Let it begin... Here's what we've been hearing from the voices in the wind regarding the Dark Eldar.
-Lots of poison weapons (close combat and ranged).
-Streamlined version of combat drugs.
-The army is very lethal on the turn of arrival.
-Expect lots of lance weapons.
-There is chatter of the game's first lance-melta weapons being in the list.
-Units will "power up" and gain abilities in some manner as they kill enemies.
-Warriors and Wytches are troops.
-Expect new units.
-Harlequins are in.
Posted by BigRed at BoLS. Take it for what it's worth. The Harlequins part makes me tingly; been hoping for that. The rest of it, nothing terribly new or surprising.
Let it begin... Here's what we've been hearing from the voices in the wind regarding the Dark Eldar.
-Lots of poison weapons (close combat and ranged).
-Streamlined version of combat drugs.
-The army is very lethal on the turn of arrival.
-Expect lots of lance weapons.
-There is chatter of the game's first lance-melta weapons being in the list.
-Units will "power up" and gain abilities in some manner as they kill enemies.
-Warriors and Wytches are troops.
-Expect new units.
-Harlequins are in.
Posted by BigRed at BoLS. Take it for what it's worth. The Harlequins part makes me tingly; been hoping for that. The rest of it, nothing terribly new or surprising.
Ok, I'm intrigued. When I got in to this my brother and we started with the SM Vs. DE box set. I felt bad for my brother, who played DE, because he always felt like he wouldn't have picked them as his first if he had known how they played. Now maybe we both can play a game against each other with our original armies.
I like the part about being very lethal on turn of arrival. This seems to fit them very well. Also the part about units powering up and gaining abilities as you kill could be very cool!
Lance-melta weapon...Interesting!
Harlequins are in...Glad they did that. I am thinking that maybe we will see more conversions for DE as Harlequins as a result.
I also want to know what has happened to units like Hellions and Mandrakes. Last I knew they were not a DE players first choice of units to take. There was a slight attempt to fix Mandrakes but that still just didn't improve them enough to change people's opinion.
Clthomps wrote:Melta lances is a terrible idea... I don't want a broken codex, only one that has more that one viable option in each FoC slot...
The trouble with options is that one of them can normally be identified as preferable. This tends to make it the most viable and the others not so much.
I agree about the melta lances though. It is a terrible idea and will therefore probably appear in the codex.
Clthomps wrote:Well I hope we get Harlequins, and the deadly on the turn they arrive smells of scouting raiders!
Melta lances is a terrible idea... I don't want a broken codex, only one that has more that one viable option in each FoC slot...
Agree totally. Mostly, I'm waiting with baited breath for the new Jes Goodwin models. I'd take the old codex with the new models if I had to choose. But to get a new codex that basically plays the same, but with some new options and viable builds, with all new gorgeous models? Yes, please!
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Flashman wrote:I agree about the melta lances though. It is a terrible idea and will therefore probably appear in the codex.
LOL, such faith in GW we all have! My question would be: what's the point? Lance and melta are variants of the same job, they don't need to be added together. I'm fine with some tweaks, such as AP1 lance or a melta weapon with longer range, but keep them distinct and PRICE THEM FAIRLY.
Clthomps wrote:By fairly do you mean free on a 55pt fast open top skimmer with scout?
Either that or the base Raider will be cheaper and the gun upgrade will get you back to that points. Fast Razorbacks are 55 with TL Heavy Bolter, Fast Wartrukks are 35 with a big shoota, so 55 points for that Raider would not be totally unreasonable.
A lance+melta weapon isn't too bad on their own. It's all dependant on range, strength and availability. Add them to a bolt pistol stats and limit them to 0-1 in elite slots and it's not gonna raise an eyebrow. Stick them onto lascannon stats, and allow 2 in each troop unit, and it's cheesier than fondue
Bear LaMorte wrote:I think more importantly ... it all depends on what is going to be wielding the mighty lancy-melta-majig
ON SECOND THOUGHT!!!! ... Legit DE players have been waiting for like a decade for an honest-to-god upgrade ... i hope the Lance-Melta combo kicks serious ... I HOPE IT IS AN UBER-DEATH CANNON THAT RIPS ASUNDER ALL THAT STANDS BEFORE IT!!!! ...
and maybe then the DE will have been compensated for their patience
Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Brother SRM
Harlies in the fluff come from and work for all of the different types of Eldar. I think it totally fits.
Plus, Harlies in Raiders is just brutal, brutal, brutal.
What, you don't like having to painstakingly greenstuff pants onto entire squads of wyches? Frankly, any "man" who calls himself a "wych" deserves what he gets.
Reecius wrote:Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Brother SRM
Harlies in the fluff come from and work for all of the different types of Eldar. I think it totally fits.
Plus, Harlies in Raiders is just brutal, brutal, brutal.
Are you quite sure that expression is one of fear....?
Also, I agree about the fluff on the Harlequins. If I remember, the original WD fluff about them stated that they were performing troupes of mystical warriors who traveled among all Eldar to re-enact the Fall so that none would forget.
Reecius wrote:Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
Reecius wrote:Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Brother SRM
Harlies in the fluff come from and work for all of the different types of Eldar. I think it totally fits.
Plus, Harlies in Raiders is just brutal, brutal, brutal.
Are you quite sure that expression is one of fear....?
Also, I agree about the fluff on the Harlequins. If I remember, the original WD fluff about them stated that they were performing troupes of mystical warriors who traveled among all Eldar to re-enact the Fall so that none would forget.
I also remember Harlequins being made up of chosen Eldar, Dark Eldar and any other kinds. So to become one was a special honor no matter who you were.
Harlies are actually a much older organization than the split between Eldar and Dark Eldar. And living in the Warp as they do, it's likely that they are all still from before the Fall.
Man, there have been rumours about this for ages. It'd be nice to see them come true; God knows the DA need updating like hell in terms of models. I'd welcome some DA that didn't look like demonic Christmas trees, personally.
Yes, Harlequins are Harlequins. There aren't any Dark Eldar specific ones. It is noted in the fluff that they visit and perform for both Craftworlds and Commorragh.
Hence the call from us lot to see them appear in a future edition of Codex Dark Eldar. The addition of the Solitaire (the doomed member of the troupe who plays the Great Enemy) in the army list entry would be an interesting development. Maybe substitute it for the Shadowseer and have it deploy separately.
Another one of these threads? I actually read that article and decided against posting it here, cause it's not really news.
It's all been said before. I'm with JHDD for once in saying that at this point, the only real DE news would be pics of pages from the new codex, or pics of new models.
And Harlequins? Yeah they fit. But they also don't really fit... I hope they're not in the codex. A bunch of clowns flopping around while the DE are trying to do their thing just doesn't work imo... I'm hoping this just means that they are mentioned in the codex, rather than being part of the army list.
Melta Lance would be fine. DE only ever had one tank busty gun, let it be a good one. They're supposed to shoot black hole matter ffs...
Scottywan82 wrote:Harlies are actually a much older organization than the split between Eldar and Dark Eldar. And living in the Warp as they do, it's likely that they are all still from before the Fall.
Don't Harlequins actually live NOT in the Warp?
And I'm not sold on them being in with the Dark Eldar, though I guess it makes some sense from a story AND a sales perspective...
Flashman wrote:Yes, it's going to take some creative writing to justify Harequins taking part in a slave raid.
"Now THAT's what I call a captive audience!"
Thanks folks, I'll be here all week.
On a serious note, it is nice to have a hint of an existing unit that hopeful DE players can start converting/painting (or even just planning for) right now.
Also, here's hoping that the DE plastics work with the WHFB Corsairs kit as well as Guardians do. If there's cross-range compatibility, some AMAZING kitbashing can go on. Jes Goodwin is the sort of designer who actually thinks about that stuff, so the odds are probably good for a slew of great bitz-hacks.
Harlequin are a separate fraction and have contacts with craftworld Eldar AND Dark Eldar. They travel and mostly live in the Webway (a network of travel routes through the warp but protected from the warp). They protect the Black Library which is a construct in the webway and the biggest collection of knowledge on Chaos. Their main purpose is fighting Chaos (and keeping Eldar legends alive with performances). They wouldn't take part in Dark Eldar slave raids or Saim Hann massacring of human population on maiden worlds.
Bear LaMorte wrote:i hope the Lance-Melta combo kicks serious ...
