and if your warboss isn't using MA, then you can use them as wall of death charge deterrent.
Vankraken wrote: The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.
I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.
MANz alone are bad against DKs but that's why I said use them with another unit. The fodder unit accepts or issues the challenge which forces the DK to attack that guy and the overkill splashes into his unit of boyz, grots, whatever. This leaves the MANz safe to swing away and rip that DK a new one. He can't kill the fodder unit's character and then direct his remaining attacks at the MANz because allocation attacks to multiple units it done before you swing and in a challenge all your attacks are directed towards the challenger.
While i have the attention of some wise Warboss's, how would you tackle heavy armour like Leman Russes? Ive never fought them with Orks before.
I just charge them with power klawed monsters. I've had gorkanauts and Morkanauts charge and kill whole squadrons. Basically any kind of power klawed guy is how I like to do it.
Depends on the Russes. One set of russes is AV 10 in the back, while the other is AV 11. On the AV 10 russes (Regular pie plate ones, eradicators and, vanquishers if memory serves) then a squad of trukk boyz (or small stormboyz squad) can glance it to death fairly easy by spamming S4 hits to the back armor, you might not even need to rely on a power klaw. The AV 11 russes (Punishers, Demolishers, and Executioners if I remember right) will be tougher to crack. Meganobz missiles will tear them open, as well as anything with multiple power klaws/big choppas. I use a nob biker squad with 2 power klaws and 2 big choppas, and they will wreck the face off of any regular tank that comes their way.
Now, that's all covering melee, if you want to play the range game, deffkoptas with TL RL are great to sneak in back armor shots. If nothing else, your IG player will direct some firepower against single choppers if they look threatening enough with their S8 goodness, and allow the rest of your army to come in without as much firepower going against your main force.
Personally, I'm more melee than range, so I'm a bit biased to the "Hit it with a big thing!" philosophy. Remember, in melee, a tank is only as good as its back armor. And if it doesn't move away from your squad that's pounding on it, you will get free swings against it in your opponent's assault phase (provided he didn't spend a ton of shooting trying to get your boyz off of his shaken russ )
Dreadknights are really hard for orks to deal with. Whatever happens it'll probably make most of it's points back and tie up some of your CC units. Blobs of 19+ grots can help, as they can only make so many attacks, and you have a lot of wounds for cheap. With 30 grots and 3 Runtherds with grot-prods you can probably weather its attacks, but you'll have to keep them at max coherency to catch it.
You could try a couple of outflanking buggies/koptas.
Sometimes if I know my opponent I find kommandos to be pretty useful if I take 5 kommandos (2 have rokkits) and add a rokkit mek. Since the Mek is not an IC you can actually attach it to the kommandos through the mek rule and still infiltrate the lot. For 80pts you get an infiltrating unit with stealth and 3 rokkits. At that points its not hard to setup near the sides in cover.
Your opponent then has to deal with shooting down the orks who will likely have a 4+ cover save, maybe 3+, and can go to ground for another +1 or take 3 rokkits to the side/rear of something each turn. At 80 points you can take 2-3 of these pretty easily then have some more mobile boys to move up the field non trukks, or wagons, or whatever. You can also upgrade the unit further to make it more of a threat. You could give the mek a killsaw and upgrade a boy to a nob with powerklaw....this gets close to 145pts and not sure its worth it- I prefer to keep these guys cheap and ranged threatening/harassing.
Yeah you can buy 5 tankbustas for cheaper (65 pts). They have more rokkits (5 vs 3) and tankhunters, but they don't have a transport yet. Are starting at least 24" away- likely outside of firing range your turn 1, and will end up firing at front armor first. They also have a worse cover save, which if you get shot at with some S8 pie plates cover is what might save you. That said you could also buy both
Tankbustas x6 in a looted wagon with 3x rokkits is pretty decent, as long as you don't roll that result for the looted wagon that makes it rush forward...
If you stun/shake/weapon destroy something you can fire at the other tank unit. Its better to make it so a few tanks cannot fire for a turn or two than to maybe kill 1 and leave the rest untouched. Spread the Dakka around.
Tankbustas! All the Tankbustas! I mean, if you've got 2 or 3 squads of them, you're likely to at least get side-armour, which I think on Russes is, 12? Something enough Rokkits will easily deal with, especially with Tankhunter. And Tankhammers are fantastic in melee against tanks as well, clearly.
Hey guys, Dark Eldar player here who thinks Blood Axes are cool. Considering adding a mercenary allied detachment for a bit of flavor.
What do you guys think of 30 shootas with a Painboy? Would hard armor be worth it? I'd use them to charge up the center of the table while the DE zoom up the flanks.
They'd make for a nice tough blob of a core. I mean, if there's anything Orks are good for, it's charging up the center of the table as a distraction.
'Eavy armour would probably be worth it if you have the points, though there's undoubtedly folks who would tell you to just take another 20 Boyz in a second squad for the price.
MHaruspex wrote: Hey guys, Dark Eldar player here who thinks Blood Axes are cool. Considering adding a mercenary allied detachment for a bit of flavor.
What do you guys think of 30 shootas with a Painboy? Would hard armor be worth it? I'd use them to charge up the center of the table while the DE zoom up the flanks.
Armored boyz is the same as more boyz, generally. But since you have a painboy...would you rather have more boyz with fnp, or more boyz without fnp? I'd take the armor for a 350 point mini-star. it WILL get blown up, it's not a reall deathstar, but hopefully it will disrupt the enemy movement phase long enough for the dark eldar to pick up some maelstrom points.
If you want something to blob up the center of the board, 30 orks with a painboy is one way to do that. If you get the armor they'll be as tough as MEQ against AP5+ and tougher against AP3- for cheaper than tacticals. Just remember that their offensive value for that many points (11/ork, and more for the painboy) is pretty low. shootas are only really good against blobs of conscripts and passable against every other form of infantry, and the shoota hurts their melee capabilities.
Also props to you for considering blood axes. They're a fairly interesting ork subgroup that really needs some love.
Sounds good, I'll see if I can't pick up some used Boyz. Would make a fun painting project after doing all these Kabalites.
How does the following look?
Allied Detachment
Painboy + Bosspole: 55pts
Boyz Mob, 26x Shoota Boyz, 3x Big Shoota Boyz, Boss Nob + Shoota + Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armor: 376pts
431pts is really quite a lot though. gnome_idea_what, do you think I'd be better off dropping the Shootas and Big Shootas, and just rolling with Sluggas on each Ork while having them run each turn?
For a distraction and potentially midfield objective grabbers you will probably want the shootas and big shootas. Eavy armor is worth it do to the painboy as well. For anything less than S8 you get to pretend you are less shooty necrons. If you change to a CAD and grab some gretchin they are great for backfield objective holding and very easy to hide out of LoS. Then you get a second HQ slot for a warboss with a pk for S10 AP2 or a weirboy pairs well with large shoota boy mobs. If you get da jump they can be a serious distraction for the dark eldar. Blood axes are also know for using stormboyz and kommandos so they could fit with your force as well being either stupid fast or sneaky. If you want to slog it up the board skip the slugfa boyz and go with stormboyz. They are slightly cheaper and less durable sjncd the painboy can't keep up but they are more likely to make it to combat imo. Slugga boy squads have a hard time making to combat since they are slow. The stormboyz do not have that problem. They can easily get turn 2 charges and while they may kill a lot of themselves depending on what else is on the board your opponent may have to shoot either them or the dark eldar whereas they can almost guarantee the slugga boys take at least 3 turns to reach them. If you want objective holders go shoota boys with eavy armor, speed go stormboyz, sneaky infiltrating/pinpoint outflank go kommandos with snikrot and special weapons to suit your purpose.
I'm not sure about the shootas vs sluggas question, but it would help to get some general info on what point values this is for and what else is in the army. Honestly my brain gaks out when I have to evaluate range and melee viability (more complicated and subjective than other things, and less comparing numbers), so I'm not really the best person to ask. Lots of other people on this thread can give you better advice.
