I bought a T-Shirt for the 40K European Team Championships to support the guys going over there, so I am invested in this team, they better win!
Haha, but seriously, congratz to everyone who made the cut, I wish I was going. I hope they have an awesome time and take the opportunity to see some of Europe. I have spent three summers over there and love it. Such a great place.
I am still waiting for the crap to hit the fan when Stelek finds out that Gareth is on the team representing the US.
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skkipper wrote:congrats to the qualifiers
the question is come June when the sticker shock hits, will Gareth and Paul go?
$3K to go play 40k is spendy
I could have been on the team if I really wanted to be, but I took goofy lists to Adepticon instead of IG/Space Wolves like those who played their way in.
I am kind of glad that I did not get selected because that is a bit of pocket change to go play 40k.
The players for team America are:
Ben Mohlie (Captain) (I played against Ben Thurs. night and he beat me like I owed him money, he was good guy)
Wyatt Triana
Shaun Kemp
Greg Sparks
Mike Mutscheller
John Willingham
The 2 that played their way in/alts are:
Gareth Hunt
Nick Rose
Paul Migliano
I forgot who the 4th was
Looking forward to seeing the US guys over there :]. I'm part of the England ETC team, and hear we have set up a challenge for the friday night against you guys before the event, should be a lot of fun, beer and trash talk!
Blackmoor wrote:I am still waiting for the crap to hit the fan when Stelek finds out that Gareth is on the team representing the US.
I wasnt aware Gareth was disliked by Stelek. I thought it was just Steve. Oh well. I tried to like Stelek but its constant hate over there...I think as an individual he might be a good guy. But if S does hit the F it will be contained to his blog..
Blackmoor wrote:
I could have been on the team if I really wanted to be, but I took goofy lists to Adepticon instead of IG/Space Wolves like those who played their way in.
Yeah I could have too, just decided not to bring my loaded dice and not play a single game for 3 months before the con so I was rusty.
Will be interesting, personally think european 40k is quite different from the stuff you guys play, from what I've read here + elsewhere. Isn't 1750 a bit unusual for US guys too?
Jpr wrote:Will be interesting, personally think european 40k is quite different from the stuff you guys play, from what I've read here + elsewhere. Isn't 1750 a bit unusual for US guys too?
Alex threw down the gauntlet to the US team at Adepticon. 1750 points has been the norm in the US for about 5 years now, and only within the last year has crept up to 2000 points.
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jwolf_bols wrote:Greg Sparks is Inquistor Malice.
Nick Rose is Darkwynn.
Only handles I know. People should use tricky handles like I do.
Internet handles:
Ben Mohlie: Space Curves
Wyatt Triana: Unknown
Shaun Kemp: Unknown
Greg Sparks: Inquistor Malice
Mike Mutscheller: Rogue Engineer (Does not really post)
John Willingham: Does not really post
The 2 that played their way in/alts are:
Gareth Hunt: White Devil
Nick Rose; Darkwynn
Paul Migliano: Notthistime
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GMMStudios wrote:
Blackmoor wrote:I am still waiting for the crap to hit the fan when Stelek finds out that Gareth is on the team representing the US.
I wasnt aware Gareth was disliked by Stelek. I thought it was just Steve. Oh well. I tried to like Stelek but its constant hate over there...I think as an individual he might be a good guy. But if S does hit the F it will be contained to his blog..
I'm afraid there was an addition error when calculating who qualified for the team, and in fact Paul Miglino won the second spot instead of Gareth Hunt. Nick Rose still has his spot.
Gareth was very understanding about the mistake and graciously accepted our apology.
The alternates are now 1st Alternate: Eric Hobin 2nd Alternate: Brad Chester. Once Paul gives final confirmation that he can go or not we will have the 8th spot determined.
The team is:
Ben Mohlie (me) Team Captain handle: spacecurves
Greg Sparks handle: Inquisitor Malice
Wyatt Traina handle: Paintraina
Nick Rose handle: Darkwynn
Mike Mutscheller
John Willingham
Shaun Kemp
Paul Miglino (won a spot but still confirming)
Blackmoor, it was a pleasure to meet you in person, and you are giving yourself far to little credit in our game. It was very close right up to turn 4, when you had to leave your silly gunline and come fight for objectives like a man . The game was great fun, and really went back and forth many times.
Team America is beginning our preparations in full, we are going to have 8 amazing players making the journey, watch out Europe, we're coming for ya!
I'm looking to wrecking face over at the ETC. I mean last time we were over there we kicked a good amount of @$$, anyone remember WWII?
Just saying though if Team Britain gets beat by Team Germany first round and we are forced to beat Germany in the finals... well it’s just a repeat victory in my book.
In all seriousness I'm also looking forward to the fun grudge match with team Britain, we’ll be showing them for thinking there any good at a game “they” invented. I was actually able to talk to a few of there teams members (or at least there captain) at Adepticon and they all seem like great guys and I think hanging with them will be a blast. Plus I think they’ll be our only friends within several thousand miles.
Greg Sparks has won a ukGT heat before and was close in the final but was surprised by a ruling.
basicly the opponet had two units ranked up and Greg had was going to charge the front unit but was told he could not charge the front unit because that would put him within a inch of the back unit. since bases are smaller then an inch.
skkipper wrote:Greg Sparks has won a ukGT heat before and was close in the final but was surprised by a ruling.
basicly the opponet had two units ranked up and Greg had was going to charge the front unit but was told he could not charge the front unit because that would put him within a inch of the back unit. since bases are smaller then an inch.
He got screwed b/c the restriction on moving within 1" is removed in the assault phase.
I know I am not good enough to qualify, I tried but one out of three games I always do something slowed.
aka never using the vortex grenade game 1 on friday.
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Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:
skkipper wrote:Greg Sparks has won a ukGT heat before and was close in the final but was surprised by a ruling.
basicly the opponet had two units ranked up and Greg had was going to charge the front unit but was told he could not charge the front unit because that would put him within a inch of the back unit. since bases are smaller then an inch.
He got screwed b/c the restriction on moving within 1" is removed in the assault phase.
skkipper wrote:Greg Sparks has won a ukGT heat before and was close in the final but was surprised by a ruling.
basicly the opponet had two units ranked up and Greg had was going to charge the front unit but was told he could not charge the front unit because that would put him within a inch of the back unit. since bases are smaller then an inch.
He got screwed b/c the restriction on moving within 1" is removed in the assault phase.
I find it amusing that Gareth is now third alternate after what was deleted earlier in this thread. I think there is a dark cloud cast over the team unfortunately now.
Black Blow Fly wrote:I find it amusing that Gareth is now third alternate after what was deleted earlier in this thread. I think there is a dark cloud cast over the team unfortunately now.
G
I think if you bring it up again the Mods it can be interpreted as trolling BBF.
Grats to Paul Miglino for making it on the team. I play that guy every other weekend! We said before the tournies that itd been awesome to both make it on team USA. I'm glad at least one of us did.
Me, well I'll just have to play better next year. I was close, but close dont cut it in america.
Regardless of your concern he is not currently on the team, Paul has now recieved his spot.
1st alternative being Eric Hoben, 2nd is Brad Chester.
So as of now your concern has nothing to do with the current make up of the team. Other then he's another American who wants to see other Americans table Europeans for the top of turn 3, which is something I think we can all agree on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually Blackmoor I remember last year, last round of the team tournament played Brad and I on the top table for the over all tournament... we won. That could have been a 2 for 1 against the current team (Brad being only an alternative but still counts, kinda) fortutnaly thoughwe pulled it out.
Regardless of what anyone thinks both Greg and I said several times that you would have been an excelent addition to the team if you were to recieve the invitation. Regardless of an win-loss record.
I was the Team England guy at Adepticon, and Spacecurves was kind enough to accept our grudge match challenge on Thursday evening.
For those in the team that don't know, the loser of the grudge match has to adopt the accents of the winners for the rest of the weekend. We shall be providing monocles for you all to wear...
Well - I can tell you that I'm not playing in a grudge match. I already tabled England enough when we were at the UKGT. The only real match was a Scotsman (Iain Skinner) because we all know the Scots are better players. Hell if England doesn't have any Scotsman, they might as well just stay home. If "The Everliving" is the same person that I played in Baltimore, I already won that match with a bad army list. So on to bigger and better things.
As far as I'm concerned, the only 40K I will be playing is on the days of the ETC. I already have the rest of the trip to go and cruise around Europe. While I'm part of the nutty group who is willing to go ETC - I do want to see a bunch of Germany and other parts of Europe.
Oh and Blackmoor - I'm tabling you the next time we play. No more panzy playing around. Dakka Detachment 1 couldn't even handle the second tier Toledo team. I'll bring the box of Kleenex so you can wipe away your tears of shame.
As far as the grudge match I said I'd love to if we have everyone there in time the day before, we haven't figured out the travel logistics yet. Either way we look forward to meeting the english team, at least we'll be able to talk to you gents!
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
Oh and Blackmoor - I'm tabling you the next time we play. No more panzy playing around. Dakka Detachment 1 couldn't even handle the second tier Toledo team. I'll bring the box of Kleenex so you can wipe away your tears of shame.
#1. You still play 40k?
#2. You are not man enough to table me.
#3. That is funny because I thought your team was the second tier Toledo team.
Well - I can tell you that I'm not playing in a grudge match. I already tabled England enough when we were at the UKGT. The only real match was a Scotsman (Iain Skinner) because we all know the Scots are better players. Hell if England doesn't have any Scotsman, they might as well just stay home. If "The Everliving" is the same person that I played in Baltimore, I already won that match with a bad army list. So on to bigger and better things.
You're misremembering. You only won that game because your greater daemon was on a forgeworld model base and so just large enough to charge on the turn it turned up...
Oh, and you need to get over whining about how you were cheated out of winning the UKGT that time no-one else can remember. That song is getting real old
You have a bad memory then, which is to be expected.
Hell Team America won't even get the chance to face off against the UK at the ETC since your expected to lose to France in the first round you English K-nig-ht. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
Yeah - it was good to finally meet you as well. It's always a lot of fun to run into the different personalities that you see posting online. BTW - don't you know that walking eldar suck?
Yeah - it was good to finally meet you as well. It's always a lot of fun to run into the different personalities that you see posting online. BTW - don't you know that walking eldar suck?
Hahaha, yeah, only total idiots play Foot Eldar!
Ah man, good old internet group think.
@GG
The ETC is the European Team Championship, there will be teams from all of Europe (obviously) and this year an Australian team and Team USA will be going to compete for ultimate bragging rights as to which country is the best.
To qualify you have to be invited, or had to win one of the specified Adepticon events.
So basically, it is some of the best players we have in the States going to open up a can of whip ass on the world!
I hope someone films it and puts the rounds on YouTube so that all of us back home can watch and cheer on.
Reecius wrote:The ETC is the European Team Championship, there will be teams from all of Europe (obviously) and this year an Australian team and Team USA will be going to compete for ultimate bragging rights as to which country is the best.
Wrong! You assume we will actually have competition... I'm just imagining we walk in, get some trophies handed to us, we take some pictures, then the tournament for second place begins.
For additional reading please see American Exceptionalism, for additional proof of how awesome we and all American Dakkites, trully are.
Well having seen my esteemed collegue everliving play and having also seen some of these lists that win your tourneys over there I note the meta game must be vastly different, you guys are bitching a guard "leaf blower" list and a three wolf lord + puppies list won an adepticon tourney........not anything that regularly top tens over here....we're waiting to be impressed :p (assume English sarcasm )
Wanderingrogue wrote:Well having seen my esteemed collegue everliving play and having also some of these lists that win your tourneys over there I note the meta game must be vastly different, you guys are botching a guard "leaf blower" list and a three wolf lord + puppies list won an adepticon tourney........not anything that regularly top tens over here....we're waiting to be impressed :p (assume English sarcasm )
Here's the big mistake that I see in the above comment:
List making does not equate to quality playing ability.
If I can take what you consider to be a "sub-optimal" list and still win with it, does that not mean I am a better player?
it means your a good player... and id tip my hat to you for beating me; many have done it, many will again im sure. But i know id always rather be a good player with a with a good list rather a good player with a bad one -and again dont get me wrong im not actually saying over the ponds lists are "bad" im saying that the lists that win over there dont seem to win over here, its a meta matter...and i for one am excited to see whos will trump the other ( i did say to note the sarcasm )
Walking through all of those supposedly good lists wasn't a problem before and won't be a problem again. Keep on building all those net lists. It does a general good.
I looked on the adepticon website and didn't see any info there on how to qualify. I'm interested in this, and would like some more detail on how to qualify for next year's.
Team America has not yet decided how spots for next year will be awarded, but I can say that at least some will be awarded competitively at one or more major US events.
Team America has not yet decided how spots for next year will be awarded, but I can say that at least some will be awarded competitively at one or more major US events.
It hardly seems fair that you only have one team per country when you have teams from the Faroe Islands (Pop. 56,000?) with a team, and yet USA with a Pop. of 300,000,000+ only gets one team, but I can see why they did it so that each team represents one country.
The first 6 were chosen because we were all accomplished 40k players... and were willing to spend the money. For example Mike was chosen for several big GT wins, also the first circuit over all. Greg because he has actually gone to Europe and won a GT there, so he has experienced what we are going to be doing for the first time. Shawn and his "Boyz" won the team tournament 2 years ago.
Also your idea of brokering players onto other teams isn't all that far off, spacecurves has reportedly gotten several emails from European mercenaries willing to be in Germany to play for him for the ETC, luckily we prefer our 40k heroes home grown
I know that based upon a recount of the scores tallied at Adepticon Gareth Hunt has lost his place on the team and has been relegated back to the third alternate. I can tell you Gareth is probably THE best tournament player I have ever met, and believe me when I say I know many if not most all of the best players in the US. I respect your plan to you used to seed the last two spots but I have to say honestly I think your team would be a lot stronger with Gareth onboard. To me you should bring the very best players that have the resources to attend. I know there is still a bit of a dark cloud over my friend Gareth due to the 2008 Ard Boyz finals... But that was over two years ago. In the meantime Gareth has grown considerably overall as a complete gamer. It's a shame that some people still insist upon bringing up the Ard Boyz. It's a lot like the novel A Scarlet Letter in my mind. Whether he did or did not cheat does not necessarily mean he is still the person some want to label him as for whatever reason. I chuckle when I see missions that have a special rule stating daemons must use the Daemonic Assault rule to deploy. It's truly a misnomer in that Gareth actually did deepstrike all of his daemons. There was a wording in the rules that could be taken as more units could be placed in the preferred wave and the fact is the judge on hand ruled it as such. Some of the prior missions had some wacky rules in regards to deployment and this is where the misunderstanding stems from. I think your team would be even stronger if you had a more hetrogeneous sampling of players from across the country rather than a highly homogenous one taking deeply from one team. Gareth and myself played Da Boyz to dead even draw in the final round of the team tournament two years ago... Gareth is simply just that good. Of course I was helping him out just a wee bit but that is besides the point... Heh! I know it's youse guys call and believe me when I say I respect that immensely. I would just like to see the very best team go so you have the best chance to get the big win. And I think Gareth could certainly help you to acheive that illustrious goal. Just my 2c.
I'm sure Gareth would have done great for us, there wasn't any decision made to remove him, it was just realized that an error had been made in calculating the final results. The alternates changed too after the correction was made. Let me again give props to Gareth for understanding the mistake, he handled it with class.
