http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1430057&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k
























EDIT: Some Spearhead rules info brought to our attention on page 7 of this thread by Redemption:

Redemption wrote:A quick preview of the rules, by Bramgaunt:

BramGaunt wrote:Spearhead, and how you play it!

Basically at least, I'm not giving any detail (because I can't, I was just given a short overview)

1st: Pick your Army.

You all know the basic FoC? Can draw it while sleeping? Good. Spearhead uses the same FoC - with two major changes. The first: No minimums. You don't have to field a HQ. You don't need Core Units. The Second: There are apocalypse-datasheet-like Units. You may field as many of those as you want, though you may not duplicate any of them.
So, your army will consist of: 0 - 2 HQ, 0 - 3 Elites, 0-6 Core, 0-3 Fast attack, 0-3 Heavy support, and 0+ "Big Spearhead Units". Appearantly, if you are having a 2000 points battle, you would have to field something. Just pick your choice.

So: You don't need to field anything with a AV at all. It's just that anything with a AV will get some huge boosts.

2nd: Deployment.

Both armys are deployed at the narrow board edges. Ah, Meltaguns for infantry only work like, 12 inches? To bad. It's your fault showing up with infantry for a tank battle. Forward, for the emperor, CHARGE!! (Though, not to far forward, remember, they got meltaguns...)

3rd: Scoring units: In addition to core units, any vehicle or walker and all Spearhead-battlehosts score. Even if immobilized, stunned or shaken and/or stripped of all weapons.

And that's it. Enjoy =)

So, you don't need to have huge units of tanks (or any tanks at all for that matter), but they do get bonusses.

Edit: Some more from Frgt/10:

Frgt/10 wrote:in addition to this;
- spearhead units are either groups of 3 tanks (no more no less) OR groups of 1 superheavy
- the spearhead formations gain different USRs depending on their role; ie: tankhunters for pred annihilators, scout for some fast vehicles, etc
- works similar to apoc formations, with a small points cost for the spearhead formation
- pretty sure superheavies don't get USRs

I love the Manticore but Pask is awful. Might stick to a plastic stand in

I am a little underwhelmed by the Manticore design, preferring the FW design as I do. I quite like the hull design, provides a few conversion possibilities.

The squadron command sprue looks to be a waste of plastic for imperial armies [more voxes!?!], is it even new?

Pask seems to have been given a Chelsea Smile.

notprop wrote:I am a little underwhelmed by the Manticore design, preferring the FW design as I do. I quite like the hull design, provides a few conversion possibilities.

The squadron command sprue looks to be a waste of plastic for imperial armies [more voxes!?!], is it even new?

No, it's a rerelease from Apoc.

Sigh... Pask? Really? I'll just keep using some of my old metal tank drivers as Pask.

I LOVE the Manticore...

Can't say I'm a big fan of the Eldar Support Weapon crew 'riding' the weapon though. It certainly does help to differentiate them from the standard Eldar Heavy Weapon platforms, which I guess is good.

Fire Prism looks much better than I expected, the support weapon looks terribly uninspired. It really looks to me like no effort was made on it at all. Almost no one ever bought those things anyway, so why bother to redo them unless you're going to make the models (or the rules) awesome?

Lemme guess, in 5th edition Wraithlords will get the option of taking a support weapon but the model kit won't be changed, so you'll have to buy the support weapon kit to make the conversion.

yakface wrote:
I LOVE the Manticore...

Can't say I'm a big fan of the Eldar Support Weapon crew 'riding' the weapon though. It certainly does help to differentiate them from the standard Eldar Heavy Weapon platforms, which I guess is good.

I concur with all of this. I'm definitely buying a manticore, just to build. Maybe two even. The deathstrike is unique looking. More likely I'll just get a battery of Manticores.

The support weapons are a disappointing choice to make plastic, but more plastic is a good thing, so... it's neutral I guess? Wish they'd done wraithguard in plastic. I'd be building an Iyanden army instead of painting a single squad. I may pick up a Fire Prism though and shorten the barrel.

Welp gonna need three of those deathstrikes.

That new Fire Prism is utter kack!! Holy moley! The one interesting and unique Eldar tank and they turn it into a glorified street lamp!

Colour me unimpressed.

And IG tanks are still naff.

Nope. Not for me!

Man, go to the GW page and look at the Fire Prism kit. Check out the old frames for the Falcon body and compare them to the new one that has the Fire Prism and Deathspinner turrets.

GW has gotten waaaay better in all these years at cramming junk onto their frames. Those old Falcon frames just look eerily barren now in comparison.

Not impressed of LRBT , the turret looks cheap and toy like.
I lol when i saw the Eldar Support Platform , well i guess its ok since i kept my metal one .

But... I love the Manticore / Death Strike. This will certainly persuade people to buy atleast 3 for their IG army.

I cant wait to not buy any of this.

yakface wrote:
Man, go to the GW page and look at the Fire Prism kit. Check out the old frames for the Falcon body and compare them to the new one that has the Fire Prism and Deathspinner turrets.

GW has gotten waaaay better in all these years at cramming junk onto their frames. Those old Falcon frames just look eerily barren now in comparison.

But they still can't fit every option in an entry on the sprue. There's always something missing so you have to buy another box.

Come on GW, can we just get the last four IG tanks now? Please? Hydra, Colossus, Medusa, and Griffin?

Hell, I'll settle for the Colossus and the Griffin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellfury wrote:I cant wait to not buy any of this.

Oh my word, let me die of shock.

The Fire Prism looks incredibly good in the official pictures. I love it. The rest of the stuff I find lacking in a variety of ways.

Come on GW, can we just get the last four IG tanks now? Please? Hydra, Colossus, Medusa, and Griffin?

To me the Hydra would be the most important one, since I would need 6 or even 9 of them and I'm not happy about ordering that many resin kits from Forgeworld.

Therion wrote:The Fire Prism looks incredibly good in the official pictures. I love it. The rest of the stuff I find lacking in a variety of ways.

Come on GW, can we just get the last four IG tanks now? Please? Hydra, Colossus, Medusa, and Griffin?

To me the Hydra would be the most important one, since I would need 6 or even 9 of them and I'm not happy about ordering that many resin kits from Forgeworld.

Yeah, lol, I have the same motivation for the Colossus and the Griffin. I want 2 or 3 batteries of 2 Colossus and 1 Griffin each.

Scottywan82 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellfury wrote:I cant wait to not buy any of this.

Oh my word, let me die of shock.

Unwarranted snarkiness? From Scottywan? Even more shocking!

The tank commander in that first pic looks like a midget.

I don't mind pask but I wouldn't pay $9.90 for a torso. I'll keep doing what I do where any guy sticking out of a hatch can count as pask.

Really loving the manticore and deathstrike. Gonna have to see if they can be magnetized, but I'm guessing no because they want you to buy extra tanks you don't need.

I get red x's here, can someone post the pics on dakka, so us firewall challenged folks can see the pretty pictures?

GG

Ah, so that's how they did it. You need the manticore's rockets to build the deathstrike.

Very cool looking but less useful as a scratch building parts kit since you get either 4 manticore rockets or 1 deathstrike and not both.

I'll probably still get one though.

Hellfury wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellfury wrote:I cant wait to not buy any of this.

Oh my word, let me die of shock.

Unwarranted snarkiness? From Scottywan? Even more shocking!

Unwarranted? Is it really?

Don´t like the new LRBT.
DO like the Manticore/Deathstrike.
Meh on the Support Plataform.

That´s all folks? I was waiting a little bit of stuff for the other races.

M.

I will probably buy one of the rocket tanks just so that I can use the rockets to give some of my Deffkoptas bigbomms. I know they'll probably look comically over-sized, but what the hell.

Finally a tank turret that looks good. The manticore looks great but the deathstrike... meh...

Looks like I'm going to have to save up for some of these.

Love the Exterminator and the Manticore!
glad i only scratch built the 1 Manticore.

I'm not terribly impressed with any of these, although it is good to see GW plugging holes in their ranges.

Whilst there is nothing overwhelming about the re-cut russ, I can't say there was much wrong with the origional so adding the different weapon load outs to the "new" kit is a bonus.

Pask looks awful, but this may be the dodgy paintjob, for me the highlighting is a bit overdone.

Something just isn't selling the Manticore/Deathstrike to me, I'm not sure if the Deathstrike missile is big enough and the smaller rockets/fuel tanks on the sides just look like they were added on as an after thought. I also prefer the FW Manticore, but the new one may grow on me.

The Eldar stuff is ok, it is certainly good to see the filthy pointy eared xeno's get some loving but when are the orks going to get updated Wartraks, buggies and Skorchas? When are CSM going to get a plastic dreadnought, and surely the IG need updated rough riders! These are all desperately needed, not yet another flavour of Leman Russ with a slightly different shaped barrel.

Forget the Manticore (which is totally sweet, really), I love the Deathstrike! Even that "Sup dawg" guy would love it, what with the rocket having rockets and all that.

I really like the manticore.

I prefer the old aesthetic of the previous fireprism.

If I had 50 bucks just lying around I would pick up that Manticore just for the terrain building options. All those rockets would great on top of a tower, and a blown up tank always look sweet on the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also like to add that the fire prism looks very frail and deadly, just an eldar vehicle should.

generalgrog wrote:I get red x's here, can someone post the pics on dakka, so us firewall challenged folks can see the pretty pictures?

GG

et voila for the work blocked !

Mmmm... shiny - except the eldar platform, that looks rubbish.

Did I see in another thread that all the tank parts come on a single kit now?

crap... that manticore is ridiculously awesome... crap...

Yeah still not a fan at all of the Fire Prism, and serious wtf for the heavy Platform?! When someone made the master why did no one smack the ever living crud out of the modeler? #1 It looks terrible... no seriously.. terrible. #2 it doesn't even work with 5th Edition rules. The unit is 2 guardians and the gun, so now if a blast lands on the gun you just took two hits instead of one. Grats on making a bad unit worse.

I think the platform looks pretty good myself.

GG

The Fire Prism looks like the cranky car outfitted with a uprooted lampost.

The Russ I like it...I always have liked the look of Imperial Guard tanks the Manticore/Deathstrike and Russ get a massive thumbs up and finally a Vanquisher but I would have swapped the Hellhammer/Eradicator design for a possible hull mounted "Tank Destroyer" design.

Not bad....but I do miss tanks at the £25.00 price tag...but thats GW price hike...

But I agree with Silverquine there are other things but tanks and Space Marines CSM get no love.....And we have been waiting for a Buggy/Scorcha for Orks and updated Rough Riders that dont involve castrating your wallet.

I like the Manticore, though the Deathstrike is Meh. A big thumbs down for GW changing the Deathstrike missile to incorporate the Manticore rockets (and presumably force you to buy another Manticore/Deathstrike instead of letting you magnetize the model to swap the payload out).

