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Blitzabommers can drop some Armorbane bombs on the tanks if your worried about them. Weakness of tanks is that if they are shooting at transports they can probably destroy the transport but its hard for them to follow up against the passengers that get out. MANz missiles will scare the gak out of those tanks as those trukks fly up the field and into his face. Deffkoptas can outflank to hit the tanks side and rear armor and are very good at playing the MSU game. A good benefit of Zzap guns is that every glance or pen they do auto shakens them in addition to any damage table rolls so its a bit easier for them to shut down their shooting from range.

Dreadknights can be handled by sending 2 units after them (one MANz, one being a unit with fodder like grots, boyz, whatever). The fodder unit nob/character challenges the Dreadknight and will get horribly murdered in CC. The splash over attacks kills fodder models because his attacks are going into that unit. The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.

 Vankraken wrote:
The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.

I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.

I've found regular Nobz are better against it, in that they can have more numbers so you can let it mulch 5 un-upgraded nobz and hope the rest will do some work with a couple of PK's.




@ Your Zzap gun comment, thats exactly why i was considering them! Stopping a tank from shooting is just as good as blowing it up IMO. Well almost.


My list so far is :

Warboss, Bike, PK, Lucky Stikk

10 x Tankbustas + Nob with BP and BigChoppa
Trukk with Ram/Rokkit

10 x Tankbustas + Nob with BP and BigChoppa
Trukk with Ram/Rokkit


Boyz x 11

Boyz x 11


Deffkoptas with Rokkits x 2

Deffkoptas with Rokkits x 2

Warbikers x 4 Warbiker + Nob, PK


3 x Zzap Guns, 2x Ammo Runt, 4 Extra Gretchin.





The plan is to ram the bikers, and the trukks full of TB's right down the enemies throat. The Deffkoptas will fly infront of the Trukks to give them cover, and then zip off to grab Objectives and go for side armour.
The Warboss Biker unit will take advantage of 3+ cover save from Turbo-boosting and the Lukky stick.
The Ork Boyz go forward and grab an objective,
The Zzap guns provide fire support.

I think its got a decent chance.

I'm never a fan of running more than 1 Deffkopta in a squad. The leadership checks after the first 2 wounds is too risky for me and they fall back 3d6 (if not off the table). Unfortunately, you only have 3 fast attacks without a second source. I think think points would be better spent else where.

They're super easy VP and FB though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicMan wrote:


I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK.

That's the exact reason you have to keep another character nearby.

 koooaei wrote:
They're super easy VP and FB though.

Outflank is an amazing USR.

The meganobs do come with their own sarge to take the challenge, but in 1000 pt game youre never realistically going to have more than 3 meganobs and a boss to throw at the DK.

Unfotunately he's able to kill them all before they even swing. Ive thought that big choppa relic might be worth taking, even if its not reliable.

I like having a warboss with the killchoppa for all MCs. Against dreadknights he needs a lot of shmucks to take the wounds for him though. So battlewagon boys could work. Other than that the only time I've fought them I had the tide and threw 80ish attacks and 10ish pk attacks at one and it died....

 MagicMan wrote:
I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.

Might I suggest meks? If DKs are something you will regularly go up against, then it's not a bad idea to take one as challenge fodder, and they only cost 15 points apiece. 25 if you want to give them a scorcha for some one-time use firepower before they get thrown in front of your important guys.

Something maybe like this?

Warboss: Bosspole, eavy armor, power klaw, and Kombi-scorcha

Boyz Squad: 9 boyz ('eavy armor optional to protect against explosions), 1 Boss nob with PK and Kombi-scorcha

Mek: Kombi-Scorcha

All in a trukk

This way, you dive into combat with the DK, have the Mek challenge it out, and all spillover hits the regular boys. Then, when I1 rolls around, you have 9 PK attacks to bring it down with. If you gave your Warboss DLS, you're hitting on 3s (If the DK is WS 4, that is), and you get to reroll your hits/wounds with the Warboss.