The one country per team thing is supposed to be just like the Olympics, regardless of size or wealth each country gets equal representation. There are actually rules in the ETC charter for having mercenaries on your team from other countries. Four players from a country must be citizens of that country, the other four can be from anywhere. However I think it is rare for a country to use mercenaries, all the major 40k nations have the same problem we do, far, far, more than eight players who are qualified to go.
Well maybe the way things will shake out Gareth might still have the opportunity to go. I know of all the players ahead of him and have to say without a doubt he is head & shoulders above them as a tournament player... And I say that with no disrespect to anyone else. I think it's important to realize Gareth did what he did at Adepticon fielding the new Tyranids which is no small feat for sure.
Team America has not yet decided how spots for next year will be awarded, but I can say that at least some will be awarded competitively at one or more major US events.
Next year will be interesting now that the news is out and you have people thinking about it. With many of the traveling tourney players not spending money on GTs you will have people with some disposable income to spend on something like this tourney. Since there is nothing in the rules that says which team represents. What happens if two teams(or more) sign up from the US. With all the buzz and an extra 12 months of people thinking about it and preparing it is a very real possibility that more than 1 team signs up the following year. Than what? A playoff to see who goes? First one to get to the ETC wins? How do you ensure that those who sign up for the ETC in the future are involved in deciding these issues.
Yes I know and read how the other countries have done it. But the future will be interesting.
The ETC charter already accounts for such a situation. I believe Ben is the official captain until he relinquishes the slot and elects another captain. This way they don't have the problem of two or more teams fighting and not knowing which team is actually representing a country.
As Ben stated before, this is a starting point. There are plenty of players that are qualified to be on the team. Thus the fun it will be year after year on seeing who comes and who goes.
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:The ETC charter already accounts for such a situation. I believe Ben is the official captain until he relinquishes the slot and elects another captain. This way they don't have the problem of two or more teams fighting and not knowing which team is actually representing a country.
As Ben stated before, this is a starting point. There are plenty of players that are qualified to be on the team. Thus the fun it will be year after year on seeing who comes and who goes.
Dont get me wrong I think its great you guys are going. But it will still be interesting to see how this works out in the future.
While the charter does say the last Captain retains the position. It also has a formal procedure in case there is a problem in team selection. So a group of people who felt they were left out and a process was not set in place can take it up with the chairman. That is where I see the problem in the future. Spending many years working with Europeans I an already hear the answer(playoff)
So than you have on one hand a decision not to have a playoff which will lead to complaints or a decision to have playoffs which will lead too...Personally I think its hard enough just getting people who are good players with the finances to go to an event like this. Throw in a playoff selection than it all goes to hell in hand basket because I believe as Blackmoor pointed out at one point. Many gamers have a hard time getting to local tourneys much less the finances for this type of thing.
Trying to figure out the number of slots to be allocated to captains picks and competitive picks will be interesting since that is probably what will bug the people the most. I already know of two major clubs saying they would like to do this in the future(not mine by the way).
sabote wrote:While the charter does say the last Captain retains the position. It also has a formal procedure in case there is a problem in team selection. So a group of people who felt they were left out and a process was not set in place can take it up with the chairman. That is where I see the problem in the future. Spending many years working with Europeans I an already hear the answer(playoff)
So than you have on one hand a decision not to have a playoff which will lead to complaints or a decision to have playoffs which will lead too...Personally I think its hard enough just getting people who are good players with the finances to go to an event like this. Throw in a playoff selection than it all goes to hell in hand basket because I believe as Blackmoor pointed out at one point. Many gamers have a hard time getting to local tourneys much less the finances for this type of thing.
Trying to figure out the number of slots to be allocated to captains picks and competitive picks will be interesting since that is probably what will bug the people the most. I already know of two major clubs saying they would like to do this in the future(not mine by the way).
I believe all the Team America members completely agree. We like the idea of getting more people from a diverse set of groups to be represented. Ultimately, this is a starting point and I believe the current members have the honor and integrity to setup the American system for a future selection or play-off process.
Interestingly, there are a ton of challenges with this too and not everyone will be happy (as usual). What events do you include? Do you go off a national ranking system? If so, what ranking system since there isn't one currently? Even GWs North American Invitational in Vegas next year won't be done until June, which is not even two months out from the event. Is this system flawed by including people that place high due to soft scores (since the ETC focuses on battle)? And much, much more. The US being so large creates it's own set of logistical and selection challenges for a system that will be heavily financed by it's own player base.
Like I said it should be interesting. Germany and the surrounding countries have a ranking system they use which is pretty neat. But they dont use it for picking their teams. It is more a club and personal ranking system. Either way its not a bad starting place if that is the way people decide to go in the future.
The obvious thing would be to set up a council which would organize events in the future and even help raise money either through individual sponsors and/or business sponsors. That way those that are less fortunate would have help making the trip. Once those things are established it would be hard for anyone to make the argument that they should have been considered. Either you decide to go through the due process or sit on the sidelines and watch. Any complaint to the ETC would not have any validation because a system would be in place to have things solved in the US. Possibly a big job for the future and one with more time commitments than what it is currently.
or this will all fade away after the first year event like so many things.
I will get to see the best of both worlds as I will be traveling back and forth between Europe and the US so a first hand view for me
And has anyone thought about designing team t shirts? painting up spacemarines that are painted as the American Flag to give to the losers across the table? We are America, go big or go home.
The problem with America is it's size. Most countries in Europe are really small and you can have tournaments that everyone goes to, and figure out who the best players are.
Maybe next year we can have a play in tournament at Adepticon.
I nominate Neil Cauly since he has won 3 GTs in the span of a single year and won the 2nd Tournament circuit. That accomplishment is unprecedented. I would also Nominate Marc Parker but he is currently in family mode.
btw as the Cuban representative, I am taking all applications for the Cuban National Team.
GMMStudios wrote:I really wish I was an old retired man that wasn't already obligated past when you guys leave and could sponsor the entire team. That would be badass.
lol you have a lot of figures to paint before you get to that point. But nice thoughts anyhow, maybe if this ever gets organized to the point where they take sponsors you could do that.
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Black Blow Fly wrote:I would like to see the team determined by playoff at a neutral site.
G
G- you crack me up sometimes. Neutral? should there be seconds that attend and draw up the weapons of choice? I get where you are going but I think its really simple as tagging on to a major event.
GMMStudios wrote:Wow I totally took your post the wrong way. I deeply apologize. I didn't catch what you really meant at all!
No problem- problem with written communication and sometimes we dont take the time to explain things thinking others will get it. Why I posted my reply.
BTW loved your army and you are quite correct if you had the time it would be amazing.
Everyone knows that each team is made up of 8 players.
What most people do not understand is that each team has to have 8 different armies in it. So you can have several people getting in playing Space Wolves, but then one one could play that army. That is the problem with a play in tournament, and not only that, but you have people switching to armies that they are unfamiliar with.
That is why I was wondering who is playing what army.
Blackmoor wrote:Everyone knows that each team is made up of 8 players.
What most people do not understand is that each team has to have 8 different armies in it. So you can have several people getting in playing Space Wolves, but then one one could play that army. That is the problem with a play in tournament, and not only that, but you have people switching to armies that they are unfamiliar with.
That is why I was wondering who is playing what army.
We've been pretty good about splitting up armies based on what we are comfortable with. I'm playing Eldar as of now, but am willing to switch to any army as long as I can get the models. There are several of us on the team that are in that position.
On the subject of Sponsors I want to say that Battlefoam is sponsoring this year's team. They got our uniforms printed, and will be giving custom cut battlefoam bags to each team member to make sure our armies make it across the ocean intact.
I played against Shaun and DaBoyz in the final round of the TT. Bit of a mismatch vs. our mech guard and we got primary (but lost secondary and tertiary) but seems to be a great player and was a terrific guy to play against.
RabidDuck wrote:Skyth, I know you do not agree with there opinion's on comp, but it hardly seems fair to judge an entire group like that.
DaBobyz is scattered across the northeast, they are not all located in NY
Agreed. Skyth, I know you've had some on-going issues with some of our guys, but it's not right to lump us all together like that in an O/T post.
Ozymandias wrote:I played against Shaun and DaBoyz in the final round of the TT. Bit of a mismatch vs. our mech guard and we got primary (but lost secondary and tertiary) but seems to be a great player and was a terrific guy to play against.
I was Shaun's teammate the final round of the TT. We did have a great game on our table against Dakka detachment 2.
Shaun, as wall as many of the other daboyz, have won or placed in multiple GTs. Eric Hobin, the first alternate for the ETC is also a daboyz member, albeit part of the Boston detachment.
Blackmoor,
I think I am playing Witch Hunters or Orks.
Everyone else:
Shaun is a great guy. We have Team America T-shirts. You can buy one and support Team America! Please Private message me if you are interested. They look badass.
Shaun won the Chicago GT four or five years ago with a Deamon bomb army.he beat me in game three. I ended up with four max wins and a max loss to Shaun. Damn him!!!! Just kidding, He is a great Guy, and a gracious opponent.
These are Team Americans lists by the way for the event that is rapidly approaching.
*******************************
United States of America
*******************************
Player : Ben "Space Curves " Mohlie
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Marines
Librarian : Neutral Zone, Avenger [100 ]
5 Assault Terminators : TH / SS [200 ]
Dreadnought : Multi - Melta , heavy flamer (10) [ 115]
Dreadnought : Multi - Melta , heavy flamer (10) [ 115]
Troop 1:
10 Marines, meltagun (5 ), multi - Melta free () , Sgt with Power fist ( 25) , combi - Melta (10) [ 210]
Heavy Support 1 : Land Raider (220 ) Extra Armor ( 15) = [235 ]
Heavy Support 2: Obliterator (75 * 3) = [225 ]
Heavy Support 3 : Obliterator (75 * 3) = [225 ]
Total : 1748
————————————————————————————–
Player : Paul Miglino
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Blood Angels
HQ1 : Librarian (100 ) Jump Pack ( 25) Blood Lance ( 0) Fear of Darkness ( 0) [ 125]
Heavy Support 1 : Long Fangs (15 * 6) Missile Launchers ( 10 * 5) = [140 ]
Heavy Support 2 : Long Fangs (15 * 6) Missile Launchers ( 10 * 5) = [140 ]
Heavy Support 3 : Long Fangs (15 * 6) Missile Launchers ( 10 * 5) = [140 ]
Transport 1 : Drop Pod = [ 35]
2 Transport : Drop Pod = [ 35]
3 Transport : Drop Pod = [ 35]
4 Transport : Drop Pod = [ 35]
Transport 5 : Drop Pod = [ 35]
6 Transport : Drop Pod = [ 35]
Heavy Support 1 : Ordinance Battery
Medusa: Medusa siege cannon , heavy bolter [135 ]
Medusa: Medusa siege cannon , heavy bolter [135 ]
Heavy Support 2 : Hydra Flak Tank Battery
Hydra Tank: 2 twin linked hydra auto cannons , heavy bolters [75 ]
Hydra Tank: 2 twin linked hydra auto cannons , heavy bolters [75 ]
Heavy Support 3 :
Manticore : Storm Eagle Rockets , Heavy Bolter [160 ]
Transport:
Transport 1 : Chimera : Multi - laser and heavy flamer [55 ]
Transport 2 : Chimera : Multi - laser and heavy flamer [55 ]
Transport 3 : Chimera : Multi - laser and heavy flamer [55 ]
Transport 4 : Chimera : multi-laser -and heavy flamer [55 ]
Transport 5 : Chimera : Multi - laser and heavy flamer [55 ]
Total : 1750
================
All the other countries lists have also been revealed.
So first thing I have to say is everything written below doesn't take into account special comp rules for the event as I don't presonally know them. Just my thoughts on the competitiveness of the lists in general.
Not a fan of the Ork, Eldar, or Nid lists. The podding wolf list is iffy to me as well but it could play out. The psychic powers on the BA libby should have included shield of sanguinius unless it's been ruled that it doesn't give vehicles cover saves.
Otherwise I like the BA force and the guard force quite a bit. I'm also digging the SM list the more I look at it. Also why Chaos? It's an ok list for the codex but it wouldn't be my first choice for another army. Not with Daemons and Sisters out there.
I'm assuming no SC's were allowed by the lack of them.
Couple of questions:
How does InqMalice intend to kill AV13-14 at range? He has a single unit that can shoot at AV13-14 from more than 18" (24" Singing Spear).
Same question w/AV14 for the orks. Only 2 St10 weapons that need to roll to hit aren't so hot. He also should have split the lootas into 3x5 man units to hit more targets.
I think the SW player overloaded on Chainfists but that could be personal preference.
Tyrannid should have split the HG into 3x2 Guard units instead of 2x3 Guard units. Also Adrenal Glands on the Trygons would have helped.
Look who posted the lists. They are trying to get other "americans" to break down the lists and point out the weakness of each list. Who is better at breaking down and showing holes in the lists better then us. He should be doing his own homework, not trying to trick us in doing it for him. You noticed he did not post his own lists. I would be very interested in see all the lists.
Jay_Daboyz wrote:Look who posted the lists. They are trying to get other "americans" to break down the lists and point out the weakness of each list. Who is better at breaking down and showing holes in the lists better then us. He should be doing his own homework, not trying to trick us in doing it for him. You noticed he did not post his own lists. I would be very interested in see all the lists.
Hrm.....very true.
I'd say this:
1. If a competitive tournament player can look at those lists and not blink, they need help. I don't know if that was JPR's intent (getting help) but if team Europe can't dissect those lists in a heartbeat and figure out their weaknesses, they have issues.
2. If Team America whips up the competition in the ETC with THAT collection of lists, I'm going to lose all respect for those across the pond.
3. Why does the ETC have the American lists? Why are they being posted publicly ahead of time?
Hulksmash wrote:How does InqMalice intend to kill AV13-14 at range? He has a single unit that can shoot at AV13-14 from more than 18" (24" Singing Spear).
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:Rending Avenger Shuriken Catapults of course!!!
An excellent strategy!
I for one fully plan on deep striking my pods on opposite ends of the table, so as to let all my opponents concentrate on small portions of my army with out any threat of retaliation!
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
Rending Avenger Shuriken Catapults of course!!!
It is true, Greg's rending shurikens are a cornerstone of our strategy!!11!
All I'll say about this topic is that all lists are known to all team captains at the moment, and they will be posted in the public ETC forum sometime soon. Why someone felt the need to post our lists here ahead of time, I couldn't say, but they haven't been secret since July 4th.
As for the armchair analysis, keep a few things in mind while looking at them, the unique format of the tournament, and the fact that no special characters are allowed.
Team America is looking forward to the first 40k world championship!
Yes there will be fewer armor 14 vehicles than most people realise since you have to have 8 different codex's on a team. No Mephiston, no Logan, no Eldrad, no Fateweaver, etc.... starts to limit the net decks. Also remember that these guys are best off playing the lists they are most familiar with or at least close to those lists. Gregg and Mike have run versions of their lists for a while as I remember. That familiarity is invaluable to a player.
As an aside, I love the SM list. I've played a version of that for a long time and it works wonders.
Could you explain the unique format other than that no SC's are allowed and that all team members must use a different codex?
Like I stated. My comments were based upon a pure competitive aspect and didn't take into account anything other than what I've listed above. Is there something I'm missing about the format?
As for their being less AV14 due to different codexes remember that there are no less than 6 (not counting Necrons or DA's) codexes that can take AV14. Now the rest of the lists may be known and you might feel better about your choices because you see you where right in not worrying about them but in a vacuum not taking AV14 into consideration is a mistake.
