PipeAlley wrote: Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
Something else: If a unit of grots is in combat with their runtherd, just put the runtherd in the back and refuse challenges. The runtherd can't use his leadership, but the refusing challenges rule says nothing about the fearless USR, so the unit is still fearless.
Even against the likes of wolfstar, etc a decently sized grot unit is likely to survive at least one round of combat, locking in the deathstar. On the next turn, the next set of fearless grots can be brought in, etc., theoretically locking up a deathstar for a long time.
Also...additional runtherds are cheaper than meks.
Why is this not a thing?
Good points. I used to run two 29 grot units when I ran a Stompa List, one on each side of the Stompa as it moved up the field.
Either of those units could tie up almost any unit in the game for awhile.
Nice thing about the Traktor Kannonz is that if you do have to move you're already snap firing at most targets anyways. Ocurion with Council of Waaagh is just so irritating to opponents
PipeAlley wrote: Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
Something else: If a unit of grots is in combat with their runtherd, just put the runtherd in the back and refuse challenges. The runtherd can't use his leadership, but the refusing challenges rule says nothing about the fearless USR, so the unit is still fearless.
Even against the likes of wolfstar, etc a decently sized grot unit is likely to survive at least one round of combat, locking in the deathstar. On the next turn, the next set of fearless grots can be brought in, etc., theoretically locking up a deathstar for a long time.
Also...additional runtherds are cheaper than meks.
Why is this not a thing?
Probably because of the excessive points cost of the council of waaagh to get guaranteed Prophet of the WAAAGH! to gain armywide perma-fearless. That plus fearless grots, while hilarious and awesome, just don't have the mobility to trap the most annoying deathstars and killy units like Wraithknights or Riptides.
Brigning this tread in the first page where it belongs
So, my meta has grown quite Imperial Knight heavy in the last year and I am reagularly getting whiped by those big buggers. Even trying to tarpit them isn't quite effective with the stomps...
Alkorus wrote: Brigning this tread in the first page where it belongs
So, my meta has grown quite Imperial Knight heavy in the last year and I am reagularly getting whiped by those big buggers. Even trying to tarpit them isn't quite effective with the stomps...
Is there any counter to those IK we can use?
What seems to work as a Guard player is having anti-tank weapons in several areas. The main idea is to position them in several angles such that the invul save cannot cover all the angles that the shots are coming in from. With Guard, it's usually lascannons shooting from our backfield straight at the knight's front armor. After you strip a couple hullpoints eventually, they may try to move it much closer to your lines to assault, at which point those meltaguns hit from the side...
I don't know exactly what orks have along these lines, but I hope the general idea can apply to you guys too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or a ton of fearless grots
As koooaei stated, bully boyz working alongside tankbustas in trukks nipping at their flanks is good since knights only have AV13 on the front and can only place their ion shield on one facing so positioning is going to be important. Be sure to take bomb squigs with the tankbustas to get near guaranteed hits.
Besides that, try to play to objectives if you can. Knight armies are scary but they can only be in so many places at once.
it also depends on the FAQs (remember them?) and if they decide to unnerf melta bombs. If meltabombs get unnerfed (regarding "throwing" them) then the tankbustas are a great suicide squad against the knights.
Min squads of kommandos with two rokkits can outflank to get rear armor on knights even better is a full squadron of warbuggies outflanking with five twin linked rokkits. A good volley of looted will glance on 6s. A Weirdboy can ride along with tankbustas to give his witchfire powers the tank hunters USR (remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with). Da jump can get you rear armor or just a different facing vs the shield.
Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?
Hades wrote: (remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with).
You roll for powers after deployment.
In the beginning of the psychic phase portion of the rulebook under Generating Psychic Powers it's says to do so before the game begins. Deployment is part of the game, as is choosing the terrain, rolling for warlord traits choosing mission etc as explained in the Preparing for Battle section.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaisyWondercow wrote: Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?
.
Likely not Tank Hunters specifically says a unit with at least one model gains tank hunters. Special rules have to say they'll carry over otherwise the BRB says ICs don't give special rules to units they join or vice versa
Hades wrote: (remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with).
You roll for powers after deployment.
In the beginning of the psychic phase portion of the rulebook under Generating Psychic Powers it's says to do so before the game begins. Deployment is part of the game, as is choosing the terrain, rolling for warlord traits choosing mission etc as explained in the Preparing for Battle section.
DaisyWondercow wrote: Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?
Tankhunter confers to the weirdboy, so he get's to re-roll armor penetration. Great for the beam! Not sure about Glory Hogs, it does say "units of tankbustas", so I think they are still that kind of unit even with a joining MC.
Deffkoptas are best left with their twin-linked rokkit launcha since they have the speed and ability to get shots off at rear and side armour for vehicles. If you play maelstrom of war a lot, I highly suggest taking them as single units and having them outflank to gain behind enemy lines and for sneaky objective grabbing without giving up first blood.
Battlewagons are best used as a sturdy but semi-cheap transport. I would avoid decking it out in guns. A single rokkit launcha/big shoota upgrade and reinforced ram to ensure it gets where its supposed to be should be good enough.
I put only twin-linked rokkits on my deffkoptas. The big shootas are okay, but deffkoptas are pretty good at getting potshots off on rear armor, and being general distractions as single squads. As far as battlewagons go, it depends on what you need them for. I usually arm mine with nothing but a big shoota, as I use mine purely as transports for blobs of 20 boyz.
Also, after taking a look at your list, a have a few suggestions. A deff dread with one extra claw, skorcha, and grot riggers is only 105, not 160. Besides, I'd probably take off the skorcha and add another powerklaw. A skorcha has the chance to kill the dread out of charge range.
I also wouldn't bother using the squig hound with the grots. If you have points left over, why not, but I like to keep my grots as cheap as possible.
I'd definitely recommend getting a warboss and some bikers next. As you build your list you'll have more ways to build it, so there's really not much I can comment on here at the moment.
Edit: I forgot about the rams for the battlewagons. I always have those on, too. Rerolling 1's is fantastic for going over rough terrain, as these things are usually going just in a straight line. Put these on trukks, too. It gives them a S6 hit on ramming, which can actually result in a crucial pen in a pinch.
For deffcopters the twin linked rokkit launcha will be your bread and butter. For battlewagons it depends on what points you got left. Ignore the deffrolla and get the must have reinforced ram to handle dangerous terrain tests. I like to use planks for the extra charge range. Put at least one weapon on it so that weapon destroyed results don't get bumped up to immobilized results. Which weapons can depend on what is being transported and what you intend to do with the wagon before and after it delivers it's payload.
For the boss: Both are good options, really. Here's my thoughts on the matter.
Biker Boss: Advantages: Speed. Lots of speed. He can jump across the field, get 3+ jink saves, and rush into the enemy. Just make sure he's not alone. When I run one, I tend to put him in a 4 man squad of nob bikers, and they tend to wreck most things they hit as long as it's not dedicated melee.
Disadvantages: Durability. You've only got a 4+ save in close combat. You do have the ability to get a 3+ jink, but close combat is where you want this guy. If he gets swarmed in close combat, he's very likely to go down as a 4+ save is only so-so.
Boyz boss: Advantages: Durability. The primary way I take a boss is in Mega Armor with Da Lukky Stikk. A 2+ rerollable save is fantastic. Just make sure you have another character or two to take any challenges of AP 2 melee weapons, and this guy will tank almost every hit like a boss (or warboss if you prefer ). AP 2 ranged can be the bane of your existence, but if he's got enough boyz around him, he can LOS those hits on a 2+. It sucks that we can't ever get an invulnerable save in close combat, but oh well, we're orks. And a 2+ rerollable is morkin' delicious as long as you pick the right targets in melee.
Disadvantages: Speed. He can't get anywhere fast unless you give him a transport, so ALWAYS give him a transport. Mega armor means he can't run, and a 6" move can only get you so far.
I've played with bully boyz vs baneblade renegades. It was pretty fun. He stole ini but the voidshield helped a lot and he only managed to explode one trukk 1-st turn while the rest saved with cover and ramshackle. As he underestimated this factors, he moved the troops closer to midboard to claim objectives. Got charged 1-t turn by all 3 meganob squads and trukkboyz. Unfortunately, they overkilled spread out platoons so that they couldn't be locked in combat - even though i tried to multicharge as much as possible to lower enemy casualties. 2-d turn he thunderblitzed manz and some boyz - manz were ok, boyz got almost wiped, shot down another squad of manz with a baneblade cannon and lazguns but than the baneblade got demolished and he was pretty much down to his flyers and a few guyz here and there, so we decided to finish 2-d turn.
Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.
I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.
I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.
I'd just go for choppaboyz in trukks. They sometimes lack weight of attacks. It's also cheaper. Who could think but currently boyz tend to end up somewhat overpriced. No need to inflate their cost even more.
charz wrote: Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.
I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.
I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.
Trukk boyz are very fragile and prone to failing morale tests given their low numbers. It's generally best to keep them cheap and cheerful by avoiding giving them upgrades besides the Nob with bosspole and power klaw. The trukk is so easy to wreck that they won't have much time to use it as a gunboat and even if it doesn't die, any penetrating hits will likely force them to snapshot since they only have Ld7.
Trukk boyz also work off on redundancy, at the very least you should have 3 squads. Defensively, the void shield generator is a good way to give them turn one protection before they rocket off to target units. I like to run even numbers so I can pair them off or work them in tandem with MANZ missiles as their limited numbers means that you need to stack the odds in your favour against enemy units. Teaming them up against enemies in this way helps mitigate overwatch casualties as well as neutralizing their main weakness of having Nobz being challenged out since they can only take one out of the fight if you have 2 trukk boyz units engaged.
Trukk upgrades wise, keep them cheap and simple as well, the only mandatory upgrade is the reinforced ram so they don't get immobilized.
charz wrote: Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.
I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.
I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.
Trukk boyz are very fragile and prone to failing morale tests given their low numbers. It's generally best to keep them cheap and cheerful by avoiding giving them upgrades besides the Nob with bosspole and power klaw. The trukk is so easy to wreck that they won't have much time to use it as a gunboat and even if it doesn't die, any penetrating hits will likely force them to snapshot since they only have Ld7.
Trukk boyz also work off on redundancy, at the very least you should have 3 squads. Defensively, the void shield generator is a good way to give them turn one protection before they rocket off to target units. I like to run even numbers so I can pair them off or work them in tandem with MANZ missiles as their limited numbers means that you need to stack the odds in your favour against enemy units. Teaming them up against enemies in this way helps mitigate overwatch casualties as well as neutralizing their main weakness of having Nobz being challenged out since they can only take one out of the fight if you have 2 trukk boyz units engaged.
Trukk upgrades wise, keep them cheap and simple as well, the only mandatory upgrade is the reinforced ram so they don't get immobilized.
So how would you equip Nobz to have a use in any of the formations that require normal Nobz to be taken?
I've been having a bit of success with 3 Nobz on bikes all with big choppas doing some harassing. They normally get ignored in a list involving Trukk Boyz/MANZ Missiles and a blob of normal bikers hiding my Warboss, and if they can get to a backline they really pack a punch on the charge tying up things that it'd be a waste sending your dedicated melee units to.
I balk a bit at the 150 point price tag but it's the only way I've found to give them a purpose
I, too, use biker nobz almost exclusively when I have to take them. It's a crazy expensive as I have it as a 4 biker nob squad with 2 PKs 2 BCs and a waaagh banner. something around 260 points. It hurts mah point budget...
Sometimes they can be a good bodyguard for a MA warboss, and here you can seriously consider skimping on Eavy Armor seeing as the Warboss can tank the non-ap2 hits (especially if you gave him DLS). I would give them all Big Choppas (because for 5pts a piece, why not?), maybe one with a klaw if you have the points, and stick them in a trukk with a RR. In this case, I wouldn't go over 5 nobs unless I had some serous points to burn.
Just by themselves? Eeh, I don't know. They're too expensive to give a ton of claws to (seeing as MANZ are actually CHEAPER and come with a 2+ save. I mean come on!). I still wouldn't want to go over a 5 man squad max. I would give them big choppas, maaaaybe a klaw or two, possibly combi-scorchas if you run into hordes, and possibly Eavy Armor if you don't run into AP4 or better that much. If you do, skip it, and have them run around with a 6+. And get those nobz a trukk. Nobz love trukks.
3 barebones to cap points and protect your mek guns and lootas against an odd marine biker or two. Or to give cover to a trukk turn 1. It's very annoying to have one biker sweep squad after squad of mek guns.
If I NEED to take Nobz I take them naked. Its a waste of points but its better then reinforcing the failure that is Ork Nobz in this version of 40k.
There are literally no good ways of taking nobz, even MA Nobz aren't that scary. Giving a Nob a bike is just a HUGE point sink. What is it? 45pts for a single Nob on Bike? You can field a bit more then 2 Warbikers for that same price.
So yeah, naked nobz if I NEED to take them, and then I do what has been suggested, use them as back field objective holders or to guard the lootas/Mek Gunz from random Deep strikers or FA units. otherwise they are just a waste of time/points and effort.
Fair enough to just keeping Nobz barebones but I've found that doing that causes them to be just wasted points, whereas if you spend a little more on them they can at least fulfill a purpose in your army even if they're a bit overcosted in doing so.
On another note (more of a rules query really) if I was to take an Ork Warband and add the Mek from that into a unit from another formation, let's say the snikrot one, would he get the benefit from those formations rules? It's been a while since I read the Mekaniak rule and don't have a codex on hand currently.
tikhunt wrote: Fair enough to just keeping Nobz barebones but I've found that doing that causes them to be just wasted points, whereas if you spend a little more on them they can at least fulfill a purpose in your army even if they're a bit overcosted in doing so.
On another note (more of a rules query really) if I was to take an Ork Warband and add the Mek from that into a unit from another formation, let's say the snikrot one, would he get the benefit from those formations rules? It's been a while since I read the Mekaniak rule and don't have a codex on hand currently.
What do you give them to fulfill a role though?
If you want them to be biker, Warbikers are significantly cheaper and better to take. (Warbiker nob is only 28pts....)
If you want them to be a CC unit and give them Eavy armor and a PK your actually better off taking MA Nobz or realistically a unit of Boyz with a single Nob PK.
If you want them to be objective holders, why upgrade them at all?
See what i mean? There is literally nothing they can do that something else in the codex can do better.
Glitcha wrote: I run mine as 5 in a trukk with a power klaw on the non character nob and the mek is with them as well. Basically the throw away unit.
That's just a lot of points to throw away. I think 54 pts for 6 wounds of Nobz is enough of a waste. I don't even want to count up all of those points mentioned above.
Question. How many KMK's should I have in a unit? I've tried 2 units of 5. and they seemed to me to do really poorly. I lost 2 in one unit to over heating and one in the other to the same. While inflicting minimal casualties to the enemy, white Scar bikers.
They seemed to deviate way too much. I'm starting to rethink my artillery again. How have they been doing for all of you?
My KMKs either do nothing at all or perform amazingly. They're pretty unreliable, yeah, but I've been looking into lobbas instead. That seems to be the big thing right now.
Vitali Advenil wrote: My KMKs either do nothing at all or perform amazingly. They're pretty unreliable, yeah, but I've been looking into lobbas instead. That seems to be the big thing right now.
I proxied a unit of lobbas to go with my unit of KMKs. KMKs are great because they can pop AV13 vehicles and mess up heavy infantry. I like them but I wish they had a long range version of the Grotzooka. So kind of like a 2 shot Lobba.
Pathetically even in 7th edition orks have a problem popping vehicles with the exception of close combat attacks.
warhead01 wrote: Question. How many KMK's should I have in a unit? I've tried 2 units of 5. and they seemed to me to do really poorly. I lost 2 in one unit to over heating and one in the other to the same. While inflicting minimal casualties to the enemy, white Scar bikers.
They seemed to deviate way too much. I'm starting to rethink my artillery again. How have they been doing for all of you?
I've used minimal units. 2 units of 2, supported by lobbas. They're not as consistent as lobbas due to Gets Hot! and since we go by FAQ draft rules that means we can't re-roll ones for Get's Hot! with my Ammo runtz those results hurt quite a bit. So far they've been fairly reliable, I have a weird consistency to roll hits with blasts and since I face Necrons and Eldar mainly, the S8 really helps against Reanimation from his warriors/immortals and the AP2 forces Eldar jetbikes to jink. I think they need to fulfill a niche like that to be considered taking over lobbas since for everything else the lobbas have been much better, especially given their longer range and not needing line of sight.
I stopped using kmk in favor of lootas even before the faq. It's just that blasts are not great cause it seems that every worthwhile target is invisible. And overheats are a huge problem for grots.
I moved down from 2 units of 5 to 2 units of 2 with 2 more single KMK's in my last game. I'm thinking about trading two out for bubble chukkas. I have lootas in my list. I'm running 2 cad and a Dakka jet formation. So far my 50 point grot mobs seem to be the stand out units. Inn game one I had a pain boy in one of the KMK units to help with over heat but I really think he needs to be somewhere else where. The FNP rolls were mostly fails.
He's made a noticeable impact with my shoota boy mob in game two. I don't own any Lobbas I was always a Kannon fan but still only own three of those.
Glitcha wrote: I run mine as 5 in a trukk with a power klaw on the non character nob and the mek is with them as well. Basically the throw away unit.
That's just a lot of points to throw away. I think 54 pts for 6 wounds of Nobz is enough of a waste. I don't even want to count up all of those points mentioned above.
How is it a throw away? Its another threat moving across the table. The unit can provide support to another squad of guys. Plus you have another trukk that can zip around the table to grab objectives. I'll admit I usually just chuck the unit at something, but it still servers a purpose in the strategy. Also, you are required by the waagh band to take 1 unit of nobz. You might as well make them usually to you since you have to take them for the formation.
warhead01 wrote: Question. How many KMK's should I have in a unit? I've tried 2 units of 5. and they seemed to me to do really poorly. I lost 2 in one unit to over heating and one in the other to the same. While inflicting minimal casualties to the enemy, white Scar bikers.
They seemed to deviate way too much. I'm starting to rethink my artillery again. How have they been doing for all of you?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Get's Hot on Artillery takes wounds thru the crew. Since the Gretchin have no armor you quite literally just take a gretchin off every time you roll that one (mitigated by Ammo runts). I found 2 units of 4 KMKs (8 total) - with 4-5 extra grots to help mitigate the deaths from Gets Hot and prevent leadership checks - works quite nicely. I've been custom to attach Mega Armoured Warbosses for tanking wounds and giving Artillery another 6" of threat (via Slow n Purposeful).
Currently, I took them out of my list and swapped them with the AA version as Fateweaver alone is the greatest threat to my current Ork list.
@Glitcha, I'm not trying convince you to switch over to the dark side!!! Muhahahah - I just stated that I agreed SemperMortis. I like keeping my Nobz naked and as cheap as possible. If the enemy has a hard time dealing with a trukk full of some Nobz with any equipment at all, he probably lost already - due to his own list building. The Nobz are already expensive af and even with a 4+, most armies only have to dedicate a unit or two to wipe them. I'd rather have 3 naked Nobz sitting out of LOS and on my home objectives (usually assisting my Big Gunz). A lot of list building in 40k is preference. To each their own
You know, I have no idea I'll have to look that up. That would actually make them "better". I'd rather loose a crew than a gun any day. I may have to put more points into the unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You know, I have no idea I'll have to look that up. That would actually make them "better". I'd rather loose a crew than a gun any day. I may have to put more points into the unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Double post...Bizarre..
I can't find that gets hot on crew in the rule book was it in the faq?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Got it. The crew is firing. So the crew would suffer the gets hot.
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
I've been considering this myself but solely for the purpose of making it a looted knight. I'd play it pretty aggresively. Send it up along with da boyz.
I just bought my first Trukk and want to know if rokkits are the way to go. I've been told before that it is but the math just seems wrong. Given that these trukks are driving boyz armed with slugga's, does the 2 in six chance of a rokkit hitting really outweigh the advantage of three slightly weaker shots?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is my new 500 point list after listening to da council.
charz wrote: I just bought my first Trukk and want to know if rokkits are the way to go. I've been told before that it is but the math just seems wrong. Given that these trukks are driving boyz armed with slugga's, does the 2 in six chance of a rokkit hitting really outweigh the advantage of three slightly weaker shots?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is my new 500 point list after listening to da council.
