Well, as with everything there are differing opinions and always someone who won't shut their trap about it. Just tell him to lay off with it and if he gets pissed you lay off him and walk away ("lay off him" is not a term for violence here but one of rejection, use at own risk and uphold copyright, if any ).
Grambo wrote:.My friend is obssesed with it and he wotn shut up about it.
This is probably more of the reason why you don't like it than it being anime. The obsessives of anything can ruin something, though I will admit a particular dislike of otakus as well. Like most things, some of it is good, most of it is bad.
I have to agree. For the most part, Anime is over-the-top, nonsensical and clichéd to within an inch of it's life. There are a few exceptions, but otherwise I find watching it too painful, especially with their insistence that 16-year-old schoolgirls can backflip 100ft in the air and kick a guy so hard he breaks through walls. Not even Marneus Calgar, King of the Mary-Sue fluff, could get away with that.
..and yet I quite like Manga. Odd.
Could it be that you (along with a great deal many others) equate "Anime" with long-running Shounen fighting shows such as "Bleach", "Dragonball Z" and "Naruto"? They certainly enjoy an almost insane level of popularity and so tend to be what people not explicitly looking for other types of anime tend to form their opinions off of. However, it is still just one (fairly narrow) genre in a rather diverse media. Which isn't to really bash them either, I can certainly understand the appeal and when I'm in the right mood me and my inner 14 year old can get quite the kick out of them.
EDIT: It's certainly very possible you don't. However I've found it's fairly common in the cases where someone says "I hate anime but [Cowboy Bebop/Ghost in the Shell] was pretty good"
Luna is going to eat you alive when she see's this thread.
I do not think that anime sucks. Granted, I am not a particular fan of that style of animation or storylining, but I understand that there are many people who are. I would have preffered a neutral option in your poll, but then again what does my opinion count for anyway, eh?
Not all anime is bad. I'll grant that almost every anime TV series you can watch right now is garbage. But, go to your local video store and you might be able to find some GOOD anime, like:
Lupin the 3rd: A master thief, Lupin, and his friend Jigen make heists while outrunning the law.
Samurai 7: Steampunk reimagining of Akira Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai.
Anime films by Studio Ghibli: The moviess produced by this studio make legendary films look like mockbusters.
I'm not too much into Anime TV series, there are a few that I quite like (Restaurant Paradisio and Gantz) but some I really don't like, Naruto for one.
The Studio Ghibli films are amazing, I love anime films, well, some of them anyway. I do, like manga very much, particularly Death Note and the recent Darren Shan manga ^^
Disposable Hero wrote:Not all anime is bad. I'll grant that almost every anime TV series you can watch right now is garbage. But, go to your local video store and you might be able to find some GOOD anime, like:
Lupin the 3rd: A master thief, Lupin, and his friend Jigen make heists while outrunning the law.
Samurai 7: Steampunk reimagining of Akira Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai.
Anime films by Studio Ghibli: The moviess produced by this studio make legendary films look like mockbusters.
Not to mention you get a fair amount streaming that's decent these days. For example I've really been enjoy House of Five Leaves this season. Though, I'm not sure we have the same tastes Lupin the 3rd got old fast, and Samurai 7 was pretty "meh" in my opinion.
I like anime the same way I like collecting GW and FW miniatures and models. I like some of it, but no way would I invest my whole being into it. Some stories, fluff, characters, authors, etc are great. Some are not so great, to the extent one could say they suck. Where my opinion falls now is true for both anime and miniature collecting/ gaming. All the best stuff is already out, and most of the new stuff is disappointing, but once in awhile something inspired comes along that allows me to admit to myself that I like anime, or I like table top war games, regardless of the genras' short comings as a whole.
Could it be that you (along with a great deal many others) equate "Anime" with long-running Shounen fighting shows such as "Bleach", "Dragonball Z" and "Naruto"? They certainly enjoy an almost insane level of popularity and so tend to be what people not explicitly looking for other types of anime tend to form their opinions off of. However, it is still just one (fairly narrow) genre in a rather diverse media. Which isn't to really bash them either, I can certainly understand the appeal and when I'm in the right mood me and my inner 14 year old can get quite the kick out of them.
EDIT: It's certainly very possible you don't. However I've found it's fairly common in the cases where someone says "I hate anime but [Cowboy Bebop/Ghost in the Shell] was pretty good"
Some anime is good others like Naruto and such are pretty bad and I don't see where they get the insane levels of popularity from. Sure it's nonsensical, but if everything in every form of entertainment had to be, well then watching the grass would be the best form of entertainment known to man.
I might point out that, compared to the over all percentage of television and movies produced, anime has less gak per capita then, say, soap operas or 'reality TV'
I'd estimate it's gak content is about on par with live action sitcoms and action movies.
I mean, come on, I don't think any of us can say that Sly or AHnold have ever produced any deeply thought provoking films, but I think it's safe to say that a lot of them were over the top, nonsensical and cliche'd within an inch of their lives.
Old Bleach (before it became like DBZ where everyone was flying around) was pretty good.
Full Metal Alchemist is outstanding, in mein eyes. I don't know why, it just is.
Robotech has both sides trying to second guess eachother, though it DOES have minmei....
Nothing, if you like hearing someone screaming into a microphone.
I'd beg to differ on Naruto. I'll admit, it's annoying, and juvenile for the entire first series.
Shippuden on the other hand really picked it up. It became a lot more mature and adult like, and the storyline has reached new heights. As far as I'm concerned, I'd skip the first series if you didn't need to watch it to understand Shippuden.
Can the op tell us why he hates it.
Hanestly i dont get the difference on anime and regualer action tv shows.
But i love shows like bleach ghost in the shell.
Bleach is one of the few popular anime that I actually have enjoyed watching on occasion.
If the op would like something particular to complain about, i can recommend several comedy battle harem anime that I think he'll find even more loathsome.
And I thought all metal was about screaming. Screaming people, screaming guitars, screaming fans...
I would disagree. Iron Maiden has a thing for melodies, and a decent vocalist, Metallica did their S&M album with an orchestra, and so on. Dragonforce, despite every song sounding the same, has some awesome guitar solos and synthesizer effects. Metal doesn't have just be screaming and beating the crap out of your instrument. I'd listen to punk if that was what I was after.
The same thing the OP finds wrong with Anime. Metal is a form of music that some find just as annoying as he appareantly finds anime. Personally I like both metal and anime, but there are also forms of both that I also detest. I understand that my friends have different tastes and make the effort respect their preferences, even if I personally don't care for such.
My statement was intended to point out that he may be displaying a double standard and might be the source of the problem. Especially, if he feels the need to drown out someones choice while in that persons house. Maybe his friend does this because the OP is trying to control this friends space.
Now as to Slayer, Maybe I am into Megadeth or maybe it is that Slayer has spent the majority of their career being an un-noteworthy middle of the pack cover band and their recent grammies could be interpretted a sign of how far metal has fallen as a genre rather than any increase in artistic ability.
Seriously, I don't have a real problem with Slayer, but there are other bands I like much better.
If not for nothing, anime at least attempts at an artistic style (the best of it mind you) that American cartoons have stopped attempting. When I watch an anime, I want to see the backdrops, the scenery, the intricate places and designs that go into the production of the cartoon.
Give me an American cartoon that tries as hard as anime does to make it look like moving art. And yes, I am aware of cartoons in general:
I always say this when anime is brought up but I shall say it again.
I find it very depressing that most of the anime I like, people at school have not a damn clue what i'm talking about. Since 90% of the ones I ever liked were in the 90's.
Shadowbrand wrote:I find it very depressing that most of the anime I like, people at school have not a damn clue what i'm talking about. Since 90% of the ones I ever liked were in the 90's.
Is this what its like to feel old?
Not unless you can recall a time when the only anime available was nth generation VHS tapes that may or may not have subs. Fear the 80s... PH33R!
That said: yes, when I say BGC, I mean the Kenichi Sonoda one, not the later, 26 ep one.
For some reason, I just remembered the time I watched Unico and Urotsukudoji back to back...
^^^Yes Shadowbrand,.......this is just the first glimpse of what it is like. Now imagine being in my position of mentioning or trying to explain Akira, Star Blazers, the original Robotech, the original Speed Racer, and the original Astroboy(which was around before I was born) to the people your age.
Ketara wrote:I would disagree. Iron Maiden has a thing for melodies, and a decent vocalist, Metallica did their S&M album with an orchestra, and so on. Dragonforce, despite every song sounding the same, has some awesome guitar solos and synthesizer effects. Metal doesn't have just be screaming and beating the crap out of your instrument. I'd listen to punk if that was what I was after.
The wide varitey of bands that encompass "punk" feature a vast amount of styles,and the majority do not include "screaming & beating the crap out of their instuments".
Just thought I'd put that out there.
As to the OPs question,some anime sucks,some of it is ok...basicly like everything else in existance.
I said it before and i'll say it till the day i die!
anime is just a medium to tell a story , nothing more and nothing less.
Of course this encompass many different types and genres of anime to which they target certain audiences.
Saying "anime is bad" makes as much sense as comparing ironman movie to dragon ball movie just because they
are both comic to movie adaptations.
To tell the truth, I have never really cared for that in anime. I don't know why, but I have always thought that the giant headlights anime girls display were unneccesary.
To tell the truth, I have never really cared for that in anime. I don't know why, but I have always thought that the giant headlights anime girls display were unneccesary.
It wouldn't be so bad if the vast majority of anime wasn't hilariously sexist.
To tell the truth, I have never really cared for that in anime. I don't know why, but I have always thought that the giant headlights anime girls display were unneccesary.
It wouldn't be so bad if the vast majority of anime wasn't hilariously sexist.
Too true. Too true. Another reason I like FMA. Only one character is unneccesarily "sultry", and thats kinda needed when she's the sin Lust.
To tell the truth, I have never really cared for that in anime. I don't know why, but I have always thought that the giant headlights anime girls display were unneccesary.
It wouldn't be so bad if the vast majority of anime wasn't hilariously sexist.
Too true. Too true. Another reason I like FMA. Only one character is unneccesarily "sultry", and thats kinda needed when she's the sin Lust.
Yeah, the first FMA anime was nice. The only useless girls fawning over the male characters and being "protected" were rose and winry, and both of them had counterpoints in lust and hawkeye. The new series doesn't do so well in this regard, but it's still not bad. It would be nice if any of the shonen jump series weren't just male power fantasies with absolutely useless female "support" casts though.
BaronIveagh wrote:Screaming something sucks is almost as good as putting breasts on it.
Edit: Shuma, watch Sekirei, the anime I got the image from earlier. The guy in the series is the only one who doesn't have any powers at all.
Capability doesn't denote sexism or lack of. The female characters in naruto are all accomplished ninjas, that doesn't prevent them from being vulnerable little sets of boobs that the main characters have to "protect". The female characters in bleach all have wacky ghost powers and it's not like they ever do anything except occasionally get disrobed. One piece follows the same formula, as does the majority of male-lead anime.
Having never seen the series that pictures from though, all I can really wonder is whether she's 14 with those things.
Batman Gotham Knight is a rather good package, despite different studios and styles being used. The "Odd One Out" and "Home Coming" segments from Halo Legends are also great.
BrookM wrote:Batman Gotham Knight is a rather good package, despite different studios and styles being used. The "Odd One Out" and "Home Coming" segments from Halo Legends are also great.
I especially liked the part where batman punched a bullet out of the air in gotham knight. That said, the segment with the children's stories and the segment about pain were phenomenal.