With 30 of them, armored and with a painboy I'd choose choppa/slugga. There is a good chance they'll make it across the board and be in assault range on turn 2 or 3. Even if there is only 10 left, armored choppas with painboy make a hard hitting melee unit.
So how does cover behind walkers work? I fell in love with my killa kanz as models and now I want a deff dread just because of how damn cool they look. If I were to sit that dread (or infantry, for that matter) behind the kanz, would I get a cover save? I'm always hearing conflicting things about using vehicles as cover.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So how does cover behind walkers work? I fell in love with my killa kanz as models and now I want a deff dread just because of how damn cool they look. If I were to sit that dread (or infantry, for that matter) behind the kanz, would I get a cover save? I'm always hearing conflicting things about using vehicles as cover.
It depends on who is targeting them and their elevation with regards to how much the killa kan covers since you need at least 25% coverage in order to get a cover save. Generally speaking a Killa Kan in front of a deff dread would give it a cover save against any infantry sized models straight ahead of you. Against guys on the upper levels of buildings, it depends on the angle from which they can see you. Some larger vehicles may also be at a high enough elevation that you wouldn't receive cover but those are generally super-heavy sized. Ideally, you can use a laser pointer to emphasize TLOS but it's hit or miss depending on how agreeable your opponent is unfortunately.
On another note, I've had Snikrot and Kommandos built for a while now but I've never really gotten around to using them. I'm about to try out the burna battlewagon this Sunday but I've been thinking about using a Kommando heavy list to spice things up as alternative list to have a fluffy sneaky game against Genestealer Cults, what have your experiences with them been? What kind of army archetype (trukk rush, biker lists, dred mobs, footslogging like green tide, dakka lists) do they fit best in? Are they best taken as a spammed MSU unit with a couple of rokkits? Is Snikrot even worth taking?
I've run kommandos before, and unfortunately, have had to retire them due to my tournaments always being timed (No fun when your kommandos can only charge in the last turn of the game because you're out of time on turn 3).
There are three different ways I've been running them:
1: Minimum squad of Kommandos with two big shootas (or rokkit launchas if you prefer), infiltrating in some ruins to grab and sit on an objective. Have them go to ground every time your opponent shoots at them and they're getting a 2+ cover save. Give them a Nob with bosspole and Big Choppa for assault deterrent, and morale help if you need it.
2: Squad of Kommandos with Snikrot. These guys pop in wherever you want them (Typically the back lines) and can cause some havoc if your opponent loves to have artillery in the back. Have them come on though ruins/Cover, or else they will get blown off the table very easily. Remember that while Snikrot can chop up light infantry like a boss, you'll want a Power Klaw nob in there for a bosspole and some high S, low AP goodness. Think of Snikrot as more of a transport, able to get your boyz where you want, and he gives them shrouded on the first turn they come in, so that's a 2+ cover in ruins, 3+ cover in regular terrain, or just a 5+ cover if you HAVE to have them in the open.
3: Snikrot's red Skull Kommandoz formation. You have to take 4 kommando squads, and one has snikrot in it. You get to have the whole formation come in on one roll (multiple threat overload, anyone?), and they ALL get shrouded instead of stealth on the first turn they come in, as long as they didn't shoot anything. Now, this can become an incredibly expensive formation, but if you keep most of the squads at a min (4 Kommandos, Nob with Big Choppa and Bosspole, for example) The price isn't that bad.
Some tricks with this formation: If you don't have much cover, you can stick a small/cheaper squad of Kommandos in front of your more expensive ones to give them a 3+ cover save (5+ for shooting though models, and shrouded).
Don't give these kommandos big shootas or rokkit launchas unless you've got a really good plan. Shooting them on the first turn they come in will make your loose your shrouded, and you're an ork after all, odds are you won't hit what you're aiming at anyways. Shrouded is totally worth it.
If you do want to take special weapons, take burnas. They're crazy expensive, trust me, but you're not just paying for instantly hitting what's under the template, but you're also paying for the fact that it's on a kommando who can pop up right next to the enemy. If you catch your opponent with some clumped up troops, it can be well worth it.
You can use your less expensive squads as suicide squads to take enemy overwatch. Especially if they have a bunch of cover ignoring flamers.
Don't spread your small squads out too far apart unless you need to do some objective grabbing, or are up against something you know you can kill with just one squad (like a tank with AV 10 rear armor). In the end, Kommandos are just regular 6+ boys with a cooler name, move though cover, and the ability to terrify the enemy with popping up in their backfield. You have to win by numbers if you're hitting anything that can hit you back halfway decently.
Edit: As for what army they work best in? I would say if you're using the formation or just snikrot you'll want a fast army so you can pin them in on their deployment zone, that way they're sandwiched between your kommandos and main forces.
Is snikrot worth it? Yes. So much yes. If you want them to outflank, he gives them certainty. You don't roll where they end up, you choose, and you can do it on any table edge. So that's awesome. Just make sure the kommando unit is worth the 60 point "transport" and shrouded protection.
I am a fan of the snikrot formation, with one large group, and three MSU groups.
The above post is great for kommando use. I just want to add one. I like using a maxed out red skull kommando formation with a green tide. This way you have 60 boys behind them and many more in front. Its really messed with some opponents to the point where they wont leave their deployment zone because they have so little space to move. Then when you bring the kommandos kn if there is space you can go on their edge and if not use any of the other 3 edges depending on situations.
Eldar had 6 units of Scat Bikes, four Farseers on Bikes, Wraithknight, 3 Fliers in a formation, 3 Nightspinners in a formtstion and possibly some other junk. All for 2000 points!!
I just can't believe how cheap everything Eldar is. Two biggest issues was the triangular deployment zone which meant I had 6 units in reserves and psychic powers. So many Dead Orks.
MVP this game was Ghaz with his 2++ save. He and his boyz brought done the Wraithknight to a single wound by end of turn 5. Would have killed it sooner but it had Invisiblity for two whole turns.
My lists best matchup right now is eldar. I run a lot of av13 and here at least they mostly spam S6 with a wraithknight and some cannons that I out range. The discount stompa is great.
Interested in some feedback on Kustom Mega Kannons vs Smasha Gunz. Palleus' comments a few days ago about Smasha gunz made me take another look at them. Here's what I'm evaluating:
Kustom Mega Kannons (KMK):
Small blast template
33% chance of direct hit; 66% chance to scatter (minus BS3).
S8 AP2 Gets Hot!
Smasha Gun:
Single Target
50% chance to hit (BS3).
S4+d6 AP1.
I've fielded KMK's against MEQ and Necrons, and they do pretty well. When the blast template hits multiple models that's fun. Wounding most things on 2+ is great as well. The drawbacks are the blast scatter, and the Gets Hot! That's always a bummer.
I'm tempted by the Smasha gunz. Minimum of S5, so they'll wound T5 units on 4's. Even if you roll average (S7), you can still wound T5 units on 2's. Plus if I roll high, I can double out those T5 units, and the AP1 cuts through all their armour. Very tempting. The downsides are that Smasha gunz are single target, and possibly rolling low on strength.
Specifically, I'm thinking of the example of Necron Heavy Destroyers. Those things are annoying. (OK, all Necron units are annoying, but anyway...) Sure I could throw units of Boyz at them to tie them up, but might as well pick off a few at range, you know? Like I said, I've had some luck with the KMK, but if I could double them out then I'm lowering their RP and denying armour saves.
Of course, I could just bring both. That's much more Orky.
Cleatus wrote: Interested in some feedback on Kustom Mega Kannons vs Smasha Gunz. Palleus' comments a few days ago about Smasha gunz made me take another look at them. Here's what I'm evaluating:
Kustom Mega Kannons (KMK): Small blast template 33% chance of direct hit; 66% chance to scatter (minus BS3). S8 AP2 Gets Hot!
Smasha Gun: Single Target 50% chance to hit (BS3). S4+d6 AP1.