Rokkit launchers in general are better taken than big shootas on Ork vehicles since they're free to swap and the damage range difference from S5 AP5 to S8 AP3 is pretty significant. On average you'll get one hit from the big shoota but you generally won't ignore armour and will normally wound on 3's. The rokkit however can make up for potentially half or more of the cost of the trukk since it can kill a marine in one shot or penetrate/glance a vehicle. The damage potential on the rokkit is good enough that the low chances of hitting is not a big deal. You also have to factor that in most cases you have more than one trukk, so having multiple ones with rokkits means that the odds starts piling up in your favour.
Orks generally don't need anymore help against infantry which our boyz are fine against. What we lack is good ranged anti-MC/vehicle and a surplus of rokkits helps us deal with that.
Glitcha wrote: Allied Renegade knights? Has anyone tried this?
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
I have used a renegade knight will dual gatling cannons as an ally and it has worked wonders. Either it is ignored and deals a ton of damage or eats a lot of fire allowing my melee units to get to where they need to be.
I run a maxed unit of Lobbas AND KMK's in a 2000 point Ocurion. Both have their uses. Opponents usually go after the KMK's first even though Lobbas are routinely MVP's. I run maxed sized units even though I have plenty of slots so the unit can take more casualties and still be effective and better use of ammo runts. The KMK's overheat is really annoying but still very effective against most heavy/multiwound units. Both camp objectives well.
In that same Orcurion I run a single unit of 3 MANz all with Killsaws in a Trukk with RR. Never lets me down!
Ghaz and Friends run in a single Battlewagon with four rokkits and a kannon with RR.
My alternate non-Ocurion list is Bullyboyz in BlitzBrigade all with 4 rokkits and Kannon. Two full units of Tankbustas in the other two BW's gives me 55 rockkits first turn. Fun!
Glitcha wrote: Allied Renegade knights? Has anyone tried this?
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
Ive used it. I think Dual Gatling cannon is probably the best loadout, since he'd still be pretty good in assault.
I went for Battle Cannon and CC weapon for coolness, and it worked out well. Having some long range pie plates was a good bonus for Orks as they dont really have any, and the CC ability let it kill a Monstrous Creature which is something Orks struggle against.
Here's my looted Knight, Mad Morx. He walks the fury road, eternal and red.
Ammo runts are bought on a per-model basis. So you can't re-roll just any miss with it - you got to keep track of what gun is shooting and if it still has an ammo runt to use.
Glitcha wrote: Allied Renegade knights? Has anyone tried this?
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
Ive used it. I think Dual Gatling cannon is probably the best loadout, since he'd still be pretty good in assault.
I went for Battle Cannon and CC weapon for coolness, and it worked out well. Having some long range pie plates was a good bonus for Orks as they dont really have any, and the CC ability let it kill a Monstrous Creature which is something Orks struggle against.
Here's my looted Knight, Mad Morx. He walks the fury road, eternal and red.
Now that is one proper orky walker. Well done my friend, that looks amazing and shows creative usages of parts from other kits. May it Waaagh! forever, stompy and flash.
Glitcha wrote: Allied Renegade knights? Has anyone tried this?
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
Ive used it. I think Dual Gatling cannon is probably the best loadout, since he'd still be pretty good in assault.
I went for Battle Cannon and CC weapon for coolness, and it worked out well. Having some long range pie plates was a good bonus for Orks as they dont really have any, and the CC ability let it kill a Monstrous Creature which is something Orks struggle against.
Here's my looted Knight, Mad Morx. He walks the fury road, eternal and red.
Waaagh 18 wrote: Which Ork book has the Orkurion stuff in it? What are the benefits of the formation?
The updated Ghazz supplement. Basically Waaagh every turn and units with 10+ models have HoW. The non walker core portion has LITERALLY the same zogging rules as the overall Orkurion so gives no benefits basically. The Walker core has fear and reroll charge for the infantry (but infantry units have 20 model minimums).
Waaagh 18 wrote: Which Ork book has the Orkurion stuff in it? What are the benefits of the formation?
The updated Ghazz supplement. Basically Waaagh every turn and units with 10+ models have HoW. The non walker core portion has LITERALLY the same zogging rules as the overall Orkurion so gives no benefits basically. The Walker core has fear and reroll charge for the infantry (but infantry units have 20 model minimums).
So Orks gain Waaagh every turn, gain HoW, lose objective secured, but walkers gain fear? Do people think it's better than a CAD? I have the non updated Ghazz supplement, is the Orkurion the only thing added?
Waaagh 18 wrote: Which Ork book has the Orkurion stuff in it? What are the benefits of the formation?
The updated Ghazz supplement. Basically Waaagh every turn and units with 10+ models have HoW. The non walker core portion has LITERALLY the same zogging rules as the overall Orkurion so gives no benefits basically. The Walker core has fear and reroll charge for the infantry (but infantry units have 20 model minimums).
So Orks gain Waaagh every turn, gain HoW, lose objective secured, but walkers gain fear? Do people think it's better than a CAD? I have the non updated Ghazz supplement, is the Orkurion the only thing added?
Generally the reception for the updated Waaagh! Ghaz and the Orkurion has been pretty negative as it didn't change any of the rules or formations that made the initial release didappointing. There's still the +2 to Mob Rule rolls and forced issuing and accepting of challenges for your Warlord (these alone make the whole book close to unusable in my eyes), only one decent relic and the Command Benefits/special rules granted by formations/detachments dont generally make up for their inflexibility.
Some more negatives of the Orkurion include only being able to take one Command choice (a single Big Mek, Mek, Painboy, Weirdboy or the Council of Waaagh! deathstar), the core choices being comprised of the Waaagh!-band (a Warboss, a Mek, a unit of Nobz/Mega Nobz, six units of Boyz and a unit of Gretchin) or the Goff Killmob (a Warboss/Grukk da Facerippa, a unit of Nobz, three units of 20+ Boyz, a Gorkanaut, two Deff Dreads and a unit of 3+ Killa Kanz) and lacklustre or redundant special rules and Command Benefits.
A big positive is that we have a lot of flexibility in our Auxiliary choices (we can have 1-10 of these) which include all of the W!G formations as well as the option for single units of almost anything in the codex. The other great boon is that if you're using the Council of Waaagh! as your Command choice (and you should be) all Orks are Fearless from your first turn onwards, providing you can keep Ghazghkull alive with his 2+ invulnerable save. Thus nearly negating the Biggest an' da Best and Da Boss iz Watchin' Command 'Benefits'. All in all it's actually quite a fun Detachment despite my negativity but it definitely does better at 2000 points or over rather than under be a use of the cost of the nigh-essential Council deathstar.
Other than that the updated supplement gave us new formations for Dakkajets, Blitza-bommers and Burna-bommers. Other than that it includes some formations that were printed previously in another book whose name I've forgotten and fixes the perplexing bonus of Furious Charge in the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew formation. In addition to that the update didn't include the Greentide formation or the Great Waaagh! detachment, the latter of which no one cared about but the former was a bit of a surprise. I think that's about it really.
As for it being better than a CAD it really depends on what sort of list you want to build. I persinally have never won a game because of Objective Secured on my Troops but I find the CAD to be nice and flexible and allows far greater subtlety where the Orkurion removes a lot of your flexibility (particularly at lower points games) but allows a fairly effective brute force approach with Fearless Orks and the Ghaz deathstar.
They also removed greentide. But than in faq said: "...well...u can probably still use it cause it was in one of the books, right?..".
As for the effectiveness of orcurion, there are some people who like it. But it's extremely restrictive cause of the core's enormous price and than you're stuck with ghazz mobrule that's only fixed with fearless whicheither requires you to roll a 1 on warlord traits or take Ghaz and the only way to take Ghaz is either with Cad or his formation that'd cost another half of a 1850+ list.
Probably the best use of this detachment is an unexpected one. You basically go min units of everything without any upgrades whatsoever. Get a bunch of solo koptas, probably a megaboss with mek gunz. Extreme msu all in all. It can be quite unusual.
However, for like 99% of the players the book brought absolutely nothing, I still prefer bully boyz + cad and VSG.
I love the new Orkurion for the auxillary slots. The Council of Waaagh deathstar is a joke and way too many points to be effective. I'd rather have 2 rolls on the WLT and "try" to get fearless than waste 700+ pts into 1 star that can't break up ever.
@koooaei, - IMO, you run what you mention (bully boyz, cad, VSG, Zhadsnark WL) or you run Orkurion and maximize Auxiliary slots. I like the latter choice, but I'm crazy
Any one ever use gun trukks? Looking at battle scribe and noticed them. I'm sure they're in IA8. I'm looking at the supper scorcha for them. looks like the unit can be up to 5 strong.
warhead01 wrote: Any one ever use gun trukks? Looking at battle scribe and noticed them. I'm sure they're in IA8. I'm looking at the supper scorcha for them. looks like the unit can be up to 5 strong.
I've done the same thing and contemplated using gun trukks with supa skorchas myself, given that a fast platform with S6 AP3 is tasty especially for us Orks who lack a low AP flamer (especially against annoying targets like elder jetbikes). It quickly runs into some issues though, as similar to banewolfs in IG lists, it lacks torrent and if your opponent knows what it does they will promptly shoot it down before it gets anywhere near their desired targets. AV10 with only 3 HP and open-topped means they're guaranteed to die in the current meta and unlike normal trukks, have a substantially higher cost to them with their gun upgrade. Even with squadrons, if you get close enough to your target they will be guaranteed to die the next turn in either assault given their short weapon range or return fire. I feel that to use them properly you have to take Mogrok's Boss Boyz and give a squadron of them outflank so that way you can have the best chance at getting at your target without getting alpha striked or shot to bits first.
Yep, on lot of the! I hadn't thought about Morgork but I was thinking I'd leave them in reserves and bate in my opponents Bikes. ( His whole army) I Just need him to get some units with in range to fry them. I'm thinking only two gun trukks like that for two reason. one is the cost and two in they can't target separate units. I'd even go for 3 as singles I think using the same plan.
I MSU just about everything that's not a boys mob and use 2 to 3 cad right now, mean while he's min/maxing his whole army. (I'm just trying to keep up!)
On a side note I'm also looking at big trakks with big Zapps. any thoughts on those?
warhead01 wrote: Yep, on lot of the! I hadn't thought about Morgork but I was thinking I'd leave them in reserves and bate in my opponents Bikes. ( His whole army) I Just need him to get some units with in range to fry them. I'm thinking only two gun trukks like that for two reason. one is the cost and two in they can't target separate units. I'd even go for 3 as singles I think using the same plan.
I MSU just about everything that's not a boys mob and use 2 to 3 cad right now, mean while he's min/maxing his whole army. (I'm just trying to keep up!)
On a side note I'm also looking at big trakks with big Zapps. any thoughts on those?
Big zzapas seem...iffy to me, at least on gun trukks. If you could get grot crew to fire them at BS3 I would be more inclined to try them out, but with random shots and random strength I don't think they're worth the investment on such a flimsy platform, even if it has 48" range. On average, you get a glorified long range no gets hot! plasma gun at BS2. KMK outdo them outside of Gets Hot! issues and even smasha guns seem more reliable due to BS3 and ammo runts.
Glitcha wrote: Allied Renegade knights? Has anyone tried this?
I was looking into getting a cheaper LoW than my stompa in a list. One of my friends that helps me list build made the suggestion. I noticed that the Renegade knights can take different loadouts than the imperial knights. I was thinking about using 1 with double rotatory gun. (24 str 6 ap 3 rending shots at BS4) The knight is still str 10 and ap 2 for melee and has stompa attacks.
Now thinking of some workable strategies. One is to provide covering/suppressing fire to my forward advance. I could divide up my shots into 2 groups of 12 shots.
Ive used it. I think Dual Gatling cannon is probably the best loadout, since he'd still be pretty good in assault.
I went for Battle Cannon and CC weapon for coolness, and it worked out well. Having some long range pie plates was a good bonus for Orks as they dont really have any, and the CC ability let it kill a Monstrous Creature which is something Orks struggle against.
Here's my looted Knight, Mad Morx. He walks the fury road, eternal and red.
Wow! That's great!
This is the start of mine. I found it second it hand really cheap. So I'm working on converting it. He does not have his arms on him. I removed the old ones because they were not the best conversion.
I'm disappointed to see they decided to stick with the rules change regarding only 1 grenade per phase, yes even in the Assault phase.
Q: Using grenades in the Assault phase. Can every model replace their close combat attacks with a single grenade attack or just one model in the unit? Like in the Shooting phase e.g. a unit of 5 Tau Pathfinders charge a Knight. Do 5 Pathfinders make close combat haywire grenade attacks?
A: Only one model from the unit can attack with a grenade in the Assault phase. Per Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, ‘Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase’.
Glitcha wrote: Bubble on the KFF for the blast jet got bigger. You can now measure from any part of the model.
I hate to be negative Nancy here but...who cares? A massively overpriced AV10 flyer with a KFF is really not in anyway fun to play. Its really just a good way to throw away points.
Making sure I'm reading this right per the new FAQ:
If an IC with SNP is in a transport with a unit containing Heavy weapons (Lootas), the unit can only fire snap shots if the transport moves, regardless of SNP. It doesn't matter if the transport moves at Combat speed or Cruising speed, because both options result in snap shots for the unit carrying Heavy weapons. On the other hand, if a unit with Heavy weapons and SNP is footslogging, they can fire at full BS per the SNP rule? Is that right?
I have a ork 1000 pts list that I would really ask advice on.
HQ Big Mek: Mega armour, KFF.
120pt
Troops
Boyz 15: shootaz, big shoota, Nob, PK, BP.
150pt
Boyz 20: big shoota, rocket launcha, Nob, PK, BP 170pt
Elites:
Tank bustas 7 and 2 squigs
100pt
Burna boyz 5, 1 mek
90pt
Fast Attack.
Dakka jet: Flyboss, 3 Supa shootaz.
145pt
Heavy support: Lootas 6+mek
98pt
Battlewagon: ram, 4 big shootaz, killcannon, Grabbin klaw.
180pt
Automatically Appended Next Post: I use shoota boyz as a live shield for my BW and my tank bustaz and boyz go around tank hunting and picking on objective holders while lootaz and mek sit inside the wagon, happily dakkaing away at everything and my dakka jet serves as a incoming fire support, and lootas act as horde cleaners to help the BW death star.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BW: battlewagon
Automatically Appended Next Post: Weel I am over by 53 pt
Q: Regarding Barrage weapons and vehicles – how do you
determine which side is hit?
A: Assume the shot is coming from the centre of the
blast marker and hits the nearest side.
Now they can hit a lot of vehicles. Low probability for success, but with 5 of them they might get a glance or two.
Is there any kind of reasonably good speed freaks list right now? I could always just drop some shoota boys in trukks and warbikers on the table, but every list I can think of just seems grossly ineffective.
sushi2001 wrote: I have a ork 1000 pts list that I would really ask advice on.
HQ Big Mek: Mega armour, KFF.
120pt
Troops
Boyz 15: shootaz, big shoota, Nob, PK, BP.
150pt
Boyz 20: big shoota, rocket launcha, Nob, PK, BP 170pt
Elites:
Tank bustas 7 and 2 squigs
100pt
Burna boyz 5, 1 mek
90pt
Fast Attack.
Dakka jet: Flyboss, 3 Supa shootaz.
145pt
Heavy support: Lootas 6+mek
98pt
Battlewagon: ram, 4 big shootaz, killcannon, Grabbin klaw.
180pt
Automatically Appended Next Post: I use shoota boyz as a live shield for my BW and my tank bustaz and boyz go around tank hunting and picking on objective holders while lootaz and mek sit inside the wagon, happily dakkaing away at everything and my dakka jet serves as a incoming fire support, and lootas act as horde cleaners to help the BW death star.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BW: battlewagon
Automatically Appended Next Post: Weel I am over by 53 pt
I would cut the burna boyz. and the battlewagon. You probably wont need the AV 14 battlewagon in a 100 point game. Take a MA Warboss with DLS. Its too good to pass up. You may add or replace the big mek with him. Cut the dakka jet and throw more lootas in the list. Also strongly consider giving your units transports.
Manwhale wrote: Is there any kind of reasonably good speed freaks list right now? I could always just drop some shoota boys in trukks and warbikers on the table, but every list I can think of just seems grossly ineffective.
Bikes are good, deffkoptas are decent, put some meganobz or tankbustas in trukks, throw boyz in battlewagons, etc. Just use a lot of vehicles. It's basically what I do already because footslogging just doesn't work.
xlDuke wrote: Generally the reception for the updated Waaagh! Ghaz and the Orkurion has been pretty negative as it didn't change any of the rules or formations that made the initial release didappointing.
>snip<
Other than that the updated supplement gave us new formations for Dakkajets, Blitza-bommers and Burna-bommers. Other than that it includes some formations that were printed previously in another book whose name I've forgotten and fixes the perplexing bonus of Furious Charge in the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew formation. In addition to that the update didn't include the Greentide formation or the Great Waaagh! detachment, the latter of which no one cared about but the former was a bit of a surprise. I think that's about it really.
As for it being better than a CAD it really depends on what sort of list you want to build. I persinally have never won a game because of Objective Secured on my Troops but I find the CAD to be nice and flexible and allows far greater subtlety where the Orkurion removes a lot of your flexibility (particularly at lower points games) but allows a fairly effective brute force approach with Fearless Orks and the Ghaz deathstar.
So I bought the LE Ork dex when it was initially released, which came with W!G. Is the new book available anywhere physically anymore? I cannot stand their Android ebooks.
xlDuke wrote: Generally the reception for the updated Waaagh! Ghaz and the Orkurion has been pretty negative as it didn't change any of the rules or formations that made the initial release didappointing.
>snip<
Other than that the updated supplement gave us new formations for Dakkajets, Blitza-bommers and Burna-bommers. Other than that it includes some formations that were printed previously in another book whose name I've forgotten and fixes the perplexing bonus of Furious Charge in the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew formation. In addition to that the update didn't include the Greentide formation or the Great Waaagh! detachment, the latter of which no one cared about but the former was a bit of a surprise. I think that's about it really.
As for it being better than a CAD it really depends on what sort of list you want to build. I persinally have never won a game because of Objective Secured on my Troops but I find the CAD to be nice and flexible and allows far greater subtlety where the Orkurion removes a lot of your flexibility (particularly at lower points games) but allows a fairly effective brute force approach with Fearless Orks and the Ghaz deathstar.
So I bought the LE Ork dex when it was initially released, which came with W!G. Is the new book available anywhere physically anymore? I cannot stand their Android ebooks.
I wouldn't bother with it. The flyer formations are useless and the mega formation is garbage. Your better off using a CAD or the codex formations.
Flyer formations are ok IF you where planning on bringing the flyers anyways. The Dakkajet one is the most practical because it actually helps the jets do something they aren't great at which is killing flyers. It also makes it easier to take other fast attack units and my 3 flyers without the need to double CAD. Again its not game changing but its something.
That said the updated supplement is basically a joke and the Orkcurion is an unwieldly piece of gak that's only saving grace is building a Ghazz Deathstar (which is fairly weak by Deathstar standards) and MSU cheesing the lazy design of the auxiliary options.
Vankraken wrote: Flyer formations are ok IF you where planning on bringing the flyers anyways. The Dakkajet one is the most practical because it actually helps the jets do something they aren't great at which is killing flyers. It also makes it easier to take other fast attack units and my 3 flyers without the need to double CAD. Again its not game changing but its something.
That said the updated supplement is basically a joke and the Orkcurion is an unwieldly piece of gak that's only saving grace is building a Ghazz Deathstar (which is fairly weak by Deathstar standards) and MSU cheesing the lazy design of the auxiliary options.
If you were planning on bringing flyers you were already playing at a handicap though. what is it? 140+pts for a AV10 flyer that puts out 9 TL S6 shots a turn? Not exactly frightening, and if your bringing the wing, then your tying up a large portion of your army in useless vehicles.
I just got my hands on a box of Meganobz and some old metal ones, bringing my total up to 12. I'm thinking of getting one more box, so I'll have 15 and can use the Bully Boyz formation, but is it worth it?
Meganobz are one of my favorite Orky units, but they seem overcosted by far and taking 15 of them is a pretty hefty investment. Without an invuln, and with 2+ Armor being pretty weaksauce of late, I feel like they're just going to go down without much pomp, under the circumstances. AP2 is common, and S8 AP2 is less common, but still pretty easy to find.
Yeah, getting Fearless is nice, and WS5 can potentially break some heads, (Or even Ws6 if you throw in a Lukky Stick,) but is it worth it for the unit you get, since they might never get to swing before they're dead? (Comparatively, Custodes cost the same as a Meganob with Buzzsaws, and while the Meganob does get +2 S and Armorbane in that comparison, the Custodes wins out in literally every other regard.)
