I don't really want GW to die, just stop screwing us over and making bad decisions so they'll be around longer.

BrookM wrote:Oh-ho-ho, you're funny today. Set the example and sod off, if you preach the word then follow it to the letter.

Oh, but I am. For one thing, all the miniatures I've bought in the past two months have been secondhand, the majority of those over 20 years old. I am not supporting Games Workshop financially at all. A separate tangent is the estimate that over half of the Squats and other Rogue Trader era figures that I buy from ebay are likely recasts (of course, I purchase them bona fide, in good faith).

Second, I'm not advocating that I or anyone else stop playing. Me playing 40k doesn't have a significant effect on GW finances (aside from the negligible advertisement value if I happen play at their stores). Me not buying Leman Russes, Valkyries or Hellhounds on the other hand has a measurable, though infinitesimal effect on their finances. I have, as you so eloquently put it, "sodded off" from being a Games Workshop customer.

Thirdly, even if I were inclined to leave all aspects of this Games Workshop hobby behind me, there is still no need for me to actually leave these forums, even though you'd obviously prefer it. I still buy Heresy miniatures, I still collect Mercenary Warjacks, and as long as Dakka is not a GW-exclusive forum, I have every right to be here. So you're just going to have to swallow your disappointment.

I just skipped a lot of this thread since I actually should be working on university stuff for a while now.

I'm not going into the legal issues here but I just wanted to add, when I came to my local GW on the same day Planetstrike came out he told me, that he had one (1) bag of the new craters left and wanted me to buy them. I refused since I don't have the space for a gaming table, so he told me again that this would be his last batch.

As sad as this situation is for all of us, I want to thank H.B.M.C. for doing this. Epic Win, dude.

Just looking on the Blastscape page on the GW website:

Availability: No Longer Available

Read into that what you will, but I seriously doubt that they sold out...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, just got back.

Manager opened up the latest issue of WD and pointed out the tiny fine-print disclaimer where it says that promotional picures are for display purposes only, and that products may vary from those shown.

...

Also, there doesn't seem to be any disclaimer to that effect anywhere obvious on the website (and I did trawl through all the legal pages) - pretty poor effort to use a disclaimer in a catalogue that noone buys anymore.

P.S. Hi everyone!

Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.

Err, that's what I got.

Wasn't the word that most were recalled?

Sidstyler wrote:I think you guys have missed the point here.

I stated to them from the outset:

1. I did not buy it from them.
2. I had no receipt showing purchase.
3. I brought the items in the box Maelstrom had sent them to me, with their details on two different sides of the box.

He offered me the refund anyway. And he didn't give me cash, it was simply put onto my credit card.

If this is true then the fault lies entirely with GW, he didn't steal gak, and rofl@ anyone claiming he did.

EXACTLY.

So everyone needs to CALM DOWN now, and STOP with the personal insults.

Sidstyler wrote:

Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.

Err, that's what I got.

Really? that's interesting... perhaps it's been pulled by GWOZ and not GWUS (yet), though there has been many a time that GWOZ were understocked of new releases, so I suppose I shouldn't write off the possibility of it being sold out...

BrookM wrote:I also bought mine off Maelstrom and went to the GW store yesterday for replacements, the manager said no problem and gave me a new bag after personally checking the contents. IF I were to do this through Maelstrom I'd never see replacements. GW is responsible and like the fine people they are, they took responsibility yesterday with good grace and spirit.

We get it: GW can do no wrong in your eyes...

CT GAMER wrote:

BrookM wrote:I also bought mine off Maelstrom and went to the GW store yesterday for replacements, the manager said no problem and gave me a new bag after personally checking the contents. IF I were to do this through Maelstrom I'd never see replacements. GW is responsible and like the fine people they are, they took responsibility yesterday with good grace and spirit.

We get it: GW can do no wrong in your eyes...

Ah, there we go again.

Typical GW,they seem to cock everything up.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I stated to them from the outset:

1. I did not buy it from them.
2. I had no receipt showing purchase.
3. I brought the items in the box Maelstrom had sent them to me, with their details on two different sides of the box.

He offered me the refund anyway. And he didn't give me cash, it was simply put onto my credit card.

You didnt state this in your post though.

I retract calling you a theif.

While you're correct in that he didn't state it originally, you certainly didn't ask for details for launching the personal attacks.

Going off half-cocked and jumping to conclusions will often times lead to self-inflicted gun shot wounds and long falls...

At this point, I'd prefer if this could be kept on topic.

1) Reports of 'official' GW actions regarding the 'defective/inferior' product
2) Reports of 'high quality' blastscapes (i.e., one with ridge detail on the escape pod exhaust tubes)
3) Reports of GW recalls and or re-issues

All aboard the fail boat. Sigh. Thanks for the fair warning, never shall these runny-nose-turned-terrain pieces be bought by anyone I know if I have anything to say for it.

Rico.

I have had a situation in which my local FLGS GW affiliate mentioned to me that one of the "requirements" (for lack of a better word), is that if someone returns a still sealed product, or one that has obvious errors/mistakes in it, to accept it back on GW behalf with no questions.

I looked at him, asked then "If I buy something off Ebay for 1/2 price, and bring it in to you still sealed, you would HAVE to take it back?"

He said he did have to, and would I please never use this power for evil.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has heard similar?

Eh, haven't heard of that really. I once traded in a NIB Kroot carnivore squad I bought on eBay at my FLGS that I didn't need at the time, they gave me store credit and put it on the shelf since it was still wrapped. Never had to make a return.

I agree they are not the best I've ever seen or bought, but they are also only $20.They make a good addon or start to expand your terrain fields.The original ones are the proto's and as anyone knows the following runs are never as good.I will send pics of mine once I finish.Yes I will be adding bits to increase the looks.

I bought 2 sets of these on Friday. Started reading this post and actually looked at blastscapes. Depressing!

I will keep and add to moonscapes. Not happy that they advertise in WD one thing and actually sell something a bit different and less detailed.

OTOH, I bought the Temple of Skulls. That is one impressive piece. Nice detail and something non-SM, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add insult to injury.

WD showed these were supposed to sell July 4th. They were pushed back 2 weeks and we get these. I can only assume the first batches were worse and GW had them remade at a cheap facility, quickly.

GW had to have seen the quality and still released. They dropped ball, instead of just announcing a manufacturing problem.

These were sold to stores as a limited run, like a lot of thing.

As for buying things "second hand" as a way to screw the man, you're likely only a step away from the economics. The ability to re-sell GW product at a decent price is one reason this hobby is so dynamic. Try that with your old Magic collection. Those who sell their older stuff have cash freed up to buy new stuff.

Also, Games Workshop independent stores are not required to take back all GW product, or even GW product they sell! They set their own return policies like anything else, hopefully something sensible. GW company stores tend to take back just about anything GW. I've had customers try to return GW product with me, bought at other stores, and I've declined the opportunity. They were surprised at this, which I found very strange.

**Disclimer:** I am not writing this with any feeling other then my own side of things. I am not angry just voicing an opinion. So I am not trolling and looking for trouble.

Well I am sorry to see so many people feel as if they are getting shafted by this...because, well, they did get shafted.

It is a crappy product and them pointing to some disclaimer in a WD as their only means of defense just stinks of shadiness. I am glad the store who did this to HBMC got swindled for the money. To me it doesn't matter if it was meant to or not I think at that point the staffer was bringing it on himself for acting like an a-hole. I know HBMC didn't do it with intent to mislead but I still give you congrats for getting more then what was due.

Having worked as a manager in retail for more the 10yrs I can honestly say that the company hardly takes a hit when something comes back as "defective", so to speak. They get compensated for it in one way or another.

If you are not happy with the product, take it back to GW. GW has the final say on what gets put out, IMO, so they are ultimately responsible for handling the disgruntled customers. If you got it from a third party, still, take it back to GW. That third party has no way of controlling what GW allows to be put out as new official product until it is too late.

blackdiamond wrote:These were sold to stores as a limited run, like a lot of thing.

As for buying things "second hand" as a way to screw the man, you're likely only a step away from the economics. The ability to re-sell GW product at a decent price is one reason this hobby is so dynamic. Try that with your old Magic collection. Those who sell their older stuff have cash freed up to buy new stuff.

Also, Games Workshop independent stores are not required to take back all GW product, or even GW product they sell! They set their own return policies like anything else, hopefully something sensible. GW company stores tend to take back just about anything GW. I've had customers try to return GW product with me, bought at other stores, and I've declined the opportunity. They were surprised at this, which I found very strange.

GW sets their own return policies, THE MADNESS!!!

I would give some pretty funny looks if someone tried to sell me my stuff back to me, but GW doesn't seem to care enough to patch that hole.

Although I do not entirely agree with Agamemnon2, he makes some really solid points, and I do agree that it matters not if GW goes under. These are games people, and new games come out every year. Instead of trying to defend or understand every action GW makes, understand that they are a company that functions solely to get your money.

GW is not the only miniature company out there, diversify.

Nicorex wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I stated to them from the outset:

1. I did not buy it from them.
2. I had no receipt showing purchase.
3. I brought the items in the box Maelstrom had sent them to me, with their details on two different sides of the box.

He offered me the refund anyway. And he didn't give me cash, it was simply put onto my credit card.

You didnt state this in your post though.

I retract calling you a theif.

Really .. you do ... that is so big of you - ignoring the fact of course that you didn't check GW policy on returns of bad product and that this is standard business practice for most industries. Jumping in with a over-reaction with a minimal knowledge of the topic whilst full of righteous indignation is so very typical of the internets. I won't retract my initial thoughts however - you are still an idiot, as is the other person and as for the "lawyer" giving his opinion I hope never to be one of his clients.

Very big of you on the retraction though - I am sure he will rest soundly tonight knowing your opinion on this topic has changed has changed.

blackdiamond wrote:As for buying things "second hand" as a way to screw the man, you're likely only a step away from the economics. The ability to re-sell GW product at a decent price is one reason this hobby is so dynamic. Try that with your old Magic collection. Those who sell their older stuff have cash freed up to buy new stuff.

Depends on what you buy, really. The RT-era Guard and Squats I favor are likely either recasts or models that have switched hands a dozen times over the past twenty years. It's likely that the last time GW saw any profit off them was when MC Hammer was still a major name in the music biz.

I'm tempted to get the blastscapes and paint it up. I think a decent paint job could make this £12 bag of terrain really shine.

It's an absolute bargain regardless of the different of quality. Forge World would charge £30-£40 for EACH crater.

GW aren't stupid, they know charging too much for craters would see the gamers laughing at them as they make their own. But £12 is the perfect price point for a splash purchase, ok so the quality reflects that, but I wouldn't spend any more then £12 on craters even of the craters were the advertised quality.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think buying anything at all from GW is indefensible, whether directly or via discount retailers. I believe the company deserves to die.

I am sure the feeling is quite mutual. If you hate GW STFO threads about them. You hardly ever contribute in a positive way. If I got on here and said I hope Privateer Press dies, I'd be warned or banned. Not to mention the flurry of posts saying what a noob and idiot I am. You need to grow the hell up man, no one cares that you hate GW so much. Even the most hard core player still loves the game itself, which you can't even manage to do. You are a bad influence who make all threads you post in hostile.

porkuslime wrote:I have had a situation in which my local FLGS GW affiliate mentioned to me that one of the "requirements" (for lack of a better word), is that if someone returns a still sealed product, or one that has obvious errors/mistakes in it, to accept it back on GW behalf with no questions.

I looked at him, asked then "If I buy something off Ebay for 1/2 price, and bring it in to you still sealed, you would HAVE to take it back?"

He said he did have to, and would I please never use this power for evil.

Just wondering if anyone else out there has heard similar?

No such requirement. Whatsoever. Not in print, and never been asked of me, or my stores. I've dealt with GW since the first day they sold to US stores directly. It's not a requirement.

However, GW always replaces bad products. So if someone brings in sealed and defective product, sure, most stores will take it back. Then GW replaces the product. The FLGS takes no loss. Now, the whole "If I buy something off Ebay for 1/2 price, and bring it in to you still sealed, you would HAVE to take it back?" thing, who cares? The guys that sold it on ebay could have returned it, the guy that bought it could return it, and the store that swaps it out gets remibursed. GW sold it originally, it's defective, they take it back. GW wants the defective product replaced.

I actually love replacing bad models. Bring all yours by to my store, please! GW rarely wants the defective box returned, and tells me to keep them for my modeling classes or bitz boxes.

Personally I haven't seen the blastscape pieces, as the store I work at is small and so doesn't stock such things all the time . . . however even as a staff member I am shocked by this lack of quality, and will talk to my manager about it when I see him next.

But this doesn't stop the fact that GW still makes awesome scenery pieces, don't let one bad batch put you off the scenery. For example, the new Battlescape piece of scenery looks awesome! On par with the Temple of Skulls, and only £15 . . . an awesome deal if you ask me . . . but then I'm biased . . . but just look on the website, in WD, anywhere that has the pictures . . . it looks awesome!