BaronIveagh wrote:Screaming something sucks is almost as good as putting breasts on it.
Edit: Shuma, watch Sekirei, the anime I got the image from earlier. The guy in the series is the only one who doesn't have any powers at all.
Capability doesn't denote sexism or lack of. The female characters in naruto are all accomplished ninjas, that doesn't prevent them from being vulnerable little sets of boobs that the main characters have to "protect". The female characters in bleach all have wacky ghost powers and it's not like they ever do anything except occasionally get disrobed. One piece follows the same formula, as does the majority of male-lead anime.
Having never seen the series that pictures from though, all I can really wonder is whether she's 14 with those things.
Point, and I refuse to watch Naruto.
Hmm.... Looking at Sekirei, the female cast very rarely gets 'rescued' (in the manga they do way more rescuing then getting rescued) There are two points where that could be argued that he does save them in some manner. The series does absolutely ooze fanservice, however. Mutsubi, the more or less main female character in the picture above, is a super strong invulnerable type, who tends to forget her clothes are neither, having been raised in a laboratory and had to be taught was 'modesty' was. She's still working on it...
It's pointed out in the manga but not in the anime that if the male main character is killed, they 'lose' the game, so that could be the sexist point. The relationship between the women and the men is a little ODD however...
I hate it when I'm the golden snitch and everyone else is a super powered engine of destruction motivated to kill me or die themselves...
ShumaGorath wrote:
It wouldn't be so bad if the vast majority of anime wasn't hilariously sexist.
Anime doesn't strike as that much more sexist than the media in general (which I'll admit, isn't saying much as the media is horribly sexist for the most part). It is annoying though.
If we're talking counterexamples though, Serei no Moribitio comes to mind instantly. It's not only just awesome in general, it manages to have one of the best female leads I've seen in a series.
I can't say I've sen that one but I'll check it out.
Slayers gets my vote for the anti-sexist one though. Lina makes it absolutely clear who the protagonist of the series is (by destroying an entire village), and Gourry is very clearly the heroic moron.
BaronIveagh wrote:I can't say I've sen that one but I'll check it out.
Slayers gets my vote for the anti-sexist one though. Lina makes it absolutely clear who the protagonist of the series is (by destroying an entire village), and Gourry is very clearly the heroic moron.
EDIT: (While I've not seen that, from your description I'm not really convinced).
Except I can't say that "Counts". On it's own it might not mean much, but as a part of a bigger pattern in media only having [heroic/component/intelligent/powerful] females when the equivalent male cast members are [cowardly/incompetent/stupid/powerless] just serves to send the message "Yeah a woman can do okay!!....... If a real man isn't around." Being portrayed favorably to some kind of useless bum doesn't mean much Being portrayed favorably or equally to a male or males that are portrayed as generally competent, intelligent or otherwise useful means a lot more in a male-dominated culture.
ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, the first FMA anime was nice. The only useless girls fawning over the male characters and being "protected" were rose and winry, and both of them had counterpoints in lust and hawkeye. The new series doesn't do so well in this regard, but it's still not bad. It would be nice if any of the shonen jump series weren't just male power fantasies with absolutely useless female "support" casts though.
The newer FMA is just a load of crap, honestly. I've heard that it is more like the manga, but still. They did the animation to Brotherhood poorly compared to the original. I wouldn't say Winry is useless, but I will admit that she doesn't do very much other than repair his arm and leg a few times.
BaronIveagh wrote:I can't say I've sen that one but I'll check it out.
Slayers gets my vote for the anti-sexist one though. Lina makes it absolutely clear who the protagonist of the series is (by destroying an entire village), and Gourry is very clearly the heroic moron.
EDIT: (While I've not seen that, from your description I'm not really convinced).
Except I can't say that "Counts". On it's own it might not mean much, but as a part of a bigger pattern in media only having [heroic/component/intelligent/powerful] females when the equivalent male cast members are [cowardly/incompetent/stupid/powerless] just serves to send the message "Yeah a woman can do okay!!....... If a real man isn't around." Being portrayed favorably to some kind of useless bum doesn't mean much Being portrayed favorably or equally to male or males that are portrayed as generally competent, intelligent or otherwise useful means a lot more in a male-dominated culture.
...hmm... no, other then Gourry most of the male cast is fairly sharp (in the case of Zelgadis, a literal statement) and the majority of her foes are men, who have varying degrees of competence. (We're leaving out a dark god or several, but...)
Note: in anything that takes place 'before' Lina meets Gourry, Lina's first sidekick is Naga (who's not as dumb as Gourry, but is very much not a sharpest blade in the scabbard either). How these two parted ways is something of a 'noodle incedent' among the fanbase.
However, those are her skull adorned breasts we see bouncing in some of the videos above, and is dressed down by Lina in their first meeting due to her clothing. "The 'evil sorceress' look went out of style a few centuries back..."
I'd recommend watching it (TV series first, even though it's out of order chronologically, the movies need the TV series to make sense). I think you'll see my point.
Edit: found the season 1-2 dubs on youtube. they're the dubs, with Lisa Ortiz as Lina, so gird your ears and pray that you find the subtitles sometime with Megumi Hayashibara.
Ghost in the Shell- SAC, and SAC Second gig are pretty awesome. Sadly, alot of people cant follow the story line since theyre used to simple plot formats that include a 5 minute section of 'Previously on ....' that reminds them whats going on.
I'll also point out the OP is like 14, so likely doesnt have much knowledge of what he hates or what the word even really means.
Like Luna mentioned, anime is just a medium of communication. Some stories are better told in that medium than others. Although the kid in me would love and updated version of Macross/Robotech done live action CGI style in the hands of someone like JJ Abrams (and minus Minmei).
I thoroughly enjoyed Appleseed (the anime crossed with CGI flick). The animation was well done and the CGI was well done as well. Not Squaresoft gorgeous (to this day NOTHING holds a candle to the eyegasm that is the CGI in FF13, not even Avatar) but looked good nonetheless.
Appleseed is in the same 'reality' as Ghost in the Shell, just farther in the future. Arimaki did a good job with both of the Appleseed flicks though.
The budget differences between anime and the big budget video games is where you're going to see the differences in CGI though.
Give Kamiyama(recent Ghost in the shell director) or Arimaki a similar budget to work with as the games companies have and Im sure they could wow us with whats possible
True. Though Square really seems to know no limits. I was wowed by FFX and FFX-2 CGI (never did play 11 or 12 but I think those were online so not even sure they had cgi) but FF13 had me hurrying through the zones and boss fights just to see the next cutscene.
I would have probably nerdgasmed in my pants had I been playing it on a HD monitor larger than 20" (my computer monitor is the only HD output device I have).
lol Yeah, a freind of mine hits a save point before all the cool CG scenes. Once he gets them all I go watch on his Nerdmatron LED HD rig. Square does seem to keep redefining the limits- but then look at the stuff like Avatar. The CGI/reality lines are getting pretty blurry these days- which is cool as it opens the doors for so many stories that are just waiting to be told in a way more true to thier intent.
Mistress of minis wrote:Like Luna mentioned, anime is just a medium of communication. Some stories are better told in that medium than others. Although the kid in me would love and updated version of Macross/Robotech done live action CGI style in the hands of someone like JJ Abrams (and minus Minmei).
Agreed, except on Minmei. While I hate her too, she has to be their to show just how much Rick changes throughout the series.
Fateweaver wrote:True. Though Square really seems to know no limits. I was wowed by FFX and FFX-2 CGI (never did play 11 or 12 but I think those were online so not even sure they had cgi) but FF13 had me hurrying through the zones and boss fights just to see the next cutscene.
I would have probably nerdgasmed in my pants had I been playing it on a HD monitor larger than 20" (my computer monitor is the only HD output device I have).
Sqenix' CG is usually fairly simplistic. It's high detail but low polycount and they don't usually pay much attention to kinimatics or breaking edge particle effects. Theres a reason final fantasy the spirits within looked a dozen times better than final fantasy advent children (despite coming out years earlier), the more direct control the studio itself actually has the worse the cg ends up looking. They employ fantastic artists though so it rarely ends up being an issue visually.
Give Kamiyama(recent Ghost in the shell director) or Arimaki a similar budget to work with as the games companies have and Im sure they could wow us with whats possible
It's possible, but 3d animation is one area where the west has a significant advantage in both training and skill. Its unlikely they would do anything that major western motion pictures haven't already explored.
I am suprised it took three pages for someone to mention Ghost In The Shell as a defence of anime. It is a masterful apology for the rather lacklustre genre.
One or two other series have their moments, and I did rather like Last Exile, but generally its a load of crud. Still Ghost' is so good it makes it impossible for me to press ther 'Yes' button, though nothing can make me say 'No' to that question when asked.
Aww, come on. Love Drama can be interesting, at least when when it's given central focus instead of being a tacked on afterthought to shooty-shooty-explosions and the like. Honey & Clover and Emma are two series I really enjoyed.
Aww, come on. Love Drama can be interesting, at least when when it's given central focus instead of being a tacked on afterthought to shooty-shooty-explosions and the like. Honey & Clover and Emma are two series I really enjoyed.
Depends. Robotech did the Love Triangle thing right, but I didn't really care for it in Naruto (though that was more squarish). I suppose the fact that it's been done in so many has killed it for me.
Ghost in the Shell, notably the series (Stand Alone Complex & 2nd gig) does alot of character development. Theres several ongoing sort of mini plots that are cosntant but dont distract from the main story. Theres always the hint of a romance between Motoko and Batou, but they always seem to awkwardly avoid it( but theres still a definite love between them).
Im also surprised that no one has mentioned Trigun. Aside from its moments of goofy humor(which they likely used to keep it from turning too dark and scaring kiddies) it was an enjoyable watch with good storyline.
And, the classic Akira. Its animation is getting a bit dated, but its a nice bit of nostalgia for some of us.
Aww, come on. Love Drama can be interesting, at least when when it's given central focus instead of being a tacked on afterthought to shooty-shooty-explosions and the like. Honey & Clover and Emma are two series I really enjoyed.
Depends. Robotech did the Love Triangle thing right, but I didn't really care for it in Naruto (though that was more squarish). I suppose the fact that it's been done in so many has killed it for me.
Eh, I guess. I think it's very different beast when it's done straight up rather than as a small part of a series with an entirely different focus. Apples to Oranges... Oranges from the moon. Then again, maybe I'm just a sucker for Romance/Drama.
A lot of anime finales are actually really, really epic. Cowboy Bebop and Trigun are both high on the list, and I can think of lots of other series that have incredible endings (to name a few, GetBackers, Full Metal Panic! and Fullmetal Alchemist).
And for shame - only one mention of Miyazaki's films. Castle in the Sky was absolutely epic, and the scene at the end of Kiki's Delivery Service (when Kiki finally regains her powers just in time to save her friend) was very tense. And I know it wasn't a Miyazaki film, but Grave of the Fireflies was a serious tearjerker, with a kind of chilling final line.
Oh, and at the OP (sorry, just wanted to post this one):
Ghost in the shell tackles the tough question of what truly constitutes life and sentience.
If you like high art Anime then here are some movies for one to check out:
1)Akira
2)Ghost in The Shell
3)Ghost in the Shell 2
4)Jin Roh-The Wolf Brigade (This one is very interesting in how it is set in an alternate time-line to our present as opposed to the future or Japans Fuedal past.)
5)Cowboy Beebop- The Movie
It is hard for some to understand that these movies fall into the same genre as Sailor Moon or Pokemon. You have to explain Chibi vs the stuff geared for higher intellect to peoplr for them to understand.
