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Post by: thompie12
I was just wondering what you guys think of female Chaos Marines.
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Post by: Pipboy101
Evil boobies. hmmmmm..... There is alot of modelling possiblities but how do you overcome the armored boobies of doom that everyone wants to model on the power armor?
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Post by: thompie12
I dont know i think i will just use green stuff from Games Workshop
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Post by: Lorgar's_Blessed
I am reminded of the guy who modelled the female space marines of each original chapter... That ended in a crap storm of a thread IIRC. SOOOO, my advice is Slaanesh up some SoB and call them your female CSM. If not that, prepare for danger and a lack of easy converting. It's not easy to turn those regular CSM into females.
On a side note, why would you want female CSM or SM at all? I for one don't want women 7-8 feet tall and bigger than me around. Men are implied that bigger is better. Women... Not so much.
Also, I FEEL DIRTY. The puns in there gave me a heart attack.
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Post by: Pipboy101
You could always use the Slannesh Demonette or female wood elf heads for the marines. It would give you that female look without having to do much conversion for GS work. The power armor would cover most of the female curves that people like to model.
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
I'm strongly against female space marines but since they care chaos (they must be slaanesh though) I suppose if you have enough fluff you can pull it off.
Femmarines can only work modelling-wise if you dont do the LULBOOBS method of sculpting them, simply get marines and use female (or male elf, they look more feminine) heads.
I hate to encourage potential fluff-rape but its your army so do as you wish...
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Post by: Mistress of minis
What happens in the Eye....doesnt always stay in the Eye...
As mentioned, this could turn into a fluff-fest flame-tard-gasm sort of event- so I hope people stick to the modeling aspects and leave all the fluff 'what ifs and whyfores' elsewhere  GW doesnt have the IP to space boobs yet, so lets just enjoy this one facet until they hit us with a C&D 
thompie, the idea you have isnt a new one, its something alot of people have tried, and not many have done very well. It takes a termendous amount of work/effort- you can go to town with some green stuff on an existing CSM figure, but making an already bulky torso even bigger by putting boobs on it usually makes them look comical.
The only way I can really see this working, is with tons of conversion work, alot of partial deamonic sculpts with CSM/deamon hybrids sort of emphasizing slaneshi traits. Again, this is all stuff others have tried before, and not many have the time, patience, or skills to pull off the vision of what they want- so keep in mind it is doable- but its a pretty large project to do well if you plan on doing more than just one or two of them.
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Post by: Lorgar's_Blessed
The problem with Daemonettes with Power Armor is that it'll look like daemonettes trying to fight in power armor. Nothing else to say with that. Just shave the armor off the breast of a SoB, take off all the iconography, and sculpt on some cult symbols and more breasts. Cause we all know Slaanesh ain't happy with an even number of bewbs.
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Post by: Nurglitch
Not to mention that women who've undergone the Astartes process will just look like men. Seriously, have you seen any female body-builders?
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Post by: Lorgar's_Blessed
My first thought as well Nurglitch... Not to offend those women but scary stuff. 
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Post by: Shadowbrand
Make a tranny slanneshi marine.
PROFIT! 
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Post by: 1hadhq
Nice points so far...... 
I say ,they're all whiny and complaining gits, so CSM are the girls ... 
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
It all depends on the CSM group 1hadhq, like with the Regular Space Marines.
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Post by: thompie12
I like the idea of putting female heads on my CSM. Im not really slaanesh though (i think i will just go with Chaos Undivided)
And why i want to do it? i just like the idea of female CSM in my army it something different then men only
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Post by: Centurion
The only way I can see to do this is to completely sculpt your own torsos so that the finished product is a feminine looking torso that is the same size as a regular torso and not an over-sized torso with boobs sculpted on. of course you'll prolly have to re-sculpt the legs to make the new torsos fit right.
Centurion.
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Post by: thompie12
Cant i just use the normal torsos then?
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Post by: MacAttack
You could try something like a Slaanesh deamonette mixed with a posessed marine and make it the Asp. Champ of a unit of Noise Marines, or just a member in a possessed unit. As far as fluff goes, if it's just one or two models then they could easily be members of a weak Champion's 'Harem' who had more potential than the Champion him/her/itself, killing the champ and taking his/her/it's armour and weapons, with a blessing from slaanesh to boot.
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Post by: thompie12
That is indeed a good idea.
but what if i want her to be a member of a normal squad of CSM
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Post by: Fafnir
The armour would be too shapen/thick, with the helmets on, you wouldn't even be able to tell what gender a marine was, realistically.
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Post by: Bla_Ze
Maybe im hoping for too much.. but...
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Post by: Mastiff
If you can think it, you can do it. Everyone else's opinion is irrelevent.
While Slaaneshi may the obvious theme, it would be very interesting to a an all-female chapter that was denounced for the heresy of "perverting" (by the Imperium's standards) the geneseed by implanting it into females. The banished chapter could have hidden in the Eye of Terror, still coming out either for revenge, or to complete their original duty, a la Legion of the Damned.
Lots of possibilities there.
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Post by: RDizzle
I would start from scratch, you could make a very stringy, thin armature and make it very spiky and curved.
An alternative would be to sand down some guardians and slap on a SM back pack and female heads.
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Post by: Kazerkinelite
Women cant be marines....The Imperium seems to have more men than women anyways(they need the men to go die for the emperor...the woman are there to just breed for more man power...to get killed in the meat grinder)
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Post by: Mistress of minis
Kazerkinelite wrote:Women cant be marines....The Imperium seems to have more men than women anyways(they need the men to go die for the emperor...the woman are there to just breed for more man power...to get killed in the meat grinder)
Not a very relevant point for modeling, and kinda stupid in general 
This is a game of imagination, theres no harm in using it to make something different.
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Post by: Kazerkinelite
not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
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Post by: Bla_Ze
Kazerkinelite wrote:not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
Incorrect, the imperial guard has all female regiments, and mixed regiments. If these regiments were not as effective as their all male equivalents they would probably not exist.
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Post by: Sir Motor
make fallen sisiters of battle
that solve all problem
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Post by: Mistress of minis
Kazerkinelite wrote:not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
lol @ 'male superior', it comes across as more 'uneducated and closeted'. And since the Imperial Guard is imaginary- doubting you could survive a day in it just points to a lack of imagination.
But again- this is NOT the place for the fluff debate- feel free to hijack, er, start a thread in the proper forum on the topic if you reaally feel you need the vindication from the GW IP Marshals.
Now- the OP mentioned hes not all that into Slaaneshi stuff, which Chaos power would you want to be working with? Tzeentch could maybe do a witch/crone theme....
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Post by: CT GAMER
Bla_Ze wrote:Maybe im hoping for too much.. but...
So you want an army of 12 years old girls?!?
Danger! Danger! Danger!
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Post by: thompie12
Mastiff wrote:If you can think it, you can do it. Everyone else's opinion is irrelevent.
While Slaaneshi may the obvious theme, it would be very interesting to a an all-female chapter that was denounced for the heresy of "perverting" (by the Imperium's standards) the geneseed by implanting it into females. The banished chapter could have hidden in the Eye of Terror, still coming out either for revenge, or to complete their original duty, a la Legion of the Damned.
Lots of possibilities there.
I like this idea for sure.
And i think that im just going to try putting female heads on normal space marines(without green stuff).
First put the head on without glue to see if it looks good.
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Post by: CT GAMER
thompie12 wrote:Mastiff wrote:If you can think it, you can do it. Everyone else's opinion is irrelevent.
While Slaaneshi may the obvious theme, it would be very interesting to a an all-female chapter that was denounced for the heresy of "perverting" (by the Imperium's standards) the geneseed by implanting it into females. The banished chapter could have hidden in the Eye of Terror, still coming out either for revenge, or to complete their original duty, a la Legion of the Damned.
Lots of possibilities there.
I like this idea for sure.
And i think that im just going to try putting female heads on normal space marines(without green stuff).
Maybe the result of an experiment by Fabius Bile under contract to some Slaneshi Daemon Prince who wanted Bile to create a warband of Slaneshi marines altered to female form or fused with daemonettes...
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Post by: Lightning234
Maybe the result of an experiment by Fabius Bile under contract to some Slaneshi Daemon Prince who wanted Bile to create a warband of Slaneshi marines altered to female form or fused with daemonettes...
Now that is an interesting idea.
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Post by: thompie12
hmmm I think im just going for an all female chapter.
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Post by: CT GAMER
thompie12 wrote:hmmm I think im just going for an all female chapter.
Ok well good luck with that.
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Post by: Ouze
Kazerkinelite wrote:not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
For someone who attempted not to sound "male superior" by assuming you are better at something then half the living population just because you have a wang is a poor approach, indeed. The bar for what any female can or can't do is not necessarily capped at your level of expertise.
The IDF seems to be able to make it work, for starters. Plenty of women there doing something I personally could not do, and doing it well.
I think in an army themed at overwhelming any problem with more bodies (the IG), they'd hardly distinguish between men and women. Not sure why GWS hasn't long ago started mixing in females with the IG.
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Post by: physcosamatic
how about corrupted Sob?
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Post by: thompie12
physcosamatic wrote:how about corrupted Sob?
There are 2 reasons why i cant/dont want to buy any Sob 1 i dont like them 2 they dont sell them at my local hobby store And with an all female chapter i dont mean only to use that chapter i just want to make like 1 squad in that colors(and as female). Maybe an army of that chapter only is an idea for later.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
I have Female Thousand sons led by Male Sorcerers, Easiest modeling I've ever done.
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Post by: thompie12
What have you done actually?
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Exactally
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Post by: thompie12
OK seriously though how should i model my female CSM
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Post by: Bash the Bosh
Ouze wrote:Kazerkinelite wrote:not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
For someone who attempted not to sound "male superior" by assuming you are better at something then half the living population just because you have a wang is a poor approach, indeed. The bar for what any female can or can't do is not necessarily capped at your level of expertise.
The IDF seems to be able to make it work, for starters. Plenty of women there doing something I personally could not do, and doing it well.
I think in an army themed at overwhelming any problem with more bodies (the IG), they'd hardly distinguish between men and women. Not sure why GWS hasn't long ago started mixing in females with the IG.