Meganobz are still great, they just need some trukks or battle wagons to speed them forward. Although they can die to grav spam, if you flood the table with them and many other threats one may get into combat, and that's where they shine. They are way more effective than they look on paper as long as not every model has ap2 or ap2 at initiative they will take their points worth or more. Definitely one of the best units in our codex.
Vankraken wrote: Flyer formations are ok IF you where planning on bringing the flyers anyways. The Dakkajet one is the most practical because it actually helps the jets do something they aren't great at which is killing flyers. It also makes it easier to take other fast attack units and my 3 flyers without the need to double CAD. Again its not game changing but its something.
That said the updated supplement is basically a joke and the Orkcurion is an unwieldly piece of gak that's only saving grace is building a Ghazz Deathstar (which is fairly weak by Deathstar standards) and MSU cheesing the lazy design of the auxiliary options.
If you were planning on bringing flyers you were already playing at a handicap though. what is it? 140+pts for a AV10 flyer that puts out 9 TL S6 shots a turn? Not exactly frightening, and if your bringing the wing, then your tying up a large portion of your army in useless vehicles.
I've had good success with them as they tend to draw a lot of fire, have the reach to threaten the backfield support units that lootas/lobbas might not be able to LoS or reach, and it does work against flyers while not being exposed to artillery that can nuke them off the board turn 1 (which is the bane of lootas). They are fun to use and they do alright for me most games so I don't have any real complaints about them other than that they got an unjustified nerf in 7th edition.
Waaaghpower wrote: I just got my hands on a box of Meganobz and some old metal ones, bringing my total up to 12. I'm thinking of getting one more box, so I'll have 15 and can use the Bully Boyz formation, but is it worth it?
Meganobz are one of my favorite Orky units, but they seem overcosted by far and taking 15 of them is a pretty hefty investment. Without an invuln, and with 2+ Armor being pretty weaksauce of late, I feel like they're just going to go down without much pomp, under the circumstances. AP2 is common, and S8 AP2 is less common, but still pretty easy to find.
Yeah, getting Fearless is nice, and WS5 can potentially break some heads, (Or even Ws6 if you throw in a Lukky Stick,) but is it worth it for the unit you get, since they might never get to swing before they're dead? (Comparatively, Custodes cost the same as a Meganob with Buzzsaws, and while the Meganob does get +2 S and Armorbane in that comparison, the Custodes wins out in literally every other regard.)
If you like meganobz, it's your lucky time. The bullyboyz formation is decent. That's what i'm running. And custodes don't win out simply because they don't have trukks.
I'm running them as:
2 killsaws
1 skorcha
1 regular
1 boss regular
trukk with ram and rokkit
Keeping trukks alive can prove problematic but voidshield generator and chaff units in trukks - like 5 tankbustas or 10 naked boyz in a trukk or simply an empty trukk do help out as they can hop in when needed.
So far they've won a grav cent + calgar + libconclave + honor guard list, kharn + dogs + sorkabal list twice and a renegade list with ignorecover apoc s10 ap1 baneblade - doomhammer or something like this, i think - they all sound the same. And i haven't played vs anything else yet. So, 4 winsout of 4 so far. And i'd not call the lists i faced off casual either. They'd completely wreck my previous footslogging list 19 times out of 20.
Waaaghpower wrote: I just got my hands on a box of Meganobz and some old metal ones, bringing my total up to 12. I'm thinking of getting one more box, so I'll have 15 and can use the Bully Boyz formation, but is it worth it?
Meganobz are one of my favorite Orky units, but they seem overcosted by far and taking 15 of them is a pretty hefty investment. Without an invuln, and with 2+ Armor being pretty weaksauce of late, I feel like they're just going to go down without much pomp, under the circumstances. AP2 is common, and S8 AP2 is less common, but still pretty easy to find.
Yeah, getting Fearless is nice, and WS5 can potentially break some heads, (Or even Ws6 if you throw in a Lukky Stick,) but is it worth it for the unit you get, since they might never get to swing before they're dead? (Comparatively, Custodes cost the same as a Meganob with Buzzsaws, and while the Meganob does get +2 S and Armorbane in that comparison, the Custodes wins out in literally every other regard.)
If you like meganobz, it's your lucky time. The bullyboyz formation is decent. That's what i'm running. And custodes don't win out simply because they don't have trukks.
I'm running them as:
2 killsaws
1 skorcha
1 regular
1 boss regular
trukk with ram and rokkit
Keeping trukks alive can prove problematic but voidshield generator and chaff units in trukks - like 5 tankbustas or 10 naked boyz in a trukk or simply an empty trukk do help out as they can hop in when needed.
So far they've won a grav cent + calgar + libconclave + honor guard list, kharn + dogs + sorkabal list twice and a renegade list with ignorecover apoc s10 ap1 baneblade - doomhammer or something like this, i think - they all sound the same. And i haven't played vs anything else yet. So, 4 winsout of 4 so far. And i'd not call the lists i faced off casual either. They'd completely wreck my previous footslogging list 19 times out of 20.
Thinking of changing to a fluffier list, but I still need a bit of advice on making it work. What's the cheapest way for orks to get bonuses/rerolls on reserves rolls?
gnome_idea_what wrote: Thinking of changing to a fluffier list, but I still need a bit of advice on making it work. What's the cheapest way for orks to get bonuses/rerolls on reserves rolls?
Aegis Defense Line with a Command Relay, or whatever it's called. You get a nice cover line, and rerolls on Reserves. (I think? I haven't used it in a while. Some kind of Reserves bonus.)
Q: Regarding Barrage weapons and vehicles – how do you
determine which side is hit?
A: Assume the shot is coming from the centre of the
blast marker and hits the nearest side.
Now they can hit a lot of vehicles. Low probability for success, but with 5 of them they might get a glance or two.
WHAT THE ?????
What is this question? It is clearly written in the rulebook: "Hits against vehicles are always resolved against their side armour."
Extremely minor buff to lobbas but a pretty major nerf to battlewagons!!
Seriously, if GW really meant to change that, why is it not an errata instead of a FAQ?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vitali Advenil wrote: Q: Must the passengers of a Fast Skimmer fire Snap Shots if
their Transport moved more than 6"?
A: Yes.
Jesus, just erase the Dark Eldar codex entirely, why don't you? Now I don't feel so bad about the tankbusta thing.
Edit: Didn't see that they got rid of the "passengers must snap fire if the transport jinked" thing.
Well, it was that even before the FAQ. It's the same for orks in trukks, you either move 6" and shoot normally (assault wpns) of 12" and shoot snapshots.
Q: Regarding Barrage weapons and vehicles – how do you
determine which side is hit?
A: Assume the shot is coming from the centre of the
blast marker and hits the nearest side.
Now they can hit a lot of vehicles. Low probability for success, but with 5 of them they might get a glance or two.
WHAT THE ?????
What is this question? It is clearly written in the rulebook: "Hits against vehicles are always resolved against their side armour."
Extremely minor buff to lobbas but a pretty major nerf to battlewagons!!
Seriously, if GW really meant to change that, why is it not an errata instead of a FAQ?
Yea, I don't think it was even one of the questions discussed. This is an outright rule change. Why GW picks one random thing and changes it when there are 100 others more worthy...
It's changing a bit from game to game - like manz getting fewer saws, an exchange of footslogging boyz for a kopta star, min kommandoes, nob gets a pk, looses a pk, gets bc, someone gets a bosspole, looses a bosspole and so on. The things set in stone are lobbas and vsg. But the last thing i was running looked like this:
Bully boyz:
2 killsaw manz + 1 skorcha man + regular man + regular boss man + ram,rokkit trukk
2 killsaw manz + 1 skorcha man + regular man + regular boss man + ram,rokkit trukk
2 killsaw manz + 1 skorcha man + regular man + regular boss man + ram,rokkit trukk
Hey guys and gals, I'm looking for advice on a little conundrum I'm debating with myself at the moment. Does using a Kustom Stompa equipped with double bursta kannons, belly gun and deff arsenal make me a not-so-fun guy to play against? To aid the answers some context may be useful: it's for a fairly high points game (probably around 3k) against CSM where I may face a Lord of Skulls and/or a Renegade Knight (but I also may not face either and it could be Rhino rush/cultist horde/Land Raider assault/psyker mischief/any number of things). The general consensus seems to be that the LoS isn't great but when you're an Ork things can look very different and I'd like to have some sort of answer to it if it does appear. If perhaps the double bursta kannons aren't the best idea what else have you guys found can work against a SHW of this calibre?
xlDuke wrote: Hey guys and gals, I'm looking for advice on a little conundrum I'm debating with myself at the moment. Does using a Kustom Stompa equipped with double bursta kannons, belly gun and deff arsenal make me a not-so-fun guy to play against? To aid the answers some context may be useful: it's for a fairly high points game (probably around 3k) against CSM where I may face a Lord of Skulls and/or a Renegade Knight (but I also may not face either and it could be Rhino rush/cultist horde/Land Raider assault/psyker mischief/any number of things). The general consensus seems to be that the LoS isn't great but when you're an Ork things can look very different and I'd like to have some sort of answer to it if it does appear. If perhaps the double bursta kannons aren't the best idea what else have you guys found can work against a SHW of this calibre?
I mean... The Lord of Skulls is a crappy titan. The Renegade Knight, however, is pretty darn good. It depends.
A Kustom Stompa is just a straight-up better Titan than the regular Stompa, or even the better-but-still-lackluster Big Mek Stompa. Taken with an identical build, it's cheaper by nearly two hundred points, and you can give it far better weapons for about the same price. However, I don't see this as a problem. Why? Because the regular Stompa is terrible. It's awful, it sucks, it's just no good.
For way, way too many points, you get a good ranged weapon, a decent machine gun that is liable to crap out on you, a few one-shot barrages, and a Melee weapon that is never going to see the light of day. It has more Hull Points than most titans, sure, but its armor is 13/13/11, so it's going to drop like a fly against reasonably good anti-tank shooting. You can give it a Kustom Force Field for a 5++, but then you're cranking up its point cost even more.
The Big Mek Stompa replaces the melee weapon with a bad-but-still-not-as-useless Lifta Droppa, which at least has the potential to cause damage, even if it isn't likely. It also gets the Gaze of Mork, which is cool, and it can take a second Deff Kannon, meaning it actually has a reasonable arsenal, if still not a great one. Unfortunately, it's only marginally more durable, and it costs almost a thousand points.
A Kustom Stompa with the loadout you're talking about is strong, yes, but it's no stronger than (For example) a Warhound titan, and for about the same cost. (A Warhound can put out 4 SD Large Blasts, you can put out 2 SD 7" blasts and a big attack once every other turn, plus some various other shooting. You're about as durable, with more hull points but weaker armor and fewer shields.)
xlDuke wrote: Hey guys and gals, I'm looking for advice on a little conundrum I'm debating with myself at the moment. Does using a Kustom Stompa equipped with double bursta kannons, belly gun and deff arsenal make me a not-so-fun guy to play against? To aid the answers some context may be useful: it's for a fairly high points game (probably around 3k) against CSM where I may face a Lord of Skulls and/or a Renegade Knight (but I also may not face either and it could be Rhino rush/cultist horde/Land Raider assault/psyker mischief/any number of things). The general consensus seems to be that the LoS isn't great but when you're an Ork things can look very different and I'd like to have some sort of answer to it if it does appear. If perhaps the double bursta kannons aren't the best idea what else have you guys found can work against a SHW of this calibre?
I mean... The Lord of Skulls is a crappy titan. The Renegade Knight, however, is pretty darn good. It depends.
A Kustom Stompa is just a straight-up better Titan than the regular Stompa, or even the better-but-still-lackluster Big Mek Stompa. Taken with an identical build, it's cheaper by nearly two hundred points, and you can give it far better weapons for about the same price. However, I don't see this as a problem. Why? Because the regular Stompa is terrible. It's awful, it sucks, it's just no good.
For way, way too many points, you get a good ranged weapon, a decent machine gun that is liable to crap out on you, a few one-shot barrages, and a Melee weapon that is never going to see the light of day. It has more Hull Points than most titans, sure, but its armor is 13/13/11, so it's going to drop like a fly against reasonably good anti-tank shooting. You can give it a Kustom Force Field for a 5++, but then you're cranking up its point cost even more.
The Big Mek Stompa replaces the melee weapon with a bad-but-still-not-as-useless Lifta Droppa, which at least has the potential to cause damage, even if it isn't likely. It also gets the Gaze of Mork, which is cool, and it can take a second Deff Kannon, meaning it actually has a reasonable arsenal, if still not a great one. Unfortunately, it's only marginally more durable, and it costs almost a thousand points.
A Kustom Stompa with the loadout you're talking about is strong, yes, but it's no stronger than (For example) a Warhound titan, and for about the same cost. (A Warhound can put out 4 SD Large Blasts, you can put out 2 SD 7" blasts and a big attack once every other turn, plus some various other shooting. You're about as durable, with more hull points but weaker armor and fewer shields.)
Those are pretty much my throughts exactly and is how I ended up deciding on the Kustom Stompa. The Lord of Skulls isn't great for its cost but it's still difficult for Orks to deal with and is fast and powerful enough to make ignoring it difficult, even more so in an Eternal War mission. The Renegade Knight, while far more points efficient than a Lord of Skulls, has fewer hull points and is less potent in combat so I have a few more ways of dealing with it. I dont think killsaws MANz or a couple units of Tankbustas are going to sort out a Lord of Skulls the same way they would a Knight. I could do Bully Boyz + tankbusta trukk spam but I'm in the mood for something more... dakka.
thenewgozoku wrote: Renegade knight can kill a stomps in close combat and costs a lot less so I think it's ok. Also or shooting is randomly efficient.
I've not had that happen yet but it's a worry and that's partly why I decided to use a shooty Stompa and not one with the strength D mega choppa.
You might change your point of view on tabletop 40k when you face enough psychers flying around in ruins exploding heads left and right. Oh, they are also invisible.
- Boss, dare's a ruin flying towards us and boyz started dying suddenly!
- Iz dere anyone in da ruin?
- ...nah, can't see a fing.
- Den stop boggin' me. Leave it be.
Has anyone contemplated this list? and what would be the negatives or benefits, besides being super expensive. I don't have the exact points but basically taking Zhadsnark the rippa and spamming bikers and cheap buggies with Big shoots into 1850onts. I would think to run it as a double CAD with two or three big squads of bikes each with a warboss on a bike and pain boy on a bike. On the side I would just have small units of bikes and give all the noobs big choopas, if that were possible. The way I have calculated it is that you can get around 220 twin linked big shoota shots pretty much taking out most MC's and light armored vehicles. While buggies and small bike units can be held in reserve and outflank to hold objectives.
Had a great casual game this weekend vs some Chaos gits- tried out a very HQ heavy list with the Boss Boyz formation:
Boss Boyz:
Big Mek 1 (warlord) - Gazbag's superbike thing, outflank with koptas
Big Mek 2 - SAG Big Mek 3 - KMB and bosspole, with shootas
Warboss - Megaarmor and Lucky Stikk, with nobz in trukk
Weirdboy - rolled Da Krunch and Warpath, with sluggas
Chaos played a pretty fluffy list, centerpiece was Abaddon with a squad of 10ish terminators, had some chosen, some long ranged support, mostly on foot.
It was one of my first maelstrom games, and it was a blast. Trukks and koptas let me outmaneuver the termies and grab points, it felt really tactical. The formation let the dread outflank, but he did very little (just finished painting him, so he wanted to participate!)
The lucky stikk warboss weathered massive amounts of punishment, amazing value. Slugga boyz took a mistep and were nearly wiped by a flamer squad, but got support and actually survived. The real stars were the Tankbustas with Badrukk, who became marine killing machines. Wiped out two squads and never lost a model.
All in all, lots of fun- refreshing not to be just charging into a gun line
Well, if they're all ML2 psykers, they get 3 warp charges due to their special rule, so that's d6+3 warp charges for each weirdboy. At 60 points a weirdboy, in an 1800 point game you could have 30 weirdboyz which translates to d6+90 warp charges.
Honestly at that point the d6 is just kinda there. You're going to get something off with 90 warp charges.
If they could give a orkish version of biomancy to the weirdboy and some armour option to survive it would be great. Or just make him cheaper and an HQ choice like mekboy.
This is my 500 point list and the same list going to 1000. Please let me know what you all think. I currently have most of the 500 point list, and have received a good deal of feedback on this, but I wonder if I'm heading in the right direction for 1000 points.
Well I went 2-1 at a local tournament today with 20 people. I placed 6th and almost got higher but the game ended too early for me there. I brought my ridiculous walker list. My opponents were fluffy salamanders, iron hands with grav cents and a bike squad with storm shields and captain smash, and last Marines with skyhammer and a raptor talon. It was interesting and the only time I lost more than half my force was the last matchup. It was a slow list but it did damage.
cranect wrote: Well I went 2-1 at a local tournament today with 20 people. I placed 6th and almost got higher but the game ended too early for me there. I brought my ridiculous walker list. My opponents were fluffy salamanders, iron hands with grav cents and a bike squad with storm shields and captain smash, and last Marines with skyhammer and a raptor talon. It was interesting and the only time I lost more than half my force was the last matchup. It was a slow list but it did damage.
I played against a new Genestealer cult player a few weeks ago. He brought all the deep striking/assault first turn shenanigans, I brought a Morkanaut, 2 Killa Kan squads (maxed, one with Grotzooka the other with big shootas) a bunch of boyz and a big mek with a sag.
I stole initiative first turn and slapped his most expensive unit of infantry with 12 Small Blast Templates from Grotzookas. I did something ridiculous like 80+ hits and wounds.
Walkers are fun because of the surprise factor, few armies expect or plan to deal with 12-15 AV11+ Walkers and it invalidates a lot of their firepower
Yes it is fun lol. I had 3 gorkanauts, 2 morkanauts, and the discount big mek stompa. Its great because we have a lot of eldar and tau with S5-7 spam which is mostly inneffective. Basically nobody wanted to go against me because they couldn't do much. The one I lost was because the SM captain on a bike got the relic turn 1 and I just couldn't quite catch him. My thought process was along the lines of now its your turn to do nothing but pick up models from the table!
Since I've been out of the game for a couple of years, I've done some reading up and watched a couple of batreps too het a feel for the game again and i have seen orks Waaagh!ing every turn including the first and even seen ghazzy having 2++ the entire game. What magic it's this! Is there something important that i have missed?
Depending on your area you can make some stuff really work. In my area not many people bring heavy armor so its all S5-6 shooting spam so I flood the board with AV13. It literally tripled the amount of melta in some lists.
Once, I faced a big squad of bikers, with a painboy and a big boss on a bike.
It was fairly strong and durable, always with a good covert and tanking with the boss.
But I have to admit: I had a bad list. Is this a common list ?
koooaei wrote: Orks can be competitive in certain ways. Even ghazcurion can win if you don't take ghaz and just spam naked msu to score everything you can.
As long as you´re not playing for killpoints, I think naked msu is not such a bad idea. If expensive enemy unit´s are overkilling your small cheap units, than they are losing their efficiency.
For example an entire necron annihilation barge shooting at a single deffkopta or something.
Wouldn´t that be something orks can majorly benefit from? Also, maybe win games with?
or am I being extremely optimistic right now?
also: does anyone have played with the painmob? i'm curious ast weather it'd be worth fielding
koooaei wrote: Orks can be competitive in certain ways. Even ghazcurion can win if you don't take ghaz and just spam naked msu to score everything you can.
As long as you´re not playing for killpoints, I think naked msu is not such a bad idea. If expensive enemy unit´s are overkilling your small cheap units, than they are losing their efficiency.
For example an entire necron annihilation barge shooting at a single deffkopta or something.
Wouldn´t that be something orks can majorly benefit from? Also, maybe win games with?
or am I being extremely optimistic right now?
also: does anyone have played with the painmob? i'm curious ast weather it'd be worth fielding
The main problem with msu lists is there is so much shooting out there (with some of it split fire) there is a good chance of getting tabled. If you lose a quarter of your army on turn 1, there is little likelihood that you'll do enough damage to survive through turn 6. Making the problem worse is any non-fearless ork unit has a very good chance of running off the table.
If there is a lot of LOS blocking terrain you might be able to build up maelstrom points and leave some hard to reach units locked up where they are hard to get to (hopefully on an objective) then the orks have a decent chance against a competitive list.
Alternative is slow play...not very nice (or legal) but helps orks survive.
