A thread specifically for the news and rumours related to the miniatures.
No rules necessary as there are plenty of threads for them.
After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Best start point is to use this pic as a reference.
The warriors are not striding forward and hunched over like they are about to tip over- legs are laid out in a wide stance and the models are much, much better proportioned than the old ones, so no more legs that go all the way up and tiny torsos.
Helmets and non helmeted heads included.
Non helmeted head has a high ponytail.
Ribs/shards of bone poke through loincloths and the ponytail.
The helmets are pretty much identical to the above pic, but with lumps/gems over the ears/temples.
From behind the helmets look exactly like eldar guardian ones.
There is a gem/soulstone on the left chest armour- not the shoulder armour piece as per the above pic.
This is where you have to use your imagination as the pic doesn't show it: On the back there is a backpack that looks like it started as an eldar backpack but does not stick out as far, has vestigal 'vanes' compared to the eldar one (so doesn't stick up above the shoulder) and most excellently down the centre of the backpack, it is recessed with scaled armour over the spine (triangular scales with points downwards)
A high collar that flanges out
Rifle is almost exactly the same as the pic for the base model, even down to the jagged bit that pokes up in front of the warriors abdomen in the pic. There is a variant with what looks to be crossbow arms sticking out laterally (ends up looking like a mini anchor)
Attachable Loincloths (variable designs) One has a skull, one a hook on them.
As per the pic, greaves over the lower legs, then knee pads and scales over the upper legs, with points upwards.
Knife scabbard, 2 'rods' and 2 small sachels on the 'utility belt' posteriorly
Blades of differing lengths and size on various armour parts, primarily lower legs and shoulder pads.
Curved knife HW available.
Attachable blades for the end of splinter rifle.
The models will be about as close to the source pic as you can imagine, and finally GW does concept art proud.
I played DE when they first caame out through to about 2003 before selling them off.
The new warriors make me desperately want to do a new army.
well if you have seen the plastics and they are letting you talk about them then that means they are soon on the horizon.
but if they do the concept art justice then they will be cool looking. to bad it just means i'll have some old crappy ones and new cool ones just like my eldar...
The other pic in the rulebook (of the DE assault vs IG).
The backs of the leaping warriors do not look anything like the models I saw.
That is not to say they may be another type of DE trooper (one I haven't seen)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.
They were pretty coy with the last couple of releases and except for me stumbling over their Beastmen promo poster several days before it was released for (I guess promotion) and putting pics online they managed to keep pretty much everything on the lowdown for that release until they wanted to release the pics (excepting the 'pumbagor').
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there are no pics- I did not know they would be on show and did not have my camera.
Looks like I dumped my old DE army just in time for the new mini's!
*rubs hands with glee*
I've heard we're looking at a September/October release personally. I'd rather it was August though, just so JohnHwangDD has a dollar to send someone.
I believe Mr. Gonads has been bought out by the corporate boys from GW. Now he's enticing us with descriptions of models that don't exist in order to build up excitement for some unknown fiendish reason that I can't even begin to come up with a wild scenario for.
Not a fan of the helmet, reminds me of a Cylon, but I'll wait until I see the actual model. Some attachable decorative pieces, like the ones on the Dark Elf CoK helmets, would be swizzeet.
I hope they toned down the bayonet and didn't make it so ridiculously long.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.
While everything else you posted is really interesting, this sounds like pure speculation. Were you actually told something about their release date or when they'd appear in WD as a sneak peak? Or is this simply a gut feeling?
Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Please let it be true... Please let it be true. Is there any word on an actual release date or is that still completely up for debate?
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The other pic in the rulebook (of the DE assault vs IG).
The backs of the leaping warriors do not look anything like the models I saw.
That is not to say they may be another type of DE trooper (one I haven't seen)
Just for the record, here is the pic:
If they stay close to the concept as well, we have a good idea of the Raider now.
And my guess is, we see the new Wyches here! Look at the weapons! And they are troops now!
Guess you didn't see any other models, right?
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.
They were pretty coy with the last couple of releases and except for me stumbling over their Beastmen promo poster several days before it was released for (I guess promotion) and putting pics online they managed to keep pretty much everything on the lowdown for that release until they wanted to release the pics (excepting the 'pumbagor').
How sure are you about the August release?
And keep in mind that Jes was really angry that his Harlequin pics leaked early, so it is his personal intention to keep the pics secret until he publishes them.
Terminus wrote:
Anyway, I hope they aren't coming out in August, that's supposed to be the GK's time.
..hmm... doubt it.
They could just be gemstones. OR something really terrible that are somehow reminiscent of soul stones.
QFT. in all honesty the Dark Eldar are perhaps the least developed (fluffwise) of the "modern" 40K setting.
One thing we should "see"/get served is an expanded background of what the Dark Eldar are actually about. Imagine the noise on the various 40K background boards as people argue over whether they really are Slaanesh worshippers or more.... hmm... "I am the push that makes you move" type thing.
.. or something else !
I'd suggest that " Dark Disciple" might be a reasonable pointer for some of the ideas towards their future direction maybe.
...
Have just bought a DE army from a friend last week.
I hope the figures are as good as people hope, but I shalln't be upgrading.
I don't mind the old figures too much And it means I may be able to extend the army quite inexpensively if people start selling off to make way for the new models.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The other pic in the rulebook (of the DE assault vs IG).
The backs of the leaping warriors do not look anything like the models I saw.
That is not to say they may be another type of DE trooper (one I haven't seen)
Just for the record, here is the pic:
If they stay close to the concept as well, we have a good idea of the Raider now.
And my guess is, we see the new Wyches here! Look at the weapons! And they are troops now!
Guess you didn't see any other models, right?
Only (some) of the warriors. I didn't see the sprues or all of the possible builds.
Keep in mind that the vast majority, if not the entire range (baring a couple fo character sculpts) that will be released with the codex were finished months ago.
I've had the raider described to me but haven't seen it - A cross between the sand skiff in ROTJ and the current raider (I guess something like the pic above)
I've had a few other models described to me but they are fairly hazy descriptions and not worth repeating as it will just end up confusing people.
To be honest I'm sure there are NO pics anywhere.
Those who have access to releases earrly (pre black box) want to keep getting access early.
I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD 2 months pre release. BUT with the build up to WHFB realease in July, that may get swamped.
Kroothawk wrote:BTW did GW notice that males and females look different in the hip region?
Male and female humans look different in the hip region. Male and female Elves look however similar the designer wants them to look...
There is a noticeable difference in the hips of the current female models. The Female Incubus model has a thinner waist and broader butt than the male Incubi. Same with the Wyches. I think it's just the old warriors that are identical from the waist down.
Yo Gonads, did you happen to notice any female torsos on the sprues? Are all the warriors male?
I think I just got wood...and how appropriate hehe. I like the new look and really hope the raiders are like the pic too.
As far as the soul stones it could still make sense. Instead however of just collecting the soul of the holder it collects the souls of those dying around them. Just think of the fluff on how the Archons devour souls. This may be the delivery method.
This is quite a coup, Gonads - your news is zooming around the internet. If actual sprues have got to Australia, then we must be fairly close to seeing them.
I always thought the DE had a lot of potential. The Raiders were pretty cool, and quite a radical departure for GW at the time. The Warriors weren't perfect, but if you spent a bit of time removing excess blades and avoided some of the stupid bits (like the big hair heads) they were quite acceptable. And the Talos looked genuinely evil (it was a bastard to build though). The problem was that most of the rest of the range was crap. The Wyches were kind of lumpy and distorted when they should have been lithe and elegant, while the Archon was an embarassing model to have as a leader. And the bondage theme, while perhaps appropriate, just made the models ugly. However, the army played like its fluff in a way that few other armies did, and it was a lot of fun to use. It was rather one-dimensional, and when it started to fall apart it was difficult to recover.
I don't think the DE need a major overhaul. The basics are all there. The army just needs more depth, and the supporting units like Grotesques need to be more interesting (or replaced with something better). Fleshing out the fluff so that they have a proper place in the WH40k universe will help, but it's the models that will be the key to whether the DE become popular. If the Raiders look like the ones in the drawing above, then that's a good start (not sure where the sail fits in, but it's a nice touch). I'd be hoping for plastic Wyches and a plastic Talos, plus some well sculpted leaders.
Terminus wrote:
Anyway, I hope they aren't coming out in August, that's supposed to be the GK's time.
..hmm... doubt it.
They could just be gemstones. OR something really terrible that are somehow reminiscent of soul stones.
QFT. in all honesty the Dark Eldar are perhaps the least developed (fluffwise) of the "modern" 40K setting.
One thing we should "see"/get served is an expanded background of what the Dark Eldar are actually about. Imagine the noise on the various 40K background boards as people argue over whether they really are Slaanesh worshippers or more.... hmm... "I am the push that makes you move" type thing.
.. or something else !