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:I am sure the feeling is quite mutual. If you hate GW STFO threads about them. You hardly ever contribute in a positive way. If I got on here and said I hope Privateer Press dies, I'd be warned or banned. Not to mention the flurry of posts saying what a noob and idiot I am. You need to grow the hell up man, no one cares that you hate GW so much. Even the most hard core player still loves the game itself, which you can't even manage to do. You are a bad influence who make all threads you post in hostile.

I don't "hate" GW. Hating something that's not a person is scarcely logical. I don't go around hating McDonalds or Greenpeace, either. This isn't about hatred, but rather about the simple economic judgment of value-for-money. I don't have strong negative feelings towards the game either, though it is fair to say I lack positive ones for it, as well.

I'm flattered that you imbue me with some mythical rabble-rousing ability, but really, Dakka has never needed my help at being a hive of conflict. Just look at the sensible and non-confrontational way they treated poor HBMC getting his money back from GW for a product he purchased at Maelstrom. I am not the problem with this forum, though I'm sure people of your ilk would thus vilify me.

And for the record, next time you feel the need to attack me with so grossly inaccurate a slander, spare myself the trouble and yourself the humiliation and kindly don't. Have a nice day.

What concerns me now is that I returned two sets - one opened and one completely untouched and in the bag. Is that manager going to take my untouched one and put it on the shelf with the other two I saw there and sell them again?

Gareth wrote:I'm tempted to get the blastscapes and paint it up. I think a decent paint job could make this £12 bag of terrain really shine.

It's an absolute bargain regardless of the different of quality. Forge World would charge £30-£40 for EACH crater.

GW aren't stupid, they know charging too much for craters would see the gamers laughing at them as they make their own. But £12 is the perfect price point for a splash purchase, ok so the quality reflects that, but I wouldn't spend any more then £12 on craters even of the craters were the advertised quality.

You seem to be living in a world of overpriced goods then mate. These pieces in the quality they have chose to sell them in are hardly worth 10$, let alone 20$. I assume you would be GW's target audience, because there seems to be practically no one in this thread that honestly believes these pieces are even worth buying, let alone at the price GW has set. Whether a mistake or purposeful, these pieces are simply below the quality that they should be. A bit of detail llot is not what we are talking about here, these are almost a different product. If I bought a sandwich with avocado and turkey, but got a pepperoni and mayonnaise sandwich I would sure as hell cause a fuss about it.

You also compared GW(FW) to GW for a second there... think about it man... just think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:What concerns me now is that I returned two sets - one opened and one completely untouched and in the bag. Is that manager going to take my untouched one and put it on the shelf with the other two I saw there and sell them again?

I would actually request that these pieces would be sent back directly, because the problem is not with the fact that I do not like it. The piece is officially a blunder, and resale would be atrociously un-professional. Call GW headquarters if your local store does not listen. As soon as 12 stores have gotten this response, and it is recorded on DakkaDakka, you will begin to have a serious E-mail to send to GW corporate, screw what the red-shirts have to say.

H.B.M.C. wrote:What concerns me now is that I returned two sets - one opened and one completely untouched and in the bag. Is that manager going to take my untouched one and put it on the shelf with the other two I saw there and sell them again?

You should figure out some non-obvious method of marking the unopened product you returned and have someone else go in and check.

In the bottom right corner when you are looking at the front of the box the right side up, you will notice a small microchip. Take this microchip and type in your 5 digit code, then tap the microchip on the very center of the box. The packaging should turn green now and the whole box will be sell-able at that point. I think we have a plan now, just to figure out how to make the color changing nanotechnology effective.

You could also just put a red dot on the corner, no one will notice unless they know it is already there.... Hmmm, at least 1000 people will see that one coming now, perhaps a blue marker would be better.

Sadly these will be put on the shelves and sold again, that is the way still packaged returns work at GW . . . 99% of the time it is highly sensible, but when low quality products are returned to the shelves this is poor . . . they instead should be returned to HQ with a customer complaint.

Is there any quality control laws that apply to this products downfalls? I am not a lawyer, but there has to be something protecting the consumer that can be applied to this.

Well if a customer is unsatisfied with a product it is well within their rights to return it . . . as I believe it . . . this means, if you get something out of the box and are unsatisfied with the quality, go talk to your local GW store manager, or in some other way contact GW. They SHOULD get it returned for you, as GW isn't about selling shoddy things, it's about selling quality products to get repeat custom . . . as a niche market GW needs to retain customers, otherwise it will lose money, and go out of business.

My first thought would be that the product image wasn't clearly represented as an advertisement only. I consider this false advertising, but I know the laws on this are incredibly complicated and pretty convoluted.

If the website AND the store did not state this product would be different that what the advertisements represent, then I would think that GW is in the wrong. There are significant enough differences in the product and the advertisement to mislead people into buying something that they did not intend to. This is hardly an issue for a court quite honestly, but I think being prepared is always a good thing, and GW owes people for this mistake; at least if they want to salvage a bit of their reputation (which may or may not matter to them).

I would personally like to hear what is happening with the FLGS's and their orders. Are store trying to return this product with success? Returning an entire order can look pretty bad if you are trying to maintain a good rep with GW, although they hardly have a real excuse now.

Oshova wrote:... it's about selling quality products to get repeat custom...

You are aware what the topic of this thread is, right?

It's about pancakes, right HBMC?

Oshova wrote:Well if a customer is unsatisfied with a product it is well within their rights to return it . . . as I believe it . . . this means, if you get something out of the box and are unsatisfied with the quality, go talk to your local GW store manager, or in some other way contact GW. They SHOULD get it returned for you, as GW isn't about selling shoddy things, it's about selling quality products to get repeat custom . . . as a niche market GW needs to retain customers, otherwise it will lose money, and go out of business.

The manager told me to keep in contact with GW customer services.

alsycho wrote:I agree they are not the best I've ever seen or bought, but they are also only $20.

Only $20? Do you have a money tree in the back yard or what? Considering what you're getting for $20 that's pretty fething ridiculous.

alsycho wrote:original ones are the proto's and as anyone knows the following runs are never as good.I will send pics of mine once I finish.

No. No, no, no, that's bs, I'm sorry. Some loss of detail is acceptable, but the difference between the final product and the huge, detailed pictures they showed off all over the fething place is too great for me to accept that as an excuse.

See that piece with the SM bits on it? Even if they had come out like that it wouldn't have been that bad, but the quality isn't even that good. They're gak, they look like mush, there's no excuse or defense.

GW is not the only miniature company out there, diversify.

No other game or mini company really appeals to me. Some games look fun, like Flames of War or Battletech, but they have crap models...not a fan of the smaller scale for Flames of War (and the fact that infantry look like blobs), and the boring, samey poses on Battletech models aren't too impressive, either (and I don't feel like cutting and reposing them). Privateer Press models are really hit and miss, and I've heard bad things about the ruleset in general (I hate CCGs, and what's even worse than a CCG? A tabletop minis game that plays like a CCG...). Also, "Page 5"? No thanks.

Other than that, um...what else is there? I'd rather invest in a game that I know will be around for a while, and the fact that I can't even think of any other games besides those doesn't really fill me with confidence. AT-43 died out already didn't it?

If the website AND the store did not state this product would be different that what the advertisements represent, then I would think that GW is in the wrong.

Even if they did put these disclaimers up on their website, does that really give them the right to advertise one product and sell something completely different? I don't think so...

There are significant enough differences in the product and the advertisement to mislead people into buying something that they did not intend to.

Exactly, the difference between the finished product and the one advertised is huge, I'd never buy them if I knew exactly what I was getting.

Sidstyler wrote:No other game or mini company really appeals to me. Some games look fun, like Flames of War or Battletech, but they have crap models...not a fan of the smaller scale for Flames of War (and the fact that infantry look like blobs), and the boring, samey poses on Battletech models aren't too impressive, either (and I don't feel like cutting and reposing them). Privateer Press models are really hit and miss, and I've heard bad things about the ruleset in general (I hate CCGs, and what's even worse than a CCG? A tabletop minis game that plays like a CCG...). Also, "Page 5"? No thanks.

Other than that, um...what else is there? I'd rather invest in a game that I know will be around for a while, and the fact that I can't even think of any other games besides those doesn't really fill me with confidence. AT-43 died out already didn't it?

I can understand where you are coming from. If you do a bit of window shopping you can get stuff from a bunch of companies that will suit your needs. One stop shopping is nice, but it starts to become an issue when GW gives itself the benefit of the doubt in situations like these. Most of the terrain I have seen and used have been home-made pieces, or conversions of some kind. With all of the information available (and bits too) you can make pretty much any terrain that you are willing to put the effort into. This may seem like a stupid answer to an unrelated question, but I don't see it that way. Perhaps this is a sign that Hobbyists should speak up more, and buy less (this could rationally be applied to any purchase).

DakkaDakka is obviously observed from many angles by GW, and this can be used as a means of rather direct communication. If enough people want something, the likelihood of it being made becomes a reality when they come together in a post such as this. As an individual consumer you do not have that much power, as a well organized group you can basically call some of the shots AND see them come to pass from a safe distance. I expect a large company like GW to listen to their customers, and their CSR are testament to the effort they put into caring for their customers.

Just because you are unhappy with something does not mean you need to get worked up about it, on the other hand you SHOULD get a refund if you see fit. On that same note, GW should be recalling this product quite soon, I would be surprised if they did not.

They've already been removed from sale on the Oz website
("No longer available" - seems the limited run was indeed very limited).

I'd rather they went back to their original crater set (back in the old RT/2nd ed days, when you got a couple of sheets of vacformed craters that you had to cut out yourself.

Then again I don't need them. I have enough skills to fabricate my own (and access to a mate's vacformer).

The Strongpoint set w/2 Bunkers & 3 Devensive Lines is also 'Not Available' off of Oz Mail Order.

US mail order too.

Thank God I got myself two of them from the Warstore

Still good to go on the UK site.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Strongpoint set w/2 Bunkers & 3 Devensive Lines is also 'Not Available' off of Oz Mail Order.

That doesn't make sense. So Maelstrom [and other retailers] are essentially the only way to get this item anyway, heh. It's like GW is telling you to shop at Maelstrom.

The Stronpoint comes with three Defense Lines though? Awesome. I thought it was only two.

Just contacted the (french) Direct Sales via phone. I was told that they were aware of the problem as some of them had ordered the Blastscape too and were quite disappointed, and that my only option was to get a refund by mailing them the "faulty" item back at my own expense... (Something which wouldn't make much sense to me, since sending it back would, with the prices of the french post, cost me about half the price of the item itself!)

I think I'll pay a visit to my local GW shop, a 5min walk from home, where I'm quite well known by the redshirts, when it opens tomorrow (it's closed on Mondays) and see what they will propose...

Well, unless they propose me a refund "on the spot" then I'll probably keep it just as a reminder never ever to advance order anything from GW again.

Yeah - a disgrace - went to pick some up from the store but saw the same horrible quality and left them there. Now worried if the new wrecked rhino piece is as bad...

Gniknok wrote:and regarding the problems of advertising not delivering... they seem to be doing the same with the planetary empires. The box cover shows a tile with a hive city on it

But I don't think this tile will be included in the box. It will be available separately via direct services. I was in my local GW store earlier this week when their latest 'black box' arrived and the hive city sprue was included, alongside the Battlewagon upgrade sprue and the kits for the new Leman Russ and Hellhound variants.

Got my WD in post today, and can confirm the Hive City tile is NOT included in box, and will cost £5 from mail order.

After reading this thread, went and looked these up at my local. No way would I purchase them at all, even if the plastic were of a respectable thickness. You would be better off installing a grimdark paintjob on kids toys, by far. You would spend less as well.

I've gotta a question regarding the blast scapes....Regardless of quality...

Why are they so dang enormous?? I mean too big for my tastes. Not sure if this is needed for the Vac form processing. I was expecting maybe 6 inches in length but in some cases they are closer to 15 inches long. I think I could get 40 figures in the footprint of the firestorm craters.

The laser burn looks like a pond given the size. Just a gripe. I'm going to try and paint them and see if they can be made to look resepctable.

For $20... I feel like I'm getting what I paid for. However, I'd rather see 2 or 3 of these "smaller" and done via injection molded on a sprue for the same price point.

I've just come from GW Covent Garden - apparently a memo has gone to stores explaining that the WD pictures are the resin moulds, so that they can apologise to customers who feel aggrieved.

Apology.... NOT accepted!

legalis wrote:I've just come from GW Covent Garden - apparently a memo has gone to stores explaining that the WD pictures are the resin moulds, so that they can apologise to customers who feel aggrieved.