The re-cut LR looks good but again they appeared to take pains to make it so you can't swap out the main guns. Of course we will do that with magnets anyway.

HAHAHHA eldar cannon is the suck.


so now you get to remove a crewman when the gun blows up unless you have an extra model to replace it? since the crewman doesnt die with the gun sometimes...

Designer: "Great! I'm finally done with this model, and it can be built as either Manticore or Deathstrike. Go Me!"
Bean Counter: "Nope. Go redesign that rocket. Appearently our customers have figured out how to use little polarized stones to make parts interchangeable. They might only buy one kit instead of two."
Designer: "Gasp! No Ways! Oh Noez my job is in danger! Well I guess I could make the manticore rockets part of the big rocket so they could only build one or the other."
Bean counter: "Good idea. Just make sure it would look fugly if they left those rockets off."

Nothing for Tau so no money leaves my pocket = happy bank account.

I fething hate that Manticore. That is an idiotic design, and I hope whoever did it gets slapped with a carp.

The Deathstrike I'm ambivalent towards. I can see why it has the Manticore's rockets on the sides(rockets carrying rockets that carry rockets!)--but I'd really they rather just have done one gigantic ICBM styled rocket.

Pask is cool, but I'm doing an army where -everyone- is wearing respirators. So he gets left out in favor of FW's tank commanders. Sorry Pask.

Eldar I could care less about, since I don't play them--but I do like the new Fire Prism.

I like the support weapons, shame they won't sell though.

Hmmm that Manticore/Deathstrike model makes me want to make a Pulsa Rokkit

Kanluwen wrote:I fething hate that Manticore. That is an idiotic design, and I hope whoever did it gets slapped with a carp.

The Deathstrike I'm ambivalent towards. I can see why it has the Manticore's rockets on the sides(rockets carrying rockets that carry rockets!)--but I'd really they rather just have done one gigantic ICBM styled rocket.

Pask is cool, but I'm doing an army where -everyone- is wearing respirators. So he gets left out in favor of FW's tank commanders. Sorry Pask.

Eldar I could care less about, since I don't play them--but I do like the new Fire Prism.

That was amazing. I think you disagreed with every preceding opinion. Well, takes all sorts, I suppose.

I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me. I much prefer them being mounted on a turret ala Forge World's design.

And just think--if they'd done Forge World's design in plastic we'd also have the fething Hydras

I quite like all the new plastic tank kits and the Eldar support platform too. I may use a plastic stand-in for Pask though and save about $10 on that one.

Check out the What's New Today about Spearhead with design notes and sketches from Jes Goodwin. Always cool to see a bit of Goodwin's sketches and design process.

This just screams for Orkish Know-How and modifications.

I'm more impressed with the Manticore than I expected to be from the White Dwarf cover pic a while back. I think the Deathstrike looks goofy, but considering I'd never use one, I won't complain about it too much.

I think the LRBT looks fine - without doing a major redesign of the model, I just don't know how much they could do to improve it. While I prefer FW's Ryza pattern Vanquisher turret, I prefer this Vanquisher turret to whatever the other pattern is - it's not completely over the top. Good stuff.

I don't get it. How can they call this a game supplement if it's only for 2 armies? Not exactly game changing if you ask me.

I know, I know; there's going to be some new rule or something for everyone like in the missions books but how about a little model love for everbody?

That deathstrike missile looks a bit too small for my taste...

These are the "Spearhead" releases.

Not the rules.

Kronk = I'm thinking either Pulsa rokkit or grot bomb launcher.

So Spearhead is only for IG and Eldar? Seems like a dumb marketing move to leave out 85% of their market. Even apocalyse had command sprues for the different armies.

I want a new toy to buy but if they won't give it to me, I'll just keep my money.

agnosto wrote:So Spearhead is only for IG and Eldar? Seems like a dumb marketing move to leave out 85% of their market. Even apocalyse had command sprues for the different armies.

I want a new toy to buy but if they won't give it to me, I'll just keep my money.

No no no.
The releases are only IG and Eldar ones. They're releasing new tanks--of which pretty much every other army already has theirs filled out.

The Ork Deff Dreds and Killa Kans were also part of the Spearhead releases, as was the Basilisk.

However, the rules themselves that are coming out in White Dwarf will incorporate all armies.

And just to be nitpicky:
Apocalypse didn't have "command sprues for the different armies".

Everything is on the sprue they're rereleasing now.

I doubt it's written anywhere that you HAVE to put the side rockets on the deathstrike. Just do it without them and add a little bit of plasticard to make wings and there yar.

Not a fan of the Eldar riding the support weapon AT ALL. But the new guns look cool. And I do have Eldar Support weapons in my army, and I have used them at many tournaments over the years in which I have taken best general or best overall.

The cost is currently the same as you pay for the metal so I might get some, depends on how the D Cannon looks. I have 6 Deathspinners and 3 Vibrocannons already.

death strike = imperial shokk attack gun. I'll be picking up one of the new Leman Russes too.

A mixed bag for sure. I really do wish that they'd given the Leman Russ some suspension.

The four rocket one is nice, apart from the dumb searchlight position.

Kanluwen wrote:
The releases are only IG and Eldar ones. They're releasing new tanks--of which pretty much every other army already has theirs filled out.

The Ork Deff Dreds and Killa Kans were also part of the Spearhead releases, as was the Basilisk.

However, the rules themselves that are coming out in White Dwarf will incorporate all armies.

And just to be nitpicky:
Apocalypse didn't have "command sprues for the different armies".

Everything is on the sprue they're rereleasing now.

And I'm telling you that I want a new toy.

If it wasn't apoc; where'd the command sprues come from? Ya know, this thing: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1130001&prodId=prod770023a that says "Apocalypse" in the description.

I'm not interested in fielding 10 hammerheads. I want more variety; why do IG, Orks and Eldar get the love?

agnosto wrote:So Spearhead is only for IG and Eldar? Seems like a dumb marketing move to leave out 85% of their market. Even apocalyse had command sprues for the different armies.

I want a new toy to buy but if they won't give it to me, I'll just keep my money.

I weep. Models up for preorder do not an expansion make.

UltraPrime wrote:

agnosto wrote:So Spearhead is only for IG and Eldar? Seems like a dumb marketing move to leave out 85% of their market. Even apocalyse had command sprues for the different armies.

I want a new toy to buy but if they won't give it to me, I'll just keep my money.

I weep. Models up for preorder do not an expansion make.

Yeah, they expanded two armies....woop woop.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
The releases are only IG and Eldar ones. They're releasing new tanks--of which pretty much every other army already has theirs filled out.

The Ork Deff Dreds and Killa Kans were also part of the Spearhead releases, as was the Basilisk.

However, the rules themselves that are coming out in White Dwarf will incorporate all armies.

And just to be nitpicky:
Apocalypse didn't have "command sprues for the different armies".

Everything is on the sprue they're rereleasing now.

And I'm telling you that I want a new toy.

If it wasn't apoc; where'd the command sprues come from? Ya know, this thing: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1130001&prodId=prod770023a that says "Apocalypse" in the description.

I'm not interested in fielding 10 hammerheads. I want more variety; why do IG, Orks and Eldar get the love?

You misunderstood the comment.
I said that there wasn't a "command sprue for the different armies", it was all on a single sprue that was released in every Apocalypse formation box.

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

BrassScorpion wrote:I quite like all the new plastic tank kits and the Eldar support platform too. I may use a plastic stand-in for Pask though and save about $10 on that one.

Check out the What's New Today about Spearhead with design notes and sketches from Jes Goodwin. Always cool to see a bit of Goodwin's sketches and design process.

And cue a new scenery kit rumour.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg

How did I miss that!

I guess it'll be a shield generator kit?

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Kanluwen wrote:How did I miss that!

I guess it'll be a shield generator kit?

No, silly, it's an... Imperial Skull Wall!

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Uh, who said anything about the expansion not being official?

They're making it available free online--in addition to printing it in WD. That's as easily accessible as I can imagine.

God, I pity the poor painter that had to paint 3 vindicators in a row.

I'm not too sure what GW hopes to achieve with this expansion. Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them. If spearhead truly affects only vehicles or allows vehicle-only battles and that's it. I can see it being a waste of time.

I mean, great in the Heavy-metal studio where you've got buckets of tanks at no cost. But in real-life, where most gamers have 1 or 2 2500 point armies containing anything from 1-6 tanks at most; nah.

The cost (of the Eldar Support Platform) is currently the same as you pay for the metal so I might get some,

Actually, the Eldar Heavy Support Platforms are $33 US, so the new plastic one is lower in price.

Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them

Anyone who's ever attended an open mass tank battle event in a GW store knows that there are plenty of players and collectors out there with large numbers of vehicles. It's not for everyone, but there are plenty of "treadheads" out there. The models are expensive, but many of the GW bundle deals have vehicles in them, allowing collectors to acquire vehicles in quantity over time without paying list price. Then there are deals and trades with friends, flea markets, eBay and those wonderful Apocalypse Bundle Deals GW had a couple years ago. Those factors combined caused my own vehicle collection to grow considerably in the past few years.

I pity the poor painter that had to paint 3 vindicators in a row.

I've done it twice already for two different armies and am planning a third. I know other people who've painted Linebreaker Squadrons as well. It's rather fun.

And to those of you repeatedly trying to explain that Spearhead is an expansion rules set that is good for ALL 40K armies, not just the ones getting these few new models, good luck because it seems to be a losing battle.

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Uh, who said anything about the expansion not being official?

They're making it available free online--in addition to printing it in WD. That's as easily accessible as I can imagine.

It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

I know this expansion will just have some scenarios or something for vehicle only battles but Tau only have 2 vehicles (other than the devilfish which I don't imagine would be all that useful in a tank battle) what's the point? OK, it's 3 if you count Skyrays but all those seeker missiles are worthless if you only get the 'ray's markerlight to fire them with.

1-6 tanks at most in a 2500 army? Are you still playing 4th ed? My 1500pts guard army has more than that.

If the scenery picture is related to spearhead, it seems like infantry will play a role, maybe they just need to be mounted

agnosto wrote:
It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

So you've seen the rules for the Expansion and/or the new Eldar Tank? Unless there's some arbitrary rule stating that it requires opponent's consent, then I'll bet you don't need it to field the new vehicle.

I think the Manticore is really awesome looking. Deathstrike is ok, doesn't blow me away. The rest seems fine. Not sure what's so horrible about the weapon platform?

Platuan4th wrote:

agnosto wrote:
It's like playing with FW stuff; you have to have a big long conversation with your opponent and convince as to why they should play you with that particular model (rule). mendokusai-ne? (tedious).

So you've seen the rules for the Expansion and/or the new Eldar Tank? Unless there's some arbitrary rule stating that it requires opponent's consent, then you don't need it.