I'd suggest that " Dark Disciple" might be a reasonable pointer for some of the ideas towards their future direction maybe.
...
Slipknot quote for the win! I hope they're all so spiky that prolonged handling of them makes all the Dark Eldar players look like they sit at home cutting themselves. THAT would be fluffy!!!
Hay whut do yu0 mean know pics?!!!! Haven't you guise seen the new Dark Eldars greens?!!!!??!! I think White Dragon has the pics!
But seriously, I've said this before, but if GW do Dark Eldar right, this might actually pull me back into 40k....or at least convince me to pick up a few models. The concept art looks sweet, and if the minis match up, I'm almost sold. We'll just see how the codex and the rest of the minis turn out...Right now I'm pretty pumped. Thanks for posting the info, Gonads!
At first I doubted our messenger with raging testicles, but it seems that his news is genuine.
And Dark Eldar are much closer than anyone thinks. First of all, while the two inquisition codex have been pulled, they are definately not next.
There is much secrecy behind this release and apparently there is going to be something called a sudden or impact release. This is where we know something is coming but we don't know exactly when.
News I got from the grapevine is that there will be a lot of stuff some of us expected the DE to have:
Lots of poison based weapons.
Rending Splinter Cannons.
Splinter Rifles being assault and granting and additional attack.
An army that is stupidly good at almost everything (cc and shooting) but will fall apart easily. Glass Cannon springs to mind.
Aside from the character models, an entirely plastic range.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It bodes well I think for those of us who have been waiting for twelve long years.
radiohazard wrote:There is much secrecy behind this release and apparently there is going to be something called a sudden or impact release. This is where we know something is coming but we don't know exactly when.
Wait, isn't that the case for pretty much every release these days?
Hi Tailgunner
have just won some grots on ebay so I don't want them replaced now Wyches are not brilliant, but not as bad as I feared after what had heard about them. I will have to paint them so they will have tight fitting clothes, body stockings or some such. They will be used in a place where the amout of exposed flesh could be deemed inappropriate.
Also won the Archon figure - lawks knows what they were thinking of there Time to break out the greenstuff
Yes and no. While official GW channels are around 3 months out they can't keep a tight enough lid that something isn't out as far back as 6 months out, whether concrete or not.
So while things are getting leaked now GW could wait even longer (lets say only 60 days out) to make a major announcement concerning DE.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD 2 months pre release. BUT with the build up to WHFB realease in July, that may get swamped.
That's interesting. Are you basing this on rumors that you have personally heard, or simply what others have heard? Because there's also a big hubbub around Grey Knights coming out in August, so it's not like every sign points to DE.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD
I'll be happy with a November release. ____
LunaHound wrote:No leaked pictures? awww...
Exactly. Tho the rumors have a lot more details.
It'd be amusing if 4/1/11 rolls around and Waagh_Gonads goes "April Fools! Warseer's 4 days got nothing on our full-year buildup."
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD
I'll be happy with a November release. ____
LunaHound wrote:No leaked pictures? awww...
Exactly. Tho the rumors have a lot more details.
It'd be amusing if 4/1/11 rolls around and Waagh_Gonads goes "April Fools! Warseer's 4 days got nothing on our full-year buildup."
meh.Let's get an entirely new range please. The raider is ugly, and so is about everything else. I'll only play DE if they erase all those crappy models from the face of the earth and introduce totally new models.
After 13 years, I'm sure they've had enough time to make 30+ models.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD 2 months pre release. BUT with the build up to WHFB realease in July, that may get swamped.
That's interesting. Are you basing this on rumors that you have personally heard, or simply what others have heard? Because there's also a big hubbub around Grey Knights coming out in August, so it's not like every sign points to DE.
SM choirboys saying they want GKs to be next doesn't really count as a sign. They're just not used to being wrong when they say "SMs are next!" But the feeling I get is that GKs are close, but DE are closer... I suppose only time will tell.
But this little unveiling here (Gonads getting the go-ahead to post this info) kinda makes it obvious, imo...
reds8n wrote:With regards to wyches have any of you seen the Liber Slaanesh at all ?
Is there a reason I shouldn't suddenly peruse my copy of Liber Chaotica?
If you look at the "Echoes of the Birth" section (near/at the end) you'll see some (old but this release has been coming for how long now ?) design/concept sketches for the range.
I 'm hoping they've kept all the pipes and cables.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I said Juneish as all signs are still pointing to a DE release in August (Yakface wants to win his bet) and pics invariably appear in the WD 2 months pre release. BUT with the build up to WHFB realease in July, that may get swamped.
That's interesting. Are you basing this on rumors that you have personally heard, or simply what others have heard? Because there's also a big hubbub around Grey Knights coming out in August, so it's not like every sign points to DE.
SM choirboys saying they want GKs to be next doesn't really count as a sign. They're just not used to being wrong when they say "SMs are next!" But the feeling I get is that GKs are close, but DE are closer... I suppose only time will tell.
But this little unveiling here (Gonads getting the go-ahead to post this info) kinda makes it obvious, imo...
Pot calling the kettle black? Well, if your definition of choirboy includes Harry and DPA, that is I'm asking a genuine question here since the release order still seems up in the air. But keep on calling anyone who's trying to get a clearer picture of the situation a SM choirboy, bro.
Vhalyar wrote:Pot calling the kettle black? Well, if your definition of choirboy includes Harry and DPA, that is I'm asking a genuine question here since the release order still seems up in the air. But keep on calling anyone who's trying to get a clearer picture of the situation a SM choirboy, bro.
Whoa back off scamp! Didn't I say "I suppose only time will tell"?
And I'm not calling inquisitive people choirboys... I'm calling SM players choirboys
Hordini wrote:Hay whut do yu0 mean know pics?!!!! Haven't you guise seen the new Dark Eldars greens?!!!!??!! I think White Dragon has the pics!
Ask and ye shall receive. I thought everyone had seen these already, whats up with this new thread?
Actually, these are quite old test sculpts by Juan Diaz. They were shown on GD Spain 2 years ago but are a lot older. As our member Erasoketa pointed out, these Haemunculi were already featured in the Spanish White Dwarf March 2000:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1940/dsc01562d.jpg http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5323/dsc01564v.jpg Usually, test sculpts are not released, but there are exceptions. So noone can say ATM.
BTW no comment yet that we can see the Wyches (and Hellions) concept art on the big Raider pic?
Jazz is for Losers wrote:p.s Whitedragon apparently has loads more pics that he can't post but he's sending them through personal message to anyone that wants to see.
Either you're trolling him, or he's trolling you. I can't decide which.
Jazz is for Losers wrote:p.s Whitedragon apparently has loads more pics that he can't post but he's sending them through personal message to anyone that wants to see.
Either you're trolling him, or he's trolling you. I can't decide which.
By "loads more pics" do you mean the same picture in different formats?
I don't see any wyches in that pic, only warriors, raiders, reavers, hellions and mandrakes.
I'm pretty sure that those DE in combat with those guard are mandrakes.
Hordini wrote:Hay whut do yu0 mean know pics?!!!! Haven't you guise seen the new Dark Eldars greens?!!!!??!! I think White Dragon has the pics!
[Haemonculi pic]
Ask and ye shall receive. I thought everyone had seen these already, whats up with this new thread?
Actually, these are quite old test sculpts by Juan Diaz. They were shown on GD Spain 2 years ago but are a lot older. As our member Erasoketa pointed out, these Haemunculi were already featured in the Spanish White Dwarf March 2000: http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1940/dsc01562d.jpg http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5323/dsc01564v.jpg Usually, test sculpts are not released, but there are exceptions. So noone can say ATM.
BTW no comment yet that we can see the Wyches (and Hellions) concept art on the big Raider pic?
[Raider pic from the rulebook]
LOL I posted before reading your comment. So there is people who reads me! Thank you very much sir xDD
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Stops lurking for a moment ....
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Stops lurking for a moment ....
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Stops lurking for a moment ....
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:
Stops lurking for a moment ....
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.
There's no reason why wyches and mandrakes couldn't be moved to Troops. I'm speculating obviously... At least for myself, I've never had any reason to take mandrakes because they just do not fit the billl as an elite choice for their points. Same for stupid Grotesques.
Personally I'd like to see Haemonoculi and Incubi moved to Elites along with a few new additions. Yes, I know the current fluff and I don't care how that's not fluffy. Scourges should have been a Fast attack choice imo. It's no wonder there is only 1 DE build with the current codex. But this is all wishlisting on my part...Can't wait to see what things will really be like...C'mon August!
Harry wrote:These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.
Hope this is not another April fool thing in May, like the last April fool thing in March.
Anyway, here some quotes from the Warseer thread:
silverstu wrote:Nope- he is saying there is a new dark eldar warrior sprue- but these models didn't come from it.