I've fielded KMK's against MEQ and Necrons, and they do pretty well. When the blast template hits multiple models that's fun. Wounding most things on 2+ is great as well. The drawbacks are the blast scatter, and the Gets Hot! That's always a bummer. I'm tempted by the Smasha gunz. Minimum of S5, so they'll wound T5 units on 4's. Even if you roll average (S7), you can still wound T5 units on 2's. Plus if I roll high, I can double out those T5 units, and the AP1 cuts through all their armour. Very tempting. The downsides are that Smasha gunz are single target, and possibly rolling low on strength. Specifically, I'm thinking of the example of Necron Heavy Destroyers. Those things are annoying. (OK, all Necron units are annoying, but anyway...) Sure I could throw units of Boyz at them to tie them up, but might as well pick off a few at range, you know? Like I said, I've had some luck with the KMK, but if I could double them out then I'm lowering their RP and denying armour saves.
Of course, I could just bring both. That's much more Orky.
Right now I find the KMK still edges out the Smasha Gun overall considering they have the same points cost. The reliability of having S8 all the time is IMO worth the Gets Hot! risk since you can mitigate the losses with extra crewmen and a Mekboy being attached to their unit to give them some better leadership for the inevitable losses they'll suffer. Against guys like MEQ's and Necrons doubling out their infantry units means no pesky FNP or decreased reanimation protocol saves for Necrons which can make a huge difference. While the smasha guns can exceed the strength of the KMK, their single shot nature, as you noted, makes them suited mainly to taking out multi-wound models or vehicles because of the high strength cap and AP1. So if you're struggling against cracking open transports and you want longer range compared to that of tankbustas then the Smasha Gunz are for you. For a more general, anti-heavy infantry artillery option the KMK wins out. Like you said, you could have both but I still think the KMK is our go-to weapon given that we have Meganobz and tankbustas to deal with the tougher things KMK can't crack very well.
Also I managed to try out my burnawagon list this week, it was an Ork horde detachment with a Warboss in 'Eavy Armour with the Lucky Stikk with a Painboy and KFF Mek in a unit of Burna Boyz riding in a battlewagon supported by 3 units of 'Ard Boyz in Trukks followed by 3 separate outflanking Deffkoptas units. I was facing against an Eldar Guardian Battlehost with D-Cannon Vaul's Wrath Support Battery and 20 man Guardian squads with 2 Eldar Missile Launchers each. They were also supported by a Fire Prism. It was a very close game that I think was helped by the game ending on T5 and me having the momentum of good tactical objective cards in the beginning (we were playing the contact lost maelstrom mission) where I effectively kept one flank and the center under constant siege while the other side was where all my deffkoptas popped up trying to glance his vypers to death. I was surprised by how well the guardians held their own against my 'ard boyz in close combat and several times they won combat to drive the farseer and his guardian unit closer to their table edge but unfortunately I got greedy and tried to multi-charge his D-cannons and his fire prism since I had Big Game Hunter and I wanted to stop the barrage of D that his cannons kept doing on my Warboss' unit. I won barely with my 9 VP to his 8VP, me getting lucky with Slay the Warlord by him failing his leadership test for Perils on his Farseer and not having a warp charge left to save himself with ghosthelm (he rolled a 1 on the perils chart!). The burnawagon did well in clearing out the guardians and the combined power of the KFF and FNP meant they stood up even against scatter laser fire. It was only when the D blasts started hitting that I started taking real casualties. Overall, burnas are a unit you have to build your army around I guess unsurprisingly and while I know this wasn't the most orthodox Eldar list or the most competitive, it was good seeing that burnas still have some unique utility from being versatile enough to have decent CC and anti-infantry ranged clout (especially with WS5 from the Lucky Stikk) and a unit that's scary to charge thanks to flamer template overwatch.
Thanks so far for the advice regarding kommandos, I'll definitely get around to trying a MSU Kommando Snikrot Red Skullz Kommando formation.
I've run kmk before the nerf. Was ok back than. The most epic moment with them was when 1 kmk blasted the d-flamer wwp drop off the board with a direct hit. Though, after the nerf to blast gets hots it's way more risky and not worth running in smaller units. Still somewhat ok in 3+ strong squads but i just bring tankbustas and lootas now.
The smasha gunz - i brought a squad of 3 and they managed to do...nothing special vs ig. Glanced some vehicles a few times and managed to get a stun once. Didn't pay off.
Lobbas are still the best - like they used to be in the previous codex. I take a squad of 5 with 5 ammo runts in every game. They tend to be deadlier than kmk against anything < t7 due to multipple barrage rules and better range and the fact that most things have cover or invul anyway. They're also more stable. Can't deal with av 12+ side vehicles though. But on the other hand, a lobba is WAY more likely to kill a wivern than a kmk in a real game.
Also I managed to try out my burnawagon list this week, it was an Ork horde detachment with a Warboss in 'Eavy Armour with the Lucky Stikk with a Painboy and KFF Mek in a unit of Burna Boyz riding in a battlewagon supported by 3 units of 'Ard Boyz in Trukks followed by 3 separate outflanking Deffkoptas units. I was facing against an Eldar Guardian Battlehost with D-Cannon Vaul's Wrath Support Battery and 20 man Guardian squads with 2 Eldar Missile Launchers each. They were also supported by a Fire Prism. It was a very close game that I think was helped by the game ending on T5 and me having the momentum of good tactical objective cards in the beginning (we were playing the contact lost maelstrom mission) where I effectively kept one flank and the center under constant siege while the other side was where all my deffkoptas popped up trying to glance his vypers to death. I was surprised by how well the guardians held their own against my 'ard boyz in close combat and several times they won combat to drive the farseer and his guardian unit closer to their table edge but unfortunately I got greedy and tried to multi-charge his D-cannons and his fire prism since I had Big Game Hunter and I wanted to stop the barrage of D that his cannons kept doing on my Warboss' unit. I won barely with my 9 VP to his 8VP, me getting lucky with Slay the Warlord by him failing his leadership test for Perils on his Farseer and not having a warp charge left to save himself with ghosthelm (he rolled a 1 on the perils chart!). The burnawagon did well in clearing out the guardians and the combined power of the KFF and FNP meant they stood up even against scatter laser fire. It was only when the D blasts started hitting that I started taking real casualties. Overall, burnas are a unit you have to build your army around I guess unsurprisingly and while I know this wasn't the most orthodox Eldar list or the most competitive, it was good seeing that burnas still have some unique utility from being versatile enough to have decent CC and anti-infantry ranged clout (especially with WS5 from the Lucky Stikk) and a unit that's scary to charge thanks to flamer template overwatch.
Thanks so far for the advice regarding kommandos, I'll definitely get around to trying a MSU Kommando Snikrot Red Skullz Kommando formation.
Great game!
About snikrot formation, i've run it a few times and they do need reserve manipulations. I've tried 2x5 + 2x15 with pk nobz. Though, it's probably too expensive. Maybe 3x5 and 1x15 with snikrot and pk nob would do better. Don't forget, they're regular boyz in melee and vs ignore cover shooting, so they'll end pretty quickly.
koooaei wrote: I've run kmk before the nerf. Was ok back than. The most epic moment with them was when 1 kmk blasted the d-flamer wwp drop off the board with a direct hit. Though, after the nerf to blast gets hots it's way more risky and not worth running in smaller units. Still somewhat ok in 3+ strong squads but i just bring tankbustas and lootas now.
The smasha gunz - i brought a squad of 3 and they managed to do...nothing special vs ig. Glanced some vehicles a few times and managed to get a stun once. Didn't pay off.
Lobbas are still the best - like they used to be in the previous codex. I take a squad of 5 with 5 ammo runts in every game. They tend to be deadlier than kmk against anything < t7 due to multipple barrage rules and better range and the fact that most things have cover or invul anyway. They're also more stable. Can't deal with av 12+ side vehicles though. But on the other hand, a lobba is WAY more likely to kill a wivern than a kmk in a real game.
