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After the first game i can tell that we'll never get cover if we go offensive cause you can only get cover in terrain and it's always occupied by defender. Unless you play on really dense terrain boards like for swa and stuff. I guess it's what we should aim for now. Cause otherwise, if you for some reason prefer eternal war missions over maelstorm, gunlines are going to be way superior to attackers.
So, if you want to be aggreassive and not auto-loose, insist on dense cover boards and maelstorm missions.

JimOnMars wrote:Just wanted to mention from another thread...

when a charging unit piles in to a new unit that wasn't one you charge, you can't swing at the new unit. You have to stand there and let them hit you while you do nothing.

Could you explain this Jim?

koooaei wrote:After the first game i can tell that we'll never get cover if we go offensive cause you can only get cover in terrain and it's always occupied by defender. Unless you play on really dense terrain boards like for swa and stuff. I guess it's what we should aim for now. Cause otherwise, if you for some reason prefer eternal war missions over maelstorm, gunlines are going to be way superior to attackers.
So, if you want to be aggreassive and not auto-loose, insist on dense cover boards and maelstorm missions.

Interesting. im just reading your batrep now.
I was always a fan of maelstrom in 7e, but i suppose that was mostly because every time i played a "kill everything" game, sadly I just got shot to smithereeeens.

Could someone also explain this going first business?
Does the army with the most units always go second? thats the impression I seem to be getting by the way people are phrasing stuff

Solar Shock wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:Just wanted to mention from another thread...

when a charging unit piles in to a new unit that wasn't one you charge, you can't swing at the new unit. You have to stand there and let them hit you while you do nothing.

Could you explain this Jim?

During fighting, after having handled everyone that charged, you and your opponent take turns to pick units to fight, which then ends with the unit consolidating 3". If you consolidate into a unit that has not fought yet, your opponent can activate it and attack your unit.

Usually this is still better than the unit shooting you next turn and it would get to strike you first anyways if it charged you. It is still something you need to keep in mind, plus you don't want to consolidate into combat experts like Berzerkers as you'd just give them an additional turn to beat you up.

 Jidmah wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:Just wanted to mention from another thread...

when a charging unit piles in to a new unit that wasn't one you charge, you can't swing at the new unit. You have to stand there and let them hit you while you do nothing.

Could you explain this Jim?

During fighting, after having handled everyone that charged, you and your opponent take turns to pick units to fight, which then ends with the unit consolidating 3". If you consolidate into a unit that has not fought yet, your opponent can activate it and attack your unit.

Usually this is still better than the unit shooting you next turn and it would get to strike you first anyways if it charged you. It is still something you need to keep in mind, plus you don't want to consolidate into combat experts like Berzerkers as you'd just give them an additional turn to beat you up.

Ah I see.
So its making the choice as to whether you want to take some extra beating to tie up another unit in their phase. As you will assume if you've charged it, its something shooty. So they are going to fall back next turn, allowing them to shoot with the other unit, and then charge if they wish too. Hmm. I suppose as long as you consolidate into them with as little number of orks as possible you can reduce the number of them that can fight. So yeh, I suppose as long as it isn't some CC heavy unit its best.

Anyone else look at the last two Rumor Engine pictures and think "Combi-Buggy Deffkopta kit"

 JimOnMars wrote:
Just wanted to mention from another thread...

when a charging unit piles in to a new unit that wasn't one you charge, you can't swing at the new unit. You have to stand there and let them hit you while you do nothing.

You can however charge more than one unit with one unit...

Consolidating into a Dev Squad seems worth it to me, let them make their 5 attacks at Str 4, AP - D 1, and not get to shoot the following turn at all. Same thing for Vehicles with less than 5 attacks and WS 6+...

Played my first game of 8th over the weekend. I think the Gorkanaut and Morkanaut are going to be on the table a lot more. KFF now has a 9" bubble for a 5++ and only effects models with the Ork key word.