As far as TV series go:
Star Blazers- Crappy animation but great space opera(A personal favorite).
Tri-gun- Occasional Chibi scenes but both amusing and tackles the concept of self defined moral codes and the need for balance.
Original Robotech- Could be argued that without this series 40K would not be the same game
Mistress of minis wrote:Im also surprised that no one has mentioned Trigun. Aside from its moments of goofy humor(which they likely used to keep it from turning too dark and scaring kiddies) it was an enjoyable watch with good storyline.
Desert punk is better . IMO of course.
And, the classic Akira. Its animation is getting a bit dated, but its a nice bit of nostalgia for some of us.
It was ahead of it's time, so it has a solid run left in it.
Spirited Away was a little more kid oriented, but artistically was an achievement I haven't seen since Fantasia.
And GitS did have that one ep with the military tank that gets stolen. While we don't actually see it do that, it's probably capable of leveling the street.
And the puppetmaster could be conceivably refereed to as a would be robot overlord. The exact nature of it's plan was never really revealed. Shirow wanders off into some deeply religious and philosophical territory edging transhumanism in the end of the first manga, which led to a lot of people saying 'HUH?'.
Best IMHO:
1: Record of Lodoss War
2: Gokusen (it's short, weird, and funny)
3: Mononoke-hime
4: Spirited Away (lower on list due to nature of movie)
5: Naussica (non US butchered edition)
6: Ghost in the Shell
7: Slayers (New! Season 4! At last, after 12 years!)
8: Hellsing OVA (the TV series is crap. Caution: think Dracula meets James Bond)
9: Witch Hunter Robin (A must for anyone who plays Inquisition)
10: Black Lagoon (has some rather over the top elements but no robots or love triangles)
And GitS did have that one ep with the military tank that gets stolen. While we don't actually see it do that, it's probably capable of leveling the street.
Yep, SAC season one, episode 4 I believe. A military 'think tank' that had a ghost implanted and was trying to go home.
Another good series that got cut short was Berserk.
Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
I used to be more open minded about anime but after seeing enough to make a decision about it I came to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of it is simply awful. I can even give a few reasons for my opinion: (note that while not all anime posses these traits most posses one or more)
1. The charachters do not behave realistically: they go from slaughtering people/monsters to going hysterical over candy or ramen. It would be like watching john mcclain gun down six bad guys in Die Hard then throwing a tantrum and crying when he finds out his ex changed her name back. 2.too predictable. you know how the hero is going to win it's just a matter of time before they go "super saiyan" or unleash their inner demon or form voltron. obviously this applies mostly to the shounen(?) ones but I've seen it elsewhere as well. 3.admittedly this one is strictly my opinion but they depart too much from reality. I understand the concept of suspension of disbelief but they will ignore gravity for no reason other than they are in the middle of a fight and they think it looks cool or cut a airship in half with sword. or they will drastically change the direction of the story when they have several episodes of a series where everything seems more or less ordinary and then something happens and you can't help wondering if you're even watching the same show.Akira was a prime example of this with the giant blob at the end I couldn't figure out why people liked that show so much.
Other reasons include nonsensical premises, poor translation and/or voice acting, and kiddie heroes in an adult world.
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Not all the women in anime are the 'jiggling mammary whiny please let them die already' variety.
Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell)
Faye Valentine (Comboy Bebop)
Miriya Sterling (Robotech)
Nausicca (of the valley of the wind)
Deunan (Appleseed)
Theres bunches more I cant think of off the top of my head.
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Major General Armstrongs sister only shows up one time in the older FMA. Curtis never really is developed either. Lust and Sloth were pretty cool, though Hawkeye was my favorite girl in that series. My favorite character definately had to have been Greed though. He was just awesome. I think the only character I hated was Tucker, but your kinda supposed to hate him.
@Mistress of Minis: Yeah I'm kinda surprised I didn't mention Vash either. Legato was awesome, so was Wolfward. What I didn't understand was if Knives hated humans and had THAT kind of firepower, why didn't he just go on a killing spree?
This way of posting has been passed down the Armstrong Line for GENERATIONS!
Just saw Boondocks season three episode "The Red Ball" last night.
Really really Americanized anime. If your the kind of person to run away from corrupted forms of American-Japanese influenced animation (or where the people who draw the cartoons are), then there is something to hate in that too.
I personally laughed at that more than I did Adult Swim's episode of Family Guy they had on last night.
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Major General Armstrongs sister only shows up one time in the older FMA. Curtis never really is developed either. Lust and Sloth were pretty cool, though Hawkeye was my favorite girl in that series. My favorite character definately had to have been Greed though. He was just awesome. I think the only character I hated was Tucker, but your kinda supposed to hate him.
@Mistress of Minis: Yeah I'm kinda surprised I didn't mention Vash either. Legato was awesome, so was Wolfward. What I didn't understand was if Knives hated humans and had THAT kind of firepower, why didn't he just go on a killing spree?
This way of posting has been passed down the Armstrong Line for GENERATIONS!
Something tells me you've only seen the original series of FMA....
Basically, roundabouts where Greed and his crew get done in, the original manga, and the original anime diverged, because the anime had caught up to the manga. That was why it ended so badly, and the plot just tailed off. However, the manga has a completely different storyline that's about five times better. About six months ago, they started redoing the anime to follow the manga storyline. It's called Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.
In the proper storyline, Izumi gets a much larger role. Not only that, they introduce another of Armstrongs sisters, Major General Armstrong. She's deadly in a fight, cold, and ruthless. Think Ice Queen style. She also challenges Armstrong to a fight to inherit their fathers mansion, and actually physically beats the crap out of him and wins.
Wraithlordmechanic wrote:I used to be more open minded about anime but after seeing enough to make a decision about it I came to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of it is simply awful.
I can even give a few reasons for my opinion: (note that while not all anime posses these traits most posses one or more)
1. The charachters do not behave realistically: they go from slaughtering people/monsters to going hysterical over candy or ramen. It would be like watching john mcclain gun down six bad guys in Die Hard then throwing a tantrum and crying when he finds out his ex changed her name back.
2.too predictable. you know how the hero is going to win it's just a matter of time before they go "super saiyan" or unleash their inner demon or form voltron. obviously this applies mostly to the shounen(?) ones but I've seen it elsewhere as well.
3.admittedly this one is strictly my opinion but they depart too much from reality. I understand the concept of suspension of disbelief but they will ignore gravity for no reason other than they are in the middle of a fight and they think it looks cool or cut a airship in half with sword. or they will drastically change the direction of the story when they have several episodes of a series where everything seems more or less ordinary and then something happens and you can't help wondering if you're even watching the same show.Akira was a prime example of this with the giant blob at the end I couldn't figure out why people liked that show so much.
Other reasons include nonsensical premises, poor translation and/or voice acting, and kiddie heroes in an adult world.
There is a ton of a good anime that doesn't even invovle "Heros" or "Bad Guys", with swords guns or anything of that nature. I don't think you're honestly qualified to make statements about "Most" anime if you're talking about elements not even found in most genres of anime.
Chongara wrote:
There is a ton of a good anime that doesn't even invovle "Heros" or "Bad Guys"
Would you feel better if he had used the terms antagonist and protagonist instead? Or is it time for SEMANTIC FIGHTING TO GO OVER 9000!?!?!?!?!?!?
Not really. The words have different connotations. You also can't ignore context , he was using the words in relation to 1) "Slaughtering people/monsters" 2) "slicing airships in half". 3) "ignoring gravity in the middle of a fight." It seemed clear to me at least, that in the post I quoted "Good Guy" was being used to mean "Protagonist in an action-oriented story that is depicted as holding moral high ground, who fights quite literally and physically the "Bad Guy" antagonist".
While it's certainly fine not to like the elements he is describing it's still not fair to ascribe them to "most" anime, when a great many don't even contain so much as a single fight scene, or even conflicts where someone is clearly holding the moral high ground.
It's like hearing a handful rap songs and suddenly feeling qualified to talk about "most" music of every type from classical to metal and polka.
I disagree with just about everything you said. Most anime does have those things in comparison to the ones that do not. Sure there is a bit of exaggeration there to make the point but the reality is that the great majority of anime is a male adolescent power trip with busty chicks and super weapons regardless of whether it they are swords or orbital lasers. The philosophical underpinnings also tend to be a mile wide and an inch deep. They pseudo-philosophical musings that don't stand up to serious scrutiny and are of the type that appeal to younger people. Now this obliviously doesn't account for the entirety of anime, as I said before, becuase there is some out there that is the opposite in many ways.
You seem to be holding a myopic view where you are just seeing what you want to see in anime and using at a justification for it's defense. Most of it does have a hero/villian, most of it does involve conflict with a moral high ground. Most of it does have a fight scene of some sort contained within. The ones that don't are the exception, not the rule. Even so, there are still good ones that fall into that pattern and bad ones that don't. Just meeting or be anathema to the mainstream anime tropes doesn't determine the quality of any given story.
Now I'm only going off my 30 years of anime watching and degrees in studying Eastern culture and history, and you don't have to agree at all, but I am, of course quite correct, as usual.
Well there are a lot of people here whop appreciate high art anime, and none, other than myself has mentioned Last Exile. Methinks there are some quality animation buffs who might appreciate a link or two.
Its gothic steampunk anime, so with al l the 40K players here it shopuld go down well.
Saucer eyes are kept to a minimum, sailor suit girls do turn up in moderation though it does go offscale. Still flying gothic battleships with outriggers fitted with giant chainsaws have something to be said for them, Last Exile out Imperiums the Imperium.
...then you have ones with ambiguous morality like the second Vampire Hunter D movie, Appleseed (In the manga moreso then the anime), Blade of the Immortal, Cyber City Oedo 808, Bubblegum Crisis (moreso the original then the later series), Those who Hunt Elves (being the most morally ambiguous comedy I've ever seen. 'Yes, we'll save your village, but afterward you have to strip naked!"), Pandora Hearts (to a degree), Black Lagoon (the cast seems to have heard of morality at some point, but it's a vague concept to everyone but Rock)and Witch Hunter Robin...
ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, the first FMA anime was nice. The only useless girls fawning over the male characters and being "protected" were rose and winry, and both of them had counterpoints in lust and hawkeye. The new series doesn't do so well in this regard, but it's still not bad. It would be nice if any of the shonen jump series weren't just male power fantasies with absolutely useless female "support" casts though.
The newer FMA is just a load of crap, honestly. I've heard that it is more like the manga, but still. They did the animation to Brotherhood poorly compared to the original. I wouldn't say Winry is useless, but I will admit that she doesn't do very much other than repair his arm and leg a few times.
HERESY.
Poor animation...? Really? Compare it to standards your usual main stream shonen anime and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Also, FMA is one of those few anime that doesn't suffer DBZ syndrom.
As for anime in general, I mostly avoid the overly cheery stuff.
focusedfire wrote:@Baron- 'Ya think we should warn those whom are uninitiated to such about hentai?
Those Who Hunt Elves was not, strictly speaking, Hentai. Since if I recall correctly, you never actually see anything other then butts. For those looking for hentai, go watch either Ogenki Clinic or Bible Black. That ought to cure what ails you!
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Yes, I know, thats why when I as the only person to say something similar to what you're ranting against said that they had a few crying pairs of boobs with no real active role in the show except to allow the hero to save them I noted that there was another female character doing the opposite.
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Yes, I know, thats why when I as the only person to say something similar to what you're ranting against said that they had a few crying pairs of boobs with no real active role in the show except to allow the hero to save them I noted that there was another female character doing the opposite.