Not in the least. I'm actually assuming that most, if not all, of the tanks being released are already existing in one form or another. I just don't see the expansion as a reason for me to run out and buy more of something I already own for my Tau.

As someone already mentioned, it's more for "treadheads" that love massive tank fights whereas I like to play 2-3k point battles and that's 98% of the gaming that happens in my area (except for the occasional apoc game).

I don't need to own more hammerheads because I can only ever field 3 in a regular game (which I never do because I love my broadsides) and they're kind of boring to paint.

I readily admit that I'm a fickle consumer. They need to entice me with a new toy if they want me to spend my money because I already own enough of my old toys.

BrassScorpion wrote:

The cost (of the Eldar Support Platform) is currently the same as you pay for the metal so I might get some,

Actually, the Eldar Heavy Support Platforms are $33 US, so the new plastic one is lower in price.

Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them

Anyone who's ever attended an open mass tank battle event in a GW stores knows that there are plenty of players and collectors out there with large numbers of vehicles. It's not for everyone, but there are plenty of "treadheads" out there.

To those of you repeatedly trying to explain that Spearhead is an expansion rules set that is good for ALL 40K armies, not just the ones getting these few new models, good luck because it seems to be a losing battle.

It really does seem that trying to explain it is difficult.

Okay, here's how I'm reading into it:

Bolding for emphasis.
Spearhead is not just focused upon massive tank v. tank battles. Spearhead is being touted as a way to play scenarios like the Ardennes Forest and Hurtgen during WWII. Where massive tank forces engaged static infantry positions, and infantry hunted tanks with man portable weaponry amongst the trees. Will we see things akin to Kursk, with huge masses of tanks engaging tanks and infantry cowering on the field taking potshots at each other? I'd be surprised if we didn't, but still. This isn't just going to be huge swathes of tanks duking it out.

It's also worth noting that "armored vehicles" does not necessarily exclusively mean tanks. We could see Sentinels stalking Ork looted tanks in the midst of bombed out Imperial cities, or Killa Kans/Deff Dreds doing the same.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But I really doubt it's just going to be tanks v. tanks when "spearheads" imply that it's going to be breakout/breakthrough styled scenarios, where there's a fixed point you're trying to get through.

Don't they already have scenarios like that in the new missions book?

Possibly. I don't know, since I haven't looked through Battle Missions in detail.

Still, I see no problem with having similar available for free online, do you?

Not so much, Battlemissions does not "break" the normal Force Org. Chart restrictions on vehicles to the degree that will be the case with Spearhead.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!

I still don't want to buy any more boring, old hammerheads though.

So use Skyrays

Skyrays without pathfinder support are worthless; not enough markerlights to fire their missiles. Come to think of it, they're pretty worthless with pathfinders anyway.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg

Well,they really get out of their way to keep people from filing off those damn skulls....

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...







Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Illumini wrote:1-6 tanks at most in a 2500 army? Are you still playing 4th ed? My 1500pts guard army has more than that.

If the scenery picture is related to spearhead, it seems like infantry will play a role, maybe they just need to be mounted

Obviously an army who's entire specialism is vehicles is a special case when I'm taking 'an average'.

It's hard to define an average gamer, because I think the thing about Warhammer in general is that you don't just stagnate as a player, you'll always want to buy more stuff. Therefore the size of your armies increases relative to the years you've been in the game. But I'd guess that most people start to get bored of an army at around 2500-4000 points and if you're playing an army like Space Marines or Eldar a large amount of your points is made from elite infantry, not tanks. I've got 4000 points of CSM with 1 LR, 1 Pred, 3 Rhinos and a Vindi; also a Stormlord for apoc. I'd say my collection is quite large, at 3 ~3000pt armies.

However, if there are missions as described below I think we will get some interesting battles out of Spearhead. I mean, look at Nids, somewhere in these rules there must be a hole for non-tank armies, hopefully those missions will be good fun.

I always thought death strike missiles are like these:

Granted they dont need to be THAT big , but atm its really tiny ( in the missile to tank ratio ). And we all know in toy soldiers, tiny weapons are bad xD

The Green Git wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...







Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Of those 3, the Gopher is fine to me. The rockets aren't sitting there exposed like they are on the SA-6 or the Hawk launcher.

Now I need to figure out how to magnetize one tank to be able to use both launchers...

Kanluwen wrote:

The Green Git wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I just dislike the Manticore. The rockets riding on a rack is dumb to me.

Guess someone forgot to tell these guys...

Frankly, it's the TURRET design that dumb. Of course we are dealing with a make believe universe of genetically altered supermen and sentient space fungus, so I don't judge.

Of those 3, the Gopher is fine to me. The rockets aren't sitting there exposed like they are on the SA-6 or the Hawk launcher.

They're just as exposed on the FW version though.

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

Really like the manticore, but 'meh' on the deathstrike design, the Fire Prism has grown on me quite a bit, and the LRBT looks as good as it ever did.

Howver, that Pask model is awful. What's up with his left hand? Did it get deformed in the mould?

Gargskull wrote:

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

The gopher's a surface to air weapon system so it needs to be able to "track" its target.

agnosto wrote:

Gargskull wrote:

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

The gopher's a surface to air weapon system so it needs to be able to "track" its target.

Fair enough but the manticore's rockets look a bit too fat for that.

agnosto wrote:

Gargskull wrote:

Personally I think the turret makes less sense, tanks can pivot on the spot, why does it also need to be able to rotate it's long range rockets.

The gopher's a surface to air weapon system so it needs to be able to "track" its target.

Which one is the gopher?
<- they are cute

I always thought Deathstrikes would be bigger... still. I needed some cheaper Manticores and I like the rack design

On a quick side note... anyone know who/what that is next to the burning Chimera on the Terminator sized base? (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg)

The base is too small for a heavy weapon team. Zooming in it looks like two people next to some sort of scanner?

All those tank pics make me nostalgic about my youth, building model tanks and WW2 models...

endtransmission wrote:I always thought Deathstrikes would be bigger... still. I needed some cheaper Manticores and I like the rack design

On a quick side note... anyone know who/what that is next to the burning Chimera on the Terminator sized base? (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120824a_2010-05-11_1_873x627.jpg)

The base is too small for a heavy weapon team. Zooming in it looks like two people next to some sort of scanner?

It looks like the black figure with chain sword is prodding a (heretic? )

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

As for why there's no Tau or Space Marine or whatnot stuff?
*shrug* Maybe they just had nothing to release.

This the point of my whinging.

I would love a new tank for my tau, I would probably run right out and buy 2 of them. Of course without the expansion being official, I'd never be able to use them outside of some special scenario.

nevermind.

*sigh*

Uh, who said anything about the expansion not being official?

They're making it available free online--in addition to printing it in WD. That's as easily accessible as I can imagine.

I wish it was that easy, but it looks they're going to make you buy a WD for the Spearhead rules then have the Formation rules available on the website. You think GDub will throw away a golden opportunity to sell some WD's?

Not only is it Grot-squishingly exciting, getting your hands on the rules for Spearhead couldn't be easier as June's issue of White Dwarf will contain all of the rules for Spearhead games. It's going to be a bumper issue, which means you should make sure you get your hands on it straight away - I'm reliably informed that it will be on shelves and on sale here at www.games-workshop.com from the 29th May so there are no excuses for missing out. Straight after that on the 01st of June we will be publishing the accompanying Spearhead formation rules here on www.games-workshop.com.

agnosto wrote:Nothing for Tau so no money leaves my pocket = happy bank account.

You get the command upgrade sprue. Of course there is absolutely no price set on it. It looks nice for mods but nothing exquisite.

rogueeyes wrote:

agnosto wrote:Nothing for Tau so no money leaves my pocket = happy bank account.

You get the command upgrade sprue. Of course there is absolutely no price set on it. It looks nice for mods but nothing exquisite.

It's £4; http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490603&prodId=prod770023a

The US pricing on what used to be called the Apocalypse Command Sprue is not yet posted. Oversights like that seem to occur with some frequency since the new website was launched, but it will be fixed in time.

Does the wavespinner have actual 40k rules? Or is it a variant weapon option for the falcon. I'm confused here...

Nightspinner rules will be in the June White Dwarf with the other Spearhead articles and some items will be free on the GW website. Once again, here's the GW Spearhead announcement from weeks ago that answers most of the questions being asked here.

BrassScorpion wrote:The US pricing on what used to be called the Apocalypse Command Sprue is not yet posted. Oversights like that seem to occur with some frequency since the new website was launched, but it will be fixed in time.

Ah, I see. Well halve the price of the grots plastic set, round up and that should be about it.

Looks awesome! Finally I can get a Deathstrike without hours of conversion work. Manti looks ok, but I prefer the FW model. But I'm not gona double the price just for anaesthetics. Not too keen on the new LR variants, prefer the FW vanquisher and I don't like the rules for the exterminator. But I really want the deathstrike! Theres so many scenarios you could play for it, e.g stop the deathstrikes before they fire with some modifiers to make that harder. Manticore is an awesome weapon, up to 3 s10 5" blast shots anyone?

Anyway,
I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!

I think Pask is actually a Tau. His face is Tau like and he's only got three fingers.

Not really interested in this lot and the photo of the Spearhead battle puts me off the game. You literally can't move anything on the board without it bumping into another tank. Is that how tank battles are fought?!

Flashman wrote:Not really interested in this lot and the photo of the Spearhead battle puts me off the game. You literally can't move anything on the board without it bumping into another tank. Is that how tank battles are fought?!

The Planetstrike pictures and such were also loaded, it's just a promotion picture. Even if you played with that many tanks, a lot would be destoyed after a turn or two with that much firepower.

So the Deathstrike is part of the Manticore kit, right? I would've been very surprised if the Deathstrike got it's own kit, I've never seen an IG player at my LGS field one.

They look pretty all-right, I guess. New weapons options for existing tank chassis is nothing to get excited about, but that's probably because I don't play IG yet.

ArbitorIan wrote:That deathstrike missile looks a bit too small for my taste...

It's actually massive considering it's the size of a modern day nuke. But still looks cool regardless of realism.

Also, they come with both Catachan and Cadian crewmen, if anyone cares. At least the Manticore/Deathstrike does.

Although I'm not playing IG, I do love the Manticore design. And I think Jes Goodwin and Tom Walton did a good job on the Fire Prism/Night Spinner. I wonder/hope all new Eldar are going to be moving this direction in the future.

All look nice but I'm happiest that the Manticore design doesn't make me want to replace my Forge World Manticore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

felixthecat345 wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:That deathstrike missile looks a bit too small for my taste...

It's actually massive considering it's the size of a modern day nuke. But still looks cool regardless of realism.

Excellent point.

Orangecoke wrote:Deathstrike is ok, doesn't blow me away.