Also I managed to try out my burnawagon list this week, it was an Ork horde detachment with a Warboss in 'Eavy Armour with the Lucky Stikk with a Painboy and KFF Mek in a unit of Burna Boyz riding in a battlewagon supported by 3 units of 'Ard Boyz in Trukks followed by 3 separate outflanking Deffkoptas units. I was facing against an Eldar Guardian Battlehost with D-Cannon Vaul's Wrath Support Battery and 20 man Guardian squads with 2 Eldar Missile Launchers each. They were also supported by a Fire Prism. It was a very close game that I think was helped by the game ending on T5 and me having the momentum of good tactical objective cards in the beginning (we were playing the contact lost maelstrom mission) where I effectively kept one flank and the center under constant siege while the other side was where all my deffkoptas popped up trying to glance his vypers to death. I was surprised by how well the guardians held their own against my 'ard boyz in close combat and several times they won combat to drive the farseer and his guardian unit closer to their table edge but unfortunately I got greedy and tried to multi-charge his D-cannons and his fire prism since I had Big Game Hunter and I wanted to stop the barrage of D that his cannons kept doing on my Warboss' unit. I won barely with my 9 VP to his 8VP, me getting lucky with Slay the Warlord by him failing his leadership test for Perils on his Farseer and not having a warp charge left to save himself with ghosthelm (he rolled a 1 on the perils chart!). The burnawagon did well in clearing out the guardians and the combined power of the KFF and FNP meant they stood up even against scatter laser fire. It was only when the D blasts started hitting that I started taking real casualties. Overall, burnas are a unit you have to build your army around I guess unsurprisingly and while I know this wasn't the most orthodox Eldar list or the most competitive, it was good seeing that burnas still have some unique utility from being versatile enough to have decent CC and anti-infantry ranged clout (especially with WS5 from the Lucky Stikk) and a unit that's scary to charge thanks to flamer template overwatch.
Thanks so far for the advice regarding kommandos, I'll definitely get around to trying a MSU Kommando Snikrot Red Skullz Kommando formation.
Great game!
About snikrot formation, i've run it a few times and they do need reserve manipulations. I've tried 2x5 + 2x15 with pk nobz. Though, it's probably too expensive. Maybe 3x5 and 1x15 with snikrot and pk nob would do better. Don't forget, they're regular boyz in melee and vs ignore cover shooting, so they'll end pretty quickly.
I agree Lobbas are the best and have had similar issues with Smasha and KMK. I still bring a unit of both Lobbas and KMK's with max ammo runts and extra grots. Lobbas are often very reliable MVP whereas KMK are literal hot or miss units. Usually something spectacular or not much at all.
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Tibs Ironblood wrote: Your a better man than I. I would have just declined the game. :p
I'm not ashamed to say I felt that way before the game started AND all while the Wraithknight had Invis. However this is a league match and there are various points for getting tabled, major loss, minor loss, tie (which is rare), minor win, major win, and massacre. So getting a minor loss isn't too bad considering Ghaz was able to annoy the holy hell out of my opponent.
There was a secondary objective of getting crystals in a poison cloud back to your base so you can upgrade your Character throughout the league. My Bikerboss went into this game with Eternal Warrior, Rampage, and Skilled Rider. Next week I'll be able to give him more attacks or better armor save or something else.
It's always better to play and loss than not play at all.
About snikrot formation, i've run it a few times and they do need reserve manipulations. I've tried 2x5 + 2x15 with pk nobz. Though, it's probably too expensive. Maybe 3x5 and 1x15 with snikrot and pk nob would do better. Don't forget, they're regular boyz in melee and vs ignore cover shooting, so they'll end pretty quickly.
Thanks! The game was quite fun and down to the wire which I find are the ones that are most memorable.
I'll definitely try out the latter composition for the red skull commandos formation, and being that they're multiple disruptive backfield units (also great for linebreaker) what type of army have you tried using alongside them? A mechanized Ork rush army or would green tide do better? Either way I feel like we need to time it with a force that can reach their front lines around the same time as the kommandos arriving to make the pincer move complete.
I'm thinking I'd run some burnas in Snikrot's formation just in case they get charged.
Good point on the reserve manipulations, I'd probably have to run an Orky Defence Line or Bastion with a comms relay to give me that extra edge.
I love me my mekgunz, they are fun to run. Here are some combos that are good.
Kmk x5 with ma bigmek, great for heavy infantry and good against mid armor vehicles. I would ammo runts on everything (though it deosnt help against gets hot, at least they get to reroll scatter). The hg gives them snp and ld8, and a 2up if he stands and tanks in front. For added dakka give him the telly port blast and he can blast the close targets (give him 3 ammo runts to reroll scatter or the gets hot on his kmb).
Lobba x5 with mek. Get ld 7 while being one our best ranged anti infantry. Everything gets ammo runts.
4 Kannons and 1 traktor Kannon and a ma bigmek. I haven't tried it yet, but in theory it's sound (famous last words ). The unit can do good shooting against ground, and very decent shooting against air (since the Kannons can snapshot air with the traktor, and the traktor can help against ground ). The Bigmek does the same as the kmk one. This squad is cheap and effective, and if you face light infantry blobs the Kannons can small blast. And of course ammo runts for everyone one.
Big mek ogprah winky says "YOU GET AN AMMO RUNT, AND U GET A RUNT, AND U GET ONE, AND U, AND U,!!"
Grimskul wrote: Either way I feel like we need to time it with a force that can reach their front lines around the same time as the kommandos arriving to make the pincer move complete.
I ran them with a mechanised list. Unfortunately, this formation doesn't synergise too well with...anything in regular 1500-1850 games. They get better in larger games when you start lacking place. A mech list is oriented towards t2 charging. And footslogging list won't reach the opponent t3 if you have too many points in reserves and support. You still need shooters like mek guns, tankbustas and lootas and now you're forced to spend points on a fortification with comms relay if you hate eldar allies with an autarch that are a better option, unfortunately. Footsloggas are allready meh and when you take even more points away from them, they're even worse. However, it could probably work with a mix. Anywayz, i'd not try to find synergy there, just use them as is and try to not overinvest.
I find flamers too costly on such easy-to-remove models. Tried running double bigshootas on 5-strong units that screen the larger - more important squads that don't shoot for re-rollable cover. I'm not sure if it's worth it - needs further playtesting. I have Snikrot and when i finally manage to paint him, i'll run this formation again. But i'm using vsg lately, so won't be able to get comms relay.
The thing that i can tell from this few games i used them. They're gona be completely useless vs some lists and really good against others for obvious reasons. They're unreliable due to being forced to start in reserves and orks are even worse at it cause we aren't particularly tough to afford expensive reserves and still controle the board. There won't be enough terrain to hide everyone as they most likely go for the backlines and all the cover there is allready occupied, so you'll need to screen your more important units with smaller ones for 3+ re-rollable cover save.
Grimskul wrote: Either way I feel like we need to time it with a force that can reach their front lines around the same time as the kommandos arriving to make the pincer move complete.
I ran them with a mechanised list. Unfortunately, this formation doesn't synergise too well with...anything in regular 1500-1850 games. They get better in larger games when you start lacking place. A mech list is oriented towards t2 charging. And footslogging list won't reach the opponent t3 if you have too many points in reserves and support. You still need shooters like mek guns, tankbustas and lootas and now you're forced to spend points on a fortification with comms relay if you hate eldar allies with an autarch that are a better option, unfortunately. Footsloggas are allready meh and when you take even more points away from them, they're even worse. However, it could probably work with a mix. Anywayz, i'd not try to find synergy there, just use them as is and try to not overinvest.
I find flamers too costly on such easy-to-remove models. Tried running double bigshootas on 5-strong units that screen the larger - more important squads that don't shoot for re-rollable cover. I'm not sure if it's worth it - needs further playtesting. I have Snikrot and when i finally manage to paint him, i'll run this formation again. But i'm using vsg lately, so won't be able to get comms relay.