They must be expecting a few then. No sign of a recall or even an admission of failure then. They're still regarded as quality product that GW is proud and happy to sell. This is the 'giant issue' of GW scenery, a blot on an otherwise spotless (if clichéd) record.

legalis wrote:I've just come from GW Covent Garden - apparently a memo has gone to stores explaining that the WD pictures are the resin moulds, so that they can apologise to customers who feel aggrieved.

Yeah I was just thinking that if GW thinks that this will be enough to appease their customer base then...

legalis wrote:I've just come from GW Covent Garden - apparently a memo has gone to stores explaining that the WD pictures are the resin moulds, so that they can apologise to customers who feel aggrieved.

Better late than never, I guess this means that customer services won't be getting back to us.

yeah,
I didn't get a responce to the email I sent on friday, so I called GW customer service again.

As luck would have it I got Yan on the phone, he got my email and appologised for not replying sooner.
He confirmed that the Photos in WD and Online are the Resin Masters and if your not happy with the actual product and live in the UK you can send them back free post.
(I think you can also return them to a GW store.)

Yan Zacks
Customer services GamesWorkShop
FREEPOST NW3673
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

you need to supply a cover letter with your returned items stating what the complaint with the item actually is.
here's mine...

Yan / GW CustomerServices,
Order Number: xxxxxxxxx
I’m returning these BlastScape craters because they don’t look like the advertised Product. They also fall short of my expectations from GW. The product is of low quality, it has many bent and broken areas and many of the details are clearly deformed from the intended cast.

I’ve been playing Games WorkShop games for about 15yrs and I think this is honestly the first product I’ve been disappointed with. (other than the 4th ed vehicle damage dice! But only because they stopped working in 5th edition!)

PAnic.

I expect I'll get a appology letter and a refund, Which I'll put towards either a battlescape or Planetary Emipre Tiles, both of which 'look' Awesome!

Panic...

Our FLGS got some of the craters in and they looked pretty bad, about the same "quality" as the OP. I can't believe GW would release such a crappy product like this (codex's not included)

Another sad thing about this fiasco, and one I may have missed being mentioned on the previous 12 pages, is what this does to GWs reputation.

I won't look at pretty pictures of exciting new terrain features the same way again. I'll reserve jugement until I see them in person. No more pre-orders if I can't trust them to release what they've shown.

I expect I'll get a appology letter and a refund, Which I'll put towards either a battlescape or Planetary Emipre Tiles, both of which 'look' Awesome!

I doubt even the chinese fabricators can mess up a bunch of hexagon pieces! Not like you need detail for that

GW won't get the message until the pre-orders for their next pre-release of limited edition (and vac formed) terrain craters (pun intended).

Most of the casting is done in the UK.

Hey all!

I am about halfway through my project to paint up the Moonscape and Blastscape sets. You can follow my progress (if you care) on my blog.

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-1.html

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-2.html

I hope to have my Moonscape set done and posted tonight and the Blastscape done later in the week. I am fairly sure this is off topic as we should only be talikng about how bad the Blastscape is but I hope you will not flog me too badly

Enjoy!

Al the ones we got at the store were of the crappy verity , but people still wanted them...
which I could not believe

Kirasu wrote:

I expect I'll get a appology letter and a refund, Which I'll put towards either a battlescape or Planetary Emipre Tiles, both of which 'look' Awesome!

I doubt even the chinese fabricators can mess up a bunch of hexagon pieces! Not like you need detail for that

THere are people out there who could foul up a wet dream.

hammerofulric wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think buying anything at all from GW is indefensible, whether directly or via discount retailers. I believe the company deserves to die.

And where would the hobby be then? Without a high street company, this hobby would so niche that it would be all but impossible to get into.

In the days before GW, this hobby was a lot easier to get into. There were a lot more general games/miniatures stores around than there are now. I don't know there is a causative link.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nash Trickster wrote:Just contacted the (french) Direct Sales via phone. I was told that they were aware of the problem as some of them had ordered the Blastscape too and were quite disappointed, and that my only option was to get a refund by mailing them the "faulty" item back at my own expense... (Something which wouldn't make much sense to me, since sending it back would, with the prices of the french post, cost me about half the price of the item itself!)

I think I'll pay a visit to my local GW shop, a 5min walk from home, where I'm quite well known by the redshirts, when it opens tomorrow (it's closed on Mondays) and see what they will propose...

Well, unless they propose me a refund "on the spot" then I'll probably keep it just as a reminder never ever to advance order anything from GW again.

You are legally entitled to deliver the defective product to a company shop yourself, and avoid paying postage. There is absolutely no law that you have to post the product back.

Schepp himself wrote:What, that's not the same model!

Greets
Schepp himself

It could've been remodelled and cleverly painted. For example the red dome on the crashed spaceship capsule looks as if it was set deeper in - that could have been achieved by cutting the original out and placing a plasticard tube and a part of a ping-pong ball within. The engines look hollow on GW display model, but I think it's just an illusion created by clever painting.

What would be the most challenging, for me at least, woud be splitting these rocks nicely, but I suppose the studio guys can deal with that easily.


It may be very well the same model - just painted and converted by a pro. I agree they shouldn't advertise modified terrain pieces as showcase of the product though.

My local FLGS had made an announcement about these on the yahoo group email. I went in there today and they had some on floor with other terrain. These things look crappy. When the Bastion and Aegis defense came pit the employees pointed these out to me said they were nice. I didn't even mention the blastscape at all.

I finally saw the cause of all this rabble the other day at my FLGS. I have to agree. They look like garbage. lol.

I went to my GW this weekend, the dude in there tried to sell me this.
After seeing it in WD I was almost sold on the products, although when he showed it to me, I remarked "Eww, that's really badly vac-formed plastic, I don't want that."

fething terrible. Bad form GW.

DrunkenSamurai wrote:Hey all!

I am about halfway through my project to paint up the Moonscape and Blastscape sets. You can follow my progress (if you care) on my blog.

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-1.html

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-2.html

I hope to have my Moonscape set done and posted tonight and the Blastscape done later in the week. I am fairly sure this is off topic as we should only be talikng about how bad the Blastscape is but I hope you will not flog me too badly

Enjoy!

Hey!

I'm glad to see someone making a go of it.

Any chance you could post your efforts in the Painting and Modeling forums? Particularly, the Dakka P&M Blogs Forum?

I really liked the crashed pod piece, but I didn't buy the set after seeing the shoddy final product.

If you can put lipstick on that pig, maybe I'll change my mind!

DrunkenSamurai wrote:Hey all!

I am about halfway through my project to paint up the Moonscape and Blastscape sets. You can follow my progress (if you care) on my blog.

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-1.html

http://dspaintingblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/moonscape-and-blastscape-part-2.html

I hope to have my Moonscape set done and posted tonight and the Blastscape done later in the week. I am fairly sure this is off topic as we should only be talikng about how bad the Blastscape is but I hope you will not flog me too badly

Enjoy!

Hell, looking at a moonscape crater and a blastscape crater side by side you can still tell the difference. The blastscape crater in the last photo on part 2 looks really "mushy" in comparison.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Manager opened up the latest issue of WD and pointed out the tiny fine-print disclaimer where it says that promotional picures are for display purposes only, and that products may vary from those shown.

Not good enough. The photos are clearly misleading and a little bit of fine print that "products may vary" doesn't excuse it. It's an obvious attempt to fob people off. Simply stating that the photo may not be representative of the actual item does not allow you to advertise something with grossly misleading photos as these are. It's clearly not the same product at all.

Well he fobbed me off, but still gave the refund. I can't exactly complain other than to say I wish it had never come to that in the first place.

I mean, FFS, put them for sale in resin. I'll buy 'em.

Well, WD's are written well in advance so they probably realized that this would pop up and just go with it.

I can understand people being angry that below-standard products are being sold . . . but you can get a refund if you don't like it, so it's not as if they are taking your money away from you forever =]

The point is they should be giving us decent products. I mean, I can make vac-formed crap for free, why would I pay for it?

That isn't the point as no one is forcing you to buy these, Tek.
If you feel they're not up to standard, you could e-mail GW or simply not purchase them.

Yeah, but then again if people are ill-informed of the product they are purchasing then they are not going to be happy. If i drive x amount of miles to my FLGS, purchase a product, and return home only to find out that I purchased a product that is not the quality product I saw in an advertisement then yeah, I'm going to be pissed. The whole purpose of this thread is to spread the word that GW created a product that does not meet their typical standard.

@Thorgut: What would you have Tek (and others) do? Be silent and hope that over a period of time GW will issue statements regarding the quality and please ask that you had better investigate your product before you take it home.

Thorgut wrote:That isn't the point as no one is forcing you to buy these, Tek.
If you feel they're not up to standard, you could e-mail GW or simply not purchase them.

Yes putting fingers in ears works well I hear for getting businesses to change!

Goal = to get GW to produce a higher quality product
Method = get as many people as possible to be angry and email them

By each person silently emailing GW or NOT buying it (which btw is fairly useless form of protest when GW has no idea you were going to buy it in the first place) you're limiting the impact. By posting on a huge message board and gathering LOTS of people you stand a MUCH greater chance of success

Therefore your advice is far from the most effective and thus more people should post in this thread to spread the word

Businesses rarely EVER do the right thing unless forced

Kirasu, you're taking my point out of context but I'll respond anyway. I am not offering advice on how to get Games Workshop to change how they operate.
I didn't say that ignoring this apparent "problem" is the only way to solve it.

Kirasu wrote:Method = get as many people as possible to be angry and email them

Thorgut wrote:If you feel they're not up to standard, you could e-mail GW...

You seem to have conveniently ignored that part of the sentence.

Businesses rarely EVER do the right thing unless forced

These posts won't force Games Workshop to do anything.

These posts won't force Games Workshop to do anything.

Hence,

Method = get as many people as possible to be angry and email them

Emphasis mine.

What's the proper protocol for waiting for an email reply btw? I don't want to come across as the shouting and foaming idiot who is impatient.

yeah I did say to email them :p Your suggestion was to do it in a vacuum.. Mine was to get LOTS to do it

Magnitude is all that matters when dealing with public companies

Kirasu wrote:Your suggestion was to do it in a vacuum.. Mine was to get LOTS to do it

Which is why I said you took my post out of context; thanks for making it that bit clearer.
I was suggesting two options to Tek, not every poster on this forum.

yeah,
I let GW know I didn't want sub par products.
I got a refund today.

Panic...

Has it already been posted that GW updated the product page?
They've painted one of the "real" ones up rather than a resin copy:

Oh those sneaky bastards, think they can sneak that one out from under our noses.

Pathetic. Rather than admitting fault, they'll just pretend it didn't happen. Now I'm glad I made a profit with my refund.

You know what that's just plain rude. If i'd seen the pics on thier sites first i would'nt mind the inferior product (Would'nt buy it but would'nt care). Its the false advertising and the messing around thats annoying.

I call for a RECAST. Someone rework a set of these, recast 'em, and sell 'em to us. We can PM or email the contact info. I'll sign up right now to buy 2. Who's interested? Anyone out there a good recaster?

Thorgut wrote:Has it already been posted that GW updated the product page?
They've painted one of the "real" ones up rather than a resin copy:

At least it doesn't look like a turd anymore, it looks like gold plated turd.

So wait...first you were mad because the product delivered did not match what was advertised (which I fully understand) but now that they are advertising the ACTUAL product on the site you are mad about that? I don't get it. What are they suposed to do to make this right? Give you your money back? Check. Correct the misleading product ad on the site? Check. Grind up all of the product and come and beg your forgiveness? Not likely.

An acknowledgement. Changing the pictures over and not mentioning anything is underhanded, it's an attempt to pretend that it didn't happen and sweep it all under the rug.

Thorgut wrote:Has it already been posted that GW updated the product page?
They've painted one of the "real" ones up rather than a resin copy:

The sad thing is that if that was what they had actually advertised in the first place, I think the majority of potential buyers would have been happy with it. It's not great, but it looks pretty reasonable for vacuum-moulded plastic.

It's the stark contrast between advertised image and actual product that has got people so riled.

Seriously. FW should cast them in resin, put them on sale for £20-30, and I'll buy two sets. I don't care if they cost more, I just want what was pictured. They look(ed) good.

oni wrote:I have a theory of what may have happened because the company I work for had what I'm about to explain happen to them.

GW out sourced the production to China. The original resin casts were sent to the proposed supplier for production demo's. Every company who out sources production requests demos of the product to be produced for quality control purposes. Now here is where it gets shady. The Chinese manufacturer sends GW the vac-u-formed demo, which is of top quality, and GW approves. The good demo is just so that the Chinese manufacturer can win the bid for production. Once the bid has been won and monies paid the Chinese manufacturer can essentially produce whatever the hell they want. The Chinese company will then ship the defunct product to GW's distribution centers. The workers at the distribution centers have no idea what it's supposed to look like so it gets boxed and shipped, quality control was done at HQ with the demo... GW HQ will not know they've been duped until it's to late, leaving GW and their customers victim.