The scorchas are optional, and more of if you end up fighting against any horde. You now have three heavy flamers to hit your opponent with before you charge into his front lines, limiting overwatch, and evening the playing field in your favor. It might even do some damage against GK, and if your warboss isn't using MA, then you can use them as wall of death charge deterrent.

 MagicMan wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The MANz will unload a boat load of PK attacks that wound on 2s, ignore that 2+ and only have to contend with a 5+ or 4+ invuln save. Even if feared those melee attacks should rip that Dreadknight into tiny bits.

I've actually found MANZ to be terrible against a DK. The DK gets 4/5 attacks (cant remember) that swing before the MANZ, bypass their armour, and instant-death them. A MANZ missile will almost never get to swing, and even a large squad doesn't do well. Taking a Warboss or something to help also doesn't do too well, because the DK is a character (sigh, for some reason) and can challenge them, earning a nice Warlord VP.

MANz alone are bad against DKs but that's why I said use them with another unit. The fodder unit accepts or issues the challenge which forces the DK to attack that guy and the overkill splashes into his unit of boyz, grots, whatever. This leaves the MANz safe to swing away and rip that DK a new one. He can't kill the fodder unit's character and then direct his remaining attacks at the MANz because allocation attacks to multiple units it done before you swing and in a challenge all your attacks are directed towards the challenger.

Consider me schooled! Thats a good idea, from both of you, thanks.

The trick will be pulling off a charge with a unit of boyz and a unit of MANZ at the same time! Ill definitely try it out.


While i have the attention of some wise Warboss's, how would you tackle heavy armour like Leman Russes? Ive never fought them with Orks before.

While i have the attention of some wise Warboss's, how would you tackle heavy armour like Leman Russes? Ive never fought them with Orks before.

I just charge them with power klawed monsters. I've had gorkanauts and Morkanauts charge and kill whole squadrons. Basically any kind of power klawed guy is how I like to do it.

Klaws, MANz missiles, tankbustas, and lootas are all good ways of dealing with tanks. Make sure to give all but the lootas some transport.

Depends on the Russes. One set of russes is AV 10 in the back, while the other is AV 11. On the AV 10 russes (Regular pie plate ones, eradicators and, vanquishers if memory serves) then a squad of trukk boyz (or small stormboyz squad) can glance it to death fairly easy by spamming S4 hits to the back armor, you might not even need to rely on a power klaw. The AV 11 russes (Punishers, Demolishers, and Executioners if I remember right) will be tougher to crack. Meganobz missiles will tear them open, as well as anything with multiple power klaws/big choppas. I use a nob biker squad with 2 power klaws and 2 big choppas, and they will wreck the face off of any regular tank that comes their way.

Now, that's all covering melee, if you want to play the range game, deffkoptas with TL RL are great to sneak in back armor shots. If nothing else, your IG player will direct some firepower against single choppers if they look threatening enough with their S8 goodness, and allow the rest of your army to come in without as much firepower going against your main force.

Personally, I'm more melee than range, so I'm a bit biased to the "Hit it with a big thing!" philosophy. Remember, in melee, a tank is only as good as its back armor. And if it doesn't move away from your squad that's pounding on it, you will get free swings against it in your opponent's assault phase (provided he didn't spend a ton of shooting trying to get your boyz off of his shaken russ )

Dreadknights are really hard for orks to deal with. Whatever happens it'll probably make most of it's points back and tie up some of your CC units. Blobs of 19+ grots can help, as they can only make so many attacks, and you have a lot of wounds for cheap. With 30 grots and 3 Runtherds with grot-prods you can probably weather its attacks, but you'll have to keep them at max coherency to catch it.

at 1000 pts 4 leman russes is no joke.

You could try a couple of outflanking buggies/koptas.