I agree with Ouze, I don't understand why GW hasn't made more female minis for 40k other than SoB. As for Kazerkinelite, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes if you said that to some of the girls in my unit.....they're 4 ft tall, weigh 55kgs yet they can carry upto 70kgs of kit, and drag a 85kg Royal Marine in 35 degree Afghan heat. Now say all they're good for is breeding.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
thompie12 wrote:OK seriously though how should i model my female CSM
well, there are 2 simple ways
Option 1: Buy Sisters of Battle and either Paint them chaos or take CSM heads, accessories, etc on Sisters bodies. Termies will be more difficult, but then again, anyone expecting actual BREAST plates on a termie is expecting a bit to much.
Option 2: Use Actual CSM models and craft some Green-stuf bewbs. If you need assistance with this, either using a SM Powerarmor/ SoB Poweramor or a Male/Female (yeah, Female Incubi is a bit of an oxymoron) Incubi as template/example will def help.
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Post by: thompie12
ok thanks. i will just buy some sob (i dont know where but ill figure something out) and put some Csm stuff on them. ill post some pics as soon as im done
and for termie's i think i will just use female heads in terminator suits.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
I'm also a big fan of using SOB for female CSM, but awhile back I saw some pretty cool female CSM that were made using SM/CSM legs and Daemonette torsos...to make it look as good as it did, it wasn't an easy conversion - I remember that. Do a search through the P&M forum for Daemonette and CSM and see what you come up with. Should be in there somewhere.
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Post by: xedric
My Slaaneshi CSM army is still not done and the unit of 6 female noise marines with sonic blasters is still not done either. Old WIP shot of two slaanesh girls
I know its not the best job but I like them
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
And that was exactly what I was talking about. Great stuff, Xedric!
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Post by: StarGate
Ive seen a all Female Noise marine army before ( She used SOB and made all there multametla into sonic weapons she made them into mirco phones).
She had a Female Defiler( boobs and all) and a Crap load of deamonettes(6 squads of 12) and Demonettes on steeds too...
That was back when you could have a Pure Emperor Children army. But SOB make the best female chaos marine.
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Post by: zeronyne
Why would female CSMs automatically have large breasts? And why would the armor look any different? If you are gene-manipulated with extra organs that improve performance in battle, I imagine that large mammary glands would tend to shrink.
http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fawnia-mondey-female-bodybuilder.jpg
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Post by: Bla_Ze
You can't really count logic in to this case. Becuase the variables are too many.
1. Traditional "Space Marines" have the additional 19 "Organs".
If these females have identical transplants its impossible to say if any/enough female hormones are released from the biscopea or body for any female features to be left after the "marinenette" has undergone her transformation.
Maybe the body balances the other hormones with the "muscle building" ones, who knows.
2. CSM females could have any number of wacky experiments done too them, who can say whats right or wrong.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
There's always the possibility of one of the genetically engineered primarchs that is lost was female. In theory, since every space marines legion derived it's traits not from the Emperor but from the primarchs, since none of the traits that the Space marines possess are directly derived from enhanced levels of testosterone. (In reality, enhanced strength can be derived from an inability to process the protein myostatin, which the body uses to limit muscle growth.)
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
BaronIveagh wrote:There's always the possibility of one of the genetically engineered primarchs that is lost was female. In theory, since every space marines legion derived it's traits not from the Emperor but from the primarchs, since none of the traits that the Space marines possess are directly derived from enhanced levels of testosterone. (In reality, enhanced strength can be derived from an inability to process the protein myostatin, which the body uses to limit muscle growth.)
"The Primarchs were the twenty sons of the Emperor, born leaders of man and the template from which the Emperor would craft his Space Marine legions"
IDK how a son could be a female... but thats just me
The most likely of Female CSM would be Slaaneshi transgenders.
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Post by: Ouze
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
IDK how a son could be a female... but thats just me
What's wrong with just saying "a wizard did it!" - or whatever the grimdark equivalent thereof is? For a game that is based so heavily on using your imagination, man, there are a lot of people who are heavily invested in being dogmatically faithful to fluff which has been intentionally left vague in many areas, as stated by the developers, so you could fill in the gaps with your own ideas. That's why there are so many chapters, yet so few described. In a imaginary plastic army doll universe where no one has a problem accepting that the existence of aliens that can punch holes in tanks with their fists, or that there are undead zombie robots, or that the predominant race is a bunch of green-skinned soccer hooligans, it's a bridge to far to think that when a whole planet falls to Chaos, a single woman might pick up a lasgun and fight, and perhaps be gifted with power armor, and then terminator armor, or god knows what - that in chaos, their pretend magical powers cause the pretend biological implants to reject anyway, so they really shouldn't be a factor. As someone wiser then me once said, "Why so serious?"? Make up your own fluff.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:There's always the possibility of one of the genetically engineered primarchs that is lost was female. In theory, since every space marines legion derived it's traits not from the Emperor but from the primarchs, since none of the traits that the Space marines possess are directly derived from enhanced levels of testosterone. (In reality, enhanced strength can be derived from an inability to process the protein myostatin, which the body uses to limit muscle growth.)
"The Primarchs were the twenty sons of the Emperor, born leaders of man and the template from which the Emperor would craft his Space Marine legions"
IDK how a son could be a female... but thats just me
The most likely of Female CSM would be Slaaneshi transgenders.
On a genetic level, some of them were less like him then I am. This may be be a broad generalization due to the poor understanding of the Imperium after 10k years of further technological decay and the only ones remaining in the records being male.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Ouze wrote:
What's wrong with just saying "a wizard did it!"
BaronIveagh wrote:
On a genetic level, some of them were less like him then I am. This may be be a broad generalization due to the poor understanding of the Imperium after 10k years of further technological decay and the only ones remaining in the records being male.
I was more referring to the fact that the Primarch have been Labled as the 20 SONS of the Emprah.
Son being Male Child
Daughter being Female Child
Can a CSM be a female? By all means
Would the last remaining Primarch, that was stated to be a Son, actually be a Female, moreso on the side of chaos? Highly unlikely. (Impossible)
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Post by: Broken Loose
No.
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Post by: Mistress of minis
Sometimes I think the fluff-tards are too busy figuring out rules exploits to exercise thier imagination from the well worn path GW sets out for all of its sheep.
To say that the forces of chaos, could not, or would not use women for space marines is even more idiotic than the arguments against it for Imperial SM's.
Theyre Chaos....you know, all random and stuff. Things mutate in the Warp right? why would progenitor glands/gene seed be any different?
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Post by: thompie12
Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm also a big fan of using SOB for female CSM, but awhile back I saw some pretty cool female CSM that were made using SM/CSM legs and Daemonette torsos...to make it look as good as it did, it wasn't an easy conversion - I remember that. Do a search through the P&M forum for Daemonette and CSM and see what you come up with. Should be in there somewhere.
i bought some sob and csm today, maybe i could make the deamonettes too or something.
and i would like to paint them in an alternative chapter scheme, so if you got some idea's
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Post by: Mellon
Remember rule number one. The 40k universe runs on the Rule of Cool. If something makes for awesome stories or impressive models it will exist!
I agree with bove poster who complained about lack of female models. I have a few old Escher gangers from necromunda that I use as models for green-stuff-casting female heads. It's tricky but about one head in three is useable. I then apply those heads to pretty much any body I have around to create female models for our =I=munda/dark heresy gaming.
I have noticed that our cultural constructions around gender identifies a spread out body-language as being male, and a held together and compact body language as being female. This can be illustrated by repositioning female models legs at an angle that leaves the feet closer to each other and right under the body. Also try to utilize this (IMHO stupid) image of femininity by using arm positions that stay close to the body.
Bodies I use for females are for example Cadian troopers, where body shape is quite invisble under all the padding. I also use Dark Eldar Warriors and Eldar Guardians, since they are pretty slim and all in plastics. Some of them actually have female shapes with extra slim waists and boobs (wich says something about the pubertal ideas of GWs miniature designers, but that's another discussion) Just cut off any spikes, and change the head if you want an "imperial" look. Daemonettes are somewhat useful but have horrible heads and require some greenstuffing and cutting if you don't want the explicit slaanesh look.
There are a lot of metal models that works great for female military or civilian looks, but maybe not so much female spacemarines. Check out GWs specialist Games section for Necromunda and Mordheim gangs. As well as Howling Banshees, DE Wyches and the odd IC here and there. Don't overlook the WH fantasy range of models.
Back to the OP. I'd say SoB for minimum work. Add some Sisters of Sigmar and maybe use modified (dark)eldar for scout models. Use greenstuff or silicone molding to create bunches of female heads. If you are feeling adventurous, sculpt or modify a few curved body parts and cast copies of them. As long as you don't sell or spread them it is probably within the "fair use" of GWs copyright (this might depend on your country of residence though...)
It will take some serious work, but will probably make something awesome in the end.
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Post by: Dutch508
Kazerkinelite wrote:not to sound "male superior" but I dont think a women would survive a day in the Guard...I mean I dont even think I could.
hell....the men don't survive a day in the Guard.
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Post by: alarmingrick
Mistress of minis wrote:
"Sometimes I think the fluff-tards are too busy figuring out rules exploits to exercise thier imagination from the well worn path GW sets out for all of its sheep."
QFT!!!!
and i don't get why power/terminator has to be modeled with boobs? seriously?
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Mellon wrote:Remember rule number one. The 40k universe runs on the Rule of Cool. If something makes for awesome stories or impressive models it will exist!
And that's why we can't have female space marines.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Death By Monkeys wrote:And that was exactly what I was talking about. Great stuff, Xedric!
And it is exactly what i suggested to you.
make up your mind...
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Post by: SONS of ORAR
no no no no no!!!! astartes are ALWAYS male... loyal or chaos...
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Post by: thompie12
Wait you believe that little green men fight guys in blue green and red Power Suits, but you dont believe that SM can be woman?
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Post by: SONS of ORAR
SM cannot be women
Automatically Appended Next Post:
it can never be so... maybe sisters of battle that have turned traitor (this is very unlikely) but there are NO female Astartes!
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Post by: Bla_Ze
Theoretically its possible for anyone to become a space marine since the organ implantation can be done on whoever you want.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Bla_Ze wrote:Theoretically its possible for anyone to become a space marine since the organ implantation can be done on whoever you want.
Nope. It's keyed to male genotypes.
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Post by: thompie12
Just stop this neverending discussion i am making female CSM and if you think it is impossible, fine go ahead.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Then why bother asking for opinions if you're going to disregard them?
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Post by: thompie12
i wanted to know what was your opinion on them, not an never ending discussion about ether Sm can be female or not.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
SONS of ORAR wrote:SM cannot be women
Automatically Appended Next Post:
it can never be so... maybe sisters of battle that have turned traitor (this is very unlikely) but there are NO female Astartes!