Either test/prototype sculpts[possible if they relate to the illustration]
Harry wrote:This is what I was saying.
silverstu wrote:They will probably look better
[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]
silverstu wrote:They will probably look better
[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]
I was told they were the new DE warriors.
As I said I never saw the sprue (the models were assembled).
IF they were prototypes/test models... to be honest they are going to have to pull one hell of a rabbit out of the hat to surpass them, because GW from top to bottom would be flat out insane to not get these models out.
Also another forum had rules for mesh armour as a rumoured rule- there was absolutely no mesh on any of the models.
For actual note, a talos is powered by the death spasams of their dying victims. Most likely if they do upgrade the talos it will be one of the "Kill something and it gets stronger" units rumored to be in the DE 5th ed.
Superscope wrote:For actual note, a talos is powered by the death spasams of their dying victims. Most likely if they do upgrade the talos it will be one of the "Kill something and it gets stronger" units rumored to be in the DE 5th ed.
I don't much like the sound of such a special rule. DE have a couple wargear that grant bonuses after the wielder kills stuff (Animus Vitae, Trophy Racks) and half the time, people forget about the bonuses. They glance at the reference card for any stats they're not sure about and they forget about the changes they were supposed to have made.
Now that could be because these bonuses only applied to a single character. It may end up being more manageable if such things are granted on a large scale, to whole squads for example. But even then, the escalation mechanic is a concept better suited for RTS games. I'd rather my squads come with special rules rather than having to earn them during the course of the game.
They could do something neat where the army keeps a tally of wounds inflicted/models killed/whatever and eligible units get bonuses of that... But that sounds like the kind of thing that would scare the studio these days.
Balance wrote:They could do something neat where the army keeps a tally of wounds inflicted/models killed/whatever and eligible units get bonuses of that...
But that sounds like the kind of thing that would scare the studio these days.
You mean, like Faith points?
It's also the sort of thing that simply wouldn't work under the current pace for mass battles.
GW should keep it simple. If a unit wipes out another unit in HtH, it gains Furious Charge (or whatever) until the end of the player's next turn. No long term counting, numbers, or tracking required. Just put down a token, and at then end of the player's turn, pick up all of the tokens.
Balance wrote:They could do something neat where the army keeps a tally of wounds inflicted/models killed/whatever and eligible units get bonuses of that...
But that sounds like the kind of thing that would scare the studio these days.
You mean, like Faith points?
It's also the sort of thing that simply wouldn't work under the current pace for mass battles.
GW should keep it simple. If a unit wipes out another unit in HtH, it gains Furious Charge (or whatever) until the end of the player's next turn. No long term counting, numbers, or tracking required. Just put down a token, and at then end of the player's turn, pick up all of the tokens.
Agreed. Last thing that I would want to deal with is someone/myself having to keep track of tallies while playing or making sure I am not being cheated.
A instant, its done when you start your next turn, effect would be more ideal for units who eliminate other units in HtH.
Plenty of complicated wound-allocation units such as nobs keep track of things just fine. Would it really be that hard to put a die or counters next to the talos model?
Skarboy wrote:Plenty of complicated wound-allocation units such as nobs keep track of things just fine.
Would it really be that hard to put a die or counters next to the talos model?
Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
Not if Talos were 0-1.
But if Talos goes Apoc-worthy, then that becomes a pile of counters for bookkeeping.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
Are there any other units in the game that can abuse wound allocation to the extent of Nobs? The local FLGS employee in charge of the GW stuff has said he'd like to house rule so the Nobs only count as different for allocation based on their weapons, not all the other crap they can carry.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
Are there any other units in the game that can abuse wound allocation to the extent of Nobs? The local FLGS employee in charge of the GW stuff has said he'd like to house rule so the Nobs only count as different for allocation based on their weapons, not all the other crap they can carry.
Tau crisis suits can have any number of weapons/wargear in the same squad; however, they're limited by squad size (3).
Skarboy wrote:Plenty of complicated wound-allocation units such as nobs keep track of things just fine.
Would it really be that hard to put a die or counters next to the talos model?
Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
While I wouldn't use the term "lose out big time", since I don't think it will make that big of a difference, I do agree that they most likely will change the wound allocation rules for 6E. And that this will definately hurt the nob units a bit.
generalgrog wrote:...And also will have warp beast cavalry...
I think that would be a cool way to both give DE another fast attack choice that contrasts with Eldar and incorporate elements from the Eldar's Rogue Trader past. I realize they wouldn't be the same as Exodites, but it would be a neat way to incorporate that concepts and aesthetic into the current edition, like how the Thunderfire was a bit of a revisit to the Rapier Laser.
It would make for an interesting sort of fluff to have the Exodites being gathered by the Harlequin resettling worlds near Commorragh since the Craftworld won't have them.. or something.
Skarboy wrote:Plenty of complicated wound-allocation units such as nobs keep track of things just fine.
Would it really be that hard to put a die or counters next to the talos model?
Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
While I wouldn't use the term "lose out big time", since I don't think it will make that big of a difference, I do agree that they most likely will change the wound allocation rules for 6E. And that this will definately hurt the nob units a bit.
GG
I think it's more accurate to state that if you are finding "inventive" ways to manipulate your wargear to "maximize" a flawed wound allocation system, it's more akin to abuse than losing out big.
Only the jag-offs arming one Nob with a grenade to extend the lifespan of their unit would complain about "losing out big."
It's a rules exploit and it's clearly not the way the rules were intended to be used.
Reaver Jetbikes as Troops.
An Incubi style unit as elites.
Wyches as troops.
Warp beasts as fast attack.
Combat Drugs giving a choosable option of different USR: feel no pain and furious charge are the only ones I could think of that would be useful.
Shadowfield drops to 3++ but sticks if the roll fails.
Seriously if this is true it is brilliant news it means more people collecting things other than Space Marines so I can keep on collecting them and be seen as 'out there'!
Skarboy wrote:Plenty of complicated wound-allocation units such as nobs keep track of things just fine.
Would it really be that hard to put a die or counters next to the talos model?
Come the next Ork Codex / 6E, I bet Nobs are going to lose out big time, as in, you remove whole models, rather than being able to spread the wounds around.
Not if Talos were 0-1.
But if Talos goes Apoc-worthy, then that becomes a pile of counters for bookkeeping.
Well, I agree that in 6th Ed, they'll probably reconfigure how wounds are taken and models removed, since it appears to be a big loophole this go 'round. So, nobs and all other units that use wound allocation giggles will be affected, but, like posted further down, people will find new tricks. But really, I think having some counters or using a die won't be that complicated and I really don't care about the effects on Apocalypse since that's such a tiny percentage of the game. People I play (and I suspect this is universal) always use extra dice or counters to reflect gameplay elements all the time: vehicle table results, wounds, combat resolution, faith points, etc. It's not that hard. You can even buy dedicated dice or counters just for certain effects, so I don't worry about it at all. I'm all for diverse ways to play the game and less generic rules. I'm already getting sick of the widespread "Furious Charge" and "Feel No Pain" units out there, for example. New and different are not bad things!
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Kroothawk wrote:
radiohazard wrote:All the kits will be plastic except warp beasts, grotesques and characters from what i've heard and seen.
Maybe this has to do with the fact that Jes is head sculptor for DE AND head of the plastics department
Probably the case. Won't break my heart to have another 99% plastic army to go with my orks. As for grotesques, I already plan on doing some daemonette conversions in all likelihood unless they are flat-out gorgeous. Well, as gorgeous as anything called a "grotesque" can be, that is.
Skarboy wrote:Well, I agree that in 6th Ed, they'll probably reconfigure how wounds are taken and models removed, since it appears to be a big loophole this go 'round. So, nobs and all other units that use wound allocation giggles will be affected, but, like posted further down, people will find new tricks.
But really, I think having some counters or using a die won't be that complicated and I really don't care about the effects on Apocalypse since that's such a tiny percentage of the game.
People I play (and I suspect this is universal) always use extra dice or counters to reflect gameplay elements all the time: vehicle table results, wounds, combat resolution, faith points, etc. It's not that hard. You can even buy dedicated dice or counters just for certain effects, so I don't worry about it at all. I'm all for diverse ways to play the game and less generic rules. I'm already getting sick of the widespread "Furious Charge" and "Feel No Pain" units out there, for example. New and different are not bad things!
Yup, but at least one set of nonsense will go away.
For a while, Apoc was all that I played. And I'll bet if you were to tally up all gaming time since Apoc has been available, it's probably far larger than the tournament games. At least, that's what GW's seeing, given that they basically walked away from Tournament support (Chapter Approved / FAQs) while published a 2nd Apoc, along with making huge, awesome Apoc-only models. Just because you don't play much Apoc, doesn't mean it's not huge.
Most of those counters last one turn: vehicle results, combat resolution. GW has gotten away from special dice (Epic/BFG Orders, 2E Sustained Fire). As I noted, a one-turn / next turn effect would be plenty enough to keep the Talos moving along.