Sometimes if I know my opponent I find kommandos to be pretty useful if I take 5 kommandos (2 have rokkits) and add a rokkit mek. Since the Mek is not an IC you can actually attach it to the kommandos through the mek rule and still infiltrate the lot. For 80pts you get an infiltrating unit with stealth and 3 rokkits. At that points its not hard to setup near the sides in cover.

Your opponent then has to deal with shooting down the orks who will likely have a 4+ cover save, maybe 3+, and can go to ground for another +1 or take 3 rokkits to the side/rear of something each turn. At 80 points you can take 2-3 of these pretty easily then have some more mobile boys to move up the field non trukks, or wagons, or whatever. You can also upgrade the unit further to make it more of a threat. You could give the mek a killsaw and upgrade a boy to a nob with powerklaw....this gets close to 145pts and not sure its worth it- I prefer to keep these guys cheap and ranged threatening/harassing.

Yeah you can buy 5 tankbustas for cheaper (65 pts). They have more rokkits (5 vs 3) and tankhunters, but they don't have a transport yet. Are starting at least 24" away- likely outside of firing range your turn 1, and will end up firing at front armor first. They also have a worse cover save, which if you get shot at with some S8 pie plates cover is what might save you. That said you could also buy both

Tankbustas x6 in a looted wagon with 3x rokkits is pretty decent, as long as you don't roll that result for the looted wagon that makes it rush forward...

If you stun/shake/weapon destroy something you can fire at the other tank unit. Its better to make it so a few tanks cannot fire for a turn or two than to maybe kill 1 and leave the rest untouched. Spread the Dakka around.

Tankbustas! All the Tankbustas! I mean, if you've got 2 or 3 squads of them, you're likely to at least get side-armour, which I think on Russes is, 12? Something enough Rokkits will easily deal with, especially with Tankhunter. And Tankhammers are fantastic in melee against tanks as well, clearly.

I like the naughts. There is a guard player here who fears them most appropriately for a reason.

Hey guys, Dark Eldar player here who thinks Blood Axes are cool. Considering adding a mercenary allied detachment for a bit of flavor.

What do you guys think of 30 shootas with a Painboy? Would hard armor be worth it? I'd use them to charge up the center of the table while the DE zoom up the flanks.

They'd make for a nice tough blob of a core. I mean, if there's anything Orks are good for, it's charging up the center of the table as a distraction.

'Eavy armour would probably be worth it if you have the points, though there's undoubtedly folks who would tell you to just take another 20 Boyz in a second squad for the price.

MHaruspex wrote:
Hey guys, Dark Eldar player here who thinks Blood Axes are cool. Considering adding a mercenary allied detachment for a bit of flavor.

What do you guys think of 30 shootas with a Painboy? Would hard armor be worth it? I'd use them to charge up the center of the table while the DE zoom up the flanks.

Armored boyz is the same as more boyz, generally. But since you have a painboy...would you rather have more boyz with fnp, or more boyz without fnp? I'd take the armor for a 350 point mini-star. it WILL get blown up, it's not a reall deathstar, but hopefully it will disrupt the enemy movement phase long enough for the dark eldar to pick up some maelstrom points.

If you want something to blob up the center of the board, 30 orks with a painboy is one way to do that. If you get the armor they'll be as tough as MEQ against AP5+ and tougher against AP3- for cheaper than tacticals. Just remember that their offensive value for that many points (11/ork, and more for the painboy) is pretty low. shootas are only really good against blobs of conscripts and passable against every other form of infantry, and the shoota hurts their melee capabilities.

Also props to you for considering blood axes. They're a fairly interesting ork subgroup that really needs some love.

Sounds good, I'll see if I can't pick up some used Boyz. Would make a fun painting project after doing all these Kabalites.

How does the following look?

Allied Detachment
Painboy + Bosspole: 55pts
Boyz Mob, 26x Shoota Boyz, 3x Big Shoota Boyz, Boss Nob + Shoota + Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armor: 376pts

431pts is really quite a lot though. gnome_idea_what, do you think I'd be better off dropping the Shootas and Big Shootas, and just rolling with Sluggas on each Ork while having them run each turn?