I think you're agreeing with me, but the lack of punctuation makes it difficult to be sure.....
chromedog wrote:They were the ONLY good giant-robo stories.
Every gundam series after this is made of fail.
I loved Gurren Lagaan.
Something tells me you've only seen the original series of FMA....
Basically, roundabouts where Greed and his crew get done in, the original manga, and the original anime diverged, because the anime had caught up to the manga. That was why it ended so badly, and the plot just tailed off. However, the manga has a completely different storyline that's about five times better. About six months ago, they started redoing the anime to follow the manga storyline. It's called Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.
Hahahaha No. The series restart has by far the inferior storyline. It has bigger fights, more colorful enemies, and is about as thin as air.
In the proper storyline, Izumi gets a much larger role. Not only that, they introduce another of Armstrongs sisters, Major General Armstrong. She's deadly in a fight, cold, and ruthless. Think Ice Queen style. She also challenges Armstrong to a fight to inherit their fathers mansion, and actually physically beats the crap out of him and wins.
A fight that she wins for no reason other than to win it. She punches him through walls (how?) into the sky (how?) gets him in headlocks (how?) and a dozen other things. Thats not good storytelling, she was barely in the first series because she should have been an ancillary character that leads a faction of the military. As for Izumi getting a larger role, that has not yet materialized, and given the heavy involvement she had in the first series I question when it will.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Ketara wrote:Just to those who were moaning about the women in FMA:-
Have you actually seen Major General Armstrong? You know, the woman who physically beats the crap out of her muscular brother, then drags him back for more? Or Izumi Curtis, who smacks so many characters around, it's ridiculous? I swear, regardless of sexism being prevalent in anime or not, there isn't much in FMA.
Yes, I know, thats why when I as the only person to say something similar to what you're ranting against said that they had a few crying pairs of boobs with no real active role in the show except to allow the hero to save them I noted that there was another female character doing the opposite.
I think you're agreeing with me, but the lack of punctuation makes it difficult to be sure.....
Actually I was telling you not to disagree with me when you agree with me. I posted before you.
Hahahaha No. The series restart has by far the inferior storyline. It has bigger fights, more colorful enemies, and is about as thin as air.
I could say something about subjectivity, but did you ever actually consider the number of plotholes in that crappy animators on the fly storyline? I could go into huge amounts of detail on it, but suffice to say, the way homunculus were meant to be killed, from the bad guys true identity, to hohenheim getting killed off, were all executed with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, that barely hung together. It was a barely credible, barely coherent storyline made up by people who write filler for naruto. If that's to your taste, fair play to you.
A fight that she wins for no reason other than to win it. She punches him through walls (how?) into the sky (how?) gets him in headlocks (how?) and a dozen other things. Thats not good storytelling, she was barely in the first series because she should have been an ancillary character that leads a faction of the military. As for Izumi getting a larger role, that has not yet materialized, and given the heavy involvement she had in the first series I question when it will.
Errr.......You're complaining about realism in a series that has people reconstructing radios by drawing magic circles on the ground? The whole joke about the Armstrong family is that everyone in it is strong even if they don't look it. That's where the other sister and her hobby of lifting the piano come from. I was commenting on how she was not a character portrayed in a sexist way. Whether you think a woman beating up a large muscleman is more realistic than people fusing dogs and children together using magic powers is no concern, or interest of mine.
And Izumi Curtis is one of the human sacrifices, so I'd say she's pretty major.
EDIT:- Major General Armstrong actually wasn't in the first series, because she hadn't been introduced in the manga at that point. You're thinking of Armstrong's younger sister, not his older one. And actually, the reason she won the fight was for comedy. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp, examining your thought process above.
I could say something about subjectivity, but did you ever actually consider the number of plotholes in that crappy animators on the fly storyline? I could go into huge amounts of detail on it, but suffice to say, the way homunculus were meant to be killed, from the bad guys true identity, to hohenheim getting killed off, were all executed with the subtlety of a sledgehammer, that barely hung together. It was a barely credible, barely coherent storyline made up by people who write filler for naruto. If that's to your taste, fair play to you.
Not all those complaints aren't justified, which just compounds how much worse the current series is.
Errr.......You're complaining about realism in a series that has people reconstructing radios by drawing magic circles on the ground?
No, I'm complaining about gakky writing.
The whole joke about the Armstrong family is that everyone in it is strong even if they don't look it. That's where the other sister and her hobby of lifting the piano come from. I
Yes and in the last series it was just that. A joke. In this series a major piece of plot hinges on it, which makes it less of a joke and more of another case of awful writing.
I was commenting on how she was not a character portrayed in a sexist way. Whether you think a woman beating up a large muscleman is more realistic than people fusing dogs and children together using magic powers is no concern, or interest of mine.
You were commenting on a conversation that never existed. Sorry for ignoring your complaints. I was talking about your insistence that the new series somehow holds up better than the old one (glad to see kimbly can summon a drachma army in less than a day to attack a heavily fortified position as the leader despite being from the country that they would attack. That makes sense).
And Izumi Curtis is one of the human sacrifices, so I'd say she's pretty major.
Not really.
EDIT:- Major General Armstrong actually wasn't in the first series, because she hadn't been introduced in the manga at that point. You're thinking of Armstrong's younger sister, not his older one. And actually, the reason she won the fight was for comedy. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp, examining your thought process above.
Comedy for comedies sake is fine. Comedy when major plot points hinges on the outcome of that comedy is not. If she just beat him up thats comedy, thats funny. She beat him up, got the estate, and launched a massive surprise military assault from it. Thats not comedy, thats gak writing based on an unrealistic and "comedic" happenstance. That is gak writing. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp.
Soladrin wrote:Ketara, why are you bothering to explain something to mister knows it all? His reputation should keep you out of these situations.
Why do you come into threads to tell people not to bother talking to me? I'm pretty sure I could be reporting you for all the times that you do it, but I really just want to know why. You rarely have anything useful to add to conversations so I can see the reasoning from a content perspective, but why just me? Dogma is a knowitall as is ahtman and reds8n.
Not all those complaints aren't justified, which just compounds how much worse the current series is.
No, I'm complaining about gakky writing.
Again, the point I just made about subjectivity springs to mind.....
Yes and in the last series it was just that. A joke. In this series a major piece of plot hinges on it, which makes it less of a joke and more of another case of awful writing.
Err........Hang on. Let me get this straight. Please clarify this for me. You thought that her storing a couple of troops underneath her dads mansion was a MAJOR piece of the plot? As opposed something like Wrath surviving, or the plan to turn the entire country into a giant stone? In that case, something like Greed/Lin not seeming to know how to solidify completely until his current fight with Wrath must positively have you foaming at the mouth, as well as being a MAJOR piece of the plot.
You seem to find it difficult to differentiate between a small plot device to allow the storyline to move forward and a 'major piece of plot' And if I'm wrong, and you can differentiate, then your getting so worked up about a small plot device to allow the storyline to move forward is at best, amusing.
I was commenting on how she was not a character portrayed in a sexist way. Whether you think a woman beating up a large muscleman is more realistic than people fusing dogs and children together using magic powers is no concern, or interest of mine.
You were commenting on a conversation that never existed. Sorry for ignoring your complaints.
Et tu brutus...?
A fight that she wins for no reason other than to win it. She punches him through walls (how?) into the sky (how?) gets him in headlocks (how?) and a dozen other things.
Your questioning of the physical mechanics led me to assume that was your issue with it. Don't blame me for your poorly thought out argument and miscommunication.
I was talking about your insistence that the new series somehow holds up better than the old one
Insistence? Yes. That's my personal opinion. What I find incredulous is that you hold a series as terrible as the original as somehow superior to the current. Care to give me a good five examples in how the original (which is to say, episodes 27-52, as the initial ones are identical), is superior. And in ways not entirely subjective please, or your opinion is no better than mine, and having judged it wanting, I can safely disregard it.
Comedy for comedies sake is fine. Comedy when major plot points hinges on the outcome of that comedy is not. If she just beat him up thats comedy, thats funny. She beat him up, got the estate, and launched a massive surprise military assault from it. Thats not comedy, thats gak writing based on an unrealistic and "comedic" happenstance. That is gak writing. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp.
Again, major...? Really...? If we're completely honest here, it didn't matter who got the estate, she would have bullied Alex around, and launched the attack from it anyway. The fight actually had NO REAL RELEVANCE other than comedy. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp....
Soladrin wrote:Ketara, why are you bothering to explain something to mister knows it all? His reputation should keep you out of these situations.
Why do you come into threads to tell people not to bother talking to me? I'm pretty sure I could be reporting you for all the times that you do it, but I really just want to know why. You rarely have anything useful to add to conversations so I can see the reasoning from a content perspective, but why just me? Dogma is a knowitall as is ahtman and reds8n.
Well, first, you left me out of the knowitall category, and second, frankly, if i didn't think it was a waste of time, I'd probably do the same thing...
Edit: Now that I've said that, I half expect fatebringer/kanwulen to suddenly appear and tell me how wrong I am.
Err........Hang on. Let me get this straight. Please clarify this for me. You thought that her storing a couple of troops underneath her dads mansion was a MAJOR piece of the plot? As opposed something like Wrath surviving, or the plan to turn the entire country into a giant stone? In that case, something like Greed/Lin not seeming to know how to solidify completely until his current fight with Wrath must positively have you foaming at the mouth, as well as being a MAJOR piece of the plot.
There can be multiple major plot points you know.
You seem to find it difficult to differentiate between a small plot device to allow the storyline to move forward and a 'major piece of plot' And if I'm wrong, and you can differentiate, then your getting so worked up about a small plot device to allow the storyline to move forward is at best, amusing.
You brought the instance up initially, there are a dozen minor and major other issues that could easily be brought up with as much or significantly more relevance.
Your questioning of the physical mechanics led me to assume that was your issue with it. Don't blame me for your poorly thought out argument and miscommunication.
I didn't have an issue when his sister was tossing pianos around in the first series because it was a joke. In this instance it is not a joke, it is a comedic event wherein there are necessary elements of the plot. The story is different specifically because of kawaii scary woman with big sharp teeth, that I take issue with.
Insistence? Yes. That's my personal opinion. What I find incredulous is that you hold a series as terrible as the original as somehow superior to the current. Care to give me a good five examples in how the original (which is to say, episodes 27-52, as the initial ones are identical), is superior. And in ways not entirely subjective please, or your opinion is no better than mine, and having judged it wanting, I can safely disregard it.
You yourself has stated that this is entirely subjective, how am I supposed to proclaim the first series superiority in non subjective terms?
Again, major...? Really...? If we're completely honest here, it didn't matter who got the estate, she would have bullied Alex around, and launched the attack from it anyway. The fight actually had NO REAL RELEVANCE other than comedy. A concept you seem to find hard to grasp....
How is she bullying around someone she can't beat up in the event that she can't beat him up? Their relationship is seemingly entirely predicated on the fact that he is both physically and mentally weak as compared to her. It is a dynamic that doesn't make any sense outside of the context of the funny mouse beating up the cat visual joke.
Really? You don't say? However, I was raising issue with the fact you seemed to regard the launching of the attack of from their parents house as one of them. I mean, it's hardly on the same level as 'Luke, I am your father!', is it?
You brought the instance up initially, there are a dozen minor and major other issues that could easily be brought up with as much or significantly more relevance.