It's probably still counting down. . .

The Manticore and Deathstrike remind me of GI Joe Tanks from the 80's. It would probably be less of an issue if the hatch was closed. I like the Fire Prism, when I get around to messing with my Eldar again I may pick up one or two. Support platforms seem a bit silly, it looks like an action figure playset with the crewman sitting in it like that. I realize I'm saying these toys look like other toys but something about them just truck as being more toy-like than has been typical from GW. I think it may be a trend, have to see what the next releases look like.

Deathstrike looks like a Bloodhound Missile.



Airfix here I come.

I'm always saddened when they rerelease a chimera or russ kit and don't totally revamp the design. It's ridiculous, kinda stupid looking, and utterly non functional.

That said, I do like the manticore. I wish the deathstrike wasn't a giant ridiculous trashcan missile but it could be worse. The support weapon platform is awful though. They couldn't even give the guardian standing free a new pose for his gun, he's just gotta hold it out strongman style.

Mr. Burning wrote:Deathstrike looks like a Bloodhound Missile.



Airfix here I come.

Good find. GW did a pretty exact copy actually.

I'm always saddened when they rerelease a chimera or russ kit and don't totally revamp the design. It's ridiculous, kinda stupid looking, and utterly non functional.

Same here but the last time I posted anything like what you just said about the Russ, I got swamped by people saying they love the 20 year old Leman Russ kit and that there's absolutely no need to replace it. So, eventhough I can't easily understand how it's possible, people do exist who actually like (not only tolerate, but actually like) the Chimera and the Leman Russ designs.

feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes.

Sorry, been a while since I've been this giddy over a release. And they are also re-releasing the command frame? Again, feth yes.

Dear god I fear when my ork buddies get their hands on the new IG tanks.

BrookM wrote:feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes. feth yes.

Sorry, been a while since I've been this giddy over a release. And they are also re-releasing the command frame? Again, feth yes.

I know, right?!

Just when I thought the guard army was finished (did the last Demolisher today) guess I might do a 3rd tank company as the vanquisher turret is rather nice. Did manage to sneak a look at both the russ and prism in the flesh and they look like they'll be nice and easy to assemble nicely- and of course LOTS of spare parts which is always nice

So... did they actually change the look of the Lemon Russ? because I cant find anything that is really differnt...

Well I really like the look of the New Eldar tanks, not the weapon its self but the new sleek look is damn sexy.

Well the good news from this release is I can now make shiny lamp posts for my terrain.....but seriously I am way underwhelmed by this release, and fairly dissapointed as a whole that they cant seem to release the variety of miniatures that makes this game so unique.......Good on them finally releasing something for another race besides marines and guard but thats about it.....

I think Pask looks tight, actually, I like all of the models a lot. This is a very cool release, I will probably be picking up several of these kits.

I think the manticore design is excellent, A+ to GW for that one, the deathstrike is ok, not amazing... i always imagined it would be bigger...

Orks gonna love those lauching platforms

funksobeefy wrote:So... did they actually change the look of the Lemon Russ? because I cant find anything that is really differnt...

Well I really like the look of the New Eldar tanks, not the weapon its self but the new sleek look is damn sexy.

If it is similar to the chimera, they kept the overall shape and changed a little bit of the interior(so they could apply the new kits easily) and changed some minor details like the design of the plates and other minor details. They also fit in a bunch of the new options(LRBT can make all the main ones like executioner, exterminator, plasma sponsons, Vanquisher, etc). Oh and the turret looks slightly redesigned.

Love the fact that they updated the Leman Russ tank. Hate the fact that it has gone up in price also.

If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

I really can't see what everyone sees so cool about Manticore. I think that the rocket "supporter" looks ankward.
I do, however, like the Deathstrike.
The LRBTs are a nice addition, but my friend noticed that the front lascannon has changed into SM one. Anyone else noticed it? (Didn't read the whole thread though).
And IMO, the new Fire Prism is awesome, and Night Spinner is pretty good, and Support Weapon is just cool.

ShumaGorath wrote:I'm always saddened when they rerelease a chimera or russ kit and don't totally revamp the design. It's ridiculous, kinda stupid looking, and utterly non functional.

funksobeefy wrote:So... did they actually change the look of the Lemon Russ? because I cant find anything that is really differnt...

No, they didn't change the "look". But the fact that you can now make a Vanquisher, Eradicator, Exterminator and Battle Tank all out of the same kit is, in my mind, greater than revamping the look.

Loving the Manticore a lot. The first time I saw it, I was thinking "meh", but in the last couple hours its grown a lot on me. The Deathstrike..."meh". I think it's rocket is a bit much (didn't need all those side rockets), I can't believe some people think it looks too small, it's already about the size of a Scud, which is about what you'd expect of it, at least from anything mounted on a Chimera chassis.

Fire prism is awesome, much sleeker, and the weapon looks much more "Eldar-y" rather than just a fat crystal stuck to the side of the hull.

Support weapons are "meh", too expensive for most people, I'm not understanding what GW was thinking in their pricing on those, they're a noncompetitive unit that costs 90-150pts and $75 a unit, putting it definitely in Forgeworld's price bracket.

The leman russ, for what it is, is an improvement. The demolisher killed any hopes of a true overhaul like many had hoped, away from the 1994 model and a redo much like the Rhino got, but it is a huge improvement and the Vanquisher turret came out looking far better than how I envisioned it from the Codex representation.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Those are awesome, but the prices (with tax and shipping) if you DON'T live in Germany are frightening!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430057&prodId=prod770019a

Duncan, who built that and where do I find directions to make my own or buy it?

Manticore looks pretty good and the deathstrike looks like I figured it would. I have to say I like it more than the FW version. I never liked that turret on the FW version. It seem to fit the hydra, but not much else in my mind.

LRBT making the new variants and having all the options means I need to buy a couple.

Well, I like the new LRBT kit. I love the Manticore. But I have a sad over the lack of Griffon.

Awesome stuff. Definitely want to pick up the IG artillery.

Don't really like the Manticore, although I'll be getting one to make a Vortex missile for my Reaver. The new LR is kinda ok, may get one to add to the 6 Classic ones in my fleet, but I absolutely despise the new Fire Prism. The Support Platform is quite nice though.

Valk

Sarge wrote:Duncan, who built that and where do I find directions to make my own or buy it?

Manticore looks pretty good and the deathstrike looks like I figured it would. I have to say I like it more than the FW version. I never liked that turret on the FW version. It seem to fit the hydra, but not much else in my mind.

LRBT making the new variants and having all the options means I need to buy a couple.

Its from heavy-support.com

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Leave it to the Germans to build one sexy tank.

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTIIIIIIIIIIICOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!

Looks absolutely delicious. I KNEW I should have started fantasy first (I just got done selling my 1500 or so points of guard I had)

oh, now this is awesome, I've been holding off on buying Leman Russ's so that they'd match my Plasma Demolisher, (It's actuall name escapes me at the moment,)

Also the mandicore just rocketed up my wishlist, perhaps i should start an armoured company.....

Scottywan82 wrote:

Whoa!

That's awesome. I mean... I have three Manticores already but... wow. I really like that.

I'm still not sure on the the Manticore/Deathstrike kit, even as a guard player. Its going to take a lot of magnet work to get both kits out of the one, and I'm still wondering if I like the new Manticore look, but that's probably because WWII Russian armour isn't my strong suit. The Deathstrike looks ginormous in the codex, and here it looks underwhelming....The Russ is cool, but you'll have to magnetize the top half of the turret if you wanna switch out guns, why didn't they make it like the Demolisher Kit!?! I do like the Support Weapon, the Eldar sitting on the gun is cool. As for Pask, I love the model. I think 'eavy Metal Team can't paint realistically to save their lives anymore (see Beastmen, Orcs and Goblins), but I do like the model. Dunno if I can shell out $10 for one metal dude that I don't usually run in my army though....
Lets just hope the rules and articles in June's White Dwarf make this all the better...who are we kidding?
Granesh

i really like the deathstrike missile launcher! i'm totally going to find a way to get one.


but has anyone noticed the lack of that "free model" tanks gave you? you use to get the tank crew character that could be put on a stand and i thought was cool to have as an adviser of some sorts. now they aren't there and can only be bought on the bitz section of the website. am i wrong about this?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

OMG. That is one extremly sexy tank. This blows the new russ out of the water. Damn you, this is going to cost me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sageheart wrote:i really like the deathstrike missile launcher! i'm totally going to find a way to get one.


but has anyone noticed the lack of that "free model" tanks gave you? you use to get the tank crew character that could be put on a stand and i thought was cool to have as an adviser of some sorts. now they aren't there and can only be bought on the bitz section of the website. am i wrong about this?

The free guy is for the basilisk I believe. I can understand why they would not include him on a close topped tank. He is still in the basilisk box, right?

Illumini wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

OMG. That is one extremly sexy tank. This blows the new russ out of the water. Damn you, this is going to cost me

Yeah, a tank that actually looks like a functioning tank and not a crotch cannon for the guy in the turret.



This alone would drive parents to not buy IG for little Johnny.... I mean, c'mon, where does the ammo go?

puma713 wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:Deathstrike is ok, doesn't blow me away.

It's probably still counting down. . .

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

More guard love, wonderful.

The deathstrikes look decent, not enough to have me start my holding the line guard army yet though.

Support weapon seems overpriced, pask is a $5 model... not even a whole body, just a bust with a hat and a stupid look.

The current metal Eldar Support Weapon is $33 US, so the new one is a better deal than the older one and to me at least, better looking and certainly easier to assemble and use in cool conversions.

Now you can play Epic at 32 mm!!!

If that Manticore launches that rocket, that driver is toast.

Where's the ork vehicles we heard about?

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Whoa!

That's awesome. I mean... I have three Manticores already but... wow. I really like that.

Turn left, H.B.M.C., turn lef-nooooooo!

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Where can I buy a few of those? It looks like it has some GW parts even, like the cannon? Is it a conversion?

"Aren't you a little short for a storm trooper?" - Princess Leia

Therion wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Where can I buy a few of those? It looks like it has some GW parts even, like the cannon? Is it a conversion?

It looks like a Forge World Vanquisher turret on top of a Leman Russ hull with Chimera sideskirts along the side.

http://www.heavy-support.com/

You can buy it at the above link and it costs 54,50 Euros

It´s full resin with all options:

http://www.heavy-support.com/

I will provide more pictures and size comparisons tomorrow.

I really like all the new kits, including the support platform.

I'm really curious if there are going to be new rules for it, in the upcoming WD.

I'll have to nab a few FP/NS first. Getting rid of that metal block, is well worth the price.

agnosto wrote:

Illumini wrote:y sexy tank. This blows the new russ out of the water. Damn you, this is going to cost me

Yeah, a tank that actually looks like a functioning tank and not a crotch cannon for the guy in the turret.