Appreciate the advice.

For a distraction and potentially midfield objective grabbers you will probably want the shootas and big shootas. Eavy armor is worth it do to the painboy as well. For anything less than S8 you get to pretend you are less shooty necrons. If you change to a CAD and grab some gretchin they are great for backfield objective holding and very easy to hide out of LoS. Then you get a second HQ slot for a warboss with a pk for S10 AP2 or a weirboy pairs well with large shoota boy mobs. If you get da jump they can be a serious distraction for the dark eldar. Blood axes are also know for using stormboyz and kommandos so they could fit with your force as well being either stupid fast or sneaky. If you want to slog it up the board skip the slugfa boyz and go with stormboyz. They are slightly cheaper and less durable sjncd the painboy can't keep up but they are more likely to make it to combat imo. Slugga boy squads have a hard time making to combat since they are slow. The stormboyz do not have that problem. They can easily get turn 2 charges and while they may kill a lot of themselves depending on what else is on the board your opponent may have to shoot either them or the dark eldar whereas they can almost guarantee the slugga boys take at least 3 turns to reach them. If you want objective holders go shoota boys with eavy armor, speed go stormboyz, sneaky infiltrating/pinpoint outflank go kommandos with snikrot and special weapons to suit your purpose.

I'm not sure about the shootas vs sluggas question, but it would help to get some general info on what point values this is for and what else is in the army. Honestly my brain gaks out when I have to evaluate range and melee viability (more complicated and subjective than other things, and less comparing numbers), so I'm not really the best person to ask. Lots of other people on this thread can give you better advice.

With 30 of them, armored and with a painboy I'd choose choppa/slugga. There is a good chance they'll make it across the board and be in assault range on turn 2 or 3. Even if there is only 10 left, armored choppas with painboy make a hard hitting melee unit.

So how does cover behind walkers work? I fell in love with my killa kanz as models and now I want a deff dread just because of how damn cool they look. If I were to sit that dread (or infantry, for that matter) behind the kanz, would I get a cover save? I'm always hearing conflicting things about using vehicles as cover.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
So how does cover behind walkers work? I fell in love with my killa kanz as models and now I want a deff dread just because of how damn cool they look. If I were to sit that dread (or infantry, for that matter) behind the kanz, would I get a cover save? I'm always hearing conflicting things about using vehicles as cover.

It depends on who is targeting them and their elevation with regards to how much the killa kan covers since you need at least 25% coverage in order to get a cover save. Generally speaking a Killa Kan in front of a deff dread would give it a cover save against any infantry sized models straight ahead of you. Against guys on the upper levels of buildings, it depends on the angle from which they can see you. Some larger vehicles may also be at a high enough elevation that you wouldn't receive cover but those are generally super-heavy sized. Ideally, you can use a laser pointer to emphasize TLOS but it's hit or miss depending on how agreeable your opponent is unfortunately.

On another note, I've had Snikrot and Kommandos built for a while now but I've never really gotten around to using them. I'm about to try out the burna battlewagon this Sunday but I've been thinking about using a Kommando heavy list to spice things up as alternative list to have a fluffy sneaky game against Genestealer Cults, what have your experiences with them been? What kind of army archetype (trukk rush, biker lists, dred mobs, footslogging like green tide, dakka lists) do they fit best in? Are they best taken as a spammed MSU unit with a couple of rokkits? Is Snikrot even worth taking?

I've run kommandos before, and unfortunately, have had to retire them due to my tournaments always being timed (No fun when your kommandos can only charge in the last turn of the game because you're out of time on turn 3).

There are three different ways I've been running them:

1: Minimum squad of Kommandos with two big shootas (or rokkit launchas if you prefer), infiltrating in some ruins to grab and sit on an objective. Have them go to ground every time your opponent shoots at them and they're getting a 2+ cover save. Give them a Nob with bosspole and Big Choppa for assault deterrent, and morale help if you need it.