That's correct. I brought up it up as an instance in which it could be said that FMA is not sexist, as it shows strong female characters. I never claimed it was an instance of the best writing since Tolkien. I never placed that strawman up for you to shoot down.
I didn't have an issue when his sister was tossing pianos around in the first series because it was a joke. In this instance it is not a joke, it is a comedic event wherein there are necessary elements of the plot. The story is different specifically because of kawaii scary woman with big sharp teeth, that I take issue with.
So you cannot have a comedic event within which there are elements of the plot? I'm afraid if that's all it takes to ruin a perfectly good series for you, then I can't imagine many that you would like. And as I've already said, I debate whether it was a 'necessary element' of the plot. They could have done exactly the same thing without the fight, they just chose to add it for comedic effect.
You yourself has stated that this is entirely subjective, how am I supposed to proclaim the first series superiority in non subjective terms?
Precisely my point. You claim you think the writing is terrible, I beg to differ. You have given your reasons as to why you think the writing is terrible, I have provided what I consider to be adequate rebuttals of your example. As it is ultimately subjective, to proclaim the writing terrible as if it were a fact, in the manner which you seemed to be doing, would be wrong.
How is she bullying around someone she can't beat up in the event that she can't beat him up? Their relationship is seemingly entirely predicated on the fact that he is both physically and mentally weak as compared to her. It is a dynamic that doesn't make any sense outside of the context of the funny mouse beating up the cat visual joke.
I would say she is mentally stronger than he is, looking at the two characters. She's far more ruthless, and even in their regular conversations, dominates him. Her physically triumphing over him is nothing more than another accentuation of that, albeit a slightly large one. But that gross exaggeration is for comedic effect. And you know what? I laughed. As did a large number of anime fans I know. Therefore it clearly hit the intended audience, regardless of whether it made sense to you or not.
So you cannot have a comedic event within which there are elements of the plot? I'm afraid if that's all it takes to ruin a perfectly good series for you, then I can't imagine many that you would like. And as I've already said, I debate whether it was a 'necessary element' of the plot. They could have done exactly the same thing without the fight, they just chose to add it for comedic effect.
And I disliked this particular instance of that plot technique. Magical. Comedy, how the feth does it work?
Precisely my point. You claim you think the writing is terrible, I beg to differ. You have given your reasons as to why you think the writing is terrible, I have provided what I consider to be adequate rebuttals of your example. As it is ultimately subjective, to proclaim the writing terrible as if it were a fact, in the manner which you seemed to be doing, would be wrong.
But you're doing the exact same thing when you proclaim that the first series was far worse. You're like the pot calling the kettle black and I'm here thinking we're men not kitchen tools.
I would say she is mentally stronger than he is, looking at the two characters. She's far more ruthless, and even in their regular conversations, dominates him. Her physically triumphing over him is nothing more than another accentuation of that, albeit a slightly large one. But that gross exaggeration is for comedic effect. And you know what? I laughed. As did a large number of anime fans I know. Therefore it clearly hit the intended audience, regardless of whether it made sense to you or not.
I dislike the fact that a plot point hinged on a visual joke that didn't make logical sense within the constraints of the storyline (note how in the fight with sloth the brother is now suddenly significantly stronger than the sister). The fight was amusing, the aftermath was headscratching.
Chongara wrote:
There is a ton of a good anime that doesn't even invovle "Heros" or "Bad Guys", with swords guns or anything of that nature. I don't think you're honestly qualified to make statements about "Most" anime if you're talking about elements not even found in most genres of anime.
You'll notice I made the disclaimer that not all anime had all those traits and it seems to me that most of those with no discernible good guy/ bad guy still earn my ire for one of the other things I mentioned; even if it's just bad translation (admittedly that's probably my most petty complaint).
And I disliked this particular instance of that plot technique. Magical. Comedy, how the feth does it work?
Fair enough. YMMV.
But you're doing the exact same thing when you proclaim that the first series was far worse. You're like the pot calling the kettle black and I'm here thinking we're men not kitchen tools.
Oh, I know I'm doing the exact same thing. I was simply expressing my opinion on why I thought the first series was bad, and the second was better. I never claimed to be right. Just my humble opinion, as it were. You believe the writing terrible, I believe the writing of the original five times worse. We clearly seek different things from the program, as is demonstrated from the points below and above. However, considering you conceded the writing was terrible in the original as well, it makes me wonder why you bothered watching so far in this series as to know the plot point we're currently discussing.
I dislike the fact that a plot point hinged on a visual joke that didn't make logical sense within the constraints of the storyline (note how in the fight with sloth the brother is now suddenly significantly stronger than the sister). The fight was amusing, the aftermath was headscratching.
It's not that unrealistic when you think about it. Armstrong, being a moral character, would never unleash his alchemy upon his sister, to try and wound her. His sister, having no such compunctions, and being just as strong, beat the crap out of him because of his restraint. Sound more realistic now? And as I've said twice now, the plot did not hinge upon it. The plot could easily have proceeded without it with a minor tweak to the scene. All that happens is a piece of comedy occurred that you did not find funny, and as such, you respect the writing of the series less for it. That's perfectly understandable. YMMV.
However, I would say that just because you personally did not get it, does not necessarily make the series writing terrible. I would say that the fact most people laughed at that scene and similar ones evidence that the writing was perfectly adapted for the audience it was targeted it. People with your sense of humour, are clearly not that target audience. Would you slate Teletubbies for having a less than compulsive storyline? I see the situations as identical.
However, considering you conceded the writing was terrible in the original as well, it makes me wonder why you bothered watching so far in this series as to know the plot point we're currently discussing.
Actually I conceded that some points were valid. It doesn't have a small asian girl walking 200 miles in a single day after deciding she didn't want to go home (Because, y'know, she was going to make it across a hundred mile stretch of desert alone with no supplies a SECOND time). I think the writing in the first series was fairly sharp. It was far more grounded than the manga.
It's not that unrealistic when you think about it. Armstrong, being a moral character, would never unleash his alchemy upon his sister, to try and wound her.
He wouldn't need to. He is three times her size at minimum.
His sister, having no such compunctions, and being just as strong, beat the crap out of him because of his restraint.
But she isn't as strong as he is. She isn't the one punching a one tonne homunculous around like a beanbag. He is.
Sound more realistic now?
No. It's just writing around a joke, and it doesn't line up to how the character is portrayed. She is not strong, she's good with a sword and ruthless, she isn't throwing around painos and when she is placed into a fight that is strength dependent she starts to lose.
However, I would say that just because you personally did not get it, does not necessarily make the series writing terrible.
Don't tell me I "didn't get it". I'm not the one here defending an instance of bad writing. It's precisely because I "Got it" that I didn't like it. I don't just look away because it's "as the writer intended" like you do.
I would say that the fact most people laughed at that scene and similar ones evidence that the writing was perfectly adapted for the audience it was targeted it. People with your sense of humour, are clearly not that target audience.
See, this is the thing. This is why you shouldn't be telling me I don't get it. You don't get it. I didn't mind the scene. I didn't even care when it occured. What I dislike is that plot hinged on what should have been a light comedic scene with no consequences. Because plot hinged on it then the scene suddenly has to stand up as a plot point, which it does not. Thats the issue I take, and it's something you seemingly don't understand given what appears to be your black and white perception of what constitutes comedy and writing.
Would you slate Teletubbies for having a less than compulsive storyline? I see the situations as identical.
And thats why I'm done talking about this with you. You're incapable of doing so.
There should be rules against logic in Anime/Manga threads.
Slarg: The amination in Brotherhood is alot better then the Original FMA series. The Original FMA anime series was pretty weak,but still a great series, the whole "other universe" thing was pretty "meh" In my iopinion. Brotherhood is alot better, espically with Hohenheiman (spell?) and his immortality thing.
Lord-Loss wrote:There should be rules against logic in Anime/Manga threads.
Slarg: The amination in Brotherhood is alot better then the Original FMA series. The Original FMA anime series was pretty weak,but still a great series, the whole "other universe" thing was pretty "meh" In my iopinion. Brotherhood is alot better, espically with Hohenheiman (spell?) and his immortality thing.
The wild success of the first series likely secured them a much bigger animation budget for the remake.
And thats why I'm done talking about this with you. You're incapable of doing so.
So to conclude, you think that it can't be the fact that the series isn't to your taste, but that the series HAS to be bad because you didn't like it?
In that case, then yes, certainly. There's no point in discussing something with someone who think subjectivity is something that only applies to other people.
The funny thing is, I never even said I even liked the series. I only mentioned that I thought it was 5 times better than the original, whilst explaining why I thought sexism was not prevalent in it. Instead, I got a page long debate on Shuma's dislike of a plot twist. Ah interwebz! How I love thee so!
So to conclude, you think that it can't be the fact that the series isn't to your taste, but that the series HAS to be bad because you didn't like it?
In that case, then yes, certainly. There's no point in discussing something with someone who think subjectivity is something that only applies to other people.
You're the one making half cocked teletubby comparisons and telling me "I don't get it". Manage a better tone in your arguments and people will think there is substance in them.
The funny thing is, I never even said I even liked the series. I only mentioned that I thought it was 5 times better than the original, whilst explaining why I thought sexism was not prevalent in it. Instead, I got a page long debate on Shuma's dislike of a plot twist. Ah interwebz! How I love thee so!
You know what's even funnier? I never said I didn't like the series. You told me I didn't. Repeatedly. Then used that as your seemingly only defense of the "subjective opinion" based discussion. I do like it. It's cool and has big explosions.
This is why I cut off the argument at hand. You were straw manning and claiming hidden concrete knowledge then claiming my points were irrelevant because of the subjective nature of the discussion. You can't just say "Nah nah no one can be right" then compare my opinions to bizarre telletubby examples and claim that I "don't get it" when "The majority of people thought subject x was y".
So to conclude, you think that it can't be the fact that the series isn't to your taste, but that the series HAS to be bad because you didn't like it?
In that case, then yes, certainly. There's no point in discussing something with someone who think subjectivity is something that only applies to other people.
You're the one making half cocked teletubby comparisons and telling me "I don't get it". Manage a better tone in your arguments and people will think there is substance in them.
The funny thing is, I never even said I even liked the series. I only mentioned that I thought it was 5 times better than the original, whilst explaining why I thought sexism was not prevalent in it. Instead, I got a page long debate on Shuma's dislike of a plot twist. Ah interwebz! How I love thee so!
You know what's even funnier? I never said I didn't like the series. You told me I didn't. Repeatedly. Then used that as your seemingly only defense of the "subjective opinion" based discussion. I do like it. It's cool and has big explosions.
This is why I cut off the argument at hand. You were straw manning and claiming hidden concrete knowledge then claiming my points were irrelevant because of the subjective nature of the discussion. You can't just say "Nah nah no one can be right" then compare my opinions to bizarre telletubby examples and claim that I "don't get it" when "The majority of people thought subject x was y".
I'm sorry, I thought you were finished talking with me sir? I seem to have a certain image to hand which I believe explains this one....
I'm surrounded by anime all of the time. Even my bank card has some dozy cartoon A hole on it. "It sucks" might be a sweeping comment, but a good 99.99% of it does. The stuff that goes overseas like DragonballZ, Naruto, Hokuto no ken (haaaaaa-taaaaaah), Robotech, etc, is the best stuff. For every "awesome" anime there are about 10,000 that are unwatchable gak.
So to conclude, you think that it can't be the fact that the series isn't to your taste, but that the series HAS to be bad because you didn't like it?
In that case, then yes, certainly. There's no point in discussing something with someone who think subjectivity is something that only applies to other people.