This alone would drive parents to not buy IG for little Johnny.... I mean, c'mon, where does the ammo go?

Dammit, now all I can think about is all the IG tanks being powered by a mans Whoo Hoo.

You runied my day.

How would one runy a day?

I don't think he urinated on your day, lol.

----------

Yeah, the new manticore kit is awesome.

Karon wrote:How would one runy a day?

I don't think he urinated on your day, lol.

...........What?

Happygrunt wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Illumini wrote:y sexy tank. This blows the new russ out of the water. Damn you, this is going to cost me

Yeah, a tank that actually looks like a functioning tank and not a crotch cannon for the guy in the turret.



This alone would drive parents to not buy IG for little Johnny.... I mean, c'mon, where does the ammo go?

Dammit, now all I can think about is all the IG tanks being powered by a mans Whoo Hoo.

You runied my day.

What makes it worse is the driver's showing you his, "O" face (ala office space).

I don't see how anyone can't like the "new" LRBT if they had no problems with the old one. It's got a slightly longer turret and more options. Looks pretty good though - I'm a big fan of the new Manticore as well. Fire Prism looks alright; I couldn't care less about the support platform. Deathstrike's missile is a little small for a doomsday weapon.

Support weapons leave me underwhelmed. Really, a big shield? On an Eldar device?

The Russ kit is "about time", but at least it's out.

I kinda like the Manticore, although the Deathstrike missile and launcher are considerably undersized from what I was expecting.

The support platform is horrible - platform much too small, gunshield far too big and flat. Artless, really.

I guess I'll "need" a Manticore, and convert a Deathstrike...

Happygrunt wrote:

Karon wrote:How would one runy a day?

I don't think he urinated on your day, lol.

...........What?

You said runied ^.^

Grammar Nazi, sorry.

the deathstrike looks like a toy.

pandaman wrote:the deathstrike looks like a toy.

You do know that these are new releases for the Warhammer 40k game, right?

I thought it was real life.

I'm disappoint that the DS doesn't look like a real, in the flesh ICBM.

Bummer.

pretre wrote:

pandaman wrote:the deathstrike looks like a toy.

You do know that these are new releases for the Warhammer 40k game, right?

wait.... it's A game?!?

Manticore Kit....finally. I was gonna save up for the FW one, but now...woo!

generalgrog wrote:I think the platform looks pretty good myself.

GG

Agreed! I never get where the hate comes from in these kinds of threads.

Fateweaver wrote:I thought it was real life.

I'm disappoint that the DS doesn't look like a real, in the flesh ICBM.

Bummer.

I'm disappointed that it doesn't look like a scale model approximation of one. Instead they went for the giant un-aerodynamic trashcan with rocket boosters look.

I'm kinda let down by the Vanquisher barrel. I actually liked the old FW ones that were longer than the tank itself.

Nerf_IG wrote:I'm kinda let down by the Vanquisher barrel. I actually liked the old FW ones that were longer than the tank itself.

Only bad thing I can really say.

They look dumb now.

And the deathstrike missle isn't large enough.

am i the only one who see that the eldar support weapon has a heart painted on it?

Blitza da warboy wrote:am i the only one who see that the eldar support weapon has a heart painted on it?

Yeah, thats one of the symbols for that craftworld. It's in a chalice.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Blitza da warboy wrote:am i the only one who see that the eldar support weapon has a heart painted on it?

Yeah, thats one of the symbols for that craftworld. It's in a chalice.

ahhh. that makes more sense....

pandaman wrote:the deathstrike looks like a toy.

That's because it's far too short.
____

Karon wrote:And the deathstrike missle isn't large enough.

Exactly. It needs to be extended by about 6", so the length is more proportional to a SCUD-A / R-11 on a JS-3 TEL.

Which would roughly match the Epic model.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

pandaman wrote:the deathstrike looks like a toy.

That's because it's far too short.
____

Karon wrote:And the deathstrike missle isn't large enough.

Exactly. It needs to be extended by about 6", so the length is more proportional to a SCUD-A / R-11 on a JS-3 TEL.

Which would roughly match the Epic model.

The scale of the weapons effect doesn't really match up to that though.

That's because the Death Strike never should have been put into the Codex in the first place. It was an Epic vehicle firing Titan-scale warheads.

Shrinking it down was silly, and the model has a silliness to match.

You're insane, HBMC.

The Deathstrike should be every Guardsman's standard weapon.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Now where have I seen this design before... oh yeah!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Now where have I seen this design before... oh yeah!

Are you insinuating someone stole something from Games Workshop/Forge World--poorly named it the "Mortian" pattern Battletank and then started selling it as a replacement for a GW kit?

Lunacy!

Not at all! Let's just call it... inspired...

I mean, at some angles, it's hard to see any similarities whatsoever, such as:



vs



See. Nothing alike...

ShumaGorath wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Karon wrote:And the deathstrike missle isn't large enough.

Exactly. It needs to be extended by about 6", so the length is more proportional to a SCUD-A / R-11 on a JS-3 TEL.

Which would roughly match the Epic model.

The scale of the weapons effect doesn't really match up to that though.

The rules can be easily fixed in Apoc 2. The model, not so much.

I would gladly pay Apoc-sized points for an appropriately-armed Deathstrike.

Except they won't, given it's in the Codex.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Big problem with it - no rivets!

Or skulls.

Russ kit - Nice to actually see options for once, but not a guard player, so meh.

Deathstrike & co - May have to buy one for parts for orks, but other than that, looks like a great kit.

Pask - What a load of bollocks.

Fire prism - Pure quality, love the model, now they need to start re-doing other things, like jetbikes.

Support wep - Nice concept, not so nice presentation on the model.
Looks a bit thrown together in a rush.



No BA, ork or nid love? :(

A quick preview of the rules, by Bramgaunt:

BramGaunt wrote:Spearhead, and how you play it!

Basically at least, I'm not giving any detail (because I can't, I was just given a short overview)

1st: Pick your Army.

You all know the basic FoC? Can draw it while sleeping? Good. Spearhead uses the same FoC - with two major changes. The first: No minimums. You don't have to field a HQ. You don't need Core Units. The Second: There are apocalypse-datasheet-like Units. You may field as many of those as you want, though you may not duplicate any of them.
So, your army will consist of: 0 - 2 HQ, 0 - 3 Elites, 0-6 Core, 0-3 Fast attack, 0-3 Heavy support, and 0+ "Big Spearhead Units". Appearantly, if you are having a 2000 points battle, you would have to field something. Just pick your choice.

So: You don't need to field anything with a AV at all. It's just that anything with a AV will get some huge boosts.

2nd: Deployment.

Both armys are deployed at the narrow board edges. Ah, Meltaguns for infantry only work like, 12 inches? To bad. It's your fault showing up with infantry for a tank battle. Forward, for the emperor, CHARGE!! (Though, not to far forward, remember, they got meltaguns...)

3rd: Scoring units: In addition to core units, any vehicle or walker and all Spearhead-battlehosts score. Even if immobilized, stunned or shaken and/or stripped of all weapons.

And that's it. Enjoy =)

So, you don't need to have huge units of tanks (or any tanks at all for that matter), but they do get bonusses.

Edit: Some more from Frgt/10:

Frgt/10 wrote:in addition to this;
- spearhead units are either groups of 3 tanks (no more no less) OR groups of 1 superheavy
- the spearhead formations gain different USRs depending on their role; ie: tankhunters for pred annihilators, scout for some fast vehicles, etc
- works similar to apoc formations, with a small points cost for the spearhead formation
- pretty sure superheavies don't get USRs

I intend to buy 3 fire prisms (I've been putting it off due to fear of metal) but I'm almost certain I'll cut the big prism at the base of the gun out. Without that bit, the gun is still long enough, and it should look a lot less silly.

I love that Vanquisher cannon. Hopefully they will be real cheap as individual bits since the tank actually sucks quite a bit, so I can use them to represent regular Battle Tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If you want a better design for the LR check this one:

Big problem with it - no rivets!

The other big problem being a hefty price tag of ~$75.

The fire prism must be the first Jes Goodwin model I've seen that no one likes. And I'm not really sure I get why, it looks a lot better than before without the prissy-ass crystal just kinda stuck on. I like that there's an actual barrel now and that the crystal is integrated into it.

Other than that though, pretty underwhelming release. I like that the rules are free, I wish all the 40k expansions were free seeing as how they're all pretty crap anyway (and this one will probably be no different)...and I like the new Guard stuff...but that's it? Really?

Great, now we have options for the standard Russ, but the price has gone up, and if like me you want the track guard it's now even more expensive.

Anyone looking to bay a guards army, their getting way too expensive.

Nice models though apart from Pask..

Thanks for the rules info, Redemption. That's what I and many others were checking this thread for, only to find nothing but kvetching about the models.

I do wonder if any special allowances are made for 'Nids.

The price is quite adequate for a resin model with ALL options.



As promised a size comparison



The design is btw based more on german and french tanks than on the Macharius, who actually took his ideas from those tanks.
Skulls and imperial symbols are not there for a reason, This way the there is no hassle with GW legal dept. And they can easily be added by getting parts from you bist box or getting some symbol sprues from FW

It does have rivets, but in a realistical kind of way





BTW he is already working on other tank designs

Whoa, crazy! Cool looking stuff.

Did I mention I got one just because it looks so cool? Normally I just play Elysians and Tau, but this baby had to be mine.

That price tag is mad heavy though. And it's currently missing a few option I would like to see. Perhaps things like an E-radiatior Cannon and a Punishing Gun? It's a good size tank though. Beefier than the LRBT by far which is cool.

Well, for continental europeans the price is quite good for a full resin modell, but UK and US could be a little hefty. Now you feel the pain our LGS feel. ,)

Yes, finally someone is making an assault gun/tank destroyer

It does have a punishing gun, look at the twin-multibarreled gun.

Illumini wrote:Yes, finally someone is making an assault gun/tank destroyer

It does have a punishing gun, look at the twin-multibarreled gun.

Where is that in the resin picture on his site? I didn't actually see it.

Thanks for the pics. The website shots make it look smooth and lacking in detail - looks much better in yours.

I like!

Scottywan82 wrote:

Illumini wrote:Yes, finally someone is making an assault gun/tank destroyer

It does have a punishing gun, look at the twin-multibarreled gun.

Where is that in the resin picture on his site? I didn't actually see it.

Yeah, can't see it in the resin pictures. I drew the conclusion from the computer images he posted in this thread.

I've ordered one now, so I'll tell you if it is included when I recieve it (or Duncan can just tell us )

They are all included as you can see also on the web page pictures for the tank.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:They are all included as you can see also on the web page pictures for the tank.

I didn't actually see it on the web picture.