Sorry but it will only one shot TMC dead...because those 12 remaining WAAC nid players deserve it [/sarcasm]
Right now the closest equivalent is a 60 pt Zoe which is a str 10 lance AP1. But at the same time is offset by low range and the ability to be shut down by hoods. A melta Lance would be way more powerfull. Ravagers would be brutal. 3 melta lances on a 12" firing platform with a 36" range...dear heavens. I am guessing that this rumor is bunk or the weapon itself is either going to be toned down or the costs extremely high.
Scottywan82 wrote:Harlies are actually a much older organization than the split between Eldar and Dark Eldar. And living in the Warp as they do, it's likely that they are all still from before the Fall.
Don't Harlequins actually live NOT in the Warp?
And I'm not sold on them being in with the Dark Eldar, though I guess it makes some sense from a story AND a sales perspective...
The Black Library exists in the Webway which is technically in the warp, so...
Also, keep in mind that the Harlies are not necessarilly acting as slavers for the DE. Their motivations are more inscrutable than that. As the DE raid for slaves, the Harlies may in fact be taking advantage of the chaos (not Chaos) to assassinate someone they have foretold will cause trouble to the Eldar race as a whole. Or - as DE are not exactly Slaanesh worshiping (more Slaanesh fearing) Eldar, the Harlies may be in fact battling the Great Devourer.
The Black Library exists in the Webway which is technically in the warp, so...
You're way off. The webway was created (or access to it was sought) for the very reason that the Eldar and their kind don't have to enter warp when they travel. Webway is a dimension between the two dimensions. A hiding place from Slaanesh, if you will. The Craftworlders live a life of restraint from all excesses or else Slaanesh will have their soul. Their Dark Kin place no such restrictions upon themselves but have to spend most of their time in Commorragh, a city not in material space nor in the warp, or else Slaanesh will destroy them too. Any Eldar entering warp space is described as a bright homing beacon for all types of Daemons (Because Eldar are a psychic race in the extreme).
There's still absolutely no rumours here. This same speculation has been posted every now and then for over five years now.
The Black Library exists in the Webway which is technically in the warp, so...
You're way off. The webway was created (or access to it was sought) for the very reason that the Eldar and their kind don't have to enter warp when they travel. Webway is a dimension between the two dimensions.
I would argue that it's a distinction without a difference. They use the Warp, albeit in a different manner from the Imperium. Imperial ships are protected from the warp itself by the shell the warp drive creates. The webway acts as permanent structure that serves a similar purpose. I think beyond that, it's a matter of semantics.
Certainly some portions of the webway do break down and get invaded by the warp itself. I direct your intention to the Inquisitor Trilogy for that. Perhaps a better analogy is more like a Daemon world?
The Black Library exists in the Webway which is technically in the warp, so...
You're way off. The webway was created (or access to it was sought) for the very reason that the Eldar and their kind don't have to enter warp when they travel. Webway is a dimension between the two dimensions. A hiding place from Slaanesh, if you will. The Craftworlders live a life of restraint from all excesses or else Slaanesh will have their soul. Their Dark Kin place no such restrictions upon themselves but have to spend most of their time in Commorragh, a city not in material space nor in the warp, or else Slaanesh will destroy them too. Any Eldar entering warp space is described as a bright homing beacon for all types of Daemons (Because Eldar are a psychic race in the extreme).
Actually, it depends on which fluff source you're looking at. A Thousand Sons (new HH novel) has a description of the webway that's closer to what Kroothawk said ("a network of travel routes through the warp but protected from the warp") and Scottywan is saying here too. But I seem to recall older fluff varying between the webway being separate from the warp, and it being a network of tesseracts and safe "tubes" through the warp. As for the authors' conceptions of the webway, you see the influence of everything from Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle In Time" to IT networking (secure tunnels, datahavens, etc.). GW does coordinate it's fluff well, but this cosmological element seems to have some varying concepts. If you want to stay inside the narrative logic of the fluffverse, you could see that variation as an indication of the lack of precise knowledge on the part of narrators in various sources... which is a fun bit of logical realism on top of making it easier on GW fluff writers to make up whatever they want.
I'm going to go back through my BL stacks (pretty much everything ever published for 40K that's got decent xenos fluff) and find some good info, if I get a moment. Another good place to find webway fluff would probably be Codex:Eye of Terror, which featured Ahriman's quest/rampage for the Black Library heavily. BTW, the ways in which A Thousand Sons ties into that bit of fluff are pretty mindblowing. I HIGHLY recommend the book.
But no doubt we will see webway fluff getting nailed down a bit more explicitly in the new codex. The 'Nid, BA and Space Wolf codices have all had little goodies in them (like the bit about the Astronomican being what probably drew the 'Nids onto our galaxy in the first place), and I hope DE will have some of the same. I also really wonder about their relationship to the Eldar god Ynead, the Eldar god of the dead who is slowly being born from the gestalt souls of Infinity Circuit/World Spirit -preserved Eldar souls.
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Scottywan82 wrote:Certainly some portions of the webway do break down and get invaded by the warp itself. I direct your intention to the Inquisitor Trilogy for that. Perhaps a better analogy is more like a Daemon world?
Again, this exact thing is in A Thousand Sons. And I wouldn't recommend readin gthe Inquisitor trilogy to anyone I liked. Well, unless they were a hardcore geek, totally obsessed with 40K flu...
Scottywan82 wrote:Certainly some portions of the webway do break down and get invaded by the warp itself. I direct your intention to the Inquisitor Trilogy for that. Perhaps a better analogy is more like a Daemon world?
Again, this exact thing is in A Thousand Sons. And I wouldn't recommend readin gthe Inquisitor trilogy to anyone I liked. Well, unless they were a hardcore geek, totally obsessed with 40K flu...
Again...I don't give a rat's about fluff. Rules are greater than Fluff any day. And looking at how OTTSW and BA have been made, I wouldn't be shocked to see a lance-melta that will deliver some serious pwnage.
Trust me when I say there are few people that want to see DE released as much as I do. I am surfing the net every day hoping for some solid info and again I was disapointed that it still is not out there. I really really really need a release date soon or my expectations over the last 8 years just may lead me to massive burn out on the whole thing. GW needs to start leaking some real stuff here instead of this continuing bait crap.
Hyping the complete re-design and re-release of a 10+ year old army would just be stupid. Better to not reveal anything until the last possible moment.
Hyping the complete re-design and re-release of a 10+ year old army would just be stupid. Better to not reveal anything until the last possible moment.
Hey! I'm not saying I agree with how GW runs their business, I'm just saying that's how it probably is going to be.
I don't get it either - we are (allegedly) talking about JES FREAKIN' GOODWIN models here!
That fact ALONE has got me excited to buy a new Xenos army!
Of course, the recent Minotaurs and Razorgor fiasco represent the other side of the 'sneak preview' argument...
Bear LaMorte wrote: i hope the Lance-Melta combo kicks serious ... I HOPE IT IS AN UBER-DEATH CANNON THAT RIPS ASUNDER ALL THAT STANDS BEFORE IT!!!! ...
and maybe then the DE will have been compensated for their patience
Reecius wrote:Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
Reece, you also say the following line:
"Kelly can be a guy's name, too"
It's not?
Haha, actually there is a guy in our group who's name is Kelly, and he is a cool dude, so I must defend the manliness of this name!
And fellas, the Dark Eldar are coming, for real this time.
I thought dark lances already were the equivalent of melta weapons.
More like a gimped Lascannon - worse v AV12 or less, better vs AV14, always down 12" range... ____
Reecius wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Reecius wrote:Hahaha, I know I never go into battle without my leather kielbasa sling on! The sight of my white cheeks bouncing around is enough to strike fear into the bravest of enemies!
As some others have posted, Jes Goodwin is reason enough for me to give the DE a serious look. Making the DE a true alpha strike army seems very plausable considering their original concept. I can definitely foresee options helping them to go first, bonuses to reserve rolls, webway portals which allow assaults the turn they enter (BA now have the ability in a sense, so it doesn't seem too outlandish a thought).
I'd love to see Harlies in the codex. It means less models for me to paint since their already are with my Eldar army.
Just don't make the Wyches look like S&M Gladiators and all will be well.
Actually the shape of the front armour plate would make it very difficult to penetrate from the front (just look at the development of sloped armour for tanks). The problem is that it doesn't cover enough of the vehicle to do anything useful..
Fluffwise if they keep the current aesthetic of the raider I can see them explaining an armour rise by having a forcefield on the front.