Slaanesh has got some amazing powers. I bet S/He could turn ordinary male CSMs into female CSMs if S/He wanted to. And heck, Tzeentch ain't called the Lord of Change for nothing!
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Post by: Kanluwen
thompie12 wrote:i wanted to know what was your opinion on them, not an never ending discussion about ether Sm can be female or not.
Then the general opinion seems to be that Female Chaos(or Loyalist) Space Marines are a ridiculous idea and shouldn't be done.
Just like Chaos Tau.
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Post by: thompie12
For female loyalist i understand, with all the rules of the imperium. But Chaos space marines don't use the rules any more, and that gene seed can mutate just like humans can.
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Post by: Mistress of minis
Ya, its impossible to keep this topic on modeling, even when thats the intent. Like herding cats.
So, bottom line- theyre your figs- others dont have to like them- you do
I'd look through some of the other plastic kits for easy to use female heads, Ive seen some success with the high elf sprues.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:thompie12 wrote:i wanted to know what was your opinion on them, not an never ending discussion about ether Sm can be female or not.
Then the general opinion seems to be that Female Chaos(or Loyalist) Space Marines are a ridiculous idea and shouldn't be done.
Just like Chaos Tau.
General opinion is that GW is and has been price gouging us for years. We still buy thier stuff.
Doesnt have to make sense to you, to be a good idea and provide enjoyment for someone else.
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Post by: poipo32
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Option 2: Use Actual CSM models and craft some Green-stuf bewbs. If you need assistance with this, either using a SM Powerarmor/ SoB Poweramor or a Male/Female (yeah, Female Incubi is a bit of an oxymoron) Incubi as template/example will def help.
DO NOT sculpt greenstuff breast on the armor, it is simply ugly. The woman would need to have something S sized breast to need special super breasted armor, a power is already big enough.
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Post by: countchocula86
Not to sound "male superior" but girls have cooties!
Basically you have 2 options. Authentic female marines, and hyper sexual female marines.
For the more authentic approach, I think you'll mostly be concerned with head swapping to give a somewhat more feminine look.
For the hyper sexual approach, go for skimpy armor, and heavily armored boobage. Probably for chaos, I think this look would be more appropriate...plus...so much more fun!
Also, btw, this isnt 'female space marines' but 'female CHAOS space marines' and if the powers of chaos can twist thoughts, scatter baby primarchs, and mutate other creatures, then why the heck cant they make female creatures and put them in power armor? Why cant they have taken a baby primarch and warped its genetics?
Seriously, Orks being created from spores is all well and good, but female Chaos Space Marines causes a hubub? Jeebus
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
The point of Chaos is that its corrupting influence moves those under it away from humanity, and the order of natural law, and turns you monstrous, defying natural law.
It doesn't just go transform men into women. That's not corruption, you're as much a pure, order-filled human as you ever were. Chaos makes spines grow out of your arms, and your mouth turn into a fanged maw, and your hair fall out. It doesn't recreate the plotline from The Hot Chick with all of your chaos marines as Rob Schneider.
Slaanesh doesn't even turn you female, despite what everyone seems to think. Slaanesh turns you androgynous or hermaphroditic (daemonettes aren't so female without their loincloths on). This means a male space marine becomes more feminine, but it won't make them female.
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Post by: Cannerus_The_Unbearable
@Kan: So you never see a topic where Painting and Modeling turns to Fluff Nitpicking?
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Mistress of minis wrote:Sometimes I think the fluff-tards[ are too busy figuring out rules exploits to exercise thier imagination from the well worn path GW sets out for all of its sheep.
Does anyone else see the irony in this?
Modifying Female Incubi, Archon/Drachon. and many other Dark eldar for that matter (of the female varity) with some CSM bits of Greenstuff should fit you well with your attempted Chick's of Chaos list.
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Post by: Lint
So in "Storm of Iron" the Irown Warriors asp champ was an undivided csm with strong Khorne leanings. He captured a female guard officer and made her clean his armour every night. Slowly she began to hear the armour speaking to her, telling her to wear it, and have her revenge. Filling her head with thoughts of bloodshed, and vengance, the armour (which was indeed SM power armour, for a space marine) won out over the female officer and talked her into putting it on. When she did, the armour contorted both her body, and itself, so that they fit eachother perfectly, and she then went on to become a berzerker, and skulls, blood, etc. followed.
So there you have an official explanation, in the fluff, for a female csm. Granted, she's more of a khornate cultist in power armour, but IMHO it's a better explanation than a female primarch, or a lost legion of female sm, or *god forbid* a wacky scheme by the alpha legion to make a bunch of seductress/anime, infiltrator double Delicious fembots.
Also, from the above example, don't get cornered by only a slaanesh theme.
(Nurgle) Women are some nasty creatures, you'd be surprised.
They can also be very conniving manipulators ala Tzeentch.
Also don't forget women make some pretty crazy berzerkers, especially if the blood is flowing
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
All the more reason they never should have dropped the Lost and the Damned. They're a lot more interesting than Chaos Marines, honestly.
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Post by: Mistress of minis
I think Lints example (good catch btw- Id forgotten that one!) is precisely the right mindset. It can happen, its not common, but its a big galaxy- that seems to be full of narrow minds You all act like theres a big book of allowable mutations...
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
There is one actually... its called Liber Chaotica!
Kidding aside, I think the major confusion is between Female CSM or Female "Traitor Guard"/ Chaos Sisters of Battle (in the sense that they are women in powerarmor, NOT Evil brides of the emperor/nuns with guns, but nothings truly stopping you from making Chaos Sororitas as ALL are suseptable to Chaos)
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
It's not a matter of possibility; it's never a matter of possibility. The warp can turn an army of space marines into ham sandwiches, who still go around fighting enemies of the Imperium, with pastrami guns and heavy bolognas. To say that the warp can turn space marine into women is to miss the point; it can do anything.
What matter is what it does, not what it can do. What is consistent with the setting, and with the flavor of each faction. To have a chapter of space marines be randomly "gender-bended" while going through the warp is silly, like the WarHam chapter is silly, and if you're not actually making a joke army then it's a very bad explanation.
I'm no fan of Dr. Thunder's fluff for the Black Widows, but it fit the setting a lot better (and had a lot more effort put behind it) than "random mutations" does.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:@Kan: So you never see a topic where Painting and Modeling turns to Fluff Nitpicking?
Do you even read the OP, or do you just try hard to look silly?
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Post by: ZacktheChaosChild
Dont use green stuff from GW. Totally overpriced.
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Post by: Menelker
You could always try something like this
1
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Post by: Makov
God, more female marines?
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Post by: BaronIveagh
... is it a daemonette of khorne, slaanesh or nurgle???
Daemon Princess, anyone?
Remember the cursed foundings had a lot of strange stuff too. If they had marines who walked around ON FIRE without burning, femmarines seems rather mild...
@makov: They're out to get you... they'll give your Ultramarines cooties!
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Post by: A Carmine FTW
I like it. But to see if it really works someone needs to try it and post pics. That guys pics up there is a good start.
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Post by: DarkAngelsRK
I don't think you need to model evil boobies. I think there would be enough room in the power armor as it is. Just give them female faces (Eldar?).
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Post by: Mastiff
To the OP:
I should have just posted this handy chart of acceptable mythos combinations in 40k:
Other acceptable combos include space marine + vikings, emo monks, slugs, robots, samurai, cowboys, ferrets, snot, bears, indians, cucumbers, transgendered dominatrixeseses, mongols, celts and yogurt.
But no wimmen, That's silly.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
It' s the one combo that seems to cause fansboys to just freak. I've never understood why...
I will laugh my ass off if the 40k MMO has Space Marines with the 'female' gender option.
Further: yes, evil bosoms are unnecessary, though you'll have to greenstuff the legs. Women have wider hips, after all.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BaronIveagh wrote:It' s the one combo that seems to cause fansboys to just freak. I've never understood why...
I will laugh my ass off if the 40k MMO has Space Marines with the 'female' gender option.
Further: yes, evil bosoms are unnecessary, though you'll have to greenstuff the legs. Women have wider hips, after all.
Because since day one it's the *one* thing not possible, and has remained that way ever since?
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:It' s the one combo that seems to cause fansboys to just freak. I've never understood why...
I will laugh my ass off if the 40k MMO has Space Marines with the 'female' gender option.
Further: yes, evil bosoms are unnecessary, though you'll have to greenstuff the legs. Women have wider hips, after all.
Because since day one it's the *one* thing not possible, and has remained that way ever since?
Except it wasn't because GW released Female Space Marines back in the day. Despite being stamped and packaged as space marines (some apologists claim that this was a mistake by GW. In reality, this was GW unloading surplus from the Adventurers line) there are still people who insist that they don't exist.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
BaronIveagh wrote:Remember the cursed foundings had a lot of strange stuff too. If they had marines who walked around ON FIRE without burning, femmarines seems rather mild...
"Man can believe the impossible, but man can never believe the improbable."
It' s the one combo that seems to cause fansboys to just freak. I've never understood why...
I will laugh my ass off if the 40k MMO has Space Marines with the 'female' gender option.
As long as I can get my sexy ork gurlz I'll be happy!
Further: yes, evil bosoms are unnecessary, though you'll have to greenstuff the legs. Women have wider hips, after all.
You'll also have to file them down about 1/4 of the way so they look 5'7". Automatically Appended Next Post: BaronIveagh wrote:(some apologists claim that this was a mistake by GW. In reality, this was GW unloading surplus from the Adventurers line)
Since these "apologists" also claim that they were repackaged as "female adventurers" once the mistake was made, how are they wrong again?
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Post by: BaronIveagh
LOL Orky, for the same reason that they're Eldar, not Melnibonéans. Further, they continued to package them as space marines after they stopped selling the Adventurers line.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
I don't get your reference, but I'll take your word for it.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
When GW lost the license to produce minis based on the Elric saga, the Melnibonéans got recycled as elves and early Eldar.
It's one of the reasons that Chaos has that eight pointed star. GW did a lot of recycling old molds at that point.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Ah, I knew the star was Moorcock's. I didn't know they were tied so closely, though.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I just looked through the entire Melnibonean line--and don't recognize a single one that even remotely ended up "recycled" as Elves or Eldar.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
GW likes to sweep things like that and female space marines under the rug.
