Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

Something else: If a unit of grots is in combat with their runtherd, just put the runtherd in the back and refuse challenges. The runtherd can't use his leadership, but the refusing challenges rule says nothing about the fearless USR, so the unit is still fearless.

Even against the likes of wolfstar, etc a decently sized grot unit is likely to survive at least one round of combat, locking in the deathstar. On the next turn, the next set of fearless grots can be brought in, etc., theoretically locking up a deathstar for a long time.

Also...additional runtherds are cheaper than meks.

Why is this not a thing?

Good points. I used to run two 29 grot units when I ran a Stompa List, one on each side of the Stompa as it moved up the field.

Either of those units could tie up almost any unit in the game for awhile.

Nice thing about the Traktor Kannonz is that if you do have to move you're already snap firing at most targets anyways. Ocurion with Council of Waaagh is just so irritating to opponents

Proper deathstars will kill 11 models without rolling dice. Also - HnR is allow a thing

Saythings wrote:
Proper deathstars will kill 11 models without rolling dice. Also - HnR is allow a thing

What is "HnR"

 JimOnMars wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Actually this brings up an excellent point: if the Runtherder dies then the Unit is no longer Fearless. Also I add the mandatory Mek required for The Orcurion to the KMK Mek Gunz but technically the Lobbas have no Ere We Go model. A lot of the time I park the BikerBoss there but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

Something else: If a unit of grots is in combat with their runtherd, just put the runtherd in the back and refuse challenges. The runtherd can't use his leadership, but the refusing challenges rule says nothing about the fearless USR, so the unit is still fearless.

Even against the likes of wolfstar, etc a decently sized grot unit is likely to survive at least one round of combat, locking in the deathstar. On the next turn, the next set of fearless grots can be brought in, etc., theoretically locking up a deathstar for a long time.

Also...additional runtherds are cheaper than meks.

Why is this not a thing?

Probably because of the excessive points cost of the council of waaagh to get guaranteed Prophet of the WAAAGH! to gain armywide perma-fearless. That plus fearless grots, while hilarious and awesome, just don't have the mobility to trap the most annoying deathstars and killy units like Wraithknights or Riptides.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grendel083 wrote:

Saythings wrote:
Proper deathstars will kill 11 models without rolling dice. Also - HnR is allow a thing

What is "HnR"

Hit and Run.

Brigning this tread in the first page where it belongs

So, my meta has grown quite Imperial Knight heavy in the last year and I am reagularly getting whiped by those big buggers. Even trying to tarpit them isn't quite effective with the stomps...

Is there any counter to those IK we can use?

Bully boyz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or a ton of fearless grots

Alkorus wrote:
Brigning this tread in the first page where it belongs

So, my meta has grown quite Imperial Knight heavy in the last year and I am reagularly getting whiped by those big buggers. Even trying to tarpit them isn't quite effective with the stomps...

Is there any counter to those IK we can use?

What seems to work as a Guard player is having anti-tank weapons in several areas. The main idea is to position them in several angles such that the invul save cannot cover all the angles that the shots are coming in from. With Guard, it's usually lascannons shooting from our backfield straight at the knight's front armor. After you strip a couple hullpoints eventually, they may try to move it much closer to your lines to assault, at which point those meltaguns hit from the side...

I don't know exactly what orks have along these lines, but I hope the general idea can apply to you guys too.

 koooaei wrote:
Bully boyz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or a ton of fearless grots

As koooaei stated, bully boyz working alongside tankbustas in trukks nipping at their flanks is good since knights only have AV13 on the front and can only place their ion shield on one facing so positioning is going to be important. Be sure to take bomb squigs with the tankbustas to get near guaranteed hits.

Besides that, try to play to objectives if you can. Knight armies are scary but they can only be in so many places at once.

it also depends on the FAQs (remember them?) and if they decide to unnerf melta bombs. If meltabombs get unnerfed (regarding "throwing" them) then the tankbustas are a great suicide squad against the knights.

Min squads of kommandos with two rokkits can outflank to get rear armor on knights even better is a full squadron of warbuggies outflanking with five twin linked rokkits. A good volley of looted will glance on 6s. A Weirdboy can ride along with tankbustas to give his witchfire powers the tank hunters USR (remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with). Da jump can get you rear armor or just a different facing vs the shield.

Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?

 Hades wrote:
(remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with).

You roll for powers after deployment.

 koooaei wrote:

 Hades wrote:
(remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with).