I'd rather have fun in a game than winning with slow play
Yesterday I played a game against wulfmarines and i fielded 5 single kopta's which basically won me my game scattering over the table and taking objectives (their shots wiffed) and a gretchin shot the last wound of a twclol
What about 'ard boyz in trukks? Personally, these 195 pts units (slugga boyz with 'eavy armor, PKBP nob) are almost mandatory in my lists. They are oftentimes the MVPs. The 'eavy armor mitigate the explodes results and keep them alive against small arms, in close combat and against mob rule. I try to put the trukks in cover on T1 and if they survive, I turbo-boost to the next cover. I use them a bit like MANz missiles except I try to avoid the explodes results (so I keep the trukk in cover when possible). They are more mobile than MANz, have Objective Secured, etc.
I play mostly against DE, Necrons, Skitarii and Space Marines (Imperial Fists and DA). They have a lot of S8+ AP2- so MANz are not very interesting for me. I prefer 'ard boyz trukks!
What you guys think? In the original post boyz are listed as yellow - average. I would list 'ard boyz in trukks as blue - very good at least.
What about 'ard boyz in trukks? Personally, these 195 pts units (slugga boyz with 'eavy armor, PKBP nob) are almost mandatory in my lists. They are oftentimes the MVPs. The 'eavy armor mitigate the explodes results and keep them alive against small arms, in close combat and against mob rule. I try to put the trukks in cover on T1 and if they survive, I turbo-boost to the next cover. I use them a bit like MANz missiles except I try to avoid the explodes results (so I keep the trukk in cover when possible). They are more mobile than MANz, have Objective Secured, etc.
I play mostly against DE, Necrons, Skitarii and Space Marines (Imperial Fists and DA). They have a lot of S8+ AP2- so MANz are not very interesting for me. I prefer 'ard boyz trukks!
What you guys think? In the original post boyz are listed as yellow - average. I would list 'ard boyz in trukks as blue - very good at least.
I love em. Trouble is sometimes their ride gets shot out from under them and they have trouble doing anything except dying.
Eavy Armor boyz are quite a bit more durable but they are also points intensive for their killing power and the real issue with boyz these days is that they hit like a wet noodle in CC when furious charge is down. Also AP4 isn't rare so a good deal of shooting can just chew through their armor which makes them bleed points faster than normal boyz. Sometimes ard boyz will pay dividends with their armor while other times they die exactly the same as T-Shirt boyz and you left feeling like you would rather just have more boyz. Trukk boyz units in general are also mostly about getting the PK Nob in there to swing while the boyz are there to soak wounds so making the boyz more durable and more expensive doesn't do much to optimize the PK Nob killing things. Its not terrible but at 4 ppm the armor upgrade is almost the cost of a unarmored boy so it gets iffy to justify it over just another trukk full of boyz. That being said trukk boyz are probably the best candidate for upgrading to eavy armor as it seems very cost ineffective for foot sloggers or battlewagon boyz.
Vankraken wrote: Eavy Armor boyz are quite a bit more durable but they are also points intensive for their killing power and the real issue with boyz these days is that they hit like a wet noodle in CC when furious charge is down. Also AP4 isn't rare so a good deal of shooting can just chew through their armor which makes them bleed points faster than normal boyz. Sometimes ard boyz will pay dividends with their armor while other times they die exactly the same as T-Shirt boyz and you left feeling like you would rather just have more boyz. Trukk boyz units in general are also mostly about getting the PK Nob in there to swing while the boyz are there to soak wounds so making the boyz more durable and more expensive doesn't do much to optimize the PK Nob killing things. Its not terrible but at 4 ppm the armor upgrade is almost the cost of a unarmored boy so it gets iffy to justify it over just another trukk full of boyz. That being said trukk boyz are probably the best candidate for upgrading to eavy armor as it seems very cost ineffective for foot sloggers or battlewagon boyz.
About getting a PK nob in CC, I'm pretty sure 'ard boyz are better:
4 boyz trukks with PK nobz = 588 pts
3 'ard boyz trukks with PK nobz = 585 pts
This has a lot to do with surviving exploding trukks. An exploding t-shirt boyz trukk kills about 5-7 boyz (explosion wounds depending on if the nob gets a wound, fails either pinning or morale tests, mob rule). An exploding 'ard boyz trukk kills about 2-4 boyz.
Vankraken wrote: Eavy Armor boyz are quite a bit more durable but they are also points intensive for their killing power and the real issue with boyz these days is that they hit like a wet noodle in CC when furious charge is down. Also AP4 isn't rare so a good deal of shooting can just chew through their armor which makes them bleed points faster than normal boyz. Sometimes ard boyz will pay dividends with their armor while other times they die exactly the same as T-Shirt boyz and you left feeling like you would rather just have more boyz. Trukk boyz units in general are also mostly about getting the PK Nob in there to swing while the boyz are there to soak wounds so making the boyz more durable and more expensive doesn't do much to optimize the PK Nob killing things. Its not terrible but at 4 ppm the armor upgrade is almost the cost of a unarmored boy so it gets iffy to justify it over just another trukk full of boyz. That being said trukk boyz are probably the best candidate for upgrading to eavy armor as it seems very cost ineffective for foot sloggers or battlewagon boyz.
About getting a PK nob in CC, I'm pretty sure 'ard boyz are better:
4 boyz trukks with PK nobz = 588 pts
3 'ard boyz trukks with PK nobz = 585 pts
This has a lot to do with surviving exploding trukks. An exploding t-shirt boyz trukk kills about 5-7 boyz (explosion wounds depending on if the nob gets a wound, fails either pinning or morale tests, mob rule). An exploding 'ard boyz trukk kills about 2-4 boyz.
Very true but that is also one more trukk that the enemy has to shoot at which means one more trukk load of boyz possibly making into the enemy lines. Also to consider that even ard boyz that survive the explosion also have to survive getting shot at and a lot of that shooting can ignore their 4+ armor and it comes down to cover saves which is often a 5+ save. Against a lot of armies boyz stuck at the starting line because the trukk they where riding in died can mean they are doomed to do nothing as they try to slog across the battlefield. More trukks with more total number of boyz means more targets for the enemy to contend with which means the higher chance some trukks don't explode at all and can deliver their orky payload. Eavy armor or t shirts can really come down to what enemy your up against and the army composition your running. I didn't even mention things like having MANZ missiles and trukk tankbustas being higher priority targets which might mean those trukk boyz might not even get shot at or going up against melee armies that wouldn't even blow up the trukks but are looking to slug it out with the boyz themselves (possibly having armor ignoring weapons). I'm gonna go with there is no clear answer and no right or wrong way to use them but more stylistic and list specific preferences. I will say ard boyz are cheaper on the wallet, painting time, and its less models to transport or move during the game
Vankraken wrote: Eavy Armor boyz are quite a bit more durable but they are also points intensive for their killing power and the real issue with boyz these days is that they hit like a wet noodle in CC when furious charge is down. Also AP4 isn't rare so a good deal of shooting can just chew through their armor which makes them bleed points faster than normal boyz. Sometimes ard boyz will pay dividends with their armor while other times they die exactly the same as T-Shirt boyz and you left feeling like you would rather just have more boyz. Trukk boyz units in general are also mostly about getting the PK Nob in there to swing while the boyz are there to soak wounds so making the boyz more durable and more expensive doesn't do much to optimize the PK Nob killing things. Its not terrible but at 4 ppm the armor upgrade is almost the cost of a unarmored boy so it gets iffy to justify it over just another trukk full of boyz. That being said trukk boyz are probably the best candidate for upgrading to eavy armor as it seems very cost ineffective for foot sloggers or battlewagon boyz.
About getting a PK nob in CC, I'm pretty sure 'ard boyz are better:
4 boyz trukks with PK nobz = 588 pts
3 'ard boyz trukks with PK nobz = 585 pts
This has a lot to do with surviving exploding trukks. An exploding t-shirt boyz trukk kills about 5-7 boyz (explosion wounds depending on if the nob gets a wound, fails either pinning or morale tests, mob rule). An exploding 'ard boyz trukk kills about 2-4 boyz.
Very true but that is also one more trukk that the enemy has to shoot at which means one more trukk load of boyz possibly making into the enemy lines. Also to consider that even ard boyz that survive the explosion also have to survive getting shot at and a lot of that shooting can ignore their 4+ armor and it comes down to cover saves which is often a 5+ save. Against a lot of armies boyz stuck at the starting line because the trukk they where riding in died can mean they are doomed to do nothing as they try to slog across the battlefield. More trukks with more total number of boyz means more targets for the enemy to contend with which means the higher chance some trukks don't explode at all and can deliver their orky payload. Eavy armor or t shirts can really come down to what enemy your up against and the army composition your running. I didn't even mention things like having MANZ missiles and trukk tankbustas being higher priority targets which might mean those trukk boyz might not even get shot at or going up against melee armies that wouldn't even blow up the trukks but are looking to slug it out with the boyz themselves (possibly having armor ignoring weapons). I'm gonna go with there is no clear answer and no right or wrong way to use them but more stylistic and list specific preferences. I will say ard boyz are cheaper on the wallet, painting time, and its less models to transport or move during the game
Haha right!
I'll probably try a list with a sh!tload of MANz, 5-busta squads and t-shirt boyz in trukks. See how many can survive T1!
What about 'ard boyz in trukks? Personally, these 195 pts units (slugga boyz with 'eavy armor, PKBP nob) are almost mandatory in my lists. They are oftentimes the MVPs. The 'eavy armor mitigate the explodes results and keep them alive against small arms, in close combat and against mob rule. I try to put the trukks in cover on T1 and if they survive, I turbo-boost to the next cover. I use them a bit like MANz missiles except I try to avoid the explodes results (so I keep the trukk in cover when possible). They are more mobile than MANz, have Objective Secured, etc.
I play mostly against DE, Necrons, Skitarii and Space Marines (Imperial Fists and DA). They have a lot of S8+ AP2- so MANz are not very interesting for me. I prefer 'ard boyz trukks!
What you guys think? In the original post boyz are listed as yellow - average. I would list 'ard boyz in trukks as blue - very good at least.
they are the backbone of my army.
I always field my boyz with heavy armor they are surprisingly durable and the truck is super fast if it's not blow up in the first round.
What about 'ard boyz in trukks? Personally, these 195 pts units (slugga boyz with 'eavy armor, PKBP nob) are almost mandatory in my lists. They are oftentimes the MVPs. The 'eavy armor mitigate the explodes results and keep them alive against small arms, in close combat and against mob rule. I try to put the trukks in cover on T1 and if they survive, I turbo-boost to the next cover. I use them a bit like MANz missiles except I try to avoid the explodes results (so I keep the trukk in cover when possible). They are more mobile than MANz, have Objective Secured, etc.
I play mostly against DE, Necrons, Skitarii and Space Marines (Imperial Fists and DA). They have a lot of S8+ AP2- so MANz are not very interesting for me. I prefer 'ard boyz trukks!
What you guys think? In the original post boyz are listed as yellow - average. I would list 'ard boyz in trukks as blue - very good at least.
they are the backbone of my army.
I always field my boyz with heavy armor they are surprisingly durable and the truck is super fast if it's not blow up in the first round.
I play against a lot of daemon players in my meta - Fateweaver is almost an auto include in any daemons army. Also, I haven't played since Magnus's release, but that just adds to the AP4 psychic powers that evaporate orks. My current MSU orks list has a lot of great matchups against top-tier competitive lists. It's only 2 weaknesses I've seen are Fateweaver (and now Magnus) and Target Lock Tau. Adding heavy armor doesn't fix these weaknesses.
Hard boyz could work for you! I just don't see anyone I play with going: "Orks with a 4+?! I can't handle that."
6+ vs 4+ only helps if bolters were their answer. Yes - it'll help against Gladius, but that's the only competitive list I can think of that cares about a 4+ (and most of their RBs have Assault Cannons anyhow). I also don't think MANz boys are very helpful for the reasons Ashkayel mentioned. Competitive lists will have AP2 and quite possibly AP2 @ S8.
MSU is just too easy to do with the Orkurion. Might as well use it. My 2 cents.
What about 'ard boyz in trukks? Personally, these 195 pts units (slugga boyz with 'eavy armor, PKBP nob) are almost mandatory in my lists. They are oftentimes the MVPs. The 'eavy armor mitigate the explodes results and keep them alive against small arms, in close combat and against mob rule. I try to put the trukks in cover on T1 and if they survive, I turbo-boost to the next cover. I use them a bit like MANz missiles except I try to avoid the explodes results (so I keep the trukk in cover when possible). They are more mobile than MANz, have Objective Secured, etc.
I play mostly against DE, Necrons, Skitarii and Space Marines (Imperial Fists and DA). They have a lot of S8+ AP2- so MANz are not very interesting for me. I prefer 'ard boyz trukks!
What you guys think? In the original post boyz are listed as yellow - average. I would list 'ard boyz in trukks as blue - very good at least.
they are the backbone of my army.
I always field my boyz with heavy armor they are surprisingly durable and the truck is super fast if it's not blow up in the first round.
I play against a lot of daemon players in my meta - Fateweaver is almost an auto include in any daemons army. Also, I haven't played since Magnus's release, but that just adds to the AP4 psychic powers that evaporate orks. My current MSU orks list has a lot of great matchups against top-tier competitive lists. It's only 2 weaknesses I've seen are Fateweaver (and now Magnus) and Target Lock Tau. Adding heavy armor doesn't fix these weaknesses.
Hard boyz could work for you! I just don't see anyone I play with going: "Orks with a 4+?! I can't handle that."
6+ vs 4+ only helps if bolters were their answer. Yes - it'll help against Gladius, but that's the only competitive list I can think of that cares about a 4+ (and most of their RBs have Assault Cannons anyhow). I also don't think MANz boys are very helpful for the reasons Ashkayel mentioned. Competitive lists will have AP2 and quite possibly AP2 @ S8.
MSU is just too easy to do with the Orkurion. Might as well use it. My 2 cents.
ya it depends on the local meta. I don't have any daemon player within the friends i play with and we don't play a lot of competitive lists.
In general i like having my boyz with armor so: if the truck explode i don't lose half of them, i can save hits from mob rules and in general there aren't a lot of ap 4 or less weapons in the lists i play against.
But vs a list with a lot of ap 4 or less i can see how that heavy armor is just a waste and it's much better to have more naked orks.
what do you think of the orkurion and how do you play it? I never had the opportunity to try it.
what do you think of the orkurion and how do you play it? I never had the opportunity to try it.
It's not really competitive and must be taken in very big games as the orkurion itself is approx 1000 points and lacks every sort of firepower. Furthemore it only grants to waaagh every turn which is not really great. The Orkurion becomes nice if you also include the council of the waaagh so you can waaagh every turn but with ghazgkull's one. That means all the orks are fearless!!! Even gretchin (there's a runtherd) and mek gunz if you stick with them the mandatory mek of the formation. This is the real bonus of that formation, and also ghaz himself has his 2+ invuln all the game. However with the council we're talking about 1900 points so it can really be taken in a 2500 points game or the list terribly suffer the lack of shooting units whitout being particularly strong either. So in 2500 or higher games other choises are surely more competitive but the orkurion+council+some auxiliaries can be quite fun to play. My list at 2500 with these things is:
Orkurion:
Warboss in megarmor, mek, 6 squads of 10 boyz in trukks with pk nob, 3 meganobz in trukk with a killsaw, 10 gretchin
Council:
Ghaz, grotsnik, big mek with kff, warboss in megarmor, warboss in ea with big choppa, 3 nobz with waagh banner
Auxiliaries:
Battlewagon with a big shoot and ram (for the council)
Tre units of 5 tankbustas in trukks with 3 bomb squigs each
5 lobbas with 3-5 ammo runts, 2 single traktor kannons with ammo runts.
You should have approx 60 points spared to complete the list, you can drop bomb squigs if you dont' like them, equip with the pk also the warboss in eavy armor or swap the meganobz with cheaper nobz. I think is mandatory to take the council with basic upgrades, not spending many points on it, and the pks from ghaz, grotsnik and a warboss are enough imho as you also have 6 nobz with pk, another warboss and the meganobz.
Do you guys sometimes play unbound lists or you always play battleforged armies?
I've just played 2 small games (750 and 850 pts) against Imperial Fists and DE that ended before turn 3 (I stole the initiative on game 1, tho). Here's my MSU list:
Big mek with EA, Da Finkin Cap and rokkit launcha
2x 6 bikers (with nob BC/PK and BP)
5-6x lone kopta
0-2x lone skorcha buggy
4-5x lone kannon (2 extra crew, ammo runt)
2x 5 loota squad
I park my kannons and lootas in multiple ruins for 4+ cover (or 3+ if I got the warlord trait), I even infiltrated 3 kannons on the second game. I placed 3 grots in front of each kannon, and 1 behind. That's a pretty resilient 27 pts unit that can deliver the dakka! I put my big mek in one of the kannons.
That's a pretty shooty, mobile and resilient list! Too many low points targets. The only problem is it's unbound. What do you guys think?
It's not really competitive and must be taken in very big games as the orkurion itself is approx 1000 points and lacks every sort of firepower. Furthemore it only grants to waaagh every turn which is not really great. The Orkurion becomes nice if you also include the council of the waaagh so you can waaagh every turn but with ghazgkull's one. That means all the orks are fearless!!! Even gretchin (there's a runtherd) and mek gunz if you stick with them the mandatory mek of the formation. This is the real bonus of that formation, and also ghaz himself has his 2+ invuln all the game. However with the council we're talking about 1900 points so it can really be taken in a 2500 points game or the list terribly suffer the lack of shooting units whitout being particularly strong either. So in 2500 or higher games other choises are surely more competitive but the orkurion+council+some auxiliaries can be quite fun to play. My list at 2500 with these things is:
Orkurion:
Warboss in megarmor, mek, 6 squads of 10 boyz in trukks with pk nob, 3 meganobz in trukk with a killsaw, 10 gretchin
Council:
Ghaz, grotsnik, big mek with kff, warboss in megarmor, warboss in ea with big choppa, 3 nobz with waagh banner
Auxiliaries:
Battlewagon with a big shoot and ram (for the council)
Tre units of 5 tankbustas in trukks with 3 bomb squigs each
5 lobbas with 3-5 ammo runts, 2 single traktor kannons with ammo runts.
You should have approx 60 points spared to complete the list, you can drop bomb squigs if you dont' like them, equip with the pk also the warboss in eavy armor or swap the meganobz with cheaper nobz. I think is mandatory to take the council with basic upgrades, not spending many points on it, and the pks from ghaz, grotsnik and a warboss are enough imho as you also have 6 nobz with pk, another warboss and the meganobz.
I was tinkering with battlescribe to make a orkurion list but i couldn't make a list that i like with less than 2k points :\ and we usually play 1500 or 1850 points.
Ghaz seems an obligatory choice in particular with the modified mob rule, but the council cost a lot of points, if only gw made ghaz as a choice instead of a normal warboss in the waaagh band, that would have been really nice.
I was thinking about taking waagh ban and council of waagh without any upgrade apart from some pk, the meganobz instead of the nobz in the waagh band and a battlewagon for the waagh coucil and try and use the rest of the point to take bikers gunz and some support firepower. Use the boyz of the waagh band as "ork-shield" and try to run the enemy down.
No, I haven't. That's because the bonus that allows to waaagh every turn seems pretty useless to me and makes sense only if also grants a fearless army. The problem with the orkurion is the high number of non competitive units that are part of the formation, with 6 mandatory boyz squads you can only go with trukks as dedicated transports because if you go footslogging you'll need over 100 boyz and a greentide would be much better. But since your boyz have trukks the bonus to waaagh every turn is wasted. Without the council there's no way to use ghaz waaagh every turn so a CAD (or the orks codex detachment if you need 3 HQs) would be a better choise than the orkurion. Anyway the council is a huge points sink so it is crucial to take it with minimum upgrades. Ghaz, grotsnik and the nobz are stock (the banner is mandatory for the formation), the big mek without a KFF is a 35 points tax so i'd take one, and another megarmored warboss is enough, that's why i equip with a big choppa the second warboss. Also because otherwise i'd never use that wonderful model, a warboss without a pk is useless in any other possible kind of list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ashkayel wrote: Do you guys sometimes play unbound lists or you always play battleforged armies?
