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75 points for av12 front and improved ramshackle, but only carry 6 boyz and losing assault?

It will still get glanced to death, causing mob rule anyway...not sure how long the sides of the vehicle are, but if it's anything like a trukk it will be very hard to avoid the av10 anyway.

No thankee.

Wait that thing is 75 points before upgrades? That seems a bit much. It's no gunwagon with AV 12/10/10.

Yea, that seems to be the price of it. It seems to be the deff-rolla tank...no word on yet what the drilldozer blade does.

Also no points yet for the truck.

I'm not impressed. I'm more curious as to see what the drilldozer blade's rules are like and how much better it will undoubtedly be than the deff rolla. As a transport in of itself, its sub-par IMO, at least for an Ork army.

We must see full rules before decideing if it's good or bad. It might be some sort of multiple ap2 large blasts on the entry. You know, like the tyranid's big bug that does this thing.

Or it will let them reroll difficult terrain .

What was that 12/10/10 vehicle that was linked a few posts ago? It wasn't an orks vehicle, was it?

As for practicality in a competitive scene, any transport that isn't free or an assault vehicle is hard to justify; in this case neither - unfortunately.

I'm also a firm believer that orks (boyz - in particular) shouldn't be in trukks though. They kill themselves more often then protect them.

I don't care about the rules for it. I'm going to just loot one and use it for something in my speed freak army. I'm sure I'll find a use for it.

Also, I don't think their ramshackle rule is better than ours. Ours will actually prevent you from exploding.

I dunno about you, but that thing doesn't really look that fast to me. I'd have to modify it before I felt like a speed freak could use it. I'd attach a trailer thing to the back, make it look like a looted gravel carrier or something, bulk it up with some more armor, turn the trailer into a troop compartment, then use it as a Deff Skulls Battlewagon. It looks like AV14-ish in the front, and the back isn't really armored, so it works thematically. I'll need to improve my conversion skills, but the idea is solid-ish.

Also @Grimskul the drilldozer is basically better than the Deffrolla unless your opponent misread the death or glory rules and tries to se them constantly. Poor Deffrolla, you used to be so good!

Saythings wrote:
What was that 12/10/10 vehicle that was linked a few posts ago? It wasn't an orks vehicle, was it?

As for practicality in a competitive scene, any transport that isn't free or an assault vehicle is hard to justify; in this case neither - unfortunately.

I'm also a firm believer that orks (boyz - in particular) shouldn't be in trukks though. They kill themselves more often then protect them.

I posted it, it's one of the new transports for genesteeler cults codex

 JimOnMars wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
First game was against a Tau player: fully kitted out Jetpack command squad, Stormsurge, Riptide, two units of pathfinders. It’s lists like this that I’ve given up on the Bully Boyz. Once they jump out or their rides are destroyed, they can be picked off easily. Tau goes first and pretty much is able to kill two grots from the KMK battery and some grots on foot advancing towards his table edge.

How did you avoid more damage? Did he roll badly trying to wound T7 grots and the AV14 BW? Did you have good cover?

Cover was 4+ for the BW and 5+ for the Mekgunz. I had the grots spread max distance. Also night fighting for the first turn so actually 4+ for the first turn. He was more worried about all the boys than the Mek Gunz since he had 4++ inv drones protecting the ommand sauad and he was spread out well the first two turns until he moved forward. Stormsurge under performed that's for sure!

So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:

Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105

I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.

Thoughts?

I definitely miss the old deff roll more now than ever before.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:

Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105

I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.

Thoughts?

The whole schtick is the formation's ability to allow its units locked in combat attack for free without retaliation in the movement phase. It's important to note that once you activate it, only the units in combat will be able to use it. So that being the case, I would edge towards a larger unit for the painmob boyz unit if you have extra boyz models to add into it given that you want those extra numbers to get the most of your free attacks (which will be sadly S3) and drop the 'eavy armour to save points to add more bodies given that chances are that the Painboy will be in the boyz unit. If you're taking this as part of a larger army, I would suggest getting them up to around 19 and put them and the Painboy in a Battlewagon. If you want to stick with the minimum size squads then I highly suggest you take a trukk for both the Nobz and the 10 boyz. Ideally, the boyz should upgrade one of their members into a Nob wielding a power klaw, since this will let them do more damage when you activate the formation ability and just give them more versatility.