To be honest, though, I can't see a need for an armour upgrade - I mean, its not as if raider-spam does badly in competitive play.
Question: what models do the majority of current DE players possess in abundance?
Answer: Raiders/Ravagers
The new codex will 'encourage' DE players to purchase new models. Therefore we can conclude, with certainty, that the new codex will either a) nerf raiders (increase point cost etc) or b) present units which are better options.
We saw this clearly enough with BA. To wit, the BA vehicles were made extremely attractive so all the BA players with tons of jump-pack marines would reach into their wallets.
olympia wrote:The new codex will 'encourage' DE players to purchase new models. Therefore we can conclude, with certainty, that the new codex will either a) nerf raiders (increase point cost etc) or b) present units which are better options.
You are aware that the whole DE range is resculpted, right? Every single model!
H.B.M.C. wrote:Hyping the complete re-design and re-release of a 10+ year old army would just be stupid. Better to not reveal anything until the last possible moment.
Yeah, better deny the major release of a 10+ year old megaseller (that introduced many gamers to the hobby) even on a Games Day one day before release ... and make the release limited ***cough Space Hulk cough ***
olympia wrote:The new codex will 'encourage' DE players to purchase new models. Therefore we can conclude, with certainty, that the new codex will either a) nerf raiders (increase point cost etc) or b) present units which are better options.
You are aware that the whole DE range is resculpted, right? Every single model!
Yes of course and you can expcet that GW will do everything within the power of the codex to 'encourage' DE players to buy these new models rather than running raider spam. What's your point? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me or just stating something that we all know?
My point is that getting a new model doesn't indicate a special new rôle in the Codex, as all models will be new.
DE have a 12 year old Codex and are mostly mail order only, so few active gamers will own old DE models. And even almost all DE players will long to have non-ugly models.
So if the models are good (and they will be), sales will be almost completely independent of the fact, that some people own old models.
Kroothawk wrote:My point is that getting a new model doesn't indicate a special new rôle in the Codex, as all models will be new.
DE have a 12 year old Codex and are mostly mail order only, so few active gamers will own old DE models. And even almost all DE players will long to have non-ugly models.
So if the models are good (and they will be), sales will be almost completely independent of the fact, that some people own old models.
You are aware that all the current DE gamers own old DE models, right? Every single model!
The only minis I'll be buying when codex comes out, will be new units if they are worth it. I own the full range, with the exception of Asdrubael Vect and warriors with special weapons (blasters and shredders). And most of veteran DE gamers are in a similar situation.
Kroothawk wrote:My point is that getting a new model doesn't indicate a special new rôle in the Codex, as all models will be new.
DE have a 12 year old Codex and are mostly mail order only, so few active gamers will own old DE models. And even almost all DE players will long to have non-ugly models.
So if the models are good (and they will be), sales will be almost completely independent of the fact, that some people own old models.
You are aware that all the current DE gamers own old DE models, right? Every single model!
The only minis I'll be buying when codex comes out, will be new units if they are worth it. I own the full range, with the exception of Asdrubael Vect and warriors with special weapons (blasters and shredders). And most of veteran DE gamers are in a similar situation.
Would you believe me if I told you that you'll probably want to throw away all your existing models when you see the new ones?
I'm guessing you won't believe me, but listen to me now and believe me later...get the wastebasket (aka Ebay account) ready.
Lots of lace weapons? That's the current problem with the DE list, players have to take masses of dark lances to stand a chance of winning. If the new codex is designed like that it's already broken IMO.
But as predicted, it's been a fortnight since the last DE thread and still no real evidence of anything.
Would you believe me if I told you that you'll probably want to throw away all your existing models when you see the new ones?
I'm guessing you won't believe me, but listen to me now and believe me later...get the wastebasket (aka Ebay account) ready.
I have an idea of how the release will be. It's just a speculation, but given the comments I read and the fact that Jes Goodwin is leading the design, I'm pretty sure most of the minis are gonna kick ass. And probably we will have a razorgor-eq between the shiny new treasures, there is always a chance for that. Or great minis at a insane price (like the Vampire knights that cost the same as a battallion box - has GW sold any box of them?). You have probably seen the minis, and if you think they are not going to be a fail, then it's a kind of guarantee of cool minis coming...
However my income is limited. I'll probably but a lot of new minis in a space of months-years. But in the first release, I will only be buying the codex. I wish the core warrior box will include all the weapon options, and if that's the case, I would substitute my raider-warriors units slowly. I already have more than 60... Plastic Talos? Full-plastic Ravager? Plastic wyches? That would be awesome! But not for me now.
ChocolateGork wrote:The nids already have a s10, ap1, lance, Melta range-18 physic shooting attack.
However, it doesn't have the melta special rule. Plus it has shortcomings that help to balance out the weapon's strength, namely that as a psychic power it can be potentially blocked by hoods, shadows in the warp, rune priests, ect. It also has a smaller 18" + 6" movement threat range.
Hey! I'm not saying I agree with how GW runs their business, I'm just saying that's how it probably is going to be.
I don't get it either - we are (allegedly) talking about JES FREAKIN' GOODWIN models here!
The saddest thing is that realistically how many new models can they release in one go? How many new models have the recent new armies got? Let's assume Jes has sculpted the new Warrior plastic box, a plastic box that allows you to make a Ravager and/or Raider, new metal Incubi and three to four HQ/special characters. What else can we realistically expect? New plastic Wyches? Bikes? Hellions? Talos? What about the new units that we're being promised, especially as every single new codex has had plenty of them? Are they getting models at all? Unlikely.
Seriously, the Dark Eldar line has nothing but awful and/or outdated models and they all have to be replaced and this won't happen anytime soon because there's simply too much stuff to do. We'll get the most important two plastic boxes, some metals, and the rest will keep waiting for many more years. Basically, everyone will convert everything from the new Warrior kit.
All the chatter regarding Dark Eldar has indicated that the entire range is being revised and that no existing models will be retained. That is an exception to the norm these days where most ranges have some existing models that are retained while only some are revised for a new release. So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
olympia wrote:We saw this clearly enough with BA. To wit, the BA vehicles were made extremely attractive so all the BA players with tons of jump-pack marines would reach into their wallets.
For one, I think that has to do with GW's love affair with vehicles that started with the release of 5th Edition and gets stronger with each new codex. Secondly, their is good money to be made on mech given that a rhino costs $30 for 35 points vs say terminators which are $50 for 200 points. Lastly, most players just love playing mech, which keeps the games popularity on the rise.
So I for one am of the oppinion that raiders and ravagers will have some great rules and yet be relatively cheap (from a pts perspective)...dollar wise prepare to assume the position.
So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
That simply cannot and won't be the case. Expecting GW to release five or six new plastic boxes and five or six new metal units plus heroes plus all the possible new vehicles and/or units, all in one go, is simply delusional, as might be the whole idea of DE getting released at all. That would be the biggest single army release they've probably ever done and let's be honest half of the people don't even remember Dark Eldar exist anymore not to mention that there would be a sufficiently large fanbase ready to buy all those new kits.
Kroothawk wrote:My point is that getting a new model doesn't indicate a special new rôle in the Codex, as all models will be new.
DE have a 12 year old Codex and are mostly mail order only, so few active gamers will own old DE models. And even almost all DE players will long to have non-ugly models.
So if the models are good (and they will be), sales will be almost completely independent of the fact, that some people own old models.
I personally don't care how 'pretty' the new models will be. I'll still be running the 3k points worth of models I currently have. However...that doesn't mean I wouldn't pick up any of the new models.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Lots of lace weapons? That's the current problem with the DE list, players have to take masses of dark lances to stand a chance of winning. If the new codex is designed like that it's already broken IMO.
But as predicted, it's been a fortnight since the last DE thread and still no real evidence of anything.
:p
Well, we don't know how the new codex will be since it hasn't been released. And of course DL spam is what all DE players do because it's the only viable weapon option for anything. I personally only switch to Disintegrators when going against horde armies.
All the chatter regarding Dark Eldar has indicated that the entire range is being revised and that no existing models will be retained. That is an exception to the norm these days where most ranges have some existing models that are retained while only some are revised for a new release. So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
IMO, you are probably both right. They will revise all the models, but I highly doubt they will release them all in one wave. More than likely you will see wave one with the codex and wave two a year later, and a potentail wave 3 later.
Hey! I'm not saying I agree with how GW runs their business, I'm just saying that's how it probably is going to be.