The thing that i can tell from this few games i used them. They're gona be completely useless vs some lists and really good against others for obvious reasons. They're unreliable due to being forced to start in reserves and orks are even worse at it cause we aren't particularly tough to afford expensive reserves and still controle the board. There won't be enough terrain to hide everyone as they most likely go for the backlines and all the cover there is allready occupied, so you'll need to screen your more important units with smaller ones for 3+ re-rollable cover save.
Yeah, I use a good amount of terrain in my games but chances are the MSU squads of Kommandos are going to be mobile cover for the other ones. Thanks for the feedback on how they've done so far, I'm mainly banking on my opponents overreacting to their eventual arrival and being able to contest objectives from my opponents in the backfield (most only take their codex-formations than CAD's so objective secured is less of a problem). The one army I would never bother taking them against is Tau because of all their ignores cover shenanigans and how you need every boy you can get on board to get in his face on time to win the game. And I agree on the burnas being expensive but on Snikrot's unit you may as well given that it will be largest one, everyone else would be bare naked.
thenewgozoku wrote: I was wondering to try and boost the Green tide formation with Tzeentch powers to try and improve the units FNP. What you guys think?
There's only a few witchfires that would allow you to "accidentally" target your green tide which is the blast ones and the beam psychic power. Having to invest in a HQ psyker with higher ML whose sole purpose is to get a better likelihood of getting these powers seems like a waste of points on allies that are just there to "maybe" buff (remember there's still a 1/3 chance you fail your toughness test and you just suffered unnecessary casualties). That's also assuming you have enough warp charges to reliably pass and then successfully wound with said powers. I think investing on actual support elements for the green tide would be a lot better rather than banking on a lot of RNG that may or may not buff your green tide.
Its only 345 points for Fateweaver and 3 Nurgling bases as an ally slot.
You automatically gives you the beam power you need for the +1 FNP. You need to overlap 1-2 ork models, 3 if you really scared you're going to fail (out of 100+ models minimum).
You need to roll a strength die for the beam but it's D6+4, so a minimum of S5 vs T4. So you need to pass a 3+ to wound with no armour saves allowed. (Worst case Strength - most of the time you need 2+) If you hover the beam over 2 models, you have a 11% to fail to wound and if you hover over 3 models it's roughly a 4% chance to fail (again- this is S5). You pick where the beam goes and how Fateweaver moves so you can also clip 2-3 orcs that are out of cover.
Now to the Toughness check - arguably the most important roll for this strategy. You need to get a 1-4 on the die roll in order to get the FNP. Good news, you now have Fateweaver's reroll. With a 4 (or lower) and a reroll, you're looking at the same odds as Daemon player's Grim' chances - 11% fail rate.
Is it a viable strategy? Yes. Is it likely you'll get +1 FNP every turn? Yes. Is it competitive? Kind of.
You have to remember that most armies that have answers to the Green Tide will still beat it. And the armies that don't have great answers to Green Tide is will try to ignore as best as possible. The increase to FNP on 100 models usually doesn't change how the enemy will play against the list. They will either still kill it, or still ignore it.
My friend played against it in a local GT about a year ago. It's funny to watch but he tied up the tide with a Necron Deathstar with a 2+ Armor reroll 1s for saves and a 4++ FNP reroll 1s - worst case - 3++ reroll 1s, into 5+ FNP, reroll 1s (against Power Klaws, but they were too far away for a majority of the game as the Necron player charge the correct "side" of the Tide). After the first 2 assault phases, neither side did any wounds and they stopped rolling for it for the rest of the game. I mention this because this would be an "answer" to the tide - thus the FNP played no role.
Vitali Advenil wrote: That's why I doubt I'll rub greentide. It's a huge point sink that gets easily tarpitted.
It is a very hit or miss formation. It's good for board control but it heavily relies on support to actually grab objectives since it lacks objective secured and can hold only to one objective at a time. If anything it's normally a specific counter-meta option to guys more used to taking down MC's and vehicles.
Saythings wrote: Beams target 2 points on the board. Also, they are Come the Apocalypse allies - not that it matters.
Orks & Deamons are Desperate allies.
Finally got home to the BRB...you can beam freindlies just fine. Cool! And with tzeench (hopefully) getting an upgrade soon, orks might take thousand suns allies--who knows maybe they will get it.
If so, would it be possible to get the tide to 2+++ in 3 turns? Could it be done quicker?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are there any flickering fire blast weapons that can be fired in the shooting phase? If so, then it's possible to get 2 toughness tests in one turn...possibly getting to 2+++ on turn 2.
Saythings wrote: Beams target 2 points on the board. Also, they are Come the Apocalypse allies - not that it matters.
Orks & Deamons are Desperate allies.
Finally got home to the BRB...you can beam freindlies just fine. Cool! And with tzeench (hopefully) getting an upgrade soon, orks might take thousand suns allies--who knows maybe they will get it.
If so, would it be possible to get the tide to 2+++ in 3 turns? Could it be done quicker?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are there any flickering fire blast weapons that can be fired in the shooting phase? If so, then it's possible to get 2 toughness tests in one turn...possibly getting to 2+++ on turn 2.
My bad on which sort of ally. I just knew it didn't matter to begin with. Also, its 1 Toughness check at the end of the phase. So even if you hit the Tide with 2 Tzeentch powers, it would still remain as 1 Toughness check. Turn3 is the fastest. But it's not the durability that makes the Tide bad, it's its lack of mobility and utility.
I use Blitz Brigades with some decently good success but its very much a 1850 or 2000 point list and it is very much a "rock" list in the 40k equivalent to rock paper scissors. Great for protecting your Boyz, Gitz, Bustas, Burnas, etc from shooting and the scout move gives you a lot of ability to adjust to enemy deployments to make sure you have better cover turn 1 and almost always in range for turn 2 charging. Blitz Brigade is also really good for shooty units as Orks typically have short range and low durability so that 12" scout can put Killkannons, Shoota Boyz, Tankbustas, Flash Gitz, and Burna Boyz in range a lot faster and for most of them can put them in turn 1 shooting range without even needing to move during the turn. What it is bad at is dealing with heavy hitter melee units which want to close the gap while you just wasted 600+ points in armored transports with very little kill potential. Also its mediocre to the more deep strike heavy lists which tend to be able to drop in from behind your wagons although you can sometimes pull off some "circle da wagon" strategies to minimize damage or just unload the boyz if its stuff like Grav/Melta drop pods. Its not a win all games sort of army but it gives some flexibility (at a rather steep points cost) and is the one way I have found to give the Orks a real fighting chance against the Tau. I'm sure more skilled players in tougher metas than I will have different results but this is my experience as a fool who thinks Grotzookas are the business and that Flash Gitz should be in every list I run
Hey so I got a few orks for a kill team and think i might invest in building another ork army ( traded my last one in 5th) what are some good builds to base a list off of these days? Can trukk lists still do good loaded with tank busters and burnas? How about stormboyz in the current scene? Dont want to do a tide, want to do more of a mech list or walker list. thanks
Solosam47 wrote: Hey so I got a few orks for a kill team and think i might invest in building another ork army ( traded my last one in 5th) what are some good builds to base a list off of these days? Can trukk lists still do good loaded with tank busters and burnas? How about stormboyz in the current scene? Dont want to do a tide, want to do more of a mech list or walker list. thanks
Solosam47 wrote: Hey so I got a few orks for a kill team and think i might invest in building another ork army ( traded my last one in 5th) what are some good builds to base a list off of these days? Can trukk lists still do good loaded with tank busters and burnas? How about stormboyz in the current scene? Dont want to do a tide, want to do more of a mech list or walker list. thanks
I run bikes in kill team for all the dakka.
I was thinking about bikes but I went with burnas and stormboyz for kill team as a fun deal, might round it out with boys or nobs, dont have my codex yet so I dont know the new points for them as of 7th yet. Mainly looking though to see whats good up in the 1500 to 1850 range these days for orks
I know it's outdated, and you might have to do conversions, but the FW dreddmob has very good ork tanks /transports, a good starter for A mech list (now ork walkers are still mediocre, this coming from me who loves my walkers), but the FW tanks can bring good dakka for decent points and keep the boys alive with av12 and 13.