2: Squad of Kommandos with Snikrot. These guys pop in wherever you want them (Typically the back lines) and can cause some havoc if your opponent loves to have artillery in the back. Have them come on though ruins/Cover, or else they will get blown off the table very easily. Remember that while Snikrot can chop up light infantry like a boss, you'll want a Power Klaw nob in there for a bosspole and some high S, low AP goodness. Think of Snikrot as more of a transport, able to get your boyz where you want, and he gives them shrouded on the first turn they come in, so that's a 2+ cover in ruins, 3+ cover in regular terrain, or just a 5+ cover if you HAVE to have them in the open.

3: Snikrot's red Skull Kommandoz formation. You have to take 4 kommando squads, and one has snikrot in it. You get to have the whole formation come in on one roll (multiple threat overload, anyone?), and they ALL get shrouded instead of stealth on the first turn they come in, as long as they didn't shoot anything. Now, this can become an incredibly expensive formation, but if you keep most of the squads at a min (4 Kommandos, Nob with Big Choppa and Bosspole, for example) The price isn't that bad.

Some tricks with this formation: If you don't have much cover, you can stick a small/cheaper squad of Kommandos in front of your more expensive ones to give them a 3+ cover save (5+ for shooting though models, and shrouded).

Don't give these kommandos big shootas or rokkit launchas unless you've got a really good plan. Shooting them on the first turn they come in will make your loose your shrouded, and you're an ork after all, odds are you won't hit what you're aiming at anyways. Shrouded is totally worth it.

If you do want to take special weapons, take burnas. They're crazy expensive, trust me, but you're not just paying for instantly hitting what's under the template, but you're also paying for the fact that it's on a kommando who can pop up right next to the enemy. If you catch your opponent with some clumped up troops, it can be well worth it.

You can use your less expensive squads as suicide squads to take enemy overwatch. Especially if they have a bunch of cover ignoring flamers.

Don't spread your small squads out too far apart unless you need to do some objective grabbing, or are up against something you know you can kill with just one squad (like a tank with AV 10 rear armor). In the end, Kommandos are just regular 6+ boys with a cooler name, move though cover, and the ability to terrify the enemy with popping up in their backfield. You have to win by numbers if you're hitting anything that can hit you back halfway decently.

Edit: As for what army they work best in? I would say if you're using the formation or just snikrot you'll want a fast army so you can pin them in on their deployment zone, that way they're sandwiched between your kommandos and main forces.

Is snikrot worth it? Yes. So much yes. If you want them to outflank, he gives them certainty. You don't roll where they end up, you choose, and you can do it on any table edge. So that's awesome. Just make sure the kommando unit is worth the 60 point "transport" and shrouded protection.

I am a fan of the snikrot formation, with one large group, and three MSU groups.

Sorry about the long post! Hope it helps, Grim!

The above post is great for kommando use. I just want to add one. I like using a maxed out red skull kommando formation with a green tide. This way you have 60 boys behind them and many more in front. Its really messed with some opponents to the point where they wont leave their deployment zone because they have so little space to move. Then when you bring the kommandos kn if there is space you can go on their edge and if not use any of the other 3 edges depending on situations.

The Orcurion lost to Eldar this week.

Eldar had 6 units of Scat Bikes, four Farseers on Bikes, Wraithknight, 3 Fliers in a formation, 3 Nightspinners in a formtstion and possibly some other junk. All for 2000 points!!

I just can't believe how cheap everything Eldar is. Two biggest issues was the triangular deployment zone which meant I had 6 units in reserves and psychic powers. So many Dead Orks.

MVP this game was Ghaz with his 2++ save. He and his boyz brought done the Wraithknight to a single wound by end of turn 5. Would have killed it sooner but it had Invisiblity for two whole turns.

Lost 12-18 but it wasn't even that close.