I've just played 2 small games (750 and 850 pts) against Imperial Fists and DE that ended before turn 3 (I stole the initiative on game 1, tho). Here's my MSU list:
Big mek with EA, Da Finkin Cap and rokkit launcha
2x 6 bikers (with nob BC/PK and BP)
5-6x lone kopta
0-2x lone skorcha buggy
4-5x lone kannon (2 extra crew, ammo runt)
2x 5 loota squad
I park my kannons and lootas in multiple ruins for 4+ cover (or 3+ if I got the warlord trait), I even infiltrated 3 kannons on the second game. I placed 3 grots in front of each kannon, and 1 behind. That's a pretty resilient 27 pts unit that can deliver the dakka! I put my big mek in one of the kannons.
That's a pretty shooty, mobile and resilient list! Too many low points targets. The only problem is it's unbound. What do you guys think?
If you run deffkoptas and kannons as single units, then bring just 2x5 bikes and drop a single kopta you would have the points to include 2 min units of gretchin, making the list legal.
Ashkayel wrote: Do you guys sometimes play unbound lists or you always play battleforged armies?
I've just played 2 small games (750 and 850 pts) against Imperial Fists and DE that ended before turn 3 (I stole the initiative on game 1, tho). Here's my MSU list:
Big mek with EA, Da Finkin Cap and rokkit launcha
2x 6 bikers (with nob BC/PK and BP)
5-6x lone kopta
0-2x lone skorcha buggy
4-5x lone kannon (2 extra crew, ammo runt)
2x 5 loota squad
I park my kannons and lootas in multiple ruins for 4+ cover (or 3+ if I got the warlord trait), I even infiltrated 3 kannons on the second game. I placed 3 grots in front of each kannon, and 1 behind. That's a pretty resilient 27 pts unit that can deliver the dakka! I put my big mek in one of the kannons.
That's a pretty shooty, mobile and resilient list! Too many low points targets. The only problem is it's unbound. What do you guys think?
If you run deffkoptas and kannons as single units, then bring just 2x5 bikes and drop a single kopta you would have the points to include 2 min units of gretchin, making the list legal.
Well the problem is that kills the whole concept of MSU. 5 koptas are bad together, unless joined by a HQ. Kannons would require at least a mek for Ld 7 .
So you guys never play unbound? My group has no problem with that (yet?) but I'd like to know what other people think.
Everyone in this thread seems to think that the flexibility you gain with Unbound isn't worth the loss of Objective Secured. Personally, I think they ought to try more often. Orks, especially, could probably do some really cool unbound lists, with really neat themes.
Besides the stigma of using Unbound, Objective Secured is pretty damn important for us. Since our Orkurion is effectively unusable in anything lower than 2000+ games, we don't really have much of a way to deal with other armies and their equivalents if we go unbound. Taking multiple CAD's just ends up being more prudent since grots are dirt cheap troop filler if needed and their low model profile makes them great for hiding in terrain near objectives. Obj. Sec makes it so that we have that edge over Decurion Necrons camping on objectives or be able to contest against Gladius marines. Most viable Ork lists can be done via CAD spamming so Unbound is kind of unnecessary.
Well the problem is that kills the whole concept of MSU. 5 koptas are bad together, unless joined by a HQ. Kannons would require at least a mek for Ld 7 .
So you guys never play unbound? My group has no problem with that (yet?) but I'd like to know what other people think.
You're right, MSU is the way to go with orks, but you can take a squadron of warbuggies instead of deffkoptas and kannons don't really need a mek as they are in the backfield and the bikes should pressure the opponent that in so small games probably doesn't have the units to deal with either the bikes and the kannnons. Also MSU works in standard games, at 1500 or 1850 many armies have a lot of fire power so deploying many expendable units increases their survivability, but in 850 or lower points games 3 fast attacks and 3 heavy supports are absolutely enough to play decent games.
I won't play unbound or against unbound lists because i like armies with weakness, it's a tactical game. Also i don't like armies full with the same units, many unbound players like only 2-3 units and go with a huge number of them. If you play lower points games like 750-850 an unbound list could be acceptable but in standard games i would refuse to play against. Also if you want 6 hqs (maybe 9), 6 elites, 6 heavy supports or fast attacks you just can take two CADs or some formation as the bullyboyz that allows you to bring three units of meganobz without wasting elite slots. With my armies, including the orks, i never had the temptation or the desire to play unbound.
slip wrote: MANz can also take battle wagons as a dedicated transport, further saving you heavy support slots.
its a damn shame that Battlewagons aren't good :(
Personally my list is usually either Warbike Heavy with Warboss on bike with DLS or I Take 3 Battlewagons with Rams/Rokkitz and fill them with Boyz with Nob/PK and just bum rush them up the field as quick as possibly while utilizing cover and then unload them and hope that enough of them get there to overwhelm my opponents gun line.
The best I have done was a tournament where I did a bit of both. 3 Battlewagonz crammed with Boyz and a Nob PK and 2 big blobs of Warbikers 1 with a Warboss DLSPK and Painboy and the other just nob PK. I got lucky on my first turn and got Nightfighting, My Bikes ran forward and shot the hell out of him, drew his entire return fire (they jinked with a 3+ jink save) lost very little and on my 2nd turn the battlewagonz filled with boyz arrived and unloaded their cargo, moved 6, unloaded 6, charged 2D6 with rerolls
The only army I had a hard time with was stupid SM with the Bolter drill army and some special surprises. Decimated my Bikers turn 1 (No Night Fighting or Jink) and came down to a single point at the end of the game.
BTW That tournament didn't have ANY Eldar so that would have greatly changed my record, and the Tau player was relatively new and didn't expect my Bikes and Wagonz to go so fast and unload so many bodies.
It's not really competitive and must be taken in very big games as the orkurion itself is approx 1000 points and lacks every sort of firepower. Furthemore it only grants to waaagh every turn which is not really great. The Orkurion becomes nice if you also include the council of the waaagh so you can waaagh every turn but with ghazgkull's one. That means all the orks are fearless!!! Even gretchin (there's a runtherd) and mek gunz if you stick with them the mandatory mek of the formation. This is the real bonus of that formation, and also ghaz himself has his 2+ invuln all the game. However with the council we're talking about 1900 points so it can really be taken in a 2500 points game or the list terribly suffer the lack of shooting units whitout being particularly strong either. So in 2500 or higher games other choises are surely more competitive but the orkurion+council+some auxiliaries can be quite fun to play. My list at 2500 with these things is:
Orkurion:
Warboss in megarmor, mek, 6 squads of 10 boyz in trukks with pk nob, 3 meganobz in trukk with a killsaw, 10 gretchin
Council:
Ghaz, grotsnik, big mek with kff, warboss in megarmor, warboss in ea with big choppa, 3 nobz with waagh banner
Auxiliaries:
Battlewagon with a big shoot and ram (for the council)
Tre units of 5 tankbustas in trukks with 3 bomb squigs each
5 lobbas with 3-5 ammo runts, 2 single traktor kannons with ammo runts.
You should have approx 60 points spared to complete the list, you can drop bomb squigs if you dont' like them, equip with the pk also the warboss in eavy armor or swap the meganobz with cheaper nobz. I think is mandatory to take the council with basic upgrades, not spending many points on it, and the pks from ghaz, grotsnik and a warboss are enough imho as you also have 6 nobz with pk, another warboss and the meganobz.
I was tinkering with battlescribe to make a orkurion list but i couldn't make a list that i like with less than 2k points :\ and we usually play 1500 or 1850 points.
Ghaz seems an obligatory choice in particular with the modified mob rule, but the council cost a lot of points, if only gw made ghaz as a choice instead of a normal warboss in the waaagh band, that would have been really nice.
I was thinking about taking waagh ban and council of waagh without any upgrade apart from some pk, the meganobz instead of the nobz in the waagh band and a battlewagon for the waagh coucil and try and use the rest of the point to take bikers gunz and some support firepower. Use the boyz of the waagh band as "ork-shield" and try to run the enemy down.
Have you tried to run an orkurion without ghaz?
No for the reasons stated by other people. My Coucil led Orcurion just won a decisive victory against Ann execellent Tau player last night. Finally got the list tweaked just right. Fearless Orks are just too valuable. One of the mobs at the end of the gamd was just a single grot and the runtherder. Still able to claim the opponents objectives and grant Linebreaker. Right next to them were two mobs of three Shootas each doing the exact same thing.
MAWB with my full unit of KMK's allowed them to maneuver every turn to make sure all five could fire. Mek attached to the Lobbas made that unit Fearless. Top of turn 3 three units of BS-boosted Fire Warriors shot the Council 99 times!! Extra shot due to an Etheral.
Between all the 2+ saves and FNP the Council only took five wounds and lost a single MAWBoss. After that the game was decided.
Last week on turn 5 my two deffkoptas captured an objective on bottom of the fifth which was the tie breaker!
It's a long slog across the board but that's why the Council is in a BW and the rest of the army is firing along the way.
So you never lost your warboss on bike? He always starts the game with the single kopta? I'm surprised they didn't kill him. Or do you always join a MANz squad after a few turns?
He's always joined a kopta. The squad's surprisingly hard to kill with 5 t6 wounds and a warboss's lukky stikk. Also, i've tried to not stick them out when it wasn't needed so it'd take the opponent to get overly exposed to manz counter-attack if they tried to kill the boss. I guess he's just not worth killing - read, not easy enough to kill - when there are 3 unit of meganobz nearby.
Has anyone tried to use the painmob effectively or ran this formation before? I'm thinking about using it for my main attack force and was wondering how well it worked.
Glitcha wrote: Has anyone tried to use the painmob effectively or ran this formation before? I'm thinking about using it for my main attack force and was wondering how well it worked.
Used it once with a nobz bikerstar, didn't get the chance to use the special rule as you must be already in CC at the beginning of your turn. Pretty situational IMO, but could work. The deff dread tax isn't really worth the special rule I guess. And nobz on foot or on bike aren't competitive either, so... But I might try it again sometime, we never know.
I can't help but think that GW made this formation to sell their endless supplies of deff dread and nobzÂ...
Glitcha wrote: Has anyone tried to use the painmob effectively or ran this formation before? I'm thinking about using it for my main attack force and was wondering how well it worked.
Used it once with a nobz bikerstar, didn't get the chance to use the special rule as you must be already in CC at the beginning of your turn. Pretty situational IMO, but could work. The deff dread tax isn't really worth the special rule I guess. And nobz on foot or on bike aren't competitive either, so... But I might try it again sometime, we never know.
I can't help but think that GW made this formation to sell their endless supplies of deff dread and nobzÂ...
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Maybe we'll luck out and dreads will suddenly become awesome in 8th. Unlikely, but one can hope.
Maybe we'll luck out and dreads will suddenly become awesome in 8th. Unlikely, but one can hope.
The main problem with Dreads (and vehicle walkers in general) is that they die to Grav too easily. If AV gets dropped and 40k goes to a wound chart like AoS, then Dreads are going to be quite good... quite good indeed.
Personally, I'd like to see everything that is infantry be able to take 'eavy armor. seem like our elite units are not so elite when they get wiped from the board with anything that has an AP value.
Mob rule... we have to spend so many points negating bad leadership and a 'random bad stuff' table that we don't get our really good stuff. Same thing for tyranids.
I must be the only one who actually likes the new mob rule. Taking one or two wounds to avoid being swept is so much better than LD = #. W!G's mob rule modifier on the other hand...
Hades wrote: I must be the only one who actually likes the new mob rule. Taking one or two wounds to avoid being swept is so much better than LD = #. W!G's mob rule modifier on the other hand...
Hades wrote: I must be the only one who actually likes the new mob rule. Taking one or two wounds to avoid being swept is so much better than LD = #. W!G's mob rule modifier on the other hand...
You are not the only one. I like it too.
The issue is not the codex mob rule, its the modified W!G mob rule renduring the book and its formations useless with out a terrible 600 + point HQ formation.
Hades wrote: I must be the only one who actually likes the new mob rule. Taking one or two wounds to avoid being swept is so much better than LD = #. W!G's mob rule modifier on the other hand...
I don't hate it, but I don't like it either. Why S4 hits if there's not even a nob in the squad? 4-6 results should be S3 hits. D3 hits would be nice too instead of D6.
1-2: D3 S4 hits (auto-pass if single model)
3-4: D3 S4 hits if a character is present (auto-pass if lone character), if not failed test
5-6: D3 S4 hits if at least 10 models, if not failed test
That way koptas could have a chance to stay in place...
There would be hundreds of ways to modify the mob rule...
I'd like it if every bit of non-specialist wargear could be given to Warbosses. Rokkits, Rokkit Paks, 'busta bombs, Burnas, etc. etc.
Or have Tankbusta and Burna special character leaders. That'd be neat. Imagine a Big Mek equivalent with a Skorcha, on foot, with Armourbane on his melee attacks. That'd be awesome.
My problem with mob rule is the out of combat occurrences. Specifically with Trukk boyz. Trukk blows up and you end up taking 2 mob rule rolls in quick succession. Suddenly, you don't even have a unit that can effectively camp an objective!
Anpu-adom wrote: My problem with mob rule is the out of combat occurrences. Specifically with Trukk boyz. Trukk blows up and you end up taking 2 mob rule rolls in quick succession. Suddenly, you don't even have a unit that can effectively camp an objective!
You're right, that's the reason why trukks only work in a huge number. Trukk boyz are not worty but if you have six of them they can harass the opponent, if you have just two and then other six full of tankbustas and the bullyboyz those boyz would certainly get into melee. Trukks are 35 points vehicles, they can be effective if you build a list full of expendable units. You'll certainly lose some of them, maybe all of them at a certain point, but having a lot of trukks means that something could have the chance to strike.
Orcurion won again last night, third week in a row. Maelstrom mission against Death Guard. T5 FNP on the whole army was tough. Opp had a Demon Prince, Nurgle Imperial Knight, Hell turkey, lots of Marines in Rhinos, Terminators, some cultists, Chaos Lords. Almost everything had Shrouded!
He ended up taking out all six boyz mobs and a few grots. I ended the game with about 3 times as many objectives. Fearless boyz won that game even though they all died.
This list is versatile and most importantly FUN! For a long time I thought the boyz were an unnecessary tax/burden but having them Fearless is completely worth it.
Ghaz' mob assaulted exactly once: the Imperial Knight destroyed Ghaz' BW in CC. Ghaz and Friends spread out to minimize Stomp damage and the Knight wiffs all four attacks!!! 16 Strength 10 attacks later (Grotsnik and my dual wielding MABM didn't even bother) and the Knight stumbles backwards towards some of his own marines. Opp called the game shortly after.
PipeAlley wrote: Orcurion won again last night, third week in a row. Maelstrom mission against Death Guard. T5 FNP on the whole army was tough. Opp had a Demon Prince, Nurgle Imperial Knight, Hell turkey, lots of Marines in Rhinos, Terminators, some cultists, Chaos Lords. Almost everything had Shrouded!
He ended up taking out all six boyz mobs and a few grots. I ended the game with about 3 times as many objectives. Fearless boyz won that game even though they all died.
This list is versatile and most importantly FUN! For a long time I thought the boyz were an unnecessary tax/burden but having them Fearless is completely worth it.
Ghaz' mob assaulted exactly once: the Imperial Knight destroyed Ghaz' BW in CC. Ghaz and Friends spread out to minimize Stomp damage and the Knight wiffs all four attacks!!! 16 Strength 10 attacks later (Grotsnik and my dual wielding MABM didn't even bother) and the Knight stumbles backwards towards some of his own marines. Opp called the game shortly after.
Nice! Another proppa krumpin for the boyz. Thanks for sharing! Did you run trukk boyz or just bare minimum MSU boyz?
I entered a local ITC rules tournament and I made a list with 0 boyz 0 trucks and 0 painboyz for the first time since I started orks (5 years now) and I had a relative easy win against deathguard decurion with 2 helldrakes and a shootaknight.
It was surpising.
Death Guard formation makes me wish that our core detachment gave FNP too..
thenewgozoku wrote: I entered a local ITC rules tournament and I made a list with 0 boyz 0 trucks and 0 painboyz for the first time since I started orks (5 years now) and I had a relative easy win against deathguard decurion with 2 helldrakes and a shootaknight.
It was surpising.
Death Guard formation makes me wish that our core detachment gave FNP too..
What did you have? gretchins, manz, tankbustas, bikes, battlewagons and mek gunz/lootas? i'm not a fan of boyz and trukks either.
3 bikerboss 1 big mek with bike and kff 2x 5 lootas
2x 5 tankbustas with squigs
2x grechins
2x 4 bikes with PK nob
Stompa (tankbustas in here)
6x single kopta with rokkits
thenewgozoku wrote: I entered a local ITC rules tournament and I made a list with 0 boyz 0 trucks and 0 painboyz for the first time since I started orks (5 years now) and I had a relative easy win against deathguard decurion with 2 helldrakes and a shootaknight.
It was surpising.
Death Guard formation makes me wish that our core detachment gave FNP too..
Neat, i've had my tourney with just 10 naked boyz in a trukk. They did surprisingly well by themselves. Just a throwaway unit from the first glance but they pulled their weight in every game. The only ones who could benefit from WAAAGH also!
PipeAlley wrote: Orcurion won again last night, third week in a row. Maelstrom mission against Death Guard. T5 FNP on the whole army was tough. Opp had a Demon Prince, Nurgle Imperial Knight, Hell turkey, lots of Marines in Rhinos, Terminators, some cultists, Chaos Lords. Almost everything had Shrouded!
He ended up taking out all six boyz mobs and a few grots. I ended the game with about 3 times as many objectives. Fearless boyz won that game even though they all died.
This list is versatile and most importantly FUN! For a long time I thought the boyz were an unnecessary tax/burden but having them Fearless is completely worth it.
Ghaz' mob assaulted exactly once: the Imperial Knight destroyed Ghaz' BW in CC. Ghaz and Friends spread out to minimize Stomp damage and the Knight wiffs all four attacks!!! 16 Strength 10 attacks later (Grotsnik and my dual wielding MABM didn't even bother) and the Knight stumbles backwards towards some of his own marines. Opp called the game shortly after.
Nice! Another proppa krumpin for the boyz. Thanks for sharing! Did you run trukk boyz or just bare minimum MSU boyz?
Six units of bare bones boyz. It started out as all Choppas but then two weeks ago I ditched a Deffkopta to give three mobs Shootas (which is how they're modeled anyways). The first week they all ran every turn and never fired a shot against Tau so the change actually worked against me, one less attack in CC. This week of course the Spikey Boys came towards me to the Shootas extra shot and range was very useful. Since they're Orks they are still useful in CC and 20 Shootas assaulted his Demon Prince and eventually killed him in CC needing 5's to hit and 6's to wound.
Has anyone tried Looting a Tau Tidewall, and sticking Lootaz on top to zip around and still shoot? I always bring an ADL for my lootaz anyways, and this piece is mobile.
We wouldn't benefit from the rerolls like Tau, or get a 2+ GTG like an ADL, but I can see a wall of lootaz turn one blocking Trukks, and then shifting forward an interesting concept.
Has anyone tried this? Are the Tau forts allowed by non tau? I don't see any specific restriction.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Has anyone tried Looting a Tau Tidewall, and sticking Lootaz on top to zip around and still shoot? I always bring an ADL for my lootaz anyways, and this piece is mobile.
We wouldn't benefit from the rerolls like Tau, or get a 2+ GTG like an ADL, but I can see a wall of lootaz turn one blocking Trukks, and then shifting forward an interesting concept.
Has anyone tried this? Are the Tau forts allowed by non tau? I don't see any specific restriction.
You can loot one if you want, but the rules for the Tau Tidewall are specifically for Tau faction. Sorry.
Had an interesting game against the new CSM codex. He brought Khorne Bikers, Berserkers, a Daemon Prince and some other shenanigans.
I finally finished painting all of my Stormboyz so i brought them along. I won after the 4th turn where he conceded because he only had 2 squads of Missile Launchers left.
Heres my List: Double CAD:
1st CAD:
HQ:
Warboss W/Eavy Armor, PK, Da Finkin Cap
Painboy
TROOPS:
10 Boyz w/Nob PK In a Trukk
10 Boyz w/Nob PK In a Trukk
FAST ATTACK:
6 Warbikers W/Nob PK 3 Warbikers W/Nob PK
This list did surprisingly well against my opponent, even though I misjudged certain aspects of the new CSM lists.
Turn 1 he rushed forward and shot me a bit, I shot back (Killed 1 biker...thats it) And I assaulted a lot of his units and pushed him back, his Renegade Knight made a bit of a mess out of me but I finally killed it turn 3 with 1 squad of boyz, 1 squad of Stormboyz and the remnants of my Biker Warboss's squad. The resulting explosion killed a fair bit of the board
Yes the bursta is great but I can't resist the belly gun with its 3d6 inch radius. There will be plenty of D on both sides and I am bringing karnage skwadron with 6 jets to bring down titans and such.