Problems like this EXTREMELY common occurance, with everything from Milk to Cisco Firewalls.

GW is probably stuck with a couple metric tons of these sub-par plastic terrain pieces and is (unsuccessfully) trying to levy legal action against their manufacturer (who has by now, buggered off and moved the factory a province over under a different name).
And has taken the quickest and cheapest option to CTA, change the displayed product photos to match

This is more reasonable than the "intentionally misleading their customers" theory.

If your lucky, GW will replace the product with versions manufactured elsewhere, or they will continue with the "you should have read the fine print" statement.

If anyone's interested in seeing how GW sweeps things under the carpet and moves on like it never happened, click here.

I don't see why some other company couldn't make some terrain pieces with a general similarity to these, but better, and make them in resin.

Is there a special allure about 'official GW' bits of blown-up craters?

Thorgut wrote:Has it already been posted that GW updated the product page?
They've painted one of the "real" ones up rather than a resin copy:

Does anyone else think that the paint job on that (espically the blue middle) looks really really.... sloppy/rushed?

Like GW quickly painted one up to replace pictures that weren't representative of the actual product?

No. Don't know what you're talking about jp.

lol

I mean I cant paint worth beans and I can tell that they slopped alot of paint quickly on that POS. Just look at the friggin blue middle and the exhaust ports... its sucks.

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

oni wrote:I have a theory of what may have happened because the company I work for had what I'm about to explain happen to them.

GW out sourced the production to China. The original resin casts were sent to the proposed supplier for production demo's. Every company who out sources production requests demos of the product to be produced for quality control purposes. Now here is where it gets shady. The Chinese manufacturer sends GW the vac-u-formed demo, which is of top quality, and GW approves. The good demo is just so that the Chinese manufacturer can win the bid for production. Once the bid has been won and monies paid the Chinese manufacturer can essentially produce whatever the hell they want. The Chinese company will then ship the defunct product to GW's distribution centers. The workers at the distribution centers have no idea what it's supposed to look like so it gets boxed and shipped, quality control was done at HQ with the demo... GW HQ will not know they've been duped until it's to late, leaving GW and their customers victim.

Problems like this EXTREMELY common occurance, with everything from Milk to Cisco Firewalls.

GW is probably stuck with a couple metric tons of these sub-par plastic terrain pieces and is (unsuccessfully) trying to levy legal action against their manufacturer (who has by now, buggered off and moved the factory a province over under a different name).
And has taken the quickest and cheapest option to CTA, change the displayed product photos to match

This is more reasonable than the "intentionally misleading their customers" theory.

If your lucky, GW will replace the product with versions manufactured elsewhere, or they will continue with the "you should have read the fine print" statement.

And we should care because??? This is a multi-million dollar company that makes decisions that cost them next to nothing by outsourcing, sending money out of economies to help Asia industrialize WHY??? WHY should I give a feth? Are you going to argue that the workers in the factories need the jobs more than the people in your own countries? I think not...

We are talking about such insignificant amounts of losses I seriously hope they are much grander than I imagine so GW simply learns a lesson from this.

You pay 20$ U.S.... GW pays like .5$ U.S.... FORGET IT, GW loses this argument big time.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If anyone's interested in seeing how GW sweeps things under the carpet and moves on like it never happened, click here.

Sigh.

At least they put up actual images of the garbage.

Lagduf wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:If anyone's interested in seeing how GW sweeps things under the carpet and moves on like it never happened, click here.

Sigh.

At least they put up actual images of the garbage.

Wow.... they might as well have linked images from this thread...

This makes we want to scratch-build my entire Eldar force or simply build my army from other companies products.... SHAMEFUL!!!

Well just to throw this one out at you...

when you go to a fast food joint- the pictures of the food you can order seem vastly different from what you purchase.

Whats the difference between the two situations?


There isn't alot GW can do right now except what they have done- if your not happy- call cust. services or similar and get it sorted- if you are happy- then great your happy-
if your just moaning about "evil GW" and such because of this- well blah

Bignutter wrote:Well just to throw this one out at you...

when you go to a fast food joint- the pictures of the food you can order seem vastly different from what you purchase.

Whats the difference between the two situations?


There isn't alot GW can do right now except what they have done- if your not happy- call cust. services or similar and get it sorted- if you are happy- then great your happy-
if your just moaning about "evil GW" and such because of this- well blah

Yes... my sandwich from Mcdigernoonies looks better than this... I don't see your angle man.

If I order a CHICKEN sandwich, and they give me a POOP MCMUFFIN... WTF... Seriously.

"Note"
By your logic I should complain about food only when it lacks definition... interesting...

H.B.M.C. wrote:If anyone's interested in seeing how GW sweeps things under the carpet and moves on like it never happened, click here.

Games Workshop wrote:
Blastscape
The Blastscape set contains five vac-formed plastic craters.

Wow. Incredible.

Well I've complained. I encourage others to do so. This product sucks.

Look, guys... My guesses are that GW's as narked off as we all are. But hey - What can anyone do about it? It has happened, and there's no going backwards to "make things right". GW wouldn't want to intentionally spoil their reputation for producing quality products. It's sad. So, if you're writing drastically dramatic comments, just look at the whole picture for a moment.

Well, if you read some of the other comments you'll see that GW is the anti-christ and even liking them a tiny bit can be wrong.

BrookM wrote:Well, if you read some of the other comments you'll see that GW is the anti-christ and even liking them a tiny bit can be wrong.

Sorry BrookM, here is where you buy them... http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod20010a&rootCatGameStyle=

oh, btw WHO IS SHE? IS THAT YOU? SHE IZ HAWT!!!

Stop humping my leg you cretin!

Brook's a dude.

Anyway...I still think they're donkey-caves, but at least they're being honest now. God they look like crap though, that one they painted up clearly proves that not even a paintjob can really save them.

Honest?

Oh boy... I wouldn't say that exactly.

Stupid gag order...

Who knows, by December GW might issue a statement saying that they were sorry for deceiving us.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Honest?

Oh boy... I wouldn't say that exactly.

Stupid gag order...

Okay, so not as "honest" as I would have liked, but yeah. The point is they have the pictures of the real product up there now.

And god is it a piece of gak.

BrookM wrote:Who knows, by December GW might issue a statement saying that they were sorry for deceiving us.

I'll take bets then:

WD publishing an apology for lying about a crap product and then attempting to pretend it didn't happen ---vs--- Jervis publishing a 'letter' from a 'real person' that says how wonerful the hobby and themed gaming is.

Any takers?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:Who knows, by December GW might issue a statement saying that they were sorry for deceiving us.

I'll take bets then:

WD publishing an apology for lying about a crap product and then attempting to pretend it didn't happen ---vs--- Jervis publishing an 'letter' from a 'real person' that says how wonerful the hobby and themed gaming is.

Any takers?

Cripes I haven't thought of that one. I'm siding with the Jervis cop-out.

Bignutter wrote:Well just to throw this one out at you...

when you go to a fast food joint- the pictures of the food you can order seem vastly different from what you purchase.

Whats the difference between the two situations?


... ...

The difference between the situations is that it matters what a product is meant to do.

Fast food is meant to taste nice and not poison you. The looks are secondary.

Terrain is meant to look nice and support the weight of figures. Looks are primary.

Okay, a friend of mine in the UK stumbled upon some info on this whole ordeal when she decided to return her own blastscape due to damage and divergence from what was shown. The staff member was very apologetic and said that throughout the release weekend they had several dissatisfied customers demanding a refund because of either the shocking difference between what was shown and what they got or the quality and state of the items they got (torn, dented, depressed features etc.).

So many in fact that GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future" to avoid what has happened now. Furthermore it didn't mention anything about refunds or recalls or any of that.

yeah,
I think ultimately GW has corrected the issue.
The Web shows the actual product now and People who were mislead and unhappy with the product can get a refund. This was the least they can do.

I would have liked to have received a offical apology but I guess GW doesn't want to admit it when they Let their customers down..
They wasted my time with this, I've had to ring them up, send a email which they never replied to ( how rude!) So I rang them again. then I had to box up the product and queue up at the post office... I know that when most companies mess up and cause inconvenience they offer a freebie of some kind to make people feel better!?
'here's a £5 voucher / Would you like to change these for a BattleScape?'

It's Just a shame it happened in the first place. After all the hype about planet strike, I placed a large order and I waited with anticipation for the package to arrive... this excitement and hobby 'high' was ruined as soon as I opened the box and saw the horrible BlastScapes!

I know this isn't going to stop me collecting and painting GW figures and playing their games. But I Know I'd have more respect for them If they held their hands up and said 'We're sorry we tryied to sell you mutton dressed as lamb. we'll do our best to see that it doesn't happen again'.

Panic...

I agree Panic!, it would be nice and we would feel better about it if there had been some sort of acknowledgement. I don't for a second thing GW did this on purpose, but their responce once it happened stinks of desperation and a need to keep things quiet. I mean, as Brook just posted:

BrookM wrote:...GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future"

So the only real responce, aside from hastily changing the pictures in the hope no one would notice, was to tell their own staff what a great product it was.

Wonderfull...

Yeah, that memo pisses me off again. You can't just admit that it's a gak product? Really?

This just popped into my inbox:

Dear Mr Brookman

Many thanks for your email regarding concerns on the Blastscape.

Unfortunately the promotional pictures used in White Dwarf and on the Games Workshop website were the original resin prototypes and regrettably we did not paint the new set and therefore have shown incorrect pictures.

The Design Studio is painting a selection of the vac-formed production craters to be photographed and then replace the images shown on our website very soon. In addition, the product description of the Blastscape and Moonscape will be amended to clarify that these are vac-formed plastic craters.

We apologise unreservedly for the confusion caused by using these pictures and are working now to stop this type of mistake happening again.

If you are not entirely happy with this product you are more than welcome to a refund or exchange. If you wish to take this option please get in touch and we will provide you with the best option of returning this product.

Again, please accept our apologies for any confusion this may have caused.

Regards

Games Workshop Customer Services

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've got a feeling that if I were to request a refund it would cost me more than it's worth.

Ooh! An apology! At last!
Thank goodness for that!

Oh pleeese, GW knew that these would be rank. I think that if anybody buys them, they lose any right to pass comment on the quality of another company's models as they obviously have no concept of quality whatsoever

I've shot them an email with the suggestion to try and cheer me up, I'll see what they'll offer me.

Does anyone have this "memo" about how they are still supposed to gush over the craters, or is this urban legend, "I hate everything GW" territory? ;-)

Petitiononline.com anyone?
We the undersigned want evil Games Workshop to stop lying to us about mushy meteor craters and release resin casts....just a thought.

GW has no concept of quality whatsoever? Really? We are going to judge that based on an outsourced limited released splash item?

I was upset about the quality of the blastscape as well but come on.

Lets see, they are offering complete refunds, they changed the image on the web, and have even issued an apology... what more are we waiting for?

Here, here, Oxfordseth. This is getting out of proportion - People are just jumping onto the band-wagon. In fact, this whole thing's becoming quite depressing: "I was all hyped up about Planet Strike, but when my Blastscape arrived in the mail, my whole world fell apart... Etc." Come on! Look at the Bastions, the new tank kits, the upcoming Space Wolves... Do I need to say more?

I'm still waiting for my Bastions, Aegis, skyshield and tanks, so all I can do now is base the experience on the blastscape.

The bastions+aegis are pretty awesome. Skyshield is meh, but I mean what can you expect?

It's a landing pad.

BrookM wrote:This just popped into my inbox:

Dear Mr Brookman...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've got a feeling that if I were to request a refund it would cost me more than it's worth.

I note you are in france, which may be a bit different - although France is meant to have implemented the same EU directive as the UK has.

It shouldn't cost you anything (money wise). They should be paying the cost of return - hopefully when they say the best return option they mean they will work out how to ensure that.

As a side note, in the UK, if you bought over the internet then I'm fairly sure you fall under the distance selling rules, which provide for a unconditional 7 day return right (at least, it can go up to 3 months). No need to prove fault etc. Also in such a case you do not need to return the product, you just need to let them know where they can collect it from (needs to be reasonable - like at your house during the day). P.S. It's been a long time since I did law, so don't take that as definitive.

I am Dutch, NOT French.

Same difference.



Maybe the meteors are all "molten" from being in space?

In regards to returning it, either they'll tell me to send it to them or they could tell me to get a train ticket and go to Amsterdam again for another awkward session with the manager.

puree wrote:I note you are in france

If your monitor is turned sideways he is

TBD wrote:

puree wrote:I note you are in france

If your monitor is turned sideways he is

It's almost as bad as hearing American tourists say us Dutch speak German (Deutsch)

BrookM wrote:go to Amsterdam again for another awkward session with the manager.