After some more thought, not a big fan of the deathstrike. Just gonna go with the 4 rockets. But, I do like the look of the deathstrike alone, I think that with the launcher might make for some good terrain or objective models.

For eldar I really like the fire prism, but I think I would also cut off the long barrel and just have the big crystal for the end of the gun and make it old school, just plastic. Really not a fan of the night spinner though, just looks short and stubby and like the turret looks more like a mini fighter pod that landed on top of a falcon. The support weapons look fine to me, and looks like they'd be easy to magnetize so you can have all 3.

I'm sorry but the deathstrike looks like it was designed by an ork mechboy on happy juice.

Sidstyler wrote:The fire prism must be the first Jes Goodwin model I've seen that no one likes. And I'm not really sure I get why, it looks a lot better than before without the prissy-ass crystal just kinda stuck on. I like that there's an actual barrel now and that the crystal is integrated into it.

Other than that though, pretty underwhelming release. I like that the rules are free, I wish all the 40k expansions were free seeing as how they're all pretty crap anyway (and this one will probably be no different)...and I like the new Guard stuff...but that's it? Really?

Well, there's supposed to be one more release that's related to Imperial Guard Stormtroopers...

Anyways, I think people dislike the Fire Prism/Nightspinner because they have no taste. I like that he's bringing it in line with Forge World's line-up that he did the concept/sculpting work for.

The fire prism must be the first Jes Goodwin model I've seen that no one likes.

That's odd, isn't it? The new Goodwin design is much sleeker, high-tech and futuristic looking than the clunky gigantic crystal on the old design. This may be one of those circumstances where a lot of people are having trouble with the fact that the design changed at all more than the change itself, although they're not consciously aware of it and so the new design itself becomes the focus of their displeasure. Personally, I like all the new major plastic`releases here and am looking forward to painting a few.

Well then after skimming through the comments I suppose the only hope of sales of new Fire Prisms would rely on the Night Spinner part...

I actually like the support weapon; Looks neat to me. Just don't know what it is used for, though...

Sidstyler wrote:And I'm not really sure I get why, it looks a lot better than before without the prissy-ass crystal just kinda stuck on. I like that there's an actual barrel now and that the crystal is integrated into it.

Here is why i think.
In order to fit that size prism crystal in , the red ring and black part ( that connects to the turret ) need to be wider .
If not , it looks like a boa constrictor just ate an elephant and its stuck in the back of its throat.

So i made a pic explaining: (disclaimer , the bottom right pic only exists because i want to fit that ugly gray crystal in , and yes it looks stupid like that i know xD )

Getting the feeling that this "free" expansion was just a clever way to sneak in a Leman Russ price hike.

Some of those kits are nice, but they most certainly are not $50 worth nice. Wow......when did non-LR/BW tank kits jump that high?

carmachu wrote:Some of those kits are nice, but they most certainly are not $50 worth nice. Wow......when did non-LR/BW tank kits jump that high?

Since this guy i believe:

Correct. In August 2009 the current Demolisher and Hellhound kits were released at $49.50 US and that has been a fairly standard price point for new "tank" kits since then.

If you would like another alternative to the Leman Russ, please see here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

It is very much still a WIP, and not yet in production. I'm hoping to be able to go to PLASTIC production with this one, and for a cheaper price than the Leman Russ (seriously, after doing my research, there is really no reason at all that the kits have to be that expensive. They could cost half of that and GW would still make a very nice profit per unit sold (not counting labor costs, etc.) Also, dont be scared off by the pics on the first page, the design has changed rather considerably.


Lunahound - any chance you can photoshop an image that is JUST the prisms on the gun? I.E., the long piece is entirely absent, just the big back prism and it goes directly into the smaller front prism (or maybe there is a very short length of barrel?)

lunarman wrote:God, I pity the poor painter that had to paint 3 vindicators in a row.

I'm not too sure what GW hopes to achieve with this expansion. Since tanks are so expensive, few people have loads and loads of them. If spearhead truly affects only vehicles or allows vehicle-only battles and that's it. I can see it being a waste of time.

I mean, great in the Heavy-metal studio where you've got buckets of tanks at no cost. But in real-life, where most gamers have 1 or 2 2500 point armies containing anything from 1-6 tanks at most; nah.

Looking at the link above of the new scenery possibility, there's $350 in tanks on the imperial side that I can see, not including the costs of 3 chimeras(and men) and 4 sentinals, thats what a bit over $200 more excluding men?

double-trouble

Talking to me Illumini? I'll post a topic on dakka as it gets closer to done. I generally don't post on Dakka all that much, I just like to lurk/browse.

Talking to me Illumini? I'll post a topic on dakka as it gets closer to done. I generally don't post on Dakka all that much, I just like to lurk/browse.

Yes. The sound of it being available in plastic sounds very promising

"But the fact that you can now make a Vanquisher, Eradicator, Exterminator and Battle Tank all out of the same kit is, in my mind, greater than revamping the look. "

I have to agree with that comment, it pretty much looks the same, don't like the turret as much now, but for a extra £5 being able to swap the barrel to make make other varients gives makes it ok.

Nah, don`t really like the design of the tank on warseer. The design goes against nearly everything that makes a good tank design.

The tank is lacking hatches for the crew to get out, cuppolas are at positons where gunners would have to be serpentine to use them and the ratio of turret to body is way off. Not to speak of the turret ring that draws enemy fire like a big huge X. Hit the ring and the tank is history.....

whatever, to each their own. The design actually makes a fair bit more sense than you realize (but I suppose thats part of the problem with it being more in my head than "on paper"), and isn't quite as vulnerable as you think, but whatever.

BrassScorpion wrote:

The fire prism must be the first Jes Goodwin model I've seen that no one likes.

That's odd, isn't it?

The new Goodwin design is much sleeker, high-tech and futuristic looking than the clunky gigantic crystal on the old design.

This may be one of those circumstances where a lot of people are having trouble with the fact that the design changed at all more than the change itself, although they're not consciously aware of it and so the new design itself becomes the focus of their displeasure.

The gigantic crystal was bigger and more "prism" than the revised design. Adding the barrel is awkward, at best. While it's fine to have a big prism and a long barrel, the particular approach here doesn't work. It'd be better if the crystal were behind and then the barrel went forward, with a mechanical whatnot between the two to bridge from the large, "light" crystal, to the slender, delicate barrel. It's a very poor design, because it's unmatched. At least with the old FP, you could see that there were dual generators and mechanicals, and the whole thing had an interesting asymmetry with the huge crystal and the secondary whatnot.

The nose-mounted turret guns just look goofy. They're large, but they're not centered. And they're on bulbous mounts which don't integrate well into the shape. Had the mounts been designed to echo the intakes on the main hull, more on the sides of the turret, this wouldn't be a problem. As it is, there's no clean linkage from the crewed turret portion to the guns. It's like they're wing-mounted or panel-mounted, but in an odd way. And then there's a total lack of balance, due to only seeing the front of the gun, rather than the whole thing on WLs, WWs, etc. This works on Imperials, because the gun barrel visually extends into the turret. But here, there's just no balancing. I just think the whole gun-turret interface is pure fail.

Now, granted, the turret, without guns is a nice sculpt. As others have noted, it'd make a nice mini-skimmer of some sort. But it doesn't really suit or match the Falcon, and the Falcon itself is becoming rather dated, being grossly undersized compared to the more modern Valkyrie / Vendetta kit. If the Falcon core hull (including engines) were extended by an inch and a half (or more), then the larger Turret would be in proportion to the hull, as we've seen with the FW "Type II" Cobra & Scorpion superheavies. The new Engines of Vaul have tremendous battlefield presence because of their very large, wide hulls. This allows for similarly large, impressive, sculpted turrets. In many ways, the new FP / NS turret could be better modified to fit on one of those than on the Falcon. I wonder if the FP / NS turret was designed to sit on a FW Falcon "type II" hull. That might look acceptable.

However, as someone with roughly 10k of Eldar, no, this doesn't match, and I won't be buying any.

@chaosomega

I can only judge from what I see and there is a reason why nearly every tank in existence goes out of its way to protect its turret ring.

The commanders cuppola e.g. is outside the ring area, how is someone supposed to "sit" in there without being on his knees when the hatch is closed?

Nearly every tank tries to keep the profile of the turret as low as possible (ok, except for KV-5 and other monstrosities that never really made into assambly line production.), your tank seems in contrast to draw all attention on the turret.

Has any one besides me noticed that the sprue pic has 2 sets of crystal cages the one with the barrel and the one without.

sonofruss wrote:Has any one besides me noticed that the sprue pic has 2 sets of crystal cages the one with the barrel and the one without.

The crystal is 6 sided, you add the two parts without the barrel to the piece with the barrel.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@chaosomega

I can only judge from what I see and there is a reason why nearly every tank in existence goes out of its way to protect its turret ring.

The commanders cuppola e.g. is outside the ring area, how is someone supposed to "sit" in there without being on his knees when the hatch is closed?

Nearly every tank tries to keep the profile of the turret as low as possible (ok, except for KV-5 and other monstrosities that never really made into assambly line production.), your tank seems in contrast to draw all attention on the turret.

Not really the right place to argue this, but the turret ring is actually fairly well protected. The CAD model doesn't really represent it well, but the gap to to the turret ring is only about a mm in size (if that) and the area around it is faily well armored (in real world terms probably almost a foot thick). Not only that, but to even attempt to shoot at it, you (or the weapon being fired) would have to be at roughly the same height as the turret ring itself, more than a couple degrees of angle and you'll be hitting turret or hull armor instead.

The commanders cuppola is .8" (4/5") in height, model-wise, which is just shy of 5 feet in real world terms (25/28mm scale), more than enough space to sit (especially when the seat is in a reclined position, which is the way I imagined it would be, especially considering the cuppola is the equivalent of 6 ft in diameter, as well as the fact that there is ample space behind the cuppola itself for this to occur.

As for profile, its .75" in height(on average, about 4.5 ft real world), so it is actually fairly low profile, especially in comparison to the rest of the tank.

chaos0xomega

I love your design on warseer. Too me Idaho's real world criticism simply doesn't matter to me in the world of 40k. It simply looks good.

However, how long before it hits production?

If it would be real world comparison I would have even more to complain about. The problem is: It ignores basic principles for armoured vehicles that even GW respects.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If it would be real world comparison I would have even more to complain about. The problem is: It ignores basic principles for armoured vehicles that even GW respects.

GW? Seriously? Need I remind you that the LRBT is fire controlled by a man's pelvis? Might as well call it the, Elvis Battle Tank or something. How do they even load this thing without wracking the tank commander? "Suck it in Commander, I'm trying to put a shell in the main gun!"