Don't dink some people's thoughts on your lists. We're not saying you guys are gonna play them poorly which you seem to have taken as an assumption. You have to know people are going to be watching. I'm not saying you guys aren't good with your lists or can't make them work. It's just other than a few of the lists there I wouldn't consider bringing due to them not being as versatile as I prefer my tourney lists to be.
**Edited**
After reading the format for how games are set up I can see how some of the lists could work. As long as you don't put IM forward first and are allowed to place him and the ork player you should be fine.
The 40KETC is governered by the standards and rules in this document in addition to those laid down in the ETC Charter
We play with the 5th edition of the Warhammer 40000 rules without any add-on. Imperial Armour, Forgeworld or Apocalypse rules are not allowed.
English version of army books and rulebook takes priority over other versions.
Each player must have all codices and rules they're using, army roster, dices, measure tape and templates.
All official FAQ and Euro Rules Clarifications are in use.
2.2 Referees
The Tournament will be officiated by 3 Head Referees and they can be supported by any number of Junior Referees.
A Referee may not rule on a table where their own Nation Competes.
A Referees word is final. More over a red/yellow card system will be implemented.
A Head Referee may call an Extraordinary Captains Council at any time during the Event to discuss any matter. The Timer for the Round is suspended if it is during a round and the time will be caught up or added on at the end of the day.
2.2.A - Cards
A player or Team may receive any number of yellow cards before receiving a Red however a repeat offence that involves the same Player/Team should be strongly considered for a more severe penalty (for example another yellow card with a higher gaming point fine). A Yellow card with a 20-0 Fine is allowed.
Yellow Card – Warning. Offending Player and Players Captain are both warned. Referee may choose to fine the player Gaming points, however the Referee may not directly affect Match points as per the ETC Charter.
Red Card – Sin-bin. Offending Player concedes the game (20-0) and must leave the hall till the end of the round. This is so a violent or abusive player has a cool down period before they are allowed back in the gaming hall.
2.2.B - Gaming Point Fines
A Referee issuing a Gaming Point fine will ask for the Teams Result Sheet prior to submission at the end of the round. They are to annotate the Fine on the Offending players score and to ensure that this is correctly implemented with the Admin Staff.
3. Armies
3.1 Allowed Army lists:
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Codex: Daemonhunters
- Codex: Dark Eldar
- DE: Wych Cult
- Codex: Eldar
- Codex: Imperial Guard
- Codex: Necrons
- Codex: Orks
- Codex: Space Marines
- Codex: Blood Angels
- Codex: Dark Angels
- Codex: Black Templars
- Codex: Space Wolves
- Codex: Tau Empire
- Codex: Tyranids
- Codex: Witch Hunters
- Codex Daemons
Army lists (codices) which will be published after 8th june 2010 won't be used.
3.2 Army lists limitations :
All Special/Individual Characters are banned and may not be fielded in the 2010 ETC.
3.3 Armies restrictions in teams:
One army per codex. To make things clear:
0-1 Eldar
0-1 Tyranids
0-1 Necrons
0-1 Orks
0-1 Codex Space Marines
0-1 Black Templars
0-1 Dark Angels
0-1 Space wolves
0-1 Blood angels
0-1 Chaos Space Marines
0-1 Imperial Guard
0-1 Deamon Hunters
0-1 Witch Hunters
0-1 Tau
0-1 Dark Eldar
0-1 Deamons
No Witch Hunters, Deamon Hunters or Deathwatch are allowed.
4. Games
4.1 Scoring system :
A match between teams consists of 8 individual games.
At the individual level : Game points
Fist step - decide who is the winner based on rulebook rules. The result is always 15 (winner) :5 (loser). If it's tied on the objectives both players recieve 10.
Second step
Compute Victory Points (VP) difference. The player having the VP difference in his favour gets a bonus, the other one gets a malus.
Difference in vps / game points bonus / malus
1450-1750 / +5 / -5
1150-1449 / +4 / -4
850-1149 / +3 / -3
550-849 / +2 / -2
250-549 / +1 / -1
0-249 / no bonus & malus for vps
To sum up, the result of an individual players consists of points awarded for objectives (win = 15, tie = 10, loss = 5, see step 1), plus or minus a bonus or malus due to Victory Points (see step 2).
At the team level : Match points
Team result consist of the sum of its players game points.
Match Points :
Team result, match points
86-160 = Win, 2 points
75-85 = Draw, 1 point
0-74 = Loss, 0 points
If two or more teams have the same number of team points (2/1/0) at the end of the tournament, game points gained from all battles will decide the champion.
4.2 Team players pairing system :
Captains will have 10 minutes before each match to decide who will play with which opponnent. They can consult with and use the help of the rest the of the team freely.
Players during match will be matched by Captains in that way :
"Secret challenge" - At the start of the pairing captains chose secretly one player - a champion. Champion can be different from round to round. Both names of champions are written down at the start of the pairing on a separate piece of paper and revealed and the end of it. Champions play on the last available table.
After that:
1. Both captains roll a dice.
2. Captain A who rolled lowest puts forward player A.
3. Captain B puts a player to fight player A.
4. Captain A choses a table for that game.
5. Captain B who rolled highest puts forward player B.
6. Captain A puts a player to fight player B.
7. Captain B choses a table for that game.
8. Captain A .....
4.3 Missions :
We are playing 6 battles, missions are :
Battle 1: Mission: Seize Ground with 5 counters. Deployment: Dawn of War.
Battle 2: Mission: Capture and Control. Deployment: Pitched battle.
Battle 3: Mission: Annihilation. Deployment: Spearhead
Battle 4: Mission: Capture and Control. Deployment: Dawn of War.
Battle 5: Mission: Seize Ground with 5 counters. Deployment: Spearhead
Battle 6: Mission: Annihilation. Deployment: Pitched battle.
5. Lists Submission :
Names of players with armies and team army lists are to be submitted by 23:59 on the 4th of July 2010.
Teams that meet that deadline and submit correct army lists will receive 2 Team points (as for one team win). In extraordinary circumstances the captain's council can award those points even if some of the lists were not sent or were sent incorrect before the deadline (a vote will be called).
Army lists are first going to be send to and published on secret captains forum. After the deadline (5th july) they will be published in the public section for all to see.
Referees
Quote:
2.2 Referees
The Tournament will be officiated by 3 Head Referees and they can be supported by any number of Junior Referees.
A Referee may not rule on a table where their own Nation Competes.
A Referees word is final. More over a red/yellow card system will be implemented.
A Head Referee may call an Extraordinary Captains Council at any time during the Event to discuss any matter. The Timer for the Round is suspended if it is during a round and the time will be caught up or added on at the end of the day.
2.2.A - Cards
A player or Team may receive any number of yellow cards before receiving a Red however a repeat offence that involves the same Player/Team should be strongly considered for a more severe penalty (for example another yellow card with a higher gaming point fine). A Yellow card with a 20-0 Fine is allowed.
Yellow Card – Warning. Offending Player and Players Captain are both warned. Referee may choose to fine the player Gaming points, however the Referee may not directly affect Match points as per the ETC Charter.
Red Card – Sin-bin. Offending Player concedes the game (20-0) and must leave the hall till the end of the round. This is so a violent or abusive player has a cool down period before they are allowed back in the gaming hall.
2.2.B - Gaming Point Fines
A Referee issuing a Gaming Point fine will ask for the Teams Result Sheet prior to submission at the end of the round. They are to annotate the Fine on the Offending players score and to ensure that this is correctly implemented with the Admin Staff.
Spacecurves wrote:
Team America is looking forward to the first 40k world championship!
NotThisTime wrote:
All Special/Individual Characters are banned and may not be fielded in the 2010 ETC.
Ahahahahahaha...
No wait, I'm not done yet.
Ahahahahaha.
I mean you wouldn't want all those 1000 point vulkan lists running around imbalancing everything...
Maybe you should implement comp and sportsmanship to...
It is a good idea to have a wide mix of tactically flexible army lists. Several net lists suffer from obscure matchup problems. The team pairings allow for one of these lists to meet it's antithesis. Well rounded lists are a better choice. I think the guys have made good choices.
Some of the lists could still severely have problems with match-ups but because you can mitigate that by how they choose their match-ups I think they'll be fine. My worry was that random pairing against different teams armies could result in the Eldar or Orks lining up against IG/Landraider heavy armies. With the way they do pairings that is almost impossible.
Also the banning of SC's really does make for more limited lists. Especially since 5th edition is all about using them to unlock certain builds. I'm in total agreement with Dash and Silentbob on this.
Avatar is different as it isn't a named character. It's like a Greater Summoned Daemon (which you can only have one). So you could take him but not take any of the named specials.
Its cool that I actually know two people on this team. I can tell you sean's nid army is pretty brutal... i've played it before, and not come away very well.
Honersstodnt wrote:Its cool that I actually know two people on this team. I can tell you sean's nid army is pretty brutal... i've played it before, and not come away very well.
Yea 6 of 8 ETC players came to the DaBoyz GT last year. I hope we can get 7 of the 8 players for this years event. I think we can get Paul; he only lives one state over.
The DaBoyz GT has real competition. We are expecting 80+ 40k players. It is not like other events, such as Bolter Beach which only 24 people (yea that is a shot at GBF and Parker).
The DaBoyz GT has real competition. We are expecting 80+ 40k players. It is not like other events, such as Bolter Beach which only 24 people (yea that is a shot at GBF and Parker).
Whats wrong with you Jay? Picking on the senior citizens of the 40k community.
SilentBob367 wrote:
Apparently the reason behind the decision to ban SCs was to create more variety in the army builds
The banning of special characters was due to vote in the captains council. As a collective decision, there will be different motivations involved. Our team took an internal vote, and I explained elsewhere I voted against as I believed this would lead to more variety in the teams. Probably best not tar anyone else with my brush however.
That said, having seen the lists from all participants, I think the ban of special characters has induced variety. There are some really interesting lists in attendance.
Could the 20+ no shows at Bolter Beach have had to do with the changing of the Venue? I know something like that can seriously impact an event.
As for banning of SC's making a larger variety I don't think they do. For example a WG heavy army isn't a "netlist" but you won't see something like that now. A lot of basic marine lists you won't see. A fair few Ork builds had to go. Same with BA's. Eldar really only lose 2 builds and those are only based on the effectiveness of Eldrad vs. a normal Farseer and can be made using a normal Farseer. Nids lose a few neat options as well. IG don't lose much in build type and their "netlist" isn't affected by banning SC's.
So basically the only codex I can see creating more variety by banning SC's is Eldar. Because everyone runs Eldrad that I've run into. Otherwise you've limited builds.
Bolter Beach had 10 teams for the Friday event. We also ran an LoTR event as well as a Fantasy GT. So overall we had 50+ players in total. Yuri & I were more concerned about quality over quantity and I think for our first time out together it was a success. We will be running another event next February which is a great time to come down to Florida as our winters are the best time of the year by far.
Anyways I am very about the prospect of the US team playing in the ETC. I wish the best for you guys and hope you win it all. Then we can all say that the US is the best and that would be very awesome indeed!
I am curious as to what the stranger lists are supposed to feed on. Like the footdar list, or the Ork green tide list.
Well, with the orks I don't understand the single truck with Meganobs in it. The footdar have just got to be a counter-list to something. I just don't know what.
Please do post something when the other team's lists are collected, organized, and announced.
The DaBoyz GT has real competition. We are expecting 80+ 40k players. It is not like other events, such as Bolter Beach which only 24 people (yea that is a shot at GBF and Parker).
Whats wrong with you Jay? Picking on the senior citizens of the 40k community.
Has he gotten his AARP membership yet Hod?
I hope we do great in the ETC also. I know Paul and I are going to play in the singles ETC tournament before hand and hopefully we can take the prize there and end the discussion.
Hulksmash wrote: For example a WG heavy army isn't a "netlist" but you won't see something like that now.
Not sure which WG you are referring to, but the US lists above feature units of both Wraithguard and Wolfguard.
A fair few Ork builds had to go
Ghazwagons went. Played that 3 times in a row at last GT. In its place we have significantly variegated Ork builds. I don't think a single participating country has the same Ork build now.
Don't know about Blood Angels. Only ever seen Corbulo fielded from the SC options. Never not seen not Corbulo fielded. Maybe there's something in that.
We're going to have to agree to disagree Togorch. Whether you like it or not 5th Edition is a SC edition designed to use SC's to unlock builds much like the trait systems of old. I'd say learn to deal with it. Only by actually playing with all the rules will you get the best results for whose top dog. Picking and choosing rules is something people should avoid in my opinion.
Well, join your ETC team for next year and canvas to have it changed. It's all down to a vote. The participants decided the best way to decide the best team for 2010 was to exclude special characters. Maybe they'll decide differently next year. Maybe you can help that decision. There's no right or wrong answer, but voting at least means there is an agreed outcome.
Confused by one of the rules posted - they list "0-1 Daemon Hunters" but then add a note saying "no Daemon Hunters....allowed" - was there some clarification missing in that post, i.e. "pdfs not allowed"?
I highly doubt it will change. If memory serves me correctly the US was the only country or one of a few countries that voted to keep SCs.
I'm not so sure. Player demand re-admitted special characters to the GT when they removed them briefly, and I suspect the cycle will turn on this one as well, as is the nature of such things. If a convincing case for special characters can be made to the player consitituency, then i think the decision could reverse very quickly.
Hopefully ETC does not allow the use of allies
As no-one has them I'm guessing they are disallowed unless they are embedded in the codex itself (i.e Witch Hunters + Demonhunters can use allied marines / guard). I haven't checked the rulespack on this though, as I'm playing Eldar.
torgoch wrote:That said, having seen the lists from all participants, I think the ban of special characters has induced variety.
I agree. SC's tie up lists into the same format over and over again. SW's with Logan and Long Fangs, Ghazz in Wagons, Vulcan and Melta's. It's one thing to say these SC lists are unique and special lists, but they are also replicated over and over again at tourney's. I also agree that 5th edition is the SC edition, but as I've heard many times before "How is it possible Eldrad is everywhere in the Galaxy as he is in every Eldar list."
The SC's can be an easy button for army lists, not always, but sometimes.
ryan3740 wrote:I don't like the SC ban either. You've guaranteed that you won't see any Dark Angles now. Hopefully next year they'll decide to allow them.
When you remove integral components of game design, you are no longer playing the game. ETCk =! 40k. Every tournament inherently has some of this, but fundamentally removing codex options seems pretty avoidable, vs. the unavoidable differences.
My only comment would be more about the Bolter Beach dig ... it's not a positive for one indy tournament to dig on another as a form of promotion.
BBF - you seem to be the only one to have such a huge issue with Allies, it doesnt need repeating in here.
However as they allow Code: Daemon Hunters (and Witch...) it presupposes that allies will be allowed, unless they specifically state that only the PDF counts.
ryan3740 wrote:I don't like the SC ban either. You've guaranteed that you won't see any Dark Angles now. Hopefully next year they'll decide to allow them.
Funny, I counted at least two Dark Angels.
Wow, really? Having had this discussion on BOLS recently, they do have a handful of advantages. But they center around counts-as-troops, so a fair amount of them aren't accessable.
Maybe somebody really wanted to field two copies of the SM codex?
MVBrandt wrote:When you remove integral components of game design, you are no longer playing the game. ETCk =! 40k. Every tournament inherently has some of this, but fundamentally removing codex options seems pretty avoidable, vs. the unavoidable differences.
I argued long and hard to not ban any characters, but in the end, only a couple of countries sided with me. It is one country one vote, just like any democracy, its the worst system, except for all the others that have been tried.