I still recall the first time I had this argument with someone, I was actually holding one of the two female space marines (which was stamped on the slotta base 'space marine') which ended in my opponent claiming 'There is No Spoon."
Do the guys in the helmets look familiar to anyone else?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Still waiting for particular models...
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Post by: BaronIveagh
See post above.
Put calvelryman 18's axe arm on 16's body and give him a new horse and you have Dolear Silverhelm.
Of course, all of these are Jes Goodwin sculpts.
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Post by: Kanluwen
So your evidence is an elf with an axe means it's "reusing old molds"?
By that logic, an Imperial Guardsman with a shotgun is reusing the Judge Dredd molds.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Yeah, if the only difference between the gaurdsman and dread was that the gaurdsman had judge hershy's arm and was sitting on the bit cit judges bike, yes. They flat out sold them as high elves for a while without changing the molds at all.
From the Dedication of the 1st Ed Warhammer, 2nd Printing: 'Dedicated to Michael Moorcock, whose fault it all is!'
16 (Elric) loses Stormbringer for one of the axes and a different shield, and gets a very slight helmet re sculpt (the face inside the helmet is even the same). Instant high elf.
However, we're getting seriously OT here.
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Post by: physcosamatic
in the grim darkness of the 40th millennium there is only index astartes sexism
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Post by: Ugluk Mo'Dakka
Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
Backpack w. kitty ornament and fairy wings :
Familiar, pikachu style ( the bane of loyalists ) :
It's a LOL anyhow.
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Post by: Pika_power
Following thread. This marine looks interesting. I think I'll claim I'm interested in the familiar. The breasts have nothing to do with it.
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Post by: Ugluk Mo'Dakka
Pika_power wrote:Following thread. This marine looks interesting. I think I'll claim I'm interested in the familiar. The breasts have nothing to do with it.
Yeah.......
Anyway, I just hate when threads go to pointless discussions. So it's unfluffy. So what.
Dude just wanted a concept and never underestimate the warping power of Chaos.
One day you're a guy, then Tzeench comes along and says it's time for a change.
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Post by: Pika_power
If a serious view is wanted, I will provide.
Slannesh gave some of his followers Chaos Spawn wangs. I think Slannesh would be happy enough put on some boobs.
Secondly, it's a new experience for a marine, and that's what Slanneshi live for. I can imagine a Noise Marine going to Fabius and requesting a sex change. If we can do it nowadays, Fabius can do it in 40,000 years.
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Post by: Hyenajoe
@ Thompie12: Female Chaos Marines is a great idea, whatever some naysayers may object! Who cares if it's "possible"or not? 40k isn't possible anyway! The most important point is that THERE IS MATERIAL FOR A STYLISH ARMY!!!! You probably had some concept in mind when posting this thread, so now, please, SHOW US SOMETHING!!!
By the way, I'm not fond of sculpting boobs on a breastplate, just modify the breastplate to make it a little more prominent. And for the head, there are enough female heads available (not talking of all those ridiculous ponytails CSMs seems to like so much).
So now, do it!!!
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Post by: Cyporiean
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
>.> How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?
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Post by: Ugluk Mo'Dakka
Cyporiean wrote:Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?
It's power armor. It can do anything.
As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?
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Post by: SilverMK2
There are some really good femal marine models hidden on Dakka somewhere, if I remember the name of the person who posted them, I will post some links to them.
There was also another set of fluff (possibly by the same user) who had some justification for self sustaining female marine populations (which was actually pretty cool and interesting) where the females were altered by a Mr F. Bile to grow the extra organs (or organs which do the same things) from birth by manipulating their DNA. These genes were then made dominant so that all their children were female with the same extra organs, etc etc until the whole population could eventually be female marines.
They were geneticaly programmed to take on the looks of the native population (such as skin colour etc) with each generation, and to develop to the local ideal of beauty. They remained mostly dormant, perhaps even going several generations without actively knowing their purpose, and then at some trigger signal, they would take up arms and kick bottom to prepare the way for a chaos invasion.
Specialised power armour etc would be dropped down to them (as they were obviously not as huge as normal marines but would be normal human sized) , as well as weapons etc.
Over the course and after the invasion, they would be scooped up by their commanding sisters and properly armed and armoured etc.
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Post by: Cyporiean
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:
Cyporiean wrote:
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?
It's power armor. It can do anything.
As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?
Generally no, bigger is more painful.
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Post by: DarkAngelsRK
Now that I really think about this, I don't really see the point in female Space Marines, but if that's what you want to do, I would model the boobies so they look like armor, not just like there's an opening in her armor where they can just hang out. That was kinda awkward to say....
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Post by: primeministersinister
I think the main thing to get is the head. Boobs on the model make no sense in my head. That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.
I says go for it.
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Post by: Mellon
primeministersinister wrote:That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.
Check out the marine scouts... now that's some well hung studs. *licks lips*
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
primeministersinister wrote:That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.
actually, they all wear huge cups/ cod pieces as it stands... its not as if they have chick thighs (pick up a space marine and look how thin the leg gets between the boot and "waist piece" and you'll see how much extra "room" they have. Actually, a fun thing to do is take the Chaos Chest piece with the Upward arrow on the belt buckle, clip it off, and re-glue it upsidedown, then with tiny paint add your profanity!
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Post by: Aramoro
Cyporiean wrote:Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:
Cyporiean wrote:
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?
It's power armor. It can do anything.
As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?
Generally no, bigger is more painful.
In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium back pain.
Aramoro
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Post by: thompie12
im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.
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Post by: Lint
thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.
Word.
I'm looking forward to seeing your finished product. Have you given any thought to their chaos allegiance? Slaanesh just seems too beardy, I really like the idea of female khorne followers.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
btw, to make life easier, don't use the GW Bonesaw thing to cut metal (or anyother oversized blade). I will probably make things harder then easier. If you do plan on removing arms for tentacles, or removing Imperium-esque portions of the models (which I reccomend), you will need a steady hand and a good dremel. Good dremal workmanship can be extremely useful for metal conversions. Also, if you want to cheat... http://cgi.ebay.com/Freebooter-CHA001-Chaos-Sorceress-Female-Wizard-New_W0QQitemZ350311082789QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item51902aeb25 Most of the Freebooter stuff works great for Female Chaos. Just throw some power-armor and bolters here and there, and pluck them out and put them on Circular bases and you've got yourself some Wimminz who follow Chaos!
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Post by: thompie12
I am going to paint them in black legion colors.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
Is this pic supposed to support the "for" or the "against" camp?
Please no...
Bottom line is we have five pages and nothing fromthe OP as far as actual modelling.
The proof is going to be in the pudding as they say, so its time to put up or shut up on this.
Post some pics when you have actually built something.
Talk is cheap...
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Cyporiean wrote:Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:
Cyporiean wrote:
Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :
How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?
It's power armor. It can do anything.
As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?
Generally no, bigger is more painful.
Power armor. Now with handwavium sports bra. (Seriously, guys, the 'breast plate' is over done.)
Female marines is one thing. the oversized greenstuff boobs are another. It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape. Less risk of being shot in the tits, too.
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Post by: Pika_power
Q. What's the point of being a female marine, when males are significantly stronger, etc?
A. Seduction.
Q. What's the most seducing aspect they can be given?
A. Boobs.
Thus the impractical chest plate is there for a reason.
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Post by: Daemon-Archon Ren
Even tho the OP stated he didnt want anymore about Female SM/CSM justification this kinda goes with modeling so I will point this out as well...
SM/CSM were modified to be as battle potent as possible (aka multi-hearts lungs etc)
You would think that IF anyone wanted to make a Female Marine, they would straight up remove the Breasts entirely... and all things considered, unless Marines are Unics, a Female would be more sutible for combat as, to be brutally honest, a penis (and its respective testes) actually is more of a hinderance for combat then a vagina would be. If muscles were augmented properly (which one would assume the would be) women of the imperium may be a more effective weapon then men. However, all things considered, it would make more sense to have Marines be Genderless, as this would eliminate hormonal factors entirely, and would create a dar better supersoldier.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Even tho the OP stated he didnt want anymore about Female SM/CSM justification this kinda goes with modeling so I will point this out as well...
SM/CSM were modified to be as battle potent as possible (aka multi-hearts lungs etc)
You would think that IF anyone wanted to make a Female Marine, they would straight up remove the Breasts entirely... and all things considered, unless Marines are Unics, a Female would be more sutible for combat as, to be brutally honest, a penis (and its respective testes) actually is more of a hinderance for combat then a vagina would be. If muscles were augmented properly (which one would assume the would be) women of the imperium may be a more effective weapon then men. However, all things considered, it would make more sense to have Marines be Genderless, as this would eliminate hormonal factors entirely, and would create a dar better supersoldier.
Eh, the problem is that testosterone tends to make people more aggressive (and yes, woman have it too, just as men have trace amounts of estrogen. It's the proportion that varies) less aggressive Space Marines would be a bad thing, imho. Particularly for khorne.
BTW: Pika: please walk down to your local gym and loudly declare that near where hte female body builders are working out. I think you may be surprised.
"I'll show YOU weak!" - Caitlin Fairchild to Pitt, Original Gen 13 mini series, moments before kicking him in the balls.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.
thompie12 wrote:I was just wondering what you guys think of female Chaos Marines.
Maybe you should start the new thread. You can rember to title it "Everybody Tell Me You Like My Army", if that's all you wanted from this one.
BaronIveagh wrote:Female marines is one thing. the oversized greenstuff boobs are another.
That's exactly the problem; they never are. 
It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape.
Why would a woman retain a noticeably different body shape after gaining a foot and a half of height and 400 pounds of muscle and bone?
I mean, if you wanted them to look more realistic, you would probably need to fix the space marine models up a little in either case. After that point though, I don't think there would be any difference you could notice at that kind of scale.
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Post by: Pika_power
Yes, yes. I'm well aware that females are able to be strong, but it's a fact that males are physically stronger. Check the top players of every sport. All male, and there is a separate female competition because women have weaker bodies in general.
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Post by: thompie12
Orkeosaurus wrote:thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.
thompie12 wrote:I was just wondering what you guys think of female Chaos Marines.
Maybe you should start the new thread. You can rember to title it "Everybody Tell Me You Like My Army", if that's all you wanted from this one.
i wanted to know what you think of it (all this is an neverending yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. discussion) And i want to know HOW to do it not if i should do it. I am past the part of thinking if i should do it.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Orkeosaurus wrote:
It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape.