Duncan, my design may violate the basic principals that GW respects, but my design also respects the principals that GW violates. Either way, each design violates something, I like to think that my design violates them to a lesser degree, and even then, it doesn't really violate them if you bothered to read my previous post at all, it just takes certain liberties with the designs (that can be explained with varying levels of handwavium).

glon52, thank you for the kind words. No clue on when it hits production. I've been hitting certain mental blocks where I'm really not sure how to proceed recently, but I'm about to start my summer break (and if this break is anything like the last break I had, I'm likely to get the design to 99% completion by its end). After that, its a money game.

Depending on how much it costs, I might be able to go to limited resin production immediately. Again, depending on how I handle things, etc. I might even be able to immediately go to mold production/tooling (figure about 8 weeks for that entire process) and then plastic production. But thats going to cost about 20k USD... I dont have that much money, so I would have to see about securing a loan/see how much interest there is for the product, etc. (it seems like it would be fairly successful).

My best estimation (assuming all goes well) is a release in time for christmas.

chaos0xomega, I like the style of the tank. I'd buy more than one. If in plastic and easy to assemble.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If it would be real world comparison I would have even more to complain about. The problem is: It ignores basic principles for armoured vehicles that even GW respects.

If a tank looks cool, it will have a place in my and many other gamers armies.

Sod basic principles for armoured vehicles, if a grimdark guardsman was able to escape with the help of 21st century tank design I would be disappointed.

agnosto wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:If it would be real world comparison I would have even more to complain about. The problem is: It ignores basic principles for armoured vehicles that even GW respects.

GW? Seriously? Need I remind you that the LRBT is fire controlled by a man's pelvis? Might as well call it the, Elvis Battle Tank or something. How do they even load this thing without wracking the tank commander? "Suck it in Commander, I'm trying to put a shell in the main gun!"

Pfft, the commander simply climbs outside everytime they fire or load the cannon. It is sound engineering.

The GW russ does at least have "some" sloping armour though, but it has a very tall profile, rivets, sponsons and a silly turret


I do agree that the commander position is one bad thing about the warseer tank though. It is exposed, and he is stuck there in a sitting position.

The GW Russ has would pulp the commander when the battlecannon fired.

And that thing is full of shot traps.

If not for the magic of Imperial STCs, that thing would be a complete deathtrap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, the new Russes, with the extended, overhanging Turrets have different problems, mainly, how the Gun doesn't smash itself through the Turret floor when it recoils, presuming that there's any loading mechanism behind the pivot center.

I do agree that the commander position is one bad thing about the warseer tank though. It is exposed, and he is stuck there in a sitting position.

How else is he going to be driven closer to have at you with a power sword or las pistol?

You nancies want to see some real tanks?



Of course the Germans never got around to building these before the end of the war.

The LR is mainly quite a nice copy of the French 1-man-turret tanks where the commander always doubled as gunner and loader. Guess why they lost the war.... (with their tank commanders simply not able to do all necessaey tanks at once). The rest of the LR is more ore less taken from the british TOG 2 with some Mark IV in between.

It at least copies ideas that were tried out and in the end found lacking, Some of our design ideas on the other hand would make every engineer cringe when just thinking about them (tanks on the rear more or less are just held by an armour plate and the space between tracks and this plate cries for a gammon bomb to really disable the whole tank)

Also, your calculations abot production cost seem a little bit wonky. I do have the numbers from some companies that can do such resin modells and they are nowhere near your numbers (for a reason)

I don`t want to curb your enthusiasm, but I am tackling it from a business perspective.

If you call it 4th Reich Tank, many Alternate WWII guys will rightly claim that there is no similarity to any german designs. The Mortian is much closer to WWII tanks and the StuG variant is even a very close variant of a real StuG IV or III.

@picture
Well, no wonder two of them are not German, one is French the other US.

The Maus was actually built and can be admired in a museum near Moscow. The E100 prototype at least got partially built and tested, but no prototpye survived. And the K-Wagen was built for WWI but never really saw action.

BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

JohnHwangDD wrote:BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

I beg to differ:

JohnHwangDD wrote:BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

I've not seen any evidence that either design actually dates back from WW2. They could well be products of the Internet.

They didn't actually build them.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p-10001500-pzkpfw-ixx.htm

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

It at least copies ideas that were tried out and in the end found lacking, Some of our design ideas on the other hand would make every engineer cringe when just thinking about them (tanks on the rear more or less are just held by an armour plate and the space between tracks and this plate cries for a gammon bomb to really disable the whole tank)

Also, your calculations abot production cost seem a little bit wonky. I do have the numbers from some companies that can do such resin modells and they are nowhere near your numbers (for a reason)

I don`t want to curb your enthusiasm, but I am tackling it from a business perspective.

If you call it 4th Reich Tank, many Alternate WWII guys will rightly claim that there is no similarity to any german designs. The Mortian is much closer to WWII tanks and the StuG variant is even a very close variant of a real StuG IV or III.

Duncan, you didn't actually bother to look past the first page (or the last page is my guess), did you? The tanks on the rear are actually held in place via a strap in the latest design. I'm not really sure what spacing you're referring to (as again there isn't a plate in the latest design), so whatever. Although the way I see it, its fine. Whats that about Grenades in close combat hitting against rear armor...?

My cost calculations are pretty much spot on, actually. Thats what I was quoted by companies (in the US) who can do CAM mold tooling and plastic injection (not resin) for a model of this size and complexity.

As for 4th reich tank, that was a concept that I abandoned quite some time ago (which you would have realized if you read through the rest of the thread).

Either way, you seem to be in the minority in regards to the tank design, for that I am grateful.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

I've not seen any evidence that either design actually dates back from WW2. They could well be products of the Internet.

You should read "My Tank Is Fight!" which besides sounding silly is a really informative book on the subject of these wartime projects.

I haven't played my IG in 6 years, but I'm going to have to buy a hand full of manticores and bring them out of retierment.

agnosto wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

I beg to differ:

Those aren't wheels. Try again.

@omega
I have read the full thread, but some issues were not that clear. Maybe you dropped the name, but I found no post that explicitly stated it. Still, most of my critisizm is still reflected by many in the thread. The one about the plate, ok, didn´t registered the new picture, but still, there is still too much room between the barrel and the "fender", makes it a nice shot trap.

And if they really can offer you such low prices I wonder how they manage it. Look out for additional "extras" you will have to pay for.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Those aren't wheels. Try again.

Seriously? You're that anal....I mean it's harder to cast a tube than cast a solid wheel.... Uh, ok.



Older than WWII:


Be a man and admit you're wrong.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

agnosto wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:BTW, the P1000 and P1500 don't match spec illustrations.

Nobody can cast wheels that large.

I beg to differ:

Those aren't wheels. Try again.

Someone say something about wheels?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@omega
I have read the full thread, but some issues were not that clear. Maybe you dropped the name, but I found no post that explicitly stated it. Still, most of my critisizm is still reflected by many in the thread. The one about the plate, ok, didn´t registered the new picture, but still, there is still too much room between the barrel and the "fender", makes it a nice shot trap.

And if they really can offer you such low prices I wonder how they manage it. Look out for additional "extras" you will have to pay for.

I don't see the tank you guys are talking about.

BrookM wrote:You should read "My Tank Is Fight!" which besides sounding silly is a really informative book on the subject of these wartime projects.

From what little I've heard of the book, it sounded like a pretty sensationalist work that didn't really go much for the verification and referencing I'm mostly interested in about the thing. I've never been interested in it enough to order a copy from the US merely to stifle my curiosity. I've not heard of too many other sources for the supposed project, which makes it sound unlikely, given how many volumes have been written about German experimental weapons and hypothetical designs.

Given the obvious shortcomings of the vehicle as described, I find it unlikely that it would have come from the drawing board of any competent German vehicle designer (especially if we consider the materials costs of such a monstrous thing).

Ratte and Monster can be verified from the german military archieves, but like the H-class battleships the were just design studies.

chaos0xomega wrote:If you would like another alternative to the Leman Russ, please see here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

It is very much still a WIP, and not yet in production. I'm hoping to be able to go to PLASTIC production with this one, and for a cheaper price than the Leman Russ (seriously, after doing my research, there is really no reason at all that the kits have to be that expensive. They could cost half of that and GW would still make a very nice profit per unit sold (not counting labor costs, etc.) Also, dont be scared off by the pics on the first page, the design has changed rather considerably.

The reason why I haven't gone with a substitute for the LRBT is simply because I haven't found a kit that has the same dimensions. I don't need to use GW miniatures, but I would like my proxies to be accurate for fair gameplay.

If your kit is the same height, width, and length AND beats GW's prices, count me in. Bonus points if it is designed to be easily converted for weapon swaps.

So, anyway, on-topic for a change.

I'm really not liking the Deathstrike. The missile design they went with looks... well, odd. I wonder if they chose that design with the express purpose of making it impossible to get 4 spare Manticore missiles from one kit.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I wonder if they chose that design with the express purpose of making it impossible to get 4 spare Manticore missiles from one kit.

Nah... why would they do that?

Blah .. i don't care if stuff looks accurate or "realistic", as long as it just looks cool. I mean... it's a make believe sci fi game and we're all grown men still playing with toys. Use some imagination

BrookM wrote:You should read "My Tank Is Fight!" which besides sounding silly is a really informative book on the subject of these wartime projects.

while an interesting premise/subject matter, the book is pretty bad. the author's writing style reminded me of someone barely literate trying to formulate a REALLY long forum post and only partly succeeding. the cover was the best part of the book, lol.

This topic has officially gone south. How about starting a new one for the tank design? I don't ask to get it thrown out of here, I'd like to track the progress of the project without it getting lost in the clutter.

agnosto wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Those aren't wheels. Try again.

Seriously? You're that anal....I mean it's harder to cast a tube than cast a solid wheel.... Uh, ok.

Older than WWII:


Be a man and admit you're wrong.

As illustrated, those wheels would be solid steel and 16 feet in diameter. I figure a nominal weight of 20-25 tons per wheel, assuming the Photoshopped Russian T-xx chassis "worked". That's a lot of steel to cast.

Also, tube is carrying load very differently.

The crawler you show isn't self-propelled, and I can't tell how large the wheels are.

Those cannon wheels are only 8 feet high. They don't appear to be steel nor cast. Go ahead and find a cast wheel that's 15+ feet tall, and I'll be glad to admit that it's doable.

The Green Git wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I wonder if they chose that design with the express purpose of making it impossible to get 4 spare Manticore missiles from one kit.

Nah... why would they do that?

Use magnets. For like, the whole thing. That's what I'll be doing and I won't have to buy twice as many kits.

Sidstyler wrote:The fire prism must be the first Jes Goodwin model I've seen that no one likes. And I'm not really sure I get why, it looks a lot better than before without the prissy-ass crystal just kinda stuck on. I like that there's an actual barrel now and that the crystal is integrated into it.