I don't get it either - we are (allegedly) talking about JES FREAKIN' GOODWIN models here!
The saddest thing is that realistically how many new models can they release in one go? How many new models have the recent new armies got? Let's assume Jes has sculpted the new Warrior plastic box, a plastic box that allows you to make a Ravager and/or Raider, new metal Incubi and three to four HQ/special characters. What else can we realistically expect? New plastic Wyches? Bikes? Hellions? Talos? What about the new units that we're being promised, especially as every single new codex has had plenty of new units in them. Are they getting models at all? Unlikely.
Seriously, the Dark Eldar line has nothing but awful and/or outdated models and they all have to be replaced and this won't happen anytime soon because there's simply too much stuff to do. We'll get the most important two plastic boxes, some metals, and the rest will keep waiting for many more years. Basically, everyone will convert everything from the new Warrior kit.
I guess you are right for a regular codex update. But we have been told that this is not a regular update. We have been told that this is going to be in the line of Wood Elves. Well, GW has had a lot of time to develope tons of minis lol
Kroothawk wrote:
Erasoketa wrote:You are aware that all the current DE gamers own old DE models, right? Every single model!
yakface wrote:Would you believe me if I told you that you'll probably want to throw away all your existing models when you see the new ones?
I own a lot of DE miniatures and I want to throw away most of them just now whatever the new ones will look (except the Jet bikes, talos and Drazhar)
If you want to get rid of them now, then you are not true spicky grimdark enough!
Drazhar is like the Escher heavy, the Green Knight, Azrael, Dante... (and IIRC Eschers, Azrael and Dante were designed by Jes...)
They will revise all the models, but I highly doubt they will release them all in one wave
Exactly. We'll get a couple plastic kits and no information what else is going to be revised/released and when, and everyone who want to build battle ready armies right away have to convert the units they need or use older models. A year or two will go by without any word about possible new releases, untill they release some new stuff alongside an Orcs and Goblins release or something, when nobody expects it. That's GW wisdom for you.
They will revise all the models, but I highly doubt they will release them all in one wave
Exactly. We'll get a couple plastic kits and no information what else is going to be revised/released and when, and everyone who want to build battle ready armies right away have to convert the units they need or use older models. A year or two will go by without any word about possible new releases, untill they release some new stuff alongside an Orcs and Goblins release or something, when nobody expects it. That's GW wisdom for you.
And that's another reason I won't be just throwing my old DE away. I'll be more than happy with a release of plastic Wyches...Raiders/Warriors I have in abundance.
So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
That simply cannot and won't be the case. Expecting GW to release five or six new plastic boxes and five or six new metal units plus heroes plus all the possible new vehicles and/or units, all in one go, is simply delusional,
Ever heard of Tau? or Ogre Kingdoms?
They released many new kits as new armies, and you really have to look at Dark Eldar as a "new" army release since it's going to be a reboot.
There may be one or two models that don't get released but I fully expect 90% of the range to be available within the first few months of release.
So the answer to the question if rumors are true is "all of them".
That simply cannot and won't be the case. Expecting GW to release five or six new plastic boxes and five or six new metal units plus heroes plus all the possible new vehicles and/or units, all in one go, is simply delusional,
Ever heard of Tau? or Ogre Kingdoms?
They released many new kits as new armies, and you really have to look at Dark Eldar as a "new" army release since it's going to be a reboot.
There may be one or two models that don't get released but I fully expect 90% of the range to be available within the first few months of release.
GG
Both hopelessly outdated armies that in no way match up to current army books, and I'm not talking in terms of gaming power but simply the amount of units to choose from. Open your Codex: Necrons and count all the different HQ, elite, troops, fast attack and heavy support choices you have at your disposal. Now compare that number with modern books like Imperial Guard, Tyranids or Blood Angels. Do the same for Tau. Simply put, the expectations for new books are much higher than before. Noone will be satisfied with a book that has 3 HQ choices, 3 elite choices, 1 troops choice, 3 fast attack choices and 3 heavy support choices. New books have 30 to 50 army list entries and I'm not expecting DE or any future army to be any different. Now, you see the strain it puts on the guys who are trying to make the models? Every new book has tons of units that will never be released as Citadel miniatures at all, and you're expecting this to change because some random dude on some random forum said so? Because Dark Eldar are so special?
There's not much in the way of history to support what they will or won't do for this. It's been a long time since they released a new army from scratch.
I guess what they usually do is skimp on units for the first codex. Maybe they'll go that route here too.
I expect this will be more akin to the Wood Elf release, which have 17 metal characters, 8 metal unit kits, and 3 plastic unit kits. Except that given their more recent production tech, and the vehicles, there'll probably be more plastic, and less metal.
Three plastic kits and some metal blister packs will get the Dark Eldar started, sure, but it will be far and away from the supposed revamp of the entire model line. How can people be so unrealistic here? Noone should get their hopes up about Dark Eldar getting released at all, ever, but instead of just secretly keeping their thumbs up for the release to become a reality, they're expecting to get new models for about 8 heroes, 3 to 6 vehicles and 6 to 12 units? Good luck with that. Games Workshop that doesn't release the Storm Raven or Thunderwolf Cav or the Tervigon/T-Fex when they 100% know all of the kits would sell out all around the world, suddenly releases an unforeseen amount of stuff for a fringe army that's almost completely forgotten and is the very definition of a high risk release. Makes sense?
Therion wrote:Both hopelessly outdated armies that in no way match up to current army books, and I'm not talking in terms of gaming power but simply the amount of units to choose from. Open your Codex: Necrons and count all the different HQ, elite, troops, fast attack and heavy support choices you have at your disposal. Now compare that number with modern books like Imperial Guard, Tyranids or Blood Angels. Do the same for Tau. Simply put, the expectations for new books are much higher than before. Noone will be satisfied with a book that has 3 HQ choices, 3 elite choices, 1 troops choice, 3 fast attack choices and 3 heavy support choices. New books have 30 to 50 army list entries and I'm not expecting DE or any future army to be any different. Now, you see the strain it puts on the guys who are trying to make the models? Every new book has tons of units that will never be released as Citadel miniatures at all, and you're expecting this to change because some random dude on some random forum said so? Because Dark Eldar are so special?
Nope I personally don't see the 'strain' its putting on the sculpters since...hmmm...there's been no update at all for DE in over 10 years and Jes is supposedly the only one that did the new models. Nobody ever said DE were special, but by your statement you show how decidedly angry you are about them. The truth is nobody knows exactly what to expect and everything here is speculation based on a few tidbits of info that we've heard.
Decidedly angry about what? About Dark Eldar? They're fictional creatures. About Dark Eldar models being released? Why would I be angry about that? I'd love for the next four army books to be Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau and Eldar. What I'm surprised about is the amount of unwarranted optimism and the general state of delusion in this thread. A lot of people are really setting themselves up for a major disappointment.
Therion wrote:Decidedly angry about what? About Dark Eldar? They're fictional creatures. About Dark Eldar models being released? Why would I be angry about that? I'd love for the next four army books to be Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau and Eldar. What I'm surprised about is the amount of unwarranted optimism and the general state of delusion in this thread. A lot of people are really setting themselves up for a major disappointment.
Actually, I think most of our expectations are way lower than what you are presenting. And ya, you are very upset over it for no reason because as you said, they are fictional creatures and I'll add toy soldiers. Personally I'm a realist but I'd certainly rather see posts of optimism over posts of unwarranted criticism and pessimism.
Pretty sure that if the rumors are true about DE codex being "at the printers" (and some solid sources are saying as much) it will come out.
Would be asinine, even for GW, to print a run of codeciies spending 1,000's of pounds, and if it's true about the minis being done, 100's of 1,000's more pounds on production to just be like......."haha, fooled you guys. No DE."
Therion I think needs his morning coffee.
As was mentioned earlier WE's had most, if not all, of their range released within a couple of months. What's to say GW won't do the same for DE?
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wyomingfox wrote:SW got 2 plastic kits (Troops and Termies), and 3 special characters.
Tyranids got 2 plastic kits (gargoyles, ravenors) and 3 metal figs (Venom Thropes, Pyrovores, and Hive Guard). Oops forgot the Trygon...that makes 3 plastic.
BA got 2 plastic kits (Death Company, and Baal), 1 metal kit (Sanguinary Guard), and 5 special characters (well one is just a sergeant actually).
FYI Sanguinary Guard are plastic so 4 plastic kits.
wyomingfox wrote:BA got 2 plastic kits (Death Company, and Baal), 1 metal kit (Sanguinary Guard), and 5 special characters (well one is just a sergeant actually).