All the countries play by the same rules, so banning things doesn't reduce the competition of the event, it just changes the metagame around.
all of you who can't handle special character's being removed.... QQ more please. Its not like this wasn't voted on by those participating. If the majority of the participants vote for the game to be played a certain way, then who really cares? The entire purpose of this game is to have fun, and the entire purpose of an international tournament like this is to get to know gamers from other countries.
I myself don't care about ANY tournament rules. I'll play comp-heavy tournaments, i'll play tournaments with special characters, tournaments with only battlepoints scoring, whatever.... because this game is about fun. I enjoy it. So long as I know the rules beforehand, I couldn't care less about them, so long as they are fair to everyone involved (i.e., no random pairing of opponents together regardless of record).
If only a few countries want special characters, and the rest do not, then yes, that is democracy. If it were any other way, it would be rule by minority (unanimous vote required would just ensure endless debate, as nobody ever changes views on this), which is not exactly a great way to go around deciding things.
People aren't crying over SC's being removed. Most are merely pointing out that removing them means your not playing 40k as it was designed anymore.
I'll play in any tourney under the sun. And only one of my standard lists includes SC's. I don't give a hoot what the rules are I'll adjust and go to win. That doesn't mean we have to smile and tell people that it's a great thing they're doing by changing the game.
Besides. It's to be expected since this is an american board and american's as stated were one of the few countries to vote to keep SC's.
On a side note we don't know how the "captains" arrived at their choice. They were actually the minority of the people attending who voted. Not a democracy since everyone didn't have a vote though to be fair most people don't realize that the US isn't a true democracy Granted the UK guys took an internal vote so they really don't want SC's
I know the feeling. I'm at my work right now... a 9 hour shift at a tech support desk for my college, where nobody EVER calls during the summer. i've been here 4 hours, literally ONE call i've had to take.
and they won't let me paint. Just sitting at a computer... no video games... just internet forums and web comics.
LOL is right, because no one cares what Stelek thinks.
For someone who is cared so little about he sure gets brought up a lot.
But mostly it appears in the context of people who suck at tournaments (but would prefer you not to know that) talking to people who don't go to tournaments (but would definitely prefer you not to know that) talking about people who do go to tournaments (and who aren't there to talk back). At least, thats about what I can gather from a few glances.
And in this discussion at least, also from people who claim not to care about the ETC, yet can't help posting their latest thoughts on it. Really odd. Anyway, I'm glad these people have somewhere to gather.
I'm not foolish enough to think that Greg Sparks doesn't know exactly what he's doing with that army list, and I don't think any of my team-mates are either. And my respect to the entire US team for the commitment in crossing the pond to play in the event is immense.
@Alex - It's frickin' sweet that you are on team Wales. I personally can't wait to see ya' over in Germany. It's been quite a while since we played. So not bringing your Tau? What's up with that?
Alas, I wish I could make it over to the UKGTs more than just the one year. We'll have to grab a beer after the event.
@ Torgoch, thanks for your kind words. It hasn't been easy to handle the logistics and challanges of gathering 8 top players to travel half way around the world. We're not just excited about the chance to kick some ass for America, we also realize this is an important event for the game of 40k. This is the first world championship, and a major milestone for competative 40k. I for one, am honored to be a part of it.
LOL is right, because no one cares what Stelek thinks.
For someone who is cared so little about he sure gets brought up a lot.
But mostly it appears in the context of people who suck at tournaments (but would prefer you not to know that) talking to people who don't go to tournaments (but would definitely prefer you not to know that) talking about people who do go to tournaments (and who aren't there to talk back). At least, thats about what I can gather from a few glances.
And in this discussion at least, also from people who claim not to care about the ETC, yet can't help posting their latest thoughts on it. Really odd. Anyway, I'm glad these people have somewhere to gather.
I'm not foolish enough to think that Greg Sparks doesn't know exactly what he's doing with that army list, and I don't think any of my team-mates are either. And my respect to the entire US team for the commitment in crossing the pond to play in the event is immense.
Freakin' +1 Torgoch.
And I would have loved to watch the Toledo team play in the Team Tourney at Adepticon to get a sense for how their Eldar list worked, because they were beating faces left and right. Alas, over on the DD2 table we had our hands full against Razorback Spam Wolves/Mech Guard, Hades Breaching Drills, 16 Bloodcrushers led by Skulltaker, and finally a good game against Da Boyz.
There wasn't any time to wander between tables since all of our matches went so close to the time being called, but I know the Toledo team was really doing well with their eldar.
Bunker wrote:On a more on-topic note: Where the hell is Team Canada? Since we aren't cool enough to get an invite, are we supposed to cheer for the Brits?
Well actually no one gets invitations, a captain from the respective country need only apply, and assuming there isn't already a team from the country. Ben/spacecurves took the initiative and applied for Team America, no one had done it before and he took the big first leap.
As there was no prior teams or normal ways to assemble a team, in the states (such as play off or a tournament circuit), and it was all pretty last minute, he took it upon him self to assemble a team the best way he saw fit, after all it was his responsibility as the captain to get some sort of team together. Or else the first time America applied they would show up... with no one.
So who knows! Maybe next year there will be a team Canada. Someone with the guts, courage, stamina, fortitude, determination, and most importantly patience need only apply. Maybe that could be you Bunker.
Had to change it because one of the Mods took issue with the old one. Apparently Harley Quinn simulating oral sex is offensive but a model of a souldgrinder daemonette with its tits out is good to go.
Why cant you just be happy with some like an Ultra-smurfy symbol? They are very popular. I put users on IGNORE that have highly offensive avatars (like scooter... uggggh !!!)
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:@Alex - It's frickin' sweet that you are on team Wales. I personally can't wait to see ya' over in Germany. It's been quite a while since we played. So not bringing your Tau? What's up with that?
Alas, I wish I could make it over to the UKGTs more than just the one year. We'll have to grab a beer after the event.
They retired in shame after the kicking you gave em
Really good to see you again, and looking forward to meeting the rest of the US team. You guys attending have transformed a big event into the the event, and it's going to be one hell of a weekend
Black Blow Fly wrote:Why cant you just be happy with some like an Ultra-smurfy symbol? They are very popular. I put users on IGNORE that have highly offensive avatars (like scooter... uggggh !!!)
G
Because there's nothing wrong with a cartoon woman (or any woman for that matter) sticking her tongue into her cheek and anyone who thinks there is needs to put on their big boy pants
Back on topic, are any of the other countries' lists up? I've seen the fail that is the US one and the Finn one, where would I find the other ones?
I know all but two of the people on this team. They are all very good players and have won multiple awards or placed highly in competitive GT's. It's not always the list that win's its the person commanding it!
Black Blow Fly wrote:Why cant you just be happy with some like an Ultra-smurfy symbol? They are very popular. I put users on IGNORE that have highly offensive avatars (like scooter... uggggh !!!)
G
Because there's nothing wrong with a cartoon woman (or any woman for that matter) sticking her tongue into her cheek and anyone who thinks there is needs to put on their big boy pants
Back on topic, are any of the other countries' lists up? I've seen the fail that is the US one and the Finn one, where would I find the other ones?
The new avatar is very effiminate and makes you come across as well you know. I think you should change it.
Black Blow Fly wrote:Why cant you just be happy with some like an Ultra-smurfy symbol? They are very popular. I put users on IGNORE that have highly offensive avatars (like scooter... uggggh !!!)
G
Because there's nothing wrong with a cartoon woman (or any woman for that matter) sticking her tongue into her cheek and anyone who thinks there is needs to put on their big boy pants
Back on topic, are any of the other countries' lists up? I've seen the fail that is the US one and the Finn one, where would I find the other ones?
The new avatar is very effiminate and makes you come across as well you know. I think you should change it.
G
I would, but I don't want anyone getting their panties in a wad about it, so Katt stays
So here are all the other lists that have been posted. Stole them from Rants on YTTH
TEAM : Northern Ireland +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 1: Jonny Fisher, 'Jonny65'
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 2: SEAN JAMES, LYCAN
ARMY: SPACE WOLVES
HQ 1; RUNE PRIEST (100) CHOOSER OF THE SLAIN (10) JAWS OF THE WORLD WOLF (0) LIVING LIGHTNING (0) MELTA BOMBS(5) - [115]
HQ 2; RUNE PRIEST (100) CHOOSER OF THE SLAIN (10) JAWS OF THE WORLD WOLF (0) TEMPEST WRATH (0) - [110]
ELITE 1; 7 WOLF GUARD (7x18=126) 5 WITH TERMINATOR AMOUR (5x15=75) AND WOLF CLAWS /PAIR (5x15=75) 2 WITH COMBI-MELTAS (2x5=10) AND POWER FISTS (2x20=40) - [326] in Transport 1
ELITE 2; VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT(165) HEAVY FLAMER (10) M-MELTA (0) - [175] in Transport 4
ELITE 3; VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT(165) HEAVY FLAMER (10) M-MELTA (0) - [175] in Transport 5
TROOPS 1; 6 GREY HUNTERS (6x15=90) MELTA GUN (5) - [95] in Transport 2
TROOPS 2; 6 GREY HUNTERS (6x15=90) MELTA GUN (5) - [95] in Transport 3
TROOPS 3; 7 GREY HUNTERS (7x15=105) MELTA GUN (5) - [110] in Transport 6
TRANSPORT 1; LAND RAIDER (250) EXTRA ARMOUR (15) M-MELTA (10) - [275] - ELITE 1
TRANSPORT 2; RHINO (35) EXTRA ARMOUR (15) - [50] - TROOPS 1
TRANSPORT 3; RHINO (35) EXTRA ARMOUR (15) - [50] - TROOPS 2
TRANSPORT 4; DROP POD (35) DEATHWIND (20) - [55] - ELITE 2
TRANSPORT 5; DROP POD (35) DEATHWIND (20) - [55] - ELITE 3
TRANSPORT 6; DROP POD (35) DEATHWIND (20) - [55] - TROOPS 3
TOTAL [1741]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 3: MARK FREW
ARMY: SPACE MARINES
HQ:LIBRARIAN (100) TERMINATOR ARMOUR (25) NULL ZONE+ THE GATE OF INFINITY - [125]
ELITE 1: 5 TERMINATOR ASSAULT SQUAD( 5*40) THUNDER HAMMER + STORM SHIELDS (5*0) - [200] IN TRANSPORT 1
ELITE 2: 5 TERMINATOR ASSAULT SQUAD (5*40) THUNDER HAMMER + STORM SHIELD (5*0) - [200]
TROOP 1: 5 TACTICAL SQUAD (90) INCLUDES SERGEANT WITH BOLT PISTOL AND CHAINSWORD (0) - [90] IN TRANSPORT 2
TROOP 2: 5 TACTICAL SQUAD (90) INCLUDES SERGEANT WITH BOLT PISTOL AND CHAINSWORD (0) - [90] IN TRANSPORT 3
TROOP 3: 5 TACTICAL SQUAD (90) INCLUDES SERGEANT WITH BOLT PISTOL AND CHAINSWORD (0) - [90] IN TRANSPORT 4
FA1: LAND SPEEDER (50) MULTI MELTA (10) HEAVY FLAMER(10) - [70]
HS1: LAND RAIDER (250) MULTI MELTA (10) EXTRA ARMOUR (15)- [275]
HS2 : PREDATOR(60) AUTOCANNON+ SIDE SPONSON LASCANNONS (60) - [120]
TRANSPORT 1 LAND RAIDER REDEEMER (240) MULI MELTA (10) EXTRA ARMOUR (15) - [265] - ELITE 1
TRANSPORT 2 RAZORBACK (40) TWIN LASCANNON (35) - [75] - Troop 1
TRANSPORT 3 RAZORBACK (40) TWIN LASCANNON (35) - [75] - Troop 2
TRANSPORT 4 RAZORBACK (40) TWIN LASCANNON (35) - [75] - Troop 3
TOTAL [1750]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 4: Jan Karnowski 'yahoo'
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Orks
Transport:
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 1] [55pts]
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 2] [55pts]
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 3] [55pts]
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 4] [55pts]
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 5] [55pts]
chimera + heavy flamer hull [troop 6] [55pts]
1750 on the spot
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisher 2: Lars Bjørn “Dey see meh deff rollin!” Kristensen,
codex Orks
- Big Mek (35, Kustom force field 50, powerklaw 25, 'eavy armour 5) = 115 p.
- Big Mek (35, Kustom force field 50, powerklaw 25, 'eavy armour 5) = 115 p.
Elite
- 3 Meganobz (1 * rokkit, 1 * scorcha) (120, 5, 5) Transport 1 = 130 p.
- 3 Meganobz (1 * rokkit, 1 * scorcha) (120, 5, 5) Transport 2= 130 p.
Troops
- 17 boys (slugga, choppa) (17*6)
- 1 nob (10, powerklaw 25, pole 5) = 148 p.
- 17 boys (slugga, choppa) (17*6)
- 1 nob (10, powerklaw 25, pole 5) = 148 p.
- 18 boys (slugga, choppa) (18*6)
- 1 nob (10, powerklaw 25, pole 5) = 154 p.
Fast Attack
Fast 1: 3 Warbuggies (90, 2 * rokkit launcher 10, 1 * big shoota) = 100 p.
Heavy support
- Battlewagon (90, deff-rolla 20, boarding plank 5, grot riggers 5, 2 * big shoota 10, armour plates 10)
= 145 p.
- Battlewagon (90, deff-rolla 20, boarding plank 5, grot riggers 5, 2 * big shoota 10, armour plates 10)
= 145 p.
- Battlewagon (90, deff-rolla 20, boarding plank 5, grot riggers 5, 2 * big shoota 10, armour plates 10)
= 145 p.