Given what I've heard of Amsterdam you might not want to take this option.

On topic my Blastscape doesn't look as bad as the photos. Mind you, it still doesn't look anything like the original photos of the resin masters, but at least I have detail on the 2 stage rivets. So some are better than others.

How are we all supposed to be experts on Dutchland?

Wrexasaur wrote:

And we should care because??? This is a multi-million dollar company that makes decisions that cost them next to nothing by outsourcing, sending money out of economies to help Asia industrialize WHY??? WHY should I give a feth? Are you going to argue that the workers in the factories need the jobs more than the people in your own countries? I think not...

We are talking about such insignificant amounts of losses I seriously hope they are much grander than I imagine so GW simply learns a lesson from this.

You pay 20$ U.S.... GW pays like .5$ U.S.... FORGET IT, GW loses this argument big time.

It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say? I thought they would be made on the same equipment the moonscape terrain is made on, using different molds, either in England or Memphis, or both. There are laws about packaging that are more important than if the product matches the ads.

Either way, it's a limited release so this is probably the only batch they make up, since it's for Planetstrike and everyone seems to believe that Plantestrike has a shelf life of only a couple of years, so this debacle will be forgotten by the middle of next year at the longest. Everyone that won't have a go at cleaning up GW's mistakes and try to make their craters look nice will get a refund, GW will either trash them or recycle the plastic to make a boxed set of whatever and it will be over and the world will be safe.

They hastily scurried to change the pics on the web site to avoid a corporate level fine for false advertisement or whatever law they might have brokee. Their butt is covered now, everyone should have gotten a heads up by now and shenanigans have been declared. I'm going to have to say it's resolved for them, not necessarily for us. I feel for the people that ordered it sight unseen from third parties because they're going to have to pay for shipping to return them, especially if they don't live near a GW store, but there's not much that can be done about that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If anyone's interested in seeing how GW sweeps things under the carpet and moves on like it never happened, click here.

The moonscape craters look so much better and sharper, even though they're vacuum formed, too.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't see why some other company couldn't make some terrain pieces with a general similarity to these, but better, and make them in resin.

Is there a special allure about 'official GW' bits of blown-up craters?

Pegasus imports a set of craters that's about the same price as the moonscape craters that look good..considering they're craters. You can always take a Moonscape crater and gussy it up with chunks of debris or bits..Lava Rock inserted in the middle of a matching cavity, with gaps filled with spackle would look good, and you wouldn't have to paint the lava rock if you're careful.

Bits of IG/Ork, whatever race that's inexpensive and common would also work, painting them bloody and stuff..

From what I've seen of the Planetstrike Terrain, it's pretty awesome. I've put together a Bastion, as long as you build it square, it's nice. The Aegis line has a lot of neat details for a concrete fence. I've only seen the Beasts of War video about the Skyshield, but guys at the store like it.

GW knows we're a bunch of fanboys and we'll snatch up anything they maken no matter what. I mean, they jacked up the prices on most of their stuff by X%, there were complaints, but no one that has thousands of points worth of 40K stuff is going to drop out. They'll stop buying it from GW, but they won't quit en mass, just the normal dropoff. (A few people I play with still bought from GW because they had to have it right now, so they paid full price, plus sales tax, only to stick the box under their bed for months. They could have ordered it for 20% off and put it under their bed)

For example, people have complained and sarcastically joked about regular price hikes for the last 20 years, but they still play 40K, GW knows we'll bend over and take it because we're a captive audience. The only people that have quit were miffed about their armies getting nerfed by the current rules or Codex, but they come back when a new rulebook or a FAQ fixed it, because what else are they going to do with 3000 points of X? Make 25% back by selling it on ebay? Not after they painted all of that stuff.

Yes, there are other companies, there are other rules and miniatures, but we want to play with OUR 40K miniatures with 40K fluff, not mix and match odd looking miniatures into our army, so we bite the bullet and hope for a FAQ or another online merchant with deeper discounts. I just hope that all the tactics we learn will be useful in the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse or the military coups when the Alien Overlords reveal themselves.

Orkeosaurus wrote:How are we all supposed to be experts on Dutchland?

We're the laid back people who don't wear jackboots and don't shout every time we ask for the salt or pepper.

Let's hope the new terrain piece with the wrecked Rhino will not be the same quality (probably not).

That one is cast plastic, as with the temple of

You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Agamemnon2 wrote:You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Oh man, that is a scary thought indeed.

BrookM wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Oh man, that is a scary thought indeed.

Ain't it just? Makes sense from a cost perspective, though, as vacuforming is easier and cheaper to manufacture a limited run with, compared to regular plastic moulding, and can be automated much better than resin casting can.

I doubt they could make space corridors better than the space corridors from litko aerosystems...

BrookM wrote:I am Dutch, NOT French.

Sincerest apologies. I was rushing, and thought you were the same person who earlier said they were in contact with french direct sales, but on going back a few pages I can see it was some one else.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Oh man, that is a scary thought indeed.

Ain't it just? Makes sense from a cost perspective, though, as vacuforming is easier and cheaper to manufacture a limited run with, compared to regular plastic moulding, and can be automated much better than resin casting can.

All too true really, plus vac-formed parts weigh nothing and can be easily squashed into a box. I'll be quietly holding on to the thought of solid plastic tiles, quietly but these days I'm not too sure of what GW is up to.

Agamemnon2 wrote:You know, an idea just occurred to me. If the mystery limited edition product really is Space Hulk, the enigma of how plastic floor pieces would be cost-effective might have a simple though disheartening answer. They're vacuformed.

Hmmmmm, what's that big blue thing falling towards my head? Count me out for Vacu-Hulk.

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

BrookM wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:Who knows, by December GW might issue a statement saying that they were sorry for deceiving us.

I'll take bets then:

WD publishing an apology for lying about a crap product and then attempting to pretend it didn't happen ---vs--- Jervis publishing an 'letter' from a 'real person' that says how wonerful the hobby and themed gaming is.

Any takers?

Cripes I haven't thought of that one. I'm siding with the Jervis cop-out.

Why would a catalogue have an appolgy in it ?

BrookM wrote:

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

Woe be to the outsourcing GW... Woe be...

BrookM wrote:

insaniak wrote:

wittzo wrote:It is a THEORY that they outsourced them. What does the label on the package say?

"Made in China"

There we go, GW does most production in the UK.

Sure ?

Found the number of "made in china" plastic kits increasing lately......

The books and White Dwarf have been printed in China for some time now. Most of the hobby supplies come from china, as do any of the special 'collector's' bits and pieces (ammo crate, backpacks and such).

The newer bases (with the central injection dimple) are supposedly outsourced, so probably from China.

And there have been rumours that a lot of Forgeworld's production is actually done in China as well.

I would strongly suspect that anything other than standard run injection moulding would be done these days in China instead of the UK/US factories. Which admittedly would still qualify as 'most' of their production... but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see GW gradually move some of that over to China as well. Particularly for smaller-run kits where getting it done elsewhere might work out cheaper than producing their own mould.

Vacu-Hulk... that does not sound good. Explains the limited run thing though.

I would bet my bottom dollar that they wouldn't skimp on Space Hulk, with the amount of hype it would get it would HAVE to be top quality or their massive targets for it would cause them to lose crazy amounts of money.

GW generally learn from their mistakes, so I think they will learn from the blastscape and return to their usual high standards.

It only takes one bullet to kill a hero, it only takes one incident to tarnish a reputation, it only take one blsatscape to make people dislike GW.

Wrexasaur wrote:This makes we want to scratch-build my entire Eldar force or simply build my army from other companies products....

Better yet, make the strong statement and quit the GW hobby altogether?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:This makes we want to scratch-build my entire Eldar force or simply build my army from other companies products....

Better yet, make the strong statement and quit the GW hobby altogether?

How bout' we just never game, I think I could live with that.

Oshova wrote:It only takes one bullet to kill a hero, it only takes one incident to tarnish a reputation, it only take one blsatscape to make people dislike GW.

People dislike GW for a *lot* more reasons than one lousy, overpriced set of terrain.

I understand that, I'm just saying that it takes only a few negatives for people to have outweighed the many positives . . . if people took the time to actually weigh up the pros and cons then 99 times out of 100 people would realise that GW is a good company. Obviously some people have particularly bad experiences that put them off (hence the 1%)

Oshova wrote:I understand that, I'm just saying that it takes only a few negatives for people to have outweighed the many positives . . . if people took the time to actually weigh up the pros and cons then 99 times out of 100 people would realise that GW is a good company. Obviously some people have particularly bad experiences that put them off (hence the 1%)

You must be getting paid overtime to say this...

Let me elaborate further.

Wait... nah.

ROFL!

To be honest I enjoy a bit of debate, even at half 3 in the morning . . . I don't have to be like this, but I want to stand up for what I believe in =]

Oshova wrote:ROFL!

To be honest I enjoy a bit of debate, even at half 3 in the morning . . . I don't have to be like this, but I want to stand up for what I believe in =]

That is fine, but to be fair you do WORK for them right? I don't exactly have a job with anti-GW here, that is all I am saying.

I would just be surprised if you said any different on a public forum.

Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

You just compared Hitler to GW miniatures... because the comparison is so blindingly rational apparently.

I am not trying to say you think you will change sales in any drastic way, just that you are slightly biased.

Actually I compared Hitler to GW customers . . . but I was just trying to make a point about appeasement, and that's the only example I could think of =p

And I admit I am slightly biased, seeing as I spend all weekend trying to sell people GW products lol

I hear where you are coming from but compromise is pretty different than appeasement.

I am not trying to present a business plan here, just saying my two cents as you are.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW, but that in no way means that I have to go on forums and shout about how awesome GW is . . . ok it's not awesome it's just good =p

But although I say what I think, in no way do I think that by me telling this forum my views that it's going to affect sales. So me working for GW just means that am slightly more biased, and am more likely to side with them. But previous to me starting working for GW I had pretty much the same views, just didn't feel I had to shout about it as much, I honestly find it quite annoying when people whinge and whine about the same thing over and over again, and complain about the same problems with GW, when if it changed they would just find something else to complain about. Appeasement never solved anything, just look at WWII, no matter how much we tried to appease Hitler, he always wanted that bit more.

You just compared Hitler to GW miniatures... because the comparison is so blindingly rational apparently.

I am not trying to say you think you will change sales in any drastic way, just that you are slightly biased.

You are talking bollocks. I have read most of his posts - he has been very objective and reasoned in his posts - far more than the "my life is over coz of one crap model" brigade. He wasn't comparing GW mini's to Hitler - learn comprehension and basic reading skills - he is on about appeasement and how appeasement doesn't work, i.e how the English (Chamberlin) policy of appeasement failed Europe. The Hitler comment is a real life example of how appeasement fails - the comparator is appeasement not Hitler.

Sheesh, after 16 pages of I think this horse has seriously been flogged to death and gone away so far from the original intent of the thread and the points raised by HBMC et al in the beginning. Way too much hyperbole in this thread.

Yes the models are crap, yes the response was typical GW stupidity but one crap model does not signal the end of the hobby of ruin the fact that 90+% of GW stuff is so far ahead of their competitors it isn't even funny. Now, if only they could stop writing crap rules the world would be happy.

Games Workshop is a corporation, not a person. I can't think of anything unethical they do, besides maybe some of their shadier legal weight-throwing, so I don't have much of a reason to dislike them on that level.

I like their product; I'll buy it if I think it's worth the price. If I think it's not worth the price, I won't. In that sense, whether or not I "like GW" isn't really the issue, it's whether or not I like the product, and the support and service given to that product.

::EDIT:: Oops, I thought this was the "do you like GW" thread, not the malformed craters one. I'll repost it there.

@Wrexasaur

I'm just saying that in a situation like this compromise would end up leading to an appeasement-like situation.

@Fullheadofhair

Thanks for the support, it's nice to feel appreciated, but I believe that Wrexasaur just misunderstood my post.

And your point about rules, everything has to be a bit hit and miss =p The sheer fact that when 5ed was release an FAQ was released 2 days afterwards shows how under tested the rules were, and how more proof reading needed to be done. *sigh*

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW

Well that certainly explains a lot.

In my experience there are three types of GW employees:

1. Those that believe everything the company feeds them. These are also the types that will try to sell you a Baneblade or a Stompa when you've only come in for glue/something from a different game system. They consider themselves loyal employees. We consider them sycophants (or Warseer members...).
2. Those who don't like GW as a company, like the games, but work there 'cause it's easy and they get a good discount.
3. Clueless managers (these can fit into either category).

I'd like to think that you don't fall into the first category Oshava, but your stuff about 99 out of 100 people seeing GW as a 'good' company kind've stretches that hope thin.