FYI Sanguinary Guard are plastic so 4 plastic kits.
Oh, so that would be 3 plastic kits then. Death Guard, Baal, and Sanguinary Guard. Right? Or am I missing another?
I was told by a GW manager who was leaving the company that there is definitely going to be DE codex. This was on the basis that all the studio minis were off being photographed at the HQ for the new codex.
I was told by a GW manager who was leaving the company that there is definitely going to be DE codex. This was on the basis that all the studio minis were off being photographed at the HQ for the new codex.
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Does it mean that 'Eavy Metal would have painted the new range of minis for the codex?
I was told by a GW manager who was leaving the company that there is definitely going to be DE codex. This was on the basis that all the studio minis were off being photographed at the HQ for the new codex.
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Does it mean that 'Eavy Metal would have painted the new range of minis for the codex?
The existing minis where being used for the new codex. my interpretation would be no new minis just a new codex. I couldnt get anymore information than that. athough he did hint that older DE stuff may be rereleased in plastic to replace older metal kits.
Well the minis have been done for some time now (Known). I'd assume that also means any requisite molds have been made etc(Speculation). I doubt they would use anything but newly made/painted minis for the new codex(Pretty damned sure about that). In other words, they're not going to paint up the greens of new models just so they can have pics.
You know that doesn't make any sense, don't you? Are you saying they've recreated the entire Dark Eldar line, but none of it was ready before the new codex had to hit the printers and therefore the book has pictures of all the old junk? More specifically, you're saying that the models have been ready for months or even a year, but they just couldn't get them painted in time for the pics? What a switch from the previous "They've been working on this release for a decade". Now it's "They had to release a book in a hurry to shut up the internet crowd. Gav Thorpe wrote the fluff while sitting on the toilet and Matt Ward random generated stats and points costs".
Brainscan, I've afraid you're not correct. I could see them taking pics of some of the old stuff, but there are definitely new models.
Therion, sorry, but you are off base this time. You’ve lost perspective and appear to no longer be able to distinguish the nonsense and wishlisting from the real information which has slowly leaked out.
As noted, Wood Elves are an example of an army which HAS had a serious and complete revamp like we’re talking about. As I said, they got three new plastic unit boxes (dryads, glade guard, glade riders) and EIGHT new metal ones (wardancers, waywatchers, warhawks, wild riders, eternal guard, treeman, treekin, new eagle) in addition to all the characters. Given GW's more recent work with plastics, it’s completely realistic and reasonable to expect that a higher proportion of the new stuff this time will be plastic, though it wouldn’t really be necessary; just nice.
All dependable rumors indicate that Jes has been personally and gradually working on these kits between all his other duties, probably for more than five years. It’s dead certain that some folks have seen some of the new figs, but GW’s been tightfisted and people are being cautious. With Jes working on the figs over a long period, the logistical hurdle of GW’s sculpting schedule / what their guys are busy with is not really a factor.
Recent (within the last couple of weeks) reliable word was that the codex was at the printer’s. It seems likely that the rules were the biggest hold up once the models finally got done.
Just gonna stick my oar in and use some educated guesswork.
I've read before that GW budget for roughly 50 plastic sprues per year. This works out to roughly one per week. If a codex launch takes up a whole month of newly released product, i's reasonable to assume it'll get 4 sprues. Depending on the number of sprues needed per model, this translates to 3-4 plastic kits at launch.
Dark Eldar are getting a complete overhaul, so they'll need troops. Going on the assumption that Wytches are moving from Elite to troops, I predict 2 of these potential 4 sprues will be Dark Eldar Warriors and Dark Eldar Wytches.
Of the two remaining, a raider will certainly show up. The question is whether the Raider will take one sprue, or be on 2 sprues with parts for a ravager included (and maybe even another variant?). Personally I'd guess they'd save the ravager for a second wave release, but who knows. If no ravager, I'd guess they'd release a Talos, so they have a heavy support option released.
Along with the plastics they can easily release the same number or more of metal models. The rubber moulds for metal kits are considerably cheaper, so for a big release they could go crazy with models. I'd guessing HQ's, Incubi, Mandrakes, Hellions and possibly Scourges. If they add new stuff they'll probably replace something in this list.
I think with many of the multi-purpose plastic kits they've been releasing (demolisher, trygon/mawloc, etc), I'd say we'll probably see more variants of units in combined kits and that things like the Raider/Ravager being packaged in one box. It's one less sku for retailers to stock, they can charge more, and it's probably easier to produce.
So 3-4 plastic kits could feasibly cover 6-7 unit types within the new codex and then metal or phase 2 releases for the rest.
Scottywan82 wrote:There's not much in the way of history to support what they will or won't do for this. It's been a long time since they released a new army from scratch.
I guess what they usually do is skimp on units for the first codex. Maybe they'll go that route here too.
METALS:
Incubi
Mandrakes
Hellions
Scourges
Lord
Wych Lord
Haemonculus
It's a big release, but not insane big. I bet it'll get done.
I think GW will release them over two months, to allow for the large number of kits that will have to come out. For now we're assuming DE haven't been too drastically re-written. Harlequins being in the DE codex, thats one less unit that'd need to be released. I'm sure bites can be taken out of the list of requirements in a similar fashion. For example whats not to say the Dark Eldar jetbike doesn't share a sprue out of two with the standard Eldar. Or if mandrakes with their similar aesthetic were part of a Wyches box. I think Hellions would need to be plastic.
I think the biggest danger to any assumptions is that we don't know what new units are being brought in. It could be something as simple as another raider/raveger variant... or something more drastic (making something up) like a monsterous creature sized warpbeast which has to be an independent kit. I don't think there is any gurantee that the initial release will cover everything let alone the old stuff, but GW will have to release more than the 3 plastic and 4 metal kits redone codices have been getting; 6 and 6 would probably cove 90% of it.
What about the fabled Harlequin army? I'd love to see it return, and Dark Eldar would be a good place to do it. It is essentially a codex of Eldar excesses.
I don't think we'll see a Harlequin army again, unless Forgeworld does it... then it would be just awesome! Harlie, jetbikes and Wraithlords would make a return and some of their more ridiculous rules could make a return with the overly ridiculous point costs that accompany most Forgeworld units.
aka_mythos wrote:I think GW will release them over two months, to allow for the large number of kits that will have to come out.
Assuming new DE are coming out, I think we're looking at a big initial "splash" push for the core:
- plastic Lord, metal Characters
- plastic Warriors & plastic Wyches,
- plastic Raider / Ravager,
- plastic Jetbikes
- plastic Talos & plastic Scourges
Then, plan on the rest (metals) dribbling out in 2 or 3 Waves.
____
Gitzbitah wrote:What about the fabled Harlequin army? I'd love to see it return, and Dark Eldar would be a good place to do it.
Given the paucity of DE units to date, it wouldn't be too hard to imagine a named Harlequin Special Character who allows Harlequins to be taken as Troops.
I think concept wise, any DE Codex would add a lot of new units, even if they're just weapon swaps with new names like the Russ / Hellhound variants.
aka_mythos wrote:I agree. It'd be cool to see mimes or solitares brought back... if GW wanted to do more with the unit.
Oh man, this would be AWESOME!
Gitzbitah wrote:What about the fabled Harlequin army? I'd love to see it return, and Dark Eldar would be a good place to do it. It is essentially a codex of Eldar excesses.
I bet with all the new things, we could make a pretty good 'counts as' Harleguin army out of the new DE codex...
It’s dead certain that some folks have seen some of the new figs, but GW’s been tightfisted and people are being cautious. With Jes working on the figs over a long period, the logistical hurdle of GW’s sculpting schedule / what their guys are busy with is not really a factor.
You're right, I can't distinguish anything from all the garbage Dark Eldar rumours we've heard for years. People are being cautious? What people? All we know is that some people who we don't know claim something that can't be verified while offering no proof whatsoever, masking it all with blanket statements that the whatever-release is an industrial secret and they can't say anything more except vague lies disguised as half-truths in order to stroke their internet egos. You're talking like Games Workshop is somekind of military technology lab with airtight security policies and personnel scans. It's a British company that makes toy soldiers for kids. If someone leaks some information about a future release it'll take them a century to find out something was leaked in the first place not to mention who leaked it and how.