Transport 1, elite 1: Battlewagon (deff-rolla 20, grot riggers 5, 2 * big shoota 10, armour plates 10) = 140
Transport 2, elite 2: Battlewagon (deff-rolla 20, grot riggers 5, 2 * big shoota 10, armour plates 10) = 140
1750 p.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisher 3: Jonas “wonnabe leafblowing” Børven,
codex imperial guard
HQ1: Company command: 4 melta guns. 90
Heavy1: Ordnance battery: Basilisk with heavy flamer 125
Heavy2: Ordnance battery: Basilisk with heavy flamer 125
Heavy3: Hydra flak tanks battery: 2 hydra flak tanks with heavy flamers (2*75) 150
Transporter1: Chimera with heavy flamer HQ 1: Company command squad (55)
Transporter2: Chimera with heavy flamer Troop1: Veteran squad (55)
Transporter3: Chimera with heavy flamer Troop2: Veteran squad (55)
Transporter4: Chimera with heavy flamer Troop3: Platoon command squad (55)
Total: 1750
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisher 4: Benjamin “the twilight werewolf – right in the dick” Madsen,
codex space wolfs
HQ Rune Priest: (100) Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf, Chooser of the Slain (10), Wolf Tail Talisman (5), Melta bombs (5) =120
Rune Priest: (100) Living Lightning, Tempest Wrath, Chooser of the slain (10) Wolf tail Talisman (5), =115
Troops
Troop1: 1 Wolf Guard: Powerfist (20), Combi Melta (5) (43)
8 Grey Hunters: (120) Meltagun (10), Wolf Banner (10), Mark of the Wulfen (15) =193
Transport 1
Troop 2: 1 Wolf Guard: Powerfist (20), Combi Melta (5) (43)
8 Grey Hunters: (120) Meltagun (10), Wolf Banner (10), Mark of the Wulfen (15) =193
Transport 2
Troop 3:1 Wolf Guard: Powerfist (20), Combi Melta (5) (43)
8 Grey Hunters: (120) Meltagun (10), Wolf Banner (10), Mark of the Wulfen (15) =193
Transport 3
Troop4: 1 Wolf Guard: Powerfist (20), Combi Melta (5) (43)
8 Grey Hunters: (120) Meltagun (10), Wolf Banner (10), Mark of the Wulfen (15) =193
Transport 4
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisher 6: Ulrik “Squidman” Hollænder,
codex chaos space marines
Daemon Prince : wings (20), mark of mark of slaanesh (5), lash of submission (20) : 155 pts
Daemon Prince : wings (20), mark of mark of slaanesh (5), lash of submission (20) : 155 pts
Troop
Troop 1: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Troop 2: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Troop 3: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Troop 4: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Troop 5: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Troop 6: 4 bikes + attack bike med multi melta (50), 2 meltaguns (20) og powerfist (25) = 210
Fast
Fast1: 3 attack bikes (3*50) = 150
1750 points
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fisher 8 (surpreme fisherman aka Captain):
Thomas “The twilight vampire” Gade,
codex blood angels
HQ Librarian (100) infernus pistol (15), the sanguine sword, shield of sanguinius 115
HEAVY SUPPORT
Daemon Prince(80) Mark of Tzeentch (25), Daemonic Gaze (20), Bolt of Tzeentch (35) [160]
Daemon Prince(80) Mark of Tzeentch (25), Daemonic Gaze (20), Bolt of Tzeentch (35) [160]
Daemon Prince(80) Mark of Tzeentch (25), Daemonic Gaze (20), Bolt of Tzeentch (35) [160]
———————————————————————
Chaos Space Marines
HQ1 : Daemon Prince (110), Wings (20), Mark of Slaanesh (5), Lash of Submission (20) [155 pts]
HQ2 : Daemon Prince (110), Wings (20), Mark of Slaanesh (5), Lash of Submission (20) [155 pts]
Transport 1: Battlewagon (90), Red Paint Job (5), Armour Plates (10), Boarding Plank (5), Grabbin’ Claw (5), Deff Rolla (20), Big Shoota (5), Transports Troop 1 [140pts]
TOTAL [1749pts]
———————————————————————
Witch Hunters
HQ1 : Cannonnes (45), Eviscerator (25), Book of St. Lucius (5), Cloak of st.Aspira (20), Jumppack (20), Mantle of Ophelia (15), plasma pistol (15). [145pts.]
TROOP 1: Battle Sister Squad 10 (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14) Eviscerator (25), Brazier of Holy Fire (10), Book of St. Lucius (5), Heavy Flamer (12), Meltagun (10) [186pts.]
TROOP 2: Battle Sister Squad 10 (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14), Eviscerator (25), Book of St.Lucius (5), Meltagun (10), Meltagun (10) [174pts.]
TROOP 3: Battle Sister Squad 10 (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14), Book of St. Lucius (5p), Meltagun (10), Meltagun (10) [149pts]
FA 1: Seraphim Squad 7 (154), Veteran Sister Superior (10), Eviscerator (25), Brazier of Holy Fire (10), Twin Hand Flamers (7), Twin Hand Flamers (7), [213pts.]
HS 1: Exorcist(135), Dozer Blades (5) [140pts.]
HS 2: Exorcist(135), Dozer Blades (5) [140pts.]
HS 3: Exorcist(135), Dozer Blades (5) [140pts.]
Transport 1 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3), Transports Troop 1 [58pts.]
Transport 2 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3), Transports Troop 2 [58pts.]
Transport 3 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3), Transports Troop 3 [58pts.]
Transport 1: Chimera (55), Multi Laser (0), Heavy Flamer (0), Transports HQ 1 [55pts]
Transport 2: Chimera (55), Multi Laser (0), Heavy Flamer (0), Transports HQ 2 [55pts]
Transport 3: Chimera (55), Multi Laser (0), Heavy Flamer (0), Transports Troop 2 [55pts]
Elite1 : 8 Bloodcrushers of Khorne (8x40), Standard Bearer(25), Musician(5), Fury of Khorne(10) [360]
Elite2 : 7 Bloodcrushers of Khorne (7x40), Standard Bearer(25), Musician(5), Fury of Khorne(10) [320]
Elite 3 : 6 Fiends of Slaanesh (6x30), Daemonic Strength(10) [190]
Troop 1 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]
Troop 2 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]
Troop 3 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]
HS1: Daemonprince (80), Iron Hide(30), Mark of Slaanesh(10), offensive/defensive Grenades(5), Pavane of Slaanesh(30) [155]
TOTAL [(1750)pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Player2: Roland Zaglauer, vip-user
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines
HQ 1: Daemon Prince (110)+ Wings (20)+ Mark of Slaanesh (5)+ Lash of Submission (20)= 155 pts
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (110)+ Wings (20)+ Mark of Slaanesh (5)+ Lash of Submission (20)= 155 pts
HS1: Manticore (160), hull heavy flamer: [160]
HS2: Manticore (160), hull heavy flamer: [160]
Transport 1: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 2: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 3: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 4: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 5: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
TOTAL [1750pts]
SPAIN
PLAYER 1: José Diego Méndez Díaz. (Boldo)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Wolves
HQ 1: Runic Priest (100), chooser of the slain (10), Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning = [110]
HQ 2: Runic Priest (100) Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous hurricane = [100]
HQ 3: Wolf lord (100), runic armour (20), thunder wolf (45), power fist (25), storm shield (30), Wolf Tail Talisman (5), saga of majesty(15), fenrisian wolf (10) = [250]
Troop 1: 7 Grey hunters (105), Wolf Standard 10), meltagun (5), Transport 1 = [120]
Troop 2: 7 Grey hunters (105), Wolf Standard 10), meltagun (5), Transport 2 = [120]
Troop 3: 10 Grey hunters (150), 2 meltagun (5) = [155]
Transport 1: Land Raider Redeemer (240), Multi-Melta (10), Extra Armour (15) = [265]
Transport 2: Land Raider Redeemer (240), Multi-Melta (10), Extra Armour (15) = [265]
Total: [1750]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 3: David Alegre Castro. (Harridan)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Imperial Guard
HQ 1: Company Command Squad (50) + 3*meltagun (30) + regimental standard (15) = [95 pts], in Transport 1.
HQ 2: Company Command Squad (50) + 4*meltagun (40) = [90 pts].
Elite 1: Psyker Battle Squad (60) + 4 additional Sanctioned Psykers (40) = [100 pts], in Transport 2.
FA 1: Vendetta (130) + 2 Heavy Bolters (10) = [140 pts]
FA 2: Vendetta (130) + 2 Heavy Bolters (10) = [140 pts]
FA 3: Vendetta (130) = [130 pts]
HS 1: Manticore Rocket Launcher, Heavy Flamer = [160 pts]
HS 2: Manticore Rocket Launcher, Heavy Flamer = [160 pts]
Transport 1: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Flamer, Dozer blade (10) = [65 pts]
Transport 2: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 3: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 4: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 5: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 6: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Flamer, Dozer blade (10) = [65 pts]
Total: [1750]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 4: Moisés Ronda Ferrer. (Mohicanoska)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Eldar
Elite 1: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 1
Elite 2: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 2
Elite 3: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 3
Troop 1:9 dire avengers(108), exarch (12) with power weapon and shimmershield (15), defend (15), bladestorm (15) =[165], in Transport 4
Troop 2: 5 dire avengers = [60]
Troop 3: 5 dire avengers = [60]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 5: Alejandro Martín Fernández. (Kult)
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines
HQ 1: Daemon Prince (110) + Wings (20) + Mark of Slaanesh (5) + Lash of Submission (20) = [155]
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (110) + Wings (20) + Mark of Slaanesh (5) + Lash of Submission (20) = [155]
Elite 1: 3 Chaos Terminators (90) + 3x combi-meltagun (15) = [105], in Transport 1
Transport1 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3) = [58]
Transport2 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3), Searchlight (1) = [59]
Transport3 : Land Raider (250), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3) = [258]
TOTAL [1750]
UKRAINE
PLAYER 1: Sergii Polonets , korgan80 TEAM CAPTAIN
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Dark Eldar ( Dark Eldar Codex )
HQ1 : Archon (60) with punisher (20), shadow field (25), combat drugs (25), trophy rack (5), tormentor helm (5) and plasma grenades (2) [142pts]
Elite1 : Wyches, 8 wyches (96) with plasma grenades (8 ), wych weapons (8 ) and 2 blasters (10), wych succubus (8 ), agoniser (20) and trophy rack (5) in transport 1 [155pts]
Elite2 : Wyches, 8 wyches (96) with plasma grenades (8 ), wych weapons (8 ) and 2 blasters (10), wych succubus (8 ), agoniser (20) and trophy rack (5) in transport 2 [155pts]
Elite3 : Wyches, 8 wyches (96) with plasma grenades (8 ), wych weapons (8 ) and 2 blasters (10), wych succubus (8 ), agoniser (20) and trophy rack (5) in transport 3 [155pts]
Troop1 : Warriors, 10 warriors (80) with 2 dark lances (20) [100pts]
Troop2 : Warriors, 10 warriors (80) with 2 dark lances (20) [100pts]
Troop3 : Warriors, 10 warriors (80) with 2 dark lances (20) [100pts]
Troop4 : Raider squad, 5*warriors (40), 1*dark lance (10), in Transport 4 = 50
Troop5 : Raider squad, 5*warriors (40), 1*dark lance (10), in Transport 5 = 50
Heavy Support 1: Ravager (105), night shield (20) = [125pts]
Heavy Support 2: Ravager (105) with 3 disintegrators (15) and night shield (20) [140pts]
Heavy Support 3: Ravager (105) with 3 disintegrators (15) and night shield (20) [140pts]
Transport 1 : Raider with night shield (15) and horrorfex (5) transporting Elite1 [75pts]
Transport 2 : Raider with night shield (15) and horrorfex (5) transporting Elite2 [75pts]
Transport 3 : Raider with night shield (15) and horrorfex (5) transporting Elite3 [75pts]
Transport 4: Raider (55) = [55pts]
Transport 5: Raider (55) = [55pts]
Models in Army: 73
Total Army Cost: 1747
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 2: (Dmitry, Ivanov, Comandor)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : (Imperial Guard Army)
HQ1 : Company Command Squad (50) with 4 Meltagun (10x4=40) [90 pts]
HQ2 : Company Command Squad (50) with 4 Meltagun (10x4=40) on transport 1 [90 pts]
Elite1 : Storm Trooper Squad with 2 meltagun (2x10=20) on transport 2 [105 pts]
Troop 1 : Veteran Squad with 3 meltaguns (3x10=30) on transport 3 [100 pts]
Troop 2 : Veteran Squad with 3 meltaguns (3x10=30) on transport 3 [100 pts]
Troop 3 : Penal Legion squad [80 pts]
FA1: Vendetta Squadron 1 vendetta [130 pts]
FA2: Vendetta Squadron 1 vendetta [130 pts]
HS1: Leman Russ Squadron 2 Leman Russ Demolisher [2x165=330 pts]
HS2: Manticore [160 pts]
HS3: Hydra Battery 3 Hydra [3x75=225 pts]
Transport1 : Chimera with Heavy Flamer (free) [55 pts]
Transport2 : Chimera with Heavy Flamer (free) [55 pts]
Transport3 : Chimera with Heavy Flamer (free) [55 pts]
Transport4 : Chimera with Heavy Flamer (free) [55 pts]
TOTAL [1750 pts]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 3: Kostyantyn Gorokhovskyy, "Dalamar"
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines
HQ1 : 1 Daemon Prince (110) wings (20) Mark of Slaanesh (5) Lash of Submission (20) - [155 pts]
HQ2 : 1 Daemon Prince (110) wings (20) Mark of Slaanesh (5) Lash of Submission (20) - [155 pts]
Elites 1 : 4*Chaos Terminators (120), Heavy Flamer (5), Chainfist (15), 3*combi-melta (15), in Transport 1 = [155 pts]
Troop 1 : 5 Plague Marines (5*23) Icon (5) - [120 pts]
Troop 2 : 5 Plague Marines (5*23) Icon (5) - [120 pts]
Troop 3 : 5 Plague Marines (5*23) - [115 pts]
HS1: 3 Obliterators (3*75) [225 pts]
HS2: 3 Obliterators (3*75) [225 pts]
HS3: Chaos Land Raider (220) demonic possession (20) = [240 pts.]