=D Well I don't try to sell a Baneblade to people who only want glue, and I despise those darned Warseer members . . . But I do like the GW company, and I'm just a generally positive person, I like to see the positives in things . . . mainly for the fear that the negatives might consume my generally chirpy demeanor =p

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Oshova wrote:Yes I am a good ol' Blue-shirted employ of GW

Well that certainly explains a lot.

In my experience there are three types of GW employees:

1. Those that believe everything the company feeds them. These are also the types that will try to sell you a Baneblade or a Stompa when you've only come in for glue/something from a different game system. They consider themselves loyal employees. We consider them sycophants (or Warseer members...).
2. Those who don't like GW as a company, like the games, but work there 'cause it's easy and they get a good discount.
3. Clueless managers (these can fit into either category).

I'd like to think that you don't fall into the first category Oshava, but your stuff about 99 out of 100 people seeing GW as a 'good' company kind've stretches that hope thin.

or the rare 4th category: likes the game, likes the company but is willing to accept that it makes mistakes and discuss it in a sensible manner and is a fairly well rounded human being able to converse in a fair balanced manner.

Not starting a love fest, but we do have a habit of beating GW employees up here (hence the sharkpit rep) and fair play to him, if you read his posts he is say fair and reasoned things. Judge by the quality of his posts - better than 50% of the crap we wade through on this board at times.

PS, the memories of Paul Sawyer posting here still amuses me.

You make me smile =]

Makes a change from the GW suck statements I get, it's nice to see that there is some good in the world, and there are people I can have a good debate with =]

Huzzah, the internet maxim has proven true. The nazi analogy has appeared!

Now 16 pages of big fat hairy bollocks. This thread makes me cry. Or laugh maniacally.

Took a while to be honest. Usually Godwin's Law crops up far earlier in these things.

fullheadofhair wrote:Yes the models are crap, yes the response was typical GW stupidity but one crap model does not signal the end of the hobby of ruin the fact that 90+% of GW stuff is so far ahead of their competitors it isn't even funny. Now, if only they could stop writing crap rules the world would be happy.

(emphasis mine)

In a thread full of hilarious posts, this simple "fact" wins out as being the most disconnected from reality. The world is absolutely jam-packed with miniatures companies that can compete with GW across all of their product lines. Gamezone, Warlord, Victrix, Infinity, Perry Miniatures, Reaper, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Hell Dorado, Hasslefree, Micro Art Studio, Heresy, etc, etc. All of these companies exist within the same quality bracket with GW, ahead of them on some levels and behind them on others.

Just because GW makes the most fiddly multipart plastic kits doesn't make them the top dog in the wargames world. I for one would love it if they'd actually release simpler miniatures so building a spearman block didn't require a hundred tiny components.

Note from history: Appeasement did not fail Europe (despite Chamberlain dying thinking he had failed), had the UK and France gone to war with Germany in 1938/9 or earlier we would have lost, leaving Hitler unopposed in Western Europe and only Stalin as a major enemy.

Back to the OP, GW have corrected their images on the web site and have aplogised to some customers and given/offered refunds So a thumbs up there

The have told their staff to lie (or rather not a give their own opinion, which equates to the same thing) to customers and tell them its a "great product", which is patently bollocks. Big thumbs downs

EDIT: As I have now been informed that the memo did not instruct staff to tell customers that its a "great product" I rescind the above negative comment, leaving GW with a Thumbs up for correcting the web site, providing apologies and refunds.

Hello there,

We are sorry to hear that this has happened and as such we would like you tell us which store this was that you went to and we will be able to talk to them about this matter further and issue some further training to the staff.

With regard to your Blastscape, if you wish to exchange the items that are damaged them if you could please let us know if you want to take these to a different Games Workshop store, then we will be able to arrange for this to happen.

If this is not an option and it would be easier for you to send these back to us then you can do to the following freepost address along with the following information and we will be able to send out a replacement set free of charge:

Customer Service
Games Workshop
Freepost NW3673
Willow Road,
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

The information we would need is:

Your full name.
Your full Address.
The reason for returning the item.
What you wish us to do.
Your e-mail address.
Your daytime contact number.
Your Order number

We apologise again for the level of service and any inconvenience that you have be put through and look forward to hearing from you again soon.

Koppo wrote:
The have told their staff to lie (or rather not a give their own opinion, which equates to the same thing) to customers and tell them its a "great product", which is patently bollocks. Big thumbs downs

Well as someone who has said memo... thats a big fat lie

It explained that there was a number of complaints about the product and to deliver good customer service in such an instance. No bullcrap about lying about the product and saying its the best thing ever.
There have been people who have complained about it and had it sorted out for them- and there have been others who have looked at the actual product (not the pictures... the actual terrain pieces) and are happy with them and have purchased them. I'll admit personally I didn't like how they turned out- but who am I to argue if someone does or doesn't like them?

So basically I have worked this out the only parts we need from the blastscape is the laserburn and the meteor strike they are re releasing the crashed aquilla lander there is our space ship and we already have moonscape so make a laserburn and a crashed meteor field and we are good to go.

Bignutter wrote:No bullcrap about lying about the product and saying its the best thing ever.

Don't use hyperbole to prove a point that doesn't exist. Of couse the memo doesn't say 'lie to the customers'. The one Brook explained to me basically said what you said, but did state that it was still a great product and usual company BS.

BrookM wrote:
So many in fact that GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future" to avoid what has happened now. Furthermore it didn't mention anything about refunds or recalls or any of that.

IF GW have not instructed staff to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product" then I rescind my comment on them asking their staff to lie.

It's called standing behind the company and its products.

Koppo wrote:

BrookM wrote:
So many in fact that GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future" to avoid what has happened now. Furthermore it didn't mention anything about refunds or recalls or any of that.

IF GW have not instructed staff to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product" then I rescind my comment on them asking their staff to lie.

well the memo that was sent out to staff specifically mentioned refunds and giving good cust. service- and nothing about great productness- so yeah- I call shenigans on the lying

BrookM wrote:Okay, a friend of mine in the UK stumbled upon some info on this whole ordeal when she decided to return her own blastscape due to damage and divergence from what was shown. The staff member was very apologetic and said that throughout the release weekend they had several dissatisfied customers demanding a refund because of either the shocking difference between what was shown and what they got or the quality and state of the items they got (torn, dented, depressed features etc.).

So many in fact that GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future" to avoid what has happened now. Furthermore it didn't mention anything about refunds or recalls or any of that.

Has anyone seen this alleged memo?

Bignutter wrote:

Koppo wrote:

BrookM wrote:
So many in fact that GW issued a memo that despite the many complaints staff are instructed to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product but [GW] will endeavour to have pictures of production models on advertising in the future" to avoid what has happened now. Furthermore it didn't mention anything about refunds or recalls or any of that.

IF GW have not instructed staff to "describe the Blastscape as still a great product" then I rescind my comment on them asking their staff to lie.

well the memo that was sent out to staff specifically mentioned refunds and giving good cust. service- and nothing about great productness- so yeah- I call shenigans on the lying

In which case I rescind my comment on this

Before everyone goes crazy ape, let's remember that every forum member who went to GW and complained about their Blastscapes has been offered a refund, whatever country they are in.

In my experience, and from what other people have said, GW have always been good at customer service.

Imagine if this honest "real world" that Games Workshop should exist in did exist.....

Customer: Have you got any paints?
GW employee: Yes but you can buy them much cheaper online as Coat D'Arms ones. it's the same thing at half the price.

Scenario 2: I'm interested in buying a baneblade, have you got any in stock?
GW: Here's what you should do, look up Tamiya kits 1:35 scale and just get one that looks the same. Bound to be less than £65.

Scenario 3:
Customer walks to counter holding blastscape craters in hand....
GW employee: OMG, you do realise how there is a 17 page thread on Dakka dakka about how lame these are, now put them back where you got them from!

@G_Model101

Yes wouldn't that be nice, GW telling you to to other companies to buy things . . . they would make loads of money that way, and keep such a large amount of people coming into their stores . . . basically what you're saying is that GW need to be more honest about things . . . but really what you're saying is that if people want to buy from other places then shop around . . . but in my experience people are happy to buy from GW as they get good customer service aswell as the product they wanted.

Oshava helping out people who have turned their sarcasm detectors off.

Forums and sarcasm go so well together . . . oh no there we go again =p

Flashman wrote:Oshava helping out people who have turned their sarcasm detectors off.

Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

CT GAMER wrote:

Flashman wrote:Oshava helping out people who have turned their sarcasm detectors off.

Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

Like oxygen right? I'm assuming you are saying it's essential for life to exist.

True, but oxygen only fuels fire not flames

Do you see what I've done?!?!

I am greatly saddened that GW outsources production to China. I've always thought of GW as making the best miniatures on the market. Part of that thinking was assuming they were made in the UK or partially in the USA. This ideal of them being the "best" is now horribly tarnished. :(

The metal and polystyrene kits are made in the UK or USA.

It's this bunch of vac-form stuff that was done in China.

They are probably regretting it now.

Oh good. That makes me feel a little better.

Good customer service doesn't change the fact that the product was dire or any of the other issues that people have with GW. All it does is make people say "weren't they nice" when you have a problem. Perhaps if burglers and muggers were more polite we wouldn't have a problem, like in the DiscWorld novels?

Kilkrazy wrote:They are probably regretting it now.

That would be a strange case of affairs if GW were regretting it, or as has been suggested elsewhere suing the manufacturer, yet still selling them in their stores. GW is proud to sell this product alongside all its other products, otherwise it would recall them or at least take them off sale. GW don't deliberately sell shoddy products (in their own minds) these Blastscapes are the Mercedes of scenery.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:Yes the models are crap, yes the response was typical GW stupidity but one crap model does not signal the end of the hobby of ruin the fact that 90+% of GW stuff is so far ahead of their competitors it isn't even funny. Now, if only they could stop writing crap rules the world would be happy.

(emphasis mine)

In a thread full of hilarious posts, this simple "fact" wins out as being the most disconnected from reality. The world is absolutely jam-packed with miniatures companies that can compete with GW across all of their product lines. Gamezone, Warlord, Victrix, Infinity, Perry Miniatures, Reaper, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Hell Dorado, Hasslefree, Micro Art Studio, Heresy, etc, etc. All of these companies exist within the same quality bracket with GW, ahead of them on some levels and behind them on others.

Just because GW makes the most fiddly multipart plastic kits doesn't make them the top dog in the wargames world. I for one would love it if they'd actually release simpler miniatures so building a spearman block didn't require a hundred tiny components.

Sorry I disagree. I own huge numbers of Reaper models, few warlord, hasslefree, several Heresey and a few other obscure models.

Please, do not even count PP as on the same level as GW because that has got to be the most average & subpar range of models ever - and to even complain about fiddly GW minis and not even mention the sheer poor engineering behind PP models that require extensive pining, cleaning and green stuffing actually shows that yet again you are the one divorced from reality. I didn't even bother with the game because I was so peeved after putting 6 jacks together for a gaming store. Why don't you mention that? Same quality as GW? I am sorry, but I feel that comment invalidates you whole argument.

There are few GAMING companies out there that produce the large range of models to the consistant high quality that GW does. Reaper models are fun but not always the best quality and sometimes their casting sucks. Heresy - have you tried to put a netherlord together? Perry - I personally dislike their sculpting style, always have. Yes I have seen their new models and I just don't like them - something about their real life proportions that is out. I think they cannot sculpt horses either. I happen to think that Wyrd models suck but I do enjoy painting Hasslefree ones.

The point I was making, was in general GW stuff tends to be better in my opinion. Smaller companies produce some awesome minis that are works of art that far exceed the quality that GW will ever put out. ebob with his horses spring to mind, as does the new'ish company from Canada that I bought a treewoman from. They don't have the depth and consistany that GW does. Of-course if Rackham was still producing minis before their move to prepainted crap I would have been extolling their virtues instead.

I'm not mad at GW for 'screwing me over', the returned blastscape will defer the costs of my new Hellhound nicely. I'm mad at GW for not providing the product in the book. I'm with HBMC on this one. Sell the resin masters through FW, I'll pay twice the price for them.

I don't think I've EVER returned anything in my life (Even really lame Christmas gifts). I just don't believe in it. But when my local red shirt handed me my preorder box I immediately fished out the blastscape and handed it right back to him. And you know what? I died a little inside.

The Ork Barricades are made in China, too, and they're extremely good -- almost as detailed as GW figures.

Some people will be satisfied with this product, others will not.

The end all, be all of this is that GW is giving you your money back if you want it back.

GW won't admit error, we know that; but the fact that they're willing to eat the cost of the error speaks volumes.

I've sent Yan an e-mail thanking him for helping out and being a good help. I'm calling my case resolved.