Why would a woman retain a noticeably different body shape after gaining a foot and a half of height and 400 pounds of muscle and bone?
I mean, if you wanted them to look more realistic, you would probably need to fix the space marine models up a little in either case. After that point though, I don't think there would be any difference you could notice at that kind of scale.
Because the underlying bone structure is still different. If you make a woman ten feet tall, she's still not going to be a man. Load baring structures are different. Over all growth patterns are different. Probably still have a tendency toward lean muscle mass rather then bulk. You can make one as large and strong as a man, but she's still not going to look like one.
@Thomie - It's an interesting idea and I'd like to see it when it comes out.
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Post by: primeministersinister
As far a modeling goes, I think you should try and streamline the armour and try to hint at curves around the hips. Maybe make the groin area into more of a v shape like on female action figures.
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Post by: thompie12
 i finished 1. (I know it isn't very sharp but my digital camera is pretty old i hope it is still good though)
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Post by: Solorg
First off, good for you! Who cares what anyone thinks? If you have a cool idea, DO IT!
Second, please please find someone with a better camera! Your art deserves to be seen! Your pics are well done, but as you said, your camera is modest. White background, good idea. If a friend has a better camera for close-ups, get him to take some shots and post these, too!
Excelsior!
Solorg
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Post by: thompie12
I took my parents' camera and took a picture
and this one is sharper.
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Post by: CT GAMER
thompie12 wrote: i finished 1.
(I know it isn't very sharp but my digital camera is pretty old i hope it is still good though)
I like this.
Iwould suggets doing some headswaps on some of them to have horned helmeted heads ( or add plastic horns to to the SOB that already have helmets), or use some plastic caemonette heads onsome.
Also little things to chasify them would be to carefully cut the clip off soe of the bolters and replace with ammo belts hanging down like some of the actual CSM have...
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Post by: thompie12
I'm just going to cut off the helmets of the helmeted sob's and put csm heads on them.
Because they do not look like space marine helmets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will post pictures of the entire completed squad when i have finished them.
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Post by: DarkAngelsRK
primeministersinister wrote:I think the main thing to get is the head. Boobs on the model make no sense in my head. That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.
I says go for it.
Hmmm... You may be right. I think that the chest plate should be modeled a little broader, maybe, but not with boobies. Sorry I keep changing my mind.
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Post by: SONS of ORAR
Read 'Dead Sky Black Sun' by Graham McNeill that gives you a good insight into the making of CSM, well Iron Warriors anyway. I do not doubt that the CSM who follow Slanesh could become very feminine.. But not actually becoming female... Automatically Appended Next Post: But tbh the stuff you've done is quite good though more like traitor sisters of battle rather than CSM... an idea which I quite like... and seem plausible... keep it up... I thought you were going to try and mutilate some SM and give them breasts :S but no, you did this and I like!
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
BaronIveagh wrote:Because the underlying bone structure is still different. If you make a woman ten feet tall, she's still not going to be a man. Load baring structures are different. Over all growth patterns are different. Probably still have a tendency toward lean muscle mass rather then bulk. You can make one as large and strong as a man, but she's still not going to look like one.
If any of you were wondering why I hate female space marines, this is it. If someone ever made a thread in which someone's female space marines were space marines, I really wouldn't mind them. But they never are. Because no one wants female space marines, they want conventionally built (but just as strong as a 500 lb man you guise srsly!), sexually attractive, feminine supersoldiers. They want enlarged hips and greenstuffed breasts, they want them to stand in a "feminine" pose, they want them to universally worship Slaanesh, they want a female Primarch who has been secretely banished for being a woman, and it's never really about simply having females inducted into space marine ranks. As Pika said, women are not as strong as men. Female powerlifters are significantly weaker than their male counterparts. Female sports leagues are kept seperate from male leagues primarily because of their weaker physiology. There are women who are much stronger than the average male but no one average is being considered here. Now why, may you ask, are women weaker? They don't have the muscle mass necessary to equal men. And you don't even have to look between the sexes for this, you can simply look at weight classes within many sporting contests. More muscle - more weight - is what makes you strong. It is possible to gain a lot of muscle without gaining as much functional strength as you could have, but aesthetic bodybuilding isn't coming into play with supersoldiers any more than it would with high-level sporting events. Now this doesn't have to be a problem for a female space marine initiate; half the point of the space marines is that they have extreme muscle growth, in addition to extreme skeletal growth, the presense of a dozen extra organs, and so forth. This is what allows them to be as strong as they are; they aren't bulky because they have balloons in their arms to make them look scary, they're bulky because their bulk is what gives them their strength, and without the bulk they would be significantly weaker. If they could have been made with greater functional strength per square inch of muscle they would have been. For a female to remain sexually dimorphic when made into a space marine would render her with at most half the upper body strength, a third less lower body strength, less height, less running ability, less lung capacity; she would never make the grade as a space marine. As any other soldier in the Imperium, sure, but not a soldier that there is one of for every planet the Imperium holds, a soldier that has so much emphasis placed on strength and speed during their creation that extensive surgery and engineering is used to enhance them beyond human levels, and a soldier who is - by default - not female in the first place. So to sumrise, yes, a woman made to be as strong as a male space marine would look very much like a male space marine, facial features largely excepted. There is no other way that she could procure the strength needed to match them. She is not a "woman who is 10 feet tall", she is space marine, with space marine skeletal structure, space marine muscle mass, and space marine implants. But no one really wants female space marines, do they? (Pic related: It's what a female olympic weightlifter looks like.)  Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah, concerning the model, I think it looks pretty good. I agree with Orar on it looking more like a renegade sister than a female marine, but I'm sure you're all tired of hearing how I think this would be an improvement in concept.
The detailing on the shoulderpads fit is very nicely with the ornate look of the sister models, and the backpack adds a subtle but noticable feature of the chaos marines that helps to reaffirm their status as traitors. The Black Legion color scheme suits them too.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Jang Mi-Ran, I'm guessing. Interesting choice. I'll see your olympic weight lifter and raise you a four times strongest woman on earth and holder of the Guinness world record for both genders for rolling up frying pans with her bare hands.
Aneta Florczyk
Image selected for comparison with guys who look like space marines, and can lift similar amounts.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Aneta Florczyk
Snatch: 95 kg
Clean and Jerk: 120 kg
Total: 215 kg
Jang Mi-Ran
Snatch: 140 kg
Clean and Jerk: 186 kg
Total: 326 kg
Hossein Rezazadeh (male winner from heavist bracket, 2008 summer olympics)
Snatch: 212 kg
Clean and Jerk: 263 kg
Total: 475 kg
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Post by: DarkHound
Orkeosaurus wrote:just about the only arguement that's made sense on this thread so far.
QFT.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Aneta Florczyk
Squat 207.5 kg.
Benchpress: 100 kg.
Deadlift: 213 kg
Total: 507. 5 kg. (slightly more then 1k pounds)
World's Strongest Man Winner in 2009: Žydrūnas Savickas
* Squat 425.5 kg
* Bench press 285.5 kg
* Deadlift 407.5 kg
* Total 1090 kg (Slightly more then one ton imperial)
Oh, yeah, he looks like space marine material...
Out of the entire crowd of the strongest, Ryan Kennelly (bench pressed over 1k pounds) is the only one built like a space marine. Most power lifters tend to have a sumo like build.
So, granted, she's half as strong. And weighs less then half as much.
20018
Post by: Hyenajoe
thompie12 wrote: i finished 1.
(I know it isn't very sharp but my digital camera is pretty old i hope it is still good though)
Well, that's good job, perhaps you should greenstuff some arrows to replace the fleur de lys. For the heads I agree with CT GAMER, horns on the helmets and perhaps plastic daemonette heads for squad leaders.
Go on, it's stylish!
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Post by: SilverMK2
If you want to keep the female shape and size, you can always say that their muscles are just much denser than normal SM muscles, giving them the same strength in less bulk. Edit: Oh, and I found the female marines thread I was talking about earlier with all the fluff and conversions for Doctor Thunders female marines.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
I wonder how Doc is these days?
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
BaronIveagh wrote:So, granted, she's half as strong. And weighs less then half as much.
Because muscle mass is what gives strength; that's exactly what I've been saying. Yes there are diminishing returns past a certain weight (and exponential returns past a certain weight) but it's always a positive correlation.
Trying to find the weightlifter who looks "the most like a space marine" isn't really the point of this exercise (although no woman can bench anything near what Kennelly can, so what's the point of bringing him up?) The point is that the most accomplished weightlifters have huge amounts of muscle on their torsos, that those most accomplished in bench pressing have huge amounts of pectoral, arm, and back muscle, and specialists in other forms of strength training have large amounts of muscle in the place in their body where it is most relevant, and that none of these people are women and when you look solely among women the most accomplished are still heavily muscled in whatever area requires the most use by them.
But say we do pretend Ryan Kennelly is a space marine; how does Florczyk's 220 lb bench press keep her in the running here? It's a quarter of what Kennelly can do.
SilverMK2 wrote:If you want to keep the female shape and size, you can always say that their muscles are just much denser than normal SM muscles, giving them the same strength in less bulk.
Why not use this special super muscle on every space marine? In fact, why not use it on the female space marines, and then still make them as bulky as a male space marine, so now they can be three times as strong? The Imperium doesn't care if they look "feminine".
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Orkeosaurus wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:So, granted, she's half as strong. And weighs less then half as much.
Because muscle mass is what gives strength; that's exactly what I've been saying. Yes there are diminishing returns past a certain weight (and exponential returns past a certain weight) but it's always a positive correlation.
Trying to find the weightlifter who looks "the most like a space marine" isn't really the point of this exercise (although no woman can bench anything near what Kennelly can, so what's the point of bringing him up?) The point is that the most accomplished weightlifters have huge amounts of muscle on their torsos, that those most accomplished in bench pressing have huge amounts of pectoral, arm, and back muscle, and specialists in other forms of strength training have large amounts of muscle in the place in their body where it is most relevant, and that none of these people are women and when you look solely among women the most accomplished are still heavily muscled in whatever area requires the most use by them.
But say we do pretend Ryan Kennelly is a space marine; how does Florczyk's 220 lb bench press keep her in the running here? It's a quarter of what Kennelly can do.
SilverMK2 wrote:If you want to keep the female shape and size, you can always say that their muscles are just much denser than normal SM muscles, giving them the same strength in less bulk.