Big mek repair a building is amazing. d3 wounds on a model with the vehicle keyword a turn. So you put a big mek inside Gorkanaut with a KFF. Gorkanaut is T8 with 18 wounds. 3+/5++ and heals d3 wounds a turn. You can pop your grot oiler that he comes with for a 1+d3 repair roll. If you roll poorly, use the command point to reroll the dice.
https://www.facebook.com/SinclairGames/videos/1775008146093051/

We live streamed the game. Some mistakes were made, but you can see how effective dread army is going to be. We said in the video we were playing 2000pts. We forgot to added all of our weapons that the models come with. It was closer to 2400pts.

Enjoy you gitz!

 Glitcha wrote:
So you put a big mek inside Gorkanaut with a KFF. Gorkanaut is T8 with 18 wounds. 3+/5++ and heals d3 wounds a turn.

Unfortunately the repair does not work when hes embarked, he has to get out the back and repair on the table >.<

 davou wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
So you put a big mek inside Gorkanaut with a KFF. Gorkanaut is T8 with 18 wounds. 3+/5++ and heals d3 wounds a turn.

Unfortunately the repair does not work when hes embarked, he has to get out the back and repair on the table >.<

Yeah I just found it in the rule book... Personally, that stupid, but whatever. Still a killer combo.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Anyone else look at the last two Rumor Engine pictures and think "Combi-Buggy Deffkopta kit"

Some kind of weird looking wheel which looks nothing like existing orks wheels and a piece of ragged cloth make you think they are going to do a kit which combines two very different models, when one of those models already has another two units which are very similar?

That wheel looks very much like trukk wheels, but could also easily be GSC or guard.

ETA: Another issue...

Just looking at the TAU rules. "For the greater good" (supporting fire) is not that bad. Any unit that uses it can only fire overwatch once per turn! I was worried about their big units standing behind the front lines and overwatching everything every time.

Now even Tau can only overwatch twice if the first charge fails distance. Happy day!

Glitcha wrote:Played my first game of 8th over the weekend. I think the Gorkanaut and Morkanaut are going to be on the table a lot more. KFF now has a 9" bubble for a 5++ and only effects models with the Ork key word.

Big mek repair a building is amazing. d3 wounds on a model with the vehicle keyword a turn. So you put a big mek inside Gorkanaut with a KFF. Gorkanaut is T8 with 18 wounds. 3+/5++ and heals d3 wounds a turn. You can pop your grot oiler that he comes with for a 1+d3 repair roll. If you roll poorly, use the command point to reroll the dice.
https://www.facebook.com/SinclairGames/videos/1775008146093051/

We live streamed the game. Some mistakes were made, but you can see how effective dread army is going to be. We said in the video we were playing 2000pts. We forgot to added all of our weapons that the models come with. It was closer to 2400pts.

Enjoy you gitz!

Thanks for the vid, i'll give it a watch later. Keen to see a dread mob in action. The KFF on the morka seems so potent at 9"
Someone already mentioned the mek repair stuff. But in honesty, whats going to be the issue with having an IC hanging about a walker? snipers? well maybe, but they will be wasting some shots to kill a lowly mek.
Im thinking of maybe using my SAG BigMek on bike, to zip around and heal where needed and to fire his SAG. then if I have spare points maybe have a couple meks just running around doing other repairs.

JimOnMars wrote:

ETA: Another issue...

Just looking at the TAU rules. "For the greater good" (supporting fire) is not that bad. Any unit that uses it can only fire overwatch once per turn! I was worried about their big units standing behind the front lines and overwatching everything every time.

Now even Tau can only overwatch twice if the first charge fails distance. Happy day!

Oh that is nice. So If I charge a kopta into a unit, that unit can overwatch (unlimited if charge fails), but supporting units if they decide to OW, they will have used up all of their uses (inlcuding if I then charge THAT supporting unit with another ork unit?) Interesting.So to get to Tau you just need to mass assault in the same turn?

Just be careful if you declare multiple charge targets, as that adds another 6" bubble, unless you're charging with something tough like a BW then you may want to declare as many targets as possible to try and bait the overwatch.