Now, regarding the fact that the Dark Eldar might actually get released soon, I've been asking people how they can expect the whole line to be resculpted and released alongside new models for new units in one go. It's an important question and you're wrong in saying I'm off base with that one. You believe it's possible, I believe it isn't. I can agree that their goal might be to re-do the entire line but I'd guess the timeline for that is an abstract one. Of course, the same can be said of any army. They'll resculpt every Space Marine unit and vehicle too, but it'll take 20 years.
I thought this was universal knowledge, but there's not much in the way of discussion here.
DE Raider in the new codex:
12/10/10 open-topped - its got rails and stuff, and looks...weird. Take off the pointy raider front and round it, mix it with a star wars sand skimming thingy. I didn't ask if they were scouts or not, but probably wouldn't have gotten an answer if I did since this was all casual conversation, but they retain dark lances and are 55 points.
I don't know anything about upgrades or anything else about the DE codex coming this fall except for 12/10/10 open-topped, new shape, dark lance, 55 points.
Just because some people are uncertain about this:
1.) It is confirmed that the whole range of DE miniatures will get new models.
2.) Jes was sculpting for the last 3 years or so to achieve this. He got all the time he needed, so this is not comparable to the BA release.
3.) Most models are ready, the Codex at the printers.
4.) Some people have seen them and say that they are awesome.
5.) Not all are ready, some will be released in a second wave, which usually is more than 6 months later.
6.) If you do lists of units, leave room for new units, as all new Codices feature new stuff.
I don't know anything about upgrades or anything else about the DE codex coming this fall except for 12/10/10 open-topped, new shape, dark lance, 55 points.
Raider>Chimera>Razorback? I'm liking the idea of fielding 6 Hydras and only 1 Manticore more and more.
aka_mythos wrote:I think GW will release them over two months, to allow for the large number of kits that will have to come out.
Assuming new DE are coming out, I think we're looking at a big initial "splash" push for the core:
- plastic Lord, metal Characters
- plastic Warriors & plastic Wyches,
- plastic Raider / Ravager,
- plastic Jetbikes
- plastic Talos & plastic Scourges
Then, plan on the rest (metals) dribbling out in 2 or 3 Waves.
When I said initial release could be over 2 months thats just to cover the amount of production needed to get more than three plastic kits on sale. Say the releases start end of September (for lack of a better arbitrary month), Septembers production would be 4 DE kits... then two weeks into November another two kits would be ready.
The only thing I see wrong with your intial core release is that I'm inclined to believe GW will release something entirely new to give something to the old timers who might not want to replace their whole army. That some unit that GW percieves as redundant for the inital launch will be put back until a later release... lets say scourges... once again throwing a small bone to the people who held onto their old minis all this time.
Unless Wyches do in fact end up a troop choice, I don't think they'll be plastic. They could be done up like the aspect warriors or Sternguard... with a 5-6 man metal squad box and singles sold direct order. If they're troops, I think they'd be plastic but there would be good odds they wouldn't be in the initial release... as another troop choice they might be percieved as redundant in favor of Scourges or other choice. Forcing player to buy Warriors to fill out their army, while they wait for Wyches, sounds like a GW marketing strategy.
Kroothawk wrote:Just because some people are uncertain about this:
1.) It is confirmed that the whole range of DE miniatures will get new models.
2.) Jes was sculpting for the last 3 years or so to achieve this. He got all the time he needed, so this is not comparable to the BA release.
3.) Most models are ready, the Codex at the printers.
4.) Some people have seen them and say that they are awesome.
5.) Not all are ready, some will be released in a second wave, which usually is more than 6 months later.
6.) If you do lists of units, leave room for new units, as all new Codices feature new stuff.
1.) Who confirmed it? When did they confirm it and where?
2.) Who has confirmed this information to be true and not fan fabrication? When? Where?
3.) Confirmed? By who? When? Where?
4.) What people? Can you confirm those people exist?
5.) As I suspected, but who confirmed this and when and where?
6.) I'm not sure what you mean except that the new codex will have new units in it. Who confirmed this information, when, and where?
See, you can't just say someone said, confirmed or saw something and expect it to be taken as the truth. What you said didn't confirm anything at all, only reminded us of a bunch of rumours.
Alpharius wrote:4) I can confirm that the new models are, in fact, awesome!
You've seen the new models and the word you'd use to describe them is awesome? Which models did you see? When? Where? How? Why? Are there any other adjectives you'd like to use to describe them, or would that breach your contract, undoubtedly resulting in GW's army of lawyers taking everything you own and maybe even having you assassinated just to make sure you don't reveal any other secrets like what brand of coffee they drink at the studio?
I can confirm they've been confirmed. Much of it are things that have been stated by GW designers. GW is being a little more open about DE since they'd been such a long time coming back burner project for so long.
1 and 2 were stated by Phil Kelly, when someone inquired if he was writing the DE codex.
3 Was originally stated by someone who works at the printer who prints GW books. This was reconfirmed by a number of people on warseer who have regular contact with the game designers.
4 IDK
5 and 6 are just no brainers and are the norm for this edition, they should just go without say.
Allright then, so the part that was fan speculation was that the codex will have new units and that there are going to new models for those new units, and that the new models for existing and new units all look awesome. Secondly, the so called confirmation that the codex is at the printers sounds like one of these "So my friend Bob knows this guy Joe from the pub whose cousin-in-law works at this printing company and he said GW's Codex: Dark Eldar is at their printers" rumours. Lastly, if it's so obvious that the new models will be released in two or three waves (as is the norm for this edition as you said) why are people like Mannahnin arguing that the DE will be a mega release of 15+ new units all in one go? Is it because any information we have on that subject is nothing but speculation? I remember my earliest posts saying that I expect the scenario to be a couple new plastic boxes and then an agonising wait for new models that may or may not come, forcing everyone to convert a lot of stuff, à la Tyranids/SW/BA/IG.
Therion wrote:Allright then, so the part that was fan speculation was that the codex will have new units and that there are going to new models for those new units, and that the new models for existing and new units all look awesome. Secondly, the so called confirmation that the codex is at the printers sounds like one of these "So my friend Bob knows this guy Joe from the pub whose cousin-in-law works at this printing company and he said GW's Codex: Dark Eldar is at their printers" rumours. Lastly, if it's so obvious that the new models will be released in two or three waves (as is the norm for this edition as you said) why are people like Mannahnin arguing that the DE will be a mega release of 15+ new units all in one go? Is it because any information we have on that subject is nothing but speculation?
Some people, like me, do speculate because we don't have 1st hand information. Other people has that information. The problem would be having two opposite rumours from one source, but it's not the case.
Therion wrote:I remember my earliest posts saying that I expect the scenario to be a couple new plastic boxes and then an agonising wait for new models that may or may not come, forcing everyone to convert a lot of stuff, à la Tyranids/SW/BA/IG.
What do you need to convert for that armies? The BA flyer and IG stormtroopers? They have their own rumours too... This armies have almost the full range available, with one note: nids, SM & IG already had a strong product range. We can't say that of DE.
Therion wrote:Anyway, I won't derail your thread any further.
Have a little faith. You are ranting against GW worst than H, and I thought he was bad.
Several sources "in the know" have confirmed the DE codex at printers, have in fact seen the models. Those same people were 95% right in everything they predicted about BA's and Tyranids and every other codex released this edition.
If some is right 95% of the time about every single 40k release thus far in 5th edition doesn't it stand to reason that they are right again?
As to GW taking a lifetime to find their source of "leaks"...think again. Anything TOO revealing is normally yanked within 24 hours. From there it might take GW only a matter of weeks/days to find the culprit that leaked the info.
Know what happens to people who leak company secrets and get fired? They end up working at Walmart as a greeter the rest of their lives because no company will ever trust them again to keep hush on anything.
So, just because you want names of sources doesn't mean that it's all lies when someone won't reveal their sources. Nobody wants to get sued (and breaching an NDA is cause for a lawsuit and immediate termination) for being THAT guy who revealed their source. When the source of the leak is found all of his/her contacts can be held accountable as well and sued.
Reds8n isn't withholding his source just to be TFG, he's doing it because he'd rather not have to refinance his home and give part of his income every month to settling a lawsuit.
1+2 also confirmed by Jervis plus a podcast with Jes about 1.5 years ago where he stated that he is half done with the range.
3+4+5 also confirmed by Harry.
6 just common sense as new units are missing in the lists of this thread.