You're the one making half cocked teletubby comparisons and telling me "I don't get it". Manage a better tone in your arguments and people will think there is substance in them.
The funny thing is, I never even said I even liked the series. I only mentioned that I thought it was 5 times better than the original, whilst explaining why I thought sexism was not prevalent in it. Instead, I got a page long debate on Shuma's dislike of a plot twist. Ah interwebz! How I love thee so!
You know what's even funnier? I never said I didn't like the series. You told me I didn't. Repeatedly. Then used that as your seemingly only defense of the "subjective opinion" based discussion. I do like it. It's cool and has big explosions.
This is why I cut off the argument at hand. You were straw manning and claiming hidden concrete knowledge then claiming my points were irrelevant because of the subjective nature of the discussion. You can't just say "Nah nah no one can be right" then compare my opinions to bizarre telletubby examples and claim that I "don't get it" when "The majority of people thought subject x was y".
I'm sorry, I thought you were finished talking with me sir? I seem to have a certain image to hand which I believe explains this one....
So to conclude, you think that it can't be the fact that the series isn't to your taste, but that the series HAS to be bad because you didn't like it?
In that case, then yes, certainly. There's no point in discussing something with someone who think subjectivity is something that only applies to other people.
You're the one making half cocked teletubby comparisons and telling me "I don't get it". Manage a better tone in your arguments and people will think there is substance in them.
The funny thing is, I never even said I even liked the series. I only mentioned that I thought it was 5 times better than the original, whilst explaining why I thought sexism was not prevalent in it. Instead, I got a page long debate on Shuma's dislike of a plot twist. Ah interwebz! How I love thee so!
You know what's even funnier? I never said I didn't like the series. You told me I didn't. Repeatedly. Then used that as your seemingly only defense of the "subjective opinion" based discussion. I do like it. It's cool and has big explosions.
This is why I cut off the argument at hand. You were straw manning and claiming hidden concrete knowledge then claiming my points were irrelevant because of the subjective nature of the discussion. You can't just say "Nah nah no one can be right" then compare my opinions to bizarre telletubby examples and claim that I "don't get it" when "The majority of people thought subject x was y".
I'm sorry, I thought you were finished talking with me sir? I seem to have a certain image to hand which I believe explains this one....
So...what else do the OP hate?
I mean...it's like the same thing as saying:
"I hate books."
"I hate movies."
"I hate oogling at bewbs." Which IIRC is a healthy thing
I would report myself if I could, you guys with the report orgy, keep it going...maybe we'll see a modhammer land
Sanctjud wrote:I love it too, but this could be spam...
What do you guys think of the harem type anime?
I liked tenchi, but disliked love hina. Ah my goddess was neat. It works as a formulae, but it doesn't really survive on it's own merits. It needs to be an archtype that supports a plot rather than the plot itself.
Sanctjud wrote:So...what else do the OP hate?
I mean...it's like the same thing as saying:
"I hate books."
"I hate movies."
"I hate oogling at bewbs." Which IIRC is a healthy thing
I would report myself if I could, you guys with the report orgy, keep it going...maybe we'll see a modhammer land
Bolded is just blasphemy, man. Blasphemy.
Anyway, Yeah I've only seen the old FMA anime, but I think that's good enough. If it's the better version, Ignorance of the new one would be better. If it's the worse version, I am quite happy with not ruining my memories of it.
@ Shuma and Fate:
Ah here they go, here they go, here they go again!
I suggest watching it, just for the action scenes.
I think there was more badasserly going on.
I liked the mindless Love Hina though...just cause it was mindless. .
I liked Tenchi when it first came out...and then it just...sort of went on for too long IMO.
I generally treat Anime as any other soap opera/prime time show/series/etc. There is much more freedome with this medium...and alot less uptight.
Anything on US TV series that's not like HBO that is similar to Death Note? Anime goes into some deep/dark stuff......
I think that shuma and fate are both going to get banned or something soon. This is the second or third thread today that we've seen shuma and fate both making attacks.
*sigh* Can't we all just enjoy the Japanese cartoons with the big jiggling breasts?
Sanctjud wrote:So...what else do the OP hate?
I mean...it's like the same thing as saying:
"I hate books."
"I hate movies."
"I hate oogling at bewbs." Which IIRC is a healthy thing
I would report myself if I could, you guys with the report orgy, keep it going...maybe we'll see a modhammer land
Every one likes oogling at bewbs.Cept alpharies,hes G A Y.
I like anime the same way I like collecting GW and FW miniatures and models. I like some of it, but no way would I invest my whole being into it. Some stories, fluff, characters, authors, etc are great. Some are not so great, to the extent one could say they suck. Where my opinion falls now is true for both anime and miniature collecting/ gaming. All the best stuff is already out, and most of the new stuff is disappointing, but once in awhile something inspired comes along that allows me to admit to myself that I like anime, or I like table top war games, regardless of the genras' short comings as a whole.
pretty well said. my rule on anime is like my rule on tv. i look for shows that are different. as far as anime goes, i pretty much look for shows that don't involve high school, magical girls, and shonen heroes.
Actually, fraz has been talking about giving shuma a time out in other threads shuma has posted to today.
You know whats funny though? The moment I stopped posting was basically the same moment this thread stopped being on topic. The last on topic posts were mine and kornholios, after that you all managed to waste two pages talking about how I'm the one pulling these things away from their point. Also I'm not sure how this was particularly even, I had been on topic for several pages when fates post trolled me (and wasn't on topic).
Good job on wasting two pages being off topic by talking about me being off topic by the way.
If there was an answer that said "Some Of It". That would be it. There's only a handful of Animes I enjoyed, now that most of them are gone, there is the overly popular schlock out there now.
If you want something different to the status quo of amine, maybe heck out Detroit Metal City? It is very different to your regular show in both direction and content.
I like the artsy start to Elfen Lied...but when the killing started...
It was both awesome and...I felt like I should be appaulded...but... it just felt wierd after that...though still awesome.
back to the subject of harem animes. someone mentioned a zillion posts ago, that they didn't like Love Hina. I personally thought it was cute and funny. It's not one of my favorite animes, but I enjoyed it.
As far as FMA is concerned, i liked the original series a lot, and I'm enjoying Brotherhood. I really don't think the series is sexist. FMA is one of those series that makes me cry a lot. I haven't watched another episode of Brotherhood since the Nina episode. I already knew it was coming, and it still got to me. i am really not looking forward to the death of Hughes.
Anyway, taste is so subjective, and it seems in anime there is something for everyone just like regular tv. you just have to work harder to find it if you aren't looking for certain types of shows.
Spoilers: Almost everybody gets buddy, buddy at the end .
I find it funny that up until episode...what 50?
Lust and Envy are taken out by Mustang and only Mustang is the one with any useful kills.
He's just on a roll.
________
I thought the first FMA was more of a heart-wrentcher....Brotherhood....just doesn't measure up in that department IMO> Maybe it's just that I know what's up, but it's just not as demoralizing as the first as there is alot more 'hope' laced into Brotherhood I feel.
Sanctjud wrote:Spoilers: Almost everybody gets buddy, buddy at the end .
I find it funny that up until episode...what 50?
Lust and Envy are taken out by Mustang and only Mustang is the one with any useful kills.
He's just on a roll.
________
I thought the first FMA was more of a heart-wrentcher....Brotherhood....just doesn't measure up in that department IMO> Maybe it's just that I know what's up, but it's just not as demoralizing as the first as there is alot more 'hope' laced into Brotherhood I feel.
Thats cuz Mustang is awesome. I can't say I hate anyone in the series (except, of course, Tucker), and Greed and Mustang are just awesome. I just loved Mustangs line in the first one: "My first order of business when I become Furor? All Female officers must wear REALLY TINY MINISKIRTS!"
Haibane Renmei is an awesome series that has a large background though mysterious, cool plot and non-robot like characters. Just girls with little wings.
Karon wrote:I'm going to find time to start watching Bleach again from the start. I really liked that show.
I've already watched every episode of Naruto in english already, so I suppose its time for a change.
HERETIC.
Sorry, I just can't stand Dub's.
The bleach dubs aren't bad. The naruto ones are miserable. Some series do much better with them (Baccanno for instance) but yeah, dubbed naruto is cringe worthy. His voice is like a weapon.
Soladrin wrote:Well, I haven't even heard Bleach dubs, but I avoid Dubs unless I can't find any subbed version.
The only good dub is DBZ, because otherwise we wouldn't have some of those beauties on youtube... you know what I'm talking about.
Watch Bacanno dubbed. It's FAR better with english language accents. It's set in 30's gangland america, and without the accents half the impact of the lines are gone.
Soladrin wrote:Well, I haven't even heard Bleach dubs, but I avoid Dubs unless I can't find any subbed version.
The only good dub is DBZ, because otherwise we wouldn't have some of those beauties on youtube... you know what I'm talking about.
Watch Bacanno dubbed. It's FAR better with english language accents. It's set in 30's gangland america, and without the accents half the impact of the lines are gone.
Never heard of that series TBH. I'll look it up, thanks for the heads up mate.
Karon wrote:I'm going to find time to start watching Bleach again from the start. I really liked that show.
I've already watched every episode of Naruto in english already, so I suppose its time for a change.
HERETIC.
Sorry, I just can't stand Dub's.
They aren't all bad. Maybe I'm just used to 'em, though. Cowboy Bebop had some awesome voice work, and I personally preferred Trigun in English than in Japanese (Vash had a really goofy voice in Japanese IMO). And most Funimation stuff is well-done, though you'll start to notice that the same voice actors seem to be in every single series produced by them.
Only dub I couldn't stand was the Ouran High School Host Club one. Vic Mignogna was a poor choice for Tamaki, and I really hated that they picked two very different voices for Hikaru and Kaoru - at least in the Japanese version, when the two of them spoke at the same time, you couldn't tell that there was a difference, which was a huge plot point throughout the series.
The dub of Bebop was superior to the sub. The FMA dub was pretty good as is the one for Brotherhood. Bleach is ok, though i stopped watching that show a while ago. I'm not all that into anime that goes on forever.
Soladrin wrote:Well, I haven't even heard Bleach dubs, but I avoid Dubs unless I can't find any subbed version.
The only good dub is DBZ, because otherwise we wouldn't have some of those beauties on youtube... you know what I'm talking about.
Watch Bacanno dubbed. It's FAR better with english language accents. It's set in 30's gangland america, and without the accents half the impact of the lines are gone.
Never heard of that series TBH. I'll look it up, thanks for the heads up mate.
It won a couple of awards, it's one of the best anime I've seen and I've seen many. I caught it on hulu, but I think it's all on funimations site now.
Karon wrote:I'm going to find time to start watching Bleach again from the start. I really liked that show.
I've already watched every episode of Naruto in english already, so I suppose its time for a change.
HERETIC.
Sorry, I just can't stand Dub's.
The bleach dubs aren't bad. The naruto ones are miserable. Some series do much better with them (Baccanno for instance) but yeah, dubbed naruto is cringe worthy. His voice is like a weapon.
Most of the voice actors are the same, amusingly enough.
Chongara wrote:Could it be that you (along with a great deal many others) equate "Anime" with long-running Shounen fighting shows such as "Bleach", "Dragonball Z" and "Naruto"? They certainly enjoy an almost insane level of popularity and so tend to be what people not explicitly looking for other types of anime tend to form their opinions off of. However, it is still just one (fairly narrow) genre in a rather diverse media. Which isn't to really bash them either, I can certainly understand the appeal and when I'm in the right mood me and my inner 14 year old can get quite the kick out of them.