Paul Sawyer used to post on this forum? Someone care to extrapolate on that?

fullheadofhair wrote:Please, do not even count PP as on the same level as GW because that has got to be the most average & subpar range of models ever - and to even complain about fiddly GW minis and not even mention the sheer poor engineering behind PP models that require extensive pining, cleaning and green stuffing actually shows that yet again you are the one divorced from reality. I didn't even bother with the game because I was so peeved after putting 6 jacks together for a gaming store. Why don't you mention that? Same quality as GW? I am sorry, but I feel that comment invalidates you whole argument.

I didn't mention the horrible difficulties I had with assembling my warjacks because they didn't exist. I've built a Mariner, a Nomad and a Buccaneer, all of which have gone together extremely well using strategically placed pins and three-minute epoxy. I'd much rather build Warjacks than an Empire spearman block anyday. Especially since Warjacks are important units that actually affect the course of the game, whereas Spearmen are low-quality dross whose purpose in an Empire army seems to be to die in droves. I need only 2-4 jacks per army, too, as opposed to 50+ fiddly State Troops.

PP metal casting quality, too, is better than GW's. Having recently put together some new-style Ratlings and a Primaris Psyker, I've had to spend ages cleaning and filling in mould lines. Whereas Broadsides Bart was the second best sculpted and cast metal model I've ever painted (the number one place goes to Rackham's old Cadwê Undertaker, a gorgeous model with almost zero cleanup required). You are right, at least, in that Rackham was very very good at what they did, before they threw it all away.

GW's depth and consistency are no kind of boons to me, I'm afraid. Every army is so codified that uniqueness and whimsy have to be forcibly inserted into units. Plastic Cadians, for example, might be technically impressive, but an entire army made with them is boring to look at and even more boring to build. 1980s Dwarves, too, had much more variation and expressions than their current brethren, and not only because GW has a strange habit of increasing dwarf beard length over the years.

It's been a while but all of my (very few) PP models have gone together very well also. And I do agree, GW's metals lately have been a mess. You have to clean up so many of those little stringy bitz and still end up missing a couple that got curled up and don't catch it till you've already started painting. My razordons and kroxigors were pretty bad and looking at the blisters for the new IG stuff I picked up it looks like more of the same. Dunno what happened, the metals used to be almost flawless. Guess they outsource that to the chinese kiddy labor folks too

AlexCage wrote:I don't think I've EVER returned anything in my life (Even really lame Christmas gifts).

Yeah... you're right. The only thing that springs to mind besides this is when I returned the a PC game called Gun and swapped it for the Diablo II expansion. This is the only other time. I'm surprised.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

PP metal casting quality, too, is better than GW's. Having recently put together some new-style Ratlings and a Primaris Psyker, I've had to spend ages cleaning and filling in mould lines.

GW's depth and consistency are no kind of boons to me, I'm afraid. Every army is so codified that uniqueness and whimsy have to be forcibly inserted into units. Plastic Cadians, for example, might be technically impressive, but an entire army made with them is boring to look at and even more boring to build. 1980s Dwarves, too, had much more variation and expressions than their current brethren, and not only because GW has a strange habit of increasing dwarf beard length over the years.

Selective extract of your post by me. Necros also made the same point. To be honest, when I think about it - other than $200 worth of Warhammer scenery and a few units to top of my OK army I haven't purchased any new metals in at least 6 months. Two of saying the same thing is enough for me to reconsider comments ref casting quality.

The point about Cadians is also accepted - although that is the problem with any massed rank army type - Napoleanics suffer from this for me. 1980's and even early 1990's models had far more character troop wise (don't agree character wise) but sufferred from looking a little bit ridiculous and cartoony.

Of-course I agree with Rackham throwing it all away. Was moving seriously into it as a game - loved C3 and have easily more than $1500 worth of devourers alone - strange that I have not a single prepaint. stupid Rackham.

I recently put together around 4 boxes (including 4 seperate blisters) of metal minis. Overall the quality was decent, but I still had to spend around 2 days to clean everything up, mainly because of my fire dragons. The fire dragons were so much messier than the rest I had to wonder for a minute if I had a bad batch.

My friend plays SM, and he was working on a librarian a while back. After looking at the quality of my pewter, he actually looked a bit angry. Apparently he had serious problems getting the model clean and glued. I have no problem with prep work, but I have to paint this stuff as well; this is the main reason I will never ever buy from forge world, the prep work sounds like I might as well sculpt the thing myself.

Overall the pewter from GW seems decent but there also seems to be very little quality control. When I look at the Blast-scapes things make sense.

For those that think China have a part in the mess up ( seriously guys , its not rocket scientist to produce the crater )

Here is a more realistic scenario:

GW: I want these done cheap , like this (points to white master model)
China : Sure ok no problem , they'll cost 50 cent.
GW: Cant you give us a better deal?
China: K , tell you what i'll modify it alittle to make it easier to mass produce , you wouldnt know the difference
GW: How much will it be?
China: 10 cents.
GW: OK!!!!!

1 Months later:
GW customer: ****!!!!!

Actually dear, the price per part goes down if the total order amount goes up. But this has already been resolved quite cordially (if a bit underhanded and two-faced by GW) through the medium of electronic mail, visits to the store and the sacrifice of virgins to Baz'Tard.

What are the prices of vacuum forming? Would I need to order 2 million to get a good price?

I took a look at the crashed ship at my LGS and it was made to the same if not worse quality then you showed us. The rocks look like mud slides or something.

LunaHound wrote:For those that think China have a part in the mess up ( seriously guys , its not rocket scientist to produce the crater )

Here is a more realistic scenario:

Really no. A more likely scenario is:

GW: We want this!
China: It costs this much.
GW: Ok!
China: Now we make it for half that cost, and pocket the rest of the money. Then we simply change the name or our company and/or move locations before anyone can question us.
GW: Uhh... what?
China: Nothing. We make product for you now.

(/Racial Stereotype Theatre)

H.B.M.C. wrote:

LunaHound wrote:For those that think China have a part in the mess up ( seriously guys , its not rocket scientist to produce the crater )

Here is a more realistic scenario:

Really no. A more likely scenario is:

GW: We want this!
China: It costs this much.
GW: Ok!
China: Now we make it for half that cost, and pocket the rest of the money. Then we simply change the name or our company and/or move locations before anyone can question us.
GW: Uhh... what?
China: Nothing. We make product for you now.

(/Racial Stereotype Theatre)

You-shouldn't-laugh-at-this-funny, but all too true.

HBMC that's genius =p
Why is it that racial stereotyping is so wrong, and yet so funny? lol

Because it reinforces your (false) notion that GW aren't responsible for the quality of the products they sell?

Responsible for the quality, yes. Doesn't mean that the lack of quality is always going to be their fault.

The do have it in their power to stop things from hitting the shelves.

Or they didn't thoroughly check them... same thing really.

I can't imagine not seeing this problem weeks before sale.

Maybe the higher ups just went "feth it" and gave it a green light regardless.

Lordy be, tell me aint so, I couldn't handle such frightful news.

I do declare good lordy be.

Ugh, another one of them religious types. Now calm down miss' Daisy and have a cuppa tea.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Responsible for the quality, yes. Doesn't mean that the lack of quality is always going to be their fault.

If GW felt that they had been let down by the manufacturer then they would not have released (or recalled) the product, this has not happened. So yes the lack of quality is always their fault (in a very real and legally binding way).

GW chose to put (and keep) the product on their shelves, how can that not be their fault?

George Spiggott wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Responsible for the quality, yes. Doesn't mean that the lack of quality is always going to be their fault.

If GW felt that they had been let down by the manufacturer then they would not have released (or recalled) the product, this has not happened. So yes the lack of quality is always their fault (in a very real and legally binding way).

GW chose to put (and keep) the product on their shelves, how can that not be their fault?

But the molds fell from the tall tower and that's why they were damaged!!

George Spiggott wrote:GW chose to put (and keep) the product on their shelves, how can that not be their fault?

Whilst that is true it doesn't change the fact that the lack of quality within the product (probably) wasn't their fault. Yes, their actions after the fact were hamfisted and underhanded - underhamhanded, perhaps - but the initial issue, assuming that it was more likely the fault of the Chinese manufacturer than GW, is not something we can specifically blame GW for. Everything after that point, yes, you're right, they should have taken responsibility. Instead we get nothing aside from fine-print shoved in our faces and a hasty cover-up with replaced pictures, and then a 'Corporation Speak' memo telling staff that the Blastscape is still a great product.

LunaHound wrote:Here is a more realistic scenario:

GW: I want these done cheap , like this (points to white master model)
China : Sure ok no problem , they'll cost 50 cent.
GW: Cant you give us a better deal?
China: K , tell you what i'll modify it alittle to make it easier to mass produce , you wouldnt know the difference
GW: How much will it be?
China: 10 cents.
GW: OK!!!!!

Any modification wouldn't have been to make it easier to mass produce. It would have been simply to meet the requirements of vacuum moulding... And GW would have been asking specifically for vacuum moulding, since they don't do that themselves.

Are you saying that GW wouldn't have known they were going to be vacu-formed, or that they wouldn't've cared?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Whilst that is true it doesn't change the fact that the lack of quality within the product (probably) wasn't their fault.

What lack of quality? There is none, ask anyone who works for GW. You're just a GW hater H.B.M.C.

Ah! The truth comes out! You... you... casual gamer!!

George Spiggott wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Whilst that is true it doesn't change the fact that the lack of quality within the product (probably) wasn't their fault.

What lack of quality? There is none, ask anyone who works for GW. You're just a GW hater H.B.M.C.

There is a reason we never ask a sock puppet for anything informative and unbiased.

I'm just shocked, for all the complaints about GW over the years, I've almost never complained about their quality. I even recently lauded them in a review of some FRP products when compared to the Moonscape.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Review:_FRP_Games_28mm_Future_Zone_Terrain

Hello Dakkadakka!

I live in the Seattle area and went up to the Seattle BattleBunker to not only check out the new renovations but also take a closer look at the Blastscape. When I first eye'ed these cool looking pictures I knew I wanted a set and it was more of a question if I wanted 2 and not just 1. After seeing the pictures posted here I delayed my trek in to the store to pick them up. Luckly the "White Shirt" was present at the store so I was able to directly give my feedback to someone who might be able to carry that information up the chain of command.

The first thing I noticed was how the Blastscape was packaged, even the picture on the back showed the Master models and not the lower detailed parts in the bag. I pointed out how even the package was very misleading to their clients. He nodded and smiled and knew already what I was about to say, not wanting to truly rant to him I asked that he relay my displeasure with this current release and misleading ad's up through his chain of command and include the loss of sales that this directly effected.

Like many before me in the thread I suggest that you politly express your displeasure with GW via feedback not only to a manager but also via writen form. Remember its not the manager or employee's fault, so be nice about it .

With some luck GW will not use this vender again, and maybe even re-release these items more in line with their pictured ads.

Thank you,
Blasto

I have finished my project and started a new thread for those that are interested.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249508.page

Thanks!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Are you saying that GW wouldn't have known they were going to be vacu-formed, or that they wouldn't've cared?

No, I'm saying that GW knew they would be vacuum moulded, and that the loss of detail was a side-effect of that (possible badly done) vacuum moulding, not a deliberate change to reduce casting costs.

Or, in other words, that the standard 'bait with a nice prototype before making incredibly dodgy production versions' that has caught out other companies looking into cheap Chinese production in the past is a far more likely scenario than the one suggested by Luna.

DrunkenSamurai wrote:I have finished my project and started a new thread for those that are interested.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249508.page

Thanks!

Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Weird, I thought I was banned for a month. Turns out it was 3 days and I just couldn't view the PM through the banning .

I figure I might as well toss my hat in. I really don't think its right to place the blame on the manufacturers of this product. Games workshop quality control should have been present when the initial prototype molds were cast, they should have been present when the boxes of poor quality started piling up, and they should have been present when it all went to packaging. Its further compounded by the fact that the incorrect product (Not just misleading but incorrect as it was not in fact modified, rather it wasn't even the product being sold or packaged) was used in all forms of advertisement.

GW really went out of its way to make a cheap buck here, this is pretty unforgivable for a company that is supposed to pride itself on its plastic moulding quality and technology. Maybe they had Robin Cruddace Mold it.

In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

Xyxox wrote:Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Meh. The details are still amazingly soft as Panic has pointed out with different pics.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

I agree with John here I just cant imagine the situation being as simple as GW tried but to no avail, either way it reflects poorly on GW. I don't know the manufacturers name, nor do I think it matters really. I also have a hard time believing that the Chinese government would look kindly upon manufacturers that put a tarnish on their reputation, it just doesn't add up.

Breotan wrote:

Xyxox wrote:Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Meh. The details are still amazingly soft as Panic has pointed out with different pics.

Yes, but it's only $5 per piece, so you're getting what you pay for and it's now shown a decent enough paint job makes up for the lack of detail.

...wow, seriously? How much are the craters they advertised worth then? If the gakky vac-formed ones we got are worth $5 a piece then the resin masters must be worth $20 each.