The spam of DE threads makes it difficult to find the quotes, so I made the summary from memory.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Assuming new DE are coming out, I think we're looking at a big initial "splash" push for the core:
Then, plan on the rest (metals) dribbling out in 2 or 3 Waves.
When I said initial release could be over 2 months thats just to cover the amount of production needed to get more than three plastic kits on sale.
The only thing I see wrong with your intial core release is that I'm inclined to believe GW will release something entirely new to give something to the old timers who might not want to replace their whole army. That some unit that GW percieves as redundant for the inital launch will be put back until a later release...
Unless Wyches do in fact end up a troop choice, I don't think they'll be plastic. They could be done up like the aspect warriors or Sternguard...
OK, that's entirely possible, too.
My core thoughts were just extending from current GW practice as 2 "normal" Waves worth of stuff: 1 Lord & 2 Troops + Transport; easy plastic "fillers" for Fast, Heavy. All-plastic because that's GW's money-maker. I picked Talos because it's a big model, and GW hates large metal; Scourges because the plastic Warrior design makes them trivially easy to do as a modular kit a la Tac/AM; Jetbikes, because they're already plastic.
Rumors are on Wyches as Troops, but yeah, I can see them like Sternguard where Lilith makes them Troops. Perhaps the Incubi Master and Kruellagh will do something for. They cry out to be plastic, tho.
This will not be an ordinary release, neither model nor backgroundwise. The DE have about 5-10 pages of official background, if you search hard. So no copy&paste for this one.
Some rumours expect the following to be in the first wave:
1.) New plastic Warriors
2.) New plastic Wyches
3.) New Plastic Raider/Ravager
4.) New larger plastic Talos.
Therion wrote:the so called confirmation that the codex is at the printers sounds like one of these "So my friend Bob knows this guy Joe from the pub whose cousin-in-law works at this printing company and he said GW's Codex: Dark Eldar is at their printers" rumours.
So how is this any different from any other codex release, six months prior? Or any of these rumors for that matter? This pattern has been consistent through every 5th ed codex release. We had nothing solid on IG until a month or two before they were released. Same with Tyranids. Same with SWs. Same with BA. Etc. All we knew was "soon" whatever that meant... And that's where DE are now.
Though I suppose it's somewhat understandable that DE are held to a higher level of scrutiny. But it has been known for so long that DE are close to finished, if not already finished, that at some point people have to just retire their tired arguments against that fact. The only thing there is to argue at this point is "when".
Here's something posted about a year ago at Librarium Online which seems to be in line with what we're hearing from other sources (independent from one another) at this time:
Posted by Deris87
I had a chat with my local GW manager for about an hour today concerning his conversations with Phil Kelly at Adepticon. This manager is normally tight as a clam about rumors and tidbits but being a pointy ear player himself he was pretty eager to share. He didn't mention any real rules nitty gritty but he did tell me a few things that make me really eager to see a new dex.
-Fluff concerning DE society and particularly religion are going to be fleshed out a lot more, to show more of their similarities and differences with Craftworld Eldar. He said Kelly put particular emphasis on how in both fluff and game mechanics Eldar and Dark Eldar are very much mirrors of each other.
-There will be a Dark Avatar of Khaine, as well as Harlequins in the new dex.
-It really will be a ground up re-write of the dex, don't expect the army to look the same. He did say raider rush style assault lists will certainly still be there though.
Grain of salt and what not. I personally don't have any reason to doubt this manager, but certainly any of this could change by the actual release of the dex. Even if this is just a glimpse into their vision right now for the dex, I'm really excited by it. Dark Avatar of Khaine would be awesome, he also said there'd be a new plastic model for it along with new regular Eldar plastics coming out down the road.
And here's a rumor that makes me think Mandrakes will be among the first plastic kits. Also from Librarium Online Dec of 2007:
DE will come with an entirely new range of models (except for the jetbikes; I’ve been told these will probably stay as is for now...sorry). Don’t expect significant changes to the DE theme. They are still the light raider force and there will be only one new troop type in the list (hint....this troop type already exists in another list...duh). However they have re-tooled the less useful units to be more appealing. Mandrakes will be in every list (think units of mini lictors). Heavy weapons are gone (what?). All DE will carry Assault weapons (I guess this means dark lances will now be assault, ouch!). Splinter rifles will be 18” S3 Assault 2.
I'm sure these have been posted here before. Just tossing them up as a reminder, or in case some people haven't seen them yet.
Reecius wrote:Just please get rid of the Man Elves in Man Thongs, the rest I can take.
Done.
Look at the DE pic in the rulebook and you (almost) have the actual DE warrior model, but the models aren't striding and leaning like they are drunk. They stand upright and are awesome.
Give it another month and the studio will start leaking pics....
Here's a fun Dakka game for anyone with some free time.
Go take a look through GW's miniature release catalog and see how many miniatures Jes Goodwin has been a part of in the last few years (the Dark Elf Cold Ones are the only models off the top of my head in probably the last five years).
A full-time sculptor on the books working away for years and years with nothing much at all to show for his work...
...If only we could figure out what he has possibly been working on...
Oh wait, he slipped and TOLD everyone on an official company podcast.
But yeah, I'm sure it is completely and utterly impossible for the entire Dark Eldar line to be revised.
ChocolateGork wrote:The nids already have a s10, ap1, lance, Melta range-18 physic shooting attack.
S10, Ap1, Lance, nothing more. Although I have a lot of fun telling my friends when I shoot it something else, "I'm gonna use warp lance, it's Strength ten, AP 1, assault 2, lance, melta, rending" They usually respond with a blank stare or a loud "WHAT!?" and then I fire back with, "Yeah, I think it's unfair for rending to activate on either of the two armor pen dice, but it's the rule. Kinda strange how the extra melta die still activates it." They usually yell for a minute about cheese or being overpowered and I tell them I'm joking and show them what it really is. It's great fun (for me at least).
Pretty pathetic actually. If you're really interested in the discussion, go back a little and see what it started from. I doubted that GW can release an entirely new Dark Eldar line in one go or one wave whichever word you're willing to use. I said I expect them to release two or three plastic boxes and two or three metal units, and whatever the exact amount turns out to be, leaving something to be converted. If anything this has been the trend with new 40K army books (partly because they now have lots and lots of different and very specialised unit choices), and nothing posted in this thread is of any evidence to the contrary. You're just being you.
But yeah, I'm sure it is completely and utterly impossible for the entire Dark Eldar line to be revised.
Is there a forum particularly suited for threads discussing you and other overly sarcastic posters being wrong about the entire Dark Eldar line (models for everything in the codex) being released this fall? I'm just asking beforehand because it's not really suited for "News & Rumours" since I knew it in advance.
Honestly the moment the original dark eldar wych models showed that the MALE wyches had thongs and LESS clothing than the females they should have all been scrapped
That is such a massively bad judgement call and nothing good could ever happen after that :( If I was the art director I would have melted down the entire range just because of the wyches and saved future embarassments
So you would've destroyed thousands of hours and dollars worth of hard work because of a sense of homophobia?
Sorry, but that's not exactly legitimate grounds. The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates. They should fit the bill. No one is forcing you to buy minis with man-thongs.
metallifan wrote:So you would've destroyed thousands of hours and dollars worth of hard work because of a sense of homophobia?
Sorry, but that's not exactly legitimate grounds. The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates. They should fit the bill. No one is forcing you to buy minis with man-thongs.
metallifan wrote:So you would've destroyed thousands of hours and dollars worth of hard work because of a sense of homophobia?
Sorry, but that's not exactly legitimate grounds. The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates. They should fit the bill. No one is forcing you to buy minis with man-thongs.
Yeah, I mean look at all the S&M models that SoB have.
metallifan wrote:So you would've destroyed thousands of hours and dollars worth of hard work because of a sense of homophobia?
Sorry, but that's not exactly legitimate grounds. The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates. They should fit the bill. No one is forcing you to buy minis with man-thongs.
dry humor isnt your thing, I apologize
No. I'm not from the UK, so it often evades me
And there's nothing like a hooded muscley chick with a chainsaw to get the loins all fired up
metallifan wrote:So you would've destroyed thousands of hours and dollars worth of hard work because of a sense of homophobia?
More like "tranie"phobia as wearing women's lingerie doesn't mean you are a homosexual (see lesbian trapped in a man's body). It is likely more of a personal disgust of seeing a male butt in a thong, which is perfectly fine and he is certainly entitled to that oppinion, one that has been vocally shared by other posters in this thread.