No, I have a number of friends who are in to anime, and while I do hate things like BDZ for the sheer mindnumbing padding that they put into that show, I dislike anime because of the animation style. Too many camera pans and zooms across still frames masquerading as actual animation for my liking. I know things have evolved, especially with the way computers can help them, but it doesn't make me enjoy the genre any more.
I do own Nedesco, which I put up with the animation because I like the story, and Full Metal Panic! is a good example of when they get over the standard anime animation style and start moving things besides the camera.
I also can stand the snobbery that comes with anime. "Oh I only ever watch it in the original Japanese" - no, feth you and your original Japanese. Who gives a feth what language it is in. Yes, older things had translation problems (Gundam is a good example - no adjectives for 'Enemy' AHHHHH!!), but I think we're past that. The only thing I will watch in Japanese is Transformers: Headmasters and that's only because the Dub is so bad it's almost a self-parody (anyone who's watched it will know what I'm speaking of).
Chongara wrote:It's certainly very possible you don't. However I've found it's fairly common in the cases where someone says "I hate anime but [Cowboy Bebop/Ghost in the Shell] was pretty good"
Not 'pretty good'. The 'greatest expression of narrative, style, visuals and music known the man'. Subtle difference.
Soladrin wrote:Well, I haven't even heard Bleach dubs, but I avoid Dubs unless I can't find any subbed version.
The only good dub is DBZ, because otherwise we wouldn't have some of those beauties on youtube... you know what I'm talking about.
Watch Bacanno dubbed. It's FAR better with english language accents. It's set in 30's gangland america, and without the accents half the impact of the lines are gone.
Never heard of that series TBH. I'll look it up, thanks for the heads up mate.
It won a couple of awards, it's one of the best anime I've seen and I've seen many. I caught it on hulu, but I think it's all on funimations site now.
Baccano is awesome and it's defiantly in my top 10 at least. It's got it's weak points and it's certainly not the most substantive series I've ever seen. However, the style and presentation are so great it doesn't really matter.
Too many camera pans and zooms across still frames masquerading as actual animation for my liking.
As I understand it these shortcuts are usually a result of budget constraints. Series with a bigger budget behind them, or that just plain don't need to a lot of action don't run into those issues as much.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I also can stand the snobbery that comes with anime. "Oh I only ever watch it in the original Japanese" - no, feth you and your original Japanese. Who gives a feth what language it is in. Yes, older things had translation problems (Gundam is a good example - no adjectives for 'Enemy' AHHHHH!!), but I think we're past that. The only thing I will watch in Japanese is Transformers: Headmasters and that's only because the Dub is so bad it's almost a self-parody (anyone who's watched it will know what I'm speaking of).
Thank you! It really gets on my nerves when people assume they're better than me because I prefer English dub. Sure, you can enjoy hearing it in its native language, but darn it, I can watch the show and not have to fething read.
(And I'm not bashing reading in general. Just saying - if I want to watch something, I want to watch it, not read it)
Finished watching Elfen Lied, pretty awesome, I like the whole Idea of It with the Disclonius. I'd love another anime based on that universe.. but kind of more then 13 episodes.
I need a new anime with a good background, good plot and all the rest of that crap.
H.B.M.C. wrote:The only thing I will watch in Japanese is Transformers: Headmasters and that's only because the Dub is so bad it's almost a self-parody (anyone who's watched it will know what I'm speaking of).
There's rumours of it(and the other Japanese Seasons) being released by Shout! Factory in America with new brand new Dubbing.
I personally don't get anime, DBZ was completely lost to me while all of my friends were entranced by it. I prefer my american cartoons and animations like "The Land Before Time", Looney Toons, Johnny Bravo, Bobby's World, and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
I mean, growing up I always associated cartoons with being funny. I never imagined them to be animated soap operas for kids. Half of those things can make the writers for "Days of Our Lives" jealous.
It also doesn't help that my anime fan cousin destroyed my laptop by downloading every single Naruto episode. I tried watching several and they all left bad tastes in my mouth.
Chongara wrote:It's certainly very possible you don't. However I've found it's fairly common in the cases where someone says "I hate anime but [Cowboy Bebop/Ghost in the Shell] was pretty good"
Not 'pretty good'. The 'greatest expression of narrative, style, visuals and music known the man'. Subtle difference.
At least with the music on those two it kind of helps that the same composer, Yoko Kanno, did the scores for both shows. I have snapped up as many of the soundtracks I could find for them and listen to them on a regular basis.
Alot of it sucks, but some is awesome. Im not a massive manga fanboy, but i did kinda like DBZ. The cartoons had too much standing around doing nothing, but i liked the comics.
Oh and i own the first 6 of "Vagabond" i thought they were awesome.
99% of it is a little out there for my tastes i must admit.
halonachos wrote:I prefer my american cartoons and animations like... and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
Which isn't American.
George Carlin narrated it a couple of times, I would call it american. Seeing as though a work done by an english clergyman was narrated by someone who wasn't exactly the poster boy for clean living, it is hippocrasy and is therefor american.
But yes, anime does blow chunks and I blame america for that.
halonachos wrote:I prefer my american cartoons and animations like... and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
Which isn't American.
George Carlin narrated it a couple of times, I would call it american. Seeing as though a work done by an english clergyman was narrated by someone who wasn't exactly the poster boy for clean living, it is hippocrasy and is therefor american.
But yes, anime does blow chunks and I blame america for that.
halonachos wrote:I prefer my american cartoons and animations like... and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
Which isn't American.
George Carlin narrated it a couple of times, I would call it american. Seeing as though a work done by an english clergyman was narrated by someone who wasn't exactly the poster boy for clean living, it is hippocrasy and is therefor american.
But yes, anime does blow chunks and I blame america for that.
Please explain how it's Americas fault.
Domestic cartoons are by and large pieces of gak? You haven't made a decent cartoon in... 20 years?
halonachos wrote:I prefer my american cartoons and animations like... and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
Which isn't American.
George Carlin narrated it a couple of times, I would call it american. Seeing as though a work done by an english clergyman was narrated by someone who wasn't exactly the poster boy for clean living, it is hippocrasy and is therefor american.
But yes, anime does blow chunks and I blame america for that.
You're an idiot. Just because a show host is re-dubbed for an American audience does not make it American. That's like saying that many US cartoons are foreign because the animation is cleaned up and finished by Korean animators.
"Thomas and Friends is a British children's television series, first broadcast on the ITV network in September 1984. Until season 7, which premiered in 2003, it was named Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. This series was shot on 35mm film. The first 12 seasons were filmed at Shepperton Studios."
halonachos wrote:I prefer my american cartoons and animations like... and mutha fethin' Thomas the Tank Engine.
Which isn't American.
George Carlin narrated it a couple of times, I would call it american. Seeing as though a work done by an english clergyman was narrated by someone who wasn't exactly the poster boy for clean living, it is hippocrasy and is therefor american.
But yes, anime does blow chunks and I blame america for that.
Please explain how it's Americas fault.
Domestic cartoons are by and large pieces of gak? You haven't made a decent cartoon in... 20 years?
I thought avatar was pretty good (I love cartoons) and the mid 90's was a great time for american cartoons though admittedly that was quite some time ago. Shows like Rockos modern life and Ren and Stimpy were very well done. They've gone down hill after the deaths of cartoon cartoons and the saturday morning block being filled up with anime though. Japan helped to gut the american cartoon market and lost a lot of it's own quality in return.
I would also have to say that Dexter's Lab and Megas XLR were super fantastic.
And yes shuma, it is our fault. Had we never opened up the japanese isolationism, anime wouldn't have spread as it did, similar to how that tentacle thing they developed in the 19th century wouldn't of spread as well.
And unlike most anime it had character development and an ending.
Thats like saying "and unlike most Western developed live action shows...."
But even more so, nearly all the anime ive ever watched have had concrete endings. For the most part, shows are 1 season (13 episodes), 2 seasons (26 episodes), or 4 seasons/full year (52 episodes) which move to a solid ending. But really I digress.
These conversations always get dominated by hardcore anime nerds and people who grew up with Sailormoon and Dragon Ball Z and hated it.
By the by, and off topic, I loved Avatar, I hope the movie is half-way decent.
ShumaGorath wrote:And unlike most anime it had character development and an ending.
Actually, it's more common for anime to have a clear ending then, say, American TV shows. Most US TV shows end on a season ending cliffhanger to try and get executives to bring the show back for another season.
And we have the Sci-Fi channel closing good shows in favor of making crap mockbusters.
It is the only channel I have ever heard of ditching it's highest rated shows to make utter garbage films.
Bastard!!! (*spoiler* Heart rippage outing occurs), Ninja Scroll (the movie, not the god awful series), Twilight of the Dark Master, Demon City Shinjuku, Kite (OAV), Mezzo (OAV), Angel Cop (hard to find), Black Lagoon (more violent then gory), Petshop of Horror (more cerebral), Akira gets an honorable mention here, certain sequences in X:1999 are fairly rough...
That's just off the top of my head.
Oh, and anything Hellsing, though the OVA is better.
Quite a few anime that I have seen end their story. Some will leave it open for a new story to be made and there will be questions but they don't HAVE to make another series/story arc. My favorite ending is at the end of Cowboy Bebop. Yeah it made me wanna throw my T.V. against the wall in anger but thats a testimate to how good it was. When a story is capable of getting any strong emotion from somebody its got merit to me.
ShumaGorath wrote:And unlike most anime it had character development and an ending.
Actually, it's more common for anime to have a clear ending then, say, American TV shows. Most US TV shows end on a season ending cliffhanger to try and get executives to bring the show back for another season.
And we have the Sci-Fi channel closing good shows in favor of making crap mockbusters.
It is the only channel I have ever heard of ditching it's highest rated shows to make utter garbage films.
And yes, I'm talking about MST3K.
Dont forget FireFly.
Trigun had a definate ending. That was a pretty good anime, but don't go looking up videos of it online (AMV's stuff like that), It's an anime that you have to watch as a whole, not see parts of it.
The reason it's called Anime is it's short for Animation, and it's the sort of shortening that's often done in Japan (e.g. Persucom = Personal Computer = PC).
So Cartoons are a subsect of Anime rather than the other way around.
Cartoons can be non animated, so technically comic and cartoon (and manga and cartoon) are more exchangeable than the words anime and manga are.
actually i read that sci-fi channel is ditching some of it's programming to acquire WWE wrestling. so along with the crappy monster movie of the week, that is its new cash cow.
I like those sci-fi monster movies. who doesnt love b-movies. But hey. as long as wrestly is only on for an hour a so a week and eureka and warehouse 13 is still on im ok. i just hope sci-fi doesnt go the way of g-4.
Lord-Loss wrote:Any manga/anime out there with a large background, cool plot and non-robot like characters?
Funnily enough, Pluto. It's a murder/mystery cop drama manga about someone that is killing the world's most sophisticated robots and almost all of the major protagonists are robots. But they aren't giant or anything.
Also check out Ikigami. It's a manga about a man that has to deliver death papers. In an alternate universe Japan there is a thing called National Wellfare. Entering grade school all children are immunized by the government but one in a thousand of the syringes has a nanocapsule that will cause the victim to die at a predetermined time and date between the ages of 18 and 24. It's really really good.
For the "What Measure is a Robot" trope, please refer to Armitage III, though it's not that great, it has some interesting plot twists. Best seen as the full OVA and not the cut down 'movie' since you miss a lot of stuff.