Transport1 : Chaos Land Raider (220) demonic possession (20) = [240 pts.] for Elites 1
TOTAL [1750 pts]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 4: Sergey, Leschenko, Tur79
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Orks (codex Orks)
HQ1 : Warboss (60), Power Klaw (25); Shoota/Skorcha (5); Attack Squig (15); Cybork Body(10); Warbike(40); [155 pts]
HQ2 : Big Mek(35), Kustom force field (50) [85 pts]
Elite1 : 15 Lootas(15*15=225) [225 pts]
Elite2 : 15 Lootas(15*15=225) [225 pts]
Troop 1 : 18 Ork Boyz (18*6=108), Nob (16) with Power Klaw (25) and Bosspole (5); [154]
Troop 2 : 17 Ork Boyz (17*6=102), Nob (16) with Power Klaw (25) and Bosspole (5); [148]
Troop 3 : 6 Nobz (20*6=120) with 6 Warbikes (6*25=150), 6 Shoota/Skorcha (6*5=30), 6 Cybork Bodies (6*5=30), 3 Power Klaw (3*25=75), 2 Big Choppa (2*5=10), 2 Bosspole (2*5=10) Waaagh! banner (15) and and 6 stikkbomb (6*1=6) [446];
and Painboy (50) with Warbike (25), Cybork Bodie 5 and stikkbomb (1) [81]
HS1: Battlewagon(90) with Deff rolla (20), Red paint job (2) [115]
HS2: Battlewagon(90) with Deff rolla (20), Red paint job (2) [115]
TOTAL [(1749)pts]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 5: Vladyslav Pavlov, Master Blood Vlad
ARMY DESCRIPTION : TAU Empire
Troop1 : ASSAULT SQUAD (100+5x18), 9 space marine with 2 melta (2x10) and 1 space marine sergeant with a power fist (25) [235pts]
Troop2 : ASSAULT SQUAD (100), 4 space marine and 1 space marine sergeant [100pts] in TRANSPORT 1
Troop3 : ASSAULT SQUAD (100), 4 space marine with 1 flamer (5) and 1 space marine sergeant [105pts] in TRANSPORT 2
Troop4 : ASSAULT SQUAD (100), 4 space marine with 1 melta (10) and 1 space marine sergeant with a power fist (25) [135pts] in TRANSPORT 3
FA1: ATTACK BIKE SQUAD 3 attack bike (3x40) with 3 multi-melta (3x10) [150pts]
FA2: BAAL PREDATOR (115) side sponsons: heavy bolters (30) [145pts]
FA3: BAAL PREDATOR (115) side sponsons: heavy bolters (30) [145pts]
HS1: PREDATOR (70) side sponsons: two lascanon (65) [135pts]
HS2: PREDATOR (70) side sponsons: two lascanon (65) [135pts]
HS3: PREDATOR (70) side sponsons: two lascanon (65) [135pts]
PLAYER: Jukka Halme
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines
HQ1: Daemon prince (110) Wings (20) Mark of Slaanesh (5) Lash of submission (20) [155]
HQ2: Daemon prince (110) Wings (20) Mark of Slaanesh (5) Lash of submission (20) [155]
Elite2: Chosen chaos space marines (18*5) 2x Meltagun (10*2) [110]
Fast1: Attack Bike Squad (40*1) multi-melta (10) [50]
Fast2: Attack Bike Squad (40*1) multi-melta (10) [50]
Fast3: Scout Bike Squad (70) 2x additional Scout biker (20*2) power fist (25) [135]
Heavy1: Predator (70) side sponsons with lascannons (65) [135]
Heavy2: Predator (70) side sponsons with lascannons (65) [135]
Heavy3: Predator (70) side sponsons with lascannons (65) [135]
PLAYER: Juhani Orelma
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Wolves
HQ1 : Rune Priest (100) Chooser of the Slain (10) Living Lightning (0) Jaws of the World Wolf (0) [110]
HQ2 : Rune Priest (100) Chooser of the Slain (10) Bolter (0) Living Lightning (0) Murderous Hurricane (0) [110]
Elite1 : Wolf Scouts (15*5) Meltagun (10) Mark of the Wulfen (15) [100]
Elite2 : Dreadnought [105]
Elite3 : Dreadnought [105]
Fast1: Attack Bike Squad (40*1) multi-melta (10) [50]
Fast2: Attack Bike Squad (40*1) multi-melta (10) [50]
Fast3: Attack Bike Squad (40*1) multi-melta (10) [50]
Heavy1: Predator (60) side sponsons with lascannons (60) [120]
Heavy2: Predator (60) side sponsons with lascannons (60) [120]
Heavy3: Predator (60) side sponsons with lascannons (60) [120]
PLAYER 1: Noé Woner, "Wilme" (Captain)
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Eldars
HQ1: Farseer (55), with witchblade & shuriken pistol (0), eldar jetbike (30), runes of warding (15), spirit stones (20), "Fortune" (30), "Guide" (20), "Doom" (25) [195pts]
HQ2: Farseer (55), with witchblade & shuriken pistol (0), eldar jetbike (30), runes of witnessing (10), "Fortune" (30), "Guide" (20) [145pts]
HQ2b: Seer council, 7 Warlocks (7x25=175), eldar jetbikes (7x20=140), 7 witchblades & shuriken pistols (7x0=0), 2 "Embolden" (2x5=10), 1 "Enhance" (15) [340pts]
Elite1: 5 Fire Dragons (5x16=80) in Transport 1 [80pts]
Troop 1: 3 Eldar guardians on jetbike (3x22=66) [66pts]
Troop 2: 3 Eldar guardians on jetbike (3x22=66) [66pts]
Troop 3: 3 Eldar guardians on jetbike (3x22=66) [66pts]
Troop 4: 5 Dire Avengers (5x12=60) in Transport 2 [60pts]
Troop 1: Ork Boyz, 29 Shootaboyz (29x6=174) with 3 Rokkit Launchas (3x10=30), Nob (6+10+25=41) with Slugga and Powerklaw (25) [245pts]
Troop 2: Ork Boyz, 29 Shootaboyz (29x6=174) with 3 Rokkit Launchas (3x10=30), Nob (6+10+25=41) with Slugga and Powerklaw (25) [245pts]
Troop 3: Ork Boyz, 29 Shootaboyz (29x6=174) with 3 Rokkit Launchas (3x10=30), Nob (6+10+25=41) with Slugga and Powerklaw (25) [245pts]
Troop 4: Gretchins, 15 Gretchins (15x3=45), Runterd (10) [55pts]
HS1: 3 Killa Kans (3x35=105) with 3 Big Shootas (3x5=15) [120pts]
HS2: Battlewagon (90) with Deff Rolla (20), 4 Big Shootas (4x5=20), Stikkbomb Chukka (5), Armour Plates (10), Grot Rigger (5) [150pts]
HS3: Battlewagon (90) with Deff Rolla (20), 4 Big Shootas (4x5=20), Stikkbomb Chukka (5), Armour Plates (10), Grot Rigger (5) [150pts]
TOTAL [1750pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 4: Mathieu Trosset, throst
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines
HQ1: Chaos Sorcerer (100), Mark of Slaanesh (5), Lash of Submission (20), Wings (20) [145pts]
Elite 1: 5 Chosen Chaos Space Marines (5x18=90), 3 meltaguns (3x10=30), 2 flamers (2x5=10) [130pts] in Transport 1
Elite 2: 5 Chosen Chaos Space Marines (5x18=90), 3 meltaguns (3x10=30), 2 flamers (2x5=10) [130pts] in Transport 2
Troop 1: 6 Khorne Berzerkers (6x21=126), skull champion (15) with power fist (25) [166pts] in Transport 3
Troop 2: 6 Khorne Berzerkers (6x21=126), skull champion (15) with power fist (25) [166pts] in Transport 4
Troop 3: 5 Plague Marines (5x23=115), 2 meltaguns (2x10=20) [135pts] in Transport 5
Troop 4: 5 Plague Marines (5x23=115), 2 meltaguns (2x10=20) [135pts] in Transport 6
Troop 5: 5 Chaos Space Marines (5x15=75), meltagun (10), [85pts] in Transport 7
Transport 1: Rhino (35). Transporting Elite 1 [35pts]
Transport 2: Rhino (35). Transporting Elite 2 [35pts]
Transport 3: Rhino (35), twin-linked bolters (5). Transporting Troop 1 [40pts]
Transport 4: Rhino (35), twin-linked bolters (5). Transporting Troop 2 [40pts]
Transport 5: Rhino (35). Transporting Troop 3 [35pts]
Transport 6: Rhino (35). Transporting Troop 4 [35pts]
Transport 7: Rhino (35). Transporting Troop 5 [35pts]
Transport 8: Rhino (35). Transporting Heavy Support 1 [35pts]
TOTAL [1747pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 5: Julien d'Huvout, "Lestat"
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Space Wolves
HQ1: Rune priest (100), "Living lightning" (0), "Jaws of the world wolf" (0), chooser of the slain (10), Wolf tail talisman (5) [115pts]
HQ2: Rune priest (100), "Living lightning" (0), "Murderous Hurricane" (0), chooser of the slain (10) [110pts]
Troop 1: 5 Grey Hunters (5x15=75), meltagun (5), Wolf Standard (10), in Transport 1 [90pts]
Troop 2: 5 Grey Hunters (5x15=75), meltagun (5), Wolf Standard (10), in Transport 2 [90pts]
Troop 3: 5 Grey Hunters (5x15=75), meltagun (5), Wolf Standard (10), in Transport 3 [90pts]
Troop 4: 5 Grey Hunters (5x15=75), Flamer (0), Wolf Standard (10), in Transport 4 [85pts]
Troop 5: 5 Grey Hunters (5x15=75), Flamer (0), in Transport 5 [75pts]
Heavy Support 1: 2 long fangs (2x15=30), 1 squad leader (15), 2 multimeltas (2x10=20), in transport 6 [65pts]
Heavy Support 2: 2 long fangs (2x15=30), 1 squad leader (15), 2 multimeltas (2x10=20), in transport 7 [65pts]
Heavy Support 3: 5 long fangs (5x15=75), 1 squad leader (15), 5 Heavy Bolters (5x5=25), in transport 8 [115pts]
Transport 1: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5). Transporting Troop 1 [40pts]
Transport 2: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5). Transporting Troop 2 [40pts]
Transport 3: Razorback (40), lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun (35), dozer Blade (5). Transporting Troop 3 [80pts]
Transport 4: Razorback (40), lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun (35). Transporting Troop 4 [75pts]
Transport 5: Razorback (40), lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun (35). Transporting Troop 5 [75pts]
Transport 6: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5). Transporting Heavy Support 1 [40 pts]
Transport 7: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5). Transporting Heavy Support 2 [40 pts]
Transport 8: Razorback (40), lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun (35). Transporting Heavy Support 3 [75pts]
Total [1747pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 6: Arnaud Monvoisin, Shas'O Kassad
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Tau Empire
HQ 1: Shas'o (75) with fusion blaster (12), missile pod (12), positional relay (15), hard-wired multi-tracker (5), hard-wired target lock (5), bonding knife (5), hard-wired blacksun filter (3) and hard-wired drone controler(0) with 2 shield drones (2x15=30) [162pts]
HQ 1b: Shas'Vre (35) with twin-linked missile pod (18), airbursting fragmentation projector (20), hard-wired multi-tracker (5) [78pts]
HQ 2: Shas'O (75) with fusion blaster (12), missile pod (12), plasma rifle (20), hard-wired multi-tracker (5), hard-wired target lock (5), bonding knife (5), hard-wired blacksun filter (3) and hard-wired drone controler (0) with one gun drone (10) and one shield drone (15) [162pts]
Elite 1: Ta'rocha 2 XV-8 Crisis (25x2=50) [158pts]
Elite 1a: Team leader (5), fusion blaster (12) and missile pod (12), targeting array (10), hard-wired multi-tracker (5), bonding knife (5) and hard-wired drone controler (0) with two shield drones (2x15=30)
Elite 1b: fusion blaster (12), missile Pod (12) and multi-tracker (5)
Troop 1: Veteran squad (70), 3 Meltaguns (3x10=30), "demolitions" (30). Sergeant with powerfist (15) [145pts]
Troop 2: Veteran squad (70), 3 Meltaguns (3x10=30). Sergeant with powerfist (15) in Transport 2 [115pts]
Troop 3a: Platoon command squad (30), 3 Meltaguns (3x10=30), 1 flamer (5) in Transport 3 [65pts]
Troop 3b: Infantry squad (50). Autocanon (10), Meltagun (10), Sergeant with power weapon (10) and commissar (35) with power weapon (10) [125pts]
Troop 3c: Infantry squad (50). Autocanon (10), Meltagun (10), Sergeant with power weapon (10) [80pts]
Fast Attack 1: Rough rider squad (55), +2 additional rough riders (2x10=20) [75pts]
Fast Attack 2: Rough rider squad (55), +2 additional rough riders (2x10=20) [75pts]
Fast Attack 3 : Vendetta gunship with 3 twin-linked lascanons (3x0=0) [130pts]
HS 1: 2 Hydra Flak Tanks (2x75=150) with heavy bolter [150pts]
HS 2: 2 Hydra Flak Tanks (2x75=150) with heavy bolter [150pts]
HS 3: Manticore Rocket Launcher (160) with Heavy Flamer [160pts]
Transport1: Chimera (55) with multilaser and heavy flamer [55pts]
Transport2: Chimera (55) with multilaser and heavy flamer [55pts]
Transport3: Chimera (55) with multilaser and heavy flamer [55pts]
Total [1750pts]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLAYER 8: Ronzier Mikael, fire.mike
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Witch Hunters
HQ1: Canoness (45), brazier of holy fire (10), eviscerator (25), book of st. Lucius (5), cloak of st. Aspira (20), jump pack (20), mantle of Ophelia (15) [140pts]
HQ2: Canoness (45), brazier of holy fire (10), eviscerator (25), book of st. Lucius (5), cloak of st. Aspira (20), jump pack (20) [125pts]
Elite1: Celestian squad (5x13=65), 2 meltaguns (2x10=20), veteran superior (10) with eviscerator (25) and book of st. Lucius (5) [125pts] in transport1
Troop 1: Battle sisters squad (10x11=110), 1 meltagun (10), 1 heavy flamer (12), veteran superior (14) with eviscerator (25) and book of st. Lucius (5) [176pts] in transport2
Troop 2: Battle sisters squad (10x11=110), 1 meltagun (10), 1 heavy flamer (12), veteran superior (14) with Brazier of holy fire (10) and book of st. Lucius (5) [161pts] in transport3
Troop 3: Inquisitorial storm troopers (5x10=50), 2 meltaguns (2x10=20) [70pts] in transport4
Troop 4: Inquisitorial storm troopers (5x10=50), 2 meltaguns (2x10=20) [70pts] in transport5
FA1: Dominion squad (5x11=55), 4 flamers (4x9=36), veteran superior (14) with book of st. Lucius (5) [110pts] in transport6
Elite 1 : Harlequins(6 x 18) Kiss(5 x 4), Shadow Seer (52), Death Jester (28) = 208;
Elite 2 : Harlequins(7 x 18) Kiss(6 x 4), Shadow Seer (52), Death Jester (28) = 230;
Elite 3 : Fire Dragons (5 x 16) = 80;
Troops 1 : Guardians (10 x Cool with Bright Lance (30) = 110
Troops 2 : Guardians (10 x Cool with Bright Lance (30) = 110
Troops 3 : Jet bikes (3 x 22) with Shuriken Cannon (10) = 76
Troops 4 : Jet bikes (3 x 22) with Shuriken Cannon (10) = 76
HS1: Falcon (115) with Holo-Field (35), Spirit Stones (10), Bright Lance (30) = 190;
HS2: Wraith lord (100) with Bright Lance (30) ,Missile Launcher (25), 2*Flamer (0) = 155;
HS3: War Walker (3 x 30) with Scatter Lasers (6 x 15) = 180;
Total: 1748
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines
Mariusz "Marios" Krakowczyk
HQ1 : Deamon Prince(110): Wings(20), Mark of Slaanesh(5), Lash of Submission(20) [Total 155]
HQ2 : Deamon Prince(110): Wings(20), Mark of Slaanesh(5), Lash of Submission(20) [Total 155]
Elite1 : 3 Chaos Terminators(30): Reaper Autocannon(25), 2 Combi-Plasma(2*5) in Transport 1 [Total 125]
Troop 1 : 5 Plague Marines(23): 2 Meltaguns (2*10) in Transport 2 [Total 135]
Troop 2 : 5 Plague Marines(23): 2 Meltaguns (2*10), Personal Icon (5) in Transport 3 [Total 140]
Troop 3 : 5 Chaos Space Marines(15) [Total 75]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space wolves
Krzysztof "Evil" Białek
HQ2 : Wolf Lord, Runic Armour (20), Thunderwolf Mount (45), Wolftooth Neclkace (10), Wolftail Talisman (5), Saga of the Majesty (15), Power Fist (25), Storm Shield (30) - Total 250
HQ2 : Wolf Lord, Runic Armour (20), Thunderwolf Mount (45), Wolftooth Necklace (10), Wolftail Talisman (5), Saga of the Warrior Born (35), Frost Blade (25), Storm Shield (30) - Total 270
HQ3 : Rune Priest, Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning, Chooser of the Slain (10) - Total 110
HQ3 : Rune Priest, Murderous Huricane, Living Lightning, Chooser of the Slain (10), Bolter - Total 110
Elite1 : 5 Wolf Guard (18), 2 x Power Fist (20), 2 x Combi Melta (5), TDA (15), Cyclon Missile Launcher (30) - Total 185
Troop 1 : 7 Grey Hunters (15), Wolf Standard (10), Melta Gun (5) - Total 120, Transport 1
Troop 2 : 7 Grey Hunters (15), Wolf Standard (10), Melta Gun (5) - Total 120, Transport 2
Troop 3 : 5 Grey Hunters (15), Flamer (0) - Total 75
FA1: 10 Fenrisian Wolves (Cool - Total 80
HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115
HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115
HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115
I think there are a lot of gaps in the lists being fielded by a lot of teams and more than a few huh? moments but since it seems like everyone isn't bringing the toughest lists they can Team "America" should do alright
We need to get like 3 teams together like England does
Oh I understand that Olympia. As i stated earlier in the thread I get that match-up issues can be mitigated. But even so there are some lists that are almost scary sad...And there are a few really nice lists. And then the majority to me scream sub-par. But then again my preferred list screams sub-par to many people but does just fine by me
Hulksmash wrote:Oh I understand that Olympia. As i stated earlier in the thread I get that match-up issues can be mitigated. But even so there are some lists that are almost scary sad...And there are a few really nice lists. And then the majority to me scream sub-par. But then again my preferred list screams sub-par to many people but does just fine by me
Are allies allowed? And standard scenarios, right? I am happy to see the kan walls.