Seriously if this is true it is brilliant news it means more people collecting things other than Space Marines so I can keep on collecting them and be seen as 'out there'!
JohnHwangDD wrote:
For a while, Apoc was all that I played. And I'll bet if you were to tally up all gaming time since Apoc has been available, it's probably far larger than the tournament games. At least, that's what GW's seeing, given that they basically walked away from Tournament support (Chapter Approved / FAQs) while published a 2nd Apoc, along with making huge, awesome Apoc-only models. Just because you don't play much Apoc, doesn't mean it's not huge.
Are you sure about all that, or are you seeing what you want to see?
Ed_Bodger wrote:You are going to get squatted mwahahhahaha.
Seriously if this is true it is brilliant news it means more people collecting things other than Space Marines so I can keep on collecting them and be seen as 'out there'!
Easy there tiger, take a breath or you'll hyperventilate.
JohnHwangDD wrote:
For a while, Apoc was all that I played. And I'll bet if you were to tally up all gaming time since Apoc has been available, it's probably far larger than the tournament games. At least, that's what GW's seeing, given that they basically walked away from Tournament support (Chapter Approved / FAQs) while published a 2nd Apoc, along with making huge, awesome Apoc-only models. Just because you don't play much Apoc, doesn't mean it's not huge.
Are you sure about all that, or are you seeing what you want to see?
Given that there's empirical evidence in terms of product offerings, I don't think that my conclusion is totally unreasonable.
I mean, it's not like GW hasn't clearly and obviously decided to run themselves as a proper, profit-seeking business...
JohnHwangDD wrote:
For a while, Apoc was all that I played. And I'll bet if you were to tally up all gaming time since Apoc has been available, it's probably far larger than the tournament games. At least, that's what GW's seeing, given that they basically walked away from Tournament support (Chapter Approved / FAQs) while published a 2nd Apoc, along with making huge, awesome Apoc-only models. Just because you don't play much Apoc, doesn't mean it's not huge.
Are you sure about all that, or are you seeing what you want to see?
Given that there's empirical evidence in terms of product offerings, I don't think that my conclusion is totally unreasonable.
I mean, it's not like GW hasn't clearly and obviously decided to run themselves as a proper, profit-seeking business...
My tournament gaming is very limited but at the St. valentines Massacre I heard that GW's prize and terrain support has been better than it ever was. They've walked away from running them, delegated that to fans and stores but they are still quite supportive.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:My tournament gaming is very limited but at the St. valentines Massacre I heard that GW's prize and terrain support has been better than it ever was. They've walked away from running them, delegated that to fans and stores but they are still quite supportive.
That's a really good idea. To the contestants, a tournament is a tournament regardless of who's running it. Just knowing GW is supporting it is enough.
Since before I began I always had an interest in Dark Eldar and a few weeks ago I got a box of Wyches. I really like the models and their fun to paint, but I'm really excited to see what the new ones will look like when they come out. This new concept design for the Warrior seems like it'll be great, but I admit that I liked the look of the old ones as well, mainly the helmets with the curved spikes along the back. Anyway, I hope this topic is one of those truths that goes against the rumors of DE getting squatted because their among my two favorite armies (and probably the two rarest in the game), SoB and DE.
It's the same bunch that always shout "squatted" or "denial" whenever this happens, stating that a lack of evidence is all the proof they need to draw their conclusions and pass those off as official news.
Good to know, I've had my doubts about those who bring up squating and figured that they were just pissed off gamers, as has already been noted. Now I just can't wait for whatever new Inquisition Codexes are expected and the Dark Eldar one.
I doubt the DE are gonna get squatted, but at the same time I not going to believe that they are going to get an update until I see an "Incomming Dark Eldar" email from GW.
I was at my FLGS and they seem to believe that new DE are indeed coming out. They even pulled all their DE product of the shelves as a courtesy to their costumers.
I am totally exited that DE is getting an update. Frankly, any update is welcome.
As for the concept, I both like it and don't like it.
I have 2nd Ed Dark Eldar. I like their spiky-ness, but I don't like how...insubstantial they look. They were kind of bland I guess. This new concept lacks the spikiness, but it looks sleek and cool, yet sinister.
The book got a revised print, the miniatures stayed the same ... and were released starting with the 3rd edition starter box.
So no 2nd edition Dark Eldar.
What I meant to say was that the first models I ever got were the tactical squad & land speeder and 20-man DE warrior squad that came with a core rule book, 6 dice, 2 rulers, and some scenery. I thought that the core rule book was 2nd Ed, but I guess I was mistaken.
Austragalis wrote:What I meant to say was that the first models I ever got were the tactical squad & land speeder and 20-man DE warrior squad that came with a core rule book, 6 dice, 2 rulers, and some scenery. I thought that the core rule book was 2nd Ed, but I guess I was mistaken.
That was 3rd Ed, 2nd Ed box had 2 SM tactical squads, 20 Goff Orks and 40 Grots. I might be wrong with the amount of greenskin minis, that was a few years ago
Austragalis wrote:What I meant to say was that the first models I ever got were the tactical squad & land speeder and 20-man DE warrior squad that came with a core rule book, 6 dice, 2 rulers, and some scenery. I thought that the core rule book was 2nd Ed, but I guess I was mistaken.
Wikipedia wrote:Third Edition (1998)
The third edition of the game was released in 1998, and like the second edition, concentrated on streamlining the rules for larger battles.[1] Third edition rules were notably simpler, and less prone to give characters abilities only on the roll of a die.[22] The rulebook was available alone, or as a boxed set with miniatures of Space Marines and the newly-introduced Dark Eldar.
Austragalis wrote:What I meant to say was that the first models I ever got were the tactical squad & land speeder and 20-man DE warrior squad that came with a core rule book, 6 dice, 2 rulers, and some scenery. I thought that the core rule book was 2nd Ed, but I guess I was mistaken.
That was 3rd Ed, 2nd Ed box had 2 SM tactical squads, 20 Goff Orks and 40 Grots. I might be wrong with the amount of greenskin minis, that was a few years ago
Nope, entirely correct. There was also a cardboard-cutout Deff Dread
I bought it second-hand sometime during 3rd edition from a friend, at least I think that was when I bought it. Early 2000s anyway. God, such a HUGE difference in quality between those Orks/SM and todays starter box content - the orks were so bloody hard to make look anything but boring, especially with all of them being identical. Oh well, all the old fluff was fun =)
Terminus, please check where the person is from before criticizing their English. I know mine is not perfect and I grew up speaking it. Next time you want to criticize them try speaking in their native language.
If pressed I would say GK will be early 2011
I posted this somewhere on here back in March maybe the start of April.
Putting the pieces together I have been increasingly sure about this since then.
But dark Eldar ARE released in the autumn.
All hail the Pie man, most trusted rumour source over at Warseer.
Redsan you seem to have a pretty good in on this whole thing. What are your thoughts? I will be soooo pissed if DE get the bump...again but I am not seeing anything as far as quality rumors go for either army.
AFAIK, Dark Eldar are still the next codex to roll out, tail end of this year, October or November time. Why so many people got into a flap over Grey Knights, who we won't see until next year IMO, I have no idea.
However I would be very surprised if we heard or saw much until 8th edition WFB has rolled out, with this being a core game, GW are keen to ensure that it gets its very own "moment in the sun". We do get Spearhead in the next (..right ?) WD, and that issue is very 40K heavy. You can actually play Spearhead missions without vehicles IIRC, but it is more designed -- not least by the game being played length wise, towards faster moving units and vehicles.
A cunning man might even look at this almost as us seeing some of the initial batting around of ideas and concepts for 6th edition 40K in some proto form.. but I don't reall want to get dragged onto that tangent as otherwise by tomorrow I'll be reading "OMG111 6th edition 40K is next year 11" or some such on all manner of interesting websites and blogs.
Then we get the new demon releases, which I'm sure will bring about the usual mixed views on the models which will generally mean GW have gotten them right, which is a nice tie in for both fantasy and 40K players of course.
We should also see a few other... hmm..almost random(ish) WFB releases as well perhaps, again "top up" kind of things, I guess a bit like they did with the old Medusa campaign. I'm not quite sure exactly what, but you've all seen the multitude of threadss.
Then the WFB boxset later in the year, followed by the Dark Eldar.
I would be amazed, although very happy, if we saw anything/much prior to UK Games Day, but they are coming.
..Hmm.. that rambled a bit more than I'd intended, apologies.
Grey knights require a lot of reworking though, probably as much as Dark Eldar.
To the best of my knowledge the 'Inquisition' range has only one plastic kit, the Immolator (Ok half a kit). None of the Grey Knight vehicles have their own sprue, they're just base Space Marine kits IIRC.