In the case of the Nobz, unfortunately mass power klaws are not very efficient on normal Nobz squads given that you could have a more survivable Mega Nob squad instead for less. I would only go for one power klaw on the Nobz squad (make sure its not on the Nob leader so that way it won't get challenged out) and maybe give the rest big choppas if you can fit the points. Also 5 bosspoles is waaaay overkill. You only need one max, since it'll only really be relevant for re-rolling 4-6s if you fail mob rule in combat or 2-6's if your Nob leader is dead. Otherwise, the 'eavy armour upgrades are almost mandatory if they're not joined by the Painboy since they'll drop like flies without either.

So I was recently talked into giving into temptation and getting a killa kan kit. I know they aren't the best, but I prefer them over deff dreads because I won't care nearly as much if one dies. However, I'm stuck on how to arm them. Grotzookas are a fantastic way to drop 6 small blasts onto some infantry, but with their stupid grots rule they'll risk snap-firing often, which would prevent them from shooting at all. Rockets seem like a nice alternative for vehicle hunting, but I already bring tankbustas, lootas, and killsaws in almost all my lists, and 3 rockets seem pretty underwhelming when compared to the other options. The skorcha suffers the same problems as the grotzooka, and is a waste of the grots BS3. Honestly, why don't I see anyone talking about the KMBs? It seems like the best option for my needs. Grots have the best BS in our codex, can't suffer from Gets Hot!, and are only 5 points a pop. Plus, I have very little AP 2 at range. How come I never see people talk about arming their kanz with KMBs?

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
So today I got a Painmob and want to know how to arm it. Here's how I want to do it:

Painboy with Grot Orderly 55
10 boyz with 'Eavy Armour, Boss nob with Big Choppa and bosspole 120
5 nobz with 'Eavy Armour, 4 power klaws, 1 shoota skorcha kombi weapon, and 5 bosspoles 245
Deff Dread with 3 power klaws, skorcha and extra armour 105

I'm investing heavily in Power Klaws because I think they do a lot of damage.

Thoughts?

I can't remember, but if the painmob allows you to take meganobz over nobz, do it. Nobz squads are garbage and meganobz only cost something like 3 points more after giving normal nobs a PK and heavy armor. In fact, 5 meganobz is only 200 points, a whole 45 points less than the nob squad. With that you can throw in a bosspole, a pair of killsaws, and a trukk with a ram and break even. Also, I wouldn't bother with the extra armor on the dread. The thing is paper-thin to begin with, so any shot that pens it will probably be followed by killing blows as well. Plus, it has to snapfire either way, which you can't do with a template. Also, transports. You need more of them. The trukk for the meganobz is a start (if meganobz are an option), and get another trukk for the boyz with the painboy.

Also, throw a powerklaw on the boss nob in the boy squad. A lot of the time he's the one who decides between a loss or victory in CC.

I used to arm MY Kanz with KMBs. Of course, that was partially because I tried cramming as many KMBs into my lists as possible, due to the Terminator-heavy meta where I played.

However, yes, they are awesome, and I love them on Kanz.

Another option is just leaving them with their Big Shootaz. Strength 5 shots aren't too bad, especially when they're hitting half the time. They've got good range, and with a squad that's a decent amount of firepower.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
So I was recently talked into giving into temptation and getting a killa kan kit. I know they aren't the best, but I prefer them over deff dreads because I won't care nearly as much if one dies. However, I'm stuck on how to arm them. Grotzookas are a fantastic way to drop 6 small blasts onto some infantry, but with their stupid grots rule they'll risk snap-firing often, which would prevent them from shooting at all. Rockets seem like a nice alternative for vehicle hunting, but I already bring tankbustas, lootas, and killsaws in almost all my lists, and 3 rockets seem pretty underwhelming when compared to the other options. The skorcha suffers the same problems as the grotzooka, and is a waste of the grots BS3. Honestly, why don't I see anyone talking about the KMBs? It seems like the best option for my needs. Grots have the best BS in our codex, can't suffer from Gets Hot!, and are only 5 points a pop. Plus, I have very little AP 2 at range. How come I never see people talk about arming their kanz with KMBs?