ShumaGorath wrote:And unlike most anime it had character development and an ending.
Actually, it's more common for anime to have a clear ending then, say, American TV shows. Most US TV shows end on a season ending cliffhanger to try and get executives to bring the show back for another season.
And we have the Sci-Fi channel closing good shows in favor of making crap mockbusters.
It is the only channel I have ever heard of ditching it's highest rated shows to make utter garbage films.
And yes, I'm talking about MST3K.
Oddly enough what I said was still true. Most anime is not written with the ending in mind and it's rare indeed for one to feature character development of any sort.
...UM....actually, if we're talking manga that gets made into anime, usually there is an ending in mind. Since manga tend to have endings due to the way that manga studios tend to work. (Example, pitching something as a 24 chapter story)
Even if that ending is a total mind screw like Evangelion or Key: the Metal Idol.
BaronIveagh wrote:...UM....actually, if we're talking manga that gets made into anime, usually there is an ending in mind. Since manga tend to have endings due to the way that manga studios tend to work. (Example, pitching something as a 24 chapter story)
Even if that ending is a total mind screw like Evangelion or Key: the Metal Idol.
So how are the endings to naruto, bleach, and one piece coming along? Inuyasha? Fist of the north star and dragonball both started as manga and those only ended when the viewership grew up and had kids. How about all those gundams? The fact that you can even bring up evangelion (A show that ended because it got the axe, not because it was supposed to end) shows a bit of a selective bias in how you are choosing to defend this little facet of the genre.
I like anime to a extent, but I then I just view it as a different style of cartoon (why should it matter where it came from?). It can be cliche, lots of fan service, and really annoying followers, but so does every other media out there, and as quite a few of the other forum goers have noted before that there is quite the collection of good anime out there.
Of course, my favorite is Gurren Lagann, which I'm surprised hasn't got that much attention.
BaronIveagh wrote:...UM....actually, if we're talking manga that gets made into anime, usually there is an ending in mind. Since manga tend to have endings due to the way that manga studios tend to work. (Example, pitching something as a 24 chapter story)
Even if that ending is a total mind screw like Evangelion or Key: the Metal Idol.
So how are the endings to naruto, bleach, and one piece coming along? Inuyasha? Fist of the north star and dragonball both started as manga and those only ended when the viewership grew up and had kids. How about all those gundams? The fact that you can even bring up evangelion (A show that ended because it got the axe, not because it was supposed to end) shows a bit of a selective bias in how you are choosing to defend this little facet of the genre.
Quite a few shows end and don't get a second or third season which makes it seem like it ended abruptly. DMC did this. Berserk definitely needs more episodes, etc.
BaronIveagh wrote:...UM....actually, if we're talking manga that gets made into anime, usually there is an ending in mind. Since manga tend to have endings due to the way that manga studios tend to work. (Example, pitching something as a 24 chapter story)
Even if that ending is a total mind screw like Evangelion or Key: the Metal Idol.
So how are the endings to naruto, bleach, and one piece coming along? Inuyasha? Fist of the north star and dragonball both started as manga and those only ended when the viewership grew up and had kids. How about all those gundams? The fact that you can even bring up evangelion (A show that ended because it got the axe, not because it was supposed to end) shows a bit of a selective bias in how you are choosing to defend this little facet of the genre.
Quite a few shows end and don't get a second or third season which makes it seem like it ended abruptly. DMC did this. Berserk definitely needs more episodes, etc.
There is nothing more frustrating than a series that leaves you hangin'. Luckily, it hasn't really happened to me much. Most of the series I've watched have gotten to a proper conclusion usually in under about 30 episodes. On the other hand, I'm slowly losing hope for a Spice and Wolf season 3.
Daba wrote:The reason it's called Anime is it's short for Animation, and it's the sort of shortening that's often done in Japan (e.g. Persucom = Personal Computer = PC).
That part alone makes me snicker.
But animes are for the most part very serious albeit a bloody serious or a blood and guts serious. Just imagine "Saving Private Ryan" with cartoon characters and lazers minus the blood, then you get "GI Joe". Add the lazers, machine guns, blood, and more guts than an anatomically correct human body holds and you get an anime or even several.
The whole reason that this happens, as I was once told by an anime loving guy, is because of Japan's population. Look at America's population and you see diversity that can fill in any diverse roles a movie may need. The japanese population however is exactly that, japanese so they can't really make a diverse movie so they almost are forced to rely on animation to allow them to create a movie with more than one ethnic group in it.
So I think that it would almost be safe to say that anime is just overcompensation for the inherent rascism in the country of Japan that would be apparant to the rest of the world if they made movies with an all japanese cast.
BaronIveagh wrote:...UM....actually, if we're talking manga that gets made into anime, usually there is an ending in mind. Since manga tend to have endings due to the way that manga studios tend to work. (Example, pitching something as a 24 chapter story)
Even if that ending is a total mind screw like Evangelion or Key: the Metal Idol.
So how are the endings to naruto, bleach, and one piece coming along? Inuyasha? Fist of the north star and dragonball both started as manga and those only ended when the viewership grew up and had kids. How about all those gundams? The fact that you can even bring up evangelion (A show that ended because it got the axe, not because it was supposed to end) shows a bit of a selective bias in how you are choosing to defend this little facet of the genre.
If I recall correctly, Evangelion (the TV series) ended as was written by the creator (who has some serious mental illnesses) however, no one understood the last two episodes due to a combination of highly experimental style and some parts being removed as too graphic by TV censors. (Rather like the last episode of Lost, the fanbase was outraged and still didn't fully understand what was going on) So the movies were produced. While EVA was on TV, it was tremendously popular, much to the astonishment of it's creators.
And I didn't state that all anime have a distinct ending. Some are open ended (Particularly Rumiko Takahashi's works, such as Inuyasha and Ranma 1/2, since she's always been in it for the money as opposed to as an art) Bleach had originally only been planned to run for two years as a manga, and unexpectedly took off. The author yielded to editorial pressure and thus, it has more or less rolled on past the ending planned (Ichigo getting his 'permit' as a Death God). Can't say anything about Naruto or One Piece, I've never read or watched either one. Only read some of Dragonball and never watched the series (not a big fan of Akira Toriyama, though his work on Chronotrigger was great) Gundam is like Star Trek. It dies for a while, and then someone comes up with a new version, that somehow sucks even harder then the previous one.
halonachos wrote: So I think that it would almost be safe to say that anime is just overcompensation for the inherent rascism in the country of Japan that would be apparant to the rest of the world if they made movies with an all japanese cast.
The enormous industry that is Japanese cinema proves this statement blatantly false.
If the Japanese need an non-Japanese cast member, they're not afraid to hire one.
LunaHound wrote:Sailor Moon :'D
And because im so bored of anime now not using proper Opening , they are mostly just bits and pieces cropped and pasted from normal episodes.
They're not all bad, I thought Eden of the East had a pretty nice opening even if it was pushing the artsy thing a bit a hard.
halonachos wrote:
So I think that it would almost be safe to say that anime is just overcompensation for the inherent rascism in the country of Japan that would be apparant to the rest of the world if they made movies with an all japanese cast.
The enormous industry that is Japanese cinema proves this statement blatantly false.
If the Japanese need an non-Japanese cast member, they're not afraid to hire one.
Japanese Cinema, bah, never heard of it. If you mean FF XIV then that's CGI, not real people.
Now, it's not that I don't dislike all japanese things; N64, PS2, PS3, and sushi are all alright with me. Its just that I have never in my life seen any non-anime/cgi movie made in Japan that features caucasians or black people. Just look at all of the Godzilla movies, those were made with guys in monster suits, micro machines, and Japanese people.
@Luna, I somehow doubt they worship caucasians and black people. To say that is to say that Canada worships America, it simply isn't true.
If I recall correctly, Evangelion (the TV series) ended as was written by the creator (who has some serious mental illnesses) however, no one understood the last two episodes due to a combination of highly experimental style and some parts being removed as too graphic by TV censors. (Rather like the last episode of Lost, the fanbase was outraged and still didn't fully understand what was going on) So the movies were produced. While EVA was on TV, it was tremendously popular, much to the astonishment of it's creators.
Nope, they ran out of budget due to using overly high frame count action sequences mid season. The writers never intended on using xerox paper sketches and background paintings (old ones) for the last two episodes. The ending was purely an artifact of poor budgeting. When reruns influenced high sell through on merch and DVDs (for far longer than the series was worth) then the go ahead was given to green light an animated movie ending. It was better than the actual ending but it wasn't exactly good or "as the writer intended" either.
They are now making a new 'remaster' version with shorter skirts and presumably an ending.
And I didn't state that all anime have a distinct ending.
And I didn't state that all didn't. Miracles.
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LunaHound wrote:halonacho , japanese culture pretty much worship Caucasian and Negroes , the only thing they actually dont worship are asians.
Caucasians yes. Blacks are treated more as stereotypes and oddities (the black population percentage in japan is very, very low). The Japanese have never been very good at avoiding genteel racism.
And because im so bored of anime now not using proper Opening , they are mostly just bits and pieces cropped and pasted from normal episodes.
Strangely I now feel like the spirit of Walt Disney is calling to me. It tells me to get on a plane to Japan. Find the creators of the above, and harm them in new and interesting ways, all the while humming along to the tune of Steamboat Willy.
halonachos wrote:Is there money to be made as a caucasian in Japan then?
If you want to teach english. You're better off staying stateside as an actual career choice. Not a bad place to flub around for a year or two though if you speak the language.
And because im so bored of anime now not using proper Opening , they are mostly just bits and pieces cropped and pasted from normal episodes.
Strangely I now feel like the spirit of Walt Disney is calling to me. It tells me to get on a plane to Japan. Find the creators of the above, and harm them in new and interesting ways, all the while humming along to the tune of Steamboat Willy.
Whatever man, I grew up watching Sailor Moon. Mind you, I was too young to know any better.....
halonachos wrote: So I think that it would almost be safe to say that anime is just overcompensation for the inherent rascism in the country of Japan that would be apparant to the rest of the world if they made movies with an all japanese cast.
The enormous industry that is Japanese cinema proves this statement blatantly false.
If the Japanese need an non-Japanese cast member, they're not afraid to hire one.
Japanese Cinema, bah, never heard of it. If you mean FF XIV then that's CGI, not real people.
Now you're just being intentionally obtuse and argumentative.
How about all those Samurai historicals that come from Japan, or anything by Akira Kurasawa, or Godzilla, or a large part of the genre that is named(shockingly) J-horror?
And those are just the ones that make it to mass market America. Once you go online and see the stuff you can import, you'll see your extreme ignorance on the subject.
halonachos wrote:
So I think that it would almost be safe to say that anime is just overcompensation for the inherent rascism in the country of Japan that would be apparant to the rest of the world if they made movies with an all japanese cast.
The enormous industry that is Japanese cinema proves this statement blatantly false.
If the Japanese need an non-Japanese cast member, they're not afraid to hire one.
Japanese Cinema, bah, never heard of it. If you mean FF XIV then that's CGI, not real people.
Now you're just being intentionally obtuse and argumentative. STFU or get out.
How about all those Samurai historicals that come from Japan, or anything by Akira Kurasawa, or Godzilla, or a large part of the genre that is named(shockingly) J-horror?
And those are just the ones that make it to mass market America. Once you go online and see the stuff you can import, you'll see your extreme ignorance on the subject.
There's definitely a breadth to Japanese cinema, though realistically the vast majority of Japanese films are low budget with poor acting and writing. It's not a mature industry.
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