Given that GW like to release a codex with half a dozen plastic kits, that's a lot of work for the Grey Knights when Dark Eldar are supposedly done and ready to go.
reds8n wrote:Why so many people got into a flap over Grey Knights, who we won't see until next year IMO, I have no idea.
It's because Daemon Prince Adramalech has been quite certain for several months that GK are the next Codex, and he also is rarely wrong.
And yes, Spearhead is in the WD next week.
The problem with DPA is how very very vague he is. I'm not saying I distrust him or doubt his rumours, but they're not exactly statements of fact. I'm much more inclined to put my faith in a rumourmonger that spells out his information clearly, as opposed to one that leaves a degree of ambiguity to their statements. That's just my opinion though. YMMV and all that jazz.
reds8n wrote:Why so many people got into a flap over Grey Knights, who we won't see until next year IMO, I have no idea.
It's because Daemon Prince Adramalech has been quite certain for several months that GK are the next Codex, and he also is rarely wrong.
And yes, Spearhead is in the WD next week.
There's more than only that, easily.
EDIT: What I should say is that there were other, more established reasons for it beyond DPA's little visions. We appreciate them all the same, though.
reds8n wrote:We should also see a few other... hmm..almost random(ish) WFB releases as well perhaps, again "top up" kind of things...
Not sure I understand what you mean by "top up" kind of things - any way you can clarify that, Red?
He means 1-2 releases per army. Like how the orcs and Goblins got boarboys and river trolls completely out of the blue.
Most will be to fill holes in the armies (units without models) and some will be 'redos' of units in armies a long way off geting a new book.
There will likely be a few characters as well as they can sculpt them quickly and get a heap of cash for them.
I'm still a little irritated that demons took the August slot, completely out of the blue. But that's mostly because I've met a total of one demon player, so to me it appears that very few people care about this army. I'm sure that are a lot more than I'm aware and that the demon models release was, in fact, much needed.
But I know I'm not alone in lamenting that, had they not been separated from Chaos Marines, they wouldn't be occupying their own release slot, and Chaos could have otherwise gotten a new codex at this time.
Irrelevant at this point really.
And I suppose the DE position could be worse.
I appreciate this little update, thank you Kroot.
reds8n wrote: AFAIK, Dark Eldar are still the next codex to roll out, tail end of this year, October or November time. Why so many people got into a flap over Grey Knights, who we won't see until next year IMO, I have no idea.
However I would be very surprised if we heard or saw much until 8th edition WFB has rolled out, with this being a core game, GW are keen to ensure that it gets its very own "moment in the sun". We do get Spearhead in the next (..right ?) WD, and that issue is very 40K heavy. You can actually play Spearhead missions without vehicles IIRC, but it is more designed -- not least by the game being played length wise, towards faster moving units and vehicles.
A cunning man might even look at this almost as us seeing some of the initial batting around of ideas and concepts for 6th edition 40K in some proto form.. but I don't reall want to get dragged onto that tangent as otherwise by tomorrow I'll be reading "OMG111 6th edition 40K is next year 11" or some such on all manner of interesting websites and blogs.
I think you are 100% spot on about this, and I don't believe this is necessarily new. GW called Cityfight a different way to play 40K, but some it's core rules ended up in 5th edition. Apocolypse even pushed the envelope for vehicle squadrons (IG now get Leman Russ squadrons) and other FW only type units to test if folks would buy into it. They did and we're getting more of those bigger kits that are even showing up in codexes. Even the latest missions book is probably a good precursor as to how 40K missions will change for the next edition.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Phil did only an OKish job on CWE (3.5/5), and Jes' mk.II Rhino is merely par (2.5/5).
Tearing myself away from that hugely distracting avatar of yours for a moment, this is a typical throwaway superior comment. Merely 'par' with what? Setting aside the fact that like all GW vehicles it's overpriced for a plastic kit, what is merely 'par' about the Rhino? It wasn't designed by Jes, incidentally, but by Tim Adcock. Jes designed the Land Raider.
Yeah, I really don't see what's wrong with the rhino, either. Judging it purely based on looks that is, I'm sure a lot of people could go on for hours about how unrealistic the design is...
Sidstyler wrote:Judging it purely based on looks that is, I'm sure a lot of people could go on for hours about how unrealistic the design is...
But that would just be silly.
I think it's very disappointing the rhino design is so unrealistic, especially when you compare the Falcon to existing grav-tanks or the stompa to the great walkers deployed at the Normandy Landings.
Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, I really don't see what's wrong with the rhino, either. Judging it purely based on looks that is, I'm sure a lot of people could go on for hours about how unrealistic the design is...
The rhino looks almost exactly like a real life APC. I'd say I'd be amazed if someone thought it was unrealistic, but hell, this is the Internet, we have all sorts of "good" posters here.
A GW manager revealed that GW wants to make the announcment of 8th Warhammer Fantasy edition the mother of all GW marketing campaigns, which resulted in them saying: "New edition in July, game features humans, elves and orks." That's it. Don't expect more from their DE marketing
I think Phil did a great job with Eldar. I mean, it's still a very powerful, competitive army without needing to really spam vehicles. Though the SC change was asinine and they still aren't worth the points.
So I give it 4.5/5. The new LR is ace though. 5/5 for the LR.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Phil did only an OKish job on CWE (3.5/5), and Jes' mk.II Rhino is merely par (2.5/5).
Tailgunner wrote:Merely 'par' with what?
Jes designed the Land Raider.
par with all of the other vehicles in the GW universe. And for the record, the DE at time of release were generally at par (Warriors above par).
Actually, Jes' Land Raider is not a huge plus in my book. Ground clearance is abyssmal, needing almost another 1/4" to look right.
____
BrookM wrote:Now you are just nitpicking for ammo to use against Dark Eldar.
And yes, Jes didn't do the final Rhino, shame on you.
You're reading more than what I'm saying. I'm only saying that Jes' work isn't perfect. It's very consistently good, but you never know what'll be the result until the model comes out. Now, if there were some pics to see...
Sorry about thinking that. I though Jes did all of the SM plastics, and I WAS WRONG!
*permission granted to quote the bolded part for posterity. ____
Fateweaver wrote:I think Phil did a great job with Eldar. I mean, it's still a very powerful, competitive army without needing to really spam vehicles. So I give it 4.5/5.
The new LR is ace though. 5/5 for the LR.
"Classic" Craftworld Biel-Tan with massive Aspect spam is largely unplayable. Transports are vastly overpriced. Un-fluffy Guardian spam supported. Poor ranged firepower. The rest is OK, hence the 3.5/5 rating. In the context of the current Codices, it's a clear nerf.
The Land Raider is better than the ("new") Russ, but needs work.
I feel like a pre-teen girl who's just discovered a video of Edward and Jacob necking. That's so hot.
What's it from?
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JohnHwangDD wrote:
par with all of the other vehicles in the GW universe. And for the record, the DE at time of release were generally at par (Warriors above par).
DE warriors above par? If that's your baseline I must protest your lack of common sense and assault on decency, sir. Uninspired design, flaccid sculpting which encouraged non-dynamic poses (for arguably the most flexible and agile race) and poor anatomy. Back that up with a lack of options, it has always been the weakest of all of the plastic 40k troops.
DE warriors above par? If that's your baseline I must protest your lack of common sense and assault on decency, sir. Uninspired design, flaccid sculpting which encouraged non-dynamic poses (for arguably the most flexible and agile race) and poor anatomy. Back that up with a lack of options, it has always been the weakest of all of the plastic 40k troops.
They were always hopeless ugly things. I seem to recall one of the earliest DE articles was on converting them to have more dynamic poses.
JohnHwangDD wrote: And for the record, the DEat time of release were generally at par (Warriors above par).
DE warriors above par? If that's your baseline I must protest your lack of common sense and assault on decency, sir. Uninspired design, flaccid sculpting which encouraged non-dynamic poses (for arguably the most flexible and agile race) and poor anatomy. Back that up with a lack of options, it has always been the weakest of all of the plastic 40k troops.
See the highlight? That's the critical bit.
DE plastic Warriors came out over a decade ago, back in 1998. They were easily-convertible plastic. Very good models at the time, definitely better than average. At the time, the only competitive plastics were the Space Marines and Empire troops.
Dig out your 1998 Catalog if you don't believe me. Go through the Warhammer 5E stuff in detail and tell me if you can still make that statement. Check out the big-hands Zoanthrope, Nagash, and the Von Carstein Vampires in particular. Within context, the DE really aren't so bad.
Gotta argue...er...discuss the version of the new rhino. Being a Marine and riding around in a few APC's-ish that we use, I have to say it is spot on. Land Raider? Love the new one, the old one was...odd but thats the 80's for ya.