You roll for powers after deployment.

In the beginning of the psychic phase portion of the rulebook under Generating Psychic Powers it's says to do so before the game begins. Deployment is part of the game, as is choosing the terrain, rolling for warlord traits choosing mission etc as explained in the Preparing for Battle section.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?

.

Likely not Tank Hunters specifically says a unit with at least one model gains tank hunters. Special rules have to say they'll carry over otherwise the BRB says ICs don't give special rules to units they join or vice versa

 Hades wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Hades wrote:
(remember to roll for powers before choosing who to deploy him with).

You roll for powers after deployment.

In the beginning of the psychic phase portion of the rulebook under Generating Psychic Powers it's says to do so before the game begins. Deployment is part of the game, as is choosing the terrain, rolling for warlord traits choosing mission etc as explained in the Preparing for Battle section.

I always thought that deployment is not yet game

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
Hades- follow up question on the tankbustas: if you send a weirdboy with them, and he blows up a tank with a power for first blood, do you get the Glory Hog VP bonus? Or does it have to be a tankbusta model and an IC with the squad won't cut it?

Tankhunter confers to the weirdboy, so he get's to re-roll armor penetration. Great for the beam! Not sure about Glory Hogs, it does say "units of tankbustas", so I think they are still that kind of unit even with a joining MC.

New boss here, trying to figure out how to arm my kopters and a battle wagon. Here is the link for my 500 point list. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/0/9010984.page

charz wrote:
New boss here, trying to figure out how to arm my kopters and a battle wagon. Here is the link for my 500 point list. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/quote/0/9010984.page

Deffkoptas are best left with their twin-linked rokkit launcha since they have the speed and ability to get shots off at rear and side armour for vehicles. If you play maelstrom of war a lot, I highly suggest taking them as single units and having them outflank to gain behind enemy lines and for sneaky objective grabbing without giving up first blood.

Battlewagons are best used as a sturdy but semi-cheap transport. I would avoid decking it out in guns. A single rokkit launcha/big shoota upgrade and reinforced ram to ensure it gets where its supposed to be should be good enough.

I put only twin-linked rokkits on my deffkoptas. The big shootas are okay, but deffkoptas are pretty good at getting potshots off on rear armor, and being general distractions as single squads. As far as battlewagons go, it depends on what you need them for. I usually arm mine with nothing but a big shoota, as I use mine purely as transports for blobs of 20 boyz.

Also, after taking a look at your list, a have a few suggestions. A deff dread with one extra claw, skorcha, and grot riggers is only 105, not 160. Besides, I'd probably take off the skorcha and add another powerklaw. A skorcha has the chance to kill the dread out of charge range.

I also wouldn't bother using the squig hound with the grots. If you have points left over, why not, but I like to keep my grots as cheap as possible.

I'd definitely recommend getting a warboss and some bikers next. As you build your list you'll have more ways to build it, so there's really not much I can comment on here at the moment.

Edit: I forgot about the rams for the battlewagons. I always have those on, too. Rerolling 1's is fantastic for going over rough terrain, as these things are usually going just in a straight line. Put these on trukks, too. It gives them a S6 hit on ramming, which can actually result in a crucial pen in a pinch.

For deffcopters the twin linked rokkit launcha will be your bread and butter. For battlewagons it depends on what points you got left. Ignore the deffrolla and get the must have reinforced ram to handle dangerous terrain tests. I like to use planks for the extra charge range. Put at least one weapon on it so that weapon destroyed results don't get bumped up to immobilized results. Which weapons can depend on what is being transported and what you intend to do with the wagon before and after it delivers it's payload.

Loading it up with Big Shootas isn't a horrible idea- that's a good 12 shots off of it to support whatever squad is riding along.

Thanks, now for my war boss, is it best to stick em with boyz or put him on a bike?

For the boss: Both are good options, really. Here's my thoughts on the matter.

Biker Boss: Advantages: Speed. Lots of speed. He can jump across the field, get 3+ jink saves, and rush into the enemy. Just make sure he's not alone. When I run one, I tend to put him in a 4 man squad of nob bikers, and they tend to wreck most things they hit as long as it's not dedicated melee.

Disadvantages: Durability. You've only got a 4+ save in close combat. You do have the ability to get a 3+ jink, but close combat is where you want this guy. If he gets swarmed in close combat, he's very likely to go down as a 4+ save is only so-so.