Why not use this special super muscle on every space marine? In fact, why not use it on the female space marines, and then still make them as bulky as a male space marine, so now they can be three times as strong? The Imperium doesn't care if they look "feminine".
Orky, I might point out that canon space marines would have to be strong out of all proportion to their size anyway. (Primarchs impossibly so. Rogal Dorn crosses a room and connects with a blow faster then the Space marines standing there can track it. If the description of him is right, he'd weigh over 1500 pounds. For him to have that sort of acceleration, he would probably be able to pick up and throw a Baneblade. His muscles are not our muscles.)
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Primarchs are not the focus of the thread, and there is very little we can necessarily deduce of space marines from their consideration (they frequently display abilities as far beyond those of a space marine as a space marine's are to a human, and I think it's been said as much in writing somewhere), but even if space marine muscle is far, far stronger than human muscle (my assumption would be that it is to a significant degree, at least) that only stresses the importance of the muscle being present in large enough quantities for all space marines, no matter their sex.
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Post by: Zid
Simply put.... ew. Female chaos marines... are we making renegade sisters or something? I guess its an interesting idea, but like female orcs, its an idea I think best left unexplored...
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Post by: BaronIveagh
I dunno, Orky, it still seems to me like you're confusing type's I and II muscle fibers.
(Type I are the fibers that give you long distance endurance, and tend to be smaller. Type II are the ones for short bursts of intense activity and give body builders their bulk)
While being big is impressive, Type I are more important to soldiers. Super or otherwise.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
But women don't have more Type 1 muscle. Men are pretty consistently better at long distance running. Women are merely equal(ish) in that regard, and rather lacking in Type 2. The space marine's role as shock troops also puts them as needing Type 2 muscle more than a regular soldier would, they are often sprinting, jumping, ducking, and fighting enemies in close combat.
The central issue is that space marines are never inferior troops. A space marine would not be made with as significant of a weakness as having 2/3 the short-burst strength of a normal space marine, not with the huge investment being made into their training, their strength-enhancing modification, their powered armor, their bolters and ammo, their other grab bag of implants, their transports and fleets, etc.
But, if I may ask, "why not?" Why not modify their female initiates to be as strong (in every way) as the males, with all the muscle mass that entails? They have no reason to do anything but outfit them with as powerful a body as they can. If they wanted space marines to have less muscle mass they would simply have made the male space marines hold to this form, but they obviously felt that to have them built as they are was best for their role.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Orkeosaurus wrote:But women don't have more Type 1 muscle. Men are pretty consistently better at long distance running. Women are merely equal(ish) in that regard, and rather lacking in Type 2. The space marine's role as shock troops also puts them as needing Type 2 muscle more than a regular soldier would, they are often sprinting, jumping, ducking, and fighting enemies in close combat.
The central issue is that space marines are never inferior troops. A space marine would not be made with as significant of a weakness as having 2/3 the short-burst strength of a normal space marine, not with the huge investment being made into their training, their strength-enhancing modification, their powered armor, their bolters and ammo, their other grab bag of implants, their transports and fleets, etc.
But, if I may ask, "why not?" Why not modify their female initiates to be as strong (in every way) as the males, with all the muscle mass that entails? They have no reason to do anything but outfit them with as powerful a body as they can. If they wanted space marines to have less muscle mass they would simply have made the male space marines hold to this form, but they obviously felt that to have them built as they are was best for their role.
Except that space marines were not originally meant to be a rapid strike force. Remember that they were originally designed to be conquering legions, some of whom specialized in siege engineering, which is a very protracted sort of combat that favors endurance over brute strength. Your examples above are through the lens of the current era in 40k, not the Great Crusade (when Land raiders were common enough to be used by the Imperial Army).
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
But males don't have any less endurance. If Olympic marathon results are a measure, they're still slightly better than females, and more importantly, much better in other areas.
I also assumed that these space marines would have been created after the great crusade, in which case their modern role is what would be considered for their viability.
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Post by: Kazerkinelite
"Infantry might be a little harder than most people realize. If a girl could "hang" then I wouldn't have a problem serving with them. But honestly, knowing what I know from having served for eight years in it, I don't think that that is going to happen.
Infantry can be grueling and I've seen strong men break. In fact, they all break at some point, it's the getting back up thing and continuing that sets them apart. I could see a woman get to that point of breaking, but I don't see her getting back up."
-Yahoo answers on why women aren't soldiers.
Women don't have the mental toughness of a man. If I am correct the process of becoming a space marine is a painful process and only the toughest even make it(and nobody bring up the point that women have babies....that's way different than becoming a space marine). Now as far as creativity goes, go for it, no one can tell you how to make your army but as far as fluff goes...women as a space marine(or Guard).....nope just don't see it...
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Post by: whitedragon
How did you fit the shoulder pads on that Female CSM. I love it.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Kazerkinelite wrote:"Infantry might be a little harder than most people realize. If a girl could "hang" then I wouldn't have a problem serving with them. But honestly, knowing what I know from having served for eight years in it, I don't think that that is going to happen.
Infantry can be grueling and I've seen strong men break. In fact, they all break at some point, it's the getting back up thing and continuing that sets them apart. I could see a woman get to that point of breaking, but I don't see her getting back up."
-Yahoo answers on why women aren't soldiers.
Women don't have the mental toughness of a man. If I am correct the process of becoming a space marine is a painful process and only the toughest even make it(and nobody bring up the point that women have babies....that's way different than becoming a space marine). Now as far as creativity goes, go for it, no one can tell you how to make your army but as far as fluff goes...women as a space marine(or Guard).....nope just don't see it...
Please explain Jennie Hodgers (aka Albert Cashier) then. Surely, if women break in combat, she would not have survived forty battles under Grant, including his Vicksburg campaign. she would have fled screaming, instead of on being taken being taken prisoner, overpowering her guard and escaping to return to combat duty.
Also, please feel free to let Sgt Leigh Ann Hester know she should have broken rather then be awarded her silver star for close combat, or Major Philippa Tattersall doesn't deserve her Green Beret, if you really feel that way.
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Post by: CrazyThang
To sum up: Female C/SM have not happened in the 10k+ years C/SM have been around. As far as we know. Can he make whatever the hell he wants to? Sure why not? I may just make those sandwich marines. As long as you have a decent explanation (and I don't mean like a novel, even a paragraph is good) that fits in the universe without being totally out there why can you not just do it? Female chaos, when the gods can do pretty much whatever they want, seem almost likely. Oh and don't give me the whole "But its a perversion of humanity when the gods blah blah blah". Maybe Slaanesh/Tzeentch/whathaveyou decided to jerk some people around one dy by making them female, just for funzies. Fiction is just that, untrue. SM are pretty darn near impossible anyways so its not a huge stretch to envision female ones.
Oh a good way to end any argument 'bout stuff like this: Space Orks? Oh yeah, they are essentially a fungus that reproduces through spores but they are sentient and may have been genetically created as a survivor race thousands or more years ago. They also speak about as well as your average drunk englishman. WTF?!
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Post by: primeministersinister
Can we stop the fluff argument?
That's not the point here.
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Post by: CrazyThang
Which is why I said he can do w/e the hell he wants
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
BaronIveagh wrote:Please explain Jennie Hodgers (aka Albert Cashier) then. Surely, if women break in combat, she would not have survived forty battles under Grant, including his Vicksburg campaign. she would have fled screaming, instead of on being taken being taken prisoner, overpowering her guard and escaping to return to combat duty.
Also, please feel free to let Sgt Leigh Ann Hester know she should have broken rather then be awarded her silver star for close combat, or Major Philippa Tattersall doesn't deserve her Green Beret, if you really feel that way.
I think from a psychological standpoint I think I'd be more worried about the initiates being twelves years old! CrazyThang wrote:Oh and don't give me the whole "But its a perversion of humanity when the gods blah blah blah".
I was saying pretty much the opposite, actually; turning male chaos marines into female chaos marines is just really lame, as a "curse" or "gift" or anything, really. I mean, turning them into androgynous snake-people is up Slaanesh's alley, and turning a chaos lord who gets too cocky into a helpless little girl is probably in line with Tzeentch's sense of humor, but just making them into equally powerful female versions of themself is... "so what?". They're the dark gods of chaos, they're not supposed to be going around just doing really mundane stuff. "Bwhaha! You have failed me for the last time, Lord Nelfarious, and now you will pay the price! Watch as your precious european features become... ASIAN!" Oh a good way to end any argument 'bout stuff like this: Space Orks? Oh yeah, they are essentially a fungus that reproduces through spores but they are sentient and may have been genetically created as a survivor race thousands or more years ago. They also speak about as well as your average drunk englishman. WTF?!
Orks speek rite, stoopid, da oomies iz wot speeks rong.
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Post by: CrazyThang
Well lameness (word?) aside, it probably wouldn't happen but it is kind of a shoddy argument because... well a couple reasons. I have no idea how a fictional chaos god thinks and also maybe... I honestly don't know. Maybe you can see where I'm coming from with that but I guess I'm trying to say not everything has to have 5 heads, ooze pus and organs, (can't think of a khorne one), or have like one breast and a bird leg. Just sayin' sometimes [chaos god] gets bored and just wants to mess with people. Your example is awesome btw
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Hehe. A legion of 12 year old girls wearing horned helmets that are way too big for them would be funny.
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Post by: CrazyThang
Funny or... something to give you nightmares as they tear into your lines, ripping your men apart with chain-axes as they scream "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!" in high-pitched voices?
Also I would cry if they beat me. Oh wait I'm Eldar, little girls totally can't beat Eldar.... like all the time...
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Once the little girls hit Eldar lines they won't be able to tell friend from foe!
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Post by: CrazyThang
Because of our superior tactics right?
also any more pics?
EDIT for clarification: of your models, not 12 year old girls.
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Post by: DarkAngelsRK
In truth, it isn't possible for there to be female Space Marines, is it?
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
CrazyThang wrote:also any more pics?
EDIT for clarification: of your models, not 12 year old girls.
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Post by: JOHIRA
That conversion is much more effective than I thought it would be, although I wonder if those shoulder pads aren't going to seriously limit your posing options.
As for the background arguments, all I'll say is this: IMHO one of the worst aspects of this hobby is how readily people will try to control what another person chooses to do with their extremely expensive toy soldiers.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
If you have something to say then please, say it. Don't be shy. Tell the person - or people - you think are embodying the "worst aspects of the hobby" that you feel this way about them, and put passive-aggressive insults behind you.