Grotzookas all day every day. There is no other option IMO as everything else pales in comparison. For example the other day I had my 6 man band of grotzooka trash kans pump out 21 hits onto a blob of grotesques (they weren't even all that tightly packed together) and end up outright taking a few out after their FNP and cover saves. No way I would come close to those numbers with Rokkits or Big Shootas. Yes the cowardly grot rule is hot garbage and hurts the Grotzooka kans more than the other weapons but the Grotzooka is a beast of a weapon and provides a lot of firepower for the points. If you want Rokkits you can take Tankbustas, Kannon Mek Guns, Deffkoptas, Buggies, or a Battlewagon loaded with 4 rokkits and a kannon. Nothing really comes close to what Grotzookas do except for Lobbas but they are 1 less strength and shot which can make a big difference (but the range + barrage has its own benefits). Same goes for Grot Tanks which fortunately don't have the terrible cowardly grot rule and have invuln saves while being cheaper (and AV10 sadly). Issue with KMB is that its gets hot which for a vehicle is a 50% to lose a HP and it cost more than a Rokkit. If you want to kill a vehicle them spam it with Rokkits (from more cost effective sources), if you want to bypass 2+ armor then look to a KMB Mek Gun, or even a Zapp Gun (it averages around S7 which is enough to wound most MCs and its gets hots are a 3 point casualty instead of potentially half of your 55 point kan).

I could have sworn I read that vehicles do not suffer from get hot. But if that's not the case then, no, I definitely will not be taking KMBs. I just can't find that rule- I swore I read it somewhere. This is bugging me.

They suffer from gets hot but on a 4+ they ignore it. They basically get a 4+ armor save against the wound it deals.

Oh, well screw KMKs then. Yeah, I'll probably go with grotzookas then. Big shootas seem like a waste, and I already have plenty of rockets from my tankbustas.

Also I am so hyped up to build them- I love the ork walkers. If only they were better I'd field tons of them, though I am considering getting more kans. A 55 point dreadnought, even if crippled in comparison, isn't terrible.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
A 55 point dreadnought, even if crippled in comparison, isn't terrible.

Unfortunately, it kinda is. But it's ok in fun games.

Kanz are fun to build and paint, but thats about all their good for now a days.

The S7, AP2 doesnt threated anything in cc (even if they can manage to get there) T4 with fnp is pretty common.

And their shooting if meh. Might as well get 3 kannon mek guns for the price of 1 kan.

They got hit with the nerf bat for no reason and it knocked them onto to the storage shelf.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Kanz are fun to build and paint, but thats about all their good for now a days.

The S7, AP2 doesnt threated anything in cc (even if they can manage to get there) T4 with fnp is pretty common.

And their shooting if meh. Might as well get 3 kannon mek guns for the price of 1 kan.

They got hit with the nerf bat for no reason and it knocked them onto to the storage shelf.

I beg to differ. I've seen my Kans smash stuff left and right. Yeah they are not str 10 ap2 any more, but str 7 is pretty good. The last time my kans made it in to CC they kill a keeper of secrets and murdered a bunch of hounds. Heck a unit of kans will give monstrous creatures a run for their money.

 Glitcha wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Kanz are fun to build and paint, but thats about all their good for now a days.

The S7, AP2 doesnt threated anything in cc (even if they can manage to get there) T4 with fnp is pretty common.

And their shooting if meh. Might as well get 3 kannon mek guns for the price of 1 kan.

They got hit with the nerf bat for no reason and it knocked them onto to the storage shelf.

I beg to differ. I've seen my Kans smash stuff left and right. Yeah they are not str 10 ap2 any more, but str 7 is pretty good. The last time my kans made it in to CC they kill a keeper of secrets and murdered a bunch of hounds. Heck a unit of kans will give monstrous creatures a run for their money.

"last time they made it into cc"

So if they face another cc army like demons with little to no shooting they have a chance in cc.......

A bad unit that does something good on a rare occasion or vs a bad opponent doesnt make it a good unit.

They take up a valuable heavy support slot that is better used by lootas , mek gunz or battlewagons.

Only time i use mine is in fun games with the IA8 dredd mob list that makes them a fast attack choice.

I own 12 kanz, and since 7th and the new ork codex, they have hardly ever pulled their point cost in weight. But they look cool lol

Yeah I mostly plan to field them in fun games as a "second wave" sort of thing. I already bring a lot of armor (battlewagons and trukks) which rush up front, so the plan is the enemy will focus on the more immediate threat of about eighty orks of different flavors before they try to focus the kanz.