And yes you can just green stuff over it, assuming you have the skill...but if the majority of DE players want non-man-thong wyches, then GW would be wise to appeal to the majorities wishes being a for-profit comapny and all.
However, if most want the man-thong, then let the Tankini rule them all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Dear heaven's maybe I should not have posted that
ChocolateGork wrote:The nids already have a s10, ap1, lance, Melta range-18 physic shooting attack.
S10, Ap1, Lance, nothing more. Although I have a lot of fun telling my friends when I shoot it something else, "I'm gonna use warp lance, it's Strength ten, AP 1, assault 2, lance, melta, rending" They usually respond with a blank stare or a loud "WHAT!?" and then I fire back with, "Yeah, I think it's unfair for rending to activate on either of the two armor pen dice, but it's the rule. Kinda strange how the extra melta die still activates it." They usually yell for a minute about cheese or being overpowered and I tell them I'm joking and show them what it really is. It's great fun (for me at least).
That's pretty hilarious, because you claim that a weapon has a profile that it doesn't.
Therion wrote:Pretty pathetic actually. If you're really interested in the discussion, go back a little and see what it started from. I doubted that GW can release an entirely new Dark Eldar line in one go or one wave whichever word you're willing to use. I said I expect them to release two or three plastic boxes and two or three metal units, and whatever the exact amount turns out to be, leaving something to be converted. If anything this has been the trend with new 40K army books (partly because they now have lots and lots of different and very specialised unit choices), and nothing posted in this thread is of any evidence to the contrary. You're just being you.
And we try to show you the official evidence that the DE release will be something special and bigger than normal releases. Even with some units spared for a second wave, the first wave will be more massive than SW and BA and Tyranids. But we don't force you to believe Jes Goodwin's recorded statements
metallifan wrote:The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates.
So no danger that this release will NOT be extremely popular among all teenagers around the world
I personally never had issue w/ the 'male' wyches. They're gladiators and guess what? Real Gladiators wore next to nothing. It's really making something out of nothing imo.
Rymafyr wrote:I personally never had issue w/ the 'male' wyches. They're gladiators and guess what? Real Gladiators wore next to nothing. It's really making something out of nothing imo.
+1
To add to this: Wrestling matches during ancient Greek games were between 2 naked, oiled up dudes. Make of that what you will. These, on the other hand, are toy space elves. By comparison, the bare plastic buttcheeks don't seem so bad now.
The only differences being that winning in the Greek sport was based on skill, not popularity determining your script. And they wear Spandex now. Which isn't much better, mind you, but at least you're not getting a bare phallus to the face when you're trying to pin someone down
metallifan wrote:
The Dark Eldar are, by fluff, sex-addicted, space-cocaine snorting, cross-dressing, slave-taking, soul stealing space pirates. They should fit the bill. No one is forcing you to buy minis with man-thongs.
And the winner of sig of the decade so far is Metallifan.
It´s because the last 3 DE players know that the cake is a lie. GW is never ever ever going to bring back DE
One thing I´m thinking about the probable new stuff is that if the new raider is like in the pictures, storing it safely is going to be a pain in the ass.
Miguelsan wrote:One thing I´m thinking about the probable new stuff is that if the new raider is like in the pictures, storing it safely is going to be a pain in the ass.
M.
Just like the current ones. Maybe they'll have new detachable bits and collapsible parts...
I bet Harry himself could provide pics of him holding new DE minis in his hand and people would still doubt.
Yeesh.
Ya know, I don't doubt the DE line has been re-done. I don't doubt they'll get a release sometime in the future. I just have no confidence in GW actually releasing them. Sorry, but for this DE player, its been long enough.
Rymafyr wrote:Ya know, I don't doubt the DE line has been re-done. I don't doubt they'll get a release sometime in the future. I just have no confidence in GW actually releasing them. Sorry, but for this DE player, its been long enough.
This is pretty much the boat I'm in. DE are coming 'soon', we know that... We COULD see them this year, but do we really think GW will pass up the delicious opportunity to push back the release and kick DE fans in the groin one last time? We'll find out in a few months...
For me, the DE hold a very particular place in my heart, not only because they were my first army; they were the army I started with my cousin who passed away a few years ago.
I genuinely like some other armies but for me, the mechanics of how DE play and their concept are something I really like. DE make no pretense of who they are. They are trying to survive and are willing to do it by any means necessary. You don't get that with many other armies.
Space Marines come off as self important holier than thou saviors who are really no better than a bunch of thugs supporting a corrupt and disintegrating society. How droll.
Sidstyler wrote:I intentionally left myself open for that.
Remember John, we all want pictures of you paying up.
You teed it up very high, what else could I do?
I've already offered pics, assuming that I lose and Yakface is agreeable to participating. Those 2 conditions have yet to be satisfied. ____
Fateweaver wrote:I bet Harry himself could provide pics of him holding new DE minis in his hand and people would still doubt.
At least we'd finally have pictures... ____
Miguelsan wrote:One thing I´m thinking about the probable new stuff is that if the new raider is like in the pictures, storing it safely is going to be a pain in the ass.
Which is totally unlike the current Raider with all of its fragile little plastic spiky bitz???
Miguelsan wrote:One thing I´m thinking about the probable new stuff is that if the new raider is like in the pictures, storing it safely is going to be a pain in the ass.
Which is totally unlike the current Raider with all of its fragile little plastic spiky bitz???
CoolKidRoc over at Warseer posted this rumour/confirmation on the GK and DE release. Being cautious, I'd rather post it here than starting another Grey Knight thread
CoolKidRoc wrote:So while I was up at my local GW I was talking with a Red Shirt and Black Shirt. I purchasing a Inquisitor and the guy asked if I new the Plastics for the GKs were coming out soon. I asked if that was now confirmed and he said Yes. I asked when, and he told me that they had beat out DE for release, but that DE was also confirmed as arriving by Christmas.
Evidently the information comes from a conference out in Las Vegas.
The facts I know from the conversation.
1. Inquisitor Dex will arrive before DE 2. DE by Christmas
3. Inquisitor Dex will be after 8th Ed Fantasy
4. One Codex to contain all Ordo's, Malleous, Xeno, and Heriric
5. Sisters will not be present in the Dex, but will have there own Codex at a later time.
6. Deathwatch/Alien Hunters will be present
Other info based on them not actually getting to see the Codex but talking with the people, sounds like you'll still be able to build a pure GK army, and sounds like it will be more useful. Points Drop on PAGKs, TGKs to stay about the same point cost but be better.
That's about all I know for now, more info to come as I get it.
Fateweaver wrote:I'd take the Inquisition thing with a huge bucket of salt. Even GW themselves have stated in the past no combined codex.
Not to mention we've heard more about DE than GK's.
We've heard more unofficially about DEs, but officially, I think it's about a tie, as both are pretty close to nothing said.
An Inquisition Codex without Sisters probably wouldn't be seen as a combined Codex. If GW has Inquisitors with options to flavor them, with Assassins, GKs, or Deathwatch, depending on the players preference, that's basically a catch-all for all of the super-low-volume stuff that they sell, adding "Heroes of the Imperium" to "Codex: Assassins", with a few new items to round things out: GKPA, DW, and ISTs.
CoolKidRoc wrote:I asked if that was now confirmed and he said Yes. I asked when, and he told me that they had beat out DE for release, but that DE was also confirmed as arriving by Christmas.
I see the word confirmed in there twice... Does GW ever confirm anything without any publicity whatsoever? Sounds like a shifty rumor, but it wouldn't surprise me. Like I said before, GW would be considered disloyal to itself if it didn't disappoint its DE fans one last time.
Reaver Jetbikes as Troops.
An Incubi style unit as elites.
Wyches as troops.
Warp beasts as fast attack.
Combat Drugs giving a choosable option of different USR: feel no pain and furious charge are the only ones I could think of that would be useful.
Shadowfield drops to 3++ but sticks if the roll fails.
Some of these I believe. Some I don't.
I posted this in the wrong thread before. Dumbass.
It's also going to get that song stuck in your head for the next 20 years, while you picture Termagaunts munching on something dead while singing "Nomnomnomnomnomnomnom..." in high-pitched chipmunk voices.
A DE update would really benefit my brother who is the only kid at my FLGS who plays the damn things. My suggestion would be to make the raven a plastic kit, call it a skimmer and have it occupy a HS slot.
... I HOPE 
I actually read that article and decided against posting it here, cause it's not really news.