Does anyone else play "Krush Da Kan" where you surround an enemy transport with boys and wreck it in close combat leaving no escape route for enemies inside? It's one of my personal favorite ways to shock opponents and make my boys oay for themselves.
Surprisingly, I've noticed that it catches a lot of people off guard to see a tank filled to the gills with dudes get surrounded and then just imploded.
The fun of it has even gotten me to smile and chant 'crush da can!' while moving my boyz to surround.
Transports are hit in the rear armor and most are AV10 in that spot and boys have enough attacks between them that they can easily knock off most, if not all, hullpoints on transports, leaving klaw nobs to mop up. Its more accurate than shooting them, and unless you're going up against av11 rear transports, tank bustas in CC aren't that useful.
Plus! If you completely surround the tsnk and d ail to kill it, they're stuck there and can't disembark unless they kill some of your orks! They can't even tank shock you because they need a minimum of 6 inches movement before they can declare one!
What do you guys think? Does anyone else do this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only downside i have personally experienced is when using Klaws and accidentally exploding the transport, killing a bunch of my boyz and freeing the guys in the transport to not die. But that's the worst case scenario lol.
Voidraven,
I've done that with Necron Scarabs back in 6th when they always wrecked things and never could explode anything. Not fair against a new player, but definitely fair game against an old salt.
Voidraven5829 wrote: Does anyone else play "Krush Da Kan" where you surround an enemy transport with boys and wreck it in close combat leaving no escape route for enemies inside? It's one of my personal favorite ways to shock opponents and make my boys oay for themselves.
Surprisingly, I've noticed that it catches a lot of people off guard to see a tank filled to the gills with dudes get surrounded and then just imploded.
The fun of it has even gotten me to smile and chant 'crush da can!' while moving my boyz to surround.
Transports are hit in the rear armor and most are AV10 in that spot and boys have enough attacks between them that they can easily knock off most, if not all, hullpoints on transports, leaving klaw nobs to mop up. Its more accurate than shooting them, and unless you're going up against av11 rear transports, tank bustas in CC aren't that useful.
Plus! If you completely surround the tsnk and d ail to kill it, they're stuck there and can't disembark unless they kill some of your orks! They can't even tank shock you because they need a minimum of 6 inches movement before they can declare one!
What do you guys think? Does anyone else do this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only downside i have personally experienced is when using Klaws and accidentally exploding the transport, killing a bunch of my boyz and freeing the guys in the transport to not die. But that's the worst case scenario lol.
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it. If it explodes there is room for them to stand normally.
Still they would be facing a ring of orks, but it's hard to remove them from play. I guess it depends on how full it is.
Voidraven5829 wrote: Does anyone else play "Krush Da Kan" where you surround an enemy transport with boys and wreck it in close combat leaving no escape route for enemies inside? It's one of my personal favorite ways to shock opponents and make my boys oay for themselves.
Surprisingly, I've noticed that it catches a lot of people off guard to see a tank filled to the gills with dudes get surrounded and then just imploded.
The fun of it has even gotten me to smile and chant 'crush da can!' while moving my boyz to surround.
Transports are hit in the rear armor and most are AV10 in that spot and boys have enough attacks between them that they can easily knock off most, if not all, hullpoints on transports, leaving klaw nobs to mop up. Its more accurate than shooting them, and unless you're going up against av11 rear transports, tank bustas in CC aren't that useful.
Plus! If you completely surround the tsnk and d ail to kill it, they're stuck there and can't disembark unless they kill some of your orks! They can't even tank shock you because they need a minimum of 6 inches movement before they can declare one!
What do you guys think? Does anyone else do this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only downside i have personally experienced is when using Klaws and accidentally exploding the transport, killing a bunch of my boyz and freeing the guys in the transport to not die. But that's the worst case scenario lol.
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it. If it explodes there is room for them to stand normally.
Still they would be facing a ring of orks, but it's hard to remove them from play. I guess it depends on how full it is.
That isn't how I've ever played it. Local variations, I guess.
Voidraven5829 wrote: Does anyone else play "Krush Da Kan" where you surround an enemy transport with boys and wreck it in close combat leaving no escape route for enemies inside? It's one of my personal favorite ways to shock opponents and make my boys oay for themselves.
Surprisingly, I've noticed that it catches a lot of people off guard to see a tank filled to the gills with dudes get surrounded and then just imploded.
The fun of it has even gotten me to smile and chant 'crush da can!' while moving my boyz to surround.
Transports are hit in the rear armor and most are AV10 in that spot and boys have enough attacks between them that they can easily knock off most, if not all, hullpoints on transports, leaving klaw nobs to mop up. Its more accurate than shooting them, and unless you're going up against av11 rear transports, tank bustas in CC aren't that useful.
Plus! If you completely surround the tsnk and d ail to kill it, they're stuck there and can't disembark unless they kill some of your orks! They can't even tank shock you because they need a minimum of 6 inches movement before they can declare one!
What do you guys think? Does anyone else do this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only downside i have personally experienced is when using Klaws and accidentally exploding the transport, killing a bunch of my boyz and freeing the guys in the transport to not die. But that's the worst case scenario lol.
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it. If it explodes there is room for them to stand normally.
Still they would be facing a ring of orks, but it's hard to remove them from play. I guess it depends on how full it is.
That isn't how I've ever played it. Local variations, I guess.
That's hpw I've always played it, because you first have to emergency disembark from the wrecked vehicle which puts you at max, 3 inches away from any actual door on the transport without going through enemy models or ending within 1 inch of enemies.
So since the orks surround the transport, there's no where they can go from outside the transport sovthey get crushed!
Voidraven5829 wrote: Does anyone else play "Krush Da Kan" where you surround an enemy transport with boys and wreck it in close combat leaving no escape route for enemies inside? It's one of my personal favorite ways to shock opponents and make my boys oay for themselves.
Surprisingly, I've noticed that it catches a lot of people off guard to see a tank filled to the gills with dudes get surrounded and then just imploded.
The fun of it has even gotten me to smile and chant 'crush da can!' while moving my boyz to surround.
Transports are hit in the rear armor and most are AV10 in that spot and boys have enough attacks between them that they can easily knock off most, if not all, hullpoints on transports, leaving klaw nobs to mop up. Its more accurate than shooting them, and unless you're going up against av11 rear transports, tank bustas in CC aren't that useful.
Plus! If you completely surround the tsnk and d ail to kill it, they're stuck there and can't disembark unless they kill some of your orks! They can't even tank shock you because they need a minimum of 6 inches movement before they can declare one!
What do you guys think? Does anyone else do this?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only downside i have personally experienced is when using Klaws and accidentally exploding the transport, killing a bunch of my boyz and freeing the guys in the transport to not die. But that's the worst case scenario lol.
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it. If it explodes there is room for them to stand normally.
Still they would be facing a ring of orks, but it's hard to remove them from play. I guess it depends on how full it is.
That isn't how I've ever played it. Local variations, I guess.
That's hpw I've always played it, because you first have to emergency disembark from the wrecked vehicle which puts you at max, 3 inches away from any actual door on the transport without going through enemy models or ending within 1 inch of enemies.
So since the orks surround the transport, there's no where they can go from outside the transport sovthey get crushed!
This was easier to do in 5th edition and earlier. One of the main drawbacks when I run MANz in my GorkaMorka Trukks. Worth the risk though.
JimOnMars wrote: [
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it
They can't. They have to disembark first. And than the vehicle gets wrecked. Can't stand on top of another model.
I think you are right. The last sentence of the "wrecked" result on p.82 says "After this [disembarkation], the vehicle becomes a wreck." So it's still a vehicle during the disembarkation. Works for me!
JimOnMars wrote: [
It's hard to make it work because the wrecked vehicle becomes scenery and the occupants can just pile on top of it
They can't. They have to disembark first. And than the vehicle gets wrecked. Can't stand on top of another model.
I think you are right. The last sentence of the "wrecked" result on p.82 says "After this [disembarkation], the vehicle becomes a wreck." So it's still a vehicle during the disembarkation. Works for me!
Yep it works IMO. Tried that with trukk boyz surrounding a venom with 5 kaballites inside. 11 boyz and a PK could not even wreck the damn thing (A10 open-topped, 5++ save)... What a shame...
Jancoran wrote: The Orks will be represented at the Elvensword Ambassadorial GT. Lists and rules are here if you'd like to follow the Ambassadors progress!
Jancoran wrote: The Orks will be represented at the Elvensword Ambassadorial GT. Lists and rules are here if you'd like to follow the Ambassadors progress!
Hmm, can't say I really like the 2 ork lists... Good luck anyway!
Special tournament rules. gotta read those. Also gotta read the missions.
If you take a third detachment, it must be a CAD. In addition, the mission objectives on the "Secure the Escape Tarmac" and other little elements force you to do a little but of list noodling.
Anywho, wouldnt it be something if the Orks took the gold?
Jancoran wrote: The Orks will be represented at the Elvensword Ambassadorial GT. Lists and rules are here if you'd like to follow the Ambassadors progress!
Hmm, can't say I really like the 2 ork lists... Good luck anyway!
Special tournament rules. gotta read those. Also gotta read the missions.
If you take a third detachment, it must be a CAD. In addition, the mission objectives on the "Secure the Escape Tarmac" and other little elements force you to do a little but of list noodling.
Anywho, wouldnt it be something if the Orks took the gold?
I did read the rules but I admit I didn't look at the missions.
I'm just not a big fan of trukks without rams or koptas in sqwadrons without HQ. Footslogging tankbustas can be nice in a heavy ruined battlefield if you roll infiltrate and/or stealth in ruins (which he might with DFK). But as I said, I didn't read the missions special rules so my opinion isn't really worth much (I probably should've just encourage them, instead).
Played a game last night and we were play some fun stuff. I brought zhadsnark in the 3rd edition cult of speed rules from Codex: Armegeddon. I, also, took a Mad doc from WD from 1996. Things got really interesting when the Mad Doc rolled up Extra Armor bits for him and his unit. Suddenly my biker unit of war bikers, big mek on bike, pain boy on bike and Zhadsnark became toughness 6 and toughness 7! for Zhadsnark.
My opponent was a good sport and we had a good game. Orks won turn 2, 10-1. The only thing left on the table was 2 units of chaos marines.
Hi guys. Couldn't find this via search. What's the cheapest way to put a MFF on the field? I want to run a dread mob, so feel like the MFF would be a worthwhile investment?
Wopbopadobop wrote: Hi guys. Couldn't find this via search. What's the cheapest way to put a MFF on the field? I want to run a dread mob, so feel like the MFF would be a worthwhile investment?
Wopbopadobop wrote: Hi guys. Couldn't find this via search. What's the cheapest way to put a MFF on the field? I want to run a dread mob, so feel like the MFF would be a worthwhile investment?
Cheapest way is a big mek
What I mean is, what detatchment, I'm assuming I can't just take the gubbins in a normal CAD?
Assuming you mean the FW dread mob the cheapest is the great waaagh detachment. If you mean the gw dread mob then the big mek inside that formation can take it.
cranect wrote: Assuming you mean the FW dread mob the cheapest is the great waaagh detachment. If you mean the gw dread mob then the big mek inside that formation can take it.
I'm assuming the FW list is still valid (looks better because the 35point killa kans?)
cranect wrote: Assuming you mean the FW dread mob the cheapest is the great waaagh detachment. If you mean the gw dread mob then the big mek inside that formation can take it.
I'm assuming the FW list is still valid (looks better because the 35point killa kans?)
And they're Fast Attack slot! And Dreads are Troops! No Weedy Grots 'we is gonna run away even though we're vehicles' special rule, either. Remember you have to pay for the upgrades on the Kans, so they can still get back up closer to 50pts depending on the weapon arm (I never pay for extra armour or grot riggers on such a weak 2HP frame).
Yes, as far as I know the FW list is valid, though it has some issues. Strict RAW your Spanna Boyz don't have the 'ere we go special rule, so no rerolling runs/charges, and absolutely no Waaagh! benefit, if you can even get it (likely from a different Detachment). The aforementioned Killa Kan discrepancies also apply. Also, are we sure a Dreadmob Big Mek can take W!G relics?
Otherwise, I really like the list. The Warkoptas are awful and overcosted; same with the grot tanks, but I love them anyway because they are super unique and no one expects them. Flat out 30" and they can jink?! lol
cranect wrote: Assuming you mean the FW dread mob the cheapest is the great waaagh detachment. If you mean the gw dread mob then the big mek inside that formation can take it.
I'm assuming the FW list is still valid (looks better because the 35point killa kans?)
And they're Fast Attack slot! And Dreads are Troops! No Weedy Grots 'we is gonna run away even though we're vehicles' special rule, either. Remember you have to pay for the upgrades on the Kans, so they can still get back up closer to 50pts depending on the weapon arm (I never pay for extra armour or grot riggers on such a weak 2HP frame).
Yes, as far as I know the FW list is valid, though it has some issues. Strict RAW your Spanna Boyz don't have the 'ere we go special rule, so no rerolling runs/charges, and absolutely no Waaagh! benefit, if you can even get it (likely from a different Detachment). The aforementioned Killa Kan discrepancies also apply. Also, are we sure a Dreadmob Big Mek can take W!G relics?
Otherwise, I really like the list. The Warkoptas are awful and overcosted; same with the grot tanks, but I love them anyway because they are super unique and no one expects them. Flat out 30" and they can jink?! lol
I've fixed these issues by taking the minimum painboss and 10 spanner boyz. Everything else is from W!G I'm taking a big mek with MFF and MA Warboss with DLS in the unit of spanner boyz as 10 ablative wounds for looking out AP2 onto. Put the painboss and MFFMek into a unit of regular boyz and walk them up behind the Kan/Dread wall to provide the 4+ Bubble.
PipeAlley wrote: Orcurion won again last night, third week in a row. Maelstrom mission against Death Guard. T5 FNP on the whole army was tough. Opp had a Demon Prince, Nurgle Imperial Knight, Hell turkey, lots of Marines in Rhinos, Terminators, some cultists, Chaos Lords. Almost everything had Shrouded!
He ended up taking out all six boyz mobs and a few grots. I ended the game with about 3 times as many objectives. Fearless boyz won that game even though they all died.
This list is versatile and most importantly FUN! For a long time I thought the boyz were an unnecessary tax/burden but having them Fearless is completely worth it.
Ghaz' mob assaulted exactly once: the Imperial Knight destroyed Ghaz' BW in CC. Ghaz and Friends spread out to minimize Stomp damage and the Knight wiffs all four attacks!!! 16 Strength 10 attacks later (Grotsnik and my dual wielding MABM didn't even bother) and the Knight stumbles backwards towards some of his own marines. Opp called the game shortly after.
Nice! Another proppa krumpin for the boyz. Thanks for sharing! Did you run trukk boyz or just bare minimum MSU boyz?
Six units of bare bones boyz. It started out as all Choppas but then two weeks ago I ditched a Deffkopta to give three mobs Shootas (which is how they're modeled anyways). The first week they all ran every turn and never fired a shot against Tau so the change actually worked against me, one less attack in CC. This week of course the Spikey Boys came towards me to the Shootas extra shot and range was very useful. Since they're Orks they are still useful in CC and 20 Shootas assaulted his Demon Prince and eventually killed him in CC needing 5's to hit and 6's to wound.
What units would you drop if you change the list to 1850?
PipeAlley wrote: Orcurion won again last night, third week in a row. Maelstrom mission against Death Guard. T5 FNP on the whole army was tough. Opp had a Demon Prince, Nurgle Imperial Knight, Hell turkey, lots of Marines in Rhinos, Terminators, some cultists, Chaos Lords. Almost everything had Shrouded!
He ended up taking out all six boyz mobs and a few grots. I ended the game with about 3 times as many objectives. Fearless boyz won that game even though they all died.
This list is versatile and most importantly FUN! For a long time I thought the boyz were an unnecessary tax/burden but having them Fearless is completely worth it.
Ghaz' mob assaulted exactly once: the Imperial Knight destroyed Ghaz' BW in CC. Ghaz and Friends spread out to minimize Stomp damage and the Knight wiffs all four attacks!!! 16 Strength 10 attacks later (Grotsnik and my dual wielding MABM didn't even bother) and the Knight stumbles backwards towards some of his own marines. Opp called the game shortly after.
Nice! Another proppa krumpin for the boyz. Thanks for sharing! Did you run trukk boyz or just bare minimum MSU boyz?
Six units of bare bones boyz. It started out as all Choppas but then two weeks ago I ditched a Deffkopta to give three mobs Shootas (which is how they're modeled anyways). The first week they all ran every turn and never fired a shot against Tau so the change actually worked against me, one less attack in CC. This week of course the Spikey Boys came towards me to the Shootas extra shot and range was very useful. Since they're Orks they are still useful in CC and 20 Shootas assaulted his Demon Prince and eventually killed him in CC needing 5's to hit and 6's to wound.
What units would you drop if you change the list to 1850?
I'd rather talk about which units I'd add to get to 2500
First thing would be drop both Deffkoptas. They're fun and have won me games but they're the most disposable. Then I'd take off the MegaArmor and Killsaw from the GhazStar BigMek. He's there for extra vehicle destruction. I'd convert the Shootas back to sluggas, Shootas are fun but most cases I'm running them up the board. Finally I'd ditch four extra grots from the Lobba unit for a total of 1848. Or you could ditch the Eavy Armor on Ghaz Nobz. Same diff of 12 points.
Things I'd never touch are the Killsaws on the MANz in RR Trukk. The extra attack AND 2D6AP are too good.
Never touch Ghaz' Warbosses' MegaArmor. Too point efficient for more Str 10 and absorbing non AP 2 shots.
Also keep MAWB with KMK's, being able to move and shoot allows them all to fire every turn. Now that the FAQ clarifies using ammo runts for Gets Hot increases survivabilty. I've had multiple games where the same damn KMK gets hot AND fails armor save!!!
My main tactic since beginning of 6th is to multi assault as many non-Fearless, non ATSKNF units with at least one vehicle unit. Pile on as many Pens on the vehicle as possible, each counting as 2 wounds during Combat Resolution. A vehicle with 3 HP and 10 pens will still count as -20 for some reason. Works great against Demons BTW.
Just played a 2v2 4000 point per side game last Thursday. My Orcurion with Eldar Bikes versus the New Chaos Tzeench and Nurgle Marines. They were summoning up to 5 units per turn but mostly Plaguebearers and Drones, with the occasional bloodletters. Nurgle can't run so Lobbas we're wiping them out in one go!
Highlight of the game: 10 Sluggas charged Three Plague Drones, got hammer of wrath, and wiped the T5 Drones while losing only two Sluggas!!!
Also Ghaz rolled for his unit to Outflank (and BS of 3 again?!?) and when we came on the near the opponents edge it was game over. Orks and Eldar are a powerful Combo, won easily because of Maelstrom Objectives. Otherwise the opponents were generating 27 and 9 warp charges per turn.
Also keep MAWB with KMK's, being able to move and shoot allows them all to fire every turn. Now that the FAQ clarifies using ammo runts for Gets Hot increases survivabilty. I've had multiple games where the same damn KMK gets hot AND fails armor save!!!
Never been a fan of megarmors with lootas or mek gunz. A megarmored warboss costs as much a 3 other KMKs with 3 ammo runts. I'd add more mek gunz if i had the point, not a warboss in order to move and shoot. And a warboss in megarmor is also a good fighter, completely wasted if joins some mek gunz. I'd rather not shoot for a turn with KMKs than wasting 4-5 s10 ap2 attacks. You may need to move your mek gunz once a game, sometimes you don't need it at all. In a ghazcurion the only unit that is really scary in close combat is the council, maybe a manz missile if you go with meganobz and not regular nobz, so adding the warband warboss to a unit of boyz seems a good idea to me.
Also keep MAWB with KMK's, being able to move and shoot allows them all to fire every turn. Now that the FAQ clarifies using ammo runts for Gets Hot increases survivabilty. I've had multiple games where the same damn KMK gets hot AND fails armor save!!!
Never been a fan of megarmors with lootas or mek gunz. A megarmored warboss costs as much a 3 other KMKs with 3 ammo runts. I'd add more mek gunz if i had the point, not a warboss in order to move and shoot. And a warboss in megarmor is also a good fighter, completely wasted if joins some mek gunz. I'd rather not shoot for a turn with KMKs than wasting 4-5 s10 ap2 attacks. You may need to move your mek gunz once a game, sometimes you don't need it at all. In a ghazcurion the only unit that is really scary in close combat is the council, maybe a manz missile if you go with meganobz and not regular nobz, so adding the warband warboss to a unit of boyz seems a good idea to me.