Solosam47 wrote: Hey so I got a few orks for a kill team and think i might invest in building another ork army ( traded my last one in 5th) what are some good builds to base a list off of these days? Can trukk lists still do good loaded with tank busters and burnas? How about stormboyz in the current scene? Dont want to do a tide, want to do more of a mech list or walker list. thanks
Trukk lists are tough because of how easy they pop. Meganobz in trukks is fine because their AP2 will save them when it explodes. I can't speak for burnaz, as I'm still building those, but a trukk full of 10 tankbustas does work. It can mulch a meq squad, pop light to medium tanks, and speed around to get great position. Stormboyz, sadly, are pretty terrible. They're cheap, sure, but their one cool special rule forces dangerous terrain tests, and with a 6+ save they're going to die. This also makes landing in cover risky. Plus, they're basically very fast boyz. You can get the same results with a trukk full of boyz, which I don't consider good.
Also, our walkers are pretty trash. Kanz are okay since you can field so many of them, and grotzookas are fantastic if you manage to get into range. Dreads look amazing, and if you can actually get them into combat then you're in good shape. The problem is they're slow. Don't take them against gunlines, not because they won't survive, but because they'll never get there. I fielded 3 kanz and one dread the other day against guard. They basically did nothing except get one shot off that killed off 8 vets- though they somehow survived being shot by a baneblade. Go figure.
Truck lists work if you also run Voidshield Generator. I run my bully boyz in trukks with VSG and it works ok. Also, i always have spare trukks nearby to pick them up if their trukk gets wrecked.
koooaei wrote: Truck lists work if you also run Voidshield Generator. I run my bully boyz in trukks with VSG and it works ok. Also, i always have spare trukks nearby to pick them up if their trukk gets wrecked.
Keep in mind the nerfs the VSG got though with the FAQ's. Now it's affected by everything like Gauss, Grav and even doesn't block Markerlights anymore. So while it certainly helps out trukk lists you have to make sure you have good placement for where you place the bubble and the trukks to minimize enemy fire.
koooaei wrote: Truck lists work if you also run Voidshield Generator. I run my bully boyz in trukks with VSG and it works ok. Also, i always have spare trukks nearby to pick them up if their trukk gets wrecked.
Keep in mind the nerfs the VSG got though with the FAQ's. Now it's affected by everything like Gauss, Grav and even doesn't block Markerlights anymore. So while it certainly helps out trukk lists you have to make sure you have good placement for where you place the bubble and the trukks to minimize enemy fire.
Those draft FAQs went through?
Either way this VSG idea isnt too bad, maybe just do a few battlewagons if the trukks are too flimsy
Well, in all fairness it shouldn't have been immune to grav in the first place. And in my experience it grants an adequate level of 1-st turn protection even vs shooty armies. not telling about mixed armies that have shooting as a secondary aspect. Like when i faced a csm deathstar army with 2 shooty knights. Knights spent half the game downing those regenerating shields and dealing hp to trukks instead of just wrecking them outright with s6 from the get go.
It's not a broken thing but i've found myself running VSG in all my mech lists with great results. When you have manz in trucks in cover protected by vsg with trukks with cheap naked boyz nearby it's an almost guaranteed safe 1-st turn. And what's even more important is that it's cheaper than battlewagonz. And WAY better vs grav, scatlasers and d-weapons. And even melta cause trukks are more resilient to melta than wagons. And you only loose 35 pts instead of 115+.
Question guys
Me and My Friends are Organizing a "Zombie Survival" where we have to fill out objectives (power up radio beacon etc) set in a hive city (open map, we can go anywhere we choose) where as the game progresses, the more tough enemies appear (firstly it will be GEQs, Then MEQs, then stuff like Raveners, Ogryns ect and finally Monsterous Creatues)
Now, i am Creating a Warboss for this event, and i feel the of Da Choppa Of Da Ragnarork is the best bet, as the game will last longer than 6 turns and the 'Grand Destiny' rule will work well with the whole enemy progession system
I also feel Kill-Dakka *may* be a good option, as half of the options are good for vs Hordes
You thoughts guys?
Character Point Limit is 200pts (if you want to create a warboss/Big Mek that would be better suited) (there is also a system for every 10 points not spent, you get a reroll, so you dont need to max out at 200)
Mega Armor and Da Luckky Stikk would just be OP for that. 2+ rerollable armor and you have S10 killing power and you can reroll to hit and wound.
If you want to be sporting you can take the Killdakka for some shooting power and with Mega Armor you have relentless so you can move and shoot those heavy weapons.
Guys any advice on how to stop WKs with an average list - ie no major tailoring etc.
Im at a bit of a loss. They have such a huge threat radius coupled with survivability =/
Ive found sword and board with 2 scats to be the worst build to face.
T8, fnp, 5++ and 6w is so tough to chew through with Ork shooting and in hth outside of a dedicated tailored mega unit, they munch hard.
My "average" orks list had 10x12 boyz (double Orkurion cores) and 14 solo Deffkoptas. It also had 2x3 KMK artillery. I only played against 2 Eldar lists (both including a single WK).
I had the firepower to kill the WK - but it's unrealistic.
With a 5+ FNP and T8 (not even counting 5++ from sword and board), it would take 18 (Str8 AP3) wounds to kill him. With Orks shooting and my particular list, it only took 2 rounds of shooting on averages to kill him. That being said, I only did 5 wounds total (over the course of 2 games). Arguably I had the perfect list (ideal firepower - S8 AP3+) to kill a WK and I haven't even come close to doing so. In hindsight, I'd much rather keep shooting scat bikes or D-artillery, even buffed up council. WKs are way too durable and it'll take a lot more than 325 pts of shooting to kill it at a reasonable rate.
The most success I've had against containing a WK is wrapping 10mans around my objectives and units I want to keep safer.
Since I'm using Orkurion, I get 2 chances are army-wide fearless (via Waaagh!) - those games, I throw 10man after 10man at them and with a average luck each 10man holds them a full game turn.
commander dante wrote: Question guys
Me and My Friends are Organizing a "Zombie Survival" where we have to fill out objectives (power up radio beacon etc) set in a hive city (open map, we can go anywhere we choose) where as the game progresses, the more tough enemies appear (firstly it will be GEQs, Then MEQs, then stuff like Raveners, Ogryns ect and finally Monsterous Creatues)
Now, i am Creating a Warboss for this event, and i feel the of Da Choppa Of Da Ragnarork is the best bet, as the game will last longer than 6 turns and the 'Grand Destiny' rule will work well with the whole enemy progession system
I also feel Kill-Dakka *may* be a good option, as half of the options are good for vs Hordes
You thoughts guys?
Character Point Limit is 200pts (if you want to create a warboss/Big Mek that would be better suited) (there is also a system for every 10 points not spent, you get a reroll, so you dont need to max out at 200)
Either Ragnarok or Headwoppa's Kill Choppa will be great late game vs multi wound monsters and you get to use that great imitative 4 on the warboss. After all gotta kill zombies quick, you don't wanna get bit
The kill choppy will most likely be a better choice then the ragnorork one. I too would suggest the ded shiny shoot a. It's drawback is rarely going to happen in a normal game let alone this new type of game you are trying. Twin linked assault 6 will get you some results and for only 5 pts it'll easily make up for its cosr.
If you grab a megaboss with the choppa of da ragnarork that could be really good. Early you kill guys with either the pk or the choppa depending on which will kill more. Then lager you can switch to just the choppa since it is stronger then. After 2 rounds with models killed the choppa is sitting at S+4 AP3. That pretty good against most things and after one more round its S10 AP2 at initiative. I personally have always liked the killchoppa best though since its just a cool image of beheading. The megaboss with a killchoppa I use killed 1400-1600 points of tyranids in 2 games.