Nob with Waaagh Banner is going to be a crucial addition for matched play IMO. That +1 to hit makes power klaw wielding nobz and warbosses extra scary, and blobs of boyz with 3 attacks hitting on 2+ is legendary.

Does anyone know how far Warbikes get to run? is it D6 like infantry or is it 2D6 or a set amount? The reason I ask is that we can take a warboss on a bike who can make that unit able to move, run, assault in a single turn which gives them a possible charge range of 12 + (1D6 2D6 or set amount?) 13in charge range (can be 1 inch away now) so anywhere from 31+ Charge range on turn 1. Samething is true for trukkz and all our other fast vehicles like Buggies and Trakkz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also have a big unit of Warbuggies going 14in + flatout or whatever it is now, and 13 inch charge to make it 33+ Charge range.

Advance is D6 for everything unless a rule on a datasheet says otherwise.

SemperMortis wrote:
Does anyone know how far Warbikes get to run? is it D6 like infantry or is it 2D6 or a set amount? The reason I ask is that we can take a warboss on a bike who can make that unit able to move, run, assault in a single turn which gives them a possible charge range of 12 + (1D6 2D6 or set amount?) 13in charge range (can be 1 inch away now) so anywhere from 31+ Charge range on turn 1. Samething is true for trukkz and all our other fast vehicles like Buggies and Trakkz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also have a big unit of Warbuggies going 14in + flatout or whatever it is now, and 13 inch charge to make it 33+ Charge range.

The warboss's waagh rule only applies to models with the infantry keyword. Biker boyz and nob bikers of the bike key word.

 Glitcha wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Does anyone know how far Warbikes get to run? is it D6 like infantry or is it 2D6 or a set amount? The reason I ask is that we can take a warboss on a bike who can make that unit able to move, run, assault in a single turn which gives them a possible charge range of 12 + (1D6 2D6 or set amount?) 13in charge range (can be 1 inch away now) so anywhere from 31+ Charge range on turn 1. Samething is true for trukkz and all our other fast vehicles like Buggies and Trakkz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also have a big unit of Warbuggies going 14in + flatout or whatever it is now, and 13 inch charge to make it 33+ Charge range.

The warboss's waagh rule only applies to models with the infantry keyword. Biker boyz and nob bikers of the bike key word.

Sweet, so GW found another way to feth bikes up.

Ugh. Could you please take your constant negativity elsewhere?

"Warbikes only have a charge range of 27" instead of 27"+d6, GW totall fethed them up". I can't even tell if you're serious anymore.

At the very least go read the rules of stuff you're talking about before contributing.

I think you mean "contributing"

 Jidmah wrote:
Ugh. Could you please take your constant negativity elsewhere?

We could start a thread for it We could call it "Sempers temper blender"

 Jidmah wrote:
Ugh. Could you please take your constant negativity elsewhere?

"Warbikes only have a charge range of 27" instead of 27"+d6, GW totall fethed them up". I can't even tell if you're serious anymore.

At the very least go read the rules of stuff you're talking about before contributing.

actually Warbikers have a maximum charge range of 25. (12 inch movement and 13in charge range) But hey, feth me right because im pointing out huge flaws in the "YAY NEW EDITION" hysteria

14' movement.

Anywayz, i got to test new bikers and stormboyz. Stormboyz seem sweet. I'm pretty unhappy with power klaws, so maybe big choppas are the new hotness. Don't know yet. I'll try to field a couple nob units with different gear. But not manz. I now regret spending money on thi models. Just not worth it. Let's hope gw makes them better. Or at least cheaper. Their choppiness vs meq stuff has gone down by 60% point-for-point compared to 7-th bully boyz. And their durability only increased vs small arms fire without ap. With new detachment system you're likely to meet armies w/o basic guns at all.

Kommandoes are there for point grabbing and suicide charges. They'll never get cover bonuses in the second case cause of how cover works (doesn't) now. But 45 pt for 2 skorchas and nob is passable. You can even use them on the flanks of your boy squads to add a bit of ap-2 and a tiny bit of shooting, i guess.