You make excellent points. The only thing I'd say to that is: we only play Maelstrom Missions and both my Lobbas (looted IG Mortars) and KMK's deploy and hold objectives the entire game. The MAWB attached to the KMK's can detach and join my held-back MANZ missile or the one unit of Shootas I keep back to hold that third objective. Essentially he's a reactive deployment zone deterant. I'd not throw him with boyz moving up the field since there are only 10 T4 models. Also he adds a Ere We Go model for Fearless, just as my Mek does for my Lobbas.
I only move up Grots, five units of boyz and Ghaz in BW. Everything else defends the DZ.
Also keep MAWB with KMK's, being able to move and shoot allows them all to fire every turn. Now that the FAQ clarifies using ammo runts for Gets Hot increases survivabilty. I've had multiple games where the same damn KMK gets hot AND fails armor save!!!
Never been a fan of megarmors with lootas or mek gunz. A megarmored warboss costs as much a 3 other KMKs with 3 ammo runts. I'd add more mek gunz if i had the point, not a warboss in order to move and shoot. And a warboss in megarmor is also a good fighter, completely wasted if joins some mek gunz. I'd rather not shoot for a turn with KMKs than wasting 4-5 s10 ap2 attacks. You may need to move your mek gunz once a game, sometimes you don't need it at all. In a ghazcurion the only unit that is really scary in close combat is the council, maybe a manz missile if you go with meganobz and not regular nobz, so adding the warband warboss to a unit of boyz seems a good idea to me.
You make excellent points. The only thing I'd say to that is: we only play Maelstrom Missions and both my Lobbas (looted IG Mortars) and KMK's deploy and hold objectives the entire game. The MAWB attached to the KMK's can detach and join my held-back MANZ missile or the one unit of Shootas I keep back to hold that third objective. Essentially he's a reactive deployment zone deterant. I'd not throw him with boyz moving up the field since there are only 10 T4 models. Also he adds a Ere We Go model for Fearless, just as my Mek does for my Lobbas.
I only move up Grots, five units of boyz and Ghaz in BW. Everything else defends the DZ.
Fair enough. I don't use the ghazcurion very often as i don't usually play with more than 1850 points, so i don't have much experience with it. When i played it i only left 5 lobbas + mek, two single traktor kannons and grots in my DP, everything else was in trukks or BWs moving towards the enemy. I typically play very aggressive and defend my DP only in turn 1 with my deployment, then i rush everything towards the enemy lines, forcing the reserves controlled by the opponent to deal with fast units rather than come closer to the mek gunz, which usually don't get assaulted before turn 3. Basically i use grots to protect mek gunz, they are harmless but they mess enemy units movements and force them to assault that 35 points unit to come closer to the lobbas. Nothing special but they can slow down an assault unit for a turn. Other than the full unit of lobbas i only use 30-35 points units like grots, single mek gunz or deffkoptas to act in my DP.
Well LVO (Las Vegas Open) was this past weekend and I had some time to sit down and catch couple of the games. One of the games was Orks vs admech. Ork player was running a really punchy list. From what I gather from the video his list was:
Zhadsnark
Big mek in mega armor
2 units of grots
1 unit of bikes
2 full units of mek gun (KMK)
Big mek stompa (buzzgob) or Kustom stompa?
Void shield generator
First, congrats to this guy. He managed to pull of a win. Second personally i'm not sold on his list. There is an issue with Zhadsnark and Mek gunz. Accord to Zhadsnark's rules, you can not have deff dread, kill kans, or big guns in your army. This rule was never updated when the new codex came out and big guns were renamed to Mek gunz. Personally, I've gone with that a Mek gun and big guns are the same unit. I'm sure the lists had to go through some approval process before hand, but it just seems like a gray area that could be argued.
Third, strategy. Since Objective secured is so huge for tournament play and the taking/ hold kind of objective play. This crafty git put a unit of grots in his stompa. Now you might be thinking why do that? Well now you got an Objective secured stompa running around on the table. It becomes a great objective holder.
I'm not sure if objective secured works when inside a transport. Cause the unit is not on board. At least the auras don't work that way unless specified.
And yep, the guy utilised a stompa with a misprinted point cost and 'non-big gunz'.
koooaei wrote: I'm not sure if objective secured works when inside a transport. Cause the unit is not on board. At least the auras don't work that way unless specified.
And yep, the guy utilised a stompa with a misprinted point cost 'non-big gunz'.
Good point. Worth doing some research to see. I'll admit I've utilized the stompa with the misprinted point cost a couple of times. That load out is not my favorite. So I usually us the Kustom Stompa.
ObSec in a transport works. It's in the 7th ed BRB somewhere. If ITC allows the discounted Stompa, as an ork player, you might as well use it.
As for the Big Guns vs Mek Guns argument, it's pretty straight forward as for RAI - the Ork artillery got a name change but are still the same unit. But RAW - they banned Big Guns in Zhad's army. They aren't the same name so the list is legal for tournament purposes. That being said, I could see it being ruled either way.
I mean let's be honest, if you are complaining about Zhadsnark and Mek Guns being in a list together and not Eldar/Riptide Wing, you have your priorities backwards. Hahahahha.
Glitcha wrote: Well LVO (Las Vegas Open) was this past weekend and I had some time to sit down and catch couple of the games. One of the games was Orks vs admech. Ork player was running a really punchy list. From what I gather from the video his list was:
Zhadsnark
Big mek in mega armor
2 units of grots
1 unit of bikes
2 full units of mek gun (KMK)
Big mek stompa (buzzgob) or Kustom stompa?
Void shield generator
First, congrats to this guy. He managed to pull of a win. Second personally i'm not sold on his list. There is an issue with Zhadsnark and Mek gunz. Accord to Zhadsnark's rules, you can not have deff dread, kill kans, or big guns in your army. This rule was never updated when the new codex came out and big guns were renamed to Mek gunz. Personally, I've gone with that a Mek gun and big guns are the same unit. I'm sure the lists had to go through some approval process before hand, but it just seems like a gray area that could be argued.
Third, strategy. Since Objective secured is so huge for tournament play and the taking/ hold kind of objective play. This crafty git put a unit of grots in his stompa. Now you might be thinking why do that? Well now you got an Objective secured stompa running around on the table. It becomes a great objective holder.
As per that game... Ob-sec only matters if your opponent isn't on the panic back-foot all game long as they were here.
The Buzzgob Stompa and Bikes had that entire army retreating all game long, so they easily won primary and secondary objectives. It was a very impressive list thanks to the ITC essentially making that awesome Stompa 300-400pts cheaper than it should be. :-p
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW... out of curiosity, has anyone math-hammered who is better off leading a Bike unit? Zhadsnark get's 2+ Jink (right? Skilled Rider + the boost from Turbo Boosting), but a Warboss with Da Lucky Stick has a 3+, and the re-roll shenanigans, plus is still cheaper.
Glitcha wrote: Well LVO (Las Vegas Open) was this past weekend and I had some time to sit down and catch couple of the games. One of the games was Orks vs admech. Ork player was running a really punchy list. From what I gather from the video his list was:
Zhadsnark
Big mek in mega armor
2 units of grots
1 unit of bikes
2 full units of mek gun (KMK)
Big mek stompa (buzzgob) or Kustom stompa?
Void shield generator
First, congrats to this guy. He managed to pull of a win. Second personally i'm not sold on his list. There is an issue with Zhadsnark and Mek gunz. Accord to Zhadsnark's rules, you can not have deff dread, kill kans, or big guns in your army. This rule was never updated when the new codex came out and big guns were renamed to Mek gunz. Personally, I've gone with that a Mek gun and big guns are the same unit. I'm sure the lists had to go through some approval process before hand, but it just seems like a gray area that could be argued.
Third, strategy. Since Objective secured is so huge for tournament play and the taking/ hold kind of objective play. This crafty git put a unit of grots in his stompa. Now you might be thinking why do that? Well now you got an Objective secured stompa running around on the table. It becomes a great objective holder.
As per that game... Ob-sec only matters if your opponent isn't on the panic back-foot all game long as they were here.
The Buzzgob Stompa and Bikes had that entire army retreating all game long, so they easily won primary and secondary objectives. It was a very impressive list thanks to the ITC essentially making that awesome Stompa 300-400pts cheaper than it should be. :-p
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW... out of curiosity, has anyone math-hammered who is better off leading a Bike unit? Zhadsnark get's 2+ Jink (right? Skilled Rider + the boost from Turbo Boosting), but a Warboss with Da Lucky Stick has a 3+, and the re-roll shenanigans, plus is still cheaper.
No real math hammer, but because zhadsnarks ability applies to the whole squad he is with and warboss with da lucky stick does not. I'd take Zhadnsark. Or...take both.
Does ObSec in a transport still work? The recent FAQ says that a unit embarking on a vehicle is taken off the battlefield:
Q: I have a question regarding unit special rules that affect all or some units within a certain range of a model or unit. How do these interact with units inside Transports, and what happens if the unit with the rule is inside a Transport?
A: When a unit embarks on a vehicle it is taken off the battlefield and does not interact with anything on the battlefield. However, certain rules may create exceptions to this rule, with the most obvious examples being Fire Points, psychic powers and Transports. If a unit’s rules are meant to apply even when embarked on a Transport, they will specify this.
Cleatus wrote: Does ObSec in a transport still work? The recent FAQ says that a unit embarking on a vehicle is taken off the battlefield:
Q: I have a question regarding unit special rules that affect all or some units within a certain range of a model or unit. How do these interact with units inside Transports, and what happens if the unit with the rule is inside a Transport?
A: When a unit embarks on a vehicle it is taken off the battlefield and does not interact with anything on the battlefield. However, certain rules may create exceptions to this rule, with the most obvious examples being Fire Points, psychic powers and Transports. If a unit’s rules are meant to apply even when embarked on a Transport, they will specify this.
Depends on if they are dedicated transports of Ob-Sec units, partly... right? I mean DT of ob-sec units are themselves ob-sec, which by-passes the debate entirely.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a question on behalf of my wife. Do Ork competitive players ever dabble with Desperate Allies who like to play at different ranges, thus getting around the penalty?
IE... why an investment in so many Mek Guns, etc... and not a Riptide Wing... other than assassination of fluff? :-p
I feel like it's for the same reason they don't do Unbound that often- rigidity of thought.
Also, why take a second faction, when you could just take Orktide Wings and other Looted stuff? Most of the time, people just model looted orky stuff as 'counts as' for other armies. Because Orks.
Depends on if they are dedicated transports of Ob-Sec units, partly... right? I mean DT of ob-sec units are themselves ob-sec, which by-passes the debate entirely.
The stompa is a DT to big mek only. And he only has obsec when he's a warlord.
Here's a question on behalf of my wife. Do Ork competitive players ever dabble with Desperate Allies who like to play at different ranges, thus getting around the penalty?
IE... why an investment in so many Mek Guns, etc... and not a Riptide Wing... other than assassination of fluff? :-p
Part of the reason is that grot gunz are cheaper, you don't need to take a minimum of 520 pts of them, they don't need further investment in markerlights and don't get deleted by grav which is extremely common.
Part of the reason is that grot gunz are cheaper, you don't need to take a minimum of 520 pts of them, they don't need further investment in markerlights and don't get deleted by grav which is extremely common.
If they were that bad of an investment of 520pts... you wouldn't see them at half the tables at LVO. :-p Mobility, Marker-light semi-independence, and extremely hard to kill outside of Grav. :-p
Part of the reason is that grot gunz are cheaper, you don't need to take a minimum of 520 pts of them, they don't need further investment in markerlights and don't get deleted by grav which is extremely common.
If they were that bad of an investment of 520pts... you wouldn't see them at half the tables at LVO. :-p Mobility, Marker-light semi-independence, and extremely hard to kill outside of Grav. :-p
They also have twice the range of the Mek gunz for the most part. Not to mention being harder to kill vs almost everything else except grav. T7 is good, but unless they are in cover your grots have NO SAVE and they can get burned out pretty quickly by a single unit of Scat bikes or a well placed Large blast weapon. Nah, Riptide wings are superior almost across the board. Also Mek gunz are useless if you don't upgrade them to something, IE KMKs, And thats another 12pts plus the extra grot crew so 15pts. So, still relatively cheap, but your now up to 32pts a model for a single S8AP2 small blast that over heats.
Well, my wife doesn't have a Dakka account, but i'll post her findings as she stole my three Riptides, to Orkify them... all I know is, I saw pink paint and glitter... so i'm devastated. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well, my wife doesn't have a Dakka account, but i'll post her findings as she stole my three Riptides, to Orkify them... all I know is, I saw pink paint and glitter... so i'm devastated. :-p
Have her get a box of killa kans for kustomizin' the riptides! Theres a ton of awesome bits to use for them!
Here are my two Ork-tides. I've even gotten to the point with looted crisis suits that i could run a legit farsight army with looted Tau
Thank you, and thank you, anpu-adom (haven't figured out multi quote on phone)! I've tried to put a lot of heart into my Orks by incorporating as many armies from my play group as possible and coming up with stories with everyone on how my Orks got ahold of all the junk.
So far i have 2 eldar falcons, a ghost ark, a carnifex that's dragging a wagon, a trukk with the rear end of a leman russ used as the front armor, and as of today, a Dark Eldar raider! On top of my 6 'Krisis Soots', 2 Ork-Tides, 10 gargoyles chained to unfortunate boys as stormboys, and 10 drone riding storm boys!
Sorry about the off topic, i just like sharing.
Drone riding stormboyz... That may just get done.
I've made a Kustum Meka Dread out of a Nemesis Dreadknight. Not sure if I'll go with a Riptide or a Ghostkeel... but either way, those drones are going to be saved from some stormboyz...
This needs mode discussion! I love the idea! Was it already discussed earlier in this massive thread?
Obviously I think some support would be needed (mek gunz, lootas, koptas, etc.) to balance the list a bit.
It, like almost every Ork build, is a gimmick. Against a foe who has never faced it, or whose list is completely ill prepared for this it works wonderfully. Against competitive armies.....its a Turn 2 fail.
For starters if the IG player had gotten 1st turn that entire battle gets flipped on its head simply because a Leman Russ can pretty reliably kill a trukk depending on side sponsons and what not. But for starters its main Cannon Rolls 2D6 to pen and needs a 3 to penetrate an Ork Trukk. Your opponent had 2 of them so he reliably had 2 Penetrating hits on 1-2 Trukkz, throw in the Heavy bolter shots that are snap firing and those 2 Tanks reliably kill 1 Trukk (NOT COST EFFICIENT) The Vanquishers though....they are killing a Trukk easily S8 AP2 Armorbane. Then Pask shoots with split fire from his Destroyer and Pask will reliably kill 1 Trukk with the Punisher Cannon and He then has 9 S5 BS4 Heavy bolter shots into a 2nd trukk. 6 hits and add in rending so.... probably another dead Trukk. The Demolisher is weird, because its probably going to hit, its auto-penetrating so it becomes a 1/3 chance to explode (AP2 + Open Topped) so lets say it helps another unit finish off a Trukk. Now I don't know what your opponent had in his Vet squads, but the Chimera's probably had a multi-laser and a heavy bolter minimum, he might have changed the weapons around but meh whatever. if 2 chimera's target the same Trukk thats 6 S6 shots and 6 S5 shots at BS3 per Trukk which means 3 S6 hits and 3 S6 hits. Those 6s will pen/glance 1.5 times and the Heavy Bolters will do 1 more, so reliably 1 dead Trukk maybe 2. Hellhound would probably run up the field and flame any survivors but could Glance/pen a trukk 1/2 the time.
So turn 1 you opponent would have RELIABLY killed 5 Trukkz and depending on lucky rolls, maybe 1-2 more. You just went from 100boyz rushing up the field to 50, AND depending on explodes results, those other 50 might be severely decimated. Add in the fact that they would have to take a Pinning Test and you are in trouble. Best part for your opponent? He now gets 1 more full turn to FETH UP YOUR TRUKKZ! AND Who knows what those veterans were equipped with, if they had any Melta weapons then the math really changes.
Nah this list is to gimmicky to be worth taking in anything but friendly games.
This needs mode discussion! I love the idea! Was it already discussed earlier in this massive thread?
Obviously I think some support would be needed (mek gunz, lootas, koptas, etc.) to balance the list a bit.
It, like almost every Ork build, is a gimmick. Against a foe who has never faced it, or whose list is completely ill prepared for this it works wonderfully. Against competitive armies.....its a Turn 2 fail.
For starters if the IG player had gotten 1st turn that entire battle gets flipped on its head simply because a Leman Russ can pretty reliably kill a trukk depending on side sponsons and what not. But for starters its main Cannon Rolls 2D6 to pen and needs a 3 to penetrate an Ork Trukk. Your opponent had 2 of them so he reliably had 2 Penetrating hits on 1-2 Trukkz, throw in the Heavy bolter shots that are snap firing and those 2 Tanks reliably kill 1 Trukk (NOT COST EFFICIENT) The Vanquishers though....they are killing a Trukk easily S8 AP2 Armorbane. Then Pask shoots with split fire from his Destroyer and Pask will reliably kill 1 Trukk with the Punisher Cannon and He then has 9 S5 BS4 Heavy bolter shots into a 2nd trukk. 6 hits and add in rending so.... probably another dead Trukk. The Demolisher is weird, because its probably going to hit, its auto-penetrating so it becomes a 1/3 chance to explode (AP2 + Open Topped) so lets say it helps another unit finish off a Trukk. Now I don't know what your opponent had in his Vet squads, but the Chimera's probably had a multi-laser and a heavy bolter minimum, he might have changed the weapons around but meh whatever. if 2 chimera's target the same Trukk thats 6 S6 shots and 6 S5 shots at BS3 per Trukk which means 3 S6 hits and 3 S6 hits. Those 6s will pen/glance 1.5 times and the Heavy Bolters will do 1 more, so reliably 1 dead Trukk maybe 2. Hellhound would probably run up the field and flame any survivors but could Glance/pen a trukk 1/2 the time.
So turn 1 you opponent would have RELIABLY killed 5 Trukkz and depending on lucky rolls, maybe 1-2 more. You just went from 100boyz rushing up the field to 50, AND depending on explodes results, those other 50 might be severely decimated. Add in the fact that they would have to take a Pinning Test and you are in trouble. Best part for your opponent? He now gets 1 more full turn to FETH UP YOUR TRUKKZ! AND Who knows what those veterans were equipped with, if they had any Melta weapons then the math really changes.
Nah this list is to gimmicky to be worth taking in anything but friendly games.
Maybe on planet bowling ball but any sensible table has good cover on it which will greatly diminish the damage done to the trukks. Also with every unit having a MAW giving leadership 9 and Slow + Purposeful making it so they can't be pinned and generally pass leadership just fine (if the boss is tanking the wounds then they become quite durable). Anyways this list could very easily be modified to drop a trukk squad (drop a CAD, change another to be an Ork Horde Detachment for 3 HQs and 3 Troops), add a Void Shield Generator, and give the Warlord a Lucky Stikk for extra durability. Ork lists tend to be a bit "gimmicky" because the base codex is weak while Orks have decent potential at utilizing all in type strategies that work against a fair amount of stuff but have obvious hard counters. The general strategy lists like Zhadsnark biker lists, Bully Boyz, and Tankbustas are very well established mid tier lists and nothing much has changed for the Orks to shake up the general purpose Ork meta. What can work is the off balanced lists that try to exploit trends in the meta or throwing in the odd ball configurations that people aren't expecting or have equally off balanced loadouts to deal with.
This needs mode discussion! I love the idea! Was it already discussed earlier in this massive thread?
Obviously I think some support would be needed (mek gunz, lootas, koptas, etc.) to balance the list a bit.
It, like almost every Ork build, is a gimmick. Against a foe who has never faced it, or whose list is completely ill prepared for this it works wonderfully. Against competitive armies.....its a Turn 2 fail.