Boyz boss: Advantages: Durability. The primary way I take a boss is in Mega Armor with Da Lukky Stikk. A 2+ rerollable save is fantastic. Just make sure you have another character or two to take any challenges of AP 2 melee weapons, and this guy will tank almost every hit like a boss (or warboss if you prefer ). AP 2 ranged can be the bane of your existence, but if he's got enough boyz around him, he can LOS those hits on a 2+. It sucks that we can't ever get an invulnerable save in close combat, but oh well, we're orks. And a 2+ rerollable is morkin' delicious as long as you pick the right targets in melee.

Disadvantages: Speed. He can't get anywhere fast unless you give him a transport, so ALWAYS give him a transport. Mega armor means he can't run, and a 6" move can only get you so far.

I take a biker boss with footslogging boyz.

The other advantage for a bike boss is that he is T6 which means any Str 10 attacks won't instant kill him or prevent FNP rolls.

I've played with bully boyz vs baneblade renegades. It was pretty fun. He stole ini but the voidshield helped a lot and he only managed to explode one trukk 1-st turn while the rest saved with cover and ramshackle. As he underestimated this factors, he moved the troops closer to midboard to claim objectives. Got charged 1-t turn by all 3 meganob squads and trukkboyz. Unfortunately, they overkilled spread out platoons so that they couldn't be locked in combat - even though i tried to multicharge as much as possible to lower enemy casualties. 2-d turn he thunderblitzed manz and some boyz - manz were ok, boyz got almost wiped, shot down another squad of manz with a baneblade cannon and lazguns but than the baneblade got demolished and he was pretty much down to his flyers and a few guyz here and there, so we decided to finish 2-d turn.

Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.

I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.

I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.

I'd just go for choppaboyz in trukks. They sometimes lack weight of attacks. It's also cheaper. Who could think but currently boyz tend to end up somewhat overpriced. No need to inflate their cost even more.

charz wrote:
Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.

I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.

I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.

Trukk boyz are very fragile and prone to failing morale tests given their low numbers. It's generally best to keep them cheap and cheerful by avoiding giving them upgrades besides the Nob with bosspole and power klaw. The trukk is so easy to wreck that they won't have much time to use it as a gunboat and even if it doesn't die, any penetrating hits will likely force them to snapshot since they only have Ld7.

Trukk boyz also work off on redundancy, at the very least you should have 3 squads. Defensively, the void shield generator is a good way to give them turn one protection before they rocket off to target units. I like to run even numbers so I can pair them off or work them in tandem with MANZ missiles as their limited numbers means that you need to stack the odds in your favour against enemy units. Teaming them up against enemies in this way helps mitigate overwatch casualties as well as neutralizing their main weakness of having Nobz being challenged out since they can only take one out of the fight if you have 2 trukk boyz units engaged.

Trukk upgrades wise, keep them cheap and simple as well, the only mandatory upgrade is the reinforced ram so they don't get immobilized.

 Grimskul wrote:

charz wrote:
Thanks I'm thinking of using the bike boss for now and using him as a spear head to the boyz, though I can't find any good tactics on trukk boyz.

I'm thinking of giving them rokkits while having one group of boyz be Melee the other shootas. If any one knows of good speed freak tactics let me know.

I'm looking to make a speed freaks list with a bunch of trukks and a wagon filled with boyz and a painboy.

Trukk boyz are very fragile and prone to failing morale tests given their low numbers. It's generally best to keep them cheap and cheerful by avoiding giving them upgrades besides the Nob with bosspole and power klaw. The trukk is so easy to wreck that they won't have much time to use it as a gunboat and even if it doesn't die, any penetrating hits will likely force them to snapshot since they only have Ld7.

Trukk boyz also work off on redundancy, at the very least you should have 3 squads. Defensively, the void shield generator is a good way to give them turn one protection before they rocket off to target units. I like to run even numbers so I can pair them off or work them in tandem with MANZ missiles as their limited numbers means that you need to stack the odds in your favour against enemy units. Teaming them up against enemies in this way helps mitigate overwatch casualties as well as neutralizing their main weakness of having Nobz being challenged out since they can only take one out of the fight if you have 2 trukk boyz units engaged.

Trukk upgrades wise, keep them cheap and simple as well, the only mandatory upgrade is the reinforced ram so they don't get immobilized.

Thank you for the tips, but what is MANZ

charz wrote:

Thank you for the tips, but what is MANZ

Mega Armored Nobz which people often call MANZ and putting them in a trukk to zoom up the field is referred to as a MANZ Missile.