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Post by: thompie12
whitedragon wrote:How did you fit the shoulder pads on that Female CSM. I love it.
I cut the original shoulder pads, and used greenstuff to get the shoulderpads on.
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Post by: Kazerkinelite
BaronIveagh wrote:Kazerkinelite wrote:"Infantry might be a little harder than most people realize. If a girl could "hang" then I wouldn't have a problem serving with them. But honestly, knowing what I know from having served for eight years in it, I don't think that that is going to happen.
Infantry can be grueling and I've seen strong men break. In fact, they all break at some point, it's the getting back up thing and continuing that sets them apart. I could see a woman get to that point of breaking, but I don't see her getting back up."
-Yahoo answers on why women aren't soldiers.
Women don't have the mental toughness of a man. If I am correct the process of becoming a space marine is a painful process and only the toughest even make it(and nobody bring up the point that women have babies....that's way different than becoming a space marine). Now as far as creativity goes, go for it, no one can tell you how to make your army but as far as fluff goes...women as a space marine(or Guard).....nope just don't see it...
Please explain Jennie Hodgers (aka Albert Cashier) then. Surely, if women break in combat, she would not have survived forty battles under Grant, including his Vicksburg campaign. she would have fled screaming, instead of on being taken being taken prisoner, overpowering her guard and escaping to return to combat duty.
Also, please feel free to let Sgt Leigh Ann Hester know she should have broken rather then be awarded her silver star for close combat, or Major Philippa Tattersall doesn't deserve her Green Beret, if you really feel that way.
3 women who did something noteworthy...big deal...for everyone of them there's been hundreds of men who have done the same thing.and plus Jennie Hodges lived as man and recognized herself as a man...not a women. And like I said I don't care what people do with their models, anyone can do what they want.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Kazerkinelite wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:Kazerkinelite wrote:"Infantry might be a little harder than most people realize. If a girl could "hang" then I wouldn't have a problem serving with them. But honestly, knowing what I know from having served for eight years in it, I don't think that that is going to happen.
Infantry can be grueling and I've seen strong men break. In fact, they all break at some point, it's the getting back up thing and continuing that sets them apart. I could see a woman get to that point of breaking, but I don't see her getting back up."
-Yahoo answers on why women aren't soldiers.
Women don't have the mental toughness of a man. If I am correct the process of becoming a space marine is a painful process and only the toughest even make it(and nobody bring up the point that women have babies....that's way different than becoming a space marine). Now as far as creativity goes, go for it, no one can tell you how to make your army but as far as fluff goes...women as a space marine(or Guard).....nope just don't see it...
Please explain Jennie Hodgers (aka Albert Cashier) then. Surely, if women break in combat, she would not have survived forty battles under Grant, including his Vicksburg campaign. she would have fled screaming, instead of on being taken being taken prisoner, overpowering her guard and escaping to return to combat duty.
Also, please feel free to let Sgt Leigh Ann Hester know she should have broken rather then be awarded her silver star for close combat, or Major Philippa Tattersall doesn't deserve her Green Beret, if you really feel that way.
3 women who did something noteworthy...big deal...for everyone of them there's been hundreds of men who have done the same thing.and plus Jennie Hodges lived as man and recognized herself as a man...not a women. And like I said I don't care what people do with their models, anyone can do what they want.
I have been being polite on this issue until now. (and I really don't care about what other people do with their minis either)
I've seen both men and women die for their country. And while I'm sure that hundreds of men have died for every woman, they all gave their lives. Every time I hear some moron tell me they weren't good soldiers, I think of this Lt I knew down in Brazil who told me the same thing. A week later he got himself and half his men killed in an ambush planned and executed by the women of the village he had been on his way to burn.
So endeth the lesson.
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Post by: ShadowCrescents
I would like to point out to Kazerkinelite that Black Library has a book that combines males and females into one cohesive unit for the Impy Guard. Not too sure of the name of this particular book for the Cain series, but it was two units that were joined together because of being almost destroyed.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Perhaps one reason that there are "many men" for every well known woman is that men have historically outnumbered women in combat roles for many hundreds if not thousands of years.
Proportionally, women who have excelled in combat possibly outnumber men
And as for breaking points, all people have different levels of stress at which they cannot recover. Just look at how many 'Nam vets are off their rockers, or how many WWI soldiers suffered from shell shock. I don't think the breaking point of women differs that much from the breaking point of men, to be honest with you.
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Post by: Mellon
I read something clever written by a guy who had worked for the brittish Special Air Service. His job was to shoot people, most of the time these were arabs with guns. He had a very important rule: "Shoot the women first". The reasoning was this: A woman that is allowed to be part of a military/violent activity must be exceptionally skilled at what she is doing, because those activities are culturally considered "mens work". So in a room full of (soon-to-be-)hostiles, any women are, on average, way more dangerous than any men.
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Post by: SilverMK2
I have to say that Doc Thunder's fluff and army did get me thinking about creating my own female CSM and after seeing this thread, I think I might actually create a squad or two following his fluff when I get some more green stuff.
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Post by: Mastiff
DarkAngelsRK wrote: In truth, it isn't possible for there to be female Space Marines, is it?
In truth, it isn't possible for there to be vampire Space Marines, is it?
In truth, it isn't possible for there to be werewolf Space Marines, is it?
In truth, it isn't possible for there to be undead Space Marines, is it?
In truth, it isn't possible for there to be Space Marines, is it?
Just wanted to clarify. For all the logic being applied here, this is pseudo-science based on the fantasy world developed by hippies in the eighties as a way to kill some time between bong hits. The fact that a world-wide corporation now owns the intellectual property doesn't make any of the science more logical. Any time they have a reason to throw something in the game they think will be cool, they add to the fluff.
We're allowed and encouraged to do the same.
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Post by: SONS of ORAR
That’s because "Nam vets" killed many innocent civilians (mainly women and children) in cold blood and saw some unbelievably horrid things... That would haunt any normal person for the rest of your life and put you "off your rocker"
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Post by: BaronIveagh
SONS of ORAR wrote:That’s because "Nam vets" killed many innocent civilians (mainly women and children) in cold blood and saw some unbelievably horrid things... That would haunt any normal person for the rest of your life and put you "off your rocker"
You think that the US holds a patent on immoral wars and horror in combat? Her Majesty's government did, after all, fight a war to keep another country from curtailing Her Majesty's opium trade.
Tell me, has England truly forgotten the Fields of Flanders? Does the horror of Verdun no longer stir in the English breast?
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Post by: Mellon
BaronIveagh wrote:SONS of ORAR wrote:That’s because "Nam vets" killed many innocent civilians (mainly women and children) in cold blood and saw some unbelievably horrid things... That would haunt any normal person for the rest of your life and put you "off your rocker"
You think that the US holds a patent on immoral wars and horror in combat? Her Majesty's government did, after all, fight a war to keep another country from curtailing Her Majesty's opium trade.
Tell me, has England truly forgotten the Fields of Flanders? Does the horror of Verdun no longer stir in the English breast?
I think the brits are still occupying some foreign countries where valiant freedom fighters keep up against the boot of opression. Or maybe they were just religious fanatics and terrorists that deserves to be dominated by an imperium. I'm having a hard time telling the difference.
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Post by: ShadowCrescents
SONS of ORAR wrote:That’s because "Nam vets" killed many innocent civilians (mainly women and children) in cold blood and saw some unbelievably horrid things... That would haunt any normal person for the rest of your life and put you "off your rocker"
I have a few questions about the content of this particular statement.
One: Were you there to witness these "innocent civilians" get slaughtered in cold blood? True there were some civilians that were outright murdered in Viet Nam, but NOT all of these people were innocent. I served with guys that were IN Viet Nam and said they saw women AND children pick up AK-47's and begin shooting at them. Some of the children even blew G.I.'s up while trying to shine their shoes. Read the book that details Carlos Hathcock's career as a Marine Corps Sniper.
Two: What year were you born? If it was as late as 1973, you probably only heard one side of the stories. Viet Nam vets were not liked even in the early 80's. In order to know something fully, you need to know ALL sides of every story.
Three: Have you ever served with some of the finest men and women in the world by doing something that is bigger than yourself? If you did at least two years in the military, and got out with an HONORABLE discharge, then you might have an idea of what I am talking about. To those that do not have a clue as to what I am reffering to, allow me to educate you. The people that serve in ANY military sacrifice multitudes of things while we are in so that people that live in free societies can have that freedom to talk smack, blame who they want, point the proverbial finger, etc. I guess what I am trying to say is: Know what you are talking about before you open your mouth.
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Post by: Mastiff
From his profile:
SONS of ORAR: age 17.
173
Post by: Shaman
Thats why you keep the age bracket empty kiddies.
Also joining the army seems to be about cleaning as much as it is about shooting.
Lazy civvie 2 cents.
Also moar pics OP.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Just to clear up the 'Nam comments, I was referring to the fact that some very strong men went into Vietnam, and many came back seriously changed from what they saw, heard, or otherwise experienced.
There is no doubting that war can do horrible things to a persons mind and I was in no way trying to suggest that the reason that so many people were changed for the worse by that particular war was because of the reports from some areas of "murder of women and children" etc. As I mentioned in my post, I also compared them to another largescale effect; shell shock from WWI which turned many strong willed people.
I am not quite sure why SoO particularly decided to pick up on 'Nam over my other example, or how what he said related to the men/women debate at hand. My post was related to the fact that in any period of combat, people will experience things that will test them mentally and emotionally and as far as I am concerned, men and women are roughly equal in mental and emotional strength, assuming they are all there of their own choice.
My comments were designed to show that men are not completely immune from the horrors of war, or even close to that, as some people seem to be suggesting they are.
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Post by: Hyenajoe
Hum, do you guys think that the painting and modelling section is the right place for this kind of discussion?
Basically this is a thread from a guy who'd like to make female CSM's conversions, it's amazing to see how far a thead can drift.
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Post by: thompie12
It was a painting and modeling thread but it ran out to this.
BTW I am still busy painting my female CSM.
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Post by: Flippa
Female Chaos Marines demand SNU SNU NOW!!!
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Hyenajoe wrote:it's amazing to see how far a thread can drift.
Eh, it stirs up the whole women in combat hornets nest. Personally, I view it like gays in the military. Frankly, a 7.62 NATO doesn't care if it was fired by man or woman, and a grenade is just as deadly if thrown by a homosexual.