Big/Mek guns are way more vulnerable than they used to be. With grots being a separate squad. But they're one of a few passable ways of dealing some damage from afar - other than tankbustas. I don't think lootas will work all that great w/o old cover for increased point cost. Mek guns at least got 6 wounds each.

and a reroll on the charge.... But they obviously suck, becuase we all have 'yay new eddition histeria' Or Yneh to keep things moving forward efficiently.

Which is why when i looked today I thought deffcoptas looked even stronger!
they have the deployment rule (which seems better than the wartrakks one), they can deploy something like 14" from a board edge as long as its still 9" away from enemy (trakks deploy at the end of the movement and have to be touching a table edge).
They can turboboost for a set 6" advancement.

Unsure on this - but due to how they deploy through this 14 " move manner, they may be able to drop bomms as they deploy. (you would need the enemy to be hugging the table edge in order to get the deployment move and still be 9" away), but could still be useful for artillery or castled units.
They have rokkits, which seem to be the strongest weapon we have. Assault 2, str 8 AP -2 damage 3.

So from deployment of 14" (not sure if they can advance? I would assume the wording of "at the end of the movement phase" is intended to mean that its after the movement phase, but before the next phase? so probably no advancing or dropping bomms). 14" deploy and charge of 13" means they have a 27" charge range from any board edge. They have 2 attacks which can be used for d3 attacks.

Sounds pretty awesome to me!
I mean buggies still sound good. They have 2 more wounds than koptas. But the ability for koptas to basically reach far into the board and charge from deployment means a squad of 2 or 3 could do some serious havoc in the back lines.
thoughts? screw bikes! koptas and trakks it is!

Agreed for the most part. In fact I pointed out that those guys are going to be the heavy lifters for us this edition a few pages back. But let me make one suggestion to your idea. Don't get the Rokkitz. 2 Shots at BS2 (Im not sure if they suffer the movement penalty) aren't worth the massive investment in points. Just grab the Big Shoota and focus on using that and the Bombs. Maybe grab a Saw to really lay on the pain.

SemperMortis wrote:
actually Warbikers have a maximum charge range of 25. (12 inch movement and 13in charge range) But hey, feth me right because im pointing out huge flaws in the "YAY NEW EDITION" hysteria

Warbikers have 14" movment. Jidmah is correct and you are wrong.

Semper, mate, I get that you're upset. I don't understand why since all the things you're complaining about don't seem like actual problems (bikes look amazing now with 14" move and 2 wounds and 6 shots apiece at only 2 points more than they were in the 4th ed codex) but if you think it looks bad that's your prerogative.

There are plenty of threads in general discussion about why things are terrible, why orks are terrible, why every other army is also terrible, how things were so much better in 7th, and why every ork unit got nerfed and is overcosted. This thread is for tactics discussion, not complaining. You stated that you think the stompa is bad and why, a couple of people agreed with you and a bunch disagreed with you. You don't have to keep flogging the dead horse. You've stated your case, it's time to move on. The point of the thread is constructive discussion of lists, combos, and tactics, not just contriving grievances.

Sorry I didn't see they changed the movement to 14' that doesn't change my prognosis for bikes though. You seem to forget that while they did gain an extra wound they lost 4+ Jink and turbo-boosting +1 to cover saves.

And since everything that was ignoring cover and getting shot at bikes is pretty much -1 to armor saves I have a feeling warbikers are going to die out a bit compared to Trakks and Koptas.

And if you read my comments I do provide suggestions and opinions on tactics as well as asking for advice on certain things, which is why I just learned bikes are now 14 not 12.

No more Dangerous Terrain tests will make larger bike squads a lot less of a hassle to move around.

Edit: Eh, never mind. This is not the place for petty rivalries.

office_waaagh wrote it better than I could.

I just want to kindly ask SemperMortis to double-check your facts before posting. You have been incorrect on almost a dozen things now and a lot of people are currently reading these threads to get an opinion on the new rules.

The very last thing they need is misinformation.