Im looking forward to DE if Jes is doing them, I met him a few Gamesday's ago in LA (I think it was) and talked to him at length about modelling eldar and he seemed to have a real passion for it. He said something to the effect of wishing to get rid of the "pointy" helmets but the company wants to keep that appearance. It would be liking getting rid of space marines giant useless shoulder pads...I mean are shoulders that vulnerable in the future? Anyways, thats my 2 pennies.
With reading someother posts...another 2 pennies...Im not sure we will see dark eldar too soon. With the release of the daemon next wave (finally) coinciding with 8th ed fantasy, it looks like Daemonhunters will be next.
Father Gabe wrote:Im looking forward to DE if Jes is doing them, I met him a few Gamesday's ago in LA (I think it was) and talked to him at length about modelling eldar and he seemed to have a real passion for it. He said something to the effect of wishing to get rid of the "pointy" helmets but the company wants to keep that appearance. It would be liking getting rid of space marines giant useless shoulder pads...I mean are shoulders that vulnerable in the future? Anyways, thats my 2 pennies.
You wouldn't believe. I'm doing some freelance illustration work for FFG on the Deathwatch line and man, do GW have some strict guidelines in regards to Marines. It's like they put a standard pattern Marine in Sevres and now have to adhere to it by the milliliter. Or maybe they're just asinine towards FFG, I don't know.
JohnHwangDD wrote: And for the record, the DEat time of release were generally at par (Warriors above par).
DE warriors above par? If that's your baseline I must protest your lack of common sense and assault on decency, sir. Uninspired design, flaccid sculpting which encouraged non-dynamic poses (for arguably the most flexible and agile race) and poor anatomy. Back that up with a lack of options, it has always been the weakest of all of the plastic 40k troops.
See the highlight? That's the critical bit.
DE plastic Warriors came out over a decade ago, back in 1998. They were easily-convertible plastic. Very good models at the time, definitely better than average. At the time, the only competitive plastics were the Space Marines and Empire troops.
Dig out your 1998 Catalog if you don't believe me. Go through the Warhammer 5E stuff in detail and tell me if you can still make that statement. Check out the big-hands Zoanthrope, Nagash, and the Von Carstein Vampires in particular. Within context, the DE really aren't so bad.
Naaah. They were still below par, even before they were officially released.
Purely going by plastics, they were bottom of the offerings at the time. Marines set the baseline, and were superior. Marines, along with Empire, proved plastics didn't need to sacrifice personality for convenience. The plastic DE did just that. You can go back even further to GW's first trials with plastics. The Imperial Guard and eldar plastic/metal hybrids were better than the DE. The two-piece eldar plastics were better.
The DE were a step back whether you compare to their metal counterparts, or the previous plastic offerings.
"Zoanthrope, Nagash, and the Von Carstein Vampires". Yep, none should have been released. But they weren't plastic, they weren't troops, and they would get half a star at best out of five. Zero if you want to throw Lemartes in there.
Strangely enough, 1998 is the only Catalogue I own, though it's buried somewhere. Most armies, whether fantasy or 40k, had solid troops at the time. DE Warriors were a bland setback.
JohnHwangDD wrote:DE plastic Warriors came out over a decade ago, back in 1998. They were easily-convertible plastic. Very good models at the time, definitely better than average. At the time, the only competitive plastics were the Space Marines and Empire troops.
Dig out your 1998 Catalog if you don't believe me. Go through the Warhammer 5E stuff in detail and tell me if you can still make that statement. Check out the big-hands Zoanthrope, Nagash, and the Von Carstein Vampires in particular. Within context, the DE really aren't so bad.
Purely going by plastics, they were bottom of the offerings at the time. Marines set the baseline, and were superior. Marines, along with Empire, proved plastics didn't need to sacrifice personality for convenience.
"Zoanthrope, Nagash, and the Von Carstein Vampires". Yep, none should have been released. But they weren't plastic, they weren't troops, and they would get half a star at best out of five. Zero if you want to throw Lemartes in there.
At the time the DE plastics were released, GW was still selling the 5-man / 6-man mini-boxes of mono-pose plastics. The DE plastics were clearly superior to Chaos' plastic PM and zerks. And the old WE plastics? Ugh. Like the WFB Empire State Troops, the plastic SM set a new standard for 40k which is only now being generally met or exceeded. But to say that the DE plastics were bad willfully ignores all of the other plastics available at the time, including the SHulk Termies.
Those old metals are comparison points for the rest of the DE line - the much-derided Grotesques, for example aren't nearly as bad as those. And some of the metals (e.g. Lilith) are actually quite decent. Even today, the Talos compares favorably to the recently-redone Dark Elf Cauldron.
You doubt the awesomeness that is the team of Phil and Jes?
Heretic.
The models, I am sure, will rock if Jes is doing them. The codex will be good to great, with the only "IF" being how much the Marketing department forces "sell these new models!" down their throat rather than trusting Goodwin + Kelly to do the job on their own.
Am I the only one who acctually still like the look of the DE Warriors? Sure, they aren't fantastic, but they are easy to convert, has nice weapon options on their sprues and look good on the battlefield.
I really don't know how they are supposed to be improved and I'm probably going to bitch about the new ones when they're released
...If it ain't broken, then you probably haven't tried to improve it enough.
The DE warriors aren't HORRIBLE IMO, but not good either. You shave off the spikes and you're getting somewhere. But damn near everything else—wyches, reaver jetbikes, archons, scourges, et al.—were vile, and not in a cool goth way. Just VILE. I've wanted DE for years and it's been the model line that's kept me from it and I've never felt like converting a bunch of dark elves or non-GW models just to play them. The model redoux alone is what I'm looking for. I will make the codex suffice provided it still has that similar hit-and-run, glass cannon play style.
JohnHwangDD wrote:par with all of the other vehicles in the GW universe. And for the record, the DE at time of release were generally at par (Warriors above par).
Actually, Jes' Land Raider is not a huge plus in my book. Ground clearance is abyssmal, needing almost another 1/4" to look right.
I still don't get this. At the time of the Mkii Rhino's release, it was something of a step forward in terms of quality and design. While it was based on the Land Raider template, the fit is better and the details are crisper. It's still a fantasy model, so it's got its quirks (principally the weird multiple engines), but given that that basic Rhino design was retained, it's a nice model, and a versatile one.
To dismiss the Land Raider just because of its unrealistic ground clearance is pointless. It's a universe where sponson weapons are common, people charge out of frontally-mounted ramps and vehicles engage each other at point blank range. In that context, ground clearance (like realistic suspension design) becomes a bit irrelevant.
What matters is whether a model looks 'right' in the context of the game universe. The problem with most of the Dark Eldar models is that they were poorly animated and aspects of the designs were just plain ugly. The decision to go with a bondage theme, for instance, resulted in the bug-eyed heads on the Reaver riders while the Wyches look more like badly dressed exotic dancers than ferocious warriors. The plastic Warriors went together quite well, and looked acceptable with all the spikes removed, but they were pretty uninspired. I know - I built 5 squads of them, and I'd run out of different poses after I'd built 10. I don't think they can be described as 'par'; as Mastiff said, they were a step down from the Marines. Remember that the Brian Nelson-designed plastic Orks appeared soon after the plastic DE, and they still look great 10 years later. By that standard, the Warriors were pretty poor.
Enigma wrote:Am I the only one who acctually still like the look of the DE Warriors? Sure, they aren't fantastic, but they are easy to convert, has nice weapon options on their sprues
I stopped reading there. No way. The sprue only has a Splinter Cannon. No Dark Lances, no Blasters, no Shredders. I'm not a hater, the warriors are not a problem for me. As you say they are very customizable and look great with a good paintjob. But the options in the sprue are sooo poor...
If the new warriors box (I guess it will be a 10 minis kit) doesn't include all the options, my nerdrage will be legendary.
We get a box of 16 and have Splinter cannons, hand weapons and pistols. Not to mention the standard rifle. That's quite a lot of options. Sure, we don't have blasters, shredders or lances, but we still have a lot ^^
And as others have said before. This was a good set when they were released. Whatdid the Craftworlders get at that time? two-piece plastic/metal guardians? No extra weapons at all? then when they get redone the still only get standard shuriken catapults...
No, I like the look of the warriors, and I stil lthink there's a lot of options. But yes. Some more weapons wouldnt hurt and i do agree thatthe entire bondage-thing was a mistake. i don't use the metal archons and the reavers look horrible with those hemets and leather clothes...
I built my army on warriors and raiders and go for a shooty pirate force so I don't have to use those units
Enigma wrote:We get a box of 16 and have Splinter cannons, hand weapons and pistols. Not to mention the standard rifle. That's quite a lot of options. Sure, we don't have blasters, shredders or lances, but we still have a lot ^^
Um, yeah, but hand weapons and pistols are not something that DE Warriors can be equipped with as per the codex, so their existence on the sprue is kind of meaningless. The only way to have a DE Warrior equipped with Pistol & CCW is to upgrade one to a Sybarite and purchase that equipment. Considering the fact that you can only have one such per unit, it's silly the sheer amount of pistols and combat blades that abound on the sprue. I would gladly have exchanged every one of them for a single Dark Lance.