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Post by: Klona
Just to make a point, there has never been a good war. As has been reiterated time and again in this thread, war involves killing and destruction. If you want to understand even a small portion of war, look at the images from war correspondents. I personally have found this quote to be a good way to describe the whole affair
"War happens inside a man...and that is why, in a certain sense, you and your sons from war will be forever strangers. If, by the miracle of art and genius, in later years two or three among them can open their hearts and the right words come, then perhaps we shall know a little of what it was like-and we shall know then that all the present speakers and writers hardly touched the story"
-This was written by Eric Sevareid, in the spring of 1945
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Post by: ShadowCrescents
I agree that this is a thread for discussing female space marines. I just had to set someone straight about that particular event in history. I am a veteran and will ALWAYS stand up for anyone that deserves it, especially a fellow veteran. I myself would like to see more of the custom things done to make them females space marines. I know of one chapter a guy made up and they are called Black Widows chapter. I believe they are Chaos undivided. I also agree that female space marines need SNU SNU, especially if they are from the Slaanesh god.
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Post by: lindsay40k
SilverMK2 wrote:Perhaps one reason that there are "many men" for every well known woman is that men have historically outnumbered women in combat roles for many hundreds if not thousands of years.
Proportionally, women who have excelled in combat possibly outnumber men
And as for breaking points, all people have different levels of stress at which they cannot recover. Just look at how many 'Nam vets are off their rockers, or how many WWI soldiers suffered from shell shock. I don't think the breaking point of women differs that much from the breaking point of men, to be honest with you.
Calgar's sanity may have survived Behemoth, Kraken, and countless wars with Chaos and Orks, but I'd like to see him give birth to twins without ending up with a permanent distant stare
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Post by: BaronIveagh
lindsay40k wrote:
Calgar's sanity may have survived Behemoth, Kraken, and countless wars with Chaos and Orks, but I'd like to see him give birth to twins without ending up with a permanent distant stare
Depends if we let Graham McNeill write it. If we do, Calgar will give birth to dectuplets, each one a fully grown space marine, with ease. He will then Out Engineer Scotty, Be a better Doc then Bones, more logical then Spock, and sweep Kirk off his feet.
(And for those who don't get it, look up the term Mary Sue)
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Post by: OoieGoie
Just a note. When you say "make SM girls as SLANESHI"... Those girls arnt really "girls"... If you know what I mean. *wink* Unless you're into that sort of thing?
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Post by: thompie12
yay i painted them all 
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Post by: Mastiff
Excellent, glad to see you making great progress. Any chance of closer pics?
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Post by: brother_zach
To the OP, good stuff, glad to see progress, I would love to see more!
To the mess, I think its funny that I looked at this thread a few days ago, then had my internet go out for about 8 days. When I come back, we were still aruging about the idea fluff-wise. Not to pick an argument, I'm just saying if this man wants to buy minis and slap breasts and long hair on them, let him go for it. Who knows, he might bring some technique or idea back that we MIGHT be able to use.
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Post by: Frazzled
Hyenajoe wrote:Hum, do you guys think that the painting and modelling section is the right place for this kind of discussion?
Basically this is a thread from a guy who'd like to make female CSM's conversions, it's amazing to see how far a thead can drift.
Modquisition on.
The above poster speaks the wisdom of the ages. modeling and painting forums are to discuss you know MODELING AND PAINTING. Fluff should only be discussed in relation to the work. This thread has gone off the deep end and needs to tack back to the MODELING AND PAINTING topic. NOW.
Thank you for your bidness.
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Post by: Jihallah
Orkeosaurus wrote:The point of Chaos is that its corrupting influence moves those under it away from humanity, and the order of natural law, and turns you monstrous, defying natural law.
It doesn't just go transform men into women. That's not corruption, you're as much a pure, order-filled human as you ever were. Chaos makes spines grow out of your arms, and your mouth turn into a fanged maw, and your hair fall out. It doesn't recreate the plotline from The Hot Chick with all of your chaos marines as Rob Schneider.
Agreed. Which is why simply plonking a female head onto a CSM body isn't the best idea imo. Daemonette heads would be the way, but for variety, greenstuffing some mutations onto the heads would be best, both fluff-wise, aesthetic wise, and you still keep your female marine army (why you would want to idk but I'm not going to explore that). A bunch of marines with all the random warpings of chaos and pretty heads is kinda silly imo. But if you warp them up good and proper, that would fit the fluff, and look kinda cool if done right- kinda horrible if done wrong though, so would put a fair damn bit of effort into such a project.
Save some effort and don't do every single marinette without a helmet- 4-5 in each squad of 10 is sufficient to get the idea across. And i agree with the group saying "power armour is big enough to hold bewbs, no need to GS bewbs on"
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Post by: Mastiff
sigh.
Why is it that some artists can only draw the face of someone they want to sleep with?
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Post by: Solorg
Mastiff wrote:sigh.
Why is it that some artists can only draw the face of someone they want to sleep with?
Let's face it, the more you think about it, the easier it is to draw!
Nyce
Solorg
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Post by: Callum
Female CSM = Dominatrix??? That might not be a bad thing if your into that kind of thing...
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Post by: EmperorsChampion
Well from what ive seen I like the mock up female chaos marines, not so much of the sisters of battle though, seems like they are SOB with marine shoulder pads. Other than that, I would enjoy having some female marines to make the fluff masters angry at me I might mock up a BT female marine, I saw one done when there was a guy who made one female marine of every chapter, that was well done. Anyways good luck for whomever is actually going forth and doing it!
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Post by: SilverMK2
@EC: That would be Doc Thunder.
And I agree that at the moment they are just SoB with shoulder pads and backpacks.
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Post by: Bramnero
Just convert some SoB.
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Post by: Mastiff
Bramnero wrote:Just convert some SoB.
He... did.
Did you not look at any of the OP's posts?
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Post by: InquisitorBob
Callum wrote: Female CSM = Dominatrix??? That might not be a bad thing if your into that kind of thing...
No that's female dark eldar.
Just look at how they dress. o_O
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Post by: thompie12
its just some converted SOB.
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Post by: Malivictus
why don't you Cross over the demonetts with chaos warriors head swaps and go from there..change out the weapon arms also file them down near the biceps and then for the chest use Khorn warriors there chest peace come in 2 like the space marine's and that way all you need to do is file down the front then add a small peace of Green stuff.
then file away the khorn markings if that's Not your God and replace them with the ones from your God...
Just a idea when I get time I will give it a try and let you know how hard easy it is..
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Post by: landraider
For Female Space Marines you could make it fit the lore(fluff) this way:
Emperor creates 20 male primarchs.
When there scattered throughout the galaxy, some such as sang, magnus have mutations.
Slaanesh mutated one primarch female to cause dissention, to make a lever more easily exploited in the heresy (you could say tzeetch did the same with magnus, and gave him/her a tip off)
The reason girl space marines don't work is because all primarchs (so the geneseed) had XY and XX is incompatiable.
Then either A. The emperor's 'daughter' falls to chaos or B. she's exiled but still fights for the emperor.
For CSM they can always have been changed by slaanesh, or fabius bile could have played a practical joke on them.
Or if you don't like chance mutations another explenation is:
The Ruler of a deamon world has control over it and people on it.
Slaanesh has female and male followers. Through a fluke, one gains control over a deamon world.
World Eaters ask to stay there and she agries, then the night before they launch there attack, she turns them into feminine women and molds there armor to fit.
There's lots of ways you can match the fluff.
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Post by: CrazyThang
landraider wrote:For Female Space Marines you could make it fit the lore(fluff) this way:
Emperor creates 20 male primarchs.
When there scattered throughout the galaxy, some such as sang, magnus have mutations.
Slaanesh mutated one primarch female to cause dissention, to make a lever more easily exploited in the heresy (you could say tzeetch did the same with magnus, and gave him/her a tip off)
The reason girl space marines don't work is because all primarchs (so the geneseed) had XY and XX is incompatiable.
Then either A. The emperor's 'daughter' falls to chaos or B. she's exiled but still fights for the emperor.
For CSM they can always have been changed by slaanesh, or fabius bile could have played a practical joke on them.
Or if you don't like chance mutations another explenation is:
The Ruler of a deamon world has control over it and people on it.
Slaanesh has female and male followers. Through a fluke, one gains control over a deamon world.
World Eaters ask to stay there and she agries, then the night before they launch there attack, she turns them into feminine women and molds there armor to fit.
There's lots of ways you can match the fluff.
Combining science... and good ideas... I like it!
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Post by: thompie12
CrazyThang wrote:landraider wrote:For Female Space Marines you could make it fit the lore(fluff) this way:
Emperor creates 20 male primarchs.
When there scattered throughout the galaxy, some such as sang, magnus have mutations.
Slaanesh mutated one primarch female to cause dissention, to make a lever more easily exploited in the heresy (you could say tzeetch did the same with magnus, and gave him/her a tip off)
The reason girl space marines don't work is because all primarchs (so the geneseed) had XY and XX is incompatiable.
Then either A. The emperor's 'daughter' falls to chaos or B. she's exiled but still fights for the emperor.
For CSM they can always have been changed by slaanesh, or fabius bile could have played a practical joke on them.
Or if you don't like chance mutations another explenation is:
The Ruler of a deamon world has control over it and people on it.
Slaanesh has female and male followers. Through a fluke, one gains control over a deamon world.
World Eaters ask to stay there and she agries, then the night before they launch there attack, she turns them into feminine women and molds there armor to fit.
There's lots of ways you can match the fluff.
Combining science... and good ideas... I like it!
Me too.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Please delete: posted to wrong thread by accdent
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Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle
BaronIveagh wrote:
Tell me, has England truly forgotten the Fields of Flanders? Does the horror of Verdun no longer stir in the English breast?
oooo where to start
Will just say that it was not the British at Verdun, but the French Army who held on in the grimmest of battles. Until the Pals Regiments, (my great-grandfarther among them) were ready to begin some small relieving battle further up the line.
But you are correct IMHO to remind us of the real horrors that people have gone through. Makes all the wranglings about bubbies on 28mm plastic figures seem very small and trivial. not got to the end of the thread to see how the OP's models have worked out yet.
sheesh it is tough going. but not as tough as the Somme. look forward to seeing some pics when I get there.
" There's a long, long trail a-winding
Into the land of my dreams. . . "
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Post by: FantasyBob
Nice idea! i really wanna see more female marine!
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Post by: reds8n
If you can please check the posting dates of the last entry on threads like this in future please. Ta.
Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.
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