That's a lot of money to ask for a fething crater.

Anyway, I dunno, I think the ones shown in the pictures would have almost been worth $20. There's no way the ones they released even come close, I don't care how much table space they cover up, they're flimsy as hell and look like garbage. I'm sorry, even the ones that were painted up look bad, you did a good job and all but you're still painting a turd.

insaniak wrote:Or, in other words, that the standard 'bait with a nice prototype before making incredibly dodgy production versions' that has caught out other companies looking into cheap Chinese production in the past is a far more likely scenario than the one suggested by Luna.

Oh, ok. Well in that case, yes, I agree with you.

Though as Shummy said (HI SHUMMY! I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!!!), I can't imagine that GW shipped them sight-unseen to the shops. They had to've seen that they weren't like the originals, but still went ahead and sold them anyway.

Butthurt Thread no.1
Its simple.
1. Buy Product from GW
2. Product from GW differs from advertised product.
3. Return product to GW, recive reimbursement.
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!!


Why does it have to turn into some BASH GW feast?
Every new post with whining included adds a big throbbing vein in my forehead.

Then don't read the thread.

Bla_Ze, your post is a violation of Rule #1 (click the link in my sig if you're curious), which is Be Polite.

Please keep it civil in the future.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

This is so true. When I worked in China this was often the case. If you got a lower price from the Chinese, you get a part that was equally diminished in quality. The company I worked for had several others and I there exclusively to make sure this happened as little as possible. GW I doubt has even sent a production manager or engineer to check on how those things go.

In the end GW is responsible for the product. They will take the blame for selling crappy stuff.

I Shuma.

...cheese, heart, same thing.

Why does it have to turn into some BASH GW feast?

I take it you haven't read the rest of the thread then, otherwise you'd understand perfectly why some people might be a tad miffed at pre-ordering a product and then receiving what almost looks like an entirely different product altogether.

Sure, everyone that's gotten a refund now should be happy and there's no reason to keep lambasting them after they've apparently tried to correct the mistake, but that's the internet, get used to it. Except for HBMC in my opinion, I'd hate it too if some staff member got an attitude with me and tried to shove a stupid disclaimer in my face like that. If you're going to pull that kinda crap then technically you could get away with anything!

"Got bloodletters in your box of tactical Marines? *shoves a White Dwarf in your face* MODELS MAY DIFFER FROM THOSE SHOWN, donkey-cave!"

Sidstyler wrote:...wow, seriously? How much are the craters they advertised worth then? If the gakky vac-formed ones we got are worth $5 a piece then the resin masters must be worth $20 each.

That's a lot of money to ask for a fething crater.

Anyway, I dunno, I think the ones shown in the pictures would have almost been worth $20. There's no way the ones they released even come close, I don't care how much table space they cover up, they're flimsy as hell and look like garbage. I'm sorry, even the ones that were painted up look bad, you did a good job and all but you're still painting a turd.

Don't like'm, don't buy'em. Seems simple to me. But while you have be whining I have created (what I think to be) some nice terrain pieces.

Hey, how I choose to spend my time is my business!

That said, I'd be making good terrain, too, if I was allowed to run a jigsaw at midnight without someone calling the cops.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Though as Shummy said (HI SHUMMY! I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!!!), I can't imagine that GW shipped them sight-unseen to the shops. They had to've seen that they weren't like the originals, but still went ahead and sold them anyway.

Yup... at least when this happened to Mongoose, they put out a statement mentioning that the production models they had seen just before release had turned out to be not up to the standard of the prototypes. Of course, they still tried to talk them up, but they were committed to releasing by that point as they had put so much cash into it. Or so the story goes.

Somebody at GW has seen these and approved them. Not mentioning that the final product in fact was a far lower quality than the images shown to advertise them is dodgy at best.

It's interesting that all the defenders of GW on this post appear to be taking great offense at the people critising GW's latest release, throwing comments out like "don't but it if you don't like it". This is a valid point, but I don't really think you can apply it to this debate, if it was on pricing then fair enough.

My point is this, the pictures of this product reveal that the finished item is sub-standard. I'm hoping that both GW haters & lovers can agree on this. If not I think you need your eyes tested to be honest. Now the GW fans point out that FW will give you a full refund if not happy with the product, which is fair enough. However the point is, they shouldn't of released them fullstop. Someone either saw a finished production example and was duped, the actual production run was worse, or they knew this was what is was going to look like and ok'd it straight from the start. Either way it was out of order.

To compound it they throw in the old disclaimer statement, and if I understand this correctly, use the "master" images on the packaging. Then to finish it all off, they charge a silly price for something that is sub standard and would of cost pittance to make.

The feeling you get is GW was trying it on from the start. As I've mentioned before, just because GW gives you a refund it doesn't mean that they weren't cynically exploiting you in the first place.

Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

Vac form is used for a lot of items which need to be cheap and light but don't require sharp detail. The blister cards pills are packed in are an obvious example.

It's also used for low volume production runs of models and parts for models. Typically, unusual historical aircraft may be issued as vac-form kits, or items such as variant cockpit canopies. I know this kind of kit holds some detail, like panel lines.

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

He is just angry you are badmouthing GW, because they are infallible in all forms, and don't deserve this kind of treatment... from their customers who buy their products and expect more from them... just a thought really.

"Note"
This guy did just pop up when the "debacle" got heated (10 posts, do note that), and seems to take it personally when you say the terrain is still bad no matter how well you paint it.

HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PAINTING. Do you work for GW? Heh...

So, my mail order finally arrived, and I decided to take it back to my local GW store.

After the experience, I wonder if this might not be one of the best sales campaigns ever.

I never shop at my local GW store; I go to an independent instead. But, because this was a GW part and I wanted to return it, I called the GW store and the manager said to bring it in and he would take care of it without any problems (which turned out to be true).

When I arrived, the manager greeted me quickly, took the product, apologized (for my dissatisfaction, not the model - which was fine), said he was happy to give me a full refund right now, but if I wanted to shop around, he'd hold the item and process the refund when I checked out. At that point the instant gratification gene kicked in, and I started wandering around the store.

I left with some terrain and a few blisters for WHFB. After the exchange, the GW store netted about $60.00 from me. I left happy because they had handled the return so quickly and friendly, and spent more money (and time) in that store than I have in the last two months.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

He is just angry you are badmouthing GW, because they are infallible in all forms, and don't deserve this kind of treatment... from their customers who buy their products and expect more from them... just a thought really.

"Note"
This guy did just pop up when the "debacle" got heated (10 posts, do note that), and seems to take it personally when you say the terrain is still bad no matter how well you paint it.

HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PAINTING. Do you work for GW? Heh...

Whoa, wait...are yout talking about me?

Yes. He is.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes. He is.

Thanks! I just wanted to make sure I was following along correctly.

@Wrexasaur - No I am not mad. No I am not a 'fanboy'. Yes, GW can do wrong and does with frightening regularity. No, I do not work for GW (not that there is anything wrong with that). I am sorry that I have not taken the proper tone on this thread. I am sorry that I am new to the forums. I thought this was a place that gamers of different perspectives could share ideas and opinions. I did not realize this was a GW haters forum. Let my try and get this right.

"D#^$%! Those GW b**^&(%ds have totally f&#%d me for the last time! I swear if I ever meet the fools who dumped this load of crap on me I will really give him a trashing (verbal, no violence)! I can't believe I wasted $20 and free shipping on this pile of crap! Then they tricked me into painting these turds so I can't even get my money back! I am going to take all this GW crap and dump it in the trash. And I am going to dump all the other crap that is inspired by GW or reminds me of GW in the trash! No more of this for me! I am going to take up scrapbooking! You never see those scrapbook companies f*&^%g people over like this! I won't get fooled again! No sir!"

I really feel better now. I guess I was really mad like everyone else and I was just rationalizing this. I just did not want to admit I had been taken and I just wanted other people to get tricked too. I just don't want to be the only one who got fooled. I am sorry.

DrunkenSamurai wrote:I did not realize this was a GW haters forum.

It's not a GW haters forum. It's not a GW lovers forum either. We would like (hope?) that it's more of a GW realist forum, with all the hatred and gushing kept to a minimum. In this particular instance, the reality of the situation is that someone - be it GW or the production place in China - messed up, GW took various steps to not deal with the problem, and it has left a lot of people angry at them. I think someone said it a page or two ago, if they'd shown pictures of the actual items no one would really be complaining because complaining about getting what you paid for isn't realistic. Complaining when you get something vastly inferior to what you paid for, combined with store managers giving you the 'not our problem' speil, doesn't leave anyone happy.

You don't have to be a 'hater' to see that.

DrunkenSamurai,

Did you get possessed by some of our more prolific posters here? I hate when that happens.

Don't worry about your tone. I like the postitive and constructive steps you took with this situation.

Really, there are a bunch of catty old quilting ladies on this forum who like cackling like hens whenever they perceive a slight on GW's part. Which is everytime GW does or does not do something. They're like the nega-Warseer.

That being said, I'd rather be here than there. GW does often make huge missteps. I dislike Privateer Press's product, but if we could only put Matt Wilson in charge of GW's business practices... You know, that crazy openness with the customer base, the frequent FAQs and hobby content in their magazine...

Valhallan42nd wrote:...they perceive a slight on GW's part.

Are you calling the blast scape debarcle a 'perceived slight' are you?

Wrexasaur wrote:Do you work for GW? Heh...

Oh don't do that, people do that to me on the rare occasion that I have something nice to say.

But yeah, I wasn't trying to criticize anyone's painting, no matter how stellar the paintjob is they just won't look good to me. It works though, I won't turn my nose up at it and refuse to play a game with them on the table (it beats the gak out of felt...felt isn't terrain), but I still don't think they're worth the money.

Yes, GW can do wrong and does with frightening regularity.

I like that, "frightening regularity".

No, I do not work for GW (not that there is anything wrong with that).

I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, though I do feel for them in a way since it sounds like a really crappy job.

I thought this was a place that gamers of different perspectives could share ideas and opinions. I did not realize this was a GW haters forum.

I don't think there is such a thing as a GW haters forum. Most of us that bitch only do it because we care. Or maybe that's just me, I dunno, but still!

Complaining when you get something vastly inferior to what you paid for, combined with store managers giving you the 'not our problem' speil, doesn't leave anyone happy.

Exactly, and in my opinion at least this is a serious issue that could hurt GW if they don't deal with it properly and avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Hence, I bitch!

Even though it's been established that bitching on a forum doesn't accomplish much and it would be better to bitch at GW directly, but I'm under the assumption that GW isn't completely ignorant and sees these forums from time to time anyway. Some of the designers have been proven to have accounts on Warseer and I think even on Dakka, but I haven't been a Dakka member for too long so...

I am sorry that you think we are all saying this...

DrunkenSamurai wrote:"D#^$%! Those GW b**^&(%ds have totally f&#%d me for the last time! I swear if I ever meet the fools who dumped this load of crap on me I will really give him a trashing (verbal, no violence)! I can't believe I wasted $20 and free shipping on this pile of crap! Then they tricked me into painting these turds so I can't even get my money back! I am going to take all this GW crap and dump it in the trash. And I am going to dump all the other crap that is inspired by GW or reminds me of GW in the trash! No more of this for me! I am going to take up scrapbooking! You never see those scrapbook companies f*&^%g people over like this! I won't get fooled again! No sir!"

\

Way to stereotype me into a unrealistic role, not to mention plenty of other GW customers that have been angered by this. Just toss it to the side and pretend I am being irate and harassing you directly through harsh wording and general unhappiness causiness.

Truly... wait forget this, blablablablablabla.

Ok, so I have not even said a word in your thread and you still feel the need to attack me personally like I have done something wrong under a guise of nonsense. I never said Oshava was wrong for working with GW, just that he was not in a GW store and he should damn well act like it. (Edit: harsh and probably unnecessary but I stand by my intention.)

No more of this flaming, lets be rational or just stay out of this entirely.

Edit:
Please just P.M. me if you really feel the need to take this any further. You can vent all you want into my message box.

It's called sarcasm. Lighten up. I was wasn't attacking you anymore than I felt personally attacked.

I was just trying to fit in

@Wrexasaur - the only part of my post that was directed at you was the paragraph that started with @Wrexasaur. The following paras were an attempt at humor...which some people recognised.

My apologies, I appear to have spoken a bit harshly then. To be fair the @Wrexasaur paragraph does seem to include the following paragraphs.

I have nothing against you just to be clear, I hardly know you and I may take things out of context from time to time.

I do commend your effort, and I meant no ill-will to you by any of my statements.

Now for the funny bunny dance!

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's not a GW haters forum. It's not a GW lovers forum either. We would like (hope?) that it's more of a GW realist forum, with all the hatred and gushing kept to a minimum.

Mind you, what we'd like and what is have no correlation with each other.

That is a good point.

It's time to put this thread out of its misery.