In a 16 warriors box we get 4 splinter cannons (too many) and 4 splinter pistols and ccw kits (too many again). It's a bad distribution. I wouldn't complaint about warriors if they included more options.
Enigma wrote:And as others have said before. This was a good set when they were released. Whatdid the Craftworlders get at that time? two-piece plastic/metal guardians? No extra weapons at all? then when they get redone the still only get standard shuriken catapults...
Do Craftworld Eldar have special weapon options? They have the platforms. And platforms have always been available for them. DE had some blisters, 2 warriors with DL, 2 warriors with special weapons, sybarites... In addition to the plastic box, it was great. Until GW decided to discontinue the blisters. Then it turned out that we had one viable option to build a unit, and we didn't have the minis. DL and blasters are the base of a DE army. DL are mail order only. Blasters are MIA. The only option we have is converting minis.
That deal is not that good as it used to be after all.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about the amount of options, and not about if visually the minis are cool or ugly. I said, I like the warriors.
Enigma wrote:We get a box of 16 and have Splinter cannons, hand weapons and pistols. Not to mention the standard rifle. That's quite a lot of options. Sure, we don't have blasters, shredders or lances, but we still have a lot ^^
Um, yeah, but hand weapons and pistols are not something that DE Warriors can be equipped with as per the codex, so their existence on the sprue is kind of meaningless. The only way to have a DE Warrior equipped with Pistol & CCW is to upgrade one to a Sybarite and purchase that equipment. Considering the fact that you can only have one such per unit, it's silly the sheer amount of pistols and combat blades that abound on the sprue. I would gladly have exchanged every one of them for a single Dark Lance.
Lots of weapons to make mandrakes or other characters. I don't mind at all, but as I said, yes, some more blasters or DL would be nicer
Erasoketa wrote:Do Craftworld Eldar have special weapon options? They have the platforms. And platforms have always been available for them. DE had some blisters, 2 warriors with DL, 2 warriors with special weapons, sybarites... In addition to the plastic box, it was great. Until GW decided to discontinue the blisters. Then it turned out that we had one viable option to build a unit, and we didn't have the minis. DL and blasters are the base of a DE army. DL are mail order only. Blasters are MIA. The only option we have is converting minis.
Sure, Flamers and Fusion guns, as well as hand weapons and pistols. That's storm guardians though . And the platform werent included in the box at that time either :(
Going a bit of topic there. I'm just saying that I liked the options they had at the time of their release, and I still like the look of the models. I think that we all agree though that they need a lot more weapon options when they get their rerelease
JohnHwangDD wrote:Actually, Jes' Land Raider is not a huge plus in my book. Ground clearance is abyssmal, needing almost another 1/4" to look right.
To dismiss the Land Raider just because of its unrealistic ground clearance is pointless. What matters is whether a model looks 'right' in the context of the game universe.
The problem with most of the Dark Eldar models is that they were poorly animated and aspects of the designs were just plain ugly. The plastic Warriors went together quite well, and looked acceptable with all the spikes removed, but they were pretty uninspired. I know - I built 5 squads of them, and I'd run out of different poses after I'd built 10.
My interpretation of the 40k game universe requires vehicles to have a certain amount of ground clearance. The Land Raider is the only ground vehicle which completely fails here. Rhino? check. Chimera? check. Leman Russ? check. Baneblade? No problem. Land Raider? Fail.
You're talking to a guy with metal Guard, metal Eldar, and metal Sisters. I accept some limit in posability.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I think it's very disappointing the rhino design is so unrealistic, especially when you compare the Falcon to existing grav-tanks or the stompa to the great walkers deployed at the Normandy Landings.
Gah! It really pisses me off when people spout military "history" without the facts.
The Stompas were NEVER utilized during the Normandy Landings, but rather in the breakout Operation Cobra that followed Operation Overlord.
And that's exactly what I did with an extra 10 men of DE Warriors...made them into Mandrakes. I used the un-helmeted heads and all the CCW/pistols. I do have blisters of the actual metal mandrakes but I've never had a desire to paint them.
Enigma wrote:We get a box of 16 and have Splinter cannons, hand weapons and pistols.
And as others have said before. This was a good set when they were released. Whatdid the Craftworlders get at that time? two-piece plastic/metal guardians? No extra weapons at all? then when they get redone the still only get standard shuriken catapults...
At the time DE came out, getting FREE Heavy weapons on the sprue was a huge bonus. Aside from the SM Flamer & ML, everything else was metal and cost extra.
Craftworlders were monopose Guardians with Lasgun, later repacked with metal Shuricat bit. No extra champion / special / heavy weapons. AGPs were expensive metal blisters.
Redone was an 8-part Guardian with shuricats only. Disappointing, really, and I ended not getting any because they didn't match.
JohnHwangDD wrote:My interpretation of the 40k game universe requires vehicles to have a certain amount of ground clearance. The Land Raider is the only ground vehicle which completely fails here. Rhino? check. Chimera? check. Leman Russ? check. Baneblade? No problem. Land Raider? Fail.
But don't land raiders only appear on flat, nicely mowed battlefields? You don't need ground clearance for paint and/or flock
OT, something here is making me crave two bowls full of jello with a peanut on each...
JohnHwangDD wrote:My interpretation of the 40k game universe requires vehicles to have a certain amount of ground clearance. The Land Raider is the only ground vehicle which completely fails here.
But don't land raiders only appear on flat, nicely mowed battlefields? You don't need ground clearance for paint and/or flock
OT, something here is making me crave two bowls full of jello with a peanut on each...
Not every battlefield is a lawn...
No idea what you're talking about.
____
Saldiven wrote:Ok, I've been resisting, it, but I can't help it anymore...
JHDD, your avatar is just ridiculous. It looks like something you'd see on the International Sexy Ladies Show on G4.
The Dark Eldar Warriors started ageing in dog years once the multi-part Guardians were released. The Guardians are much nicer models, even if they don't have any options on the sprue.
Vyper/Razorback hybrid transport with many weapon options.
“Fighter” designed to take out other skimmers.
“Bomber” designed for well bombing…
Mandrakes are in and have scout (duh)
Melta & Lance weapon confirmed str 6 12″ range.
Talos is in, specialized in killing Walkers.
Combat drugs are in and are “streamlined”
Army wide ability which is a cross between Red Thirst and Epidemius tally power (revolves around casualties inflicted)
No vehicle will have an AV higher than 11 (keeping with past editions)
Dark Eldar are a designed as an Alpha Strike army. If you can survive the first turn you will have a good shot of beating them.
Expect a Sept-Nov release. So put away your Nemesis Force Weapons they are not coming till Jan 2011 at the earliest.
This is the first time I can ever recall there being such back and forth debate over the next 40K release. While all that is going on, GW drops the bomb and states another wave of Demon releases are coming later this year.
Jeez, there was a time leaked copies of rulebooks and codexes were cropping up 6 months prior to release.
Vyper/Razorback hybrid transport with many weapon options.
“Fighter” designed to take out other skimmers.
“Bomber” designed for well bombing…
Mandrakes are in and have scout (duh)
Melta & Lance weapon confirmed str 6 12″ range.
Talos is in, specialized in killing Walkers.
Combat drugs are in and are “streamlined”
Army wide ability which is a cross between Red Thirst and Epidemius tally power (revolves around casualties inflicted)
No vehicle will have an AV higher than 11 (keeping with past editions)
Dark Eldar are a designed as an Alpha Strike army. If you can survive the first turn you will have a good shot of beating them.
Expect a Sept-Nov release. So put away your Nemesis Force Weapons they are not coming till Jan 2011 at the earliest.
I am sorry but how reliable is your information? I just don't want to be lead on like what happend in march.
Sarigar wrote:Jeez, there was a time leaked copies of rulebooks and codexes were cropping up 6 months prior to release.
Those were certainly much happier times. Leaked pictures generated a lot of excitement and anticipation. But now there's nothing to get excited about. All rumor discussion has degraded to petty squabbling over what SHOULD be the next release.
I am very interested in seeing some new figures for the DE. My brother recently got a DE Archon and a retinue. I liked the incubi models but I didn't really like the Archon. I at least hope they make most of the DE models plastic.
Two full squads of Incubi....I'd love to see them updated in plastic. And if some of the rumors putting them in an Elite's spot is true, I'll glady pick up a box of new ones. 4 squads of Incubi would be so nice... But damned pricey if the points remain the same.
Cannot say I am dissapointed with this one, DE have deserved this update for awhile and I'm happy to see these guys (as much as I hate them) get a new view.
so everyone talks about how bad the archon looks. i totally agree but i must say that i did like the dracon model a ton more. it just wasnt as...idiotic looking
Ah, yeah Agonisers are nice. Pretty much like a power weapon that wounds on 4+.. Or well, exactly like a powerweapon that wounds on a 4+.. And of course the vehicle glancing on a 6.