I think that is a good ruling by their council of captains. Very fair that one indeed. I would have liked to see special characters but it is what it is.
I'm real curious to hear Team America's matchup strategy. Which lists are they going to wager for the first few pairing? Which lists are intended to 'counter' others, for replying to the other's wagers?
I suspect there will be a lot of games barely worth playing due to one lists being specifically designed to stomp it's opponent.
If that's what the Euro population *REALLY* believes it is, why not just actually PLAY rock-paper-scissors, over a laid back / casual game or three of 40k? Cheaper, that's for sure.
The Grog wrote:I'm real curious to hear Team America's matchup strategy. Which lists are they going to wager for the first few pairing? Which lists are intended to 'counter' others, for replying to the other's wagers?
The Grog wrote:I'm real curious to hear Team America's matchup strategy. Which lists are they going to wager for the first few pairing? Which lists are intended to 'counter' others, for replying to the other's wagers?
Yeah, I'd like to hear all about this too
Well since you asked so nicely:
Before every matchup decision we will call up Chuck Norris on the phone and ask him what we should do. His answer is always the same words: "Round house kick them in the face", but the subtle inflections in his voice change depending on the army dynamics. These clues let us interpret his will, and pair our players accordingly.
The European Team Championship is named as is and probably will remained named so for historical reasons, but Australia already has attended last year in the WFB team event.
The vote to ban characters was clear but there was more support in favour of no ban than has transpired here :
Ban All Characters :
- Poland
- Germany
- Belgium
- Belarus
- Faroe Islands
- Austria
- Northern Ireland
- Slovakia
- Sweden
- Hungary
- Scotland
- Russia
Ban None:
- England
- Denmark
- Wales
- France
- Finland
- USA
I personnaly hope we can turn the tide next year too.
I've read some questions raised about Canada attending, which has rung my bell since we're always looking for new attending country (beware team Sealand and Vatican have already been pointed to the door ) Personnaly I've been contacted earlier this year by a couple guys willing to attend in 40k team Canada ( nicks carlosthecraven and spark85 on the official ETC forum) but have received no news since. So If you guys know of any Canuck motivated / willing for 2011 ETC please direct them towards the official ETC forums
I can't wait to see how the US community is going to organize selections for next year. Selection based off rankings is imo limited as team play is very different from individual play, personnaly I'd recommend to hold a team event based on the same principles of pairing as it is also the best possible training for the future team. Italy and France have been holding such "qualifier" team tournament for a coupla years now. Other major nations who have different ways of selecting their crew have incorporated pairing-based team events for a while (Germany, Sweden, Poland).
I suppose that is when I congratulate again Spacecurves and his chaps for joining the fray, and wish them good luck in Munster to make the USA proud ;-)
So can the USA bring more than one team next year? I'm just curious since unless I'm missing something significant in how the governements of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland work they are the equivelant of our States. Granted that is only based on a little light research into the UK political system after a discussion with the wife brought it up
Glad to see which teams voted for and against SC's being Banned. Anyone on the Banned-non list gets a +1 from me! Hope Canada can make it next year too. Good luck to everyone playing and involved.
chtiofonce wrote:I suppose that is when I congratulate again Spacecurves and his chaps for joining the fray, and wish them good luck in Munster to make the USA proud ;-)
Thank you for your overly unconfrontational, politically correct post, you've permanently crushed part of my desire to destroy Europeans with little toy men.
But don't worry, I REALLY wanted to crush Europeans, so I should be fine.
As far as country representation is concerned I recommend you the read of the ETC charter.
@SilentBob367
Now I'll have to embarass you with your captains sincerity
Spacecurves wrote:We don't actually think you europeans are bad players, we don't think europe is the third world, we don't actually expect to win every game
But if you want me to bite were it hurts, then I shall :
How does it feel to be the only country to field wraithguard at ETC this year ? And warpspiders ?
Same question for fast attack ork bikes ? What do you think of the fact that USA is the only team along with Czech Republic to be fielding a mighty Mawloc ? Shall I mention also the 23 noise marines...or maybe not, Russia has 5 of those after all...
But aren't all members of the Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and England members of the United Kingdom which is the primary government for all of those provinces/countries? Just seems interesting to me that the UK gets 4 teams in the ETC while every other primary government makes due with one
chtiofonce wrote:As far as country representation is concerned I recommend you the read of the ETC charter.
@SilentBob367
Now I'll have to embarass you with your captains sincerity
Spacecurves wrote:We don't actually think you europeans are bad players, we don't think europe is the third world, we don't actually expect to win every game
But if you want me to bite were it hurts, then I shall :
How does it feel to be the only country to field wraithguard at ETC this year ? And warpspiders ?
Same question for fast attack ork bikes ? What do you think of the fact that USA is the only team along with Czech Republic to be fielding a mighty Mawloc ? Shall I mention also the 23 noise marines...or maybe not, Russia has 5 of those after all...
How dare you make me look like a reasonable individual! ;P Quoting me out of context like that, the follow up post was:
Spacecurves wrote:
*cough* sorry I don't know what came over me, what I meant was:
"YIPPI KAYAAAAAY MOTHER******! SUCK DOWN THAT TABLING WITH A HEALTHY SIDE OF BUSH DOCTRINE!"
As for our unit selection, if our armies are truly terrible, what will that mean when we trounce you with them? Could it be, that americans....play...with....SKILL!??? No that would be crazy talk!
Sorry if i sound dumn what is ETC? from reading this thread sounds almost like a world cup of warhammer!? Im kinda psyched for this. wheres a good place to get news/updates about it when it starts?
But aren't all members of the Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and England members of the United Kingdom which is the primary government for all of those provinces/countries? Just seems interesting to me that the UK gets 4 teams in the ETC while every other primary government makes due with one
They are seperate countries. It was the heroic English football team that managed to pull out the draw against the USA, not the British.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IHEARTLARGEBLASTTEMPLATES wrote:Sorry if i sound dumn what is ETC? from reading this thread sounds almost like a world cup of warhammer!? Im kinda psyched for this. wheres a good place to get news/updates about it when it starts?
You might want to read the last few posts again...
It just seems like the term country is a little different from where I'm sitting. I view the UK/Great Britain as the country. As that is the overall government of the listed regions. Not to be offensive or to step on national pride at all. I understand they are countries and are granted an amount of autonomy politically. But they are all members of the Great Britain/United Kingdom government.
But does Scotland send a team to the Olympics? Or Wales? Or Northern Ireland? Only Great Britain sends a team to the Olympics. Or to use your example only "England" sent a soccer team to the World Cup. Could Scotland also send one? In all honesty they seem no different than a state in the US.
Athletics is one of the few places you will actually see a team GB. Football, rugby, cricket hell even American football it's split by England/Scotland/Wales/n Ireland.
From wiki 'The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.[12] Officially England and Scotland are countries, Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is a province'
So it's not the same as states, each part has it's on separate government (though west minister is still the top one), Scotland has it's own legal system. In Wales all the road signs are in welsh as well as English.
Looking from the outside you would probably assume its just like states but no it's defiantly not.
Except to be honest with you our state governments provide the same services as your country governments. Our states have laws that as long as they don't violate the United States Constitution that they are allowed to pass. New Mexico is a bi-lingual state by law.
You sports analogy falls a little short because when the rest of the world competes the United Kingdom is only allowed one team Like I said. I realize that they are countries and that people have national pride. But the same can be said for Texans and Californians Which rate quite high globally (higher than the UK as a whole) as their own nations as far as their GDP goes.
Hulksmash - you are aware that the world cup has a qualifying stage, starting well in advance? Its why it is called the world cup *finals*
That is why Scotland "didnt send a team" -they didnt qualify for the finals.
Every sport apart from the olympics is England / Scotland etc, sometimes we send a "team GB" to specific events (certain rugby invitationals, for example), but these are the exception.
It appears that most participating teams have posted their army lists at YTTH.
Well, most of the lists are absolutely bad, especially Team America and Team Germany.
Stelek's comments
Hulksmash wrote:So can the USA bring more than one team next year?
If not, you're welcome to join Team Canada next year, Brad.
All we ask is that you learn the National Anthem, drink Maple Syrup like water, adopt a baby polar bear, and swear your undying allegiance to the Queen.
Oh, aboot and eh become mandatory in sentences, as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nosferatu1001 wrote:Least said about steleks opinions the better i think....
I'm not sure whether its a lack of SCs or people trying to list balance within teams, but nothing screams out as the "hardest" list...
Why? He's absolutely right about the lists. Most of them range from terrible to "the hell is this?", the only exception being Denmark, and even they brought a Lash list.
What's even worse is that those Lash lists are going to thrive in the ETC because most of the players don't seem to understand that 5th edition is the "you bring transports or you lose" edition.
Why? He's absolutely right about the lists. Most of them range from terrible to "the hell is this?", the only exception being Denmark, and even they brought a Lash list.
What's even worse is that those Lash lists are going to thrive in the ETC because most of the players don't seem to understand that 5th edition is the "you bring transports or you lose" edition.
you are completely wrong about the "need transports" theory. sure meching up makes it easier for a bad general to scrape out wins. they are not needed by a good general with a good feel for his list. transport heavy army is at a huge disadvantage in killpoint mission compared to a foot list. and objective missions can be countered as the guys in transports are headed the same place you are. lash works just fine once you pop the transport.
I would be willing to bet that if you put a list together and then they got to pick one of the america's list to play against it, you would lose.
Some Guy in a third world country wrote:@SilentBob367
Now I'll have to embarass you with your captains sincerity
Hmmm... so when is this harsh embarrassment coming? All you did was list a bunch of awesome units... that would, in my opinion, be part of a much larger even more awesome army. So when ever you crazy French people get around to embarrassing me I’ll be standing by, which I can only assume is farting in my general direction, or what ever you do.
BTW you know I set both minimum and maximum goals for the event. Maximum is of course winning the tournament. Minimum is to place high then the French... I mean I'm American, I have dignity to protect, I can't have the French be better then Americans at anything associated with War.
But hey I’ll shoot you strait, you did give us Democracy and the Blow Job. So mad props all around.
But aren't all members of the Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and England members of the United Kingdom which is the primary government for all of those provinces/countries? Just seems interesting to me that the UK gets 4 teams in the ETC while every other primary government makes due with one
Wales, Scotland, northern ireland, and england are different countries. being an american that lived on the border of england and wales for a few years, this becomes quite clear. stating that they are the same country in certian pubs can lead to you getting your head kicked in. they have seperate goverments with seperate banks and languages ect ect ect.
Doesn't change the fact that they all have a single primary government. And on the world stage act as a single nation (diplomatically). Their a nation built from several countries. Same could be said for the US. I mean California and Texas were both countries (albiet short lived) before they accepted state status. Call a Texan a New Yorker and see how he reacts in some bars in Texas
Silent Bob - is was fun beating you that last round! 8 really good players with lists that ignored the conventional wisdom of the meta-game. (I should add we beat a very good mech guard leaf blower style list round 3).
To add some weight, I won Astronomi-con Toronto with no transport, and the final Canadian GT in 2009 with a Tau list that featured one Devilfish for my pathfinders.
Since Team Canada has been mentioned...
I was heading up the Team Canada Fantasy Team and we got the ball rolling last September. I chose fantasy based on the fact that my closest gaming friends prefer WFB to 40K, despite being more competent at 40K. Things went both good and bad from there.
I very quickly had 8 people commit, with a 6 player waiting list. Unfortunately, life got in the way for many of our team members.
For myself, the ailing health of my father through the winter and spring has resulted in major changes for me, including a vast increase in work, taking on the responsibilities of running the family farm in addition to my full time job. Life and responsibility occassionally needs to outweigh playing with toy soldiers.
For others, the economic crisis has impacted them - one can't find a well-paying job inthe area he is in, the other can't afford to give up his job as he is fresh out of school. One choose to buy into a house rather than go... etc, etc.
The upside is that we still have a fantasy team going, but it is vastly changed. Adam Clark has stepped up to captain the team and should do us proud.
I won't be up to organizing a team in the immediate future, but if someone does and he/she is looking for a 40K player with decent street cred in Ontario, I would consider taking part in 2011.
thanks for the help on winning non-mech lists.
la hard boyz final won by demons. no transports there
put up your list that will defeat team america, bunker.
go ahead. I'll wait.........
a mech heavy list is one way to build a list but it is not the best or only way to build an army.
Blackmoor won the Wildwest shootout last fall. 60+ players and 5 games over 2 days. He had one falcon, the lone vehicle that could be called a transport.
Sorry, I don't play in tournaments that use their own rules.
really that is the best you can come up with? so basically your point is these lists are crap but you will not make a better list as you don't agree with the rules though you are completely able to make a list that will cause team america to concede before a die is thrown.
Why exactly wouldn't the Adepticon Team Tournament count?
Is it large enough?
110 teams or 440 players - check
Is it competitive?
Big Fish Players drawn out of their small ponds to play in a truly North American event. I certainly think so.
"did soft scores make up for poor play by the winners?" - While our soft scores were excellent, aside from the quiz, We did go 7-1-0 (W-T-L) and were first overall for generalship.
skkipper wrote:
really that is the best you can come up with?
Right. Because "AMG MAEK A LIST THET WILL BAET THEM"" is a super-strong argument.
0/10.
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carlosthecraven wrote:Hi
Why exactly wouldn't the Adepticon Team Tournament count?
Is it large enough?
110 teams or 440 players - check
Is it competitive?
Big Fish Players drawn out of their small ponds to play in a truly North American event. I certainly think so.
"did soft scores make up for poor play by the winners?" - While our soft scores were excellent, aside from the quiz, We did go 7-1-0 (W-T-L) and were first overall for generalship.
Cheers,
Nate
Players not playing in the big tournament =/= "big fish players".
It doesn't count because team format (much like the ETC format) is a gimmick
your response should have been I don't play in gimmicky events any more.
Wow, congrats on being a creepy internet stalker of someone you don't know.
Good to see you have the time in your busy day to do that.
Like I said, your argument of "omg then make a better list" is just you not having an actual point to make and blindly defending bad lists and a silly format.
Would you also like the ETC to have painting and sportmanship scores? That way the lists can be explained away as at least being "fluffy"?
Actually, I will indulge your little tantrum. Here's a list that will negate lynchpin of every Chaos list being played:
HQ (transport or join a squad and hijack theirs)
Troops (transports)
3 Heavy Support (Preds, Russes, whatever you'd like here)
3 Fast Attack (Speeders, Valks/Vendettas, again whatever you'd like)
3 Elites (dreads, PSB in chimera, and on and on and on...)
That leaves you with some points to do whatever you want with other vehciles.
Oh look, I've magically rendered one list from each country useless. And that isn't even counting the lists that they made useless themselves.
Actually, I will indulge your little tantrum. Here's a list that will negate lynchpin of every Chaos list being played:
HQ (transport or join a squad and hijack theirs)
Troops (transports)
3 Heavy Support (Preds, Russes, whatever you'd like here)
3 Fast Attack (Speeders, Valks/Vendettas, again whatever you'd like)
3 Elites (dreads, PSB in chimera, and on and on and on...)
That leaves you with some points to do whatever you want with other vehciles.
Oh look, I've magically rendered one list from each country useless. And that isn't even counting the lists that they made useless themselves.
Are we done here? Because I think we are.