Other than that though, pretty underwhelming release. I like that the rules are free, I wish all the 40k expansions were free seeing as how they're all pretty crap anyway (and this one will probably be no different)...and I like the new Guard stuff...but that's it? Really?

Hey, I love the new fire prism. Like you, I think the old one looked like crap, while the new one looks a lot more "Eldar" to me. I actually see the relatively small scale of this release as a good thing, and was in fact dreading they would make a huge deal out of it. The more major the release, the longer we would have to wait for the next codex!

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Ratte and Monster can be verified from the german military archieves, but like the H-class battleships the were just design studies.

They built the turret for the Ratte. Researched it a bit for my science class. Nazi's had TONS of crazy ideas (ala. Sun Cannon), and most didn't make it it into production. The Ratte project was canceled, and they re fitted the turret for a Normandy bunker. Looked like a fething battleship cannon (description).

Anyway, I think I can make a manticore have both weapons options, but the Deathstrike would need plasticard to be an ICBM. Would look just as good though.

Wow does every topic involving IG have to devolve into WW2 talk somehow? The war is over guys, we've seen the 300000 documentaries and watched band of brothers 40 times

yes I love saving private ryan and the call of duty WW2 games too! This is as predictable as melissa showing up on BOLS and spamming her babble whenever the Sisters of battle are mentioned

The imperial guard are not the allies nor the axis... they use tanks from 1918, plasma guns from the future, have russian commissar commanders and then went to the shire and recruited FRODO BAGGINS to be a sniper..

Kirasu wrote:Wow does every topic involving IG have to devolve into WW2 talk somehow? The war is over guys, we've seen the 300000 documentaries and watched band of brothers 40 times

yes I love saving private ryan and the call of duty WW2 games too! This is as predictable as melissa showing up on BOLS and spamming her babble whenever the Sisters of battle are mentioned

The imperial guard are not the allies nor the axis... they use tanks from 1918, plasma guns from the future, have russian commissar commanders and then went to the shire and recruited FRODO BAGGINS to be a sniper..

And we will never get tired of complaining about the damn tractor tanks.

They built the turret for the Ratte.

Actually it was a battleship turret from the beginning on, modified for tests, it never really was built with the Ratte in mind.

@Crawler
It is self-propelled and has its own power station in its base (enough energy to support a small village) but the wheels are not that big. Come to northern Germany to see such a beast in action. Oh, and it is slow as hell.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

They built the turret for the Ratte.

Actually it was a battleship turret from the beginning on, modified for tests, it never really was built with the Ratte in mind.

Whops, sorry bout that.

pombe wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:If you would like another alternative to the Leman Russ, please see here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928

It is very much still a WIP, and not yet in production. I'm hoping to be able to go to PLASTIC production with this one, and for a cheaper price than the Leman Russ (seriously, after doing my research, there is really no reason at all that the kits have to be that expensive. They could cost half of that and GW would still make a very nice profit per unit sold (not counting labor costs, etc.) Also, dont be scared off by the pics on the first page, the design has changed rather considerably.

The reason why I haven't gone with a substitute for the LRBT is simply because I haven't found a kit that has the same dimensions. I don't need to use GW miniatures, but I would like my proxies to be accurate for fair gameplay.

If your kit is the same height, width, and length AND beats GW's prices, count me in. Bonus points if it is designed to be easily converted for weapon swaps.

No dice. I inted for all weapon options to be available, and magnetization to be easy, but size is something that I refuse to do. The Leman Russ is unrealistically tiny, which is actually one of my biggest complaints about it. Therefore, I want with a larger design (about the size of a wave serpent).

UltraPrime wrote:This topic has officially gone south. How about starting a new one for the tank design? I don't ask to get it thrown out of here, I'd like to track the progress of the project without it getting lost in the clutter.

Noted. i will soonish since it seems like there is some interest.

chaos0xomega wrote:which is actually one of my biggest complaints about it. Therefore, I want with a larger design (about the size of a wave serpent).

Well here is a good reason to stop waiting for your kit and not get it.

On topic though I HAVE to get at least 2 Manticores, but the deathstrike is just sily, it's TOO SMALL.

Okay, does anyone have anything to say about the Spearhead _rules_? All this treadhead weenie-waving is hilarious and all, but perhaps someone out there can dilute it with info about what will be in the WD (and thanks to whoever can- I've been drooling over this idea for some time).

From what I have heard, its standard FOC, but all minimum limits are removed (I.E. no min. hq and 2 troops)

Additionally, there are formations available ala apoc (focusing on vehicles/tanks, etc.)

deployment is done on short edges

thats about all I got

I'm not sure what GW was thinking with the release of the Eldar Support Weapon platform kit. Since 5th edition, those went back in everyone's carrying cases. Was it the possibility to make one more plastic kit and they flipped a coin as to what non Imperial army would get it? This just takes it one step closer to an all plastic range? Does GW really expect to recoup their costs with this kit?

That's the cynic in me talking. The very hopeful person in me wishes for an updated codex where the platforms could be useful again. Until that happens, I'll just continue to look at my metal versions collecting dust on my shelf.

Sarigar wrote:I'm not sure what GW was thinking with the release of the Eldar Support Weapon platform kit. Since 5th edition, those went back in everyone's carrying cases.

Do you think they know and/or care?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sarigar wrote:I'm not sure what GW was thinking with the release of the Eldar Support Weapon platform kit. Since 5th edition, those went back in everyone's carrying cases.

Do you think they know and/or care?

But I thought only the good units got new plastic kits?

Choas Possessed!

Savnock wrote:Okay, does anyone have anything to say about the Spearhead _rules_? All this treadhead weenie-waving is hilarious and all, but perhaps someone out there can dilute it with info about what will be in the WD (and thanks to whoever can- I've been drooling over this idea for some time).

Already posted it a few pages ago, but it got buried in the tank-spam:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/294106.page#1563882

Scottywan82 wrote:That price tag is mad heavy though. And it's currently missing a few option I would like to see. Perhaps things like an E-radiatior Cannon and a Punishing Gun? It's a good size tank though. Beefier than the LRBT by far which is cool.

Did you purposefully name the two worst variants? Well, okay, maybe two of the three worst variants, since the Vanquisher is the absolute worst... but they still both suck.

I do like the look of the tank quite a bit, but you also have to consider that the size makes sponsons harder to use, plus creates maneuvering/cover difficulties. Could someone link me to the guy's site? If it was linked already, I'm having trouble finding it in all the clutter.

http://www.heavy-support.com/

There might be some connection problems, caused by Denic today.

Yeah, after shipping to the US, it comes out to a few dollars over $100 for a single tank!

ShumaGorath wrote:But I thought only the good units got new plastic kits?

There's a big difference between what they think is a good unit, and what actually is a good unit.

I am so excited for June 5th. However I still can't decide manticore or deathstrike?

The Night Stalker wrote: I am so excited for June 5th. However I still can't decide manticore or deathstrike?

The answer you are looking for is: Ork Stormboyz that use the Manticore rockets as their jump pack. The Nob gets the Deathstrike.

I must say that even though I didn't like the prism at all at first, it has started to grow on me. I'm probably going to get a few as it's a very interesting unit to field

Oh, And I'm stealing that quote, Kirasu. Couldn't help my self laughing

Do anybody have a general idea what the Night Spinner would be? Fire Prism is great, bu I want to know more about the new vehicle...

ryanstartalker wrote:Do anybody have a general idea what the Night Spinner would be? Fire Prism is great, bu I want to know more about the new vehicle...

From what I can recall, it's a TL S6 AP - rending? large blast that sticks around for a turn and counts as dangerous terrain.

Um... Not so bad for mission against light infantry... But does it have the chance to kill terminator-level threat, based on this data? Dangerous terrain, rending, and blast...

The Night Stalker wrote: I am so excited for June 5th. However I still can't decide manticore or deathstrike?

Well, it's basically a decision of "best artillery tank IG has available" or "very fun little toy that is not the least bit competitive but still is very fun".

Illumini wrote:

Sageheart wrote:i really like the deathstrike missile launcher! i'm totally going to find a way to get one.


but has anyone noticed the lack of that "free model" tanks gave you? you use to get the tank crew character that could be put on a stand and i thought was cool to have as an adviser of some sorts. now they aren't there and can only be bought on the bitz section of the website. am i wrong about this?

The free guy is for the basilisk I believe. I can understand why they would not include him on a close topped tank. He is still in the basilisk box, right?

i didn't know if he only came in that set. my friend just had a bunch of them, and only one basilisk but a bunch of other tanks. i assumed that it came in all tank sets but i don't know. he could have gotten them a different way, people tend to give him models once and a while.

The problem is that I think the Fire prism can do the night spinners work almost as good as the night spinner, and then some!

The Nightspinner doesn't impress me that much... but if it reads AP- then... meh. I face to much MEQ to allow armour saves.

Enigma wrote:The problem is that I think the Fire prism can do the night spinners work almost as good as the night spinner, and then some!

And that is the problem.

OTOH, if each NS drops at least 2 large 5" templates, then it will make up in quantity of hits what it lacks in quality.

Heck, I could see *each* NS gun dropping a barrage of d3 small 3" templates, for a total of 2d3 small 3" blasts per tank. Make them affordable as a squadron of 3, and you'd have 6d3 small 3" blasts total. That's the kind of serious anti-horde blanket coverage that FPs simply can't match, while still keeping FPs well-tailored for the non-horde targets that they excel against.

The only real "problem" is NS is only S6 against Mech, but with enough hits on something, eventually, it gets a Rear armor.

I knew new support platform was coming since they suddenly stopped selling the old one here. I like the new design and the price is cool... Regarding the crew I guess rules will be solved in the upcoming codex (whever it will come).

Now I can only wish for the new jetbikes

I'd love to see the Night Spinner get some love. But I think it'll be hard as the Fire Prisms gun is pretty good at both hordes and armour... It might not be as accurate as a twin linked gun, but still not far from... :/

Enigma wrote:It might not be as accurate as a twin linked gun

...unless you have two Fire Prisms

haha, indeed, but then I could as well have two Night spinners

Not as powerful, but more hits

I'd have been much happier if they'd have dedicated the effort of a new Eldar tank to bringing a Scorpion out for us in plastic. Would have been a better idea for the players and for the company, IMO.

Ah well, the new Prism does look nifty. But I won't be shelling out $50 a pop just for a new look. The money I'd spend on upgrading my 3 Prisms almost gets me another Forgeworld Scorpion to add to my list.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:I'd have been much happier if they'd have dedicated the effort of a new Eldar tank to bringing a Scorpion out for us in plastic.

Amen to that. I'd have bought a few.

This is kind of off topic, but, the IG shadowsword/stormlord kit, seen here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1860243&rootCatGameStyle=

Would it be possible to magnetize/ swap out the turrets? or do they force you to build it as one or the other.