Incubi are pretty darn expensive to be DE's though.. But then again, they're good. However, 25pts is pretty over-pricy, for that one would get a GK with a Stormbolter, Power Armour, and a Nemesis Force Weapon, and have MEQ stats but 5 WS. If I were an Incubi and saw one of those guys I'd kick whoever that's riding the Raider out of his seat, steal his spot and turn about going flat out in another direction.
Riffzor wrote:Yeah I prefer the Dracon model... What's that staff though, what weapon is that supposed to be? =P
its an agoniser works great on my buddy';s hive tyrant XD
In fact, it is not defined. Agonisers can have take a lot of shapes (blades, whips, staffs). That staff can be perfectly used as agoniser, punisher, power weapon...
Yeah I remember thinking that commander models for all other armies were amazing, so I was really excited to see what the DE commander would look like. Then I saw him with his princess hat and his banana fingers and was deeply disappointed. Worst commander model of all time.
Incubi have always been the best models imo though. I use Vect's bodyguard as my Incubi master. You can check him out in my gallery images.
Riffzor wrote:Incubi are pretty darn expensive to be DE's though.. But then again, they're good. However, 25pts is pretty over-pricy, for that one would get a GK with a Stormbolter, Power Armour, and a Nemesis Force Weapon, and have MEQ stats but 5 WS. If I were an Incubi and saw one of those guys I'd kick whoever that's riding the Raider out of his seat, steal his spot and turn about going flat out in another direction.
Well, an incubi still attacks first, hits on 4+ and wounds on 4+ without save. It could be worse. (Asuming that PAGK use regular powerarmours and that nemesis force weapons don't have a "strikes first" rule. I haven't read DH codex so I don't know the rules)
Archonate wrote:Yeah I remember thinking that commander models for all other armies were amazing, so I was really excited to see what the DE commander would look like. Then I saw him with his princess hat and his banana fingers and was deeply disappointed. Worst commander model of all time.
Incubi have always been the best models imo though. I use Vect's bodyguard as my Incubi master. You can check him out in my gallery images.
Oh gawd, it's the guy with the awsome Dark Eldar Raiders!
Yeah I saw, they're really cool.
Edit: Just saw your other reply.
Yeah NFW don't have any strike first rules, however they've got S6 (model's strength +2) although they aren't power weapons unless used by a Brother-Captain or higher.
Riffzor wrote:Dark Eldars don't have Power Weapons =o
Check "one handed weapons" list in the armory page edit: the armory page in the DE codex, I mean xD
Riffzor wrote:Edit: Just saw your other reply.
Yeah NFW don't have any strike first rules, however they've got S6 (model's strength +2) although they aren't power weapons unless used by a Brother-Captain or higher.
If it doesn't affect his T value or his save, the chances of a grey knight to survive are still the same. 4+ 4+. But if they survive yes, our buddies are in a BIG trouble.
Riffzor wrote:Dark Eldars don't have Power Weapons =o
Check "one handed weapons" list in the armory page edit: the armory page in the DE codex, I mean xD
Oh, hey they do have power wea-- 15pts for a Power Weapon? Don't they usually cost like nothing for Sargeants and stuffs for IG/Space marines and stuff?
Riffzor wrote:Dark Eldars don't have Power Weapons =o
Check "one handed weapons" list in the armory page edit: the armory page in the DE codex, I mean xD
Oh, hey they do have power wea-- 15pts for a Power Weapon? Don't they usually cost like nothing for Sargeants and stuffs for IG/Space marines and stuff?
Nope, the value for other armies varies between 10p (IG) and 15p (SM and SoB).
Riffzor wrote:Incubi are pretty darn expensive to be DE's though.. But then again, they're good. However, 25pts is pretty over-pricy, for that one would get a GK with a Stormbolter, Power Armour, and a Nemesis Force Weapon, and have MEQ stats but 5 WS. If I were an Incubi and saw one of those guys I'd kick whoever that's riding the Raider out of his seat, steal his spot and turn about going flat out in another direction.
with that high of initiative and with that many attacks with power weapons i can easily take down a reasonably sized force of MEQs as long as they dont swarm around me all at one
Riffzor wrote:*facedesks* Argh now I feel so stupid, I was thinking of the old BRB in which a close combat weapon in the wargear list cost like 1 or 2 points >.<
Hahahaha regular close combat weapons without any special rules are usually free for unit leaders, and cost like 1p for a HQ. But a power weapon has special rules. It invalidates the armour save of your opponent, hence the point cost.
SwanCo wrote:
Riffzor wrote:Incubi are pretty darn expensive to be DE's though.. But then again, they're good. However, 25pts is pretty over-pricy, for that one would get a GK with a Stormbolter, Power Armour, and a Nemesis Force Weapon, and have MEQ stats but 5 WS. If I were an Incubi and saw one of those guys I'd kick whoever that's riding the Raider out of his seat, steal his spot and turn about going flat out in another direction.
with that high of initiative and with that many attacks with power weapons i can easily take down a reasonably sized force of MEQs as long as they dont swarm around me all at one
That's what I meant. MEQ are scary, but if they want to attack a DE, they first have to survive the DE attack.
Riffzor wrote:*grins* Yeah but what if some wicked Thousand Sons pops up? Inferno bolts makes short-work of Incubi!
Dark lances spam. And charge them when there are few left
Riffzor wrote:Incubi are pretty darn expensive to be DE's though.. But then again, they're good. However, 25pts is pretty over-pricy, for that one would get a GK with a Stormbolter, Power Armour, and a Nemesis Force Weapon, and have MEQ stats but 5 WS. If I were an Incubi and saw one of those guys I'd kick whoever that's riding the Raider out of his seat, steal his spot and turn about going flat out in another direction.
with that high of initiative and with that many attacks with power weapons i can easily take down a reasonably sized force of MEQs as long as they dont swarm around me all at one
That's what I meant. MEQ are scary, but if they want to attack a DE, they first have to survive the DE attack.
Exactly the only time my whole retinue has been killed was actually killed by tau. I will be happy to say that he shot all of his Railguns and fusion blasters into them. everytime i field them they make up for atleast their point value and on many occasions doubled it
Yeah I've been looking pretty closely on the Tau the last few hours now, I'm really gushing over some of their stuffs.
Railguns, Markerlights, Seeker Missiles, High-Strength weapons on their fire warriors... And they look pretty darn good.
But I still dread their must have HQ choise of that chicken-goat-box XV suit thingy.. Which rocks, but looks dreadfull.
But then there's the DE.. The more I hear of them the more I want them, but I'd hate to sit there with my old 3'rd ed codex watching some flashy new IG and Inquisition Codices of my friends.. Why, oh why does the DE have to wait until Christmas? =s
go DE...their current Dex is only 5 bucks through chaos orc so you'd might as well and just get a new one when it comes out...a five$ investment isnt that big a deal when your buying 45$ box sets
Yeah, I read their Fluff and pretty much raged at it >.<
Almost reason enough to kick them out of my head... But it's hard with their shiny stuffs!
But I guess you're right, Tau are much more common than DE (the owner of my Local Store said he was pretty close to pick them out of their store since there's no one in my town playing them xD) I would probably bump into none before Christmas, when I guess everyone's gonna buy themselves some new DE's.
But then again, those fragile vehicles makes me a bit sad. ='<
Fragile vehicles make up for it with huge firepower. as long as you go first you have a very good chance of winning, if you look in my sig you can see the 1 loss and 1 draw, i got those the two times i went second :(
Back OT, anyone have any more art or anything leaked? the pics before looked pretty
But then there's the DE.. The more I hear of them the more I want them, but I'd hate to sit there with my old 3'rd ed codex watching some flashy new IG and Inquisition Codices of my friends.. Why, oh why does the DE have to wait until Christmas? =s
Join the club, it's been like that for me for the past 6 years.
Yeah I've been looking pretty closely on the Tau the last few hours now, I'm really gushing over some of their stuffs.
Railguns, Markerlights, Seeker Missiles, High-Strength weapons on their fire warriors... And they look pretty darn good.
But I still dread their must have HQ choise of that chicken-goat-box XV suit thingy.. Which rocks, but looks dreadfull.
Tau is a decent army to start, especially if you like the aesthetic of the army.
Just be aware that the crisis suits core design will probably change in the next codex (based on the direction forgeworld is going, and that they are an army that spends about 80% of their turn in the shooting phase, with the other 20% in the movement and rarely contributes to assault.
Anyhow, I think I'm gonna have to start a thread about the decision of army I have to make, it's been pretty spread out over several different threads. >.<
And yeah, 6 years is a long time for a team to be left without changes, GW better make it good now! >=D
Time to break out the greenstuff 