Im going to be playing a campaign vs GK and tank heavy IG.

I have a list sorted but i cant decide what mek guns to take. I wanted Zzap guns for AT, but im wondering if the Kustom mega kannons might be better? Theyre less accurate, but the strength isnt down to chance. And theyd also be handy against GK terminators.

Thoughts

If something, blasts are more accurate than solid shots. however, i've played with Zzap guns and they're not half bad if you keep them min. Also, with the new overheat rules they're less dangerous to your grots than KMK. Ammo runts are a must. And get ready to test that ld5 after overheats. Unfortunately, i had to go back to lootas after the Gets Hot! nerfs to blast weapons. Enjoyed some kmk before that.

Despite my constant complaints over the Killa Kan nerfs they aren't outright terrible. Armies that rely on hard hitting ranged weapons like Melta or Lascannons tend to not really be well equipped to deal with the number of bodies that a typical Kan squad has. Popping a Kan often times requires a few shots to take a single Kan out which is often times a bigger points investment than the walker itself. And with most Ork armies there are a lot of other threats coming in that pull pressure off the Kanz and onto that trukk loaded with Meganobz or those Warbikers. Once they can get into firing range those Killa Kans can unload a ton of firepower (Grotzookas are ) and are no chumps in CC against light/medium weight melee units. Things to watch out for are medium strength high volume of fire shooting (not like that's common ) or high strength melee attacks. Tau makes Kans cry while they actually do decently well against Space Marines.

 koooaei wrote:
If something, blasts are more accurate than solid shots. however, i've played with Zzap guns and they're not half bad if you keep them min. Also, with the new overheat rules they're less dangerous to your grots than KMK. Ammo runts are a must. And get ready to test that ld5 after overheats. Unfortunately, i had to go back to lootas after the Gets Hot! nerfs to blast weapons. Enjoyed some kmk before that.

Zzap guns seem like the Orks best answer to long range 2+ armor threats. The rules seem like they are designed to kill vehicles but the RNG strength is really detrimental to doing anything to high AV targets while it rarely outright prevents you from hurting an MC/GMC.

 MagicMan wrote:
Im going to be playing a campaign vs GK and tank heavy IG.

I have a list sorted but i cant decide what mek guns to take. I wanted Zzap guns for AT, but im wondering if the Kustom mega kannons might be better? Theyre less accurate, but the strength isnt down to chance. And theyd also be handy against GK terminators.

Thoughts

Smasha gunz are better, In my opinion, than Zzap guns. You're more likely to get a strength result that will actually be able to hurt the tanks, and there is no chance of overheating. Also, you're guaranteed at least S5 AP2 against termies. Also, because wording is different than with loota's shots, you get to determine the strength of each gun when you fire, so five guns will roll five different times, meaning you have a better chance of a higher strength attack against a tank than if you just rolled one dice for the whole squad (While you could roll an awesome 6, you have an equal chance of rolling a measly 1, so this way is actually more consistent if you want to attack armor).

Now, KMK seem like they'd be great against GK pallies, as they can ID them and are AP2, not sure how great they would be against your regular leman russes, as they're only glancing front armor on 6s.

Anecdotal story time: I've used squads of 5 smasha gunz, and they make great heavy infantry killers. Especially guys with multiple wounds. If a couple guns roll high, you can instant death T5 or lower multi-wound guys. I've had some luck instant deathing necron heavy destroyers (T5, 2 wounds). Mostly, now, I tend to use single tractor cannons to discourage flyers, and hold objectives for only 30 points, and I save points for my close combat dudes.

Thanks for the input guys, appreciate it.


The GK im not super worried about because i have had success against them in the past. Only the Dreadknight scares me, but Orks really have nothing decent to use against it, so i try and ignore it if i can (willing to hear peoples opinions on how to take it down?)


Its the IG player im worried about, his 1000 pt list will likely be 4 Leman Russes, and two Chimeras with vets.


The only semi-reliable way to take on AV14 with Orks is to run at it and punch it, so I've got that covered, but I do want some long range AT to put the pressure on.

Which is why im taking a couple of Mek Guns. None of them are ''good'' against AV14. Zzap guns and Smasha gunz rely on good rolls, but KMK always hit at strength 8. Whuch is why im considering them...