Saythings wrote: My "average" orks list had 10x12 boyz (double Orkurion cores) and 14 solo Deffkoptas. It also had 2x3 KMK artillery. I only played against 2 Eldar lists (both including a single WK).
I had the firepower to kill the WK - but it's unrealistic.
With a 5+ FNP and T8 (not even counting 5++ from sword and board), it would take 18 (Str8 AP3) wounds to kill him. With Orks shooting and my particular list, it only took 2 rounds of shooting on averages to kill him. That being said, I only did 5 wounds total (over the course of 2 games). Arguably I had the perfect list (ideal firepower - S8 AP3+) to kill a WK and I haven't even come close to doing so. In hindsight, I'd much rather keep shooting scat bikes or D-artillery, even buffed up council. WKs are way too durable and it'll take a lot more than 325 pts of shooting to kill it at a reasonable rate.
The most success I've had against containing a WK is wrapping 10mans around my objectives and units I want to keep safer.
Since I'm using Orkurion, I get 2 chances are army-wide fearless (via Waaagh!) - those games, I throw 10man after 10man at them and with a average luck each 10man holds them a full game turn.
You can't kill it unless you throw 2 x times the points of meganobz at it expecting to loose most of them. Accept it wiping a squad a turn and proceed forging the narrative. Maybe try to block it's way with trukks or tarpit it with spread out boyz or something.
Hey guys, gonna be at a tournament for the next few days. It's the harvester of souls in Spokane Washington. It's a unique tournament where a 3rd of the points come from the actual games, another 3rd based on sportsmanship, and the last 3rd from army paint and presentation. So a more "friendly " type of tournament.
I attended last year with a Ghazghkull dreddmob, did horible in paint (I was rushing the n8ght b4 to get my army up to tabletop standard ), and I got kromped in the actual gamez.
This year I got my army painted in time (some of it commissioned by my brother at bitsaddiction.blogspot.com where you can see some of his posts for his and mine models paintex), and I thought through a more competitive list (at least one that can stick with the theme of my army).
Wish me luck
And for those who want to know what I brought....
Vulcha skwad
Zagstruk
3x5 stromboyz with nob and pk
Cad x2
Bigmek, ma
Painboy, bp Zhadsnark (warlord and allows bikes as troops )
Painboy bike bp 2x3 warbikers
3x3 warbikers nob pk 6x2 defkoptas tl roket x2, 1 buzzsaw
15 lootas
Adl, coms, ammo dump
1850 pts
If you have questionsabout my list just ask, but I'll be pretty busy during the tournament, I'll answer when I can. After the tournament I'll do a dedicated post with pics of my army and how well I did
Saythings wrote: My "average" orks list had 10x12 boyz (double Orkurion cores) and 14 solo Deffkoptas. It also had 2x3 KMK artillery. I only played against 2 Eldar lists (both including a single WK).
I had the firepower to kill the WK - but it's unrealistic.
With a 5+ FNP and T8 (not even counting 5++ from sword and board), it would take 18 (Str8 AP3) wounds to kill him. With Orks shooting and my particular list, it only took 2 rounds of shooting on averages to kill him. That being said, I only did 5 wounds total (over the course of 2 games). Arguably I had the perfect list (ideal firepower - S8 AP3+) to kill a WK and I haven't even come close to doing so. In hindsight, I'd much rather keep shooting scat bikes or D-artillery, even buffed up council. WKs are way too durable and it'll take a lot more than 325 pts of shooting to kill it at a reasonable rate.
The most success I've had against containing a WK is wrapping 10mans around my objectives and units I want to keep safer.
Since I'm using Orkurion, I get 2 chances are army-wide fearless (via Waaagh!) - those games, I throw 10man after 10man at them and with a average luck each 10man holds them a full game turn.
You can't kill it unless you throw 2 x times the points of meganobz at it expecting to loose most of them. Accept it wiping a squad a turn and proceed forging the narrative. Maybe try to block it's way with trukks or tarpit it with spread out boyz or something.
Sending Meganobs would kill it (albeit - you'd always lose the points trade). I had the firepower of killing it with my list. I just wanted to point out that even with the "best" answer for WK, it still isn't worth killing it (with Codex: Orks). The best answer it to bubble wrap something important and throw fearless boyz at it. You have to remember that its a Jump GMC with 12" movement so wrapping his feet and blocking it with Trukks does nothing. There is no great answer to WKs. Suiciding 'your best' unit is not an answer due to the point differential afterwards. I use the term 'your best' because I don't like Meganobs. Too many things ignore armor in the game.
Well I just went 1-2 at a local tournament with my wonky ork list. Here is what I brought:
Gorkanaut Krushin Krew
3 Gorkanauts with extra armor
CAD Big Mek with da fixxer uppers and a grot oiler
2 units of gretchin
2 Morkanauts with KFFs Buzzgobs Kustom stompa
1850 points
My first round I was against a white scars list using the angels of death stuff. He had a hunting force, 2 Libby conclaves, and a stormbringer squadron. At the end he had one scout sergeant, a captain on a bike, and a librarian on a bike left. If I had made the 5 inch charge into the captain and Libby with one of the two living gorkanauts or if the morkanaut that charged the scouts had killed more than the one before dying to a melts bomb I would have won the match. He was relying on grav on the bikes or rending to do damage. I killed the bikes fairly quickly with shooting and a long turn one charge from the stompa into the 2 conclaves and command bike squad.
Round 2 was against a knight crusader, atropos, castigator, and lancer and 3 scout units. I had to ignore the scounts due to terrain and by the end the lancer was down to 4 hps and the crusader was at 3 the other two died. The stompa sadly left one hp on the atropos and only killed it in the next round when it exploded on it. I lost this as well and I could have done a few things differently.
Round three was against khorne daemonkin where only the 3 maulerfiends, a lord with a melta bomb, 2 heldrakes, and the summoned bliodthirster could scratch me. I lost one gorkanaut early to a maulerfiend and a morkanaut to the Dthirster later. The gretchin also died and I won when the fame ended turn 5. On turn 6 I would have most likely tabled him.
All 3 games were good and I learned a good bit for next time. We use the full maelstrom deck for secondary objectives and theee was some poor luck on them but I knew maelstrom would be hard with a force this slow. I only lost more than 2 naughts against the knights.
Good job on the win, as far as the list goes it sounds fun, and while probably not very competitive it would help shorten the length of your turns, and can look mighty intimidating
Yes there are some very hard counters to it but it does well against the "meta" eldar with all the spiders and bikes. Riptide wing also gets to feel fairly useless against it as well. It is definitely a lot of fun though. You got that right it is certainly intimidating! I've only run it 5 times now. There were those two losses, one against crisis suit tau with lots of melta, and then a massive win against eldar with grav cents with the hunters eye, and the one described above. Each game I learn a new trick or two as well. There are another two or so events in bringing it to so we shall see how I do at then as well. The naughts are by far my favorite unit so its great to use them.
I recently played a game after taking a 2 month break for AoP. (got 3rd with my gargant) I wanted to play some old stuff and mix it in with some new stuff. So codex: Armageddon+ da boss mob + codex: orks
2500pts
Da boss mob
2x Big mek with shock attack gunz
1x big mek in mega armor with Kff, killsaw attack squig and da lucky stick
1x warboss on a bike with power klaw
1x wyrd boy lvl 2
CAD (Cult of speed)
1 pain boy
4x trukk boy squads with shoota and nob BP/PK 1x large 'ard boy squad with sluggas and chopas Nob BP/PK 1x dakka jet squad
1 wazboom blast jet
1 unit of war bikers nob BP/Pk 2x loota squad with looted wagons as dedicated transports.
1x battle wagon
Here is what that all gets you. d3 out flankers, +1 to seizing, Big mek in mega armor has the Kunnin' but brutal warlord trait, reserves can come in on turn 1, boyz can fall back to closest empty transport to rally (or table edge which ever is closer). Everyone has to be mounted.