For starters if the IG player had gotten 1st turn that entire battle gets flipped on its head simply because a Leman Russ can pretty reliably kill a trukk depending on side sponsons and what not. But for starters its main Cannon Rolls 2D6 to pen and needs a 3 to penetrate an Ork Trukk. Your opponent had 2 of them so he reliably had 2 Penetrating hits on 1-2 Trukkz, throw in the Heavy bolter shots that are snap firing and those 2 Tanks reliably kill 1 Trukk (NOT COST EFFICIENT) The Vanquishers though....they are killing a Trukk easily S8 AP2 Armorbane. Then Pask shoots with split fire from his Destroyer and Pask will reliably kill 1 Trukk with the Punisher Cannon and He then has 9 S5 BS4 Heavy bolter shots into a 2nd trukk. 6 hits and add in rending so.... probably another dead Trukk. The Demolisher is weird, because its probably going to hit, its auto-penetrating so it becomes a 1/3 chance to explode (AP2 + Open Topped) so lets say it helps another unit finish off a Trukk. Now I don't know what your opponent had in his Vet squads, but the Chimera's probably had a multi-laser and a heavy bolter minimum, he might have changed the weapons around but meh whatever. if 2 chimera's target the same Trukk thats 6 S6 shots and 6 S5 shots at BS3 per Trukk which means 3 S6 hits and 3 S6 hits. Those 6s will pen/glance 1.5 times and the Heavy Bolters will do 1 more, so reliably 1 dead Trukk maybe 2. Hellhound would probably run up the field and flame any survivors but could Glance/pen a trukk 1/2 the time.
So turn 1 you opponent would have RELIABLY killed 5 Trukkz and depending on lucky rolls, maybe 1-2 more. You just went from 100boyz rushing up the field to 50, AND depending on explodes results, those other 50 might be severely decimated. Add in the fact that they would have to take a Pinning Test and you are in trouble. Best part for your opponent? He now gets 1 more full turn to FETH UP YOUR TRUKKZ! AND Who knows what those veterans were equipped with, if they had any Melta weapons then the math really changes.
Nah this list is to gimmicky to be worth taking in anything but friendly games.
Maybe on planet bowling ball but any sensible table has good cover on it which will greatly diminish the damage done to the trukks. Also with every unit having a MAW giving leadership 9 and Slow + Purposeful making it so they can't be pinned and generally pass leadership just fine (if the boss is tanking the wounds then they become quite durable). Anyways this list could very easily be modified to drop a trukk squad (drop a CAD, change another to be an Ork Horde Detachment for 3 HQs and 3 Troops), add a Void Shield Generator, and give the Warlord a Lucky Stikk for extra durability. Ork lists tend to be a bit "gimmicky" because the base codex is weak while Orks have decent potential at utilizing all in type strategies that work against a fair amount of stuff but have obvious hard counters. The general strategy lists like Zhadsnark biker lists, Bully Boyz, and Tankbustas are very well established mid tier lists and nothing much has changed for the Orks to shake up the general purpose Ork meta. What can work is the off balanced lists that try to exploit trends in the meta or throwing in the odd ball configurations that people aren't expecting or have equally off balanced loadouts to deal with.
I'd be happy to ask the opponent for an exact rematch and give him turn one but as you mentioned, there was plenty of 4+ cover in my deployment zone and we happened to have Night Fighting. The problem with his Squadrons is that I have too many targets. He got to fire everything he had at my entire army 1" away and only destroyed Two Trukks and immobilized a third.
So I do appreciate the first persons Mathhammer but cover, scatter, and Ramshackle I think I'd lose three Trukks first turn.
So that's three units holding my back objectives. Seven Trukks make it to his line and the results would eventually be the same.
I repeat: this list was a goof that was hella fun to play and would lose to most competitive lists in a heartbeat but it really opened my eyes. Just imagine getting five of these Trukks into anyone's deployment zone. Ditching beat down mobs and being able to absorb Overwatch, etc.
It has its strengths, don't knock it till you try it.
I find on average when cover, range, and statistical variability 3 trukks per turn is a pretty average expectation. Higher end Eldar and Tau lists can hit higher but at that point you should be playing with reserves so the average should settle back down to three per turn.
You should try some non MA warbosses maybe. That way you can get your boyz to waaagh turn two for just that extra distance for armies that line up along the back of their deployment zone or in the corners.
Yeah, you may lose some trukks and some boyz, but how many powerklaws die turn one? Probably not that many. Regular boyz are like pawns in a chess game or a lizard that can shed its whole tail.
AM anti-armour techniques are mostly wasted on orks. Whereas vs SM we have to worry about basic bolters, AM infatry cannot hurt turkks with their basic weapons, leaving that exclusively to their anti tank weapons like lascannons, melta, or plasma.While they do get a chance to explode trukks they are massively expensive to be dealing one HP a turn to trukks. It's inefficient. Trukks hard counter melta especially, which relies on drop podding, deep striking, or some other delivery system that while affecting ork mobility, effectively deliver them into the teeth of the meatgrinder, negating the need for that mobility in the first place. Really, there's a 1/4 chance to explode the trukk at best so banking on that to happen just because it can happen is not a good bet.
DLS and Skorcha is a crazy good combo. Auto hit reroll to wound? Ya def. This focuses less on HQ, more emphasis on target saturation. Two more trukks, fewer S10 pks in favour of greater numbers of S9. A S9 PK is like half the point cost of a S10, not that there isn't times where only S10 will do, but you have both and more pks overall. Koptas are perfect saturation compliments. They have scout, and DFK will allow you to potentially infiltrate some trukks too among other things. It also allows you to waaagh, which your list can't with a S&P MA boss in every unit. This gives you a turn two charge radius of 24+12+3d6(+rerolls.) for an average of 47-50". Which is important because 50" is the distance from the front of your deployment zone to the back edge deployment from mid board, and really helps getting to the back corner in vanguard. Makes all the distance in certain games.
I like your list a lot, I wouldn't even recommend changing it really, but if I were to do a similar list that's what it would look like.
slip wrote: I find on average when cover, range, and statistical variability 3 trukks per turn is a pretty average expectation. Higher end Eldar and Tau lists can hit higher but at that point you should be playing with reserves so the average should settle back down to three per turn.
You should try some non MA warbosses maybe. That way you can get your boyz to waaagh turn two for just that extra distance for armies that line up along the back of their deployment zone or in the corners.
Yeah, you may lose some trukks and some boyz, but how many powerklaws die turn one? Probably not that many. Regular boyz are like pawns in a chess game or a lizard that can shed its whole tail.
AM anti-armour techniques are mostly wasted on orks. Whereas vs SM we have to worry about basic bolters, AM infatry cannot hurt turkks with their basic weapons, leaving that exclusively to their anti tank weapons like lascannons, melta, or plasma.While they do get a chance to explode trukks they are massively expensive to be dealing one HP a turn to trukks. It's inefficient. Trukks hard counter melta especially, which relies on drop podding, deep striking, or some other delivery system that while affecting ork mobility, effectively deliver them into the teeth of the meatgrinder, negating the need for that mobility in the first place. Really, there's a 1/4 chance to explode the trukk at best so banking on that to happen just because it can happen is not a good bet.
DLS and Skorcha is a crazy good combo. Auto hit reroll to wound? Ya def. This focuses less on HQ, more emphasis on target saturation. Two more trukks, fewer S10 pks in favour of greater numbers of S9. A S9 PK is like half the point cost of a S10, not that there isn't times where only S10 will do, but you have both and more pks overall. Koptas are perfect saturation compliments. They have scout, and DFK will allow you to potentially infiltrate some trukks too among other things. It also allows you to waaagh, which your list can't with a S&P MA boss in every unit. This gives you a turn two charge radius of 24+12+3d6(+rerolls.) for an average of 47-50". Which is important because 50" is the distance from the front of your deployment zone to the back edge deployment from mid board, and really helps getting to the back corner in vanguard. Makes all the distance in certain games.
I like your list a lot, I wouldn't even recommend changing it really, but if I were to do a similar list that's what it would look like.
Love your lizard tail metaphor. I could halvsies on MAWB and Regular with Eavy Armor, PK, DLS, other toys. The Bosses can jump around as Trukks explode. Maybe 5 Trukks with MAWB up Front, and behind them the EA Bosses. Or the other way around. I'm not too worried about back of opponents deployment zone since Orks still have regular move and reroll charge for that final bit. No Waaagh Necessary.
Love more Trukks as well as distractions. I'll look into it.
I love the single Koptas and Single Kannonz! Think of all the harassment!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: And like with every trukkspam list - VSG and cover ftw.
Whenever I Mathhammer I assume the opponent has perfect miracle cover and my cover is situational: call me a pessimist but against Tau and Eldar, its best to assume the worst. I'll have to look into the VSG. Or just start all the Trukks on a Landing Pad and leap off Dukes of Hazzard style the first turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just realized that the Deffkoptas can be mobile cover for the Trukks: deploy the Trukks on the line, Scout the Koptas in front, easily obscuring the Trukks by having them sideways, move in Tandem, Jink with Koptas, 5++ Cover for Trukks!!
Hey, with my expanding collection of Orks, I was hoping to soon be able to start playing games with them. Currently, I can really only do Kill Team, and I would use a list like this: -10 Grots + Runtherd -10 Boyz + big shoota + klaw Nob -2 Deffkoptas using TL Rokkits (OR 1 Deffkopta and a Trukk) ~195 points
When I start expanding my Ork collection, I hope to have an army looking roughly like this: -MA warboss with klaw and lucky stikk with MANZ in a battlewagon (I'd probably convert regular Nobz for the MANZ) -Several units of Trukk Boyz with klaw Nobz -1 or 2 gretchin units -Bikers with a klaw Nob and a Painboy -Deffkoptas (currently have 3, is this enough?) No idea what kind of points cost I'd be looking at there
I am hardly knowledgable about Ork tactics (hence asking on this thread), so any feedback about whether I'm moving in the right direction would be great. Thanks!
KommissarKiln wrote: Hey, with my expanding collection of Orks, I was hoping to soon be able to start playing games with them. Currently, I can really only do Kill Team, and I would use a list like this:
-10 Grots + Runtherd
-10 Boyz + big shoota + klaw Nob
-2 Deffkoptas using TL Rokkits (OR 1 Deffkopta and a Trukk)
~195 points
When I start expanding my Ork collection, I hope to have an army looking roughly like this:
-MA warboss with klaw and lucky stikk with MANZ in a battlewagon (I'd probably convert regular Nobz for the MANZ)
-Several units of Trukk Boyz with klaw Nobz
-1 or 2 gretchin units
-Bikers with a klaw Nob and a Painboy
-Deffkoptas (currently have 3, is this enough?)
No idea what kind of points cost I'd be looking at there
I am hardly knowledgable about Ork tactics (hence asking on this thread), so any feedback about whether I'm moving in the right direction would be great. Thanks!
With those units you can be around 1000-1500 points.... about deffkoptas they're really worthy in solo units so unless you're planning to go double CAD three of them are certainly enough, I suggest you to invest in something else.
I love the single Koptas and Single Kannonz! Think of all the harassment!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: And like with every trukkspam list - VSG and cover ftw.
Whenever I Mathhammer I assume the opponent has perfect miracle cover and my cover is situational: call me a pessimist but against Tau and Eldar, its best to assume the worst. I'll have to look into the VSG. Or just start all the Trukks on a Landing Pad and leap off Dukes of Hazzard style the first turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just realized that the Deffkoptas can be mobile cover for the Trukks: deploy the Trukks on the line, Scout the Koptas in front, easily obscuring the Trukks by having them sideways, move in Tandem, Jink with Koptas, 5++ Cover for Trukks!!
Yep, single kannons in ruins are awesome! Pretty solid for 18 pts!
Yeah I always use my koptas for cover for trukks or BW if need be, they are pretty awesome!
Glitcha wrote: Well LVO (Las Vegas Open) was this past weekend and I had some time to sit down and catch couple of the games. One of the games was Orks vs admech. Ork player was running a really punchy list. From what I gather from the video his list was:
Zhadsnark
Big mek in mega armor
2 units of grots
1 unit of bikes
2 full units of mek gun (KMK)
Big mek stompa (buzzgob) or Kustom stompa?
Void shield generator
First, congrats to this guy. He managed to pull of a win. Second personally i'm not sold on his list. There is an issue with Zhadsnark and Mek gunz. Accord to Zhadsnark's rules, you can not have deff dread, kill kans, or big guns in your army. This rule was never updated when the new codex came out and big guns were renamed to Mek gunz. Personally, I've gone with that a Mek gun and big guns are the same unit. I'm sure the lists had to go through some approval process before hand, but it just seems like a gray area that could be argued.
Third, strategy. Since Objective secured is so huge for tournament play and the taking/ hold kind of objective play. This crafty git put a unit of grots in his stompa. Now you might be thinking why do that? Well now you got an Objective secured stompa running around on the table. It becomes a great objective holder.
For the record the ITC rules 'Big Guns' as 'Mek Guns' in this case. In addition the limitation on 'Big Guns' is part of his warlord trait; so it only applies if he is the warlord; which is not the case here.
gungo wrote: He didn't need to put grots in buzzgrob stompa if buzzgrob is the warlord it's already one of the toughest warlords and obj secured.
I'm hoping that bigmek has a KFF or MFF for the stompa.
The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa isn't ObSec. The Buzzgob's WLT just makes the Stompa scoring. Granted the wording of scoring was printed before ObSec was a thing. Did ITC rule that the Stompa is ObSec? Or did you just assume that Scoring meaning ObSec in this case?
I don't run kannons, but here is a 1862 list with lobbas. It'll get murdered on the killpoint missions, but hey who's perfect? Need to drop something to get it under 1850:
JimOnMars wrote: I don't run kannons, but here is a 1862 list with lobbas. It'll get murdered on the killpoint missions, but hey who's perfect? Need to drop something to get it under 1850:
Bosses N Kads
3 Detachments
[...]
TOTAL 1862
Pity the farseer up against 9 lobbas!
Footslogging tankbustas? I would put them in trukks and ditch a few lobbas/koptas.
Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.
I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.
It's like saying that landraiders get 3++ because they're dedicated transports to assault terminators.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.
I used to make the same mistakes, dedicated transports have just the same role of the units they carry, not their special rules. That's why boyz' trukks in CADs are obj sec, not because dedicated transports inherit special rules from their passengers.
ProwlerPC wrote: I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.
I agree, single kannons are better than single lobbas. Lobbas belong in squads with ammo runts imo. You could proxy your lobbas as kannons.
ProwlerPC wrote: I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.
I agree, single kannons are better than single lobbas. Lobbas belong in squads with ammo runts imo. You could proxy your lobbas as kannons.
+1 for the trukk NOT getting tank hunter.
I'd argue a mix of Kannon and Lobba. If you place your own objectives, hide your three and plant out of LOS Lobbas to hold them. Kannon can be good as long as they have a clear shot. Also the more Deffkoptas, the less you need Kannon and Lobbas quasi-sniper effects can be more useful.
Finally, I've run TB on foot many times to good effect and with this many Trukks and Koptas, no opponent is going to bother with 5 Tankbustas. A Trukk could be a liability when it explodes.
Finally, I've run TB on foot many times to good effect and with this many Trukks and Koptas, no opponent is going to bother with 5 Tankbustas. A Trukk could be a liability when it explodes.
But 5 footslogging tankbustas are an automatic first blood or kill point... if they have transport they should ride in a trukks spam so they wouldn't be a priority target mostly. Very few times I've seen tankbustas' trukks explosions. And IMHO those 35 points worth the extra movement and the extra protection because even with the chance of getting hurt by an explosion orks on trukks are safer than orks on foot.
gungo wrote: He didn't need to put grots in buzzgrob stompa if buzzgrob is the warlord it's already one of the toughest warlords and obj secured.
I'm hoping that bigmek has a KFF or MFF for the stompa.
The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa isn't ObSec. The Buzzgob's WLT just makes the Stompa scoring. Granted the wording of scoring was printed before ObSec was a thing. Did ITC rule that the Stompa is ObSec? Or did you just assume that Scoring meaning ObSec in this case?
No ITC did not rule the Buzzgob's warlord trait makes him ObSec. I believe that is the reason why the player put grots inside the stompa, because they are ObSec. The reason we are talking about it is because the player claimed the Stompa was ObSec during the game when claiming an objective. Putting a ObSec unit inside would be the only way to achieve this.
I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.
I agree about ghaz and grotsnik, we absolutely need another megarmored warboss model and grotsnik is way too old, but rather than a biker boss I'd like a new psyker, like zogwort, as the regular weirboy model is awful.
gungo wrote: Well that's a redundant and useless warlord trait then. Here's hoping 8th ed puts up every dataslate including old outdated fw units on the BL page.
I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.
In a few years it should be the orks' turn to get an Imperial Armor. Until then don't count on anything getting updated.
Speaking of FW things getting updated, did the IA8 gun wagon get an updated entry with hull points anywhere? I was considering running one but can't find whether it has three or four hull points and have heard it both ways with no official sources.
I know its not 'orks' but since the gorkanaught is so terrible has anyone considered using one as a renegade knight?! kinda works, gatling cannon, ccw...
I ran a Renegade Knight, twin close combat weapons though. It ran at a Wraithknight, the D weapons bounced off the shield and then it munched the xenos in combat. Then it was promptly destroyed by 5 Wraithguard with more D weapons. So, mixed results, but it saved those units from shooting the rest of my army!
Automatically Appended Next Post: This was just because I wanted to convert one tbh...
Hey guys, anyone here tried the Air Armada formation (3 dakkajets 1 burna-bommer 1 blitza-bommer who come back from ongoing reserves at full HP and weapons)? I'd like to try it in a friendly 1500 pts game against Necrons/DE/Harlequins, I think it could be fun!
I was going for Da Finkin' Kap on my warlord and an ADL with Comms Relay to ensure they all enter the game on T2. What do you think?
gungo wrote: Well that's a redundant and useless warlord trait then. Here's hoping 8th ed puts up every dataslate including old outdated fw units on the BL page.
I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.
Never hope this! Hahahaha.
The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa is greatly underpriced. So much so that FW released a statement declaring that the 400 pts stompa was a typo mistake. However, they never released an official FAQ changing the point cost. As soon as a newer version is release I expect it to go back to be greatly overcosted. Just let it ride out as long as possible!
I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.
I agree about ghaz and grotsnik, we absolutely need another megarmored warboss model and grotsnik is way too old, but rather than a biker boss I'd like a new psyker, like zogwort, as the regular weirboy model is awful.
I love the weirdboy finecast model. It's super characterful with all the gretchin holding chains. However a new Character with his own unique power wouldn't hurt.
I think a bikerboss model is very popular with people mostly just using zhardsnark fw model.
However wazdakka was a fairly badarse character as a big mek on bike that had battlecannons instead of dakka guns make this model dual purpose as a warboss with PK and it would sell extremely well. (Add an optional KFF bit and it's bonus).
Personally I'd love to see new Maddoc model With a new painklaw option that's a 2+ poison ap2 klaw. The current painboy model makes no sense with its massive klaw representing doc tools.
Anvildude wrote: I just want to see a Tankbusta or Burna special character/warlord.
For being called "glory hogs", i actually don't know any who are actually glorious.
Not that you should be wishing for this. The special characters for stormboyz, kommandoes, flash gitz, etc. etc. are all the badass looking crazy expensive models that absolutely blow on the table.
I don't see how 400 points for the Big Mek stompa is overpriced when Imperial Knights are 375 - 425. I get they have half the hull points but they have better shooting, higher initiative, and invul save. And don't get me started on Wraith Knights....
I think 400 points is more or less a fair point cost, anything more than that and they will not see play anymore.
Even at that price point it's pretty overcosted. Higher end lists and vehicle based psyker powers wreck them. They're suppossed to brings some dakka but thanks to bs2 the scatter turns everything to garbage and I've yet to see the 3d6 shots make it to round 3, even if the stompa does. It also doesn't mesh with the mechanized ork lists that usually wind up in itc.
I'll take the 550 pts Big Mek Stompa with 2 S10 AP1 7" Blasts. That seems fair. Put a 135 pt Big Mek with 4++ and it almost never dies - at least by shooting. It takes quite a bit of misplay for it to die. Yes, we are now talking about 685 pts in 1 model but add another 35 and its obsec. You don't really need more repairs (it has 2 at this point). 1100 points to play with for the rest of the army seems fair. It's not broken, but it's fair. I also think IK for 375 is fair. They are definitely not broken and the 2 models shouldn't be compared. They do completely different things and side armor 13 is a pretty big deal.
Edit: The 770 codex stompa is ridiculously overpriced however. It has no D6 void shields. It has no repair mechanic by itself. No 2 free grot oilers. Worse weapons all around. No custom weapon options. No S shooting. No Auto-wreck liftadropa. It's large PoS. Haha. I'm hoping Nova allows the Buzzgob Stompa this year or I might have to change my list... D:
). 
Now that is one proper orky walker. Well done my friend, that looks amazing and shows creative usages of parts from other kits. May it Waaagh! forever, stompy and flash.