Except you won't ever be matched against a Chaos list to "nullify" them, and your opponents will put you up against a dedicated anti-tank list...you lose. With this team tournament it adds the dimension (that you call a gimmick) that you need to analyze the lists as a set, not individually. Its like evaluating how efficient two similar models from different codex's are based on a direct comparison. At its most basic level analysis will look at individual pieces, proper analysis will look at the whole and the meta information that the whole attempts to leverage for advantage.
I do not expect that these lists were made in isolation from each other.
But if all your teams are heavy mech then you might lose the one game to another teams anti-tank while you auto-win against the anti-horde army and then it's probable that you'll win more than half of the remaining games because people didn't expect that much heavy mech. See how easy it is to break the system?
Actually, I will indulge your little tantrum. Here's a list that will negate lynchpin of every Chaos list being played:
HQ (transport or join a squad and hijack theirs)
Troops (transports)
3 Heavy Support (Preds, Russes, whatever you'd like here)
3 Fast Attack (Speeders, Valks/Vendettas, again whatever you'd like)
3 Elites (dreads, PSB in chimera, and on and on and on...)
That leaves you with some points to do whatever you want with other vehciles.
Oh look, I've magically rendered one list from each country useless. And that isn't even counting the lists that they made useless themselves.
Are we done here? Because I think we are.
Except you won't ever be matched against a Chaos list to "nullify" them, and your opponents will put you up against a dedicated anti-tank list...you lose. With this team tournament it adds the dimension (that you call a gimmick) that you need to analyze the lists as a set, not individually. Its like evaluating how efficient two similar models from different codex's are based on a direct comparison. At its most basic level analysis will look at individual pieces, proper analysis will look at the whole and the meta information that the whole attempts to leverage for advantage.
I do not expect that these lists were made in isolation from each other.
Later,
WR
This goes back to my comment about the ETC being silly and a gimmick.
If you want to talk about "on the whole", then please don't ignore the facts that a) I made an all comers list, which is what you should do when you don't know exactly what you're facing (because list tailoring makes you look like a dink and you wouldn't know what your matchups are at the ETC until the captains pick them anyways) and b) the list as I posted it still has a bunch of points to spend on other stuff. so you can still "dedicate" if you want.
As for meta, when lists are as bass-ackwards as they are at the ETC, and you are basically having your opponent picked for you, or vice-versa, there becomes very little of anything that could be described as a meta. Gimmick tournaments throw "meta" out the window, that's kind of their whole point, to give bad lists a chance by changing the rules.
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Hulksmash wrote:But if all your teams are heavy mech then you might lose the one game to another teams anti-tank while you auto-win against the anti-horde army and then it's probable that you'll win more than half of the remaining games because people didn't expect that much heavy mech. See how easy it is to break the system?
This, this A MILLION TIMES THIS.
You can easily stack the odds in your favor and against "heavy anti-mech" by just playing mech in every list. You'll lose maybe one game out of your series and probably walk away with the rest as massacres.
Gaming a system like this is just as easy as gaming one with soft scores. This is why playing ETC40k is bad.
Except you won't ever be matched against a Chaos list to "nullify" them, and your opponents will put you up against a dedicated anti-tank list...you lose. With this team tournament it adds the dimension (that you call a gimmick) that you need to analyze the lists as a set, not individually. Its like evaluating how efficient two similar models from different codex's are based on a direct comparison. At its most basic level analysis will look at individual pieces, proper analysis will look at the whole and the meta information that the whole attempts to leverage for advantage.
I do not expect that these lists were made in isolation from each other.
Later,
WR
You sir, get a cookie for insightful appreciation of the complexity of this world championship.
Different countries from around the world playing in a 40k championships. I think that should qualify as a world championships.
man until you guys get the north koreans playing at the event you can't possibly call it a world champ. those guys would own that piece of junk space wolf army you are bringing.
Really, if you are trying to meta-out this tournament you need a bunch of armies with different roles. To my mind, having looked at this from a fantasy ETC perspective, with only cursory analysis of 40K - You need grinders, anti-armour strikers, and anti-horde strikers, an armoured force and a horde force.
To my mind - You probably want 4 armies that can grind it out and steal objectives. These are the armies that you are putting up for your opponent to strike at.
These armies need to be well-rounded because they will be hit with whatever extreme builds get launched at them. They have to be prepared to deal with any and all extremes, probably by being extremely good at objective based missions. If you put up an extreme build as one of your offereings, you are looking at having one of your "aces" having its teeth kicked in by its nemisis. To be perfectly honest, these 4 guys are looking for draws and hoping for small victories. Looking at the scoring format, they also want to keep the VP difference close to keep the 5 point modifier small. They would also be fine with taking a pounding and squeeking out the last turn objective grab for a small win.
Then you need your extreme lists - examples include a leaf blower, a green tide. There job is to go out and decimate the foe - in this case a very particular foe if your opponent puts up anything other than something well-rounded.
Remember that you need to earn 86 of 160 points between all 8 players to win the match. Every point counts. Your grinders need to grind out small losses and strikers need big victories.
Call it a gimmick if you want, but I call it a very interesting new layer to a competitive event.
carlosthecraven wrote:
Really, if you are trying to meta-out this tournament you need a bunch of armies with different roles. To my mind, having looked at this from a fantasy ETC perspective, with only cursory analysis of 40K - You need grinders, anti-armour strikers, and anti-horde strikers, an armoured force and a horde force.
To my mind - You probably want 4 armies that can grind it out and steal objectives. These are the armies that you are putting up for your opponent to strike at.
These armies need to be well-rounded because they will be hit with whatever extreme builds get launched at them. They have to be prepared to deal with any and all extremes, probably by being extremely good at objective based missions. If you put up an extreme build as one of your offereings, you are looking at having one of your "aces" having its teeth kicked in by its nemisis. To be perfectly honest, these 4 guys are looking for draws and hoping for small victories. Looking at the scoring format, they also want to keep the VP difference close to keep the 5 point modifier small. They would also be fine with taking a pounding and squeeking out the last turn objective grab for a small win.
...
Personally, I'm a huge fan of different tournaments having widely different guidelines for scoring, list building, etc., as long as the guidelines are made public well in advance.
The best players are ones that can adapt to any situation. I believe that a truly skilled, competitive player would welcome any challenge, at widely different point values, with radically different guidelines for list building, missions, and scoring.
It is easy to specialize in a single niche and become very good at it. It takes a much more skilled player to be able to excel at a wider variety of situations.
I, personally, find the ETC format intriguing, and I would love to see some larger scale tournaments here in the USA try something similar.
carlosthecraven wrote:
Really, if you are trying to meta-out this tournament you need a bunch of armies with different roles. To my mind, having looked at this from a fantasy ETC perspective, with only cursory analysis of 40K - You need grinders, anti-armour strikers, and anti-horde strikers, an armoured force and a horde force.
To my mind - You probably want 4 armies that can grind it out and steal objectives. These are the armies that you are putting up for your opponent to strike at.
These armies need to be well-rounded because they will be hit with whatever extreme builds get launched at them. They have to be prepared to deal with any and all extremes, probably by being extremely good at objective based missions. If you put up an extreme build as one of your offereings, you are looking at having one of your "aces" having its teeth kicked in by its nemisis. To be perfectly honest, these 4 guys are looking for draws and hoping for small victories. Looking at the scoring format, they also want to keep the VP difference close to keep the 5 point modifier small. They would also be fine with taking a pounding and squeeking out the last turn objective grab for a small win.
...
Hulksmash wrote:But if all your teams are heavy mech then you might lose the one game to another teams anti-tank while you auto-win against the anti-horde army and then it's probable that you'll win more than half of the remaining games because people didn't expect that much heavy mech. See how easy it is to break the system?
Ah but how many top end competitive Mech capable books are out there? Cause each team member needs to be fielding an army from a different book...
Thus preventing from skewing to one aspect entirely...
Hulksmash wrote:But if all your teams are heavy mech then you might lose the one game to another teams anti-tank while you auto-win against the anti-horde army and then it's probable that you'll win more than half of the remaining games because people didn't expect that much heavy mech. See how easy it is to break the system?
Ah but how many top end competitive Mech capable books are out there? Cause each team member needs to be fielding an army from a different book...
Thus preventing from skewing to one aspect entirely...
Really?
Let's see there's:
Eldar
Dark eldar
Guard
Tau
Space wolves
Blood angels
Orks
Vanilla marines
Witch hunters
That about sum it up? That's more than enough books to fill a roster with.
Yeah, Bunker hit the nail on the head. In fact I was surprised by the lack of DE overall. Only 2-3 of the countries attending brought them and they are just nasty. If you were gonna go mech death these are the codexes I'd take:
IG SW BA SM DE Orks
WH
7 Teams right? Those would be my choices. Possibly swap Orks w/Eldar so that all my armies would have Psychic Defense (IG don't really need it).
I don't think lists are quite as skewed towards the event as some people appear to think. My impression is that there is a pretty strong correlation between the lists that have performed well at the GT and other reasonably sized tournaments, and what you find in the ETC lists. Lash placed 1st and 2nd in the GT this year, Seer Councils fought off for the 1st place last year, the English Orks won Warfare last year and a GT heat the year before I think, and our Dark Eldar player won Starsmash. None of these were comped events / soft scored events, and all had a lot of players (c70-150 region)
Hulksmash wrote:Yeah, Bunker hit the nail on the head. In fact I was surprised by the lack of DE overall. Only 2-3 of the countries attending brought them and they are just nasty. If you were gonna go mech death these are the codexes I'd take:
IG SW BA SM DE Orks
WH
7 Teams right? Those would be my choices. Possibly swap Orks w/Eldar so that all my armies would have Psychic Defense (IG don't really need it).
I'd leave the Orks in just because at 1750 you can easily field 5 battlewagons and watch your opponent poop their pants when they realize they brought plasma instead of melta.
Why would you ever have your battlewagon orks matched up against the seer council list on the other side? With the format they use for determining who plays who, I see no reason why you cannot completely dodge extremely unfavourable matchups like that.
If they put out the seer council, you put something else up to fight them. If they put out a list that has even a marginally poor game against the battlewagons, then you put the battlewagons out to play them. There's no reason for the wagons to fight the seers.
Redbeard wrote:Why would you ever have your battlewagon orks matched up against the seer council list on the other side? With the format they use for determining who plays who, I see no reason why you cannot completely dodge extremely unfavourable matchups like that.
If they put out the seer council, you put something else up to fight them. If they put out a list that has even a marginally poor game against the battlewagons, then you put the battlewagons out to play them. There's no reason for the wagons to fight the seers.
Truth. I think the mistake Hulk and I keep making is forgetting about the whacky format
Personally against Seerdar I'd put up whoever on my side had IG. Nuking their fortune and making them LD2 is super hot
Sure, but they've got the same ability to dodge really bad matchups. They're not going to put a seerdar list up for you to pick what works against it, they're going to use it to go after one of your more generic lists.
But the problem is that it isn't always up to you which list plays whom. Sometimes, your opponent gets to respond to the list that you select.
Since you alternate who selects the player/army first, every other game will have your opponent selecting the most favorable army for them to play your selection.
Consequently, you cannot automatically assume that you will be able to always avoid unfavorable match-ups.
Redbeard wrote:Sure, but they've got the same ability to dodge really bad matchups. They're not going to put a seerdar list up for you to pick what works against it, they're going to use it to go after one of your more generic lists.
Wouldn't it be just as easy to assign those really bad matchups? The way I understand it is, one country puts up a list, then the other country reacts. Then it alternates. I would think it would be easier to grab one of those bad matchups than avoid it.
The basic concept put forth by carlosthe craven, which seems to make a lot of sense, is that you have four lists that are reasonably well balanced - these are the lists you put forward. You also have four more unbalanced lists, which you send after the lists your opponent puts forth.
If two teams do this, you'll see the alternation such that no team has a truly horrible matchup, but no team will have a really great matchup either. You'll see the balanced lists playing for draws/minor wins/losses, trying to salvage as many points as they can against the other team's heavy hitter lists, while they'll be trying to score massacres with their heavy-hitter lists against their opponent's more balanced lists.
Black Blow Fly wrote:That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.
G
There's a lot of gaming the matchups, almost to the point where it seems like rock-paper-scissors.
Not sure I'd want to spend a couple grand to fly across the pond to do that.
And hence why people on this forum (and others) are criticizing the Team America lists. They see them as all-comers lists and not specialized. That's why people are saying they're playing it like 8 guys playing a solo team-tournament.
I'm not saying that any other countries are doing it better (I've only read a few lists), but I can see where they're coming from.
I get that teams are trying to game the system. But why bother gaming the system when you can break it in half? Maybe it's the style they chose to do it in. Personally I'm against copying the way others are doing and setting out to make a name. But I'm an all or nothing kinda guy if I'm paying that much to do anything
I get that teams are trying to game the system. But why bother gaming the system when you can break it in half? Maybe it's the style they chose to do it in. Personally I'm against copying the way others are doing and setting out to make a name. But I'm an all or nothing kinda guy if I'm paying that much to do anything
Oh sure. I got what you were saying and I agree. But for those that don't want to break the system, they should play the system. It's arguable that Team America is gearing up to do that.
There we are in agreement Puma. I think it's a bad idea personally to try and play someone elses style when they've been at it longer than you. Bring your own style and flair and throw them on their back foot.
While I'm not sure about all of the list bravado and dismissal of the tournament structure [this seems especially pointless as all teams will have the same level playing field and will have approched the event eye wide open], I am rather intrigued by this event.
I have looked at the ETC website but can not access it now, can any one tell me when it will be held as I would be interested in following the results.
Black Blow Fly wrote:That sounds like a good strategy to me. There is definitely some gaming the matchups.
G
There's a lot of gaming the matchups, almost to the point where it seems like rock-paper-scissors.
Not sure I'd want to spend a couple grand to fly across the pond to do that.
And hence why people on this forum (and others) are criticizing the Team America lists. They see them as all-comers lists and not specialized. That's why people are saying they're playing it like 8 guys playing a solo team-tournament.
I'm not saying that any other countries are doing it better (I've only read a few lists), but I can see where they're coming from.
I wasn't even taking the format into account. Aside from The IG and Wolves list, the lists aren't very good (and even the wolves list is a drop list). Calling them all comers lists is deceiving as they really don't seem capable of faring well against a mix of opponents, let alone being able to be "gamed" into an advantageous match given the format.
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Black Blow Fly wrote:Hulksmash maybe you can put together a team next year and then you can run it the way you want.
G
ohyou.jpg
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MVBrandt wrote:Man, that's it ... gotta be BBF vs. Hulksmash on Friday night Fights before the Open.
That'd be the game I go get dinner during. Many would imagine there being a lot of animosity during the game, I just imagine it being boring watching the two not say a word to each other outside the game when everyone realizes BBF isn't a troll when he doesn't have a monitor between him and everyone.
This gets frustrating. The ETC/Euro view is that a WELL MADE all comers list can't handle mechspam guard, jetseer eldar, fatecrusher demons, etc. all equally well, when that's not true.
There are enough codices available that CAN build just that list that the notional of some team "picking" the perfect list to crush one is just absurd.
If Team America really were building nothing but ACTUAL well-crafted all comers lists, the Euro team would not be able to do a damn thing to beat them through simple list matching. It would come down purely to player skill. That's not necessarily what's happening ... I'll avoid being all critical on TA lists ... but if the ETC has come down to a bunch of people downgrading their 40k competence to thinking of the game as nothing but list-fu and dice rolling ... I'm sad for the state of the global game.