First turn of the game, 2 trukks out flank, come on and tank shock a unit of tau drones off the table and tau fire warriors. Turn 2, dakka jets come on. I waagh from the warboss and put 6 wounds on a stormsurge. Wazboom blast jet killed 2 riptides with instant death shots. Tellyport kannons waaghed for 2 blast markers. Riptides were so close together I was able to hit both of them. turn 3 my opponent is left with his wound stormsurge, farsight bomb mis-hap and I put it in my own deployment zone. I gave him line breaker, but he was far away from everything that he could not support the rest of his army. Riptide with 1 wound left. He conceded.
I won 14-3
Turn 1 outflanking tank shock move was brutal. It cause a hole in his line of defense and he was not able to stop me.
That Kult of Speed is 3rd edition? Is that what provides the turn 1 reserves? And then the Boss Mob.... is that the same as Mogrok's Bossboy formation from The Red WAAAGH? Does it also let you call a WAAAGH without having your warboss as the warlord? That would be fancy.
Orcurion won against an excellent Tau player last night.
2000 point Maelstrom mission where objective cards equals Turn number.
Ran the same list I've been running with the exception that the four single Deffkoptas grouped up into a single mob with BikerBoss attached.
Opponent ran Shadowsun with max suit bodyguard all with twin linked ignores cover Fusion Blasters and a dozen or so drones. A formation with the new MC that always had shrouded and stealth along with Steath suits. Riptide. Hammerhead and mandatory troop choices including a devil fish. Also a useless formation of Mantas.
I played very cautiously the first three turns while all 6 boys mobs were shot off the table. My Lobbas and KMK's were slowly whittling away units. His Death Star very aggressively drops into the center of the board, kills all the Deffkoptas and retreats. I keep plugging away and getting objectives. The gets ambitious and comes forward with everything. Foot Tau for the loss!
I assault his Death Star with Ghaz and friends first and Ghaz and MAWB's absorb all Overwatch with zero wounds thanks to FNP. I also assault with 3 Meganobz just to leap frog them forward. Grot squad assault Riptide! Fearless gots are the best!
Destroy his Shadowsun squad and Ghaz heads for Stormsurge and friends with 2+ cover. Never bother shooting at them. Meganobz join assault against Riptide while multiassaulting a Devil Fish. Meganobz have Buzzsaws so extra attacks pile into Devil Fish. Destroy that but Riptide has 3++ Inv save. Doesn't matter because each penetrating hit counts as two wounds. Riptide needs to pass a Ld of 3 or less. Fails of course and Grots run him down!!!! Highlight of the game.
Major Victory 20-9 for the Orks. I scored 8 points in the sixth turn alone on six different cards. So definitely some luck drawing good cards. Was looking bleak the first few turns but I was able to lure him in with a false sense of security. So many dead Orks and Tau at the end.
Can I ask how you have Fearless Grots? The only way I found out is Stompa aura and attaching ICs with the Fearless bosspole.
Edit: Wanted to clarify a little more - if you roll a '1" on the warlord trait (with 2 chances, yay!). Your waaagh! makes all models with Mob Rule fearless that turn (#everyturn). Mob Rules states that every model has to have Mob Rule in order to benefit from Mob Rules. Grots don't have it, but the Runtherder does. If this is the case - are you playing that the Runtherder is giving the Grots fearless? Or - are you mistaken that a "1" on the WLT gives army-wide fearless?
I play my army-wide fearless very conservative and my grots never gain fearless( via WLT).
Edit2: Where is Ghaz in your army list? Just curious to how you include him in your Orkurion. I never do simply because the only way you can is that awkward af deathstar that can't split. But at least you always get the Fearless WLT. Unfortunately, if you include him as a CAD (with less tax), only models in the Warlord's detachment get fearless/waaagh every turn. So your 60+ boyz from Orkurion wouldn't benefit. :( Damn this codex! Haha. Jk. I love my orkurion. I just can't fathom bringing Ghaz as is.
Any model with mob rule gets fearless with that trait once the waaagh is called. The runtherd has mob rule, thus he gets fearless. The grots are still ld 5, but the runtherd is fearless, so the whole mob counts as fearless unless he dies.
Yep he is right there. It doesn't matter if the whole squad has it because fearless confers to the unit so only the runtherd needs fearless. That also sounded like a great game!
Yeah I double checked the rules specifically with the Grots last night. The can't run and assault nor can they reroll a single charge distance role because NOT ever model has Ere We Go but as far as my understanding goes the are certainly Fearless.
Ghaz runs with his friends in the Council of Waaagh! The 2++ Inv was really messing with my Opponent.
Was this clarified in the FAQs? on p.92 Profit of the Waaagh! grants fearless to models, but on p.104 it only grants fearless to units. Which is correct?
JimOnMars wrote: Was this clarified in the FAQs? on p.92 Profit of the Waaagh! grants fearless to models, but on p.104 it only grants fearless to units. Which is correct?
It doesn't matter either way since Fearless is one of the USR's where having one model that has Fearless causes its accompanying unit to have it as well.
JimOnMars wrote: Was this clarified in the FAQs? on p.92 Profit of the Waaagh! grants fearless to models, but on p.104 it only grants fearless to units. Which is correct?
It doesn't matter either way since Fearless is one of the USR's where having one model that has Fearless causes its accompanying unit to have it as well.
It does matter. If Ghaz only grants fearless to 'ere-we-go units, then grots can't get it because their unit isn't 'ere we go. The fearless USR rule never gets applied.
JimOnMars wrote: Was this clarified in the FAQs? on p.92 Profit of the Waaagh! grants fearless to models, but on p.104 it only grants fearless to units. Which is correct?
It doesn't matter either way since Fearless is one of the USR's where having one model that has Fearless causes its accompanying unit to have it as well.
It does matter. If Ghaz only grants fearless to 'ere-we-go units, then grots can't get it because their unit isn't 'ere we go. The fearless USR rule never gets applied.
Ah, the way you worded it sounded like you were more concerned about the USR itself rather than how Prophet of the WAAAGH! applies to units/models. In any case, the one from pg 92 where it states models are affected rather than units seems to take precedence since the one from pg 104 is only a reference and it even states at the beginning of the reference page that "All of the rules and tables here are condensed for ease of reference. If you need the full rule, see its entry in the main pages of the book".
JimOnMars wrote: Was this clarified in the FAQs? on p.92 Profit of the Waaagh! grants fearless to models, but on p.104 it only grants fearless to units. Which is correct?
It doesn't matter either way since Fearless is one of the USR's where having one model that has Fearless causes its accompanying unit to have it as well.
It does matter. If Ghaz only grants fearless to 'ere-we-go units, then grots can't get it because their unit isn't 'ere we go. The fearless USR rule never gets applied.
Ah, the way you worded it sounded like you were more concerned about the USR itself rather than how Prophet of the WAAAGH! applies to units/models. In any case, the one from pg 92 where it states models are affected rather than units seems to take precedence since the one from pg 104 is only a reference and it even states at the beginning of the reference page that "All of the rules and tables here are condensed for ease of reference. If you need the full rule, see its entry in the main pages of the book".
Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
PipeAlley wrote: Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
Something else: If a unit of grots is in combat with their runtherd, just put the runtherd in the back and refuse challenges. The runtherd can't use his leadership, but the refusing challenges rule says nothing about the fearless USR, so the unit is still fearless.
Even against the likes of wolfstar, etc a decently sized grot unit is likely to survive at least one round of combat, locking in the deathstar. On the next turn, the next set of fearless grots can be brought in, etc., theoretically locking up a deathstar for a long time.
Also...additional runtherds are cheaper than meks.
(The dice gods were not on his side!)
But the two rounds i played were very good. Turn 3 looked to be the magic turn in each game. Turn 1 I made the forward rush with little bit of shooting. Turn 2 I started to see some damage on my end, but that's alright I was already where I wanted to be. Turn 3 Massive amounts of damage to my opponent's army.
)
) or high strength melee attacks. Tau makes Kans cry while they actually do decently well against Space Marines.
